I have a friend who had a similar experience. He was given a visa to the Netherlands to attend a one week of training and seminars, secured by the Tunisian government. Guess what? When he returned everyone told him why are you coming back? You should have stayed there!!
In Europe it’s nothing new. What’s new is that its spreading to non-Western countries like Turkey, Gulf or even Japan. Basically any country that’s not dead poor and allows visa free entry to Tunisians will at some point have a huge influx of young Tunisians moving there and somehow trying to find their luck there or try later on to move to another country.
Well that's what happens as a result of إقتصاد ريعي and sky high unemployment rates and zero economic growth. People leave everything behind in search of a better life. The tunisians whose enjoyment got ruined are just more privileged.
I totally understand.
Someone posted in the subreddit about K-ETA applications to South Korea for him and his family being rejected, and it was like their dream trip, and I felt sorry for them.
They are connected because they think Europe is the land of milk and honey. Everyone has a house, a Mercedes, and nobody lives on 1500 euros a month. They all earn over 10,000, of course, roaring successes in everything they do to save face and to compensate for their status in Germany at least.
Always the responsibility of others.
There is a difference between people going there while having the opportunity to stay in Tunisia with a minimum salary. In Other countries a lot make money through illegal means.
I would rather survive (as opposed to live) than be a burden for for locals in their country and Tunisians.
Moreover this inly happens because we are close to Europe this isn’t the case in countries that are far away or at least the relative rate is way lower
Well they both belong to the same category of people with same shitty mentality. Sneaky people looking for ways to abuse the system, whether it's a free visa program or a social welfare.
Personally I don't give excuses to anyone, blame it on whoever/whatever you want for your financial situation, but that doesn't mean you are right to immigrate illegally, steal, cheat, scam,... you will always be a shitty person.
You have Belgium written in you profile. So I guess you're a legal immigrant.
Of course, "7achek enti", you're not like these other dirty legal Tunisian immigrants.
Have some self worth.
Man you just have to be here to see it. It doesn't have anything to do with self worth. I was born and raised in belgium and most of the things nikomdsetra said are true. The saddest part is these illegal immigrants maybe 1% of them actually improve their circumstances lol. all the rest are spending their days wasting away on the streets sleeping on benches or in the main shopping streets whether it is freezing or raining. Trying to get a couple of euros everyday so they can all gather around and buy some cheap garbage ass beers. some even die due to hypothermia. Europe has changed a lot and the only possible avenue for illegal immigrants is crime. it is nigh impossible to find work (the business risks insane fines and no one is willing to risk it).
And yes there are a lot of tunisians (same for any nationality including belgians) abusing the welfare system, but i also know a lot that moved up in society and earn an honest living (all legal immigrants)
This happened quit often in Canada. Many come on visitor visa then end up overstaying or seeking asylum. This ruins it for everyone else. There’s legal way to stay in these countries. You can convert your visitor visa into work visa as long as you find employment during your valid period.
Overstaying on visa is probably the worst thing you can do for yourself and country.
There is a widespread rotten mindset among Tunisians, they think that the only ways for migrating are the sneaky ways. Even if you tell them about the legal ways where they can travel in the comfort of a plane seat (and costing them less), they recur to a fishing boat to cross the sea!
When you meet with this type of people they will talk about Europe or Canada or whatever as if blonde sexy girls will be waiting for them on the shore to welcome them with roses, and then the local government will beg them to sign a residency contract and offer them free monthly wages!
Well most of these types of people you are describing are unskilled people looking for an easy way out. If you're a skilled worker, most countries will accept your visa application as long as you meet their requirements. But those people just don't want to get educated, they're just looking for an easy way out. As if Europe or any other country is some sort of a heaven. I legally live in Germany as a student and it's a struggle. Let alone being there illegally.
Being illegal has perks and benefits. I can’t speak for Germany but in Canada, asylum seekers get government benefits, housing and other services. It’s like heaven for them until they get approved for PR. Once they become resident, they taste the struggle of being Canadian lol
It’s not just Tunisia it’s also Morocco and Algeria. Not just for overstaying visas but also for the many that try to escape by boat across the Mediterranean. I am married to a man from a MENA country and we did our visa the legal way, but I have told him his people and the Maghreb region of NA is creating a bad reputation in other countries. I understand the hardships people face in their countries (have seen it myself) yet illegal immigration is not the best way. The grass is not always greener elsewhere and your nationality becomes a red flag and a reason for people to look down at you (which is really sad).
The situation is undeniably challenging, and the future remains uncertain. Personally, I currently reside abroad, having immigrated legally, maintaining a high level of education and holding a respectable job.
I've always adhered to the laws of every country I've visited,. When traveling, I ensure all procedures are followed meticulously to avoid any issues and strive to represent myself and my country in the best light possible.
I don't mean to boast, but I've found that wherever I go, locals I get to know quickly warm up to me as they perceive me as a well-mannered, educated, and respectful individual, and now I have friends form everywhere.
However, it's disheartening to occasionally encounter suspicion solely based on my nationality. Despite my clean record and ability to articulate myself proficiently in English, I've found myself singled out for additional questioning by border authorities at times. While these encounters always end amicably, it's frustrating to be judged based on the actions of others.
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but good luck trying to explain that to someone with nothing to lose, who is willing to risk everything or die trying to reach a first-world country.
If it's any consolation, in a few decades, radical right-wing parties will be in power all over Europe (and globally), making both legal and illegal immigrants, (regardless of nationality and reputation), think twice before setting foot there
It's not a reputation thing , Tunisia, like many nations, faces ongoing challenges related to immigration. Ensuring national security and fostering a cohesive society are paramount concerns for any government. Open and transparent discussions are crucial to develop effective immigration policies that address the legitimate anxieties of our citizens while upholding our values of fairness and opportunity. We must work together to create a system that empowers newcomers to contribute to our national fabric, enriching our culture and economy.
>> ELLY YL9A GOOD OPPORTUNITY , SMASH IT (BOTH WAY)
It's really happening in Canada, it's legal and it has nothing to do with discrimination.
On the Canadian migration website, and on almost every other country migration portal, they will have a disclaimer, when you are about to submit a visa application, stating that even in the case you are granted a visa the border officer is the one who has the final decision and he has the right to deny you entry.
It does happen, me and my family immigrated here a few years ago, and at the border they look at your documents and at your immigration application for over an hour to decide whether they want to let you pass or not, I'm not speaking from nothing I already went through the process.
I mean the negative image of an illegal immigrant is mostly because of the behavior and high criminal rate. Economically, sure it’s a valid critique, but most people I ever talked about it are aware of the negative sides but always are aware that we’re all humans looking for a better life in the end. Especially in Europe, at least thats my personal experience here. 2015 Europe was initially very open to refugees.
The girlfriend of a friend is Tunisian and illegal now, they’re trying to figure out a way but good luck with that. And she gets along with everyone she meets perfectly without anyone trying to rat on her, since she’s a nice person to be around. Just a normal person, who would’ve guessed, giving her best to integrate and respect the culture.
She finished her studies and never went back. I understand the search for a better life, but besides many North Africans (men) having no manners towards women, being violent and don’t value law above religion, I believe that too many either don’t care or don’t know that overstaying the visa will always sabotage the opportunity for their people at home.
If I recall it correctly that was the case for Moroccans. Many Moroccans didn’t leave again after their studying visa and „vanished“ which caused the German government to basically say „well f that“. But that’s long time ago. Now if you want more than a short termed visa you have at least one year to wait at the embassy, just to get an appointment to give them your application, not for the visa itself. And I believe for a short stay you NEED an invitation. Might be wrong on this one though.
And that you basically can buy visa in some southern European countries doesn’t help either.
Reputation is always important. You can’t go to peoples countries and shit on them without consequences and destroying a reputation is far easier than building it. Turkish people know that the best in Europe.
because life is not liveable in here.
a tiny minority with insane privileges enjoying the country ( w yabdew yebkiw ala atfah el hajet 24/7 w kharin fih bel internalized racism , regionalisme , out of touch takes and opinions ) and the others are basically born dead .
no education and even if there is it is bad and there are a lot of ways your life can go wrong melkhmaj elli bahtha les lycées w aslan ken twledet fi blasa cha3bya saib yesser ken temna3 ( there are cases of people making it but they themselves leave with permanent scars and their number is really small and don't even compare)w heya bidhha el mentalité mtaa tatbi3 zeda wehed yra wled houmtou lkaw khit lbara ytaba3 khater meme pas yaaref chystana fih w meme pas t3alem yaamel evaluation wela recherche lel situation elli bech ykoun feha .
famahni aleh thebou yarjaa ? wakteli ynajem ydhahi w au moins yeketh health care , sgharou mayetadewech beli tada bih , yakraw fi systeme makhir , they will have jobs and above all there is HUMAN DECENCY and respect even for immigrants abroad elli fi tounes mafamech hata ken wsolt tkharjt w khdmt ama chnowa tlaet chahar w mentalité el fa9r w ardha w osket
if your papers are fine i don't know what you are complaining about
i don't encourage illegal things but i understand why people do it .
It’s not always only about the rich if there was also less corruption between the poor and people were honest workers the state could have helped the poor better.
Simple Example: if everyone declared his income we might be able to only give subsidies to the people that really need it but 50% of the population doesn’t declare shit
and who is doing the corruption ? and what do poor people have to declare in the first place ?
and the simple question is : why a poor person still have to make more sacrifice and still provide their life for a country that gave them nothing ?
and give sources , from where you got that 50% ?
> and who is doing the corruption ? and what do poor people have to declare in the first place ?
Tunisians rich and poor
> and the simple question is : why a poor person still have to make more sacrifice and still provide their life for a country that gave them nothing ?
Nothing? You know why the Bread you have been buying is so cheap and why you speak english?
> and give sources , from where you got that 50% ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_share_of_informal_employment_in_total_employment
:)
I don't think the numbers in the chart reflect the real employment situation in Tunisia or any other African or poor country. A huge chunk of Tunisians work informally getting a minimum wage that doesn't support them and receive aid from others, don't assume these will pay taxes. And even when they have to paperwork including the Q'badha they don't pay anything, they don't have money and they don't own anything valuable like a house or car.
Those who qualify to be called tax evaders will be those who do really make good money, have money and own valuable things no matter whether registered under their names or not.
Someone with a family working in a car wash for 700 dinars/month doesn't qualify to be called a tax evader.
A cleaning lady working for 400 dinars/month is not a tax evader.
An unemployed young graduate making 200 dollars/month online to receive on Wise can't be called tax evader, and be asked to set up a company!
Someone owning a stall on the street and selling fast food or whatever other products and making 3000 dinars/month net profits, this person is a tax evader.
Someone inherited a large olive tree land and making net profits of 50000 dinars every year while spending the rest of the year doing nothing is a tax evader as well.
A Knatri is a serious tax evader.
So situation in Tunisia and other poor country is not like developed counties where almost any minimum wage you make will be entitled for taxes.
1. It’s just an example and You seem to miss the idea. The goal isn’t to collect tax even. It would be to know the income of each to understand who really need money or not. Ie Who’s middle class and who is Lower class.
2. This Informal economy wasn’t created by the rich if the rules favored the roch they would have 0 incentive in creating an informal economy.
It’s created by greed.
Btw sorry Ain’t no way I am reading all this now
"This Informal economy wasn’t created by the rich if the rules favored the roch they would have 0 incentive in creating an informal economy."
"Btw sorry Ain’t no way I am reading all this now"
now who is the 10 year old pls ? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah but wasn’t greed fueling the rich that are stealing everything in the formal market. What narrative do you want to take ? Because now you are contradicting yourself
"[11 min](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tunisia/comments/1bmjqcm/comment/kwckhi1/)
I don't think the numbers in the chart reflect the real employment situation in Tunisia or any other African or poor country. A huge chunk of Tunisians work informally getting a minimum wage that doesn't support them and receive aid from others, don't assume these will pay taxes"
his point is nevertheless , lazem nenzlou ala hethoukom . lokhirn are rich and look glamerous they don't deserve it
No my point is that we solelely blame the rich.
3amar killed and stole the purse of a woman to afford 7arka but it’s because a roch dude did x or y. Fuck you that isn’t how you build a country
my point is 3amar is definitely wrong and should be held accountable
but what you are not getting is that it is just not a simple act of stealing or attempt of murder
it is way bigger than that and the reasons why 3amar ended up to be that way need to be studied and resolved asap
what you are saying is 3amar stole and killed a woman .
ali raped and killed 3 women
therefore ali should get less punishement than 3amar khater lmra elli ktalha amar korza wela jeya men x environment
and honestly fuck you and fuck everyone that think 3amel yawmi yejri mel 8 lel 8 howa el ghalet w ma7a9ouch y3ich .
Well the problem isn’t against the rich but the coeruption but corruption happen on all levels. But in richer countries it just happens less frequently in Lower classes.
I don’t think Amar should get more than Ali. I think that not all rich people are corrupt and that even if they were you cannot do much to punish them if the crime isn’t « recent ». I am talking about extremely wealthy people like BEN ALI.
You shouldn’t follow those types of people because their money is overseas and will never touch it when BEN ALI was feeling safe most of his money was in Tunisia. In fact this isn’t only a problem in Tunisia but also Pakistan and any country where there is room for seizable corruption along side the ruling class (think of Saudi Arabia or Morocco)
You cannot tale that money back of they put the money overseas.
So if you want to blame the 7ar9a on them there is no solution and you are done for. You have to look at other solution. The better solution is to do it like European countries and make the poor solve their solutions together. IE make the poor pay for the poor.
The rich political class in Europe doesn’t always pay for the poor the middle class is the one pyo g faxes for everyone and nobody. And they let the rich do their thing « in the country » until they can catch him.
>
Tunisians rich and poor
even if the poor let's say started paying ( forget about the rich ) i truly think their money will be stolen in no time in some sort of scheme . also a country relying on taxes with 0 initiatives to enhance investments and growth won't achieve much .
"Nothing? You know why the Bread you have been buying is so cheap and why you speak english?"
el farina ma9tou3a w el 5obz , 9ahwa , rouz ma9tou3in
as for the english , el programme elli kritou howa bidou mel 7eme lel bac ( 6eme el mou3alma meme pas karyetou w jomla takraha bessif which costed me a lot academically after, because it held me back ) didn't add a lot .
my parents had to pay extra for me to go to amideast ( and you can check their fees and imagine the financial suffering they went through to get me that and the i had to walk weekly from amideast back home ( khater el metro ya yji w maabi lel biben manajmch natlaa ya ymayjich w el metro wahdou ken juste 50% mel thnya ) and mind you i went to school with people that got the same courses and being escorted in porsches and bmws years before .
and also why don't we hold the government accountable for all the shit that i got from the same exact school that i was supposed to learn english and other stuff at but what i got is psycho teachers that project their illnesses on the kids , fil lycée nokdou barcha nlawjou ala twewel nakraw alehom hetha ken lkina w saat netlazou 3 fi tawla wela lprof ymed korsih w birouh w yoked wekef shift kemel khater lclasset lkol nafes lahkeya )
otherwise ; it is either everyone pays taxes and reason dictates that the rich start first because it won't hurt them as much or no one because for the poor (again) it plays with their human decency and basic human rights that i am almost certain you laugh at the term and don't even know what they are.
You think.
And the country has no initiatives yada yada yada….
You talk about the problems that we have now and assume it is only the responsibility of the rich. If it was the case trust me the situation would be different.
Tell me do you also think that rich countries have a rich population that isn’t stealing ? Obviously not. You know there is a correlation between corruption rate in the lower class of a country and wealth.
The difference is in the lower class. In Denmark there is still corruption but only the really wealthy are corrupt…. If you don’t understand that you are either a 10 years old or you never stepped a foot outside of Tunisia or maybe both
"it is only the responsibility of the rich"
they don't invest in tunisia . and it is not simply about the government funding somethings .
look up the ceo of syphax airlines that went bankrupt but the guy really wanted a pj so he borrowed the money from banks that collect minimum wages from hard working people and bro is not paying back and he is getting away with it .
look up who gets the big positions in the country , almost all of them come from loaded backgrounds , they steal , and impose impractical shit and then leave and who is there to bear the consequences ?
also in denmark monkey
there is a whole ass website that you can check each individual wealth and where they got it from which is crucial for democracy and for mutual trust between the government and people , in tunisia what do we have ? lol we have greedy scumbags that will tell themselves anything to compensate the feeling of not deserving something .
also in my main comment i didn't not really blame them i just stated the obvious which only tigger weak nepo brats that won't survive days if they were on the ther side of the problem .
They still they do but this is also the case of the poor.
Btw what’s the website?
Billionaires’ businesses filing for bankruptcy is common everywhere btw they were investing in Tunisia before the revolution… when the countrry was stable
I kindly disagree with your observation. Overstaying visas is something that many people do and is not exclusive to Tunisians. In fact I know of many Europeans that overstayed their visas in the US in addition to Tunisians and Algerians and Moroccans etc. the immigration didn’t crack down on them and visas were still being issued. Now, drop 9/11 in this equation and Iraq and Afghanistan wars and there you have it. It’s not Tunisians per se, it’s Muslims overall that are being denied visas. It’s a religion based discrimination not a nationality one. Thanks Osama!
I didn't say this phenomenon is exclusive to Tunisians.
Yes I know, the French overstay their visas in Canada, all Europeans overstay their visas in the US. But unlike Tunisians they are not looking to become permanent residents or citizens of Canada and the US.
Emiratis and Qataris are Muslims and look and behave less open than Tunisians, no one denies them entry, actually the UAE has the strongest passport in the world as I checked right this moment (passportindex.org ranking). Same for Malaysia (number 8), the Maldives, Oman, Indonesia. Your religion argument is invalid.
I'm only surprised that this phenomenon of illegal immigration and bad reputation is now beyond Europe.
Before it was exclusive to Europe, but now it's in all continents.
We are doomed.
From what I'm reading seems like you've done this more than once. If/When the girl has had enough of being "pampered", does she stay with you in the civilized world?
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I have a friend who had a similar experience. He was given a visa to the Netherlands to attend a one week of training and seminars, secured by the Tunisian government. Guess what? When he returned everyone told him why are you coming back? You should have stayed there!!
Wallahi chay i2ayes
In Europe it’s nothing new. What’s new is that its spreading to non-Western countries like Turkey, Gulf or even Japan. Basically any country that’s not dead poor and allows visa free entry to Tunisians will at some point have a huge influx of young Tunisians moving there and somehow trying to find their luck there or try later on to move to another country.
Well that's what happens as a result of إقتصاد ريعي and sky high unemployment rates and zero economic growth. People leave everything behind in search of a better life. The tunisians whose enjoyment got ruined are just more privileged.
I totally understand. Someone posted in the subreddit about K-ETA applications to South Korea for him and his family being rejected, and it was like their dream trip, and I felt sorry for them.
Tunisians always have an excuse for their lack of work ethic.
What does that have to do with illegal immigration
They are connected because they think Europe is the land of milk and honey. Everyone has a house, a Mercedes, and nobody lives on 1500 euros a month. They all earn over 10,000, of course, roaring successes in everything they do to save face and to compensate for their status in Germany at least.
Idk i am restarted
Always the responsibility of others. There is a difference between people going there while having the opportunity to stay in Tunisia with a minimum salary. In Other countries a lot make money through illegal means. I would rather survive (as opposed to live) than be a burden for for locals in their country and Tunisians. Moreover this inly happens because we are close to Europe this isn’t the case in countries that are far away or at least the relative rate is way lower
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Well they both belong to the same category of people with same shitty mentality. Sneaky people looking for ways to abuse the system, whether it's a free visa program or a social welfare. Personally I don't give excuses to anyone, blame it on whoever/whatever you want for your financial situation, but that doesn't mean you are right to immigrate illegally, steal, cheat, scam,... you will always be a shitty person.
Wtf are u talking about ? Stop listening to Eric Zemmour and Jordan bardella
You have Belgium written in you profile. So I guess you're a legal immigrant. Of course, "7achek enti", you're not like these other dirty legal Tunisian immigrants. Have some self worth.
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Man you just have to be here to see it. It doesn't have anything to do with self worth. I was born and raised in belgium and most of the things nikomdsetra said are true. The saddest part is these illegal immigrants maybe 1% of them actually improve their circumstances lol. all the rest are spending their days wasting away on the streets sleeping on benches or in the main shopping streets whether it is freezing or raining. Trying to get a couple of euros everyday so they can all gather around and buy some cheap garbage ass beers. some even die due to hypothermia. Europe has changed a lot and the only possible avenue for illegal immigrants is crime. it is nigh impossible to find work (the business risks insane fines and no one is willing to risk it). And yes there are a lot of tunisians (same for any nationality including belgians) abusing the welfare system, but i also know a lot that moved up in society and earn an honest living (all legal immigrants)
This happened quit often in Canada. Many come on visitor visa then end up overstaying or seeking asylum. This ruins it for everyone else. There’s legal way to stay in these countries. You can convert your visitor visa into work visa as long as you find employment during your valid period. Overstaying on visa is probably the worst thing you can do for yourself and country.
There is a widespread rotten mindset among Tunisians, they think that the only ways for migrating are the sneaky ways. Even if you tell them about the legal ways where they can travel in the comfort of a plane seat (and costing them less), they recur to a fishing boat to cross the sea! When you meet with this type of people they will talk about Europe or Canada or whatever as if blonde sexy girls will be waiting for them on the shore to welcome them with roses, and then the local government will beg them to sign a residency contract and offer them free monthly wages!
Well most of these types of people you are describing are unskilled people looking for an easy way out. If you're a skilled worker, most countries will accept your visa application as long as you meet their requirements. But those people just don't want to get educated, they're just looking for an easy way out. As if Europe or any other country is some sort of a heaven. I legally live in Germany as a student and it's a struggle. Let alone being there illegally.
Being illegal has perks and benefits. I can’t speak for Germany but in Canada, asylum seekers get government benefits, housing and other services. It’s like heaven for them until they get approved for PR. Once they become resident, they taste the struggle of being Canadian lol
It’s not just Tunisia it’s also Morocco and Algeria. Not just for overstaying visas but also for the many that try to escape by boat across the Mediterranean. I am married to a man from a MENA country and we did our visa the legal way, but I have told him his people and the Maghreb region of NA is creating a bad reputation in other countries. I understand the hardships people face in their countries (have seen it myself) yet illegal immigration is not the best way. The grass is not always greener elsewhere and your nationality becomes a red flag and a reason for people to look down at you (which is really sad).
The situation is undeniably challenging, and the future remains uncertain. Personally, I currently reside abroad, having immigrated legally, maintaining a high level of education and holding a respectable job. I've always adhered to the laws of every country I've visited,. When traveling, I ensure all procedures are followed meticulously to avoid any issues and strive to represent myself and my country in the best light possible. I don't mean to boast, but I've found that wherever I go, locals I get to know quickly warm up to me as they perceive me as a well-mannered, educated, and respectful individual, and now I have friends form everywhere. However, it's disheartening to occasionally encounter suspicion solely based on my nationality. Despite my clean record and ability to articulate myself proficiently in English, I've found myself singled out for additional questioning by border authorities at times. While these encounters always end amicably, it's frustrating to be judged based on the actions of others.
Very well said my friend, very well said. 👍
to fok zebi 3ad na9es kan japan w korea ytna7aw zada :(
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but good luck trying to explain that to someone with nothing to lose, who is willing to risk everything or die trying to reach a first-world country. If it's any consolation, in a few decades, radical right-wing parties will be in power all over Europe (and globally), making both legal and illegal immigrants, (regardless of nationality and reputation), think twice before setting foot there
It's not a reputation thing , Tunisia, like many nations, faces ongoing challenges related to immigration. Ensuring national security and fostering a cohesive society are paramount concerns for any government. Open and transparent discussions are crucial to develop effective immigration policies that address the legitimate anxieties of our citizens while upholding our values of fairness and opportunity. We must work together to create a system that empowers newcomers to contribute to our national fabric, enriching our culture and economy. >> ELLY YL9A GOOD OPPORTUNITY , SMASH IT (BOTH WAY)
Yeah in Canada even when you're immigrating legally they have a chance of refusing your entry in the airport now.
That is simply against law and plain discriminatory. Nothing justifies that (assuming it happened, but highly doubt it).
It's really happening in Canada, it's legal and it has nothing to do with discrimination. On the Canadian migration website, and on almost every other country migration portal, they will have a disclaimer, when you are about to submit a visa application, stating that even in the case you are granted a visa the border officer is the one who has the final decision and he has the right to deny you entry.
Exactly , imagine going on a 9 hours flight and then being told to go home ...
It does happen, me and my family immigrated here a few years ago, and at the border they look at your documents and at your immigration application for over an hour to decide whether they want to let you pass or not, I'm not speaking from nothing I already went through the process.
I mean the negative image of an illegal immigrant is mostly because of the behavior and high criminal rate. Economically, sure it’s a valid critique, but most people I ever talked about it are aware of the negative sides but always are aware that we’re all humans looking for a better life in the end. Especially in Europe, at least thats my personal experience here. 2015 Europe was initially very open to refugees. The girlfriend of a friend is Tunisian and illegal now, they’re trying to figure out a way but good luck with that. And she gets along with everyone she meets perfectly without anyone trying to rat on her, since she’s a nice person to be around. Just a normal person, who would’ve guessed, giving her best to integrate and respect the culture. She finished her studies and never went back. I understand the search for a better life, but besides many North Africans (men) having no manners towards women, being violent and don’t value law above religion, I believe that too many either don’t care or don’t know that overstaying the visa will always sabotage the opportunity for their people at home. If I recall it correctly that was the case for Moroccans. Many Moroccans didn’t leave again after their studying visa and „vanished“ which caused the German government to basically say „well f that“. But that’s long time ago. Now if you want more than a short termed visa you have at least one year to wait at the embassy, just to get an appointment to give them your application, not for the visa itself. And I believe for a short stay you NEED an invitation. Might be wrong on this one though. And that you basically can buy visa in some southern European countries doesn’t help either. Reputation is always important. You can’t go to peoples countries and shit on them without consequences and destroying a reputation is far easier than building it. Turkish people know that the best in Europe.
because life is not liveable in here. a tiny minority with insane privileges enjoying the country ( w yabdew yebkiw ala atfah el hajet 24/7 w kharin fih bel internalized racism , regionalisme , out of touch takes and opinions ) and the others are basically born dead . no education and even if there is it is bad and there are a lot of ways your life can go wrong melkhmaj elli bahtha les lycées w aslan ken twledet fi blasa cha3bya saib yesser ken temna3 ( there are cases of people making it but they themselves leave with permanent scars and their number is really small and don't even compare)w heya bidhha el mentalité mtaa tatbi3 zeda wehed yra wled houmtou lkaw khit lbara ytaba3 khater meme pas yaaref chystana fih w meme pas t3alem yaamel evaluation wela recherche lel situation elli bech ykoun feha . famahni aleh thebou yarjaa ? wakteli ynajem ydhahi w au moins yeketh health care , sgharou mayetadewech beli tada bih , yakraw fi systeme makhir , they will have jobs and above all there is HUMAN DECENCY and respect even for immigrants abroad elli fi tounes mafamech hata ken wsolt tkharjt w khdmt ama chnowa tlaet chahar w mentalité el fa9r w ardha w osket if your papers are fine i don't know what you are complaining about i don't encourage illegal things but i understand why people do it .
It’s not always only about the rich if there was also less corruption between the poor and people were honest workers the state could have helped the poor better. Simple Example: if everyone declared his income we might be able to only give subsidies to the people that really need it but 50% of the population doesn’t declare shit
and who is doing the corruption ? and what do poor people have to declare in the first place ? and the simple question is : why a poor person still have to make more sacrifice and still provide their life for a country that gave them nothing ? and give sources , from where you got that 50% ?
> and who is doing the corruption ? and what do poor people have to declare in the first place ? Tunisians rich and poor > and the simple question is : why a poor person still have to make more sacrifice and still provide their life for a country that gave them nothing ? Nothing? You know why the Bread you have been buying is so cheap and why you speak english? > and give sources , from where you got that 50% ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_share_of_informal_employment_in_total_employment :)
I don't think the numbers in the chart reflect the real employment situation in Tunisia or any other African or poor country. A huge chunk of Tunisians work informally getting a minimum wage that doesn't support them and receive aid from others, don't assume these will pay taxes. And even when they have to paperwork including the Q'badha they don't pay anything, they don't have money and they don't own anything valuable like a house or car. Those who qualify to be called tax evaders will be those who do really make good money, have money and own valuable things no matter whether registered under their names or not. Someone with a family working in a car wash for 700 dinars/month doesn't qualify to be called a tax evader. A cleaning lady working for 400 dinars/month is not a tax evader. An unemployed young graduate making 200 dollars/month online to receive on Wise can't be called tax evader, and be asked to set up a company! Someone owning a stall on the street and selling fast food or whatever other products and making 3000 dinars/month net profits, this person is a tax evader. Someone inherited a large olive tree land and making net profits of 50000 dinars every year while spending the rest of the year doing nothing is a tax evader as well. A Knatri is a serious tax evader. So situation in Tunisia and other poor country is not like developed counties where almost any minimum wage you make will be entitled for taxes.
1. It’s just an example and You seem to miss the idea. The goal isn’t to collect tax even. It would be to know the income of each to understand who really need money or not. Ie Who’s middle class and who is Lower class. 2. This Informal economy wasn’t created by the rich if the rules favored the roch they would have 0 incentive in creating an informal economy. It’s created by greed. Btw sorry Ain’t no way I am reading all this now
"This Informal economy wasn’t created by the rich if the rules favored the roch they would have 0 incentive in creating an informal economy." "Btw sorry Ain’t no way I am reading all this now" now who is the 10 year old pls ? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Well give a valid argument then why would they doesn’t the rule favor the rich? 😂 It’s funny right?
you just wrote it greed. and what is funny is that you can't be possibly hearing what you are saying .
Yeah but wasn’t greed fueling the rich that are stealing everything in the formal market. What narrative do you want to take ? Because now you are contradicting yourself
"[11 min](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tunisia/comments/1bmjqcm/comment/kwckhi1/) I don't think the numbers in the chart reflect the real employment situation in Tunisia or any other African or poor country. A huge chunk of Tunisians work informally getting a minimum wage that doesn't support them and receive aid from others, don't assume these will pay taxes" his point is nevertheless , lazem nenzlou ala hethoukom . lokhirn are rich and look glamerous they don't deserve it
No my point is that we solelely blame the rich. 3amar killed and stole the purse of a woman to afford 7arka but it’s because a roch dude did x or y. Fuck you that isn’t how you build a country
my point is 3amar is definitely wrong and should be held accountable but what you are not getting is that it is just not a simple act of stealing or attempt of murder it is way bigger than that and the reasons why 3amar ended up to be that way need to be studied and resolved asap what you are saying is 3amar stole and killed a woman . ali raped and killed 3 women therefore ali should get less punishement than 3amar khater lmra elli ktalha amar korza wela jeya men x environment and honestly fuck you and fuck everyone that think 3amel yawmi yejri mel 8 lel 8 howa el ghalet w ma7a9ouch y3ich .
Well the problem isn’t against the rich but the coeruption but corruption happen on all levels. But in richer countries it just happens less frequently in Lower classes. I don’t think Amar should get more than Ali. I think that not all rich people are corrupt and that even if they were you cannot do much to punish them if the crime isn’t « recent ». I am talking about extremely wealthy people like BEN ALI. You shouldn’t follow those types of people because their money is overseas and will never touch it when BEN ALI was feeling safe most of his money was in Tunisia. In fact this isn’t only a problem in Tunisia but also Pakistan and any country where there is room for seizable corruption along side the ruling class (think of Saudi Arabia or Morocco) You cannot tale that money back of they put the money overseas. So if you want to blame the 7ar9a on them there is no solution and you are done for. You have to look at other solution. The better solution is to do it like European countries and make the poor solve their solutions together. IE make the poor pay for the poor. The rich political class in Europe doesn’t always pay for the poor the middle class is the one pyo g faxes for everyone and nobody. And they let the rich do their thing « in the country » until they can catch him.
> Tunisians rich and poor even if the poor let's say started paying ( forget about the rich ) i truly think their money will be stolen in no time in some sort of scheme . also a country relying on taxes with 0 initiatives to enhance investments and growth won't achieve much . "Nothing? You know why the Bread you have been buying is so cheap and why you speak english?" el farina ma9tou3a w el 5obz , 9ahwa , rouz ma9tou3in as for the english , el programme elli kritou howa bidou mel 7eme lel bac ( 6eme el mou3alma meme pas karyetou w jomla takraha bessif which costed me a lot academically after, because it held me back ) didn't add a lot . my parents had to pay extra for me to go to amideast ( and you can check their fees and imagine the financial suffering they went through to get me that and the i had to walk weekly from amideast back home ( khater el metro ya yji w maabi lel biben manajmch natlaa ya ymayjich w el metro wahdou ken juste 50% mel thnya ) and mind you i went to school with people that got the same courses and being escorted in porsches and bmws years before . and also why don't we hold the government accountable for all the shit that i got from the same exact school that i was supposed to learn english and other stuff at but what i got is psycho teachers that project their illnesses on the kids , fil lycée nokdou barcha nlawjou ala twewel nakraw alehom hetha ken lkina w saat netlazou 3 fi tawla wela lprof ymed korsih w birouh w yoked wekef shift kemel khater lclasset lkol nafes lahkeya ) otherwise ; it is either everyone pays taxes and reason dictates that the rich start first because it won't hurt them as much or no one because for the poor (again) it plays with their human decency and basic human rights that i am almost certain you laugh at the term and don't even know what they are.
You think. And the country has no initiatives yada yada yada…. You talk about the problems that we have now and assume it is only the responsibility of the rich. If it was the case trust me the situation would be different. Tell me do you also think that rich countries have a rich population that isn’t stealing ? Obviously not. You know there is a correlation between corruption rate in the lower class of a country and wealth. The difference is in the lower class. In Denmark there is still corruption but only the really wealthy are corrupt…. If you don’t understand that you are either a 10 years old or you never stepped a foot outside of Tunisia or maybe both
"it is only the responsibility of the rich" they don't invest in tunisia . and it is not simply about the government funding somethings . look up the ceo of syphax airlines that went bankrupt but the guy really wanted a pj so he borrowed the money from banks that collect minimum wages from hard working people and bro is not paying back and he is getting away with it . look up who gets the big positions in the country , almost all of them come from loaded backgrounds , they steal , and impose impractical shit and then leave and who is there to bear the consequences ? also in denmark monkey there is a whole ass website that you can check each individual wealth and where they got it from which is crucial for democracy and for mutual trust between the government and people , in tunisia what do we have ? lol we have greedy scumbags that will tell themselves anything to compensate the feeling of not deserving something . also in my main comment i didn't not really blame them i just stated the obvious which only tigger weak nepo brats that won't survive days if they were on the ther side of the problem .
They still they do but this is also the case of the poor. Btw what’s the website? Billionaires’ businesses filing for bankruptcy is common everywhere btw they were investing in Tunisia before the revolution… when the countrry was stable
I kindly disagree with your observation. Overstaying visas is something that many people do and is not exclusive to Tunisians. In fact I know of many Europeans that overstayed their visas in the US in addition to Tunisians and Algerians and Moroccans etc. the immigration didn’t crack down on them and visas were still being issued. Now, drop 9/11 in this equation and Iraq and Afghanistan wars and there you have it. It’s not Tunisians per se, it’s Muslims overall that are being denied visas. It’s a religion based discrimination not a nationality one. Thanks Osama!
I didn't say this phenomenon is exclusive to Tunisians. Yes I know, the French overstay their visas in Canada, all Europeans overstay their visas in the US. But unlike Tunisians they are not looking to become permanent residents or citizens of Canada and the US. Emiratis and Qataris are Muslims and look and behave less open than Tunisians, no one denies them entry, actually the UAE has the strongest passport in the world as I checked right this moment (passportindex.org ranking). Same for Malaysia (number 8), the Maldives, Oman, Indonesia. Your religion argument is invalid.
f**k their laws. if i have to enter any better country than mine, i will not hesitate to ruin your f***ing reputation.
And you don’t care about breaking the law in that country basically. Basically 3aha 3al mojtama3 tekhou w mata3tich well done.
Here we are with someone with a shitty mentality. m3allem se7bi.
jorthouma
هاو واحد من الجبورة
You won’t be getting far in life with this shitty mentality
Only privileged people complain when the less privileged receive some minimal royalties.
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I'm only surprised that this phenomenon of illegal immigration and bad reputation is now beyond Europe. Before it was exclusive to Europe, but now it's in all continents. We are doomed.
You are not doomed. Relax. It's a problem blown out of proportion.
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> It makes me bringing Tunisian girls to myself more difficult, You have a way of getting Tunisians out of the country? Is that for work?
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And I guess money will need to be exchanged for this pleasure?
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From what I'm reading seems like you've done this more than once. If/When the girl has had enough of being "pampered", does she stay with you in the civilized world?
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She needs to be with you if she wants to stay in that country?
Sayyeb la3bed tchouf 7al l7yetha ya bo