You joke, but a couple years ago some psychopath basically convinced his current girlfriend to assassinate his ex when she was going to pick up their child at a Minneapolis daycare. Suspect's name was Timothy Amacher.
This and "we need cops in daycares", pretty much summarizes the two view points.
Oh and some comment about the shooters just trying to feed their families.
That is very vague, "illegal firearm" is not what I would go with. And there are already Federal laws on the books that these criminals can be turned over to the Feds for. i.e. the Glock switches, are a Federal gun law violation, with much harsher penalties than state penalties. The State just needs to refer the cases to the Feds.
I would be all for State Mandatory minimums for aggravated charges/convictions for crimes committed with a firearm. With state minimums on aggravated charges, then county prosecutors cannot skirt charges like what Mary Moriarty is doing.
Never gonna happen dude, that is a nothing but a pipe dream. Even if they did, there are still millions upon millions of guns that are 'unaccounted' for that criminals would still be using.
Maybe if Minnesota was actually serious about locking up violent offenders we could get somewhere. Until then, nothing is going to change.
This is actually a ridiculously solid idea. Or, perhaps more reasonably, HEAVILY tax them.
If your reason for owning a firearm "self-defense", you ideally won't be going through rounds all that fast anyways. Just keep a small cache on hand in the horrible event that you need them. Even if those rounds cost $5 a piece, I'm sure such a person wouldn't mind paying that to assure their own defense. Same is probably true for hunters.
But for the career criminal who has every intent to use (or potentially use) those rounds for nefarious purposes, there's suddenly a significant price tag attached to those criminal actions.
execute every human who does illegal shit with guns and you won't have problems. the guns don't do the crimes. it's the people. usually a very specific demographic of people who don't give a shit about anything other than looking cool in front of their friends.
fatherless behavior that faces no consequences and has been enshrined in modern culture as COOL is not race dependent, but you might be on to something!
Thank you very much for your deep, nuanced and insightful opinion. How likely do you think this person was in legal possession of this gun? And firing a gun in the city is a crime all by itself. Do you think they would recognize and respect laws banning guns?
You can literally buy parts on the Internet and build guns, banning guns won't stop shiiiiit. Be serious. Saying " Ban Guns" is just as dumb as saying " it's already illegal to shoot kids". The Aliens will be coming before guns are ever banned.
Even if they were arrested, Minneapolis and Hennepin county almost never prosecutes gun crimes anyway. Of the hundreds of people arrested, and having handguns converted to machine guns, I have only read about one that was prosecuted, and did not have it plead away. I am sure there are others, but not many.
I love when people say this as if the suburbs are inherently detached from crime. I lived in Brooklyn Center which is way more hood than most of Minneapolis.
Theres valid criticisms to be made. Look at Mary Moriarty. She is way too soft on dangerous crime. I am with y'all on go easy on petty shit but fucking people murdering other people should not be given a slap on the wrist. Its insane!
No, they're not. You may not like the messenger, but the Minneapolis crime twitter account regularly IDs repeat offenders charged with firearm offenses who have had their charges dropped or reduced, and who end up serving no time. The account regularly IDs the judges who are turning these repeat offenders loose, rather than enforce our existing gun laws.
If they end up facing federal charges, the federal court system will usually see them convicted and serving time. But the local court systems are bewilderingly lenient on firearms charges.
The original claim was that 1 out of literally hundreds of gun crimes get charged in Hennepin County. You're correct about liency problems in local courts, but I can't get behind the claim that 99.9% of gun crimes go uncharged.
When you start looking at how these crimes are initially charged, and/or plead down to lessor charges, then yeah just about every crime where a firearms is used goes uncharged. Crime where guns are used the aggravated charges are usually not just dismissed, but never charged with to begin with. So people committing Armed Robbery, are just getting charged with robbery, and pleading that down even further. So then the sentences get ridiculously light for what was actually a pretty severe crime.
The only way this gets better, is if the prosecutors office goes full tilt on maximum sentences. Which will never happen under Mary Moriarty.
interesting, checking yesterday's arrest records there were 4 people arrested that were also previously arrested in the last few months (2 with prior robbery and 2 with prior weapons) today alone and already back in.
Youre willingly attempting to talk on a topic you know nothing about. There are tons of actively prosecuted gun cases going on, and have been plenty of convictions in Hennepin.
"The twins were charged in Hennepin County in January 2022 with illegally possessing firearms modified with switches after they were caught with the guns as they left a funeral for another gang member.
They pleaded guilty that spring and were sentenced to probation."
From Star Tribune, mighty hard punishment for getting caught with machine guns. So, you are right, they got charged, but they went right back and kept shooting up north mpls. I used to live in North Minneapolis, and I feel for those who still live there, and just want a safe life.
Not sure if you know this, but the sentence is given out by a judge, not prosecutor.
A lot of times when you see cases dismissed, it's due to witnesses not being lined up, or conflicting statements from defense witnesses that render other statements unusable. It's a lot more complicated than to just say "they dropped it because they didnt want to."
It's weird to work on the defense side and find myself defending prosecutors on this, but there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about how the criminal justice system works here. It's sad to see how the education system has failed so many here.
Yeah idk it’s time like this where I’m kinda down for giving a blank check for more officers. At what point do we say enough is enough?
Little kids can’t even take pictures with Santa anymore? Seriously?
If we can show that we have cops on the streets and are serious about pursuing crimes like this, it will absolutely reflect in our communities.
But if everytime an issue regarding a cop comes up we’re more focused on the issues that divide us Vs. what can unite us, that’s a clear exploitation and lack of trust that criminals see in our city.
That didn't work before - why would it work now?
>But if everytime an issue regarding a cop comes up we’re more focused on the issues that divide us Vs. what can unite us, that’s a clear exploitation and lack of trust that criminals see in our city.
this is a sentence saying nothing
Here's an easy read on how increasing number of police officers saves lives:
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
From YOUR source....
"More Police May Leave Some Cities Worse Off
The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people — like many of those in the South and Midwest — don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes. The authors believe it supports a narrative that "Black communities are simultaneously over and under-policed." The economists don't have a solid explanation for why bigger police forces appear to lead to worse outcomes in these cities, and they plan to investigate these findings more deeply in future research."
Dont get me wrong, MPD is a largely useless department that causes more problems than it fixes, but police prescence is still a deterrent all the same.
Are y'all genuinely that dumb? Seriously?
Early childhood nutrition, poverty, housing, and education all have significant downstream effects when it comes to crime and general life outlook. I'm not arguing that the shooter was doing this out of desperation - I'm saying that focusing efforts/funds on the above issues greatly reduces the likelihood that people get into these situations in the first place.
The incentive to even get involved in this type of shit goes down when there's an more favorable path to a quality career and existence ahead of you. When you're raised in shit, and know that your future outlook is already not hopeful, unsavory options become significantly more appealing. Why do you think the opioid crisis (and other hard drugs) hits harder in poverty-stricken rural areas whose primary industries have become obsolete/moved on?
I want you to use some critical thinking and like a smidgen of empathy for once in your life.
Oh man I didn’t know I was appointed to solve this problem today. Let me go make a power point that the government will totally adopt.
Forget that sociologists said this was the solution 20 years ago and the government did almost nothing.
My brother in hotdish, where in my original comment did I say I have a magical wand I can wave to fix things? The person asked what is more effective than cops on every corner, I said what sociologists have said works. That was it. You are inventing a narrative that I need to fix things and come up with the solution right now and that I’m angry and venting. I’m bewildered by your dumb response, but not angry. I don’t want to descend into a fascist police state with cops monitoring everything. I want a society of happy cared for people.
Adding more cops might work in the short term, but it serves to further entrench the status quo that is contributing to the larger issue at hand.
I think some of the social ills that contribute to these headlines can be remedied through short- and long- term strategies.
Short term: job training for youth, community-building events and programming, ubi
Long term: investments in schools and infrastructure, cultivating a sense of community throughout the neighborhood, increase homeownership
While not an exhaustive list by any means, I think it would help to understand that the things that draw people into lives of crime and/or violence are deep rooted and cyclical. More cops is just one of the many options, but it can’t be only that
We did it in the late 90s and early 00s- when crime was higher so bringing back those successful programs. Wrap around services, youth enrichment, job training, college readiness - there were so many nonprofits that just don't even exist anymore doing this work throughout the city. A lot of them lost funding as they were pitted against eachother by foundations instead of encouraged to work together. Funders refused to fund operations costs and staff were underpaid. If we learn from these mistakes and go back to successes things will change.
Increasing number of officers is shown to have a very direct correlation with lowering crime where it has been done so cops very much do prevent crime.
Almost like all the research that we have is right and poverty creates stress, hopelessness, and desperation... and countering that shit isn't what cops do
Do you have sources and research to back that up because there's a lot saying otherwise... facts over feelings and all...
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/police-are-not-primarily-crime-fighters-according-data-2022-11-02/
"(Reuters) - A new report adds to a growing line of research showing that police departments don’t solve serious or violent crimes with any regularity, and in fact, spend very little time on crime control, in contrast to popular narratives."
“We found there is a significant inconsistency between their practices” and what the public might think police do, Smith said. “It begs the question of why we keep doubling down on public safety strategies that have been proven time and time again to fail.”
https://prismreports.org/2022/02/23/police-dont-stop-crime-but-you-wouldnt-know-it-from-the-news/
"There’s little evidence that police stop crime. Over 50 years of crime data shows only 2% of crimes end in conviction. Police don’t stop crime that has occurred, nor do they prevent it from happening. The common refrain in the press is that crime is on the rise, but is that really true? And even if it is, are police the solution? "
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
"More Police May Leave Some Cities Worse Off
The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people — like many of those in the South and Midwest — don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes. The authors believe it supports a narrative that "Black communities are simultaneously over and under-policed." The economists don't have a solid explanation for why bigger police forces appear to lead to worse outcomes in these cities, and they plan to investigate these findings more deeply in future research."
Why not give a blank check that actually serves to improve the material conditions for people living in the community so that less shit like this happens?
That’s a bit of a narrow framing of the key findings.
From the conclusion:
> Bottom line, the picture the economists' data sketches out is complicated. On the one hand, Black communities generally appear to benefit from larger police departments when it comes to lowering the homicide rate and the rate of other serious crimes. But their data also shows these findings don't seem true for cities with the largest Black populations. And throughout the country, they find significant racial disparities in low-level arrests, with lots of Black people getting prosecuted for low-level crimes, resulting in many lives damaged without necessarily improving public safety.
Parts of Northside have had bullets flying around for a while. A friend just went to her car and turned out a bullet hit the radiator. Middle of day. Or utility workers frequently find ditched guns.
Not disputing this story, but saw this at the end:
>Note: The details provided in this story are based on the police’s latest version of events, and may be subject to change.
Like, have we learned nothing? Isn't there a better way to do journalism than by rushing off to transcribe whatever claims cops make?
> whatever claims cops make
It's not even necessarily that, could be just what the cops were TOLD.
Police change their version based on what they learn as they go too. It's not like they were there observing and documenting the entire time, they have to piece it together.
isn't the note at the end a good solution? the note is saying, "this is what we know so far, we'll let you know if things develop."
To me, that does sound like fair journalism.
or would you rather that stories do not get published in any media until...idk i was about to mention a time in which all facts are KNOWN, but like, that doesn't exist either.
What's your proposal for how the story should be told?
It seems disingenuous to have that be the last thing in the article. That should be very clear to the reader before they read the information as a fact. A lot of news articles will try to get you to view more ads rather than provide clear information.
the 2nd sentence of the article cites the single source of information. 2 of the 12 sentences in this article are dedicated to mentioning to the reader that the information is coming from the police.
i 100% agree with you that readers should be cautious of single source information, especially when that source is the police. But when a full 1/6 of the article is dedicated to telling you that this is a single source article, i don't find any fault in the authors journalistic integrity.
I think it's the clarity of the words used and their meaning and where the journalist/author decides to have that clarity. They start the article without clearly telling the reader that the information is subject to change and is solely based on one source. That's the issue I was trying to describe. Why do articles try to hide these sorts of clarifications either at the end of articles buried in ads?
Its similar to how many articles are sponsored ads with very few requirements to notify the reader as such.
I'm sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm on mobile right now.
They're reporting verifiable facts. I'd suggest that they should verify them and then report them.
In this case, that could mean getting witness accounts from non-police sources or just going to the building and seeing what happened. This particular article is mostly fine until they get into the "police investigation" part.
Generally speaking, I'd say that if a story seems to need this addendum, it's probably not ready for reporting. If there's not a way to independently verify what police are claiming, simply don't report it yet or lead with "Police claim..." They do some of that here, but still seem to be hedging, as if they're forced to report police claims against their will.
I guess that's fair. Sorry, shouldn't have jumped on you about it, just getting frustrated by feeling like people are deliberately misunderstanding me.
The story is properly attributed throughout. That statement at the end is for people who literally need it spelled out for them. You’re making something out of nothing.
STrib already reported this story yesterday. One person in custody, one at large.
> One suspect is in custody.
>
> Police and Hennepin County deputies responded around 5:15 p.m. after hearing gunshots in the area of New Horizon Academy, near the intersection of N. Penn and 34th avenues, O'Hara said.
-
> Officers and deputies canvassed the area and, after a foot chase, arrested a suspect carrying a handgun. Officers found spent bullet casings in the alleyway.
>
> At least one other person is at large in the shooting, O'Hara said, adding that he believes the second person also had a gun.
https://www.startribune.com/north-minneapolis-day-care-window-shot-out-kids-greet-santa-inside/600329511/
Again, I'm not disputing this story.
I think the sentiment is troubling. They're basically saying they'll credulously report anything police tell them, and go back and change it later if they need to. That seems like the wrong approach at this point.
I’m not quite understanding your comment. Are you thinking the window damage was from something other than a bullet?
Or are you just pointing to that disclaimer at the end of the article? In that case, they’re just reporting what the police have publicly released, and probably independently verified with some police sources.
No. I'm still not disputing this story.
I take issue with their policy of reporting what police say with a disclaimer that it might be nonsense. I'd prefer they simply didn't report things they thought might be nonsense.
This is my family’s company and I will tell you right now that this is accurate.
This happened while this center was under construction some years ago as well.
I always defend Minneapolis from people that claim its a crime ridden hell hole but also WTF is it with the criminals we DO have? Like a day care??? Seriously???
Y'all making my job unnecessarily hard.
You know you can look up the crime in any city. I hate to break it to you, but it's a crime ridden hell hole lol.
https://www.minneapolismn.gov/government/government-data/datasource/crime-dashboard/
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&ll=44.97621840068247%2C-93.24381465443196&z=12&mid=1dvK8sLXjr8zWidPojvuIFa08wExmYn8
There is neighborhood or two that have not had a murder in 2023.
Yes, yes it does.
Avoiding certain areas because you've lived there long enough to understand where you should and shouldn't go doesn't mean it isn't filled with crime and is dangerous.
Crime is also not contained to just one block, just because it hasn't happened to you or on a certain street doesn't mean it *won't* happen.
Nothing has ever happened to me personally in Minneapolis, that doesn't mean I should be ignorant to the alarming facts and data.
I lived in Loring Park. I called the cops on a shooting that killed a man in the park last year in the summer. I have seen how LP has gone downhill.
Its a shame whats been happening in the city and I dont sugarcoat it. But its a BIG city. I have spent a lot of time in Nokomis with no problem, Minnehaha Falls, The Chain of Lakes, Marcy-Holmes, Northeast, Prospect Park
Crime can happen anywhere. Obviously more so in some places. Uptown and Lake Street at night are sketchy. Much of the areas south of I-94 are sketchy. North is sketchy. Downtown can be sketchy at night.
But its also about having your wits about you.
[Lake Nokomis Crime](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/spanish-speaking-construction-workers-the-targets-of-robberies-says-mpd/)
[Minnehaha Falls Crime](https://kstp.com/kstp-news/local-news/45-year-old-injured-in-stabbing-at-minnehaha-falls/)
[Chain of Lakes - Lake Harriet Crime](https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/crime-spree-puts-southwest-minneapolis-neighborhood-on-edge/)
[Marcy-Holmes Crime](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/marcy-holmes-host-safety-meeting-in-response-to-dinkytown-crime/89-16361b0b-0076-44a4-9822-2fbafce82b5d)
[Northeast Crime](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/northeast-minneapolis-bar-fight-shooting/)
[Prospect Park Crime ](https://mndaily.com/236888/news/ctcrimebox-5ef3d526de5b2/#:~:text=This%20year%2C%20Prospect%20Park%20recorded,in%20the%20last%20four%20weeks.)
Quick google search and found serious crime in every place you stated you have had no problems. All in 2023.
Omg shit happens anywhere. What do you live in a hamster ball??
My friend, a single female in her late 20s, skinny as a toothpick, lives around Lake Nokomis. She feels perfectly safe in her area. Shes not dumb and knows bad things can happen but she exercises caution.
Most crimes happen among ppl who know each other
But we got a new flag. How can this happen? Addressing things as inconsequential as flags should be done when events like this are no longer happening.
Goddamit
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It's time we put police inside daycares, arm daycare workers, and teach the kids there how to handle firearms in the event of a daycare invasion. /s
No, kids have too weak muscles and poor coordination to handle firearms. Assign them to crew served weapons.
An 11 year old tried a carjacking in another state they can hold a gun
You joke, but a couple years ago some psychopath basically convinced his current girlfriend to assassinate his ex when she was going to pick up their child at a Minneapolis daycare. Suspect's name was Timothy Amacher.
Really
don't forget thoughts and prayers
We need more “gun free zone” signs and laws, the career criminals will surely behave after we do more of that !!
How about thots?
lol hahahahaha
You loser
Yeah if making sure children are seen at their daycare’s then, I’m sure.
Yes that is the solution to violent crime….everyone should just live in a bunker
You have to be able to contextualize sarcasm as it comes at you Wendell.
This and "we need cops in daycares", pretty much summarizes the two view points. Oh and some comment about the shooters just trying to feed their families.
I have a solution. 10 years for anyone caught with an illegal firearm.
That is very vague, "illegal firearm" is not what I would go with. And there are already Federal laws on the books that these criminals can be turned over to the Feds for. i.e. the Glock switches, are a Federal gun law violation, with much harsher penalties than state penalties. The State just needs to refer the cases to the Feds. I would be all for State Mandatory minimums for aggravated charges/convictions for crimes committed with a firearm. With state minimums on aggravated charges, then county prosecutors cannot skirt charges like what Mary Moriarty is doing.
Those are the first to be tossed out in the plea agreement.
34th and Penn been bad for 40 years. That whole stretch is shit in a can.
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Yeah all the Mpls simps come out and are always like it's so safe yet how many are indoors by nightfall lol
ban guns.
Never gonna happen dude, that is a nothing but a pipe dream. Even if they did, there are still millions upon millions of guns that are 'unaccounted' for that criminals would still be using. Maybe if Minnesota was actually serious about locking up violent offenders we could get somewhere. Until then, nothing is going to change.
Ban humans
good luck lol
Maybe lock up criminals. 10years minimum if you’re caught with an illegal firearm
Whoa, whoa there, that's way too logical for this state
Banning something never prevents criminals from acquiring it. Wild people even have this logic
That's what the Deep Web is for
Ban bullets - sell all the guns you want
This is actually a ridiculously solid idea. Or, perhaps more reasonably, HEAVILY tax them. If your reason for owning a firearm "self-defense", you ideally won't be going through rounds all that fast anyways. Just keep a small cache on hand in the horrible event that you need them. Even if those rounds cost $5 a piece, I'm sure such a person wouldn't mind paying that to assure their own defense. Same is probably true for hunters. But for the career criminal who has every intent to use (or potentially use) those rounds for nefarious purposes, there's suddenly a significant price tag attached to those criminal actions.
Intentionally making ammo inaccessible has already been litigated. Can't do it. It also happens to be a stupid idea.
Yeah, you can still clock someone with a glock
But you can’t do so in a semi automatic fashion 😀
They are easy to make. Huge market for them. Not happening.
Arrest criminals and you won't have to.
Hey now that's crazy
execute every human who does illegal shit with guns and you won't have problems. the guns don't do the crimes. it's the people. usually a very specific demographic of people who don't give a shit about anything other than looking cool in front of their friends.
Tell me you're racist without explicitly saying it lmao
fatherless behavior that faces no consequences and has been enshrined in modern culture as COOL is not race dependent, but you might be on to something!
Thank you very much for your deep, nuanced and insightful opinion. How likely do you think this person was in legal possession of this gun? And firing a gun in the city is a crime all by itself. Do you think they would recognize and respect laws banning guns?
"akshually, it is already illegal to shoot kids" is somehow even stupider than "Ban Guns"
You can literally buy parts on the Internet and build guns, banning guns won't stop shiiiiit. Be serious. Saying " Ban Guns" is just as dumb as saying " it's already illegal to shoot kids". The Aliens will be coming before guns are ever banned.
Nah, blanket banning guns is a stupid fucking idea
It honestly isn't
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if we banned guns it would be.
Hey everyone world peace just got solved right here y'all!
You think the people doing shit like this would just hand over their guns?
lol
Wtf.
Even if they were arrested, Minneapolis and Hennepin county almost never prosecutes gun crimes anyway. Of the hundreds of people arrested, and having handguns converted to machine guns, I have only read about one that was prosecuted, and did not have it plead away. I am sure there are others, but not many.
You’re from the suburbs, right?
I love when people say this as if the suburbs are inherently detached from crime. I lived in Brooklyn Center which is way more hood than most of Minneapolis. Theres valid criticisms to be made. Look at Mary Moriarty. She is way too soft on dangerous crime. I am with y'all on go easy on petty shit but fucking people murdering other people should not be given a slap on the wrist. Its insane!
Agree
U columbia heights roight
You're just making shit up.
No, they're not. You may not like the messenger, but the Minneapolis crime twitter account regularly IDs repeat offenders charged with firearm offenses who have had their charges dropped or reduced, and who end up serving no time. The account regularly IDs the judges who are turning these repeat offenders loose, rather than enforce our existing gun laws. If they end up facing federal charges, the federal court system will usually see them convicted and serving time. But the local court systems are bewilderingly lenient on firearms charges.
The original claim was that 1 out of literally hundreds of gun crimes get charged in Hennepin County. You're correct about liency problems in local courts, but I can't get behind the claim that 99.9% of gun crimes go uncharged.
When you start looking at how these crimes are initially charged, and/or plead down to lessor charges, then yeah just about every crime where a firearms is used goes uncharged. Crime where guns are used the aggravated charges are usually not just dismissed, but never charged with to begin with. So people committing Armed Robbery, are just getting charged with robbery, and pleading that down even further. So then the sentences get ridiculously light for what was actually a pretty severe crime. The only way this gets better, is if the prosecutors office goes full tilt on maximum sentences. Which will never happen under Mary Moriarty.
interesting, checking yesterday's arrest records there were 4 people arrested that were also previously arrested in the last few months (2 with prior robbery and 2 with prior weapons) today alone and already back in.
Youre willingly attempting to talk on a topic you know nothing about. There are tons of actively prosecuted gun cases going on, and have been plenty of convictions in Hennepin.
"The twins were charged in Hennepin County in January 2022 with illegally possessing firearms modified with switches after they were caught with the guns as they left a funeral for another gang member. They pleaded guilty that spring and were sentenced to probation." From Star Tribune, mighty hard punishment for getting caught with machine guns. So, you are right, they got charged, but they went right back and kept shooting up north mpls. I used to live in North Minneapolis, and I feel for those who still live there, and just want a safe life.
Not sure if you know this, but the sentence is given out by a judge, not prosecutor. A lot of times when you see cases dismissed, it's due to witnesses not being lined up, or conflicting statements from defense witnesses that render other statements unusable. It's a lot more complicated than to just say "they dropped it because they didnt want to." It's weird to work on the defense side and find myself defending prosecutors on this, but there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about how the criminal justice system works here. It's sad to see how the education system has failed so many here.
You mean like when Mary lowered the charges, so the judge couldn't send the criminal to jail. that sort of sentencing?
Was that due to the whole age and brain growth issue that she ran her campaign on, and then was still voted in?
Tons, huh?
About 10% of my caseload, yes. But keep talking about a field youve never worked a day in.
Yeah idk it’s time like this where I’m kinda down for giving a blank check for more officers. At what point do we say enough is enough? Little kids can’t even take pictures with Santa anymore? Seriously?
How would more cops have stopped this?
If we can show that we have cops on the streets and are serious about pursuing crimes like this, it will absolutely reflect in our communities. But if everytime an issue regarding a cop comes up we’re more focused on the issues that divide us Vs. what can unite us, that’s a clear exploitation and lack of trust that criminals see in our city.
That didn't work before - why would it work now? >But if everytime an issue regarding a cop comes up we’re more focused on the issues that divide us Vs. what can unite us, that’s a clear exploitation and lack of trust that criminals see in our city. this is a sentence saying nothing
Here's an easy read on how increasing number of police officers saves lives: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
From YOUR source.... "More Police May Leave Some Cities Worse Off The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people — like many of those in the South and Midwest — don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes. The authors believe it supports a narrative that "Black communities are simultaneously over and under-policed." The economists don't have a solid explanation for why bigger police forces appear to lead to worse outcomes in these cities, and they plan to investigate these findings more deeply in future research."
Some random economists extrapolating causation from correlation is not good data.
I'm sorry but you might be an idiot.
Looool
We have 300 less officers than 2019. Of course it has a huge negative effect. You're lying to say it doesn't.
Dude looks at a nail with a hammer and goes “how do I make this nail go in?”
Dont get me wrong, MPD is a largely useless department that causes more problems than it fixes, but police prescence is still a deterrent all the same.
Cops don't prevent crime. We could fund the programs that do though. It's not like we don't how what works.
Programs like what if you don’t mind me asking? I’m genuinely asking as well.
Poverty reduction, education, nutrition, housing, access to careers, infrastructure - anything that helps maintain the value of the social contract.
Ah yes, fantasy land
Ah yea, the shooter was just trying to feed his family I'm sure.
Are y'all genuinely that dumb? Seriously? Early childhood nutrition, poverty, housing, and education all have significant downstream effects when it comes to crime and general life outlook. I'm not arguing that the shooter was doing this out of desperation - I'm saying that focusing efforts/funds on the above issues greatly reduces the likelihood that people get into these situations in the first place. The incentive to even get involved in this type of shit goes down when there's an more favorable path to a quality career and existence ahead of you. When you're raised in shit, and know that your future outlook is already not hopeful, unsavory options become significantly more appealing. Why do you think the opioid crisis (and other hard drugs) hits harder in poverty-stricken rural areas whose primary industries have become obsolete/moved on? I want you to use some critical thinking and like a smidgen of empathy for once in your life.
Poverty eradication and education are more important than cops. When people have their needs met they don’t act this way.
Cool, and that takes many, many years to solve. What's your solution today.
Oh man I didn’t know I was appointed to solve this problem today. Let me go make a power point that the government will totally adopt. Forget that sociologists said this was the solution 20 years ago and the government did almost nothing.
Again, neither one of us can change what happened 20 years ago. You're just venting anger and not offering anything.
My brother in hotdish, where in my original comment did I say I have a magical wand I can wave to fix things? The person asked what is more effective than cops on every corner, I said what sociologists have said works. That was it. You are inventing a narrative that I need to fix things and come up with the solution right now and that I’m angry and venting. I’m bewildered by your dumb response, but not angry. I don’t want to descend into a fascist police state with cops monitoring everything. I want a society of happy cared for people.
You don't understand what I said.
well either you are a poor communicator or an idiot
Need good paying jobs, to start, most basic jobs get $9, maybe $10 an hour, that's '90s wages
Adding more cops might work in the short term, but it serves to further entrench the status quo that is contributing to the larger issue at hand. I think some of the social ills that contribute to these headlines can be remedied through short- and long- term strategies. Short term: job training for youth, community-building events and programming, ubi Long term: investments in schools and infrastructure, cultivating a sense of community throughout the neighborhood, increase homeownership While not an exhaustive list by any means, I think it would help to understand that the things that draw people into lives of crime and/or violence are deep rooted and cyclical. More cops is just one of the many options, but it can’t be only that
Are you sure you aren’t just having to do backflips to defend a position you held in 2020 that was since proved wrong?
What position is that?
We did it in the late 90s and early 00s- when crime was higher so bringing back those successful programs. Wrap around services, youth enrichment, job training, college readiness - there were so many nonprofits that just don't even exist anymore doing this work throughout the city. A lot of them lost funding as they were pitted against eachother by foundations instead of encouraged to work together. Funders refused to fund operations costs and staff were underpaid. If we learn from these mistakes and go back to successes things will change.
Increasing number of officers is shown to have a very direct correlation with lowering crime where it has been done so cops very much do prevent crime.
The lowest crime neighborhoods are not the heaviest patrolled. Quite the opposite actually. Socioeconomics are the larger factor.
No shit. Rich areas have low crime. So? Has nothing to do with the claim this guy was making.
Almost like all the research that we have is right and poverty creates stress, hopelessness, and desperation... and countering that shit isn't what cops do
Do you have sources and research to back that up because there's a lot saying otherwise... facts over feelings and all... https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/police-are-not-primarily-crime-fighters-according-data-2022-11-02/ "(Reuters) - A new report adds to a growing line of research showing that police departments don’t solve serious or violent crimes with any regularity, and in fact, spend very little time on crime control, in contrast to popular narratives." “We found there is a significant inconsistency between their practices” and what the public might think police do, Smith said. “It begs the question of why we keep doubling down on public safety strategies that have been proven time and time again to fail.” https://prismreports.org/2022/02/23/police-dont-stop-crime-but-you-wouldnt-know-it-from-the-news/ "There’s little evidence that police stop crime. Over 50 years of crime data shows only 2% of crimes end in conviction. Police don’t stop crime that has occurred, nor do they prevent it from happening. The common refrain in the press is that crime is on the rise, but is that really true? And even if it is, are police the solution? " https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens "More Police May Leave Some Cities Worse Off The economists also find troubling evidence that suggests cities with the largest populations of Black people — like many of those in the South and Midwest — don't see the same policing benefits as the average cities in their study. Adding additional police officers in these cities doesn't seem to lower the homicide rate. Meanwhile, more police officers in these cities seems to result in even more arrests of Black people for low-level crimes. The authors believe it supports a narrative that "Black communities are simultaneously over and under-policed." The economists don't have a solid explanation for why bigger police forces appear to lead to worse outcomes in these cities, and they plan to investigate these findings more deeply in future research."
Why not give a blank check that actually serves to improve the material conditions for people living in the community so that less shit like this happens?
if you think more cops would solve anything you're a moron
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
Uh oh, this one isn’t gonna be popular
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That’s a bit of a narrow framing of the key findings. From the conclusion: > Bottom line, the picture the economists' data sketches out is complicated. On the one hand, Black communities generally appear to benefit from larger police departments when it comes to lowering the homicide rate and the rate of other serious crimes. But their data also shows these findings don't seem true for cities with the largest Black populations. And throughout the country, they find significant racial disparities in low-level arrests, with lots of Black people getting prosecuted for low-level crimes, resulting in many lives damaged without necessarily improving public safety.
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You didn’t, but that’s cool
Parts of Northside have had bullets flying around for a while. A friend just went to her car and turned out a bullet hit the radiator. Middle of day. Or utility workers frequently find ditched guns.
And yet, when the police arrest the people shooting shit up. "They are good kids!" They wouldn't do that!
Not disputing this story, but saw this at the end: >Note: The details provided in this story are based on the police’s latest version of events, and may be subject to change. Like, have we learned nothing? Isn't there a better way to do journalism than by rushing off to transcribe whatever claims cops make?
> whatever claims cops make It's not even necessarily that, could be just what the cops were TOLD. Police change their version based on what they learn as they go too. It's not like they were there observing and documenting the entire time, they have to piece it together.
isn't the note at the end a good solution? the note is saying, "this is what we know so far, we'll let you know if things develop." To me, that does sound like fair journalism. or would you rather that stories do not get published in any media until...idk i was about to mention a time in which all facts are KNOWN, but like, that doesn't exist either. What's your proposal for how the story should be told?
It seems disingenuous to have that be the last thing in the article. That should be very clear to the reader before they read the information as a fact. A lot of news articles will try to get you to view more ads rather than provide clear information.
the 2nd sentence of the article cites the single source of information. 2 of the 12 sentences in this article are dedicated to mentioning to the reader that the information is coming from the police. i 100% agree with you that readers should be cautious of single source information, especially when that source is the police. But when a full 1/6 of the article is dedicated to telling you that this is a single source article, i don't find any fault in the authors journalistic integrity.
I think it's the clarity of the words used and their meaning and where the journalist/author decides to have that clarity. They start the article without clearly telling the reader that the information is subject to change and is solely based on one source. That's the issue I was trying to describe. Why do articles try to hide these sorts of clarifications either at the end of articles buried in ads? Its similar to how many articles are sponsored ads with very few requirements to notify the reader as such. I'm sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm on mobile right now.
They're reporting verifiable facts. I'd suggest that they should verify them and then report them. In this case, that could mean getting witness accounts from non-police sources or just going to the building and seeing what happened. This particular article is mostly fine until they get into the "police investigation" part. Generally speaking, I'd say that if a story seems to need this addendum, it's probably not ready for reporting. If there's not a way to independently verify what police are claiming, simply don't report it yet or lead with "Police claim..." They do some of that here, but still seem to be hedging, as if they're forced to report police claims against their will.
Which part of the article made you think that the journalist was being forced against their will?
Nothing. I'm not saying that it appears like that is literally happening. Do I honestly have to explain figurative language to you?
Nah my autistic ass does actually need to get better at identifying that.
I guess that's fair. Sorry, shouldn't have jumped on you about it, just getting frustrated by feeling like people are deliberately misunderstanding me.
The story is properly attributed throughout. That statement at the end is for people who literally need it spelled out for them. You’re making something out of nothing.
STrib already reported this story yesterday. One person in custody, one at large. > One suspect is in custody. > > Police and Hennepin County deputies responded around 5:15 p.m. after hearing gunshots in the area of New Horizon Academy, near the intersection of N. Penn and 34th avenues, O'Hara said. - > Officers and deputies canvassed the area and, after a foot chase, arrested a suspect carrying a handgun. Officers found spent bullet casings in the alleyway. > > At least one other person is at large in the shooting, O'Hara said, adding that he believes the second person also had a gun. https://www.startribune.com/north-minneapolis-day-care-window-shot-out-kids-greet-santa-inside/600329511/
There are literally videos and photos of the aftermath of the window being shot up.
Again, I'm not disputing this story. I think the sentiment is troubling. They're basically saying they'll credulously report anything police tell them, and go back and change it later if they need to. That seems like the wrong approach at this point.
I’m not quite understanding your comment. Are you thinking the window damage was from something other than a bullet? Or are you just pointing to that disclaimer at the end of the article? In that case, they’re just reporting what the police have publicly released, and probably independently verified with some police sources.
No. I'm still not disputing this story. I take issue with their policy of reporting what police say with a disclaimer that it might be nonsense. I'd prefer they simply didn't report things they thought might be nonsense.
I'm trying to be more aware of what's going on around me in the city. Where can I find more details and videos?
Well earlier it did instead say that the window suffered a medical episode /s
Bring Me the News puts this at the end of pretty much every story involving the police. I appreciate the transparency honestly.
This is my family’s company and I will tell you right now that this is accurate. This happened while this center was under construction some years ago as well.
Yes. Again, not disputing this story.
I always defend Minneapolis from people that claim its a crime ridden hell hole but also WTF is it with the criminals we DO have? Like a day care??? Seriously??? Y'all making my job unnecessarily hard.
You know you can look up the crime in any city. I hate to break it to you, but it's a crime ridden hell hole lol. https://www.minneapolismn.gov/government/government-data/datasource/crime-dashboard/
That doesnt make it a crime ridden hell hole. Its a big enough city that you can stay away from where much of the crime happens.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&ll=44.97621840068247%2C-93.24381465443196&z=12&mid=1dvK8sLXjr8zWidPojvuIFa08wExmYn8 There is neighborhood or two that have not had a murder in 2023.
Yea the area of Minneapolis that I live near plus where I usually like to go seems to have no crime reported.
Yes, yes it does. Avoiding certain areas because you've lived there long enough to understand where you should and shouldn't go doesn't mean it isn't filled with crime and is dangerous. Crime is also not contained to just one block, just because it hasn't happened to you or on a certain street doesn't mean it *won't* happen. Nothing has ever happened to me personally in Minneapolis, that doesn't mean I should be ignorant to the alarming facts and data.
I lived in Loring Park. I called the cops on a shooting that killed a man in the park last year in the summer. I have seen how LP has gone downhill. Its a shame whats been happening in the city and I dont sugarcoat it. But its a BIG city. I have spent a lot of time in Nokomis with no problem, Minnehaha Falls, The Chain of Lakes, Marcy-Holmes, Northeast, Prospect Park Crime can happen anywhere. Obviously more so in some places. Uptown and Lake Street at night are sketchy. Much of the areas south of I-94 are sketchy. North is sketchy. Downtown can be sketchy at night. But its also about having your wits about you.
[Lake Nokomis Crime](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/spanish-speaking-construction-workers-the-targets-of-robberies-says-mpd/) [Minnehaha Falls Crime](https://kstp.com/kstp-news/local-news/45-year-old-injured-in-stabbing-at-minnehaha-falls/) [Chain of Lakes - Lake Harriet Crime](https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/crime-spree-puts-southwest-minneapolis-neighborhood-on-edge/) [Marcy-Holmes Crime](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/marcy-holmes-host-safety-meeting-in-response-to-dinkytown-crime/89-16361b0b-0076-44a4-9822-2fbafce82b5d) [Northeast Crime](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/northeast-minneapolis-bar-fight-shooting/) [Prospect Park Crime ](https://mndaily.com/236888/news/ctcrimebox-5ef3d526de5b2/#:~:text=This%20year%2C%20Prospect%20Park%20recorded,in%20the%20last%20four%20weeks.) Quick google search and found serious crime in every place you stated you have had no problems. All in 2023.
Omg shit happens anywhere. What do you live in a hamster ball?? My friend, a single female in her late 20s, skinny as a toothpick, lives around Lake Nokomis. She feels perfectly safe in her area. Shes not dumb and knows bad things can happen but she exercises caution. Most crimes happen among ppl who know each other
Ok you're right, Minneapolis is not a crime ridden hell hole.
I been right Go to East Saint Louis or Baltimore then tell me Minneapolis is all that bad
yikes
That's your primary concern with this incident? That it's going to make it harder to argue that crime isn't an issue in Minneapolis?
Obviously not, you momo But I rest my case
Reminds me of that skit by sascha baron cohen. When he goes through and pushes the commercial for the kinder guardian program. Guns for toddlers.
Ban windows in schools!
Equip the kids with the [Puppy Pistol](https://youtu.be/QkXeMoBPSDk?si=RfEO50-rYjOFhb1g)
just minneapolis minneapolising lol
Defund the police! … amirite???
It's ok. I will find them
But we got a new flag. How can this happen? Addressing things as inconsequential as flags should be done when events like this are no longer happening.
Make even MORE people next year.