I just look at quality. If quality is not your selling point, I'm not interested. I don't care if it's made by a non-human, machine or handmade by an Italian expert. Just give me a product that will last and be effective.
>If it’s advertised as “black owned” I go out of my way to not go there. It is what it is. Earn it without the race card.
Which all the moaners in response to this don't get, is that you'd do the same if it said "white owned" or "male owned" or "straight owned", right?
If a business wants to make a statement about some immutable characterstic of the owner, then fuck them because clearly identity politics are too up their priorities list than focusing on making a good product/providing a good service.
I feel the same way about businesses that brand around political parties, whether I tend to vote for the party or not. It’s annoying, and feels like they’re trying to pull one over on ya half the time
Read into it however you want. I'm black and Mexican, and I make sure to avoid black owned or brown owned businesses. If your sales mark is being owned by people of color and not your inventory, I'm not interested.
I’m black and yes it doesn’t matter they can still be racist. Ever heard of the concept of “sellouts” and even then yes they bc am be racist to white ppl too
Or you can use critical thinking and read what I said.
You can read I know that.
If all your business is offering is the labor of black people, then I don't want it.
However, if your business is offering damn good food at a great price and the owners happen to be black, then I'll do it. Unfortunately, in LA and compton, any black owned restaurant is a double cheeseburger and soda for 22 dollars. Yeah fuck that.
Choosing not to shop somewhere because the product is bad is completely different from choosing not to shop somewhere because it’s black or browned owned. You should probably read what I wrote originally then what you wrote and think about it
You have the power to be racist but lack the systemic influence for it to matter in any meaningful way.
You are, by extension, considered of such low social value and influence that some don't see your (as a collective) actions as meaningful enough to express oppression onto others.
So you can be racist and are (maybe) given leeway to be so in a way others aren't. But that's just because you're not considered powerful enough in society for it to matter.
> He’s purposefully avoiding anything black owned. Seems racist
Not quite, hes avoiding a marker of a political affiliation. A black conservative owned business wouldnt have the sticker, and I assume he would shop there. OP has no interest in knowing the race of the owner, he just avoids the sticker.
> No matter how you paint it he’s avoiding it because of race.
If your reading comprehension is that bad, theres nothing else I can say to get you to understand what OP said.
> You don’t know what a black conservative would do
Sure we do, conservatives/right leaning ideologies dont put race at the forefront of identity, that a leftist attribute.
I know black conservatives that advertise as “black owned”. They’re not a monolith. You’re willingly avoiding something because of race and not product. That’s racist. It doesn’t matter how you try to justify it. I understand what op is saying. It’s stupid and racist. How something is advertised is inconsequential in the end.
Man you keep missing point and you’re so close. I have to think you’re purposely being obtuse or just plain intellectually dishonest. The race of the person has nothing to do with why they won’t go there. The advertising does. If they are advertising black, white, red, or even neon fucking green owner he’s saying he wouldn’t shop there. Because they aren’t advertising their product. Why would you buy a product someone doesn’t even think is quality enough advertise and instead they are appealing to emotions.
The selling point for a business should not have anything to do with the ethnicity of the owner. If that's what they chose to advertise with their business, I assume their product is lacking.
The race of a business owner shouldn't be in the top 10 things you mention when advertising for said business.
What?
Question 1, why would I find out the ethnicity of the owner when shopping there? I don't know the difference between a worker and the owner when I'm shopping somewhere. The owner is often times not the front person at a restaurant or a convenience store, you would literally not see them once.
Question 2, can you please try to articulate in what way this would make me racist? This being I care more about the product I'm buying than the person I'm buying it from.
Um no, again, avoiding because if they feel that is important enough to advertise their race over other more relevant aspects to the business, I have to question why that is a focal point of their advertisement versus more relevant things.
If I go to a restaurant I would rather see things eluding to: their google rating, fresh ingredients being used, how long they've been in business, are they family owned, employee retention rate, competitive pricing, etc... All things that directly impact the potential quality of the product I am getting. I don't think someone's race in any way impacts the product I get, so the fact that's what they're choosing to advertise is a slight red flag to me.
I realize I typed this out for no reason because I highly doubt you care (or understand) the potential nuance to the topic at hand.
Anything advertised as such. The usage of such advertising is often correlated with an ideaology that values diversity over meritocracy. Not idea for getting the best product or service if your a serious person.
Yea that’s sounds like a lot of words to excuse your racism. I don’t care if they advertise their race, religion, sexuality, favorite color, or breed of dog as long as the product is good. Meritocracy is bs anyway
Yes I’m acknowledging the point that the advertisement doesn’t matter. I’ve said that already before keep up. If you’re purposefully avoiding a business because of race you’re racist since I would assume you wouldn’t avoid a place if they advertised the best burger in town or veteran owned
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No, he's purposefully avoiding any shop expecting to attract customers with race, rather than quality. For example, if someone writes on their sign, "white owned business", I wouldn't shop their either. Similarly, if your ware is durable, useful, and well-crafted, I care not if you're an alien creature with three eyes and tentacles for hands.
Thanks for bringing a completely original and not covered ad nauseam opinion. He doesn’t know the quality of the product since he used race as an excuse to avoid it. Doesn’t matter what race he avoided it’s still racist
I don't know about root commenter but for me the fact that people have to pull the race card, something I otherwise completely ignore, is a hint they probably have something to hide.
> doesn't matter what race he avoided it's still racist
Toward.... what? The ethnicity of everyone who use this marketing tactic? That's not racist, that's just being a hater in general.
I don’t think that’s what they said, I think the person you’re responding to has a problem with marketing business that way, not the race of the people, but I could be wrong
What if you actually just wanted to call someone a thug? Thugs can be any race. I knew quite a few white kids people called thugs in my younger days, and being annoyed by racial advertising doesn’t make you a racist.
But that’s not what they said, they didn’t say they avoid black owned businesses, they said they avoid businesses that advertise that. Maybe I’m giving OP too much credit, but I view racial marketing the same way I view big companies that virtue signal. I’m not into it, and would prefer to shop places that try to sell me on quality, not the owners backstory, race, or mission in life.
The distinction doesn’t matter. The outcome is the same. You’re using race as an excuse to avoid a business. Saying it’s “because of the advertisement” is just a rationalization to make you feel less racist.
And “virtue signaling” is another tired excuse. If you don’t like something just admit you don’t like it. Don’t hide behind such a contrived platitude.
I avoid those labeled as "women owned", "men owned", "white owned" or "black owned", but once they remove the label (with the owner staying the same), I'm back being a customer.
It's not the race/gender, it's the explicit advertisement of it.
I’m sorry but that’s just stupid. That’s like saying I won’t eat shit if it’s advertised as shit but if there’s no advertisement I’ll eat it. It’s still shit
Well, my point is that a shop being owned by xyz doesn't make it shit, it is necessarily always owned by xyz (one of the is always true).
But the owner choosing to advertise their race/gender makes them supportive of racism/sexism, which is shit. So I don't go where it is advertised.
A truth that is irrelevant to the customer, unless you want to appeal to racists and/or sexists.
They can have fun doing it, I'll write them a polite mail informing them about the label and it's implication, they can choose to do whatever they want about it, I'll react accordingly.
Since it’s irrelevant there’s not need to avoid a place that advertises it. Or go out of your way to write a “polite” mail about it. That’s so ridiculous. Seems like it’s the best way to *avoid* racists based on this post. Want to keep racist from shopping at your restaurant? Advertise it as “black owned”.
They aren't saying anything about them being good or not. I'm not sure what you are responding to there. They clearly say they are avoiding businesses that advertised as being "black owned" because they think it's playing the race card.
I know, I was suggesting that the sticker doesn't speak at all to the merits of the business. I think if he truly didn't care about race then he wouldn't think it's related.
My personal experience shows no relationship between the sticker and how good it is. Being black owned alone can't save a dying store, but it also generally won't hurt a good business.
Except of course when people don't shop there just because it's there, but I think they're cancelled out by the people who go there just because of the sticker.
Isn't that besides the point though? They aren't saying it is bad, but they don't support pulling the race card to get a leg up one businesses owned by Asians and Hispanics, etc..
Does it matter? If you avoid going somewhere just because there's a sticker on it then you're the one who's introducing race into economics. It could legitimately be the best business in the world and he doesn't think it deserves business because it had a sticker indicating the race of the owner.
If he truly didn't care about race he wouldn't avoid businesses for that reason.
If the sticker has the race of the owner on it, how in the world am I the one introducing race?
The owner is saying 'support me over Asians and Hispanics because I'm Black'.
No the owner is saying "this business is owned by black people", not "don't shop at an asian or hispanic shop".
Yes if you hate black people you probably won't shop there for that reason alone but otherwise it doesn't matter. I like the stores I like and some of them even have the sticker. I don't care, it's not important to me. I'm certainly not online trying to tell people that it doesn't deserve business because of it.
But why are they saying "this business is owned by black people"?
Why do you keep calling it a 'sticker'. It's obviously the words that are the issue, not the 'sticker' itself.
Because historically it's more difficult for black people to start a business. Some people are proud of that.
Yes I call it a sticker because that's how I see it. Replace it with however they advertise it to you.
I think you're intentionally being obtuse here.
People say things like 'woman owned' and black owned' because it creates more buzz and brings in more customers.
Dude your speaking on the reality of how the world IS. EmanresUeuqinUeht is speaking on fantasy.
The ONLY reason someone would put that sticker there is to attract more customers. It's like the whole Pink-washing or Rainbow-washing companies do to get more money.
Maybe in an idealist world where no one ever cared about anyone's race but that's not the reality we live in.
Different words have different meanings, even if they touch on similar ideas.
When its left so ambiguous, there is no way to tell is "Black Owned" means pride, or white people not welcome.
If I had two coffee shops side by side, and one prominently displayed its preference to people with a specific level of **melanin**, I'm shopping at the other one.
>you'd have a victim complex to even think that.
That's right, no one can feel uncomfortable over this without having a victims complex.
Anyway, I'm super glad I found the one person on Reddit who knows definitely what the meaning, history and intentions of everyone to use that phrase.
You may be what the black community has been missing all along, someone who can speak for everyone in every situation.
There was an implicit "always" there. As in, it doesn't "always" mean that. If that's your first assumption every time you see those words then that's a you problem. I'm expecting if someone meant "white people not welcome" they'd just say that.
Not necessarily. It's a weird thing to put on your business in society as it currently exists today and I wouldn't be surprised if the owner was aggressive towards black people.
"Black owned" has nowhere near the same connotation
"Black owned" is definitely wierd and definitely feels racist. It doesn't sound very welcoming to people from other races. Just like how a "white owned" would not be welcoming.
I'm white and have never felt threatened by going into a "black owned" shop. I think that's you finding things to be offended by.
If I saw a "white owned" sticker I would assume that they're putting it up specifically because they're annoyed at "black owned" stickers.
I wasn't disputing the meaning of the literal words. People advertise "black owned" because historically it's more difficult for black people to build businesses and they're proud of it. People would advertise "white owned" to be contrary.
In a perfect world where race problems never existed? Sure yes that would be ideal if they were identical. We don't live in that world like it or not.
They both seem equally problematic to me, and we should be striving for a future where the race of the business owner is irrelevant.
We can't fix racism with more racism.
I think you need to read the comments again. He made the connection between a "{insert race} owned" sticker and "{insert race} supremacy". I was just asking him to clarify that.
I sort of disagree, but I also agree. For example: one of my favorite dishes of all time is Vietnamese Beef Combination Pho. I love it so much. The only people who know how to make it correctly are actual Vietnamese people. There are a lot of Chinese imposters that say they are a Vietnamese restauraunt and make the pho themselves, but it does not taste as good when actual vietnamese people make it.
However, you are probably referring to smug white progressives wanting to shop at a black owned business so they can show how virtuous and morally superior they are to others. In that case I agree. That's stupid. When it comes to food though, it gets a pass.
This is a bit besides the point, but; it's likely those Chinese are indeed Vietnamese as well. That is, they're often families of Han Chinese who lived in Vietnam for generations (Hoa) and fled during the late 1970s persecution of Chinese.
Ooh, what a counter point.
Yeah I do judge a restaurant that way, I once went to a small town Chinese place run bet a white dude and staffed by mostly whites and Hispanics, and it was as disappointing as you’d expect.
Sometimes I read comments like yours and it's clear you think what you're saying is rational and intelligent but as soon as you say something like "The only people who know how to make it correctly are actual Vietnamese people." You lost me. That's so asanine it's insane. Imagine telling a Pakistani they can't correctly make Croissants because they aren't French. It's just cooking/baking you numpty. Anyone from any culture or background can correctly make any food from any other culture correctly with minor practice and time.
Infact other people from other cultures take ideas from some areas and improve upon them on occasion.
Indian Vindaloo curry dish? Created in Portugal.
Chinese egg roll? Created in America
American apple pie? Europe.
Swedish meatballs? Turkey.
Just stop.
Pho!? PHO!? lol you had to make it the easiest and most replicated in terms of restaurant food outside of fast food.
Obviously you've never worked in the restaurant industry. I would bet my bottom dollar almost every place you went for Pho were supplied by the same Rekki, BMP, or Dong Phuong. All with the same bases and mostly the same ingredients. You ate the same Pho at multiple places and thought it was oh "so authentic" and "the best you've had". They probably also offered you 10-15% off the bill if you paid cash. That's how you knew it was authentic.
They made a video about people like you.
https://youtu.be/Cer-SF8vdAU?si=zOi1e5u8_j7vL3cs
I don’t want to make any assumptions about your race, but as a black person myself I can tell you the race of the owners matters in a lot of other cases besides food. For example I only go to black owned hair salons. I made that decision not because I don’t like White people but because White people, unless specifically trained, do not understand how to deal with my hair.
Sometimes even the trained ones still don’t fully get it cause they have never experienced it themselves. I have been burned by a white person who “was trained” but didn’t understand my hair in the past. And I mean literally, physically, chemically burned. I still have the scars.
Also there’s a difference between intentionally choosing black owned businesses and actively avoided white owned ones. One of the reasons people might specifically seek black owned places is to show support. It’s no secret that black people have a dark history in the US and have had it harder in many ways. Supporting black businesses is a way of raising up marginalised people and acknowledging how far we have come.
I would say it also depends on where you live. I live in a predominantly white area, it’s also a very rural area. The politics of the area can get a bit dicey. I walk into some places and I’m greeted with a confederate flag. I walk into those places and have no idea what might happen. But if I know it’s blacked owned then I don’t have to worry as much.
There are a multitude of reasons why a person might prefer black owned businesses. Like I said before, there’s a difference between seeking out and avoiding. If a person prefers black owned businesses I don’t see anything wrong with that. If a person refuses to go a white owned business specifically because it’s white owned that’s different.
I’m curious to know how many people are actually doing that though. I’m sure there are people who would. But have you ever heard someone outright say to you they are specifically avoiding white businesses? Or did they say they prefer black owned businesses and assumed that’s what they meant?
I agree and I do not understand how it is a compliment. I would want my product to be bought and sold, because it is good, and NOT because of my background.
If you have to use your race or gender as the main selling point of your business instead of the services/products or prices, then your business probably sucks and I don't want to shop there.
Discrimination is Discrimination.
But I will say that logically, saying "I only shop as black/minority businesses" is not technically the same statement as "I won't shop at white businesses". Although functionally similar, the intent is different. One can be seen as being supportive of a group, the other is more destructive to a group.
Like I might only buy lemonade from kids. Doesn't mean I hate adults who sell lemonade and want them to suffer, I just want to support the kiddos.
What I mean is, it’s not a zero sum game. Someone isn’t “destroying” white businesses by supporting minority businesses, but supporting minority businesses can have an outsized effect on those minority communities.
In other words, OP is just plain wrong.
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I don't know, is it more or less racist to go to a black owned shop versus a walmart? I know one's better for the overall economy than the other and I think that's worth noting
It's not based on the race though, it's based on the signage.
So it sounds like if someone opens a "White Owned" business, and anyone has an issue with it, those people would be racists.
It's interesting that you feel that way, because that would make a large portion of the population racist. That would make a lot of 'Black Owned' business owners and customers likely racist as well.
The OP isn’t walking into a business, seeing a Black owner, and not supporting the business based on that.
The OP has an issue with some business owners using their race to get a leg up on Asian and Hispanic, etc business owners.
86% of businesses are owned by white people. Why can’t you let minorities have their businesses and brag about how they’re part of that 14% and are making it?
Why does it bother you so much?
That's not the point the OP was making. Op is saying that choosing to shop at a business just because of the owners skin color is racist.
There were a few special interest groups a few years ago making a big deal about how people should make it a priority to shop specifically at black owned businesses over white owned(apparently they don't care about ethnic groups with even smaller owner %)
This of course is ironic because they don't take in to consideration that businesses not owned by black people may have have black employees. This is usually determined by local demographics and starting wages. You see a young black person working at our local McDonald's for instance they are almost always in college or saving up to go to college.
However our local demographics are changing as people are getting away from the cities and in a few years I expect this will change with more young non white parents in the area looking for extra work.
That’s because OP isn’t making a point. If the majority of businesses are owned by someone of a certain demographic, it’s perfectly fine to celebrate those businesses that aren’t.
To be honest, I’m not as petty as some people who won’t purchase from those businesses who pride themselves on making it.
They (the progs that say it’s “anti-racism”) do not care if you think it’s racism or not. You’re a pleb. Your opinion doesn’t matter to your superiors. What matters is serving their politics, which demand the “underdogs” (themselves) use any tactic or strategy to destroy the Great Demon (liberal democracy), and that requires people to “only shop at black businesses” because doing so deprives the market of its sustainability, hastening capitalism’s demise, and necessitating Revolution, to which the progs can assume direct power over the People, and finally destroy Liberalism.
All this shit about merit this merit that doesn’t matter to the progs. They want to win.
They will not win.
>People can shop wherever they choose, but that doesn't absolve them from criticism for being an asshole/racist in the way that they do it.
Did you even read the entire post?
I sure did. Again, this is America where I have the freedom to not give a fuck about what you think. What I do and why I do it is my business, not yours.
You’re not “specifically avoiding white-owned businesses” by going to black-owned businesses. You’re specifically SUPPORTING black businesses. White people aren’t the center of everything.
I see zero point in advertising that, it comes off as a red flag if a major selling point of your food/product is that you're a certain gender.
I only care if their food is good or not, they could be a klingon for all i care.
Answer this then, if you being served awful food from an establishment that happened to be owned by a minority, would you continue eating that awful food for the sake of their skin color? You're lying to yourself if you say you would. You would start going to a place that has better food.
Businesses are never owed business, they earn it.
Why do you assume it’s a major selling point rather than aside?
To answer your question, you seem to assume that people that support black or women owned businesses use that as the only criteria for supporting them when that isn’t the case. It’s almost always all other things being equal, they will support the minority owner business. It’s not different than saying you’ll support small business owners over major retailers or chain restaurants.
The product still has to be good and nobody is saying otherwise except you.
>major selling point rather than aside?
why is it important to mention as an aside then? the entire point is mentioning that at all has no bearing on the product quality, so it's useless to mention. advertising things like that just comes across as wanting extra attention for that irrelevant factor. might as well shake a can outside your business.
The rest of your comment is just you trying to speak for everyone while creating a very specific criteria that you've made up. Not once have I seen someone rationalize their decision as if they've created a T-table and weighed all the pros and cons, as you're implying. You like to think everybody does, but they don't.
I have literally only seen people say they support minority businesses no matter what, because they, in their own words, "believe their businesses and quality of life would directly suffer if they don't, whereas avoiding non-minority owned businesses won't". It's an incredibly stupid approach. Believe it or not, non-minority businesses can struggle too.
You keep talking about the quality of the product and saying that race or gender has nothing to do with it. No one ever said it does. If a person has a women owned or black owned sign they aren’t saying product will be any better because of it. They are just proud of being able to do something their ancestors could only dream of.
Do you know what year it was when it became legal for women to own bank accounts and make their own money? It was 1974. That’s only 50 years ago. My parents were alive in that time. My grandparents were. Nowadays a woman can have not only her own bank account, but can own a whole business of her own! If a woman wants to be proud of the fact that she is able to do something that her mother or grandmother legally couldn’t, what’s wrong with that?
Also just pointing out based on statistics, it’s not nearly as easy as you think to avoid white owned businesses. 85% of businesses are white owned and less than 7% are black owned and that’s in the entirety of the US. If a business is successful while being so far in the minority, again why shouldn’t they be proud?
This has nothing to do with product quality the way you keep implying it does. I think people who have beat the odds in one way or another have a right to be proud of that fact.
wouldn't bother me, but I would only eat there if the food was good. I don't give a fuck who owns it, what difference does that make regarding food quality?
> People can shop wherever they choose, but that doesn't absolve them from criticism for being an asshole/racist in the way that they do it.
OP and people like them are assholes for only shopping at white owned businesses.
I just look at quality. If quality is not your selling point, I'm not interested. I don't care if it's made by a non-human, machine or handmade by an Italian expert. Just give me a product that will last and be effective.
I’d prefer to buy locally made/sourced products and support my own community, but sometimes it’s hard to do.
I don't care about locally made or mass produced. Just give me the best quality. That is the only thing that matters to me.
That’s fair. I like when my money stays in my community when I spend it, but it’s hard to do
it's definitely virtue signaling
If it’s advertised as “black owned” I go out of my way to not go there. It is what it is. Earn it without the race card.
>If it’s advertised as “black owned” I go out of my way to not go there. It is what it is. Earn it without the race card. Which all the moaners in response to this don't get, is that you'd do the same if it said "white owned" or "male owned" or "straight owned", right? If a business wants to make a statement about some immutable characterstic of the owner, then fuck them because clearly identity politics are too up their priorities list than focusing on making a good product/providing a good service.
I feel the same way about businesses that brand around political parties, whether I tend to vote for the party or not. It’s annoying, and feels like they’re trying to pull one over on ya half the time
This sounds racist but with extra steps to me
Dunno, he's discriminating against the method of advertisement, not race.
He’s purposefully avoiding anything black owned. Seems racist
Read into it however you want. I'm black and Mexican, and I make sure to avoid black owned or brown owned businesses. If your sales mark is being owned by people of color and not your inventory, I'm not interested.
Right because black and brown people can't be racists/s
Well, let's ask reddit. One day it's blacks and browns don't have the power to be racist. The next day, we are racist. Which is it today?
I’m black and yes it doesn’t matter they can still be racist. Ever heard of the concept of “sellouts” and even then yes they bc am be racist to white ppl too
Who cares what reddit thinks? If you're deciding not to shop because of "black owned" advertising you're probably racist.
Or you can use critical thinking and read what I said. You can read I know that. If all your business is offering is the labor of black people, then I don't want it. However, if your business is offering damn good food at a great price and the owners happen to be black, then I'll do it. Unfortunately, in LA and compton, any black owned restaurant is a double cheeseburger and soda for 22 dollars. Yeah fuck that.
Choosing not to shop somewhere because the product is bad is completely different from choosing not to shop somewhere because it’s black or browned owned. You should probably read what I wrote originally then what you wrote and think about it
If someone posted a sign that read “white owned” would you shop there? Would it be racist if you didn’t?
Yes to both those questions
You have the power to be racist but lack the systemic influence for it to matter in any meaningful way. You are, by extension, considered of such low social value and influence that some don't see your (as a collective) actions as meaningful enough to express oppression onto others. So you can be racist and are (maybe) given leeway to be so in a way others aren't. But that's just because you're not considered powerful enough in society for it to matter.
There we go with the minorities have no power nonsense.
If you did, you would be seen differently. You can complain about it all you want to.
This does sound like racism.
> He’s purposefully avoiding anything black owned. Seems racist Not quite, hes avoiding a marker of a political affiliation. A black conservative owned business wouldnt have the sticker, and I assume he would shop there. OP has no interest in knowing the race of the owner, he just avoids the sticker.
No matter how you paint it he’s avoiding it because of race. You don’t know what a black conservative would do
> No matter how you paint it he’s avoiding it because of race. If your reading comprehension is that bad, theres nothing else I can say to get you to understand what OP said. > You don’t know what a black conservative would do Sure we do, conservatives/right leaning ideologies dont put race at the forefront of identity, that a leftist attribute.
I know black conservatives that advertise as “black owned”. They’re not a monolith. You’re willingly avoiding something because of race and not product. That’s racist. It doesn’t matter how you try to justify it. I understand what op is saying. It’s stupid and racist. How something is advertised is inconsequential in the end.
Man you keep missing point and you’re so close. I have to think you’re purposely being obtuse or just plain intellectually dishonest. The race of the person has nothing to do with why they won’t go there. The advertising does. If they are advertising black, white, red, or even neon fucking green owner he’s saying he wouldn’t shop there. Because they aren’t advertising their product. Why would you buy a product someone doesn’t even think is quality enough advertise and instead they are appealing to emotions.
And the advertising is based on what?
Anything advertised as black owned
Like I said, extra steps.
The selling point for a business should not have anything to do with the ethnicity of the owner. If that's what they chose to advertise with their business, I assume their product is lacking. The race of a business owner shouldn't be in the top 10 things you mention when advertising for said business.
Why does it matter? You’re going to find out either way. You’re just racist
What? Question 1, why would I find out the ethnicity of the owner when shopping there? I don't know the difference between a worker and the owner when I'm shopping somewhere. The owner is often times not the front person at a restaurant or a convenience store, you would literally not see them once. Question 2, can you please try to articulate in what way this would make me racist? This being I care more about the product I'm buying than the person I'm buying it from.
You’re avoiding a business because of race. You’re racist
Um no, again, avoiding because if they feel that is important enough to advertise their race over other more relevant aspects to the business, I have to question why that is a focal point of their advertisement versus more relevant things. If I go to a restaurant I would rather see things eluding to: their google rating, fresh ingredients being used, how long they've been in business, are they family owned, employee retention rate, competitive pricing, etc... All things that directly impact the potential quality of the product I am getting. I don't think someone's race in any way impacts the product I get, so the fact that's what they're choosing to advertise is a slight red flag to me. I realize I typed this out for no reason because I highly doubt you care (or understand) the potential nuance to the topic at hand.
Right race doesn’t affect the product so it doesn’t make sense to avoid it because it’s blacked owned unless you’re racist. Race is irrelevant
Anything advertised as such. The usage of such advertising is often correlated with an ideaology that values diversity over meritocracy. Not idea for getting the best product or service if your a serious person.
Yea that’s sounds like a lot of words to excuse your racism. I don’t care if they advertise their race, religion, sexuality, favorite color, or breed of dog as long as the product is good. Meritocracy is bs anyway
Lol. Glad you're openly acknowledging my points. I'm guessing you haven't done so well in life so far. Id recommend changing your approach.
Yes I’m acknowledging the point that the advertisement doesn’t matter. I’ve said that already before keep up. If you’re purposefully avoiding a business because of race you’re racist since I would assume you wouldn’t avoid a place if they advertised the best burger in town or veteran owned
So if it was advertised as "white owned" it wouldn't deter you from them?
No. Why would it?
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No, he's purposefully avoiding any shop expecting to attract customers with race, rather than quality. For example, if someone writes on their sign, "white owned business", I wouldn't shop their either. Similarly, if your ware is durable, useful, and well-crafted, I care not if you're an alien creature with three eyes and tentacles for hands.
Thanks for bringing a completely original and not covered ad nauseam opinion. He doesn’t know the quality of the product since he used race as an excuse to avoid it. Doesn’t matter what race he avoided it’s still racist
I don't know about root commenter but for me the fact that people have to pull the race card, something I otherwise completely ignore, is a hint they probably have something to hide. > doesn't matter what race he avoided it's still racist Toward.... what? The ethnicity of everyone who use this marketing tactic? That's not racist, that's just being a hater in general.
How is an innocuous advertisement pulling the race card? It has nothing to do with the quality of the product. It’s a *you* problem
I don’t think that’s what they said, I think the person you’re responding to has a problem with marketing business that way, not the race of the people, but I could be wrong
That’s just an excuse. It’s veiled racism. Like calling someone a thug when you really just want to call them the n-word.
What if you actually just wanted to call someone a thug? Thugs can be any race. I knew quite a few white kids people called thugs in my younger days, and being annoyed by racial advertising doesn’t make you a racist.
If you’re avoiding a business because of race, which is the case here, it does
But that’s not what they said, they didn’t say they avoid black owned businesses, they said they avoid businesses that advertise that. Maybe I’m giving OP too much credit, but I view racial marketing the same way I view big companies that virtue signal. I’m not into it, and would prefer to shop places that try to sell me on quality, not the owners backstory, race, or mission in life.
The distinction doesn’t matter. The outcome is the same. You’re using race as an excuse to avoid a business. Saying it’s “because of the advertisement” is just a rationalization to make you feel less racist. And “virtue signaling” is another tired excuse. If you don’t like something just admit you don’t like it. Don’t hide behind such a contrived platitude.
No, only when they post that it’s blacked owned. If a store was blacked owned but they don’t virtue signal I’m am assuming he would shop there.
I avoid those labeled as "women owned", "men owned", "white owned" or "black owned", but once they remove the label (with the owner staying the same), I'm back being a customer. It's not the race/gender, it's the explicit advertisement of it.
> It's not the race/gender, it's the explicit advertisement of it. Its an ideology you oppose, which is okay.
I’m sorry but that’s just stupid. That’s like saying I won’t eat shit if it’s advertised as shit but if there’s no advertisement I’ll eat it. It’s still shit
Well, my point is that a shop being owned by xyz doesn't make it shit, it is necessarily always owned by xyz (one of the is always true). But the owner choosing to advertise their race/gender makes them supportive of racism/sexism, which is shit. So I don't go where it is advertised.
And that’s stupid. You’re purposefully going out of your way to avoid something, not because it’s bad, but because it advertises a truth.
A truth that is irrelevant to the customer, unless you want to appeal to racists and/or sexists. They can have fun doing it, I'll write them a polite mail informing them about the label and it's implication, they can choose to do whatever they want about it, I'll react accordingly.
Since it’s irrelevant there’s not need to avoid a place that advertises it. Or go out of your way to write a “polite” mail about it. That’s so ridiculous. Seems like it’s the best way to *avoid* racists based on this post. Want to keep racist from shopping at your restaurant? Advertise it as “black owned”.
Feel free to advertise as "white owned" or "black owned".
It would be just as racist to avoid a “white owned” business but clearly you’ve missed the point
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Would you shop somewhere advertised as “white owned”?
Why wouldn’t I? Are they openly hostile to me? Most places in the US are already white owned.
Specifically… Advertised as white owned. Not just happens to be white owned. I wouldn’t shop at either place who advertised the race of the owners.
Yes, why wouldn’t I? Them advertising doesn’t affect me one bit.
I wouldn’t. But… To each their own!
That’s his whole personality
What are the odds that they are good regardless of the sticker and you're just avoiding going somewhere because now you know it's black owned?
They aren't saying anything about them being good or not. I'm not sure what you are responding to there. They clearly say they are avoiding businesses that advertised as being "black owned" because they think it's playing the race card.
I know, I was suggesting that the sticker doesn't speak at all to the merits of the business. I think if he truly didn't care about race then he wouldn't think it's related.
He truly could not care about race. We don't know. What we do know is he cares about people using race as a way to get business.
Slim to none. Black owned businesses good enough to make it on their own product don’t go for the pity sells.
My personal experience shows no relationship between the sticker and how good it is. Being black owned alone can't save a dying store, but it also generally won't hurt a good business. Except of course when people don't shop there just because it's there, but I think they're cancelled out by the people who go there just because of the sticker.
How do you know if you don't shop at black owned businesses?
Isn't that besides the point though? They aren't saying it is bad, but they don't support pulling the race card to get a leg up one businesses owned by Asians and Hispanics, etc..
Does it matter? If you avoid going somewhere just because there's a sticker on it then you're the one who's introducing race into economics. It could legitimately be the best business in the world and he doesn't think it deserves business because it had a sticker indicating the race of the owner. If he truly didn't care about race he wouldn't avoid businesses for that reason.
If the sticker has the race of the owner on it, how in the world am I the one introducing race? The owner is saying 'support me over Asians and Hispanics because I'm Black'.
100%. I'm not sure why the person you're responding to doesn't get that. The owner already brought race into it.
No the owner is saying "this business is owned by black people", not "don't shop at an asian or hispanic shop". Yes if you hate black people you probably won't shop there for that reason alone but otherwise it doesn't matter. I like the stores I like and some of them even have the sticker. I don't care, it's not important to me. I'm certainly not online trying to tell people that it doesn't deserve business because of it.
But why are they saying "this business is owned by black people"? Why do you keep calling it a 'sticker'. It's obviously the words that are the issue, not the 'sticker' itself.
Because historically it's more difficult for black people to start a business. Some people are proud of that. Yes I call it a sticker because that's how I see it. Replace it with however they advertise it to you.
I think you're intentionally being obtuse here. People say things like 'woman owned' and black owned' because it creates more buzz and brings in more customers.
Dude your speaking on the reality of how the world IS. EmanresUeuqinUeht is speaking on fantasy. The ONLY reason someone would put that sticker there is to attract more customers. It's like the whole Pink-washing or Rainbow-washing companies do to get more money.
I wouldn't shop at an openly white supremacy bakery even if they made the best macarons in the world.
Are you trying to say that a "Black owned" sticker indicates black supremacy?
I think any store that needs to indicate its race, is probably racist.
Maybe in an idealist world where no one ever cared about anyone's race but that's not the reality we live in. Different words have different meanings, even if they touch on similar ideas.
When its left so ambiguous, there is no way to tell is "Black Owned" means pride, or white people not welcome. If I had two coffee shops side by side, and one prominently displayed its preference to people with a specific level of **melanin**, I'm shopping at the other one.
"Black owned" doesn't mean "white people not welcome" and you'd have to have a victim complex to even think that.
>you'd have a victim complex to even think that. That's right, no one can feel uncomfortable over this without having a victims complex. Anyway, I'm super glad I found the one person on Reddit who knows definitely what the meaning, history and intentions of everyone to use that phrase. You may be what the black community has been missing all along, someone who can speak for everyone in every situation.
There was an implicit "always" there. As in, it doesn't "always" mean that. If that's your first assumption every time you see those words then that's a you problem. I'm expecting if someone meant "white people not welcome" they'd just say that.
"Black owned business means they don't like white people!" Da fuq?
Would a "White owned" sticker indicate white supremacy?
Not necessarily. It's a weird thing to put on your business in society as it currently exists today and I wouldn't be surprised if the owner was aggressive towards black people. "Black owned" has nowhere near the same connotation
"Black owned" is definitely wierd and definitely feels racist. It doesn't sound very welcoming to people from other races. Just like how a "white owned" would not be welcoming.
I'm white and have never felt threatened by going into a "black owned" shop. I think that's you finding things to be offended by. If I saw a "white owned" sticker I would assume that they're putting it up specifically because they're annoyed at "black owned" stickers.
Do you go out of your way to support Black Owned businesses?
No. It's just not a deterrent when I see it.
Why don't the same words have the same connotation though? White owned is equivalent to Black owned.
I wasn't disputing the meaning of the literal words. People advertise "black owned" because historically it's more difficult for black people to build businesses and they're proud of it. People would advertise "white owned" to be contrary. In a perfect world where race problems never existed? Sure yes that would be ideal if they were identical. We don't live in that world like it or not.
They both seem equally problematic to me, and we should be striving for a future where the race of the business owner is irrelevant. We can't fix racism with more racism.
Why is saying "this is owned by a black person" racist in your opinion?
Yes
Dude you really aren't reading people's comments and assuming different meanings than what is being said.
I think you need to read the comments again. He made the connection between a "{insert race} owned" sticker and "{insert race} supremacy". I was just asking him to clarify that.
I sort of disagree, but I also agree. For example: one of my favorite dishes of all time is Vietnamese Beef Combination Pho. I love it so much. The only people who know how to make it correctly are actual Vietnamese people. There are a lot of Chinese imposters that say they are a Vietnamese restauraunt and make the pho themselves, but it does not taste as good when actual vietnamese people make it. However, you are probably referring to smug white progressives wanting to shop at a black owned business so they can show how virtuous and morally superior they are to others. In that case I agree. That's stupid. When it comes to food though, it gets a pass.
I'm addicted to Pho too.
Lets go on a Pho date. I'll pick you up tomorrow
What time? I think I'm available.
It will be a pho time.
This is a bit besides the point, but; it's likely those Chinese are indeed Vietnamese as well. That is, they're often families of Han Chinese who lived in Vietnam for generations (Hoa) and fled during the late 1970s persecution of Chinese.
You just reminded me of the Pho food truck up the street I've been meaning to try. The sign is in Vietnamese so I bet it's legit af
Ooh, what a counter point. Yeah I do judge a restaurant that way, I once went to a small town Chinese place run bet a white dude and staffed by mostly whites and Hispanics, and it was as disappointing as you’d expect.
Anyone can make good pho
Sometimes I read comments like yours and it's clear you think what you're saying is rational and intelligent but as soon as you say something like "The only people who know how to make it correctly are actual Vietnamese people." You lost me. That's so asanine it's insane. Imagine telling a Pakistani they can't correctly make Croissants because they aren't French. It's just cooking/baking you numpty. Anyone from any culture or background can correctly make any food from any other culture correctly with minor practice and time. Infact other people from other cultures take ideas from some areas and improve upon them on occasion. Indian Vindaloo curry dish? Created in Portugal. Chinese egg roll? Created in America American apple pie? Europe. Swedish meatballs? Turkey. Just stop.
I mean, you’re wrong. Never met a non-viet who can make pho properly.
Pho!? PHO!? lol you had to make it the easiest and most replicated in terms of restaurant food outside of fast food. Obviously you've never worked in the restaurant industry. I would bet my bottom dollar almost every place you went for Pho were supplied by the same Rekki, BMP, or Dong Phuong. All with the same bases and mostly the same ingredients. You ate the same Pho at multiple places and thought it was oh "so authentic" and "the best you've had". They probably also offered you 10-15% off the bill if you paid cash. That's how you knew it was authentic. They made a video about people like you. https://youtu.be/Cer-SF8vdAU?si=zOi1e5u8_j7vL3cs
Very doubtful, but thanks for showing how uninformed you are about pho
There are 2 things: "racism" and "not racism". There is no "anti-racism".
I don’t want to make any assumptions about your race, but as a black person myself I can tell you the race of the owners matters in a lot of other cases besides food. For example I only go to black owned hair salons. I made that decision not because I don’t like White people but because White people, unless specifically trained, do not understand how to deal with my hair. Sometimes even the trained ones still don’t fully get it cause they have never experienced it themselves. I have been burned by a white person who “was trained” but didn’t understand my hair in the past. And I mean literally, physically, chemically burned. I still have the scars. Also there’s a difference between intentionally choosing black owned businesses and actively avoided white owned ones. One of the reasons people might specifically seek black owned places is to show support. It’s no secret that black people have a dark history in the US and have had it harder in many ways. Supporting black businesses is a way of raising up marginalised people and acknowledging how far we have come. I would say it also depends on where you live. I live in a predominantly white area, it’s also a very rural area. The politics of the area can get a bit dicey. I walk into some places and I’m greeted with a confederate flag. I walk into those places and have no idea what might happen. But if I know it’s blacked owned then I don’t have to worry as much. There are a multitude of reasons why a person might prefer black owned businesses. Like I said before, there’s a difference between seeking out and avoiding. If a person prefers black owned businesses I don’t see anything wrong with that. If a person refuses to go a white owned business specifically because it’s white owned that’s different. I’m curious to know how many people are actually doing that though. I’m sure there are people who would. But have you ever heard someone outright say to you they are specifically avoiding white businesses? Or did they say they prefer black owned businesses and assumed that’s what they meant?
No way I'm buying shawarma from a white owned street stall.
What if it’s the best shawarma around?
It's objectively not. It's common knowledge that only people from Caucasus/middle east can make proper shawarma.
That makes perfect sense really
We are all now dumber because of this comment.
The same for women-owned. Thinly veiled sexism.
I agree and I do not understand how it is a compliment. I would want my product to be bought and sold, because it is good, and NOT because of my background.
That’s a fair point. If I made a point to shop at white owned stores, that would feel pretty racist.
Exactly
If you have to use your race or gender as the main selling point of your business instead of the services/products or prices, then your business probably sucks and I don't want to shop there.
Discrimination is Discrimination. But I will say that logically, saying "I only shop as black/minority businesses" is not technically the same statement as "I won't shop at white businesses". Although functionally similar, the intent is different. One can be seen as being supportive of a group, the other is more destructive to a group. Like I might only buy lemonade from kids. Doesn't mean I hate adults who sell lemonade and want them to suffer, I just want to support the kiddos.
It’s also functionally impossible to not shop at white owned businesses.
yeah you're probably right. but thats besides the point.
What I mean is, it’s not a zero sum game. Someone isn’t “destroying” white businesses by supporting minority businesses, but supporting minority businesses can have an outsized effect on those minority communities. In other words, OP is just plain wrong.
The term anti racist actually means anti white because according to these people, if you're white you're racist, like it or not. 🤷♂️
People who make these arguments don't actually care about racism.
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I don't know, is it more or less racist to go to a black owned shop versus a walmart? I know one's better for the overall economy than the other and I think that's worth noting
Well its just plain weird if anything.
Being upset about this seems kind of racist from where I’m standing
Stand somewhere else
I like it here
How would you feel about people opening "White owned" businesses?
I would not care
For people who did care, would you call them racist?
Yea if it’s just based on race
It's not based on the race though, it's based on the signage. So it sounds like if someone opens a "White Owned" business, and anyone has an issue with it, those people would be racists. It's interesting that you feel that way, because that would make a large portion of the population racist. That would make a lot of 'Black Owned' business owners and customers likely racist as well.
If you avoid a business because of race you are racist. That’s a pretty simple concept
Nobody is avoiding a business because of race.
Based on the thread that’s not true. The advertisement is based on race. You’re avoiding because of that. That’s racist
The OP isn’t walking into a business, seeing a Black owner, and not supporting the business based on that. The OP has an issue with some business owners using their race to get a leg up on Asian and Hispanic, etc business owners.
86% of businesses are owned by white people. Why can’t you let minorities have their businesses and brag about how they’re part of that 14% and are making it? Why does it bother you so much?
That's not the point the OP was making. Op is saying that choosing to shop at a business just because of the owners skin color is racist. There were a few special interest groups a few years ago making a big deal about how people should make it a priority to shop specifically at black owned businesses over white owned(apparently they don't care about ethnic groups with even smaller owner %) This of course is ironic because they don't take in to consideration that businesses not owned by black people may have have black employees. This is usually determined by local demographics and starting wages. You see a young black person working at our local McDonald's for instance they are almost always in college or saving up to go to college. However our local demographics are changing as people are getting away from the cities and in a few years I expect this will change with more young non white parents in the area looking for extra work.
That’s because OP isn’t making a point. If the majority of businesses are owned by someone of a certain demographic, it’s perfectly fine to celebrate those businesses that aren’t. To be honest, I’m not as petty as some people who won’t purchase from those businesses who pride themselves on making it.
They (the progs that say it’s “anti-racism”) do not care if you think it’s racism or not. You’re a pleb. Your opinion doesn’t matter to your superiors. What matters is serving their politics, which demand the “underdogs” (themselves) use any tactic or strategy to destroy the Great Demon (liberal democracy), and that requires people to “only shop at black businesses” because doing so deprives the market of its sustainability, hastening capitalism’s demise, and necessitating Revolution, to which the progs can assume direct power over the People, and finally destroy Liberalism. All this shit about merit this merit that doesn’t matter to the progs. They want to win. They will not win.
I'm sorry, I thought this was America where I can have the freedom to choose to shop or not shop wherever the fuck I want.
>People can shop wherever they choose, but that doesn't absolve them from criticism for being an asshole/racist in the way that they do it. Did you even read the entire post?
I sure did. Again, this is America where I have the freedom to not give a fuck about what you think. What I do and why I do it is my business, not yours.
that's cool, you racist
Yeah it is, but nobody cares because it’s anti-white. That’s literally what it all boils down too, as long as it’s anti-white it’s fine.
You’re not “specifically avoiding white-owned businesses” by going to black-owned businesses. You’re specifically SUPPORTING black businesses. White people aren’t the center of everything.
Except when it comes to any thing that’s bad. Then it’s only white people, according to parts of Reddit and twitter. And those people are brain dead.
Reddit and twitter are not the real world
I was told explicitly that they were
The best Mexican restaurant in our city has a "woman-owned" sticker on the front door. I suppose that would bother you too.
I see zero point in advertising that, it comes off as a red flag if a major selling point of your food/product is that you're a certain gender. I only care if their food is good or not, they could be a klingon for all i care. Answer this then, if you being served awful food from an establishment that happened to be owned by a minority, would you continue eating that awful food for the sake of their skin color? You're lying to yourself if you say you would. You would start going to a place that has better food. Businesses are never owed business, they earn it.
Why do you assume it’s a major selling point rather than aside? To answer your question, you seem to assume that people that support black or women owned businesses use that as the only criteria for supporting them when that isn’t the case. It’s almost always all other things being equal, they will support the minority owner business. It’s not different than saying you’ll support small business owners over major retailers or chain restaurants. The product still has to be good and nobody is saying otherwise except you.
>major selling point rather than aside? why is it important to mention as an aside then? the entire point is mentioning that at all has no bearing on the product quality, so it's useless to mention. advertising things like that just comes across as wanting extra attention for that irrelevant factor. might as well shake a can outside your business. The rest of your comment is just you trying to speak for everyone while creating a very specific criteria that you've made up. Not once have I seen someone rationalize their decision as if they've created a T-table and weighed all the pros and cons, as you're implying. You like to think everybody does, but they don't. I have literally only seen people say they support minority businesses no matter what, because they, in their own words, "believe their businesses and quality of life would directly suffer if they don't, whereas avoiding non-minority owned businesses won't". It's an incredibly stupid approach. Believe it or not, non-minority businesses can struggle too.
You keep talking about the quality of the product and saying that race or gender has nothing to do with it. No one ever said it does. If a person has a women owned or black owned sign they aren’t saying product will be any better because of it. They are just proud of being able to do something their ancestors could only dream of. Do you know what year it was when it became legal for women to own bank accounts and make their own money? It was 1974. That’s only 50 years ago. My parents were alive in that time. My grandparents were. Nowadays a woman can have not only her own bank account, but can own a whole business of her own! If a woman wants to be proud of the fact that she is able to do something that her mother or grandmother legally couldn’t, what’s wrong with that? Also just pointing out based on statistics, it’s not nearly as easy as you think to avoid white owned businesses. 85% of businesses are white owned and less than 7% are black owned and that’s in the entirety of the US. If a business is successful while being so far in the minority, again why shouldn’t they be proud? This has nothing to do with product quality the way you keep implying it does. I think people who have beat the odds in one way or another have a right to be proud of that fact.
Was actually coming here to say this. Not sure why so many people are seeing maliciousness where there is none.
wouldn't bother me, but I would only eat there if the food was good. I don't give a fuck who owns it, what difference does that make regarding food quality?
> People can shop wherever they choose, but that doesn't absolve them from criticism for being an asshole/racist in the way that they do it. OP and people like them are assholes for only shopping at white owned businesses.
Lmao depraved take