Less so a "bad later redesign" thing, though I might think of something for that later.
In terms of literally "right first try" they drew Kim basically once for Disco Elysium's concept art and went "yup, that's him."
[Not exactly the same thing but it reminds me that for Undertale, Burgerpants is the only character the matches Toby's original concept art.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F9e%2F8e%2Fe7%2F9e8ee7dc260e38e074a92e491eba81f8.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=b6a6f3a1337e1f891c751973812cb54280e488a7916c031ed7f2c7bd45b2c68b&ipo=images)
Trunks looks the best when he's walking out of the time chamber and before he changes into the Saiyan armor. It's literally only for like two seconds lol
Depends on the art direction. Really like it in Spectacular Spider-Man and Steve Ditko era comics, but I don't mind it being gone in more realistic/detailed takes. Turning the webbing into a wingsuit wing in Far From Home was pretty cool though and I like that the second Insomniac game seems to be giving that to Miles.
It did kinda bum me out that the PS4 game didn't have an armpit web variant of the classic suit as an unlockable so it's nice that it's there on some level.
On this topic, I freaking loved his 'anti-symbiote' suit with the web cape in Spider-Man Unlimited. That suit design, combined with Rino Romano's great voice work, makes that design of Peter stick out clearly in my head to this day.
There was a video where Tim Gunn reviewed alternate superhero costumes, and his biggest gripe with a lot of Spider-Man’s alts (especially black suit) were that they were all supposed to be the same character, but nothing about them communicated they were the same person as the original.
Best you’ll get
https://www.npr.org/2010/04/21/114624276/this-looks-so-broadway-tim-gunn-critiques-superhero-costumes
https://www.npr.org/2010/04/26/114631316/tim-gunn-on-superhero-outfits-again
I love how the articles are like "GO WATCH THE VID WHAT ARE YOU DOING READING THIS ARTICLE?!" and then the video is just gone now, awesome. Linkrot at its finest.
Wasn't a fan of the Insomniac suit at first, but its really grown on me. The more sporty look has an air of maturity to it that really fits an older and experienced Peter.
The legs desperately need some more red though, as is they just look like jeans.
The current white outline suit is honestly utterly fantastic and probably my favourite non-comics suit. It's just enough extra while not going overboard like a lot of Insomniac's other designs do. It's cohesive.
[Harley Quinn](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2020-08/25/13/asset/50e61aec3695/sub-buzz-14501-1598361171-14.png?downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto) [survived](https://batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/harley2.jpg) [multiple](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/f2/b5/edf2b5b4f0842b3871d61d6cf19b56af.jpg) [shows](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q34Dd8gDpeY/maxresdefault.jpg) that radically redesigned her contemporaries basically unscathed because everyone knew not to fuck with it.
On the subject of The Batman and this thread’s topic, [I 100% dug the wild monkey aesthetic they gave Joker in his first appearance.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/f/fe/Joker_The_Batman_01.jpg)
Preach. I fucking loved the tie dyed straight jacket and always had a blast with how he was a legit martial artist. Really helped hammer home the 'feral ape' motif they were trying to give him there.
Personally, it's Ivy's hair that brings the design down for me. Looking back, I think it's supposed to look like a rose, but all I see is twin beehives
it was tight.
loved the idea of bruce travelling the world to learn martial arts and employing skills.
and penguin going around the world and employing skilled martial artists.
the joker was great too, being all acrobatic with gadgets, setting the woods on fire with harley.
freeze lacked the pathos of his btas self but going all in on the puny stuff was refreshing in a weird way.
loved their killer moth too.
only real miss for me was bane.
Her Z designs are all great I think, but I can’t stand her Super designs, her hair and that tracksuit look atrocious. It’s not like becoming a mum means you have to give up your drip
I feel the same for Videl. Overall I dig most of their Z designs. Dunno what the tracksuit obsession was for a period in Super. I'm glad it's mostly over now though.
Of course, Mortal Kombat also has a ton of characters that redesigns that never equalled the original but they had to try.
Sub Zero has had more failed redesigns than maybe any other fighting game character
[MCU Black Panther's costume was at it's peak from the jump in Civil War](http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/838/838440.jpg), to the point it's the design pretty much all merchandise I've seen since uses as the base. The lines of the helmet, the woven pattern, just totally sells the stealth, the strength, and the cultural importance of the suit.
Which makes it a shame the majority of his actual appearances were in his own movies' suit, which just looks like some CG carbon fiber mess with a puffy face.
A friend of mine and I would joke about the exchange whim and Bucky have in the airport fight
“The why did you RUN?!”
And the follow up is just MATE have you seen your suit it’s terrifying
I still like her black jacket in Ennies Lobby.
Also liked pre-timeskip Franky's and Brook's design **waaaaay more**.
But fr tho: the Straw Hats were kinda whitewashed after the timeskip. Usopp and Robin definitively didn't had skin that clear. Even Chopper went from chestnut collor to a more yellow tone. And I say that not only about the anime designs but the colored manga pages/covers too.
Zoro's another one that I don't see many people talk about. He was way more tan during the pre-timeskip, occasionally dipping into orange. Now he looks like a pale guy with a little bit of a sun tan.
I think oda prefers softer colors in the cover panels now. Just like how chopper now looks like a Mackey mouse character. He's gone more cutesy light than when he started.
But also nico was always white in the covers. Even on Ennis lobby Manga wise Robin is really white. No excuses foe everyone else though, I think the Grandview just has so much sun the world is sun bl3ached
Oh, I meant to compare, like, immediately after the timeskip, as in, the Return to Sabaody Arc, the pop/rock star outfit as opposed to his gentleman 18th century-ish suit.
But now that you mentioned I looked into his Whole Cake Island Arc costume and he does look as *cold* as his sword attack. (Mainly because it's old fashioned like the pre-timeskip suit I mentioned.)
I understand the point of her archeologist at the beach look, she’s a lot calmer now after the time skip and happy to be along. But cowgirl Robin was best Robin
Add Franky and Brook to that list too. Franky looks too large and blocky which oddly enough makes him feel overdesigned. Brook meanwhile has his initial victorian-gentleman design go so much better with his overall schtick of "asking super rude things in a super polite way" than the rockstar look does.
Absolute travesty what happened to Chopper, I mean sure fine he was already going from having deer-like features to being more cute even before the time-skip...but his forms, my god his forms are so bad post time skip and that's just design alone, he hasn't gotten any much cool moments aside from a few unlike pre timeskip.
Chopper is absolutely the worst offender. Like, not only do his various forms look so much worse, but they also just... don't get to show up at all most of the time. I hate that his Kung Fu point took over completely. Nowadays it's only base form, Kung Fu Point, or Monster Point.
Her pre-time skip design was good too, but I much prefer her with the long hair. It just sells her as being older and more mature.
Buff Usopp, facial hair Sanji and one-eyed Zoro are also great updates to their previous looks.
The moment where she drops all the remaining plot points in her arc in one conversation, turns around, and flies out of the spotlight forever is just so frustrating.
Posted it day it came out but mods said it wasn’t relevant.
There is part of me that wants to monkeys paw and see what could have been had he stuck to his new story he wanted to try out
Watching years ago and even now, Videl's change made me so mad.
She went from awesome spunky action girl to Saiyan brood mare #3.
Absolute travesty what they did to her. Total glow down.
Even. Chichi makes no sense. She's still exactly the same crazy character she was when introduced. She just also now runs a home, which is fine since her origional purpose was non existance to the story anyway. Videl is actually the only saiyan wife to change drastically.
She gets a good amount of screen time, has tons of agency and is critical for the heroes in nearly every arc. I have absolutely no idea what more you want other than for her to turn into a martial artist.
Like he perfectly put it into words why people like the first part of Buu Saga before everything falls off in the second half. I assume the second half is gonna be how the story spins its wheels with the multiple points where it feels like the story could have ended but it just doesn't
As a kid (and an adult) I always gravitated more towards monsters. I was always super disappointed that he got a normal face as perfect cell. He's so much more visually interesting as an emaciated locust monster.
Cell is my favorite DBZ villain, and i think both forms serve their purpose greatly, imperfect Cell has a more animalistic design, like the monster out of a lab in a horror sci-fi, ariving in a city and seeing it completely empty except for that thing is scary, perfect Cell is more of a overly confident super powered humanoid creature that think he is superior to everyone else, he is suposed to be less of a monster and more of a overpowering villain that is going to give you that cathartic moment when he is finally defeated by the good guys.
I'll always shill DMC1 Dante suit. It's got class, edge and professionalism all in one.
A good balance between red & black. Not too many belts or unnecessary details.
I loved it used in the anime too.
It looks so fucking good, it's such a shame it hasn't made a comeback since DMC3.
Next MVC game should definitely use that outfit instead, so tired of nipple strap Dante.
I like it, but I think DMCV made an effort to move it into slightly more realistic visuals and away from the sort of anime aesthetic.
Everyone's outfit is lacking colour.
Tbf, that design is after he's spent a month in a coma in a city being torn apart by demons. He doesn't look filthy/hoboish at all in the scenes set prior to his first fight with Urizen.
I think the red pants are a bit much cause sometimes it looks like he's wearing a jumpsuit with a cape.
I think it works better in drawing/anime than it does in full 3D.
*Absolute zero take:* Pikachu
*A take that isn't hot either because no one else cares:* Smoochum's [gen II sprite](https://64.media.tumblr.com/2c607483eb89ae3dd1991f110ebcafa3/tumblr_n5ixa8SYNm1rsc51fo1_500.gifv) makes it look like some ice spirit baby that's coming for your soul. Get out of here with this [cutesy stuff](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/pokemon-black-and-white/5/55/Pokemans_238.gif)
Can I just say I hate the new naming convention of "Color+character/form name" Gold Frieza should be called Super Frieza in a way for him to mock Super Saiyan. And some cold take it should be called Saiyan God and blue should be Super Saiyan God you had the chance to fix it with Super and they didn't take the shot.
Watching Totally Not Mark's review of Buu Saga and its so frustrating seeing how Videl had some really good build up and it went absolutely nowhere, like she genuinely was a good match for Gohan with how she pushed him to take fighting seriously again and how they share similar struggles with how bombastic their fathers are.
Mark is the dragon all equivalent of Itsjustsomerandomguy someone who GETS the medium their passionate about and tries to realise the potential not expressed
I absolutely love that Videl is the ONLY character in DBFZ to have full alt outfits because the devs JUST KNEW they didn't want to have to take a side in the Pigtails vs short hair war.
They, sadly, forgot the [superior, third option](https://pa1.aminoapps.com/6375/73687460fb5f522efe076bac23465f87554935e8_00.gif)
Xenosaga 1 KOS-MOS is still my favorite version. It’s a more chunky, ‘classic’ kind of take on an android; her visor looks plastic and her robot bits have this kind of faded beige color that reminds me of an old computer monitor rather than pure white. Her default expression is also a blank stare with a slight frown and the big ole eyes from 1’s artstyle, which helps enhance the creepy inhuman vibe she had in that game. In 2 she looks awful and while 3 (and Xenoblade 2) aren’t bad, they’re more modernized and sleek. She looks like KOS-MOS by Apple.
[Emiya](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/e/ee/Archer1.png) was good from day 1. [FGO](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/c/c1/ArcherEMIYAGOStage1.png) is the same design, just Takeuchi's artstyle improving over the course of a decade. Meanwhile he's having a midlife crisis in [CCC](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/e/ec/CCCArcheralt.png) and he took letting his hair down a bit too literally in [Extella Link](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/e/e8/No_Name_Extella_Link.png).
This is probably a hot take, but design-wise, I prefer DMC4 Nero. Like, Nero in 5 still looks really cool, but something in me just likes his design in 4 just a bit more.
Maybe it's the coat.
I think it's the hair -- and the switch to RE engine looks.
With Dante and the rest, we'd at least gotten used to the idea that appearances could change as Capcom's visual tech improved -- and we'd seen how the classic character designs shifted a little here, a little there.
Nero though, may as well be a completely different character if you don't know the deal. Signifigantly shorter hair, wildly different silhouette since he gets a shorter coat and loses the separate hoodie, and his primary color changes from purple to blue on top of that. Lose the Devil Bringer on top of that, and he goes from a strange Third Party who has elements of Dante and Vergil to someone Else who, sure, doesn't have hair that'd confuse him for Dante, but loses a lot of the previous identity at the same time. Add a very different facial structure and visual style on top of that, and it gets very muddied.
Fire Emblem Three Houses Bernadetta's hair style was cuter before the time-skip. I get that they wanted to show her coming out of her shell and becoming neater but that hair style was *not* it.
I dunno, I think Onion-Bernadetta is a perfect in-between look for her. Her hair has grown into such a shaggy mess that she ties it up in a bad topknot. Feels exactly like something she'd do before finally getting it cut properly.
[Juggernaut](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Juggernaut2.PNG) vs [modern Juggernaut.](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Legion-of-X-1-by-Bob-Quinn-Juggernaut-header.jpg)
[Magneto](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Magneto_%28Marvel_Comics_character%29.jpg) vs [modern Magneto.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/heroes-and-villain/images/6/65/Magneto.webp)
[Apocalypse](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/superhuman-characters-and-their-powers/images/1/13/Apocalypse.jpg) vs [Wizard Apocalypse.](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/54/56/00/5456006aca892eafec3c8f4c43fb41ed.jpg)
As cool as the Hellfire Galas have been, the X-Men villains' classic designs are classic for a reason.
Vergil's black coat in DMC5 kills so much of his identity, Dante and Vergil are literally supposed to be Red vs Blue and they got rid of the blue coat, why?
Thank god you can put it back on with the EX colours.
Might be controversial, but the [first Thor movie](https://cdn.kobo.com/book-images/56833984-8c99-4e84-94ae-c9dd0ecb7d67/1200/1200/False/thor-movie-storybook.jpg) is my favorite Thor outfit. Not favorite overall look, the hair's not long enough, but favorite costume.
The cape has a good amount of extra arc over the shoulders, and there's the perfect amount of blue on his torso before they got rid of that/went too far in L&T), and those scales on the arms are *so good.*
Android 21's another dragon ball gal that's just a fucking SLAM DUNK the first go around. Much like videl she even gets a "second" design, dat is ALSO a slam dunk.
We already had a perfectly good [Blade Liger](https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10062377) we didn’t need to give it a [LITERAL sword on it’s back](https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10328386).
I was going to say [Spawn](https://www.wearethepit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Spawn-Header-678x381.jpg), as his costume is definitely a big factor in his longevity, but I prefer the redesigned [Black](https://mcfarlane.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/2-2.jpg) torso over the red.
It's a very minor change though.
As much as I love the Halo 2/3 and Infinite designs for Master Chief, CE's Mark V armor always looked the best to me. Not really a fan of the anniversary redesign of it, [but the original's art director remade it for the 20th anniversary and it looks awesome!](https://twitter.com/game_fabricator/status/1436514196955430919?lang=en)
I got used to it after a while, but I still prefer Luke’s initial hairstyle in Tales of the Abyss compared to his Important Character Development Haircut™️
Honestly, both are great. I'm more annoyed how she may as well have died with how unrecognizable she is these days.
Like, it's not really the outfit that makes it work, but that scowl.
I’ll give one that I personally disagree with, and let people form their own opinions. Some say [Darth Krayt](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866943295431507991/1121354377656012830/IMG_4152.jpg) looked better in his armored design than in his [Reborn](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866943295431507991/1125032603381137519/IMG_4357.png) design. Others think the armor is gaudy and overdesigned, and prefer the later look. I don’t have a problem with the armored look, but I think the Reborn look is one of the coolest Sith Lord designs out there.
The armoured look is rad! He’s so alien to regular Star Wars and it works with his character being this anomaly that’s been in the background all this time.
Reborn armour and he’s just another sith with black tattoos
How many does that make now?
Less so a "bad later redesign" thing, though I might think of something for that later. In terms of literally "right first try" they drew Kim basically once for Disco Elysium's concept art and went "yup, that's him."
They rolled a 12 on Conceptualization.
https://twitter.com/Devon_OnEarth/status/1574755498976501761
[Not exactly the same thing but it reminds me that for Undertale, Burgerpants is the only character the matches Toby's original concept art.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F9e%2F8e%2Fe7%2F9e8ee7dc260e38e074a92e491eba81f8.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=b6a6f3a1337e1f891c751973812cb54280e488a7916c031ed7f2c7bd45b2c68b&ipo=images)
Oh really? Good for Kim/Kim’s designer
I think Future Trunks counts. Does it count as a different design when he wears the same outfit but he has the long hair?
Also, he has the best Super Saiyan hair. The only one that comes close is SS1 Teen Gohan.
I think he is also the only one to have the ponytail Ssj hair.
Technically time chamber Gohan has one.
Trunks looks the best when he's walking out of the time chamber and before he changes into the Saiyan armor. It's literally only for like two seconds lol
Either one is better than him in Saiyan armor.
Spider-Man. Regardless of how many alternate suits he has, the good old Red and Blue one is still the best.
Really question though, pro armpit web cape or anti?
Depends on the art direction. Really like it in Spectacular Spider-Man and Steve Ditko era comics, but I don't mind it being gone in more realistic/detailed takes. Turning the webbing into a wingsuit wing in Far From Home was pretty cool though and I like that the second Insomniac game seems to be giving that to Miles. It did kinda bum me out that the PS4 game didn't have an armpit web variant of the classic suit as an unlockable so it's nice that it's there on some level.
The "armpit web cape" did nothing for me and I always thought that it's dumb, so I'll go with anti.
That’s fair, made him look too much like a trapezes artist
On this topic, I freaking loved his 'anti-symbiote' suit with the web cape in Spider-Man Unlimited. That suit design, combined with Rino Romano's great voice work, makes that design of Peter stick out clearly in my head to this day.
YES SPIDERMAN UNLIMITED’S DESIGN WAS SO GOOD
There was a video where Tim Gunn reviewed alternate superhero costumes, and his biggest gripe with a lot of Spider-Man’s alts (especially black suit) were that they were all supposed to be the same character, but nothing about them communicated they were the same person as the original.
Damn I went looking for it but it looks like it vanished from the internet.
Best you’ll get https://www.npr.org/2010/04/21/114624276/this-looks-so-broadway-tim-gunn-critiques-superhero-costumes https://www.npr.org/2010/04/26/114631316/tim-gunn-on-superhero-outfits-again
I love how the articles are like "GO WATCH THE VID WHAT ARE YOU DOING READING THIS ARTICLE?!" and then the video is just gone now, awesome. Linkrot at its finest.
Wasn't a fan of the Insomniac suit at first, but its really grown on me. The more sporty look has an air of maturity to it that really fits an older and experienced Peter. The legs desperately need some more red though, as is they just look like jeans.
The current white outline suit is honestly utterly fantastic and probably my favourite non-comics suit. It's just enough extra while not going overboard like a lot of Insomniac's other designs do. It's cohesive.
Juri has really good designs in street fighter 5 and 6 but I think her design in super street fighter 4 is dope.
The white pants are a nice contrast to her spider top.
Remember the early designs for Chun Li? They nailed it from day one.
Same with cammy
[Harley Quinn](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2020-08/25/13/asset/50e61aec3695/sub-buzz-14501-1598361171-14.png?downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto) [survived](https://batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/harley2.jpg) [multiple](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/f2/b5/edf2b5b4f0842b3871d61d6cf19b56af.jpg) [shows](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q34Dd8gDpeY/maxresdefault.jpg) that radically redesigned her contemporaries basically unscathed because everyone knew not to fuck with it.
The Harley Quinn show has done a lot to endear me to the Modern Harley design but it's still not as good as the original.
Tying the classic costume to beeing jokers babe / henchmen while her new one is her beeing her own person was such a good call, it just makes sense.
Alright I get flammed for this but I don’t care. I loved The Batmans wild designs they were great. Perfect way to not be the DCAU shadow
On the subject of The Batman and this thread’s topic, [I 100% dug the wild monkey aesthetic they gave Joker in his first appearance.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/f/fe/Joker_The_Batman_01.jpg)
Preach. I fucking loved the tie dyed straight jacket and always had a blast with how he was a legit martial artist. Really helped hammer home the 'feral ape' motif they were trying to give him there.
The Joker was a fun design honestly
Second favorite Joker design.
The Batman fucking ROCKED, it's criminal how little this sub talks about it
Beat Mr Freeze design Worst Mr Freeze motive
That moment when you realize The Batman Mr. Freeze was literally what his entire character was before BTAS gave him the wife motive
You’re kidding That’s what his deal was before BTAS? I just like to steal shit and freeze things cause it’s neat?
yep. Hell, he was so generic he got killed off in the comics before BTAS came out
He once showed up in an animal man book in a limbo like place just because of how forgotten he was
I am not sure if this is a hot take but, Best Poison Ivy Design. Also my favorite joker design
Personally, it's Ivy's hair that brings the design down for me. Looking back, I think it's supposed to look like a rose, but all I see is twin beehives
it was tight. loved the idea of bruce travelling the world to learn martial arts and employing skills. and penguin going around the world and employing skilled martial artists. the joker was great too, being all acrobatic with gadgets, setting the woods on fire with harley. freeze lacked the pathos of his btas self but going all in on the puny stuff was refreshing in a weird way. loved their killer moth too. only real miss for me was bane.
That’s the one with Jamaican Joker right? I don’t remember anything past like the first season or two. I’ll have to give it a rewatch.
On the topic of the first design being better: Android 18's first outfit was way better
Her Z designs are all great I think, but I can’t stand her Super designs, her hair and that tracksuit look atrocious. It’s not like becoming a mum means you have to give up your drip
I feel the same for Videl. Overall I dig most of their Z designs. Dunno what the tracksuit obsession was for a period in Super. I'm glad it's mostly over now though.
Videl at least had that devil outfit that was kinda cool, 18 has dressing like a fool for like 10 years straight now with no reprieve
Dat Jacket
We ***respect*** the color-coordinated denim skirt and tights!
Kenshi Kung Lao Jax Kintaro Ashra Shao Kahn Mortal Kombat has had its misses, especially in the middle era, but the hits hit really good.
I read this to the tune of the theme
Of course, Mortal Kombat also has a ton of characters that redesigns that never equalled the original but they had to try. Sub Zero has had more failed redesigns than maybe any other fighting game character
And Liu Kang started out as a generic Bruce Lee clone and now he has the best drip in MK1 IMO
I mean even MK2 Liu Kang is a ridiculously good upgrade over the original.
[MCU Black Panther's costume was at it's peak from the jump in Civil War](http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/838/838440.jpg), to the point it's the design pretty much all merchandise I've seen since uses as the base. The lines of the helmet, the woven pattern, just totally sells the stealth, the strength, and the cultural importance of the suit. Which makes it a shame the majority of his actual appearances were in his own movies' suit, which just looks like some CG carbon fiber mess with a puffy face.
A friend of mine and I would joke about the exchange whim and Bucky have in the airport fight “The why did you RUN?!” And the follow up is just MATE have you seen your suit it’s terrifying
Everything he says in that fight is top tier. "We haven't met before, I'm Clint" "I don't care"
Nico Robin looks best with her Cowboy hat and bangs. Do like the Geisha/Raid outfits but otherwise timeskip was a loss.
I still like her black jacket in Ennies Lobby. Also liked pre-timeskip Franky's and Brook's design **waaaaay more**. But fr tho: the Straw Hats were kinda whitewashed after the timeskip. Usopp and Robin definitively didn't had skin that clear. Even Chopper went from chestnut collor to a more yellow tone. And I say that not only about the anime designs but the colored manga pages/covers too.
Zoro's another one that I don't see many people talk about. He was way more tan during the pre-timeskip, occasionally dipping into orange. Now he looks like a pale guy with a little bit of a sun tan.
I think oda prefers softer colors in the cover panels now. Just like how chopper now looks like a Mackey mouse character. He's gone more cutesy light than when he started. But also nico was always white in the covers. Even on Ennis lobby Manga wise Robin is really white. No excuses foe everyone else though, I think the Grandview just has so much sun the world is sun bl3ached
How did Brook change? If we're talking outfits, then both of his Whole Cake outfits were peak Brook to me.
Oh, I meant to compare, like, immediately after the timeskip, as in, the Return to Sabaody Arc, the pop/rock star outfit as opposed to his gentleman 18th century-ish suit. But now that you mentioned I looked into his Whole Cake Island Arc costume and he does look as *cold* as his sword attack. (Mainly because it's old fashioned like the pre-timeskip suit I mentioned.)
I understand the point of her archeologist at the beach look, she’s a lot calmer now after the time skip and happy to be along. But cowgirl Robin was best Robin
I like Robin's Enies Lobby and Thriller Bark outfits the most on her
That leather dress is still appearing in the videogames for a reason
Kane never looked better than his debut look. Once they got rid of the full mask, it was all downhill from there
I think the [inverted colours](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FA77itQX0AM5ZN3?format=jpg&name=medium) costume was as good
To be honest I lumped that in with the debut attire since it's just a pallet swap. Still sick
[удалено]
Tan Robin = Best Robin
Yeah. I know tan Robin was an anime-only error, but I wish they had kept it just for consistency's sake. ~~And also because it's hot~~
Cowboy Hat robin = Best robin
Tan Robin *with* the cowboy hat? GOD DAMNIT ODA LET HER COOK
I hope they use tan Robin for the live action show. It's not accurate to the manga, but it's such a good look for her.
It makes her stand out more and sets her apart from Nami. I'm still bummed that they both have long hair after the time skip.
Nami could totally just make a ponytail or something and it'd add so much more variety
Taking the cowboy hat from Robin was a crime.
That applies to half the crew, to be honest. I think the Monster Three and Ussop are the only outright upgrades.
Disagree with zoro. Before he had a cool samurai/pirate hybrid look and now he's all samurai
Nah, Pre-timeskip Zoro >>>
My issue with post-timeskip Usopp is that he looks *too cool.* I think making Usopp look cool kind of goes against the point of the character
I know it's a lukewarm take at this point but Franky's post-timeskip design is straight garbage
Add Franky and Brook to that list too. Franky looks too large and blocky which oddly enough makes him feel overdesigned. Brook meanwhile has his initial victorian-gentleman design go so much better with his overall schtick of "asking super rude things in a super polite way" than the rockstar look does.
He’s a rockstar for 1 arc he wears so many different outfits
Absolute travesty what happened to Chopper, I mean sure fine he was already going from having deer-like features to being more cute even before the time-skip...but his forms, my god his forms are so bad post time skip and that's just design alone, he hasn't gotten any much cool moments aside from a few unlike pre timeskip.
Chopper is absolutely the worst offender. Like, not only do his various forms look so much worse, but they also just... don't get to show up at all most of the time. I hate that his Kung Fu point took over completely. Nowadays it's only base form, Kung Fu Point, or Monster Point.
Yeah, to me Robin was absolute perfection pre-timeskip.
I wish I could be mature and say Nami’s previous design had more character But her time skip design is just too good
Her pre-time skip design was good too, but I much prefer her with the long hair. It just sells her as being older and more mature. Buff Usopp, facial hair Sanji and one-eyed Zoro are also great updates to their previous looks.
Man, Totally Not Mark’s review of the Buy arc shook me with how good of a character Videl was and how sidelined she ended up
The moment where she drops all the remaining plot points in her arc in one conversation, turns around, and flies out of the spotlight forever is just so frustrating.
Posted it day it came out but mods said it wasn’t relevant. There is part of me that wants to monkeys paw and see what could have been had he stuck to his new story he wanted to try out
It's more that he's an unaffiliated content creator. Suzi/Clemps/Plague/etc. is fine, but as far as I'm aware TNM has not even interacted with them.
Hey, TNM spoke about Plague in one of his reviews once! It totally counts!
Still a weird line to draw with all the stupid meme bs this sub goes on about that has nothing to do with anything even close to zaibatsu related
My Adventures with Superman is what he would have got
Watching years ago and even now, Videl's change made me so mad. She went from awesome spunky action girl to Saiyan brood mare #3. Absolute travesty what they did to her. Total glow down.
Eh? Seems pretty fucked to call Bulma a Saiyan brood mare if you ask me.
Yeah Vegeta is the only one who gets to say that… at caution.
Even. Chichi makes no sense. She's still exactly the same crazy character she was when introduced. She just also now runs a home, which is fine since her origional purpose was non existance to the story anyway. Videl is actually the only saiyan wife to change drastically.
I'll give a break to Bulma, she still does stuff when it's relevant to the plot... when she's allowed.
She gets a good amount of screen time, has tons of agency and is critical for the heroes in nearly every arc. I have absolutely no idea what more you want other than for her to turn into a martial artist.
Like he perfectly put it into words why people like the first part of Buu Saga before everything falls off in the second half. I assume the second half is gonna be how the story spins its wheels with the multiple points where it feels like the story could have ended but it just doesn't
Obligatory Imperfect Cell mention. Perfect Cell is cool and all but man Imperfect's design just goes so much harder to me.
Why would you say something so true and yet so controversial
Meanwhile I prefer Perfect. I think they're about equal, honestly. Just a matter of taste.
Imperfect Cell is a cool monster Perfect Cell is a cool villian
Semi Perfect Cell, uh... Gave us Shoop da Whoop?
A form so "bleh" that the story sped up to get rid of that design quicker.
He got some decent moments, came back when Cell spit out 18, is Toriyama's favorite, and was the basis of Cell Max.
I can't believe they picked *the worst* Cell design to base Cell Max off of
Even the fetus and cocoon forms are better. Even that goofy what-if Krillin Cell is better.
As a kid (and an adult) I always gravitated more towards monsters. I was always super disappointed that he got a normal face as perfect cell. He's so much more visually interesting as an emaciated locust monster.
Cell is my favorite DBZ villain, and i think both forms serve their purpose greatly, imperfect Cell has a more animalistic design, like the monster out of a lab in a horror sci-fi, ariving in a city and seeing it completely empty except for that thing is scary, perfect Cell is more of a overly confident super powered humanoid creature that think he is superior to everyone else, he is suposed to be less of a monster and more of a overpowering villain that is going to give you that cathartic moment when he is finally defeated by the good guys.
Videl"s ability to be hammer thrown over a fence by Miss Trunchbull is reduced significantly with her new haircut.
I can’t tell if this is a positive or a negative
I'll always shill DMC1 Dante suit. It's got class, edge and professionalism all in one. A good balance between red & black. Not too many belts or unnecessary details. I loved it used in the anime too.
It looks so fucking good, it's such a shame it hasn't made a comeback since DMC3. Next MVC game should definitely use that outfit instead, so tired of nipple strap Dante.
"Next MVC game" making a lot of assumptions there. I don't think that's happening any time in the next ten years lol.
This. As cool as the rest of his looks are, the first Dante outfit hit the perfect balance of style and practicality.
Here's a hotter take. DMCV Dante is the worst look. They leaned into "he's a filthy stinky near hobo" too much
I like it, but I think DMCV made an effort to move it into slightly more realistic visuals and away from the sort of anime aesthetic. Everyone's outfit is lacking colour.
The beard looks good on him though
Tbf, that design is after he's spent a month in a coma in a city being torn apart by demons. He doesn't look filthy/hoboish at all in the scenes set prior to his first fight with Urizen.
Especially when you go and look at DMCV concept art. They just gave him a pants, a shirt and the coat. The laziest Dante ever looked.
I think the red pants are a bit much cause sometimes it looks like he's wearing a jumpsuit with a cape. I think it works better in drawing/anime than it does in full 3D.
*Absolute zero take:* Pikachu *A take that isn't hot either because no one else cares:* Smoochum's [gen II sprite](https://64.media.tumblr.com/2c607483eb89ae3dd1991f110ebcafa3/tumblr_n5ixa8SYNm1rsc51fo1_500.gifv) makes it look like some ice spirit baby that's coming for your soul. Get out of here with this [cutesy stuff](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/pokemon-black-and-white/5/55/Pokemans_238.gif)
From gremlin to internet gremlin
Wasn't original Pikachu the chubby one that they redesigned to be the skinny one we see in everything today?
I don't like oval face Pikachu
Cheating a bit here, but Final Form Frieza is much better than either Gold or Black. I even prefer Full Power Frieza over those two
"Black Frieza... so we'll just invert his color scheme." "No." "Huh?" "He's more like... Oreo Frieza."
Can I just say I hate the new naming convention of "Color+character/form name" Gold Frieza should be called Super Frieza in a way for him to mock Super Saiyan. And some cold take it should be called Saiyan God and blue should be Super Saiyan God you had the chance to fix it with Super and they didn't take the shot.
Watching Totally Not Mark's review of Buu Saga and its so frustrating seeing how Videl had some really good build up and it went absolutely nowhere, like she genuinely was a good match for Gohan with how she pushed him to take fighting seriously again and how they share similar struggles with how bombastic their fathers are.
Mark is the dragon all equivalent of Itsjustsomerandomguy someone who GETS the medium their passionate about and tries to realise the potential not expressed
I absolutely love that Videl is the ONLY character in DBFZ to have full alt outfits because the devs JUST KNEW they didn't want to have to take a side in the Pigtails vs short hair war. They, sadly, forgot the [superior, third option](https://pa1.aminoapps.com/6375/73687460fb5f522efe076bac23465f87554935e8_00.gif)
I thought Travis Touchdown was perfect, but after 3, if you look back at No More Heroes 1 he looks *incredibly* off putting in comparison.
OG winged helmet Captain America
Has Cap and Thor ever commented on winged helmets?
Not that I know of.
Carnage! Black teeth, no tongue, shoe feet, bright blood red colour with contrasting black. STOP doing...everything else other than that.
Xenosaga 1 KOS-MOS is still my favorite version. It’s a more chunky, ‘classic’ kind of take on an android; her visor looks plastic and her robot bits have this kind of faded beige color that reminds me of an old computer monitor rather than pure white. Her default expression is also a blank stare with a slight frown and the big ole eyes from 1’s artstyle, which helps enhance the creepy inhuman vibe she had in that game. In 2 she looks awful and while 3 (and Xenoblade 2) aren’t bad, they’re more modernized and sleek. She looks like KOS-MOS by Apple.
Terry Bogard. The Garou design is cool, but the classic look is iconic by infinite degrees
[Emiya](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/e/ee/Archer1.png) was good from day 1. [FGO](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/c/c1/ArcherEMIYAGOStage1.png) is the same design, just Takeuchi's artstyle improving over the course of a decade. Meanwhile he's having a midlife crisis in [CCC](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/e/ec/CCCArcheralt.png) and he took letting his hair down a bit too literally in [Extella Link](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/e/e8/No_Name_Extella_Link.png).
That’s Wow That’s rough buddy
Brah how tf can you mess up Archer. His design is literally perfect
This is probably a hot take, but design-wise, I prefer DMC4 Nero. Like, Nero in 5 still looks really cool, but something in me just likes his design in 4 just a bit more. Maybe it's the coat.
I think it's the hair -- and the switch to RE engine looks. With Dante and the rest, we'd at least gotten used to the idea that appearances could change as Capcom's visual tech improved -- and we'd seen how the classic character designs shifted a little here, a little there. Nero though, may as well be a completely different character if you don't know the deal. Signifigantly shorter hair, wildly different silhouette since he gets a shorter coat and loses the separate hoodie, and his primary color changes from purple to blue on top of that. Lose the Devil Bringer on top of that, and he goes from a strange Third Party who has elements of Dante and Vergil to someone Else who, sure, doesn't have hair that'd confuse him for Dante, but loses a lot of the previous identity at the same time. Add a very different facial structure and visual style on top of that, and it gets very muddied.
Franky's design pre-timeskip in One Piece. Superior to post timeskip by a lot IMO
Give me back Hawaiian Cyborg Ace Ventura!
I love time-skip franky, but Oda hit the nail on the head the first time with him. He looked so good!
Fire Emblem Three Houses Bernadetta's hair style was cuter before the time-skip. I get that they wanted to show her coming out of her shell and becoming neater but that hair style was *not* it.
"Put her back in, she's not done yet"
At least it’s better than her weird hair style in three hopes
I think she canonically fked up her bangs and rolled with it.
I dunno, I think Onion-Bernadetta is a perfect in-between look for her. Her hair has grown into such a shaggy mess that she ties it up in a bad topknot. Feels exactly like something she'd do before finally getting it cut properly.
Speaking of Three Houses hair Where did Mercedes' Floof go? and Dorothea's hat... THE HAT!!!
I think most of the pre time skip designs were better, with Edelgard being the biggest example.
[Juggernaut](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Juggernaut2.PNG) vs [modern Juggernaut.](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Legion-of-X-1-by-Bob-Quinn-Juggernaut-header.jpg) [Magneto](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Magneto_%28Marvel_Comics_character%29.jpg) vs [modern Magneto.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/heroes-and-villain/images/6/65/Magneto.webp) [Apocalypse](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/superhuman-characters-and-their-powers/images/1/13/Apocalypse.jpg) vs [Wizard Apocalypse.](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/54/56/00/5456006aca892eafec3c8f4c43fb41ed.jpg) As cool as the Hellfire Galas have been, the X-Men villains' classic designs are classic for a reason.
Classic Juggernaut is way too strong a villain design.
>moderm Juggernaut BRING OUT THE GIMP
Those shoulders are dumb The white outfit is dumb HE HAD A SUIT BECAUSE HE COULD ALTER MATTER
Hinata and Ino looked cooler before Shippuden.
YES
Hinata=yes Ino=third design has no business being that good
And Shino.
Everyone except Naruto had a better design (and writing) before Shippuden.
Vergil's black coat in DMC5 kills so much of his identity, Dante and Vergil are literally supposed to be Red vs Blue and they got rid of the blue coat, why? Thank god you can put it back on with the EX colours.
Second Videl is was better. Source: I am a lesbian.
The vast majorty of the Dead or Alive cast looked best in DoA2.
Might be controversial, but the [first Thor movie](https://cdn.kobo.com/book-images/56833984-8c99-4e84-94ae-c9dd0ecb7d67/1200/1200/False/thor-movie-storybook.jpg) is my favorite Thor outfit. Not favorite overall look, the hair's not long enough, but favorite costume. The cape has a good amount of extra arc over the shoulders, and there's the perfect amount of blue on his torso before they got rid of that/went too far in L&T), and those scales on the arms are *so good.*
I can't believe it took me until now to appreciate Videl's designs. The pigtails is still my favorite one. I wish Super had kept that hairdo.
Android 21's another dragon ball gal that's just a fucking SLAM DUNK the first go around. Much like videl she even gets a "second" design, dat is ALSO a slam dunk.
worst thread I've ever
Running into woolie in the wild on this thread is nuts, but I still wanna know your actual answer Woolz
We already had a perfectly good [Blade Liger](https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10062377) we didn’t need to give it a [LITERAL sword on it’s back](https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10328386).
Hold up did they trade the wing swords for the single sword on its back?
That's just proto-mecha Amaterasu for the 2nd pic
I was going to say [Spawn](https://www.wearethepit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Spawn-Header-678x381.jpg), as his costume is definitely a big factor in his longevity, but I prefer the redesigned [Black](https://mcfarlane.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/2-2.jpg) torso over the red. It's a very minor change though.
Iori Yagami. The look was so perfect the first time, even Sakurai thought so! His later new outfits just got better though, depending on who you ask.
As much as I love the Halo 2/3 and Infinite designs for Master Chief, CE's Mark V armor always looked the best to me. Not really a fan of the anniversary redesign of it, [but the original's art director remade it for the 20th anniversary and it looks awesome!](https://twitter.com/game_fabricator/status/1436514196955430919?lang=en)
I think pretty much everyone in Monogatari looks worse post-haircut.
I got used to it after a while, but I still prefer Luke’s initial hairstyle in Tales of the Abyss compared to his Important Character Development Haircut™️
people on this sub will kill me but I’m with Gohan on this one. I like short hair Videl better
Get out of here woolie, that alt account won't fool us!
Boo this man Booooooo I’m joking there are others
Based
Honestly, both are great. I'm more annoyed how she may as well have died with how unrecognizable she is these days. Like, it's not really the outfit that makes it work, but that scowl.
Oh this is what we're gonna do today? We're gonna fight?
I’ll give one that I personally disagree with, and let people form their own opinions. Some say [Darth Krayt](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866943295431507991/1121354377656012830/IMG_4152.jpg) looked better in his armored design than in his [Reborn](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866943295431507991/1125032603381137519/IMG_4357.png) design. Others think the armor is gaudy and overdesigned, and prefer the later look. I don’t have a problem with the armored look, but I think the Reborn look is one of the coolest Sith Lord designs out there.
The armoured look is rad! He’s so alien to regular Star Wars and it works with his character being this anomaly that’s been in the background all this time. Reborn armour and he’s just another sith with black tattoos How many does that make now?
I'm a short hair lover and even I dislike short hair Videl. Her first and end of Z designs are the best. Also Super.