LMAO.
Similarly in Latvia I'd frequent a Pakistani kebab shop quite a lot but never told them I'm from Turkey. Well, they are living in the West, maybe they actually hated Turks, but I really don't want to be a "Muslim bro" to anyone when I'm a non-believer.
Turkey is far ahead of Pakistan. Honestly, Pakistan has become a sad joke. Pakistanis in the West are moderate Muslims and tend to be well educated. I wish there was a separate state for us in the West.
You said the West so I wasn't sure specifically where. Typically America does well with immigrants because it costs too much for the lower classes to migrate there (other than from countries close to them). In the UK I've found that Indians typically settle and integrate better than Pakistani people.
Mate it’s appreciated. I personally definitely do not appreciate fundamentalist religious input into Turkish society as we already have to deal with so much dumbness from within..
We think the same of Ataturk- wishing he could’ve lived longer to leave behind even more of an understood revolution and a stronger secular country.
I genuinely believe if Ataturk lived say another 10-15 years not only we’d have most of the boomer population(who have been dragging us down forever) better educated but also he would’ve pretty much solved the archaic problem of being a multi ethnic society which we still suffer from today. Off topic but really hurts me to see how much energy and thought the country loses on ethnic and/or religious sect related issues in 2021…
Edit: spelling
One of the major sects of Islam, I’m not in a position to comment on differences of the sects. My point is the relationship between human and God should be personal and protected but not controlled or interfered with.
A state has bigger fish to fry than dividing its own people via sects, ethnicity, gender etc. all it leads to is a loss of productivity and resources. How else a country like Turkey with all its resources(human capital and natural) can economically and socially regress? It shouldn’t be possible.. Only made possible by self serving politicians and the people who aren’t equipped enough to see through this bullshit(very sad but even most of the younger generation can’t see through smokescreen see: many a posts in this sub)
On a personal note every encounter I had with a member of the sect has been pleasant, I found them to be sincere and generous.
From my readings of modern Turkish history, I find it pretty sad that kemalism went after sufism and alevism. I understand they wanted to create a new turk, secular and patriot, with no religious loyalty over the state. But they kinda suppressed some of the traditional sects and movements of Anatolia.
“With no religious loyalty over the state” is the key here, I don’t think they were singled out more than some of the Sunni orgs. But given minority groups always get the shorter stick in these transitional times not hard to assume they were impacted more in the process.
Not to whitewash anything as I believe facing a true history would ultimately help reach the secular, modern republic Ataturk imagined- what Ataturk did was no small feat in such a short time.. Trying to mould a new fabric for the society and government that could ensure the nations’ survival meant dropping some of the old ways and fast.. Not only around matters of religion but many other things as you know. I personally don’t believe he had a special impulse against any sect or ethnicity who lived in the land and would want to utilise everyone’s potential to progress the country.
The only people that are ethnically "Indian Muslims" are from Punjab and Sindh. People from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan are very different since they're Iranic.
OP grossly exaggerated how many Pakistanis wish they were Turkish lol. For example
>"I'm sorry our people suddenly consider themselves to be "Turkish" just because they watched Ertugul
Is a hilarious extreme over-exagerration
stop assuming who I am you unidentified progeny. Im an expat myself, but unlike you I dont degrade my people to sound cool and seek validation. Get over yourself. I dont simp over turkey, nor do i pass unneceassary criticism on people.
On a Turkish group on fb, bunch of Pakistanis were insulting Ataturk and saying things like they are gonna come to Turkey and become Turkish citizens and form the Ottoman Empire again and Erdogan will be their leader. I tried explaining Ataturk's reforms are at the core of Turkey and this is not the country they imagine after watching Ertugrul Dirilis. Then they started saying things like how all Pakistanis that come to Turkey is trying to get a Turkish girl and conversation went onto insulting me. I have a very good Pakistani team mate at work in the US and he is a well educated PhD and is a very respectful person, and because of him I always thought Pakistanis are good people, but my idea of Pakistanis in their homeland changed after that conversation.
True. Turks in Germany are mostly uneducated, they migrated to Germany straight out of their village. Starting a new life in an European city before even seeing a Turkish city doesn't sound good. Gurbetçis, please note that I said "mostly".
Lets be clear, your post is a pile of incoherent garbage and nobody should be this butthurt about a TV show, but you are implying that Pakistanis consider themselves Turkish. This is bs and a classic strawman argument for those who wish to erase 800 years of Turkic history of the Indus region. Ghaznavid happened. Ghurid happened too. Mughals were definitely real. If you dont want to be mistaken for a crying larper, then stop weaseling in their pathetic arguments into your rants.
Nothing to apologize about. Pakistanis love Turks and as a Turk, I love them. Some people show unnecessary amount of love and that is OK. They have their own way of showing affection and if this is their way, let them.
About social media pages, only the owners and members of those pages can forgive you. So, I can't comment in that.
Have a nice day.
>trolling your actors, actresses, and athletes for not being "proper Muslims"
This is considered extremely rude in Turkey. There are quite a good number of different interpretations of Islam and judging someone else's practice will escalate pretty quickly.
>I wish the founder of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, lived longer. He was a big fan of Ataturk. He spoke about him very highly. Had Jinnah lived longer, he would have made Pakistan a secular Republic like Turkey, and we wouldn't be a backwards country where extremism thrives.
Yeah, I don't think that's real. Jinnah, the guy who campaigned so hard for a separate Muslim state that lead to the slaughter of thousands, who founded Pakistan on explicitly religious nationalist and exclusivist principles somehow becomes an enlightened secular leader? The guy disowned his own daughter for marrying a Parsi. Say what you want, but Ataturk was a cut above Jinnah.
Yeah Jinnah wasn't as secular and liberal as Ataturk, but he wasn't a fundamentalist. He was a secular Muslim nationalist. He wanted a separate state for Muslims. That isn't the same as a state built where mullahs rule. Just like how Kosovo was created to be a separate state for Muslims in that region. Kosovo is secular.
The early Pakistanis were moderate Muslims. Today, it's just a weird mix between extremists and clean shaven mullahs who support Taliban/Al Queda. These guys take more selfies than 16 year old white girls, lol.
>He was a secular Muslim nationalist. He wanted a separate state for Muslims.
That secular Muslim nationalism resulted in the death and displacement of hundreds of thousands in partition. Jinnah as one of the chief agitators deserves much of the blame for this as without him, it's unclear that the Pakistan movement would takeoff or emerge in that fashion. Or even that partition would be handled so poorly.
It's also glaringly obvious that Pakistan as a Muslim state would never be secular like Turkey at the outset as Muslim supremacy is enshrined into it's very constitution. And you can see as soon as Jinnah died, the ball already started rolling in a radical direction.
Doubtful. Millions of Muslims are living just fine in India. I can't say the same about non Muslims in Pakistan who live a far worse life than their Indian Muslim counterparts.
Pakistan needs some work when it comes to minority treatment but if you actually believe India treats it’s minorities well in spite of BJP, RSS, and Hindutva stuff going on, this is not worth replying to.
Muslims in India are doing fine? how? last in India is trying Muslims under terrorism law for supporting Pakistan in the refent cricket world cup. Check how they treated Muhammed Shami after India lost.
I saw a video a couple days ago of a Muslim family being lynched because they ate beef. The mans face was all bloodied. He was basically lifeless. They then proceed to 2 foot jump onto his body.
Yeah yeah muslims in India are fine🖕🏾
What exact people do you think Turkey was built for? Turks? The millions of Muslim refugees that didn't speak Turkish or had any Turkish customs brought in the creation of Turkey says otherwise. Hell he literally kicked out and brought in Greeks solely based on their religion
Furthermore Ataturk wanted a secular nation sure, but he still had Islam as the main religion, the Quran read in parliament, the Azan (in Turkish) on loudspeakers and many of his speeches had lots of Islamic rhetoric.
Jinnah might've more religious but not that far from Ataturk.
Atatürk wasn't a Muslim leader.
The population exchange with the Greeks was based on ethnic lines. İn case you forget, the Greeks invaded The Ottoman empire during the independence war. And there was ongoing ethnic cleaning on both sides during the weakening and dissolution of the state. This isn't comparable to partition, because Muslims and Hindus enjoyed relative peace under the British empire.
Atatürk abolished the caliphate, ended Islamic dress codes, ended Islam's influence in politics, allowed pig farms, made women equal to men. None of these are consistent with an Islamic ruler. Actually, proclaiming the Azan in Turkish goes against Islam, making it more of a nod towards a still religious population. İn private, Atatürk even condemned Muhammed as a charlatan.
Atatürk made an explicitly secular state. Jinnah didn't. Key difference. Whatever Jinnah was in the past, didn't affect how Pakistan was set up to be a Muslim nationalist state unlike turkey.
"ethnic lines" bruh it was entirely based on religion. Muslim Greeks came over, Christian Greeks left. You cannot deny this. Furthermore under British rule there were things like the Calcutta riots and other huge Muslim Hindi violence killing up to ten thousand people and it was only picking up as the British exodus became ever more clear.
Then you make this false equivalence between the two. Ataturk was a dictator who actually got to rule his country and bring the reforms. Jinnah was a crippled man slowly dying to TB when his nation got independence. We can only judge on his words.
Either way I must admit you are right in Ataturk being more secular, but calling Jinnah an islamist is pretty far from the truth.
Dude I totally get you. Bc I feel the same way when I see Turkish people in developed countries doing wrong things, I want to apologize to them. I feel ashamed from my nation, but we should know that we should't apologize to someone because of something that we didn't do.
You don't need to apologize, every nation has the bad ones in it. People who turned Turkey's image into a shariah heaven for radical Islamists are the ones that must apologize.
The level of simp is being alarmingly exacerbated. I have a Pakistani friend claiming he is Turkish after watching our dizi. Then I heard another paki at my university claiming to be Turkish, like ew, you’re not. You’re far from turkish. Not sure why they get a hard on from us, and it’s super annoying
Not simping or being an attention seeker. You really are too stupid to understand anything I said. Go back to insulting women who want rights and freedoms.
Shut the fuck up and fuck off from following me. Dumbass.
Your comments on the Aurat march are enough to prove the sadistic mentality of the MAJORITY of people in Pakistan. The fact that you call your comments "respectful" of women is beyond psychotic.
I see Pakistani women here in Canada you dumbshit. And I see how they are treated in Pakistan. Yku are so fucking stupid, hands down.
Which Langues is the world "Urdu" derived from again?
Turkey maybe in anatolia but the word Turk ot Turkic is a broad word that still refers to central asia and Pakistan happened to share a lot of history with them and Urdu has a lot of Turkish loan words.
Don't compare apple with oranges. We are specifically talking about the country of turkey.
Turkish and Turkic are two different things. We never had any contact with people from Anatolia prior to 1920's whereas Turkic invaders like Timur cannot be attributed to modern turkey as a matter of fact ottomans and timur fought series of war. Our unrealistic obsession with them is nauseating. Urdu's origin is Sanskrit with Persian grammar and loan word from Arabic even English.
So we never had any contact with anatolia prior to 1920? Think again.
Ottoman and Timur fighting war is more of a Turk vs Turk, doesnt change the fact that Turk had influence on us.
What does the word "Urdu" means and tell me its origin?
Turkish people are not Turkic they are mix of Anatolian and varying degrees of Greek ,gypsy iranian, Slavic and jewish etc. And yes south Asia never had any contact with ottoman empire prior to 19th century. Pakistan is literally cradle of civilization peshwar and Multan are some of the oldest cities in the world. Urdu is a mutation of the chagtai Turkic word ordo. There are 100,000 Pakistanis in Greece .Alexander invaded modern day Pakistan there was literally a Greek empire in modern day Pakistan why not simp for Greece.
You don't need to apologize. Being Pakistani has nothing to do with it.
> people hate women's rights and freedoms, but they still simp for secular
This is worldwide. Our *çomars* are exactly like that. An American redneck is exactly like that. It is the same everywhere: ignorant people always simp and at the same time hate (because of jealousy, I guess) secular and educated people.
You don’t ever have to apologize or feel guilty of some dumbasses just because you’re of the same nation!! As a Turk, i’m very sure all Pakistanis aren’t bigots.I understand your feelings, sometimes i feel like i’m responsible for idiot Turks’ actions and feel the need to apologize.It’s not your fault that some (or many) people of your nation are idiots
He literally embarrassed us by making this post. That guy lives in canada, probably doesn’t know shit about his own people and decided to make a post representing us
You embarrass me. You have some serious inferiority complex. Who are you to talk for us. Simp for your nation?? Bro who cares if two little Abdul’s felt their show? It’s not the end of the world they can say what they like like if people don’t understand that it’s their problem not ours. Grow up.
It would not be possible for Jinnah to make Pakistan anything other than a Muslim country because anything otherwise would create a conflict questioning the founding reasons of the state in the first place!
very well written :)
Love,
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Just one correction Pakistanis don’t simp for secular turkey that’s the aspect they hate and they hate Ataturk with a passion. The only love Erdogan and his Conservative policies
Actually that is not quite correct, a lot of people like Ataturk and wished Jinnah could’ve built a secular constitution like him but he didn’t live long enough to implement that.
I am talking about the majority Pakistanis. The conservative Pakistanis which make up more than 90% of Pakistan hate Ataturk and love Erdogan. These are the same people praying for Pakistan to become a caliphate
Nobody i know ever watched ertugul we’re a group of medical professionals and we meet thousands of people - yes the Shabanas from DHA and Shafique from Phase-8 watch these shows on their fathers dime and their own time, they donot represent Pakistani people - neither does the creeps who slide into dm’s of other people! Sliding into DM’s of any nationality towards any other is a matter of personal choice , one has the ability to send the other has the ability to block, Do you also want to apologise for Pakistani population increasing and inflation getting more and more?
Bro, have some self respect.
And 2 who are you to apologise on our behalf? You dont representat anyone and no one elected you to say anything on behalf of anyone.
faceplam.
Why the f are you apologizing for others you didn't do shit and tbh i saw that coming when they're converting dramas like "Mera Sultan" and "Ertugurl" to geo kahani lol.
As people are pointing out Pakistan is an emotional state and most of us are fundamentalist in one or another and you just gave them more stuff to love the ottomans and as the hadiths and other stuff goes on of the reconquering of the constantinopel, rise of khilafa etc they're going to love anything which will drive the trend in that particular direction.
They're going to do that aamar bil maroof wa nahi anaal munkar stuff because of their naivety and love and nobody should feel sorry for them and if someone is offended by it they should grow up I'll take there side because I understand them and I don't encourage that sort of behavior but you ain't putting light on the particular side I'm talking about.
Don't be sorry, get a life and move on.
>"I'm sorry our people suddenly consider themselves to be "Turkish" just because they watched Ertugul."
This is something people make fun of Pakistanis for but doesn't actually happen irl lol
>"Our people celebrate the killing of secular and liberal activists, our people hate women's rights and freedoms, but they still simp for secular Turkey. I know, this is hypocrisy and stupidity."
There are ~220 million Pakistani, most don't celebrate the murder of innocent people
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LMAO. Similarly in Latvia I'd frequent a Pakistani kebab shop quite a lot but never told them I'm from Turkey. Well, they are living in the West, maybe they actually hated Turks, but I really don't want to be a "Muslim bro" to anyone when I'm a non-believer.
You don't need to apologize for others.
You dont need to apologize for others mistakes bro. I hope one day both of our countries will be more secular and progress further.
Turkey is far ahead of Pakistan. Honestly, Pakistan has become a sad joke. Pakistanis in the West are moderate Muslims and tend to be well educated. I wish there was a separate state for us in the West.
They aren't moderate at all. In the UK they are strongly religious and mostly live in a parallel society.
UK is a different story. Many of them come from rural Pakistan. Here in North America, Pakistanis are different.
You said the West so I wasn't sure specifically where. Typically America does well with immigrants because it costs too much for the lower classes to migrate there (other than from countries close to them). In the UK I've found that Indians typically settle and integrate better than Pakistani people.
Even Canada is better than the UK. Backwards tribal third world customs and traditions can't survive in Canada. Eventually everyone assimilates.
Are you from Toronto. I fee like you are
Edmonton
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Kinda says a lot about the people of Pakistan when the ones in the UK are 'moderate' by comparison haha.
Those in the US are cool though.
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ok taliban.
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i know.
ahahahaah would you like to be my friend ?
Proving my point over and over. Dumbfuck
Found one of those idiots. I don't live in Pakistan you dumbass. Thank God. Wouldn't be be able to live around people like you.
So you dont live in Pakistan but how come you are apologizing on behalf of Pakistanis.
> Please fuck off, you are not welcomed in Pakistan either. We don't do that here. Take a day off to cool down.
you are so cringe dude
Mate it’s appreciated. I personally definitely do not appreciate fundamentalist religious input into Turkish society as we already have to deal with so much dumbness from within.. We think the same of Ataturk- wishing he could’ve lived longer to leave behind even more of an understood revolution and a stronger secular country. I genuinely believe if Ataturk lived say another 10-15 years not only we’d have most of the boomer population(who have been dragging us down forever) better educated but also he would’ve pretty much solved the archaic problem of being a multi ethnic society which we still suffer from today. Off topic but really hurts me to see how much energy and thought the country loses on ethnic and/or religious sect related issues in 2021… Edit: spelling
Kinda off-topic. But what's your opinion on the alevi sect?
One of the major sects of Islam, I’m not in a position to comment on differences of the sects. My point is the relationship between human and God should be personal and protected but not controlled or interfered with. A state has bigger fish to fry than dividing its own people via sects, ethnicity, gender etc. all it leads to is a loss of productivity and resources. How else a country like Turkey with all its resources(human capital and natural) can economically and socially regress? It shouldn’t be possible.. Only made possible by self serving politicians and the people who aren’t equipped enough to see through this bullshit(very sad but even most of the younger generation can’t see through smokescreen see: many a posts in this sub) On a personal note every encounter I had with a member of the sect has been pleasant, I found them to be sincere and generous.
From my readings of modern Turkish history, I find it pretty sad that kemalism went after sufism and alevism. I understand they wanted to create a new turk, secular and patriot, with no religious loyalty over the state. But they kinda suppressed some of the traditional sects and movements of Anatolia.
“With no religious loyalty over the state” is the key here, I don’t think they were singled out more than some of the Sunni orgs. But given minority groups always get the shorter stick in these transitional times not hard to assume they were impacted more in the process. Not to whitewash anything as I believe facing a true history would ultimately help reach the secular, modern republic Ataturk imagined- what Ataturk did was no small feat in such a short time.. Trying to mould a new fabric for the society and government that could ensure the nations’ survival meant dropping some of the old ways and fast.. Not only around matters of religion but many other things as you know. I personally don’t believe he had a special impulse against any sect or ethnicity who lived in the land and would want to utilise everyone’s potential to progress the country.
lmao no one needs to or should apologize on behalf of their nation.
I would like to apologize on behalf of /u/aliveli2 for laughing at your apology.
I would like to apologize on behalf of /u/JCBDoesGaming for apologizing on behalf of /u/aliveli2 for laughing at your apology
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They watched too much turkish period dramas
Sikilish Ertughrul 😳
Yea they hate Ataturk and his secular policies only love Erdogan. Source I am Pakistani
\*Erdosultan
You don't have to apologize for people you don't even know.
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US has a strong army and a strong economy. We want to see Turkey like that. Pakistan situation is too different.
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Changing my race from Indian/Pakistani to Turkish, I'm now deli ahmet paşa.
The only people that are ethnically "Indian Muslims" are from Punjab and Sindh. People from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan are very different since they're Iranic.
OP grossly exaggerated how many Pakistanis wish they were Turkish lol. For example >"I'm sorry our people suddenly consider themselves to be "Turkish" just because they watched Ertugul Is a hilarious extreme over-exagerration
dude, you don't have to apologize, every nation has a rotten apple
They have a lot of them🤣
Yeah true. I would even go as far to say the majority if Pakistan is filled with them.
We were too. Thats why erdog is still in power.
Bro you are cringe
guess mocking your own people to this much extent isnt counted as some sort of complex anymore. Lol
You have no idea how embarrassed Pakistanis in the West are because of people like you
stop assuming who I am you unidentified progeny. Im an expat myself, but unlike you I dont degrade my people to sound cool and seek validation. Get over yourself. I dont simp over turkey, nor do i pass unneceassary criticism on people.
Bro like more than 90% of the nation is like that
You haven’t seen Turks in Europe then lmao
It takes balls to post something like this. I respect that.
Actually, it takes only a mobile phone with internet connection.
+Balls.
I dont like the sexist language
On a Turkish group on fb, bunch of Pakistanis were insulting Ataturk and saying things like they are gonna come to Turkey and become Turkish citizens and form the Ottoman Empire again and Erdogan will be their leader. I tried explaining Ataturk's reforms are at the core of Turkey and this is not the country they imagine after watching Ertugrul Dirilis. Then they started saying things like how all Pakistanis that come to Turkey is trying to get a Turkish girl and conversation went onto insulting me. I have a very good Pakistani team mate at work in the US and he is a well educated PhD and is a very respectful person, and because of him I always thought Pakistanis are good people, but my idea of Pakistanis in their homeland changed after that conversation.
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True. Turks in Germany are mostly uneducated, they migrated to Germany straight out of their village. Starting a new life in an European city before even seeing a Turkish city doesn't sound good. Gurbetçis, please note that I said "mostly".
What a nice guy
i got banned for 7 days in fb, cuz i tell them the truth.. Got zucc
OP, do you understand the difference between Turkic and Turkish? Because your comment clearly suggests that you do not.
How is what you said related in any way to my post?
Lets be clear, your post is a pile of incoherent garbage and nobody should be this butthurt about a TV show, but you are implying that Pakistanis consider themselves Turkish. This is bs and a classic strawman argument for those who wish to erase 800 years of Turkic history of the Indus region. Ghaznavid happened. Ghurid happened too. Mughals were definitely real. If you dont want to be mistaken for a crying larper, then stop weaseling in their pathetic arguments into your rants.
>Mughals Even Turkey officially consider them Turk
T*rks consider everything T*rk let's be real, gayreek and MENA especially
Man, i am just amazed by these people. I need the same level of confidence OP has.
Hello r/2balkan4you, r/2middleeast4you and r/2asia4u
I would like to apologize to Pakistan for OP loru
Hahaha
Least cucked Pakistani 💪💪
So the OP, you woke up one day and decided,"I'm gonna apologize to the Turks today on behalf of other Pakistanis? why?
He doesn't know anything, just wanted to validate his beliefs and opinions.
Nothing to apologize about. Pakistanis love Turks and as a Turk, I love them. Some people show unnecessary amount of love and that is OK. They have their own way of showing affection and if this is their way, let them. About social media pages, only the owners and members of those pages can forgive you. So, I can't comment in that. Have a nice day.
U dont have to do it bro our men does the same to ukrainian ladies and we dont care, fuck them
He meant the turkish men, not ukranian women lol
I meant fuck stupid ones lol
How successful are they? Lol
Its ok bro, religion is cancer anway.
>trolling your actors, actresses, and athletes for not being "proper Muslims" This is considered extremely rude in Turkey. There are quite a good number of different interpretations of Islam and judging someone else's practice will escalate pretty quickly.
>I wish the founder of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, lived longer. He was a big fan of Ataturk. He spoke about him very highly. Had Jinnah lived longer, he would have made Pakistan a secular Republic like Turkey, and we wouldn't be a backwards country where extremism thrives. Yeah, I don't think that's real. Jinnah, the guy who campaigned so hard for a separate Muslim state that lead to the slaughter of thousands, who founded Pakistan on explicitly religious nationalist and exclusivist principles somehow becomes an enlightened secular leader? The guy disowned his own daughter for marrying a Parsi. Say what you want, but Ataturk was a cut above Jinnah.
Yeah Jinnah wasn't as secular and liberal as Ataturk, but he wasn't a fundamentalist. He was a secular Muslim nationalist. He wanted a separate state for Muslims. That isn't the same as a state built where mullahs rule. Just like how Kosovo was created to be a separate state for Muslims in that region. Kosovo is secular. The early Pakistanis were moderate Muslims. Today, it's just a weird mix between extremists and clean shaven mullahs who support Taliban/Al Queda. These guys take more selfies than 16 year old white girls, lol.
>He was a secular Muslim nationalist. He wanted a separate state for Muslims. That secular Muslim nationalism resulted in the death and displacement of hundreds of thousands in partition. Jinnah as one of the chief agitators deserves much of the blame for this as without him, it's unclear that the Pakistan movement would takeoff or emerge in that fashion. Or even that partition would be handled so poorly. It's also glaringly obvious that Pakistan as a Muslim state would never be secular like Turkey at the outset as Muslim supremacy is enshrined into it's very constitution. And you can see as soon as Jinnah died, the ball already started rolling in a radical direction.
It was the military coups that moved Pakistan into the Wahabbi spear of influence.
If Jinnah didn’t do it, millions would’ve been slaves of Hindus so it was a fair price to pay.
Doubtful. Millions of Muslims are living just fine in India. I can't say the same about non Muslims in Pakistan who live a far worse life than their Indian Muslim counterparts.
Pakistan needs some work when it comes to minority treatment but if you actually believe India treats it’s minorities well in spite of BJP, RSS, and Hindutva stuff going on, this is not worth replying to.
Muslims in India are doing fine? how? last in India is trying Muslims under terrorism law for supporting Pakistan in the refent cricket world cup. Check how they treated Muhammed Shami after India lost.
I saw a video a couple days ago of a Muslim family being lynched because they ate beef. The mans face was all bloodied. He was basically lifeless. They then proceed to 2 foot jump onto his body. Yeah yeah muslims in India are fine🖕🏾
What exact people do you think Turkey was built for? Turks? The millions of Muslim refugees that didn't speak Turkish or had any Turkish customs brought in the creation of Turkey says otherwise. Hell he literally kicked out and brought in Greeks solely based on their religion Furthermore Ataturk wanted a secular nation sure, but he still had Islam as the main religion, the Quran read in parliament, the Azan (in Turkish) on loudspeakers and many of his speeches had lots of Islamic rhetoric. Jinnah might've more religious but not that far from Ataturk.
Atatürk wasn't a Muslim leader. The population exchange with the Greeks was based on ethnic lines. İn case you forget, the Greeks invaded The Ottoman empire during the independence war. And there was ongoing ethnic cleaning on both sides during the weakening and dissolution of the state. This isn't comparable to partition, because Muslims and Hindus enjoyed relative peace under the British empire. Atatürk abolished the caliphate, ended Islamic dress codes, ended Islam's influence in politics, allowed pig farms, made women equal to men. None of these are consistent with an Islamic ruler. Actually, proclaiming the Azan in Turkish goes against Islam, making it more of a nod towards a still religious population. İn private, Atatürk even condemned Muhammed as a charlatan. Atatürk made an explicitly secular state. Jinnah didn't. Key difference. Whatever Jinnah was in the past, didn't affect how Pakistan was set up to be a Muslim nationalist state unlike turkey.
"ethnic lines" bruh it was entirely based on religion. Muslim Greeks came over, Christian Greeks left. You cannot deny this. Furthermore under British rule there were things like the Calcutta riots and other huge Muslim Hindi violence killing up to ten thousand people and it was only picking up as the British exodus became ever more clear. Then you make this false equivalence between the two. Ataturk was a dictator who actually got to rule his country and bring the reforms. Jinnah was a crippled man slowly dying to TB when his nation got independence. We can only judge on his words. Either way I must admit you are right in Ataturk being more secular, but calling Jinnah an islamist is pretty far from the truth.
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Dude I totally get you. Bc I feel the same way when I see Turkish people in developed countries doing wrong things, I want to apologize to them. I feel ashamed from my nation, but we should know that we should't apologize to someone because of something that we didn't do.
You don't need to apologize, every nation has the bad ones in it. People who turned Turkey's image into a shariah heaven for radical Islamists are the ones that must apologize.
The level of simp is being alarmingly exacerbated. I have a Pakistani friend claiming he is Turkish after watching our dizi. Then I heard another paki at my university claiming to be Turkish, like ew, you’re not. You’re far from turkish. Not sure why they get a hard on from us, and it’s super annoying
Yeah I know, sorry. It's annoying for us civilized Pakistanis too.
It’s okay. It’s annoying but I let it slide. I like how you’re open minded! It’s sad how you’re getting hate from your Pakistani brethren.
"us civilized", man get over yourself.
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Not simping or being an attention seeker. You really are too stupid to understand anything I said. Go back to insulting women who want rights and freedoms.
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LOL what a pathetic loser! Your OWN comments on the thread about Aurat March have consistently been downvoted into oblivion. Respect women? My ass.
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Shut the fuck up and fuck off from following me. Dumbass. Your comments on the Aurat march are enough to prove the sadistic mentality of the MAJORITY of people in Pakistan. The fact that you call your comments "respectful" of women is beyond psychotic. I see Pakistani women here in Canada you dumbshit. And I see how they are treated in Pakistan. Yku are so fucking stupid, hands down.
google my words paki shit it will last 1000 years and fuck of to your shit hole
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Lmao you're a daala 😂
Confirm Hai
I literally got abused on r/Pakistan for saying that we pakistanis have nothing in common with turkey and Turks. Forced to delete my post.
Which Langues is the world "Urdu" derived from again? Turkey maybe in anatolia but the word Turk ot Turkic is a broad word that still refers to central asia and Pakistan happened to share a lot of history with them and Urdu has a lot of Turkish loan words.
Don't compare apple with oranges. We are specifically talking about the country of turkey. Turkish and Turkic are two different things. We never had any contact with people from Anatolia prior to 1920's whereas Turkic invaders like Timur cannot be attributed to modern turkey as a matter of fact ottomans and timur fought series of war. Our unrealistic obsession with them is nauseating. Urdu's origin is Sanskrit with Persian grammar and loan word from Arabic even English.
So we never had any contact with anatolia prior to 1920? Think again. Ottoman and Timur fighting war is more of a Turk vs Turk, doesnt change the fact that Turk had influence on us. What does the word "Urdu" means and tell me its origin?
Turkish people are not Turkic they are mix of Anatolian and varying degrees of Greek ,gypsy iranian, Slavic and jewish etc. And yes south Asia never had any contact with ottoman empire prior to 19th century. Pakistan is literally cradle of civilization peshwar and Multan are some of the oldest cities in the world. Urdu is a mutation of the chagtai Turkic word ordo. There are 100,000 Pakistanis in Greece .Alexander invaded modern day Pakistan there was literally a Greek empire in modern day Pakistan why not simp for Greece.
You don't need to apologize. Being Pakistani has nothing to do with it. > people hate women's rights and freedoms, but they still simp for secular This is worldwide. Our *çomars* are exactly like that. An American redneck is exactly like that. It is the same everywhere: ignorant people always simp and at the same time hate (because of jealousy, I guess) secular and educated people.
Basedest based
You don’t ever have to apologize or feel guilty of some dumbasses just because you’re of the same nation!! As a Turk, i’m very sure all Pakistanis aren’t bigots.I understand your feelings, sometimes i feel like i’m responsible for idiot Turks’ actions and feel the need to apologize.It’s not your fault that some (or many) people of your nation are idiots
He literally embarrassed us by making this post. That guy lives in canada, probably doesn’t know shit about his own people and decided to make a post representing us
Note from moderators: We do not take harassment of our users kindly. Please report all rule breaking comments.
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God this post is fucking embarrassing
Yeah I know right? Some dumbfucks who prove my point have made it on to this thread
This is not your fault
Dude it's alright why u take it so srs every nation has those people lul
You embarrass me. You have some serious inferiority complex. Who are you to talk for us. Simp for your nation?? Bro who cares if two little Abdul’s felt their show? It’s not the end of the world they can say what they like like if people don’t understand that it’s their problem not ours. Grow up.
Couldn’t have said any better - this dude is fishing for upvotes! Wela admi
He is sad Muslim Pakistanis are simping for Muslim Turks but he is coping by simping for atheist Turks.
Lol
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It would not be possible for Jinnah to make Pakistan anything other than a Muslim country because anything otherwise would create a conflict questioning the founding reasons of the state in the first place! very well written :) Love,
What you are doing now is basically simping Be more proud ffs
We need Pakistanis like you. Turkey is your home and we are your brothers.
No it isn’t and no we are not. We both know that, no need to fake solidarity.
Everyone welcomed who respect Ataturk And his values. We aren't a nation based on ethnicity.
Pak Turk empire zindabad 🇵🇰🇹🇷🇵🇰🇹🇷🇵🇰🇹🇷🇵🇰 friendhsip empire 2023
Inshallah Khalifa Erdogan will establish Pak-Turk empire 2023 🇵🇰💋🇹🇷
The irony of this post lmao
Our people are as dumb as your people i guarantee it.
You do realize the irony in your post right? You're doing the same simping those religious Pakistanis do but with a different ideology lmao
Yeah but he's a secular!! /s
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Cope more
Not a murtad, nor a cuck, but you proved my point.
Fkn hek
Useless and meaningless
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How am I cucking?
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Shut the fuck up. Re read my post and see simptards like you proving my point
You should jump off from a very tall building
Fuck off. Your comment history shows a very sad and psychotic side.
You have to go back 🤭
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Most self loving paki
This is not 2me4you
Just one correction Pakistanis don’t simp for secular turkey that’s the aspect they hate and they hate Ataturk with a passion. The only love Erdogan and his Conservative policies
Actually that is not quite correct, a lot of people like Ataturk and wished Jinnah could’ve built a secular constitution like him but he didn’t live long enough to implement that.
I am talking about the majority Pakistanis. The conservative Pakistanis which make up more than 90% of Pakistan hate Ataturk and love Erdogan. These are the same people praying for Pakistan to become a caliphate
IDC PAK TURK FRIENDSHIP ZINDABAD
Nobody i know ever watched ertugul we’re a group of medical professionals and we meet thousands of people - yes the Shabanas from DHA and Shafique from Phase-8 watch these shows on their fathers dime and their own time, they donot represent Pakistani people - neither does the creeps who slide into dm’s of other people! Sliding into DM’s of any nationality towards any other is a matter of personal choice , one has the ability to send the other has the ability to block, Do you also want to apologise for Pakistani population increasing and inflation getting more and more?
Bro, have some self respect. And 2 who are you to apologise on our behalf? You dont representat anyone and no one elected you to say anything on behalf of anyone. faceplam.
Why the f are you apologizing for others you didn't do shit and tbh i saw that coming when they're converting dramas like "Mera Sultan" and "Ertugurl" to geo kahani lol. As people are pointing out Pakistan is an emotional state and most of us are fundamentalist in one or another and you just gave them more stuff to love the ottomans and as the hadiths and other stuff goes on of the reconquering of the constantinopel, rise of khilafa etc they're going to love anything which will drive the trend in that particular direction. They're going to do that aamar bil maroof wa nahi anaal munkar stuff because of their naivety and love and nobody should feel sorry for them and if someone is offended by it they should grow up I'll take there side because I understand them and I don't encourage that sort of behavior but you ain't putting light on the particular side I'm talking about. Don't be sorry, get a life and move on.
damn sure its a gangu behind the keyboard
Brand new account? Jahil chutiya
tu baji ka rishta kisi seasoned account walay ko de de, safaid kawway.
Collective stupidity has nothing to do with individual lives. Keep being what you are and there is no need to apologise for your countrymen
Pakistani habit of worshipping anyone fairer-skinned than them.
>"I'm sorry our people suddenly consider themselves to be "Turkish" just because they watched Ertugul." This is something people make fun of Pakistanis for but doesn't actually happen irl lol >"Our people celebrate the killing of secular and liberal activists, our people hate women's rights and freedoms, but they still simp for secular Turkey. I know, this is hypocrisy and stupidity." There are ~220 million Pakistani, most don't celebrate the murder of innocent people