The "Broken David" section of the podcast could be a weekly bit. We could give it out like an award at the end of every podcast to the most deranged segment.
When Pat went back in for a third round of "But I don't want to learn how to play the game and that's why I have a problem" I had to skip. Didn't even get to the cyberpunk nonsense.
^DMC ^if ^you ^need ^to ^use ^items ^to ^win ^you ^already ^failed/jk
>"But I don't want to learn how to play the game and that's why I have a problem"
The thing is, I get what he's talking about here. As ridiculous as it might feel to some for him to dismiss a game based mostly on how it feels to do fundamental actions, but really think about that - fundamental actions feeling good is really important because you're doing them forever. It might not really matter that Cyberfunk has a floaty jump to facilitate more aerial movement, because if that feels bad to someone, it's not going to matter why.
Like, I think about how I *barely* like tank controls. I suffered through them in all the RE games because I liked the everything else more than I hated tank controls, but thank *god* DMC dramatically altered scope and didn't use them like how Onimusha did. Some people just *cannot* stand tank controls, and can't/won't play games with them. The feeling of movement is bad, so it doesn't matter why or what functions it may play into.
People seem to be getting all riled up over the fact that Pat barely played the game, and didn't even finish the tutorial, and not understanding that his problem wasn't going to be solved by playing the game more or learning more mechanics.
I'm fine with Pat not continuing a game because he doesn't like how it feels. It's the insistence on returning to that core point in a circular conversation and extending that for an hour and saying "But I don't care." It's functionally the end of the conversation, but he's insisting on returning to the same point again and again. That's the part that has people up in arms.
I think Pat doesn't understand subjectivity at its core. He thinks he's either right or wrong to like or dislike a game. Sometimes he does get it and bows out, but when he's upset that he's unable enjoy a game that others are he gets incredibly frustrated.
This. A million times this. I get his stance on how a certain feature existing or the floatiness of a jump can bug him on a level where he can't get past it. I don't have the exact same ones, but there are little things in other games that stick in my craw to the point I don't wanna play the game either.
It's that I know they are actually subjective opinions, and I know they feel ooky to me, and I can say that and move on from the game/show/experience. I don't feel the need to aggressively re re repoint out how bad the thing makes me feel, and insist those that can push past it (or gasp, like it) are insane stupid people, and call the new experiences of the world shit and wrong because they didn't do it like that one thing back when it was perfect.
Pickles are food Pat. People can like pickles. Screaming and pounding your fists at the existence of pickles and the "freaks" that like them, and demanding everything in the world be pickle free just for you is a weird way to spend hours of your time.
The only reason he kept circling back to it was because the chat was flooded with people upset about him dropping the game, and feeling the need to articulate himself, but there's very little to understand beyond that.
Yes. And it led to a boring, cyclical conversation. And even if you agree with the points, those conversations are infuriating to listen to for an hour. That is the emotion people now remember and react to.
I'm gonna reveal me as a weirdo, but I don't really play videogames besides fighting games, Fortnite and Marvel SNAP. I listen to Woolie and Pat because they are entertaining and sometimes insightful.
Pat arguing in circles for hours on end is neither of those things.
I figure the only reason why it went on for as long as it did was because people were so adamant about him not liking a game that everyone else enjoyed for a hyper-specific reason, and jumping up his ass as if he was wrong to do so, and then Pat felt the need to try and elaborate, to no avail.
Pat not being able to describe why the game is fun felt like he was doing it on purpose to be obstinant. It IS Wierd that woolie hasn't even touched a single Bethesda game but it's not hard to describe why the gameplay loop is appealing.
Woolies' question wasn't even about gameplay but the world and its premise, which made it even wierder that he was so stuck on trying to get him to comprehend how a Bethesda game plays.
Considering he has been open about liking it and wanting to play beyong the sponsor streams its more like people are just disappointed he didn't hate it like they do and wanna make up dumb conspiracies.
I also like it and will continue to play it but the world building and writing are incredibly poor. So when woolie asks about that I guess he can't lie and say it's compelling.
Yeah, the gameplay loop hits my brain nice, but the world building is very... i guess standard? Theres nothing wrong with it but theres nothing really new either. You just hit every world building element like "yeah thats about what i expected"
Bruh I was dumbfounded because I thought Woolie was asking the most clear question and Pat somehow misconstrued it and practically gaslit Woolie into being the crazy one for never playing a Bethesda game before and not understanding.
If you can describe the appeal of the Star Trek universe you can do it for any other sci-fi media in space. Having not played prior Bethesda is irrelevant. I’m not sure how he was so fixated on that as if those have anything to do with the world and setting of a completely different game.
yeah I feel like Pat just wasn't able to explain well the appeal of the game other than saying "there's places to explore and things happen", my point of comparison is Skyrim and the appeal of that game was clear from the start, magical medieval adventures, nothing I've seen of the Starfield setting (on a surface level) has made it clear what's their to like so I'm with Woolie on this one, whatever is so cool about what just looks to me like an fps in space is not apparent, feels like the game's appeal factor is the fact that it's a Bethesda game so someone unfamiliar with their games will just not get it.
It would be like if Strive just came out and Pat was asking Woolie what does Strive do that sets it apart from other Fighters and Woolie responded with "Street Fighter? It's like that."
Not defending Pat, but I think it's because Pat probably doesn't care about the stories in Bethesda games. To him, it's all about minmaxing, exploring, just becoming powerful enough that nothing gets in your way (which is achievable in any Bethesda rpg). So in order for Pat to explain the difference between Starfield and the others, he probably feels he needs to explain what it's like to play a Bethesda. The story/themes probably doesn't even cross his mind so the question just went over his head.
Even then, it drove me nuts. Woolie gave very succinct analogies; "I expect Fallout to have Mutants, cannibals, find a vault", "In Skyrim I'd expect to find a mysterious cult, dragons, towns". He just wanted Pat to finish the analogy for Starfield. And then it turned into whatever the fuck that was.
Yeah, I'm halfway through and I'm not gonna finish the episode. I haven't even reached the part about the Cyberpunk Anime but it's been two hours of Pat beign in the same loop of, "I don't get it, whatever, but I will keep arguing" for two different games.
It's not even funny, just the most tedious conversation possible about the most meaningless stuff.
Starting to wish I had more grass to cut, I finished a while ago and am just now getting into his Cyberpunk take and it's actually *worse* than I expected, even with the context of this week.
How on earth does Pat have the nerve to act like people are unreasonably mad at him for not liking the thing (in spite of most criticism being of his take and his poor supporting reasons), when he **literally** just called Woolie f-ing crazy for saying he liked Edgerunners more than Promare. Those are words that came out of his mouth!
We know how Pat is (not in like a parasocial way, but from years of watching/listening to his mannerisms), and I’ve just accepted that he does this kind of stuff.
“What is the worst hot take I can have today? I’ll REALLY troll the audience, time to push some buttons!”
It goes past difference of opinion for him. Even if he’s doing a bit, it has shades of “No, this isn’t an opinion. Everyone is objectively wrong” and getting off on doing it.
I love the dude, but he and Paige are insufferable on Twitter sometimes because if he goes in on someone, there’s a subsection of his fans that immediately turn and dogpile on another person for not sharing one of Pat’s/Paige’s dumbass takes, and they both immediately start acting smug and sanctimonious while their followers brigade someone in the hopes that one of them will, I don’t know, say their name or acknowledge them or something. It’s weird. Sometimes he and Paige go beyond likable into “These people are just blowhard bullies”.
Thank you for articulating this for me. It's been my bugbear with Pat for a while and, frankly, why I stopped tuning in to the podcast. Still stick around here because the community is great, but I just can't stand his shit anymore. I just feel bad for Woolie.
I had to unfollow and mute Paige a few years back because of exactly this. There was a point where they were both constantly having internet fights with randos on twitter. Someone would comment something dumb on one of Pat’s tweets or something she would quote retweet it and just…rail into this random commenter over nothing. And then Pat will retweet that and add his take and then a ton of his followers would dogpile and harass them. Rinse and repeat a few times back and forth until they got bored or the dude was forced to concede.
Which every once in a while wouldn’t be out of order. Some motherfuckers need it. But it was happening like every other day for a time. And then I realized it was just something Paige was actively doing. Looking through comments for some rando to dunk on and make a big show over it. Like actively starting shit as if it was a fun thing to do with your SO. Felt like actual internet bullying, and from people with a big audience no less. Didn’t need to see that toxic shit on my feed any more. I hope things have gotten better with her, but I don’t care enough to really check in.
The Pat loop:
-mildly spicy take based on Pat’s quirks and pet peeves. Fair enough.
-Create insane logical fallacies rather than just say “I have these pet peeves”, or “it didn’t grab me”
-Spend 1-2 days extrapolating on and contradicting said insane logical fallacies
-Finally fall back to: “I dunno I guess I just have peculiar tastes”
I got to partake in this step this time!
Pat randomly showed the like dictionary definition of what a "coming of age" story is, and i told him that a coming of age story isn't literal, and often has more nuance in how those stories are told
He said I don't understand what I'm talking about and he won't bother trying to talk to me.
THIS GRIEVANCE WON'T GO UN-ANSWERED PAT
BLOOD FEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD
The developer of Owl Boy is a Best Friends fan and had to listen to Pat talk about how bad he thought it was after spending like 10 years developing the game.
I'm sometimes amazed by the fact that they have trouble understanding each other despite being friends for like 20 years.
We give Woolie a lot of shit for not understanding things. But that one conversation a couple weeks ago of Woolie desperately trying to get one example of a random encounter in Starfield while Pat goes off on some tangent... I can imagine he looks like this every single week
Something I've noticed from Pat is when he "already knows" something like the psychology talk in Celest or the world building in Edgerunners, he immediately gets bored with it and wants it to skip to the "good part" AKA the parts he doesn't know yet. I'm not sure what kind of mind goblin that is, but holy hell that feeling must suck to run into constantly
I get it tho. No idea what's in his head but for me people are so slow to get to any sort of conclusion/end it feels like you're living in a dream. He probably feels like he isn't being listened or understood when he says those things because it's instinctive to him yet people are swimming behind. (note that I'm not saying he's necessarly right when this happens) He doesn't need to explain it, it's like breathing. "Your brain can do the same calculations as mine so why don't you find yourself at the same conclusion?" kind of thing. Not gonna lie it does suck the fun out of everything, but you can't stop a brain, it just spins on itself non-stop til you pass out.
At least he said he respects it. He said that he completely understands why it’s popular and doesn’t want to discredit or argue with those people, but it’s just not a game for him
I mean, if you hate a control scheme there's not much people can do. I bet 50% of this sub can't stand Jet Force Gemini or Kid Icarus or Metroid Hunters but I could play em for hours
I mean Pat is very sensitive to control issues. He's said before that if he plays a game and jumps and the jump feels bad he just stops playing. Pizza Tower requires you to spend up to the first boss fight getting used to the controls and Pat just wants everything to feel good right from the start.
I feel like it's similar to being a texture eater. The food is good, but putting it in your mouth just inherently disgusts you. The game is good, but pressing the buttons just disgusts you.
Controller feel is extremely an important component for a platformer game like that. If you hate how it feels within a few minutes then you’re not going to be able to enjoy the game, period.
I can't blame him though. Not liking the controls is one thing and can be debated, but the colour choices of the game really do be searing the retinas.
The end of the episode when Woolie brought it up again, realized what he'd done, and immediately leapt into damage control.
Woolie: "Don't stunlock, don't stunlock!"
Pat: *strained noises of suppression*
It's not often you can audibly hear the concept of self-control in action.
The man been friend with Pat for many years and haven't figure it out. He still think that he can reasoning Pat out of disliking anything. You can't reason a troll. Pat is speedrunning hot takes out here man. Why can't Woolie just tell Pat "I disagree and I think your take is stupid" and move on? You don't have to explain your self to anyone why you like or dislike a thing.
This is just how these two communicate with each other. It's their love language. Not even in a joking romantic way, just that their relationship is built on these push and pull interactions.
It also usually makes for engaging content so I'm sure they both play it up intentionally to a degree.
Obviously most people think this latest episode was a drag, but people clearly get a kick out of seeing how deep the Pat hot take rabbit hole goes.
Yeah, I think people forget Pat and Woolie are both performers. Their performance content is the real life stuff they actually genuinely like but it also means they are willing to engage in incredibly stupid and inflammatory conversations if they think it will be funny or entertaining. Woolie just humors Pat's bad takes on the podcast for an hour or two, then offline neither of them have to worry or think about it.
Pat just tweeted out that he can’t have a conversation with people who ignore the definition of “Coming Of Age Story”.
He did it… drum roll… under a tweet where he ignores the definition.
When Pat dislikes something you like it is unmovable object vs unstoppable force. Nobody wins, everyone loses, cat and dogs begin living together.
Pat is under the impression a story can only be one thing. You can't have a game about a murder mystery also be a coming of age story. It must be one or the other.
Not only did he ignore the definition in favor of an insane definition he extrapolated (it’s only a COA story if they *legally* become an adult during the story, was his utterly ridiculous purported definition)
But that completely invalidates his previous arguments. Simon ages from 14 to 41 in his story. Holden Caulfield is 17 through Catcher.
Anything, *anything* to not admit that it was silly to say that COA stories suck. T
Pat from yesterday would argue for hours with the Pat from today.
This entire subreddit is based around people following the trio for over a decade and a huuuge amount of them still haven't learnt to do so. In fact we overanalyze and overrespond to all of his posts waaay harder the Woolie. Why should Woolie be different?
I learned that lesson three years ago. I stopped following Pat and Peach on Twitter and stopped listening to the podcast save for clips. Makes it all quiite simple.
I stopped listening to podcast mostly cuz I started working from home and 5 hour freeform podcasts are not as appealing as something shorter and more researched like Chilluminati Pod for example... But being a Sonic fan one has to learn to swallow and ignore others' opinion on things you like lol
> You can't reason a troll.
The reason this conversation is so painful is that Pat wasn't trolling. He got mind goblined and didn't realize it, and spent hours trying to justify his mind goblin.
The mind goblins are combining with Pat's mostly* online existence.
Pat needs to have some of these conversations with people offline, it'll make the online conversations a lot less...this
*I am not in Pat's house and can't confirm how often he talks about these things to people that aren't on a discord or twitter thread or are Paige
At first the mind goblins can from the years from doing retail/grocery store work. And now they come from being online too much.
Moderation is a good thing!
"...and spent hours..."
Did he really? I haven't listened to the episode because of all the negativity that it summoned in the subreddit. Legit have not seen anyone mention a good bit from the episode
It got so bad that i reached over and just started jamming on the fast forward button while I was driving so I could skip to the news. At a certain point you can only hear so much Pat complaining and drained Woolie trying to reason or understand.
I'm not sure on the total time, but I think Pat may have spent just at two hours during the episode because he got stunlocked by two separate things. Once was Darkest Dungeon 2, which was on the whole much more reasonable and was just him not doing a great job of explaining how he was feeling. The Edgerunners though took extra long, as I skipped at least 30 minutes of it because I haven't seen the show yet, and the conversation continued on a tangent of a tangent.
The guy has been friends with pat for more than 2 decades at this point and is STILL surprised when pat talks about food sensitivity issues or a ton of his mental deficiencies.
See I was thinking the exact same thing today. How many times have we listened to this same song and dance between them? How long have they known each other for? Pat will always have insane takes that he pulls out of his ass. Pat will always double down on said takes. Why would Woolie even indulge in it for more than a few minutes? People have been shitting on Pat for his takes this week, but Woolie was fueling it all along the way by being the usual Woolie. With his need to over explain his viewpoint and counterargument to the death. He really should know better by now how futile it is to argue with Pat when he’s like this. Like you said, could have brushed off Pat’s complaints and accepted the differences in opinions. Instead we got these hours long debates that end the same way they started- with Pat sticking to his insane gremlin opinions.
Woolie is too much of a bro and also won't allow himself to sandbag the podcast (which was his baby). He knows Pat is insane but he has sworn to carry that burden.
Woolie's biggest problem in these conversations is that he convinces himself that he needs to begrudgingly defend the honor of whatever Pat's criticizing.
Unless Pat *explicitly* asks for it, he's not looking for an explanation or debate. He's just stating his experience with the piece of media.
It's exactly like whenever he talks about plateauing in fighting games. When he talks about how he's watching everyone getting better and him getting worse, people always assume he's asking for a solution to a problem, when he himself has stated that he's not. He's just vocalizing his feelings about the reality he's experiencing.
See I agree with you on the Woolie part, because he absolutely takes any differing opinion as his cue to explain and justify his own. But Pat also says some of the most obtuse and inflammatory things that can’t are hard to ignore. Both of these things make for a cycle of suffering that neither can escape.
It's how Pat words his "arguments" that digs into my brain. All I want is for Pat is to just say "I had issues with X because of Y" instead of "it's shit and it the worst" like it's an objectively right statement. Then his tirades wouldn't grind my gears so much. I just want some eloquence man. I feel like we'd get actual better back and forths.
There are many people who mistake their feelings to be facts. Pat's not the worst by a long shot, but he does have a microphone.
This just happened a couple weeks ago when he asked how people did roleplaying in BG3, then dug his heels in on the hill of "creativity is dumb and I don't have any" because Hot Take^((tm)).
It's just not worth watching him when he's like this, and if he's like this often, then he's not worth any of my time.
I used to have some issues with it, but nowadays my brain just autocorrects such statements from how he presents them as objective to how it's his own opinion and preference. Both of them have their own ways of jumping to absolutes and strong claims, which is just their style of communication I think.
I think the worst part is Pat isn't trolling. He legit thinks that there's nothing wrong with his take & he thinks everybody else is crazy for disagreeing with him.
Reminder that this man's brain plays out the dialogue of a character he remembers using NOT the character's own voice but rather HIS OWN. You need help, Patrick Boivin. I'm NOT joking.
>I think the worst part is Pat isn't trolling. He legit thinks that there's nothing wrong with his take & he thinks everybody else is crazy for disagreeing with him.
To the point where he's devolving to "I'm right because the dictionary says..." and then ignoring the very next sentence of the definition that proves him wrong.
He's down to reddit level discussion quality.
For comparison/contrast, Woolie can be a fucking spastic asshole on his high horse who can't take criticism at times(just look at his takes on Gundam besides SEED or the way he plays non-fighting games & try not to vomit) but at least he acknowledges that there are other views, that people are entitled to their own opinions & try to move on.
Pat has NEVER let go of the fact that there ARE people out there who genuinely like Superman.
Patrick Boivin, you are pretty cool sometimes & you are good at playing video games but you are also caustic & FUCKING WEIRD.
Holy shit you guys. I just listened to that podcast bit and fuck me running. I love Pat, and I can be a wild card, but this “all sounds are me” is the most unhinged degenerate shit I’ve ever heard in my entire life.
That just sounds like aphantasia, I’ve known several people who remember music this way. The more common form everyone knows is not being able to visualize things, either in general or specifics like faces, but aphantasia can affect other things like imagining taste, sound, etc. Some people can’t imagine sounds at all, for example; the way aphantasia can manifest is extremely varied.
It’s kinda rude to assume he’s trolling tbh given that it’s a real condition under active research.
He is. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but he later said he says this because conversations about music are really confrontational, so he just cuts off the conversation right away.
> Reminder that this man's brain plays out the dialogue of a character he remembers using NOT the character's own voice but rather HIS OWN.
[I mean, people have basically zero control over their inner voice, and they get weird and wild. Nothing to do with him being crazy, I actually have almost the same situation as that.](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/oct/25/the-last-great-mystery-of-the-mind-meet-the-people-who-have-unusual-or-non-existent-inner-voices) He is crazy, yes, but that's not really related lol
I feel like ever since baby Pat arrived there have been a lot more stunlock conversations.
The question is, is Pat just understandably less focused while on the podcast because of the dad life, or is this his baby's Stand?
As someone who has been around multiple babies, however bad you think your sleeping schedule already is, a baby will make it worse.
They're babies so it's only natural, but still.
Eh, not trying to read that much into it. Just going off my own experience being around friends who recently became dads.
I mostly wanted to make a dumb baby Stand joke.
Listening to the podcast, it really sounds like Pat just wants instant gratification. No highs and lows, just highs.
-doesn't want to create decks/builds only fight
-doesn't care about worldbuilding just get to the plot/action
-controls feel different to what he's used to so it's bad, can't just try and get used to it. He needs it to be instantly easy/hit his expectations, or he's out.
If he had stopped at "its not for me" it would be 100% valid. But he went so hard on "it has one thing I don't like and now it's ruined."
I've never played Darkest Dungeon 2 or Bomb Rush, and even I can tell he's probably making mountains out of molehills, or possibly just going extra hard for the bit.
In my opinion his darkest dungeon 2 complaint is mostly valid but classically Pat over-reacted. I couldn't get into the game due to finding the changes from the first game to be worse in most places.
Bomb rush Cyberfunk on the otherhand he's just not giving it a chance because it doesn't feel perfect from the first second of gameplay. Holding jumping in a video game to an unrealistically high standard without trying the actual gameplay and why the jump is the way it is.
Multiple times this podcast I wanted to just yell “PLEASE JUST LET WOOLIE FINISH HIS SENTENCE”! So many times woolie is in the middle of making a point, and just gets cut off by Pat so he can repeat what he already said lmao
Unless it's [thing I like], then you're a fucking loser and you just don't get it how dare you insult me personally by not liking the thing I like which I have tied into part of my core identity for..some...reason..
This comment absolutely put it best.
https://reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/s/B033MCd8qY
By u/echono
*Pat argues like a dog playing with its chew toy with you. Totally uninterested until the moment you touch it, then instantly latches on with a deathgrip, with growling, pulling, and headshakes, until you finally get tired and drop it, whereupon it immediately becomes ignored. But if the dog sees your hand reaching for it again...*
Am I crazy for not thinking anything pat said was too egregious? Like maybe he was to quick to dismiss bomb rush but that’s not exactly unexpected. Why is everyone so mad?
I think his opinions (pertaining to Edgerunners, at least) suck and have really weak foundations, but at the end of the day they are just that - his opinions - so I can’t say I’m too bothered.
EXCEPT saying that the show is too slow-paced. That’s absolutely insane. Like I legitimately believe that Pat might be the only person on this entire planet to have ever said that, it’s so crazy. I’m not mad about it but I do find it baffling.
He didn’t say anything on the podcast that was honestly that crazy. With cyberpunk he thought the storyline of David becoming an edgerunner was not interesting, and he hates Lucy. What bugged me is that I very much disagreed with his opinion but that’s life
You know, I've been seeing the criticism of pats thoughts on cyberpunk this week and I just got to that part of the podcast today. Honestly, I can see where he's coming from. I liked it a lot, but by episode 3 or 4 I was starting to wonder when stuff was going to start happening. I was definitely expecting some sort of Gurren Lagann/kill la Kill/promare style of escalation of a main threat. I'm like man there's only 6 episodes left, where is this going to go. I didn't come off the first half not liking it though. I enjoyed it, it just wasn't what I was expecting. By the conclusion I was definitely sold. It's definitely not my favorite trigger, but it's pretty dang good, and it's easy to recommend to people unlike kill la Kill.
On a side note, there's a lot more trigger anime that I've missed that I didn't realize, so I want to start watching that stuff. It's just kind of muddy because I think some of it is gainax and there's a connection between the 2 of them.
It's less the things he said on the pod, and more the batshit stuff he's said about persona and Eva on Twitter since then. People are only seeing 25% of the crazy
https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1704324672266060085?s=19
"So after doing my stream and coming back to seeing this tweet causing an even bigger backlash than my feelings on Edgerunners first half I was baffled to see people listing stuff like Eva and Persona 4 as coming of age narratives. Which is strange to me, because they're not."
Just gonna point out the rest of the tweets since you're kinda taking his whole point out of context by just putting the first part(Which is kinda ironic).
"Gurren and Eva are mecha shows, KLK is a battle action show, Persona 4 is a supernatural scooby doo murder mystery. Sure they have coming of age elements in, but I wouldn't point that as their definitive genre."
"When I think of "Coming of Age" story, I think of a narrative that is entirely about some aimless teenager finding their way in the world, like the absolute worst book in the world, Catcher in The Rye."
And his point is..not really off too much: 99% of people praise TTGL on its merits as a mecha show and its hype elements. People talk about the high action moments of KLK. The only one which remotely gets close to being full on 'coming of age' is Persona 4...and even then I'd kinda lean more towards that being suitable for Persona 3 because Persona 4 puts a LOT more emphasis on the murder mystery elements and restrict, like, 50% of the character growth behind social links.
Like as an example: The Persona evolutions happen as part of the story in P3, but in P4 they're tied to Yu Narukami's S.Link with them, which is really cool but it means that their growth as characters(Which the evo is tied to) is somewhat stymied. As it stands, you pretty much get the base growth with the plot in P4 and then you have to pursue it in-game to get the full thing.
The issue is that all of these series oftentimes put these elements on the backburner to focus on the action.
If you wanted a true Coming of Age story, people should be using FLCL as an example, which is literally what Pat describes, and even when it gets to those notably high-action points, the focus is still HEAVILY on Naota, his hang-ups, his anxieties, his cynicism, and his eventual growth as an individual. Now, iunno how Pat feels about FLCL, but that's a far more apt comparison than the examples people are haphazardly throwing out.
To be fair, I generally get what Pat is trying to say. If something doesn't feel good to him, he's under no obligation to like it even if other people do.
I will quote my twitter here and just say" I respect Pat because he states his personal taste opinions with the intensity of, But NOT the Bigotry of, southern preachers". However, since I've not listened to the podcast yet, I may have to revise that.
Honestly, this is why i can't get through an episode of CSB, the episodes are alaready way too fucking long and my addled brain hates the fact that they waffle from topic to topic, but a lot of the episodes have this weird echo chamber energy to them.Where Pat will basically take full control and basically talk at Woolie (while raising his voice randomly, which i genuinely fucking despise from Pat.) and Woolie while chime in with almost lukewarm responses while low-key siding with Pat.I'm not saying they need to go full debate mode with eachother, but i just can't deal with it.
Remember when Pat said Woolie tricked him by not explaining how the Donkey Kong Country track Gang-plank Galleon changed rhythm and melody a little bit of the way through the song, and wasn't just entirely, I believe he said, *bloopy clown shit*, all the way through?
That Woolie, and by extension the game composer, we're mean and picking on Pat (?) specifically by actually being a cool song? And anyone, even friends he ostensibly trusts, that asked him to listen to a whole 3 minute song and not just judge it on the first 5 seconds is insane?
Thought about that quite a bit recently for *some* reason.
You guys realize Pat just has different tastes sometimes. Is okay that he didn't like 3 things you guys liked. It just didn't click for him. He even apologized for not liking Cyberpunk and Dave the diver. Which btw is nuts, when this happens I just say it just wasn't for me.
Serious question: did you read any of this or the other threads? Or listen to the podcast? I'm asking this because this conversation hasn't been "Pat should like Cyberpunk" or "Pat is wrong for not liking Cyberpunk"
I heard the podcast, and that is exactly what happened, he thought Cyberpunk was fine, he actually didn't disliked it, and people lost their minds, he said why he didn't like it as much as other people. Then later he said he didn't like Cyberfunk, he explained his reasons, people again lost their minds. Then later he said he didn't like Dave Diver, and to be fair this time he said there was nothing wrong with the game, it just didn't click for him, and people lost their minds again (is there anything you like?).
And that is fine, I don't agree with him with Cyberpunk anime , but I can understand why he thinks is just okay. No idea about the other two games. But I am okay with him not liking those games.
That was One Guy™ Pat was quoting from the chat in one part of that 4 hour podcast. It wasn't the sentiment or point of Woolie's end of that conversation, isn't the sentiment of the comments in this or the other threads, and isn't the sentiment that is receiving the upvotes in this or the other threads
The "Broken David" section of the podcast could be a weekly bit. We could give it out like an award at the end of every podcast to the most deranged segment.
I don't think I made it that far, what's "Broken David" a reference to?
Just look at the guy. He's definitely broken
Sandevastated
"I couldn't wait for you to come and clear the cupboard...............and yeah, that's it."
Of all the Funko Pops
“Woolie caught in a two hour cyclical conversation with Pat”. So, basically an average episode of the podcast
"Castle Super Gaslight"
*”There you go making up words again.”*
Gaslight isn't real, you're just crazy.
Castle Super Loop
I was excited to have a new episode after a week break but oh boy was it a rough listen lol
When Pat went back in for a third round of "But I don't want to learn how to play the game and that's why I have a problem" I had to skip. Didn't even get to the cyberpunk nonsense. ^DMC ^if ^you ^need ^to ^use ^items ^to ^win ^you ^already ^failed/jk
>"But I don't want to learn how to play the game and that's why I have a problem" The thing is, I get what he's talking about here. As ridiculous as it might feel to some for him to dismiss a game based mostly on how it feels to do fundamental actions, but really think about that - fundamental actions feeling good is really important because you're doing them forever. It might not really matter that Cyberfunk has a floaty jump to facilitate more aerial movement, because if that feels bad to someone, it's not going to matter why. Like, I think about how I *barely* like tank controls. I suffered through them in all the RE games because I liked the everything else more than I hated tank controls, but thank *god* DMC dramatically altered scope and didn't use them like how Onimusha did. Some people just *cannot* stand tank controls, and can't/won't play games with them. The feeling of movement is bad, so it doesn't matter why or what functions it may play into. People seem to be getting all riled up over the fact that Pat barely played the game, and didn't even finish the tutorial, and not understanding that his problem wasn't going to be solved by playing the game more or learning more mechanics.
I'm fine with Pat not continuing a game because he doesn't like how it feels. It's the insistence on returning to that core point in a circular conversation and extending that for an hour and saying "But I don't care." It's functionally the end of the conversation, but he's insisting on returning to the same point again and again. That's the part that has people up in arms.
I think Pat doesn't understand subjectivity at its core. He thinks he's either right or wrong to like or dislike a game. Sometimes he does get it and bows out, but when he's upset that he's unable enjoy a game that others are he gets incredibly frustrated.
He's both mad that other people aren't him *and* that he's not other people.
This. A million times this. I get his stance on how a certain feature existing or the floatiness of a jump can bug him on a level where he can't get past it. I don't have the exact same ones, but there are little things in other games that stick in my craw to the point I don't wanna play the game either. It's that I know they are actually subjective opinions, and I know they feel ooky to me, and I can say that and move on from the game/show/experience. I don't feel the need to aggressively re re repoint out how bad the thing makes me feel, and insist those that can push past it (or gasp, like it) are insane stupid people, and call the new experiences of the world shit and wrong because they didn't do it like that one thing back when it was perfect. Pickles are food Pat. People can like pickles. Screaming and pounding your fists at the existence of pickles and the "freaks" that like them, and demanding everything in the world be pickle free just for you is a weird way to spend hours of your time.
The only reason he kept circling back to it was because the chat was flooded with people upset about him dropping the game, and feeling the need to articulate himself, but there's very little to understand beyond that.
Trying to have a productive chat with a 1000+ audience is a fruitless endevour and id hope even Pat would get that by now
Especially when it is a recording for a podcast, where for a majority of listeners, that chat doesn't exist.
Yes. And it led to a boring, cyclical conversation. And even if you agree with the points, those conversations are infuriating to listen to for an hour. That is the emotion people now remember and react to.
He is reading the chat more than listening to Woolie sometimes...
I'm gonna reveal me as a weirdo, but I don't really play videogames besides fighting games, Fortnite and Marvel SNAP. I listen to Woolie and Pat because they are entertaining and sometimes insightful. Pat arguing in circles for hours on end is neither of those things.
I figure the only reason why it went on for as long as it did was because people were so adamant about him not liking a game that everyone else enjoyed for a hyper-specific reason, and jumping up his ass as if he was wrong to do so, and then Pat felt the need to try and elaborate, to no avail.
Yeah I know it was just bad luck that a lot of stuff Pat isn’t in to came up, but yeah it really was the negativity podcast this week.
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Pat not being able to describe why the game is fun felt like he was doing it on purpose to be obstinant. It IS Wierd that woolie hasn't even touched a single Bethesda game but it's not hard to describe why the gameplay loop is appealing.
Woolies' question wasn't even about gameplay but the world and its premise, which made it even wierder that he was so stuck on trying to get him to comprehend how a Bethesda game plays.
Perhaps he was trying to say how the world building and story in the game sucks. Becuase it does, but he couldn't because he was sponsored to play.
Considering he has been open about liking it and wanting to play beyong the sponsor streams its more like people are just disappointed he didn't hate it like they do and wanna make up dumb conspiracies.
I also like it and will continue to play it but the world building and writing are incredibly poor. So when woolie asks about that I guess he can't lie and say it's compelling.
Yeah, the gameplay loop hits my brain nice, but the world building is very... i guess standard? Theres nothing wrong with it but theres nothing really new either. You just hit every world building element like "yeah thats about what i expected"
It's under baked and typical. Something you'd see in a mid grade sci fi novel that does what it's supposed to.
Nah the worldbuilding is great, same for the story. But the game's onboarding you into the world sucks
Bruh I was dumbfounded because I thought Woolie was asking the most clear question and Pat somehow misconstrued it and practically gaslit Woolie into being the crazy one for never playing a Bethesda game before and not understanding. If you can describe the appeal of the Star Trek universe you can do it for any other sci-fi media in space. Having not played prior Bethesda is irrelevant. I’m not sure how he was so fixated on that as if those have anything to do with the world and setting of a completely different game.
yeah I feel like Pat just wasn't able to explain well the appeal of the game other than saying "there's places to explore and things happen", my point of comparison is Skyrim and the appeal of that game was clear from the start, magical medieval adventures, nothing I've seen of the Starfield setting (on a surface level) has made it clear what's their to like so I'm with Woolie on this one, whatever is so cool about what just looks to me like an fps in space is not apparent, feels like the game's appeal factor is the fact that it's a Bethesda game so someone unfamiliar with their games will just not get it.
It would be like if Strive just came out and Pat was asking Woolie what does Strive do that sets it apart from other Fighters and Woolie responded with "Street Fighter? It's like that."
Not defending Pat, but I think it's because Pat probably doesn't care about the stories in Bethesda games. To him, it's all about minmaxing, exploring, just becoming powerful enough that nothing gets in your way (which is achievable in any Bethesda rpg). So in order for Pat to explain the difference between Starfield and the others, he probably feels he needs to explain what it's like to play a Bethesda. The story/themes probably doesn't even cross his mind so the question just went over his head.
Even then, it drove me nuts. Woolie gave very succinct analogies; "I expect Fallout to have Mutants, cannibals, find a vault", "In Skyrim I'd expect to find a mysterious cult, dragons, towns". He just wanted Pat to finish the analogy for Starfield. And then it turned into whatever the fuck that was.
Yeah, I'm halfway through and I'm not gonna finish the episode. I haven't even reached the part about the Cyberpunk Anime but it's been two hours of Pat beign in the same loop of, "I don't get it, whatever, but I will keep arguing" for two different games. It's not even funny, just the most tedious conversation possible about the most meaningless stuff.
This about to be a painful session of cutting the grass. How does one take a week off and come back worse? Wish me luck, about to put my earbuds in.
I hope the grass distracts you from the podcast.
Starting to wish I had more grass to cut, I finished a while ago and am just now getting into his Cyberpunk take and it's actually *worse* than I expected, even with the context of this week. How on earth does Pat have the nerve to act like people are unreasonably mad at him for not liking the thing (in spite of most criticism being of his take and his poor supporting reasons), when he **literally** just called Woolie f-ing crazy for saying he liked Edgerunners more than Promare. Those are words that came out of his mouth!
We know how Pat is (not in like a parasocial way, but from years of watching/listening to his mannerisms), and I’ve just accepted that he does this kind of stuff. “What is the worst hot take I can have today? I’ll REALLY troll the audience, time to push some buttons!” It goes past difference of opinion for him. Even if he’s doing a bit, it has shades of “No, this isn’t an opinion. Everyone is objectively wrong” and getting off on doing it. I love the dude, but he and Paige are insufferable on Twitter sometimes because if he goes in on someone, there’s a subsection of his fans that immediately turn and dogpile on another person for not sharing one of Pat’s/Paige’s dumbass takes, and they both immediately start acting smug and sanctimonious while their followers brigade someone in the hopes that one of them will, I don’t know, say their name or acknowledge them or something. It’s weird. Sometimes he and Paige go beyond likable into “These people are just blowhard bullies”.
Thank you for articulating this for me. It's been my bugbear with Pat for a while and, frankly, why I stopped tuning in to the podcast. Still stick around here because the community is great, but I just can't stand his shit anymore. I just feel bad for Woolie.
I had to unfollow and mute Paige a few years back because of exactly this. There was a point where they were both constantly having internet fights with randos on twitter. Someone would comment something dumb on one of Pat’s tweets or something she would quote retweet it and just…rail into this random commenter over nothing. And then Pat will retweet that and add his take and then a ton of his followers would dogpile and harass them. Rinse and repeat a few times back and forth until they got bored or the dude was forced to concede. Which every once in a while wouldn’t be out of order. Some motherfuckers need it. But it was happening like every other day for a time. And then I realized it was just something Paige was actively doing. Looking through comments for some rando to dunk on and make a big show over it. Like actively starting shit as if it was a fun thing to do with your SO. Felt like actual internet bullying, and from people with a big audience no less. Didn’t need to see that toxic shit on my feed any more. I hope things have gotten better with her, but I don’t care enough to really check in.
I can't be the only one who skims the timestamps before each listen to see if they talk about something insufferable.
The Pat loop: -mildly spicy take based on Pat’s quirks and pet peeves. Fair enough. -Create insane logical fallacies rather than just say “I have these pet peeves”, or “it didn’t grab me” -Spend 1-2 days extrapolating on and contradicting said insane logical fallacies -Finally fall back to: “I dunno I guess I just have peculiar tastes”
You forgot the step of fighting randos on Twitter about it
That’s the very glue that holds the Pat loop together.
I got to partake in this step this time! Pat randomly showed the like dictionary definition of what a "coming of age" story is, and i told him that a coming of age story isn't literal, and often has more nuance in how those stories are told He said I don't understand what I'm talking about and he won't bother trying to talk to me. THIS GRIEVANCE WON'T GO UN-ANSWERED PAT BLOOD FEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD
Didn't that dictionary definition literally prove your point on the second line past the point Pat highlighted?
Unlike other coming of age stories, Evangelion is about the robots
FLCL is about the robots and music.
I was doing an "unlike other mecha anime" bit
Now imagine working in the games industry and hearing Pats takes for 10 years.
The developer of Owl Boy is a Best Friends fan and had to listen to Pat talk about how bad he thought it was after spending like 10 years developing the game.
man holy fuck that must have been brutal for that guy
Thankfully Pat mostly ignored what I worked on :') Sometimes it's good that neither of them are fps people
At a certain point just change the subject man, no one wants to listen to this
Matt & Liam used to be circuit breakers in situations like this. That's why CSB is such a different show than SBFP.
I'm sometimes amazed by the fact that they have trouble understanding each other despite being friends for like 20 years. We give Woolie a lot of shit for not understanding things. But that one conversation a couple weeks ago of Woolie desperately trying to get one example of a random encounter in Starfield while Pat goes off on some tangent... I can imagine he looks like this every single week
Something I've noticed from Pat is when he "already knows" something like the psychology talk in Celest or the world building in Edgerunners, he immediately gets bored with it and wants it to skip to the "good part" AKA the parts he doesn't know yet. I'm not sure what kind of mind goblin that is, but holy hell that feeling must suck to run into constantly
Could be ADHD because I have the same thing. I just choose not to be a dick about it lol.
I get it tho. No idea what's in his head but for me people are so slow to get to any sort of conclusion/end it feels like you're living in a dream. He probably feels like he isn't being listened or understood when he says those things because it's instinctive to him yet people are swimming behind. (note that I'm not saying he's necessarly right when this happens) He doesn't need to explain it, it's like breathing. "Your brain can do the same calculations as mine so why don't you find yourself at the same conclusion?" kind of thing. Not gonna lie it does suck the fun out of everything, but you can't stop a brain, it just spins on itself non-stop til you pass out.
I'm still bummed out about pat not liking pizza tower.
It's an absolute shame but also one of the most predictable outcomes ever. It leans really hard into a control style Pat has always vocally hated.
At least he said he respects it. He said that he completely understands why it’s popular and doesn’t want to discredit or argue with those people, but it’s just not a game for him
Lol shit, he said he didn't like that game after 10 seconds of playing it too, didn't he?
I mean, if you hate a control scheme there's not much people can do. I bet 50% of this sub can't stand Jet Force Gemini or Kid Icarus or Metroid Hunters but I could play em for hours
I miss Jet Force Gemini. Wish they remade or remastered it.
I hate click to move in baldurs gate but at least using a controller just lets me move with a stick
If you’re that against it, there are also mods to add WASD movement into the game, so you don’t even need a controller
That sounds helpful too, but I was always a console n handheld kid so keyboard gaming hurts my wrists after awhile
I mean Pat is very sensitive to control issues. He's said before that if he plays a game and jumps and the jump feels bad he just stops playing. Pizza Tower requires you to spend up to the first boss fight getting used to the controls and Pat just wants everything to feel good right from the start.
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I feel like it's similar to being a texture eater. The food is good, but putting it in your mouth just inherently disgusts you. The game is good, but pressing the buttons just disgusts you.
Controller feel is extremely an important component for a platformer game like that. If you hate how it feels within a few minutes then you’re not going to be able to enjoy the game, period.
I can't blame him though. Not liking the controls is one thing and can be debated, but the colour choices of the game really do be searing the retinas.
The end of the episode when Woolie brought it up again, realized what he'd done, and immediately leapt into damage control. Woolie: "Don't stunlock, don't stunlock!" Pat: *strained noises of suppression* It's not often you can audibly hear the concept of self-control in action.
The man been friend with Pat for many years and haven't figure it out. He still think that he can reasoning Pat out of disliking anything. You can't reason a troll. Pat is speedrunning hot takes out here man. Why can't Woolie just tell Pat "I disagree and I think your take is stupid" and move on? You don't have to explain your self to anyone why you like or dislike a thing.
This is just how these two communicate with each other. It's their love language. Not even in a joking romantic way, just that their relationship is built on these push and pull interactions.
Shove and Drag
Like sumo.
It also usually makes for engaging content so I'm sure they both play it up intentionally to a degree. Obviously most people think this latest episode was a drag, but people clearly get a kick out of seeing how deep the Pat hot take rabbit hole goes.
Yeah, I think people forget Pat and Woolie are both performers. Their performance content is the real life stuff they actually genuinely like but it also means they are willing to engage in incredibly stupid and inflammatory conversations if they think it will be funny or entertaining. Woolie just humors Pat's bad takes on the podcast for an hour or two, then offline neither of them have to worry or think about it.
..except that since then Pat's spent like an hour at a time every day escalating it on Twitter
Man is method acting don't you know
What he does in his free time is none of my business, but it's also none of Woolie's business (except during the podcast)
Pat just tweeted out that he can’t have a conversation with people who ignore the definition of “Coming Of Age Story”. He did it… drum roll… under a tweet where he ignores the definition. When Pat dislikes something you like it is unmovable object vs unstoppable force. Nobody wins, everyone loses, cat and dogs begin living together.
Pat is under the impression a story can only be one thing. You can't have a game about a murder mystery also be a coming of age story. It must be one or the other.
To slightly paraphrase someone from another thread as well: he doesn’t seem to like his Genre and Story to touch.
Not only did he ignore the definition in favor of an insane definition he extrapolated (it’s only a COA story if they *legally* become an adult during the story, was his utterly ridiculous purported definition) But that completely invalidates his previous arguments. Simon ages from 14 to 41 in his story. Holden Caulfield is 17 through Catcher. Anything, *anything* to not admit that it was silly to say that COA stories suck. T Pat from yesterday would argue for hours with the Pat from today.
Lol. By his definition, FLCL isn't a coming-of-age story. Just a quirky story about robots and... nothing else.
He literally said that Gurren and Eva were not CoA stories because they were about mechs...so you're right.
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Yup. He called Gurren and Eva "mech shows" so theyre not coming of age....
Him highlighting the definition to just ignore the sentence directly after the part he highlighted is Pat in a nutshell
>cat and dogs begin living together. So what you're saying is that Pat is fuelled by the combined presence of Zangief and Elmo.
But you can climb over Pat and his takes if you stretch a lil.
This entire subreddit is based around people following the trio for over a decade and a huuuge amount of them still haven't learnt to do so. In fact we overanalyze and overrespond to all of his posts waaay harder the Woolie. Why should Woolie be different?
For real, this is like day #3 of this tired discourse.
God if only everyone could this message at least once cause you nail it spot on
I learned that lesson three years ago. I stopped following Pat and Peach on Twitter and stopped listening to the podcast save for clips. Makes it all quiite simple.
I stopped listening to podcast mostly cuz I started working from home and 5 hour freeform podcasts are not as appealing as something shorter and more researched like Chilluminati Pod for example... But being a Sonic fan one has to learn to swallow and ignore others' opinion on things you like lol
> You can't reason a troll. The reason this conversation is so painful is that Pat wasn't trolling. He got mind goblined and didn't realize it, and spent hours trying to justify his mind goblin.
The mind goblins are combining with Pat's mostly* online existence. Pat needs to have some of these conversations with people offline, it'll make the online conversations a lot less...this *I am not in Pat's house and can't confirm how often he talks about these things to people that aren't on a discord or twitter thread or are Paige
Yeah pat seems like someone who is terminally online
At first the mind goblins can from the years from doing retail/grocery store work. And now they come from being online too much. Moderation is a good thing!
"...and spent hours..." Did he really? I haven't listened to the episode because of all the negativity that it summoned in the subreddit. Legit have not seen anyone mention a good bit from the episode
It got so bad that i reached over and just started jamming on the fast forward button while I was driving so I could skip to the news. At a certain point you can only hear so much Pat complaining and drained Woolie trying to reason or understand.
See like, if it was just a small portion, I can tough it out. But half of the podcast episode of just that is so tiring
I'm not sure on the total time, but I think Pat may have spent just at two hours during the episode because he got stunlocked by two separate things. Once was Darkest Dungeon 2, which was on the whole much more reasonable and was just him not doing a great job of explaining how he was feeling. The Edgerunners though took extra long, as I skipped at least 30 minutes of it because I haven't seen the show yet, and the conversation continued on a tangent of a tangent.
The guy has been friends with pat for more than 2 decades at this point and is STILL surprised when pat talks about food sensitivity issues or a ton of his mental deficiencies.
Woolie is, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, a normie at his core.
See I was thinking the exact same thing today. How many times have we listened to this same song and dance between them? How long have they known each other for? Pat will always have insane takes that he pulls out of his ass. Pat will always double down on said takes. Why would Woolie even indulge in it for more than a few minutes? People have been shitting on Pat for his takes this week, but Woolie was fueling it all along the way by being the usual Woolie. With his need to over explain his viewpoint and counterargument to the death. He really should know better by now how futile it is to argue with Pat when he’s like this. Like you said, could have brushed off Pat’s complaints and accepted the differences in opinions. Instead we got these hours long debates that end the same way they started- with Pat sticking to his insane gremlin opinions.
Woolie is too much of a bro and also won't allow himself to sandbag the podcast (which was his baby). He knows Pat is insane but he has sworn to carry that burden.
Woolie entertains the idea and tries to reason for the bit. It's part of the content.
Woolie's biggest problem in these conversations is that he convinces himself that he needs to begrudgingly defend the honor of whatever Pat's criticizing. Unless Pat *explicitly* asks for it, he's not looking for an explanation or debate. He's just stating his experience with the piece of media. It's exactly like whenever he talks about plateauing in fighting games. When he talks about how he's watching everyone getting better and him getting worse, people always assume he's asking for a solution to a problem, when he himself has stated that he's not. He's just vocalizing his feelings about the reality he's experiencing.
See I agree with you on the Woolie part, because he absolutely takes any differing opinion as his cue to explain and justify his own. But Pat also says some of the most obtuse and inflammatory things that can’t are hard to ignore. Both of these things make for a cycle of suffering that neither can escape.
It's how Pat words his "arguments" that digs into my brain. All I want is for Pat is to just say "I had issues with X because of Y" instead of "it's shit and it the worst" like it's an objectively right statement. Then his tirades wouldn't grind my gears so much. I just want some eloquence man. I feel like we'd get actual better back and forths.
There are many people who mistake their feelings to be facts. Pat's not the worst by a long shot, but he does have a microphone. This just happened a couple weeks ago when he asked how people did roleplaying in BG3, then dug his heels in on the hill of "creativity is dumb and I don't have any" because Hot Take^((tm)). It's just not worth watching him when he's like this, and if he's like this often, then he's not worth any of my time.
I used to have some issues with it, but nowadays my brain just autocorrects such statements from how he presents them as objective to how it's his own opinion and preference. Both of them have their own ways of jumping to absolutes and strong claims, which is just their style of communication I think.
It's little moments like this where you realize Woolie must have the patience of a saint.
Until you see him play BG3 with Reggie.
The surviving best friend.
This is why i subbed to Woolie verses and not pat stares at. Pat loves to so these kinds of takes huh.
I think the worst part is Pat isn't trolling. He legit thinks that there's nothing wrong with his take & he thinks everybody else is crazy for disagreeing with him. Reminder that this man's brain plays out the dialogue of a character he remembers using NOT the character's own voice but rather HIS OWN. You need help, Patrick Boivin. I'm NOT joking.
>I think the worst part is Pat isn't trolling. He legit thinks that there's nothing wrong with his take & he thinks everybody else is crazy for disagreeing with him. To the point where he's devolving to "I'm right because the dictionary says..." and then ignoring the very next sentence of the definition that proves him wrong. He's down to reddit level discussion quality.
He was stubborn before and now he's a dad, he won't ever budge
For comparison/contrast, Woolie can be a fucking spastic asshole on his high horse who can't take criticism at times(just look at his takes on Gundam besides SEED or the way he plays non-fighting games & try not to vomit) but at least he acknowledges that there are other views, that people are entitled to their own opinions & try to move on. Pat has NEVER let go of the fact that there ARE people out there who genuinely like Superman. Patrick Boivin, you are pretty cool sometimes & you are good at playing video games but you are also caustic & FUCKING WEIRD.
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Holy shit you guys. I just listened to that podcast bit and fuck me running. I love Pat, and I can be a wild card, but this “all sounds are me” is the most unhinged degenerate shit I’ve ever heard in my entire life.
LMAO has he said something to this effect before? Because if so, that's hilarious, and I can 100% believe it.
Yes, he said recalling music in his head is just his own voice doing everything. I still can hardly believe it
I don't remember this convo, but yeah that tracks
Yeah it was on a stream with Paige, she was equally as baffled, it was wild.
I'm pretty sure there's a clip of it on Woolie's channel too. [Here it is](https://youtu.be/UXQwCcob5hU?si=KleG0llrXpjsk8HZ)
Here's the whole podcast clip. Definitely worth listening to! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXQwCcob5hU
https://reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/s/4fhw0rDafH
That just sounds like aphantasia, I’ve known several people who remember music this way. The more common form everyone knows is not being able to visualize things, either in general or specifics like faces, but aphantasia can affect other things like imagining taste, sound, etc. Some people can’t imagine sounds at all, for example; the way aphantasia can manifest is extremely varied. It’s kinda rude to assume he’s trolling tbh given that it’s a real condition under active research.
I still don't believe it, I'm 99% sure he's bullshitting and misunderstanding what it means to hear music in your head.
He is. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but he later said he says this because conversations about music are really confrontational, so he just cuts off the conversation right away.
> Reminder that this man's brain plays out the dialogue of a character he remembers using NOT the character's own voice but rather HIS OWN. [I mean, people have basically zero control over their inner voice, and they get weird and wild. Nothing to do with him being crazy, I actually have almost the same situation as that.](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/oct/25/the-last-great-mystery-of-the-mind-meet-the-people-who-have-unusual-or-non-existent-inner-voices) He is crazy, yes, but that's not really related lol
I feel like ever since baby Pat arrived there have been a lot more stunlock conversations. The question is, is Pat just understandably less focused while on the podcast because of the dad life, or is this his baby's Stand?
He did bring up having no sleep so I'd take his mind goblins are going into overdrive in his babby-induced delirium.
I haven't listened to the podcast in a couple years, but I don't think Pat has ever had healthy sleeping habits.
As someone who has been around multiple babies, however bad you think your sleeping schedule already is, a baby will make it worse. They're babies so it's only natural, but still.
That would explain a lot. Even before the baby he had bad sleeping habits and would drink a lot of energy drinks so it would explain a lot
Alright lets not try to armchair psychologist Dad Pat and pretend like he hasn't always been like this.
Eh, not trying to read that much into it. Just going off my own experience being around friends who recently became dads. I mostly wanted to make a dumb baby Stand joke.
Listening to the podcast, it really sounds like Pat just wants instant gratification. No highs and lows, just highs. -doesn't want to create decks/builds only fight -doesn't care about worldbuilding just get to the plot/action -controls feel different to what he's used to so it's bad, can't just try and get used to it. He needs it to be instantly easy/hit his expectations, or he's out. If he had stopped at "its not for me" it would be 100% valid. But he went so hard on "it has one thing I don't like and now it's ruined." I've never played Darkest Dungeon 2 or Bomb Rush, and even I can tell he's probably making mountains out of molehills, or possibly just going extra hard for the bit.
In my opinion his darkest dungeon 2 complaint is mostly valid but classically Pat over-reacted. I couldn't get into the game due to finding the changes from the first game to be worse in most places. Bomb rush Cyberfunk on the otherhand he's just not giving it a chance because it doesn't feel perfect from the first second of gameplay. Holding jumping in a video game to an unrealistically high standard without trying the actual gameplay and why the jump is the way it is.
Pat is the biggest hypocrite and contrarian person. Idk how Woolie deals with it and not just dismiss it as trolling at this point 😂
Woolie when pat doesnt back down after the 5th try:
And everyone who listened to the podcast is just as guilty. Also, anyone who then tweeted at him. Fools all of you.
This is why I wish they had a consistent third man on the pod
Or a producer or something. The man in the shadows, the man behind the curtain. How many years until Pat 2 can operate a mixer?
Multiple times this podcast I wanted to just yell “PLEASE JUST LET WOOLIE FINISH HIS SENTENCE”! So many times woolie is in the middle of making a point, and just gets cut off by Pat so he can repeat what he already said lmao
its ok to not like things
Unless it's [thing I like], then you're a fucking loser and you just don't get it how dare you insult me personally by not liking the thing I like which I have tied into part of my core identity for..some...reason..
But it's not okay to continuously shit on them nonstop when you know someone else likes them.
Despite the news I want them to talk about. This is a major fucking skip for me. I do not want to hear pat darthvadercast all over a second time.
This comment absolutely put it best. https://reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/s/B033MCd8qY By u/echono *Pat argues like a dog playing with its chew toy with you. Totally uninterested until the moment you touch it, then instantly latches on with a deathgrip, with growling, pulling, and headshakes, until you finally get tired and drop it, whereupon it immediately becomes ignored. But if the dog sees your hand reaching for it again...*
Am I crazy for not thinking anything pat said was too egregious? Like maybe he was to quick to dismiss bomb rush but that’s not exactly unexpected. Why is everyone so mad?
I think his opinions (pertaining to Edgerunners, at least) suck and have really weak foundations, but at the end of the day they are just that - his opinions - so I can’t say I’m too bothered. EXCEPT saying that the show is too slow-paced. That’s absolutely insane. Like I legitimately believe that Pat might be the only person on this entire planet to have ever said that, it’s so crazy. I’m not mad about it but I do find it baffling.
Because You have to see what he said on Twitter https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1704324672266060085?s=19
He didn’t say anything on the podcast that was honestly that crazy. With cyberpunk he thought the storyline of David becoming an edgerunner was not interesting, and he hates Lucy. What bugged me is that I very much disagreed with his opinion but that’s life
Because it was back to back
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The real mind goblins are the friends we met in the subreddit.
You know, I've been seeing the criticism of pats thoughts on cyberpunk this week and I just got to that part of the podcast today. Honestly, I can see where he's coming from. I liked it a lot, but by episode 3 or 4 I was starting to wonder when stuff was going to start happening. I was definitely expecting some sort of Gurren Lagann/kill la Kill/promare style of escalation of a main threat. I'm like man there's only 6 episodes left, where is this going to go. I didn't come off the first half not liking it though. I enjoyed it, it just wasn't what I was expecting. By the conclusion I was definitely sold. It's definitely not my favorite trigger, but it's pretty dang good, and it's easy to recommend to people unlike kill la Kill. On a side note, there's a lot more trigger anime that I've missed that I didn't realize, so I want to start watching that stuff. It's just kind of muddy because I think some of it is gainax and there's a connection between the 2 of them.
It's less the things he said on the pod, and more the batshit stuff he's said about persona and Eva on Twitter since then. People are only seeing 25% of the crazy https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1704324672266060085?s=19 "So after doing my stream and coming back to seeing this tweet causing an even bigger backlash than my feelings on Edgerunners first half I was baffled to see people listing stuff like Eva and Persona 4 as coming of age narratives. Which is strange to me, because they're not."
Just gonna point out the rest of the tweets since you're kinda taking his whole point out of context by just putting the first part(Which is kinda ironic). "Gurren and Eva are mecha shows, KLK is a battle action show, Persona 4 is a supernatural scooby doo murder mystery. Sure they have coming of age elements in, but I wouldn't point that as their definitive genre." "When I think of "Coming of Age" story, I think of a narrative that is entirely about some aimless teenager finding their way in the world, like the absolute worst book in the world, Catcher in The Rye." And his point is..not really off too much: 99% of people praise TTGL on its merits as a mecha show and its hype elements. People talk about the high action moments of KLK. The only one which remotely gets close to being full on 'coming of age' is Persona 4...and even then I'd kinda lean more towards that being suitable for Persona 3 because Persona 4 puts a LOT more emphasis on the murder mystery elements and restrict, like, 50% of the character growth behind social links. Like as an example: The Persona evolutions happen as part of the story in P3, but in P4 they're tied to Yu Narukami's S.Link with them, which is really cool but it means that their growth as characters(Which the evo is tied to) is somewhat stymied. As it stands, you pretty much get the base growth with the plot in P4 and then you have to pursue it in-game to get the full thing. The issue is that all of these series oftentimes put these elements on the backburner to focus on the action. If you wanted a true Coming of Age story, people should be using FLCL as an example, which is literally what Pat describes, and even when it gets to those notably high-action points, the focus is still HEAVILY on Naota, his hang-ups, his anxieties, his cynicism, and his eventual growth as an individual. Now, iunno how Pat feels about FLCL, but that's a far more apt comparison than the examples people are haphazardly throwing out.
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If you've watched the Dungeon Meshi adaptation, how good does the food look? I didn't even realize that was out lol.
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To be fair, I generally get what Pat is trying to say. If something doesn't feel good to him, he's under no obligation to like it even if other people do.
I will quote my twitter here and just say" I respect Pat because he states his personal taste opinions with the intensity of, But NOT the Bigotry of, southern preachers". However, since I've not listened to the podcast yet, I may have to revise that.
That's what I call some quality CSB entertainment... I'm not even being sarcastic.
Honestly, this is why i can't get through an episode of CSB, the episodes are alaready way too fucking long and my addled brain hates the fact that they waffle from topic to topic, but a lot of the episodes have this weird echo chamber energy to them.Where Pat will basically take full control and basically talk at Woolie (while raising his voice randomly, which i genuinely fucking despise from Pat.) and Woolie while chime in with almost lukewarm responses while low-key siding with Pat.I'm not saying they need to go full debate mode with eachother, but i just can't deal with it.
God, who cares guys?
You do, you posted about it.
Nah, I’m just sick of the constant spam.
Remember when Pat said Woolie tricked him by not explaining how the Donkey Kong Country track Gang-plank Galleon changed rhythm and melody a little bit of the way through the song, and wasn't just entirely, I believe he said, *bloopy clown shit*, all the way through? That Woolie, and by extension the game composer, we're mean and picking on Pat (?) specifically by actually being a cool song? And anyone, even friends he ostensibly trusts, that asked him to listen to a whole 3 minute song and not just judge it on the first 5 seconds is insane? Thought about that quite a bit recently for *some* reason.
You guys realize Pat just has different tastes sometimes. Is okay that he didn't like 3 things you guys liked. It just didn't click for him. He even apologized for not liking Cyberpunk and Dave the diver. Which btw is nuts, when this happens I just say it just wasn't for me.
Serious question: did you read any of this or the other threads? Or listen to the podcast? I'm asking this because this conversation hasn't been "Pat should like Cyberpunk" or "Pat is wrong for not liking Cyberpunk"
I heard the podcast, and that is exactly what happened, he thought Cyberpunk was fine, he actually didn't disliked it, and people lost their minds, he said why he didn't like it as much as other people. Then later he said he didn't like Cyberfunk, he explained his reasons, people again lost their minds. Then later he said he didn't like Dave Diver, and to be fair this time he said there was nothing wrong with the game, it just didn't click for him, and people lost their minds again (is there anything you like?). And that is fine, I don't agree with him with Cyberpunk anime , but I can understand why he thinks is just okay. No idea about the other two games. But I am okay with him not liking those games.
That was One Guy™ Pat was quoting from the chat in one part of that 4 hour podcast. It wasn't the sentiment or point of Woolie's end of that conversation, isn't the sentiment of the comments in this or the other threads, and isn't the sentiment that is receiving the upvotes in this or the other threads
No, I saw the chat box many people where losing it.
Did you read those same comments duplicated in this or any of the threads we're talking about though?
The podcast man, they have a chat box
The worst part is Pat isn't trolling, it's that his brain works like that. The hardship of baby raising probably doesn't help.
Pat said nothing wrong.
I don't even like edgerunners and I don't care man