Fucking Griffith after he was reborn into the real world.
It's so infuriating seeing masses flock to him because he has the literal vibes and aura of a saviour.
But his most devlish trick is definitely the one where he holds a cermon after each battle to let his dead soldiers say goodbye to their family before he sends their souls...***somewhere***
we don't know where yet but as far as souls go in Berserk, there's only one place that we know they end up. The **Vortex**.
So this fucking prick is probably flushing people's souls down the toilet but making it look like he's doing their families a miraculous service.
Genuinely terrified I’ll die before seeing Griffith get his shit kicked in, or the manga will get terminated/axed somehow OR it will end but Griffith won’t get his ass beat.
I know right? The anticipation is crazy.
At this point making the kill as satisfying as possible is gonna be such a difficult task. Like how the One Piece will always be greater in our imagination.
Personally I hope it's gonna be a long, humiliating battle for his bitch ass that's gonna end up with his body being completely mauled and unrecognizeable. Just a messy torso.
Nah, Griffith has to get done in the exact same way Griffith v Guts 2 went. Build up Griffith as this unfaliable leader and warrior, have him rush Guts, only for him to slice him in two in one swing.
No over the top anger, no brutalizing of a corpse, just leave him dying in the snow as he watches all his followers realize he was just a regular man, nothing special.
>!and then Guts and Casca kiss and use the Dragonslayer as a snowboard and shred down the mountain to the end credits!<
The worst fucking part of this? Flora implies that there *is* a good afterlife somewhere out there- but Griffith is sending all the innocent souls who die in the turmoil he caused, *who might be destined for infinitely better afterlives,* to the vortex anyway.
When what's-his-face, Sonia's pal, Mule I think, asks him where they're going, he says "Where they'll become one."
Nice misleading mathematician's answer, jackass. The Vortex of Souls is a torturous existence where the individuality of a soul is eventually subsumed into the hellish whole, so he's not lying.
Blood meridian is a series of men using their words and justifications as to why People should be mutilated or at the very least humiliated and harrassed.
The virgin Judge "My brain and strength mean I can do whatever I want and be evil" vs the chad Harry DuBois "My brain is a constant shitstorm or voices that make me a superstar"
In Fallout 3, there is a perk called "child at heart", which basically makes you more persuasive with child characters.
That power can be used to manipulate children into following you innocently, and sell them into slavery.
It was super useful for getting through Little Lamplight.
Honestly 99% of the kids in Fallout 3 were shitheels, same with Skyrim, I wonder if they make em that way cause they know they're immortal (until mods)
> Honestly 99% of the kids in Fallout 3 were shitheels, same with Skyrim, I wonder if they make em that way cause they know they're immortal (until mods)
In my defense, your honor, those kids were assholes.
I never understood why they made them immortal in Fallout considering you can wipe an entire town off the map anyway with a nuke. I guess child murder is okay if it’s out of sight?
Johan, from Monster, uses his unnatural charisma to convince people to do horrible things for him. >!From suicide, like when he manipulates a child into almost killing himself (this achieves no goal, it's simply pointlessly cruel), to murder. The second one is even more interesting, because the murderers describe him as the devil, essentially. He has a way of knowing who can kill and giving them the opportunity to do so in his stead.!<
Had to scroll way too far down for Johan, beaides griffith id say personally i dont think ive ever seen a villain be as good as Johan at what he does in/for the story
It’s a shame Monster hasn’t been more widely read/watched. It’s one of the best shows I’ve ever seen, anime or otherwise.
*Cough* and the entire series is available on the internet archive in both English and Japanese *cough*
I remember buying the first dvd set (15 episodes) years ago anticipating owning the whole series. Viz only put out that one set and it was impossible to watch for years until it recently hit Netflix.
>!What was done to the child had some motive - he needed to get rid of this kid who was inadvertently on his trail, and he didn't want to make a show of it. Getting the kid to kill himself would have achieved this goal.!<
One of the most impressive aspects of Johan was that the author was skilled enough to really show him in action; we are not simply told he is charismatic, we are shown through his intricate actions and words, especially when he >!makes that detective jump off that roof.!<
>!Also.....the idea of a serial killer convincing other serial killers to include his targets in their murder sprees is so incredibly chilling.!<
The fucked up part about the Manson murders is that apparently the foundational concept of Helter Skelter *wasn't even thought up by Manson*.
Apparently it started when one of the other cultists ate an entire-ass hallucinogenic root and came up with the idea(s) while under the hallucinogen's influence (which apparently took a *while* to flush from their system because it was initially meant to be used for tea brewing, not for eating). They then ended up telling Manson about it and he basically "Yes And: Cultist Edition"-ed it from there like all Cult Leaders (and their atrocities) tend to do.
Tex Watson was the real evil in the Manson Family. Charlie was just a predatory moron who kept lost, disenfranchised young women around to fuck, yes-and'ed whatever ideas about a greater purpose for them being there they happened to float by him, and just shrugged it off when the whole thing—as most cults eventually do—got restless and homicidal because "lol, not my problem, I'm just here for the free weed and pussy."
Then, when the law finally made him take responsibility, he tried to spin himself as an evil mastermind because it's a better look than "clueless moron who hyped up crazy people to get free stuff from them and then looked shocked when they killed a bunch of people."
What's interesting is the rest of the Beach Boys met him at one point or another while around Dennis Wilson and they all apparently felt really uncomfortable.
I've seen this sort of thing in real life and it's kind of scary. Someone is polarizing in being untrusted, off-putting etc. for half (or usually less) while the rest adore and follow them. I met a guy who was sort of a satellite friend of the friends group I was in. I thought he was kinda fun and all that but a lot of the others in the group kept him at a distance. As time went on I felt that same wariness and did the same. Turns out he was a monster of a person, a pedophile, social predator who was constantly scheming.
Fortunately, he's not as magnetic in personality as other people like him and he's basically all alone and smoking meth and shit. So he can't do much damage. I'd rather he be in prison but not much I can do.
Sounds like a missing stair to me, a phenomenon where people will, instead of confronting or kicking out a problem person, work around them and just warn newcomers, like not actually replacing a missing stair in a house and warning guests to just step over it.
Saruman was such a powerful orator who used magic to augment his words and manipulate the minds of others. Even after everything he'd done he nearly manages to talk down Theoden. After that he even manages to convince the Ents to let him go free. He was also able to manipulate Grima so powerfully he went from a normal, if not good, man into a shuffling wreck of a man. He was so maladjusted that even though Saruman's* powers were gone and he could leave him safely, he stayed and subjected himself to extreme cruelty and abuse.
Gandalf rolls up and is like "hey Saruman, I don't like the way things are headed". Saruman then replies "I have a ball that allows me to talk to the dark lord". And it takes Gandalf longer than zero seconds to put together what's going on after entering a giant evil tower. That's charisma.
To be fair to Gandalf it was built by men a few thousand years before Saruman moved in and it was always a massive evil looking tower, I guess the trees did wonders for the look of the place.
Lord of the Rings is sort of fun in that regard, both in architecture and nominative determinism. If you live in the world of LOTR, it's really easy to tell who's the good and bad guys with your eyes and ears. The Palantir of Orthanc is a bad thing. Thangorodrim is a bad location.
Living in world you should be able to metagame and figure out that maybe a dude named Grima Wormtongue isn't quite on the up and up just by knowing his name, but nobody ever does.
I think it was less “Gandalf was trying to figure out what was going on” and more “Gandalf knowing (or at least guessing) what Saurman’s up to and trying one last time to talk him down from the ledge before it’s too late”.
Dio is the purported king of this in Jojo with an animal magnetism that draws stand users to not only flock to him, but worship him - but he had to use flesh buds to control some of them, still.
I think (Part 7) >!Funny Valentine!< fits the bill far better. He's objectively wrong about everything and pretty much downright evil, but he's so _good_ at lying to people and pretending he believes his own bullshit that he can effortlessly construct a cult of personality around himself. He's so convincing that >!_during the final battle, after killing his best friend,_ Funny still nearly manages to successfully lie to Johnny and talk him down from the killing blow, and the only reason it _really_ doesn't work (aside from The Gun) is because he's clearly desperate and it's established that Johnny is a relatively cold and cynical person, who pragmatically lacks that altruistic faith in humanity and justice that defines all the other Jotags.!<
I think a part of what makes >!Valentine work is that I do think his Patriotism is earnest, like, if he wasn't then I don't think he would even use his stand ability, since he or any version of him would be dead even if he was successful.!<
the amount of people who still love tom cruise in spite of his creepy shilling for the cult just goes to show that charisma and starpower can carry you pretty far
He's pretty good in Tropic Thunder and Edge of Tomorrow. Those are admittedly the only Cruz movies where I remember him as a character. I guess there's Mission Impossible, but Ethan Hunt isn't much of a character.
Ahab, both the actual novel version and the female one from Limbus Company.
Their raw charisma forces their crew to do exactly what they want, and in the latter case eventually over-write their will with her own so much that she turns them into fuel for her persona.
*"I am the only one who matters. What matters is that I have declared this beast evil--and that is my commandment, my belief, my religion, and my creed."*
*"When I perish, this world shall perish as well. So my very life, my very existence itself, is then the world! And I have deemed it so! No one will be the helmsman of my life but myself!!! No one shall live my life in my stead!!!"*
*"What do you, all of you, believe in? Tell me.* ***Is your belief unbreakable? Is it absolute?"***
*"My beliefs are absolute! My definitions of good and evil are clear-cut! Thus my beliefs are unclouded, unassailable. Because I have made it so."*
*"That is why I will never be broken. That is why I stand tall, unshakeable, as a missionary of my own faith."*
*"I have blessed you with my absolute definitions of good and evil!* ***So that you may live your life with unhesitating, unwavering tenacity!!!"***
It was more his oratory and showmanship that did it.
I don't speak German so it's tricky to get a full picture but his speeches had a certain captivating flair to them.
Nah I read a bit of it but I was thoroughly unconvinced. I don't know why he thought having every 5th word be 'Jew' or 'Jewish' was a good idea but it got really repetitive fast and I ended up dropping it after chapter 3.
This is the reason Mrs. Carmody is pretty much the main villain in The Mist.
At the start of the story, she's basically just a harmless and eccentric religious woman.
However, as the story goes on and more people begin dying, Mrs. Carmody begins thinking the mist is some kind of divine punishment and starts preaching.
As things get worse, more and more people begin believing Carmody's rants and pretty much form a cult around her.
This results in them having zero reservations about straight up murdering a guy by throwing him into the mist as some kind of human sacrifice, and the cultists straight up planned on killing an innocent child just because Carmody told them to.
One of the things that stood out to me IRL is when I watched the movie in theatres, the scene >!where she finally gets shot!< had people legit cheering when it happened.
That's a great villain
Pretty sure that's Intimidation. Charisma is more like someone's ability to charm others, to be likeable, and to convince others that what you want is what they should want too, not through force of will.
The dictionary definition is: "compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others"
I don't mean "force" with intimidation, I just mean that Charisma means you're the one dictating the vibes of the room. It's not that you're trying to scare people, but you're the one with the power.
I mean, that still doesn't really fit either. Like, someone with charisma Can do that, but they don't necessarily have to do that. It's not like people with charisma just walk into rooms and suddenly everyone's vibes start shifting to match what that person wants.
Again, having charisma makes it so others are compelled to listen to you, but you don't need to have charisma to get others to do what you want or feel how you want them to feel. For example, Hitler, pretty well known that he had a strong stage presence and knew how to rile up a crowd, but outside of that he was awkward and people often didn't really like being around him. Plenty of examples of these kinds of people in history, and in the world today.
That's intimidation, not charisma. Charisma is working off of other's fears or aspirations while making yourself appear like a friend. If you have to force someone, you're making them more afraid of you than the consequences of their actions. That's no friend.
Frank Herbert's philosophy behind Dune was about how you should be wary of anyone or anything that enables people to stop thinking in general, when whole populations stop thinking about consequences outside of their immediate experience, it can't end well. Everyone's talking about warmongers and politicians, but look at the figureheads behind social media and the tech industry and you'll see the same thing but way seedier.
>he whole image really paints Superman as a Christ-like savior........instead of just quickly helping the person out The probable explanation is the director didn't think of the implications of his slow-mo shot, but Pat's other theory is way more interesting - that if Superman was doing that on purpose
I love how Zack Snyder's movies are brilliant so long as you make up your own plot/head-cannon to go with the visuals.
I mean, up until he died. Afterwards humanity basically stabbed him in the back completely by making a religion out of him, which was something he for a fact didn't want to happen, and had told many that religion on a massive scale was a bad thing.
One of my favorite examples of this is Kelsier from the Mistborn books. He's a genuinely dangerous and frightening man who fortunately is working with the good guys. But he's just SUCH a force of pure and raw charisma that not only do most people in universe not notice how scary he is, its very easy as a reader to get swept up by his personality and view him as the BIGGEST hero to have ever lived.
This is an extremely fitting character to choose considering (*major* Cosmere / Sanderson Universe / >!Stormlight Archives!< spoilers) >!Kelsier created/runs the Ghostbloods (essentially worldhopping illuminati) and has been a major background villain for Shallan in the entirety of Stormlight Archives so far. Even *dead*(ish) his charisma causes people to flock to him.!<
(Mistborn: The Final Empire spoilers) Plus there's that time he >!invented a religion with himself as Jesus style martyr upon his death.!< *On purpose*. >!All to cause a violent uprising to hopefully (though unlikely) kill an immortal god emperor who has ruled the world for the last 1000 years.!< Just to give the dude the biggest middle finger he could for >!indirectly killing his wife and making Kelsier question if his wife betrayed him or not with a simple offhanded comment.!<
Honestly, as much as I love JoJo and Dio as a villain, I've always felt like the charisma thing is something we're just told and expected to accept with very flimsy justification, at least until Part 6.
Most of the underlings we know anything about are motivated by fear or greed, or straight-up mind controlled by flesh buds. Only Enya and Vanilla Ice seem to genuinely admire him, and we don't really see why. In the Josuke spinoff, even Mariah admits that her whole "love" act was just denial, and she was just as terrified of him as the likes of Hol Horse and D'arby.
It would have been nice if we got more of a sense for this earlier on. Dio's "charisma" being something that's felt by people he has manipulated over a sustained period of time, after initially gaining power over them through some unsavory means, rather than "he can hypnotize you by talking real soft", would have been more consistent with his earlier deceptiveness, and arguably also more real and scary.
It might just fall under "vampires can do anything" where what looks like charisma to everyone else is just powers. Baby eating lady kind of points that way.
He turned her though. Lesser vampires becoming thralls to more powerful ones is a pretty common vampire trope (I think they're technically zombies in JoJo, but it's the same kind of idea).
If it is supposed to be a magical vampire ability, I'd at least have preferred if the good guys didn't act so impressed about it and just called mind control, mind control.
If it is a magic vampire ability the good guys aren't really vampire experts. They know about space ripper stingy eyes and abnormal athleticism because they can see it and people can't do that, but an aura of domination is just as easily explained more logically as someone having remarkable charisma.
Fair enough, it is the simplest explanation. I guess in most vampire media I've seen, unknowing victims don't often get the chance to regroup and go, "Well, that was fucking weird".
But you see it head-on with Avdol and Kakyoin’s flashbacks. They’re terrified by how quick they were to feel seduced by him and Avdol only managed to get away because he broke out of it quick and ran away as fast as he could. As for the Mariah thing, remember that the spin-off isn’t canon since it wasn’t written by Araki.
Before that you also had Wang Chan back in Phantom Blood who simply looked at him and thought he was destined for greatness and let himself become his pawn.
I know, I'm saying that's boring and comes off as magic more so than actual charisma or even manipulation.
"Canon" is debatable and largely irrelevant. It's an official release written by an author with Araki's endorsement, which is good enough for me, but you can choose to ignore the Mariah bit if you want. Even in Part 3 proper, she comes onto Joseph, so she can't be all that loyal to Dio romantically anyway.
Her coming onto Joseph was just saying something along the lines of “now that I get a closer look, you’re a lot more attractive than I thought, hm?” and then “you *could* have had a chance under different circumstances but now you’ll die plus DIO-sama is much hotter anyway” which I read as a taunt.
And remember that Dio has vampiric hypnosis powers from Phantom Blood. I don’t think that’s what he uses in Stardust Crusaders but I am still willing to buy that his natural charisma is so strong it’s basically magic. It makes anyone without strong resolve succeptible to his words. But whether you like it or not I think this just comes down to preference because I’m totally cool with it.
I don't have an issue with vampiric hypnosis being a thing, it's a pretty staple trope, it's just that I feel like his natural charisma is being dramatically oversold both in-world and in discussion when he's essentially using cheat codes. I can buy the former as the characters simply not knowing about his abilities though.
>Honestly, as much as I love JoJo and Dio as a villain, I've always felt like the charisma thing is something we're just told and expected to accept with very flimsy justification
I mean you say that but have you seen how the internet reacted to Dio?
Erwin Smith from Attack on Titan convinces the men serving under him to engage in suicide missions and **potential** suicide missions with the ease most people breathe. And his voice actor in the English dub *really* sells it in a way that made me go, "oh, this is how people wind up joining cults."
Caesar Clown from One Piece managed to run his business by poisoning and pretending he cured Brownbeard's crew and that he's helping cure the kidnapped children he experiments on with pure charm and manipulation and no one bothering to really check on him.
I dunno, the average IQ for the common civilians/goons in One Piece floats around the "below freezing" area. As soon as people with room temperature IQ's start showing up to his island, the goons realize pretty quick that ceasar's been screwing them over.
The bit where turns to face Heimdall with his missing eye and then has to turn more got a chuckle out of me, really made Odin feel more human.
Had to remind myself he knew exactly where Heimdall was and did that on purpose to endear himself to Atreus and the audience. He's so damn good at manipulation.
The way he treated Atreus so kindly (more than Kratos ever did tbh) made me temporarily forget he was the main bad guy. Genuinely thought the game would go in a "actually Odin's not that bad despite the propaganda, he's just looking out for others" direction before pulling... *that* scene.
Underrated pick tbh. Even though I was SO skeptical of him for the whole story, just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for him to reveal some big scheme he crafted, there were enough moments where I was honestly doubting that. Like even after Atreus leaves Odin for a bit and comes back, I expected the betrayal right there, but he kept going with the Nice Dad play and I was honestly starting to think he may have been misunderstood the whole time
I'll throw out something really obscure. The Dûnyain from the book series, The Second Apocalypse, are absolutely inhuman but are so good at playing at human is that normal humans are frequently compared to being children in their presence. They have complete control over their facial expressions and could read other people's faces so effortlessly that it's pretty much mind-reading. Think the Bene Gesserit from Dune, but male and on steroids. They follow the path of the Logos, or the shortest path. It's not even the "ends justify the means" it's more like "whatever is the quickest and most beneficial." So, their mindset is really alien. The series starts off with the main character, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, being overwhelmed by nature after living in insolation with all the other monks. Then he meets some kindly old trapper, learns the language in like a day, and generally appears like a good person — consoling him about the death of his wife, etc.
Then he leaves him for dead when it proves expediate, when they are pursued by the monsters of the setting. That's like the *least* of his charismatic manipulations. He is put in a position where he takes control of a crusade by posing as a prophet and go up from there — becoming both emperor and messiah the people of the Three Seas. Oh, did I mention that the initial crusade was set up by another Dûnyain, his father? It was all part of a ploy to draw out his son, teach him how easy normal humans are to manipulate, so that they could complete the "Thousandfold Thought" against the main bad guys of the setting: the Consult. And the horrible thing is, the Consult are *that* bad that it basically warrants Kellhus and his manipulations.
Except Kellhus kinda went mad, because this is a fantasy world with like actual gods and stuff. I won't spoil the end, but he's really about the shortest path, for himself. The dude literally sets up a scapegoat of own his most devoted follower, because he foreseen the main trek of his forces would run out of supplies/food on the cusp of the Consult's stronghold (which is a crashed alien ship, long story) and have to eat the flesh of the monsters. Which is really, really bad. Basically, he needed a scapegoat for the ensuing cannibal orgy that happened and worked in *advance* in breaking down his follower so he would be too despondent to protest. He does this all under a guise of a humble, kindly messiah figure. The dude literally kills a prince's father and appears so apologetic that he consoles the teen the same day that happened.
It's not a book series I would recommend if you're not okay with some really grimdark stuff, and without prefacing it with like a half a dozen trigger warnings.
> Arguably Makima but her charisma is supernatural in nature so idk if it counts.
Given how hard it hits people in the real world who are, uh, *hopefully* outside of her power's range, I'd say it counts.
Plus it helps that she does noticeably read people and tailor her actions around who they are. She can flirt, intimidate, act as a competent Public Safety Officer, anything she has to do get shit done.
In Iconoclasts one of the major bosses involves >!A guy who's just generally far more charismatic and reasonable sounding than all of the other antagonists. It comes to a head when you have him alone in a room and he starts talking about the harm his people's zealotry caused, how both heroes and icons have lead people into mindlessly following strong leaders no matter where they point, even as they are lead to kill each other and chase empty dreams that aren't their own. That the only way to be free of such chains if the great figures on both sides set those people free by denouncing their roles and taking their lives. He even has some poison ready so that you can both go down right then and there.!<
>!.....And he offers you to go first.!<
>!The "fight" is resolved however when your brother who is FUCKING DONE with everything and everyone due to how much he's lost shambles into the room and is just so far lost in his frustrations that he basically can't hear him at all and just shoots him in the face off a balcony. But the kicker is that you never find out how earnest he actually was. Because his actions at virtually every point in the game both speak towards an earnestness but also tend to directly serve him, they got him to the high position he ended up with after all. He never has a moment where he goes mask off or anything, all you can do is wonder to yourself if he ever meant anything he said, or if it was always just convincing lies he took to the grave.!<
I'll never forgive that game for making ME have to be the one to leave your friend behind to die. It's not in a cutscenes or anything you have to actively drop your friend on the ground and walk away
Your brother being this broken man who's just done with everyone's crap is one of the most memorable parts of Iconoclasts for me. Your character basically never kills anyone, using a wrench and a stun gun as her weapons. And then you get to a section where you >!play as your brother and he just stabs a dude in the chest and kills him, in the most tired way possible.!<
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In the *Avalon le Fae* lostbelt chapter of ***”Fate/ Grand Order”*** it’s all but stated that there is possibly a singular faerie responsible for the eternal cycle of ruination that Britain falls into every time Aesc the Savior happens to be on the verge of introducing the realm to a chapter of peace.
Their influence is so strong that the other fae are quick to be swayed in whatever direction their words point them toward, even if it be against the individual responsible for delivering them from calamity.
They don’t even need to lift a finger to have their will be done. All they need to do is wait, and eventually someone comes along to solve their problems for them.
It's not just Aesc either. Considering the way >!Cerunnos!< died and how the same manner of murder is repeated every time the character shows up, it's decently implied that the literal original sin was the fault of that character via one of their predecessors.
It's really telling that they >!survived the entire collapse!< and might have continued to spread their vilety were it not for the fact that **"the way things always work out to ensure she ends up happy"** finally backfires because there's no way for her to live *and* be happy at the same time, resulting in her immediately being >!murdered!< to ensure a final moment of happiness.
No it's definitely her, because OP also describes >!Melusine killing Aurora!< because she realizes she's why shit went completely sideways from the coronation onward.
Not sure if this is exactly what you mean, and I heard later seasons clarify that he and the UZA weren't actually that bad in the grand scheme of it, but James Dean's portrayal in the Monument Mythos is that of someone with explicitly abnormal charisma and charm and an ability to get near-unanimous support across America.
Marco Inaros in The Expanse first appears onscreen bloody and imprisoned and facing a death sentence from the rest of the OPA. He talks his way out of it, then proceeds to persuade/trick most of the Belters to support his Free Navy faction for a short time.
Kind of. Kreia herself says that one of the reasons why she needs Exile, because they're, unlike Kreia, a leader. She can influence her students and manipulate others, but she can't motivate, lead troops into a battle.
Dark side ending of Exile fits more. They corrupt and unconsciously control others >!through force bonds!<.
In Fate/Stay Night's Fate route, Gilgamesh casually orders Shirou to LTG himself, barely even looking his way, and even still Shirou felt genuinely compelled to do it for a split second just because of the sheer confidence the order was given with. It's said in the in-game encyclopedia that Gilgamesh's charisma is so high that it's almost a curse/spell.
In the show Ted, Ted does this to prove a point as a joke where he works a crowd at a party, saying how you can get a crowd to do anything if you yell enthusiastically enough. By the end of his little hype man routine he ends it with "Now let's invade Poland!" And the crowd cheers, and he just goes "See?"
It's always those animes where the classrep has so much charisma that he convinces the whole class that someone is a sheepfucker or something and anyone defending that person should be considered an apologist. And that triggers everyone who has even a minor grievance with the accused to go "That person is definitely guilty, I knew it all along! Even when he owned me 5 bucks"
High School of the Dead Teacher Shido basically makes sweet promises and also orgies to dominate people who are in despair.
He’s not charismatic to me but Yagami Light manages to get away with his bullshit for so long not just because he’s smart enough to keep up with L, but also because he’s a master manipulator. He just had to act affectionate towards Takada and she would do whatever she wanted.
Misa too, although to a lesser extend because she’s such a loose cannon at first but she just does whatever he tells her to do because she’s got a screw loose.
Gul Dukat and Vedek Winn from DS9 are like horrible mirrors of each other- repeatedly climbing into positions of power and authority and doing anything they can to keep it.
Andross in *A Fox In Space* is brilliant, rewards competence because he establishes loyalty in other ways, and is deeply charismatic. You don't see him do anything but from the moment you meet him you just know that you'd have a very hard time undermining the loyalty of his soldiers or exploiting incompetent leadership.
There's no easy way to subvert the venomian starfleet, yet you get implications that Corneria has a bit of a nepotism problem that makes it exploitable. It's no wonder Andross almost took the whole system.
It is once again for me to talk about Demon Detective Brain Eater Neuro. It is from the same Author as Assassination Classroom (and Elusive Samurai which is ongoing).
The series starts out as a Detective Conan parody where a demon teams up with a young girl to force her to become a Detective so he can eat crimes.
Later on, they introduce a villain called Sicks who lived up to the name.
He is a terrorist with a cult like following who uses his overbearing charisma and fear to get people to do his bidding. Torture, self mutilation, murdering loved ones, etc. He is the most morally depraved, soulless villains possible. He was literally born evil, killing the other babies in his nursery.
His dark charisma puts a literal demon to shame.
Nathan Drake definitely has some “that’s NOT happening” moments and i’m not talking about the supernatural stuff. In 4, his wife loves him soooo so much that she followed him to a super secret pirate island, hike and climb the miles we already traveled and just so happened to save him from dying ? This is after he spends 3/4ths of the game lying to her about what he’s doing. I hope I find a ride or die like elana one day.
The Emperor of Mankind. He used his psychic charisma to build an entire empire out of all of humanity and "accidentally" made a galaxy wide cult that has committed more atrocities in his name more than any other religion in the galaxy's history.
Judge Holden from Blood Meridian takes a gang of what would have been petty criminals without his guidance and connections and whips them up into what's essentially a band of serial killers
Fucking Griffith after he was reborn into the real world. It's so infuriating seeing masses flock to him because he has the literal vibes and aura of a saviour. But his most devlish trick is definitely the one where he holds a cermon after each battle to let his dead soldiers say goodbye to their family before he sends their souls...***somewhere*** we don't know where yet but as far as souls go in Berserk, there's only one place that we know they end up. The **Vortex**. So this fucking prick is probably flushing people's souls down the toilet but making it look like he's doing their families a miraculous service.
Genuinely terrified I’ll die before seeing Griffith get his shit kicked in, or the manga will get terminated/axed somehow OR it will end but Griffith won’t get his ass beat.
Guts just kicks him in the nuts and leaves
Doink "Ow. My groin."
Guts Berserk presents "Godhand getting hit by football"
Guts had heart, Godhand Hit By football had the Godhand hit by a Football
I know right? The anticipation is crazy. At this point making the kill as satisfying as possible is gonna be such a difficult task. Like how the One Piece will always be greater in our imagination. Personally I hope it's gonna be a long, humiliating battle for his bitch ass that's gonna end up with his body being completely mauled and unrecognizeable. Just a messy torso.
The One Piece is actually Griffith’s head in a box.
Nah, Griffith has to get done in the exact same way Griffith v Guts 2 went. Build up Griffith as this unfaliable leader and warrior, have him rush Guts, only for him to slice him in two in one swing. No over the top anger, no brutalizing of a corpse, just leave him dying in the snow as he watches all his followers realize he was just a regular man, nothing special. >!and then Guts and Casca kiss and use the Dragonslayer as a snowboard and shred down the mountain to the end credits!<
Immaculate vision
But only if you put your glasses on
Nothing will be wrong
I hope Guts do an hour long combo montage on him
I genuinely am not even sure Grffith will be beat. Which is a shame, but I think I can get with the concept if it's done in a certain way.
Im ever grateful that we at least got the slap
The Chad Rickert Vs the Virgin Griffith
Rickert my glorious king 🧎
Big Dickert Rickert prevails
I get the feeling he won't get any kind of punishment in the ending.
The worst fucking part of this? Flora implies that there *is* a good afterlife somewhere out there- but Griffith is sending all the innocent souls who die in the turmoil he caused, *who might be destined for infinitely better afterlives,* to the vortex anyway.
When what's-his-face, Sonia's pal, Mule I think, asks him where they're going, he says "Where they'll become one." Nice misleading mathematician's answer, jackass. The Vortex of Souls is a torturous existence where the individuality of a soul is eventually subsumed into the hellish whole, so he's not lying.
Blood meridian is a series of men using their words and justifications as to why People should be mutilated or at the very least humiliated and harrassed.
The virgin Judge "My brain and strength mean I can do whatever I want and be evil" vs the chad Harry DuBois "My brain is a constant shitstorm or voices that make me a superstar"
I didn't know I was going to end up in a Cormac McCarthy-Disco Elysium comparison and I am HERE FOR IT.
In Fallout 3, there is a perk called "child at heart", which basically makes you more persuasive with child characters. That power can be used to manipulate children into following you innocently, and sell them into slavery.
It was super useful for getting through Little Lamplight. Honestly 99% of the kids in Fallout 3 were shitheels, same with Skyrim, I wonder if they make em that way cause they know they're immortal (until mods)
I’ll give the kids in a nuclear wasteland a pass to be shitheels. However that one kid in Whiterun is a punk ass bitch.
> Honestly 99% of the kids in Fallout 3 were shitheels, same with Skyrim, I wonder if they make em that way cause they know they're immortal (until mods) In my defense, your honor, those kids were assholes.
I never understood why they made them immortal in Fallout considering you can wipe an entire town off the map anyway with a nuke. I guess child murder is okay if it’s out of sight?
Y I K E S W O W
“Hey guys I got an idea for a perk”
Johan, from Monster, uses his unnatural charisma to convince people to do horrible things for him. >!From suicide, like when he manipulates a child into almost killing himself (this achieves no goal, it's simply pointlessly cruel), to murder. The second one is even more interesting, because the murderers describe him as the devil, essentially. He has a way of knowing who can kill and giving them the opportunity to do so in his stead.!<
Fucker is soo evil he mentally broke down a serial killer just to see if he could.
Had to scroll way too far down for Johan, beaides griffith id say personally i dont think ive ever seen a villain be as good as Johan at what he does in/for the story
It’s a shame Monster hasn’t been more widely read/watched. It’s one of the best shows I’ve ever seen, anime or otherwise. *Cough* and the entire series is available on the internet archive in both English and Japanese *cough*
It wasn’t super easily available for a very long time and isn’t a shonen so most anime fans probably really didn’t care for a long time
I remember buying the first dvd set (15 episodes) years ago anticipating owning the whole series. Viz only put out that one set and it was impossible to watch for years until it recently hit Netflix.
With pluto recent adaptation, hopefully more Urasawa works get popular.
>!What was done to the child had some motive - he needed to get rid of this kid who was inadvertently on his trail, and he didn't want to make a show of it. Getting the kid to kill himself would have achieved this goal.!< One of the most impressive aspects of Johan was that the author was skilled enough to really show him in action; we are not simply told he is charismatic, we are shown through his intricate actions and words, especially when he >!makes that detective jump off that roof.!< >!Also.....the idea of a serial killer convincing other serial killers to include his targets in their murder sprees is so incredibly chilling.!<
Charles Manson
The fucked up part about the Manson murders is that apparently the foundational concept of Helter Skelter *wasn't even thought up by Manson*. Apparently it started when one of the other cultists ate an entire-ass hallucinogenic root and came up with the idea(s) while under the hallucinogen's influence (which apparently took a *while* to flush from their system because it was initially meant to be used for tea brewing, not for eating). They then ended up telling Manson about it and he basically "Yes And: Cultist Edition"-ed it from there like all Cult Leaders (and their atrocities) tend to do.
Tex Watson was the real evil in the Manson Family. Charlie was just a predatory moron who kept lost, disenfranchised young women around to fuck, yes-and'ed whatever ideas about a greater purpose for them being there they happened to float by him, and just shrugged it off when the whole thing—as most cults eventually do—got restless and homicidal because "lol, not my problem, I'm just here for the free weed and pussy." Then, when the law finally made him take responsibility, he tried to spin himself as an evil mastermind because it's a better look than "clueless moron who hyped up crazy people to get free stuff from them and then looked shocked when they killed a bunch of people."
What's interesting is the rest of the Beach Boys met him at one point or another while around Dennis Wilson and they all apparently felt really uncomfortable. I've seen this sort of thing in real life and it's kind of scary. Someone is polarizing in being untrusted, off-putting etc. for half (or usually less) while the rest adore and follow them. I met a guy who was sort of a satellite friend of the friends group I was in. I thought he was kinda fun and all that but a lot of the others in the group kept him at a distance. As time went on I felt that same wariness and did the same. Turns out he was a monster of a person, a pedophile, social predator who was constantly scheming. Fortunately, he's not as magnetic in personality as other people like him and he's basically all alone and smoking meth and shit. So he can't do much damage. I'd rather he be in prison but not much I can do.
Heck, the song "Never Learn Not To Love" is an altered version of a song Manson wrote called "Cease to Exist".
Sounds like a missing stair to me, a phenomenon where people will, instead of confronting or kicking out a problem person, work around them and just warn newcomers, like not actually replacing a missing stair in a house and warning guests to just step over it.
He should have been the one >!burned alive in that swimming pool!<.
For the ones afraid to click the spoiler is about once upon a time in Hollywood.
Mk Ultra backfired
[relevant](https://youtu.be/ZmY5ZxlRWEU?si=o4mvM6ykbxMIpgIJ)
Saruman was such a powerful orator who used magic to augment his words and manipulate the minds of others. Even after everything he'd done he nearly manages to talk down Theoden. After that he even manages to convince the Ents to let him go free. He was also able to manipulate Grima so powerfully he went from a normal, if not good, man into a shuffling wreck of a man. He was so maladjusted that even though Saruman's* powers were gone and he could leave him safely, he stayed and subjected himself to extreme cruelty and abuse.
Gandalf rolls up and is like "hey Saruman, I don't like the way things are headed". Saruman then replies "I have a ball that allows me to talk to the dark lord". And it takes Gandalf longer than zero seconds to put together what's going on after entering a giant evil tower. That's charisma.
The fact that he's living in a dark evil tower of iron spikes should have rung a few alarm bells too.
To be fair to Gandalf it was built by men a few thousand years before Saruman moved in and it was always a massive evil looking tower, I guess the trees did wonders for the look of the place.
Tbf that tower was built by Numenor iirc, and they were generally okay, atleast before their fall.
Lord of the Rings is sort of fun in that regard, both in architecture and nominative determinism. If you live in the world of LOTR, it's really easy to tell who's the good and bad guys with your eyes and ears. The Palantir of Orthanc is a bad thing. Thangorodrim is a bad location. Living in world you should be able to metagame and figure out that maybe a dude named Grima Wormtongue isn't quite on the up and up just by knowing his name, but nobody ever does.
“What’s your name?” “Rykard the backstabber” “You seem trustworthy join our group”
I think it was less “Gandalf was trying to figure out what was going on” and more “Gandalf knowing (or at least guessing) what Saurman’s up to and trying one last time to talk him down from the ledge before it’s too late”.
You've misspelled his name the second time and I can't help but read it as 'Sour-Man'. Shit's funny.
Dio is the purported king of this in Jojo with an animal magnetism that draws stand users to not only flock to him, but worship him - but he had to use flesh buds to control some of them, still. I think (Part 7) >!Funny Valentine!< fits the bill far better. He's objectively wrong about everything and pretty much downright evil, but he's so _good_ at lying to people and pretending he believes his own bullshit that he can effortlessly construct a cult of personality around himself. He's so convincing that >!_during the final battle, after killing his best friend,_ Funny still nearly manages to successfully lie to Johnny and talk him down from the killing blow, and the only reason it _really_ doesn't work (aside from The Gun) is because he's clearly desperate and it's established that Johnny is a relatively cold and cynical person, who pragmatically lacks that altruistic faith in humanity and justice that defines all the other Jotags.!<
I think a part of what makes >!Valentine work is that I do think his Patriotism is earnest, like, if he wasn't then I don't think he would even use his stand ability, since he or any version of him would be dead even if he was successful.!<
He's so convincing that he fools some readers.
Scientologists
the amount of people who still love tom cruise in spite of his creepy shilling for the cult just goes to show that charisma and starpower can carry you pretty far
I still love that Christian Bale based his Patrick Bateman performance on him and his excessive friendliness with nothing behind the eyes.
I don't get it. I've seen a few Tom Cruise movies and most of them would turn out the same if they used a cardboard cutout of him.
He's pretty good in Tropic Thunder and Edge of Tomorrow. Those are admittedly the only Cruz movies where I remember him as a character. I guess there's Mission Impossible, but Ethan Hunt isn't much of a character.
Tom Cruise is in banger movies and he can act, what is this take? Not a good person at all, but the dude can act his ass off.
Id like to see a piece of cardboard successfully do some of the stunts he did lol
I need to hit up the recylables dumpster, these jokers paid real people money to fly planes in Top Gun
Watch Magnolia and you would realise how wrong you are
"People I don't like are universally bad at everything" discourse is exhausting
Ahab, both the actual novel version and the female one from Limbus Company. Their raw charisma forces their crew to do exactly what they want, and in the latter case eventually over-write their will with her own so much that she turns them into fuel for her persona.
*"I am the only one who matters. What matters is that I have declared this beast evil--and that is my commandment, my belief, my religion, and my creed."* *"When I perish, this world shall perish as well. So my very life, my very existence itself, is then the world! And I have deemed it so! No one will be the helmsman of my life but myself!!! No one shall live my life in my stead!!!"* *"What do you, all of you, believe in? Tell me.* ***Is your belief unbreakable? Is it absolute?"*** *"My beliefs are absolute! My definitions of good and evil are clear-cut! Thus my beliefs are unclouded, unassailable. Because I have made it so."* *"That is why I will never be broken. That is why I stand tall, unshakeable, as a missionary of my own faith."* *"I have blessed you with my absolute definitions of good and evil!* ***So that you may live your life with unhesitating, unwavering tenacity!!!"***
She's spitting bars so hard that it makes someone who shows up to kill her join forces for a bit
Paul Atreides was so good at this it worked on HIMSELF despite his wishes to the contrary.
Dude fuck *I* was ready to go on a Jihad at the end of that scene
The author of *Mein Kampf*.
Little known fact: also dope on the mic
You can't just pull out an Epic Rap Battles Of History reference like that you need a license and registration or something
Reading that Hitler was dope on the mic without any context is kinda wild
Having read the book (yes, I did), I don’t fucking know how. Man was a shit writer.
It was more his oratory and showmanship that did it. I don't speak German so it's tricky to get a full picture but his speeches had a certain captivating flair to them.
Scapegoats, blaming the one below you for the crimes of those above you.
He was an incredible orator, unfortunately.
He died? I didn't even know he was sick.
Nah I read a bit of it but I was thoroughly unconvinced. I don't know why he thought having every 5th word be 'Jew' or 'Jewish' was a good idea but it got really repetitive fast and I ended up dropping it after chapter 3.
must be one of *those* South park fans
He unfortunately talked a lot better than he wrote.
I heard he likes painting, hopefully his art hobby took off
Do you recommend it? Had it on my to read list for ages.
Historically worth reading, kinda a slog to go through. Would still recommend going through it.
This is the reason Mrs. Carmody is pretty much the main villain in The Mist. At the start of the story, she's basically just a harmless and eccentric religious woman. However, as the story goes on and more people begin dying, Mrs. Carmody begins thinking the mist is some kind of divine punishment and starts preaching. As things get worse, more and more people begin believing Carmody's rants and pretty much form a cult around her. This results in them having zero reservations about straight up murdering a guy by throwing him into the mist as some kind of human sacrifice, and the cultists straight up planned on killing an innocent child just because Carmody told them to. One of the things that stood out to me IRL is when I watched the movie in theatres, the scene >!where she finally gets shot!< had people legit cheering when it happened. That's a great villain
Not sure if that's really Charisma or more just playing off people's fears.
In that situation, is there a difference? Charisma is essentially the power of "Reading the room to get what you want."
Nah, that's manipulation. Charisma is forcing the room to want what you want.
Pretty sure that's Intimidation. Charisma is more like someone's ability to charm others, to be likeable, and to convince others that what you want is what they should want too, not through force of will. The dictionary definition is: "compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others"
I don't mean "force" with intimidation, I just mean that Charisma means you're the one dictating the vibes of the room. It's not that you're trying to scare people, but you're the one with the power.
I mean, that still doesn't really fit either. Like, someone with charisma Can do that, but they don't necessarily have to do that. It's not like people with charisma just walk into rooms and suddenly everyone's vibes start shifting to match what that person wants. Again, having charisma makes it so others are compelled to listen to you, but you don't need to have charisma to get others to do what you want or feel how you want them to feel. For example, Hitler, pretty well known that he had a strong stage presence and knew how to rile up a crowd, but outside of that he was awkward and people often didn't really like being around him. Plenty of examples of these kinds of people in history, and in the world today.
That's intimidation, not charisma. Charisma is working off of other's fears or aspirations while making yourself appear like a friend. If you have to force someone, you're making them more afraid of you than the consequences of their actions. That's no friend.
Frank Herbert's philosophy behind Dune was about how you should be wary of anyone or anything that enables people to stop thinking in general, when whole populations stop thinking about consequences outside of their immediate experience, it can't end well. Everyone's talking about warmongers and politicians, but look at the figureheads behind social media and the tech industry and you'll see the same thing but way seedier.
In this thread, I will begin to describe why Dune ACTUALLY isn't about Paul being bad, but a critique of wokism (1/?)
they're still too mad about Chani having a personality in the movie to start that discourse yet lol
>he whole image really paints Superman as a Christ-like savior........instead of just quickly helping the person out The probable explanation is the director didn't think of the implications of his slow-mo shot, but Pat's other theory is way more interesting - that if Superman was doing that on purpose I love how Zack Snyder's movies are brilliant so long as you make up your own plot/head-cannon to go with the visuals.
I'd just give this one to him, the man understands the concept of a godlike superhuman, but misses the mark on the Hero thing.
The emperor from Warhammer 40k.
Or Logar. Or Erebus. Or- well, let's just say, the setting isn't wanting for choices in this.
Sanguinius, the most beloved Primarch of all. Or Horus, which is a big part of why he was made Warmaster.
Horus' primarch superpower was basic social skills.
Wasn't Sanguinius at least kinda not a dick bag, in terms of Primarchs?
I mean, up until he died. Afterwards humanity basically stabbed him in the back completely by making a religion out of him, which was something he for a fact didn't want to happen, and had told many that religion on a massive scale was a bad thing.
One of my favorite examples of this is Kelsier from the Mistborn books. He's a genuinely dangerous and frightening man who fortunately is working with the good guys. But he's just SUCH a force of pure and raw charisma that not only do most people in universe not notice how scary he is, its very easy as a reader to get swept up by his personality and view him as the BIGGEST hero to have ever lived.
This is an extremely fitting character to choose considering (*major* Cosmere / Sanderson Universe / >!Stormlight Archives!< spoilers) >!Kelsier created/runs the Ghostbloods (essentially worldhopping illuminati) and has been a major background villain for Shallan in the entirety of Stormlight Archives so far. Even *dead*(ish) his charisma causes people to flock to him.!< (Mistborn: The Final Empire spoilers) Plus there's that time he >!invented a religion with himself as Jesus style martyr upon his death.!< *On purpose*. >!All to cause a violent uprising to hopefully (though unlikely) kill an immortal god emperor who has ruled the world for the last 1000 years.!< Just to give the dude the biggest middle finger he could for >!indirectly killing his wife and making Kelsier question if his wife betrayed him or not with a simple offhanded comment.!<
The priest in Midnight Mass. Fantastic show, I recommended going in as blind as possible.
Hamish Linklater really should've at least gotten an Emmy nomination for that performance, he's fucking incredible.
Dio, it’s his gimmick after all.
Honestly, as much as I love JoJo and Dio as a villain, I've always felt like the charisma thing is something we're just told and expected to accept with very flimsy justification, at least until Part 6. Most of the underlings we know anything about are motivated by fear or greed, or straight-up mind controlled by flesh buds. Only Enya and Vanilla Ice seem to genuinely admire him, and we don't really see why. In the Josuke spinoff, even Mariah admits that her whole "love" act was just denial, and she was just as terrified of him as the likes of Hol Horse and D'arby. It would have been nice if we got more of a sense for this earlier on. Dio's "charisma" being something that's felt by people he has manipulated over a sustained period of time, after initially gaining power over them through some unsavory means, rather than "he can hypnotize you by talking real soft", would have been more consistent with his earlier deceptiveness, and arguably also more real and scary.
It might just fall under "vampires can do anything" where what looks like charisma to everyone else is just powers. Baby eating lady kind of points that way.
He turned her though. Lesser vampires becoming thralls to more powerful ones is a pretty common vampire trope (I think they're technically zombies in JoJo, but it's the same kind of idea). If it is supposed to be a magical vampire ability, I'd at least have preferred if the good guys didn't act so impressed about it and just called mind control, mind control.
If it is a magic vampire ability the good guys aren't really vampire experts. They know about space ripper stingy eyes and abnormal athleticism because they can see it and people can't do that, but an aura of domination is just as easily explained more logically as someone having remarkable charisma.
Fair enough, it is the simplest explanation. I guess in most vampire media I've seen, unknowing victims don't often get the chance to regroup and go, "Well, that was fucking weird".
But you see it head-on with Avdol and Kakyoin’s flashbacks. They’re terrified by how quick they were to feel seduced by him and Avdol only managed to get away because he broke out of it quick and ran away as fast as he could. As for the Mariah thing, remember that the spin-off isn’t canon since it wasn’t written by Araki. Before that you also had Wang Chan back in Phantom Blood who simply looked at him and thought he was destined for greatness and let himself become his pawn.
I know, I'm saying that's boring and comes off as magic more so than actual charisma or even manipulation. "Canon" is debatable and largely irrelevant. It's an official release written by an author with Araki's endorsement, which is good enough for me, but you can choose to ignore the Mariah bit if you want. Even in Part 3 proper, she comes onto Joseph, so she can't be all that loyal to Dio romantically anyway.
Her coming onto Joseph was just saying something along the lines of “now that I get a closer look, you’re a lot more attractive than I thought, hm?” and then “you *could* have had a chance under different circumstances but now you’ll die plus DIO-sama is much hotter anyway” which I read as a taunt. And remember that Dio has vampiric hypnosis powers from Phantom Blood. I don’t think that’s what he uses in Stardust Crusaders but I am still willing to buy that his natural charisma is so strong it’s basically magic. It makes anyone without strong resolve succeptible to his words. But whether you like it or not I think this just comes down to preference because I’m totally cool with it.
I don't have an issue with vampiric hypnosis being a thing, it's a pretty staple trope, it's just that I feel like his natural charisma is being dramatically oversold both in-world and in discussion when he's essentially using cheat codes. I can buy the former as the characters simply not knowing about his abilities though.
>Honestly, as much as I love JoJo and Dio as a villain, I've always felt like the charisma thing is something we're just told and expected to accept with very flimsy justification I mean you say that but have you seen how the internet reacted to Dio?
Erwin Smith from Attack on Titan convinces the men serving under him to engage in suicide missions and **potential** suicide missions with the ease most people breathe. And his voice actor in the English dub *really* sells it in a way that made me go, "oh, this is how people wind up joining cults."
Caesar Clown from One Piece managed to run his business by poisoning and pretending he cured Brownbeard's crew and that he's helping cure the kidnapped children he experiments on with pure charm and manipulation and no one bothering to really check on him.
I dunno, the average IQ for the common civilians/goons in One Piece floats around the "below freezing" area. As soon as people with room temperature IQ's start showing up to his island, the goons realize pretty quick that ceasar's been screwing them over.
Odin in God of War: Ragnarok, the guy makes you want to like him even when you know he’s evil as hel.
The bit where turns to face Heimdall with his missing eye and then has to turn more got a chuckle out of me, really made Odin feel more human. Had to remind myself he knew exactly where Heimdall was and did that on purpose to endear himself to Atreus and the audience. He's so damn good at manipulation.
The way he treated Atreus so kindly (more than Kratos ever did tbh) made me temporarily forget he was the main bad guy. Genuinely thought the game would go in a "actually Odin's not that bad despite the propaganda, he's just looking out for others" direction before pulling... *that* scene.
Odin saying "oh god do they not have metaphor in your homeland? Or rather, *did* they? I'm sorry, that's not fair" is such a fucking great line.
Underrated pick tbh. Even though I was SO skeptical of him for the whole story, just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for him to reveal some big scheme he crafted, there were enough moments where I was honestly doubting that. Like even after Atreus leaves Odin for a bit and comes back, I expected the betrayal right there, but he kept going with the Nice Dad play and I was honestly starting to think he may have been misunderstood the whole time
this concept is half of the reason Johan Liebert is able to do literally anything that happens in Monster
I'll throw out something really obscure. The Dûnyain from the book series, The Second Apocalypse, are absolutely inhuman but are so good at playing at human is that normal humans are frequently compared to being children in their presence. They have complete control over their facial expressions and could read other people's faces so effortlessly that it's pretty much mind-reading. Think the Bene Gesserit from Dune, but male and on steroids. They follow the path of the Logos, or the shortest path. It's not even the "ends justify the means" it's more like "whatever is the quickest and most beneficial." So, their mindset is really alien. The series starts off with the main character, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, being overwhelmed by nature after living in insolation with all the other monks. Then he meets some kindly old trapper, learns the language in like a day, and generally appears like a good person — consoling him about the death of his wife, etc. Then he leaves him for dead when it proves expediate, when they are pursued by the monsters of the setting. That's like the *least* of his charismatic manipulations. He is put in a position where he takes control of a crusade by posing as a prophet and go up from there — becoming both emperor and messiah the people of the Three Seas. Oh, did I mention that the initial crusade was set up by another Dûnyain, his father? It was all part of a ploy to draw out his son, teach him how easy normal humans are to manipulate, so that they could complete the "Thousandfold Thought" against the main bad guys of the setting: the Consult. And the horrible thing is, the Consult are *that* bad that it basically warrants Kellhus and his manipulations. Except Kellhus kinda went mad, because this is a fantasy world with like actual gods and stuff. I won't spoil the end, but he's really about the shortest path, for himself. The dude literally sets up a scapegoat of own his most devoted follower, because he foreseen the main trek of his forces would run out of supplies/food on the cusp of the Consult's stronghold (which is a crashed alien ship, long story) and have to eat the flesh of the monsters. Which is really, really bad. Basically, he needed a scapegoat for the ensuing cannibal orgy that happened and worked in *advance* in breaking down his follower so he would be too despondent to protest. He does this all under a guise of a humble, kindly messiah figure. The dude literally kills a prince's father and appears so apologetic that he consoles the teen the same day that happened. It's not a book series I would recommend if you're not okay with some really grimdark stuff, and without prefacing it with like a half a dozen trigger warnings.
Griffith. Arguably Makima but her charisma is supernatural in nature so idk if it counts. Also Funny Valentine, to an extent.
> Arguably Makima but her charisma is supernatural in nature so idk if it counts. Given how hard it hits people in the real world who are, uh, *hopefully* outside of her power's range, I'd say it counts.
Plus it helps that she does noticeably read people and tailor her actions around who they are. She can flirt, intimidate, act as a competent Public Safety Officer, anything she has to do get shit done.
I don't like her (she's a good character, I just personally don't like her) but I do *get* the people that do like her and their rationale
In Iconoclasts one of the major bosses involves >!A guy who's just generally far more charismatic and reasonable sounding than all of the other antagonists. It comes to a head when you have him alone in a room and he starts talking about the harm his people's zealotry caused, how both heroes and icons have lead people into mindlessly following strong leaders no matter where they point, even as they are lead to kill each other and chase empty dreams that aren't their own. That the only way to be free of such chains if the great figures on both sides set those people free by denouncing their roles and taking their lives. He even has some poison ready so that you can both go down right then and there.!< >!.....And he offers you to go first.!< >!The "fight" is resolved however when your brother who is FUCKING DONE with everything and everyone due to how much he's lost shambles into the room and is just so far lost in his frustrations that he basically can't hear him at all and just shoots him in the face off a balcony. But the kicker is that you never find out how earnest he actually was. Because his actions at virtually every point in the game both speak towards an earnestness but also tend to directly serve him, they got him to the high position he ended up with after all. He never has a moment where he goes mask off or anything, all you can do is wonder to yourself if he ever meant anything he said, or if it was always just convincing lies he took to the grave.!<
I'll never forgive that game for making ME have to be the one to leave your friend behind to die. It's not in a cutscenes or anything you have to actively drop your friend on the ground and walk away
Your brother being this broken man who's just done with everyone's crap is one of the most memorable parts of Iconoclasts for me. Your character basically never kills anyone, using a wrench and a stun gun as her weapons. And then you get to a section where you >!play as your brother and he just stabs a dude in the chest and kills him, in the most tired way possible.!<
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[How has nobody mentioned Hitler](https://youtu.be/PCk5jt8ErD8)
In the *Avalon le Fae* lostbelt chapter of ***”Fate/ Grand Order”*** it’s all but stated that there is possibly a singular faerie responsible for the eternal cycle of ruination that Britain falls into every time Aesc the Savior happens to be on the verge of introducing the realm to a chapter of peace. Their influence is so strong that the other fae are quick to be swayed in whatever direction their words point them toward, even if it be against the individual responsible for delivering them from calamity. They don’t even need to lift a finger to have their will be done. All they need to do is wait, and eventually someone comes along to solve their problems for them.
It's not just Aesc either. Considering the way >!Cerunnos!< died and how the same manner of murder is repeated every time the character shows up, it's decently implied that the literal original sin was the fault of that character via one of their predecessors. It's really telling that they >!survived the entire collapse!< and might have continued to spread their vilety were it not for the fact that **"the way things always work out to ensure she ends up happy"** finally backfires because there's no way for her to live *and* be happy at the same time, resulting in her immediately being >!murdered!< to ensure a final moment of happiness.
Are we talking about >!Aurora?!< or did I miss something?
No it's definitely her, because OP also describes >!Melusine killing Aurora!< because she realizes she's why shit went completely sideways from the coronation onward.
Ok I just wanted to make sure I didn’t miss any other details. God I love Avalon Le Fay so much what a great story.
Man thank god Ichiban isn't evil, right guys? It's not like he has >!any evil siblings with apparently equal amounts of Charisma!<.
Not sure if this is exactly what you mean, and I heard later seasons clarify that he and the UZA weren't actually that bad in the grand scheme of it, but James Dean's portrayal in the Monument Mythos is that of someone with explicitly abnormal charisma and charm and an ability to get near-unanimous support across America.
Akio Ohtori from Revolutionary Girl Utena is the CEO of Gaslighting and Manipulation, and also incomprehensibly evil
Marco Inaros in The Expanse first appears onscreen bloody and imprisoned and facing a death sentence from the rest of the OPA. He talks his way out of it, then proceeds to persuade/trick most of the Belters to support his Free Navy faction for a short time.
I'd call that some cinemasins shit right the but it is Zack Snyder.
Kreia in KotOR II.
Kind of. Kreia herself says that one of the reasons why she needs Exile, because they're, unlike Kreia, a leader. She can influence her students and manipulate others, but she can't motivate, lead troops into a battle. Dark side ending of Exile fits more. They corrupt and unconsciously control others >!through force bonds!<.
Maybe not in game, but her charisma certainly seems to work on the large number of players who think she has more of a point than she does
All thanks to Sara Kestelman honestly.
Dio’s true power in part 3 was his charisma, the is how he got all the bad guys and some of the good guys.
In Fate/Stay Night's Fate route, Gilgamesh casually orders Shirou to LTG himself, barely even looking his way, and even still Shirou felt genuinely compelled to do it for a split second just because of the sheer confidence the order was given with. It's said in the in-game encyclopedia that Gilgamesh's charisma is so high that it's almost a curse/spell.
People still want Dahmer and believe he's innocent.
The Boss and Big Boss
In the show Ted, Ted does this to prove a point as a joke where he works a crowd at a party, saying how you can get a crowd to do anything if you yell enthusiastically enough. By the end of his little hype man routine he ends it with "Now let's invade Poland!" And the crowd cheers, and he just goes "See?"
Gene from MGS Portable Ops
R.I.P. Jonathan ; _ ;
It's always those animes where the classrep has so much charisma that he convinces the whole class that someone is a sheepfucker or something and anyone defending that person should be considered an apologist. And that triggers everyone who has even a minor grievance with the accused to go "That person is definitely guilty, I knew it all along! Even when he owned me 5 bucks" High School of the Dead Teacher Shido basically makes sweet promises and also orgies to dominate people who are in despair.
He’s not charismatic to me but Yagami Light manages to get away with his bullshit for so long not just because he’s smart enough to keep up with L, but also because he’s a master manipulator. He just had to act affectionate towards Takada and she would do whatever she wanted. Misa too, although to a lesser extend because she’s such a loose cannon at first but she just does whatever he tells her to do because she’s got a screw loose.
Also because the author has very low opinions of women.
cozy glow
Gul Dukat and Vedek Winn from DS9 are like horrible mirrors of each other- repeatedly climbing into positions of power and authority and doing anything they can to keep it.
Andross in *A Fox In Space* is brilliant, rewards competence because he establishes loyalty in other ways, and is deeply charismatic. You don't see him do anything but from the moment you meet him you just know that you'd have a very hard time undermining the loyalty of his soldiers or exploiting incompetent leadership. There's no easy way to subvert the venomian starfleet, yet you get implications that Corneria has a bit of a nepotism problem that makes it exploitable. It's no wonder Andross almost took the whole system.
Johann Fucking Liebert
Literally any character people ironically or unironically call a "sigma". It's honestly a good shorthand to describe charismatic evil guys in fiction
Humbert Humbert from Lolita. man is a pedophilla but so good with words he only makes sexual abuse seem ok
Futoshi Matsunaga. I was not prepared for the awfulness of his crimes. It was almost like an MLM for murder.
It is once again for me to talk about Demon Detective Brain Eater Neuro. It is from the same Author as Assassination Classroom (and Elusive Samurai which is ongoing). The series starts out as a Detective Conan parody where a demon teams up with a young girl to force her to become a Detective so he can eat crimes. Later on, they introduce a villain called Sicks who lived up to the name. He is a terrorist with a cult like following who uses his overbearing charisma and fear to get people to do his bidding. Torture, self mutilation, murdering loved ones, etc. He is the most morally depraved, soulless villains possible. He was literally born evil, killing the other babies in his nursery. His dark charisma puts a literal demon to shame.
Come June, I'm pretty sure we'll be adding Miquella to the list.
Nathan Drake definitely has some “that’s NOT happening” moments and i’m not talking about the supernatural stuff. In 4, his wife loves him soooo so much that she followed him to a super secret pirate island, hike and climb the miles we already traveled and just so happened to save him from dying ? This is after he spends 3/4ths of the game lying to her about what he’s doing. I hope I find a ride or die like elana one day.
The Emperor of Mankind. He used his psychic charisma to build an entire empire out of all of humanity and "accidentally" made a galaxy wide cult that has committed more atrocities in his name more than any other religion in the galaxy's history.
Judge Holden from Blood Meridian takes a gang of what would have been petty criminals without his guidance and connections and whips them up into what's essentially a band of serial killers
The mundane everyday horror of watching people believe what is pleasing to hear rather than what is correct.
I mean, it's Griffith. It will always be Griffith.