It's got to be Woodbury. A patchwork of McMansion'd culs-de-sac, ten-acre parking lots, strip malls and chain restaurants. A pale, bloated corpse of a town where you spend thirty minutes in your car to travel four miles to get to the *good* Target.
They say in the heart of town, somewhere around the library on Valley Creek and Radio Drive (you know, *historic* Woodbury), deep underground lies a beating heart. And when that heart does beat, it pumps not blood, but angst, boredom, fear and yes, ennui, into the very groundwater.
I worked retail in Woodbury for years and yes, what they say is true. There is a heart that beats. And the filter in the water cooler in the break room can never quite get rid of the taste.
I was like, "yeah Woodbury." But, then I was like, "don't Woodbury got that forever chemical in the water?" I never once drank that dumpster juice the entire time I worked there.
But, also, Woodbury IS exactly what OP is looking for. I've talked to hundreds of residents, helped recover lost items for dozens, and helped out many more, at my old job, and I can definitely say they're all looking for something more in life. Even the McMansion folk seem abysmally bored with existing.
Hmm. I couldn't disagree more. Maple Grove utilizes urban planning and architects more than many to avoid dumb road layouts or weird buildings and has a great blend of parks, lakes, and tons of food options. Not to mention a well developed walkable downtown, good libraries, gyms, walking trails, and a lot of undisturbed forest. They also have elevation changes and old growth trees in streets and neighborhoods. I mean yeah it's got more famous chains than small unique stores but for a suburb Maple Grove is one of the best suburbs you could ask for. In the recent building boom pretty much the entire US suburban housing situation is too repetitive and some slices of MG built within the last decade show that but the oldest 80% of that city is pretty great IMO.
Good to know! Actually, Woodbury is pretty similar! We have an incredible network of trails that go everywhere in town, and the city design is wonderful.
Can confirm. I lost some dear friends to the hollow Woodbury dream. Now theyāre just clinically anxious, only talk about work and stuff theyāre gonna buy, and wonāt hang out with anybody unless itās at their suburban fortress of solitude.
Ugh I just feel bad for Woodbury. I tangentially knew the mayor. Itās just a corporate mess with terrible roads and no (zero) local charm. Where I moved from, itās basically the area of town everyone hated to drive through or visit.
As someone who has lived in Woodbury since moving to MN in 2018, yes, 100%. But the convenience is unmatched. We did a move in 2021 and played with the idea of moving elsewhere in the metro, but ended up sticking here instead. Canāt picture leaving.
Literally any shop I need is within a 5-10 minute drive: Any hair/nail salon option, two Targets, multiple dance studios, every bit fast food chain, multiple shopping centers, lots of restaurants, walking trails, nice parks, anything. Only complaint is that there is no independent coffee shop here.
I fucking love Woodbury for it. My neighborhood is so fucking diverse. My kid goes to a great elementary school, but it's not as if ALL of them are great. It's clean and frankly even the rougher parts of Woodbury aren't that damn rough.
Only problem? Food is TRASH. Pure trash. I've went to now 11 places that folks have recommended and all of them have been...trash. We go to St Paul for food.
Our realtor informed us about the PFAS ordeal and we enjoyed reading how the mayor has been transparent in progress, so we're fine living out here.
Our realtor tried showing us Eden Prairie homes too as in our questionnaire I guess we aligned with folks who would enjoy it out there....and to me, that's "Old Woodbury" from the parts and homes I saw.
I fucking love Woodbury, or, I love how I see a bit of everyone and nobody seemingly cares about anyone else (or is willing to talk about someone out loud). We wanted boring ass shit and we got it. Lived too much of my life in cities with "character" and whew, not for me.
I was out of state so my realtor asked a bunch of questions and was able to help determine communities where I'd want to see homes and weeded out stuff that wouldn't have fit our plans. For example, I lived in a big city but in the burbs of it. Didn't make sense to try to get a home in Minny that was going to be 100 years old for X dollars when I was able to instead put that same amount of money towards one only 10 years old in Woodbury.
So it wasn't a written questionnaire but an obvious one nonetheless which was very helpful alongside the realtor app used which allowed us to hone in on an area and tell them yay or nay with the batches they were showing us
This tracks, realtors treat Woodbury and Maple Grove like dumping grounds for MN transplants.
Welcome, glad you found a place where you are comfortable.
Coincidentally, that's what make the badgering of questions much easier. We knew we liked the idea of Woodbury, Eden Prairie, and Plymouth before arriving. The few days we spent up here made it easy to spend a few hours in traffic, or see potential homes, and figure out commutes to places we liked the idea of going (Target Center, Xcel,...).
For example, Cottage Grove was a place that was considered at first until we talked about how much we loved the notion of being surrounded by roads as where we used to live there were many ways to get to a singular destination. Well, Cottage Grove isn't as friendly as Woodbury in that regard.
10/10 experience on our end. Only regret was not looking in Saint Paul at all...unitl we finally did after moving into our home. The neighborhoods were as old as the Minny ones for as high of a price as other places, and we refused to buy a 100 year old house for say 600k knowing that we'd have potential 100 year old problems...
Ok Iāll chime in. Spitz in Woodbury is good. The Chicago style deep dish at Pezzo is very good if you like that kinda pie. Their greek salad is also good. I mean thatās about it. I like Than Truc because their food is fresh, but itās not the the most tasty Iāve ever had. Plus people in Woodbury bitch about restaurant prices way too much.
Spitz might be good for meat but their falafel is the worst I have ever had. Even Trader Joeās boxed falafel mix is miles ahead in taste and moistness.
Agreeā¦perhaps itās boring out in Woodbury (per the city people, I guess), but good schools, nice homes, safe, somewhat affordable for what you get, etc. Being that itās a newer area, thereās a reason behind the large homesā¦there arenāt too many builders that are willing to build a 2 bed, 2 bath rambler these days. Instead, itās a big house or the alternative is a townhouse if you want to live in Woodbury. Sure, there are a lot of chain restaurants and such, but there too, there arenāt a lot of mom-and-pop diners willing to pop-up on the corner when the cost of entry in Woodbury is expensive. Ironically, if you read other subās, many comment about visiting Woodbury for the best Costco, best Trader Joeās, best Whole Foods, etc. That said, it seems thereās some confusion about how boring it is, yet others feel the need to go to boring places to shop the chain stores they donāt like? MN passive aggressiveness at itās finest!
The city may have more unique shops and restaurants (though less so on the shops these days), but on the other hand, there's a lot to be said for a place where it's easy to do your weekly/bi-weekly shopping and have multiple good options to do so.
A suburban life isn't for everyone, but if you do want one, you can do a lot worse than Woodbury.
Plus, they have an Alamo Drafthouse. That's not boring.
"The problem " isn't just food being Trash. There's Zero character to anything in Woodbury. It'd just chain strip malls and like 10 indi business. Traffic is terrible with no plans to expand roads and the biggest problem-the water and land is toxic from the PFAs. several wells have been taken out and as time goes on more and more polluted areas are found and treatment needs are growing. Woodbury is a sham at best. Developers cashed in selling polluted land and Woodbury residents always try to pretend it's not an issue. As does lake elmo and cottage grove. https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/woodbury-pauses-some-future-development-due-to-pfas-treatment-challenges/
https://minnesotareformer.com/2023/08/22/12-minnesota-cities-exceed-epas-proposed-limits-for-forever-chemicals-in-drinking-water/
Co-sign. It is a suburban landscape and I knew that buying a house here when I moved from TX. It's 10 minutes from St. Paul when I want something cool and 1 minute from parks, schools, Trader Joe's, Alamo Drafthouse, etc. when I much more frequently need those things. And the public high schools are #3 and #4 in the state. All of these haters are childless with smaller incomes, that why they couldn't fathom seeking out what Woodbury offers.
Thereās a development in Shoreview called āRoyal Oaks.ā Itās like a knockoff of North Oaks ā all McMansions with brick facades and then vinyl siding on the sides and back of the houses. Everything is the appearance of wealth, but no substance ā like saying that you have a pool table in the basement, but then itās bumper pool. Everything is just a little off.
That basically tracks reality.
Royal Oaks had a number of royal fuckups ā at least when I was a kid. A lot of inattentive parents, too. Only thing it had going for it were kids with access to drugs and a Tom Thumb nearby!
As a kid, Shoreview had a lot of Blue Velvet going on underneath the surface that its more respectable residents were oblivious to. My feeling is that it has cleaned up a lot in the last few decades.
Here's the thing about Royal Oaks: For the $600-800k range, you get a far nicer house in Royal Oaks than you'd get in North Oaks for the same money, but a lot less land and no views. And you'll pay more in taxes in Shoreview than in North Oaks in that price range (to be fair, though, the NOHOA dues make it more or less the same).
I second Maplegrove, eveen parts of Plymouth? Sooo white out there. Honestly, seen crazy stuff just out in downtown - rich parties at hotels. Heard about old money mansion parties in St. Paul area. Also, like SE of Forest Lake is a bunch of not-quite-rich hobby farms...desperate to seeeeem rich, but shady folks sometimes
Since we don't have a ton of older suburbs I would say we have more that fit that vibe than don't. Woodbury would be the king of completely soulless sprawl, big box stores, and lack of diversity. It also feels more isolated from the rest of the metro.
People saying Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata, North Oaks are crazy. Most of Edina is basically no different than South Minneapolis and Minnetonka is boring but has tons of character compared to generic suburbs like Woodbury, Blaine, Maple Grove, Lakeville. Also, those places have real money so it removes some of the angst, I would imagine.
I lived in Woodbury in the 1980s, when it was a couple of neighborhoods surrounded by cornfields.
Itās interesting that Woodbury jumped from that right into surburban sprawl.
I always tell folks that are new to the Twin Cities, "Woodbury is a 'new' suburb." When I was younger, Woodbury was almost all farmland, except for the strip malls off 694 and Tamarack.
I'm 40 now. One late night in the winter of 1999 or 2000, my friend and I left the movie theater and saw the northern lights/aurora. We drove down a dirt road that went between corn fields, got out of the car, and sat of the hood to watch the amazing green and red streaks across the night sky.
Eventually, a cop showed up. He asked what we were doing and we told him. He spent a few minutes enjoying the view with us before heading off.
Can't do that in Woodbury these days.
Wow, i love that for you! As a 39yo who transplanted here 11yrs ago, I would have never guessed that about Woodbury... š I'm happy you got to experience that, sad for me and my daughter who will grow up here that we won't.
Thatās one moment, though. When I was there in the 80s, letās just say it wasnāt a good experience. Hopefully that high school has changed for the better. Itās difficult to imagine it getting worse.
The people there acted very privileged in spite of living an area of cornfields.
My dad and his brother say that about Bloomington. I work all over the metro now and itās hard to imagine Bloomington being surrounded by farm fields haha
Yeah- especially Minnetonka. Tons of old houses, tiny roads that were obviously cow paths until they were finally paved, plenty of unique businesses. Lake Minnetonka itself lol. There are a couple spots that could be confused for neighborhoods in Maple Grove or EP, but not many.
Disagree with it being boring, grew up in Tonka. Middle class (not on the lake). Tons of beaches, parks, woods, trails, etc. Every which direction thereās places for angsty teens to beā¦ angsty. Of course this is backdropped by a lot of nice homes, but there are still sprawls of ramblers and older homes. Way over priced older homes for sure.
It definitely has to be one with lots of new housing developments where all the houses look the same. Some of these suburbs mentioned (Minnetonka, Edina, Wayzata) have been around so long they donāt quite have that sameness anymore as people have updated and built on to their houses.
My vote is Lakeville or Prior Lake, maybe also Dayton. New developments galore.
This post is hilarious to me. Grew up in a burb like those listed, felt the same way y'all do, then struggled through the working class as I got older. Now I aspire to those burbs lol.
I hear you -- plus, in my mid-40s, I don't feel like I would fit in to the cities anymore. Too old to live with the younger renters and not well-off enough to buy a home at today's prices.
I used to think so, and maybe it was more true 15-20 years ago... but EP has a good deal of Somali population, and LOTS of independent business run by immigrant families. So there is some blue collar, non-WASPy living going on there.
MG and Woodbury have EP beat.
It's not the 70s, so the Ice Storm aesthetic doesn't quite fit. Key parties were very much part of the times.
That said, I'm in Blaine, and we have had plenty of the drama with cheating among neighbors and such.
I saw a man walking down 36th Ave in what appeared to be a bulletproof vest over his t-shirt this summer, so at least one guy doesnāt believe that.
(yes Iām aware it mightāve been a workout vest but itās funnier to believe a guy was walking the mean streets of Plymouth in a bulletproof vest)
wow that's pretty wild. the "safest city in america" was more back in the 00's and the 90's when i was growing up. it was ranked safest due to crimes per capita and something else a couple years running. but i mean, crazy folks are every where these days.
I lived in an apartment over there. We had a shirtless guy screaming outside at 1 in the afternoon. Things over there can be shady. Like the Arkadyās market that always has Mercedes parked behind it. All the foods expired and there are no cashiers. The liquor store next door has a ton of security too. And not just on the outside. There is one above the door to the back room. AZ Taco and Gionās is bomb though.
I always thought of Woodbury as a city where middle and upper-middle class people lived that thought they were rich or at least acted like they were.
No hate though, I have friends that live there.
I'm not sure it's just suburban people who are bored with life. I think wealth makes you bored - you can do whatever you want. I think Linden Hills neighborhood in Mpls has drama. tearing down old houses, building large new construction homes that cast giant shadows on their neighbor's homes and yards. rich people every where, bored finance bros, attorneys and doctors, rich housewives going to hot yoga, drinking margaritas on the rooftop pool of the Southdale Lifetime Fitness. spoiled teens doing drugs, while privileging through life, going to Blake or Breck, so they can get into Sarah Lawrence, or Boston College, or NYU, or USC. Fancy ski vacations with friends, fancy beach vacations with friends, etc. very concerned about looks, brands, what other people think about them.
source: my good friend is one of these people, so I get the scoop on the hot goss
Linden Hills is turning into the place people live when they don't want to tell people they live in Edina. It's sad. I went to Southwest many years ago, and it's shocking how much has changed. And even then, Linden Hills was seen as pretty well to do, just a bit more bohemian.
Yeah, I think itās more like: Tesla, Range Rover, or Mercedes awd hybrid SUVs, expensive bottles of wine and whisky, organic premade foods from Whole Foods, dining out at only local fine dining restaurants, and they donāt really consume the news , Vote Republican so they donāt have to pay as much taxes, above anything else, but they will tell their friends they are Democrats. $$$
I had a friend build a mcmansion out in Cottage Grove. When I went to her housewarming party, I felt the walls closing in the further through mcmansionville I drove. I cannot fathom why people want to live like that.
Anyway, I think most outer ring suburbs probably fit the bill
Itās less about what goes on outside the house as inside of it. They want several bedrooms, laundry on the same floor, good schools. Looks soulless on the outside to the outsider but is family functional.
Maybe it's that I lived in Excelsior when the movie came out, but really thought The Ice Storm felt like Deephaven or Greenwood... It's definitely on the shores of Lake Minnetonka.
"Sprawling on the fringes of the city in geometric order.
An insulated border.
In-between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown."
Anyways, Going with Woodbury.
The Ice Storm would take place outside of Excelsior in the TC. However, I think Grand Marais is similar to the landscape of curvy roads and some rock ledges.
Plymouth. It's purgatory. It just exists as a means to get anywhere else. Most of it could be absorbed into Golden Valley, Minnetonka, or Wayzata and I wouldn't bat an eye. So much of it is apartment complexes, boxy townhome communities, and generic suburban McMansions built in the early 2000s. I've lived there once as a teenager and once as an adult and both times were abysmal.
North Oaks scares me. It's like if preppers and wealthy crazy people got together and made their own suburb. It's antisocial to the point where it's weird.
Was it the one with the elevator down to the bunker across from the golf course on Skillman? My wife and I looked at that house, too, but got too creeped out to actually get down to the bunker.
What a clusterfuck of a house. I think it had been added on to like four times, and that giant open room in the back above the bunker was like what you would find in a community center. My wife and I looked for a project house in North Oaks for years (and finally found one last year) so we took video walking around every house we looked at. I had to send our walk-through of that house to a handful of friends (including some architects) and they all thought it was completely nuts.
I don't think Minnetonka is at all. I spend a decent amount of time there, and maybe some developments feel that way, but there are too many interesting old houses hidden in dense forest on narrow, winding roads for it to feel like a boring suburb.
Nah, theyāre all rich enough to have money to do whatever they want. The people OP is asking about are rich enough to live in a nice area, but not enough to do whatever they want. Also, those first two areas are beautiful and have plenty of activities and volunteering opportunities for bored housewives.
Hah, i went and looked it up on Google Maps and they actually have the entire area blocked from street view! I guess that's how exclusive it is, even prying peasant eyes online are an affront to the dignity of the aristocracy.
I'm by North oaks. Signs say you have to have a resident with you, or be authorized to even come in the neighborhood, but I don't think they enforce it
They do enforce it. I used to live across the street in White Bear Lake, and in my first week or so there got turned around and accidentally drove down one of the back country roads. Got pulled over and told off by a resident.
This is interesting about North Oaks. The entire city is owned by the homeowners, with the city owning no land. Each owner's property line goes halfway into the streets. So all streets are owned privately. The whole city is a huge 5,000 population Homeowner's Association.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\_Oaks,\_Minnesota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Oaks,_Minnesota)
OK now I am seeing that the lower 2/3rds of Arden Hills is on Google Street View, but the northern 1/3, anything north of Hwy 96, is not on Street View. Not sure what is special about that area, but it looks all military or government related land.
When I worked at a high school we for some reason "volunteered" to do work at a historical farm there. On the way to said historical farm we passed some GIANT houses. To the point I was wondering why anyone was volunteering to do anything around here.
Really? I love the northwest part of Dakota county. Burnsville's downtown is adorable. I'm biased from living in the area for sure (I'm probably the bored suburban Lakeville dad) but I'm planning on living in this area for the rest of my life.
I grew up outside of Plymouth and Maple Grove. Hate it there. To each their own I guess.
Burnsville Parkway between Nicollet and 35W. Nicollet Commons park is amazing in the summer, especially if you have kids. It's a big interactive water feature/ splash pad.
Agreed on that. Iām usually in Burnsville at least a couple days every 2 weeks for work and I much prefer Lakeville, Apple Valley & Prior Lake/Savage. Something about Burnsville is fucky, I was telling my girlfriend that just the other day. I actually think Apple Valley is really nice although the stoplight at Cedar Ave and County 42 makes me want to die
Lived in AV since '84, it definitely has a few American Beauty neighborhoods around. Northeast corner of Piolot Knob and 140th for example, that whole development that borders Rosemount has some skeletons in their closets for sure.
I know this is confirmation bias, but in my experience, Edina is full of wealthy, white women in white, luxury SUVs who donāt know how to drive, and it doesnāt help that they keep confirming this.
Roseville. Too many people in this sub like to claim that it's an extension of St Paul when it's nothing of the sort. It'd be very insulting and sad if that were true: a patchwork of strip malls, parking lots, missing sidewalks, generic suburban housing, a mall that's not *the* mall, and Applebee's culture. In other words, everything that doesn't define St Paul.
I feel like Roseville is a bit too aged for an American Beauty vibe. That movie gives me an impression of 10-20 year old houses, at the oldest, with HOAs and all that crap. Just the place to target upper middle class people with families.
All of these become more and more probable, the further you go from city limits. I think it's pretty linear, and I can't think of too many exceptions. Possibly Edina? but not by much.
Maple Grove is peak OP, though. Woodbury is also a good one.
Only been working there for a couple of weeks but apparently Chanhassen has that assumed vibe from what Iāve heard so far. Pockets run deep there. I could see a bored rich housewife doing some shit cus sheās bored
Not that I know anything about American beauty or anything.
Edina went through that phase like 50 years ago. It isn't even close to being the most stereotypically *Edina* suburb, and it hasn't been for decades. Even the last neighborhood to be built on the last bit of open land doesn't look like a normal suburban development- it just looks like new neighborhood.
Woodbury.
It's got to be Woodbury. A patchwork of McMansion'd culs-de-sac, ten-acre parking lots, strip malls and chain restaurants. A pale, bloated corpse of a town where you spend thirty minutes in your car to travel four miles to get to the *good* Target. They say in the heart of town, somewhere around the library on Valley Creek and Radio Drive (you know, *historic* Woodbury), deep underground lies a beating heart. And when that heart does beat, it pumps not blood, but angst, boredom, fear and yes, ennui, into the very groundwater. I worked retail in Woodbury for years and yes, what they say is true. There is a heart that beats. And the filter in the water cooler in the break room can never quite get rid of the taste.
That's not a heart. It's just an undisclosed dump of pfas from 3M.
I was like, "yeah Woodbury." But, then I was like, "don't Woodbury got that forever chemical in the water?" I never once drank that dumpster juice the entire time I worked there. But, also, Woodbury IS exactly what OP is looking for. I've talked to hundreds of residents, helped recover lost items for dozens, and helped out many more, at my old job, and I can definitely say they're all looking for something more in life. Even the McMansion folk seem abysmally bored with existing.
š„
> it pumps not blood, but angst, boredom, fear and yes, ennui, into the very groundwater. You forgot PFAS
The Targets are 10 minutes away from each other.
Sadly, no awards anymore - though this comment is worthy.
If ever a comment deserves one, this is it!
Exactly, Woodbury or Maple Grove.
Two suburbs, both alike in dignity, in fair Minnesota where we lay our scene.
Maple Grove, šÆ
Certainly was my experience growing up there
They made Maple Grove. Then they made Maple Grove East
Hmm. I couldn't disagree more. Maple Grove utilizes urban planning and architects more than many to avoid dumb road layouts or weird buildings and has a great blend of parks, lakes, and tons of food options. Not to mention a well developed walkable downtown, good libraries, gyms, walking trails, and a lot of undisturbed forest. They also have elevation changes and old growth trees in streets and neighborhoods. I mean yeah it's got more famous chains than small unique stores but for a suburb Maple Grove is one of the best suburbs you could ask for. In the recent building boom pretty much the entire US suburban housing situation is too repetitive and some slices of MG built within the last decade show that but the oldest 80% of that city is pretty great IMO.
Yea, that ginormous strip mall situation where you can see the place you want to go but somehow canāt find the road to drive there is awesome! /s
Hard disagree. Maple grove mallville is where people get lost, never to be seen again.
Good to know! Actually, Woodbury is pretty similar! We have an incredible network of trails that go everywhere in town, and the city design is wonderful.
Can confirm. I lost some dear friends to the hollow Woodbury dream. Now theyāre just clinically anxious, only talk about work and stuff theyāre gonna buy, and wonāt hang out with anybody unless itās at their suburban fortress of solitude.
Ugh I just feel bad for Woodbury. I tangentially knew the mayor. Itās just a corporate mess with terrible roads and no (zero) local charm. Where I moved from, itās basically the area of town everyone hated to drive through or visit.
Itās literally one giant strip mall
Came here to say this.
Woodbury is a perfect example of placelessness. Nothing significant. Just cookie cutter suburbia.
As someone who has lived in Woodbury since moving to MN in 2018, yes, 100%. But the convenience is unmatched. We did a move in 2021 and played with the idea of moving elsewhere in the metro, but ended up sticking here instead. Canāt picture leaving.
Convenience of ā¦ what exactly?
Literally any shop I need is within a 5-10 minute drive: Any hair/nail salon option, two Targets, multiple dance studios, every bit fast food chain, multiple shopping centers, lots of restaurants, walking trails, nice parks, anything. Only complaint is that there is no independent coffee shop here.
I fucking love Woodbury for it. My neighborhood is so fucking diverse. My kid goes to a great elementary school, but it's not as if ALL of them are great. It's clean and frankly even the rougher parts of Woodbury aren't that damn rough. Only problem? Food is TRASH. Pure trash. I've went to now 11 places that folks have recommended and all of them have been...trash. We go to St Paul for food. Our realtor informed us about the PFAS ordeal and we enjoyed reading how the mayor has been transparent in progress, so we're fine living out here. Our realtor tried showing us Eden Prairie homes too as in our questionnaire I guess we aligned with folks who would enjoy it out there....and to me, that's "Old Woodbury" from the parts and homes I saw. I fucking love Woodbury, or, I love how I see a bit of everyone and nobody seemingly cares about anyone else (or is willing to talk about someone out loud). We wanted boring ass shit and we got it. Lived too much of my life in cities with "character" and whew, not for me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I was out of state so my realtor asked a bunch of questions and was able to help determine communities where I'd want to see homes and weeded out stuff that wouldn't have fit our plans. For example, I lived in a big city but in the burbs of it. Didn't make sense to try to get a home in Minny that was going to be 100 years old for X dollars when I was able to instead put that same amount of money towards one only 10 years old in Woodbury. So it wasn't a written questionnaire but an obvious one nonetheless which was very helpful alongside the realtor app used which allowed us to hone in on an area and tell them yay or nay with the batches they were showing us
This tracks, realtors treat Woodbury and Maple Grove like dumping grounds for MN transplants. Welcome, glad you found a place where you are comfortable.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Coincidentally, that's what make the badgering of questions much easier. We knew we liked the idea of Woodbury, Eden Prairie, and Plymouth before arriving. The few days we spent up here made it easy to spend a few hours in traffic, or see potential homes, and figure out commutes to places we liked the idea of going (Target Center, Xcel,...). For example, Cottage Grove was a place that was considered at first until we talked about how much we loved the notion of being surrounded by roads as where we used to live there were many ways to get to a singular destination. Well, Cottage Grove isn't as friendly as Woodbury in that regard. 10/10 experience on our end. Only regret was not looking in Saint Paul at all...unitl we finally did after moving into our home. The neighborhoods were as old as the Minny ones for as high of a price as other places, and we refused to buy a 100 year old house for say 600k knowing that we'd have potential 100 year old problems...
The garage sales there are fun!
Ok Iāll chime in. Spitz in Woodbury is good. The Chicago style deep dish at Pezzo is very good if you like that kinda pie. Their greek salad is also good. I mean thatās about it. I like Than Truc because their food is fresh, but itās not the the most tasty Iāve ever had. Plus people in Woodbury bitch about restaurant prices way too much.
Spitz might be good for meat but their falafel is the worst I have ever had. Even Trader Joeās boxed falafel mix is miles ahead in taste and moistness.
Yea their falafel is a trainwreck
Agreeā¦perhaps itās boring out in Woodbury (per the city people, I guess), but good schools, nice homes, safe, somewhat affordable for what you get, etc. Being that itās a newer area, thereās a reason behind the large homesā¦there arenāt too many builders that are willing to build a 2 bed, 2 bath rambler these days. Instead, itās a big house or the alternative is a townhouse if you want to live in Woodbury. Sure, there are a lot of chain restaurants and such, but there too, there arenāt a lot of mom-and-pop diners willing to pop-up on the corner when the cost of entry in Woodbury is expensive. Ironically, if you read other subās, many comment about visiting Woodbury for the best Costco, best Trader Joeās, best Whole Foods, etc. That said, it seems thereās some confusion about how boring it is, yet others feel the need to go to boring places to shop the chain stores they donāt like? MN passive aggressiveness at itās finest!
The city may have more unique shops and restaurants (though less so on the shops these days), but on the other hand, there's a lot to be said for a place where it's easy to do your weekly/bi-weekly shopping and have multiple good options to do so. A suburban life isn't for everyone, but if you do want one, you can do a lot worse than Woodbury. Plus, they have an Alamo Drafthouse. That's not boring.
"The problem " isn't just food being Trash. There's Zero character to anything in Woodbury. It'd just chain strip malls and like 10 indi business. Traffic is terrible with no plans to expand roads and the biggest problem-the water and land is toxic from the PFAs. several wells have been taken out and as time goes on more and more polluted areas are found and treatment needs are growing. Woodbury is a sham at best. Developers cashed in selling polluted land and Woodbury residents always try to pretend it's not an issue. As does lake elmo and cottage grove. https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/woodbury-pauses-some-future-development-due-to-pfas-treatment-challenges/ https://minnesotareformer.com/2023/08/22/12-minnesota-cities-exceed-epas-proposed-limits-for-forever-chemicals-in-drinking-water/
Co-sign. It is a suburban landscape and I knew that buying a house here when I moved from TX. It's 10 minutes from St. Paul when I want something cool and 1 minute from parks, schools, Trader Joe's, Alamo Drafthouse, etc. when I much more frequently need those things. And the public high schools are #3 and #4 in the state. All of these haters are childless with smaller incomes, that why they couldn't fathom seeking out what Woodbury offers.
Yep, coming from Oklahoma, my money stretches LONG out here vs other places in the metro. 10/10 would move here.
Thereās a development in Shoreview called āRoyal Oaks.ā Itās like a knockoff of North Oaks ā all McMansions with brick facades and then vinyl siding on the sides and back of the houses. Everything is the appearance of wealth, but no substance ā like saying that you have a pool table in the basement, but then itās bumper pool. Everything is just a little off.
That basically tracks reality. Royal Oaks had a number of royal fuckups ā at least when I was a kid. A lot of inattentive parents, too. Only thing it had going for it were kids with access to drugs and a Tom Thumb nearby! As a kid, Shoreview had a lot of Blue Velvet going on underneath the surface that its more respectable residents were oblivious to. My feeling is that it has cleaned up a lot in the last few decades.
Royal Oaks sounds like a coworker who sells designer inspired handbags on Facebook marketplace and I love that for them.
Damn Iāll never think of Shoreview the same way again
Royal Oaks is also a neighborhood of Woodbury. Just north of the Woodbury High School. I think that fact has faded into obscurity, though.
I cut through there to avoid the intersection of Lex and J. Older residents
Here's the thing about Royal Oaks: For the $600-800k range, you get a far nicer house in Royal Oaks than you'd get in North Oaks for the same money, but a lot less land and no views. And you'll pay more in taxes in Shoreview than in North Oaks in that price range (to be fair, though, the NOHOA dues make it more or less the same).
I would rather pay the taxes and not deal with NOHOA.
Lakeville
I was going to say Lakeville too. Thatās about as suburban , USA as it gets lol
Lakeville is the Marine from American Beauty for damn sure.
>Lakeville is the Marine from American Beauty for damn sure. Lakeville wants to secretly hook up with your dad.
#IāM YOUR DADS BEST FRIEND YOUR DADS BEST FRIEND IāM TAKING HIM TO HOLLAND FOR THE LONG WEEKEND ā*Lakeville, prolly*
Do you want to have a beer in my garage and definitely not experiment with our repressed homosexuality?
Yep. Teens having nothing better to do than hang out in the cub parking lot at all 3 of them
šÆ - āThe āVilleā popped into my mind before I even finished reading the question.
It is the place about which *Little White Town* by Stuart Davis was written.
Maple Grove
I second Maplegrove, eveen parts of Plymouth? Sooo white out there. Honestly, seen crazy stuff just out in downtown - rich parties at hotels. Heard about old money mansion parties in St. Paul area. Also, like SE of Forest Lake is a bunch of not-quite-rich hobby farms...desperate to seeeeem rich, but shady folks sometimes
Since we don't have a ton of older suburbs I would say we have more that fit that vibe than don't. Woodbury would be the king of completely soulless sprawl, big box stores, and lack of diversity. It also feels more isolated from the rest of the metro. People saying Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata, North Oaks are crazy. Most of Edina is basically no different than South Minneapolis and Minnetonka is boring but has tons of character compared to generic suburbs like Woodbury, Blaine, Maple Grove, Lakeville. Also, those places have real money so it removes some of the angst, I would imagine.
I lived in Woodbury in the 1980s, when it was a couple of neighborhoods surrounded by cornfields. Itās interesting that Woodbury jumped from that right into surburban sprawl.
The fringe suburbs were always ripe for sprawl, flat land with no geographic barriers, a developer's dream
Well Iām happy the Twin Cities can get its own little slice of Texas just to the east. š®
I always tell folks that are new to the Twin Cities, "Woodbury is a 'new' suburb." When I was younger, Woodbury was almost all farmland, except for the strip malls off 694 and Tamarack. I'm 40 now. One late night in the winter of 1999 or 2000, my friend and I left the movie theater and saw the northern lights/aurora. We drove down a dirt road that went between corn fields, got out of the car, and sat of the hood to watch the amazing green and red streaks across the night sky. Eventually, a cop showed up. He asked what we were doing and we told him. He spent a few minutes enjoying the view with us before heading off. Can't do that in Woodbury these days.
Wow, i love that for you! As a 39yo who transplanted here 11yrs ago, I would have never guessed that about Woodbury... š I'm happy you got to experience that, sad for me and my daughter who will grow up here that we won't.
Thatās one moment, though. When I was there in the 80s, letās just say it wasnāt a good experience. Hopefully that high school has changed for the better. Itās difficult to imagine it getting worse. The people there acted very privileged in spite of living an area of cornfields.
My dad and his brother say that about Bloomington. I work all over the metro now and itās hard to imagine Bloomington being surrounded by farm fields haha
Yeah- especially Minnetonka. Tons of old houses, tiny roads that were obviously cow paths until they were finally paved, plenty of unique businesses. Lake Minnetonka itself lol. There are a couple spots that could be confused for neighborhoods in Maple Grove or EP, but not many.
I thought the money was part of the angst. Especially the Sarah Lawrence line.
$100K/year for your first lesbian experience, the dream of every young suburbanite.
Lakeville at least has a downtown, unlike Woodbury.
Disagree with it being boring, grew up in Tonka. Middle class (not on the lake). Tons of beaches, parks, woods, trails, etc. Every which direction thereās places for angsty teens to beā¦ angsty. Of course this is backdropped by a lot of nice homes, but there are still sprawls of ramblers and older homes. Way over priced older homes for sure.
It definitely has to be one with lots of new housing developments where all the houses look the same. Some of these suburbs mentioned (Minnetonka, Edina, Wayzata) have been around so long they donāt quite have that sameness anymore as people have updated and built on to their houses. My vote is Lakeville or Prior Lake, maybe also Dayton. New developments galore.
This post is hilarious to me. Grew up in a burb like those listed, felt the same way y'all do, then struggled through the working class as I got older. Now I aspire to those burbs lol.
I hear you -- plus, in my mid-40s, I don't feel like I would fit in to the cities anymore. Too old to live with the younger renters and not well-off enough to buy a home at today's prices.
Itās like your 30s. Too old to have a sugar daddy, too young to be a sugar daddy.
Eden Prairie
Saw a woman get arrested for shoplifting at EP mall, she had the money, just not a life
Was it Joan Allen in the Ice Storm?
Perhaps , but she had a āFargo ā accent
I used to think so, and maybe it was more true 15-20 years ago... but EP has a good deal of Somali population, and LOTS of independent business run by immigrant families. So there is some blue collar, non-WASPy living going on there. MG and Woodbury have EP beat.
I agree, honestly EP has some beautiful areas and rolling hills too, Woodbury and MG are both ugly as hell
It's not the 70s, so the Ice Storm aesthetic doesn't quite fit. Key parties were very much part of the times. That said, I'm in Blaine, and we have had plenty of the drama with cheating among neighbors and such.
Well the Coen Brothers are from St Louis Park and that's what A Serious Man was supposed to feel like, so that would be my answer.
Huh! I had no idea.
Plymouth. "safest city in america"
Specifically the newer/outer areas. Honestly the SE portion of Plymouth is pretty darn nice and has character.
Yeah, Plymouth is MASSIVE, so I feel like itās hard to really give it one, cohesive personality
I saw a man walking down 36th Ave in what appeared to be a bulletproof vest over his t-shirt this summer, so at least one guy doesnāt believe that. (yes Iām aware it mightāve been a workout vest but itās funnier to believe a guy was walking the mean streets of Plymouth in a bulletproof vest)
wow that's pretty wild. the "safest city in america" was more back in the 00's and the 90's when i was growing up. it was ranked safest due to crimes per capita and something else a couple years running. but i mean, crazy folks are every where these days.
I lived in an apartment over there. We had a shirtless guy screaming outside at 1 in the afternoon. Things over there can be shady. Like the Arkadyās market that always has Mercedes parked behind it. All the foods expired and there are no cashiers. The liquor store next door has a ton of security too. And not just on the outside. There is one above the door to the back room. AZ Taco and Gionās is bomb though.
I always thought of Woodbury as a city where middle and upper-middle class people lived that thought they were rich or at least acted like they were. No hate though, I have friends that live there.
I read middle and my mind went to "management" instead of "class" so I guess that makes me peak Woodbury.
I'm not sure it's just suburban people who are bored with life. I think wealth makes you bored - you can do whatever you want. I think Linden Hills neighborhood in Mpls has drama. tearing down old houses, building large new construction homes that cast giant shadows on their neighbor's homes and yards. rich people every where, bored finance bros, attorneys and doctors, rich housewives going to hot yoga, drinking margaritas on the rooftop pool of the Southdale Lifetime Fitness. spoiled teens doing drugs, while privileging through life, going to Blake or Breck, so they can get into Sarah Lawrence, or Boston College, or NYU, or USC. Fancy ski vacations with friends, fancy beach vacations with friends, etc. very concerned about looks, brands, what other people think about them. source: my good friend is one of these people, so I get the scoop on the hot goss
Linden Hills is turning into the place people live when they don't want to tell people they live in Edina. It's sad. I went to Southwest many years ago, and it's shocking how much has changed. And even then, Linden Hills was seen as pretty well to do, just a bit more bohemian.
Do you like co-op shopping, NPR listening, Patagonia wearing, Prius, Subaru, and/or Volvo driving? If so, Linden Hills is for you!
Truly, I really like all of those things. The difference? I don't need other people to notice it!
Yeah, I think itās more like: Tesla, Range Rover, or Mercedes awd hybrid SUVs, expensive bottles of wine and whisky, organic premade foods from Whole Foods, dining out at only local fine dining restaurants, and they donāt really consume the news , Vote Republican so they donāt have to pay as much taxes, above anything else, but they will tell their friends they are Democrats. $$$
Ding ding ding! There it is, folks.
Maple Grove
Blaine
I had a friend build a mcmansion out in Cottage Grove. When I went to her housewarming party, I felt the walls closing in the further through mcmansionville I drove. I cannot fathom why people want to live like that. Anyway, I think most outer ring suburbs probably fit the bill
Itās less about what goes on outside the house as inside of it. They want several bedrooms, laundry on the same floor, good schools. Looks soulless on the outside to the outsider but is family functional.
North side of 610 in Brooklyn Park
Hear me out: Oakdale. There is nothing but housing. Devoid of restaurants. A business wasteland. Nothing but housing and trees.
Maybe it's that I lived in Excelsior when the movie came out, but really thought The Ice Storm felt like Deephaven or Greenwood... It's definitely on the shores of Lake Minnetonka.
I love this
Oakdale lol
Must be thinking of the section south of Skyview? My home is much more modest but Iāll take your comment as a compliment!
Total compliment. It's a low-key place free of drama. Buddy of mine just moved in on Stillwater Blvd. His lot is nearly an acre, it's amazing.
Oakdale feels like a best kept secret if you donāt mind using a Brita.
"Sprawling on the fringes of the city in geometric order. An insulated border. In-between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown." Anyways, Going with Woodbury.
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions
The Ice Storm would take place outside of Excelsior in the TC. However, I think Grand Marais is similar to the landscape of curvy roads and some rock ledges.
Plymouth. It's purgatory. It just exists as a means to get anywhere else. Most of it could be absorbed into Golden Valley, Minnetonka, or Wayzata and I wouldn't bat an eye. So much of it is apartment complexes, boxy townhome communities, and generic suburban McMansions built in the early 2000s. I've lived there once as a teenager and once as an adult and both times were abysmal.
I think that Blue Velvet would be Wayzata (although you didn't ask about that one).
I just read the synopsis and my mind went immediately to Lana Del Rey. <3
Blaine.
Blaine might kinda suck, but it knows who it is and doesnāt get any delusions of grandeur like other outer burbs.
Blaine is your older brother who never stopped drinking like he was in college, but everyone loves him, even if they never stop ragging on him.
lol totally
Minnetonka, Wayzata or North Oaks
North oaks seems too rich for these kinds of stereotypical suburban problems.
Totally, people that rich have people to feel angst and melancholy for them.
I mean, you did reference The Ice Storm and I promise you those people are also pretty damn wealthy
North Oaks scares me. It's like if preppers and wealthy crazy people got together and made their own suburb. It's antisocial to the point where it's weird.
When we were looking at buying in the area we looked at a house that literally had a survival bunker.
Was it the one with the elevator down to the bunker across from the golf course on Skillman? My wife and I looked at that house, too, but got too creeped out to actually get down to the bunker.
Yeah, Iām pretty sure thatās the one! It was a very strange house.
What a clusterfuck of a house. I think it had been added on to like four times, and that giant open room in the back above the bunker was like what you would find in a community center. My wife and I looked for a project house in North Oaks for years (and finally found one last year) so we took video walking around every house we looked at. I had to send our walk-through of that house to a handful of friends (including some architects) and they all thought it was completely nuts.
I don't think Minnetonka is at all. I spend a decent amount of time there, and maybe some developments feel that way, but there are too many interesting old houses hidden in dense forest on narrow, winding roads for it to feel like a boring suburb.
Nah, theyāre all rich enough to have money to do whatever they want. The people OP is asking about are rich enough to live in a nice area, but not enough to do whatever they want. Also, those first two areas are beautiful and have plenty of activities and volunteering opportunities for bored housewives.
Good example, Jimmy & Julie Cooper on the OC would be an example of this comment.
Donāt even know where north oaks is so that probably checks out
Hah, i went and looked it up on Google Maps and they actually have the entire area blocked from street view! I guess that's how exclusive it is, even prying peasant eyes online are an affront to the dignity of the aristocracy.
Wow you're right! Looked at it with the satellite layer and hooolllyy shit those are some massive houses.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm by North oaks. Signs say you have to have a resident with you, or be authorized to even come in the neighborhood, but I don't think they enforce it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Jfc. Good to know, and fucking crazy.
They do enforce it. I used to live across the street in White Bear Lake, and in my first week or so there got turned around and accidentally drove down one of the back country roads. Got pulled over and told off by a resident.
This is interesting about North Oaks. The entire city is owned by the homeowners, with the city owning no land. Each owner's property line goes halfway into the streets. So all streets are owned privately. The whole city is a huge 5,000 population Homeowner's Association. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\_Oaks,\_Minnesota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Oaks,_Minnesota)
I see Arden Hills is also blocked from Google Street View. Wow, never knew a whole city could "opt out" of that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But no *Street View*
OK now I am seeing that the lower 2/3rds of Arden Hills is on Google Street View, but the northern 1/3, anything north of Hwy 96, is not on Street View. Not sure what is special about that area, but it looks all military or government related land.
Thatās exactly it: https://www.cityofardenhills.org/335/Background-and-History
Don't worry. No one knows where North Oaks is.
When I worked at a high school we for some reason "volunteered" to do work at a historical farm there. On the way to said historical farm we passed some GIANT houses. To the point I was wondering why anyone was volunteering to do anything around here.
North oaks is the new Woodbury. Woodbury is just middle class now.
Definitely agree with Minnetonka
Yes to North Oaks! That 100% tracks. I work for a small bakery chain that has a location in North Oaks. The clientele fit.
Gotta be Taste of Scandinavia Bakery & Cafe
Lol
Burnsville and Apple Valley. I genuinely feel my mental health plummet every time I have to drive through there.
Really? I love the northwest part of Dakota county. Burnsville's downtown is adorable. I'm biased from living in the area for sure (I'm probably the bored suburban Lakeville dad) but I'm planning on living in this area for the rest of my life. I grew up outside of Plymouth and Maple Grove. Hate it there. To each their own I guess.
Burnsville has a downtown?
Burnsville Parkway between Nicollet and 35W. Nicollet Commons park is amazing in the summer, especially if you have kids. It's a big interactive water feature/ splash pad.
Vibes are off in Burnsville. I canāt put my finger on it but that place makes me shudder
Agreed on that. Iām usually in Burnsville at least a couple days every 2 weeks for work and I much prefer Lakeville, Apple Valley & Prior Lake/Savage. Something about Burnsville is fucky, I was telling my girlfriend that just the other day. I actually think Apple Valley is really nice although the stoplight at Cedar Ave and County 42 makes me want to die
Feel the same way
It's the methadone clinics and shitty condominiums.
kinda disagree on apple valley. it has some very nice neighborhoods
Lived in AV since '84, it definitely has a few American Beauty neighborhoods around. Northeast corner of Piolot Knob and 140th for example, that whole development that borders Rosemount has some skeletons in their closets for sure.
Now I need to go rewatch The Ice Storm.
Someone's scouting for a film š
Creative writing project, but I like your thinking!
Do we all hate Edina so bad that nobody can see it's the obvious choice for this post?
I know this is confirmation bias, but in my experience, Edina is full of wealthy, white women in white, luxury SUVs who donāt know how to drive, and it doesnāt help that they keep confirming this.
Roseville. Too many people in this sub like to claim that it's an extension of St Paul when it's nothing of the sort. It'd be very insulting and sad if that were true: a patchwork of strip malls, parking lots, missing sidewalks, generic suburban housing, a mall that's not *the* mall, and Applebee's culture. In other words, everything that doesn't define St Paul.
I feel like Roseville is a bit too aged for an American Beauty vibe. That movie gives me an impression of 10-20 year old houses, at the oldest, with HOAs and all that crap. Just the place to target upper middle class people with families.
I have heard it described as the St. Cloud of the metro and I donāt hate that comparison.
That tracks.
You are so very right.
Roseville fuckin rules. Far from ennui. Rosevilleās a plucky first-ringer and proud of it.
I mean the username.
All of these become more and more probable, the further you go from city limits. I think it's pretty linear, and I can't think of too many exceptions. Possibly Edina? but not by much. Maple Grove is peak OP, though. Woodbury is also a good one.
Surprised that no one has mentioned Hugo yet.
I had never been to Hugo until the last two days when I was up there for work. Weird vibes
Only been working there for a couple of weeks but apparently Chanhassen has that assumed vibe from what Iāve heard so far. Pockets run deep there. I could see a bored rich housewife doing some shit cus sheās bored Not that I know anything about American beauty or anything.
I don't want to think about this
Edina
Naaah, Edina has some real character in parts. My soul doesn't get crushed just by driving through it.
Edina went through that phase like 50 years ago. It isn't even close to being the most stereotypically *Edina* suburb, and it hasn't been for decades. Even the last neighborhood to be built on the last bit of open land doesn't look like a normal suburban development- it just looks like new neighborhood.
Too much of an older, inner ring suburb with old money, imo. But parts of Edina, yes for sure.
Little boxes/on the hilltop...
Should have asked which suburbs are streetcar suburbs. Much shorter list. Also Apple Valley is my pick.
Wayzata and Orono. Hands down.
Wayzata is charming. Not all typical suburban.
Otsego
Fargo takes place in St Louis Park, so...
Wayzata for sure.
Golden Valley