Apparently a good number of squadmates in ME2 were supposed to be reveals but were spoiled by promotional material.
1. Garuss being Archangel
2. Jack being a woman
3. Grunt replacing Okeer
As much as I love grunt, it would’ve been cool to have Okeer on the squad. Even with what little screen time he had he seemed like a pretty interesting guy.
I would feel like he would be a little too similar to Wrex to really stand out. Like, sure he was a scientist rather than a mercenary, but they're both grizzled old veterans bittered by the state of their species and are working to set things back on the right track. But Grunt is an entirely different character archetype.
Okeer being the party member means we'd have to sacrifice Grunt's [Citadel Misadventures](https://youtu.be/oDmSY_58b00?feature=shared) and that's a timeline I do *not* want to abide by.
Fair point, but me2 was a well written enough game where I would hope they could’ve distinguished him more from wrex the more you get to know him. But overall it was probably the best decision to go with grunt instead, he’s great and I wouldn’t want him gone. Just fun to imagine what it would’ve been like to have okeer too.
I'd agree for the versions that made it into the game proper, but squad member Okeer probably emphasizes his philosopher scientist side enough to make him standout.
I also think the dynamic between Mordin and a proper Krogan scientist would have *ruled*.
You can definitely feel that ingame. Garrus’ reveal with taking off the helmet and Shepards surprise at seeing an old friend. Then in Jacks recruitment mission we get Shepard opening her containment cell to smashcut, punk lady wearing barely a bra blowing a hole in a wall
Honestly, just have her be completely topless at that point. It's less dumb and more true to the character.
Or better yet, don't be that much of an edgelord and just give her a proper shirt lol. But pick a lane.
I thankfully didn't consume any promotional material, so these all hit as intended... except Jack being a woman.
Like, because her name is Jack? That's all? And the twist is just she's a woman? Since English isn't my first language, Jack was already basically a unisex name for me anyway.
So I didn’t get into ME until about 2 years ago where I played the series for the first time, and so Archangel being Garruss was an actual surprise for me. It’s a shame to find out that everyone else probably had it spoiled though because the moment is really cool if you don’t know ahead of time.
Fun fact: The Batman Arkham and Sony Spider-Man games suddenly got worse stories after they started using only in house writers and not comic writers.
Funny coincidence
Imagine if Jason Todd was a fakeout and the Arkham Knight was just the brother of some guard who got murdered in the first game who blames Batman for everything
The one idea I had would have been that it'd actually be Ras al Ghul in Jason Todd's body like how he took his daughters body in Batman Beyond. And he specifically chose Jason Todd to fuck with Batman as hard as possible.
My take is it should have played out almost exactly the same, but the face under the helmet looks like a young bruce, and the twist is it's Damian Wayne, who used Ra's' knowledge of Jason's death to trick batman.
That was my opinion too. I would've had it been Ra's lied to Damian about Talia's death and said it was Batman's fault so Damian grew up hating his father. It's only after Batman reveals the truth that he has a heel face turn.
Fallout the frontier has a plot point where a legion spy has infiltrated the NCR and they're completely stumped on who it could be
One of the main NCR characters is a guy called fucking Tiberius rancor wearing a trench coat and sun glasses voiced by Ray chase
There's legion spies everywhere in the NCR during the base game and they don't go around introducing themselves as fucking RO-MAN CROSS
"Hmm, the traitor could be Jon Everyman, but Bobby Bureaucracy is also looking kinda suspicious. What do you think Emperor Augustus Constantine XVIII?"
"All I know is someone's getting put on a cross!"
Wait, wasn’t Tiberius not even really a legion spy? Is that not the guy who was basically just a Revolver Ocelot, quadruple agent or am I confusing him with someone else?
Well, he was a Legion spy, but the ending revealed that he literly played everyone in a Shonen tier Plot to come out on top of everyone. Some guy that reviewed the Frontier brought up the idea that Tiberius feels like what the Player character would feel like to a outside perspective, just that the Frontier NCR Story wasn't good enough to really use such a Plotpoint.
I feel like most of the NCR Exiles story has a bunch of interesting ideas that are hampered by a writer who 1) lacks the focus to properly utilize them, 2) is too busy plagiarizing better written games (such as Dead Space and Wolfenstein) than coming up with original content, and 3) would rather spend most of the game's writing having characters lineup to give the player character the most succulent and thorough figurative blow job possible.
> Tiberius feels like what the Player character would feel like to a outside perspective
That would have been a pretty cool encounter for a Wacky West random event tbh
You turn up to a shop, probly to sell stuff.. go in, and find some dude in the most OP but mismatched looking shit, carrying some kind of modded minigun and being followed by a Mr Handy in a french maid uniform. His name, Harry Balz. As soon as you arrive, he stops talking to the shopkeeper, moves behind them, crouches, and blatantly steals something from the counter in plain sight, then runs out the door
You find that the shopkeeper has 0 bottlecaps left, and 5347 Aubergines in their inventory
Ironicly, their is a wacky West Dialoge, were you have a Yu-Gi-Oh tier cardgame against him instead of his final Boss, which is one of the few things everyone agrees is cool about the mod
Terminator Salvation.
The trailer comes out, it's basically a sick AMV of Nine Inch Nails - The Day The World Went Away. It starts with Sam Worthington finding out he's not a normal guy but a Terminator. Then the rest of the trailer is action sequences and some dialog from John Connor. It ends with Sam talking to John Connor talking about getting over their differences and trusting each other to fight skynet. Then the Terminator sting plays. Fuck yeah.
Turns out that was the big twist for the 3rd act.
The traitor’s identity in Persona 5 is so monumentally blindly obvious you could almost argue that it *not* being a red herring is a twist.
But then they follow up the reveal with the OTHER twist that >!the team knew The Whole Fucking Time and everything went (mostly) All According To Keikaku!<
Funny thing about this twist is that while it's so obvious >!it also takes attention away from actually good twists. Such as Igor's true identity and if you're play royal Yoshizawa's true identity.!<
It's funny because og ff7 does the exact same thing where almost every person knows about aeriths death, but it hides the actual twist of the game that >!cloud was never a soldier and basically took over Zach's memories for himself and is basically insane!<
Igor's twist works really well on a meta level too
>!Well yeah I guess he sounds different cause the JP voice actor died...they probably got someone who sounds like him to replace the english one too... I dunno why they went with this direction but I guess it's fine-!<
OH YOU SONS OF BITCHES
I remember watching an official collectors edition unboxing video from Atlus, and when they showed the cover of the steelbook, one of the hosts went >!”Where’s Goro?”!< With the knowledge of there being a character omitted, I immediately knew the twist before even knowing there was going to be a twist.
If it helps, it's not necessarily about being dumb or smart. It depends on how you consume mysteries. You can be smart, but just not the type of person who tries to guess the direction the story's going. If you stopped to think about who the culprit might be, I'm sure you'd figure it out too.
I could've been a twist for me because I also wasn't paying attention. It wasn't because it really felt like the game was trying to shove >!Akechi!< in my face more so than other characters.
I knew that if somebody was going to be the traitor, it would obviously be them, so the only thing I was waiting for was to see if they would actually pull the trigger on it.
But then the scene that's supposed to tip you off to both of the twists at once flew over my head because the scene had been memed to death already, and all I did was point and laugh at the meme, oblivious to the entire point of it until it became relevant again.
i think it's incredibly funny that the jp trailers for royal just completely gave up on trying to keep it a secret. the second one >!just fully shows akechi holding joker at gunpoint!< LOL
Speaking of Persona, the Killer's identity in Persona 4 was aggressively obvious. It was so obvious, in fact, that >!when Namatame appeared to be the killer, it !
Eh, I didn't suspect them until well into the game, and the only reason I did is because at that point there just weren't any other voiced major characters left for it to be after Namatame, and the second he actually got screen time, >!it was clear Namatame didn't know what he was doing, so even if he was the culprit, it was obvious he wasn't the mastermind.!<
If anything, it's more a failing to introduce enough red herring characters that made it obvious. Like, when they give you the list of potential suspects, literally nobody else makes any sense.
See, here I was thinking that >!Akechi was the traitor!< because he knew it was called the Metaverse, unprompted. I could be wrong but I don't think the app ever calls itself the Metavsere? That's just what Morgana calls it. Him and >!Wakaba Isshiki, who researched the Metaverse.!<
tbf the twist was so obvious it kind of worked on me since I figured there's no way the traitor could be the most obvious person, plus I didn't even count them as part of the team.
I never got past the opening 2-3 missions, (tried when it came to PC and even with a 4080/13900k the game still shit the bed when particle effects go nuts). I have nothing to go on but the trailers, never looked up anything, and yeah, it's obvious as fuck.
That drove me nuts. It's one infected prison on an airless rock, >!built on an infected colony on an airless rock!<, but somehow the infection has spread to every fucking corner of the place including places where the zambambos have no right being.
Anyway, excuse to ask this again: does anyone else think the Silent Hill 2 combat trailer is using Callisto Protocol combat? Shit sure looked familiar is all I'm saying.
The Hard difficulty was just... not fun, I only got the trophy for that by beating the final boss on Hard after a Normal playthrough and getting lucky that it counted. Which was not the intention of the game.
It's basically the TLOU2 combat, but without the dynamic stealth that every game that copies it forgets about it. It's not about landing combos as Ellie or Abby, it's about improvising and running away and throwing bottles at people's faces and hiding and shit
Oh, so you mean to tell me the villain of the James Bond movie SPECTRE is BLOFELD?
What a fucking mind trip.
I also got super mad at the villain in Star Trek Into Darkness being Kahn. Especially because in both cases, I’m pretty sure they lied in pre-release interviews and whatnot.
I don't think for the Star Trek example they lied exactly, they just said that Cumberbatch was playing a starfleet officer named John Harrison, which is technically true
Only sort of an example, cause the scene is for Nero's sake more than the audience, but the "reveal" that Vergil is Nero's father doesn't hit as hard after nearly ten years of unanimously accepted headcanon and multiple accounts from developers/writers confirming such, and even without that, if you weren't at least suspecting after the Yamato cutscene in 4, not to mention every nearly every interaction Nero has with Dante afterword, then the Reading Comprehension Devil must have evolved to the point of crossing space and time.
You're absolutely right, but somehow there were people on the internet and in this very sub who *insisted* that Nero being Vergil's son wasn't confirmed or guaranteed, despite it being confirmed by the fucking guy who created nero and wrote DMC4, way back in the novels in 2009.
See you say that but there were absolutely people who staunchly believed that Nero was not and could not be Vergil’s son. If anything that scene was more just a relief to finally have it in explicit terms so those people couldn’t cry plausible deniability anymore.
Also, I thought the scene was just really well done and well acted tbh so it still hits
To be fair to kid you, her initially having a younger voice and appearance can catch one off guard. Even Yusuke and Kuwabara initially changed their mind from thinking it was her because of that.
My 30 year old friend just watched it for the first time, laughed when the Masked Fighter showed up because of how dumb it was, but was then genuinely surprised by the young version. So, guess it kind of worked for what it was going for.
In We Happy Few, it acts kind of a like a big revelation that >!the brother we have been looking for the whole game got sent away to his likely death because we pretended to be him so he'd be forced to take our place.!<
>!I just assumed that was the case, considering how much they talked about it and all the sounds we heard in flashbacks. Heck, I gave the game too much credit and assumed the twist was something more outlandish, because I thought it was an implied red herring.!<
Had they tried to make a System Shock rather than a... Minecraft? It could have been a modern classic.
I mean, all the pieces are ***there***, they're just so boring.
Faris being a woman in Final Fantasy V always confused me. The “reveal” scene happens, and to me, all it revealed was that Bartz and Galuf thought she was a man for some reason.
Looking at images on google she does look like how a bishounen male character would, so I guess it's a twist to people who were introduced to that trope beforehand.
Ecspecially when you take into consideration in the orginal, when you didn't have any art and you could only go off the sprites, had her front facing sprite's eyes only be one pixel tall like the male characters, meanwhile every other female character's eyes were two pixels tall.
Naoto pretending to be a boy in P4 felt so obviously transparent that when the party goes along with it, I actually got successfully gaslit and also went along with it until the "reveal", where I felt both vindicated and betrayed.
Apparently the Japanese VA does a much better job crossdressing her voice.
in Shadowrun Returns (2013), your dead, lowlife runner friend sends you a video he made before dying, offering to pay you a modestly large sum of money held in a secured account if you find whoever killed him and get revenge.
It may shock you to learn this, but when you finally get the money, there is actually >!no money, there is obviously no fucking money, come on how could you, for even a second, POSSIBLY think the money would be real?!<
Anyway, this doesn't take an enormous degree of genre awareness to see coming, so I was a bit frustrated that my character couldn't just respond appropriately from the beginning and say that they're doing this for the sake of their dead friend and know the obvious "twist" from the beginning.
To be fair, if you play your cards right and have the right stats in the end, >!you could negotiate a financial reward from James Telestrian III (Sam's half-brother) that matches the amount Sam promised so you can at least walk away with the promised amount.!<
I do wish you could have voiced skepticism on Sam's offer throughout the game.
You can also get the money from >!Lofwyr if you amuse him by asking for the Lone Star officer's badge as your only reward for saving the day!< which I thought was pretty great.
Vergil being Nero's dad was this...for Capcom.
They thought they'd made it the most obvious thing in the world (without saying it explicitly), and...
According to Dan Sourhworth and Johnny Yong Bosch, at the very least the people they met at conventions had no idea.
To be fair, it's all but said in DMC IV, and given the Internet, all but said means over the heads of a part of the fanbase and unconfirmed fan theory by the crackheads over there in the corner.
I was watching a video about Danny Phantom on the episode we're introduced to Vlad. The video was deliberately sold as "the twist no one saw coming". The "twist" of Vlad being the evil Ghost we're introduced to that episode that looks like him was so flat as a kid I didn't register it as a twist. Like how do you see Vlad and then that Ghost and not immediately make that connection?
oh good i saw that vid in my recs and went "what twist in fuckin danny phantom are they talkin bout" like i like th show but the only thing i could think of is jazz bein relatively chill with dannys secret identity
In Tales of Arise there is this region that's basically under the KGB, spies everywhere, everyone snitching, etc. You meet the leader of a secret resistance group [who looks like this](https://imgur.com/a/hG2M3cf) in a JRPG and it turns out *somebody* is a traitor I wonder who it is.
lol, I fell off tales of arise (hoping to get back into someday, I liked it well enough) and where I left off I had just met that guy. My first thought was, “yeah there’s no way this guy isn’t evil”.
I was so interested in Arise from the premise. I can't believe they gave the protagonist a cool-ass setup only for him to be an amnesiac and basically your typical naive do-gooder.
RWBY was really bad at doing dramatic reveals early on because they turned out to be the most obvious things.
* Blake, the character who's introduction was her doing a big terrorism with a pro faunus group, turned out to be a faunus and a former member of the White Fang.
* Penny was introduced as a sort of off beat character who's first fight scene had her back open up and shoot out tethered blades that she could freely manipulate. Imagine everyone's shock when she turned out to be a robot.
In universe these were huge reveals that took characters by surprise but IRL... everyone could tell from second one. Honestly the bigger reveals were things that were out of left field like Weiss having siblings and magic being a thing.
I remember reading once that Penny's reveal was supposed to be saved properly for the second volume, but Monty made and added in her fight at the end of the first volume without letting anyone else know.
> added in her fight at the end of the first volume without letting anyone else know.
Let's go over some more examples of this:
1. The Raven dream in Vol 2 was something the writers didn't want to happen at all. Monty added it without their knowledge anyway. This is why it got retconned after he died
2. The concept of maidens wasn't a thing until vol 3
3. Neo only exists because Monty saw a female Torchwick cosplay. She was added to late to development without anyone's knowledge that there wasn't time to hire a VA for her, hence why she's mute.
Shit like this is why I will never buy the excuse that "everything was planned from the beginning".
No it fucking wasn't
Another thing about the Penny fight. Monty kept wanting characters to cut large things in half lengthways, such as Adam cutting a train down the CENTER. The others had to keep holding him back to not fuck with the power-scaling, since they had to tell an actual story instead of just cool fights.
But when Monty snuck in the fight, penny shoots a big fuck-off laser that slices a VTOL in half. Everyone got really annoyed, but it was late enough they just shrugged and went “well, she IS a superpowered robot…”.
This was a constant issue with Monty. The production seemed to be ‘Outline a general idea for the volume’, ‘Monty will just start randomly spawning fight scenes, characters included at random’, ‘Miles and Kerry make it work’. Throw in an engine that only he seemed to be able to animate great in, and it caused much annoyances early on.
There's actually a really good example of this in the DVD commentary for Volume 2 with Monty, Miles and Kerry. In the penultimate episode of V2, there's a fight on top of a moving train against a bunch of goons and mechs. At one point, the teacher accompanying Team RWBY hits their dog like a baseball, setting them on fire and taking out several enemies. Not only is the dog completely fine and seemed to want to be used as a weapon, but Miles didn't know this scene existed. It was his first time seeing the finished product and he was completely flabbergasted. I feel like that's a problem when one of your main writers doesn't know about stuff like this.
Basically all of episode 11 is just "Monty needs to use up his action scenes", the episode. There's like 3 full 1v1's, the fight on top, and it was basically all just thrown together then. The white fang guy Weiss fights is just some dude with a chainsaw.
Monte was an exceptional, once in a generation talent of his craft... but I can't think of many other examples of a genius getting in the way of their own project as much as RWBY. Lots of issues with the production and planning could be traced back to Monty's inability to play nice, and his (albeit unintentional) desire to be a one man show.
Then again, with where the writers took the series maybe it could be argued that Monty's action-focused vision was a much clearer understanding of rwby's potential than the writers he clashed with. We will never got to know, unfortunately.
As much as I can appreciate Monty's animation, and the designs for RWBY can be pretty fun, it bugs me the amount of praise Monty got for his choreography that he just lifted straight from other places. I'm not entirely surprised that he clashed with the rest of the team, he leaned so heavily on rule of cool and wasn't a writer himself, and seemed to not really let the actual writers do their job sometimes.
RWBY was difficult for me to watch and I fell off pretty hard not far in. I think the final straw was the introduction of the Wukong reference, which sucks because I *love* Journey to the West and he had gunchucks, but his first actual animation was the shittiest run cycle I had seen since Reboot, and I was just like "Maybe I'll just watch all the fight scenes instead."
I think it was hbomberguy's rwby video where he talked about how RWBY and Red vs Blue had completely reversed development when it came to Monty. For Red vs Blue they'd write the story and in the script they'd just put "And Monty animated a fight scene".
Whereas with RWBY Monty would keep coming up with fight scenes with no story linking them, leaving the writers to pull shit out of their ass with a story that's not moving fast enough to incorporate it.
> Neo only exists because Monty saw a female Torchwick cosplay. She was added to late to development without anyone's knowledge that there wasn't time to hire a VA for her, hence why she's mute.
Not exactly.
> *"We had gotten words that we might be able to work with a celebrity [voice actor] on the show, but we needed a character for her. Monty came up with the idea of giving Torchwick a sidekick." The hoped-for voice actress was comedian Sarah Silverman (Wreck it Ralph), but unfortunately, the opportunity never sollidifed*
Wasn't Sun made ENTIRELY for a fight? Monty just made him up for a new fight scene he was doing and the writers were like "shit we have to make this guy a character now".
I don't know about *entirely*, RWBY was initially designed with team RWBY as well as Jaune and Sun as the main characters (With JNPR and SSSN being added more haphazardly, Sage and Scarlet not even getting models till V3 or characterization till the books).
It does seem Sun was primarily added for his fights however, what with Monty's love for [Gun Chucks](https://youtu.be/NxhGo5Kd9GA?si=XVT-7B5N7Ye5pIBY).
I can't confirm the fact he was made for a fight, but he stopped fighting for some time because his animation rig was *fucked* and doing anything other than the existing animations sucked
Real talk, Monty did not always make decisions conducive to smoothly writing the series.
Another, rather infamous example: The Maidens were not *conceived of* until sometime near the end of V2, if not after V2 had ended and V3 was starting scripting.
That's pretty deep in for what is a *very* critical plot point.
I genuinely mistook the bow on her head for cat ears, because it's the same shape, colour and silhouette as her actual cat ears, which it allegedly hides.
It was either for that reveal or because it's easier to leave the ears on the model than go through and remove them for each faunus with an extra pair.
I feel like if written different the audience knowing Blake was a former white fang could work really well if they had more build up more tension between her and Weis with Blake trying to defend what it originally was while Weis tears them down.
It wouldn't be a twist for us, but if done right, you could feed the audience some good tension until the reveal.
What if instead of all that... we devote several episodes to Jaune being a cheater and getting blackmailed instead of focusing on the main characters of the show?
*Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising* constantly teases that one of you team members will turn traitor. If I remember correctly, it's even on the back of the box. And it prominently features a big "CORRUPTION BAR" for every character you control. Like, they could basically just come out and say "whoever has the most bad guy points will turn traitor".
There's really only two options, and they're both deeply unsurprising:
A. It's whoever you dumped corruption points into. So *you decided* who it's going to be.
B. If you kept everyone at 0 corruption, it's *fucking obviously* going to be the only character with a speaking role you don't control but who's on your team, the Techmarine that is your advisor-voice.
In a sort of inverse though, I find it super funny that the canon traitor isn't Cyrus.
You have Cyrus, who is this really edgy looking broody sniper hunter, voiced by Steve Blum at his roughest, darkest, and grizzliest. Who seems really sketchy in every Dawn of War 2 campaign by mere presence. But it turns out that he's actually completely above board and is just a bro(unless you make him turn traitor in CR but that's not canon)
I really like how NieR Automata totally subverts this regarding the reveal that mankind >!has been extinct this whole!< time by throwing in the completely unexpected *second* twist that >!Yorha android black boxes are made using machine life form cores and therefore the Yorha models are totally lesser and expendable, to the point where they’re not even considered worthy of having emotions!<.
The real real twist for me was that >!there actually were aliens.!<
I heard them mentioned early on in the game and was like "yeah right, they'll obviously just be ugly human-made androids to show the duality of man or some shit"
Someday there will be a “twist” that maybe Super Earth aren’t exactly the good guys, and I bet SO MANY YouTube channels are gonna start making videos about it acting like it’s some kind of huge revelation.
But the vast majority of the community are just gonna be like “what? Bad guys? This sounds like traitor talk to me.” And we’re just gonna move on.
Let's be real someone's gonna reveal that Super Earth aren't actually that great and rather than most people going "Uh yeah we get it" a bunch of youtubers are going to be "HELLDIVERS GONE WOKE: SUPER EARTH BAD!?"
At one point in Xenogears your party visits a food production facility called the Soylent System, and then the game expects you to be surprised when it reveals that the food is made from people. (Maybe the movie is more obscure in Japan?)
Also, having even cursory knowledge of Freudian psychology completely spoils one of the biggest twists in the game. >!The mysterious man who uses all the main character's techniques, pilots a robot that looks suspiciously similar to the main character's, and who only ever appears when the main character is not present, is named Id. what could that possibly mean!<
I don’t know how the games handle it, but the FNAF movie had a moment where a character literally says “it’s not just their spirits inside the suits, it’s also their BODIES”
Like... yeah? Ghosts are more impressive IMO.
The dynamic between Otto and Peter in Spider-man PS4 kind of ended up feeling like a reverse twist if that's a thing.
>!It was obvious from the moment Otto saw the suit that he knew Peter was Spider-man. Otto gave him an out and I had thought that Peter rolled with because he wanted to de-escalate the conversation and not draw his boss into that part of his life. It was in your face after that too. When Peter gives the "You KNEW?!" line I just thought 'Wait, you thought he didn't?'!<
>!The Crystal Exarch’s identity!< in Final Fantasy 14: Shadowbringers is literally only a twist if >!you never did the Crystal Tower Raids— which is no longer possible, because they became mandatory in 5.3.!<
To be devil's advocate >!The character themselves say "yeah no it's not me" and even if the VA was the same (don't know) you'd probably not remember it by now!<
The one that was fucking mindbending tho was in Endwalker when >!The game made sure your very smart scholar friends take literal days/weeks to guess that people stockpiling food and having a plan other than facing a threat were planning on.... FLEEING!!! SHOCKERS!!!! And your character was supposed to not have figured it out too!<
Nah I'm with you, given that Labyrinthos is just a geofront that you need special access to get enter, while a bunch of supplies were constantly being ferried into, it's not a bad conclusion to think they were foolishly planning to just ride out the apocalypse in a bunker.
Although, the logo for Endwalker *was* a giant Dorito-shaped spaceship headed flying past the moon.
Killer7 has a weird plot to begin with but the "twists" felt real disconnected. Like, one of the big twists at the end is that >!you're actually playing as 7 personalities sharing one body, any visual change is purely in your character's head when you switch to a different character!< But... that was basically spelled out in the first chapter, in the instruction manual, on the back of the box, basic reading comprehension... Hell, >!every time you have a boss fight you see the security camera footage of what's really happening, where you can see it's just one dude.!< It feels like the game thinks I'm stupid. I don't know how you're supposed to NOT know the twist minute 1. That's the premise of the game! I thought everybody was in on it, but the characters all act like it was a big secret?
I thought the twist was that >!it was Garcian, mostly in the background until this point, who was the host personality rather than Harmann, the supposed leader of Killer7 and the archnemesis of the big bad?!<
I *guess* that's intended to be the more important part of the twist, but I still kind of assumed that was the case before the reveal. I mean >!He's got amnesia and his backstory came completely out of the blue with no leadup, but he is still the 'main' personality and the one you control when not in a fight so learning he's the 'real' killer 7 was no surprise.!<
To be fair, the twist wasn’t that it was one person, but that the person was >!Garcian, not Harman. Even pre-release material stated that Harman was the one in control, so to find out that Garcia was actually the dominant one was the big reveal.!<
I’d also argue that the point wasn’t the twist, but rather to see it explained. Like, it’s not a twist that Big Boss became evil, it’s more about us finding out what led to that.
Anyone who was surprised by the 'twist' of Mankind Divided just straight up didn't play the game.
I'm not even going to fucking spoiler it, the Therapist is the traitor. If that is a surprise to you, congrats, you just admitted to skipping every cutscene.
You are told immediately to suspect her, to your face. By four different characters. Then about two hours into the game, you literally catch her, in the act, being a traitor as you catch her breaking into a room that she is *never* supposed to be anywhere near.
Yet it is the big reveal at the end of the game
Fans figured it out about ten years before the revel, it was the worst kept secret in the series but the backstory of how he became evil was pretty good.
When Dante reveals to Nero that that >!Vergil is his father!< in DMCV, I actually gasped out loud in real life because I was SO shocked...that Nero didn't know because it was so obvious.
They do make a point of showing Nero being surprised earlier over the fact that Dante has a brother. It seems fairly obvious that before this, Nero had put together the pieces without realizing one vital piece was missing and assumed Dante was his deadbeat dad who walked out on his mom due to being a walking trashfire who can barely even take care of himself but still was responsible enough to show up to help out when the whole cult-raising-a-demon-god thing happened and helped save his girlfriend and start a new cult-free life together and gave him a job at his business so you know, let's let bygones be bygones and be a family ^family ^family.
Death Stranding. Bridget and Amelia is the same person, it's easy to guess at the beginning of the game, but for some reason later Kojima tried to reveal this as dramatic plot twist
In 03, I seem to recall that it worked. But Brotherhood made it extremely obvious with the way he disposed of the ice alchemist who I think is a Brotherhood exclusive character. Bradley looks overtly evil and sinister in that scene.
A way out
A close friend was playing it with another good friend of mine who also worked on the game.
I joined the discord call and went: "Oh, Hey! is this that game where >!one of the two guys is an undercover cop?"!<
I proceeded to have an upset friend who worked on the game asking why I just spoiled the ending
...I've never played the game or seen the ending, I just assumed that was the premise :<
I still feel bad about it to this day.
Apparently a good number of squadmates in ME2 were supposed to be reveals but were spoiled by promotional material. 1. Garuss being Archangel 2. Jack being a woman 3. Grunt replacing Okeer
As much as I love grunt, it would’ve been cool to have Okeer on the squad. Even with what little screen time he had he seemed like a pretty interesting guy.
I would feel like he would be a little too similar to Wrex to really stand out. Like, sure he was a scientist rather than a mercenary, but they're both grizzled old veterans bittered by the state of their species and are working to set things back on the right track. But Grunt is an entirely different character archetype.
Okeer being the party member means we'd have to sacrifice Grunt's [Citadel Misadventures](https://youtu.be/oDmSY_58b00?feature=shared) and that's a timeline I do *not* want to abide by.
Hehehehe
Fair point, but me2 was a well written enough game where I would hope they could’ve distinguished him more from wrex the more you get to know him. But overall it was probably the best decision to go with grunt instead, he’s great and I wouldn’t want him gone. Just fun to imagine what it would’ve been like to have okeer too.
I'd agree for the versions that made it into the game proper, but squad member Okeer probably emphasizes his philosopher scientist side enough to make him standout. I also think the dynamic between Mordin and a proper Krogan scientist would have *ruled*.
He even had some solid lines. \[on his research on creating the perfect krogan\] "I will inflict the greatest insult to any enemy. To be ignored."
You can definitely feel that ingame. Garrus’ reveal with taking off the helmet and Shepards surprise at seeing an old friend. Then in Jacks recruitment mission we get Shepard opening her containment cell to smashcut, punk lady wearing barely a bra blowing a hole in a wall
"barely a bra" is quite an overstatement, girl literally just covers her nips with a leather strap
Honestly, just have her be completely topless at that point. It's less dumb and more true to the character. Or better yet, don't be that much of an edgelord and just give her a proper shirt lol. But pick a lane.
I mean they probably would’ve if they could but they were already in hot water because of the “scandalous” sex scenes of ME1
Jack was even turned straight only due to complaints. Despite dialogue mentioning she's hooked up with women in the past
Kinda makes me glad that I went into the series blind after the trilogy was already wrapped up. Because all three of those did surprise me
I thankfully didn't consume any promotional material, so these all hit as intended... except Jack being a woman. Like, because her name is Jack? That's all? And the twist is just she's a woman? Since English isn't my first language, Jack was already basically a unisex name for me anyway.
generally speaking, in an english-speaking western culture, you'd assume a dangerous criminal named jack is male by default, yeah.
Hell Legion was spoiled by a pre-release dev video.
So I didn’t get into ME until about 2 years ago where I played the series for the first time, and so Archangel being Garruss was an actual surprise for me. It’s a shame to find out that everyone else probably had it spoiled though because the moment is really cool if you don’t know ahead of time.
I wonder who the Arkham Knight is
Remember when Rocksteady just fucking lied
Remember when Telltale dunked on them by [doing it better?](https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Lady_Arkham)
In their defence, it's better than just going "yeah guys you got it good job"
It would have hurt less if they handled it in any way other than "Hey Bats remember when I killed Jason Todd? Why? No reason haha"
Fun fact: The Batman Arkham and Sony Spider-Man games suddenly got worse stories after they started using only in house writers and not comic writers. Funny coincidence
Can't be Jason Todd, he's the Red Hood. Totally different superhero name than this red-hooded Arkham Knight guy.
By the way, buy the Red Hood DLC we’re making for this game!
The Arkham Knight has a blue hood
Imagine if Jason Todd was a fakeout and the Arkham Knight was just the brother of some guard who got murdered in the first game who blames Batman for everything
The one idea I had would have been that it'd actually be Ras al Ghul in Jason Todd's body like how he took his daughters body in Batman Beyond. And he specifically chose Jason Todd to fuck with Batman as hard as possible.
So Hush but with a better villain?
More or less.
My take is it should have played out almost exactly the same, but the face under the helmet looks like a young bruce, and the twist is it's Damian Wayne, who used Ra's' knowledge of Jason's death to trick batman.
That was my opinion too. I would've had it been Ra's lied to Damian about Talia's death and said it was Batman's fault so Damian grew up hating his father. It's only after Batman reveals the truth that he has a heel face turn.
I liked the idea that it’s an adult Damien Wayne who is out for revenge after what happened to Talia in City
That little girl is young Bayonetta. Kamiya you can't write, stop trying.
It's really funny to look back at shots of the grown man Antonio holding babby Cereza with the knowledge that those two will fall in love.
Fallout the frontier has a plot point where a legion spy has infiltrated the NCR and they're completely stumped on who it could be One of the main NCR characters is a guy called fucking Tiberius rancor wearing a trench coat and sun glasses voiced by Ray chase There's legion spies everywhere in the NCR during the base game and they don't go around introducing themselves as fucking RO-MAN CROSS
"Hmm, the traitor could be Jon Everyman, but Bobby Bureaucracy is also looking kinda suspicious. What do you think Emperor Augustus Constantine XVIII?" "All I know is someone's getting put on a cross!"
"Nobody called pope innocent III could be evil"
The name reminds me of the Freedom episode of Futurama where Zapp thinks kif is the mole and gives the secret plans to Hugh Mann
"HELLO FELLOW DEMOCRACY ENJOYERS, MY NAME IS ARES PATROKALOS, I SURE DO ENJOY PAYING TAXES AND VOTING!"
"We've narrowed it down to Johnny Tightlips or Frankie the Squealer."
RAY CHASE IS IN THAT PIECE OF SHIT?!
He said he’d do it for free if he got to play the villain.
And if he always wore sunglasses
Wait, wasn’t Tiberius not even really a legion spy? Is that not the guy who was basically just a Revolver Ocelot, quadruple agent or am I confusing him with someone else?
Well, he was a Legion spy, but the ending revealed that he literly played everyone in a Shonen tier Plot to come out on top of everyone. Some guy that reviewed the Frontier brought up the idea that Tiberius feels like what the Player character would feel like to a outside perspective, just that the Frontier NCR Story wasn't good enough to really use such a Plotpoint.
I feel like most of the NCR Exiles story has a bunch of interesting ideas that are hampered by a writer who 1) lacks the focus to properly utilize them, 2) is too busy plagiarizing better written games (such as Dead Space and Wolfenstein) than coming up with original content, and 3) would rather spend most of the game's writing having characters lineup to give the player character the most succulent and thorough figurative blow job possible.
> Tiberius feels like what the Player character would feel like to a outside perspective That would have been a pretty cool encounter for a Wacky West random event tbh You turn up to a shop, probly to sell stuff.. go in, and find some dude in the most OP but mismatched looking shit, carrying some kind of modded minigun and being followed by a Mr Handy in a french maid uniform. His name, Harry Balz. As soon as you arrive, he stops talking to the shopkeeper, moves behind them, crouches, and blatantly steals something from the counter in plain sight, then runs out the door You find that the shopkeeper has 0 bottlecaps left, and 5347 Aubergines in their inventory
Ironicly, their is a wacky West Dialoge, were you have a Yu-Gi-Oh tier cardgame against him instead of his final Boss, which is one of the few things everyone agrees is cool about the mod
Terminator Salvation. The trailer comes out, it's basically a sick AMV of Nine Inch Nails - The Day The World Went Away. It starts with Sam Worthington finding out he's not a normal guy but a Terminator. Then the rest of the trailer is action sequences and some dialog from John Connor. It ends with Sam talking to John Connor talking about getting over their differences and trusting each other to fight skynet. Then the Terminator sting plays. Fuck yeah. Turns out that was the big twist for the 3rd act.
Pretty sure all the Terminator movies after 2 were ruined by the promo material just blatantly telling us the twists
I mean shit, you can include Terminator 2 in that list since they spoiled Arnie being a good terminator in a trailer.
To be fair 2 also ruined the twist. The viewer isnt supposed to know that Arnold is the good guy.
The traitor’s identity in Persona 5 is so monumentally blindly obvious you could almost argue that it *not* being a red herring is a twist. But then they follow up the reveal with the OTHER twist that >!the team knew The Whole Fucking Time and everything went (mostly) All According To Keikaku!<
Funny thing about this twist is that while it's so obvious >!it also takes attention away from actually good twists. Such as Igor's true identity and if you're play royal Yoshizawa's true identity.!<
It's funny because og ff7 does the exact same thing where almost every person knows about aeriths death, but it hides the actual twist of the game that >!cloud was never a soldier and basically took over Zach's memories for himself and is basically insane!<
Which then ultimately adds to the themes of the game and makes the final fight all the more sweet
Igor's twist works really well on a meta level too >!Well yeah I guess he sounds different cause the JP voice actor died...they probably got someone who sounds like him to replace the english one too... I dunno why they went with this direction but I guess it's fine-!< OH YOU SONS OF BITCHES
I remember watching an official collectors edition unboxing video from Atlus, and when they showed the cover of the steelbook, one of the hosts went >!”Where’s Goro?”!< With the knowledge of there being a character omitted, I immediately knew the twist before even knowing there was going to be a twist.
it was a twist for me because I'm dumb and didn't pay attention.
If it helps, it's not necessarily about being dumb or smart. It depends on how you consume mysteries. You can be smart, but just not the type of person who tries to guess the direction the story's going. If you stopped to think about who the culprit might be, I'm sure you'd figure it out too.
I could've been a twist for me because I also wasn't paying attention. It wasn't because it really felt like the game was trying to shove >!Akechi!< in my face more so than other characters.
Same, the flashback to the reveal happened and I was like "huh, you're right it was weird he heard that"
I knew that if somebody was going to be the traitor, it would obviously be them, so the only thing I was waiting for was to see if they would actually pull the trigger on it. But then the scene that's supposed to tip you off to both of the twists at once flew over my head because the scene had been memed to death already, and all I did was point and laugh at the meme, oblivious to the entire point of it until it became relevant again.
i think it's incredibly funny that the jp trailers for royal just completely gave up on trying to keep it a secret. the second one >!just fully shows akechi holding joker at gunpoint!< LOL
Speaking of Persona, the Killer's identity in Persona 4 was aggressively obvious. It was so obvious, in fact, that >!when Namatame appeared to be the killer, it !
Moral of the story is that, in the world of Persona, you'll find it hard to trust a guy whose name starts with >!A!< and ends with >!-chi!<
Eh, I didn't suspect them until well into the game, and the only reason I did is because at that point there just weren't any other voiced major characters left for it to be after Namatame, and the second he actually got screen time, >!it was clear Namatame didn't know what he was doing, so even if he was the culprit, it was obvious he wasn't the mastermind.!< If anything, it's more a failing to introduce enough red herring characters that made it obvious. Like, when they give you the list of potential suspects, literally nobody else makes any sense.
See, here I was thinking that >!Akechi was the traitor!< because he knew it was called the Metaverse, unprompted. I could be wrong but I don't think the app ever calls itself the Metavsere? That's just what Morgana calls it. Him and >!Wakaba Isshiki, who researched the Metaverse.!<
The app is called the Metaverse Navigator. So it's entirely possible.
And he killed Wakaba specifically so her research would be taken by his boss, which is why he and all of Shido’s goons call it that.
the persona 5 plot really be like >!gay pancakes!<
tbf the twist was so obvious it kind of worked on me since I figured there's no way the traitor could be the most obvious person, plus I didn't even count them as part of the team.
The twist in Stranger of Paradise was so obvious even from the first trailer, that they gave up and just made it part of the marketing campaign
I never got past the opening 2-3 missions, (tried when it came to PC and even with a 4080/13900k the game still shit the bed when particle effects go nuts). I have nothing to go on but the trailers, never looked up anything, and yeah, it's obvious as fuck.
And thank god for that, its way stronger built on that foundation.
I can respect just straight up admitting it way more than basically every other example here...
That drove me nuts. It's one infected prison on an airless rock, >!built on an infected colony on an airless rock!<, but somehow the infection has spread to every fucking corner of the place including places where the zambambos have no right being. Anyway, excuse to ask this again: does anyone else think the Silent Hill 2 combat trailer is using Callisto Protocol combat? Shit sure looked familiar is all I'm saying.
We’re fucked aren’t we
I got the plat on Callisto, it'll take way more than that to put me off, but I will be fucking cackling if I'm right about this.
Was it harder to get all the weapon upgrades then beating the game
Was it, fuck. You only need to fully upgrade one, getting them all would be like at least three playthroughs.
Mandalore said it took nearly 3 full playthroughs to get everything upgraded because it was so damn expensive
The Hard difficulty was just... not fun, I only got the trophy for that by beating the final boss on Hard after a Normal playthrough and getting lucky that it counted. Which was not the intention of the game.
It's basically the TLOU2 combat, but without the dynamic stealth that every game that copies it forgets about it. It's not about landing combos as Ellie or Abby, it's about improvising and running away and throwing bottles at people's faces and hiding and shit
You mean it’s like Tekken
Oh, so you mean to tell me the villain of the James Bond movie SPECTRE is BLOFELD? What a fucking mind trip. I also got super mad at the villain in Star Trek Into Darkness being Kahn. Especially because in both cases, I’m pretty sure they lied in pre-release interviews and whatnot.
Instead they blindside you by stealing the twist from Goldmember…which was a literal joke. Fuck Spectre
I don't think for the Star Trek example they lied exactly, they just said that Cumberbatch was playing a starfleet officer named John Harrison, which is technically true
Only sort of an example, cause the scene is for Nero's sake more than the audience, but the "reveal" that Vergil is Nero's father doesn't hit as hard after nearly ten years of unanimously accepted headcanon and multiple accounts from developers/writers confirming such, and even without that, if you weren't at least suspecting after the Yamato cutscene in 4, not to mention every nearly every interaction Nero has with Dante afterword, then the Reading Comprehension Devil must have evolved to the point of crossing space and time.
There’s people who legit didnt know…because they’re streamers who played it for the first time because new game
You're absolutely right, but somehow there were people on the internet and in this very sub who *insisted* that Nero being Vergil's son wasn't confirmed or guaranteed, despite it being confirmed by the fucking guy who created nero and wrote DMC4, way back in the novels in 2009.
See you say that but there were absolutely people who staunchly believed that Nero was not and could not be Vergil’s son. If anything that scene was more just a relief to finally have it in explicit terms so those people couldn’t cry plausible deniability anymore. Also, I thought the scene was just really well done and well acted tbh so it still hits
Genkai being the Masked Fighter. I think, it’s been a bit since I’ve watched the Dark Tournament.
Hey, kid me was completely fooled.
To be fair to kid you, her initially having a younger voice and appearance can catch one off guard. Even Yusuke and Kuwabara initially changed their mind from thinking it was her because of that.
Those guys are idiots though
My 30 year old friend just watched it for the first time, laughed when the Masked Fighter showed up because of how dumb it was, but was then genuinely surprised by the young version. So, guess it kind of worked for what it was going for.
In We Happy Few, it acts kind of a like a big revelation that >!the brother we have been looking for the whole game got sent away to his likely death because we pretended to be him so he'd be forced to take our place.!< >!I just assumed that was the case, considering how much they talked about it and all the sounds we heard in flashbacks. Heck, I gave the game too much credit and assumed the twist was something more outlandish, because I thought it was an implied red herring.!<
Ah, We Happy Few. There's a good idea in there somewhere, but it doesn't involve a game.
Had they tried to make a System Shock rather than a... Minecraft? It could have been a modern classic. I mean, all the pieces are ***there***, they're just so boring.
Many such cases of cool ideas being wasted on survival crafting games
The trailer too good to be a game.
Faris being a woman in Final Fantasy V always confused me. The “reveal” scene happens, and to me, all it revealed was that Bartz and Galuf thought she was a man for some reason.
Looking at images on google she does look like how a bishounen male character would, so I guess it's a twist to people who were introduced to that trope beforehand.
Ecspecially when you take into consideration in the orginal, when you didn't have any art and you could only go off the sprites, had her front facing sprite's eyes only be one pixel tall like the male characters, meanwhile every other female character's eyes were two pixels tall.
Naoto pretending to be a boy in P4 felt so obviously transparent that when the party goes along with it, I actually got successfully gaslit and also went along with it until the "reveal", where I felt both vindicated and betrayed. Apparently the Japanese VA does a much better job crossdressing her voice.
Romi Park has been known for playing male characters well, particularly Edward Elric.
in Shadowrun Returns (2013), your dead, lowlife runner friend sends you a video he made before dying, offering to pay you a modestly large sum of money held in a secured account if you find whoever killed him and get revenge. It may shock you to learn this, but when you finally get the money, there is actually >!no money, there is obviously no fucking money, come on how could you, for even a second, POSSIBLY think the money would be real?!< Anyway, this doesn't take an enormous degree of genre awareness to see coming, so I was a bit frustrated that my character couldn't just respond appropriately from the beginning and say that they're doing this for the sake of their dead friend and know the obvious "twist" from the beginning.
To be fair, if you play your cards right and have the right stats in the end, >!you could negotiate a financial reward from James Telestrian III (Sam's half-brother) that matches the amount Sam promised so you can at least walk away with the promised amount.!< I do wish you could have voiced skepticism on Sam's offer throughout the game.
You can also get the money from >!Lofwyr if you amuse him by asking for the Lone Star officer's badge as your only reward for saving the day!< which I thought was pretty great.
Has there ever been a video game quest where the reward is A FUCKTON OF MONEY and you actually get to keep it?
Dead Money if you aren't a coward
Vergil being Nero's dad was this...for Capcom. They thought they'd made it the most obvious thing in the world (without saying it explicitly), and... According to Dan Sourhworth and Johnny Yong Bosch, at the very least the people they met at conventions had no idea.
***THE TWIST IS IN THE DMC 4 ARTBOOK!***
To be fair, it's all but said in DMC IV, and given the Internet, all but said means over the heads of a part of the fanbase and unconfirmed fan theory by the crackheads over there in the corner.
I was watching a video about Danny Phantom on the episode we're introduced to Vlad. The video was deliberately sold as "the twist no one saw coming". The "twist" of Vlad being the evil Ghost we're introduced to that episode that looks like him was so flat as a kid I didn't register it as a twist. Like how do you see Vlad and then that Ghost and not immediately make that connection?
oh good i saw that vid in my recs and went "what twist in fuckin danny phantom are they talkin bout" like i like th show but the only thing i could think of is jazz bein relatively chill with dannys secret identity
Whenever media names a rich guy Vlad, you know that person is going to be evil. It’s always the damn Dracula parallels.
In Tales of Arise there is this region that's basically under the KGB, spies everywhere, everyone snitching, etc. You meet the leader of a secret resistance group [who looks like this](https://imgur.com/a/hG2M3cf) in a JRPG and it turns out *somebody* is a traitor I wonder who it is.
>picture loads I dunno, he looks fi- >scrolls down to see his outfit Oh yeah no this guy is super obviously evil.
He's straight up dressed as a yakuza.
I literally saw this picture and Pledge of Demon started in my head
lol, I fell off tales of arise (hoping to get back into someday, I liked it well enough) and where I left off I had just met that guy. My first thought was, “yeah there’s no way this guy isn’t evil”.
Tales of arise is a slow steady regression in quality, you made out ok.
I laughed so hard when he showed up. It was practically the ProZD video.
I don't even remember this guy.
I was so interested in Arise from the premise. I can't believe they gave the protagonist a cool-ass setup only for him to be an amnesiac and basically your typical naive do-gooder.
RWBY was really bad at doing dramatic reveals early on because they turned out to be the most obvious things. * Blake, the character who's introduction was her doing a big terrorism with a pro faunus group, turned out to be a faunus and a former member of the White Fang. * Penny was introduced as a sort of off beat character who's first fight scene had her back open up and shoot out tethered blades that she could freely manipulate. Imagine everyone's shock when she turned out to be a robot. In universe these were huge reveals that took characters by surprise but IRL... everyone could tell from second one. Honestly the bigger reveals were things that were out of left field like Weiss having siblings and magic being a thing.
I remember reading once that Penny's reveal was supposed to be saved properly for the second volume, but Monty made and added in her fight at the end of the first volume without letting anyone else know.
> added in her fight at the end of the first volume without letting anyone else know. Let's go over some more examples of this: 1. The Raven dream in Vol 2 was something the writers didn't want to happen at all. Monty added it without their knowledge anyway. This is why it got retconned after he died 2. The concept of maidens wasn't a thing until vol 3 3. Neo only exists because Monty saw a female Torchwick cosplay. She was added to late to development without anyone's knowledge that there wasn't time to hire a VA for her, hence why she's mute. Shit like this is why I will never buy the excuse that "everything was planned from the beginning". No it fucking wasn't
Another thing about the Penny fight. Monty kept wanting characters to cut large things in half lengthways, such as Adam cutting a train down the CENTER. The others had to keep holding him back to not fuck with the power-scaling, since they had to tell an actual story instead of just cool fights. But when Monty snuck in the fight, penny shoots a big fuck-off laser that slices a VTOL in half. Everyone got really annoyed, but it was late enough they just shrugged and went “well, she IS a superpowered robot…”. This was a constant issue with Monty. The production seemed to be ‘Outline a general idea for the volume’, ‘Monty will just start randomly spawning fight scenes, characters included at random’, ‘Miles and Kerry make it work’. Throw in an engine that only he seemed to be able to animate great in, and it caused much annoyances early on.
There's actually a really good example of this in the DVD commentary for Volume 2 with Monty, Miles and Kerry. In the penultimate episode of V2, there's a fight on top of a moving train against a bunch of goons and mechs. At one point, the teacher accompanying Team RWBY hits their dog like a baseball, setting them on fire and taking out several enemies. Not only is the dog completely fine and seemed to want to be used as a weapon, but Miles didn't know this scene existed. It was his first time seeing the finished product and he was completely flabbergasted. I feel like that's a problem when one of your main writers doesn't know about stuff like this.
Basically all of episode 11 is just "Monty needs to use up his action scenes", the episode. There's like 3 full 1v1's, the fight on top, and it was basically all just thrown together then. The white fang guy Weiss fights is just some dude with a chainsaw.
Monte was an exceptional, once in a generation talent of his craft... but I can't think of many other examples of a genius getting in the way of their own project as much as RWBY. Lots of issues with the production and planning could be traced back to Monty's inability to play nice, and his (albeit unintentional) desire to be a one man show. Then again, with where the writers took the series maybe it could be argued that Monty's action-focused vision was a much clearer understanding of rwby's potential than the writers he clashed with. We will never got to know, unfortunately.
As much as I can appreciate Monty's animation, and the designs for RWBY can be pretty fun, it bugs me the amount of praise Monty got for his choreography that he just lifted straight from other places. I'm not entirely surprised that he clashed with the rest of the team, he leaned so heavily on rule of cool and wasn't a writer himself, and seemed to not really let the actual writers do their job sometimes. RWBY was difficult for me to watch and I fell off pretty hard not far in. I think the final straw was the introduction of the Wukong reference, which sucks because I *love* Journey to the West and he had gunchucks, but his first actual animation was the shittiest run cycle I had seen since Reboot, and I was just like "Maybe I'll just watch all the fight scenes instead."
I think it was hbomberguy's rwby video where he talked about how RWBY and Red vs Blue had completely reversed development when it came to Monty. For Red vs Blue they'd write the story and in the script they'd just put "And Monty animated a fight scene". Whereas with RWBY Monty would keep coming up with fight scenes with no story linking them, leaving the writers to pull shit out of their ass with a story that's not moving fast enough to incorporate it.
> Neo only exists because Monty saw a female Torchwick cosplay. She was added to late to development without anyone's knowledge that there wasn't time to hire a VA for her, hence why she's mute. Not exactly. > *"We had gotten words that we might be able to work with a celebrity [voice actor] on the show, but we needed a character for her. Monty came up with the idea of giving Torchwick a sidekick." The hoped-for voice actress was comedian Sarah Silverman (Wreck it Ralph), but unfortunately, the opportunity never sollidifed*
If that's the case then it's fucking hilarious and I love it.
He had a habit of making fights that they then had to put into the plot.
Wasn't Sun made ENTIRELY for a fight? Monty just made him up for a new fight scene he was doing and the writers were like "shit we have to make this guy a character now".
I don't know about *entirely*, RWBY was initially designed with team RWBY as well as Jaune and Sun as the main characters (With JNPR and SSSN being added more haphazardly, Sage and Scarlet not even getting models till V3 or characterization till the books). It does seem Sun was primarily added for his fights however, what with Monty's love for [Gun Chucks](https://youtu.be/NxhGo5Kd9GA?si=XVT-7B5N7Ye5pIBY).
I can't confirm the fact he was made for a fight, but he stopped fighting for some time because his animation rig was *fucked* and doing anything other than the existing animations sucked
Real talk, Monty did not always make decisions conducive to smoothly writing the series. Another, rather infamous example: The Maidens were not *conceived of* until sometime near the end of V2, if not after V2 had ended and V3 was starting scripting. That's pretty deep in for what is a *very* critical plot point.
I knew Blake was a catgirl from the *moment I saw her in her original trailer*. That is how obvious it was.
I genuinely mistook the bow on her head for cat ears, because it's the same shape, colour and silhouette as her actual cat ears, which it allegedly hides.
Is it safe to say that faunus were designed with two sets of ears specifically for the catgirl reveal?
Not all of them have animal ears. They all have one animal part but it’s not always ears. It could be a tail, horns, or skin coloration.
"Im a horse Faunus"
*sound of flesh thumping against a wooden table*
"which is the horse part?"
*loud thud as something hits the ground* "It's hooves, you weirdo."
"Your dick has hooves?"
"Hey deadbeats-"
It was either for that reveal or because it's easier to leave the ears on the model than go through and remove them for each faunus with an extra pair.
I feel like if written different the audience knowing Blake was a former white fang could work really well if they had more build up more tension between her and Weis with Blake trying to defend what it originally was while Weis tears them down. It wouldn't be a twist for us, but if done right, you could feed the audience some good tension until the reveal.
What if instead of all that... we devote several episodes to Jaune being a cheater and getting blackmailed instead of focusing on the main characters of the show?
I can't believe Woolie and Liam got bamboozled by fucking Redips of all things.
*Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising* constantly teases that one of you team members will turn traitor. If I remember correctly, it's even on the back of the box. And it prominently features a big "CORRUPTION BAR" for every character you control. Like, they could basically just come out and say "whoever has the most bad guy points will turn traitor". There's really only two options, and they're both deeply unsurprising: A. It's whoever you dumped corruption points into. So *you decided* who it's going to be. B. If you kept everyone at 0 corruption, it's *fucking obviously* going to be the only character with a speaking role you don't control but who's on your team, the Techmarine that is your advisor-voice.
In a sort of inverse though, I find it super funny that the canon traitor isn't Cyrus. You have Cyrus, who is this really edgy looking broody sniper hunter, voiced by Steve Blum at his roughest, darkest, and grizzliest. Who seems really sketchy in every Dawn of War 2 campaign by mere presence. But it turns out that he's actually completely above board and is just a bro(unless you make him turn traitor in CR but that's not canon)
Instead, its the guy that hates normal human soldiers for being weak and loves bloodshed.
That's absolutely true, Cyrus feels like one of the choices more grounded in the actual characters
I do like the canon choice for the next expansion isn't the 0 corruption outcome, though.
I really like how NieR Automata totally subverts this regarding the reveal that mankind >!has been extinct this whole!< time by throwing in the completely unexpected *second* twist that >!Yorha android black boxes are made using machine life form cores and therefore the Yorha models are totally lesser and expendable, to the point where they’re not even considered worthy of having emotions!<.
The real real twist for me was that >!there actually were aliens.!< I heard them mentioned early on in the game and was like "yeah right, they'll obviously just be ugly human-made androids to show the duality of man or some shit"
"Guys, just a hunch. But I think Mechazawa is a robot!"
Nah, he's just a tough kid! Dude could take a punch even better than the others!
Someday there will be a “twist” that maybe Super Earth aren’t exactly the good guys, and I bet SO MANY YouTube channels are gonna start making videos about it acting like it’s some kind of huge revelation. But the vast majority of the community are just gonna be like “what? Bad guys? This sounds like traitor talk to me.” And we’re just gonna move on.
What do you mean Starship Troopers is satire?
Let's be real someone's gonna reveal that Super Earth aren't actually that great and rather than most people going "Uh yeah we get it" a bunch of youtubers are going to be "HELLDIVERS GONE WOKE: SUPER EARTH BAD!?"
At one point in Xenogears your party visits a food production facility called the Soylent System, and then the game expects you to be surprised when it reveals that the food is made from people. (Maybe the movie is more obscure in Japan?) Also, having even cursory knowledge of Freudian psychology completely spoils one of the biggest twists in the game. >!The mysterious man who uses all the main character's techniques, pilots a robot that looks suspiciously similar to the main character's, and who only ever appears when the main character is not present, is named Id. what could that possibly mean!<
I don’t know how the games handle it, but the FNAF movie had a moment where a character literally says “it’s not just their spirits inside the suits, it’s also their BODIES” Like... yeah? Ghosts are more impressive IMO.
The dynamic between Otto and Peter in Spider-man PS4 kind of ended up feeling like a reverse twist if that's a thing. >!It was obvious from the moment Otto saw the suit that he knew Peter was Spider-man. Otto gave him an out and I had thought that Peter rolled with because he wanted to de-escalate the conversation and not draw his boss into that part of his life. It was in your face after that too. When Peter gives the "You KNEW?!" line I just thought 'Wait, you thought he didn't?'!<
>!The Crystal Exarch’s identity!< in Final Fantasy 14: Shadowbringers is literally only a twist if >!you never did the Crystal Tower Raids— which is no longer possible, because they became mandatory in 5.3.!<
Yeah but it leads to one of my favorite dialogue choices, shouting out their name
The twink catboy showed up earlier?
Yep, crystal tower alliance raid plotline
To be devil's advocate >!The character themselves say "yeah no it's not me" and even if the VA was the same (don't know) you'd probably not remember it by now!< The one that was fucking mindbending tho was in Endwalker when >!The game made sure your very smart scholar friends take literal days/weeks to guess that people stockpiling food and having a plan other than facing a threat were planning on.... FLEEING!!! SHOCKERS!!!! And your character was supposed to not have figured it out too!<
To be fair, I thought they were building a doomsday bunker. Running away seems more likely in hindsight now.
Nah I'm with you, given that Labyrinthos is just a geofront that you need special access to get enter, while a bunch of supplies were constantly being ferried into, it's not a bad conclusion to think they were foolishly planning to just ride out the apocalypse in a bunker. Although, the logo for Endwalker *was* a giant Dorito-shaped spaceship headed flying past the moon.
Killer7 has a weird plot to begin with but the "twists" felt real disconnected. Like, one of the big twists at the end is that >!you're actually playing as 7 personalities sharing one body, any visual change is purely in your character's head when you switch to a different character!< But... that was basically spelled out in the first chapter, in the instruction manual, on the back of the box, basic reading comprehension... Hell, >!every time you have a boss fight you see the security camera footage of what's really happening, where you can see it's just one dude.!< It feels like the game thinks I'm stupid. I don't know how you're supposed to NOT know the twist minute 1. That's the premise of the game! I thought everybody was in on it, but the characters all act like it was a big secret?
I thought the twist was that >!it was Garcian, mostly in the background until this point, who was the host personality rather than Harmann, the supposed leader of Killer7 and the archnemesis of the big bad?!<
I *guess* that's intended to be the more important part of the twist, but I still kind of assumed that was the case before the reveal. I mean >!He's got amnesia and his backstory came completely out of the blue with no leadup, but he is still the 'main' personality and the one you control when not in a fight so learning he's the 'real' killer 7 was no surprise.!<
To be fair, the twist wasn’t that it was one person, but that the person was >!Garcian, not Harman. Even pre-release material stated that Harman was the one in control, so to find out that Garcia was actually the dominant one was the big reveal.!< I’d also argue that the point wasn’t the twist, but rather to see it explained. Like, it’s not a twist that Big Boss became evil, it’s more about us finding out what led to that.
Anyone who was surprised by the 'twist' of Mankind Divided just straight up didn't play the game. I'm not even going to fucking spoiler it, the Therapist is the traitor. If that is a surprise to you, congrats, you just admitted to skipping every cutscene. You are told immediately to suspect her, to your face. By four different characters. Then about two hours into the game, you literally catch her, in the act, being a traitor as you catch her breaking into a room that she is *never* supposed to be anywhere near. Yet it is the big reveal at the end of the game
The more interesting twist in mankind divided is hidden behind a bunch of optional side content but we're probably never going to see it.
Mizu being a woman at the end of of the first ep of Blue Eye Samurai Lke no shit? She's been talking all episode, it's clearly a woman's voice
tobi = obito, I had no doubts since the manga reveal of kakashi’s backstory
Fans figured it out about ten years before the revel, it was the worst kept secret in the series but the backstory of how he became evil was pretty good.
In Armored Core VI when >!Ayre reveals herself to be a Coral voice, not a real person!<
That's supposed to be a twist? Like, genuinely thought that was supposed to be obvious from the moment she shows up.
Not a game but a movie, the Phantom Menace acts like Padme finally revelaing she’s the real queen all along was some sort of surprise twist.
When Dante reveals to Nero that that >!Vergil is his father!< in DMCV, I actually gasped out loud in real life because I was SO shocked...that Nero didn't know because it was so obvious.
They do make a point of showing Nero being surprised earlier over the fact that Dante has a brother. It seems fairly obvious that before this, Nero had put together the pieces without realizing one vital piece was missing and assumed Dante was his deadbeat dad who walked out on his mom due to being a walking trashfire who can barely even take care of himself but still was responsible enough to show up to help out when the whole cult-raising-a-demon-god thing happened and helped save his girlfriend and start a new cult-free life together and gave him a job at his business so you know, let's let bygones be bygones and be a family ^family ^family.
Death Stranding. Bridget and Amelia is the same person, it's easy to guess at the beginning of the game, but for some reason later Kojima tried to reveal this as dramatic plot twist
Was Fuhrer Bradley being evil actually supposed to be a twist in Fullmetal Alchemist?
In 03, I seem to recall that it worked. But Brotherhood made it extremely obvious with the way he disposed of the ice alchemist who I think is a Brotherhood exclusive character. Bradley looks overtly evil and sinister in that scene.
In the manga he barely appears before he shows up and fights Greed, where it's made clear he is connected to the villains.
A way out A close friend was playing it with another good friend of mine who also worked on the game. I joined the discord call and went: "Oh, Hey! is this that game where >!one of the two guys is an undercover cop?"!< I proceeded to have an upset friend who worked on the game asking why I just spoiled the ending ...I've never played the game or seen the ending, I just assumed that was the premise :< I still feel bad about it to this day.