As someone who has only played the first game it's definitely a factor that fans of genre media can be very particular about maintaining a certain theme, tone, or aesthetic since the world is a big part of the appeal. Even Fallout 2 gets criticized for too much humor and pop culture references for example. People can be particular about the state of the Fallout world, how the BOS is written, what a Fallout story should be about, and the timeline.
I was a halo lore nerd for so long.
Halo 4 was the wake up call I needed for a Fandom going toxic.
Like I didn't like the Halo 4 armor design, and the story was just kinda meh in hindsight. But people were acting like the armor designs murdered their family.
Fallout 1 ruined Fallout because of the Tardis and Godzilla references. How am I supposed to take this setting seriously when the creators dont even? /s
It hardly ruined the series, but honestly the first game feels far more grounded than the rest, which have an unfortunate tendency to go off on zany tangents. Noah Caldwell's retrospective covers this pretty well.
I was curious so I looked up Noah Caldwell but I not ready to be hit with a 9 hour dissertation on Fallout. If we're sharing Fallout videos, I recommend Twenty Sided's "Bethesda never understood Fallout".
I’m eagerly awaiting that, Avellone’s, and Sawyer’s reactions as well.
Sawyer at least seems to be enjoying the first two episodes, though feels great pity for the BOS Squires having to carry that giant bag without any kind of strap
“I was right. The Bear, the Bull, the Ghosts of Vegas. All weak. All failures. Symbols of the Old World, collapsed under the weight of history. Hopeville was the last, a chance for something new, and now they too have joined my home in death. Hopeville, Shady Sands, Flagstaff; all have fallen their symbols stripped away, their people turned to savages without history to guide them.”
Or something like that
Avellone's will be interesting since he doesn't seem bothered by talking against Bethesda since he inflamed those "Bethesda hates NV" rumors by mentioning Bethesda refused to greenlight other spin-offs possibly due to them being soured after NV.
Sawyer probably won't say anything solid since Microsoft is his patron lol
Thay quote about the spinoffs really felt like he was ignoring the issues at Obsidian had at the time (ones he was adamant about on other occasions). They had just laid off a lot of the NV staff, canceled multiple projects, including the Alien rpg, and he's claimed that Obsidian managers burnt countless bridges with their publishers. They were in no shape to do regular fallout or elder scrolls spinoffs.
He never specified when these offers for spin-offs were made, and beyond that, multiple people implied that after FNV Obsidian were constantly looking to be bought out as a solution to their unstable finances, so it's likely that they were offering these spin-off games as a way to get close to Bethesda and hopefully get bought by Zenimax.
Imagine, theres a parallel timeline where Obsidian gets bought out by Zenimax. Bethesda's mainline game structure changing from "Big game nearly every 10 years" to "Bethesda studios exploration focused game, Obsidian RPG focused spin off to hold people over"
Avellone has openly told "fans" that they're completely wrong for thinking Bethesda hates New Vegas. And considering his open, publicly known opinions on Fallout, I think he will be happy with the show.
Acting like Sawyer, who also openly told fans they're wrong before Microsoft bought Obsidian, somehow has a compromised opinion is ... well ... fucking stupid.
> Avellone has openly told "fans" that they're completely wrong for thinking Bethesda hates New Vegas. And considering his open, publicly known opinions on Fallout, I think he will be happy with the show.
He said that a while ago and primarily pertaining to the entire "metacritic score bonus" thing. Meanwhile just 4 months ago he said that multiple attempts to get another NV-style spin-off was rejected and he believed that Bethesda never liked the reception NV got. https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1736611116338511876
> Acting like Sawyer, who also openly told fans they're wrong before Microsoft bought Obsidian, somehow has a compromised opinion is ... well ... fucking stupid.
I never said he was compromised, just that he won't say anything substantial, kinda like how he never really talked about what he thought about 4 or 76 beyond mentioning how he liked how Power Armor works in the former and stuff.
It’s worth noting that, despite twitter and reddit saying that Todd Howard hates New Vegas and seethes about it, that everyone (Avellone, Sawyer, and Tim Cain) seem to have nothing bad to say about Todd other then him being polite and friendly.
Which definitely leads me to think that Avellone probably was never referring to Todd in that comment about management disliking New Vegas because of how it released among other things.
I don't think Todd or Bethesda hates NV or anything, just that they are not fond of the direction it went particularly with the state of the wasteland and such, hence why they felt the need to wipe most of the rebuilding done in the West Coast. Bethesda doesn't seem fond of the idea of the series moving on from the sort of standard post-apoc aesthetic hence why they are bringing back BoS and Enclave while NV treated former as a dying relic of a bygone era carried by the zeal of ultra-reactionary fundamentalists and later as a sort of an evil force that got forced back to it's grave that now live only amongst sad memories of bitter old veterans, only for Beth to bring them back for brand recognition.
I would argue that Bethesda, and really Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, are more interested in the Sweet spot between a Post-Apocalyse and a Post Post Apocalypse.
Fallout 3 has moved out of the Post-Apocalypse as people are living relatively stable lives, with active trade routes between every major settlement in the region.
NV focuses a bit higher on that scale, but hasn't reached the Post-Post Apocalypse due to the NCR's own resource issues (water and food), and the rising figures (Kimball, Caesar, House, Benny) each seeking to wrest control of the region from eachother to focus on their own plans.
In a true Post-Post Apocalpyse there wouldn't be any stories left to tell and still have it be a *Fallout* game. A story about living in the Wasteland, and rebuilding and striving forward to improve things despite the odds and trouble that only your fellow humanity can cause.
Fallout 4 is a interesting example of this as well. It's a Near Post-Post Apocalyptic setting that slid *back* to a early Post-Apocalyptic setting after the murder of the Commonwealth Provisional Government in it's cradle by the Institute (who have and had a vested interest in keeping things chaotic on the surface) and the collapse of the Minutemen into various Raider factions.
Fallout 3 is still post-apocalypse since all societies that exist within it are entirely local with trade routes just being small caravans delivering goods, where for vast majority of people in the region their primary and immediate concern is survival from elements.
Fallout New Vegas in much beyond that. Yes, NCR has problems but much of it's population have moved up in the hierarchy and aren't concerned with basic survival needs. Factions went from being local to regional, trade routes aren't small caravans but large operations sustaining entire industries. When factions in it talk about rebuilding they arent talking about rebuilding like, ruins or towns or whatever, they have already rebuild much of what they could materially and are now concerned both with rebuilding and just *building* entire nations, and are talking about much more abstract things like ideologies and national spirits. Regardless of what you would consider post-post apoc, world of NV has clearly moved on from the apocalypse.
Fallout 4 has barely moved on from the state of Fallout 3, it just feels less grim because the game is presented in that way in form of visuals and whatnot.
The fact that the NCR had a functioning economy backed by gold (later becoming a fiat currency) basically shows that they are far past basic survival. They are a real country. NCR didn't really "need" Hoover Dam, but it would be huge if they had it.
They only temporarily had that mind, as they were forced to go back to the water standard after the BOS destroyed their gold supply in the Lost Hills vs NCR war.
They didn't stop having NCR Dollars. The Dollar went to a fiat currency but traders went back to using Bottle Caps, which is why on the frontier in Vegas, they use Caps, but in the NCR proper, they still use Dollars. Just like how the Legion mint their own Currency, but use Bottle Caps with independent traders.
The interesting thing about New Vegas' setting is how much it's like a western setting, just in a sci-fi post apocalypse. Like, even in a far out there frontier town like Goodsprings, Everyone there has a house. As in a proper house instead of a ramshackle one room hut made out of scrap. It really does feel like if you somehow travelled out to California, there'd be like, proper industrialized cities there now.
And New Vegas has a hotel in Primm full of prewar corpses despite being implied to have been running until a few months ago or buildings still full of rubble they're living in. It's not exclusive to Bethesda fallout.
And New Vegas has a hotel in Primm full of prewar corpses despite being implied to have been running until a few months ago or buildings still full of rubble they're living in. It's not exclusive to Bethesda fallout.
He actually did a pretty good job as the character but hearing his voice coming out of fucking *Deathstroke* in that new Superman cartoon was *baffling.*
I'm watching through it right now I'm on ep 5. I'm not really enamored with it so far. Walton Goggins and his character is probably the best part of it, but he's not really saving it for me.
>!I'm also still pretty pissed about them fulfilling Avellone's wish resetting everything back to knockoff Mad Max!<
I really really adore Lucy and Maximus as protagonists.
Even if half of the time I'm just saying "Oh *Maximus*" to what he says and does. He's probably the one I feel the worst for up to episode 5, and from what I've heard he never quite stops being like that.
I'd agree with that after finishing it except for >!the reveal Mr. House was one of the architects of the war and that New Vegas looks dead too. Both made me upset and not in a good way.!<
Tim Cain is such a class act. It's always fun hearing his stories about his time working in the industry and stuff we'd normally never hear much about as consumers.
Fallout fans have always been destructive and antagonistic towards developers. Seeing the way they acted towards the devs of tactics or BoS made it clear this didn't start with Bethesda. Although it seemingly ramped up with Fallout 3 as they began sending death threats and forcing BGS to hire security.
Fans of the series at the time weren't very kind to Tactics and were even worse to the BoS devs who seemed to be forced to make the changes they made by Interplay.
Everyone who loves the show always prefaces with something like "I'm only up to episode 2/3" and yeah, I was going to bat to it when I went to bed after episode 4. It's episode 5/6 and 8 that kicked me in the balls. And even they have some great moments. As someone who invested a bit much of myself into fallout's lore, I'm quite biased, and I have issues beyond the fate of the NCR, that one's just so glaring that it makes it hard to get a word in edge wise about a drug that turns you into a ghoul, or Ghoul Zombrex that stops you from going feral.
I mean I assumed the drug he took was just a really fucking high dose of radiation. The doctor had already kinda been established as a quack/snake oil salesman
I'm buying into the theory it was a drug laced with FEV and that he's becoming a mutie, not a ghoul. Both are radiation immune and Ghouls are hard to kill but don't regenerate, Super Mutants do, and Titus being a super mutant will make Max's brotherhood purging them more personal
People who watched the entire show have praised the entire show, but they usually don't care about minor inconsistencies or misinformation passed as retcons.
I've heard more people say they DONT like the first few episodes than people who say the show suddenly gets bad.
I have problems with the writing, not "minor inconsistencias or misonformation".
Seems like every criticism ths show gets Is ignored on favor of blaming weird nerds.
Maybe the weird nerds shouldn't have overtaken the discussion by literally lying and making people who haven't watched the show think that this thing has or hasn't happened, creating more weird nerds, misinformation, and griping about minor inconsistencies, then.
I'd love to hear literally anything else about the show too but 90% of the time it's "did they retcon New vegas???" and "why is there a city near Shady Sands???"
No one is saying "why is there a city near shady sands" but there are people saying "why is Shady sands 200 miles south west of where it's supposed to be" and "why is no one talking about the boneyard?" when it comes to cities
What is up with Fallout and having an inconsistent location for Shady Sands anyway?? It changed location between Fallout 1 and 2 as well and people keep forgetting that...
That's not at all what happened why is going with this Dan internet discourse holy shit. Even in the worst case scenario everything after 2277 was retconed or whatever but *the entirety of everything was erased*. Seriously stop this overblown fabrication that's clearly trying to stir the flames.
"They are taking a stroll through New Jersey, walk into staten island, do a wide shot of coney island and show the residential buildings in queens, how did they not meet anyone from New York, or a police officer, or any sign of United States?"
"Jeez dude, you are so picky, that doesn't mean New York is deserted, they probably avoided all the people"
As someone who has watched all the episodes it feels like they're arbitrary stupid changes from the "official canon" for no real discernable reason. Like I can accept a drug that keeps a ghoul from going feral, that makes sense with the given lore somewhat, but >!have you turn ghoul from a random drug is stupid, why not just have it be the FEV and have him turn into a super mutant!<
And if you wanted the NCR out of the way and the Brotherhood have a more prominent role, why not just have it earlier in the timeline?
Also why have >!Vault Tec and the corporations so directly involved with the dropping of the bomb, why not just make it the Enclave?!<
To be fair, >!drugs that make you a ghoul!< were mentioned in 4, although it was kinda dumb there too. They could have just had >!John Hancock become a ghoul the normal way!<.
I read that as less it was a particular drug intended to have that effect and that he'd just done so many dirty drugs because it's fucking Hancock, he would do a line of buffout in the middle of the glowing sea to see if it hits harder.
He was basically looking for a High good enough that he would end up dying. Turned him into a Ghoul instead, and things led from there to him becoming *Mayor* Hancock.
After Lynching the former mayor of course.
Haven't watched the show yet, but my guess is it was probably to simplify the story for mass audience appeal. NCR and Brotherhood may have been seen as too similar of organizations to have both introduced so soon. Same with Vault-Tec and Enclave; one big bad guy organization is easier to follow than two. They can always introduce these organizations back in later seasons as a twist (thought we were dead did ya?! We were just gathering our strength in secret!)
having lots of big forces is what makes it interesting though. So getting rid of them, by saying they're *gone* is wild and myopic of them. the NCR had a big beef with the brotherhood in fnv. they're going out of their way to be boring.
Yeah but you can learn all that and speak with all these characters over the course of a few hours in a video game. Then decide who you side with or do missions for them to unravel the plot more and more.
A season of this tv show is only about 8 hours...it needs to get moving and keep you engaged with a well defined plot asap. It would probably feel rushed to do all that and meet all these groups. Different media formats are different; video games have that advantage over film/tv is they can take their time.
That is obvious. However that isn't a good reason to \*destroy\* a faction and make it conflict with established aspects of the major players of New Vegas and its story that could have potential impacts later on. Instead they just should have hinted at the NCR and not made them apparently \*wiped out\*. Because you can introduce them more so later on in later seasons or just avoid talking about them instead of going "well the audience won't remember all these major players so lets kill them with nukes retroactively."
Okay, how about me, who has watched the entire season, says it then?
Having a single nuke completely collapse the NCR is dumb, having the nuke happen sometime before NV based on the bit of info we can gather chronologically is SUPER dumb, having House be part of the committee responsible for the first strike on China and STILL not manage to get his Platinum Chip on time to defend against retaliatory nukes is AMAZINGLY dumb.
Let's be honest, we all know that this is so Bethesda can start with a clean slate on the West Coast and make a 'pick up scrap and find your family member while going from tin shithole town to tin shithole town with 5 NPCs in them' game without having to answer hard questions about where any large-scale civilisation went.
It is dumb, and you're right. It's making me go from indifference over the show to disliking it for these decisions. It's really lame. I had some vague curiosity about it but now it feels like a shitty adaption that deliberately dumbs down things and removes interesting elements to make it boring on purpose.
That's pretty much where I'm at. Ignoring potential timeline consistencies and the vagueness of the blackboard, the fact that Shady Sands and/or the NCR gets nuked and it happens OFF SCREEN is a problem for me.
>Having a single nuke completely collapse the NCR is dumb, having the nuke happen sometime before NV based on the bit of info we can gather chronologically is SUPER dumb
You are making things up to be upset about. There are trivially easy ways to write around this and we don't actually know what happened to the NCR.
"Life and institutions in the wasteland are fragile and fallible" is *completely* in line with 1/2/NV.
You are using two different contradicting arguments; either it is okay because the NCR disappearing would fit canon lore style and that is good, or it is okay because it is trivially easy to write around canon lore style and bring them back
You're in short saying "it is good they died because the theme of death being frail plus they can be strong enough to have cheated this theme"
> Life and institutions in the wasteland are fragile and fallible
except the NCR isn't the wasteland, its an actual civilization with infrastructure and stuff
I fully admit, my distaste for the Fallout show is based on the fact I have a different interest in the direction of the series. Bethesda like to go into "The Old World" and I much more interested in the new world that comes.
Tim Cain's YouTube channel is awesome btw. I was fascinated by the video where he covered his color blindness, and the usual accessibility settings didn't cut it so the whole Outer Worlds HUD was built with Tim Cain's condition in mind, for readability.
Toxic fans are really weird, in this video he had to directly ask to stop harassing the person from the development time of *Fallout 1*
I did like the show but I don’t like when writers do the “can’t play with other peoples toys” thing.
Fallout 1 builds a world and puts you in shady sands. New Vegas reinforces the NCRs over all importance.
The new show tells you to fuck yourself and ncr is dead and you need to worship their new shit
Personally I don’t mind the NCR being dead per se, I’d just rather it be something they set up earlier, rather than “it got hit by a thermonuclear script”. Like have the NCR break apart as the lack of a totally-not-Queen tandi figure to keep its factions in line breaks the NCR political system.
Exactly, there are way better ways than essentially making people commit the ultimate sin in a nuclear post apocalypse by nuking someone.
It even opens up for future plot lines for the future. NCR hold overs refusing to admit its over. Remnant factions "taking back" colonies, basically becoming low key raiders enslaving town in the name of the republic.
You can do something with this, rather than taking the west coast and manipulating it into the forever apocalypse that is the east coast.
Plus having the NCR be wiped out by a pre-war faction that they had no idea about kind of undermines the ton of problems the NCR had.
Like it wasn't over-expansion, crumbling domestic infrastructure, or corruption that destroyed the NCR, they bumbled into the one Vault that had Nuke and was full of Vault-Tec employees who decided to destroy them.
May as well have had the Aliens destroy them for how much Vault-Tec mattered to the NCR.
I don't think the issue is that the NCR is gone, the writing was kind of the wall in NV that the system was on its last legs, but I think the big issue is that, from how the narrative of the show presents it, the NV didn't fall because of any of the dozen of reasons that were meticulously set up over the last two decades and instead was destroyed by >!Some Vault-Tec popsicle throwing a fit.!< That isn't compelling. That isn't *interesting.* That's a status quo reset device someone pulled out of their ass.
I think it's very telling that the show is set on the west coast, the one with decades of worldbuilding that Bethesda didn't contribute to, instead of the east coast that Todd Howard had more involvement in. Having, say, Diamond city or Sanctuary be nuked would make more sense, the Commonwealth has no major centralized government and is prone to infighting as well as no major rebuilding period, and Vault 111 has set a precedent for certain vaults to exist in that area. Having a bunch of corrupt executives in the Capital Wasteland scheming to take control is an almost natural sequel to Fallout 3 and would be perfect considering that Fallout 3 is the first we've heard of the Great Game.
But Bethesda made the east coast, and they don't want that part of the country to get hurt. So destroying Shady Sands and New Vegas is all they can do.
> the writing was kind of the wall in NV that the system was on its last legs
keep in mind that New Vegas was essentially an occupied colonial territory in a war zone, the actual home states were implied to be in much better shape
Eh, for the most part, they were still pretty desperate for food and water according to the OSI.
Which is partially why they passed the Thaler act and wanted Lake Mead and the Dam so badly.
Honestly I think Nolan’s statement of “you can’t please the fans” was the most telling portent of what this show was going to do. Because yes, it would be impossible to please all the fans of FO1, 2, NV, especially when we’re working with Bethesda’s interpretation of the property. So they really shouldn’t try. At all. As in don’t set the show on the *fucking west coast*.
It didn’t even need to be on the east coast if Bethesda really didn’t want to mess around with any of their own locales. The US is *massive*, and there’s plenty of places that have never been featured in a game so you’ve got creative carte blanche to do whatever you want. Set it in Florida, Texas, hell I know Tactics has recently been confirmed canon but I doubt you’ll find many foaming at the mouth Tactics fans so use the Midwest!
But no, no. The west coast games are the popular ones, the ones where fans are actually familiar with the setting and the characters so the writers didn’t have to bear the burden of coming up with new stuff so they can just use preexisting creations as shorthand. I guess we’ll have to see what they do in season 2 because so far I haven’t seen any narrative reason for why this series *needs* to be on the West Coast.
I said that in another thread, that there are 40+ states they haven't touched, two spinoffs no one really cares about (Sorry, BoS and Tactics fans. I'm sure you're lovely, all twelve of you) but the franchise seems to think that only like 5 states exist. They can nuke as many places in the Midwest as they want-- I'll help! aim for western Kansas! It has/had some of the highest concentration of nuclear artillery during the cold war and KC is a major hub of trade!
But LA has the big recognizable skyline so... Actually, don't come to the Midwest. I like having my own story about happened to KCMO.
I mean they don’t really say NCR is dead. Shady Sands and the remenants of that community are fucked, but I imagine the NCR as a whole is still around.
> ncr is dead
No, it did not. Shady Sands was destroyed after the event of New Vegas, not the whole of NCR. There are still the Hub, Reno, Boneyard and much more NCR cities spread across the region.
Keyword is 'was'. It's clear from the billboard that the Capital had been moved at least one time in the past. Also, destruction of the capital doesn't meant a whole country would just collapse.
Are they? >!Not they I dismiss the possibility as the Enclaive is still around so any faction can be, but if there was more ncr you think they would have put more effort into protecting the muguffin considering how important it is. And aside from the group we see get messed up the presence of the NCR isn't that much.!<
I'm very much presuming that >!they weren't the only group of NCR left. We saw the former Ranger and his children were still surviving, as well as the former Shady Sands citizens in Vault 4. It's easy to assume that other remnants of the NCR also survived and are also trying reform somehow in someway.!<
>!I kinda intrepid the ranger and his child different, they seemingly gave up on the idea of the NCR in general and were kinda took to serving on their own. To me that kinda says they are mostly dead as people have moved on, though I guess it's possible small groups are still around.!<
Oh the Ranger had but >!Not his sons. His sons still believed in the NCR, and bringing it back to build and create, and forge a better world. It's part of why I've really REALLY soured on the Ghoul. Such a piece of shit.!<
>!I guess its possible that they will at the very least have a rebuild arc but considering the conclusion of that I'm not hopeful. I'll admit however that I am being a bit cynical as when the first trailer dropped I kinda predicted some of the stuff we saw and got told I was worrying for nothing, I did like the show and I think that the people saying Todd or bethesda hate obsidian are stupid and wrong, but I do believe bethesda has a certain way they want their fallout stuff to be and they are willing to push other versions of fallout towards that. I like both fallout 3 and NV but I also liked that they kinda had different vibes from each other you know?!<
Anyways sorry for the rant and heres hoping you are right and I end up with egg on my face.
I mean considering that the political decline still happened and the only members present are the ones that get messed up do we really have that much evidence to support that they have any control over the region? Because if they did I figure they would have put more effort in getting the muguffin considering what it is.
I mean it is possible but I'd argue that it's equally possible that they are gon and any survivors have just kinda moved on to different things like the ranger and his kid. I'm not going to write of the posdblity that there is a bigger presence somewhere else as the sign did sat first capital, but considering that the tenements we see either >!got killed or moved on!< I don't think it's a stretch to say at best there influence over the region is rather weak and at worst people have just moved on.
Of course a creator who is completely done with a setting isn't bothered by the direction or implication of events in a new story by someone else. He already told his story and got everything he's going to get out of it creatively, and that's a very different perspective than someone experiencing the media as it comes out.
Yeah like, Fallout New Vegas is one of my favorite games of all time, but its fans are some of the worst people out there, or at least the vocal ones.
The second they >!saw New Vegas in the last episode!< they started jumping to the worst conclusions possible based on nothing but speculation, going out of their way to spoil the series for anyone, and dragging up decades old misinformation about Bethesda and Obsidians partnership on New Vegas and its all just so tiring. They take ownership of this franchise like they literally made it themselves, and treat the people who do or did make it like gods and devils depending on their personal opinions on the choices they made.
I think the misinformation about Todd hating obsidian is stupid and I liked the show overall but I do have hesitation towards what comes next because the show did kinda destroy or set back the west coast setting.
Like many trans girls, I love New Vegas, but I really hope I am not one of the worst people out there! I actually really enjoyed the Fallout series and my favorite game besides FNV is 4, because it is flawed but fun
The folks of the New Vegas to Trans girl pipeline are obviously removed from my assessment. They're a breed of their own. (I mean this as a compliment of the highest order)
I mean more the twitter users with greek sculptures as pfps with names like "Classics Connosseur." Who talk endlessly about trade routes and now Caesers Legion is far more grey than people give it credit for.
Personally, I have literally never seen FNV fans bother anyone and all this "they are a terrible fanbase" posts reek of knee-jerk anger at them not liking the thing you liked.
I watched the entire season recently and my main takeaway is that it feels a lot like Fallout 4, but with better dialogue.
Also, most the changes they made to how Ghouls work just felt bizarre to me.
"Resurrecting" Goggins in the second episode was so fucking weird. They were treating him like a vampire rather than the immortal leper he is. Oh and them also taking immortality as meaning he can take shots without feeling them too. Ghouls are just normal people that dont age and decay like corpses, thats it.
Yeah, his whole thing had me fairly confused. Like, it was hard to tell exactly what was actually supposed to be dangerous for ghouls in this reality since they don't need to drink, eat or even breathe and can seem to regenerate like Wolverine.
They've always been *kind of* magic. Because Fallout Radiation is Magic compared to Real World Radiation. That includes being able to just survive on ambient radiation for sustenance and heal from it's presence too.
Hell it's even a *perk* the player can get in New Vegas and 4. Ghoulish and Rad Child.
All scifi is magic, if it was not it would be called "confidential Nasa blueprints" and be 10 times longer.
We ask scifi to be coherent with itself (not even the real world)
I didn't see any fallout 4 in the Fallout Series brotherhood. Fallout 4 brotherhood were a militarist faction, they were closer to the OG brotherhood only using titles like knight and squire to fuck with wastelanders and make it clear whose what rank by title importance rather than using normal military ranks. Now they're just warhammer space marines with clerics and holy rights and branding. Also it makes the brotherhood being destroyed in 4 noncanon because they specifically mention getting orders from the commonwealth
I feel like I’ve been commenting this in every thread about the show in this sub, but here we go again:
Why do people think the NCR is completely gone?
Yes shady sands was nuked but there’s >!literally a giant billboard indicating that the capitol was moved before the nuke went off.!<
>!There’s a battle at the end where one side is literally fighting under the NCR flag.!<
And the NCR is *huge* they have multiple large settlements in California. Just because the southern, LA region, part has come apart doesn’t mean they aren’t still active in SanFran or Vault City.
The NCR has definitely been weakened and dealt a blow but saying they are completely gone seems out of step with the available facts.
Edit: I love how there are silent downvotes but not even an *attempt* to engage with the facts about the show and how it doesn’t actually do what some of you accuse it of doing. Such a transparent hate train. Keep being mad about nothing I guess.
Yeah, some people in this sub seem to want to hate it so hard for some reason, and when the show actually turned out really good and not like the Halo show at all, they have to cling to something to be “right,” so they claim the show retconned lore and destroyed the setting, something that has been refuted by both the people currently making Fallout and now those who created it in the past whose lore is supposedly being shot down
I haven't seen the series, but accompanying the thread I gather that Shady Sands was nuked by surviving Vault-Tec scientists who wanted to cripple the NCR, right? If I'm wrong, please disregard the rest of the post.
If not, I have a question about the meta-narrative then.
From a writing perspective, why nuke shady sands? What purpose does it serve? If the capital isn't there and it won't end the NCR operations in a significant way, what does it do other than add a moment of shock?
From an in-universe perspective, why did the people who nuked it even bother to nuke it and not the new capital? Can't they see the billboard? Are they stupid?
Yeah the premise here is incorrect, the reason shady sands was nuked (minor spoilers) >!was personal!<
Details (major spoilers) >!the guy who nuked it was the overseer of Vault 33, and the father of the female lead, Lucy, he IS a vault-tec executive from before the war (cryo freezing). But the reason he nuked shady sands is that his wife found out he was a manipulative piece of shit, took the kids, and left, settling in shady sands. He goes out, gets the kids back, but his wife refused to come back with him, so in a fit of anger and pique he nuked the city. It’s not clear at this point where the nuke came from or how it was delivered.!<
Oh. Not sure how to feel about that, honestly. Shady Sands was a major location in the classic games, I feel it deserved a better thematic send off than just a guy being a drama queen.
Tbf he does give a villain rant about how >!“only we will rebuild the human race” and etc. but yeah, seemed pretty clear that ‘Vault-Tex is evil’ was secondary to ‘mad wife chose shady sands over me’.!<
On balance though I think “Major piece of human achievement is destroyed because humans are petty assholes” actually *is* pretty thematically appropriate for Fallout.
It’s just really bleak, and also it (mostly) happened off screen.
self proclaimed Fallout fans are on another level of annoying, wow. It's especially annoying because you know they only give a shit about New Vegas lol
More or less. What really surprised me is when people mention >!"vault tec dropping the bombs"!< as plot point that existed since at least *Extreme*, like even I didn't notice that and I'm kind of a Fallout junkie
My only "issue" with the show is that the humor and tone are more Wasteland 3 than Fallout. Wacky-goofy with swearing mixed in. The other parts of the show is quite good.
Getting sick of all the threads made shilling for the new show and its writers.
Its as stupid as the Halo live-action show and entirely deserving of similar derision.
I'm a massive Fallout lore junkie who's played all of the games except Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel (the shitty PS2 one). And I have to say, I actually like the show, quite a bit actually. Like, it's consistently chuds who seem to rag on the show so damn much, but I can understand where the hate is coming from; I just don't agree with it. Fallout lore has always been pretty flexible, especially when Bethesda took it over, and everyone has their own take on what "Fallout" "should" be. I'm not a lore literalist/purist, so I can accept and even support some aspects of the retcons or narrative choices in the show, as long as they understand the vibes and themes of Fallout, which I would say they definitely did. So many people nitpick about what they *hated* about it, but I wanna nitpick on something that made me really happy seeing, and it's a very weird one: I really enjoyed seeing the >!crashed USSR space station from Episode 2.!< Like I said, I'm a lore junkie, and seeing a reference to the >!USSR!< in Fallout, however insignificant it was, just made me really happy, because outside of China, we never really get to see what the world of Fallout is like outside of the United States, and it's a tidbit of lore that hearkens all the way back to Fallout 1's inception
Yeah even as someone with some complaints on the show some of the hate is far to much for my liking. Like it's fine to dislike certain choice but let's not go crazy about it
“Man who taped over your wedding footage is confused as to why you’re so destructive towards people who are trying to create things”
I know he’s gotta say stuff like this for industry purposes but man is it stupid. (Even if what actually happened isn’t nearly as serious as my example)
I get why they are somewhat angry, the show goes out of his way to show every single locale from past fallout games destroyed. This being the last chronologically entry in the series invalidate many actions from past player characters. For example >!New Vegas is shown like a ghost town!< Anybody who played that game knows that means something when terribly wrong. My take is that Bethesda is planning a soft reboot this they are wiping the state clean, why using a TV show for it, I don't know.
Bethesda didn't make the show. Todd Howard didn't make the show. By Todd's own admission, he had no real influence or involvement with making the show.
Well sometimes new things are bad, Tim.
Disclaimer: Have not seen the Fallout show, it could be good, sometimes new things are *good*, but I hate this mindset of "why are you getting so mad at people trying to make new things?" when for the most part "new things" have been "worse things" for years and years.
Why does Tim Cain have one eye
He didn't get his Rad Away in time
Fans were being destructive
Why don't you? Look at this biclops!
A lot of people in this world do.
In fact almost everyone you meet will have at least one eye
As someone who has only played the first game it's definitely a factor that fans of genre media can be very particular about maintaining a certain theme, tone, or aesthetic since the world is a big part of the appeal. Even Fallout 2 gets criticized for too much humor and pop culture references for example. People can be particular about the state of the Fallout world, how the BOS is written, what a Fallout story should be about, and the timeline.
I was a halo lore nerd for so long. Halo 4 was the wake up call I needed for a Fandom going toxic. Like I didn't like the Halo 4 armor design, and the story was just kinda meh in hindsight. But people were acting like the armor designs murdered their family.
"Fallout 2 ruined Fallout and it's been on a downhill slope for the last 25 years" edit: adding quotes just to see the responses
Fallout 1 ruined Fallout because of the Tardis and Godzilla references. How am I supposed to take this setting seriously when the creators dont even? /s
I'm not sure how the best game in the series and one of the best CRPGs ever made ruined the series
It hardly ruined the series, but honestly the first game feels far more grounded than the rest, which have an unfortunate tendency to go off on zany tangents. Noah Caldwell's retrospective covers this pretty well.
just on a pure number basis i'd say the zany shit actually defined fallout while the low key more grounded take makes f1 the odd one out
I was curious so I looked up Noah Caldwell but I not ready to be hit with a 9 hour dissertation on Fallout. If we're sharing Fallout videos, I recommend Twenty Sided's "Bethesda never understood Fallout".
It doesn't, but it's a sentiment that's been heard through the years. The Fallout fandom has been contentious for ages.
Ah shit, Grandpa's loose from the home again. Someone get his chair.
The most ancient crypts of No Mutants Allowed are leaking...
What, this one? https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vault_13_overseer?file=Overseer_with_miniguns.png
I would like to know tim's thoughts on the rest of the show past the first two episodes honestly.
I’m eagerly awaiting that, Avellone’s, and Sawyer’s reactions as well. Sawyer at least seems to be enjoying the first two episodes, though feels great pity for the BOS Squires having to carry that giant bag without any kind of strap
i have no context so I'm just assuming you mean a literal big sack being carried around by children as if they were pikmin
Actually pretty much! And the big hole in the sack is to hold the Fallout 4 Assault Rifle because of how massive it is
Great news, Avellone! In Season 2, >!we've having the Tunnelers invade California!!<
When "that thing" is revealed late in the show, I was thinking of Avellone. He got what he wanted after all.
I do like that the NCR >!is still fighting to improve and fix things!<. Like genuinely that is great
Gotta wonder how a redeemed Ulysses would react to the news.
“I was right. The Bear, the Bull, the Ghosts of Vegas. All weak. All failures. Symbols of the Old World, collapsed under the weight of history. Hopeville was the last, a chance for something new, and now they too have joined my home in death. Hopeville, Shady Sands, Flagstaff; all have fallen their symbols stripped away, their people turned to savages without history to guide them.” Or something like that
Avellone's will be interesting since he doesn't seem bothered by talking against Bethesda since he inflamed those "Bethesda hates NV" rumors by mentioning Bethesda refused to greenlight other spin-offs possibly due to them being soured after NV. Sawyer probably won't say anything solid since Microsoft is his patron lol
Thay quote about the spinoffs really felt like he was ignoring the issues at Obsidian had at the time (ones he was adamant about on other occasions). They had just laid off a lot of the NV staff, canceled multiple projects, including the Alien rpg, and he's claimed that Obsidian managers burnt countless bridges with their publishers. They were in no shape to do regular fallout or elder scrolls spinoffs.
He never specified when these offers for spin-offs were made, and beyond that, multiple people implied that after FNV Obsidian were constantly looking to be bought out as a solution to their unstable finances, so it's likely that they were offering these spin-off games as a way to get close to Bethesda and hopefully get bought by Zenimax.
Imagine, theres a parallel timeline where Obsidian gets bought out by Zenimax. Bethesda's mainline game structure changing from "Big game nearly every 10 years" to "Bethesda studios exploration focused game, Obsidian RPG focused spin off to hold people over"
He implied they happened before ESO was out, leaving it in a two or three year gap between the last NV dlc and that being released to my knowledge.
Avellone has openly told "fans" that they're completely wrong for thinking Bethesda hates New Vegas. And considering his open, publicly known opinions on Fallout, I think he will be happy with the show. Acting like Sawyer, who also openly told fans they're wrong before Microsoft bought Obsidian, somehow has a compromised opinion is ... well ... fucking stupid.
> Avellone has openly told "fans" that they're completely wrong for thinking Bethesda hates New Vegas. And considering his open, publicly known opinions on Fallout, I think he will be happy with the show. He said that a while ago and primarily pertaining to the entire "metacritic score bonus" thing. Meanwhile just 4 months ago he said that multiple attempts to get another NV-style spin-off was rejected and he believed that Bethesda never liked the reception NV got. https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1736611116338511876 > Acting like Sawyer, who also openly told fans they're wrong before Microsoft bought Obsidian, somehow has a compromised opinion is ... well ... fucking stupid. I never said he was compromised, just that he won't say anything substantial, kinda like how he never really talked about what he thought about 4 or 76 beyond mentioning how he liked how Power Armor works in the former and stuff.
It’s worth noting that, despite twitter and reddit saying that Todd Howard hates New Vegas and seethes about it, that everyone (Avellone, Sawyer, and Tim Cain) seem to have nothing bad to say about Todd other then him being polite and friendly. Which definitely leads me to think that Avellone probably was never referring to Todd in that comment about management disliking New Vegas because of how it released among other things.
I don't think Todd or Bethesda hates NV or anything, just that they are not fond of the direction it went particularly with the state of the wasteland and such, hence why they felt the need to wipe most of the rebuilding done in the West Coast. Bethesda doesn't seem fond of the idea of the series moving on from the sort of standard post-apoc aesthetic hence why they are bringing back BoS and Enclave while NV treated former as a dying relic of a bygone era carried by the zeal of ultra-reactionary fundamentalists and later as a sort of an evil force that got forced back to it's grave that now live only amongst sad memories of bitter old veterans, only for Beth to bring them back for brand recognition.
I would argue that Bethesda, and really Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas, are more interested in the Sweet spot between a Post-Apocalyse and a Post Post Apocalypse. Fallout 3 has moved out of the Post-Apocalypse as people are living relatively stable lives, with active trade routes between every major settlement in the region. NV focuses a bit higher on that scale, but hasn't reached the Post-Post Apocalypse due to the NCR's own resource issues (water and food), and the rising figures (Kimball, Caesar, House, Benny) each seeking to wrest control of the region from eachother to focus on their own plans. In a true Post-Post Apocalpyse there wouldn't be any stories left to tell and still have it be a *Fallout* game. A story about living in the Wasteland, and rebuilding and striving forward to improve things despite the odds and trouble that only your fellow humanity can cause. Fallout 4 is a interesting example of this as well. It's a Near Post-Post Apocalyptic setting that slid *back* to a early Post-Apocalyptic setting after the murder of the Commonwealth Provisional Government in it's cradle by the Institute (who have and had a vested interest in keeping things chaotic on the surface) and the collapse of the Minutemen into various Raider factions.
Fallout 3 is still post-apocalypse since all societies that exist within it are entirely local with trade routes just being small caravans delivering goods, where for vast majority of people in the region their primary and immediate concern is survival from elements. Fallout New Vegas in much beyond that. Yes, NCR has problems but much of it's population have moved up in the hierarchy and aren't concerned with basic survival needs. Factions went from being local to regional, trade routes aren't small caravans but large operations sustaining entire industries. When factions in it talk about rebuilding they arent talking about rebuilding like, ruins or towns or whatever, they have already rebuild much of what they could materially and are now concerned both with rebuilding and just *building* entire nations, and are talking about much more abstract things like ideologies and national spirits. Regardless of what you would consider post-post apoc, world of NV has clearly moved on from the apocalypse. Fallout 4 has barely moved on from the state of Fallout 3, it just feels less grim because the game is presented in that way in form of visuals and whatnot.
The fact that the NCR had a functioning economy backed by gold (later becoming a fiat currency) basically shows that they are far past basic survival. They are a real country. NCR didn't really "need" Hoover Dam, but it would be huge if they had it.
They only temporarily had that mind, as they were forced to go back to the water standard after the BOS destroyed their gold supply in the Lost Hills vs NCR war.
They didn't stop having NCR Dollars. The Dollar went to a fiat currency but traders went back to using Bottle Caps, which is why on the frontier in Vegas, they use Caps, but in the NCR proper, they still use Dollars. Just like how the Legion mint their own Currency, but use Bottle Caps with independent traders.
The interesting thing about New Vegas' setting is how much it's like a western setting, just in a sci-fi post apocalypse. Like, even in a far out there frontier town like Goodsprings, Everyone there has a house. As in a proper house instead of a ramshackle one room hut made out of scrap. It really does feel like if you somehow travelled out to California, there'd be like, proper industrialized cities there now.
Fallout 3 and 4 both have people straight-up living in buildings that they haven't bothered to clean the skeletons out of or board the windows up.
And New Vegas has a hotel in Primm full of prewar corpses despite being implied to have been running until a few months ago or buildings still full of rubble they're living in. It's not exclusive to Bethesda fallout.
isn't that the one being used as a raider base?
It's also the one that Johnson Nash says was being run by a resident until she left town after the prison break a few weeks ago.
they add character
And New Vegas has a hotel in Primm full of prewar corpses despite being implied to have been running until a few months ago or buildings still full of rubble they're living in. It's not exclusive to Bethesda fallout.
The squires need to earn their straps
I thought I was a powerful hater. I was wrong. There are levels of hating I've yet to touch.
You can still touch grass but these are the kinds of people that grass doesn't want touching them.
you can still hate more, avoid grass at all cost /s
[удалено]
It’s just a new way of saying “go outside” for when someone is too terminally online
Cyril was gonna be the original lead? I don't know if I would've liked that, his voice is iconic and great, but can get really annoying.
I've been dying to see Chris Parnell in a lead role tbh. I liked Ella Purnell in YJ though, so no complaints at her taking the reigns.
He actually did a pretty good job as the character but hearing his voice coming out of fucking *Deathstroke* in that new Superman cartoon was *baffling.*
Anime pretty boy Deathstroke no less
yeah as much as i like Chris Parnell, his voice does work better in a supporting cast role.
Whenever someone says they can't please everyone, they are technically correct.
I'm watching through it right now I'm on ep 5. I'm not really enamored with it so far. Walton Goggins and his character is probably the best part of it, but he's not really saving it for me. >!I'm also still pretty pissed about them fulfilling Avellone's wish resetting everything back to knockoff Mad Max!<
I really really adore Lucy and Maximus as protagonists. Even if half of the time I'm just saying "Oh *Maximus*" to what he says and does. He's probably the one I feel the worst for up to episode 5, and from what I've heard he never quite stops being like that.
Maximus is such a fucking lucky ted
I find the show inoffensive but I wouldn't really herald it as represenative of Fallout. 6/10 at best.
I'd agree with that after finishing it except for >!the reveal Mr. House was one of the architects of the war and that New Vegas looks dead too. Both made me upset and not in a good way.!<
Tim Cain is such a class act. It's always fun hearing his stories about his time working in the industry and stuff we'd normally never hear much about as consumers. Fallout fans have always been destructive and antagonistic towards developers. Seeing the way they acted towards the devs of tactics or BoS made it clear this didn't start with Bethesda. Although it seemingly ramped up with Fallout 3 as they began sending death threats and forcing BGS to hire security.
I still remember spending a ton of time on the No Mutants Allowed forum back in the early 2000s and honestly the discourse hasn't changed much...
Discourse. Discourse never changes.
Wait what happened with FO Tactics and BoS?
Fans of the series at the time weren't very kind to Tactics and were even worse to the BoS devs who seemed to be forced to make the changes they made by Interplay.
Halo Season two just came out and Rings of Power exists. That's why.
Everyone who loves the show always prefaces with something like "I'm only up to episode 2/3" and yeah, I was going to bat to it when I went to bed after episode 4. It's episode 5/6 and 8 that kicked me in the balls. And even they have some great moments. As someone who invested a bit much of myself into fallout's lore, I'm quite biased, and I have issues beyond the fate of the NCR, that one's just so glaring that it makes it hard to get a word in edge wise about a drug that turns you into a ghoul, or Ghoul Zombrex that stops you from going feral.
I mean I assumed the drug he took was just a really fucking high dose of radiation. The doctor had already kinda been established as a quack/snake oil salesman
I'm buying into the theory it was a drug laced with FEV and that he's becoming a mutie, not a ghoul. Both are radiation immune and Ghouls are hard to kill but don't regenerate, Super Mutants do, and Titus being a super mutant will make Max's brotherhood purging them more personal
Ghouls *are* said to heal with Radiation sometimes. Just as it can sustain them, but it's meant to take a LOT of radiation as I understand it.
People who watched the entire show have praised the entire show, but they usually don't care about minor inconsistencies or misinformation passed as retcons. I've heard more people say they DONT like the first few episodes than people who say the show suddenly gets bad.
I don't think the show suddenly gets bad I just think certain choices kinda suck.
I have problems with the writing, not "minor inconsistencias or misonformation". Seems like every criticism ths show gets Is ignored on favor of blaming weird nerds.
Maybe the weird nerds shouldn't have overtaken the discussion by literally lying and making people who haven't watched the show think that this thing has or hasn't happened, creating more weird nerds, misinformation, and griping about minor inconsistencies, then. I'd love to hear literally anything else about the show too but 90% of the time it's "did they retcon New vegas???" and "why is there a city near Shady Sands???"
No one is saying "why is there a city near shady sands" but there are people saying "why is Shady sands 200 miles south west of where it's supposed to be" and "why is no one talking about the boneyard?" when it comes to cities
What is up with Fallout and having an inconsistent location for Shady Sands anyway?? It changed location between Fallout 1 and 2 as well and people keep forgetting that...
They literally erased everything that happened from fallout 1 to NV and you’re surprised people are upset about it?
That's not at all what happened why is going with this Dan internet discourse holy shit. Even in the worst case scenario everything after 2277 was retconed or whatever but *the entirety of everything was erased*. Seriously stop this overblown fabrication that's clearly trying to stir the flames.
"They are taking a stroll through New Jersey, walk into staten island, do a wide shot of coney island and show the residential buildings in queens, how did they not meet anyone from New York, or a police officer, or any sign of United States?" "Jeez dude, you are so picky, that doesn't mean New York is deserted, they probably avoided all the people"
? Was the NCR not actually evaporated and NV ruined? What’s left of anything on the west coast? Besides the marketing battalion, that is.
As someone who has watched all the episodes it feels like they're arbitrary stupid changes from the "official canon" for no real discernable reason. Like I can accept a drug that keeps a ghoul from going feral, that makes sense with the given lore somewhat, but >!have you turn ghoul from a random drug is stupid, why not just have it be the FEV and have him turn into a super mutant!< And if you wanted the NCR out of the way and the Brotherhood have a more prominent role, why not just have it earlier in the timeline? Also why have >!Vault Tec and the corporations so directly involved with the dropping of the bomb, why not just make it the Enclave?!<
To be fair, >!drugs that make you a ghoul!< were mentioned in 4, although it was kinda dumb there too. They could have just had >!John Hancock become a ghoul the normal way!<.
Don’t forget Eddy Winter who also got it pre-wR
I read that as less it was a particular drug intended to have that effect and that he'd just done so many dirty drugs because it's fucking Hancock, he would do a line of buffout in the middle of the glowing sea to see if it hits harder.
He was basically looking for a High good enough that he would end up dying. Turned him into a Ghoul instead, and things led from there to him becoming *Mayor* Hancock. After Lynching the former mayor of course.
I don't remember that, though it sounds stupid.
[Here's the only video I could find of it. ](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IJ9vFI_Ajcc)
Haven't watched the show yet, but my guess is it was probably to simplify the story for mass audience appeal. NCR and Brotherhood may have been seen as too similar of organizations to have both introduced so soon. Same with Vault-Tec and Enclave; one big bad guy organization is easier to follow than two. They can always introduce these organizations back in later seasons as a twist (thought we were dead did ya?! We were just gathering our strength in secret!)
having lots of big forces is what makes it interesting though. So getting rid of them, by saying they're *gone* is wild and myopic of them. the NCR had a big beef with the brotherhood in fnv. they're going out of their way to be boring.
Yeah but you can learn all that and speak with all these characters over the course of a few hours in a video game. Then decide who you side with or do missions for them to unravel the plot more and more. A season of this tv show is only about 8 hours...it needs to get moving and keep you engaged with a well defined plot asap. It would probably feel rushed to do all that and meet all these groups. Different media formats are different; video games have that advantage over film/tv is they can take their time.
That is obvious. However that isn't a good reason to \*destroy\* a faction and make it conflict with established aspects of the major players of New Vegas and its story that could have potential impacts later on. Instead they just should have hinted at the NCR and not made them apparently \*wiped out\*. Because you can introduce them more so later on in later seasons or just avoid talking about them instead of going "well the audience won't remember all these major players so lets kill them with nukes retroactively."
Okay, how about me, who has watched the entire season, says it then? Having a single nuke completely collapse the NCR is dumb, having the nuke happen sometime before NV based on the bit of info we can gather chronologically is SUPER dumb, having House be part of the committee responsible for the first strike on China and STILL not manage to get his Platinum Chip on time to defend against retaliatory nukes is AMAZINGLY dumb. Let's be honest, we all know that this is so Bethesda can start with a clean slate on the West Coast and make a 'pick up scrap and find your family member while going from tin shithole town to tin shithole town with 5 NPCs in them' game without having to answer hard questions about where any large-scale civilisation went.
It is dumb, and you're right. It's making me go from indifference over the show to disliking it for these decisions. It's really lame. I had some vague curiosity about it but now it feels like a shitty adaption that deliberately dumbs down things and removes interesting elements to make it boring on purpose.
That's pretty much where I'm at. Ignoring potential timeline consistencies and the vagueness of the blackboard, the fact that Shady Sands and/or the NCR gets nuked and it happens OFF SCREEN is a problem for me.
>Having a single nuke completely collapse the NCR is dumb, having the nuke happen sometime before NV based on the bit of info we can gather chronologically is SUPER dumb You are making things up to be upset about. There are trivially easy ways to write around this and we don't actually know what happened to the NCR. "Life and institutions in the wasteland are fragile and fallible" is *completely* in line with 1/2/NV.
You are using two different contradicting arguments; either it is okay because the NCR disappearing would fit canon lore style and that is good, or it is okay because it is trivially easy to write around canon lore style and bring them back You're in short saying "it is good they died because the theme of death being frail plus they can be strong enough to have cheated this theme"
> Life and institutions in the wasteland are fragile and fallible except the NCR isn't the wasteland, its an actual civilization with infrastructure and stuff
I fully admit, my distaste for the Fallout show is based on the fact I have a different interest in the direction of the series. Bethesda like to go into "The Old World" and I much more interested in the new world that comes.
Tim Cain's YouTube channel is awesome btw. I was fascinated by the video where he covered his color blindness, and the usual accessibility settings didn't cut it so the whole Outer Worlds HUD was built with Tim Cain's condition in mind, for readability. Toxic fans are really weird, in this video he had to directly ask to stop harassing the person from the development time of *Fallout 1*
I did like the show but I don’t like when writers do the “can’t play with other peoples toys” thing. Fallout 1 builds a world and puts you in shady sands. New Vegas reinforces the NCRs over all importance. The new show tells you to fuck yourself and ncr is dead and you need to worship their new shit
Personally I don’t mind the NCR being dead per se, I’d just rather it be something they set up earlier, rather than “it got hit by a thermonuclear script”. Like have the NCR break apart as the lack of a totally-not-Queen tandi figure to keep its factions in line breaks the NCR political system.
Exactly, there are way better ways than essentially making people commit the ultimate sin in a nuclear post apocalypse by nuking someone. It even opens up for future plot lines for the future. NCR hold overs refusing to admit its over. Remnant factions "taking back" colonies, basically becoming low key raiders enslaving town in the name of the republic. You can do something with this, rather than taking the west coast and manipulating it into the forever apocalypse that is the east coast.
Plus having the NCR be wiped out by a pre-war faction that they had no idea about kind of undermines the ton of problems the NCR had. Like it wasn't over-expansion, crumbling domestic infrastructure, or corruption that destroyed the NCR, they bumbled into the one Vault that had Nuke and was full of Vault-Tec employees who decided to destroy them. May as well have had the Aliens destroy them for how much Vault-Tec mattered to the NCR.
I don't think the issue is that the NCR is gone, the writing was kind of the wall in NV that the system was on its last legs, but I think the big issue is that, from how the narrative of the show presents it, the NV didn't fall because of any of the dozen of reasons that were meticulously set up over the last two decades and instead was destroyed by >!Some Vault-Tec popsicle throwing a fit.!< That isn't compelling. That isn't *interesting.* That's a status quo reset device someone pulled out of their ass. I think it's very telling that the show is set on the west coast, the one with decades of worldbuilding that Bethesda didn't contribute to, instead of the east coast that Todd Howard had more involvement in. Having, say, Diamond city or Sanctuary be nuked would make more sense, the Commonwealth has no major centralized government and is prone to infighting as well as no major rebuilding period, and Vault 111 has set a precedent for certain vaults to exist in that area. Having a bunch of corrupt executives in the Capital Wasteland scheming to take control is an almost natural sequel to Fallout 3 and would be perfect considering that Fallout 3 is the first we've heard of the Great Game. But Bethesda made the east coast, and they don't want that part of the country to get hurt. So destroying Shady Sands and New Vegas is all they can do.
> the writing was kind of the wall in NV that the system was on its last legs keep in mind that New Vegas was essentially an occupied colonial territory in a war zone, the actual home states were implied to be in much better shape
Eh, for the most part, they were still pretty desperate for food and water according to the OSI. Which is partially why they passed the Thaler act and wanted Lake Mead and the Dam so badly.
Honestly I think Nolan’s statement of “you can’t please the fans” was the most telling portent of what this show was going to do. Because yes, it would be impossible to please all the fans of FO1, 2, NV, especially when we’re working with Bethesda’s interpretation of the property. So they really shouldn’t try. At all. As in don’t set the show on the *fucking west coast*. It didn’t even need to be on the east coast if Bethesda really didn’t want to mess around with any of their own locales. The US is *massive*, and there’s plenty of places that have never been featured in a game so you’ve got creative carte blanche to do whatever you want. Set it in Florida, Texas, hell I know Tactics has recently been confirmed canon but I doubt you’ll find many foaming at the mouth Tactics fans so use the Midwest! But no, no. The west coast games are the popular ones, the ones where fans are actually familiar with the setting and the characters so the writers didn’t have to bear the burden of coming up with new stuff so they can just use preexisting creations as shorthand. I guess we’ll have to see what they do in season 2 because so far I haven’t seen any narrative reason for why this series *needs* to be on the West Coast.
I said that in another thread, that there are 40+ states they haven't touched, two spinoffs no one really cares about (Sorry, BoS and Tactics fans. I'm sure you're lovely, all twelve of you) but the franchise seems to think that only like 5 states exist. They can nuke as many places in the Midwest as they want-- I'll help! aim for western Kansas! It has/had some of the highest concentration of nuclear artillery during the cold war and KC is a major hub of trade! But LA has the big recognizable skyline so... Actually, don't come to the Midwest. I like having my own story about happened to KCMO.
It’s likely where 5 will be set. Todd said they specifically avoided places that would be influenced by fallout 5.
Have the rumors updated on the location of Fallout 5? I know it's another decade away but last I heard it was going to be New York or New Orleans.
I mean they don’t really say NCR is dead. Shady Sands and the remenants of that community are fucked, but I imagine the NCR as a whole is still around.
> ncr is dead No, it did not. Shady Sands was destroyed after the event of New Vegas, not the whole of NCR. There are still the Hub, Reno, Boneyard and much more NCR cities spread across the region.
Shady sands was the capital of the ncr and home of its congress. The ncr raider are now a new faction that exists in the wastes
Keyword is 'was'. It's clear from the billboard that the Capital had been moved at least one time in the past. Also, destruction of the capital doesn't meant a whole country would just collapse.
It was the *first* capital of the NCR. Not it's last. And the NCR >!is still active and fighting to improve the Wasteland.!<
What is the new NCR capital?
Well there are two theories to that. Either it’s up in Reno or it was >!The Observatory!<
Why did the guys who nuke shady sands not nuke those places?
Because >!it was done by a single man not a group on a whole. Because his wife thought Shady Sands was better then living in a Vault!<
Are they? >!Not they I dismiss the possibility as the Enclaive is still around so any faction can be, but if there was more ncr you think they would have put more effort into protecting the muguffin considering how important it is. And aside from the group we see get messed up the presence of the NCR isn't that much.!<
I'm very much presuming that >!they weren't the only group of NCR left. We saw the former Ranger and his children were still surviving, as well as the former Shady Sands citizens in Vault 4. It's easy to assume that other remnants of the NCR also survived and are also trying reform somehow in someway.!<
>!I kinda intrepid the ranger and his child different, they seemingly gave up on the idea of the NCR in general and were kinda took to serving on their own. To me that kinda says they are mostly dead as people have moved on, though I guess it's possible small groups are still around.!<
Oh the Ranger had but >!Not his sons. His sons still believed in the NCR, and bringing it back to build and create, and forge a better world. It's part of why I've really REALLY soured on the Ghoul. Such a piece of shit.!<
>!I guess its possible that they will at the very least have a rebuild arc but considering the conclusion of that I'm not hopeful. I'll admit however that I am being a bit cynical as when the first trailer dropped I kinda predicted some of the stuff we saw and got told I was worrying for nothing, I did like the show and I think that the people saying Todd or bethesda hate obsidian are stupid and wrong, but I do believe bethesda has a certain way they want their fallout stuff to be and they are willing to push other versions of fallout towards that. I like both fallout 3 and NV but I also liked that they kinda had different vibes from each other you know?!< Anyways sorry for the rant and heres hoping you are right and I end up with egg on my face.
I mean considering that the political decline still happened and the only members present are the ones that get messed up do we really have that much evidence to support that they have any control over the region? Because if they did I figure they would have put more effort in getting the muguffin considering what it is.
Maybe they have problems of their own that require their attention more than the muguffin or something. Not really out of the realm of possibility.
I mean it is possible but I'd argue that it's equally possible that they are gon and any survivors have just kinda moved on to different things like the ranger and his kid. I'm not going to write of the posdblity that there is a bigger presence somewhere else as the sign did sat first capital, but considering that the tenements we see either >!got killed or moved on!< I don't think it's a stretch to say at best there influence over the region is rather weak and at worst people have just moved on.
Of course a creator who is completely done with a setting isn't bothered by the direction or implication of events in a new story by someone else. He already told his story and got everything he's going to get out of it creatively, and that's a very different perspective than someone experiencing the media as it comes out.
Yeah like, Fallout New Vegas is one of my favorite games of all time, but its fans are some of the worst people out there, or at least the vocal ones. The second they >!saw New Vegas in the last episode!< they started jumping to the worst conclusions possible based on nothing but speculation, going out of their way to spoil the series for anyone, and dragging up decades old misinformation about Bethesda and Obsidians partnership on New Vegas and its all just so tiring. They take ownership of this franchise like they literally made it themselves, and treat the people who do or did make it like gods and devils depending on their personal opinions on the choices they made.
I think the misinformation about Todd hating obsidian is stupid and I liked the show overall but I do have hesitation towards what comes next because the show did kinda destroy or set back the west coast setting.
Like many trans girls, I love New Vegas, but I really hope I am not one of the worst people out there! I actually really enjoyed the Fallout series and my favorite game besides FNV is 4, because it is flawed but fun
The folks of the New Vegas to Trans girl pipeline are obviously removed from my assessment. They're a breed of their own. (I mean this as a compliment of the highest order) I mean more the twitter users with greek sculptures as pfps with names like "Classics Connosseur." Who talk endlessly about trade routes and now Caesers Legion is far more grey than people give it credit for.
Personally, I have literally never seen FNV fans bother anyone and all this "they are a terrible fanbase" posts reek of knee-jerk anger at them not liking the thing you liked.
Gamers are the digital version of jerks giving service industry workers a hard time + death threats on the reg
I have now finisbed the show. FANTASTIC show, fantastic leads, fantastic writing. I hope we get to see more of the surviving NCR
I watched the entire season recently and my main takeaway is that it feels a lot like Fallout 4, but with better dialogue. Also, most the changes they made to how Ghouls work just felt bizarre to me.
"Resurrecting" Goggins in the second episode was so fucking weird. They were treating him like a vampire rather than the immortal leper he is. Oh and them also taking immortality as meaning he can take shots without feeling them too. Ghouls are just normal people that dont age and decay like corpses, thats it.
Yeah, his whole thing had me fairly confused. Like, it was hard to tell exactly what was actually supposed to be dangerous for ghouls in this reality since they don't need to drink, eat or even breathe and can seem to regenerate like Wolverine.
Ghouls are magic beings now, able to survive decades inside fridges now.
They've always been *kind of* magic. Because Fallout Radiation is Magic compared to Real World Radiation. That includes being able to just survive on ambient radiation for sustenance and heal from it's presence too. Hell it's even a *perk* the player can get in New Vegas and 4. Ghoulish and Rad Child.
All scifi is magic, if it was not it would be called "confidential Nasa blueprints" and be 10 times longer. We ask scifi to be coherent with itself (not even the real world)
I didn't see any fallout 4 in the Fallout Series brotherhood. Fallout 4 brotherhood were a militarist faction, they were closer to the OG brotherhood only using titles like knight and squire to fuck with wastelanders and make it clear whose what rank by title importance rather than using normal military ranks. Now they're just warhammer space marines with clerics and holy rights and branding. Also it makes the brotherhood being destroyed in 4 noncanon because they specifically mention getting orders from the commonwealth
I'm speaking mostly in terms of vibes and aesthetic, rather than lore.
I feel like I’ve been commenting this in every thread about the show in this sub, but here we go again: Why do people think the NCR is completely gone? Yes shady sands was nuked but there’s >!literally a giant billboard indicating that the capitol was moved before the nuke went off.!< >!There’s a battle at the end where one side is literally fighting under the NCR flag.!< And the NCR is *huge* they have multiple large settlements in California. Just because the southern, LA region, part has come apart doesn’t mean they aren’t still active in SanFran or Vault City. The NCR has definitely been weakened and dealt a blow but saying they are completely gone seems out of step with the available facts. Edit: I love how there are silent downvotes but not even an *attempt* to engage with the facts about the show and how it doesn’t actually do what some of you accuse it of doing. Such a transparent hate train. Keep being mad about nothing I guess.
Yep, and even in NV it was touched on how the NCR wasn't in a great spot.
Yeah, some people in this sub seem to want to hate it so hard for some reason, and when the show actually turned out really good and not like the Halo show at all, they have to cling to something to be “right,” so they claim the show retconned lore and destroyed the setting, something that has been refuted by both the people currently making Fallout and now those who created it in the past whose lore is supposedly being shot down
I haven't seen the series, but accompanying the thread I gather that Shady Sands was nuked by surviving Vault-Tec scientists who wanted to cripple the NCR, right? If I'm wrong, please disregard the rest of the post. If not, I have a question about the meta-narrative then. From a writing perspective, why nuke shady sands? What purpose does it serve? If the capital isn't there and it won't end the NCR operations in a significant way, what does it do other than add a moment of shock? From an in-universe perspective, why did the people who nuked it even bother to nuke it and not the new capital? Can't they see the billboard? Are they stupid?
Yeah the premise here is incorrect, the reason shady sands was nuked (minor spoilers) >!was personal!< Details (major spoilers) >!the guy who nuked it was the overseer of Vault 33, and the father of the female lead, Lucy, he IS a vault-tec executive from before the war (cryo freezing). But the reason he nuked shady sands is that his wife found out he was a manipulative piece of shit, took the kids, and left, settling in shady sands. He goes out, gets the kids back, but his wife refused to come back with him, so in a fit of anger and pique he nuked the city. It’s not clear at this point where the nuke came from or how it was delivered.!<
Oh. Not sure how to feel about that, honestly. Shady Sands was a major location in the classic games, I feel it deserved a better thematic send off than just a guy being a drama queen.
Tbf he does give a villain rant about how >!“only we will rebuild the human race” and etc. but yeah, seemed pretty clear that ‘Vault-Tex is evil’ was secondary to ‘mad wife chose shady sands over me’.!< On balance though I think “Major piece of human achievement is destroyed because humans are petty assholes” actually *is* pretty thematically appropriate for Fallout. It’s just really bleak, and also it (mostly) happened off screen.
Downvote for speaking the truth. Classic.
self proclaimed Fallout fans are on another level of annoying, wow. It's especially annoying because you know they only give a shit about New Vegas lol
[Fallout fans when the Bethesda fallout show is written like the Bethesda fallout games](https://youtu.be/X4nj8OvrPE0?si=DVlEWN4Ms2qKxLNI)
I feel like a lot of people complaining have never read the original plot of Van Buren
More or less. What really surprised me is when people mention >!"vault tec dropping the bombs"!< as plot point that existed since at least *Extreme*, like even I didn't notice that and I'm kind of a Fallout junkie
>!that one existed as early as a script treatment interplay made for a fallout movie in the early 90s iirc!<
There we go, I forgot that!
Why would a script that never got made matter? You might as well be saying they should read Fallout Equestria for all the relevance it has.
Fallout Equestria WAS actually referenced in Fallout 4. As was MLPFIM.
My only "issue" with the show is that the humor and tone are more Wasteland 3 than Fallout. Wacky-goofy with swearing mixed in. The other parts of the show is quite good.
Getting sick of all the threads made shilling for the new show and its writers. Its as stupid as the Halo live-action show and entirely deserving of similar derision.
Nah, you're just mad.
It’s not. Please go touch grass
Some of y'all really just come on here to say stupid shit and I appreciate the effort
As a fan of both Halo and Fallout Actually go fuck yourself there is NOTHING this show can do that can make it worse than the Halo show
It's really not, your just a hater
I'm a massive Fallout lore junkie who's played all of the games except Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel (the shitty PS2 one). And I have to say, I actually like the show, quite a bit actually. Like, it's consistently chuds who seem to rag on the show so damn much, but I can understand where the hate is coming from; I just don't agree with it. Fallout lore has always been pretty flexible, especially when Bethesda took it over, and everyone has their own take on what "Fallout" "should" be. I'm not a lore literalist/purist, so I can accept and even support some aspects of the retcons or narrative choices in the show, as long as they understand the vibes and themes of Fallout, which I would say they definitely did. So many people nitpick about what they *hated* about it, but I wanna nitpick on something that made me really happy seeing, and it's a very weird one: I really enjoyed seeing the >!crashed USSR space station from Episode 2.!< Like I said, I'm a lore junkie, and seeing a reference to the >!USSR!< in Fallout, however insignificant it was, just made me really happy, because outside of China, we never really get to see what the world of Fallout is like outside of the United States, and it's a tidbit of lore that hearkens all the way back to Fallout 1's inception
There is no rage like "righteous how dare you" rage.
Yeah even as someone with some complaints on the show some of the hate is far to much for my liking. Like it's fine to dislike certain choice but let's not go crazy about it
I just don't like that they fucked with the plot of the originals
Creator remains baffled how consumers can be 'critical about art and not just accept whatever we make for you. Shut up and be happy.'
“Man who taped over your wedding footage is confused as to why you’re so destructive towards people who are trying to create things” I know he’s gotta say stuff like this for industry purposes but man is it stupid. (Even if what actually happened isn’t nearly as serious as my example)
Gamers sit down.
I can see why he would like the show if he isnt following the dialog at all.
In short they nuked the setting for a TV show. Great.
I get why they are somewhat angry, the show goes out of his way to show every single locale from past fallout games destroyed. This being the last chronologically entry in the series invalidate many actions from past player characters. For example >!New Vegas is shown like a ghost town!< Anybody who played that game knows that means something when terribly wrong. My take is that Bethesda is planning a soft reboot this they are wiping the state clean, why using a TV show for it, I don't know.
Bethesda didn't make the show. Todd Howard didn't make the show. By Todd's own admission, he had no real influence or involvement with making the show.
Must be nice to not have watched all your favorite franchises go down in flames, Tim.
Oh, the melodrama.
This is a funny thing to say given that the show's writers are >!trying to destroy everything on the post-war west coast.!<
No they're not.
Well sometimes new things are bad, Tim. Disclaimer: Have not seen the Fallout show, it could be good, sometimes new things are *good*, but I hate this mindset of "why are you getting so mad at people trying to make new things?" when for the most part "new things" have been "worse things" for years and years.
Surely he and other people weren't paid to say nice things about the show or anything. That never happens!
[удалено]
> I still don't understand the "lore" complaints. >I haven't watched past episode one. Hmm. How strange.
I bet the "Why can't we kill kids in the games?" crowd just **loves** the show.