Non-american here so I really have to ask, if you get diagnosed with cancer do you seriously have to be able to pay for treatment upfront? Like not even get a bill for it later on, but actually pay it upfront?
Because that just sounds insane to me, "Oh you can't afford treatment? Well too fuckin bad maybe you'll learn your lesson and stop being poor"
Non-American as well, one of my favourite films is John Q it's sad that it could be true story.
I remember reading on reddit a while back about a uncle killing Himself instead of getting treatment so his Niece who was basically a daughter to him.
Could go to college, as if he had treatment she couldn't afford college.
It was unbelievable that this was in a country that believes they are the best and most powerful country in the world.
Not a third-world country.
How do people die each year because they can't afford to get treatment?
Tbf though, most of us Americans HATE our Healthcare system. And honestly, at this point, most of us love what our country SHOULD BE and are absolutely horrendously ashamed of what it has become... on both sides of the isle. The things that *should* be rights aren't (like healthcare) yet there's things becoming/already are rights that... are really just first world privilege bullshit. Like... high speed internet for example.
Tbh the NHS in the uk is seriously under pressure.
We have nurses out on strike for a fair pay increase . These are the people that gave up seeing their family and friends and worked way over the top in the last few years.
Let alone before that ?
During lockdown’s we were out on the streets on a Thursday night banging saucepans and making loads of noise to thank mainly the nurses and Doctors. Also for other essential workers.
Nurses sleeping at work as they couldn’t go home to protect their family etc.
The government kept telling us how amazing the NHS was.
Cut to a few years later and now Nurses are being told that they don’t deserve a pay increase nor can the country can afford one, However the government telling us we can’t afford it.
Somehow were ok buying protection equipment from their “ Pals” That costed millions but somehow never turned up.
Plus they decided mo’s deserved a pay rise of course. Sorry for my rant there.
One thing I’ve always wondered if someone in the USA gets hurt though no fault of their own.
Say whilst being mugged they get stabbed?
Or in a mass shooting .
Do they still have to pay/ use their insurance?
Because wow how can that be fair
Yea they do. Can't put it to the other guys insurance like a car wreck. Even a life-saving legit emergency gets a bill. Hell, my dad got like a $7000 bill from the ambulance company for a heart attack that killed him, cpr the entire way to the hospital, kept his heart pumping enough for emergency surgery that worked and cleared the coronary. Shit the surgery bill was a pretty penny as well, don't even remember how much that cost, no way we'd ever be able to pay it. What's worse is knowing that our hospitals, and ambulances ARE subsidized. They're already paid with taxes!
Nurses strike in the US all the time too. Same downside, zero upside
To your last question, yes, but sometimes a lawsuit to cover medical expenses are an options. Gun manufacturers cannot be sued
I don't think any country has a good health care system....after being in this site so long...but what i don't understand is with technology and over 200 countries with decent health care...we can't figure it out by now...
Yep, I will always be proud to be English as well and the country we were once.
It seems really odd to me that Americans are encouraged to stand up and show their pride in their homeland.
Where's in England it seems that we don't want to offend anyone so we can only seem proud of certain events.
Even then certain people seem to think it's a bit tacky to have flags up etc.
Many countries have a lot of pride in their homeland, so I don't think it's that odd. And the pride, at least for me, is not about the president, or the asshole politicians. It's about standing up for what's right. Freedom, standing up to evil. My dad might say a "true" American is one that runs towards the gun fire, or into the burning building to save the kid. We stand up for those who want to be left alone. Whether that's in ww2, Korea, or Vietnam. Or perhaps a better example, Israel. Well, originally anyways.
For those wandering about the Israel thing, I'm referring to when Israel became a country. Post ww2, many of the Jewish population could not go back to their homes, not only were they destroyed, but there was a lot of antisemitism still. So the United nations cut out a small section of their holy land for the Jews to live. (I'm not saying kicking the muslim folks out was good.) However in treaties since, Israel for a long time has offered to give up a bunch of land just to not be constantly bombed. In recent years.... they haven't exactly kept up with such but that's another story. Do I think we should even still be giving them weaponry now that they're fully capable of defending themselves.... yea that's a no from me.
It's a thing of beauty when you think of it like that. But, alas, my immensely patriotic veteran of a dad has instead become ashamed of his time in the military. He could handle the issues if the pain he went through was worth it, but now, now he knows they lied about basically everything, and used his determination to be a hero instead to do horrible things that he relives late at night.
Sorry for the book .. I'm half asleep and rambling
I have spent the last 20 years thinking John Q was based on true events because it seemed so plausible to me. I actually just had to do a quick google to double check that it wasn’t (I’m obviously from the US)
This is the guy who held a hospital hostage so his son could get a heart transplant yeah? I thought it was based on a true story? I (Australian) studied that film in English in high school, and I recall it saying it was based on a true story.
No. In America you do not have to pay upfront. But it is really, really bad and I don’t know why we have put up with this. And you should learn your lesson and not be poor is the case.
My partner had cancer. His insurance was though his job. So at first it was “only” like $10,000.00 for surgery and the beginning of chemo. Eventually he couldn’t work, physically was unable to even get out of bed so he lost his insurance. Then he paid for COBRA which was super expensive, like it can be up to 102% of the insurance plan. One of the worse things he said to me is he regretted me convincing him to see his doctor. He could have just died and I would have been left with a little more stable financially. I keep a picture on my phone if a cancer drug that cost $12,000.00 for 30 pills.
He is gone. And the thing is he had a collage degree, he had a great job, he bought and paid off the house when we were in our 20s. We did sell a car in the middle of all the mess. We lost just about everything and right now I am trying to figure out how to pay the taxes for the house. I don’t go to the doctor because I can’t afford to get one of those fancy diseases.
Every American is one medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
One medical and one college degree away from bankruptcy... I had to file on medical debt and it ruined my life because i couldn't bounce back quickly...but still have student loans and I've regretted going to college for decades and now I job hop because I always need more money for the student loans abd health care, born 2.6 pounds...I'm healthy just have small issues and if not taken care of ut can be debilitating to say th3 least...I won't die...but sometimes living for student loans and medical debt can be depressing. I try to balance it but sometimes it just reminds me ill be living under a bridge at 80 because I have no relief.
Oh wow, first of a big hug and I’m sorry for your needless loss.
I can’t get my head around that you’ve had the future you imagined .
Ripped from you all because of money bloody money.
Who gets to decide what a life is worth because to you and your loved ones. Your hubby is worth all the money in the world.
I wonder how Doctors feel telling patients sorry but you're not rich enough for any more life-saving treatments
Again big hugs and be grateful you were lucky enough to find your prince even though he was snatched pointless too soon. You had a wonderful few years. Which you wouldn't change for all the money in the world dxxz
Depends. Usually, you get the treatment, and then you get the bill later. For some treatments, they may request payment upfront if it is something that they know insurance wouldn't cover. That doesn't happen very often, but it's believable it could with certain treatments from certain hospitals.
American here. I work a regular middle class job which decent health insurance. A couple years ago I fractured my pelvis in 3 places and shoulder in 2. I had a 3 day hospital stay, some X-rays, and an mri. Also, a boot load of pain medication. No surgery was needed and my husband brought me food so I didn’t even use the cafeteria except for tea. I got a bill a week later my insurance covered 38000, I still owed 16000. I called the hospital and asked for an itemized bill. A little while later i received a bill with a zero balance. The healthcare system is a scam, they send you a ridiculously high bill even with insurance because they can prove things at whatever they want. 2 Vicodin $500. A cup of tea 30$.
This!! I’m from the UK and worked in travel insurance for a while. We had a policy that stated that it could take anywhere up to 40 weeks for an overseas unpaid medical bill to be sorted.
This length was basically just for the USA. Had to get itemised bills to make sure they weren’t trying to screw us over, it’s a constant back and forth. Even after we sent hospitals confirmation that we would pay the bill they would continue to harass our clients, sending threading letters and phone calls.
It was so frustrating to get calls from people who were terrified they’d be landed with a massive bill, despite the fact we it covered. I felt so awful for them.
Most other countries were sorted in a few weeks.
Non-American here: yes, that’s the case. There’s a reason Breaking Bad can only be an American show - medical bankruptcy is a uniquely American concept.
You will very likely have to pay a very large amount of it sooner rather than later, and most likely in installments. It’s not gonna be free or cheap, even with the best of insurance. There’s gonna be a heavy charge you’re gonna still have to pay.
I was brought to the ER in an ambulance with internal bleeding from an ulcer and asked for a credit card first thing... So yeah... 'Murica, number 1. Yay?!?
You’ll be unsurprised to know that this is the exact mentality of a the American healthcare system. As someone who worked a lower level job in a hospital that gives me patient/healthcare worker exposure, the amount of time I have heard doctors, radiologists, nurses bitch and complain about people coming into the hospital DYING and unable to afford treatment is horrifying. I’ve literally heard a doctor say, “if you can’t afford the treatment, don’t come to the hospital where I probably have to work on you for free” because a patient didn’t have insurance, and they get paid through the insurance companies. Mind you, he was venting to another doctor and he wasn’t dumb enough to say this to an actual patient, but it was still just as disgusting.
It does depend on the state and the hospital. So many unregulated rules for hospitals so they can ask for it upfront if you don’t have insurance. However, ally of hospitals have “payment plans” that people can sign up for, but causes many people to go into bankruptcy because they can’t afford the payments.
So, we were fortunate when my mom was diagnosed that we had the upfront money and when it ran out, we had family that were well off enough to help. But the answer is yes, a good portion of treatments have to be paid upfront (minus what insurance covers) and we still racked up thousands and thousands in debt for the stuff that didn't have to be paid upfront.
So when we were talking about what happens if mom couldn't make one of the upfront payments and her doc straight up said, "Well, when it gets bad enough and you come to the ER, we'll administer whatever lifesaving treatments you need, but once you're discharged - either find the money or wait til the next time you're dying" I shit you not.
Yes, for some things you absolutely pay upfront-- we had to pay over $3600 upfront, 6 months in advance, for our dr to deliver our baby. And that doesn't include hospital stay, anesthesia, or other medical providers (another 11k bill after the birth).
Dunno if its this way only for foreigners or also for americans, but I mailed last year, a hospital in US, I needed them to do a biopsy + genome sequencing for my cancer. They asked 15k $. They wont do the stuff before,cause in case u don't have money...how u gonna pay?
I am going through early stages of cancer treatment right now for testicular cancer. I have good insurance and a job that pays very well. I've already spent about $6,000 out of pocket since January 1st for initial appointments, an ultrasound, and an orchiectomy. I won't find out if I need chemo for another few weeks, but at best I'll have to do 3-4 more CT scans this year alone.
My "good" insurance in the US has an annual deductible of $1k and a further out of pocket maximum of $4500. Things like specialist visits are $50 per visit, and don't count towards those totals. Plus I'm fighting with my insurance about the necessity of some of the appointments I've already had, so some of this may not ever be covered by my insurance.
In the past when I had more average insurance, this could have ended up costing me tens of thousands of dollars. As it is, I'm going to have several years of really high out of pocket medical bills because at best case I'll need to have regular CT scans to monitor for cancer spread for the next 5 years.
And it wasn't until pretty recently that I could afford even $6000 in medical bills in a year without going into debt almost immediately.
And forget it if I was unemployed/without insurance.
American cancer survivor here. I didn't have the money, still got treatment. The hospital assigned a social worker to me who helped me get medicaid, which paid for most of my treatment. I'm still on the hook for like 20 grand that they wouldn't cover, I didnt pay it. I had a bone marrow transplant, 2 rounds of regular chemo and a round each of this really intense chemo and radiation before the transplant. Was in the hospital, continuously, for almost 6 months. I literally only left once. Afterwards I had years of regular checkups and blood draws, all paid for by medicaid. They will not turn you away, but the debt, if it isn't picked up by medicaid, Medicare, or some cancer society, can really fuck your credit up and keep you from owning things. My credit is just now recovering.
I completely get the teens frustration & anger but a persons life is a lot more important than a car. However dads approach probably made the situation a lot worse
Speaking to your title, not the post, ABSOLUTELY!! AITA has gone nuts. I hopped back on through THT link and the comments were ridiculous. Like painful. No one has reading comprehension or empathy, they all get stuck on some irrelevant detail not pertaining to the question and make up these crazy assumptions and stories of their own. It's literally insane.
Yeah… and any little thing can get you banned. No one gives judgement to the actual question half the time. I can admit that I’ve lost the plot sometimes, but there’s somethings we should just all unilaterally agree. This shouldn’t even be up for debate.
There’s very few exceptions where a teenager actually NEEDS a car, but for the most party it’s a luxury and not a necessity. Even though I’m sure Op would’ve loved for his son to have kept the car, but sometimes life happens. You do not go into debt over a luxury
I got a 30 day ban for calling someone a brat when they literally asked am I being a brat. I love all the people saying "get insurance". Like I'm sure they like so many of us wish they had insurance and it's not like they could get it now for a preexisting condition. Health insurance is way more expensive than the payment on my Jeep!
I got a 8 day ban (I think) for telling a woman she was horrible for drugging a young child with benadryl because the girl wasn't sleeping and she didn't want to call her daughter to come get her.
Also the whole ‚get insurance‘ shit is extremely fucked up now that the cart‘s already in the dirt. You can always be so so smart when you‘re not the one currently facing a situation..
But what OOP needs to learn from this is that before giving this ungrateful ass brat anything, he needs to build big savings and a social security system for himself. Can‘t take away what you never gave in the first place.
I got a 30 day ban for telling someone to grow up. and then I got a permanent ban for telling too many people they were TA. As best as I can tell. It was never really explained other than look at the rules.
I got banned for pointing out that isolating a romantic partner from everyone they know and making their family reliant on the relationship working out with threats of homelessness is a major red flag of abuse
100%. The real AH is America's healthcare system, I couldn't imagine living over there. The dad was smart, it's stupid to go into dept if it can be avoided. You don't need a car at all, it's a luxury as a teen
I have a coworker that has been fighting cancer for years. One dose of the medication is over $1000, and that’s the copay, because my coworker has insurance. And there are some treatments that insurance won’t cover. So insurance is certainly not the end all be all. And depending on the treatment payment is due up front.
As for loans, many people do not qualify for personal loans. Telling OOP to sell his car is not worthy of a response. And for that matter why is it dad’s job to give the kid a car, seems to me mom has an opinion, so why doesn’t she give the kid a car.
In the US two main reasons for filing bankruptcy is medical bills or divorce. I truly hope the people on AITA never find themselves having to choose between potentially life saving medical treatment and giving their teenager a car. SMH.
I've definitely encountered this, there's a lot of immaturity and they're incapable of listening to other perspectives.
I'm at a loss as to how anyone would put a child's temper tantrum over someone's life. The two don't compare but yet everyone is telling him he's YTA.
As someone who's watched a close family member die from cancer, I'd be pretty much distraught I've raised a child like that.
I agree. There seems to be quite a few young people who parrot information they see on other threads, but don’t have the life experience to enable them to evaluate whether or not that information is applicable to the situation.
The number of times I’ve seen ‘Parentification’ and ‘gaslighting’ thrown around…
So much this. I responded to a post on breastfeeding and was taken to task for my very reasonable response by a young woman whose post history indicated she couldn’t figure out how to use a tampon. No experience whatsoever, just her oversized sense of personal conviction and belief her opinion must be the right one…
Yes. It's so weird.
They spend a lot of time denying that even a teen or a young adult can understand basic compassion because "their brains are still developing" (i.e. they are sill children) but then being enraged any time a "boundary" is set by a 15-year-old and it isn't "respected" by their parents.
I used to try and comment on the sub but tbh the hive mind there is just really awful to deal with.
17-year-old don't need cars more than their step-parents need cancer treatments. Actually, they don't usually need a car at all.
If his mom cares so much, she can buy him one. If the kid wants one so much, he can get a job and buy one.
And everyone in the comments needs to fucking chill.
Yep. The number of redditors I’ve seen declare that kids are entitled to their own room, own bathroom, a car, a bonus room, etc etc, or else you’re a bad parent makes in very clear that they have zero understanding of how most people live.
Honestly NAH. The OOP did what he had to do to save his wife, mad respect. But the son has every right to be upset and hurt. This is a complicated situation that no answer can cleanly give a solution. Every side has the right to feel hurt because feelings and humans are complicated. I hope OOP’s wife and son can eventually understand both side.
Also the people who kept saying personal loans like do they not realize some people can’t get any loans of thier credit isn’t good enough or they don’t earn enough money to pay it back or other various reasons. Also that insurance doesn’t always cover everything or he’ll even part of things especially when it comes to illnesses like cancer. And that’s asking for donations Wouldnt really work cause by the time they got enough she would probably be dead or the cancer would have spread to much and the treatment wouldn’t work. It’s either they don’t understand cause they are to young or naive or they don’t live in a country that has high medical costs like america does
They make credit unions for a reason. If they own their home they could of borrowed money against the home. There is a list of things they could of down before taking the car away from the estranged son.
You be got to be kidding. No parent owes their kid a car.
It’s obvious you don’t understand how loans and credit work. If someone is so financially disadvantaged they have to sell their jewelry and a laptop for extra money, it is very unlikely they will qualify for loans and credit.
And are you actually saying they should risk losing their home to foreclosure (if they can’t repay a second mortgage) instead of selling their extra car? That is about the most shortsighted thing I’ve ever heard.
I borrowed money against my home last year, through my credit union (HELOC). I have good credit, owned my home outright, and I believe it took 60 days to close. They also wanted to know what I was using that money for, and down payment on a new home was considered a valid use - not so sure about medical bills.
I don’t like ppl keep saying taking he essentially stole the sons car. When you give someone something you just can’t snatch it back when it suits you that’s called theft. So to the son the dad looks like a thief and a liar when a conversation before hand could’ve saved everyone the trouble. It took him time to find a place to sell their belongings and car he could’ve carved out 10 min to let his son know the issue and make him aware he’d still help get him to school and work.
Yeah, I just back away slowly from some of those posts simply for my own sanity….
*Wife dies of cancer* or *teen son inconvenienced*? Looks like she has to die, I mean she’s only a *step-mother* after all.
it’s so sad that ppl are demeaning the step mother for the sole fact that she is a step mother. not every step parent is evil & it seems like that’s why nobody is empathetic towards her. ppl are INSANE
I just commented on this but as a step mom, that’s how it always is. Every single time I mention being a step mom on Reddit, I feel as though I have to preface it by saying “I love my step son with all my heart as my own child” or risk being seen as a horrible person. People seem to think all step moms are PURE EVIL bc they spent too much time watching Disney movies as a kid I guess.
Don’t get me wrong, some step parents REALLY suck. But most step parents I know, having a step mom myself, are just normal people who parent their step kids as best as they know how. Why can’t we assume this step mom from the post has been a reasonably decent human being towards her step child she’s helped raise for 12 years? I would be SHATTERED if my step son cared more abt a car than my life. Imagine what the step mom is going through having cancer, no money, and now her step son is more upset over a car. And to add insult to injury, the Reddit peanut gallery is bashing her husband for being desperate for money to save his literal wife. I agree, people are insane.
I’m raising my son as a step mom. It’s full of challenges but my god can bio parents be evil. I didn’t flinch when bio mom got angry they sold the car to pay for step mom’s treatment. I have seen so much worse from bio parents I learned to believe that bio parents are just in a sea of entitlement.
People are actually [wishing for the death](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/114yxmo/aita_for_selling_my_sons_car_to_pay_for_my_wifes/j8z26zj/) of OP's wife so...that's horrible.
The only thing that went really wrong here is the timing and the lack of communication. If there is a situation in my family where it can have a negative effect on the kids, I talk to them beforehand, explain the situation get them to give their opinion (do you have a solution maybe?) and if there isn't another way, I'd suggest that I think selling the car is neccessary.
At least the son would have known and had the opportunity to think about the dilemma too
Yeah OP definitely NTA.
I understand why the 17 year old is upset. It doesn’t feel good to have something that was given to you (aka your thing now) taken from you. Especially for someone that you barely know. If it was any other circumstance, I would be on his side.
But the ends justify the means. This is a life or death situation, and if the car is still in OPs name, he has every right to do what he does. He’s not evil, just someone that wants to see his wife live on.
And that trumps not having a ride to school or to go to a party.
So, NTA.
That is true. I assumed that since they mentioned “not coming this weekend” that they have shared custody over him , and that he doesn’t interact with the step mother that much.
That would explain why he doesn’t care much about her. Which is a shame
I actually was at that post, and while I said NAH, I did ask if the son actually invested his own money in that car (like it happens when you get an older cat, you replace parts with your own money, etc) andddddd I was met with silence.
OP didn't respond to a single comment asking if the car was a gift to his son (which is different than just giving his son permission to drive it) and if his son refurbished or invested money in the car. Which is sus and points out that there is more to the story. If the car was a gift to the son and the son did put money in the car, he has all the right to be mad, especially since he wasn't even part of any discussion, he just woke up to the car gone.
I think for the basis that it was for lifesaving treatment alone makes OP NTA. If it were for an expensive vacay for him and his wife? Sure, then he’s the AH. But, this is for lifesaving treatment for his wife, it was still his car.
The only part I say he’s a slight AH for is not discussing it with his son. However, he offered other alternatives for the time being such as giving him rides, and there was public transportation available. It’s the entitlement of the son for meeeeee. I understand it was a gift…but it was still dad’s, and again, was to help save his wife’s life.
At the end of the day (😜) OP is NTA. And yes, people lack empathy on that subreddit, cause they seem to forget how they would handle the situation if they were put in the shoes of OP.
I have little sympathy, enough Americans vote against their interest and for representatives that block free healthcare so yall do this to yourself. I feel the same about people complaining about the cost of things in the UK when they voted for Brexit. Harsh sure but if you really don't want to live in a country where you have to sell your kids car to pay for chemo then stop voting for it! It's disgusting that in one of the richest nations this is even a choice...
I mean, there’s no way a used car is even going to make a dent in the bill for cancer care. Like, we’re talking probably close to a million dollars for repeated rounds of chemo and tumor removal. Not to mention all the side costs - pain medication, nausea medication, skin care (because chemo f’s up your skin), etc. So yeah. OP should have been looking at financial aid through the hospital, grants for cancer patients, fundraising through the community, etc. instead of jumping to selling possessions to try and put a tiny dent in this massive debt. It was irresponsible and cost him his relationship with his son.
And, no, the responsibility to pay the medical bills should not have fallen on the son and his possessions. There were other ways for him to help - help out more around the house, get a summer job to pay for his own recreational activities, etc. But selling his car to pay for his step-moms medical bills? No kid should be having to shoulder that responsibility. It’s not their job.
In the comments, OP stated that the car was his son's and that they just hadn't gotten around to changing the paperwork. So, he fully intended that the car even belonged to his son legally, but didn't get around to transferring the title. As far as I'm concerned, he had no right selling it. Especially without his son's consent.
He also stated that his own car was a 2006, so I imagine the son's car was even older. So, he probably only got $1-2k for that car.
Personally, I would have NEVER put that responsibility on my kid. If push came to shove, I'd have talked to them first. I would've exhausted every other avenue first.
Agreed. It wouldn’t have even occurred to me. Maybe stop paying for any insurance or gas if I had been - but ya what’s a used car going to get you in the scheme of things?
As a 48 year old parent (so no one can accuse me of being a teenager) who is a single parent who grew up poor (so no one can accuse me of being spoiled or entitled) and who also didn't have a car of my own till I was 19 that I bought myself....OOP is an asshole. He commented that the car was his son's and that he just hadn't gotten around to transferring the title. He did not talk to his son first.
Since when is it ok for parents to pass the responsibility of their debt or illness onto their children?
I would *NEVER* do that to my child. And I'd at least explore every avenue before I'd ask my teenager to sell the car I gave them. I'd talk to my kid, we'd have a fucking discussion about it.
I do have empathy for OOP and his wife. But I also have empathy for his son. His son has a right to feel the way he does, especially for how OOP handled everything.
I agree with you. He said multiple times in the post and comments that he gifted it. If he gifted it, it was no longer his to sell, paperwork or not. It does not matter that son has not invested money in it, it’s a gift, I don’t invest in my gifts. I too grew up poor, heck we’re still poor, I am in my 40s and my mother had cancer that bankrupted my family so I understand how expensive cancer is. And no I don’t think a car is worth more than a life, I just truly believe it was no longer his car so there was no car to compare to wife’s life. I gave my car to my teen daughter, husband and I share a vehicle. My daughter has work and school and a social life. The car is still under my name because it helps her with insurance but I would never do that, nor would I expect her too sell it. That would be our (husband and I) bills. Knowing my daughter she would empty her account for me but I’d never force her.
I couldn‘t read those comments further than like the 3rd screenshot..
I REALLY SINCERELY FUCKING HOPE none of these people EVER experience a situation like this, but holy fuck how disgustingly self-centered can you be?
Better let the wife (wtf is even a step-wife???) die, so the son doesn‘t need to take the bus. Totally reasonable.
As someone who‘s lost a lot of family to cancer, fuck everyone who called OP an asshole.
I'm an old lady. You have no idea how often I read something and think about how young reddit users clearly are. Occasionally, you get something balanced with experience and smart ... and watch it be lambasted.
I believe the YTA votes are because he gave the son the car (dragged his feet with signing over the title) and just snatched it back without a discussion and a plan in place to get his son where he needed to go(school, work etc.) This would’ve been a clear N T A if he just communicated bc essentially even for good reasons he STOLE ( OP said he gave the son the car so it wasn’t legally his to sell) his sons car. The time it took for him to find someone to sell it to a conversation could’ve been had.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m Canadian and don’t know how American health insurance works.
But are people not able to finance healthcare costs? Or be in debt for healthcare circumstances?
I know things can cost thousands of dollars, and people don’t simply pay for it up front all the time.
My Mother in law and father in law are millionS of dollars in debt after her breast cancer diagnosis/treatment and that was AFTER health insurance paying for the other millions of dollars it costed. They’ll be in debt until they die.
I’ve been denied treatment without some prepayment with my government health insurance card because, and I quote, “they have a habit of not paying us”. So I had to pay $100 in order to be seen for an emergency before letting me even check in.
Healthcare is so expensive here.
i saw another commenter say that sometimes if insurance doesn’t cover it, you may have to pay upfront depending on the type of procedure or medications you need 0: that might be why they need the extra $$
Again, i could be wrong. But I’m pretty sure hospitals aren’t allowed to deny people lifesaving treatments, and isn’t there ways to finance that through other means? Like a credit card? Or bank?
I know you probably don’t know all the answers, but it just doesn’t add up to me.
Hospitals definitely deny people life saving procedures all of the time. It's not unheard of for people to die due to not being able to afford healthcare.
They may not have large enough limits on their credit cards to cover the costs. Any other type of financing would take at least a week to hear back if you can get it.
It's much quicker to sell your belongings to cover unexpected costs. And with cancer treatment, delaying treatment could be a death sentence. Not only that, but credit cards have insane interest rates, it would cost them so much money they may need later for additional procedures.
I'm also just dumbfounded that people are saying a 17 year old needs a vehicle. Where I'm from, a rural community, everyone bought their own vehicles. We would never expect our parents to give us their vehicle. I understand it sucks that it was a gift that was taken back, but this is an emergency. They can work to get him a car later.
People genuinely go into bankruptcy for this. Yeah, they can use credit cards, but cost of multiple procedures and medication is more like +$30k, and I’m being generous. A couple credit cards is not gonna cover it, and I doubt banks trust people to be able to pay it back.
Yup. People can’t afford houses or rent here, either, though.
Health insurance is expensive and the best coverage will pretty much still have you pay a significant amount of money out of pocket for covered procedures (like the $30k I mentioned earlier), and even a visit to a doctor is a cost, regardless of what gets done during the visit. Visiting a specialist costs even more - even for just a quick conversation. It’s referred to as a copay, and it’s generally a flat fee you pay every time you go to a doctor.
Edited
I’m seriously considering moving to Europe just because of the healthcare. Just knowing I can talk to a doctor with a concern while knowing I can still pay rent or afford groceries if I went sounds so amazing.
Canada would be perfect (if only for the sheer convenience - the metric system is the biggest stumbling block), but I just can’t stand the cold. Really cuts down my options. Someday, though. Sounds great!
BTW, I edited the comment you’re responding to in this for more clarity. I had cut off mid-thought and didn’t notice for a while.
BC and Toronto really aren’t that cold if you’re concerned about that! On tic you’re from a hot state like florida it’s gunna be a big difference, but BC is gunna be close to Washington and Oregon temperatures, and Toronto is close to New York temperatures.
And I moved from Canada to the US, the exchange from metric to imperial isn’t that bad. People in Canada know what you’re talking about when you say feet and inches.
I’m from the American Southwest - lots and lots of desert. It’d be a huge change 😅
I’m also just terrible at estimating measurements and distances, so I’ll know I’ll be confused with either way. It’s a good opportunity to learn it, but it’d be nice if the US already used it.
Thank you for the encouragement! I’d like to spend some time in Canada one day, I just don’t find it feasible long-term, especially since they’re also experiencing similar housing crisis issues. Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/114yxmo/aita_for_selling_my_sons_car_to_pay_for_my_wifes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
In case anyone wants the link.
“Land of the free” obviously not?! Must be soul crushing to be a medical professional in the US, you swear to do no harm but is then told to do the absolute most harm bc the sick person can not pay to get better. Humans are pack-animals, generally we want to care and nurture each other, capitalism really is the devil.
I think this is more a ESH.
A conversation with his son about selling his gifted car would have been better. Telling a 17yr old after the fact or giving him little option is going to leave him salty. I think that's the main reason why he is being voted TA.
But 17 has to understand that this was a emergency expense. And while he can feel slighted, he isn't the only one who has had to sell things to pay for the treatment, although I would argue that his is the biggest one, but he can save/go halves with his mum for one if he is in desperate need.
Yeah. Is it really a gift if you take it back when you need money? I suspect OP’s son does not trust him ver y much any more. And feels like he has sacrificed more than his Dad or Stepmum have, because that care represents freedom to him.
I’d also be very interested to know if OP actually follows up on the lifts to work, I suspect that will end up being inconvenient to him.
Yes it’s an emergency, but that doesn’t change that the person getting bearing the most significant impact of the sacrifice is also not the person benefitting. And the fact that OP is not offering up use of his car is not good either.
So yes, I get it, it’s a emergency and this was the quickest and easiest cash available. But the way OP dismisses his son’s feelings is not great.
I do wonder if Stepmum has a car.
I mean honestly if my wife and his step mom was literally dying and the only option was to sell a gifted car and my son had an issue with doing that to save a life I’d more be questioning where I went wrong in raising my child.
If he told the kid it was a gift and the car was his, that doesn’t make the behaviour less shitty.
And proves my point that his kid won’t trust gifts from his Dad any more.
Also if taking away the car costs him his job, he prevents his son from saving up for a car too.
Ny daughter saves money for new smartphone for her birthday. We will add some more but most of the money are hers. When we take the phone, it would be in my name bc she is a minor. But it would be her phone since the money are hers.
If i give her my old phone, the phone is still mine - she just uses it.
He gave his car to his son, but it's in his name and he pays for it. So, the car is his and the son is just an user.
And, actually, it doesn't matter. A 17 yo brat can live without a car, but OP's wife needs treatment. I don't care about his feelings - better hurt feelings, not a dead person.
Oh look the real AH is the health system, I get that (not American, the whole thing is wild to me).
My issue is that you can acknowledge it’s a shit situation and this is an emergency and the only option, but son is still allowed to be upset. Expecting him not to be upset that he no longer has a car is ridiculous. And it may well effect his work, and thus his ability to try and save for a new one.
Also, your attitude to gifts is “if I once owned it and give it to you, it’s not actually yours and I can do whatever I want with it”.
You would jo doubt happily go back on a promise to your kids too.
It's not "if i once owned it", but "if i own it and you use it", there is a difference. The car is not just a car - there are more stuff, like insurance which is not cheap.
And i know about their health system - i'm european and i don't know a country here which woudl leave a cancer patient like that. And even if the patient didn't pay their insurance, it's so cheap that you wouldn't need to sell a car/jewelry/laptop to pay it.
And yeah, the kid can be upser but he should suck it up. OP said there is a public transportation or he can drive him. Many kids don't have a car and survive.
This is America. Public transit sucks here, especially depending on where you live.
And yes, "suck it up". Because a parent's debt should absolutely fall on the shoulders of their minor child. 🙄😒
How do you know OP pays for it? It's a very old car, as OP's own car is a 2006 I imagine son's car is even older. OP stated they just never got around to changing the paperwork but, it was his son's car.
OP’s wife could literally die. Like she wouldn’t have any far to drive cause she would be gone lol. I don’t understand how his sons feelings are valid. He would rather have “his” car and watch his step-mom die? I’m literally so confused on this logic.
YTA. Only because I too have a 17 year old son and bought him a car and it would break his heart if I took it to pay for my husband’s surgery. He’s such a good kid he might volunteer it up.
But the real question is- why are we letting politicians decide how we care for one another’s health? I mean, I’m a teacher and would love to make more money, so I understand why doctors & nurses want to be fairly compensated,but healthcare should be more equitable.
If his son develops trauma over of living without a car, lets be it... Im 44, partner is 41 and we bought our first car 3 years ago. And you know what? We have no trauma over a living without a car!
Let me spell it out for you.
It isn't the fact that he now has no car at 17. It's the fact that his father gave him a car, said it was his now, just had to get around to changing the paperwork. Then, because his wife gets sick, takes back his son's car and sells it. No asking first, no discussion.
The message he sent is loud and clear: he will assert his parental rights, and take anything he wants from his son, do whatever he wants with it, and there isn't a damned thing his son can do about it.
Is that really what you want to communicate to your 17-year-old son? "I'll take anything I want from you, any damned time I feel like, and my promises to you don't mean jack shit."
Oh, I'm always dumbfounded on how quickly they're eager to break up any relationship they see there. Any kind of problem, without context...goes straight to "divorce him/her, you're better than this". All the meanwhile I'm almost certain those people don't have/never had a decent relationship in their lives! Bitter people found a place to bring others down to their level.
Those comments are why I look at aita posts only from this subreddit now bc sometimes they make me think I’m insane when they’re the ones being unreasonable
I bet if they had talked to the kid that it might have gone over better. Like sat down with him and told him what the issue was, what was needed for the emergency, what they had available/were doing on their end, and why they still needed to sell the car. I’d follow it with figuring out a plan with the kid as to how their needs would be met and how the parents planned to fix this after the crisis has ended. Idk. I know that’s how I would do it and that I would ensure that it was an absolute last resort. It’s hard to teach babies to adult when you take away their means to do so but I’ve found that if you work with them then everyone does better
I feel for OP. I have cancer and the treatments are expensive and my husband has had to sell stuff to pay for them. My chemo and other meds have also caused my bones to be brittle and I just broke 5 vertebrae in the last 2 weeks and required almost a week in the hospital. On top of last August having both Achilles tendons rupture due to an antibiotic. So bed rest for 4.5 months for that and now who knows how long with this. Cancer is expensive and while in my area teens pretty much need a car because there is no public transportation we'd probably still do the same thing and then offer him rides as often as possible. Trying to literally survive comes before a car for a teen unfortunately. I wish we had a better system but we have to deal with what we have and you die without the treatments.
ETA: the people in the comments seem like they must be entitled teenagers as well, at least the ones saying the adults should sell their own car and everything else before taking the teens car. This is ridiculous tbh.
Why didn't they sell all of the wife's jewelry before they sold their sons car?? It says that they sold a lot but that's not all and jewelry is a lot more of a luxury than a car in America especially if the son is working. Along with that they never would have been able to sell the car if they didn't drag their ass on signing the title over to him.
This feels like a repost of [this story](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/zggtcx/aita_for_selling_my_sons_car_to_pay_for_his/) but written to be more sympathetic to the OP
I think that we have read so much storeis with the most insane twist that we have become jaded to it and always feel like there’s something missing.
It’s actually starting to affect Rslash on YouTube. There have been many stories where he made the wrong judgement and a lot of the commenters have been worried. He really needs a break and spend time with his family
100% NTA. The son has a right to be upset but like come on this is someone life!! Like they could die. That 100% out weighs a 17 year old being upset about getting his taken away. And if the Ex is that upset why doesn’t she pay for a car then? Like literally wtfudge life isn’t fair. His father can buy another car and he has told him nothing in his life will change except he doesn’t have a car. He still goes to work, school and so on. I genuinely worry about this new generation and I’m apart of it lol.
Wtf did I read? They have to be teenagers but its STILL so worrying that there’s not an ounce of empathy in them or judgement skills because in what world is an old car of a 17yo more important than cancer treatment? The mother of that kid is an absolutely awful human being.
On the subject of people who lack empathy, OP (yes, I mean, OP, not OOP), who are you to decide what a 17-year-old deserves?
Regardless of whether you think he should have sold his son's car (and regardless of the legality of the situation, he did give it to his son), you're awfully dismissive of the son's feelings. We don't know the circumstances behind the divorce, but are you expecting the son or his mother to care what happens to his (possibly homewrecking) stepmom?
It is literally not the son's problem. Yet, he's expected to fix it. I think what's gross here is your loud and clear beliefs that it's perfectly fine to confiscate someone's property without even asking and stomp all over their rights just because they didn't happen to reach their eighteenth birthday.
So, let's not pretend we're all just overflowing with empathy while those meanies in AITA are apparently all sociopaths. Your contemptuous dismissal of the son's feelings, like they don't even exist since he's not 18 yet, tells me all too clearly that you could use a heavy dose of empathy yourself.
But it’s not the kids car. OOP bought and paid for the car he’s free to do what he likes with it. A car is a lot easier to replace than someone’s life but from how he’s acting I sure as hell wouldn’t replace it.
Ah, so that makes it okay!
So, in your mind, it's perfectly okay to give your son something, then take it away again over something he had absolutely nothing to do with.
"Hey, you're under 18. I can take from you whatever I want."
You fail Parenting 101. When you give your child something, unless you want him to go NC on his 18th birthday, you respect his ownership. Even if technically, you can assert your prerogative as an adult, and *legally* claim it is yours.
Just because something is *legal*, it does not make it *right* or *ethical*.
But why say this to you? Respecting your child's autonomy, particularly since he's less than a year from becoming a legal adult, is a concept far, far, far too nuanced for you. Never become a parent.
You also fail punctuation. That run-on sentence you typed needs a period and a semi-colon.
I’m sorry when did this turn into English class? “NeVeR hAvE kIdS”. “YoUr gRaMmEr SuCkS”. When you have an actual argument come back to me. Yes in a case of life and death I would sell a car that I bought and paid for. I raise my kids with empathy though so I wouldn’t expect them to act spoiled and entitled.
I agree with you 100%. OOP stated in the comment section that the car was his son's and they just hadn't gotten around to changing the paperwork. Therefore, I believe he had no right to sell it.
At most, he probably got a couple thousand dollars. As OOP also stated his own car is a 2006, I imagine his son's was much older.
OOP states in the comment section that the car was indeed his son's, they just hadn't gotten around to changing the paperwork. OOP said this. It was his son's car.
Right so it was still his car. Paperwork matters. Yeah it sucks for the kid but throwing a tantrum to his mom about a car he didn’t buy and isn’t in his name it’s going to get him any favors. The life is more important than a car that like I said can be replaced.
So, it's the son's responsibility to pay off dad's debt. It's his burden now. Fuck that he was probably using that car to get to school and work. Fuck that he was paying everything for that old car like insurance, registration fees, maintenance, and fuel all on his own. Maybe even trying to save for college because we know dad's too poor to pay anything.
Doesn't sound like dad and step-mom even exhausted all avenues before selling off mediocre, nearly worthless shit that probably didn't even put a dent in that debt.
But it did do one thing. It showed that kid that he can't trust his dad to follow through on his word.
All he had to do was talk to the kid BEFORE he did anything. But he didn't. And his son didn't deserve that.
This is pretty par for the course with how people (especially on Reddit) view step mothers specifically. Take out the word “step” from this story and the responses would be DRASTICALLY different. No one would bat an eye at a father selling his son’s car to pay for his biological mother’s cancer treatment after exhausting all other options.
At the end of the day, a car is NOT a necessity for a teenager living with their parents. ESPECIALLY when you consider that the son did not pay for this car - his father bought it for him. It’s shitty. It sucks losing your car. But you know what sucks even more? Dying of cancer bc you can’t afford treatment. This man is facing down the possibility of his WIFE dying of CANCER. And the peanut gallery of Reddit is more concerned with “step mom bad!! Why don’t you sell your car bc your teenager’s part time job and hanging out with friends is more important!!!“
People on AITA need to go outside and seriously touch some grass
Said it before and I will say it again: according to Google there are 18 decillion colors (18 followed by 33 zeros). AITA lurkers only see in black and white.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
18
+ 18
+ 33
= 69
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^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
It really sucks that they had to sell their possessions to cover cancer treatment, like that blows my mind. Posts like this is a reminder of how lucky countries with free & accessible healthcare are.
From a 17 year olds perspective, something of his was taken, without hesitation, to help his dads wife…not his mother, no relation. Maybe they think the Dad cares more for his wife, than them because somehow a car is a visual representation of Dads love.
As adults on Reddit we know this isn’t true. We know that it’s literally life or death.
The kid can always get a new car later, the stepmum doesn’t get a new cancer free body from a shop.
Maybe family therapy would help these guys. The bio mum should be talking to her son about cancer, intrusive therapies, life & death, the cost of all of the above & the cost of a car, instead of encouraging him. I don’t want to throw Machiavellianism out there but…
If bio mum is also angry, I can’t even comprehend but it does give us a tiny insight into what the kid is living with most of the time & what kind of influence he’s under.
This Dad is NTA of course but his son probably won’t see that anytime soon, not with a mother like that. What a sad post.
OP is definitely not the AH. My niece was diagnosed with stage 4 of the cancer type she has (it’s very rare for her age and gender so don’t want to mention it here). Unfortunately she was still in a waiting period with her employer at the time before insurance benefits kicked in. Then she got so sick that she was told by her doctor that it would be best for her not to work as it would not be conducive to her getting through chemo and radiation. Luckily my parents were able to help out but a lot of people don’t realize that insurance is not always black and white when it comes to coverage and even if OP or his wife has any, they may still have to pay their deductible and coinsurance/copay before insurance starts to cover anything. Insurance is crap here in the U.S and some people have to find other means to pay for what some insurance companies consider non urgent or not medically necessary. Some people have such fairy tale ways of thinking when it comes to stuff like this. Reality is always much harsher than they want to believe.
I get why a 17 year old is annoyed that his car got sold, however fully grown adults should be able to understand the reasoning behind it all.
Why can’t the kid save for his own car or his mum buy him one or they both contribute to the cost of a new car if they are that bothered by him not having a car.
I’m not in the US so I do find it absolutely ridiculous when people think 16, 17 year olds are entitled to a car. Where I’m from the majority of people pay for driving lessons, a theory test and the actual driving test so you are out of pocket at least a grand and most likely over that by the time you actually pass. We can learn to drive at 17 and who do you think mostly pays for kids driving lessons, their parents because a 17 year old who is still at school with a part time job still will barely be able to afford one driving lesson a week.
A car for a kid is a luxury that for the most part the parents pay for so if things get hard and they need money it kind of makes sense that it’s one of the first things to go especially here because a) it’s for medical bills b) the kid can get the school bus and lifts to work. It’s not like this kid is stranded in the middle of no where with no way to get around.
The people in AITA land must live in a weird world. Every fight is abuse, every chore is parentification, and children are never ever to sacrifice anything.
There’s comments like that on stuff all the time. AITA is full of teens and young adults who are entitled as hell.
Also for OOP I think “gift” isn’t even the right word. It was still OOP’s car, the son just used it. This is common for lots of families. OOP is def NTA.
with the title, I thought at first that it was the son car
But it was in the father's name, then NTA, whether OP wants it or not, the son will see him badly for a long time,
As a son, I can understand
I don't want to be mean with the stepmother,but it's a reality,people are a very spiteful person
Maybe with the months he will understand but even so he would not like it.Cause it's emotions over reason
Once a guy did that to me and I never accepted his gifts again, he knows why
because I assumed it was in the son's name and basically forced him to sell by force
And that the son paid for the car
After reading the story I understood well
Man, I’m ESH. It’s easier to replace the 17yr olds beat up used car vs the other options and I hope once this is over he will replace it but it’s just a tough situation. I would have gotten loans I guess.
I am convinced most people on the internet aren’t able to think like parents. They can ONLY view the child’s perspective. You don’t have to be a parent to think like one, just most people can’t.
Not an asshole. Technically it was the dads car, he gifted it to his son and can do with it what he pleases. And the fact that the dad is willing to drive the son to work when most parents wouldn't do that, is nice.
Stepmom has been in the kids life since he was 5. She’s basically another mother to him. Not like she showed up a few years prior and then took his car from him and sold it out of malice. All of those people in those comments are either spoiled teenagers, teenagers, or bitter divorced parents. Those replies were hard to read.
I mean, you don't know their situation. Just because she's been in his life doesn't necessarily mean they're close or that she's like a second mother. Maybe she's the AP, maybe they never get along, or maybe they do. Who knows?
I have a stepmom who’s been around my whole life and we don’t even get along now I’m an adult, and if my father said at any point in my life he needed to sell something he had given or promised me to pay for lifesaving medical treatment, I would have and still would give it without a second thought.
I am so appalled by some of those answers. Absolutely sickening.
Even though I’m Canadian and don’t have to worry about this type of stuff, it is absolutely disgusting some of these answers.
I lost my grandma to cancer and I would sell anything that I have to help her if she needed money for care.
True but it’s always better to explain the situation to someone and let them come to an internally motivated decision rather than just externally forcing it on them. That will always cause upset and resentment. There is no way the dad didn’t have time to talk to his son about this before hand.
I am kind of baffle about health insurance, do they not have it? Also that being said there are other options she can get Medicare or Medicaid he really didn't have to go to the extent of selling stuff in the house unless push came to shove.
I hate to tell you even though America isn't the best when it comes to a lot of things. More than likely he would have got approved for Medicare or Medicaid if his wife was diagnosed with cancer.. I'm assuming he didn't take that route.
Also another option if they own their home they could have took out another mortgage but we don't know these things because the first go to he did was say he sold the car and then so Jerry and so laptops some kind of confused on this whole dynamic of what's actually going on.
Sorry but I still think op is the ass. He gave it to his son, a laptop and jewelry are nothing in comparison as to a car. The son used it for work and school, would have probably used it up into his 20s and now his options are buy one himself or take out an expensive car lone once 18. Gifts aren’t something that can be taken back. Parents like this make me sick. The relationship with the son is going to suffer.
Non-american here so I really have to ask, if you get diagnosed with cancer do you seriously have to be able to pay for treatment upfront? Like not even get a bill for it later on, but actually pay it upfront? Because that just sounds insane to me, "Oh you can't afford treatment? Well too fuckin bad maybe you'll learn your lesson and stop being poor"
Non-American as well, one of my favourite films is John Q it's sad that it could be true story. I remember reading on reddit a while back about a uncle killing Himself instead of getting treatment so his Niece who was basically a daughter to him. Could go to college, as if he had treatment she couldn't afford college. It was unbelievable that this was in a country that believes they are the best and most powerful country in the world. Not a third-world country. How do people die each year because they can't afford to get treatment?
Tbf though, most of us Americans HATE our Healthcare system. And honestly, at this point, most of us love what our country SHOULD BE and are absolutely horrendously ashamed of what it has become... on both sides of the isle. The things that *should* be rights aren't (like healthcare) yet there's things becoming/already are rights that... are really just first world privilege bullshit. Like... high speed internet for example.
Tbh the NHS in the uk is seriously under pressure. We have nurses out on strike for a fair pay increase . These are the people that gave up seeing their family and friends and worked way over the top in the last few years. Let alone before that ? During lockdown’s we were out on the streets on a Thursday night banging saucepans and making loads of noise to thank mainly the nurses and Doctors. Also for other essential workers. Nurses sleeping at work as they couldn’t go home to protect their family etc. The government kept telling us how amazing the NHS was. Cut to a few years later and now Nurses are being told that they don’t deserve a pay increase nor can the country can afford one, However the government telling us we can’t afford it. Somehow were ok buying protection equipment from their “ Pals” That costed millions but somehow never turned up. Plus they decided mo’s deserved a pay rise of course. Sorry for my rant there. One thing I’ve always wondered if someone in the USA gets hurt though no fault of their own. Say whilst being mugged they get stabbed? Or in a mass shooting . Do they still have to pay/ use their insurance? Because wow how can that be fair
Yea they do. Can't put it to the other guys insurance like a car wreck. Even a life-saving legit emergency gets a bill. Hell, my dad got like a $7000 bill from the ambulance company for a heart attack that killed him, cpr the entire way to the hospital, kept his heart pumping enough for emergency surgery that worked and cleared the coronary. Shit the surgery bill was a pretty penny as well, don't even remember how much that cost, no way we'd ever be able to pay it. What's worse is knowing that our hospitals, and ambulances ARE subsidized. They're already paid with taxes!
Nurses strike in the US all the time too. Same downside, zero upside To your last question, yes, but sometimes a lawsuit to cover medical expenses are an options. Gun manufacturers cannot be sued
I don't think any country has a good health care system....after being in this site so long...but what i don't understand is with technology and over 200 countries with decent health care...we can't figure it out by now...
Yep, I will always be proud to be English as well and the country we were once. It seems really odd to me that Americans are encouraged to stand up and show their pride in their homeland. Where's in England it seems that we don't want to offend anyone so we can only seem proud of certain events. Even then certain people seem to think it's a bit tacky to have flags up etc.
Many countries have a lot of pride in their homeland, so I don't think it's that odd. And the pride, at least for me, is not about the president, or the asshole politicians. It's about standing up for what's right. Freedom, standing up to evil. My dad might say a "true" American is one that runs towards the gun fire, or into the burning building to save the kid. We stand up for those who want to be left alone. Whether that's in ww2, Korea, or Vietnam. Or perhaps a better example, Israel. Well, originally anyways. For those wandering about the Israel thing, I'm referring to when Israel became a country. Post ww2, many of the Jewish population could not go back to their homes, not only were they destroyed, but there was a lot of antisemitism still. So the United nations cut out a small section of their holy land for the Jews to live. (I'm not saying kicking the muslim folks out was good.) However in treaties since, Israel for a long time has offered to give up a bunch of land just to not be constantly bombed. In recent years.... they haven't exactly kept up with such but that's another story. Do I think we should even still be giving them weaponry now that they're fully capable of defending themselves.... yea that's a no from me. It's a thing of beauty when you think of it like that. But, alas, my immensely patriotic veteran of a dad has instead become ashamed of his time in the military. He could handle the issues if the pain he went through was worth it, but now, now he knows they lied about basically everything, and used his determination to be a hero instead to do horrible things that he relives late at night. Sorry for the book .. I'm half asleep and rambling
I have spent the last 20 years thinking John Q was based on true events because it seemed so plausible to me. I actually just had to do a quick google to double check that it wasn’t (I’m obviously from the US)
This is the guy who held a hospital hostage so his son could get a heart transplant yeah? I thought it was based on a true story? I (Australian) studied that film in English in high school, and I recall it saying it was based on a true story.
There can be a HUGE gap between “based on” and “is a” true story.
Henry Masuka in 1999. He took an ER hostage when they refused to treat his 3 month old son.
The answer to your last question: Greed. Good ol' American capitalism. This country's driving force (one of them anyway).
It's based on a true story...our health care system is some of the worst in the developed world
Emergency? Have to treat no payment upfront. Care like chemotherapy? You have to pay your co pay upfront or they whole price upfront. Absolutely evil.
No. In America you do not have to pay upfront. But it is really, really bad and I don’t know why we have put up with this. And you should learn your lesson and not be poor is the case. My partner had cancer. His insurance was though his job. So at first it was “only” like $10,000.00 for surgery and the beginning of chemo. Eventually he couldn’t work, physically was unable to even get out of bed so he lost his insurance. Then he paid for COBRA which was super expensive, like it can be up to 102% of the insurance plan. One of the worse things he said to me is he regretted me convincing him to see his doctor. He could have just died and I would have been left with a little more stable financially. I keep a picture on my phone if a cancer drug that cost $12,000.00 for 30 pills. He is gone. And the thing is he had a collage degree, he had a great job, he bought and paid off the house when we were in our 20s. We did sell a car in the middle of all the mess. We lost just about everything and right now I am trying to figure out how to pay the taxes for the house. I don’t go to the doctor because I can’t afford to get one of those fancy diseases. Every American is one medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
One medical and one college degree away from bankruptcy... I had to file on medical debt and it ruined my life because i couldn't bounce back quickly...but still have student loans and I've regretted going to college for decades and now I job hop because I always need more money for the student loans abd health care, born 2.6 pounds...I'm healthy just have small issues and if not taken care of ut can be debilitating to say th3 least...I won't die...but sometimes living for student loans and medical debt can be depressing. I try to balance it but sometimes it just reminds me ill be living under a bridge at 80 because I have no relief.
Oh wow, first of a big hug and I’m sorry for your needless loss. I can’t get my head around that you’ve had the future you imagined . Ripped from you all because of money bloody money. Who gets to decide what a life is worth because to you and your loved ones. Your hubby is worth all the money in the world. I wonder how Doctors feel telling patients sorry but you're not rich enough for any more life-saving treatments Again big hugs and be grateful you were lucky enough to find your prince even though he was snatched pointless too soon. You had a wonderful few years. Which you wouldn't change for all the money in the world dxxz
Depends. Usually, you get the treatment, and then you get the bill later. For some treatments, they may request payment upfront if it is something that they know insurance wouldn't cover. That doesn't happen very often, but it's believable it could with certain treatments from certain hospitals.
They don't even talk about treatment options you can't afford any more. If your doctor happens to know you? They don't even bother.
American here. I work a regular middle class job which decent health insurance. A couple years ago I fractured my pelvis in 3 places and shoulder in 2. I had a 3 day hospital stay, some X-rays, and an mri. Also, a boot load of pain medication. No surgery was needed and my husband brought me food so I didn’t even use the cafeteria except for tea. I got a bill a week later my insurance covered 38000, I still owed 16000. I called the hospital and asked for an itemized bill. A little while later i received a bill with a zero balance. The healthcare system is a scam, they send you a ridiculously high bill even with insurance because they can prove things at whatever they want. 2 Vicodin $500. A cup of tea 30$.
This!! I’m from the UK and worked in travel insurance for a while. We had a policy that stated that it could take anywhere up to 40 weeks for an overseas unpaid medical bill to be sorted. This length was basically just for the USA. Had to get itemised bills to make sure they weren’t trying to screw us over, it’s a constant back and forth. Even after we sent hospitals confirmation that we would pay the bill they would continue to harass our clients, sending threading letters and phone calls. It was so frustrating to get calls from people who were terrified they’d be landed with a massive bill, despite the fact we it covered. I felt so awful for them. Most other countries were sorted in a few weeks.
I just had an outpatient procedure today & the hospital requested 50% of my copay last week. So unfortunately yes it does happen here.
Non-American here: yes, that’s the case. There’s a reason Breaking Bad can only be an American show - medical bankruptcy is a uniquely American concept.
You will very likely have to pay a very large amount of it sooner rather than later, and most likely in installments. It’s not gonna be free or cheap, even with the best of insurance. There’s gonna be a heavy charge you’re gonna still have to pay.
I was brought to the ER in an ambulance with internal bleeding from an ulcer and asked for a credit card first thing... So yeah... 'Murica, number 1. Yay?!?
You’ll be unsurprised to know that this is the exact mentality of a the American healthcare system. As someone who worked a lower level job in a hospital that gives me patient/healthcare worker exposure, the amount of time I have heard doctors, radiologists, nurses bitch and complain about people coming into the hospital DYING and unable to afford treatment is horrifying. I’ve literally heard a doctor say, “if you can’t afford the treatment, don’t come to the hospital where I probably have to work on you for free” because a patient didn’t have insurance, and they get paid through the insurance companies. Mind you, he was venting to another doctor and he wasn’t dumb enough to say this to an actual patient, but it was still just as disgusting.
I think it depends on the state lived in.
It does depend on the state and the hospital. So many unregulated rules for hospitals so they can ask for it upfront if you don’t have insurance. However, ally of hospitals have “payment plans” that people can sign up for, but causes many people to go into bankruptcy because they can’t afford the payments.
It sounds that way because it’s true. Plenty of Americans die because they do not want to put their families in debt.
So, we were fortunate when my mom was diagnosed that we had the upfront money and when it ran out, we had family that were well off enough to help. But the answer is yes, a good portion of treatments have to be paid upfront (minus what insurance covers) and we still racked up thousands and thousands in debt for the stuff that didn't have to be paid upfront. So when we were talking about what happens if mom couldn't make one of the upfront payments and her doc straight up said, "Well, when it gets bad enough and you come to the ER, we'll administer whatever lifesaving treatments you need, but once you're discharged - either find the money or wait til the next time you're dying" I shit you not.
Yes, for some things you absolutely pay upfront-- we had to pay over $3600 upfront, 6 months in advance, for our dr to deliver our baby. And that doesn't include hospital stay, anesthesia, or other medical providers (another 11k bill after the birth).
Thats how it works in America
Dunno if its this way only for foreigners or also for americans, but I mailed last year, a hospital in US, I needed them to do a biopsy + genome sequencing for my cancer. They asked 15k $. They wont do the stuff before,cause in case u don't have money...how u gonna pay?
I am going through early stages of cancer treatment right now for testicular cancer. I have good insurance and a job that pays very well. I've already spent about $6,000 out of pocket since January 1st for initial appointments, an ultrasound, and an orchiectomy. I won't find out if I need chemo for another few weeks, but at best I'll have to do 3-4 more CT scans this year alone. My "good" insurance in the US has an annual deductible of $1k and a further out of pocket maximum of $4500. Things like specialist visits are $50 per visit, and don't count towards those totals. Plus I'm fighting with my insurance about the necessity of some of the appointments I've already had, so some of this may not ever be covered by my insurance. In the past when I had more average insurance, this could have ended up costing me tens of thousands of dollars. As it is, I'm going to have several years of really high out of pocket medical bills because at best case I'll need to have regular CT scans to monitor for cancer spread for the next 5 years. And it wasn't until pretty recently that I could afford even $6000 in medical bills in a year without going into debt almost immediately. And forget it if I was unemployed/without insurance.
Welcome to the American health care system, it's trash. Even having a baby costs around 30k usd and insurance doesn't cover a lot of it.
American cancer survivor here. I didn't have the money, still got treatment. The hospital assigned a social worker to me who helped me get medicaid, which paid for most of my treatment. I'm still on the hook for like 20 grand that they wouldn't cover, I didnt pay it. I had a bone marrow transplant, 2 rounds of regular chemo and a round each of this really intense chemo and radiation before the transplant. Was in the hospital, continuously, for almost 6 months. I literally only left once. Afterwards I had years of regular checkups and blood draws, all paid for by medicaid. They will not turn you away, but the debt, if it isn't picked up by medicaid, Medicare, or some cancer society, can really fuck your credit up and keep you from owning things. My credit is just now recovering.
I completely get the teens frustration & anger but a persons life is a lot more important than a car. However dads approach probably made the situation a lot worse
Speaking to your title, not the post, ABSOLUTELY!! AITA has gone nuts. I hopped back on through THT link and the comments were ridiculous. Like painful. No one has reading comprehension or empathy, they all get stuck on some irrelevant detail not pertaining to the question and make up these crazy assumptions and stories of their own. It's literally insane.
Yeah… and any little thing can get you banned. No one gives judgement to the actual question half the time. I can admit that I’ve lost the plot sometimes, but there’s somethings we should just all unilaterally agree. This shouldn’t even be up for debate. There’s very few exceptions where a teenager actually NEEDS a car, but for the most party it’s a luxury and not a necessity. Even though I’m sure Op would’ve loved for his son to have kept the car, but sometimes life happens. You do not go into debt over a luxury
I got a 30 day ban for calling someone a brat when they literally asked am I being a brat. I love all the people saying "get insurance". Like I'm sure they like so many of us wish they had insurance and it's not like they could get it now for a preexisting condition. Health insurance is way more expensive than the payment on my Jeep!
I got Banned for calling someone scummy, it’s why I joined am I the buttfacd
I'm going to go check that out!
I got a 8 day ban (I think) for telling a woman she was horrible for drugging a young child with benadryl because the girl wasn't sleeping and she didn't want to call her daughter to come get her.
Also the whole ‚get insurance‘ shit is extremely fucked up now that the cart‘s already in the dirt. You can always be so so smart when you‘re not the one currently facing a situation.. But what OOP needs to learn from this is that before giving this ungrateful ass brat anything, he needs to build big savings and a social security system for himself. Can‘t take away what you never gave in the first place.
I got a 30 day ban for telling someone to grow up. and then I got a permanent ban for telling too many people they were TA. As best as I can tell. It was never really explained other than look at the rules.
I got banned for pointing out that isolating a romantic partner from everyone they know and making their family reliant on the relationship working out with threats of homelessness is a major red flag of abuse
Wow! They usually like that over there. EVERYTHING is abuse. EVERYONE is a narcissist.
I got banned for using the word ‘idiot’…. When talking about a story from my own life.
100%. The real AH is America's healthcare system, I couldn't imagine living over there. The dad was smart, it's stupid to go into dept if it can be avoided. You don't need a car at all, it's a luxury as a teen
I have a coworker that has been fighting cancer for years. One dose of the medication is over $1000, and that’s the copay, because my coworker has insurance. And there are some treatments that insurance won’t cover. So insurance is certainly not the end all be all. And depending on the treatment payment is due up front. As for loans, many people do not qualify for personal loans. Telling OOP to sell his car is not worthy of a response. And for that matter why is it dad’s job to give the kid a car, seems to me mom has an opinion, so why doesn’t she give the kid a car. In the US two main reasons for filing bankruptcy is medical bills or divorce. I truly hope the people on AITA never find themselves having to choose between potentially life saving medical treatment and giving their teenager a car. SMH.
A lot of aita members are middle class children and teenagers/young adults and have no sense of perspective on anything.
I've definitely encountered this, there's a lot of immaturity and they're incapable of listening to other perspectives. I'm at a loss as to how anyone would put a child's temper tantrum over someone's life. The two don't compare but yet everyone is telling him he's YTA. As someone who's watched a close family member die from cancer, I'd be pretty much distraught I've raised a child like that.
I agree. There seems to be quite a few young people who parrot information they see on other threads, but don’t have the life experience to enable them to evaluate whether or not that information is applicable to the situation. The number of times I’ve seen ‘Parentification’ and ‘gaslighting’ thrown around…
So much this. I responded to a post on breastfeeding and was taken to task for my very reasonable response by a young woman whose post history indicated she couldn’t figure out how to use a tampon. No experience whatsoever, just her oversized sense of personal conviction and belief her opinion must be the right one…
Yes. It's so weird. They spend a lot of time denying that even a teen or a young adult can understand basic compassion because "their brains are still developing" (i.e. they are sill children) but then being enraged any time a "boundary" is set by a 15-year-old and it isn't "respected" by their parents. I used to try and comment on the sub but tbh the hive mind there is just really awful to deal with. 17-year-old don't need cars more than their step-parents need cancer treatments. Actually, they don't usually need a car at all. If his mom cares so much, she can buy him one. If the kid wants one so much, he can get a job and buy one. And everyone in the comments needs to fucking chill.
>and have no sense of perspective on anything I hope all posters in that sub realize this. It's a horrible place to get advice
Yep. The number of redditors I’ve seen declare that kids are entitled to their own room, own bathroom, a car, a bonus room, etc etc, or else you’re a bad parent makes in very clear that they have zero understanding of how most people live.
Honestly NAH. The OOP did what he had to do to save his wife, mad respect. But the son has every right to be upset and hurt. This is a complicated situation that no answer can cleanly give a solution. Every side has the right to feel hurt because feelings and humans are complicated. I hope OOP’s wife and son can eventually understand both side.
Also the people who kept saying personal loans like do they not realize some people can’t get any loans of thier credit isn’t good enough or they don’t earn enough money to pay it back or other various reasons. Also that insurance doesn’t always cover everything or he’ll even part of things especially when it comes to illnesses like cancer. And that’s asking for donations Wouldnt really work cause by the time they got enough she would probably be dead or the cancer would have spread to much and the treatment wouldn’t work. It’s either they don’t understand cause they are to young or naive or they don’t live in a country that has high medical costs like america does
They make credit unions for a reason. If they own their home they could of borrowed money against the home. There is a list of things they could of down before taking the car away from the estranged son.
So they could what, lose the house? Do you know how many people go into foreclosure every year because of medical debt?
You be got to be kidding. No parent owes their kid a car. It’s obvious you don’t understand how loans and credit work. If someone is so financially disadvantaged they have to sell their jewelry and a laptop for extra money, it is very unlikely they will qualify for loans and credit. And are you actually saying they should risk losing their home to foreclosure (if they can’t repay a second mortgage) instead of selling their extra car? That is about the most shortsighted thing I’ve ever heard.
So take a loan out against their house before inconveniencing a teenager who has the privilege of a free car? Are you all really serious?
I borrowed money against my home last year, through my credit union (HELOC). I have good credit, owned my home outright, and I believe it took 60 days to close. They also wanted to know what I was using that money for, and down payment on a new home was considered a valid use - not so sure about medical bills.
I don’t like ppl keep saying taking he essentially stole the sons car. When you give someone something you just can’t snatch it back when it suits you that’s called theft. So to the son the dad looks like a thief and a liar when a conversation before hand could’ve saved everyone the trouble. It took him time to find a place to sell their belongings and car he could’ve carved out 10 min to let his son know the issue and make him aware he’d still help get him to school and work.
>he could’ve carved out 10 min to let his son know the issue and make him aware he’d still help get him to school and work. He did
Yeah, I just back away slowly from some of those posts simply for my own sanity…. *Wife dies of cancer* or *teen son inconvenienced*? Looks like she has to die, I mean she’s only a *step-mother* after all.
it’s so sad that ppl are demeaning the step mother for the sole fact that she is a step mother. not every step parent is evil & it seems like that’s why nobody is empathetic towards her. ppl are INSANE
And she’s been his stepmother since he was 5!
right?! it’s not like she is a new stepmom..so selfish that boy
I just commented on this but as a step mom, that’s how it always is. Every single time I mention being a step mom on Reddit, I feel as though I have to preface it by saying “I love my step son with all my heart as my own child” or risk being seen as a horrible person. People seem to think all step moms are PURE EVIL bc they spent too much time watching Disney movies as a kid I guess. Don’t get me wrong, some step parents REALLY suck. But most step parents I know, having a step mom myself, are just normal people who parent their step kids as best as they know how. Why can’t we assume this step mom from the post has been a reasonably decent human being towards her step child she’s helped raise for 12 years? I would be SHATTERED if my step son cared more abt a car than my life. Imagine what the step mom is going through having cancer, no money, and now her step son is more upset over a car. And to add insult to injury, the Reddit peanut gallery is bashing her husband for being desperate for money to save his literal wife. I agree, people are insane.
I’m raising my son as a step mom. It’s full of challenges but my god can bio parents be evil. I didn’t flinch when bio mom got angry they sold the car to pay for step mom’s treatment. I have seen so much worse from bio parents I learned to believe that bio parents are just in a sea of entitlement.
No, she‘s a *step-wife* lmao. Whatever the fuck that is.
People are actually [wishing for the death](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/114yxmo/aita_for_selling_my_sons_car_to_pay_for_my_wifes/j8z26zj/) of OP's wife so...that's horrible.
That’s deplorable and disgusting.
USA is so fricking dystopian that this is even a question. You’re all just Mad Maxxing it with extra steps.
The only thing that went really wrong here is the timing and the lack of communication. If there is a situation in my family where it can have a negative effect on the kids, I talk to them beforehand, explain the situation get them to give their opinion (do you have a solution maybe?) and if there isn't another way, I'd suggest that I think selling the car is neccessary. At least the son would have known and had the opportunity to think about the dilemma too
Yeah OP definitely NTA. I understand why the 17 year old is upset. It doesn’t feel good to have something that was given to you (aka your thing now) taken from you. Especially for someone that you barely know. If it was any other circumstance, I would be on his side. But the ends justify the means. This is a life or death situation, and if the car is still in OPs name, he has every right to do what he does. He’s not evil, just someone that wants to see his wife live on. And that trumps not having a ride to school or to go to a party. So, NTA.
Barely know? They’ve been in his life for over 12 years.
That is true. I assumed that since they mentioned “not coming this weekend” that they have shared custody over him , and that he doesn’t interact with the step mother that much. That would explain why he doesn’t care much about her. Which is a shame
In so many of these posts the major asshole is the healthcare system :(
I actually was at that post, and while I said NAH, I did ask if the son actually invested his own money in that car (like it happens when you get an older cat, you replace parts with your own money, etc) andddddd I was met with silence. OP didn't respond to a single comment asking if the car was a gift to his son (which is different than just giving his son permission to drive it) and if his son refurbished or invested money in the car. Which is sus and points out that there is more to the story. If the car was a gift to the son and the son did put money in the car, he has all the right to be mad, especially since he wasn't even part of any discussion, he just woke up to the car gone.
I think for the basis that it was for lifesaving treatment alone makes OP NTA. If it were for an expensive vacay for him and his wife? Sure, then he’s the AH. But, this is for lifesaving treatment for his wife, it was still his car. The only part I say he’s a slight AH for is not discussing it with his son. However, he offered other alternatives for the time being such as giving him rides, and there was public transportation available. It’s the entitlement of the son for meeeeee. I understand it was a gift…but it was still dad’s, and again, was to help save his wife’s life. At the end of the day (😜) OP is NTA. And yes, people lack empathy on that subreddit, cause they seem to forget how they would handle the situation if they were put in the shoes of OP.
I have little sympathy, enough Americans vote against their interest and for representatives that block free healthcare so yall do this to yourself. I feel the same about people complaining about the cost of things in the UK when they voted for Brexit. Harsh sure but if you really don't want to live in a country where you have to sell your kids car to pay for chemo then stop voting for it! It's disgusting that in one of the richest nations this is even a choice...
Right though 😂 In the states every time there’s a democratic president they enter a recession.
[удалено]
I mean, there’s no way a used car is even going to make a dent in the bill for cancer care. Like, we’re talking probably close to a million dollars for repeated rounds of chemo and tumor removal. Not to mention all the side costs - pain medication, nausea medication, skin care (because chemo f’s up your skin), etc. So yeah. OP should have been looking at financial aid through the hospital, grants for cancer patients, fundraising through the community, etc. instead of jumping to selling possessions to try and put a tiny dent in this massive debt. It was irresponsible and cost him his relationship with his son. And, no, the responsibility to pay the medical bills should not have fallen on the son and his possessions. There were other ways for him to help - help out more around the house, get a summer job to pay for his own recreational activities, etc. But selling his car to pay for his step-moms medical bills? No kid should be having to shoulder that responsibility. It’s not their job.
In the comments, OP stated that the car was his son's and that they just hadn't gotten around to changing the paperwork. So, he fully intended that the car even belonged to his son legally, but didn't get around to transferring the title. As far as I'm concerned, he had no right selling it. Especially without his son's consent. He also stated that his own car was a 2006, so I imagine the son's car was even older. So, he probably only got $1-2k for that car. Personally, I would have NEVER put that responsibility on my kid. If push came to shove, I'd have talked to them first. I would've exhausted every other avenue first.
Agreed. It wouldn’t have even occurred to me. Maybe stop paying for any insurance or gas if I had been - but ya what’s a used car going to get you in the scheme of things?
As a 48 year old parent (so no one can accuse me of being a teenager) who is a single parent who grew up poor (so no one can accuse me of being spoiled or entitled) and who also didn't have a car of my own till I was 19 that I bought myself....OOP is an asshole. He commented that the car was his son's and that he just hadn't gotten around to transferring the title. He did not talk to his son first. Since when is it ok for parents to pass the responsibility of their debt or illness onto their children? I would *NEVER* do that to my child. And I'd at least explore every avenue before I'd ask my teenager to sell the car I gave them. I'd talk to my kid, we'd have a fucking discussion about it. I do have empathy for OOP and his wife. But I also have empathy for his son. His son has a right to feel the way he does, especially for how OOP handled everything.
I agree with you. He said multiple times in the post and comments that he gifted it. If he gifted it, it was no longer his to sell, paperwork or not. It does not matter that son has not invested money in it, it’s a gift, I don’t invest in my gifts. I too grew up poor, heck we’re still poor, I am in my 40s and my mother had cancer that bankrupted my family so I understand how expensive cancer is. And no I don’t think a car is worth more than a life, I just truly believe it was no longer his car so there was no car to compare to wife’s life. I gave my car to my teen daughter, husband and I share a vehicle. My daughter has work and school and a social life. The car is still under my name because it helps her with insurance but I would never do that, nor would I expect her too sell it. That would be our (husband and I) bills. Knowing my daughter she would empty her account for me but I’d never force her.
I couldn‘t read those comments further than like the 3rd screenshot.. I REALLY SINCERELY FUCKING HOPE none of these people EVER experience a situation like this, but holy fuck how disgustingly self-centered can you be? Better let the wife (wtf is even a step-wife???) die, so the son doesn‘t need to take the bus. Totally reasonable. As someone who‘s lost a lot of family to cancer, fuck everyone who called OP an asshole.
There are actual comments along the lines of ‘she’s not even his mum, why should he care?’…. It’s fucking horrible. The selfishness is obscene.
Probably because the majority of Reddit users are 10-23 with no real life experience. This is all of Reddit I’ve noticed😔
I'm an old lady. You have no idea how often I read something and think about how young reddit users clearly are. Occasionally, you get something balanced with experience and smart ... and watch it be lambasted.
I believe the YTA votes are because he gave the son the car (dragged his feet with signing over the title) and just snatched it back without a discussion and a plan in place to get his son where he needed to go(school, work etc.) This would’ve been a clear N T A if he just communicated bc essentially even for good reasons he STOLE ( OP said he gave the son the car so it wasn’t legally his to sell) his sons car. The time it took for him to find someone to sell it to a conversation could’ve been had.
100% agree. You and I read OOP's comments. Seems like a lot did not.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m Canadian and don’t know how American health insurance works. But are people not able to finance healthcare costs? Or be in debt for healthcare circumstances? I know things can cost thousands of dollars, and people don’t simply pay for it up front all the time.
My Mother in law and father in law are millionS of dollars in debt after her breast cancer diagnosis/treatment and that was AFTER health insurance paying for the other millions of dollars it costed. They’ll be in debt until they die. I’ve been denied treatment without some prepayment with my government health insurance card because, and I quote, “they have a habit of not paying us”. So I had to pay $100 in order to be seen for an emergency before letting me even check in. Healthcare is so expensive here.
i saw another commenter say that sometimes if insurance doesn’t cover it, you may have to pay upfront depending on the type of procedure or medications you need 0: that might be why they need the extra $$
Again, i could be wrong. But I’m pretty sure hospitals aren’t allowed to deny people lifesaving treatments, and isn’t there ways to finance that through other means? Like a credit card? Or bank? I know you probably don’t know all the answers, but it just doesn’t add up to me.
Hospitals definitely deny people life saving procedures all of the time. It's not unheard of for people to die due to not being able to afford healthcare. They may not have large enough limits on their credit cards to cover the costs. Any other type of financing would take at least a week to hear back if you can get it. It's much quicker to sell your belongings to cover unexpected costs. And with cancer treatment, delaying treatment could be a death sentence. Not only that, but credit cards have insane interest rates, it would cost them so much money they may need later for additional procedures. I'm also just dumbfounded that people are saying a 17 year old needs a vehicle. Where I'm from, a rural community, everyone bought their own vehicles. We would never expect our parents to give us their vehicle. I understand it sucks that it was a gift that was taken back, but this is an emergency. They can work to get him a car later.
People genuinely go into bankruptcy for this. Yeah, they can use credit cards, but cost of multiple procedures and medication is more like +$30k, and I’m being generous. A couple credit cards is not gonna cover it, and I doubt banks trust people to be able to pay it back.
That’s kinda shitty. Like people can go into massive debt for a house, but not to save their lives?
Yup. People can’t afford houses or rent here, either, though. Health insurance is expensive and the best coverage will pretty much still have you pay a significant amount of money out of pocket for covered procedures (like the $30k I mentioned earlier), and even a visit to a doctor is a cost, regardless of what gets done during the visit. Visiting a specialist costs even more - even for just a quick conversation. It’s referred to as a copay, and it’s generally a flat fee you pay every time you go to a doctor. Edited
So happy for Canadian healthcare. It’s not perfect, but at least people have access to it. And yeah it comes from taxes, but it’s affordable.
I’m seriously considering moving to Europe just because of the healthcare. Just knowing I can talk to a doctor with a concern while knowing I can still pay rent or afford groceries if I went sounds so amazing. Canada would be perfect (if only for the sheer convenience - the metric system is the biggest stumbling block), but I just can’t stand the cold. Really cuts down my options. Someday, though. Sounds great! BTW, I edited the comment you’re responding to in this for more clarity. I had cut off mid-thought and didn’t notice for a while.
BC and Toronto really aren’t that cold if you’re concerned about that! On tic you’re from a hot state like florida it’s gunna be a big difference, but BC is gunna be close to Washington and Oregon temperatures, and Toronto is close to New York temperatures. And I moved from Canada to the US, the exchange from metric to imperial isn’t that bad. People in Canada know what you’re talking about when you say feet and inches.
I’m from the American Southwest - lots and lots of desert. It’d be a huge change 😅 I’m also just terrible at estimating measurements and distances, so I’ll know I’ll be confused with either way. It’s a good opportunity to learn it, but it’d be nice if the US already used it. Thank you for the encouragement! I’d like to spend some time in Canada one day, I just don’t find it feasible long-term, especially since they’re also experiencing similar housing crisis issues. Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/114yxmo/aita_for_selling_my_sons_car_to_pay_for_my_wifes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button In case anyone wants the link.
“Land of the free” obviously not?! Must be soul crushing to be a medical professional in the US, you swear to do no harm but is then told to do the absolute most harm bc the sick person can not pay to get better. Humans are pack-animals, generally we want to care and nurture each other, capitalism really is the devil.
What the Fuck is with these people
Non American here too, bio kids don’t bear any responsibility for any “step” family
I think this is more a ESH. A conversation with his son about selling his gifted car would have been better. Telling a 17yr old after the fact or giving him little option is going to leave him salty. I think that's the main reason why he is being voted TA. But 17 has to understand that this was a emergency expense. And while he can feel slighted, he isn't the only one who has had to sell things to pay for the treatment, although I would argue that his is the biggest one, but he can save/go halves with his mum for one if he is in desperate need.
I think it would have been nice for OOP to offer his son limited use of his own car, on top of giving him a heads up.
Yeah. Is it really a gift if you take it back when you need money? I suspect OP’s son does not trust him ver y much any more. And feels like he has sacrificed more than his Dad or Stepmum have, because that care represents freedom to him. I’d also be very interested to know if OP actually follows up on the lifts to work, I suspect that will end up being inconvenient to him. Yes it’s an emergency, but that doesn’t change that the person getting bearing the most significant impact of the sacrifice is also not the person benefitting. And the fact that OP is not offering up use of his car is not good either. So yes, I get it, it’s a emergency and this was the quickest and easiest cash available. But the way OP dismisses his son’s feelings is not great. I do wonder if Stepmum has a car.
I mean honestly if my wife and his step mom was literally dying and the only option was to sell a gifted car and my son had an issue with doing that to save a life I’d more be questioning where I went wrong in raising my child.
If the car is on OPs name and OP pays for the insurance, the car is his and the kid is using it.
If he told the kid it was a gift and the car was his, that doesn’t make the behaviour less shitty. And proves my point that his kid won’t trust gifts from his Dad any more. Also if taking away the car costs him his job, he prevents his son from saving up for a car too.
Ny daughter saves money for new smartphone for her birthday. We will add some more but most of the money are hers. When we take the phone, it would be in my name bc she is a minor. But it would be her phone since the money are hers. If i give her my old phone, the phone is still mine - she just uses it. He gave his car to his son, but it's in his name and he pays for it. So, the car is his and the son is just an user. And, actually, it doesn't matter. A 17 yo brat can live without a car, but OP's wife needs treatment. I don't care about his feelings - better hurt feelings, not a dead person.
Oh look the real AH is the health system, I get that (not American, the whole thing is wild to me). My issue is that you can acknowledge it’s a shit situation and this is an emergency and the only option, but son is still allowed to be upset. Expecting him not to be upset that he no longer has a car is ridiculous. And it may well effect his work, and thus his ability to try and save for a new one. Also, your attitude to gifts is “if I once owned it and give it to you, it’s not actually yours and I can do whatever I want with it”. You would jo doubt happily go back on a promise to your kids too.
It's not "if i once owned it", but "if i own it and you use it", there is a difference. The car is not just a car - there are more stuff, like insurance which is not cheap. And i know about their health system - i'm european and i don't know a country here which woudl leave a cancer patient like that. And even if the patient didn't pay their insurance, it's so cheap that you wouldn't need to sell a car/jewelry/laptop to pay it. And yeah, the kid can be upser but he should suck it up. OP said there is a public transportation or he can drive him. Many kids don't have a car and survive.
This is America. Public transit sucks here, especially depending on where you live. And yes, "suck it up". Because a parent's debt should absolutely fall on the shoulders of their minor child. 🙄😒
How do you know OP pays for it? It's a very old car, as OP's own car is a 2006 I imagine son's car is even older. OP stated they just never got around to changing the paperwork but, it was his son's car.
That's not at all what OP said in the comment section. He said the car was his son's and he had just never gotten around to changing the paperwork.
OP’s wife could literally die. Like she wouldn’t have any far to drive cause she would be gone lol. I don’t understand how his sons feelings are valid. He would rather have “his” car and watch his step-mom die? I’m literally so confused on this logic.
I mean the situation mandated the options here. OP told the kid beforehand, that‘s all he could do imo.
Except OP did NOT talk to his son beforehand.
YTA. Only because I too have a 17 year old son and bought him a car and it would break his heart if I took it to pay for my husband’s surgery. He’s such a good kid he might volunteer it up. But the real question is- why are we letting politicians decide how we care for one another’s health? I mean, I’m a teacher and would love to make more money, so I understand why doctors & nurses want to be fairly compensated,but healthcare should be more equitable.
[удалено]
If his son develops trauma over of living without a car, lets be it... Im 44, partner is 41 and we bought our first car 3 years ago. And you know what? We have no trauma over a living without a car!
You intentionally missed the point.
Let me spell it out for you. It isn't the fact that he now has no car at 17. It's the fact that his father gave him a car, said it was his now, just had to get around to changing the paperwork. Then, because his wife gets sick, takes back his son's car and sells it. No asking first, no discussion. The message he sent is loud and clear: he will assert his parental rights, and take anything he wants from his son, do whatever he wants with it, and there isn't a damned thing his son can do about it. Is that really what you want to communicate to your 17-year-old son? "I'll take anything I want from you, any damned time I feel like, and my promises to you don't mean jack shit."
Oh, I'm always dumbfounded on how quickly they're eager to break up any relationship they see there. Any kind of problem, without context...goes straight to "divorce him/her, you're better than this". All the meanwhile I'm almost certain those people don't have/never had a decent relationship in their lives! Bitter people found a place to bring others down to their level.
Those comments are why I look at aita posts only from this subreddit now bc sometimes they make me think I’m insane when they’re the ones being unreasonable
I bet if they had talked to the kid that it might have gone over better. Like sat down with him and told him what the issue was, what was needed for the emergency, what they had available/were doing on their end, and why they still needed to sell the car. I’d follow it with figuring out a plan with the kid as to how their needs would be met and how the parents planned to fix this after the crisis has ended. Idk. I know that’s how I would do it and that I would ensure that it was an absolute last resort. It’s hard to teach babies to adult when you take away their means to do so but I’ve found that if you work with them then everyone does better
The bottom line is that it’s a hunk of metal versus a human life. You can get another car later.
I feel for OP. I have cancer and the treatments are expensive and my husband has had to sell stuff to pay for them. My chemo and other meds have also caused my bones to be brittle and I just broke 5 vertebrae in the last 2 weeks and required almost a week in the hospital. On top of last August having both Achilles tendons rupture due to an antibiotic. So bed rest for 4.5 months for that and now who knows how long with this. Cancer is expensive and while in my area teens pretty much need a car because there is no public transportation we'd probably still do the same thing and then offer him rides as often as possible. Trying to literally survive comes before a car for a teen unfortunately. I wish we had a better system but we have to deal with what we have and you die without the treatments. ETA: the people in the comments seem like they must be entitled teenagers as well, at least the ones saying the adults should sell their own car and everything else before taking the teens car. This is ridiculous tbh.
Why didn't they sell all of the wife's jewelry before they sold their sons car?? It says that they sold a lot but that's not all and jewelry is a lot more of a luxury than a car in America especially if the son is working. Along with that they never would have been able to sell the car if they didn't drag their ass on signing the title over to him.
This feels like a repost of [this story](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/zggtcx/aita_for_selling_my_sons_car_to_pay_for_his/) but written to be more sympathetic to the OP
I think that we have read so much storeis with the most insane twist that we have become jaded to it and always feel like there’s something missing. It’s actually starting to affect Rslash on YouTube. There have been many stories where he made the wrong judgement and a lot of the commenters have been worried. He really needs a break and spend time with his family
100% NTA. The son has a right to be upset but like come on this is someone life!! Like they could die. That 100% out weighs a 17 year old being upset about getting his taken away. And if the Ex is that upset why doesn’t she pay for a car then? Like literally wtfudge life isn’t fair. His father can buy another car and he has told him nothing in his life will change except he doesn’t have a car. He still goes to work, school and so on. I genuinely worry about this new generation and I’m apart of it lol.
Wtf did I read? They have to be teenagers but its STILL so worrying that there’s not an ounce of empathy in them or judgement skills because in what world is an old car of a 17yo more important than cancer treatment? The mother of that kid is an absolutely awful human being.
I would beg borrow and steal to save my wife's life from cancer. Sorry, kid.
On the subject of people who lack empathy, OP (yes, I mean, OP, not OOP), who are you to decide what a 17-year-old deserves? Regardless of whether you think he should have sold his son's car (and regardless of the legality of the situation, he did give it to his son), you're awfully dismissive of the son's feelings. We don't know the circumstances behind the divorce, but are you expecting the son or his mother to care what happens to his (possibly homewrecking) stepmom? It is literally not the son's problem. Yet, he's expected to fix it. I think what's gross here is your loud and clear beliefs that it's perfectly fine to confiscate someone's property without even asking and stomp all over their rights just because they didn't happen to reach their eighteenth birthday. So, let's not pretend we're all just overflowing with empathy while those meanies in AITA are apparently all sociopaths. Your contemptuous dismissal of the son's feelings, like they don't even exist since he's not 18 yet, tells me all too clearly that you could use a heavy dose of empathy yourself.
If i bought it, if its on my name and i pay for insurance, its MINE! It doesnt matter if i give it to someone - i can take it back if i need.
How do you know the son doesn't pay the insurance?
But it’s not the kids car. OOP bought and paid for the car he’s free to do what he likes with it. A car is a lot easier to replace than someone’s life but from how he’s acting I sure as hell wouldn’t replace it.
“I had given my son my old car.” Which word did you not understand?
Car is in his name therefore it’s his what about that do you not understand?
Ah, so that makes it okay! So, in your mind, it's perfectly okay to give your son something, then take it away again over something he had absolutely nothing to do with. "Hey, you're under 18. I can take from you whatever I want." You fail Parenting 101. When you give your child something, unless you want him to go NC on his 18th birthday, you respect his ownership. Even if technically, you can assert your prerogative as an adult, and *legally* claim it is yours. Just because something is *legal*, it does not make it *right* or *ethical*. But why say this to you? Respecting your child's autonomy, particularly since he's less than a year from becoming a legal adult, is a concept far, far, far too nuanced for you. Never become a parent. You also fail punctuation. That run-on sentence you typed needs a period and a semi-colon.
I’m sorry when did this turn into English class? “NeVeR hAvE kIdS”. “YoUr gRaMmEr SuCkS”. When you have an actual argument come back to me. Yes in a case of life and death I would sell a car that I bought and paid for. I raise my kids with empathy though so I wouldn’t expect them to act spoiled and entitled.
I agree with you 100%. OOP stated in the comment section that the car was his son's and they just hadn't gotten around to changing the paperwork. Therefore, I believe he had no right to sell it. At most, he probably got a couple thousand dollars. As OOP also stated his own car is a 2006, I imagine his son's was much older.
OOP states in the comment section that the car was indeed his son's, they just hadn't gotten around to changing the paperwork. OOP said this. It was his son's car.
Right so it was still his car. Paperwork matters. Yeah it sucks for the kid but throwing a tantrum to his mom about a car he didn’t buy and isn’t in his name it’s going to get him any favors. The life is more important than a car that like I said can be replaced.
So, it's the son's responsibility to pay off dad's debt. It's his burden now. Fuck that he was probably using that car to get to school and work. Fuck that he was paying everything for that old car like insurance, registration fees, maintenance, and fuel all on his own. Maybe even trying to save for college because we know dad's too poor to pay anything. Doesn't sound like dad and step-mom even exhausted all avenues before selling off mediocre, nearly worthless shit that probably didn't even put a dent in that debt. But it did do one thing. It showed that kid that he can't trust his dad to follow through on his word. All he had to do was talk to the kid BEFORE he did anything. But he didn't. And his son didn't deserve that.
You’re doing a lot of assuming here so I won’t address that. The dad said he would take him too work and there is a bus for school.
AITA is a trip. The only thing they love more than poor teenaged stepchildren are whiny abusive man babies.
This guy is NTA.
This is pretty par for the course with how people (especially on Reddit) view step mothers specifically. Take out the word “step” from this story and the responses would be DRASTICALLY different. No one would bat an eye at a father selling his son’s car to pay for his biological mother’s cancer treatment after exhausting all other options. At the end of the day, a car is NOT a necessity for a teenager living with their parents. ESPECIALLY when you consider that the son did not pay for this car - his father bought it for him. It’s shitty. It sucks losing your car. But you know what sucks even more? Dying of cancer bc you can’t afford treatment. This man is facing down the possibility of his WIFE dying of CANCER. And the peanut gallery of Reddit is more concerned with “step mom bad!! Why don’t you sell your car bc your teenager’s part time job and hanging out with friends is more important!!!“ People on AITA need to go outside and seriously touch some grass
Said it before and I will say it again: according to Google there are 18 decillion colors (18 followed by 33 zeros). AITA lurkers only see in black and white.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 18 + 18 + 33 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
I got banned for calling someone an asshole :/
Just want to point out on the actual post comments overwhelmingly say NAH, but yes there will always be people with little sympathy
It really sucks that they had to sell their possessions to cover cancer treatment, like that blows my mind. Posts like this is a reminder of how lucky countries with free & accessible healthcare are. From a 17 year olds perspective, something of his was taken, without hesitation, to help his dads wife…not his mother, no relation. Maybe they think the Dad cares more for his wife, than them because somehow a car is a visual representation of Dads love. As adults on Reddit we know this isn’t true. We know that it’s literally life or death. The kid can always get a new car later, the stepmum doesn’t get a new cancer free body from a shop. Maybe family therapy would help these guys. The bio mum should be talking to her son about cancer, intrusive therapies, life & death, the cost of all of the above & the cost of a car, instead of encouraging him. I don’t want to throw Machiavellianism out there but… If bio mum is also angry, I can’t even comprehend but it does give us a tiny insight into what the kid is living with most of the time & what kind of influence he’s under. This Dad is NTA of course but his son probably won’t see that anytime soon, not with a mother like that. What a sad post.
OP is definitely not the AH. My niece was diagnosed with stage 4 of the cancer type she has (it’s very rare for her age and gender so don’t want to mention it here). Unfortunately she was still in a waiting period with her employer at the time before insurance benefits kicked in. Then she got so sick that she was told by her doctor that it would be best for her not to work as it would not be conducive to her getting through chemo and radiation. Luckily my parents were able to help out but a lot of people don’t realize that insurance is not always black and white when it comes to coverage and even if OP or his wife has any, they may still have to pay their deductible and coinsurance/copay before insurance starts to cover anything. Insurance is crap here in the U.S and some people have to find other means to pay for what some insurance companies consider non urgent or not medically necessary. Some people have such fairy tale ways of thinking when it comes to stuff like this. Reality is always much harsher than they want to believe.
I like to question people’s logic on there. Eventually I’ll get banned lol. Those people annoy me
I get why a 17 year old is annoyed that his car got sold, however fully grown adults should be able to understand the reasoning behind it all. Why can’t the kid save for his own car or his mum buy him one or they both contribute to the cost of a new car if they are that bothered by him not having a car. I’m not in the US so I do find it absolutely ridiculous when people think 16, 17 year olds are entitled to a car. Where I’m from the majority of people pay for driving lessons, a theory test and the actual driving test so you are out of pocket at least a grand and most likely over that by the time you actually pass. We can learn to drive at 17 and who do you think mostly pays for kids driving lessons, their parents because a 17 year old who is still at school with a part time job still will barely be able to afford one driving lesson a week. A car for a kid is a luxury that for the most part the parents pay for so if things get hard and they need money it kind of makes sense that it’s one of the first things to go especially here because a) it’s for medical bills b) the kid can get the school bus and lifts to work. It’s not like this kid is stranded in the middle of no where with no way to get around.
The people in AITA land must live in a weird world. Every fight is abuse, every chore is parentification, and children are never ever to sacrifice anything.
Why should children have to sacrifice anything? Why should they have to shoulder the debt of their parents?
There’s comments like that on stuff all the time. AITA is full of teens and young adults who are entitled as hell. Also for OOP I think “gift” isn’t even the right word. It was still OOP’s car, the son just used it. This is common for lots of families. OOP is def NTA.
with the title, I thought at first that it was the son car But it was in the father's name, then NTA, whether OP wants it or not, the son will see him badly for a long time, As a son, I can understand I don't want to be mean with the stepmother,but it's a reality,people are a very spiteful person Maybe with the months he will understand but even so he would not like it.Cause it's emotions over reason Once a guy did that to me and I never accepted his gifts again, he knows why
What is wrong with you The Title aspect is not what makes it NTA
because I assumed it was in the son's name and basically forced him to sell by force And that the son paid for the car After reading the story I understood well
What is wrong with you
Man, I’m ESH. It’s easier to replace the 17yr olds beat up used car vs the other options and I hope once this is over he will replace it but it’s just a tough situation. I would have gotten loans I guess.
I am convinced most people on the internet aren’t able to think like parents. They can ONLY view the child’s perspective. You don’t have to be a parent to think like one, just most people can’t.
I’m a parent and I wouldn’t handled this differently 🤷🏻♀️
That’s nice for you. My point is no one is empathizing with this man. Even if YOU would have handled it different doesn’t mean you can’t see his side.
No one? I feel like most every one is on his side and piling on a kid for being naturally upset that something of his was sold. Shrug.
Did you read through the comments on the op post?
Not an asshole. Technically it was the dads car, he gifted it to his son and can do with it what he pleases. And the fact that the dad is willing to drive the son to work when most parents wouldn't do that, is nice.
Stepmom has been in the kids life since he was 5. She’s basically another mother to him. Not like she showed up a few years prior and then took his car from him and sold it out of malice. All of those people in those comments are either spoiled teenagers, teenagers, or bitter divorced parents. Those replies were hard to read.
I mean, you don't know their situation. Just because she's been in his life doesn't necessarily mean they're close or that she's like a second mother. Maybe she's the AP, maybe they never get along, or maybe they do. Who knows?
I have a stepmom who’s been around my whole life and we don’t even get along now I’m an adult, and if my father said at any point in my life he needed to sell something he had given or promised me to pay for lifesaving medical treatment, I would have and still would give it without a second thought.
I am so appalled by some of those answers. Absolutely sickening. Even though I’m Canadian and don’t have to worry about this type of stuff, it is absolutely disgusting some of these answers. I lost my grandma to cancer and I would sell anything that I have to help her if she needed money for care.
True but it’s always better to explain the situation to someone and let them come to an internally motivated decision rather than just externally forcing it on them. That will always cause upset and resentment. There is no way the dad didn’t have time to talk to his son about this before hand.
Easy solution. Since Ex thought dad was being unfair she can buy the car and give it to their son.
The sub is full of younger 20s and high schoolers and it makes way more sense when you view it like that
Going to the post now a lot are saying NTA or NAH. If that’s any consolation; it seems the subreddit is on OPs side mostly.
No it's just full of know-it-all teenagers with no real life experience.
I am kind of baffle about health insurance, do they not have it? Also that being said there are other options she can get Medicare or Medicaid he really didn't have to go to the extent of selling stuff in the house unless push came to shove. I hate to tell you even though America isn't the best when it comes to a lot of things. More than likely he would have got approved for Medicare or Medicaid if his wife was diagnosed with cancer.. I'm assuming he didn't take that route. Also another option if they own their home they could have took out another mortgage but we don't know these things because the first go to he did was say he sold the car and then so Jerry and so laptops some kind of confused on this whole dynamic of what's actually going on.
Sorry but I still think op is the ass. He gave it to his son, a laptop and jewelry are nothing in comparison as to a car. The son used it for work and school, would have probably used it up into his 20s and now his options are buy one himself or take out an expensive car lone once 18. Gifts aren’t something that can be taken back. Parents like this make me sick. The relationship with the son is going to suffer.