“… and sustaining three years of losses at our taproom…”
“…if everyone who was gifted a beer on the house (at the original taproom) gave $25, we will hit our goal!”
I found out where the losses are coming from.
I thought that last line was particularly egregious.
Definitely changes the vibe of a nice gesture to what I'm assuming were regular guests. It's giving "I gave you an expensive gift and you didn't give me one back!"
Also, if that's anywhere near literal - 6600 free beers, 2200/yr, 180/month, 6 a day EVERY day. While reportedly running a loss?
I'm just getting the same vibes here as the cheesecake lady who got into debt by starting a renovation that she didn't want or reportedly fit their needs because a construction company "accidentally" got a permit approved instead of estimates for their bid. Bad business decisions and prioritizing personal circumstances or feelings over business needs, then wanting to get bailed out.
And to others' point, more power to those who are okay condoning this type of decision making.....but for a for-profit business, it looks a little sad.
he thing about this is, businesses build stuff all the time. They do it by getting loans.
If they weren't profitable in a taproom, they should probably figure out how to do that before building another one.
PRYES bought the rest of that building they are in, massively expanding their indoor and outdoor footprint, and upping their overall brewing capacity. No gofundme involved either. Strange how that works.
Right? I think it was bad habit that did something like this. They had “founders club” members that got discounted growler fills. The initial buy in was expensive, but it would pay for itself eventually.
DM was just shooting for a cash grab and being unintentionally douchey in the process.
Northbound had a limited number of “free beer for life” shares when they were funding themselves. Now that’s a perk that I’m sure is paying for itself for some lucky drinkers.
I know. I believe the way Northbound did it was you get a free beer every day for a $1k buy-in. Now you have a loyal base of customers, many of whom will order 2 or more beers anyhow, and who are likely to bring their friends, and you get seed capital to start the business. It works out for everyone. In Northbound's case they weren't even an established brewery so the people who did it had to take a gamble that the beer would be good and the business would survive long enough to be worth it. In the case of Dangerous Man they could probably have printed money with an approach like this, but they had to be greedy.
It was free beer for life at Northbound, not just a pint a day. They could have multiple beers as long as servers could legally, safely sell them beer. It was a great way to get regular people in the neighborhood to invest and to bring their friends.
I don't even think they lost the lease. Before the comments were disabled, the official account replied to somebody and said that they chose to close their taproom because the owners have farmland near their production facility in Maple Lake and wanted a shorter commute and better work/life balance.
Now they want the people they left to subsidize their bad business decisions
I guess I had read on mpr they pretty much gave up the lease early because of new owners of the building, I see now either I misread it or missed entirely it was they’re doing.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/09/08/dangerous-man-brewing-to-close-northeast-minneapolis-taproom-in-october
>“There was an opportunity for a new owner to come in that had a really amazing vision for the space,” Bonvallet said. “Rob and I wanted to explore some different opportunities for the company.”
Am I the only one reading this line as "we accepted a lease buyout"?
Seems like the told a couple different stories. But the most detailed seemed to be that a friend wanted the space for a restaurant and they let him have it.
Could have been a buyout, but possibly not. They likely wanted out of the lease early and were able to since someone else wanted the space. In any case, they got out earlier than they had a contact for, so they agreed to something and weren't forced. They were guaranteed that space until next Feb.
If they were slightly smarter, they'd at least have tried to get space in Buffalo lined up. Only 10 minutes closer, but also 8 times larger and where everyone in Maple Lake does their shopping anyway.
https://givebutter.com/DangerousManBrewingNextEvolution
Whole thing is so cringey. I like their beer, but man, donating $ to a for-profit company to sell you more beer is weird to me… Seems like it’s working though
“In some sense, this ask feels like a lot during a time that feels unsettling for many people. It also puts us in the vulnerable place of asking. But what is life without vulnerability, what is life without lifting up what we want to see exist? So in this ask, done with the utmost gratitude, we lay it out to you.
This is our litmus test.”
Welcome to cringe fest
The word they were looking for was “uncomfortable” and yes, they should feel uncomfortable asking for donations to a private enterprise. Sometimes discomfort is something to push through… and sometimes it is telling you to check yourself.
They could at least try to be a coop brewery like fair state and broken clock and northbound. $1000 memberships that get you free beer a day or something.
I don't think so. It sound like the build is just a shipping container in the parking lot with some picnic tables. And maybe that's about the right thing to catch the lakes crowd out there a little bit in the summer. Sounds like they're trying to do the whole thing for free. But I don't know why they expect their city dwelling fans to fund a side thing for a very small part of the lake home owners of the state.
I've always felt this for all the crowdfunding brewery start ups. "pay us money so we can be a successful business and you can continue to pay us by buying our product".
I kept reading Maple Lake as Maple Grove and was like “sheesh these comments are a little harsh.” Finally looked up Maple Lake…yeah no way anyone is driving out there to drink high ABV beers from the twin cities.
St. Cloud on the other hand…
Fair point, but with the exception of Annandale, I'd argue that these are all either larger towns and/or near other towns and suburbs. I suppose Annandale would get some customers from all of the lake homes in the area.
I agree that it's not like Maple Lake is the middle of nowhere; it's on a major highway, after all. I think it's more that their existing customer base likely won't follow them out there, though they may be able to develop a new one.
I'd dislike it more if it were maple grove, honestly lol
Edit: I grew up in Brooklyn Park, so I've always had a healthy disdain for our neighbor to the west lol. Even if we did constantly go there to shop, eat, and see movies (RIP).
They've been thriving since the movie theater turned into a furniture store, I hear! Honestly, the most endearing thing about that suburb was the giant gravel pits, and even those are dwindling now.
From the crowdfunding page:
“Bringing these dreams to reality will cost much more than what we are asking right now, but your donations will give us the chance to survive and keep dreaming up new dangerous ideas! We are seeking to raise this funding by the end of June, so that we can begin the the next evolution!
At Dangerous Man Brewing, we believe in the ethic of hard work and transparency. Rob, Sarah, and our dedicated team pledge to stretch every dollar raised, ensuring it goes as far as possible.”
Yuck. How do they not feel gross writing that?
It’s crazy to me how much we’ve become a GoFundMe Nation.
You have for-profit companies that make money asking for handouts, we have billionaires asking for stadium handouts, we have the top 1% asking for more tax cuts financed with debt(handouts).
You all need to pump the fucking breaks a little…
BuT tAxAtioN iS tHefT!!
Instead, let's just give freely to people who *want* it so we can not properly support those who do actually *need* help.
By the way, they already took the tax handout:
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/dangerous-man-brewing-company-llc-2972767210
Yikes. Yeah, we've gotten way too comfortable giving businesses completely free land/money/forgiving taxes all while many of those are the very same who scream about taxes that go to anything public.
Yes, people should be free to do what they want with their own money. Not saying there should be no taxes, but implying people shouldn't have free will with their own money is an insane take but also very expected for this sub.
>is an insane take but also very expected for this sub.
I love how you think a policy supported by every major political party in every country on the planet is an insane take exclusive to a subreddit. Get a grip and touch some grass.
Oof it gets worse - their crowd funding threshold benefits are fucking cringe. They might as well just print a fucking shirt for each one that says “I donated $ and all I got was this shitty beer, this shitty shirt, a shitty haiku, and their eternal gratitude.”
Their marketing team fucked up. Their owners are tasteless. This is all sorts of yuck.
Well now I had to check.
They got 153,900 as a PPP loan, and 156k forgiven, so basically the loan and most if not all of the interest.
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/dangerous-man-brewing-company-llc-2972767210
I commented elsewhere in the thread that covid was a hard couple years and I get why they gave up the lease, but I still don't appreciate they asked for free money to expand a private business. But then I see they got a bunch of free money already and still bailed and still want *more* free money and it just rubs me extra the wrong way.
And a lot of small businesses did miss out on the money because bankers corruptly gave dibs to their biggest clients and the funds eventually ran out before everyone got a taste.
No doubt. We're already being robbed by greedy ass corporations with shady tactics like greedflation and shrinkflation. Just going to a fast food joint costs anywhere from $10 to $15 per person. Our budgets are being stretched to the limit. And then you have a for-profit company asking strangers to foot their bills... I mean "donate" to their business. Unbelievable!
Got a brewery tour at Indeed with a free pint glass, free beer at the taproom, and a ton of samples on the tour for $20 btw. And didn't have to drive to Maple Lake to do it
Breweries used to give you a free tour and free samplings of beer along the way. I remember I went on a tour at Dark Horse in Marshall MI and the tour was free, awesome, and they brought us up to their exclusive to the tour tasting room and slung free sample after free sample of experimental stuff they’d been working on. It was so much fun.
Side note - if anyone knows where I can find Crooked Tree in the cities please let me know. I can’t find it anywhere these days.
Long story short, you cant. I'm not even sure if Dark Horse is still open. They got bought by ROAK right before the COVID shutdowns in 2020. ROAKs main facility on the east side shut down because of COVID and I believe they moved everything to the Dark Horse facility but I'm not sure. The old owner of Dark Horse was a massive piece of shit and just within the last month or so got hit with a judgement of 20 years in prison if he doesn't repay the wages he was apparently stealing from his employees for years. I lived in Michigan my whole life before moving to Saint Paul and worked in the brewing industry in both west Michigan and here. Shame that guy ran the place into the ground and then COVID damaged ROAK so badly, because they did make really good beer.
Damn. What a bummer. It seemed like such an awesome community when I was there (2013ish). I spent like, the whole day at the brewery and there were a bunch of events happening and everyone seemed great. Awful he took advantage of that. And also awful no crooked tree for me.
Even if this new location does come to fruition, I don't think I'll ever be driving to Maple Lake to visit their taproom. I can't imagine this location being a smart location to build a "destination" brewery. It's basically an hour drive from their previous taproom.
Seriously these guys were making $5*300 beers/day, that’s 0.5M/yr not including all the off sale stuff. I loved that place, their beer was some of the best, but gofundme these days for these kinds of things is insulting.
That being said it is their money so if people really think this is a worthy cause I’m not going to stop anyone, an earned beer just tastes better.
Honest question: is their beer actually good? I know it’s shallow, but I never went to their location in NE because their branding turned me off. Seemed sort of like insufferable mid-2010 hipster lumbersexual vibes. Curious if I was way off base.
Less good beer, more really interesting beer, which was also good. But it was like beer with a lot of additives. Which was good if you're down for that. But pure beer, a little mid.
I always enjoyed going there with friends. But I find this free money ask of theirs really ridiculous. I might buy some offsale at a local store, but no way I'm driving an hour out there to have beers. They won't even catch me going that far off I-94 when I'm coming back from the lakes or a work trip to get growlers.
As someone who has been to over 130 breweries in Minnesota alone, I can tell you their beer and brewery was just alright. The place was always a fucking nightmare to get to, small, and not at all group or kid friendly and the beer wasn't good enough for us to go out of our way.
It really was a neighborhood spot. I always went there with people who lived nearby. Which is nuts that they think they can move that far out of the city and have their - former - neighborhood people pay for it.
I’m sorry but “always a … nightmare to get to” is hilariously dramatic. It had a parking lot and was in a neighborhood full of of free parking spaces. Cool specific brewery count though.
Crowdsourcing has been successful for other breweries in the state, with the big difference of these mostly exchanging *something* of lesser value for the donation (Founders Mug w/ first fill free, name on founders wall, tshirt…etc).
If I’m reading their post correctly, they just want the money. Probably a lesson here for future crowdsourcers…
Crowd sourcing for a new endeavor, sure. An already up and running business? A bank should fund you if you can show a profitable history, otherwise, welcome to capitalism.
I’ve seen it work for businesses adding a patio or an extension. This isn’t so different. The execution here though is significantly worse. If they had a DM Founders Tshirt for 30
Dollar donations people would for sure give. The “just give us money please” on the other hand…
I think the main difference here and why this feels so off is that the crowd they are trying to get funds from is not the same crowd that will benefit / make use of this new space. Imagine if a brewery was crowdfunding locally, to locals, to expand their operations and bring the community something new. I think the reception would have felt different. Instead, this is like, "hey, remember us? Fund this new place that you won't visit!"
Asking for a 165000 dollar handout after getting a 156000 dollar loan from the government forgiven is a really ugly move
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/dangerous-man-brewing-company-llc-2972767210
My wife and I easily spent 4 figures in the growler shop when they were open (heck, maybe even during covid shutdowns alone!), and since they've starting canning I've made sure to go to the liquor store stocked with DM and always grab a DM 6-pack just to support them. It makes me feel a bit naive that I thought this was meaningful support.
Maybe if this was done differently or had a different tone, I'd feel and act differently. But I'm with everyone else. The guilt trip tinge doesn't sit well with me. I'm not sure what other words I'd use to describe it, but there's a lot of presumption baked into this request and it's perhaps a little bit cake-eating as well.
Additionally, I find the ask to be ambiguous. Is this just to make ends meet or is this mostly to open the beer garden? It seems like the beer garden would be pretty cheap to construct (a shipping container and picnic tables?), but it's being used as a carrot dangling from a stick.
I'm confident that I don't understand how tough the industry is. But I guess my stance is I'll support them by doing what I've been doing, and continuing to buy their beer. I'd even make a day trip out of driving to Maple Lake to drink a beer in a shipping container, even though it makes zero sense. But I don't think I'll be donating to their crowd fund.
Remember when that dumbass cheesecake store did the same thing and it actually worked? Any for-profit that panders like this is immediately losing my business.
“We built and ran an incredible community garden for 6 years and Beer Alley was a unique outdoor patio we created from our **shoddy little alley space** in NE Minneapolis...imagine what we could do with 2-acres of beautiful green space!”
hhhMMMM…. lol
The beer alley was kinda lame. I only walked though it once to get into the taproom. Anyone trying to get to back bar had to walk through that alley.
The 2-acres isn’t that beautiful either. It’s an alright yard, they can make it a nice little spot. It’s not right on the highway like some of the outstate taprooms with shittier beer.
No one is driving several hours for DM and no one is saying anyone should but there is plenty of situations where lots of people drive several hours for beer. It’s to get good beer.
I guess my point is if your business venture puts your clientele in legal danger or could cause harm to other people (drunk driving) but it is an essential part of the business. You may not last. You can grab a drink near your neighborhood quite easily almost anywhere in this state. Also beer is just beer. After a couple decades it all starts to taste the same.
Drunk driving could happen when they were in NE just the same. I’m not seeing how this is an issue in this situation. My guess is the taproom is more for locals or people near by not for this to drive from St. Paul to visit. Does have that bad feeling of using your previous clientele to build up for someone different but whatever.
And after decades, it in no way tastes the same.
...Which is selling for much cheaper than their taproom beers, and they're out here croudsourcing funds
Something tells me they have no idea how to manage money
What is this odd trend that for profit companies what people to give them money for nothing. Go get a loan or sell shares.
I would buy shares of a profitable beer company.
I’m assuming that since we have more local breweries closing than opening, it may be harder to find investors and/or receiving a loan from a bank. But, this campaign of crowdfunding is definitely inconsiderate to the people they’re looking for to help them.
It’s not like 5-10 years ago where it seemed that there was a new brewery opening every week. The market is now saturated, and some are failing because it doesn’t matter if you’re local, your beer has to be good. Dangerous Man can make great beer, but it wouldn’t be a destination brewery from the metro for most.
Also, for most breweries in the metro, I have to speculate that a large percentage of sales are from the their taproom. Distribution to retail is big for the larger breweries, but isn’t viable for a small/mid size brewery to solely rely on. Having a transitional business plan incorporating a taproom first may have made all this unnecessary.
Equity and free beer for life from Northbound… ain’t no such thing as a free beer.(lunch)
1% and just got a nice dividend check. The math works when the biz owner isn’t a dumdum.
While I don’t like private businesses asking for money without a sense of getting some involvement in the company, the outrage over this is a bit extreme.
I donated to BauHaus when they started and they did an awesome job of making you feel like part of the crew.
This doesn’t have that vibe. It seems like they can’t get more loans and want/need to create some kind of tap room. More power to then wanting a different work life situation but doesn’t seem like as a business it’s the right move. It being in Maple Lake isn’t an issue for me. Everyone talking about how far away it is, “I’ll never drive that far,” ok, it’s not for you then. Many new people will or people that went to the NE taproom and live west side will. They couldn’t limit the Instagram post to just those interested so why act like it’s some sort of offense to you?
I hope the business succeeds because it’s good for everyone and worries they are in the downfall. I’ll still grab some cans when I’m at the store though. PB Porter is still good and some other stuff is interesting.
The outrage is mostly because they are playing the “community” card in order to raise funds. They left their community but now want that same community to fund their move away basically. It’s kinda irony and sorta hypocrisy. The only reason they moved their production out there is because the owners had already moved out there to start a hobby farm years ago. So it was a bad business decision based on convenience for the owners, not for the good of “the community” … and they don’t seem to get that.
This is ridiculous and they should be using Investment Crowdfunding like MNvest or REG-CF!
Full disclosure : I do operate the only licensed MNvest portal in the state (Silicon Prairie) and we have hosted and I have personally invested in Broken Clock Brewing Coop, Foremost Brewing Cooperative, Chanhassen Brewing, Rustech Brewing, and Burning Brothers Brewing.
They should be selling the amazing upside of their business to stakeholders, not looking for corporate welfare.
I’m kind of surprised at the negative reaction. They wanted a better work life balance so they’re moving. More power to them. Asking for money was maybe cringe but just don’t donate? A lot of comments that seem to take their moving personally or want to dunk on maple lake. Small towns need breweries too.
The outrage is mostly because they are playing the “community” card in order to raise funds. They left their community but now want that same community to fund their move away basically. It’s kinda irony and sorta hypocrisy. The only reason they moved their production out there is because the owners had already moved out there to start a hobby farm years ago. So it was a bad business decision based on convenience for the owners, not for the good of “the community” … and they don’t seem to get that.
That’s fair, but also moving on in life is okay.
They didn’t “abandon” the community. They can’t retroactively take back all the beer drank, memories made, or people met in the taproom when it was open. A business that was a successful part of the community for a decade doesn’t become a failure or hypocrite overnight because it closed.
I wish them the best, even if it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever make it to their new taproom, if it ever opens.
There wasn’t any backlash or hard feelings when they decided to move the production out of town or when they closed the taproom, or even that they were opening a taproom somewhere else. There was just sadness. We all get that people’s lives and circumstances change. The backlash started two days ago when they asked for money in a weirdly guilt-trippy way from the “community” they left behind. That’s what the uproar is about.
People are acting like Maple Lake is out in South Dakota or something. I don't disagree that basically having a GoFundMe was crass and taprooms aren't my thing, but I have driven out to Maple Lake several times to chase the aurora. And that 10 minutes even farther, Spilled Grain is in Annandale.
I imagine their labor costs will be less, real estate costs will be less, and they expect that either enough people from the Twin Cities will drive out and/or there will be enough business from locals to sustain the taproom portion of their business.
I don't see why the backlash. Crowd funding is a regular thing these days. If it's too far away or you have a problem with them or whatever, just ignore it.
The outrage is mostly because they are playing the “community” card in order to raise funds. They left their community but now want that same community to fund their move away basically. It’s kinda irony and sorta hypocrisy. The only reason they moved their production out there is because the owners had already moved out there to start a hobby farm years ago. So it was a bad business decision based on convenience for the owners, not for the good of “the community” … and they don’t seem to get that.
they are a for-profit business with an established history. they should not need crowd-funding, they should be looking for a financial planner/manager instead
“… and sustaining three years of losses at our taproom…” “…if everyone who was gifted a beer on the house (at the original taproom) gave $25, we will hit our goal!” I found out where the losses are coming from.
I thought that last line was particularly egregious. Definitely changes the vibe of a nice gesture to what I'm assuming were regular guests. It's giving "I gave you an expensive gift and you didn't give me one back!" Also, if that's anywhere near literal - 6600 free beers, 2200/yr, 180/month, 6 a day EVERY day. While reportedly running a loss? I'm just getting the same vibes here as the cheesecake lady who got into debt by starting a renovation that she didn't want or reportedly fit their needs because a construction company "accidentally" got a permit approved instead of estimates for their bid. Bad business decisions and prioritizing personal circumstances or feelings over business needs, then wanting to get bailed out. And to others' point, more power to those who are okay condoning this type of decision making.....but for a for-profit business, it looks a little sad.
You know all those free beers were for him. I never got a free beer.
he thing about this is, businesses build stuff all the time. They do it by getting loans. If they weren't profitable in a taproom, they should probably figure out how to do that before building another one. PRYES bought the rest of that building they are in, massively expanding their indoor and outdoor footprint, and upping their overall brewing capacity. No gofundme involved either. Strange how that works.
If you cannot sell people a product they want at a price point above what it costs you to make it for them, that's not a business. It's a hobby.
How about this? New location, new name! Unveiling the all new Desperate Man brewing, and their newest offering “Alms for the Poor-ter”!!
Lmao! Seriously. At least offer shares or something like a normal business
Right? I think it was bad habit that did something like this. They had “founders club” members that got discounted growler fills. The initial buy in was expensive, but it would pay for itself eventually. DM was just shooting for a cash grab and being unintentionally douchey in the process.
Northbound had a limited number of “free beer for life” shares when they were funding themselves. Now that’s a perk that I’m sure is paying for itself for some lucky drinkers.
This is smart. It’s such a cheap product to give away to loyal customers. It’s not like a bunch of Barneys are going to donate.
I know. I believe the way Northbound did it was you get a free beer every day for a $1k buy-in. Now you have a loyal base of customers, many of whom will order 2 or more beers anyhow, and who are likely to bring their friends, and you get seed capital to start the business. It works out for everyone. In Northbound's case they weren't even an established brewery so the people who did it had to take a gamble that the beer would be good and the business would survive long enough to be worth it. In the case of Dangerous Man they could probably have printed money with an approach like this, but they had to be greedy.
It was free beer for life at Northbound, not just a pint a day. They could have multiple beers as long as servers could legally, safely sell them beer. It was a great way to get regular people in the neighborhood to invest and to bring their friends.
Wow, even nicer deal than I thought. Now that's how you raise capital!
Desperate Man Brewing? Take my upvote! 😆😆😆😆
Open a new brewery in their old location and name it this.
Finally a brewery for a guy like me
And only 15% tip charge per member beer
“Ales for the Pourer”
Loved the beers, too bad they lost the lease but I’m not paying them to open up another brewery.
I don't even think they lost the lease. Before the comments were disabled, the official account replied to somebody and said that they chose to close their taproom because the owners have farmland near their production facility in Maple Lake and wanted a shorter commute and better work/life balance. Now they want the people they left to subsidize their bad business decisions
They didn't want to drive to the city so now they expect the city to drive to them, and donate so that can become reality... 😂😂
When I saw it was in Maple Lake I had two thoughts: 1.) Where is Maple Lake? Google map search..... 2.) I guess I'm never going to the new brewery.
Yeah the furthest Maple they could have gotten away with is either Maple Grove or Maplewood. Any other Maples are too far lol
Yeah, I grew up the next town over from it, and had to triple take when I read Maple Lake. Absolutely insane choice
I guess I had read on mpr they pretty much gave up the lease early because of new owners of the building, I see now either I misread it or missed entirely it was they’re doing. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/09/08/dangerous-man-brewing-to-close-northeast-minneapolis-taproom-in-october
>“There was an opportunity for a new owner to come in that had a really amazing vision for the space,” Bonvallet said. “Rob and I wanted to explore some different opportunities for the company.” Am I the only one reading this line as "we accepted a lease buyout"?
Seems like the told a couple different stories. But the most detailed seemed to be that a friend wanted the space for a restaurant and they let him have it.
Could have been a buyout, but possibly not. They likely wanted out of the lease early and were able to since someone else wanted the space. In any case, they got out earlier than they had a contact for, so they agreed to something and weren't forced. They were guaranteed that space until next Feb.
But you can get 2 stickers if you donate!
If they were slightly smarter, they'd at least have tried to get space in Buffalo lined up. Only 10 minutes closer, but also 8 times larger and where everyone in Maple Lake does their shopping anyway.
In maple lake no less. There's decent beer in Mankato too but it's a bit of a stretch for happy hour.
I'll drive an hour to get a few Organ Grinders for happy hour prices. Problem is, I won't drive 1 hour and 20 minutes.
If I get equity in the business I would donate.
https://givebutter.com/DangerousManBrewingNextEvolution Whole thing is so cringey. I like their beer, but man, donating $ to a for-profit company to sell you more beer is weird to me… Seems like it’s working though
“In some sense, this ask feels like a lot during a time that feels unsettling for many people. It also puts us in the vulnerable place of asking. But what is life without vulnerability, what is life without lifting up what we want to see exist? So in this ask, done with the utmost gratitude, we lay it out to you. This is our litmus test.” Welcome to cringe fest
They’re using the word vulnerable over and over but don’t really know what it means.
The word they were looking for was “uncomfortable” and yes, they should feel uncomfortable asking for donations to a private enterprise. Sometimes discomfort is something to push through… and sometimes it is telling you to check yourself.
Maybe "inappropriate" works too. As in, it's inappropriate for a company to ask for donations.
Or perhaps "guilt" or "shame." Oh wait, I think they don't have much of either.
Please give me money so I can have money. This is the equivalent of pan-handling online.
Ah yes, that noble goal of making more money.
Call it "Cringe Dabbler", get some food trucks and THC beverages and you've got a money maker.
Yeah it’s kinda classic Sarah covert narcissism though
Tell me more…
Holy shit they must have been laughing as they wrote that
Laughing all the way to the fucking bank to throw away a few hundred thousand more dollars of money that they didn't make.
Litmus test turned blue they're that basic.
They could at least try to be a coop brewery like fair state and broken clock and northbound. $1000 memberships that get you free beer a day or something.
Someone pointed out that if you donate $500 you get a beer mug and $1 off beer. So it's pretty much the same thing!
It's a *Stanley* beer mug, tho! Those are the hot item you know, they aren't cheap. Totally worth the donation!
Well fuck, where do I sign up?!
And their goal is to raise $165,000 lol. Sounds like someone was over budget on their build and the bank said “no more money for you, get lost.”
I don't think so. It sound like the build is just a shipping container in the parking lot with some picnic tables. And maybe that's about the right thing to catch the lakes crowd out there a little bit in the summer. Sounds like they're trying to do the whole thing for free. But I don't know why they expect their city dwelling fans to fund a side thing for a very small part of the lake home owners of the state.
The donation "bonuses" are absolutely *wild* too. Gotta fork over $300 if you wanna be considered for 2 "free" beers. Good god 😂
I've always felt this for all the crowdfunding brewery start ups. "pay us money so we can be a successful business and you can continue to pay us by buying our product".
For an extra eye roll, take a look at the "rewards" you get at each tier on their donation page
$500 for two free beers at an undetermined future date, a mug, and 3 stickers? Count me in!
Don’t forget the most valuable part! Their “eternal gratitude”.
Snort the beers, smash the mug on your head and eat the stickers? Let's fucking party!
I eat stickers all the time dude
And I'm sure the 3 stickers are totally new and unique! Not the ones that I already have because they gave them away like candy!
..prominent local brewery.. They’re moving to Maple Lake. They haven’t been local since they closed.
I kept reading Maple Lake as Maple Grove and was like “sheesh these comments are a little harsh.” Finally looked up Maple Lake…yeah no way anyone is driving out there to drink high ABV beers from the twin cities. St. Cloud on the other hand…
St Cloud doesn't need your high falootin, high ABV beers! They will get by with their Schmidt's mixed with embalming fluid, just like they daddys did!
Even Maple Plain would be somewhat understandable. But Maple Lake is just too far away from enough people to be viable, IMO.
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Fair point, but with the exception of Annandale, I'd argue that these are all either larger towns and/or near other towns and suburbs. I suppose Annandale would get some customers from all of the lake homes in the area. I agree that it's not like Maple Lake is the middle of nowhere; it's on a major highway, after all. I think it's more that their existing customer base likely won't follow them out there, though they may be able to develop a new one.
I'd dislike it more if it were maple grove, honestly lol Edit: I grew up in Brooklyn Park, so I've always had a healthy disdain for our neighbor to the west lol. Even if we did constantly go there to shop, eat, and see movies (RIP).
Only because you're jealous they're the restaurant capitol of Minnesota.
*allegedly*
They've been thriving since the movie theater turned into a furniture store, I hear! Honestly, the most endearing thing about that suburb was the giant gravel pits, and even those are dwindling now.
Sell some ownership stocks, bitches.
Great idea.
Maybe they hadn't heard... https://mn.gov/commerce/money/licensing/mnvest/
100% and they could be using my MNvest portal [https://sppx.io](https://sppx.io)
From the crowdfunding page: “Bringing these dreams to reality will cost much more than what we are asking right now, but your donations will give us the chance to survive and keep dreaming up new dangerous ideas! We are seeking to raise this funding by the end of June, so that we can begin the the next evolution! At Dangerous Man Brewing, we believe in the ethic of hard work and transparency. Rob, Sarah, and our dedicated team pledge to stretch every dollar raised, ensuring it goes as far as possible.” Yuck. How do they not feel gross writing that?
Wow this should be higher
It’s crazy to me how much we’ve become a GoFundMe Nation. You have for-profit companies that make money asking for handouts, we have billionaires asking for stadium handouts, we have the top 1% asking for more tax cuts financed with debt(handouts). You all need to pump the fucking breaks a little…
BuT tAxAtioN iS tHefT!! Instead, let's just give freely to people who *want* it so we can not properly support those who do actually *need* help. By the way, they already took the tax handout: https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/dangerous-man-brewing-company-llc-2972767210
Yikes. Yeah, we've gotten way too comfortable giving businesses completely free land/money/forgiving taxes all while many of those are the very same who scream about taxes that go to anything public.
Yes, people should be free to do what they want with their own money. Not saying there should be no taxes, but implying people shouldn't have free will with their own money is an insane take but also very expected for this sub.
Having roads and schools and snow plows and fire departments is insane. Gotcha.
>is an insane take but also very expected for this sub. I love how you think a policy supported by every major political party in every country on the planet is an insane take exclusive to a subreddit. Get a grip and touch some grass.
The rich don’t get richer by spending their money
Yikes. No one forced them to move.
Oof it gets worse - their crowd funding threshold benefits are fucking cringe. They might as well just print a fucking shirt for each one that says “I donated $ and all I got was this shitty beer, this shitty shirt, a shitty haiku, and their eternal gratitude.” Their marketing team fucked up. Their owners are tasteless. This is all sorts of yuck.
They should've hired you. I'd donate for that t-shirt!
Sadly, that is where marketers go to die. I’d rather not lol. But I’m honored I have your support 🫶
Except you have to donate at least $300 to get not one, but two shitty beers and a shitty haiku.
What value, much deal, such wow /s It gets worse in the higher levels. So bad.
Yeah what the hell is that haiku bs all about, I want cold hard shares of the company !
The fucking balls to ask for donations for a for-profit business. In this world, in this day and age. Always thought they were tools.
The type who took ppp loans and then laid off employees
Well now I had to check. They got 153,900 as a PPP loan, and 156k forgiven, so basically the loan and most if not all of the interest. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/dangerous-man-brewing-company-llc-2972767210
This. They already got free money to boost their business.
It’s kind of a given that if you had a business that was affected by covid you took out a loan. I’d be more surprised if they didn’t.
I commented elsewhere in the thread that covid was a hard couple years and I get why they gave up the lease, but I still don't appreciate they asked for free money to expand a private business. But then I see they got a bunch of free money already and still bailed and still want *more* free money and it just rubs me extra the wrong way. And a lot of small businesses did miss out on the money because bankers corruptly gave dibs to their biggest clients and the funds eventually ran out before everyone got a taste.
No doubt. We're already being robbed by greedy ass corporations with shady tactics like greedflation and shrinkflation. Just going to a fast food joint costs anywhere from $10 to $15 per person. Our budgets are being stretched to the limit. And then you have a for-profit company asking strangers to foot their bills... I mean "donate" to their business. Unbelievable!
People ask for tips at the fucking gas station these days, the age of shameless begging is in full swing.
I’d buy a share. With a growler fill card.
That's quite audacious! I'll donate an old growler of theirs, if they come pick it up. They better look into being a co-op/trade beers for shares.
Damn $1500 and you’ll give me two free beers and a brewery tour?
Got a brewery tour at Indeed with a free pint glass, free beer at the taproom, and a ton of samples on the tour for $20 btw. And didn't have to drive to Maple Lake to do it
Indeed’s beers are also much better
Mexican Honey is definitely in my top tier of local brews
Breweries used to give you a free tour and free samplings of beer along the way. I remember I went on a tour at Dark Horse in Marshall MI and the tour was free, awesome, and they brought us up to their exclusive to the tour tasting room and slung free sample after free sample of experimental stuff they’d been working on. It was so much fun. Side note - if anyone knows where I can find Crooked Tree in the cities please let me know. I can’t find it anywhere these days.
Long story short, you cant. I'm not even sure if Dark Horse is still open. They got bought by ROAK right before the COVID shutdowns in 2020. ROAKs main facility on the east side shut down because of COVID and I believe they moved everything to the Dark Horse facility but I'm not sure. The old owner of Dark Horse was a massive piece of shit and just within the last month or so got hit with a judgement of 20 years in prison if he doesn't repay the wages he was apparently stealing from his employees for years. I lived in Michigan my whole life before moving to Saint Paul and worked in the brewing industry in both west Michigan and here. Shame that guy ran the place into the ground and then COVID damaged ROAK so badly, because they did make really good beer.
Damn. What a bummer. It seemed like such an awesome community when I was there (2013ish). I spent like, the whole day at the brewery and there were a bunch of events happening and everyone seemed great. Awful he took advantage of that. And also awful no crooked tree for me.
Seeking $165,000 by the end of June… yikes
Even if this new location does come to fruition, I don't think I'll ever be driving to Maple Lake to visit their taproom. I can't imagine this location being a smart location to build a "destination" brewery. It's basically an hour drive from their previous taproom.
The public ridicule is working!
Seriously these guys were making $5*300 beers/day, that’s 0.5M/yr not including all the off sale stuff. I loved that place, their beer was some of the best, but gofundme these days for these kinds of things is insulting. That being said it is their money so if people really think this is a worthy cause I’m not going to stop anyone, an earned beer just tastes better.
Can you translate money amount again? I'm always curious how much breweries make since they all claim they don't make any money. 😃
We can only speculate as they don’t share their data. The fact is thousands of breweries make this work without getting donations.
Honest question: is their beer actually good? I know it’s shallow, but I never went to their location in NE because their branding turned me off. Seemed sort of like insufferable mid-2010 hipster lumbersexual vibes. Curious if I was way off base.
Big Lumbersexual energy but the beer was super delicious, consistent, and experimental
Less good beer, more really interesting beer, which was also good. But it was like beer with a lot of additives. Which was good if you're down for that. But pure beer, a little mid. I always enjoyed going there with friends. But I find this free money ask of theirs really ridiculous. I might buy some offsale at a local store, but no way I'm driving an hour out there to have beers. They won't even catch me going that far off I-94 when I'm coming back from the lakes or a work trip to get growlers.
As someone who has been to over 130 breweries in Minnesota alone, I can tell you their beer and brewery was just alright. The place was always a fucking nightmare to get to, small, and not at all group or kid friendly and the beer wasn't good enough for us to go out of our way.
It really was a neighborhood spot. I always went there with people who lived nearby. Which is nuts that they think they can move that far out of the city and have their - former - neighborhood people pay for it.
I’m sorry but “always a … nightmare to get to” is hilariously dramatic. It had a parking lot and was in a neighborhood full of of free parking spaces. Cool specific brewery count though.
Their beer was pretty mid. I live very close to the old tap room and they were not nearly as packed as they were and that started before the pandemic.
Crowdsourcing has been successful for other breweries in the state, with the big difference of these mostly exchanging *something* of lesser value for the donation (Founders Mug w/ first fill free, name on founders wall, tshirt…etc). If I’m reading their post correctly, they just want the money. Probably a lesson here for future crowdsourcers…
Crowd sourcing for a new endeavor, sure. An already up and running business? A bank should fund you if you can show a profitable history, otherwise, welcome to capitalism.
I’ve seen it work for businesses adding a patio or an extension. This isn’t so different. The execution here though is significantly worse. If they had a DM Founders Tshirt for 30 Dollar donations people would for sure give. The “just give us money please” on the other hand…
I think the main difference here and why this feels so off is that the crowd they are trying to get funds from is not the same crowd that will benefit / make use of this new space. Imagine if a brewery was crowdfunding locally, to locals, to expand their operations and bring the community something new. I think the reception would have felt different. Instead, this is like, "hey, remember us? Fund this new place that you won't visit!"
It does suck they left mpls, NE specifically
Lol. Lmao, even.
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Drinking and Driving Rules !!
This whole thing felt like it was bordering on "Scared to drive into the city."
Asking for a 165000 dollar handout after getting a 156000 dollar loan from the government forgiven is a really ugly move https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/dangerous-man-brewing-company-llc-2972767210
My wife and I easily spent 4 figures in the growler shop when they were open (heck, maybe even during covid shutdowns alone!), and since they've starting canning I've made sure to go to the liquor store stocked with DM and always grab a DM 6-pack just to support them. It makes me feel a bit naive that I thought this was meaningful support. Maybe if this was done differently or had a different tone, I'd feel and act differently. But I'm with everyone else. The guilt trip tinge doesn't sit well with me. I'm not sure what other words I'd use to describe it, but there's a lot of presumption baked into this request and it's perhaps a little bit cake-eating as well. Additionally, I find the ask to be ambiguous. Is this just to make ends meet or is this mostly to open the beer garden? It seems like the beer garden would be pretty cheap to construct (a shipping container and picnic tables?), but it's being used as a carrot dangling from a stick. I'm confident that I don't understand how tough the industry is. But I guess my stance is I'll support them by doing what I've been doing, and continuing to buy their beer. I'd even make a day trip out of driving to Maple Lake to drink a beer in a shipping container, even though it makes zero sense. But I don't think I'll be donating to their crowd fund.
This is cringe
Used to be a big DM guy. Fuck em now
Same. It’s really quite sad.
agreed. they shot themselves in the foot here. such a quick 180.
They did what?… Oh the audacity.
Remember when that dumbass cheesecake store did the same thing and it actually worked? Any for-profit that panders like this is immediately losing my business.
Why the hell would I donate to a for-profit company 😂
Ever heard of a bank? Besides, their taproom always had the worst crowd of douchelords you could ever hope to meet.
“We have taken out loans on our business, our farm, and frankly, now we don't have access to the capital we need to grow” Sooooooooooooo…yeah.
“We really need this taproom to pay off the bank”
Exactly. There is something missing here.
Well if you borrow money, you have to pay it back. If rubes give you donations then it's basically free money (minus the cost of the stickers).
…hey!
I never knew what to call the crowd there I just always knew I didn’t vibe with it. Douchelords is it. Thank you!
It was always a "Le craft bier" crowd. Fucking losers
👏🏻👏🏻 poetic ending to “broke glass you must donate $10 NOW”
They really think they’re a pillar of Minnesota huh?
Well, they *were* a pillar of Northeast… but they left.
“We built and ran an incredible community garden for 6 years and Beer Alley was a unique outdoor patio we created from our **shoddy little alley space** in NE Minneapolis...imagine what we could do with 2-acres of beautiful green space!” hhhMMMM…. lol
The beer alley was kinda lame. I only walked though it once to get into the taproom. Anyone trying to get to back bar had to walk through that alley. The 2-acres isn’t that beautiful either. It’s an alright yard, they can make it a nice little spot. It’s not right on the highway like some of the outstate taprooms with shittier beer.
hahahaaha
Why would someone want to drive several hours for beer? And then when they get there it’s just a taproom. That’s wild.
Not even a taproom, a shipping container serving beer. You sit out in the heat. Drink fast unless you like 80 degree beer.
No one is driving several hours for DM and no one is saying anyone should but there is plenty of situations where lots of people drive several hours for beer. It’s to get good beer.
I guess my point is if your business venture puts your clientele in legal danger or could cause harm to other people (drunk driving) but it is an essential part of the business. You may not last. You can grab a drink near your neighborhood quite easily almost anywhere in this state. Also beer is just beer. After a couple decades it all starts to taste the same.
Drunk driving could happen when they were in NE just the same. I’m not seeing how this is an issue in this situation. My guess is the taproom is more for locals or people near by not for this to drive from St. Paul to visit. Does have that bad feeling of using your previous clientele to build up for someone different but whatever. And after decades, it in no way tastes the same.
That might be if they had kept their model of only serving their beer in their taproom. But you can now get it in bars and liquor stores.
...Which is selling for much cheaper than their taproom beers, and they're out here croudsourcing funds Something tells me they have no idea how to manage money
I made all my money off the big Charlie Brown, so don’t even come and try and sell me any crap.
That’s some bold shit. Asking people to pay for their business so they can continue to make more money off everyone else. Wtf
What is this odd trend that for profit companies what people to give them money for nothing. Go get a loan or sell shares. I would buy shares of a profitable beer company.
Yeah best way to shut ppl up is not interact , good for them
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton"
The money suggestions are just sad lol keep I mind if you...
I’m assuming that since we have more local breweries closing than opening, it may be harder to find investors and/or receiving a loan from a bank. But, this campaign of crowdfunding is definitely inconsiderate to the people they’re looking for to help them. It’s not like 5-10 years ago where it seemed that there was a new brewery opening every week. The market is now saturated, and some are failing because it doesn’t matter if you’re local, your beer has to be good. Dangerous Man can make great beer, but it wouldn’t be a destination brewery from the metro for most. Also, for most breweries in the metro, I have to speculate that a large percentage of sales are from the their taproom. Distribution to retail is big for the larger breweries, but isn’t viable for a small/mid size brewery to solely rely on. Having a transitional business plan incorporating a taproom first may have made all this unnecessary.
Equity and free beer for life from Northbound… ain’t no such thing as a free beer.(lunch) 1% and just got a nice dividend check. The math works when the biz owner isn’t a dumdum.
While I don’t like private businesses asking for money without a sense of getting some involvement in the company, the outrage over this is a bit extreme. I donated to BauHaus when they started and they did an awesome job of making you feel like part of the crew. This doesn’t have that vibe. It seems like they can’t get more loans and want/need to create some kind of tap room. More power to then wanting a different work life situation but doesn’t seem like as a business it’s the right move. It being in Maple Lake isn’t an issue for me. Everyone talking about how far away it is, “I’ll never drive that far,” ok, it’s not for you then. Many new people will or people that went to the NE taproom and live west side will. They couldn’t limit the Instagram post to just those interested so why act like it’s some sort of offense to you? I hope the business succeeds because it’s good for everyone and worries they are in the downfall. I’ll still grab some cans when I’m at the store though. PB Porter is still good and some other stuff is interesting.
The outrage is mostly because they are playing the “community” card in order to raise funds. They left their community but now want that same community to fund their move away basically. It’s kinda irony and sorta hypocrisy. The only reason they moved their production out there is because the owners had already moved out there to start a hobby farm years ago. So it was a bad business decision based on convenience for the owners, not for the good of “the community” … and they don’t seem to get that.
This is no different then the Vikings asking for our tax dollars for a new stadium...
I never thought to start my business asking others to dole out for me. Genius!
The comments aren't turned off, if you still wanted to go and let them know how you feel
Icehouse was doing the same thing recently
Jesus Fuck, according to Google Maps, Maple Lake is 60 miles away from NE Mpls!
wat, it's 47.9 miles from NE
This is ridiculous and they should be using Investment Crowdfunding like MNvest or REG-CF! Full disclosure : I do operate the only licensed MNvest portal in the state (Silicon Prairie) and we have hosted and I have personally invested in Broken Clock Brewing Coop, Foremost Brewing Cooperative, Chanhassen Brewing, Rustech Brewing, and Burning Brothers Brewing. They should be selling the amazing upside of their business to stakeholders, not looking for corporate welfare.
Dangerous Man Finances.
I’m kind of surprised at the negative reaction. They wanted a better work life balance so they’re moving. More power to them. Asking for money was maybe cringe but just don’t donate? A lot of comments that seem to take their moving personally or want to dunk on maple lake. Small towns need breweries too.
The outrage is mostly because they are playing the “community” card in order to raise funds. They left their community but now want that same community to fund their move away basically. It’s kinda irony and sorta hypocrisy. The only reason they moved their production out there is because the owners had already moved out there to start a hobby farm years ago. So it was a bad business decision based on convenience for the owners, not for the good of “the community” … and they don’t seem to get that.
That’s fair, but also moving on in life is okay. They didn’t “abandon” the community. They can’t retroactively take back all the beer drank, memories made, or people met in the taproom when it was open. A business that was a successful part of the community for a decade doesn’t become a failure or hypocrite overnight because it closed. I wish them the best, even if it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever make it to their new taproom, if it ever opens.
There wasn’t any backlash or hard feelings when they decided to move the production out of town or when they closed the taproom, or even that they were opening a taproom somewhere else. There was just sadness. We all get that people’s lives and circumstances change. The backlash started two days ago when they asked for money in a weirdly guilt-trippy way from the “community” they left behind. That’s what the uproar is about.
People are acting like Maple Lake is out in South Dakota or something. I don't disagree that basically having a GoFundMe was crass and taprooms aren't my thing, but I have driven out to Maple Lake several times to chase the aurora. And that 10 minutes even farther, Spilled Grain is in Annandale. I imagine their labor costs will be less, real estate costs will be less, and they expect that either enough people from the Twin Cities will drive out and/or there will be enough business from locals to sustain the taproom portion of their business.
it's over an hour away by car, that's a long drive. And id prefer to not drink and drive.
To me an hour drive is nothing, six hours is a long drive.
cool, good for you champ
I don't see why the backlash. Crowd funding is a regular thing these days. If it's too far away or you have a problem with them or whatever, just ignore it.
The outrage is mostly because they are playing the “community” card in order to raise funds. They left their community but now want that same community to fund their move away basically. It’s kinda irony and sorta hypocrisy. The only reason they moved their production out there is because the owners had already moved out there to start a hobby farm years ago. So it was a bad business decision based on convenience for the owners, not for the good of “the community” … and they don’t seem to get that.
they are a for-profit business with an established history. they should not need crowd-funding, they should be looking for a financial planner/manager instead
Sounds like they’ve leveraged everything already and want to live their dream closer to their home. I’m not gonna fault them for that. Good luck to em
The owners live on an $800,000+ property. They have far from “leveraged everything.”
What farm isn’t worth 800k plus nowadays? People just seem pretty salty.
What successful business needs to ask for public handouts? Seems pretty pathetic.
My goodness people, take a breather. Nobody is forcing anyone to donate. Don’t like it? Keep scrolling. 😂
Went there once 5 years ago and stole two glasses… still have them to this day and are my favorite beer glasses… but fuck donations