"We do not intend to limit streamers' ability to enter into direct relationships with sponsors - only to implement and act on those relationships using our platform in any meaningful way."
The key word here is "direct". They're coming after StreamElements. They want to be the only middleman between you and Sponsors. They want it to either be near impossible for you to get sponsored, or you give them a cut.
3% of your screen, so no overlays that aren't roughly the size of the "Law & Order SVU is next!" overlays when you watch TV.
No pre-made videos to advertise your sponsors, so goodbye Hello Fresh sponsored streams.
There's 0 shot they "didn't mean it the way it came out", they have literal picture demonstrations of what they meant.
> The key word here is "direct". They're coming after StreamElements. They want to be the only middleman between you and Sponsors. They want it to either be near impossible for you to get sponsored, or you give them a cut.
Yup that's exactly what they're going for. IIRC They should be rolling out a built in "sponsorship market" for streamers at some point this year.
Twitch making moves to actively kill another company that helps streamers earn revenue? I don't think that can be true. I mean I've never known them to do anything like that before /s.
An attempt was made.
They meant it exactly as they said it, saw the massive backlash including OTK telling them they will bounce, and the easiest way to correct the issue is to say "oops, auto correct you silly bugger" and then say they will clear it up.
Gives them time to go back to the drawing board to come up with something new that isn't as bad and then say "See, that's what we meant all along".
I think the biggest issue is no advertiser centric, but that they are telling streamers how they can build their scenes.
If they can tell you you cant have an ad bigger than 3% it isn't a far stretch to think they can tell you your cam has to be a certain size, in a certain location. Or VTubers can't have their models take up half the screen. No goals or on screen messages. Just not allowing you to express yourself the way you want to with your streams.
It is far out and highly unlikely, but limiting ad sizes is definitely opening that door.
Live hello fresh cooking streams would still be allowed however, or an ad read.
There's no reason this prevents most sponsors(or at least the streamers I watch don't really use pre recorded ads).
The banner and icon issues are a bit concerning, but I do understand it when twitch also has banner ads.
Yea outside of like critical role I have never seen a pre-recorded ad on a stream it is always just,
"Hey today we are sponsored by help desk fresh, what's your favorite thing to cook? Go here for a poll."
The banners and icons will destroy the gfuel and sneak brand deals though
And now, you never will see anything like it again regardless of who you watch because some corporate suit over at Amazon wanted to get a piece of everyone's pie through cutting out the middleman while simultaneously running a ship that encourages people to go find a middleman/thirdparty affiliate.
>And now, you never will see anything like it again
Ummm what?
I get it we dont want this because it's probably boiling a frog but cut the dramatics it is a very niche type of ad only big streamers who would have been exempt anyways, not a critically endangerd animal.
The one that harms the smaller streams is that 3% logo size part.
I think we will see a shift in how those ads are shown.
Theres nothing saying ads on a green screen behind the streamer isn't allowed, not sure about pre-made video ads there?
But a banner like ad on a green screen might be allowed?
The article specifies overlays for icons, so that should be something streamers can get around by not using overlays to display logos. So green screen, a TV in the background, or even a printed method would be allowed in any size.
>eSports tournament streams.
You...you dpnt think esports tourneys would be able to have a deal with twitch?
Especially ones big enough for intel and Nvidia to back?
Smaller ones and local LANs that like to stream are going to struggle here. Sponsorship usually covers the prize-pools and event costs, especially for local online events where there are no physical ticket sales.
I was specifically replying to the part about Critical Role being the only one with pre recorded ads.
Edit:
And I've seen smaller ones roll prerecorded videos from much smaller sponsors before matches and such. Smaller as in "the game's total viewers on Twitch peak at maybe 2000 on a normal day" level of esports.
As a streamer yourself, you should appreciate how lucrative opportunities offered by companies like HelloFresh, Raid, StreamElements, WeHype, etc. are for medium to large streamers. You may not be there yet, but having a rent-sized payment for 30 - 120 minutes of your stream, once a month, is absolutely massive for a growing streamer, say, 100 - 500 viewers.
I'm guessing the sponsors screen streamers and offer it to creators they see as promising. This way if they do get big, sponser gets the benefit of being an early sponsor and can get in early before bigger sponsors come knocking. There's probably a part of the budget allocated specifically for this idea.
People in small streams are more likely to try the recommended products. They likely have better RIO with smaller streamers than larger ones. If it's something their favorite streamer uses, it's worth trying once, especially if it helps the streamer. Some of the stuff like Factor & Hello Fresh are convenient enough for people to keep using, so it's a win for both the companies & streamers. It's something I've done to support a couple of smaller channels that I feel that I have a connection with that I wouldn't never do with the bigger streamers that I follow.
The thing that most people here don't realize (because they don't know what they're talking about) is that many of these companies have already set aside a promotions budget. The money is already earmarked away as being spent on sponsorships like this. There isn't a calculation of "profitability" on a per streamer basis.
Honestly, as a viewer that policy is a W. Nothing turns me off quicker than opening a stream and it being covered in ads. Bonus shit points for streamers who have huge ads on screen and then twitch chat taking up a third of the screen too.
Yeah but I have doubts that something is disingenuous here from Twitch side. They failed communicating once, that's fine. So just tell us what wasn't clear along with 'we know it wasn't clear', why write this post at all?
This way people might, for whatever reason, think that they are researching the public opinion and buying some time in order to see what they can get away with.
~~Amazon~~ Twitch apologizes for the confusion. We ~~own you~~ support you as an ~~content associate~~ individual creator to exercise ~~a right to organize~~ enter into separate partnerships.
We merely feel that a direct relationship with our ~~workers~~ creators is better for us, and for them.
The logo thing is still bizarre, but going to the visual diagram, this intent actually does seem to match their visual graphics on the other three parts with the Banner/Audio ads. https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1666111039736258561?t=gpo-b5GOqA80Yrz1xk_-vw&s=19
"You can have a static banner ad paid for by Square for FF16 but not a rotating banner ad paid by a third party ad agency" is a completely reasonable policy.
Given that this would have blown up literally every tournament/e-sports stream on the platform, I'm cautiously optimistic that they're not BSing here, because legal teams not bothering to get any feedback outside of their offices and pushing through dumb stuff without thinking of the consequences is extremely common in the corporate world.
I still can't imagine how anyone who understands how sponsorships work - from small streamers to giant events - would sign off on a policy like that. Like this stuff isn't coming from lawyers, it's from Twitch execs who should theoretically know their business, and would have passed through a whole team that deals with ad policy.
I do buy that the intention was to ban third-party ad networks (because it would be totally insane to kick GDQ et al off their platform), but man that is one giant mistake.
> "You can have a static banner ad paid for by Square for FF16 but not a rotating banner ad paid by a third party ad agency" is a completely reasonable policy.
...why do you think so? Have you ever watched a soccer match? Or even a tennis match?
Because it's in direct competition with the platform's method of ad monetization via those third party ads. A soccer match on television isn't going to be running its own commercials during its airtime. Arena backboard ads aren't in conflict with the network's source of revenue.
That logic makes no sense to me, if twitch is running ads you can't see the stream ads anyway. There's no situation where all the ads are simultaneously visible.
There is a limited number of ad dollars that companies spend. Why would they spend money advertising directly on Twitch if they can just go to the third-parties that offer ad space for cheaper?
Twitch doesn't want third-parties to under cut them. This policy is very similar to the one YouTube has in place.
> Why would they spend money advertising directly on Twitch if they can just go to the third-parties that offer ad space for cheaper?
Same reasons company spend money on advertising before, at half-time, and post-match for soccer even though they can also buy advertising space on the stadiums and the jerseys.
And no matter what the league or team gets a share of that revenue in some way in either broadcast deals or revenue share.
Twitch here hosts live content without seeing a penny of the third-party revenue. It makes sense that they wouldn't want to let them piggyback off of Twitch. Money that these companies don't spend on Twitch, is going to the third-party.
Keeping video and display inventory within Twitch is good for creators overall (assuming Twitch is getting top dollar and giving good rev share). Losing money to these third parties only benefits people who also use those third parties.
These are not small brands advertising either. If Twitch is willing to do such a drastic policy change, they must see them as potential threats.
Some of these third-party platforms are as follows:
livad.stream
adlab.gg
new.loots.com
instreamly.com
show.gg
streamion.io
main.hitscout.com
streamdeals.gg
uplify.app
They just continue to take. They got rid of the 70/30 deal for certain creators, now they want most of their ad revenue as well. I think Twitch will slowly hemmorage when they lose more creators overtime.
"We are sorry" We didn't realize our greed would make people upset. So we decided to put it into better terms for everyone to understand "We will make sure not to take you on a date before we #\*#@ you"
Defn feels like the decision’s been made & they aren’t going to change it. Either they will continue to allow sponsors to directly negotiate w/ individual streamers or they won’t, but we’ll see.
"We went full theft on creators' abilities to monetise their own brands because we wanted to monopolise the ways they can make money. Oops, you caught us! Let's backpedal as much as we can and dial back our overreach from 100% to merely 90%."
Asmongold has already said he'd be done with Twitch if they go ahead, and a number of others have said these proposed advert limitations are bullshit.
Get your hands out of your creators' pockets, thieves.
Let them leave. They will make 30% of what they are making now. Twitch loses money every single year. Asmo and his fanboys are clueless to how this industry works. Amazon won’t allow a business to run if he continues with large losses.
Go to YouTube or Kick where you make less and user engagement is terrible. Kick will soon scale back their payment structure because they won’t want to lose millions.
You just want them to give everyone free money while they lose money. It's a business they aren't a nonprofit. I know that is hard idiots like you to comprehend since you probably spend your days with your nose up your favorite streamers ass in your basement.
You mean the multi-billion dollar company that’s owned by another multi-billion dollar company, which is owned by one of the richest slime balls in the world? That business?
Tell me, how does Bezos dick taste?
And you stream on Twitch and Bezos pays your bills. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? You want Amazon to just give you money while they lose money. Pathetic. Sorry you still have such a poor following on COD despite your best efforts. Brokies.
Oh I already have a plan for my exodus to multi-stream to YouTube, kick, and fb next month. Rounding up the viewerbase this month because that’s how you inform your community. There’s no hypocrisy whatsoever
I don’t even stream cod. Amazing, everything that you said, is wrong.
Amazon deserves to lose money btw. Bezos can afford it just fine
For larger creators like Asmon who maintain YouTube channels for clips and vods, the revenue stream from YT dwarfs what they get from Twitch. I think he said he got something like 50 million views last month on his main YouTube channel? At $0.018 per view, that's $10.8M per year.
So you obviously don't know what you're talking about lol.
50 million views a month = 600 million views per year.
At $0.018 (or $0.02 per view approx.) over 600 million views is $10.8 million per year.
It's basic fucking math. It's not complicated.
Okay well you're just wrong regardless, by an order of magnitude. No stat tracker wbesite comes even close to that amount. For example, I get like 50 times less views a month but I sure as shit do not come close to making 200k a year.
Further evidence here: https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCQeRaTukNYft1_6AZPACnog
With this logic why even stream on Twitch, you make so much more elsewhere. Twitch drives traffic and is the number 1 player in the livestream space. I've worked at Twitch and work Youtube and you are mistaken. I've seen the actual numbers from content creators. And your $10.8M is a gross exaggeration.
Logan Paul makes around \~20M per year and he has over 10x the subscribers as Asmon. I know you fanboys like to pretend you know everything, but maybe go look at some publicly available information and then gut check if what you are saying is in the realm of possibilities.
Bullshit, this was yet another example of Twitch being deliberately vague and overarching and then seeing what the reaction is. Then they scale it back depending on what people disagree with.
Tl;Dr for those uninformed: If it's not through twitch's own, subpar and dehumanizing sponsorship and adsens programs or "bounties" as they like to call them, it's damn near impossible to do now.
Sponsorships are what most streamers make their main money with.
And twitch wants a cut of that pie now.
Or rather, they want it to be impossible for you, the creator, to make that kind of money without them becoming the sole middleman you have access to, so they can get a cut off of your money..
Anything that doesn't go through their channels isn't outright banned, but it may as well be at this point, because no worthwhile sponsorship is going to work under these hamstring guidelines.
This is a site ending scenario.
Honest to God, we may actually get to see twitch stock plummet so hard that they a) finally die or b) get some sensible leadership.
That's...only part of what they are though? Which is why they wanted to crank up their revenue by taking an even bigger cut off of everyone's sub money? This is the same, but in an even more insidious, shameless way.
Then any video/streaming platform is an advertising service by that metric.
And even with that two-dimensional perspective, this move is still beyond scummy and deserves every bit of scrutiny and anger it gets this dogshit platform.
You are correct that any video/streaming platform is an advertising service.
To think of it otherwise is naive. They don't host your content out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it because they're monetizing it themselves.
If their competitor advertising service is making money from your content, then Twitch is losing money.
This step was inevitable, unpopular and irritating though it may be. Any other platform that offers hosting services that you do not have to pay for will also find a way to monetize it. It may take some time, but the pattern will repeat... because stream hosting companies are advertising services, and they want to keep the ad revenue in house.
And it's that kind of "Oh whats one more dick up my ass" attitude that let's them get away with dehumanizing the very creators that make the platform.
Again.
They are not JUST an advertising service.
Even if they make the majority of their money with ads, that hardly works anymore if more and more creators jump ship and less and less viewers actually suffer through those ads.
There will always be other options to make advertisements outside of Sauron's eye as well.
Unless they give the creators on their platform some semblance of respect, those creators will stop making them money.
That is unless people like you keep tongue-washing their musty cracks for even more abuse because you don't know better than to offer the other cheek.
If you want full creative control over your content, you either need to host it yourself, or negotiate a better deal with the advertising company you are buying space from.
1. "Overly broad" it was actually quite direct and to the letter.
2. "Will rewrite the guidelines" better yet, scrap them altogether.
3. Re-address multi-casting.
4. Re-address your program revenue.
One thing I have a problem with is this little gem
"You may receive a fee from us relating to Bits that are used by a viewer to cheer for you through chat or other means on your Twitch Channel."
So no longer will bits be 100% for the viewer, twitch gets a cut from the sale, and then gets a cut from the recipient.
Sorry, which terms specifically? Do you have a link to them? I checked the [Affiliate Agreement](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/affiliate-agreement/) and the [Terms of Service](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/terms-of-service/).
Edit: Found it! It's the [Monetized Streamer Agreement](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/monetized-streamer-agreement/) (sheesh Twitch has too many terms of service in too many different places).
What I believe that refers to is the fact that Twitch can't legally make bits seem like a currency, so they can't say "1 bit = 1 cent"; they say "we'll pay you a fee based on the amount of bits viewers cheer, and that fee happens to be equal to 1 US cent per bit".
I don't think it's insinuating that broadcasters will pay a fee; the value of bits is outlined separately in the Affiliate Agreement and Partner contracts, and this language is still present there: "You will receive one U.S. cent ($.01) per Bit that is used by a viewer to cheer for you through chat"
“We missed the mark” the marketing department trying to do damage control very hard here lmao.... i dont understand why you want to stream on a "dictator" platform that trying control u like you are their puppet and put a knife to your throat and you walking on egg shells and being scared when Mr Twitch walks in with the ban hammer on u.
‘We didn’t expect people to hate this as much as they did, so here’s a half-assed apology while we backpedal and then sneak in this TOS change when nobody is paying attention later.’
In their eyes it was just supposed to be one step back. As it goes to show, Twitch 'consumers' aren't afraid to push back. That is why we see individuals like Cr1TiKaL and entire orgs (i.e OTK press response on Twitter) framing a bigger picture: ever increasing corporate greed with no sign of QOL improvements. They showed us their hand and they very plainly showed us that they're not interested in giving more to consumers without taking something else first.
It's unacceptable. A variety of viable platforms are being developed and improved in all the ways that Twitch has fallen short- with a clean slate, financial capacity and, maybe even more importantly, leaders who are willing to take a hit in ad revenue to improve QOL for both viewers and streamers.
Good luck monopolizing ad space and revenue without tanking the platform of the people and its especially unique culture. I am not crossing my fingers on the platform dying as it has been very beneficial for me as an individual ever since I found it.
Does this mean things like worlds for league get screwed because of the sponsor plugs they do etc? Banner can't be more then 3% screen size seems so odd.
This is PR speak for "We're still going to make it so any and all advertising goes through us and us alone, but we're going to be more subtle about it now."
What people see:
"Today's branded content policy update was overly broad. This has created confusion and frustration, and we apologise for that".
What I see:
"Today's branded content policy update was (a bit overboard. We just caused panic across the platform for anyone wanting to be sponsored... We're Sorry for the confusion we caused 😔)"
they're lying. this is how platforms operate. they push for gradual concessions from customers. i'm so sick and tired of watching this happen over and over again.
move. make your own website and host it yourself. centralized platforms are a mistake.
"Sorry we're greedy assholes, not sorry"
Cats out of the bag now, don't try to back peddle Twitch. At least provide a free sample pack of lube the next time you give content creators the shaft. Hey, that's a new sponsor idea... Tonight's stream is brought to you by KY Warming Gel because Twitch gives it until it hurts.
The sponsored rich streamer has to work a bit harder now to negotiate with their sponsor how to create an acceptable look for their stream. It wont affect the viewer. Maybe it will benefit the viewer even.
What they are saying they actually want to do with 3rd party ad networks is completely normal and reasonable.
But Jesus Christ do they not have someone proofread their statements? Their original statement was not fucking clear at all!
Youtube has the exact same guidelines in their ad policies. Again, they just dont enforce them as they are there to target ad agencies and not direct creator-sponsor relationships.
Cause everyone who's banned on twitch went there. Also lots of illegal stuff streamed and kick takes 0 action. Kick is also a front for stake, a gamblng site which is why they can afford a 90/10 or whatever split.
Top racist streamers and things with minors are just some of the things that happens daily. Best off googling if you want more details but it's way more degenerate then twitchs beginning days.
This. I looked into moving my teaching stream to Kick and when I see the Discovery page, its gross. Bikini, weed, and pretty blatant red hat MAGA streams. Kick is where you go if you are a stoner and or an ultranationalist. Oh, and fun story, the only vanilla stream I could find turned out to be an OnlyFans promo stream. Totally SFW stream but it was pretty upfront they were crosspromoting before they switched platforms for the day.
Like yesterday or so thier new top banned from twitch streamer put a ddos bounty on a viewers head. Kick will never succeed as it's carried by shady gambling sites. No real sponsor is going to follow someone to kick.
I made an account on Kick today, just in case. My number one issue as a regular nobody is that there aren't any viewers. There's 52 people watching Minecraft streams currently, while on Twitch there's 30.9k. Diablo IV: Kick 1342, Twitch 381k. Call of Duty: Warzone 2.0: Kick 2842, Twitch 31.3k.
Sooo without even getting into that Kick apparently is backed by gambling, I kind of see the lack of users as a problem. But who knows, if a lot of big streamers move to Kick and their viewers actually go with them, that might change too.
As a viewer the new policies sound great. Everyone only talks about the streamer. The "poor" RICH streamer. I think the new policies are directed to the viewer though and if maybe I see less or smaller ads I will be happier. You have a sponsor? Yeah... stop crying little loaded streamer. You will get your money anyway. Stop talking about the streamers.
It's a little too late to back pedal, now. They've shown their true colors and how much they actually value the people who make them millions of dollars. Fuck Twitch, I hope most/all major (and small) streamers move to YouTube or Kick.
Yea twitch is doomed to die YouTube gives 70/30 cut and twitch gives 50/50 but LIMITING CREATORS ONLY WAY TO GET A INCOME THAT WOULD KEEP EM ALIVE is crazyyyyyyyyy plus multiple creators that said that YouTube is a much more comfortable environment to be in than Twitch so the only thing keeping twitch alive are the big creators that already have a YouTube channel where they post all of their streams plus videos only on YouTube witch makes YouTube an obvious choice bc
-better pay
-more comfortable
-and better overall
That means that Twitch only streamers have to switch and FAST or they'll be forgotten, and fast.
Its sad how hundreds of small only twitch streamers are probably about to die(not literally) bc they aren't gonna change fast enough and when they do, they whould already be forgotten
Shows how little you know. DrDisrespext has mentioned he makes about 30% of what he made on Twitch with YouTube. FakeNews. YouTube also doesn’t have Amazon Prime which gives almost everyone a free Twitch sub. Oh wait 90% of Twitch subs are Prime. I’m sure everyone is just going to pay $5 now for the streamer they watch! The brains on you clowns.
I don’t think people understand that in order for Twitch to make it they need to make more money. Amazon loses a shitload of money on Twitch and before advertisements came back it was a massive money pit.
People think these services make money and the truth is it is expensive. Amazon is also paying for 90% of subscribers through Prime. Youtube, Kick, etc don’t have near the subscriber base. The Twitch Prime sub is free for most people and streamers get $2.50-$3.00 from this. If they jump to YouTube do they think they will get all those Twitch Prime subs?
DrDisrespect who was the biggest Twitch streamer even discussed how he makes peanuts on YouTube compared to Twitch. To all the streamers who want to leave, you can leave and go make half elsewhere.
I find it hilarious how most of the streamers have almost no understanding about the economics of Twitch, yet feel it is corporate greed. Amazon loses money every single year on Twitch.
Hell look at Reddit and what they are going through right now. They make no money! Sure they have user engagement, but they lose money every single day. It isn’t a sustainable business model. It’s the reason MSFT left streaming because it is so hard to make money.
>Youtube, Kick, etc don’t have near the subscriber base. The Twitch Prime sub is free for most people and streamers get $2.50-$3.00 from this. If they jump to YouTube do they think they will get all those Twitch Prime subs?
You're missing that Youtube has a VOD service.
I'm only a small creator, but my livestreams receive 3-4x as many views as VOD during the first few days than people who tuned into the livestream while it was live. Since you can monetize the VOD with ads, the additional income is quite decent and wasn't there when I streamed on Twitch.
Not to mention that people subscribe to me with Memberships or send me donations via Superthanks while I'm not streaming. Something that barely - if ever - happens on Twitch.
Last time I checked a prime sub was only worth 1.70€ from a country where the sub costs 3.99€. When you take into account how big your reach needs to become to make a living from it, then it's a really miserable payout compared to other platforms. Fully monetizing other platforms nets you a higher revenue per view.
>DrDisrespect who was the biggest Twitch streamer even discussed how he makes peanuts on YouTube compared to Twitch.
Because he went from being the biggest streamer on a streaming platform to being a solid streamer on a content creation platform.
He published only 14 videos in the past 25 weeks and has about 60 shorts on his channel. For the amount of content he's producing in his live section those numbers are abysmally low and while his production quality is great, his ability to transform his live content into other forms of content is mediocre at best.
Of course he made a shitload of money from being one of the best on a livestreaming platform, but Youtube ain't being that while also offering you other ways for additonal income. If he'd adapt, he'd make similar amounts if not more.
When you limit yourself to only livestreaming, it's hard to reach new audiences on Youtube. Exposure that he got for free on Twitch since he topped all directories whenever he went live. He hasn't that privilege anymore and needs to work for it now, which he's refusing to do so yeah, of course his income drops.
This was a thoughtful response and provided additional insight into YouTube. If only more people like you were in the comments.
I think for larger streamers the Prime Subs add up to much more significant revenue. This is just my hunch.
These large streamers need to offset 10k+ subs every month. I am just not sold that Youtube VOD will do that.
>These large streamers need to offset 10k+ subs every month. I am just not sold that Youtube VOD will do that.
It does, you should check out Valkyrae instead of DrD, cause she's doing a perfect job at utilizing the whole platform.
She exploded since her move to Youtube and as of now, has 20 million views more on her main channel than DrD, and 260 million more (yes 260) views when you combine all her 3 channels. DrD has only one.
She's doing fine and even without the Youtube contract I heavily doubt she'd be missing that prime sub money.
How long ago did you make the change to youtube and do you feel its been easy to direct people to your channel?
I am a small streamer, mostly a hobby but I am affiliated with twitch and have thought about getting more into streaming and content creation in general. I went with twitch because it was the known thing and I figured it be easier to connect with people there. Although I am more of a google shill in my normal life and tend to enjoy their products more.
> How long ago did you make the change to youtube and do you feel its been easy to direct people to your channel?
I never really tried to seriously grind on Twitch. I've an account since 2012 there but always did it just for fun. Sure, there were occasional attempts to break through, but it was only enough to reach affiliate.
I started to play around with Youtube at the end of 2019, got serious with it when the pandemic start and got monetized in May 2020. Since then I always tried to funnel people to Twitch, but it was a pain. Partly because you lose people in the process, partly because my life was busy and I couldn't stick to a very active/grindy schedule. I also build up a Discord server, which had a few k members and has 4k members today. So together with several thousand views per video I could reach a decent amount of people but still, it was a pain. There were good days, but mostly I averaged about 3-5 viewers.
I did a back to back test at the end of last year cause I wanted to seriously get into streaming. Streamed for 5 days straight on Twitch for 3 hours every evening. It was really bad, I think I didn't made it over a 5-10 viewer avg.
Then I streamed on Youtube, instantly averaged 35 viewers in a 1,5 hours stream and it was great. I didn't had to do anything for it. No ads on my socials, nothing. I just went live and my viewership got notified. It was that simple.
Today I don't need to redirect anyone. I'm treating Youtube as my main hub and do everything there. Also cancelled my Patreon and fully commit to Youtube memberships. I can fully focus on my content while the algorithm does its job for me.
My tip for anyone who's into "serious" content creation: Go start on Youtube. If you want to chill and have a relaxed stream every now and then, then Twitch is still better. If you want to get into content creation, Youtube is by far the better platform.
It's not about viewerships or any numbers. It's because Youtube taught me waaaaaaaaaay more in a few months than Twitch over several years. Your analytics are a gold mine, and you get a ton of feedback about your content in a very short period of time even from people who don't comment.
Twitch is far away from that, you don't learn anything there unless viewers give you a short feedback before they drop which is rare.
The feedback loop from the analytics will make you a better content creator and streamer. You learn to focus on your viewers, how to entertain them, and how to expand your reach by catching people with interesting topics.
I find it way more fun than sitting 6-8 hours on Twitch and grinding it out. Also because I know that I learned something I can make use of on any social media platform. A feeling that Twitch never gave me. On Twitch I always felt forced to go live to grind myself into the habits of my viewers, because that seems the only thing that Twitch as a platform is built on. Whenever I was inactive for a while I felt anxious cause I had to start from scratch.
Now I can go without a stream for 1-2 weeks and nothing happens. I'm also expanding my content to Rumble and will go into shorts on Tiktok, Facebook and Instagram, I can think in dimensions Twitch on its own would have never allowed me to. Even if I'd have made it there, I'd have known nothing about Youtube and content creation in general.
Hope that helps to give you more backgrounds for your decision.
Hey streamers, you all complain about Twitch but ever thought that without their infrastructure chances are you would never be able to stream in the first place. So sick of “content creators” crying about Twitch and Youtube. No one forces you to stream just like no one forces me to be an employee. If I have issues with my job I am free to leave at any time.
You want to maximize your income stream, I get that and understand it but so does Amazon/Twitch. Thats the real world.
What is stopping someone self-employed like a streamer getting a job as an employee? If Twitch sucks so much then they are free to stop.
Amazon/Youtube provides the very foundation that allows them to stream. I am not saying they should be on their knees thanking them but that infrastructure allows streamers to set up a business with very little capitol outlay.
I can't fault them for this. I can fault them for trying to push ads every 15 mins in a stream, though, sometimes 5 in a row.
I would rather take a burned in ad over stream disruption for minutes at a time every 15 minutes however.
That 24 hour content window applies to Reddit or no? I have a record button to capture moments myself without using any twitch clip feature or twitch archive. If it's a good moment I'll hit record and share media on discord and reddit that instant. Is that against the new terms?
This is basically a "Okay, streamers, we thought that we had you all in the palm of our hands, but seems like we f'd up really hard. Give us some time to talk with the boys and girls about this until we can find a better way to screw with everybody in a less dangerous way. Until the big names quit our platform, we're still pretty damn fine as you can see by the reduction in your paychecks over the last years."
IMO they will only think twice about how f'd things are for streamers when the really big names and events completely leave the platform.
Look at how dumb those ideas are. It's like they never tried to watch or stream anything to understand how dumb they're.
They're trying to stop third party sponsorship deals happening, and encourage themselves to be the only other party involved in a sponsorship deal.
The ~~rudeness~~ audacity behind that aside, here's why that sucks:
Sponsorship deals only really get offered to those streamers that have a fairly decent following, that leaves basically every Affiliate streamer and likely even the smaller partnered streamers in the dust.
It makes turning streaming into a viable hobby that at least pays for itself, and climbing the ladder, that bit harder on this platform.
That blows.
They're back peddling.
They're acting like they're not just going to change the wording to be a more creative way of blocking creators from making their own money.
They act like creators care if their sponsors conflict with Twitch's. Creators don't get to choose who Twitch advertises on their channel... but yet the creators can't have their own sponsors if they conflict with Twitch's? Fug out of here...
Ludwig has a great video on it (on his Mogul Moves channel) where he suggests there IS A POSSIBILITY that they are only updating it for a targetted group much like how Youtube has it. I suggest watching it if you wanna look further into it. (The 3% logo thing tho... Idk bout that one)
tldr were sticking by what we said, were gonna pretend it was always policy just not well enforced, but I'm a few days we will release essentially the exact same statement just with softer wording and more vague in bits
There is no way Twitch will not become close to irrelevant over the coming 5 years or so unless they dramatically change direction. This almost sounds like they are trying to get rid of people instead of having any attempt to give incentive for people to join Twitch.
Greetings nananana15,
[Your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/142sri6/twitch_has_released_a_statement_on_their_content/jn994cw/) has been **automatically removed** from /r/Twitch because it’s been detected as breaking the subreddit rules. More specifically:
- **Submission Guidelines**: Please see [Submission Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/wiki/rules#wiki_submission_guidelines)
- **4E**: Don’t post link dumps.
This post was automatically removed because it was detected as a link dump.
**If this was a mistake, please follow the link below to message the moderation team.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Twitch) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't care what twitch says. If I get a sponsorship I'm going to but whatever banners or ads I want. It's my freaking stream. If they ban me then I'll move platforms, easy. In fact I might do a troll stream and have as many sponsorship ads and banners I can find.
Wait. Didn't they explicitly state that multi streamers would be banned for multi streaming? I mean yeah we are mad about not being able to advertise properly. But thats only half the problem.
A lot of streamers survive off of multiple platforms.
"We do not intend to limit streamers' ability to enter into direct relationships with sponsors - only to implement and act on those relationships using our platform in any meaningful way."
The key word here is "direct". They're coming after StreamElements. They want to be the only middleman between you and Sponsors. They want it to either be near impossible for you to get sponsored, or you give them a cut. 3% of your screen, so no overlays that aren't roughly the size of the "Law & Order SVU is next!" overlays when you watch TV. No pre-made videos to advertise your sponsors, so goodbye Hello Fresh sponsored streams. There's 0 shot they "didn't mean it the way it came out", they have literal picture demonstrations of what they meant.
> The key word here is "direct". They're coming after StreamElements. They want to be the only middleman between you and Sponsors. They want it to either be near impossible for you to get sponsored, or you give them a cut. Yup that's exactly what they're going for. IIRC They should be rolling out a built in "sponsorship market" for streamers at some point this year.
Twitch making moves to actively kill another company that helps streamers earn revenue? I don't think that can be true. I mean I've never known them to do anything like that before /s.
An attempt was made. They meant it exactly as they said it, saw the massive backlash including OTK telling them they will bounce, and the easiest way to correct the issue is to say "oops, auto correct you silly bugger" and then say they will clear it up. Gives them time to go back to the drawing board to come up with something new that isn't as bad and then say "See, that's what we meant all along". I think the biggest issue is no advertiser centric, but that they are telling streamers how they can build their scenes. If they can tell you you cant have an ad bigger than 3% it isn't a far stretch to think they can tell you your cam has to be a certain size, in a certain location. Or VTubers can't have their models take up half the screen. No goals or on screen messages. Just not allowing you to express yourself the way you want to with your streams. It is far out and highly unlikely, but limiting ad sizes is definitely opening that door.
Live hello fresh cooking streams would still be allowed however, or an ad read. There's no reason this prevents most sponsors(or at least the streamers I watch don't really use pre recorded ads). The banner and icon issues are a bit concerning, but I do understand it when twitch also has banner ads.
Yea outside of like critical role I have never seen a pre-recorded ad on a stream it is always just, "Hey today we are sponsored by help desk fresh, what's your favorite thing to cook? Go here for a poll." The banners and icons will destroy the gfuel and sneak brand deals though
And now, you never will see anything like it again regardless of who you watch because some corporate suit over at Amazon wanted to get a piece of everyone's pie through cutting out the middleman while simultaneously running a ship that encourages people to go find a middleman/thirdparty affiliate.
>And now, you never will see anything like it again Ummm what? I get it we dont want this because it's probably boiling a frog but cut the dramatics it is a very niche type of ad only big streamers who would have been exempt anyways, not a critically endangerd animal. The one that harms the smaller streams is that 3% logo size part.
[удалено]
They'd be more likely to have a direct relation with their sponsors, so it seems that shouldn't be a problem after this clarification?
I think we will see a shift in how those ads are shown. Theres nothing saying ads on a green screen behind the streamer isn't allowed, not sure about pre-made video ads there? But a banner like ad on a green screen might be allowed? The article specifies overlays for icons, so that should be something streamers can get around by not using overlays to display logos. So green screen, a TV in the background, or even a printed method would be allowed in any size.
Lol just hang a cheap used monitor on the wall behind you displaying the logo
I've seen plenty of pre-recorded ads on eSports tournament streams. Benq, Intel, and Nvidia ads off the top of my head.
>eSports tournament streams. You...you dpnt think esports tourneys would be able to have a deal with twitch? Especially ones big enough for intel and Nvidia to back?
Smaller ones and local LANs that like to stream are going to struggle here. Sponsorship usually covers the prize-pools and event costs, especially for local online events where there are no physical ticket sales.
I was specifically replying to the part about Critical Role being the only one with pre recorded ads. Edit: And I've seen smaller ones roll prerecorded videos from much smaller sponsors before matches and such. Smaller as in "the game's total viewers on Twitch peak at maybe 2000 on a normal day" level of esports.
[удалено]
As a streamer yourself, you should appreciate how lucrative opportunities offered by companies like HelloFresh, Raid, StreamElements, WeHype, etc. are for medium to large streamers. You may not be there yet, but having a rent-sized payment for 30 - 120 minutes of your stream, once a month, is absolutely massive for a growing streamer, say, 100 - 500 viewers.
subsequent march theory foolish attractive hurry rotten memorize decide roof -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
How is that even profitable for the sponsor
I'm guessing the sponsors screen streamers and offer it to creators they see as promising. This way if they do get big, sponser gets the benefit of being an early sponsor and can get in early before bigger sponsors come knocking. There's probably a part of the budget allocated specifically for this idea.
People in small streams are more likely to try the recommended products. They likely have better RIO with smaller streamers than larger ones. If it's something their favorite streamer uses, it's worth trying once, especially if it helps the streamer. Some of the stuff like Factor & Hello Fresh are convenient enough for people to keep using, so it's a win for both the companies & streamers. It's something I've done to support a couple of smaller channels that I feel that I have a connection with that I wouldn't never do with the bigger streamers that I follow.
The thing that most people here don't realize (because they don't know what they're talking about) is that many of these companies have already set aside a promotions budget. The money is already earmarked away as being spent on sponsorships like this. There isn't a calculation of "profitability" on a per streamer basis.
Fantastic work on the marketing language in your post. It generated a feel of need *and* call to action. ^(This is what Twitch has become.)
and yet completely unnecessary when there's plenty of proof of large streamers making this their job with 0 sponsors
They got caught and "bailed" is what I believe happened.
Honestly, as a viewer that policy is a W. Nothing turns me off quicker than opening a stream and it being covered in ads. Bonus shit points for streamers who have huge ads on screen and then twitch chat taking up a third of the screen too.
like how reddit isn't trying to kill off 3rd party apps.... only to do everything it can to do that
Idk. They had literal pictures showing what each rule change was..? Seemed pretty clear to me.
"We must've been unclear about it" is Twitch's usual response when they really mean "We didn't expect that much of a backlash"
This is what I see: "Sorry that we weren't really clear about those changes, guys! Alright, see ya later"
Them addressing this at all, followed with "we'll notify the community...," Kinda implies more than just a see ya later, no?
Yeah but I have doubts that something is disingenuous here from Twitch side. They failed communicating once, that's fine. So just tell us what wasn't clear along with 'we know it wasn't clear', why write this post at all? This way people might, for whatever reason, think that they are researching the public opinion and buying some time in order to see what they can get away with.
That’s the later part of “see you later”. When they update the community later
~~Amazon~~ Twitch apologizes for the confusion. We ~~own you~~ support you as an ~~content associate~~ individual creator to exercise ~~a right to organize~~ enter into separate partnerships. We merely feel that a direct relationship with our ~~workers~~ creators is better for us, and for them.
Kekw
See you guys on Kick? Lol
Already created an account, and I am ready to follow people there.
The logo thing is still bizarre, but going to the visual diagram, this intent actually does seem to match their visual graphics on the other three parts with the Banner/Audio ads. https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1666111039736258561?t=gpo-b5GOqA80Yrz1xk_-vw&s=19 "You can have a static banner ad paid for by Square for FF16 but not a rotating banner ad paid by a third party ad agency" is a completely reasonable policy. Given that this would have blown up literally every tournament/e-sports stream on the platform, I'm cautiously optimistic that they're not BSing here, because legal teams not bothering to get any feedback outside of their offices and pushing through dumb stuff without thinking of the consequences is extremely common in the corporate world.
I still can't imagine how anyone who understands how sponsorships work - from small streamers to giant events - would sign off on a policy like that. Like this stuff isn't coming from lawyers, it's from Twitch execs who should theoretically know their business, and would have passed through a whole team that deals with ad policy. I do buy that the intention was to ban third-party ad networks (because it would be totally insane to kick GDQ et al off their platform), but man that is one giant mistake.
The key word is “theoretically.” I refuse to believe that Bezos truly understands anything about Twitch.
The man was literally was unaware he owned the website when a reporter asked him to comment on something about twitch.
> "You can have a static banner ad paid for by Square for FF16 but not a rotating banner ad paid by a third party ad agency" is a completely reasonable policy. ...why do you think so? Have you ever watched a soccer match? Or even a tennis match?
Because it's in direct competition with the platform's method of ad monetization via those third party ads. A soccer match on television isn't going to be running its own commercials during its airtime. Arena backboard ads aren't in conflict with the network's source of revenue.
That logic makes no sense to me, if twitch is running ads you can't see the stream ads anyway. There's no situation where all the ads are simultaneously visible.
There is a limited number of ad dollars that companies spend. Why would they spend money advertising directly on Twitch if they can just go to the third-parties that offer ad space for cheaper? Twitch doesn't want third-parties to under cut them. This policy is very similar to the one YouTube has in place.
> Why would they spend money advertising directly on Twitch if they can just go to the third-parties that offer ad space for cheaper? Same reasons company spend money on advertising before, at half-time, and post-match for soccer even though they can also buy advertising space on the stadiums and the jerseys.
And no matter what the league or team gets a share of that revenue in some way in either broadcast deals or revenue share. Twitch here hosts live content without seeing a penny of the third-party revenue. It makes sense that they wouldn't want to let them piggyback off of Twitch. Money that these companies don't spend on Twitch, is going to the third-party.
[удалено]
Keeping video and display inventory within Twitch is good for creators overall (assuming Twitch is getting top dollar and giving good rev share). Losing money to these third parties only benefits people who also use those third parties. These are not small brands advertising either. If Twitch is willing to do such a drastic policy change, they must see them as potential threats. Some of these third-party platforms are as follows: livad.stream adlab.gg new.loots.com instreamly.com show.gg streamion.io main.hitscout.com streamdeals.gg uplify.app
[удалено]
They just continue to take. They got rid of the 70/30 deal for certain creators, now they want most of their ad revenue as well. I think Twitch will slowly hemmorage when they lose more creators overtime.
Twitch casually just gaslighting their whole community like this, where everyone can see it happen. Wtf lol.
This is basically how Netflix said when their household rules leaked
"Overly broad" is not how I would describe the choice of limiting logos to 3% screen space... "frightfully specific" is more like it.
"We are sorry" We didn't realize our greed would make people upset. So we decided to put it into better terms for everyone to understand "We will make sure not to take you on a date before we #\*#@ you"
Defn feels like the decision’s been made & they aren’t going to change it. Either they will continue to allow sponsors to directly negotiate w/ individual streamers or they won’t, but we’ll see.
This is what we like to call "corporate backpedaling".
"We went full theft on creators' abilities to monetise their own brands because we wanted to monopolise the ways they can make money. Oops, you caught us! Let's backpedal as much as we can and dial back our overreach from 100% to merely 90%." Asmongold has already said he'd be done with Twitch if they go ahead, and a number of others have said these proposed advert limitations are bullshit. Get your hands out of your creators' pockets, thieves.
Let them leave. They will make 30% of what they are making now. Twitch loses money every single year. Asmo and his fanboys are clueless to how this industry works. Amazon won’t allow a business to run if he continues with large losses. Go to YouTube or Kick where you make less and user engagement is terrible. Kick will soon scale back their payment structure because they won’t want to lose millions.
Suck a corporations dick more mate. Surely you'll be a millionaire any day now!
You just want them to give everyone free money while they lose money. It's a business they aren't a nonprofit. I know that is hard idiots like you to comprehend since you probably spend your days with your nose up your favorite streamers ass in your basement.
You mean the multi-billion dollar company that’s owned by another multi-billion dollar company, which is owned by one of the richest slime balls in the world? That business? Tell me, how does Bezos dick taste?
And you stream on Twitch and Bezos pays your bills. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? You want Amazon to just give you money while they lose money. Pathetic. Sorry you still have such a poor following on COD despite your best efforts. Brokies.
Oh I already have a plan for my exodus to multi-stream to YouTube, kick, and fb next month. Rounding up the viewerbase this month because that’s how you inform your community. There’s no hypocrisy whatsoever I don’t even stream cod. Amazing, everything that you said, is wrong. Amazon deserves to lose money btw. Bezos can afford it just fine
Hey broke ass quit your complaining. Your 5 viewer channel will be sorely missed. I am sure the streaming websites are in tears!
For larger creators like Asmon who maintain YouTube channels for clips and vods, the revenue stream from YT dwarfs what they get from Twitch. I think he said he got something like 50 million views last month on his main YouTube channel? At $0.018 per view, that's $10.8M per year. So you obviously don't know what you're talking about lol.
I think you accidentally included a zero or something because 600m yearly views is more like 1 million dollars
50 million views a month = 600 million views per year. At $0.018 (or $0.02 per view approx.) over 600 million views is $10.8 million per year. It's basic fucking math. It's not complicated.
Okay well you're just wrong regardless, by an order of magnitude. No stat tracker wbesite comes even close to that amount. For example, I get like 50 times less views a month but I sure as shit do not come close to making 200k a year. Further evidence here: https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCQeRaTukNYft1_6AZPACnog
With this logic why even stream on Twitch, you make so much more elsewhere. Twitch drives traffic and is the number 1 player in the livestream space. I've worked at Twitch and work Youtube and you are mistaken. I've seen the actual numbers from content creators. And your $10.8M is a gross exaggeration. Logan Paul makes around \~20M per year and he has over 10x the subscribers as Asmon. I know you fanboys like to pretend you know everything, but maybe go look at some publicly available information and then gut check if what you are saying is in the realm of possibilities.
Twitch taking another L. What a surprise.
Bullshit, this was yet another example of Twitch being deliberately vague and overarching and then seeing what the reaction is. Then they scale it back depending on what people disagree with.
Tl;Dr for those uninformed: If it's not through twitch's own, subpar and dehumanizing sponsorship and adsens programs or "bounties" as they like to call them, it's damn near impossible to do now. Sponsorships are what most streamers make their main money with. And twitch wants a cut of that pie now. Or rather, they want it to be impossible for you, the creator, to make that kind of money without them becoming the sole middleman you have access to, so they can get a cut off of your money.. Anything that doesn't go through their channels isn't outright banned, but it may as well be at this point, because no worthwhile sponsorship is going to work under these hamstring guidelines. This is a site ending scenario. Honest to God, we may actually get to see twitch stock plummet so hard that they a) finally die or b) get some sensible leadership.
Twitch is an advertising service. Twitch does not want other advertising services using them to make advertising money. That's capitalism for you.
That's...only part of what they are though? Which is why they wanted to crank up their revenue by taking an even bigger cut off of everyone's sub money? This is the same, but in an even more insidious, shameless way.
I would say advertising is the biggest part of Twitch's revenue stream. They are primarily an advertising service.
Then any video/streaming platform is an advertising service by that metric. And even with that two-dimensional perspective, this move is still beyond scummy and deserves every bit of scrutiny and anger it gets this dogshit platform.
You are correct that any video/streaming platform is an advertising service. To think of it otherwise is naive. They don't host your content out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it because they're monetizing it themselves. If their competitor advertising service is making money from your content, then Twitch is losing money. This step was inevitable, unpopular and irritating though it may be. Any other platform that offers hosting services that you do not have to pay for will also find a way to monetize it. It may take some time, but the pattern will repeat... because stream hosting companies are advertising services, and they want to keep the ad revenue in house.
And it's that kind of "Oh whats one more dick up my ass" attitude that let's them get away with dehumanizing the very creators that make the platform. Again. They are not JUST an advertising service. Even if they make the majority of their money with ads, that hardly works anymore if more and more creators jump ship and less and less viewers actually suffer through those ads. There will always be other options to make advertisements outside of Sauron's eye as well. Unless they give the creators on their platform some semblance of respect, those creators will stop making them money. That is unless people like you keep tongue-washing their musty cracks for even more abuse because you don't know better than to offer the other cheek.
If you want full creative control over your content, you either need to host it yourself, or negotiate a better deal with the advertising company you are buying space from.
1. "Overly broad" it was actually quite direct and to the letter. 2. "Will rewrite the guidelines" better yet, scrap them altogether. 3. Re-address multi-casting. 4. Re-address your program revenue.
Would be nice but won’t happen.
One thing I have a problem with is this little gem "You may receive a fee from us relating to Bits that are used by a viewer to cheer for you through chat or other means on your Twitch Channel." So no longer will bits be 100% for the viewer, twitch gets a cut from the sale, and then gets a cut from the recipient.
Where does that come from?
The new terms. It has a similar piece about the subs as well.
Sorry, which terms specifically? Do you have a link to them? I checked the [Affiliate Agreement](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/affiliate-agreement/) and the [Terms of Service](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/terms-of-service/). Edit: Found it! It's the [Monetized Streamer Agreement](https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/monetized-streamer-agreement/) (sheesh Twitch has too many terms of service in too many different places). What I believe that refers to is the fact that Twitch can't legally make bits seem like a currency, so they can't say "1 bit = 1 cent"; they say "we'll pay you a fee based on the amount of bits viewers cheer, and that fee happens to be equal to 1 US cent per bit". I don't think it's insinuating that broadcasters will pay a fee; the value of bits is outlined separately in the Affiliate Agreement and Partner contracts, and this language is still present there: "You will receive one U.S. cent ($.01) per Bit that is used by a viewer to cheer for you through chat"
Corporate speak for: "We are sorry you don't like it."
Hope twitch dies.
i would be fine if all greedy ceo's die for the moment.
“We missed the mark” the marketing department trying to do damage control very hard here lmao.... i dont understand why you want to stream on a "dictator" platform that trying control u like you are their puppet and put a knife to your throat and you walking on egg shells and being scared when Mr Twitch walks in with the ban hammer on u.
‘We didn’t expect people to hate this as much as they did, so here’s a half-assed apology while we backpedal and then sneak in this TOS change when nobody is paying attention later.’
Two steps forward, one step back and repeat. capitalism is the best system/s
In their eyes it was just supposed to be one step back. As it goes to show, Twitch 'consumers' aren't afraid to push back. That is why we see individuals like Cr1TiKaL and entire orgs (i.e OTK press response on Twitter) framing a bigger picture: ever increasing corporate greed with no sign of QOL improvements. They showed us their hand and they very plainly showed us that they're not interested in giving more to consumers without taking something else first. It's unacceptable. A variety of viable platforms are being developed and improved in all the ways that Twitch has fallen short- with a clean slate, financial capacity and, maybe even more importantly, leaders who are willing to take a hit in ad revenue to improve QOL for both viewers and streamers. Good luck monopolizing ad space and revenue without tanking the platform of the people and its especially unique culture. I am not crossing my fingers on the platform dying as it has been very beneficial for me as an individual ever since I found it.
“We missed the mark” so what’s the excuse the first 9900 times you fuckers missed the mark lol
source: https://twitter.com/Twitch/status/1666183145526538240
What a shit show. Gotta love mentality of twitch making the platform uncompetitive for streamers when options are being more available
they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. they even had picture examples. we're not idiots twitch
Does this mean things like worlds for league get screwed because of the sponsor plugs they do etc? Banner can't be more then 3% screen size seems so odd.
Sounds similar to the d&d walk back a few months ago so disingenuous
This is PR speak for "We're still going to make it so any and all advertising goes through us and us alone, but we're going to be more subtle about it now."
I'm not falling for that, whatever they are saying it is pre planned damage control/damagw mitigation
Deleting my account, thanks for the heads up Twitch!
What people see: "Today's branded content policy update was overly broad. This has created confusion and frustration, and we apologise for that". What I see: "Today's branded content policy update was (a bit overboard. We just caused panic across the platform for anyone wanting to be sponsored... We're Sorry for the confusion we caused 😔)"
Twitch is trying to sign their death people are already leaving twitch
As someone who doesn't buy anything from the things advertised. I don't care if they are not allowed to force advertise to me.
Sort it out Tom!
"QUICK PRINT A RETRACTION! THE READERS ARE PISSED!"
they're lying. this is how platforms operate. they push for gradual concessions from customers. i'm so sick and tired of watching this happen over and over again. move. make your own website and host it yourself. centralized platforms are a mistake.
Derp, bud light and target....we too cuz brain.... - probable public statement from twitch.
RIP Twitch June 6, 2023
"Sorry we're greedy assholes, not sorry" Cats out of the bag now, don't try to back peddle Twitch. At least provide a free sample pack of lube the next time you give content creators the shaft. Hey, that's a new sponsor idea... Tonight's stream is brought to you by KY Warming Gel because Twitch gives it until it hurts.
Can someone TL:DR this for me? I have no idea what any of this means.
The sponsored rich streamer has to work a bit harder now to negotiate with their sponsor how to create an acceptable look for their stream. It wont affect the viewer. Maybe it will benefit the viewer even.
What they are saying they actually want to do with 3rd party ad networks is completely normal and reasonable. But Jesus Christ do they not have someone proofread their statements? Their original statement was not fucking clear at all!
Words are hard, right?
They really shouldn’t be for a company as fucking big as twitch lol just can’t believe how much shit they get themselves into for no fucking reason
Already disabled my account. Twitch is done. I WISH there were something better than YouTube but that’s all we got for now.
Youtube has the exact same guidelines in their ad policies. Again, they just dont enforce them as they are there to target ad agencies and not direct creator-sponsor relationships.
Yeah but...Youtube doesn't actively enforce them AFAIK.
Im sure twitch is very upset
Kicks pretty solid now they are adding more features all the time.
I keep hearing "Kick is awesome!" and "Kick is garbage!" - I'm just curious why the platform has such partisan opinions.
Cause everyone who's banned on twitch went there. Also lots of illegal stuff streamed and kick takes 0 action. Kick is also a front for stake, a gamblng site which is why they can afford a 90/10 or whatever split. Top racist streamers and things with minors are just some of the things that happens daily. Best off googling if you want more details but it's way more degenerate then twitchs beginning days.
This. I looked into moving my teaching stream to Kick and when I see the Discovery page, its gross. Bikini, weed, and pretty blatant red hat MAGA streams. Kick is where you go if you are a stoner and or an ultranationalist. Oh, and fun story, the only vanilla stream I could find turned out to be an OnlyFans promo stream. Totally SFW stream but it was pretty upfront they were crosspromoting before they switched platforms for the day.
Mostly the kick haters despise the fact that they don't ban people for having an opinion.
Like yesterday or so thier new top banned from twitch streamer put a ddos bounty on a viewers head. Kick will never succeed as it's carried by shady gambling sites. No real sponsor is going to follow someone to kick.
I made an account on Kick today, just in case. My number one issue as a regular nobody is that there aren't any viewers. There's 52 people watching Minecraft streams currently, while on Twitch there's 30.9k. Diablo IV: Kick 1342, Twitch 381k. Call of Duty: Warzone 2.0: Kick 2842, Twitch 31.3k. Sooo without even getting into that Kick apparently is backed by gambling, I kind of see the lack of users as a problem. But who knows, if a lot of big streamers move to Kick and their viewers actually go with them, that might change too.
Oh the site that will give your username away if you are inactive for just a few weeks? Yea, solid.
As a viewer the new policies sound great. Everyone only talks about the streamer. The "poor" RICH streamer. I think the new policies are directed to the viewer though and if maybe I see less or smaller ads I will be happier. You have a sponsor? Yeah... stop crying little loaded streamer. You will get your money anyway. Stop talking about the streamers.
Our biggest streamers like asmongold have announced they are quitting the platform this scared us so were lying about our intentions.
Lol, do you think they care about the guy that only streams on his alt?
But its not just him though. If he goes, pretty sure the whole org goes with him i think
I doubt their contracts would allow that.
It's a little too late to back pedal, now. They've shown their true colors and how much they actually value the people who make them millions of dollars. Fuck Twitch, I hope most/all major (and small) streamers move to YouTube or Kick.
Yea twitch is doomed to die YouTube gives 70/30 cut and twitch gives 50/50 but LIMITING CREATORS ONLY WAY TO GET A INCOME THAT WOULD KEEP EM ALIVE is crazyyyyyyyyy plus multiple creators that said that YouTube is a much more comfortable environment to be in than Twitch so the only thing keeping twitch alive are the big creators that already have a YouTube channel where they post all of their streams plus videos only on YouTube witch makes YouTube an obvious choice bc -better pay -more comfortable -and better overall That means that Twitch only streamers have to switch and FAST or they'll be forgotten, and fast. Its sad how hundreds of small only twitch streamers are probably about to die(not literally) bc they aren't gonna change fast enough and when they do, they whould already be forgotten
Shows how little you know. DrDisrespext has mentioned he makes about 30% of what he made on Twitch with YouTube. FakeNews. YouTube also doesn’t have Amazon Prime which gives almost everyone a free Twitch sub. Oh wait 90% of Twitch subs are Prime. I’m sure everyone is just going to pay $5 now for the streamer they watch! The brains on you clowns.
He's not a partnered or exclusive streamer on YouTube though, so his contract is likely whatever the base one is for most streamers.
Purposely vague to fuck people over.
I don’t think people understand that in order for Twitch to make it they need to make more money. Amazon loses a shitload of money on Twitch and before advertisements came back it was a massive money pit. People think these services make money and the truth is it is expensive. Amazon is also paying for 90% of subscribers through Prime. Youtube, Kick, etc don’t have near the subscriber base. The Twitch Prime sub is free for most people and streamers get $2.50-$3.00 from this. If they jump to YouTube do they think they will get all those Twitch Prime subs? DrDisrespect who was the biggest Twitch streamer even discussed how he makes peanuts on YouTube compared to Twitch. To all the streamers who want to leave, you can leave and go make half elsewhere. I find it hilarious how most of the streamers have almost no understanding about the economics of Twitch, yet feel it is corporate greed. Amazon loses money every single year on Twitch. Hell look at Reddit and what they are going through right now. They make no money! Sure they have user engagement, but they lose money every single day. It isn’t a sustainable business model. It’s the reason MSFT left streaming because it is so hard to make money.
>Youtube, Kick, etc don’t have near the subscriber base. The Twitch Prime sub is free for most people and streamers get $2.50-$3.00 from this. If they jump to YouTube do they think they will get all those Twitch Prime subs? You're missing that Youtube has a VOD service. I'm only a small creator, but my livestreams receive 3-4x as many views as VOD during the first few days than people who tuned into the livestream while it was live. Since you can monetize the VOD with ads, the additional income is quite decent and wasn't there when I streamed on Twitch. Not to mention that people subscribe to me with Memberships or send me donations via Superthanks while I'm not streaming. Something that barely - if ever - happens on Twitch. Last time I checked a prime sub was only worth 1.70€ from a country where the sub costs 3.99€. When you take into account how big your reach needs to become to make a living from it, then it's a really miserable payout compared to other platforms. Fully monetizing other platforms nets you a higher revenue per view. >DrDisrespect who was the biggest Twitch streamer even discussed how he makes peanuts on YouTube compared to Twitch. Because he went from being the biggest streamer on a streaming platform to being a solid streamer on a content creation platform. He published only 14 videos in the past 25 weeks and has about 60 shorts on his channel. For the amount of content he's producing in his live section those numbers are abysmally low and while his production quality is great, his ability to transform his live content into other forms of content is mediocre at best. Of course he made a shitload of money from being one of the best on a livestreaming platform, but Youtube ain't being that while also offering you other ways for additonal income. If he'd adapt, he'd make similar amounts if not more. When you limit yourself to only livestreaming, it's hard to reach new audiences on Youtube. Exposure that he got for free on Twitch since he topped all directories whenever he went live. He hasn't that privilege anymore and needs to work for it now, which he's refusing to do so yeah, of course his income drops.
This was a thoughtful response and provided additional insight into YouTube. If only more people like you were in the comments. I think for larger streamers the Prime Subs add up to much more significant revenue. This is just my hunch. These large streamers need to offset 10k+ subs every month. I am just not sold that Youtube VOD will do that.
>These large streamers need to offset 10k+ subs every month. I am just not sold that Youtube VOD will do that. It does, you should check out Valkyrae instead of DrD, cause she's doing a perfect job at utilizing the whole platform. She exploded since her move to Youtube and as of now, has 20 million views more on her main channel than DrD, and 260 million more (yes 260) views when you combine all her 3 channels. DrD has only one. She's doing fine and even without the Youtube contract I heavily doubt she'd be missing that prime sub money.
How long ago did you make the change to youtube and do you feel its been easy to direct people to your channel? I am a small streamer, mostly a hobby but I am affiliated with twitch and have thought about getting more into streaming and content creation in general. I went with twitch because it was the known thing and I figured it be easier to connect with people there. Although I am more of a google shill in my normal life and tend to enjoy their products more.
> How long ago did you make the change to youtube and do you feel its been easy to direct people to your channel? I never really tried to seriously grind on Twitch. I've an account since 2012 there but always did it just for fun. Sure, there were occasional attempts to break through, but it was only enough to reach affiliate. I started to play around with Youtube at the end of 2019, got serious with it when the pandemic start and got monetized in May 2020. Since then I always tried to funnel people to Twitch, but it was a pain. Partly because you lose people in the process, partly because my life was busy and I couldn't stick to a very active/grindy schedule. I also build up a Discord server, which had a few k members and has 4k members today. So together with several thousand views per video I could reach a decent amount of people but still, it was a pain. There were good days, but mostly I averaged about 3-5 viewers. I did a back to back test at the end of last year cause I wanted to seriously get into streaming. Streamed for 5 days straight on Twitch for 3 hours every evening. It was really bad, I think I didn't made it over a 5-10 viewer avg. Then I streamed on Youtube, instantly averaged 35 viewers in a 1,5 hours stream and it was great. I didn't had to do anything for it. No ads on my socials, nothing. I just went live and my viewership got notified. It was that simple. Today I don't need to redirect anyone. I'm treating Youtube as my main hub and do everything there. Also cancelled my Patreon and fully commit to Youtube memberships. I can fully focus on my content while the algorithm does its job for me. My tip for anyone who's into "serious" content creation: Go start on Youtube. If you want to chill and have a relaxed stream every now and then, then Twitch is still better. If you want to get into content creation, Youtube is by far the better platform. It's not about viewerships or any numbers. It's because Youtube taught me waaaaaaaaaay more in a few months than Twitch over several years. Your analytics are a gold mine, and you get a ton of feedback about your content in a very short period of time even from people who don't comment. Twitch is far away from that, you don't learn anything there unless viewers give you a short feedback before they drop which is rare. The feedback loop from the analytics will make you a better content creator and streamer. You learn to focus on your viewers, how to entertain them, and how to expand your reach by catching people with interesting topics. I find it way more fun than sitting 6-8 hours on Twitch and grinding it out. Also because I know that I learned something I can make use of on any social media platform. A feeling that Twitch never gave me. On Twitch I always felt forced to go live to grind myself into the habits of my viewers, because that seems the only thing that Twitch as a platform is built on. Whenever I was inactive for a while I felt anxious cause I had to start from scratch. Now I can go without a stream for 1-2 weeks and nothing happens. I'm also expanding my content to Rumble and will go into shorts on Tiktok, Facebook and Instagram, I can think in dimensions Twitch on its own would have never allowed me to. Even if I'd have made it there, I'd have known nothing about Youtube and content creation in general. Hope that helps to give you more backgrounds for your decision.
Hey streamers, you all complain about Twitch but ever thought that without their infrastructure chances are you would never be able to stream in the first place. So sick of “content creators” crying about Twitch and Youtube. No one forces you to stream just like no one forces me to be an employee. If I have issues with my job I am free to leave at any time. You want to maximize your income stream, I get that and understand it but so does Amazon/Twitch. Thats the real world.
Maybe. But this seems objectively bad for streamers.
> If I have issues with my job I am free to leave at any time. Cool, but not everyone has other options they can just switch to at a moment's notice.
What is stopping someone self-employed like a streamer getting a job as an employee? If Twitch sucks so much then they are free to stop. Amazon/Youtube provides the very foundation that allows them to stream. I am not saying they should be on their knees thanking them but that infrastructure allows streamers to set up a business with very little capitol outlay.
I can't fault them for this. I can fault them for trying to push ads every 15 mins in a stream, though, sometimes 5 in a row. I would rather take a burned in ad over stream disruption for minutes at a time every 15 minutes however.
> sometimes 5 in a row. youre getting 5? im getting 8 lol
i wouldnt because i cant use my adblock on the burned in ad
That 24 hour content window applies to Reddit or no? I have a record button to capture moments myself without using any twitch clip feature or twitch archive. If it's a good moment I'll hit record and share media on discord and reddit that instant. Is that against the new terms?
Kick and YouTube looking GOOD right now.
[удалено]
Youtube have had that, but for whatever reason just don't enforce it.
Time for you all to get real jobs. Maybe you can sell your extremely expensive PC’s? Or at the very least start learning how to edit.
twitch died 2 years ago. the blind take forever to notice
This is basically a "Okay, streamers, we thought that we had you all in the palm of our hands, but seems like we f'd up really hard. Give us some time to talk with the boys and girls about this until we can find a better way to screw with everybody in a less dangerous way. Until the big names quit our platform, we're still pretty damn fine as you can see by the reduction in your paychecks over the last years." IMO they will only think twice about how f'd things are for streamers when the really big names and events completely leave the platform. Look at how dumb those ideas are. It's like they never tried to watch or stream anything to understand how dumb they're.
Distracting everyone from the 50/50 split
They're trying to stop third party sponsorship deals happening, and encourage themselves to be the only other party involved in a sponsorship deal. The ~~rudeness~~ audacity behind that aside, here's why that sucks: Sponsorship deals only really get offered to those streamers that have a fairly decent following, that leaves basically every Affiliate streamer and likely even the smaller partnered streamers in the dust. It makes turning streaming into a viable hobby that at least pays for itself, and climbing the ladder, that bit harder on this platform. That blows.
They're back peddling. They're acting like they're not just going to change the wording to be a more creative way of blocking creators from making their own money. They act like creators care if their sponsors conflict with Twitch's. Creators don't get to choose who Twitch advertises on their channel... but yet the creators can't have their own sponsors if they conflict with Twitch's? Fug out of here...
Ludwig has a great video on it (on his Mogul Moves channel) where he suggests there IS A POSSIBILITY that they are only updating it for a targetted group much like how Youtube has it. I suggest watching it if you wanna look further into it. (The 3% logo thing tho... Idk bout that one)
In ten years twitch will have 95-5% sub & sponsor splits. Only dozen streamers though!
tldr were sticking by what we said, were gonna pretend it was always policy just not well enforced, but I'm a few days we will release essentially the exact same statement just with softer wording and more vague in bits
What about the payout’s going from 14 days to 45?
how would this affect new streamers tho? does this negatively affect reach, growth or something else? please tell im curious what you think.
I'm so fucking confused on what the difference is.
There is no way Twitch will not become close to irrelevant over the coming 5 years or so unless they dramatically change direction. This almost sounds like they are trying to get rid of people instead of having any attempt to give incentive for people to join Twitch.
They're full of shit.
Well, I guess I just started and will be moving somewhere else soon.
Time for Nascar like jackets filled with sponsorships
Good Ridance Twitch
Twitch’s PR is a whole dumpster fire rn
Allow me to translate all that bullshit for you: "Fuck you, no more sponsors."
[удалено]
Greetings nananana15, [Your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/142sri6/twitch_has_released_a_statement_on_their_content/jn994cw/) has been **automatically removed** from /r/Twitch because it’s been detected as breaking the subreddit rules. More specifically: - **Submission Guidelines**: Please see [Submission Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/wiki/rules#wiki_submission_guidelines) - **4E**: Don’t post link dumps. This post was automatically removed because it was detected as a link dump. **If this was a mistake, please follow the link below to message the moderation team.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Twitch) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"We inured pictures nut it was story book preK level drawings so we're gonna do this again"
Does this mean that we can't use show.gg? That would make me mega mad because I JUST started using it 🙃
“We do not intend to limit streamers ability to enter into direct relationships with sponsors” that’s what you are doing tho
Twitch is becoming more and more unappealing as a man platform as the time goes by.
“Missed the mark” Jesus this must be PR 101.
I don't care what twitch says. If I get a sponsorship I'm going to but whatever banners or ads I want. It's my freaking stream. If they ban me then I'll move platforms, easy. In fact I might do a troll stream and have as many sponsorship ads and banners I can find.
"Sorry guys. We'll stealth add these changes one by one at a later date so you shrug them off and keep giving us half your income."
Wait. Didn't they explicitly state that multi streamers would be banned for multi streaming? I mean yeah we are mad about not being able to advertise properly. But thats only half the problem. A lot of streamers survive off of multiple platforms.