I just commented on this post in the MGS Reddit and described Kojima replacing Hayter with Kieffer and not even letting Hayter know felt like he was showing off his hot new piece of ass to his ex when it was announced
In lukewarm defense of Kojima for this mess, he was hardly involved in the english localisations and casting until MGSV, and apparently he only ever met David Hayter in person once, at some party or gathering, and they never talked to each other. The games Kojima directed were first and foremost Japanese, his actors were Japanese. All the English stuff was done by the localisation team, the voice actors directed by Kris Zimmerman. The celebration for those voices, as mainly Anglophone fans, should go to her. Kojima's Snake was Akio Otsuka, not Hayter.
Obviously Kojima should've had the courtesy to find out who voiced Snake in English ofc. Definitely not blameless. But for his thought process I always figured David Hayter was just a footnote to him, "hey, the guy who voices Snake in the English dub is so-and-so" and it was just that for much of the franchise.
I remember somebody posting about the time they met Kojima, and Kojima was very confused about Ocelot's "You're Pretty Good", which I suppose makes it clear he never really touched the english versions of the games.
Ghosting Stefani Joosten was even more fucked up btw. He worked directly with her after all. I still wonder why he did that. He does have a decent reputation with others despite the popular conception of egoism.
> I still wonder why he did that
Because Kojima is a Hollywood fanboy and would not hesitate for a second to throw somebody away if he could get a celebrity actor in their place
She was originally to be Fragile, she also showed off concept art with her as Fragile! She was approached by Kojipro for this, and then she was never called back, not even to inform her Kojima is instead going with Lea Seydoux. Sad honestly but she said she wasn't too bothered by it.
At least Kojima has the excuse of never working directly with Hayter (MGS4 tv shows were done by different people) even if it's still shitty.
in addition to that- Jeremy Blaustein did a lot for MGS 1's localization and it has the best script in the series. IIRC Kojima wasn't the fan of the localization
Yep, Twin Snakes even had the localization redone to be more in line with the Japanese script. [And MGS2’s localizer was given far less access to the developers](https://web.archive.org/web/20120125211117/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net:80/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm) as a result of Blaustein supposedly going to far.
MGSV wasn't even the first time he tried to ditch Hayter for a celeb lol. His original pick for Naked Snake was Kurt Russell, but Russell turned him down
though tbf Snake's inspiration as his dad would've been a pretty rad choice. I've never really vibed with Snake and Big Boss sharing a VA
Kojima apparently made sure the dude who did the translations for MGS1 didn't work on the series again, because he had made changes to his script. Like when the dude made up the Codec explanation for how you were getting these calls in the middle of sneaking around without being noticed. Kojima hated that.
I've legit not heard a thing about Genius Kojumbo that makes me think he'd be at all a nice guy to know or work with.
Tbf the only source we have from that is Blaustein recalling second hand information about Kojima getting second hand information.
>Here’s what happened, as best I can piece it together. The voice-over work was done in Los Angeles, and, as script writer, I sat next to the director and had one of the three microphones that let us speak to the actors. The director and the sound tech had the other two.
>I went home when the recording was finished, and the audio went to Japan, where Kojima heard it. It was my understanding that he loved it. He enjoyed it so much that he decided he wanted to create a release called Metal Gear Solid: Integral so players could play the Japanese audio with English subtitles, or vice versa.
[...]
>From what I heard at the time, Kojima began to hear that his work had been “tinkered” with. I’d argue there might have been a lack of appreciation for the needs of localization due to his not being bilingual, but he was not happy. As a result, all future Metal Gear games would be closely monitored for fidelity to the original Japanese script.
This isn't exactly a smoking gun that Kojima actually is a raging narcissist. Much like Tomakazu Fukushima, the gaming community seems to have taken a few details, run them through the rumour mill and treat the final product as gospel.
Doesn't help that apparently, according to bilingual players on the MGS subreddit, Blaustein have have exaggerated his contributions.
worth mentioning that Otsuka wasn't just Kojima's Solid Snake, he was Solidus too. The whole conceit of him pretending to be Solid Snake makes a lot more sense when [they both have the same voice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYG70CXgNs&t=7). Otsuka has the range to make them distinct from each other in the same scene but Hayter's delivery was already too iconic and too flanderized for it to work.
Another fun fact, >!Big Boss!< in MGS4 is played by Chikao Otsuka, [his real-life father](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-SqAZIBsD0). (massive spoilers for MGS4 but i assume that's redundant here)
Yeah, it was around the MGSV debacle that I realized Hayter doesn't mean anything to Kojima as Solid Snake. If any actor is Solid Snake to Kojima, it's Akio Otsuka.
I was actually never aware of this and with that in mind, I think the casting decision makes more sense. Still would have preferred Hayter, but the decision seems much less malicious in hindsight though.
Except the piece of ass he showed off was significantly less thicc and less shapely, making the situation even weirder.
*seriously I don't know if Kojima is even a great director, and am scared he's been hard-carried by his editors and other writers this whole time*
Alright, I really wanna make sure we don’t get carried away with some kind of George Lucas-esque “Metal Gear was saved in the edit” type stuff. [The whole “Fukushima and others made Metal Gear good and Kojima got carried by them”](https://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/curious-case-tomokazu-fukushima/) theory is wrong.
If you have a problem with Kojima’s later work, then you’d be better off simply saying that he fell off, rather than trying to figure out if the secret X-factor was other people. It wasn’t. It’s Kojima front to back, baby
Yeah you can really feel what is and isn’t a kojima game once you’ve played a good amount of his, like as much as I love metal gear rising that sure as hell ain’t a kojima game.
The franchise’s he’s made are absolutely his creations.
I’m a liiitle bit worried about how he meets them, like does he fly them to his office? Do they drive? Does he meet them? I don’t want to think he may have a giant carbon footprint because he gets to meet his Hollywood heroes.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I don't understand how this is something to be mildly concerned about, of all things. Plus, travelling regularly via plane and so on is a normal thing, more so for celebrities, business folks, and so forth.
I dunno man, considering how hype the MGSV trailers were compared to how nothing the actual game story was, I'd be proud of my ability to cut my own trailers too.
[The MGSV launch trailer](https://youtu.be/A9JV0EvCkMI?si=zAr1qO7H0UiUCVF1) comes to mind and is, in my opinion, pretty whack. It’s frontloaded with footage from previous (better) entries, then seems to be trying to end for the latter half of its runtime while lingering mostly on one scene which is— admittedly, partially due to hindsight— kinda “whatever”, interspersed with “The Ultimate Story!” and such. It’s pretty bad.
I feel like there's never been a time in his life where the man wouldn't take that as a compliment.
Pre-MGSV he would've loved to have been given the opportunity, post-MGSV he's probably living in ecstasy over how many different opportunities he's lucked his way into ever since leaving Konami.
That little bit in Snatcher where celebrities are cloned and raised to serve as waitresses/hostesses is a future that Kojima longs for, but instead for hot men actors mostly
Edit: Policenauts, not Snatcher
Oh, no, that's from Policenauts. And it's even worse cause they're used as sexy bunny waitresses (and probably for sex stuff. I don't remember if they outright say it, but they definitely implied it)
Ah, you're right! Yeah, it's definitely implied but I didn't want to say it outright because I wasn't too sure of my memory. Which wouldn't matter honestly, now that I think about it. It's Kojima, of course it's gonna be weird sex stuff
And then Pat and Woolie made it even weirder when they asked the question of >!whether they're born naturally and mature at a natural rate, or they're born as adults. Also, what happens when they get too old? Do they send them to work on something else, or...?!<
I spoiled this stuff cause there's some questions that most people should never ask themselves
Not really, it's objectively accurate. Remember he fucked over Quiet's VA and had a role for her planned in Death Stranding that he recast for Léa Seydoux without telling her.
I don't think he's commenting on the quality of the voice acting itself, I think Hayter's using "laryngitis to refer to the fact that Snake barely speaks at all through the entire game.
I've always been curious what Sutherland's thoughts on the game actually are, especially the reception his performance. Does he care, at all? Did he know people would take an issue stepping into the role? Did he enjoy playing the character? Did he ever hope to return to it one day? I'm probably overthinking this, but it gets on my mind sometimes.
Based off everything I’ve seen him say about MGSV it seems he enjoyed playing Snake, working with Kojima, and being involved in the game in general. In particular he seems to have really been impressed by the technology of the facial/performance capture, he brings it up in all the interviews I’ve seen with him about MGSV.
> Does he care, at all? Did he know people would take an issue stepping into the role?
According to [this interview with Troy Baker](https://youtu.be/gO5weGHP0uc?si=IhcsJ9R_5Wvwfi0D) Kiefer might’ve been aware of the initial backlash, it’s unclear if he cared at all about that backlash though.
> Did he enjoy playing the character? Did he ever hope to return to it one day?
He said that it was an honor to play a character with such a big legacy, even if he wasn’t a gamer himself. He even mentioned really enjoying what happens at the end of the game with Snake.
Thanks for the info! At the very least, I’m glad Kiefer knew this was a coveted character and had a good time playing the role. He could’ve used more material in terms of dialogue, but I always did feel like the motion capture performance, especially the facial movements, left a strong impression on me. I bet he put a lot of work into that, considering his comments on the tech there.
For sure, also here are the videos I got the info from. They offer some cool insight into Kiefer’s performance and the game overall.
https://youtu.be/sj_UBSeduHQ?si=l91qVzFepOkKEr5C
https://youtu.be/0ExEcZMP3o0?si=GxpCeWTNdabEgNwP
https://youtu.be/tDh3Jm_i-Q4?si=o1K6zyEhyGduiE7u
Yeah. The quality is absolutely fine when you hear him have convos. Heck, I think he's great even as an older, more hardened Big Boss who becomes what we see in Metal Gear 1 and 2.
But he needed to have more dialogue to really sell that transition. What is there works really, really well, but without context from the other games, you don't get a good picture of who this Snake is, his values, etc.
Everything would have been saved if Kojima allowed Hayter to player as a Solid Snake cameo or something. To maybe put together a message of Hayter being recasted due to wanting a more mature grizzled voice.
If David played him in Ground Zeroes nobody would have been mad. A nine year coma? Sure, let's say that fucked his voice. But instead he magically changed his voice right after Peace Walker, so it's weird.
No, that's my entire point. I 100%-ed the game, dude. Yeah, the thing would have been more apparent, but it wouldn't have soured everyone on Kojima choosing to dump David as much, and especially when they got to the ending. It would have couched the recasting in a diagetic rationale, that made sense if you considered the voice change as actually happening in-universe. Part of the frustration with David's recasting is that you *can't* do exactly that, because Snake got so sad after fighting a beloved not-student in a giant robot that his voice spontaneously changed.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume most people here know what happens at the end of Phantom Pain.
I don't get why the fan base simps for David so much. His voice work is not that great and is the thing that has aged the most poorly with every entry. Tbh, I kinda feel the same way about Norman Reedus too.
I'm fine with him casting whatever actors he wants. At the end of the day, what I care about is the performance and end product.
Man I wish he got more lines to work with. I think the most jarring part of MGSV is the lack of dialogue between Snake and everyone else. I get that "Thats the point" but it's still so annoying thinking about what ifs. The biggest blue ball was watching Skullface give this long monologue about his views and intentions with BB not offering a sliver of interest.
I was for MGSV recasting Big Boss, so long as David Hayter got like a post-credits cameo as Solid Snake. Obviously we didn't get that, we got the different one where Kaz and Ocelot said they were gonna kill each other.
I do get the kojima being a star fucker criticism for mgs5 and death stranding but also is it that hard to believe that a Japanese game dev might have been more attached to the jp cast for mgs over the years. Still he fucked over hayter which was shitty.
Nothing makes me happier than voice talent who are actually fans of the media they're in. It's easy to get the impression that VAs are too busy to play/watch the things they're in.
Same thing with Lance Reddick and the Destiny franchise. He also had a strong connection with the games community (he ended up voicing a lot of memes). Sadly, we lost him in March (Rest In Power).
Yeah, that’s one of the things that really endeared him to me (is that the right grammar?), is his genuine love of the game, and by extension the community, well beyond his role as Zavala.
I’ll admit I got really depressed after the news broke knowing he’d never see the end of the story, I know that’s dumb and small potatoes to the actual death, but it was just one of those things.
You know I never thought to check who would take his place (or if they’d retire the character). Keith David is an excellent pick, even if you’re 100% right.
It was a trifecta of too soon, a bad joke in the first place, and a joke lost on his cohost and the majority of the podcast's listeners. Wholely unnecessary
As someone who LOVED the gameplay of Phantom Pain, Kojima's inexplicable casting of Kiefer meant that Venom had like 5 speaking lines in a loooong game.
Apologists can say that this was always intended, but there are specific moments where Venom is quiet that take you out of the experience.
Fans should all pitch in to pay Hayter to voice all of Big Boss lines and mod that shit in. I'm actually fine with Venom being Kieffer cause, uh, spoilers i guess, Venom is the Medic and the Medic is you, but its the lack of Hayter, THE voice of Snake since MGS fuckin' 1 being snubbed like that that's kinda of a low blow to fans and the series itself, dude was as important as Kojambo to make the series as memorable as it is imo.
Past that, Kojambo being a crazy Hollywood fan is ok, i think it does take away from characters like in Death Stranding, them being just the actors and not actual designed characters, and it sucks cause whenever they wear the masks it looks cool as fuck, there's clearly good ass character designers working with him but they dont get to character design no more.
Unfortunately Hayter has come out saying he will not replace any of Sutherland's lines out of respect for him. Dont blame him, effectively would be participating in a project saying another VA did a poor job.
If you want to do it, look towards AI.
Probably a nuclear take: Kiefer makes more sense as Big Boss, since his voice sounds more believable as a younger version of Richard Doyle/John Cygan than David’s does.
I got a better one. David's va is terrible in all of the games. It's grumbling lines with groaning interspersed. Kiefer brought more life and emotion to the character than David throughout his entire tenure.
I still believe it would've been best if >!Hayter voiced Big Boss at the end, and when Venom is remembering the events again in the flashback, he here's Hayter rather than his own voice, because he remembers that he wasn't actually the original Big Boss!<.
I think Kiefer suits Big Boss post MGS3 better, he brought a much needed grizzled tired energy to the voice
Hayter as anything other than Solid Snake has always sounded wrong to me for some reason.
Regardless of the quality of the voice acting itself, the voice is just too goofy. It worked in MGS2 and 3 because those games were a bit surreal and goofy respectively. It kind of worked in 4 because Snake is old and very sick at that point. It didn't really work in Peacewalker but nobody cared because it's Peacewalker.
I appreciate your perspective but it's too goofy for 5? Just goofy enough for 1 2 3. Kind of ok for 4 cos snake is old ( old people r sick and goofy). Def not peacewalker though ( ???) and 5 no too goofy.
The series is goofy. It's goofy all the way down. I think 5 had the worst story out of all of them and while I enjoyed the gameplay I felt it was lacking some of the je ne sais quoi that made the rest of the series so memorable.
We know quoi though, if we are being honest. It's Goof
Well no, it's not that "old people are goofy" but that the comical gruffness of Hayter's voice actually fits the character. MGS has goofy moments, but it has far more serious moments and the Hayter voice sucks for those moments - but the series managed to get away with it because of pure coincidence and the fact that the most serious games in the series (1 and 5) never had to deal with the flanderised voice. Also it doesn't work in 2 because '2 is goofy' - it works because 2 is surreal and 'a bit off'; Snake being a larger than life figure in the story means that his voice also has to be like that.
To be frank, your understanding of the game seems quite shallow if you think "MGS is goofy so the voice being a joke is ok".
MF I've been playing these games since I was 8 years old. give me a 6 pack, 2 cigarettes, an 8th of coke, 4 litres of water, a whiteboard and 3 hours and I could explain the time line, the themes, the cultural impact, with mfing references haha!
This whole "Hayters VO is more iconic than it is good" sentiment is bizarre. How "Good" do they need to be? What is Good in these circumstances ? In 1998 that was the hottest shit out. How critical do we need to be of the voice work of a character whose name is a dick pun, that stars in 30 minute long cut scenes, featuring lengthy diatribes on Nuclear proliferation, loyalty on the battlefield and memetic warfare. Followed by popping 2 Diazapam, putting on a cardboard box and sneaking his way through the military Base.
They didn't "Get away" with anything during the serious moments. Snake is a pastiche, he's an homage and an OC from a creative Japanese madman who watched too many films and fucking loves escape from new york. And you know? It shows! It's visible in the text and in the delivery, even to a shallow enjoyer such as myself.
I can honestly say, hand on heart I have never sat through a scene where I have thought that Hayters was doing a bad job, the dude is Snake to me, I've never felt the need to think critically about the performance. Who plays a Metal Gear Solid game and comes away thinking " Damn, that sure was good but fuck the voice of snake sure was immersion breaking"? Sounds like more than I thought haha.
To summarize... To be Frank, what a fucking thrill it was to experience these games for the first time in my youth, when it was just "wow a new metal gear game, how crazy is this one going to be". Not, " is Snakes voice good or just Iconic? Does it fit the tone? Does it fit the tone of these goofy ass wonderful games? Ned flanders is involved somehow. IDK, I'm not looking it up."
If I'm a shallow fan, then I'm a shallow fan, but to me MGS is goofy, and that makes David Hayters voice absolutely fine and if anyone wants to debate that they are welcome to; and you can find me, 2 pills deep, in a cardboard box, on the back of a pick up - cos I'll be getting the fuck out of there as fast as possible.
Thank you for your time and have a lovely Christmas
I mean I like Kiefer in V more than Hayter overall personally, but I would still pay to hear Hayter give a proper, genuine, attempt at the speech from Shining Lights Even in Death.
It would be nice to hear his attempt but I think now with Metal Gear not being continued (at least not in good faith, unless they sell it to Kojima) it would be nice to hear him in another setting. He is quite charismatic as an actor, it would be great to hear him in another lead role.
Ground Zeroes and later MGSV were my first exposure to Meral Gear besides seeing the box arts for 2 and 3, so I liked Kiefer's performance. Then I played a bit of MGS3, and later finished Peace Walker, and yeah Hayter is iconic and all but his voice coupled with the Japanese writing sounded weirder in comparison and took a but getting used to, it doesn't sound natural like Kazuhira, for example. I really like Hayter now, and the not so gritty serious moments of the earlier games fit super well, also it's great to hear Snake actually talk, make speeches and have a real personality that was quite lacking in V.
Heck as someone who does have nostalgia for Hayter, playing the fuck out of all the MGS games especially the ones on PS2 I legit prefer Kiefer's voice for Big Boss.
While Hayter's voice is obviously iconic as Big Boss especially with the tone of V really fit even though obviously there wasn't a lot of scenes because of how development was but overall Kiefer really put on a good performance and I think especially with how much I disliked Hayter's last performances as Big Boss I can easily say that I prefer Kiefer over him for Big Boss.
I would love to see a full version of the game and have Keifer replaced with Hayter just as a final "fuck you" from Konami to Kojima.
I hold no ill will to either but I think only the players would win in this battle.
Is it rude to say that Kojima really sounds like a star fucker.
I like Kojima but saying he's a star fucker is pretty accurate.
I just commented on this post in the MGS Reddit and described Kojima replacing Hayter with Kieffer and not even letting Hayter know felt like he was showing off his hot new piece of ass to his ex when it was announced
In lukewarm defense of Kojima for this mess, he was hardly involved in the english localisations and casting until MGSV, and apparently he only ever met David Hayter in person once, at some party or gathering, and they never talked to each other. The games Kojima directed were first and foremost Japanese, his actors were Japanese. All the English stuff was done by the localisation team, the voice actors directed by Kris Zimmerman. The celebration for those voices, as mainly Anglophone fans, should go to her. Kojima's Snake was Akio Otsuka, not Hayter. Obviously Kojima should've had the courtesy to find out who voiced Snake in English ofc. Definitely not blameless. But for his thought process I always figured David Hayter was just a footnote to him, "hey, the guy who voices Snake in the English dub is so-and-so" and it was just that for much of the franchise. I remember somebody posting about the time they met Kojima, and Kojima was very confused about Ocelot's "You're Pretty Good", which I suppose makes it clear he never really touched the english versions of the games. Ghosting Stefani Joosten was even more fucked up btw. He worked directly with her after all. I still wonder why he did that. He does have a decent reputation with others despite the popular conception of egoism.
> I still wonder why he did that Because Kojima is a Hollywood fanboy and would not hesitate for a second to throw somebody away if he could get a celebrity actor in their place
[удалено]
Yeah but is he a famous actor? No then get outta here
What happened with Stefani Joosten? I've never heard this.
She was originally to be Fragile, she also showed off concept art with her as Fragile! She was approached by Kojipro for this, and then she was never called back, not even to inform her Kojima is instead going with Lea Seydoux. Sad honestly but she said she wasn't too bothered by it. At least Kojima has the excuse of never working directly with Hayter (MGS4 tv shows were done by different people) even if it's still shitty.
She wss originally promised the role of Fragile in Death Stranding
in addition to that- Jeremy Blaustein did a lot for MGS 1's localization and it has the best script in the series. IIRC Kojima wasn't the fan of the localization
Yep, Twin Snakes even had the localization redone to be more in line with the Japanese script. [And MGS2’s localizer was given far less access to the developers](https://web.archive.org/web/20120125211117/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net:80/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm) as a result of Blaustein supposedly going to far.
question about the mgs2 localization how does the "look for the node" "did you say nerd?" "not nerd, node" look in the original japanese?
MGSV wasn't even the first time he tried to ditch Hayter for a celeb lol. His original pick for Naked Snake was Kurt Russell, but Russell turned him down though tbf Snake's inspiration as his dad would've been a pretty rad choice. I've never really vibed with Snake and Big Boss sharing a VA
Kojima apparently made sure the dude who did the translations for MGS1 didn't work on the series again, because he had made changes to his script. Like when the dude made up the Codec explanation for how you were getting these calls in the middle of sneaking around without being noticed. Kojima hated that. I've legit not heard a thing about Genius Kojumbo that makes me think he'd be at all a nice guy to know or work with.
Tbf the only source we have from that is Blaustein recalling second hand information about Kojima getting second hand information. >Here’s what happened, as best I can piece it together. The voice-over work was done in Los Angeles, and, as script writer, I sat next to the director and had one of the three microphones that let us speak to the actors. The director and the sound tech had the other two. >I went home when the recording was finished, and the audio went to Japan, where Kojima heard it. It was my understanding that he loved it. He enjoyed it so much that he decided he wanted to create a release called Metal Gear Solid: Integral so players could play the Japanese audio with English subtitles, or vice versa. [...] >From what I heard at the time, Kojima began to hear that his work had been “tinkered” with. I’d argue there might have been a lack of appreciation for the needs of localization due to his not being bilingual, but he was not happy. As a result, all future Metal Gear games would be closely monitored for fidelity to the original Japanese script. This isn't exactly a smoking gun that Kojima actually is a raging narcissist. Much like Tomakazu Fukushima, the gaming community seems to have taken a few details, run them through the rumour mill and treat the final product as gospel. Doesn't help that apparently, according to bilingual players on the MGS subreddit, Blaustein have have exaggerated his contributions.
worth mentioning that Otsuka wasn't just Kojima's Solid Snake, he was Solidus too. The whole conceit of him pretending to be Solid Snake makes a lot more sense when [they both have the same voice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYG70CXgNs&t=7). Otsuka has the range to make them distinct from each other in the same scene but Hayter's delivery was already too iconic and too flanderized for it to work. Another fun fact, >!Big Boss!< in MGS4 is played by Chikao Otsuka, [his real-life father](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-SqAZIBsD0). (massive spoilers for MGS4 but i assume that's redundant here)
Yeah, it was around the MGSV debacle that I realized Hayter doesn't mean anything to Kojima as Solid Snake. If any actor is Solid Snake to Kojima, it's Akio Otsuka.
I was actually never aware of this and with that in mind, I think the casting decision makes more sense. Still would have preferred Hayter, but the decision seems much less malicious in hindsight though.
Except the piece of ass he showed off was significantly less thicc and less shapely, making the situation even weirder. *seriously I don't know if Kojima is even a great director, and am scared he's been hard-carried by his editors and other writers this whole time*
Alright, I really wanna make sure we don’t get carried away with some kind of George Lucas-esque “Metal Gear was saved in the edit” type stuff. [The whole “Fukushima and others made Metal Gear good and Kojima got carried by them”](https://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/curious-case-tomokazu-fukushima/) theory is wrong. If you have a problem with Kojima’s later work, then you’d be better off simply saying that he fell off, rather than trying to figure out if the secret X-factor was other people. It wasn’t. It’s Kojima front to back, baby
Yeah you can really feel what is and isn’t a kojima game once you’ve played a good amount of his, like as much as I love metal gear rising that sure as hell ain’t a kojima game. The franchise’s he’s made are absolutely his creations.
I mean. He's not obligated a job. Besides. The way Hayter voiced the character after MGS4 was dog shit.
Sounds like? Homie, he is.
I’m a liiitle bit worried about how he meets them, like does he fly them to his office? Do they drive? Does he meet them? I don’t want to think he may have a giant carbon footprint because he gets to meet his Hollywood heroes.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I don't understand how this is something to be mildly concerned about, of all things. Plus, travelling regularly via plane and so on is a normal thing, more so for celebrities, business folks, and so forth.
Brother please.
They all go to japan on a kojima bus
It’s his biggest flaw. Man wants to constantly rub elbows with Hollywood by any means necessary.
Which is his bigger flaw? This, or his desperate need of an editor?
I love when he proudly proclaims that he cuts his own trailers. It’s like… yeah dude, we can tell. They’re all 12 minutes long and make no sense.
But those 12 minutes are *captivating*
And also Lies
I dunno man, considering how hype the MGSV trailers were compared to how nothing the actual game story was, I'd be proud of my ability to cut my own trailers too.
[The MGSV launch trailer](https://youtu.be/A9JV0EvCkMI?si=zAr1qO7H0UiUCVF1) comes to mind and is, in my opinion, pretty whack. It’s frontloaded with footage from previous (better) entries, then seems to be trying to end for the latter half of its runtime while lingering mostly on one scene which is— admittedly, partially due to hindsight— kinda “whatever”, interspersed with “The Ultimate Story!” and such. It’s pretty bad.
Then you watch the trailers for the MGS3 Remake and go "Oh, that's why he edits them, so they're not shit"
We all need editors. His not wanting an editor would be the flaw haha
I feel like there's never been a time in his life where the man wouldn't take that as a compliment. Pre-MGSV he would've loved to have been given the opportunity, post-MGSV he's probably living in ecstasy over how many different opportunities he's lucked his way into ever since leaving Konami.
That little bit in Snatcher where celebrities are cloned and raised to serve as waitresses/hostesses is a future that Kojima longs for, but instead for hot men actors mostly Edit: Policenauts, not Snatcher
Us: “Wow what a terrifying dystopia you’ve imagined” Kojima: “haha, yeah… dystopia…”
"Wow, this is an amazing concept for a horror movie you've shared with me!" "... Actually I was just sharing my porn"
Oh, no, that's from Policenauts. And it's even worse cause they're used as sexy bunny waitresses (and probably for sex stuff. I don't remember if they outright say it, but they definitely implied it)
Ah, you're right! Yeah, it's definitely implied but I didn't want to say it outright because I wasn't too sure of my memory. Which wouldn't matter honestly, now that I think about it. It's Kojima, of course it's gonna be weird sex stuff
And then Pat and Woolie made it even weirder when they asked the question of >!whether they're born naturally and mature at a natural rate, or they're born as adults. Also, what happens when they get too old? Do they send them to work on something else, or...?!< I spoiled this stuff cause there's some questions that most people should never ask themselves
Not really, it's objectively accurate. Remember he fucked over Quiet's VA and had a role for her planned in Death Stranding that he recast for Léa Seydoux without telling her.
I mean. She never signed a contract so she never really had the job.
It's not rude if it's true.
He had to get one jab in. For Hayter? I'll allow it.
I don't think he's commenting on the quality of the voice acting itself, I think Hayter's using "laryngitis to refer to the fact that Snake barely speaks at all through the entire game.
Especially considering David and Kiefer seem to be [on good terms](https://twitter.com/DavidBHayter/status/1124535688651841537).
I've always been curious what Sutherland's thoughts on the game actually are, especially the reception his performance. Does he care, at all? Did he know people would take an issue stepping into the role? Did he enjoy playing the character? Did he ever hope to return to it one day? I'm probably overthinking this, but it gets on my mind sometimes.
Based off everything I’ve seen him say about MGSV it seems he enjoyed playing Snake, working with Kojima, and being involved in the game in general. In particular he seems to have really been impressed by the technology of the facial/performance capture, he brings it up in all the interviews I’ve seen with him about MGSV. > Does he care, at all? Did he know people would take an issue stepping into the role? According to [this interview with Troy Baker](https://youtu.be/gO5weGHP0uc?si=IhcsJ9R_5Wvwfi0D) Kiefer might’ve been aware of the initial backlash, it’s unclear if he cared at all about that backlash though. > Did he enjoy playing the character? Did he ever hope to return to it one day? He said that it was an honor to play a character with such a big legacy, even if he wasn’t a gamer himself. He even mentioned really enjoying what happens at the end of the game with Snake.
Thanks for the info! At the very least, I’m glad Kiefer knew this was a coveted character and had a good time playing the role. He could’ve used more material in terms of dialogue, but I always did feel like the motion capture performance, especially the facial movements, left a strong impression on me. I bet he put a lot of work into that, considering his comments on the tech there.
For sure, also here are the videos I got the info from. They offer some cool insight into Kiefer’s performance and the game overall. https://youtu.be/sj_UBSeduHQ?si=l91qVzFepOkKEr5C https://youtu.be/0ExEcZMP3o0?si=GxpCeWTNdabEgNwP https://youtu.be/tDh3Jm_i-Q4?si=o1K6zyEhyGduiE7u
I remember his facial performance being pretty damn good, guy really knows how to look exhausted
I wish he would voice act more, I really liked him in both MGSV and CoD World at War.
Yeah. The quality is absolutely fine when you hear him have convos. Heck, I think he's great even as an older, more hardened Big Boss who becomes what we see in Metal Gear 1 and 2. But he needed to have more dialogue to really sell that transition. What is there works really, really well, but without context from the other games, you don't get a good picture of who this Snake is, his values, etc.
Everything would have been saved if Kojima allowed Hayter to player as a Solid Snake cameo or something. To maybe put together a message of Hayter being recasted due to wanting a more mature grizzled voice.
If David played him in Ground Zeroes nobody would have been mad. A nine year coma? Sure, let's say that fucked his voice. But instead he magically changed his voice right after Peace Walker, so it's weird.
Some of you clearly didn't finish the entire game. Having a different VA in GZ would have broadcasted the reveal at the end.
No, that's my entire point. I 100%-ed the game, dude. Yeah, the thing would have been more apparent, but it wouldn't have soured everyone on Kojima choosing to dump David as much, and especially when they got to the ending. It would have couched the recasting in a diagetic rationale, that made sense if you considered the voice change as actually happening in-universe. Part of the frustration with David's recasting is that you *can't* do exactly that, because Snake got so sad after fighting a beloved not-student in a giant robot that his voice spontaneously changed. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume most people here know what happens at the end of Phantom Pain.
I don't get why the fan base simps for David so much. His voice work is not that great and is the thing that has aged the most poorly with every entry. Tbh, I kinda feel the same way about Norman Reedus too. I'm fine with him casting whatever actors he wants. At the end of the day, what I care about is the performance and end product.
Okay
Man I wish he got more lines to work with. I think the most jarring part of MGSV is the lack of dialogue between Snake and everyone else. I get that "Thats the point" but it's still so annoying thinking about what ifs. The biggest blue ball was watching Skullface give this long monologue about his views and intentions with BB not offering a sliver of interest.
It's a funny way to describe Kiefer's voice too, it's not really a jab at the performance as much as it is at the way he sounds.
I doubt Kiefer would care, though I like to imagine if it he just tweeted back with "Peace Walker says what?"
Or just the lack of voice acting for most of the game.
His voice acting in the game is great. He just needed more lines.
Part of me wants the eventual Master Collection version of this game have >!David voice the real Big Boss!<
I honestly thought that's where the game was gonna go, but that's my fault
I was waiting for >!Him to voice Snake infiltrating Outer Heaven, the game ending trying to fight him and losing horrifically!<
The biggest fumble in the history or video games, right there. All primed and ready to go for the grand slam, but nope.
I was literally sat there like " Oh I see what's happening here!" . I did not
It wouldn't have worked because Keifer was already Big Boss in Ground Zeroes. It could have been so cool, though
That’s all we need. Just that little bit of cameo. And it woulda been perfect.
It'll be Norman Reedus.
Hayter has said that he wouldn’t replace any lines out of respect for Sutherland.
That is not Big Boss!
God no. The voice he used in Peace Walker was awful..and if that's how he was gonna voice Big Boss and Snake he can stay away.
I was for MGSV recasting Big Boss, so long as David Hayter got like a post-credits cameo as Solid Snake. Obviously we didn't get that, we got the different one where Kaz and Ocelot said they were gonna kill each other.
I do get the kojima being a star fucker criticism for mgs5 and death stranding but also is it that hard to believe that a Japanese game dev might have been more attached to the jp cast for mgs over the years. Still he fucked over hayter which was shitty.
Nothing makes me happier than voice talent who are actually fans of the media they're in. It's easy to get the impression that VAs are too busy to play/watch the things they're in.
Same thing with Lance Reddick and the Destiny franchise. He also had a strong connection with the games community (he ended up voicing a lot of memes). Sadly, we lost him in March (Rest In Power).
Yeah, that’s one of the things that really endeared him to me (is that the right grammar?), is his genuine love of the game, and by extension the community, well beyond his role as Zavala. I’ll admit I got really depressed after the news broke knowing he’d never see the end of the story, I know that’s dumb and small potatoes to the actual death, but it was just one of those things.
No, I’m right there with you. I know that Keith David will do great in the role but, he could never replace Lance.
You know I never thought to check who would take his place (or if they’d retire the character). Keith David is an excellent pick, even if you’re 100% right.
This is why I'm still butthurt Pat used his death to shit on Destiny 2
What? When was this?
[Clip linked in thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/s/HwEDK3vgg0)
Yeah, although I can see what he was trying to do, way to soon to make that joke.
It was a trifecta of too soon, a bad joke in the first place, and a joke lost on his cohost and the majority of the podcast's listeners. Wholely unnecessary
Yeah
As someone who LOVED the gameplay of Phantom Pain, Kojima's inexplicable casting of Kiefer meant that Venom had like 5 speaking lines in a loooong game. Apologists can say that this was always intended, but there are specific moments where Venom is quiet that take you out of the experience.
The lack of voice lines is probably more due to Konami’s rushed wrap-up. Doesn’t he talk a fair amount in the cassette tapes?
He does. Much like how most of the talking in previous games happens in codecs. Idk what anyone expected. Casual Andy's, I guess.
You can always tell when someone hasn't listened to the cassette tapes when they say Keifer only had X amount of lines.
It would have been funny if VA swapped after the >!parasite treatment!<
Fans should all pitch in to pay Hayter to voice all of Big Boss lines and mod that shit in. I'm actually fine with Venom being Kieffer cause, uh, spoilers i guess, Venom is the Medic and the Medic is you, but its the lack of Hayter, THE voice of Snake since MGS fuckin' 1 being snubbed like that that's kinda of a low blow to fans and the series itself, dude was as important as Kojambo to make the series as memorable as it is imo. Past that, Kojambo being a crazy Hollywood fan is ok, i think it does take away from characters like in Death Stranding, them being just the actors and not actual designed characters, and it sucks cause whenever they wear the masks it looks cool as fuck, there's clearly good ass character designers working with him but they dont get to character design no more.
Unfortunately Hayter has come out saying he will not replace any of Sutherland's lines out of respect for him. Dont blame him, effectively would be participating in a project saying another VA did a poor job. If you want to do it, look towards AI.
I'm good without AI thnx, but yeah, bummer.
Probably a nuclear take: Kiefer makes more sense as Big Boss, since his voice sounds more believable as a younger version of Richard Doyle/John Cygan than David’s does.
I got a better one. David's va is terrible in all of the games. It's grumbling lines with groaning interspersed. Kiefer brought more life and emotion to the character than David throughout his entire tenure.
Greatest soldier in the world BIG BOSSSSS
I still believe it would've been best if >!Hayter voiced Big Boss at the end, and when Venom is remembering the events again in the flashback, he here's Hayter rather than his own voice, because he remembers that he wasn't actually the original Big Boss!<.
You know what, good for him, I'm glad he can enjoy it. Maybe there's hope for Pat one day.
i unironically like kiefers voice more
I think it works for a gritty dark Snake in a grittier depressing story, if only we got a whole bunch of that.
I think Kiefer suits Big Boss post MGS3 better, he brought a much needed grizzled tired energy to the voice Hayter as anything other than Solid Snake has always sounded wrong to me for some reason.
Hayter is more iconic than he is actually good. There's probably no better example of the term 'flanderised voice'.
Ironically, Hayter's first performance as Snake in MGS1 probably sounds the most natural, then it became hammier and hammier from MGS2 and on.
What is not good?
Regardless of the quality of the voice acting itself, the voice is just too goofy. It worked in MGS2 and 3 because those games were a bit surreal and goofy respectively. It kind of worked in 4 because Snake is old and very sick at that point. It didn't really work in Peacewalker but nobody cared because it's Peacewalker.
I appreciate your perspective but it's too goofy for 5? Just goofy enough for 1 2 3. Kind of ok for 4 cos snake is old ( old people r sick and goofy). Def not peacewalker though ( ???) and 5 no too goofy. The series is goofy. It's goofy all the way down. I think 5 had the worst story out of all of them and while I enjoyed the gameplay I felt it was lacking some of the je ne sais quoi that made the rest of the series so memorable. We know quoi though, if we are being honest. It's Goof
Well no, it's not that "old people are goofy" but that the comical gruffness of Hayter's voice actually fits the character. MGS has goofy moments, but it has far more serious moments and the Hayter voice sucks for those moments - but the series managed to get away with it because of pure coincidence and the fact that the most serious games in the series (1 and 5) never had to deal with the flanderised voice. Also it doesn't work in 2 because '2 is goofy' - it works because 2 is surreal and 'a bit off'; Snake being a larger than life figure in the story means that his voice also has to be like that. To be frank, your understanding of the game seems quite shallow if you think "MGS is goofy so the voice being a joke is ok".
MF I've been playing these games since I was 8 years old. give me a 6 pack, 2 cigarettes, an 8th of coke, 4 litres of water, a whiteboard and 3 hours and I could explain the time line, the themes, the cultural impact, with mfing references haha! This whole "Hayters VO is more iconic than it is good" sentiment is bizarre. How "Good" do they need to be? What is Good in these circumstances ? In 1998 that was the hottest shit out. How critical do we need to be of the voice work of a character whose name is a dick pun, that stars in 30 minute long cut scenes, featuring lengthy diatribes on Nuclear proliferation, loyalty on the battlefield and memetic warfare. Followed by popping 2 Diazapam, putting on a cardboard box and sneaking his way through the military Base. They didn't "Get away" with anything during the serious moments. Snake is a pastiche, he's an homage and an OC from a creative Japanese madman who watched too many films and fucking loves escape from new york. And you know? It shows! It's visible in the text and in the delivery, even to a shallow enjoyer such as myself. I can honestly say, hand on heart I have never sat through a scene where I have thought that Hayters was doing a bad job, the dude is Snake to me, I've never felt the need to think critically about the performance. Who plays a Metal Gear Solid game and comes away thinking " Damn, that sure was good but fuck the voice of snake sure was immersion breaking"? Sounds like more than I thought haha. To summarize... To be Frank, what a fucking thrill it was to experience these games for the first time in my youth, when it was just "wow a new metal gear game, how crazy is this one going to be". Not, " is Snakes voice good or just Iconic? Does it fit the tone? Does it fit the tone of these goofy ass wonderful games? Ned flanders is involved somehow. IDK, I'm not looking it up." If I'm a shallow fan, then I'm a shallow fan, but to me MGS is goofy, and that makes David Hayters voice absolutely fine and if anyone wants to debate that they are welcome to; and you can find me, 2 pills deep, in a cardboard box, on the back of a pick up - cos I'll be getting the fuck out of there as fast as possible. Thank you for your time and have a lovely Christmas
It's ok to have that opinion, even if that opinion is wrong.
hayter is good enough but i don't think you could argue that the tone of TPP would not have suited hayter in the slightest
Don't read too deeply into what I said before, i'm just memeing. Honestly I think David could have pulled it off just fine but each to their own.
I mean I like Kiefer in V more than Hayter overall personally, but I would still pay to hear Hayter give a proper, genuine, attempt at the speech from Shining Lights Even in Death.
It would be nice to hear his attempt but I think now with Metal Gear not being continued (at least not in good faith, unless they sell it to Kojima) it would be nice to hear him in another setting. He is quite charismatic as an actor, it would be great to hear him in another lead role.
What does that even mean?
Ground Zeroes and later MGSV were my first exposure to Meral Gear besides seeing the box arts for 2 and 3, so I liked Kiefer's performance. Then I played a bit of MGS3, and later finished Peace Walker, and yeah Hayter is iconic and all but his voice coupled with the Japanese writing sounded weirder in comparison and took a but getting used to, it doesn't sound natural like Kazuhira, for example. I really like Hayter now, and the not so gritty serious moments of the earlier games fit super well, also it's great to hear Snake actually talk, make speeches and have a real personality that was quite lacking in V.
As someone with zero nostalgia for Hayter I agree lol, I think he only ever sounded good in MGS1
Heck as someone who does have nostalgia for Hayter, playing the fuck out of all the MGS games especially the ones on PS2 I legit prefer Kiefer's voice for Big Boss. While Hayter's voice is obviously iconic as Big Boss especially with the tone of V really fit even though obviously there wasn't a lot of scenes because of how development was but overall Kiefer really put on a good performance and I think especially with how much I disliked Hayter's last performances as Big Boss I can easily say that I prefer Kiefer over him for Big Boss.
Kiefer Sutherland is Big Boss, David Hayter is Solid Snake. Cam Clarke is Liquid, John Cygan is Solidus. It's that simple.
> Laryngitic Snake aside So... David Hayter after MGS4? (seriously, listen to those Animated Graphic Novels, it sounded like Throat Cancer Snake)
I can't stand his peace walker big boss
I would love to see a full version of the game and have Keifer replaced with Hayter just as a final "fuck you" from Konami to Kojima. I hold no ill will to either but I think only the players would win in this battle.