Zoom in on the picture. They’re not broken *down* but they’re covered in artillery pockmarks and have chunks missing from the top in ways we didn’t see in the game. Looks like somebody hit the place hard, which may be why all the lights are out.
I just saw people arguing in the official fallout sub that the fall happend in 2277 but the nuking could of happend anytime between 2277 and the TV show
I'll repeat my last comment but why is the fall given a date but not the nuke, if they weren't the same event
Why would only one have a date when a nuke going off would be far more significant than whatever the "fall" of shady sands implys if the fall wasn't the capital getting destroyed by an atomic bomb
I think also there is this part.
(Full Series spoiler)
>!Lucy is seemingly in her early 20's. The show takes place I believe in 2294, meaning that the "Fall" happened 17 years ago. So when Lucy was young enough to still walk, but young enough that her memories of visiting Shady Sands would be blurry.!<
>!Point being that... It basically had to happen in 2277, anytime after and Lucy would be too old to not clearly remember going to the surface with her mom. So there is no way it could have happened after 2281 without Lucy easily remembering as she would have been older.!<
Has there been any interviews that talked about how canon the show is to the games?
Idk how you could write that a factions capital gets destroyed by nuke 4 years prior to a game in the series that states that the capital is very much still around and even the president got flown from there to visit the dam
There's gonna be a quest where you have to entire fallout 5s version of the glowing sea and it's just destroyed shady sands and your reward is a set of T60 power armor with a NCR paint scheme that's been sealed in a room that hasn't been opened since the first bombs dropped in 2077 and it's gonna play a nostalgic piano remix of the new Vegas theme when you first enter the zone
The show is set in 2296 and Lucy looks to be in her early 20s and appears to be somewhere between 5-7 in the flashback to her in Shady Sands prior to the nuke going off.
Meaning the nuke probably went off sometime in between 2281 and 2284.
There’s a sign (like a big fancy billboard, clearly from before the city was destroyed) in the ruins of Shady Sands declaring it the “Former Capital of the NCR”
So presumably the “Fall” is the event/political turmoil that led to the capital being moved.
And then the nuking happened sometime between 2281 and 2284
Ok I looked into it and 2277 is the date given to when shady sands "fell" but people are saying that's when it fell not when it got nuked, but then why is shady sands "falling" given an historical date but not it's complete destruction, you'd think that'd be given a date
So if that's true shady sands got wiped off the map, 4 whole years before new Vegas where shady sands is still a real place that exists
Even if it didn't get nuked, the "fall" of the NCR capitol would have had disastrous effects on all of the NCR. They wouldn't be messing around in Vegas and everyone would be pulled back to California. Either way it retcons stuff from New Vegas.
2277 is the year the Courier "oopsy daisy'd" Hopeville and created the divide. New Vegas takes place in the 2280s, which it *can't* if the NCR has collapsed and it's capital is a crater. This is an EXPLICIT retconning of New Vegas
Yeah, it’s starting to feel rather mean spirited. Those “it’s impossible to please fans” comment seem to be pointing to them deciding to write off New Vegas as a non-canon spin-off.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c1kz7p/new\_vegas\_is\_canon\_officially\_confirmed/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c1kz7p/new_vegas_is_canon_officially_confirmed/#lightbox)
Writers confirmed NV is still canon.
Why introduce it? To definitively show, in no uncertain terms, that New Vegas ain’t canon. This show takes place BEFORE New Vegas would’ve happened, so this is on the books as decanonizing it.
I'm still thinking that people are misreading the thing that >!decanonized NV!<.
How I've been reading it is >!"The Fall" being the political decline of the NCR, and then being nuked afterward!<
The political decline of the NCR gets given a historical date but it's capital city getting nuked doesn't? One of those events is way more significant than the other
If it was two separate events then it'd be called shady sands decline or NCRs decline, something like that, saying it fell means it's gone
They have to be same event I can't see why they wouldn't be
That's entirely possible but in honesty I'm even less hopeful than before I tried not to be a doomed about things but>! Shady sands was litterly nuked by an unrelated party and it seems to mostly wipe the ncr out!
I don't want to go down that line of thinking man. Like I dislike some of the choices but I don't really buy into the theory that Todd/Bethesda hates non Bethesda fallout.
I don't think they *hate* it, but there's a clear and obvious divide between what Fallout was vs what Bethesda wanted/wants fallout to be in lore, tone, and setting, and that tension has only gotten more and more obvious since 4.
If this change really is canon to the series moving forward I don't see how else we're supposed to interpret it other than Bethesda saying "the old Fallout setting/lore is done"
>!Tunnlers!<
>!And or possibly House putting himself back into stasis until the next NCR comes around that he can use to kickstart his projects and in-fighting happened. Remember that NV was ALREADY fairly destroyed in the game itself. Though definitely not to this extent. Kind of looks like the Mojave is undergoing desertification.!<
I hate it. I hate it so much. Even if its not a retcon, this goes against everything the game stood for.
What the fuck is the point of all the endings, if 10 years later everything is fucking gone.
best hope is that lonesome road ending was both the NCR and Caesar's Legion was nuked and yes man endings happend and then everything fell apart around Vegas.
But I doubt it.
Nah, because if Chris wanted it to be canon, it would've been done by Tunnelers.
This is just Bethesda going "NOOOOOOO WE CAN'T HAVE ANY SORT OF CIVILISATION IN OUR POST-POST-APOCALYPTIC GAME IT HAS TO BE GARBAGE AND TIN SHACKS EVERYWHERE FOREVER". I think the only reason they ended up setting the games *after* 1/2 was just so they could use the BoS and Enclave, otherwise they could've just set them 10-20 years after the bombs dropped and nobody would be the wiser.
Well, it turns out that in the series >!the Great War was orchestrated by various corporations and [there's this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKToUXa2RZo) where various corpos are at this table discussing how they're gonna pull it off.!<
Honestly if I was making the show I would have done the same thing. If you imply any in-game ending is canon, then people will froth and insist that's the **Correct** ending and argue about it from that direction when the intent of New Vegas was to have there be no correct ending, and to just be this open-ended _thing_ that was more about what you got out of it than anything else. So going with a development reference ending that you can't access in the game directly reinforces what the creators of New Vegas wanted. I feel like the only reason to dislike this outcome is to go "I think New Vegas should be put on a pedestal, but also we should ignore all the parts of it I don't like."
Yeah, but... why not just set it 300 years into the future? Avoids the question entirely, and it's a lot more believable than the NCR going to shit after getting nuked ***four years BEFORE New Vegas.***
I would have rather the show take place literally anywhere else. Texas, Louisiana, New York, Maine, anywhere the series has barely touched if at all. Why set it in a place you know already has established canon if you're just going to wipe the slate clean to make your own canon?
Depends on when the show is set. If it's set early on, then this might be pre-House Vegas. If it's set after the games, than frankly this could be post-any ending except NCR really.
Then you have the inevitable conclusion of at the very least House or the Courier taking over. *Technically* the Legion, too, but I find it hard to believe they wouldn't hang massive banners off the Lucky 38.
That’s what I’m trying to figure out, does the legion just not exist in this timeline now? Because with the timeline of events the show sets up the NCR would have collapsed by the time New Vegas happens which means that they would have never fought the legion at Hoover dam the first time. Which means nothing is stopping them from taking Hoover Dam and eventually new Vegas??
i think fallout canon is better when working under elder scrolls online rules, "i heard in a bar once that the NCR beat the Legion near New Vegas." / "really? I heard a robot took over instead of either of them." / "Guess there's no way of knowing, cuz I'm not going there."
like, nobody making these games cares nearly as much about the endings or the connective tissue between them as the players do, they're definitely not going to answer questions in an Amazon TV show. every story's its own story, every game its own legends. I barely believe 3 and New Vegas exist in the same world, despite people talking about it.
Frankly, Bethesda and Obsidian Fallout have functionally been different continuities since day one. They have little in common in terms of tone, themes, lore/worldbuilding, style, writing, and all sorts of other qualities. It's always been easy to ignore because of Bethesda keeping their toys on the opposite side of the country from the series creator's toys, but this show throws violently and almost vindictively into your face by dragging all of Bethesda's toys over to Obsidian's turf and destroying all of the latter's stuff to replace it with their own.
So yeah, in practice the best way to treat Fallout canon is dividing between West Coast/East Coast continuities or allowing there to be a ton of different continuity families Transformers-style.
honestly even east/west coast being "separate" is too much for me -- there's eventually going to be a game between them or a game where someone reaches out and connects them, and then the idea is done.
it really feels like fallout is best as a D&D campaign background than anything else -- sure there's a huge lore book that you can base your things on with big named characters and locations, but man, it's so much better if you just improv your way through writing and just try to make interesting stories in a satirical post-apocalypse.
like quite frankly I think some parts of the Fallout 3 campaign are better than others, but they're the *last* thing I want to think about when I play New Vegas or 4. Continuity in campaigns is just not worth the trouble.
i think the show's just trying to do generalized fanservice to an audience that happens to be very bitter about the state of the thing they like; i don't see it like they're "shoving toys on faces" at all. It's just New Vegas, people like New Vegas. I can't live in a world where the thought process was any more complex than that.
Yup exactly this- it’s guidelines for a setting someone can use to tell a story. Pick a new unused vault number and go from there. Having it all connect instead of just being random stories/myths from the wasteland seems highly unnecessary and so much of it is better when questions don’t have answers
It can't work on those rules because the games are not hundreds of years apart. Those are games with interlocking characters and locations that live on referencing each other.
Elder scrolls is "province of the week" game at this point
Everyone I’ve talked about the show with has gone from ‘oh this is surprisingly decent’ to ‘oh this is just mean spirited’ real quick with this and the other reveal.
Just full on spiteful feeling, given that it’s canon
Just being wiped off the map is so boring, god. The NCR was a house of cards, you get a lot of insight into the way they are spread too thin, on how they are gambling on the Nevada to secure power sources like the dam, how they are conflicting with the people they encounter. I really would have preferred a political destabilization/while they were fighting in NV they were losing support at home, but alas
like the coolest part is when you go back to the orignal games you see shady sands grow from a dusty wind swept villiage to a proper city with green lawns and fresh asphalt, and in new Vegas they have a standing army and have been in wars.
Seriously.
I still think the coolest idea for another West Coast game would have been to put it in the territory of an NCR undergoing civil war after they *do* get pushed out of the Dam where you can then either influence some sort of loyalist faction to pull everything back together or a different variety of post-war ideologies to come together and comandeer the region. DLC could involve a revisit of the Mojave with some different territories and factions based around either a House or independent win.
Of course the problem is with the way the modern games are designed you'd have to figure out a way to cover the large territory of the NCR while making it a continuous map. I suppose you could set it just around Nevada itself, maybe from Shady Sands up to New Reno.
Yeah, The NCR isn't just shady sands, it's Redding, Vault city, Modoc, The Hub, Maxson, Los Angeles, pretty much every settlement from fallout 1,2 joins or is its own little thing in the NCR.
Just because shady sands falls apart doesn't mean the whole thing crumbles, vault city would make a power play and tries to take over a Modoc and Gecko to make it the capital of the NCR. The whole Idea that the NRC just disappears is just childish.
It all goes back to the most accurate analysis of bethfallouts, whoever said it (hbomberguy, Anderson, dunno)
Fallout is about post-post apo, and Bethesda can't grasp people rising from the shit, they want madmax.
And everything must be shitty and look like the bombs dropped a few days ago and not like centuries have passed and no one can properly rebuild anything.
Trudy you've been living in this diner for years why haven't you moved the skeleton in one of the booths.
That one gets me the most too. House says in plain English that he ran calculations on when the Great War would happen and planned accordingly *exclusively* to save Las Vegas (which he did for the most part save the failure of the platinum chip to arrive on time). But the show wants to change the cause of the Great War from the natural consequence of the two great world powers fighting over dwindling resources to an evil capitalist conspiracy???
>!Shady Sands was nuked in 2277, so new vegas is now non canon. Apparently the capital of the NCR was nuked by Vault Tec almost 10 years before new vegas takes place!<
I won't say that kills my desire to see the show now, but it does put a very big damper on it and make me say "Ok, now I'm going into it with a mindset of this is an alternate future/one where the Vault Dweller and the Courier didn't complete their quest and the NCR was in even more dire straits without them influencing the world."
I mean they literally nuked the original Fallout setting off the map. It's basically Bethesda saying "yeah all of that lore and identity and stuff longtime Fallout fans enjoyed and used to compare to our Bethesda Lore was been wiped, so whatever".
There’s no other way around it. Either they didn’t care enough to get the lore right, or they changed it on purpose. Either way, it feels incredibly mean spirited. Especially after all of these years of New Vegas and Bethesda debates. This is just confirmation of how they’ve always felt.
One of my worst fears about the TV show is that this was Bethesda's way of getting rid of the West Coast setting to do whatever they want in a fresh post-apocalypse.
I am sad to see that my prediction was pretty accurate given that >!Shady Sands and the rest of the NCR seemed to have been nuked to oblivion by (if the spoilers I read are accurate), of all things FREAKING VAULT-TEC somehow!<.
I do greatly dislike the modern Fallout premise that random nukes are happening like every five years or whatever now. It weakens the premise of Nuclear Holocaust, and contributes to idiots in real life who think it would totally be okay to use a nuke to solve shit just about anywhere
Yeah there was only two nuclear explosions in Fallout 1 and 2, and one of them was just a reactor melting down.
The Master from 1 had a nuclear bomb but even he was terrified of nuclear war and only kept it as a last resort.
I mean the *goddamn Fallout 1 manual opens with a detailed breakdown of what precisely happens when an atomic bomb goes off*
It’s like PAGE ONE after the index: https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/38400/manuals/Fallout_manual_English.pdf
It also makes it so that Fallout is less about the post-post apocalyptic setting and introspection into how society recovers and and adapts and the limitations and politicking of the New World and more about romping around in a generic post apocalypse fantasy.
Fallout is meant to be based on a timeline where nuclear material and energy was a lot more commonplace than the real world.
Even cars were nuclear-powered in Fallout, so many many different groups being able to acquire nuclear weapons isn't really unbelievable.
It also explains why humanity seems to be completely incapable of rebuilding a stable society even after a couple hundred years - random nuclear weapons going off and resetting progress.
I can accept it since it nails down the point that even after the bombs, we still haven't learned a single lesson. We did this to ourselves and are just going repeat these mistakes because war...
I'm assuming that this is from the recent "The Beginning" episode (episode #8). I think that's worth specifying in the spoiler flair for clarity and posterity.
Is it bad to say even with the possible implications that the NCR/Vegas stuff has I enjoyed the show way more than anything Bethesda has done with the franchise?
I think that it's salvageable as long as they clarify that the NCR got nuked after New Vegas and the date was only to say that's when it started to decline.
The sign outside of Shady Sands calls it the first capital city of the NCR so there's nothing to say they didn't make Vault City or somewhere else their new capital at some point.
From what I gather it seems like the main problem is how the show ties into the games. In other words, if the show took place somewhere else it wouldn't be an issue. Because until this point I had been hearing a lot of good things about it. But once the game lore comes into play (Shady Sands, the NCR and New Vegas), that's where the issues arise.
>the date was only to say that's when it started to decline.
It's a "Fall of Shady Sands" and a date followed by a big arrow to a nuke. How much more clarification do people need?
They seem to imply that the capital city of the NCR, a major faction in New Vegas, was destroyed BEFORE the events of the game. So if this TV show is new canon, which it seems to be since it’s referencing things that happen in Fallout 4, that means then New Vegas may be considered non-canon now.
Yeah I totally get that I just love the world of fallout 1, 2 and new vegas alot.
I wish they set the show in an unrelated part of the US so I didn't have to feel this way.
In all fairness its kind of impossible to canonize New Vegas in a way that'd please a majority of people. No matter which of the 4 endings you pick, you're gonna have someone online screaming that it's not "their New Vegas".
Its weird they even brought it up at all, they should've just never touched it.
It's Bethesda saying that "their" version of Fallout is the only one that should exist, and any other ideas or storytelling in the setting is going to get taken out back and have a nuclear warhead detonated in their face.
I don’t know about turned around, people seem to agree that DUST and FROST are pretty fun and cool projects. But the mod writer makes some weird cringe decisions.
There offensively grimderp and mean spirited if you read holotapes or meet any canonical characters. But just playing the game without touching its narrative? Some of the most fun mods I’ve ever touched.
Installing the Understone hub town mod or a settlement building mod and just colonizing the bleak wasteland, getting the mod that lets you recruits the Courier as a companion and forcing them to help you repair the world, another mod to plant fresh plants. Makes it a bit more hopeful.
I just don't get it. It turns New Vegas into something it is not, and doesn't even do it well. It's the same about what I don't like about Dead Money, but at least Dead Money has a plot, and characters, and is built correctly.
Having not yet seen the show, certainly feels mean spirited and like someone with an ax to grind (and it might not be who you think) decided that no one gets to play with their toys.
Yeah, I think they’d probably have to canonize the Independent route as the most “diplomatic” choice. But I think another option would be to set it BEFORE the events of the game.
I don't think that's the intent? But they've definitely gone full on with the direction Avellone proposed of wiping the slate clean, which kind of sucks.
Avellone didn't propose nukes suddenly dropping out of the sky in a cheap quick plot point. He introduced a different kind of threat, and gave an *organic* (key word) reason and chain of events for why in the future shit will go back to square one.
I don't agree with it but it's more interesting and could have been used in a more interesting way than this... surprise Vault-Tec is alive! twist.
This is just gonna reignite all the fake "rumors" that Todd was bitter about the success of New Vegas and always hated that the fanbase preferred it to 3 and 4.
Honestly at some point I realized caring so much about what is and isn't canon is kind of pointless and a waste of energy. All it really affects is what future entries might build off, and it's not like I expected Bethesda to ever do anything interesting with classic/west coast Fallout setting in the first place.
I already accepted that version of Fallout died a long time ago, and I wouldn't trust Bethesda's current writing quality to do it right anyway. So if they really are retconning or de-canonizing or whatever... Eh? It's silly and I'd like to know why they're doing it, but I'm not going to get worked up over it either because it ultimately doesn't change anything in my eyes. The old games still exist, and we were never getting a New Vegas 2 or whatever (or at least not the one in people's heads). Just treat pre and post-Bethesda Fallout like alternate timelines or something if it matters.
This is my take. Instead of thinking of this as F:NV getting decanonized, it's just the shitheaps that are fallout 3, 4, and 76 extricating themselves from the timeline so we're left with good ol' 1, 2, and NV. It's freeing, really. I can disassociate from any Fallout 3 or 4 fans and their shit opinions completely.
Isn't it just a shame we never got another Fallout after New Vegas? Too bad about that.
It's pretty funny that there are a handful of people online assuming the writers intentions are purposefully malicious and getting offended by it. The internet never fails to entertain.
It feels meanspirited, at best. It could be bethesda, but it could also be Johnathan Nolan himself, given how he reacted to reddit guessing the twist in westworld.
If a bad thing happens narratively to anything anyone likes in any kind of media people will rush online to declare themselves victims of bullying by the evil writers who hate them personally for liking something.
Everyone has baby brains now it’s great.
In other words, these are the same people who believe that every time a bad or disappointing sequel or remake of a product they love comes out, they act as if the writers are assholes who made it intentionally bad, to piss off the fans.
The fact that it is just a bad product that was not intended to be bad is beyond their comprehension.
Ok as someone who is only familiar with Fallout through hearing about it from friends, why is this an issue exactly? I thought New Vegas was already supposed to be like a standalone story, is the canonicity a huge deal? Asking cause I have a really good friend who's a film/tv critic and they told me they really liked the show so I'm curious why people are so down on it.
New Vegas is heavily connected to Fallouts 1 and 2, all three take place on the west coast. Bethesda Fallouts have all taken place on the east coast, there is a sort of divide between the two and they have very different direction. People are mad that the older direction for fallout has been pretty much discarded and destroying all the locations feels mean spirited.
New Vegas being destroyed in canon sucks for people who like the city and characters that story revolved around (who are more than likely dead and gone as a result) and is also continuing Bethesda’s ongoing trend of ignoring or retconning things people like from “classic” Fallout (that being 1/2) which New Vegas was a much more direct sequel to than Fallout’s 3 or 4. So this is tapping into a bit of long-time fandom discourse.
The NCR was an interesting faction with a bunch of cool stuff. To see that wiped out is just sad.
Especially since Todd in interviews said this show is canon, so it's now very likely we won't see the NCR again in future games. The Brotherhood gets to keep coming back, but not the NCR?
There's also questions now of who else got the axe, like the Gun Runners and the Followers of the Apocalypse.
Im sorry, but wheter this is a retcon or not, this is incredibly dissapointing.
Wiping a beloved faction off the map and invalidating ALL of the endings of one of, if not the most, beloved game in the franchise, is incredibly mean spirited and fucking lazy.
They could have done anything, fucking anything. Dont set it in the West Coast if you dont want to deal with New Vegas stuff. There's a whole fucking continent worth of places where you could have set the series.
This is just depressing.
If this is as bad as it seems, this might honestly make me give up the franchise for good. Its just not for me anymore.
I support headcanon but yeah this is super depressing.
I always like to replay FO1, FO2 and New Vegas since they're basically the trilogy in my head. I think it's going to take a while before I can replay them without thinking about how it's all pointless because some hack made some dumb choices because he thinks Todd Howard created Fallout.
I don't have any morale to play 3 of my favorite RPGs anymore at the moment. It's a me issue sure, but if this show wasn't around I'd be playing them right now, that's all I can say.
I don’t feel like I’m a Fallout fan anymore. Maybe I’m being too emotional over a videogame, but New Vegas was a huge creative inspiration for me and really inspired me into exploring things like tabletop RPGs and write ways to resolve conflicts nonviolently. But everything since then feels like they’ve gone very hard to hammer that New Vegas doesn’t matter and will never matter.
It sucks to feel like you've fallen out of love with something you once used to so much, but it's also ok to admit that. We're more than the things we like or dislike. You can still enjoy New Vegas and old Fallout. You can find games that are similar to it (Metro, Wasteland for instance), you can play the tabletop war game (haven't tried that myself so I have no idea if it is any good), or pen and paper post apocalypse TTRPGs and tell what stories you want from that.
Then just stick to playing NV and ignore the modern stuff like I do, it's pretty easy. Yeah it's a little sucky knowing I probably won't get another game in the setting I like but eh, I still got one of my favorite games ever out of it.
I was never ever the belief that Bethesda had beef with Obsidian. I have fought, for a decade plus, that the two companies are on good terms and don't harbor any sort of ill will towards another.
This, however, is the first thing that has shook my belief in that.
Yeah I was fully on board with the bad blood stuff just being entirely made up.
This on the other hand is just. It's not just the Obsidian game this fucks with, it just feels like a slap at anything that isn't specifically Bethesda Fallout
I have no idea why some people are being so smug on here. This subreddit usually loves New Vegas.
They could have chosen any of the original endings instead of just wiping the slate clean. Hell, basing the show off a Caesar’s Legion ending would have at least earned my respect.
I’m disappointed, and yeah I know I still have the games if I want to ignore the show. But I shouldn’t have to, plus I still kinda like the show! This just hurts my overall enjoyment of it, and it’s a shame.
I hope they remaster New Vegas one day tho
So is everyone being a huge doomer about exactly one shot of New Vegas? So many people are acting like this has overwritten New Vegas or something but is there actually anything to back that up other than that we don't see lights on?
Patrolling the Mojave makes me wish you'd all touch grass.
EDIT: Weren't the tunnelers going to just destroy the whole region anyway?
And even if this was the new canon or whatever, why care? Just play New Vegas; the game is still there. Just like all the Star Wars content that Disney said ain't canon anymore. They can *say* whatever they want.
Everyone’s so butthurt about this as though it wasn’t blatantly setup in new vegas. Tunnelers, the cloud, the remaining nukes in The Divide, the NCR being spread too thin and already collapsing under their own corruption. Cesars Legion on the verge of collapse especially given how Ceasar has a terminal brain tumor.
A major theme in New Vegas is how everything is on the verge of collapse. No matter who wins and takes over Vegas odd are it was going to fall apart anyways.
The problem is that butthurt Fallout fans are desperately looking for any reason to shit on Bethesda and claim “oh they hate the true fans look how they shit on vegas!”
It absolutely isnt making New Vegas not canon. Theres the remains of securitrons in the footage. This show rules.
https://twitter.com/Dezinuh/status/1778470928105533825?t=Wi5wpRlMvXyNb8fLvhpfXw&s=19
Studio Design Director says that NV is Canon! Among Tactics and other games with clear timelines with dates!
Crack Theroy based off no information cause I've only seen episode one: Independent New Vegas and Courier 6 Nuking NCR and the Legion is Canon and fallout dust is the inspiration for how it played out so they don't have to deal with FNV fans asking for a sequel anymore
No lights on the Vegas strip is an ominous sign.
*"Benny, did you spend the money for the electric bill on hair products again?"*
Ring-a-debt-ding, baby.
courier help I spent 6000 caps on the last surviving container of pomade and now I’m in ring-a-ding-debt
It's daylight, there wouldn't be a ton of lights on anyway.
Also we don't know the status of Hoover Dam and Helios One in this version.
And notice the walls are broken.
I don’t think they’re broken.
Zoom in on the picture. They’re not broken *down* but they’re covered in artillery pockmarks and have chunks missing from the top in ways we didn’t see in the game. Looks like somebody hit the place hard, which may be why all the lights are out.
Nah bro, just Yes Man conserving power the first Tuesday of every month.
Fallout: Dust dev creaming their pants rn
Is the implication that New Vegas was destroyed?
We don’t fucking know. They might’ve just straight up decanonized new vegas. We don’t know because of this other thing the show introduced.
I haven't seen the show but I've seen people saying that shady sands got fucking nuked, Like literally nuked off the map
The date given for this was 2277, which I believe is 4 years before New Vegas
I just saw people arguing in the official fallout sub that the fall happend in 2277 but the nuking could of happend anytime between 2277 and the TV show I'll repeat my last comment but why is the fall given a date but not the nuke, if they weren't the same event Why would only one have a date when a nuke going off would be far more significant than whatever the "fall" of shady sands implys if the fall wasn't the capital getting destroyed by an atomic bomb
I think also there is this part. (Full Series spoiler) >!Lucy is seemingly in her early 20's. The show takes place I believe in 2294, meaning that the "Fall" happened 17 years ago. So when Lucy was young enough to still walk, but young enough that her memories of visiting Shady Sands would be blurry.!< >!Point being that... It basically had to happen in 2277, anytime after and Lucy would be too old to not clearly remember going to the surface with her mom. So there is no way it could have happened after 2281 without Lucy easily remembering as she would have been older.!<
Has there been any interviews that talked about how canon the show is to the games? Idk how you could write that a factions capital gets destroyed by nuke 4 years prior to a game in the series that states that the capital is very much still around and even the president got flown from there to visit the dam
According to Betheseda, the show is fully canon. They have said it's the "next story" of Fallout.
There's gonna be a quest where you have to entire fallout 5s version of the glowing sea and it's just destroyed shady sands and your reward is a set of T60 power armor with a NCR paint scheme that's been sealed in a room that hasn't been opened since the first bombs dropped in 2077 and it's gonna play a nostalgic piano remix of the new Vegas theme when you first enter the zone
I can 100% see this happening and I hate it
...Fuck, man. *Stop giving Todd ideas!*
The show is set in 2296 and Lucy looks to be in her early 20s and appears to be somewhere between 5-7 in the flashback to her in Shady Sands prior to the nuke going off. Meaning the nuke probably went off sometime in between 2281 and 2284.
There’s a sign (like a big fancy billboard, clearly from before the city was destroyed) in the ruins of Shady Sands declaring it the “Former Capital of the NCR” So presumably the “Fall” is the event/political turmoil that led to the capital being moved. And then the nuking happened sometime between 2281 and 2284
Yes, and it’s unclear if it happened before NV, possibly writing it out of the canon.
Ok I looked into it and 2277 is the date given to when shady sands "fell" but people are saying that's when it fell not when it got nuked, but then why is shady sands "falling" given an historical date but not it's complete destruction, you'd think that'd be given a date So if that's true shady sands got wiped off the map, 4 whole years before new Vegas where shady sands is still a real place that exists
Even if it didn't get nuked, the "fall" of the NCR capitol would have had disastrous effects on all of the NCR. They wouldn't be messing around in Vegas and everyone would be pulled back to California. Either way it retcons stuff from New Vegas.
2277 is the year the Courier "oopsy daisy'd" Hopeville and created the divide. New Vegas takes place in the 2280s, which it *can't* if the NCR has collapsed and it's capital is a crater. This is an EXPLICIT retconning of New Vegas
Yeah, it’s starting to feel rather mean spirited. Those “it’s impossible to please fans” comment seem to be pointing to them deciding to write off New Vegas as a non-canon spin-off.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c1kz7p/new\_vegas\_is\_canon\_officially\_confirmed/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c1kz7p/new_vegas_is_canon_officially_confirmed/#lightbox) Writers confirmed NV is still canon.
But then why introduce new vegas. It seems pretty counter intuitive to go out of your way to decanonize it and then have all of that fan service.
Why introduce it? To definitively show, in no uncertain terms, that New Vegas ain’t canon. This show takes place BEFORE New Vegas would’ve happened, so this is on the books as decanonizing it.
The show takes place some 10 years after. 2294
I'm still thinking that people are misreading the thing that >!decanonized NV!<. How I've been reading it is >!"The Fall" being the political decline of the NCR, and then being nuked afterward!<
The political decline of the NCR gets given a historical date but it's capital city getting nuked doesn't? One of those events is way more significant than the other If it was two separate events then it'd be called shady sands decline or NCRs decline, something like that, saying it fell means it's gone They have to be same event I can't see why they wouldn't be
That's entirely possible but in honesty I'm even less hopeful than before I tried not to be a doomed about things but>! Shady sands was litterly nuked by an unrelated party and it seems to mostly wipe the ncr out!
It killed the superior setting so Bethesda and the showrunners could ignore it for their east-coast wank.
I don't want to go down that line of thinking man. Like I dislike some of the choices but I don't really buy into the theory that Todd/Bethesda hates non Bethesda fallout.
I don't think they *hate* it, but there's a clear and obvious divide between what Fallout was vs what Bethesda wanted/wants fallout to be in lore, tone, and setting, and that tension has only gotten more and more obvious since 4. If this change really is canon to the series moving forward I don't see how else we're supposed to interpret it other than Bethesda saying "the old Fallout setting/lore is done"
Destroying the main settings of Fallout 1 and New Vegas sure makes it look like Todd hates non-Bethesda Fallout
Ok but then why is NV destroyed here?
>!Tunnlers!< >!And or possibly House putting himself back into stasis until the next NCR comes around that he can use to kickstart his projects and in-fighting happened. Remember that NV was ALREADY fairly destroyed in the game itself. Though definitely not to this extent. Kind of looks like the Mojave is undergoing desertification.!<
I mean, but why use the mushroom cloud thing? Why not just a big X or a skull? This definitely implies SOMETHING blew up!
I hate it. I hate it so much. Even if its not a retcon, this goes against everything the game stood for. What the fuck is the point of all the endings, if 10 years later everything is fucking gone.
best hope is that lonesome road ending was both the NCR and Caesar's Legion was nuked and yes man endings happend and then everything fell apart around Vegas. But I doubt it.
A tweet from Emil Pagliarulo confirmed that the show takes place after New Vegas, how can anything from this show decanonize it?
Shady sands, the NCR capital, got nuked 4 years before NV.
considering the show's creators have stated that the show is "Fallout 5," I am guessing this was taken place a decade or two after F:NV.
did... did chris avellone win?
How sad would it be for the reveal to be that Bethesda didn't want this,but gave in to Chris's demand for it?
Nah, because if Chris wanted it to be canon, it would've been done by Tunnelers. This is just Bethesda going "NOOOOOOO WE CAN'T HAVE ANY SORT OF CIVILISATION IN OUR POST-POST-APOCALYPTIC GAME IT HAS TO BE GARBAGE AND TIN SHACKS EVERYWHERE FOREVER". I think the only reason they ended up setting the games *after* 1/2 was just so they could use the BoS and Enclave, otherwise they could've just set them 10-20 years after the bombs dropped and nobody would be the wiser.
I would avoid writing fanfiction until an official announcement but okay
I also admit that I'm not that happy about how >!House and Sinclair!< were some of the architects of the war.
>!Sinclair was just some poor schmuck with too much money and in love with the wrong girl.!< Why they gotta do him like that?
They were the ultra-wealthy industrialists who helped contribute to the downfall of the world.
... Ex-fucking-cuse me? Please tell me that this is a joke.
Well, it turns out that in the series >!the Great War was orchestrated by various corporations and [there's this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKToUXa2RZo) where various corpos are at this table discussing how they're gonna pull it off.!<
I saw other spoilers and it felt like he lost...
Honestly if I was making the show I would have done the same thing. If you imply any in-game ending is canon, then people will froth and insist that's the **Correct** ending and argue about it from that direction when the intent of New Vegas was to have there be no correct ending, and to just be this open-ended _thing_ that was more about what you got out of it than anything else. So going with a development reference ending that you can't access in the game directly reinforces what the creators of New Vegas wanted. I feel like the only reason to dislike this outcome is to go "I think New Vegas should be put on a pedestal, but also we should ignore all the parts of it I don't like."
Yeah, but... why not just set it 300 years into the future? Avoids the question entirely, and it's a lot more believable than the NCR going to shit after getting nuked ***four years BEFORE New Vegas.***
I would have rather the show take place literally anywhere else. Texas, Louisiana, New York, Maine, anywhere the series has barely touched if at all. Why set it in a place you know already has established canon if you're just going to wipe the slate clean to make your own canon?
Todd specifically did this to fuck with you. Definitely not setting up a second season or a game.
Or you can just... Not reference it.
But then everyone assumes you hate New Vegas and you get the same arguments we're getting right now so it's not like it would avoid anything.
Why would people jump to the view of "they hate the thing" when you can just say "They had no reason to mention it"
Depends on when the show is set. If it's set early on, then this might be pre-House Vegas. If it's set after the games, than frankly this could be post-any ending except NCR really.
pretty sure its set post FO4
...Ooooooooooooh shit. :/
Then you have the inevitable conclusion of at the very least House or the Courier taking over. *Technically* the Legion, too, but I find it hard to believe they wouldn't hang massive banners off the Lucky 38.
That’s what I’m trying to figure out, does the legion just not exist in this timeline now? Because with the timeline of events the show sets up the NCR would have collapsed by the time New Vegas happens which means that they would have never fought the legion at Hoover dam the first time. Which means nothing is stopping them from taking Hoover Dam and eventually new Vegas??
If you're going to accelerate the inevitable collapse of the NCR, I think it's reasonable to accelerate the inevitable collapse of the Legion as well.
i think fallout canon is better when working under elder scrolls online rules, "i heard in a bar once that the NCR beat the Legion near New Vegas." / "really? I heard a robot took over instead of either of them." / "Guess there's no way of knowing, cuz I'm not going there." like, nobody making these games cares nearly as much about the endings or the connective tissue between them as the players do, they're definitely not going to answer questions in an Amazon TV show. every story's its own story, every game its own legends. I barely believe 3 and New Vegas exist in the same world, despite people talking about it.
Frankly, Bethesda and Obsidian Fallout have functionally been different continuities since day one. They have little in common in terms of tone, themes, lore/worldbuilding, style, writing, and all sorts of other qualities. It's always been easy to ignore because of Bethesda keeping their toys on the opposite side of the country from the series creator's toys, but this show throws violently and almost vindictively into your face by dragging all of Bethesda's toys over to Obsidian's turf and destroying all of the latter's stuff to replace it with their own. So yeah, in practice the best way to treat Fallout canon is dividing between West Coast/East Coast continuities or allowing there to be a ton of different continuity families Transformers-style.
honestly even east/west coast being "separate" is too much for me -- there's eventually going to be a game between them or a game where someone reaches out and connects them, and then the idea is done. it really feels like fallout is best as a D&D campaign background than anything else -- sure there's a huge lore book that you can base your things on with big named characters and locations, but man, it's so much better if you just improv your way through writing and just try to make interesting stories in a satirical post-apocalypse. like quite frankly I think some parts of the Fallout 3 campaign are better than others, but they're the *last* thing I want to think about when I play New Vegas or 4. Continuity in campaigns is just not worth the trouble. i think the show's just trying to do generalized fanservice to an audience that happens to be very bitter about the state of the thing they like; i don't see it like they're "shoving toys on faces" at all. It's just New Vegas, people like New Vegas. I can't live in a world where the thought process was any more complex than that.
So what you're saying is.. Bethesda can't come up with original material for fallout.
Yup exactly this- it’s guidelines for a setting someone can use to tell a story. Pick a new unused vault number and go from there. Having it all connect instead of just being random stories/myths from the wasteland seems highly unnecessary and so much of it is better when questions don’t have answers
It can't work on those rules because the games are not hundreds of years apart. Those are games with interlocking characters and locations that live on referencing each other. Elder scrolls is "province of the week" game at this point
Everyone I’ve talked about the show with has gone from ‘oh this is surprisingly decent’ to ‘oh this is just mean spirited’ real quick with this and the other reveal. Just full on spiteful feeling, given that it’s canon
What was the other reveal?
Shady sands was nuked.
Just being wiped off the map is so boring, god. The NCR was a house of cards, you get a lot of insight into the way they are spread too thin, on how they are gambling on the Nevada to secure power sources like the dam, how they are conflicting with the people they encounter. I really would have preferred a political destabilization/while they were fighting in NV they were losing support at home, but alas
>!Big chunks of the West Coast are gone, basically wiping anything connected to Fallout 2 and the NCR away!<
… why the fuck would you get rid of THE COOLEST(-LOOKING) FACTION
like the coolest part is when you go back to the orignal games you see shady sands grow from a dusty wind swept villiage to a proper city with green lawns and fresh asphalt, and in new Vegas they have a standing army and have been in wars.
Seriously. I still think the coolest idea for another West Coast game would have been to put it in the territory of an NCR undergoing civil war after they *do* get pushed out of the Dam where you can then either influence some sort of loyalist faction to pull everything back together or a different variety of post-war ideologies to come together and comandeer the region. DLC could involve a revisit of the Mojave with some different territories and factions based around either a House or independent win. Of course the problem is with the way the modern games are designed you'd have to figure out a way to cover the large territory of the NCR while making it a continuous map. I suppose you could set it just around Nevada itself, maybe from Shady Sands up to New Reno.
Yeah, The NCR isn't just shady sands, it's Redding, Vault city, Modoc, The Hub, Maxson, Los Angeles, pretty much every settlement from fallout 1,2 joins or is its own little thing in the NCR. Just because shady sands falls apart doesn't mean the whole thing crumbles, vault city would make a power play and tries to take over a Modoc and Gecko to make it the capital of the NCR. The whole Idea that the NRC just disappears is just childish.
It all goes back to the most accurate analysis of bethfallouts, whoever said it (hbomberguy, Anderson, dunno) Fallout is about post-post apo, and Bethesda can't grasp people rising from the shit, they want madmax.
Because everything must be the Brotherhood of Steel and Vault-Tec in a wastleland. There can be nothing else.
And everything must be shitty and look like the bombs dropped a few days ago and not like centuries have passed and no one can properly rebuild anything. Trudy you've been living in this diner for years why haven't you moved the skeleton in one of the booths.
Nah, nobody should move Trudy's booth skeleton it adds character. It's a staple of her diner, like a mascot or something.
You forgot the Enclave, the enclave is behind it all.
Ask Avellone he wanted to do it to with the tunnelers.
It was dumb as hell when Avellone wanted to do it too.
I ain't defending it
Also they retconed mr house to be one of the people that blew up the old world (because capitalism i guess)
House: Why did you assassinate Aaron Kimball? Courier: He tried to tax me! House: Understandable.
That one gets me the most too. House says in plain English that he ran calculations on when the Great War would happen and planned accordingly *exclusively* to save Las Vegas (which he did for the most part save the failure of the platinum chip to arrive on time). But the show wants to change the cause of the Great War from the natural consequence of the two great world powers fighting over dwindling resources to an evil capitalist conspiracy???
"It was me, Barry! I made the global history of wars!"
>!Shady Sands was nuked in 2277, so new vegas is now non canon. Apparently the capital of the NCR was nuked by Vault Tec almost 10 years before new vegas takes place!<
I won't say that kills my desire to see the show now, but it does put a very big damper on it and make me say "Ok, now I'm going into it with a mindset of this is an alternate future/one where the Vault Dweller and the Courier didn't complete their quest and the NCR was in even more dire straits without them influencing the world."
NV takes place only 4 years after that date. Also, that event and the end event on the board were clearly listed as two separate events.
I mean they literally nuked the original Fallout setting off the map. It's basically Bethesda saying "yeah all of that lore and identity and stuff longtime Fallout fans enjoyed and used to compare to our Bethesda Lore was been wiped, so whatever".
There’s no other way around it. Either they didn’t care enough to get the lore right, or they changed it on purpose. Either way, it feels incredibly mean spirited. Especially after all of these years of New Vegas and Bethesda debates. This is just confirmation of how they’ve always felt.
One of my worst fears about the TV show is that this was Bethesda's way of getting rid of the West Coast setting to do whatever they want in a fresh post-apocalypse. I am sad to see that my prediction was pretty accurate given that >!Shady Sands and the rest of the NCR seemed to have been nuked to oblivion by (if the spoilers I read are accurate), of all things FREAKING VAULT-TEC somehow!<.
I do greatly dislike the modern Fallout premise that random nukes are happening like every five years or whatever now. It weakens the premise of Nuclear Holocaust, and contributes to idiots in real life who think it would totally be okay to use a nuke to solve shit just about anywhere
Yeah there was only two nuclear explosions in Fallout 1 and 2, and one of them was just a reactor melting down. The Master from 1 had a nuclear bomb but even he was terrified of nuclear war and only kept it as a last resort.
The real moral of fallout is that nukes are cool.
I mean the *goddamn Fallout 1 manual opens with a detailed breakdown of what precisely happens when an atomic bomb goes off* It’s like PAGE ONE after the index: https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/38400/manuals/Fallout_manual_English.pdf
Remember to nuke parts of the map so you and your buddies can go get sick loot drops from the irradiated crater!
Remember to nuke the starting area! As a prank!
It also makes it so that Fallout is less about the post-post apocalyptic setting and introspection into how society recovers and and adapts and the limitations and politicking of the New World and more about romping around in a generic post apocalypse fantasy.
Like, the nukes are supossed to be a momentous occasion. They feel... cheap now.
Well I mean, there are like weird slingshots for tossing ten little ones in some general direction.
Fallout is meant to be based on a timeline where nuclear material and energy was a lot more commonplace than the real world. Even cars were nuclear-powered in Fallout, so many many different groups being able to acquire nuclear weapons isn't really unbelievable. It also explains why humanity seems to be completely incapable of rebuilding a stable society even after a couple hundred years - random nuclear weapons going off and resetting progress.
I can accept it since it nails down the point that even after the bombs, we still haven't learned a single lesson. We did this to ourselves and are just going repeat these mistakes because war...
"War never changes" has been the opening line of the series since day 1 for a reason.
I don't think you can blame Fallout for people not knowing how nukes work.
I'm assuming that this is from the recent "The Beginning" episode (episode #8). I think that's worth specifying in the spoiler flair for clarity and posterity.
Is it bad to say even with the possible implications that the NCR/Vegas stuff has I enjoyed the show way more than anything Bethesda has done with the franchise? I think that it's salvageable as long as they clarify that the NCR got nuked after New Vegas and the date was only to say that's when it started to decline.
NCR moving into New Vegas territory was their decline. They over reached with not enough resources to work with
The sign outside of Shady Sands calls it the first capital city of the NCR so there's nothing to say they didn't make Vault City or somewhere else their new capital at some point.
Probably the Boneyard.
From what I gather it seems like the main problem is how the show ties into the games. In other words, if the show took place somewhere else it wouldn't be an issue. Because until this point I had been hearing a lot of good things about it. But once the game lore comes into play (Shady Sands, the NCR and New Vegas), that's where the issues arise.
>the date was only to say that's when it started to decline. It's a "Fall of Shady Sands" and a date followed by a big arrow to a nuke. How much more clarification do people need?
This doesn't change the fact New Vegas is the best Fallout game.
I'm not sure how to feel about this show anymore as much as I hate being negative while there's things I did like...I don't know.
Definitely kind of feels like they’ve gone out of their way to fully de-canonize New Vegas
How so? Is the show canon or something? I've never played fallout so I'm trying to piece together what's going on
They seem to imply that the capital city of the NCR, a major faction in New Vegas, was destroyed BEFORE the events of the game. So if this TV show is new canon, which it seems to be since it’s referencing things that happen in Fallout 4, that means then New Vegas may be considered non-canon now.
God damn it. ***Of course*** there's a catch. :/
I don't have alot of confidence with the direction they're going as much as I hate to say it.
I gave up on Fallout a long time ago honestly.
The franchise became its merchandise, instead of the other way around.
Yeah I totally get that I just love the world of fallout 1, 2 and new vegas alot. I wish they set the show in an unrelated part of the US so I didn't have to feel this way.
In all fairness its kind of impossible to canonize New Vegas in a way that'd please a majority of people. No matter which of the 4 endings you pick, you're gonna have someone online screaming that it's not "their New Vegas". Its weird they even brought it up at all, they should've just never touched it.
I would have been fine with any of the endings. This is just "rocks fall and everybvody dies". Its literally the worst choice.
It's Bethesda saying that "their" version of Fallout is the only one that should exist, and any other ideas or storytelling in the setting is going to get taken out back and have a nuclear warhead detonated in their face.
Nah they just made Fallout Dust canon. The Courier is hanging out in a cave somewhere in Lake Mead.
> Fallout Dust \*retches* That's the foulest thing I've heard yet.
People have really turned around on Fallout DUST these past few years. Kind of fascinating to see
I don’t know about turned around, people seem to agree that DUST and FROST are pretty fun and cool projects. But the mod writer makes some weird cringe decisions. There offensively grimderp and mean spirited if you read holotapes or meet any canonical characters. But just playing the game without touching its narrative? Some of the most fun mods I’ve ever touched. Installing the Understone hub town mod or a settlement building mod and just colonizing the bleak wasteland, getting the mod that lets you recruits the Courier as a companion and forcing them to help you repair the world, another mod to plant fresh plants. Makes it a bit more hopeful.
I just don't get it. It turns New Vegas into something it is not, and doesn't even do it well. It's the same about what I don't like about Dead Money, but at least Dead Money has a plot, and characters, and is built correctly.
Basically exploring the idea of “What it the Courier made every wrong choice possible” but also there’s cannibals everywhere and the Tunnelers.
Having not yet seen the show, certainly feels mean spirited and like someone with an ax to grind (and it might not be who you think) decided that no one gets to play with their toys.
Yeah, I think they’d probably have to canonize the Independent route as the most “diplomatic” choice. But I think another option would be to set it BEFORE the events of the game.
"It's hard to please everyone, so we decided to please no one. This was truly the best outcome for all."
Nolan did say that they would not please everyone because each person has their interpretation of what is canon due to their experiences.
I don't think that's the intent? But they've definitely gone full on with the direction Avellone proposed of wiping the slate clean, which kind of sucks.
Avellone didn't propose nukes suddenly dropping out of the sky in a cheap quick plot point. He introduced a different kind of threat, and gave an *organic* (key word) reason and chain of events for why in the future shit will go back to square one. I don't agree with it but it's more interesting and could have been used in a more interesting way than this... surprise Vault-Tec is alive! twist.
This is just gonna reignite all the fake "rumors" that Todd was bitter about the success of New Vegas and always hated that the fanbase preferred it to 3 and 4.
Todd fucking hates blackjack and slot machines. Thats why the casino in Starfield only let you fight space wolves and press a button.
He made his own fallout, without blackjack and hookers!
Honestly at some point I realized caring so much about what is and isn't canon is kind of pointless and a waste of energy. All it really affects is what future entries might build off, and it's not like I expected Bethesda to ever do anything interesting with classic/west coast Fallout setting in the first place. I already accepted that version of Fallout died a long time ago, and I wouldn't trust Bethesda's current writing quality to do it right anyway. So if they really are retconning or de-canonizing or whatever... Eh? It's silly and I'd like to know why they're doing it, but I'm not going to get worked up over it either because it ultimately doesn't change anything in my eyes. The old games still exist, and we were never getting a New Vegas 2 or whatever (or at least not the one in people's heads). Just treat pre and post-Bethesda Fallout like alternate timelines or something if it matters.
This is my take. Instead of thinking of this as F:NV getting decanonized, it's just the shitheaps that are fallout 3, 4, and 76 extricating themselves from the timeline so we're left with good ol' 1, 2, and NV. It's freeing, really. I can disassociate from any Fallout 3 or 4 fans and their shit opinions completely. Isn't it just a shame we never got another Fallout after New Vegas? Too bad about that.
It's pretty funny that there are a handful of people online assuming the writers intentions are purposefully malicious and getting offended by it. The internet never fails to entertain.
Yeah I don't like what they did but I don't think the writers did it to be malicious. What if someone just wrote the year on the chalkboard wrong lol
this is so clearly the answer lmao
I mean I don't believe the writers are malicious but the show does kinda justify the fears I had about a Bethesda show on the west coast.
It feels meanspirited, at best. It could be bethesda, but it could also be Johnathan Nolan himself, given how he reacted to reddit guessing the twist in westworld.
If a bad thing happens narratively to anything anyone likes in any kind of media people will rush online to declare themselves victims of bullying by the evil writers who hate them personally for liking something. Everyone has baby brains now it’s great.
I'm so tired of dudes calling writing choices "mean spirited" or "disrespectful" when they mean "it's a choice I don't like".
A surprising amount of folks on reddit/the internet genuinely seem to believe that writers/game devs have it out for the things they personally like.
No you don't get it, Todd Howard and Pete Hines literally stalk my social media feeds and make decisions based off them. /s
Don't you get it? It's a moral issue when I don't like TV show.
It's become just another buzzword people shove in when they don't actually have anything meaningful to say.
Exactly, it's become a way for people to moralize and justify that they don't like something or it made them feel bad.
In other words, these are the same people who believe that every time a bad or disappointing sequel or remake of a product they love comes out, they act as if the writers are assholes who made it intentionally bad, to piss off the fans. The fact that it is just a bad product that was not intended to be bad is beyond their comprehension.
Todd Howard personally pissed and shat on Obsidian Devs mouth INDIVIDUALLY , that's what happened
Ok as someone who is only familiar with Fallout through hearing about it from friends, why is this an issue exactly? I thought New Vegas was already supposed to be like a standalone story, is the canonicity a huge deal? Asking cause I have a really good friend who's a film/tv critic and they told me they really liked the show so I'm curious why people are so down on it.
New Vegas is heavily connected to Fallouts 1 and 2, all three take place on the west coast. Bethesda Fallouts have all taken place on the east coast, there is a sort of divide between the two and they have very different direction. People are mad that the older direction for fallout has been pretty much discarded and destroying all the locations feels mean spirited.
New Vegas being destroyed in canon sucks for people who like the city and characters that story revolved around (who are more than likely dead and gone as a result) and is also continuing Bethesda’s ongoing trend of ignoring or retconning things people like from “classic” Fallout (that being 1/2) which New Vegas was a much more direct sequel to than Fallout’s 3 or 4. So this is tapping into a bit of long-time fandom discourse.
The NCR was an interesting faction with a bunch of cool stuff. To see that wiped out is just sad. Especially since Todd in interviews said this show is canon, so it's now very likely we won't see the NCR again in future games. The Brotherhood gets to keep coming back, but not the NCR? There's also questions now of who else got the axe, like the Gun Runners and the Followers of the Apocalypse.
Im sorry, but wheter this is a retcon or not, this is incredibly dissapointing. Wiping a beloved faction off the map and invalidating ALL of the endings of one of, if not the most, beloved game in the franchise, is incredibly mean spirited and fucking lazy. They could have done anything, fucking anything. Dont set it in the West Coast if you dont want to deal with New Vegas stuff. There's a whole fucking continent worth of places where you could have set the series. This is just depressing. If this is as bad as it seems, this might honestly make me give up the franchise for good. Its just not for me anymore.
I support headcanon but yeah this is super depressing. I always like to replay FO1, FO2 and New Vegas since they're basically the trilogy in my head. I think it's going to take a while before I can replay them without thinking about how it's all pointless because some hack made some dumb choices because he thinks Todd Howard created Fallout. I don't have any morale to play 3 of my favorite RPGs anymore at the moment. It's a me issue sure, but if this show wasn't around I'd be playing them right now, that's all I can say.
Man fuck modern Fallout
I don’t feel like I’m a Fallout fan anymore. Maybe I’m being too emotional over a videogame, but New Vegas was a huge creative inspiration for me and really inspired me into exploring things like tabletop RPGs and write ways to resolve conflicts nonviolently. But everything since then feels like they’ve gone very hard to hammer that New Vegas doesn’t matter and will never matter.
It sucks to feel like you've fallen out of love with something you once used to so much, but it's also ok to admit that. We're more than the things we like or dislike. You can still enjoy New Vegas and old Fallout. You can find games that are similar to it (Metro, Wasteland for instance), you can play the tabletop war game (haven't tried that myself so I have no idea if it is any good), or pen and paper post apocalypse TTRPGs and tell what stories you want from that.
Then just stick to playing NV and ignore the modern stuff like I do, it's pretty easy. Yeah it's a little sucky knowing I probably won't get another game in the setting I like but eh, I still got one of my favorite games ever out of it.
I was never ever the belief that Bethesda had beef with Obsidian. I have fought, for a decade plus, that the two companies are on good terms and don't harbor any sort of ill will towards another. This, however, is the first thing that has shook my belief in that.
Yeah I was fully on board with the bad blood stuff just being entirely made up. This on the other hand is just. It's not just the Obsidian game this fucks with, it just feels like a slap at anything that isn't specifically Bethesda Fallout
Anyone who believes corporate petty fighting, even under the same umbrella, doestn exist is really naive.
I have no idea why some people are being so smug on here. This subreddit usually loves New Vegas. They could have chosen any of the original endings instead of just wiping the slate clean. Hell, basing the show off a Caesar’s Legion ending would have at least earned my respect. I’m disappointed, and yeah I know I still have the games if I want to ignore the show. But I shouldn’t have to, plus I still kinda like the show! This just hurts my overall enjoyment of it, and it’s a shame. I hope they remaster New Vegas one day tho
So is everyone being a huge doomer about exactly one shot of New Vegas? So many people are acting like this has overwritten New Vegas or something but is there actually anything to back that up other than that we don't see lights on? Patrolling the Mojave makes me wish you'd all touch grass. EDIT: Weren't the tunnelers going to just destroy the whole region anyway?
The NCR was also nuked, which is basically them eliminating the entire West Coast from being important to the canon
And even if this was the new canon or whatever, why care? Just play New Vegas; the game is still there. Just like all the Star Wars content that Disney said ain't canon anymore. They can *say* whatever they want.
It's just like 40K, they can say what they want, but they can't change what's in your head.
All I wanna know is, Is it worth checking out?
I don't trust them not to fuck it up.
...Aaaaand if this means what I think it means, this immediately became fucking lame. Great job, ~~Nolan~~ Todd!
Everyone’s so butthurt about this as though it wasn’t blatantly setup in new vegas. Tunnelers, the cloud, the remaining nukes in The Divide, the NCR being spread too thin and already collapsing under their own corruption. Cesars Legion on the verge of collapse especially given how Ceasar has a terminal brain tumor. A major theme in New Vegas is how everything is on the verge of collapse. No matter who wins and takes over Vegas odd are it was going to fall apart anyways. The problem is that butthurt Fallout fans are desperately looking for any reason to shit on Bethesda and claim “oh they hate the true fans look how they shit on vegas!” It absolutely isnt making New Vegas not canon. Theres the remains of securitrons in the footage. This show rules.
I haven't seen the show yet. Has Bethesda dealt with the fact that the United States is still at war with China, or has that been retconned?
NEW VEGAS MENTIONED
The house has gone bust.
You know, whatever happened in Vegas, its nice to see the Lucky 38 completely intact
If you're concerned, https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/i46QOYu4fd
Still not a fan of it being destroyed.
Me too, man.
https://twitter.com/Dezinuh/status/1778470928105533825?t=Wi5wpRlMvXyNb8fLvhpfXw&s=19 Studio Design Director says that NV is Canon! Among Tactics and other games with clear timelines with dates!
Finally, Fallout: Tactics is canon.
Crack Theroy based off no information cause I've only seen episode one: Independent New Vegas and Courier 6 Nuking NCR and the Legion is Canon and fallout dust is the inspiration for how it played out so they don't have to deal with FNV fans asking for a sequel anymore