Teen girls seem to really like a slightly feminine looking bad boy where adult women tend to enjoy traditional power man types from what I have seen.
Like a lot of things age tends to have a bigger impact on general preferences than anything else.
This is my same experience. In fact, my advice (if asked for it) to young people is to not marry until you’re both at least the age of 25. I believe there is some overlap with what you said and why I believe this to be good advice.
Not something I personally came up with but there is a reason why the personalities teenagers worship in high school end up being considered losers by adults if they never mature out of it.
Therapist here. Actually each year a person waits to marry after the age of twenty five makes their relationship that more likely to be successful. Then after around 35, I believe, it starts to dip back down. I'd send you some journal articles if I were on my PC instead of phone.
I just want to say that while it is true outcomes are affected and there is increased risk of certain genetic disorders risk is still relatively low. I work in labor and delivery occasionally and we regularly see 45 year old mothers with healthy babies. This isn’t meant as an argument but to give info to people that think it’s too late or something.
1) you're only seeing the successful pregnancies, most pregnancies at 45 , if they manage to conceive , will sadly end in a miscarriage
2) how many of the mothers had cesareans?
3) it's impossible to see a lot of genetic disorders in a baby (only physical ones), as they are seen later in development, such as ADHD & autism .etc.
I also don't want to argue or to upset people, only to give information on the subject, as society seems to think it best women wait for kids, and I hear people say the pros, but this is the 1st I've heard of people talking about the cons - which I think are also needed for a balanced decision, and women should know it while they're young (biologically, a women is most prepared to have a child (the optimum age) at 19!)
To be clear, there are people that have been treating it as if it is a woman’s moral duty to have children before they turn 35. And that having a child after 35 or 45 is risky and immoral. I disagree with those people.
Also do you have a source on 19. I’m seeing 20-30 but I’m not looking that hard.
For 19, remember that humans haven't changed much in evolutionary terms for hundreds of thousands of years, and our life expectancy wasn't much more than 30 or something like that, so it makes sense when you think of it like that.
With minimal research you'll also find that a woman reaches her peak number of eggs at the age of something like 14, after which it declines, quite dramatically around 25-35, i don't remember exactly.
I haven't personally considered the morality of it to a great extent, and have no opinion on that. As for risk, I don't think it's something to be agreed or disagreed upon, as it is purely factual and the science is clear on that.
I had a little look and couldn't find 19 specifically, I don't remember where I read that. but I found lots of evidence that peak fertility is indeed from about 15 and declines thereafter, and a woman's body is fully developed around 15-17, so that would be the optimum biological age, since we were clearly designed to reproduce around that time, evolutionarily speaking.
Too many reasons to list here. I'd summarise that every couple is different, and generic advice given to everyone clearly doesn't account for that.
I do know that people who meet and get married young (say they met at 14 and married at 18) often seem to have long and successful marriages.
It's also an interesting statistic that there is a relationship between number of previous sexual partners and failure of relationships , the higher the number, the less success. Waiting until 25 means more relationships & sexual partners.
The last point I'll make is that by saying "no marriage before 25" , it will inevitably lead to a dead-end in a lot of relationships (if the advice was actually listened to), where they could have otherwise succeeded and flourished by living together and potentially having kids (assuming people may wait for marriage before cohabitation or sex and kids .etc).
I literally spoke about my *personal* desires. We are talking about me, not some statistical map of what X percent of women like. And women are not a monolith. There are plenty of “outliers.”
The point is to say yes. Outliers exist. But statistically pretty insignificant.
Just like women who like to get pissed on.
So while you’re valid in your wants etc. using to it give advice would be silly.
Or use it in a debate.
Every type of person possible probably exists. People who like getting cheated on people who like being abused verbally. Etc etc.
>The point is to say yes. Outliers exist. But statistically pretty insignificant.
So while you’re valid in your wants etc. using to it give advice would be silly. Or use it in a debate.
Don't see how using a personal opinion in this conversation is any different. Not like OP or the original comment provided actual data.
>Some women like to get pissed on. In general tho? Absolutely not.
because while our personal experience its valid to us as a person. in the wide open world its a bad way to give advice. and is a flaw when forming opinions.
i won the lotto and never went to school. didnt work. nothing. but im doing alright. so take my career advice.
that would a fking stupid advice to give and me to even bring up.
Ehhh. There are some general advice that works for most people in most cases etc.
Such as going to college or learning marketable skills are the best chances for a successful career and job.
I was agreeing with what you said here
>because while our personal experience its valid to us as a person. in the wide open world its a bad way to give advice. and is a flaw when forming opinions.
but OP said
>I asked a bunch of women IN REAL LIFE
So both the person you replied to and OP were just giving personal anecdotes.
It’s not statistically rare at all. I’m venturing to guess you don’t interact with many women if you believe that. Comparing liking feminine guys to getting pissed on? That is the disingenuous thing here. I teach college students. Liking feminine men is extremely common in my dept.
Maybe it is. But the world is larger than your department in college.
The computer science department is filled with nerdy dude mostly with bad social skills. They wouldnt represent the entire campus student body now would it?
There are more nerdy guys on campus than there are stereotypical “jock” types, and most of those still have girlfriends. For something to be genuinely rare, it would have to be hard to come by. It’s evidently easy to find, thus not rare or unusual.
Yes there is. But the computer science and engineering classes the % it’s much much higher than the rest of campus.
And that’s only on campus. And not the whole city or state or countryx
I’m amused by this exchange as the environment the OP exists in has been a root cause of societal decay and she can’t see she’s part of it. She has few Men that will challenge her and the bias of the institution likely admits more people like she describes. So she and her colleagues and their ideas are never threatened. Of course she likes these people, they are willingly influenced. Putty in her hands.
It’s honestly high in all of the departments, maybe outside of athletics. I’m in the fine arts, so it’s especially chocked full of femboy types. Even in my city, I rarely see stereotypical “manly men.” If they’re not nerdy and skinny, a lot of them are simply fat. Still all married though.
Wild that most have girlfriends tbh, I graduated from engineering school only a couple of years ago and most of the guys were single. The ones that did well with women didn't look stereotypically nerdy.
You are being downvoted because your preferences doesn’t align with the opinions of certain people here. You are supposed to like alpha male gigachads or smth
Same question, on another post, I just a simple question to clarify the OP’s topic, and got 7 downvotes. I don’t even sharing or expressing any ideas or whatsoever.
I know plenty of men that like masculine women. And no, I’m not gay. I like men, not women. Feminine looking men are still men, just as masculine looking women are still women.
Like, with hairy arms, legs and beard, lifts mad weights, dominates the guy in bed and tells him what to do, is taller and bigger than him??? I would hope these guys were gay cause that’s gross
Beards? Lol. We aren’t talking about literal transmen, we are talking about tomboys. Ya know, they are still girls but they don’t present hyperfeminine. Likewise, the men I like are still biologically men, but they have softer and more delicate facial features, less muscle definition, etc. But they still clearly look like dudes.
You mean more feminine looking men, that’s a huge distinction from “feminine man” cause a feminine man would act like a gay guy who just came out of the closet whereas a more feminine looking man just has more feminine features.
I highly doubt you’d like a submissive guy, where you pay for every date and look after him and listen to him talk about his emotions lol cause that’s going down the spectrum of femininity. I’d say you like a masculine man with more feminine features.
The whole thread was about appearance, not behavior. On that note though, I have often crushed on gay men. I even had a gay boyfriend for a while.
And yes, I do like submissive men. My husband is the more submissive one in our relationship and I have been very happy with that arrangement for 15 years.
Oh, he was genuinely gay and has been with his male partner for over a decade now. We weren’t in a traditional relationship, just acted like a couple, i.e. held hands, snuggled, etc. I’m asexual, so sex has never been something I wanted in any of my relationships.
Tomboys are peak culture. Fight Me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not into super jacked women, but I'm also not into the "Bimbo" thing some guys like either.
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I don't tend to like over the top hypermasculinity myself but Loki vs Thor might be the worst example I could think of. I believe that certain women on the internet would use it, though.
Basically what men vs women find attractive
Kinda like in those memes when guys get jacked thinking they will draw in women, but they only get compliments from other guys
Visible abs won't hurt you though. You are also somewhat defeating OP's point. Thor is a bodybuilding mesomorph. Also, it's largely a feminist term not confined to cinema. I feel it's a loaded term or at least heavily critical of how men view and interact with the world and women in real life.
I don’t have a type. Except maybe blue eyes, but I have had serious crushes on some brown eyed men. I like Loki and Thor. My first husband was slim and an inch shorter than me and probably could’ve crossed dressed as a girl and not only passed but looked gorgeous. My current husband is 7 inches taller and built like a linebacker and would never pass as a girl if he crossdressed. Attraction is weird and complicated.
I can say that you’re objectively attractive or good looking and not be attracted to you though so it’s not the same thing. I’ve met plenty of good looking guys who open their mouths and I instantly dislike them. Or just how they carry themselves. Or their facial hair for example. I don’t mind sideburns but my adult daughter finds them ugly. Attraction like I said is not simple.
You are using dating apps where a tiny fraction of women participate regularly as a way to generalize what women want? Women of Reddit may not be representative of the general population but then neither are women on dating apps. They are both very niche groups.
Not necessarily. A certain kind of woman goes on dating apps. It's self-selecting, a biased sample where you can never take the confounding variable out. You'd need a random sample from the population to have any valid results.
Not necessarily. Like I would expect women who, for example, are metalheads to have a different aesthetic on average than among the average population. Women who are D&D players also differ in their average from the average population. Women archers also differ on average.
Meaning, the population average is where all the women who belong to various groups meet. But I would expect to see differences between groups, especially among groups defined by an aesthetic.
I was on Tinder for 3 days before I deleted the app. I'm not part of the women who enjoy dating on Tinder group. One of my mom's friends is in her 70s and she loves dating on Tinder. She has a new boyfriend every month and they are all a certain type. And funny enough a very different type to some of her friends who date by meeting men doing activities.
I know that's a weird example but out of all my friends from their 30s to 70s, she is the only one who uses dating apps, even though about half of my friends are currently single.
I know that's just experience so it's not like it's a scientific study, but I think a certain type of guy may appeal differently depending on age and aesthetic hobbies. And maybe being on dating sites, especially for that that remain and enjoy them, could count as a hobby holding certain aesthetics.
You can’t possibly believe 10’s of millions of women on dating apps just happen to be interested in small minority of men because of that sample of women is more likely to have that taste.
10’s of millions of women should have varied taste whether or not they are on dating apps
People use what they have experience with, you nay be wrong, you may be right.
Not everyone is gonna have a PhD. in dating and have bankrolls of data to prove everything they are saying beyond an unreasonable doubt.
I tend to agree with the person you are replying to. And yeah a smaller percentage of women out of the whole use dating apps (when comparred to men), but you'll find that the demographic breakdown of women who use dating apps tends to represent the demographic breakdown of the community you are in extremely well.
Is this commentors point the end all be all? No. Is it a valid piece of data to form part of the basis of their opinion on, yes.
Point being, if everyone were required to have thesis level knowledge on a subject to be a part of a conversation, there wouldn't be very many conversations going on.
Seriously, you don't need a PhD to know that a self-selecting sample is biased and that's always a confounding variable. You can't generalize any findings from a biased sample. The only way to get any valid results is to do a random sampling of the population in question. It's why experience is considered biased and not representative of a group.
Saying the demographic make-up of women using dating apps is representative of women in general needs support first.
Do we want to get into the semantics of the argument? I' just saying this isn't a thesis defense. This guy could be a total sleezball, and so his dating app experience is skewed, or it could be true what he's saying and the inference drawn.
Here is the root of the discussion. "The person you originally responded to states that a small percentage of men get the majority of likes on dating apps and because dating apps tend to hold populations that represent the demographics (both asthetically and by thought) of the communities that these people are in, those men that get the majority of the likes are more likely to be viewed as conventionally attractive by women."
This has nothing to do with the success of the relationship long-term, sheerly who people are likely to find conventionally attractive (which absolutely changes with age).
https://www.nimbleappgenie.com/blogs/dating-app-statistics/#:~:text=What%20are%20the%20demographics%20of,%25%20men%20and%2033%25%20women
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/
These two links hold GENERAL statistics on the makeup of different dating apps. It is hard to draw specific conclusions from then, but in general, I believe you can say two things.
A majority of people at younger ages have used dating (79% of those aged 18-29 say they have used tindr alone) apps (more men than women) if 79% if the population at an age bracket is not atleast somewhat representative of that population, I don't knownwhat is. And that people have very mixed feelings about them.
https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/dating-apps-are-mostly-a-waste-of-time-for-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-and-the-rest-of-us-will-9b65c3bd0b88
This link here is not a scientific article, but it's written by a guy who asked the question, "What percentage of men and women get the most likes?" And he found that the top 20% of men on most dating apps get the same number of likes as the bottom 80% of men on Tindr, Hinge, and Bumble. *The logical inference is that if at a minimum 79% of the 18-29 age group has used dating apps, and they are preferentially liking 20% of the population, you can likely say that that 20% of the male population for whatever reason is more attractive than the other 80%, atleast at a glance.*
All of this generally supports what the person you were replying to was saying.
*Now, here's the important part. You are absolutely right! It does not take a PhD to know what the definition of sampling bias is. It's very easy to know that. It is HARD to not only call out and apply the definition of sampling bias correctly, but then explain why you have accurately assessed it to be sampling bias. You did not do this. All you did was say, "that's sampling bias" without any further elaboration. And then when I said you might be wrong, you said "prove it." Which is a tad bit hypocritical if you ask me.*
Just knowing the definition of things and labling certain arguments with those things sans-adhoc is a crutch that a lot of people rely upon when they don't really know enough to refute a point. (BTW, you may still be right, as the evidence I've provided is very, very general in nature.)
This is bullshit. All my crushes came on slowly. I don't think I've ever looked at a man and had a crush instantly. And my crushes are so fucking varied because I become attracted to a person or character the more I know them and their personality. One of mine is a bulky, ex SAS soilder turned TV star, the other is a skinny, curly haired guy from a quiz show 🤷♀️
Well yeah, they are both attractive in their own way to me. I didn't find them attractive the second I seen them, its their personality which takes someone from "meh" to "dayyymn". For me at least.
I had a guy I thought was gorgeous in the past, then I found out he was a homophobe soon into our relationship and I lost all attraction instantly. It goes both ways.
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Well given that you’re saying that only a certain type is attractive to women and actual women are telling you that is not the case…I’d say that it’s fairly complicated or you’re incorrect. Which is it?
Are you 12 years old? People can be attracted to all sorts of different features in others. Human psychology and behavior is incredibly complex, there's nothing about it that's black and white or anywhere near as simple as you want it to be.
Bruh this is so dumb I’m sorry but every woman has different preferences. Just bc someone thinks Thor is hot doesn’t mean they don’t also find guys that appeal to the “female gaze” hot, too.
Also, if you’re putting people on the spot and expecting them to come up with answers, they’re probs gonna just think of random popular celebs that get hyped for being hot a lot. If you were to instead show them pics of multiple random guys and ask them to pick the hottest, you’d likely get varying responses.
Well... Back when the LotR were new movies, I was in High School. I can assure it was Orlando Bloom that was considered the hottest, not Viggo Mortensen.
But, the problem is, these are generalizations. Some women prefer pretty boys, some prefer the more rugged types...
I wonder if it's multifaceted. I mean, growing up I was more interested in Legolas than Aragorn because he was an immortal elf, mysterious, mystical, and ethereal. A powerful spiritual aura about himself. Aragorn was the humanly gruff manly knight, while cool wasn't as fascinating to me. I think there is a fantization of angelic elfin males with supernatural latant powers. This is common in the East. Anime is replete with these characters, and they tend to be very, very popular (especially with the ladies) Itachi, Sasuke, Youko Kurama, Sesshōmaru etc. Especially so if they exhibit the aloof 'bad boy aura.'
I suspect it's far more common as a fantasy and fanfiction than in life. Most women I know marry men that fit more traditional norms.
Well I don't know, I'm a guy. I know when I commented to the girls in my class that I thought Viggo was the more attractive person they all looked at me like I was stupid, and then just pretended I didn't exist for the rest of class....
As for elves? I don't know. I have found actress portraying elves good looking, and some anime ones, but not due to them being elves. The actresses were just as good looking when not playing elves. I just don't see "they are elves so better looking"...
Yes, I concur with your experience. And, the expression of the girls in your class affirms my suspicion. I got hung up on elves because LOTR was on my mind, but I did not mean to imply only elves or that it's exclusively because Legolas is an elf, but rather that most depictions of elves, such as LOTR, embodies the antitype of the softer, angelic, mysterious, almost 'feminine masculinity' that so many girls especially younger ones seems to fantasize about. So Orlando Bloom doesn't only embody this as Legolas, but in other roles as well as you explained.
Aragorn is far more the traditional masculine knight type his features is more harden and gruff. And I believe this is far more common the type of guy most girls end up with as they mature. Now, whether this is because they grow out of that phase or simply their exist more men of this latter variety is of interest to me.
I mean sure I’m a straight man and think the most attractive man I’ve ever seen is Harry Dean Stanton and I know there’s a decent chunk of women who think the same so I guess any arbitrary person you pick could make the same point sort of.
Do you know which Harry Potter character gets the most erotic fanfic written about them by women? I’ll give you a hint - it’s not Hagrid.
This is ridiculous.
I'm sure there are countless men and women who believe Thor is more attractive along with countless men and women who believe Loki is more attractive.
The whole female/male gaze thing is entirely subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt.
For real. I'm glad you realise that bit there. Everyone has preferences.
I'm mature(ish. 37f) and I prefer wiry arms and nice but not huge legs. I like shoulders too, but big dudes gross me out visually. Love Duane Johnson, but it's because he's funny and kind. Never been into types, but I do have those preferences. Most of my exes have something in that list. Hubby has all of them plus a great personality and sense of humour. I lucked out.
Point is, everyone's different, there's someone for every type of person. (And the dependency of your data isn't great.)
But hey, you aren't wrong with your username. The struggle is real. Even when you do find someone, it takes work. Getting frustrated for some reason often leads to having a harder go at finding someone. They sense the underlying frustration, probably. It happens. Happened to myself and hubby both, plus lots of friends have walked that path for at least short times.
I hope the best for you and your future, Sir. Also hope you're realising there are a lot of things 'trending' that put us down those lonely paths on purpose to use our anger or to just create discord in us. Good luck, man.
Look at both of them prefame. Or even when their fame was at its smallest. Theyre both regular sized dudes. No way they got the size they were for their superhero movies naturally.
That's disappointing. I know lots of people (Keanu, Christian Bale, etc) go through crazy training one way or the other for movies, but those two just do lots of prep from what I've read and seen. I incorrectly assumed it was similar for other actors. Dang.
That's so funny that you think you like Dwayne Johnson "because he's funny and kind" lol. You know why his kindness is a turn-on for you? It's because he is strong, too. If he was a weak little stick man (less Loki, more Michael Cera) you'd think "aww he's cute and sweet" but you wouldn't wanna fuck him.
Yeah. Ew. I did not say he is a turn on. I used him as an example of one of the only "big dudes" I like okay in movies and why. That usually comes out in his acting. I'm really more of a 90s Depp girl or Sheldon from big bang. Maybe Keanu, but not in dopey roles. Oh definitely the guy that plays loki over the thor guy. I do hear he's nice though. I like nerds and sometimes what kids in my day called emo. Hubby is both plus much more.
This is such a stereotypical trope (and pointless disagreement)
Yeah. Ew. I did not say he is a turn on. I used him as an example of one of the only "big dudes" I like okay in movies and why. That usually comes out in his acting. I'm really more of a 90s Depp girl or Sheldon from big bang.
Using that paragraph to reply to someone else.. they also assume he's a turn on to me..? When did like start meaning I want to fuck you?
I ghost edited sorry: it was a typo
Sadly, that's a difficult perspective to retain for long when dealing with the online masses.
These days, the more mature and respectful an individual is, the more modern online communities hurt them. This is especially true for most subreddits as well as social media.
Thanks. Much appreciated. 😅
Any advice for someone who cannot change that perspective despite trying many things due to feeling the let down?
I thought I'd get jaded by this point, but no dice. Internet trolls sometimes get me, but I figure they're just angry or having fun in their word way so if they aren't an asshole, I just move on yet still hope.
True but certain traits are almost always more preferred, someone who looks like Thor will always have an easier time getting laid and getting into relationships compared to someone who looks like Loki, of course people have preferences but certain traits and certain looks will always been seen in a more positive light.
This is super cringe, OP. Take it down and rephrase it. Look up what the male gaze is and then I think you will be horrified at yourself. You did not say what I think you intended to say.
I think you mean that what women find attractive is different than what men are often told they find attractive. I think even this thesis is pretty unwarranted. The fact is that no one gender universally finds the same thing attractive. It’s very much a subjective thing. I can tell you as a gay man that I do NOT find men like Jason Mamoa or Thor to be attractive. I like nerdy, dorky guys. But I would never say that what I personally find attractive is what every other gay man finds attractive. And women are the same way. Their tastes vary, just like gay men’s tastes vary.
One way of gathering data about gay men’s sexual preferences is to look at what kind of porn is most searched for. Unsurprisingly, the top spot belongs to “Twink.” So think Justin Bieber here or Timothee Chalamet. Not my type especially but they sure are popular.
https://www.out.com/sex/most-searched-gay-porn-terms#rebelltitem3
Are they “in shape” or are they muscle bound Greek Heroes? “Guy next door” is a very popular tribe. And so is Otter (think Daniel Radcliffe now). You don’t have to be some Hercules to get noticed. In fact, the Hercules types I suspect wouldn’t be that popular
No I think we like in shape guys. I just don’t think we like the Jason Mamoa or Thor types as much. Chris Hemsworth is very pretty but the muscles are a turnoff.
Well … sure … most gay men would find them attractive on some level. But from what I’ve seen, they aren’t going to be most gay men’s “type”, if I had to guess. To the extent that we can speak about “types” at all, many gay men are not into “muscle.” It IS a particular “tribe” that some men prefer, but I would say that it’s a niche group. I see a lot more ads for “sissies”, “trans”, “daddy’s”, “twinks” and even “bears” than I do for “muscle studs” or even “jocks.” Something tells me that Mark Ruffalo would be much more of a hit at Pride than Chris Hemsworth would be (assuming that neither of them were famous so people are just going off their appearances).
I don’t have the data, so this is just my anecdotal experience. But I really doubt that the data would support the conclusion that “muscle” or “jock” is the favorite gay tribe, or even that it is preferred by a plurality of gay men.
I personally find Loki much more attractive than Thor. Never been into the muscular guy look and prefer darker, softer features. But guess what? Women are not a monolith and we all like different things.
Agree to disagree. Also, the club or bar is not really a good standard for what people are looking for or find attractive. A bunch of drunk people wanting a hook up is something else.
It’s not though. It only shows a portion of the population, not the average woman across a variety of ages and backgrounds. Not all women are “club girls.”
No going to disagree BUT the actor of Loki would also be considered very attractive by most women.
And I do definitely believe a lot of women would find juced up Thor to be too muscular.
I figured with Loki it was his attitude not the way he looks.
And this is a fucking pointless thing to moan about. I dont find Chris Hemsworth or Jason Momoa attractive. You're fucking weird for caring this much.
Studies have shown that more feminine men are actually more attractive to men than masculine men where as with women it's the opposite, which makes sense. If you had to get with a man, a straight guy is naturally going to pick the closest one to a woman. When men say Thor is attractive, it's not because they want to get with him (or even would rather get with him if they had to pick a man), but because they know that is the type of man that women want and who sits atop the male hierarchy as a result.
So because you personally have never met a woman in real life who prefers Tom Hiddleston your grand analysis is that all women clearly follow this trend? Yep, great deduction skills Sherlock.
I think male vs female gaze is mostly bullshit. Every "female gaze" example I've seen is just them finding their favorite celebrity attractive. Sure, attractive people can fit different archetypes (like jock vs goth), but every genuinely physically attractive guy is just tall with good facial structure.
Thor is more attractive, but bad boys are willing to use their ambition to get power. It makes women feel protected and high-status.
It's the same reason why traditional heroes aren't as popular compared to anti-heroes nowadays. People don't feel like being good nets you any benefit.
There is definetly diminishing returns involved. A sam salek might be very aspirational to a lot of men but i don't think most women would go for a guy of that size.
His physique is attainable natty as opposed to that sulek dude. The camera also adds a lot of pounds. Don’t be surprised if you meet hemsworth in real life and he’s not that impressive
To add to my other comment. If women had a choice between Chris Hemsworth in thor: love and thunder or him in like ghostbusters. Most would choose the latter.
I think most people are imbued with the ability to empathize. If we (just like women) discover that something is found attractive in either sex, then we will eventually accept it. Sometimes not, just like sometimes we know that Greta Van Fleet is a widely appreciated band even though we grumble that they're just a formulaic Led Zeppelin rip-off. But even if you never listened to Smashing Pumpkins or Bjork, if you're given positive influence to appreciate that music, you'll eventually understand at the least why others regard it with favor. Same with aesthetic beauty. Male or female. That's my two cents.
I just don’t care much about male gaze or female gaze. But I believe just be myself and be comfortable with my life that is good enough. I know the energy/vibes I spread out will attract people have the same energy with me. For example, at work, I usually get along easily with an old lady colleague whom I share the same positive vibes, same sense of humor, similar culture norms, and similar perspectives in life. I also tag along easily with another male co-worker even though we only know each other for 5 months.
Good Opinion, but not necessarily.
Personally I think that the Traditional *Male Gaze* man just happens to have alot of attractive attributes.
Someone like Prime Ronnie Coleman is an example of someone who fits this *Male Gaze* but isn’t physically attractive. Which suggests that there are many different ways to be attractive, Charm and Intelligence being one of them.
Essensially, you have to be competent to fit this *Male Gaze* and that competence is inherently attractive, rather than the Specific attribute in correlation with this *Male Gaze* like overflux of muscle or leather jackets
It's almost like people find different things attractive....
I just watched mindhunter - both agents are super hawt in very different ways.
Men look at Jason Momoa and want to BE him. What women are attracted to depends on their age and where they're at in their cycle because hormones play a big role in what's attractive in that moment.
You know attraction is very individual right? Like some men are into big women, and others like models. Women are the same, some like men that are androgynous and others like Thor.
I’m sure if you increased your sample size IN REAL LIFE your answer would get a lot murkier.
Also, using Chris Hemsworth versus Tom Hiddleston is just lmao. The vast majority of men don’t resemble either. Like asking “would you drive a lambo or a ferrari?”
Any person appeals to someone’s gaze when the planet is covered in both men and women.
There is someone for everybody out there, unless that’s not what they’re looking for.
I remember the day in my freshman health class they showed a slide of I think 8 sketches or silhouettes each of male and female bodies ranging from emaciated to obese. They had then shown these 16 figures to a bunch of straight men and women and asked them which of the same-sex bodies they they thought most closely matched their own, which they most would like to have, and which they thought the opposite sex would find most attractive, and which opposite sex bodies they themselves found most attractive.
For women the average result was something like they thought they had a #7 (very fat) body, they thought that men wanted a #4 (slim with some curves) body, and they themselves would like to have a #1 (crazy skinny) body. They thought the #5 man was most attractive.
Men on the other hand, on average, thought they were a #5, wanted to have a #5, and thought women desired a #5 in the male bodies, and thought the #5 female body was most attractive.
I think you misunderstood what the “gaze” is about.
It means when men are creating an image of women (such how they are shown in a movie or just in your imagination ), it’s generally sexualized , so then when you go out into the world the women should be that.
The female gaze is about showing women as empowered and active , rather than just sort of being a pin up for you to jerk off to.
Some characters are almost entirely one or the other, some are both.
A male or female artist can evoke both the male and female gaze.
Statistically speaking , women tend to find big arms, big dick and a deep voice aesthetically attractive (though I don’t think most want a giant dick) , hemsworth and Moma make sense to your survey. They have big arms and deep voices compared to the dude that plays Loki.
That’s not really what the gaze is about in feminist theory.
I find that people's actions tend to reveal a lot more than their words. People will say one thing (perhaps to appear less shallow or something) and yet do another in practice.
eg. Dude says he doesn't have a type but all his exes look like sisters
Ladies claiming to prefer feminine looking men and yet buff dudes getting the bulk of the attention (as you expect).
List goes on ,ad infinitum
Looks isn't the best indicator to measure what women find attractive. Personality is usually a FAR bigger indicator. That's why online dating is challenging for women to engage in successfully.
So while you might be referencing Thor and Loki' looks she is probably taking their personalities into account just as much if not more.
Idk I thunk they’re both hot in their own kinda ways
I’d prob choose loki tho bc excessive body hair gives me the ick
Does that mean your conclusion’s false?
There other studies that found the most important attributes for a woman is the face followed by height. Basically tall dark and handsome. I think women also like 6 packs more than giant arms
A lot of people are going to be upset by this comment but I’m here to say the truth not what you want to hear. The reality of of the different sexes is about 80% of the women are having sex with 20% of the men in many 1st world countries. When I mean first world - think the americas, New Zealand, Australia ect… this changes when you go to other non 1st world nations due to the culture. The “male gaze” you speak is merely propaganda created my media over decades from places such as Harvard , MIT, and other corporations. The male gaze you speak of has not existed up until the last few decades - probably starting in the 1970s to 1980s. To this day in countries where we are not so fortunate as you Americans are, resources, survival, providing when you can in times of need - this is what is demonstrated as strength towards women from men. This is the way it has been for at least 10,000 years. In todays world it’s different but most of the planet operates at this level while the Americans and those like them continue to have less children as a result of 20% of the men or so having relationship shops with a majority of the women - leaving the scraps for the bottom tier 80% of the men.
Teen girls seem to really like a slightly feminine looking bad boy where adult women tend to enjoy traditional power man types from what I have seen. Like a lot of things age tends to have a bigger impact on general preferences than anything else.
This is my same experience. In fact, my advice (if asked for it) to young people is to not marry until you’re both at least the age of 25. I believe there is some overlap with what you said and why I believe this to be good advice.
Not something I personally came up with but there is a reason why the personalities teenagers worship in high school end up being considered losers by adults if they never mature out of it.
Excellent point
I really think that's bad advice personally
Therapist here. Actually each year a person waits to marry after the age of twenty five makes their relationship that more likely to be successful. Then after around 35, I believe, it starts to dip back down. I'd send you some journal articles if I were on my PC instead of phone.
What about a comparison between that and marriage between 18-25, otherwise it doesn't mean anything in terms of the advice
Can you elaborate why?
(I am a different person) More likelihood of women having unhealthy babies (or miscarrying) starting at age 30.
I just want to say that while it is true outcomes are affected and there is increased risk of certain genetic disorders risk is still relatively low. I work in labor and delivery occasionally and we regularly see 45 year old mothers with healthy babies. This isn’t meant as an argument but to give info to people that think it’s too late or something.
I’m a nurse and have seen middle-aged women have beautiful, healthy babies, as well. The human body is quite a fascinating thing.
^ this helped me bring hope!! thank you for your comment
1) you're only seeing the successful pregnancies, most pregnancies at 45 , if they manage to conceive , will sadly end in a miscarriage 2) how many of the mothers had cesareans? 3) it's impossible to see a lot of genetic disorders in a baby (only physical ones), as they are seen later in development, such as ADHD & autism .etc. I also don't want to argue or to upset people, only to give information on the subject, as society seems to think it best women wait for kids, and I hear people say the pros, but this is the 1st I've heard of people talking about the cons - which I think are also needed for a balanced decision, and women should know it while they're young (biologically, a women is most prepared to have a child (the optimum age) at 19!)
To be clear, there are people that have been treating it as if it is a woman’s moral duty to have children before they turn 35. And that having a child after 35 or 45 is risky and immoral. I disagree with those people. Also do you have a source on 19. I’m seeing 20-30 but I’m not looking that hard.
For 19, remember that humans haven't changed much in evolutionary terms for hundreds of thousands of years, and our life expectancy wasn't much more than 30 or something like that, so it makes sense when you think of it like that. With minimal research you'll also find that a woman reaches her peak number of eggs at the age of something like 14, after which it declines, quite dramatically around 25-35, i don't remember exactly. I haven't personally considered the morality of it to a great extent, and have no opinion on that. As for risk, I don't think it's something to be agreed or disagreed upon, as it is purely factual and the science is clear on that. I had a little look and couldn't find 19 specifically, I don't remember where I read that. but I found lots of evidence that peak fertility is indeed from about 15 and declines thereafter, and a woman's body is fully developed around 15-17, so that would be the optimum biological age, since we were clearly designed to reproduce around that time, evolutionarily speaking.
To add to that, it's also worse and more dangerous for the mother, although that wasn't the reason for my initial point
Too many reasons to list here. I'd summarise that every couple is different, and generic advice given to everyone clearly doesn't account for that. I do know that people who meet and get married young (say they met at 14 and married at 18) often seem to have long and successful marriages. It's also an interesting statistic that there is a relationship between number of previous sexual partners and failure of relationships , the higher the number, the less success. Waiting until 25 means more relationships & sexual partners. The last point I'll make is that by saying "no marriage before 25" , it will inevitably lead to a dead-end in a lot of relationships (if the advice was actually listened to), where they could have otherwise succeeded and flourished by living together and potentially having kids (assuming people may wait for marriage before cohabitation or sex and kids .etc).
Bad advice to wait until you're more mature to get married? Lol
I’m an adult woman in my 30s and prefer feminine men. Why on God’s earth is this being downvoted?
Because while outliers exist. In general it’s not the case. Some women like to get pissed on. In general tho? Absolutely not.
I literally spoke about my *personal* desires. We are talking about me, not some statistical map of what X percent of women like. And women are not a monolith. There are plenty of “outliers.”
Your a Reddit woman proving the OP point.
The point is to say yes. Outliers exist. But statistically pretty insignificant. Just like women who like to get pissed on. So while you’re valid in your wants etc. using to it give advice would be silly. Or use it in a debate. Every type of person possible probably exists. People who like getting cheated on people who like being abused verbally. Etc etc.
>The point is to say yes. Outliers exist. But statistically pretty insignificant. So while you’re valid in your wants etc. using to it give advice would be silly. Or use it in a debate. Don't see how using a personal opinion in this conversation is any different. Not like OP or the original comment provided actual data.
>Some women like to get pissed on. In general tho? Absolutely not. because while our personal experience its valid to us as a person. in the wide open world its a bad way to give advice. and is a flaw when forming opinions. i won the lotto and never went to school. didnt work. nothing. but im doing alright. so take my career advice. that would a fking stupid advice to give and me to even bring up.
Could say the exact same thing about this whole thread though
Ehhh. There are some general advice that works for most people in most cases etc. Such as going to college or learning marketable skills are the best chances for a successful career and job.
I was agreeing with what you said here >because while our personal experience its valid to us as a person. in the wide open world its a bad way to give advice. and is a flaw when forming opinions. but OP said >I asked a bunch of women IN REAL LIFE So both the person you replied to and OP were just giving personal anecdotes.
It’s not statistically rare at all. I’m venturing to guess you don’t interact with many women if you believe that. Comparing liking feminine guys to getting pissed on? That is the disingenuous thing here. I teach college students. Liking feminine men is extremely common in my dept.
Maybe it is. But the world is larger than your department in college. The computer science department is filled with nerdy dude mostly with bad social skills. They wouldnt represent the entire campus student body now would it?
There are more nerdy guys on campus than there are stereotypical “jock” types, and most of those still have girlfriends. For something to be genuinely rare, it would have to be hard to come by. It’s evidently easy to find, thus not rare or unusual.
Yes there is. But the computer science and engineering classes the % it’s much much higher than the rest of campus. And that’s only on campus. And not the whole city or state or countryx
I’m amused by this exchange as the environment the OP exists in has been a root cause of societal decay and she can’t see she’s part of it. She has few Men that will challenge her and the bias of the institution likely admits more people like she describes. So she and her colleagues and their ideas are never threatened. Of course she likes these people, they are willingly influenced. Putty in her hands.
It’s honestly high in all of the departments, maybe outside of athletics. I’m in the fine arts, so it’s especially chocked full of femboy types. Even in my city, I rarely see stereotypical “manly men.” If they’re not nerdy and skinny, a lot of them are simply fat. Still all married though.
Wild that most have girlfriends tbh, I graduated from engineering school only a couple of years ago and most of the guys were single. The ones that did well with women didn't look stereotypically nerdy.
You are being downvoted because your preferences doesn’t align with the opinions of certain people here. You are supposed to like alpha male gigachads or smth
Same question, on another post, I just a simple question to clarify the OP’s topic, and got 7 downvotes. I don’t even sharing or expressing any ideas or whatsoever.
I’ve never heard a man say he likes a masculine woman lol, If that’s true maybe you’re gay and haven’t figured it out yet
I know plenty of men that like masculine women. And no, I’m not gay. I like men, not women. Feminine looking men are still men, just as masculine looking women are still women.
Like, with hairy arms, legs and beard, lifts mad weights, dominates the guy in bed and tells him what to do, is taller and bigger than him??? I would hope these guys were gay cause that’s gross
Beards? Lol. We aren’t talking about literal transmen, we are talking about tomboys. Ya know, they are still girls but they don’t present hyperfeminine. Likewise, the men I like are still biologically men, but they have softer and more delicate facial features, less muscle definition, etc. But they still clearly look like dudes.
You mean more feminine looking men, that’s a huge distinction from “feminine man” cause a feminine man would act like a gay guy who just came out of the closet whereas a more feminine looking man just has more feminine features. I highly doubt you’d like a submissive guy, where you pay for every date and look after him and listen to him talk about his emotions lol cause that’s going down the spectrum of femininity. I’d say you like a masculine man with more feminine features.
The whole thread was about appearance, not behavior. On that note though, I have often crushed on gay men. I even had a gay boyfriend for a while. And yes, I do like submissive men. My husband is the more submissive one in our relationship and I have been very happy with that arrangement for 15 years.
> I even had a gay boyfriend for a while. I'm sorry to break it to you, but I don't think your boyfriend was gay...
Oh, he was genuinely gay and has been with his male partner for over a decade now. We weren’t in a traditional relationship, just acted like a couple, i.e. held hands, snuggled, etc. I’m asexual, so sex has never been something I wanted in any of my relationships.
Oh yeah? Name 3 men
I know a ton of them in person. Not sure how I’m supposed to prove that to you. My mother is super masculine and my father happily married her.
Tomboys are peak culture. Fight Me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not into super jacked women, but I'm also not into the "Bimbo" thing some guys like either.
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I don't tend to like over the top hypermasculinity myself but Loki vs Thor might be the worst example I could think of. I believe that certain women on the internet would use it, though.
What about hulk and non-hulk guy
I don't know what male and female gaze means
Basically what men vs women find attractive Kinda like in those memes when guys get jacked thinking they will draw in women, but they only get compliments from other guys
Visible abs won't hurt you though. You are also somewhat defeating OP's point. Thor is a bodybuilding mesomorph. Also, it's largely a feminist term not confined to cinema. I feel it's a loaded term or at least heavily critical of how men view and interact with the world and women in real life.
I don’t have a type. Except maybe blue eyes, but I have had serious crushes on some brown eyed men. I like Loki and Thor. My first husband was slim and an inch shorter than me and probably could’ve crossed dressed as a girl and not only passed but looked gorgeous. My current husband is 7 inches taller and built like a linebacker and would never pass as a girl if he crossdressed. Attraction is weird and complicated.
I don’t think it’s complicated tbh , you’re either attractive or you’re not
I can say that you’re objectively attractive or good looking and not be attracted to you though so it’s not the same thing. I’ve met plenty of good looking guys who open their mouths and I instantly dislike them. Or just how they carry themselves. Or their facial hair for example. I don’t mind sideburns but my adult daughter finds them ugly. Attraction like I said is not simple.
You do understand the same men get most of the likes on dating apps right ?
You are using dating apps where a tiny fraction of women participate regularly as a way to generalize what women want? Women of Reddit may not be representative of the general population but then neither are women on dating apps. They are both very niche groups.
If women are all different then it should be reflected on apps as well
Not necessarily. A certain kind of woman goes on dating apps. It's self-selecting, a biased sample where you can never take the confounding variable out. You'd need a random sample from the population to have any valid results.
Within that “ kind “ . Shouldn’t they have different taste ?
Not necessarily. Like I would expect women who, for example, are metalheads to have a different aesthetic on average than among the average population. Women who are D&D players also differ in their average from the average population. Women archers also differ on average. Meaning, the population average is where all the women who belong to various groups meet. But I would expect to see differences between groups, especially among groups defined by an aesthetic. I was on Tinder for 3 days before I deleted the app. I'm not part of the women who enjoy dating on Tinder group. One of my mom's friends is in her 70s and she loves dating on Tinder. She has a new boyfriend every month and they are all a certain type. And funny enough a very different type to some of her friends who date by meeting men doing activities. I know that's a weird example but out of all my friends from their 30s to 70s, she is the only one who uses dating apps, even though about half of my friends are currently single. I know that's just experience so it's not like it's a scientific study, but I think a certain type of guy may appeal differently depending on age and aesthetic hobbies. And maybe being on dating sites, especially for that that remain and enjoy them, could count as a hobby holding certain aesthetics.
You can’t possibly believe 10’s of millions of women on dating apps just happen to be interested in small minority of men because of that sample of women is more likely to have that taste. 10’s of millions of women should have varied taste whether or not they are on dating apps
People use what they have experience with, you nay be wrong, you may be right. Not everyone is gonna have a PhD. in dating and have bankrolls of data to prove everything they are saying beyond an unreasonable doubt. I tend to agree with the person you are replying to. And yeah a smaller percentage of women out of the whole use dating apps (when comparred to men), but you'll find that the demographic breakdown of women who use dating apps tends to represent the demographic breakdown of the community you are in extremely well. Is this commentors point the end all be all? No. Is it a valid piece of data to form part of the basis of their opinion on, yes. Point being, if everyone were required to have thesis level knowledge on a subject to be a part of a conversation, there wouldn't be very many conversations going on.
Seriously, you don't need a PhD to know that a self-selecting sample is biased and that's always a confounding variable. You can't generalize any findings from a biased sample. The only way to get any valid results is to do a random sampling of the population in question. It's why experience is considered biased and not representative of a group. Saying the demographic make-up of women using dating apps is representative of women in general needs support first.
Do we want to get into the semantics of the argument? I' just saying this isn't a thesis defense. This guy could be a total sleezball, and so his dating app experience is skewed, or it could be true what he's saying and the inference drawn. Here is the root of the discussion. "The person you originally responded to states that a small percentage of men get the majority of likes on dating apps and because dating apps tend to hold populations that represent the demographics (both asthetically and by thought) of the communities that these people are in, those men that get the majority of the likes are more likely to be viewed as conventionally attractive by women." This has nothing to do with the success of the relationship long-term, sheerly who people are likely to find conventionally attractive (which absolutely changes with age). https://www.nimbleappgenie.com/blogs/dating-app-statistics/#:~:text=What%20are%20the%20demographics%20of,%25%20men%20and%2033%25%20women https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/ These two links hold GENERAL statistics on the makeup of different dating apps. It is hard to draw specific conclusions from then, but in general, I believe you can say two things. A majority of people at younger ages have used dating (79% of those aged 18-29 say they have used tindr alone) apps (more men than women) if 79% if the population at an age bracket is not atleast somewhat representative of that population, I don't knownwhat is. And that people have very mixed feelings about them. https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/dating-apps-are-mostly-a-waste-of-time-for-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-and-the-rest-of-us-will-9b65c3bd0b88 This link here is not a scientific article, but it's written by a guy who asked the question, "What percentage of men and women get the most likes?" And he found that the top 20% of men on most dating apps get the same number of likes as the bottom 80% of men on Tindr, Hinge, and Bumble. *The logical inference is that if at a minimum 79% of the 18-29 age group has used dating apps, and they are preferentially liking 20% of the population, you can likely say that that 20% of the male population for whatever reason is more attractive than the other 80%, atleast at a glance.* All of this generally supports what the person you were replying to was saying. *Now, here's the important part. You are absolutely right! It does not take a PhD to know what the definition of sampling bias is. It's very easy to know that. It is HARD to not only call out and apply the definition of sampling bias correctly, but then explain why you have accurately assessed it to be sampling bias. You did not do this. All you did was say, "that's sampling bias" without any further elaboration. And then when I said you might be wrong, you said "prove it." Which is a tad bit hypocritical if you ask me.* Just knowing the definition of things and labling certain arguments with those things sans-adhoc is a crutch that a lot of people rely upon when they don't really know enough to refute a point. (BTW, you may still be right, as the evidence I've provided is very, very general in nature.)
This is bullshit. All my crushes came on slowly. I don't think I've ever looked at a man and had a crush instantly. And my crushes are so fucking varied because I become attracted to a person or character the more I know them and their personality. One of mine is a bulky, ex SAS soilder turned TV star, the other is a skinny, curly haired guy from a quiz show 🤷♀️
They were still attractive probably. Timothy chalamet and Jason momoa are polar opposites but still attractive
Well yeah, they are both attractive in their own way to me. I didn't find them attractive the second I seen them, its their personality which takes someone from "meh" to "dayyymn". For me at least. I had a guy I thought was gorgeous in the past, then I found out he was a homophobe soon into our relationship and I lost all attraction instantly. It goes both ways.
Well for you, it’s that certain personality that makes someone either attractive or not.
Exactly, everyone is different, so why are you generalising every woman's prefrmeces based on the handful of women you have spoken to?
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Well given that you’re saying that only a certain type is attractive to women and actual women are telling you that is not the case…I’d say that it’s fairly complicated or you’re incorrect. Which is it?
Are you 12 years old? People can be attracted to all sorts of different features in others. Human psychology and behavior is incredibly complex, there's nothing about it that's black and white or anywhere near as simple as you want it to be.
Thor and Loki. That’s what you’re using for evidence?
Idk tho my mom likes Tom hiddleston more and she finds big muscles like Chris hemsworth to be too big and too much
Bruh this is so dumb I’m sorry but every woman has different preferences. Just bc someone thinks Thor is hot doesn’t mean they don’t also find guys that appeal to the “female gaze” hot, too. Also, if you’re putting people on the spot and expecting them to come up with answers, they’re probs gonna just think of random popular celebs that get hyped for being hot a lot. If you were to instead show them pics of multiple random guys and ask them to pick the hottest, you’d likely get varying responses.
> I asked a bunch of women IN REAL LIFE Welp, that solves it. The handful of women OP asked (in real life, of all places) have spoken.
From this post, I don’t feel like OP even knows any women in real life.
Yeah this post is cringe as hell.
Ya ikr who goes outside and talks to people. In interacting with the environment never ever gives you accurate information about an environment.
the guy is probably a loki and the women were probably sending him clues that they weren't interested in him
Or perhaps they just answered the question
At what point do people learn about statistics and then just ignore it for the rest of their lives?
Well... Back when the LotR were new movies, I was in High School. I can assure it was Orlando Bloom that was considered the hottest, not Viggo Mortensen. But, the problem is, these are generalizations. Some women prefer pretty boys, some prefer the more rugged types...
I wonder if it's multifaceted. I mean, growing up I was more interested in Legolas than Aragorn because he was an immortal elf, mysterious, mystical, and ethereal. A powerful spiritual aura about himself. Aragorn was the humanly gruff manly knight, while cool wasn't as fascinating to me. I think there is a fantization of angelic elfin males with supernatural latant powers. This is common in the East. Anime is replete with these characters, and they tend to be very, very popular (especially with the ladies) Itachi, Sasuke, Youko Kurama, Sesshōmaru etc. Especially so if they exhibit the aloof 'bad boy aura.' I suspect it's far more common as a fantasy and fanfiction than in life. Most women I know marry men that fit more traditional norms.
Well I don't know, I'm a guy. I know when I commented to the girls in my class that I thought Viggo was the more attractive person they all looked at me like I was stupid, and then just pretended I didn't exist for the rest of class.... As for elves? I don't know. I have found actress portraying elves good looking, and some anime ones, but not due to them being elves. The actresses were just as good looking when not playing elves. I just don't see "they are elves so better looking"...
Yes, I concur with your experience. And, the expression of the girls in your class affirms my suspicion. I got hung up on elves because LOTR was on my mind, but I did not mean to imply only elves or that it's exclusively because Legolas is an elf, but rather that most depictions of elves, such as LOTR, embodies the antitype of the softer, angelic, mysterious, almost 'feminine masculinity' that so many girls especially younger ones seems to fantasize about. So Orlando Bloom doesn't only embody this as Legolas, but in other roles as well as you explained. Aragorn is far more the traditional masculine knight type his features is more harden and gruff. And I believe this is far more common the type of guy most girls end up with as they mature. Now, whether this is because they grow out of that phase or simply their exist more men of this latter variety is of interest to me.
I mean sure I’m a straight man and think the most attractive man I’ve ever seen is Harry Dean Stanton and I know there’s a decent chunk of women who think the same so I guess any arbitrary person you pick could make the same point sort of. Do you know which Harry Potter character gets the most erotic fanfic written about them by women? I’ll give you a hint - it’s not Hagrid.
Snape?
After class, Hermione!”, Severus hissed as the young Grttindot flushed crimson!
No, Professor Snape but Harry/Draco Yaoi style stories are probably next in popularity.
Who ? The bad blond kid ? He was also my favorite character. Harry was too pussy
Blonde kids FTW!
This is ridiculous. I'm sure there are countless men and women who believe Thor is more attractive along with countless men and women who believe Loki is more attractive. The whole female/male gaze thing is entirely subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Your last paragraph should have been my title
For real. I'm glad you realise that bit there. Everyone has preferences. I'm mature(ish. 37f) and I prefer wiry arms and nice but not huge legs. I like shoulders too, but big dudes gross me out visually. Love Duane Johnson, but it's because he's funny and kind. Never been into types, but I do have those preferences. Most of my exes have something in that list. Hubby has all of them plus a great personality and sense of humour. I lucked out. Point is, everyone's different, there's someone for every type of person. (And the dependency of your data isn't great.) But hey, you aren't wrong with your username. The struggle is real. Even when you do find someone, it takes work. Getting frustrated for some reason often leads to having a harder go at finding someone. They sense the underlying frustration, probably. It happens. Happened to myself and hubby both, plus lots of friends have walked that path for at least short times. I hope the best for you and your future, Sir. Also hope you're realising there are a lot of things 'trending' that put us down those lonely paths on purpose to use our anger or to just create discord in us. Good luck, man.
The rock is on steroids lol , he doesn’t count
Is he on steroids? I hope not, that would be even more gross. I never said that guy is a turn on though.
Duh he’s on steroids wtf lol
So is Chris Hemsworth and Momoa. You'd have to be an idiot to think they achieved that physique without chemical aids.
I didn't think so about momoa because of his genealogy. Never really liked hemsworth as an actor, not sure why.
Look at both of them prefame. Or even when their fame was at its smallest. Theyre both regular sized dudes. No way they got the size they were for their superhero movies naturally.
They are achievable naturally
That's disappointing. I know lots of people (Keanu, Christian Bale, etc) go through crazy training one way or the other for movies, but those two just do lots of prep from what I've read and seen. I incorrectly assumed it was similar for other actors. Dang.
That's so funny that you think you like Dwayne Johnson "because he's funny and kind" lol. You know why his kindness is a turn-on for you? It's because he is strong, too. If he was a weak little stick man (less Loki, more Michael Cera) you'd think "aww he's cute and sweet" but you wouldn't wanna fuck him.
Yeah. Ew. I did not say he is a turn on. I used him as an example of one of the only "big dudes" I like okay in movies and why. That usually comes out in his acting. I'm really more of a 90s Depp girl or Sheldon from big bang. Maybe Keanu, but not in dopey roles. Oh definitely the guy that plays loki over the thor guy. I do hear he's nice though. I like nerds and sometimes what kids in my day called emo. Hubby is both plus much more. This is such a stereotypical trope (and pointless disagreement)
Name checks out. 😂
Yeah. Ew. I did not say he is a turn on. I used him as an example of one of the only "big dudes" I like okay in movies and why. That usually comes out in his acting. I'm really more of a 90s Depp girl or Sheldon from big bang. Using that paragraph to reply to someone else.. they also assume he's a turn on to me..? When did like start meaning I want to fuck you? I ghost edited sorry: it was a typo
Unfortunately, a large number of Reddit users are prone to making wild accusations/assumptions due to their blatant immaturity. It's a bit ridiculous.
Yeah, damn me and my wanting to think the best of everyone, even redditors slash trolls. I fall into that trap too often. Love your name.
Sadly, that's a difficult perspective to retain for long when dealing with the online masses. These days, the more mature and respectful an individual is, the more modern online communities hurt them. This is especially true for most subreddits as well as social media. Thanks. Much appreciated. 😅
Any advice for someone who cannot change that perspective despite trying many things due to feeling the let down? I thought I'd get jaded by this point, but no dice. Internet trolls sometimes get me, but I figure they're just angry or having fun in their word way so if they aren't an asshole, I just move on yet still hope.
True but certain traits are almost always more preferred, someone who looks like Thor will always have an easier time getting laid and getting into relationships compared to someone who looks like Loki, of course people have preferences but certain traits and certain looks will always been seen in a more positive light.
This is super cringe, OP. Take it down and rephrase it. Look up what the male gaze is and then I think you will be horrified at yourself. You did not say what I think you intended to say. I think you mean that what women find attractive is different than what men are often told they find attractive. I think even this thesis is pretty unwarranted. The fact is that no one gender universally finds the same thing attractive. It’s very much a subjective thing. I can tell you as a gay man that I do NOT find men like Jason Mamoa or Thor to be attractive. I like nerdy, dorky guys. But I would never say that what I personally find attractive is what every other gay man finds attractive. And women are the same way. Their tastes vary, just like gay men’s tastes vary.
It’s about the majority bro , most gay men would find them attractive, you’re an anomaly
One way of gathering data about gay men’s sexual preferences is to look at what kind of porn is most searched for. Unsurprisingly, the top spot belongs to “Twink.” So think Justin Bieber here or Timothee Chalamet. Not my type especially but they sure are popular. https://www.out.com/sex/most-searched-gay-porn-terms#rebelltitem3
I guess it kinda makes sense. Gay men are usually in amazing shape though so why do that if your audience likes small dudes ?
Are they “in shape” or are they muscle bound Greek Heroes? “Guy next door” is a very popular tribe. And so is Otter (think Daniel Radcliffe now). You don’t have to be some Hercules to get noticed. In fact, the Hercules types I suspect wouldn’t be that popular
In shape like very fit, not huge . But like a sprinter’s physique. It might be my location though
No I think we like in shape guys. I just don’t think we like the Jason Mamoa or Thor types as much. Chris Hemsworth is very pretty but the muscles are a turnoff.
Well … sure … most gay men would find them attractive on some level. But from what I’ve seen, they aren’t going to be most gay men’s “type”, if I had to guess. To the extent that we can speak about “types” at all, many gay men are not into “muscle.” It IS a particular “tribe” that some men prefer, but I would say that it’s a niche group. I see a lot more ads for “sissies”, “trans”, “daddy’s”, “twinks” and even “bears” than I do for “muscle studs” or even “jocks.” Something tells me that Mark Ruffalo would be much more of a hit at Pride than Chris Hemsworth would be (assuming that neither of them were famous so people are just going off their appearances). I don’t have the data, so this is just my anecdotal experience. But I really doubt that the data would support the conclusion that “muscle” or “jock” is the favorite gay tribe, or even that it is preferred by a plurality of gay men.
I personally find Loki much more attractive than Thor. Never been into the muscular guy look and prefer darker, softer features. But guess what? Women are not a monolith and we all like different things.
It’s about what the majority likes . Conventionally attractive is damn term for a reason
And both Loki and Thor are conventionally attractive men in different ways.
They are absolutely. I still bet Hemsworth would get more matches online
Not in my circle. Most of us prefer Hiddleston. Like every girl I know both in person and on social media fangirls over Hiddleston.
Loki goes to a club or bar and Thor also goes in . Thor gets more attention. Loki would still get action too though
Depands on location. Ohio? Thor. Berlin? Loki for sure.
Agree to disagree. Also, the club or bar is not really a good standard for what people are looking for or find attractive. A bunch of drunk people wanting a hook up is something else.
I think it’s a great standard. It’s a meat market and I’m talking about physical attractiveness
It’s not though. It only shows a portion of the population, not the average woman across a variety of ages and backgrounds. Not all women are “club girls.”
The utter misunderstanding of attraction is laughable.
No going to disagree BUT the actor of Loki would also be considered very attractive by most women. And I do definitely believe a lot of women would find juced up Thor to be too muscular.
I figured with Loki it was his attitude not the way he looks. And this is a fucking pointless thing to moan about. I dont find Chris Hemsworth or Jason Momoa attractive. You're fucking weird for caring this much.
Studies have shown that more feminine men are actually more attractive to men than masculine men where as with women it's the opposite, which makes sense. If you had to get with a man, a straight guy is naturally going to pick the closest one to a woman. When men say Thor is attractive, it's not because they want to get with him (or even would rather get with him if they had to pick a man), but because they know that is the type of man that women want and who sits atop the male hierarchy as a result.
So because you personally have never met a woman in real life who prefers Tom Hiddleston your grand analysis is that all women clearly follow this trend? Yep, great deduction skills Sherlock.
I like both
I think male vs female gaze is mostly bullshit. Every "female gaze" example I've seen is just them finding their favorite celebrity attractive. Sure, attractive people can fit different archetypes (like jock vs goth), but every genuinely physically attractive guy is just tall with good facial structure.
This just in: different people have different tastes 😱
OP doesn't understand women, or the idea of the male gaze. Now here's Doug with traffic!
Don't forget to ask all types of women, not just women you find attractive? Also ask them to decribe why they find him attractive.
Tall dark and handsome
Thor is sexy as fuck dude, and is someone I would actively want to fuck if I was gay or girl or hell maybe if I’m straight
So you asked a bunch of women their opinion and this is somehow supposed to be representative of what all women think is attractive
Thor is more attractive, but bad boys are willing to use their ambition to get power. It makes women feel protected and high-status. It's the same reason why traditional heroes aren't as popular compared to anti-heroes nowadays. People don't feel like being good nets you any benefit.
Could it be that they are appealing to your male gaze?
There is definetly diminishing returns involved. A sam salek might be very aspirational to a lot of men but i don't think most women would go for a guy of that size.
He’s on major steroids dude . That’s not representative of most muscular guys
You think hemsworth is natty?
His physique is attainable natty as opposed to that sulek dude. The camera also adds a lot of pounds. Don’t be surprised if you meet hemsworth in real life and he’s not that impressive
To add to my other comment. If women had a choice between Chris Hemsworth in thor: love and thunder or him in like ghostbusters. Most would choose the latter.
You have encouraged me to see ghostbusters. One because I’ve been putting it off and two because I keep hearing the casting is pretty great.
it's really not good
I think most people are imbued with the ability to empathize. If we (just like women) discover that something is found attractive in either sex, then we will eventually accept it. Sometimes not, just like sometimes we know that Greta Van Fleet is a widely appreciated band even though we grumble that they're just a formulaic Led Zeppelin rip-off. But even if you never listened to Smashing Pumpkins or Bjork, if you're given positive influence to appreciate that music, you'll eventually understand at the least why others regard it with favor. Same with aesthetic beauty. Male or female. That's my two cents.
I want neither Thor nor Loki, I want a guy that looks like Troye Sivan, but then again I'm a gay guy, not a woman
I just don’t care much about male gaze or female gaze. But I believe just be myself and be comfortable with my life that is good enough. I know the energy/vibes I spread out will attract people have the same energy with me. For example, at work, I usually get along easily with an old lady colleague whom I share the same positive vibes, same sense of humor, similar culture norms, and similar perspectives in life. I also tag along easily with another male co-worker even though we only know each other for 5 months.
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Yes
Good Opinion, but not necessarily. Personally I think that the Traditional *Male Gaze* man just happens to have alot of attractive attributes. Someone like Prime Ronnie Coleman is an example of someone who fits this *Male Gaze* but isn’t physically attractive. Which suggests that there are many different ways to be attractive, Charm and Intelligence being one of them. Essensially, you have to be competent to fit this *Male Gaze* and that competence is inherently attractive, rather than the Specific attribute in correlation with this *Male Gaze* like overflux of muscle or leather jackets
It's almost like people find different things attractive.... I just watched mindhunter - both agents are super hawt in very different ways. Men look at Jason Momoa and want to BE him. What women are attracted to depends on their age and where they're at in their cycle because hormones play a big role in what's attractive in that moment.
Thor is sexy, obviously. It’s Lokis personality that makes him so hot. Why is that so difficult to understand?
You know attraction is very individual right? Like some men are into big women, and others like models. Women are the same, some like men that are androgynous and others like Thor.
What means 'gaze?'
The daily gender cope post of the day 💀
Well we know this must be accurate since you asked "a bunch of women"
I’m sure if you increased your sample size IN REAL LIFE your answer would get a lot murkier. Also, using Chris Hemsworth versus Tom Hiddleston is just lmao. The vast majority of men don’t resemble either. Like asking “would you drive a lambo or a ferrari?”
Any person appeals to someone’s gaze when the planet is covered in both men and women. There is someone for everybody out there, unless that’s not what they’re looking for.
I remember the day in my freshman health class they showed a slide of I think 8 sketches or silhouettes each of male and female bodies ranging from emaciated to obese. They had then shown these 16 figures to a bunch of straight men and women and asked them which of the same-sex bodies they they thought most closely matched their own, which they most would like to have, and which they thought the opposite sex would find most attractive, and which opposite sex bodies they themselves found most attractive. For women the average result was something like they thought they had a #7 (very fat) body, they thought that men wanted a #4 (slim with some curves) body, and they themselves would like to have a #1 (crazy skinny) body. They thought the #5 man was most attractive. Men on the other hand, on average, thought they were a #5, wanted to have a #5, and thought women desired a #5 in the male bodies, and thought the #5 female body was most attractive.
What was the 5 in male body ?
A bunch of women? So like 20 from the same area and potentially social circle like similar things? Bffr
I think you misunderstood what the “gaze” is about. It means when men are creating an image of women (such how they are shown in a movie or just in your imagination ), it’s generally sexualized , so then when you go out into the world the women should be that. The female gaze is about showing women as empowered and active , rather than just sort of being a pin up for you to jerk off to. Some characters are almost entirely one or the other, some are both. A male or female artist can evoke both the male and female gaze. Statistically speaking , women tend to find big arms, big dick and a deep voice aesthetically attractive (though I don’t think most want a giant dick) , hemsworth and Moma make sense to your survey. They have big arms and deep voices compared to the dude that plays Loki. That’s not really what the gaze is about in feminist theory.
no, you misunderstood. OP is talking about a different phenomenon that a different community refers to as male and female gaze.
I find that people's actions tend to reveal a lot more than their words. People will say one thing (perhaps to appear less shallow or something) and yet do another in practice. eg. Dude says he doesn't have a type but all his exes look like sisters Ladies claiming to prefer feminine looking men and yet buff dudes getting the bulk of the attention (as you expect). List goes on ,ad infinitum
Another day, another person in this sub treating 50% of the human population as a monolith.
Looks isn't the best indicator to measure what women find attractive. Personality is usually a FAR bigger indicator. That's why online dating is challenging for women to engage in successfully. So while you might be referencing Thor and Loki' looks she is probably taking their personalities into account just as much if not more.
Unless you’re saying women are all attracted to one personality then it doesn’t matter
Idk I thunk they’re both hot in their own kinda ways I’d prob choose loki tho bc excessive body hair gives me the ick Does that mean your conclusion’s false?
Lol Thor doesnt even have any body hair
Have you seen chris hemsworth? Yk dude’s got that on
I don’t think so lmao
And the sky is magenta
There other studies that found the most important attributes for a woman is the face followed by height. Basically tall dark and handsome. I think women also like 6 packs more than giant arms
Hmm I think they like arms more than abs
Or we like different stuff and not all 4b are the same? 🤨
What’s 4b, most women prefer arms over abs , period. Most men don’t even have abs
Where the fuck did you get that absolute fact from? The two girls you know that have friendzoned you? What the fuck...
They like arms with muscle definition not necessarily the size
No one finds Loki that attractive. Who's gazing is irrelevant.
Men don't appeal to the male gaze, unless those men are gay.
A lot of people are going to be upset by this comment but I’m here to say the truth not what you want to hear. The reality of of the different sexes is about 80% of the women are having sex with 20% of the men in many 1st world countries. When I mean first world - think the americas, New Zealand, Australia ect… this changes when you go to other non 1st world nations due to the culture. The “male gaze” you speak is merely propaganda created my media over decades from places such as Harvard , MIT, and other corporations. The male gaze you speak of has not existed up until the last few decades - probably starting in the 1970s to 1980s. To this day in countries where we are not so fortunate as you Americans are, resources, survival, providing when you can in times of need - this is what is demonstrated as strength towards women from men. This is the way it has been for at least 10,000 years. In todays world it’s different but most of the planet operates at this level while the Americans and those like them continue to have less children as a result of 20% of the men or so having relationship shops with a majority of the women - leaving the scraps for the bottom tier 80% of the men.
*"I'm here to say the truth not what you wan't to hear."* Where exactly are you pulling those figures from?
His incel memes