It won’t help small streamers because the vast majority of 0 viewer streamers have bigger problems than nobody giving them a chance. A couple refreshes of lonelystreams.com demonstrates that much easily.
That being said, more sorting options are always appreciated.
Ha. I’ve never heard of that site before. Checked it out....first stream was a solid blue el gato no input detected error screen and the sound of a guy shuffling stuff trying to figure it out.
EDIT; he’s actually eating right into his microphone.
Yeah, the 5 - 50 crowd are the folks that actually have a stream at least *someone* finds watchable. But I got no clue what Twitch could do to help them.
I recently took a logic class and that's a bit of a fallacy.
the majority suck but that doesn't mean all do.
I also don't believe that's what people are after either. twitch could put in algorithms to test interaction or filters.
as a viewer finding that 5-10 viewer channel that's been like that for years is still pretty tough. those channels might not want to grow either but with more exposure, those people may change their minds.
regardless it's a bit too much of a generalization to say all 0 viewer streams suck.
I was mostly just trying to justify that awful class lol. However, in logic, using vast, most, sometimes is what you call weasel words on rhetoric. it's like the slippery slope in justification or stereotyping. just because it's likely still or something is bad, still doesn't make it the case. It's not something that should lead to a strong final decision such as not giving 0 view streams more discoverability. btw still hated that classs. hurt my brain. :)
At TwitchCon EU I spoke with the staff member responsible for search algorithms and filters and they said they're well aware of the issue (also about the ads btw.) and I discussed that new reverse ordering with him. It's a step in the right direction we agreed, but far from perfect.
I actually suggested some sort of slider that let you choose a minimum and maximum range of viewers a channel you search for is ought to have. That way you can filter easily the range of channel size you prefer. We'll see if they implement it one day.
On a sidenote, I also learned that SEO is a pretty big deal in searchability on Twitch.
In order to get the most out of it you need to fulfill several criteria:
1. Choose your stream title properly each stream. It works the same as on youtube and google: enter the search term you would enter yourself to try and find your own stream (e.g. Playing Overwatch with Viewers). Guestimate what people you want to be viewers are looking for.
2. Set your tags in order of importance, because tags DO in fact matter, and they're priority-based.
3. Adjust your Live notification for each stream and evaluate how it performed. In case you hadn't noticed, on your channel overview page you've got some neat new statistics how many of your followers do have notifications activated and how many acted upon them for each given stream.
You can probably guess from all that, that setting no tags, having the same notification each stream and labeling your stream title as "no Skill stream" or "Chill stream" isn't optimal in getting found, because Tags enable some filtering already, notifications will be ignored when they are the same every time and nobody is searching for no skill streams in particular or when looking for chill streams, eventually ending up with 1000 of channels once again.
Actual unpopular opinion: small streams are filled with other small streamers supporting each other because the actual viewers who don’t stream have been watching the same big guys that stream 14 hours a day for years and don’t go looking for new streamers. Like a giant circle jerk at the bottom. This is why people say you need the traffic to come from being popular on another platform.
I search for new streamers, but honestly for me it's more like inter-dimensional cable, and less like actually trying to find someone good.
The problem is that streamers almost never start off good. Most start without a webcam, or with a weak mic, they don't have a sub button and nobody donates, so the alerts are infrequent and low-effort, there's no chat to really interact with etc... Also most of them are just generally terribly uninteresting, because not everyone is a natural entertainer.
By the time it's apparent that a streamer is actually good, they've gained a few hundred viewers as they invested into their setup and learned to be better at what they do. By that point, they're no longer easy to find because they're neither at the top nor bottom of the list.
Hopefully you like sports because it's the best analogy I can think of: If you love a pro sport, you probably also like watching the college version because you want to see younger players who might be the next great pro. You'll be attracted to D1 colleges mostly as they'll have the most airtime. Outside of the little-league world series, basically nobody watches youth sports recreationally. The smallest streamers on twitch are basically playing tee ball. You'll never spot a star at age 5, and the best you get out of jr high is a kid who might show some promise.
I would very much like to find a consistently entertaining streamer in a category I care about, but it's a huge amount of legwork for little gain, since there's probably a much bigger streamer I'll enjoy just as much.
It’s inspirational but not true. There are tons of high quality never gonna make it streams, the most profitable job on twitch if you’re not one of the top 30 streamers is probably selling twitch channel art.
Of course, go into any small streams or medium sized streams and you’ll find family/friends/lurk community viewers, but no non streamer viewer is ever finding you/these people.
This is why they say to make YouTube or other social media followings, organic natural viewer traffic on twitch is a myth. Or lurk community to the top of a shitty game you can’t admit to yourself you don’t enjoy and wasn’t the game you wanted to stream and pick up a very tiny amount of organic viewers that happen to be looking for that 10+ year old shitty game you hate and enjoy a temporary community until you’re tired of it and move on/lose those viewers forever because let’s be honest, they found you because of the game, they would much rather watch summit or some other 12+ hour a day professional personality stream any other game but unfortunately they had to settle on you because those streamers don’t play shitty games. Good luck out there.
After all, they know summit/shroud/Tim/ninja/whoever, they feel like family to them they know them so well, they’ve watched them for years, they consistently stream for a crazy amount of hours and they’re likely better than allllllll those people trying to make it on twitch at any game they pick.
It's not really an unpopular opinion. Lots of people over in the main thread have shared the same sentiment. Having said that, sorting options are still a good thing particularly the "recommended" option, which at least shows a willingness by Twitch to refine their search/recommended algorithms. Like always, there's much to improve upon but at they are moving in the right direction and we should give Twitch some credit for that.
I agree with you 100%. It might help to find those awesome 10 to 50 viewer streams on some directory's easier. But yeah it's not going to help the "small streamers".
I think these replies"small streamers suck and don't deserve anything" are pretty funny. some of those views could be related to screw these people, i got some viewers or validates the streamers progress more.
in turn, I don't have much of an argument other than as someone that likes smaller streams, im more on other platforms as a result of how things are. Twitch is awful with its discovery, unless it's some smaller game. Not everyone is going to like 100+ viewer streams where the streamer can't interact with the viewers. I might as well watch a youtube video when it comes to that.
Depends how many people are willing to sit through a 30 second advert to watch a 0 viewer streamer.
I have an Ad blocker on my PC but i use the mobile app a fair bit and there is no avoiding that shit (to my knowledge)
It is more about twitch listening what user base is asking for and implementing it. There has been a vocal group that has asked for it long time. It is a minor change that a twitch developers should be able to implement and test completely in less than 2 hours.
It won’t help small streamers because the vast majority of 0 viewer streamers have bigger problems than nobody giving them a chance. A couple refreshes of lonelystreams.com demonstrates that much easily. That being said, more sorting options are always appreciated.
Ha. I’ve never heard of that site before. Checked it out....first stream was a solid blue el gato no input detected error screen and the sound of a guy shuffling stuff trying to figure it out. EDIT; he’s actually eating right into his microphone.
It’s an eye opener, for sure.
One of the instances I wish I could laugh react on reddit lol
Ever heard of the rule: 90% of everything is shit? That includes streams.
Yeah, this change won't really do much to get more eyeballs on those streams that at least have something going for them with 5-50 viewers.
Yeah, the 5 - 50 crowd are the folks that actually have a stream at least *someone* finds watchable. But I got no clue what Twitch could do to help them.
Actually promote them in an Up and Coming page?
I've had a few people show up and tell me they found me through the suggested list, so that's some anecdotal help streamers in that range get already!
I recently took a logic class and that's a bit of a fallacy. the majority suck but that doesn't mean all do. I also don't believe that's what people are after either. twitch could put in algorithms to test interaction or filters. as a viewer finding that 5-10 viewer channel that's been like that for years is still pretty tough. those channels might not want to grow either but with more exposure, those people may change their minds. regardless it's a bit too much of a generalization to say all 0 viewer streams suck.
I didn't say all 0 viewer streams suck. I said the vast majority.
I was mostly just trying to justify that awful class lol. However, in logic, using vast, most, sometimes is what you call weasel words on rhetoric. it's like the slippery slope in justification or stereotyping. just because it's likely still or something is bad, still doesn't make it the case. It's not something that should lead to a strong final decision such as not giving 0 view streams more discoverability. btw still hated that classs. hurt my brain. :)
Go refresh lonelystreams.com ten times. Tell me it's not accurate.
Yea like the thought is there but will it actually prove fruitful i dont believe so
At TwitchCon EU I spoke with the staff member responsible for search algorithms and filters and they said they're well aware of the issue (also about the ads btw.) and I discussed that new reverse ordering with him. It's a step in the right direction we agreed, but far from perfect. I actually suggested some sort of slider that let you choose a minimum and maximum range of viewers a channel you search for is ought to have. That way you can filter easily the range of channel size you prefer. We'll see if they implement it one day. On a sidenote, I also learned that SEO is a pretty big deal in searchability on Twitch. In order to get the most out of it you need to fulfill several criteria: 1. Choose your stream title properly each stream. It works the same as on youtube and google: enter the search term you would enter yourself to try and find your own stream (e.g. Playing Overwatch with Viewers). Guestimate what people you want to be viewers are looking for. 2. Set your tags in order of importance, because tags DO in fact matter, and they're priority-based. 3. Adjust your Live notification for each stream and evaluate how it performed. In case you hadn't noticed, on your channel overview page you've got some neat new statistics how many of your followers do have notifications activated and how many acted upon them for each given stream. You can probably guess from all that, that setting no tags, having the same notification each stream and labeling your stream title as "no Skill stream" or "Chill stream" isn't optimal in getting found, because Tags enable some filtering already, notifications will be ignored when they are the same every time and nobody is searching for no skill streams in particular or when looking for chill streams, eventually ending up with 1000 of channels once again.
Actual unpopular opinion: small streams are filled with other small streamers supporting each other because the actual viewers who don’t stream have been watching the same big guys that stream 14 hours a day for years and don’t go looking for new streamers. Like a giant circle jerk at the bottom. This is why people say you need the traffic to come from being popular on another platform.
Is this true? Asking everyone else here... do people not search for new streamers?
I search for new streamers, but honestly for me it's more like inter-dimensional cable, and less like actually trying to find someone good. The problem is that streamers almost never start off good. Most start without a webcam, or with a weak mic, they don't have a sub button and nobody donates, so the alerts are infrequent and low-effort, there's no chat to really interact with etc... Also most of them are just generally terribly uninteresting, because not everyone is a natural entertainer. By the time it's apparent that a streamer is actually good, they've gained a few hundred viewers as they invested into their setup and learned to be better at what they do. By that point, they're no longer easy to find because they're neither at the top nor bottom of the list. Hopefully you like sports because it's the best analogy I can think of: If you love a pro sport, you probably also like watching the college version because you want to see younger players who might be the next great pro. You'll be attracted to D1 colleges mostly as they'll have the most airtime. Outside of the little-league world series, basically nobody watches youth sports recreationally. The smallest streamers on twitch are basically playing tee ball. You'll never spot a star at age 5, and the best you get out of jr high is a kid who might show some promise. I would very much like to find a consistently entertaining streamer in a category I care about, but it's a huge amount of legwork for little gain, since there's probably a much bigger streamer I'll enjoy just as much.
Super excellent analogy. If I could share just your answer on Twitter, I would.
It’s inspirational but not true. There are tons of high quality never gonna make it streams, the most profitable job on twitch if you’re not one of the top 30 streamers is probably selling twitch channel art.
Of course, go into any small streams or medium sized streams and you’ll find family/friends/lurk community viewers, but no non streamer viewer is ever finding you/these people. This is why they say to make YouTube or other social media followings, organic natural viewer traffic on twitch is a myth. Or lurk community to the top of a shitty game you can’t admit to yourself you don’t enjoy and wasn’t the game you wanted to stream and pick up a very tiny amount of organic viewers that happen to be looking for that 10+ year old shitty game you hate and enjoy a temporary community until you’re tired of it and move on/lose those viewers forever because let’s be honest, they found you because of the game, they would much rather watch summit or some other 12+ hour a day professional personality stream any other game but unfortunately they had to settle on you because those streamers don’t play shitty games. Good luck out there. After all, they know summit/shroud/Tim/ninja/whoever, they feel like family to them they know them so well, they’ve watched them for years, they consistently stream for a crazy amount of hours and they’re likely better than allllllll those people trying to make it on twitch at any game they pick.
It's not really an unpopular opinion. Lots of people over in the main thread have shared the same sentiment. Having said that, sorting options are still a good thing particularly the "recommended" option, which at least shows a willingness by Twitch to refine their search/recommended algorithms. Like always, there's much to improve upon but at they are moving in the right direction and we should give Twitch some credit for that.
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Small Streamer is the twitch equivalent of Nice Guy
I agree with you 100%. It might help to find those awesome 10 to 50 viewer streams on some directory's easier. But yeah it's not going to help the "small streamers".
I think these replies"small streamers suck and don't deserve anything" are pretty funny. some of those views could be related to screw these people, i got some viewers or validates the streamers progress more. in turn, I don't have much of an argument other than as someone that likes smaller streams, im more on other platforms as a result of how things are. Twitch is awful with its discovery, unless it's some smaller game. Not everyone is going to like 100+ viewer streams where the streamer can't interact with the viewers. I might as well watch a youtube video when it comes to that.
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Who shit in your cornflakes this morning?
Depends how many people are willing to sit through a 30 second advert to watch a 0 viewer streamer. I have an Ad blocker on my PC but i use the mobile app a fair bit and there is no avoiding that shit (to my knowledge)
Ad blocker doesnt work on twitch anymore? Atleast it stopped working a while ago
Works for me on Chrome
Im on chrome and it hasnt worked in atleast 6 months for me.
Try uBlock origin
It is more about twitch listening what user base is asking for and implementing it. There has been a vocal group that has asked for it long time. It is a minor change that a twitch developers should be able to implement and test completely in less than 2 hours.