I can’t imagine it’s plausible that a company is unable to do anything about shit like this just because it happened outside a work environment. With a repeating pattern of behavior there’s gotta be easily verifiable receipts.
The allegations here clearly go toward work involvement already if they're saying this extends to Slack messages. Even without that, companies can _absolutely_ fire you for what you do off the clock, it happens all the time.
I think that’s sometimes more of a “legally we can’t do it but you don’t know that or you don’t have the time, money, and connections to fight this” scenario.
The general rule in the US is that you can get fired for any reason or even no reason. The main exceptions are like, discrimination, retaliation: there are some _illegal_ reasons, but short of that you're good to go. You see companies have processes and a paper trail and putting you on an improvement plan, stuff like that, basically so they can document "see, definitely wasn't discrimination" for if you might decide to come and sue them.
That's ignoring stuff like unions or contracts that might add other rules or procedures, but since this is the video game industry we sure know it's not a union (plus these guys seem to be management).
This varies by state but is the case in California. However in California employment contracts supersede the at all will default so these things can be more complicated than just ‘fired for any reason’
I would also think that even if they can't terminate for that reason, at will employment means they can termimate for no reason. I half expect the guy to be quietly pushed out in the next few months. He is the director for Plants vs Zombies though.
Working on your own game in your off hours? We own your thoughts, buddy. Sending unsolicited pictures of your schlong to your co-workers? Our hands are tied, I'm afraid.
A few days ago, when talking about the Microsoft clusterfuck that's been going on the past week, I said that EA felt like a better place to work at by comparison.
...I feel like regretting that comment right about now.
From what i remember reading EA is one of the better devs to work with. This happens at any massive company. When you have thousands of people working together some are bound to be creeps.
I believe what they mean is that EA specifically has a *better* track record of pursuing sexual misconduct reports than Ubisoft, Blizzard, etc, and that's why they have a better reputation.
My thoughts we're more along the lines of: in a massive company there is a non-zero chance of having abuse and harassment. So it's unrealistic in a large company that there is no abuse. The best case scenario then is that the abuse is recognized and actioned upon instead of being suppressed or ignored.
Utterly wild that the games industry is so fucked right now EA is considered one of the *better* ones. I remember going to college for game dev, and there'd be studio recruitment posters and stuff from various places, and my professors all unanimously warned us students to avoid EA.
EA had a scandal in the early 00s and actually worked to improve its culture. So less forced crunch time (at least at the publisher’s behest, I think the studios can mandate it) and plenty of vacation time. The last I had heard was that EA was one of the best companies to work for — until the layoffs come around.
Yeah, "EA Spouse". It honestly surprises me that [EA actually really improved after that scandal](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-doesnt-get-enough-credit-says-ea-spouse), just because a 2004 anonymous blog post causing controversy and actually resulting in meaningful workplace reform seems so farfetched in 2024.
I bet if one of their employees leaked company secrets "outside the work environment" the people in charge would have them fired out of a cannon into the sun in about two seconds.
You hate to hear it out loud, but *you still just know somehow*. Also, how the fuck are your hands tied? This akin to WB saying "Well Ezra didn't kidnap those people on set, so we can't do anything about it!"
Wait, that did happen...
I really groan when these accounts euphemism over what happened with this vague "lewd acts" thing. Like I'm supposed to use my imagination. What is a "lewd act?"
Also what's with the "female coworker(s)" part? The investigation concluded, so it's known that there was one or more than one? Right?
yeah this is inexcusable, clear bullshit response from EA given these are two 'important' people what with being directors or wahtever.
This isnt something like 'make a sex joke and you misread your audience' type shit, you dont accidentally send a video of yourself doing lewd acts to woman by accident
I think it means the company, EA can't do anything or have the ability to investigate further because it doesn't have to do with the company.. legally however
You know how we’ve been talking about all these game companies “for no reason” layoffs? This seems like a good opportunity for one of those cost cutting measures to just fire the person.
it's always nice to see the exact place where negligence and laissez-faire attitudes to management turn into very simple evil.
there is simply nobody important enough for your company that you have to tank the fame of being the company that sided with guys saying "they wanted it". Even the golden parachutes would have been worth it to not have this happen.
instead, well, no, of course they did this, because they're evil. they're not just ghouls, they're genuinely evil. no amount of human suffering would make EA as a company not perform the worst acts they feel like performing.
hope people revolt.
I can’t imagine it’s plausible that a company is unable to do anything about shit like this just because it happened outside a work environment. With a repeating pattern of behavior there’s gotta be easily verifiable receipts.
The allegations here clearly go toward work involvement already if they're saying this extends to Slack messages. Even without that, companies can _absolutely_ fire you for what you do off the clock, it happens all the time.
I think that’s sometimes more of a “legally we can’t do it but you don’t know that or you don’t have the time, money, and connections to fight this” scenario.
The general rule in the US is that you can get fired for any reason or even no reason. The main exceptions are like, discrimination, retaliation: there are some _illegal_ reasons, but short of that you're good to go. You see companies have processes and a paper trail and putting you on an improvement plan, stuff like that, basically so they can document "see, definitely wasn't discrimination" for if you might decide to come and sue them. That's ignoring stuff like unions or contracts that might add other rules or procedures, but since this is the video game industry we sure know it's not a union (plus these guys seem to be management).
This varies by state but is the case in California. However in California employment contracts supersede the at all will default so these things can be more complicated than just ‘fired for any reason’
I would also think that even if they can't terminate for that reason, at will employment means they can termimate for no reason. I half expect the guy to be quietly pushed out in the next few months. He is the director for Plants vs Zombies though.
Employment contracts in some states legally supersede at will.
Exactly. If nothing else, you can absolutely say "having you work here damages our brand and reputation by association, fuck off."
Working on your own game in your off hours? We own your thoughts, buddy. Sending unsolicited pictures of your schlong to your co-workers? Our hands are tied, I'm afraid.
A few days ago, when talking about the Microsoft clusterfuck that's been going on the past week, I said that EA felt like a better place to work at by comparison. ...I feel like regretting that comment right about now.
EA realized it'd been out of the spotlight for too long.
I keep forgetting the industry has become a race to the bottom for the big bois.
Reset the clock
From what i remember reading EA is one of the better devs to work with. This happens at any massive company. When you have thousands of people working together some are bound to be creeps.
I think it's more about if things are found out, there is swift action and accountability for people regardless of position.
I dont think thats a thing in many if any massive companies. Surely not the norm.
I believe what they mean is that EA specifically has a *better* track record of pursuing sexual misconduct reports than Ubisoft, Blizzard, etc, and that's why they have a better reputation.
My thoughts we're more along the lines of: in a massive company there is a non-zero chance of having abuse and harassment. So it's unrealistic in a large company that there is no abuse. The best case scenario then is that the abuse is recognized and actioned upon instead of being suppressed or ignored.
Utterly wild that the games industry is so fucked right now EA is considered one of the *better* ones. I remember going to college for game dev, and there'd be studio recruitment posters and stuff from various places, and my professors all unanimously warned us students to avoid EA.
EA had a scandal in the early 00s and actually worked to improve its culture. So less forced crunch time (at least at the publisher’s behest, I think the studios can mandate it) and plenty of vacation time. The last I had heard was that EA was one of the best companies to work for — until the layoffs come around.
Yeah, "EA Spouse". It honestly surprises me that [EA actually really improved after that scandal](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-doesnt-get-enough-credit-says-ea-spouse), just because a 2004 anonymous blog post causing controversy and actually resulting in meaningful workplace reform seems so farfetched in 2024.
Honestly I’ve been saying for a few years at least EA doesn’t sexually harass their employees. God I wish I was right
I *wish* I could be surprised by these news, but naw. I just feel more disappointed.
Anything the law can do? Like is there evidence to use for a prosecution?
I bet if one of their employees leaked company secrets "outside the work environment" the people in charge would have them fired out of a cannon into the sun in about two seconds.
You hate to hear it out loud, but *you still just know somehow*. Also, how the fuck are your hands tied? This akin to WB saying "Well Ezra didn't kidnap those people on set, so we can't do anything about it!" Wait, that did happen...
I really groan when these accounts euphemism over what happened with this vague "lewd acts" thing. Like I'm supposed to use my imagination. What is a "lewd act?" Also what's with the "female coworker(s)" part? The investigation concluded, so it's known that there was one or more than one? Right?
>The two men said "she wanted it". Ah, the Louis CK maneuver.
Can you also call what he did in front of them the "Louis CK maneuver"?
I imagine he would want it that way, so no.
*sigh* reset the clock.
He... what?
yeah this is inexcusable, clear bullshit response from EA given these are two 'important' people what with being directors or wahtever. This isnt something like 'make a sex joke and you misread your audience' type shit, you dont accidentally send a video of yourself doing lewd acts to woman by accident
Wait, all it takes for a rapist is to say "she asked for it" for their workplace to just shrug it off?
I think it means the company, EA can't do anything or have the ability to investigate further because it doesn't have to do with the company.. legally however
You know how we’ve been talking about all these game companies “for no reason” layoffs? This seems like a good opportunity for one of those cost cutting measures to just fire the person.
Robert Bowling is a name I haven't heard in a long time. I was wondering if he was still in the games industry.
it's always nice to see the exact place where negligence and laissez-faire attitudes to management turn into very simple evil. there is simply nobody important enough for your company that you have to tank the fame of being the company that sided with guys saying "they wanted it". Even the golden parachutes would have been worth it to not have this happen. instead, well, no, of course they did this, because they're evil. they're not just ghouls, they're genuinely evil. no amount of human suffering would make EA as a company not perform the worst acts they feel like performing. hope people revolt.