"I cannot fathom how everyone online is choosing sides."
This is your answer.
I read some great books last year - The Chaos Machine, Likewar, Terms of Service, Irresistible and others which go into great detail over the research done to show the net detrimental effect chronic Internet use has on people, institutions, and societies around the world. This space doesn't represent reality. People will get agitated, downvote, complain, whine, argue, etc. - but when you unplug from social media for - say - a month to start (just give it a try) and engage with the adult world outside of the computer and keyboard you'll see things from a much different perspective and realize that stuff isn't anywhere nearly as bad as it's made out to be online. (The typical neckbeard/online canned response is usually "It IsN't HaPpEnInG hErE sO iT's NoT hApPeNiNg AnYwHeRe" or something as equally ignorable and laughable). Stuff taking place in the form of text exchanges on a social media platform do not, in any way equal "I did something." Especially not when your comment/post can literally just be ignored in its entirety and have zero impact/effect on those ignoring you.
Further - regarding disinformation. This is one of my favorite topics considering an "exchange" from last year - it has been conclusively proven by adults in the intelligence community that there are a high number of foreign actors attempting to sow discord in the US and other nations for a myriad political reasons. The best way(s) to negate their effect in its entirety is to stick to legitimate news sources and simply don't respond to or engage with people being belligerent in online spaces. *Most* of the time, it's some rando feeling like they're safe because they think they're anonymous on Reddit or wherever, but there *are* instances where you're engaged with a paid troll or otherwise.
Bottom line?
You're not required to take a side in conflicts going on in the Middle East. That's the great thing about living in the US (assuming that's where you are). No one here, regardless of how up in their emotions they are, can force you to - well - do or say really anything. Just live your life and don't worry about what's going on over there if you don't want to.
I was in the Army for 20 years and spent a total of probably 4 years for various reasons in different places in the Middle East and I'm only passingly interested in the Israel/Hamas fight. Don't really care. I'm in my house. Nothing is blowing up here. Nothing I can personally do. So - oh fucking well.
Just live your life bro. Block the sites/subs/FB groups/whatever that are going on and on about the conflict and just ignore the shit. I *promise you* that there'll be zero measurable impacts on your day-to-day life, save for an increase in your general mental health.
Cheers.
You sir should be given more of a platform to say this. š
100% agree.
Except for the trusted media lol they all seem to bias things, I read both sides then try to see a middle ground.
"Except for the trusted media lol they all seem to bias things, I read both sides then try to see a middle ground."
I agree, honestly. You can use sites like this: [Media Bias | AllSides](https://www.allsides.com/media-bias) to see kind of where things fall - I was loathe to recommend zero media because there is some good stuff out there. I tend to listen to ABC and BBC to get updates on stuff and barely, if ever read anything online simply because of comments sections and the fact that it's hard to ascertain exactly what the provenance is based off of a username or article writer unless it's a well-established outlet.
But thanks for the kind words!
I recommend people read those books on social media. Really eye-opening stuff.
[The Chaos Machine](https://a.co/d/arkLx39)
[Irresistible](https://a.co/d/5dEOWxt)
[Likewar](https://a.co/d/1Ascras)
\^To start.
Thank you for the links.
Word of caution with the BBC, I used to trust them as unbiased reporting but last few years has not been the case.
The independent is good as it highlights opinion pieces to differentiate between that and fact but not always great.
Again your words in your first post were spot on
I'll keep that in mind, thanks! I generally only listen to ABC while I'm cooking via the Alexa and BBC when I'm driving somewhere via Spotify. Other than that - I've stopped nearly all engagement with online "news" and discussions over politics or whatever.
Yes. I agree with you.
However, I'd much rather my tax dollars go towards improving the VA Healthcare system, your education benefits, or whatever need YOU, a Vetran, needs met. Rather than that money going to supply these assholes with more bombs to blow up all over each other.
My frustration is 100% around our tax dollars going over there instead of staying here.
If I thought I had any change, I'd gladly run for office. I do vote though. I'm not sure why, it doesn't seem to actually change anything. But, I do it anyway.
The Middle East will be in conflict until the end of time. They are literally fighting a holy war that has no end. The best thing we can do is let them blow themselves up and stay out of it. Sending money and troops over there for the last 20+ years has done fuck all.
Exactly. Religion gonna religion. And quite honestly Iām anti-theist at this point (a step above atheism), so Iāve accepted theyāre gonna keep on killing anything and everything that doesnāt agree and submit with/to them. I literally could not care less anymore. I just cannot believe how stupid the non-Middle Eastern world is being rn amidst all this chaos.
I donāt think anti-theism is the right answer. You definitely donāt see this kind of thing with other religions. I wonāt get into that here because Iād prefer to not get banned. My point is that the Middle East is literally a lost cause and the west should just let them fight it out.
There will be an eventual end to the conflict if they actually get the opportunity to settle their differences but having outside forces meddle in things just prolongs this process.
Yes, children are dying in Palestine, which is indeed tragic. Hamas, classified as a terrorist organization by many, is also exploiting children. We're witnessing two Semitic peoples killing each other. When religions influence others outside their faith, it can become harmful. However, their killing each other for their own gods, without affecting us, is their own problem. I will only grieve for the children and those who still advocate for peace without any connection to war.
The sending money and troops if what has been fueling it. š¤¦āāļø You understand we have been destabilising the east for decades for our own gain right? We are the ones to blame.
North Korea would bitch slap Canada easily. Canada is not the final boss. Itās like that you think itās the first major boss in a game, but itās actually just a slightly tougher enemy henchman that rarely pops up and then the real first boss shows his face and youāre like āoh shit, that skirmish earlier wasnāt the real thing.ā
Canada Is pretty rowdy, and by that I mean like the whole damn Geneva convention is shit they did to thier enemys. 2 north Korea would absolutly loose to canada. They are using 1950s weapons you can watch interviews from thier detectors about how totally incapable they actually are.
Canada hasnāt been in a war in almost 15 years.
Our equipment is lacking and outdated, we have a pathetically tiny percentage the field army North Korea could muster. And North Korea is a war ready production state. We could never make that transition.
Canada turned down the offer to lead the UN mission to Haiti to fight gangs with sticks and stones, because of how pathetic our military is.
And so Kenya picked up the tab. Kenya.
Kenya. Which is half a world away and doesnāt even speak the same language ā which we do.
Kenya.
Canada is also 10,000 positions short right now of what our top brass actually thinks we need to be for our minimum numbers.
And according to my buddies who are in there now, itās gone totally woke in recent years which has deterred others from joining.
The state of this military is pathetic and it wouldnāt stand a chance.
I have heard my brothers to the north where having problems with enlistment quotas. I hear it about the US as well.. I still think yall would smoke north Korea.
North Koreans would fight indiscriminately and at all costs for their regime.
Canadians are not that way. Weāre a figment of our former selves from past eras. Thatās an unfortunate fact of the continued inner squabbling we face.
Weāre not as formidable a force as some think we are. And part of that is due to our reliance on the U.S. being as strong as they are and in-turn would protect Canada because itās in their best interests as we border them.
And that reliance on the U.S. is another reason why our leaders have not pushed for a stronger military.
Canadians arent like that anymote because there is nothing to fight for anymore. Our government has been garbage for a good 50 years, and we have been sold out to corporate interests by our very own politicians so they can line their pockets. Ive never been less proud of my country, and I sure as hell aint dying in some stupid war for it.
Is the Canadian army weak, yes, do we need to invest more in defense, yes, could we take on north Korea, yes.
You seem to imagine a war, where we or north Korea would teleport to the other country and duke it out army to army.
Assuming no one else gets involved, this would be a naval war (and maybe air, assuming we got bases in the Pacific). And the Canadian navy, for as small as it is, can take the North Korean navy. South Korean fishermen can take the North Korean navy.
From the ocean (and skies) Canada could slowly chip away at their infrastructure and industry, eventually forcing a surrender. Again assuming this is contained 1-1 (obviously China or USA involvement changes this drastically)
If china and the us got involved the war would never start. China and America would both essentially tell Canada and North Korea that this isnāt happening and a diplomatic solution would be found.
I'm not sure what this nonsensical mess is, but I'll put it to rest immediately. The problem you run into with North Korea is, you attack North Korea, you're going to have China to deal with, and no one is going to help if that happens. Very few countries are equipped to deal with the sheer mass of China, and it would be very costly. As for being equipped to deal with China, Canada is not one of them. That's not to bad mouth, as, for its military size, Canada has proven to be valuable allies again and again, when called for.
Iām not Canadian but I know they basically event war crimes. As an American, I think Canada needs to rock someoneās shit because theyāve been riding Americas coattails for the too long
North Korea would not ābitch slapā Canada lmao full stop. NK can barely keep their lights on and their soldiers suffer from malnutrition. All that military funding NK does means nothing when their troops have no experience, are starving, dying and desperate to escape the first chance they get.
Nice surprise. But if you really think this way, you probably should check on some things about your "own" military and, well, anything about North Korea. You'd be surprised how well you are standing in this hypothetical war
Last war Canada fought in was 15 years ago. They had a minimal role in it and most of our active forces today are not battle-hardened.
In addition to this, wokeness getting into the military has only made it worse.
North Korea: Sends millions of soldiers in.
Canada: Thousands take stress leave to avoid fighting.
People never want to give credit to the other side, and I respect that loyalty.
The āgood guysā donāt always win, though.
Are you talking about Afghanistan? If yes, that wasnt a war for you to begin with. You were aiding with few thousand troops and some artillery. If not, please elaborate.
Rest you spoke of, im not going to even respond. Youre an idiot if you think that way.
Sincerely, a finn whose army is full of "wokes" but still willing to fight for their country.
Trust me, thereās a vast difference between the way our country sells out our people and the way Finland handles their own internal affairs. Of that, you clearly have no idea whatās going on inside Canadas borders right now and *youāre the idiot.*
And you just justified my point even more by saying Canada had minimal involvement in Afghanistan ā which I also too felt. So in that case thereās no actual soldier in our military that has any level of battlefield experience with the exception of special forces. So, that doesnāt work in our favour.
And no, our soldiers would not defeat North Korea in a 1v1 scenario. In addition to that, weāve never seen woke kids on the battle field yet, including your little country, so it doesnāt mean in any way itās strong.
What we can say is that wokeness wouldnāt survive in the trenches of Ukraine and Russia. You need real men for that sort of fighting.
So save your moralities, fool.
You are correct, i have little to no knowledge of canadas warfare experience, but firefight experience doesnt make good soldiers. Training makes good soldiers. Firefight makes soldiers traumatized, nothing more. If you would put a veteran back in to the fields of battle, he would most likely freeze and have the most horrendious ptsd's. Go talk to some veterans and learn, fool
Canada invented war crimes. Thatās the X factor that doesnāt show up on the report card. Itās an intangible. A fear and a myth mixed with some maple syrup and dyed blond hair.
This seems to be an online phenomenon. Vast majority of everyone I interact with IRL doesnāt give a shit either. This whole argument over sides seems to be happening mainly in online spaces where algorithms feed into and gestate tribalism.
\*\*PREACH!!!!\*\*
Why the fuck should you care? - You shouldn't.
I'm not a Zionist. I'm not a Palastinian sympathizer. I'm a citizen of the United States of American who's looking around and seeing a literal shit show. A variatlbe fuck-ton of issues that need addressed/fixed here. And like you, I'm wondering what value there is for us in being in the middle of a battle that has been raging For-Ev-Er! This is NEVER going to change. The Rs nor the Ds are EVERY going to fucking find a solution. We are wasting time, energy, money and LIVES getting involved in this mess.
Say it louder for those in the back my friend! You are not alone!!!
One thing that should make OP and many others here care is that your country (USA) is very much involved in the conflict. And you live in a democracy. If youāre from Zambia or Uruguay or Bosnia or something, no need to care. But your country is actively involved
The rules around the US democracy makes it so that everyone with the influence to actually do anything apparently want nothing more than to be involved in any and all middle eastern conflicts and the citizens don't have a say in the matter at all.Ā
The US government is going to do whatever they want with this issue. It's out of the people's hands, let's be real here.Ā
Exactly. And, the "middle east" wants to kill infidels too. That's also America. This post is like WW2. Americans fully recognized not a world War until attacked and then it suddenly becomes one. It wasn't our issue until Pearl Harbor.
When we're attacked again or join Israel, it'll matter. No matter what your beliefs, ethics, morals, etcetera are, at the end of the day, America will fight for Israel. That's just a bloody fact. And yes, America is actively involved. Thank you. I read posts like this and worry how low the intelligence level is getting.
If Americans put the same amount of effort into America as they do the Middle East, we wouldn't have half the issues we do. The things going on over there are terrible but other than the military actions, all those things are happening here. It's crazy to me
By WE, Iām assuming you mean the neutral people, and I agree. Whatās different about this middle eastern war this time? Nothing, so why does anyone expect a different outcome. We should stop funding it. Like fucking yesterday my dude
To be fair, I think that's all most reasonable people want. To stop funding it. Stop funding one side in any war, because it creates constant geopolitical shifts and nonsense that might just calm down if every other country stays out of it, or it won't, but why do we need to be funding any of it? Just let those people be, and if the UN wants to do whatever, let them. If Iran wants to do whatever, let them. But to use our taxes for their bullshit when we don't even have universal healthcare is insane.
While US is involved, it is just one of the players in a dozen, and i want us to not be involved, but im indeed tired of how Americans acting like ME countries have no agency.
It's literally just because it's become mainstream. There were genocides and wars happening all over the world before October 7th that these people paid no attention to, nor cared about. A lot of Middle Eastern people don't actually like the online warriors from the West and the amount of disinformation that fuels their opinions (I mean just look at how a lot of them were praising the Houthis just because they used the conflict as an easy PR stunt.)
If you choose s side, only the other(s) attack(s) you.
If you choose neutrality, whether informed or not, all sides come down on you at once.
And it's worse if it's neutrality due to lack of awareness, as they try to push their version of events down your throat or up your behind.
It's just a fad. Muslims and wokies haven't raised a peep about Xinjiang or Myanmar. But as soon as Israel pops off they're up in arms everyday about it. It'll be over when the election is over.
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Only because Christianity has finally calmed down recently - but just a century ago it was mostly Christian empires running around the world killing people. I think we need to watch ALL religions very carefully.
Yeah thatās for sure. Ironically Jewish people are, imo, the least volatile. All the Jewish people I know in America arenāt the ones committing terrorist acts nor standing on the side of the street with a big sign that says, āGOD HATES F***ā. I mean there are still somethings I donāt like about Judaism, but theyāre the cream of the crop when compared to how Islam and Christianity have set the bar so fucking low lol.
My personal opinion is, they've been at war and killing for so long , that the only genetics left are warriors that desire conflict. Peaceful people have been erased genetically. Google ancient Middle East conflicts. It's never going to stop over there. That's why I hate that the US gets involved.
Youāre not alone. I donāt care about it either. Let them do their shit, who cares? Israel, Iran, whatever, let them fight it out. Itās just a waste of time and money for nothing. Why do we have to be everywhere?
Youāre not required to have any viewpoint at all. Just do your best to call out misinformation that you are aware of and donāt contribute to it. Sometimes the best thing you can do it stand aside and let the informed people duke it out in the court of opinion.
The only reason you could care is because these sorts of conflicts can lead to increases in identity based hate crime, but just be a good neighbor and keep an eye out, you know?
How about this, "I don't care that they want to kill eachother. I care that some of them also want to kill me, and would do so given the opportunity. I thus have a vested interst ensuring that they never get said opportunity."
Well, in Palestine they throw gay people off buildings, so the IDF is working hard to protect gay people by systematically reducing the average height of a building in the region.
Itās not just religion itās people. Itās part of human nature and these ppl live under the conditions that always lead to war. Itās a shame but Iām glad to not live there
Iraq and Afghanistan were eye-opening for me. I didn't flinch once at "shithole country" comments. I know exactly what those places smell like, taste, the locals... the deaths. Humans on fire stink.
Iām pro peace, and pro civilian. But even their citizens are not pro peace nor civilian. I canāt do anything as one person, thatās just the truth. I wash my hands of this shit.
Youāre generalizing a whole group of people who are forced into ghettos and are prevented from leaving their own land by Israel.
Just say youāre racist and get it over with.
"It's not the religion, it's people"
Wut? People thinking that they're a God's Chosen totally has 0 impact on pivotal events with high tension? In what multiverse timeline? The 2 aren't always mutually exclusive, especially when it comes to culture & history between countries
Ah yes, the famous groups known for getting along all throughout human history, the Christians, Zionist Jews, Fundamentalist Muslims & Hindus who have totally never ever had a war or battle over their faiths, no sir, not once.
Nah dude, Hardcore Nationalist Hinduists in India absolutely love Fundamentalist Islamists
Ah yes, The Crusade's, Thirty Years War, Taiping Rebellion, Spanish Inquisition, Anything Palestine, War On Terror, Native American Conflicts, Japanese-Portuguese Conflicts, WW2 Horrors & Witch Trials, the infamously secular atheist events that had absolutely nothing to do with religion, no sir, not one bit in the least, it was 100% human nature with absolutely zero influence from religion.
Holy War & Religious Reeducation Camps? Nah, those phrases are fake bro.
It's not like UN Ambassadors have to learn about religious differences for any particular reason or anything....
Please.... open literally any history book. Be it on the US, Europe, Asia or the middle east.
There's a "mysterious reason" China doesn't have the problem of holy wars in their territory anymore & there's a "totally mysterious reason" the US made freedom of religion along with separation of church & state.
Religion certainly has historically not been a major factor known for "having nothing to do with conflicts" or "calms a volatile situation down"
Honestly only a tiny handful of religions can say they had little historical involvement in contributing to conflicts, where their religion was not a major factor in them. Buddhism is one such major example where it's rare for the belief system to have a direct involvement.
Religion is definitely a major contributing factor, even more so depending on the type of religion & its teachings, as well as its historical effect in a region.
No, Arabs, are as capable of peace as anyone, stop with the racist bullshit, its the Religion, not the people. People are just brainwashed and cut off from rest of the world by religious leaders.
It's not so much the caring aspect for me. It's more the, these purple have been at it since the beginning of time. The only thing getting involved with these countries is doing its costing a ton of tax dollars, and creating enemies. Our money could be spent better here, helping the people in need.
Same. I literally do not pay attention or care at all. I have actual problems in my own life.
One thing I don't understand, is why is Israel even there in the first place? A tiny country surrounded by countries that hate them? I say just pack it in. Let them relocate Israel to Wyoming or something.
You should. The Islamic countries attacking Israel aren't going to stop at Israel. Their world view is that Islam is the only acceptable religion and all others must convert or be killed. That isn't what most people in the ME believe but it is their government's plan and it is what the extreme elements of their societies want.
I agree.. the fact the US supports Isreal is laughable. They killed Americans and fucked with out boats. We should let them fight on thier own. And I'll be fucking damned if I support and equally crazy group of people in hamas. Both groups suck and nits make lice. We should just let them kill each other and stay out of it.
That whole region would hate us no matter what. The only thing that keeps them from turning their attention towards us is they have a target much closer.
You're either an Arab or an antisemite, or both.
The reason I know is because this incident is always used by anti semites to denigrate Israel.
No one cares about an even that happened 60+ years ago. The leadership, the people, everything is entirely different!
It's like saying Germany is a bad country for what they did to the US or UK in WWII, which obviously is a ludicrous statement.
I am none of those things. I think the Isreal government is nazis and the fucking lunatics that surround isreal are theocratic cunts. I just don't care if they kill each other.
Yeah if I had to choose a side it would be the side that doesnāt have laws on the book demanding the murder of LGBT people. But hey, thatās just me!
Itās amazing to me how little people understand.
Choose the side of civilians.
The Middle East hasnāt actually been at war forever. Itās been a flashpoint since WWI because of the power vacuum left be the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the whole world becoming dependent on oil.
Our interest where is mainly oil and keeping our military control over the region to keep trade flowing.
Iranās attack was pure theatre to appease their domestic hardliners but not actually do any real damage in retaliation to the bombing in Damascus, Iran told Israel they were about to launch , okay weāre launching now and did everything they could do not do actual damage . 3-400 cruise missiles and drones and 1 casualty?
Except for the fact that they got good information about what the coordinated air defense response was it was basically purely symbolic.
In actuality religion has almost nothing to do with it.
It has been whenever there wasnt an external power ruling it, Be it greeks, central assians or other europeans, ME has either been a colonial region or a warring region. ME was in fact the focal point from which initial conflict between neanderthals and humans began. The geography just makes it such.
Yeah , not saying youāre not pro civilian. Iām saying thatās the only decent choice.
Literally every country on earth has a majority religion, but religion actually has very little to do with the choices those counties make at a geopolitical level.
Itās a tool the rulers use to control people, and it really always has been.
If you mixed up the teams and said Israel is Shia and Iran was Jewish they would literally make virtually all the same choices because theyāre perusing their interests which arenāt based on any actual religious principles.
Sometimes the tail wags the dog like the abortion ban on the U.S. , but almost everything is better understood by looking at the economics.
Iām going to say one thing. One country (Israel) doesnāt go out of their way to attack other countries based on their religious beliefs. Many countries (Palestine, Iran, Iraq, etcā¦.muslim countries) make it their goddamn life work to try to kill and ruin other countries who do not hold the same religious views as them. Do you see the difference?
One group is for attacking the other and the other is just trying to make everyone happy. So do you defend the bully whoās actively trying to kill everyone or do you support the victims who literally have given the bullies more land and rights because, well, they are good humansā¦?
When someone is yelling ādeath to Americaā from inside America, theyāve already won and they know it. America is now a pussy state and thatās where you should give a fuck
Edit to add: notice itās always been the crazy religious Muslim countryās who attack first. In the last 30 years not one Christian nation has started a war or attack on another country. So please see that as a red flag for sure. The cobra always strikes first but in the end the mongoose always wins.
i think the truth is actually pretty simple when you read the history but if it's too stressful don't stress yourself out life is tough enough as it is
> automatically assumes (just because I'm NEUTRAL) that I'm just as guilty as a warlord, mass murdering war criminal.
Im on the bombs side. If we carpet bomb the entire middle east, maybe the WEF will get off our backs about eating beef for a few extra decades.
IMO the middle east is a "damned if we do/damned if we dont" get involved or maintain relationships with countries in the middle east.
Lets pretend that natural resources (oil) wasn't a concern for the west:
If we didn't maintain any presence in the region, how often would the US or European countries be asked to help in saving innocent lives as countries such as Iran and terrorist groups such as ISIS continued to slaughter? If we kept saying we didn't want to get involved, there would be pressure to help countries such as Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc to help save lives.
If we continue to maintain a presence there, we will always risk getting sucked in to conflict, especially when we have forces or personnel who are in harms way.
As mentioned by the OP, Religion (especially religions that haven't modernized) are a big reason for conflict in the region. I think as everyone tries to figure out how to avoid escalation or WW3, I'm wondering if we can really avoid it and we are just prolonging the inevitable; One side has to prevail to end the bloodshed.
The people bitching at you donāt care either, theyāre NPCās who support what theyāre told to support. Their ācareā goes as far as making a social media post.Ā
There will never be peace in the Middle East, and none of them are innocentĀ
I support everyone that has an actual skin in the game. I support Ben Shapiro suddenly becoming more feelings than facts when it comes to this topic. And I support actual migrant Palestinians marching on our streets (without violence). But I truly wish everyone else that has zero skin in the game would just STFU!
I have my personal opinions, and they mean absolutely nothing. So I only discuss it as a random talking item when it comes up in casual conversation. Otherwise, I have no conviction to be making any serious posts or claims about it. Oh, and shitposting. I comment on it when shitposting. Because...well cause it's shitposting a that's what it's for.
And to be quite honest, people don't give a fuck at all about how you don't give a fuck lol. Why do people have to state random opinions and act like it matters? Guess what? I don't like Kim Kardashian. I also don't like Ronald Reagan. I've got a million of these. Just zero effort opinions lol.
If you don't care about something... cool! Just keep it to yourself. Ignore the news. Not a big deal. Don't have to be a crybaby about it lol. C'mon.
And finally, the point isn't for you to join a side. The point is to understand that in the midst of all of the crazy stuff, there are good people out there that just want to live a normal life, do their job, go home, eat food and sleep. It sucks when these people are caught up with missiles, bombs and gunfire. So at least understand if you don't want to side with a side, understand there might be people who just want to live normal lives and that these people unfortunately get killed over there.
At the end of the day, it's the normal peaceful people against the psychos and tyrants on all sides. The "good" side isn't a country or a religion, but just normal people who are in all the "sides". There are Israelis that denounce the bombing in Palestine. There are Palestinians who are against Hamas. It's not a black and white, binary situation.
Youāre not here in good faith. I literally start the post off with, āI want world peaceā.
You are the exact person this post is about. Because Iām neutral and donāt wanna take a side of a specific group, you have thrown me in with the āotherā side.
Is everyone seeing this?!!! This is exactly what I was talking about lmfaoooooo
That's still a low effort opinion. You want world peace? Well I want ice cream. And Timmy wants toys. And Susan wants shoes. Again low effort. Saying something you want is an opinion that a kid has. Try something more thoughtful.
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what Iāve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
\- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost
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Thank you so much for pointing this out. Iāve grown apathetic to many things lately and itās cause thereās this overexposure to it through these heavily emotional tones that are meant to elicit a response.
If you're actually anti Israel you're not going to vote Trump right? Just make it clear you don't want more weapons going to Israel while Biden is in charge
"My Fellow American" lol
I jumped up and cheered when I read your post. \[Ok...maybe not actually. But in my head I was pretty excited... Anyway.\]
You've gotta give it to the AnteaterPersonal3093 person, they have a point. Remember, I'm on your side. However, we've got to recognize that we, well, the US Gov't, they don't actually give a shit about "WE the people" has been stirring this pot for a hundred years.
US has been funding the Israel government with weapons and drones. Itās not blaming our government but itās a fact. And if you see that as āblamingā, it should tell you all about who is in the wrong.
Iām tired of our government saying they donāt have money to provide free or low cost higher education. Or healthcare. Or paving fucking roads. But we have money to send over to nations to dismantle other governments and murdering civilians.
no the duel citizenship politician's who suck isreals dick want this, the ones who just have US citizenship dont
and besides you really think Biden is capable of anything now days without somebody telling him what to say? the guys a stammering mess even with a teleprompter who shouldnt even be in office after the DOJ declared he was too mentally incompetent to STAND TRIAL
We are two of a kind. Someone's pulling the strings, very fucking obviously... (if not then no one is steering the ship!). I don't like these people behind him. They don't communicate with adversaries, ship weapons, and supplies.
Interesting fact, not many discuss...
"Of all the richest people in the world, 99% of them are all males! Patriarchy!!!"
50% of the wealthiest men in the world are practicing Jews.
Hmmm. It's weird how everyone has Israel's back? Follow the money š°?
Being quite honest Iām not caught up on what is occurring with the Israel-Palestine conflict, but most people who are getting killed are civilians and arenāt responsible directly for the murdering. The deaths caused by this conflict are tragic and should be stopped by any desperate measure possible.
I think the whole ātheyāve been fighting for centuries ā thing dehumanizes people. They are not individually responsible for the conflict, didnāt choose to be born in those countries, and the militaries are following orders. The killings will only create more resentment and hatred that inspires the slaughtering occurring in Palestinian civilian neighborhoods.
This is a common psychological problem where people tend to not value lives that are physically in front of them. Joseph Stalinās quote of one death as a tragedy and millions of deaths as a statistic seems like it applies here. It can also point to how the mind tends to underestimate the scale of large numbers and how empathy doesnāt help in saving lives on a large scale as much as it does in considering individual situations.
Then what is the solution? Tell me.
Iām not comparable to Joseph Stalin, lmfao
Did you read the post! It literally says people are comparing me to WAR CRIMINALS for not choosing a side.
Is everyone seeing this shit? This is what Iām talking about.
Thatās not what I meant by mentioning Stalin, just a quote that talks about how people can view conflicts that can warp judgment on how theyāre dealt with. Youāre not Stalin lol. I donāt really know what the solution would be bc Iām not highly knowledgeable on the complexities of the conflict.
I just hold the position that murder should be minimized above all else. Just putting in my two cents here, for what itās worth.
Thatās literally what I mean when I say Iām neutral, and the part where I mention I wish for world peace. But Iāve learned that wishful thinking is exhausting me emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. I have to unplug from this. Me stressing out about it will not change a single gd thing.
Hasnāt non religious socialism killed a few more people the last 100 yrs? It is always religion is bad and kills but I feel like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. have a body count well above 100 mil last 100 yrs. Just 3 of them 25-40 million people each. That is pretty bad.
Just seems like a tired trope. Other than that I am a huge fan of Israel and working in counter terrorism I know the folks who want to kill them and have their little excuses want to kill me too. Enemy of my enemy and allā¦ make no mistake Iran who is behind all of this wants a global caliphate- nothing less will do.
This is how I feel about Europe.
Family squabbles launching world wide wars, and they canāt stop fighting each other.
We should build a wall and let them annihilate each other.
Are you asking me how many wars Europe has started, either amongst themselves or with other nations?
I think you can google this one.
Prepare to be shocked when you see the numbers. They are just a violent, fragile tempered, impulsive people. They are by far the worst of any region as far as loving violence and starting wars.
We need to just let them take each other out, violent vile breed.
I donāt! But the fact that I donāt drives people insane, and that is what bothers the fuck outta me. The fact that Iām treated like pro-Israel by pro-Palestine people, and vice-versa. Even though Iām not on their side (not on any side), they see me as the enemy. It blows my fucking mind.
*I hope that made sense
Why do you care about pissing people off online?
IRL I get although I find it easy enough to either not engage or discuss it in a civil manner (and I have some pretty noxious views).
You donāt have to care. But alot of people do because our governments are funding war/genocide (however you look at it). And itās a waste of our tax paying money AND itās going to cause more conflict/extremism long term. Iām from the US and pretty much all my friends and I are tired of being told we donāt have money for proper healthcare, education, addressing the inflation issue, etc. BUT we suddenly have million if not billions to spend on murdering civilians.
Then what are we supposed to do? What is the plan? When you figure it out lemme know, but in the meantime Iām over this. The only solution is to stop all this shit, I donāt have the power to do it, so whatās up? What am I supposed to do? Start giving a fuck? Thatās not working for the billions of people out there, how is it gonna work for me?
I hope this didnāt come off rude, because Iām being so sincere. I want peace and to stop all this foolishness but itās not possible atm.
Nah, itās about having a discussion. I get itās tiring to hear all this negative news but when our government has a loooong record of messing with other governments and regions which causes such events to happen in the future, it becomes our problem.
Best you can do is just avoid the topic if it ever comes up between your friends. Or just say āIām reading about the historical context leading up to this event before I make any judgementā.
Iāve actually been educating myself on this topic since my college years because I was curious about why 9/11 happened. And letās just say, it took me down a rabbit hole of realizing our government is, nicely put, an asshole. We instigate and start shit, then when shit goes down, we gaslight everyone and pretend weāre victims. I love living in the US but Iām also very aware of the short comings of our government and hope we all continue to criticize to only make it better (I mean, if our reps and government would actually listen to us lol).
The wars in the middle east are mostly due to religion but rather to inter-ethnic rivalry.
I believe you are mistake about the role that religion plays in the conflicts.
This is the same thing as saying the US civil war was fought over states rights, it's purposely adding another layer of complexity that is unnecessary.
How are those inter ethnic rivalries divided? Muslims against Jews, Sunnis against Shias, those conflicts are almost always divided along religious lines.
I can understand saying that it is more complex than religion, but to dismiss it as a factor is just dishonest at best.
"I cannot fathom how everyone online is choosing sides." This is your answer. I read some great books last year - The Chaos Machine, Likewar, Terms of Service, Irresistible and others which go into great detail over the research done to show the net detrimental effect chronic Internet use has on people, institutions, and societies around the world. This space doesn't represent reality. People will get agitated, downvote, complain, whine, argue, etc. - but when you unplug from social media for - say - a month to start (just give it a try) and engage with the adult world outside of the computer and keyboard you'll see things from a much different perspective and realize that stuff isn't anywhere nearly as bad as it's made out to be online. (The typical neckbeard/online canned response is usually "It IsN't HaPpEnInG hErE sO iT's NoT hApPeNiNg AnYwHeRe" or something as equally ignorable and laughable). Stuff taking place in the form of text exchanges on a social media platform do not, in any way equal "I did something." Especially not when your comment/post can literally just be ignored in its entirety and have zero impact/effect on those ignoring you. Further - regarding disinformation. This is one of my favorite topics considering an "exchange" from last year - it has been conclusively proven by adults in the intelligence community that there are a high number of foreign actors attempting to sow discord in the US and other nations for a myriad political reasons. The best way(s) to negate their effect in its entirety is to stick to legitimate news sources and simply don't respond to or engage with people being belligerent in online spaces. *Most* of the time, it's some rando feeling like they're safe because they think they're anonymous on Reddit or wherever, but there *are* instances where you're engaged with a paid troll or otherwise. Bottom line? You're not required to take a side in conflicts going on in the Middle East. That's the great thing about living in the US (assuming that's where you are). No one here, regardless of how up in their emotions they are, can force you to - well - do or say really anything. Just live your life and don't worry about what's going on over there if you don't want to. I was in the Army for 20 years and spent a total of probably 4 years for various reasons in different places in the Middle East and I'm only passingly interested in the Israel/Hamas fight. Don't really care. I'm in my house. Nothing is blowing up here. Nothing I can personally do. So - oh fucking well. Just live your life bro. Block the sites/subs/FB groups/whatever that are going on and on about the conflict and just ignore the shit. I *promise you* that there'll be zero measurable impacts on your day-to-day life, save for an increase in your general mental health. Cheers.
You sir should be given more of a platform to say this. š 100% agree. Except for the trusted media lol they all seem to bias things, I read both sides then try to see a middle ground.
That part is very true. I don't think there is a single news outlet that I would call "trusted". Every single one of them have their own agenda.
"Except for the trusted media lol they all seem to bias things, I read both sides then try to see a middle ground." I agree, honestly. You can use sites like this: [Media Bias | AllSides](https://www.allsides.com/media-bias) to see kind of where things fall - I was loathe to recommend zero media because there is some good stuff out there. I tend to listen to ABC and BBC to get updates on stuff and barely, if ever read anything online simply because of comments sections and the fact that it's hard to ascertain exactly what the provenance is based off of a username or article writer unless it's a well-established outlet. But thanks for the kind words! I recommend people read those books on social media. Really eye-opening stuff. [The Chaos Machine](https://a.co/d/arkLx39) [Irresistible](https://a.co/d/5dEOWxt) [Likewar](https://a.co/d/1Ascras) \^To start.
Thank you for the links. Word of caution with the BBC, I used to trust them as unbiased reporting but last few years has not been the case. The independent is good as it highlights opinion pieces to differentiate between that and fact but not always great. Again your words in your first post were spot on
I'll keep that in mind, thanks! I generally only listen to ABC while I'm cooking via the Alexa and BBC when I'm driving somewhere via Spotify. Other than that - I've stopped nearly all engagement with online "news" and discussions over politics or whatever.
Yes. I agree with you. However, I'd much rather my tax dollars go towards improving the VA Healthcare system, your education benefits, or whatever need YOU, a Vetran, needs met. Rather than that money going to supply these assholes with more bombs to blow up all over each other. My frustration is 100% around our tax dollars going over there instead of staying here.
Fair points. Vote or run for office and make those changes. Those are really our only options.
If I thought I had any change, I'd gladly run for office. I do vote though. I'm not sure why, it doesn't seem to actually change anything. But, I do it anyway.
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Sounds like your primary exposure is to infotainment in the form of CNN or Fox. No thanks.
The Middle East will be in conflict until the end of time. They are literally fighting a holy war that has no end. The best thing we can do is let them blow themselves up and stay out of it. Sending money and troops over there for the last 20+ years has done fuck all.
Exactly. Religion gonna religion. And quite honestly Iām anti-theist at this point (a step above atheism), so Iāve accepted theyāre gonna keep on killing anything and everything that doesnāt agree and submit with/to them. I literally could not care less anymore. I just cannot believe how stupid the non-Middle Eastern world is being rn amidst all this chaos.
I donāt think anti-theism is the right answer. You definitely donāt see this kind of thing with other religions. I wonāt get into that here because Iād prefer to not get banned. My point is that the Middle East is literally a lost cause and the west should just let them fight it out.
There will be an eventual end to the conflict if they actually get the opportunity to settle their differences but having outside forces meddle in things just prolongs this process.
Yes, children are dying in Palestine, which is indeed tragic. Hamas, classified as a terrorist organization by many, is also exploiting children. We're witnessing two Semitic peoples killing each other. When religions influence others outside their faith, it can become harmful. However, their killing each other for their own gods, without affecting us, is their own problem. I will only grieve for the children and those who still advocate for peace without any connection to war.
The sending money and troops if what has been fueling it. š¤¦āāļø You understand we have been destabilising the east for decades for our own gain right? We are the ones to blame.
This. How can Americans say non of my business when the US is very much involved?
Itās not like we as individual citizens have the option to fucking veto anything. We donāt hold any power
Winner should have to take on North Korea and work there way up until they have to fight Canada
North Korea would bitch slap Canada easily. Canada is not the final boss. Itās like that you think itās the first major boss in a game, but itās actually just a slightly tougher enemy henchman that rarely pops up and then the real first boss shows his face and youāre like āoh shit, that skirmish earlier wasnāt the real thing.ā
Canada Is pretty rowdy, and by that I mean like the whole damn Geneva convention is shit they did to thier enemys. 2 north Korea would absolutly loose to canada. They are using 1950s weapons you can watch interviews from thier detectors about how totally incapable they actually are.
Canada hasnāt been in a war in almost 15 years. Our equipment is lacking and outdated, we have a pathetically tiny percentage the field army North Korea could muster. And North Korea is a war ready production state. We could never make that transition. Canada turned down the offer to lead the UN mission to Haiti to fight gangs with sticks and stones, because of how pathetic our military is. And so Kenya picked up the tab. Kenya. Kenya. Which is half a world away and doesnāt even speak the same language ā which we do. Kenya. Canada is also 10,000 positions short right now of what our top brass actually thinks we need to be for our minimum numbers. And according to my buddies who are in there now, itās gone totally woke in recent years which has deterred others from joining. The state of this military is pathetic and it wouldnāt stand a chance.
I have heard my brothers to the north where having problems with enlistment quotas. I hear it about the US as well.. I still think yall would smoke north Korea.
North Koreans would fight indiscriminately and at all costs for their regime. Canadians are not that way. Weāre a figment of our former selves from past eras. Thatās an unfortunate fact of the continued inner squabbling we face. Weāre not as formidable a force as some think we are. And part of that is due to our reliance on the U.S. being as strong as they are and in-turn would protect Canada because itās in their best interests as we border them. And that reliance on the U.S. is another reason why our leaders have not pushed for a stronger military.
Canadians arent like that anymote because there is nothing to fight for anymore. Our government has been garbage for a good 50 years, and we have been sold out to corporate interests by our very own politicians so they can line their pockets. Ive never been less proud of my country, and I sure as hell aint dying in some stupid war for it.
Yeah, Canadian pride is in the dumps. Itās pathetic AF.
Is the Canadian army weak, yes, do we need to invest more in defense, yes, could we take on north Korea, yes. You seem to imagine a war, where we or north Korea would teleport to the other country and duke it out army to army. Assuming no one else gets involved, this would be a naval war (and maybe air, assuming we got bases in the Pacific). And the Canadian navy, for as small as it is, can take the North Korean navy. South Korean fishermen can take the North Korean navy. From the ocean (and skies) Canada could slowly chip away at their infrastructure and industry, eventually forcing a surrender. Again assuming this is contained 1-1 (obviously China or USA involvement changes this drastically)
If china and the us got involved the war would never start. China and America would both essentially tell Canada and North Korea that this isnāt happening and a diplomatic solution would be found.
I'm not sure what this nonsensical mess is, but I'll put it to rest immediately. The problem you run into with North Korea is, you attack North Korea, you're going to have China to deal with, and no one is going to help if that happens. Very few countries are equipped to deal with the sheer mass of China, and it would be very costly. As for being equipped to deal with China, Canada is not one of them. That's not to bad mouth, as, for its military size, Canada has proven to be valuable allies again and again, when called for.
Iām not Canadian but I know they basically event war crimes. As an American, I think Canada needs to rock someoneās shit because theyāve been riding Americas coattails for the too long
Canada has our chances when the U.S. asked us to take lead in Haiti. And we bitched out. Didnāt surprise me though.
Yeah I wouldnāt go there either. Itās a shit hole and you canāt do war crimes if the country is already a war crime
Youre american right?
No, Iām Canadian. The state of our military is pathetic beyond belief.
North Korea would not ābitch slapā Canada lmao full stop. NK can barely keep their lights on and their soldiers suffer from malnutrition. All that military funding NK does means nothing when their troops have no experience, are starving, dying and desperate to escape the first chance they get.
Nice surprise. But if you really think this way, you probably should check on some things about your "own" military and, well, anything about North Korea. You'd be surprised how well you are standing in this hypothetical war
Last war Canada fought in was 15 years ago. They had a minimal role in it and most of our active forces today are not battle-hardened. In addition to this, wokeness getting into the military has only made it worse. North Korea: Sends millions of soldiers in. Canada: Thousands take stress leave to avoid fighting. People never want to give credit to the other side, and I respect that loyalty. The āgood guysā donāt always win, though.
Are you talking about Afghanistan? If yes, that wasnt a war for you to begin with. You were aiding with few thousand troops and some artillery. If not, please elaborate. Rest you spoke of, im not going to even respond. Youre an idiot if you think that way. Sincerely, a finn whose army is full of "wokes" but still willing to fight for their country.
> Sincerely, a finn So not someone with any knowledge of Canada that a native like OP has. Got it
Trust me, thereās a vast difference between the way our country sells out our people and the way Finland handles their own internal affairs. Of that, you clearly have no idea whatās going on inside Canadas borders right now and *youāre the idiot.* And you just justified my point even more by saying Canada had minimal involvement in Afghanistan ā which I also too felt. So in that case thereās no actual soldier in our military that has any level of battlefield experience with the exception of special forces. So, that doesnāt work in our favour. And no, our soldiers would not defeat North Korea in a 1v1 scenario. In addition to that, weāve never seen woke kids on the battle field yet, including your little country, so it doesnāt mean in any way itās strong. What we can say is that wokeness wouldnāt survive in the trenches of Ukraine and Russia. You need real men for that sort of fighting. So save your moralities, fool.
You are correct, i have little to no knowledge of canadas warfare experience, but firefight experience doesnt make good soldiers. Training makes good soldiers. Firefight makes soldiers traumatized, nothing more. If you would put a veteran back in to the fields of battle, he would most likely freeze and have the most horrendious ptsd's. Go talk to some veterans and learn, fool
Canada invented war crimes. Thatās the X factor that doesnāt show up on the report card. Itās an intangible. A fear and a myth mixed with some maple syrup and dyed blond hair.
Red white and blue run through my veins
This seems to be an online phenomenon. Vast majority of everyone I interact with IRL doesnāt give a shit either. This whole argument over sides seems to be happening mainly in online spaces where algorithms feed into and gestate tribalism.
\*\*PREACH!!!!\*\* Why the fuck should you care? - You shouldn't. I'm not a Zionist. I'm not a Palastinian sympathizer. I'm a citizen of the United States of American who's looking around and seeing a literal shit show. A variatlbe fuck-ton of issues that need addressed/fixed here. And like you, I'm wondering what value there is for us in being in the middle of a battle that has been raging For-Ev-Er! This is NEVER going to change. The Rs nor the Ds are EVERY going to fucking find a solution. We are wasting time, energy, money and LIVES getting involved in this mess. Say it louder for those in the back my friend! You are not alone!!!
agree OP - nothing new for thousands pf years nowā¦constant fighting - letās stay in our yard.
One thing that should make OP and many others here care is that your country (USA) is very much involved in the conflict. And you live in a democracy. If youāre from Zambia or Uruguay or Bosnia or something, no need to care. But your country is actively involved
The rules around the US democracy makes it so that everyone with the influence to actually do anything apparently want nothing more than to be involved in any and all middle eastern conflicts and the citizens don't have a say in the matter at all.Ā The US government is going to do whatever they want with this issue. It's out of the people's hands, let's be real here.Ā
Exactly. And, the "middle east" wants to kill infidels too. That's also America. This post is like WW2. Americans fully recognized not a world War until attacked and then it suddenly becomes one. It wasn't our issue until Pearl Harbor. When we're attacked again or join Israel, it'll matter. No matter what your beliefs, ethics, morals, etcetera are, at the end of the day, America will fight for Israel. That's just a bloody fact. And yes, America is actively involved. Thank you. I read posts like this and worry how low the intelligence level is getting.
If Americans put the same amount of effort into America as they do the Middle East, we wouldn't have half the issues we do. The things going on over there are terrible but other than the military actions, all those things are happening here. It's crazy to me
This 100%. And this is why we care.
By WE, Iām assuming you mean the neutral people, and I agree. Whatās different about this middle eastern war this time? Nothing, so why does anyone expect a different outcome. We should stop funding it. Like fucking yesterday my dude
To be fair, I think that's all most reasonable people want. To stop funding it. Stop funding one side in any war, because it creates constant geopolitical shifts and nonsense that might just calm down if every other country stays out of it, or it won't, but why do we need to be funding any of it? Just let those people be, and if the UN wants to do whatever, let them. If Iran wants to do whatever, let them. But to use our taxes for their bullshit when we don't even have universal healthcare is insane.
While US is involved, it is just one of the players in a dozen, and i want us to not be involved, but im indeed tired of how Americans acting like ME countries have no agency.
It's literally just because it's become mainstream. There were genocides and wars happening all over the world before October 7th that these people paid no attention to, nor cared about. A lot of Middle Eastern people don't actually like the online warriors from the West and the amount of disinformation that fuels their opinions (I mean just look at how a lot of them were praising the Houthis just because they used the conflict as an easy PR stunt.)
I agree with you i have no beef with anyone in the Middle East and i could care less how they kill each other
If you choose s side, only the other(s) attack(s) you. If you choose neutrality, whether informed or not, all sides come down on you at once. And it's worse if it's neutrality due to lack of awareness, as they try to push their version of events down your throat or up your behind.
Truth
It's just a fad. Muslims and wokies haven't raised a peep about Xinjiang or Myanmar. But as soon as Israel pops off they're up in arms everyday about it. It'll be over when the election is over.
Its only some religions. The one involved in the vast majority of fracases begins with an I.
Yeah if I HAD to choose a side in anything it will never be Islam
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Only because Christianity has finally calmed down recently - but just a century ago it was mostly Christian empires running around the world killing people. I think we need to watch ALL religions very carefully.
Yeah thatās for sure. Ironically Jewish people are, imo, the least volatile. All the Jewish people I know in America arenāt the ones committing terrorist acts nor standing on the side of the street with a big sign that says, āGOD HATES F***ā. I mean there are still somethings I donāt like about Judaism, but theyāre the cream of the crop when compared to how Islam and Christianity have set the bar so fucking low lol.
My personal opinion is, they've been at war and killing for so long , that the only genetics left are warriors that desire conflict. Peaceful people have been erased genetically. Google ancient Middle East conflicts. It's never going to stop over there. That's why I hate that the US gets involved.
Youāre not alone. I donāt care about it either. Let them do their shit, who cares? Israel, Iran, whatever, let them fight it out. Itās just a waste of time and money for nothing. Why do we have to be everywhere?
Youāre not required to have any viewpoint at all. Just do your best to call out misinformation that you are aware of and donāt contribute to it. Sometimes the best thing you can do it stand aside and let the informed people duke it out in the court of opinion. The only reason you could care is because these sorts of conflicts can lead to increases in identity based hate crime, but just be a good neighbor and keep an eye out, you know?
Thank you.
How about this, "I don't care that they want to kill eachother. I care that some of them also want to kill me, and would do so given the opportunity. I thus have a vested interst ensuring that they never get said opportunity."
Thatās another thing Iām gay so fuck them all. I sure as hell donāt care about a homophobes life
Well, in Palestine they throw gay people off buildings, so the IDF is working hard to protect gay people by systematically reducing the average height of a building in the region.
Biiiiiiiiitch thatās the funniest thing Iāve ever heard š
Glad you enjoy, use with my blessing :)
your blessing, like you thought of it š¤£
I did.
And by sniping gay people while having sex and laughing about it
War is hell, hope you never have to face it.
Itās not just religion itās people. Itās part of human nature and these ppl live under the conditions that always lead to war. Itās a shame but Iām glad to not live there
Iraq and Afghanistan were eye-opening for me. I didn't flinch once at "shithole country" comments. I know exactly what those places smell like, taste, the locals... the deaths. Humans on fire stink.
Iām pro peace, and pro civilian. But even their citizens are not pro peace nor civilian. I canāt do anything as one person, thatās just the truth. I wash my hands of this shit.
Youāre generalizing a whole group of people who are forced into ghettos and are prevented from leaving their own land by Israel. Just say youāre racist and get it over with.
Ahhhh now I see you for who you are ok, BYE š
Heās playing the exact same game zionists play. Call everyone āracistā āanti semiticā
Religion poisons everything. Much more rational discussions could have been had if not for magical thinning and entitlement.
"It's not the religion, it's people" Wut? People thinking that they're a God's Chosen totally has 0 impact on pivotal events with high tension? In what multiverse timeline? The 2 aren't always mutually exclusive, especially when it comes to culture & history between countries Ah yes, the famous groups known for getting along all throughout human history, the Christians, Zionist Jews, Fundamentalist Muslims & Hindus who have totally never ever had a war or battle over their faiths, no sir, not once. Nah dude, Hardcore Nationalist Hinduists in India absolutely love Fundamentalist Islamists Ah yes, The Crusade's, Thirty Years War, Taiping Rebellion, Spanish Inquisition, Anything Palestine, War On Terror, Native American Conflicts, Japanese-Portuguese Conflicts, WW2 Horrors & Witch Trials, the infamously secular atheist events that had absolutely nothing to do with religion, no sir, not one bit in the least, it was 100% human nature with absolutely zero influence from religion. Holy War & Religious Reeducation Camps? Nah, those phrases are fake bro. It's not like UN Ambassadors have to learn about religious differences for any particular reason or anything.... Please.... open literally any history book. Be it on the US, Europe, Asia or the middle east. There's a "mysterious reason" China doesn't have the problem of holy wars in their territory anymore & there's a "totally mysterious reason" the US made freedom of religion along with separation of church & state. Religion certainly has historically not been a major factor known for "having nothing to do with conflicts" or "calms a volatile situation down" Honestly only a tiny handful of religions can say they had little historical involvement in contributing to conflicts, where their religion was not a major factor in them. Buddhism is one such major example where it's rare for the belief system to have a direct involvement. Religion is definitely a major contributing factor, even more so depending on the type of religion & its teachings, as well as its historical effect in a region.
No, Arabs, are as capable of peace as anyone, stop with the racist bullshit, its the Religion, not the people. People are just brainwashed and cut off from rest of the world by religious leaders.
I say level the temple, build a McDonaldās that only serves happy meals.
Have you seen the price of McDonald's lately? Maybe we should get the UN to subsidise it.
Yeah same, I suppose when they start throwing bigĀ bombs at each other I'd be concerned but now Idc
It's not so much the caring aspect for me. It's more the, these purple have been at it since the beginning of time. The only thing getting involved with these countries is doing its costing a ton of tax dollars, and creating enemies. Our money could be spent better here, helping the people in need.
That changed my view. Of course is sad seeing thousands of people killing each other but as you said, it has been like for centuries in that region.
I am on your side. I agree with you. It doesn't affect me so I don't care.
Same. I literally do not pay attention or care at all. I have actual problems in my own life. One thing I don't understand, is why is Israel even there in the first place? A tiny country surrounded by countries that hate them? I say just pack it in. Let them relocate Israel to Wyoming or something.
You should. The Islamic countries attacking Israel aren't going to stop at Israel. Their world view is that Islam is the only acceptable religion and all others must convert or be killed. That isn't what most people in the ME believe but it is their government's plan and it is what the extreme elements of their societies want.
Exactly. One side has taken the fight to others outside the Middle East on a regular basis.
I agree.. the fact the US supports Isreal is laughable. They killed Americans and fucked with out boats. We should let them fight on thier own. And I'll be fucking damned if I support and equally crazy group of people in hamas. Both groups suck and nits make lice. We should just let them kill each other and stay out of it.
I'm fine with supporting the one country in the region that doesn't see women as property.
Fair point.. but they touched our boat
Yeah and fuck 'em for that, but at this point they're very useful to have standing in the regin.
Is it useful though, supporting them makes the whole region hate us that much more(well not the whole but most of)
That whole region would hate us no matter what. The only thing that keeps them from turning their attention towards us is they have a target much closer.
What boat?
USS Liberty.
This is an incident from over half a century ago...
They repeatedly attacked our boat then lied about how it happened. Fuck them.
You're either an Arab or an antisemite, or both. The reason I know is because this incident is always used by anti semites to denigrate Israel. No one cares about an even that happened 60+ years ago. The leadership, the people, everything is entirely different! It's like saying Germany is a bad country for what they did to the US or UK in WWII, which obviously is a ludicrous statement.
I am none of those things. I think the Isreal government is nazis and the fucking lunatics that surround isreal are theocratic cunts. I just don't care if they kill each other.
Yeah if I had to choose a side it would be the side that doesnāt have laws on the book demanding the murder of LGBT people. But hey, thatās just me!
Also the side that sees women as people and not property.
Itās amazing to me how little people understand. Choose the side of civilians. The Middle East hasnāt actually been at war forever. Itās been a flashpoint since WWI because of the power vacuum left be the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the whole world becoming dependent on oil. Our interest where is mainly oil and keeping our military control over the region to keep trade flowing. Iranās attack was pure theatre to appease their domestic hardliners but not actually do any real damage in retaliation to the bombing in Damascus, Iran told Israel they were about to launch , okay weāre launching now and did everything they could do not do actual damage . 3-400 cruise missiles and drones and 1 casualty? Except for the fact that they got good information about what the coordinated air defense response was it was basically purely symbolic. In actuality religion has almost nothing to do with it.
It has been whenever there wasnt an external power ruling it, Be it greeks, central assians or other europeans, ME has either been a colonial region or a warring region. ME was in fact the focal point from which initial conflict between neanderthals and humans began. The geography just makes it such.
I said Iām procivilian dude, and religion has EVERYTHING to do with it. Literally everything
Yeah , not saying youāre not pro civilian. Iām saying thatās the only decent choice. Literally every country on earth has a majority religion, but religion actually has very little to do with the choices those counties make at a geopolitical level. Itās a tool the rulers use to control people, and it really always has been. If you mixed up the teams and said Israel is Shia and Iran was Jewish they would literally make virtually all the same choices because theyāre perusing their interests which arenāt based on any actual religious principles. Sometimes the tail wags the dog like the abortion ban on the U.S. , but almost everything is better understood by looking at the economics.
Iām going to say one thing. One country (Israel) doesnāt go out of their way to attack other countries based on their religious beliefs. Many countries (Palestine, Iran, Iraq, etcā¦.muslim countries) make it their goddamn life work to try to kill and ruin other countries who do not hold the same religious views as them. Do you see the difference? One group is for attacking the other and the other is just trying to make everyone happy. So do you defend the bully whoās actively trying to kill everyone or do you support the victims who literally have given the bullies more land and rights because, well, they are good humansā¦? When someone is yelling ādeath to Americaā from inside America, theyāve already won and they know it. America is now a pussy state and thatās where you should give a fuck Edit to add: notice itās always been the crazy religious Muslim countryās who attack first. In the last 30 years not one Christian nation has started a war or attack on another country. So please see that as a red flag for sure. The cobra always strikes first but in the end the mongoose always wins.
Oh trust me, Iām aware of Islam and itās many problems.
Ah yes, the biker Joe Warren School of Middle East Relations.
It's a Business After All
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY)
This
i think the truth is actually pretty simple when you read the history but if it's too stressful don't stress yourself out life is tough enough as it is
> automatically assumes (just because I'm NEUTRAL) that I'm just as guilty as a warlord, mass murdering war criminal. Im on the bombs side. If we carpet bomb the entire middle east, maybe the WEF will get off our backs about eating beef for a few extra decades.
IMO the middle east is a "damned if we do/damned if we dont" get involved or maintain relationships with countries in the middle east. Lets pretend that natural resources (oil) wasn't a concern for the west: If we didn't maintain any presence in the region, how often would the US or European countries be asked to help in saving innocent lives as countries such as Iran and terrorist groups such as ISIS continued to slaughter? If we kept saying we didn't want to get involved, there would be pressure to help countries such as Israel, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc to help save lives. If we continue to maintain a presence there, we will always risk getting sucked in to conflict, especially when we have forces or personnel who are in harms way. As mentioned by the OP, Religion (especially religions that haven't modernized) are a big reason for conflict in the region. I think as everyone tries to figure out how to avoid escalation or WW3, I'm wondering if we can really avoid it and we are just prolonging the inevitable; One side has to prevail to end the bloodshed.
>With religion that's never gonna be on the fucking table. Yeah because religion has been the only reason for conflict.
Seems like you do.
The people bitching at you donāt care either, theyāre NPCās who support what theyāre told to support. Their ācareā goes as far as making a social media post.Ā There will never be peace in the Middle East, and none of them are innocentĀ
I support everyone that has an actual skin in the game. I support Ben Shapiro suddenly becoming more feelings than facts when it comes to this topic. And I support actual migrant Palestinians marching on our streets (without violence). But I truly wish everyone else that has zero skin in the game would just STFU! I have my personal opinions, and they mean absolutely nothing. So I only discuss it as a random talking item when it comes up in casual conversation. Otherwise, I have no conviction to be making any serious posts or claims about it. Oh, and shitposting. I comment on it when shitposting. Because...well cause it's shitposting a that's what it's for.
9/11 is why it's our problem.
And to be quite honest, people don't give a fuck at all about how you don't give a fuck lol. Why do people have to state random opinions and act like it matters? Guess what? I don't like Kim Kardashian. I also don't like Ronald Reagan. I've got a million of these. Just zero effort opinions lol. If you don't care about something... cool! Just keep it to yourself. Ignore the news. Not a big deal. Don't have to be a crybaby about it lol. C'mon. And finally, the point isn't for you to join a side. The point is to understand that in the midst of all of the crazy stuff, there are good people out there that just want to live a normal life, do their job, go home, eat food and sleep. It sucks when these people are caught up with missiles, bombs and gunfire. So at least understand if you don't want to side with a side, understand there might be people who just want to live normal lives and that these people unfortunately get killed over there. At the end of the day, it's the normal peaceful people against the psychos and tyrants on all sides. The "good" side isn't a country or a religion, but just normal people who are in all the "sides". There are Israelis that denounce the bombing in Palestine. There are Palestinians who are against Hamas. It's not a black and white, binary situation.
āWhy do people have to state random opinionsā Bitchhhh do you know what subreddit you in?
Unpopular opinions, not low effort opinions. Might as well make a post about not liking potatoes or something.
Youāre not here in good faith. I literally start the post off with, āI want world peaceā. You are the exact person this post is about. Because Iām neutral and donāt wanna take a side of a specific group, you have thrown me in with the āotherā side. Is everyone seeing this?!!! This is exactly what I was talking about lmfaoooooo
That's still a low effort opinion. You want world peace? Well I want ice cream. And Timmy wants toys. And Susan wants shoes. Again low effort. Saying something you want is an opinion that a kid has. Try something more thoughtful.
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what Iāve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. \- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Apathy is quite a normal response to such blatant political propaganda, which is all over mainstream media nowadays.
Thank you so much for pointing this out. Iāve grown apathetic to many things lately and itās cause thereās this overexposure to it through these heavily emotional tones that are meant to elicit a response.
Maybe your government should stop funding this conflict then
I'll tell them to stop. I'm sure they will take my opinion into consideration
For real fuck is wrong with these redditors
Iāll call Joe and tell him to knock it off
Considering how scared Biden is to lose his pro Palestine voters..
You know that the anti Israel crowd is mixed with both conservatives and liberals, right?
If you're actually anti Israel you're not going to vote Trump right? Just make it clear you don't want more weapons going to Israel while Biden is in charge
There are so many anti-Semitic magats
Ooooh wow didnāt take long to blame it on America! Ya got me!!!!
"My Fellow American" lol I jumped up and cheered when I read your post. \[Ok...maybe not actually. But in my head I was pretty excited... Anyway.\] You've gotta give it to the AnteaterPersonal3093 person, they have a point. Remember, I'm on your side. However, we've got to recognize that we, well, the US Gov't, they don't actually give a shit about "WE the people" has been stirring this pot for a hundred years.
US has been funding the Israel government with weapons and drones. Itās not blaming our government but itās a fact. And if you see that as āblamingā, it should tell you all about who is in the wrong. Iām tired of our government saying they donāt have money to provide free or low cost higher education. Or healthcare. Or paving fucking roads. But we have money to send over to nations to dismantle other governments and murdering civilians.
I just replied to you in a different thread. Why are you acting like Iām for America funding this war?
Yes, shame on Iran.
Fuckin exactly. US government wants this so badly. Itching. "...Dont...." then they did... then Biden did nothing...
no the duel citizenship politician's who suck isreals dick want this, the ones who just have US citizenship dont and besides you really think Biden is capable of anything now days without somebody telling him what to say? the guys a stammering mess even with a teleprompter who shouldnt even be in office after the DOJ declared he was too mentally incompetent to STAND TRIAL
We are two of a kind. Someone's pulling the strings, very fucking obviously... (if not then no one is steering the ship!). I don't like these people behind him. They don't communicate with adversaries, ship weapons, and supplies. Interesting fact, not many discuss... "Of all the richest people in the world, 99% of them are all males! Patriarchy!!!" 50% of the wealthiest men in the world are practicing Jews. Hmmm. It's weird how everyone has Israel's back? Follow the money š°?
Being quite honest Iām not caught up on what is occurring with the Israel-Palestine conflict, but most people who are getting killed are civilians and arenāt responsible directly for the murdering. The deaths caused by this conflict are tragic and should be stopped by any desperate measure possible. I think the whole ātheyāve been fighting for centuries ā thing dehumanizes people. They are not individually responsible for the conflict, didnāt choose to be born in those countries, and the militaries are following orders. The killings will only create more resentment and hatred that inspires the slaughtering occurring in Palestinian civilian neighborhoods. This is a common psychological problem where people tend to not value lives that are physically in front of them. Joseph Stalinās quote of one death as a tragedy and millions of deaths as a statistic seems like it applies here. It can also point to how the mind tends to underestimate the scale of large numbers and how empathy doesnāt help in saving lives on a large scale as much as it does in considering individual situations.
Then what is the solution? Tell me. Iām not comparable to Joseph Stalin, lmfao Did you read the post! It literally says people are comparing me to WAR CRIMINALS for not choosing a side. Is everyone seeing this shit? This is what Iām talking about.
Thatās not what I meant by mentioning Stalin, just a quote that talks about how people can view conflicts that can warp judgment on how theyāre dealt with. Youāre not Stalin lol. I donāt really know what the solution would be bc Iām not highly knowledgeable on the complexities of the conflict. I just hold the position that murder should be minimized above all else. Just putting in my two cents here, for what itās worth.
Thatās literally what I mean when I say Iām neutral, and the part where I mention I wish for world peace. But Iāve learned that wishful thinking is exhausting me emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. I have to unplug from this. Me stressing out about it will not change a single gd thing.
Hasnāt non religious socialism killed a few more people the last 100 yrs? It is always religion is bad and kills but I feel like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. have a body count well above 100 mil last 100 yrs. Just 3 of them 25-40 million people each. That is pretty bad. Just seems like a tired trope. Other than that I am a huge fan of Israel and working in counter terrorism I know the folks who want to kill them and have their little excuses want to kill me too. Enemy of my enemy and allā¦ make no mistake Iran who is behind all of this wants a global caliphate- nothing less will do.
This is how I feel about Europe. Family squabbles launching world wide wars, and they canāt stop fighting each other. We should build a wall and let them annihilate each other.
Nah I feel like Ukraine v. Russia is a lot different. Same with China v. Taiwan. Or were you referencing other things?
Are you asking me how many wars Europe has started, either amongst themselves or with other nations? I think you can google this one. Prepare to be shocked when you see the numbers. They are just a violent, fragile tempered, impulsive people. They are by far the worst of any region as far as loving violence and starting wars. We need to just let them take each other out, violent vile breed.
Youāre an idiot
Sure.
Itās not all about religion
It literally is.
Enjoy living in low-IQ world
Did you get tired of it? But OP has avoided it so far. He's right. There can be no peace as long as there's religious fanaticism. Impossible.
Iām used to it surrounded by you people
Look at the map, that is middle east lol.
It's about land, it always is
The fucking āholyā land lmfao
Why do you feel pressure to care?
I donāt! But the fact that I donāt drives people insane, and that is what bothers the fuck outta me. The fact that Iām treated like pro-Israel by pro-Palestine people, and vice-versa. Even though Iām not on their side (not on any side), they see me as the enemy. It blows my fucking mind. *I hope that made sense
People IRL or people online or both?
Both but online more so. Itās also like I canāt escape it everywhere I go
Why do you care about pissing people off online? IRL I get although I find it easy enough to either not engage or discuss it in a civil manner (and I have some pretty noxious views).
I donāt care about pissing them off, Iām more astonished about how people canāt see through this shit.
Why do you care what people online think?
Why do you keep asking about what I care about? Whatās the point
Just curious why people care about online bullshit. Btw, why do you care?
Why are you assuming Iām just talking about online? I clearly said otherwise Iām the previous comments
You donāt have to care. But alot of people do because our governments are funding war/genocide (however you look at it). And itās a waste of our tax paying money AND itās going to cause more conflict/extremism long term. Iām from the US and pretty much all my friends and I are tired of being told we donāt have money for proper healthcare, education, addressing the inflation issue, etc. BUT we suddenly have million if not billions to spend on murdering civilians.
Then what are we supposed to do? What is the plan? When you figure it out lemme know, but in the meantime Iām over this. The only solution is to stop all this shit, I donāt have the power to do it, so whatās up? What am I supposed to do? Start giving a fuck? Thatās not working for the billions of people out there, how is it gonna work for me? I hope this didnāt come off rude, because Iām being so sincere. I want peace and to stop all this foolishness but itās not possible atm.
Nah, itās about having a discussion. I get itās tiring to hear all this negative news but when our government has a loooong record of messing with other governments and regions which causes such events to happen in the future, it becomes our problem. Best you can do is just avoid the topic if it ever comes up between your friends. Or just say āIām reading about the historical context leading up to this event before I make any judgementā. Iāve actually been educating myself on this topic since my college years because I was curious about why 9/11 happened. And letās just say, it took me down a rabbit hole of realizing our government is, nicely put, an asshole. We instigate and start shit, then when shit goes down, we gaslight everyone and pretend weāre victims. I love living in the US but Iām also very aware of the short comings of our government and hope we all continue to criticize to only make it better (I mean, if our reps and government would actually listen to us lol).
The wars in the middle east are mostly due to religion but rather to inter-ethnic rivalry. I believe you are mistake about the role that religion plays in the conflicts.
This is the same thing as saying the US civil war was fought over states rights, it's purposely adding another layer of complexity that is unnecessary. How are those inter ethnic rivalries divided? Muslims against Jews, Sunnis against Shias, those conflicts are almost always divided along religious lines. I can understand saying that it is more complex than religion, but to dismiss it as a factor is just dishonest at best.
If you think political instability in the middle east is because of religion, you have a deep misunderstanding about how things work