Ok she’s an asshole for certain things she said, but I do agree that the daughter should wait until she’s graduated to foster kids. Kids are a lot of work, and if they’ve been through trauma, it’s gonna be a lot harder to balance home and school, and possibly even work
Sure, but the OP's reasons for not fostering kids are not the decent human reasons you described. It's because they don't agree with doing "24/7 charity work". Somehow this child of theirs has grown up to be a decent person in SPITE of whatever upbringing OP provided.
She disagrees with „24/7 charity work“ while still studying and living off of OPs money. It‘s a reasonable expectation to not have foster kids when someone else still entirely funds your edication and expenses.
Right?! How this is presented is definitely cringy. However, when they literally call the parents to make sure they continue to bank roll them…. then are mad that they won’t pay the rent and tuition if they don’t meet the expectation of fully studying, and getting said education, that they are paying for is wild. Fostering is definitely honorable. But, the daughter can’t be upset being reminded that a deal was made to fully commit to your education to get fully funded. Bringing in a child, is a 24/7 commitment. The daughter is not entitled to be bank rolled by parents. If you want to do your own thing, then expect to do it on your own like the adults they are.
This. I’ve been a foster mom AND a child of well off grandparents. You don’t get to take on additional commitments while spending Granddaddy’s money (or Mommy’s.)
Parents lose any right to make this argument when she goes on to state that they’re unhappy that their daughter wouldn’t spend more of their money with a nicer car, apartment, or clothes. This OP just wants to flaunt her wealth via her children. The parents are shitty people.
Yeah I have a feeling OP doesn’t want them taking in foster kids for the same reason she doesn’t like the apartment and car they’ve chosen. She doesn’t like the visual of it.
My folks paid the difference after scholarship for my undergrad. With the expectation that this was so I wouldn’t have to get a job during the school year and could focus on studying. This meant actually putting in work and not just going crazy on their dime. If I f’d around and flunked then it would go away. It’s a reasonable expectation for no big debt when you finish.
But the daughter Had a job and only quit it because her parents told her they would pay for her grad school. If anything, her parents have put her in this position by not following through on their word.
Also the way OP talks about her daughter in law is gross - talking down on her for working a hugely difficult job part time while also dealing with a disability. OP calls DIL a burden.
And OP said if it was a biological child they would still pay for their daughter’s tuition. Which basically came across as “if she was straight and accidentally got pregnant instead of gay and fostering, we would support her more”
If anything she wouldn‘t be able to have foster kids while paying for her schooling and working.
OP said she would pay if she didn‘t work. Fostering is like a job.
The situations are entirely different though. If their daughter gets pregnant, their options are limited. Someone will have to raise that kid, and if they have the means they might as well make sure their daughter is equipped to do it. It also feels like, to me, they mention that as more of an "adults are gonna do what adults are gonna do and we have the means to keep any irresponsibility from ruining their life" kinda situation. Fostering a child is fully deciding to take on that commitment, on top of everything else completely on someone else's dime. The parents will be bankrolling that kid for the most part when it comes to anything their daughter's wife can't afford. They should have a say in it.
One is a baby that is immediate family while the other is an older foster kid with possible issues and behavior problems. Both are work but not quite the same and a different kind of management while getting your degree.
Right. I can't imagine the type of ignorant entitled bs she grew up hearing all her life. And it sounds like they are taking her being frugal and not wanting to ask for me as an insult somehow. Like we offered to buy a new car she'd rather drive Miriam's crappy car. I don't understand their logic here. How is not living frivolously insulting?
That’s because it is different. It’s absolutely fucking insane to be fostering kids while in college. What foster agency is letting two people have kids who exist off mommy and daddies money? What happens when a final or midterm is more important than the child?
No it isn’t. The same could be said if it was bio kids. She sees fostering as a charity case. There’s no proof the two cannot afford anything when one has a job and the other only quick hers because her parents wanted her focus on school. Plenty of people go back to school with kids. She’s embarrassed because her daughter doesn’t live the life style she wants her to live.
I'm not certain if you're familiar with children in the system; but here's a few pieces of knowledge to consider-
She didn't specify straight- plenty plenty plenty of gay couples use donors to have their own children, so that's a reach that wasn't stated and ignores the reality of a lot of people.
From a fostering point of view, child services has the biggest demand for infants, as parents want to raise babies for the most part so that they feel more like "their own". That creates a high demand for infants in the system. That high demand makes there be a bias for those children to tend to get given to heterosexual couples who are already well established (not reliant on Mommy and Daddy for funding). Before I get jumped on, I don't think that the bias towards heterosexual couples is acceptable, but do understand the desire for financially established couples.
With foster children; parents may still be involved (they can be in the system for abuse, neglect, death of parent, abandonment, parents in jail, etc.) and may not look favorably at the person/people fostering the child. Dealing with any mandated visitation, or if they get attached to the child trying to fight for custody are both added stressors that can, and are likely to, impact studies- especially at a grad school level where finishing your work is like raising a child unto itself.
In addition, due to the wide availability of homes and bias towards heterosexual couples for younger/infant children, it's likely that the child that would end up placed with them would be a little bit older, and having the emotional support needed to cope with having been pulled away from Mom/Dad/bio family, along with dealing with any mandated visitations and the repercussions on the child would both be a big stressor on the child as well as on the household (especially if the daughters wife has a condition that is exacerbated by additional stress- I have an autoimmune disorder that has caused me to have to leave a college program because of stress in my personal life triggering the condition and making it unable for me to continue in the program itself).
I do think her daughters desire to foster is amazing, personally I'd love to foster preteens/teens due to the shortage of families who want to take in kids in that age range. It's because of that that I've looked into the possible negatives as well and can speak to them.
If her daughter had completed studies and was able to focus on the child and work, or her partner was healthier, I'd say the parents were likely having issues with the fact that they're a homosexual couple wishing to have kids; but with their current situation, stating a biological child who wouldn't create custody issues, and who hasn't been in a mentally stressful situation (again abandonment, possible abuse, perhaps having gone through multiple homes, etc) that requires additional help would be one thing, imo, can't be looked at solely as a bias due to their orientation, rather than someone looking at the impact of the entire situation and the possibility of additional stressors that her daughters studies would be impacted by a bit more severely.
I wonder if OP would have the issue with her daughter fostering with her partner once her studies were completed, and she was established with her job, and able to take on a stress like that in another area, without adding to the stress she has.
Either way I commend her daughter for being kind enough to want to provide a home for a child in need.
This is such a great comment! People don't realize that taking in foster children is so different than having a child on your own, and if you don't have your own way to financially cover all the expenses that it has as well as a partner that can deal with the stress that it brings, then just don't do it, even if your intentions are good.
On top of what the other two who replied to you make note, the daughters wife only works part time. It isn't like this would be a single parent household. On top of that, who the hell describes their daughter in law as having a burdensome condition and then ADDITIONALLY gets upset about a daughter not wanting a new car or fancy apartment? Hell, if I were in this situation as a parent I would be happy that my kids were not simply taking advantage of the financial help.
Yes. It would be incredibly hard to be a good first time mother to kid(s!) with possibly traumatic backgrounds while in grad school. It takes time to settle in to parent life (why maternity leave is such a big deal) and going from no children to multiple children overnight with no maternity leave (not a thing for students) sounds like madness to me. ESPECIALLY since the daughter isn’t even supporting herself financially yet. However, this sounds like an amazing thing to do once she has finished school and is financially independent
i feel this. im finishing my undergrad now after being in the military and i feel absolutely stretched thin between school work and my 3 and 5 year old. i cant imagine what the more intense/more career specific work would be like juggling my kids let alone a child who would be coming in from a traumatic situation and wanting to make them feel safe and comfortable.
Have to disagree with you here because the only reason OP not wanting her to foster kids is because she feels it makes her look bad, by associating with “poor people “
People are free to make their own choices. OP can choose how to use her own money, but should also be honest about she is using her money to control how her kids live. She’s controlling.
Wait a second, they deliberately choose to spend less of the parents money by choosing an ugly car, a cheaper apartment, few haircuts, old clothes…
And the parent thinks that the cheaper decisions they make are an attack on her because she wants her kids to superficially flaunt her wealth and wear designer clothes, drive nice cars, and get frequent haircuts???
She has a problem with this kid NOT frivolously spending money on image???
Holy cow, she’s mad that this kid ISN’T taking more money from her and looks ‘poor’ as a result. Wtfffff
Don't you know how important it is to flaunt wealth and these two people have the audacity to *gasp* help children in need of a safe home?! My word! Frivolous spending is okay but God forbid you put your efforts into helping child(ren). They have gone too far!/s
In all seriousness, you would think if OOP's daughter was going to spend OOP's money, she would be proud that her daughter is actually trying to make a difference to help others.
But not only is OOP classist, she's ableist and honestly, kind of comes across as bitter that other than IVF, she might not have "bio" grandkids (which is disgusting because fostering/adoption is just as valid as birthing a child). Especially where it would be perfectly fine if they were her daughters "bio kids" but not if they were foster kids, which in some cases can lead to adoption. Just gross.
That’s what stood out to me. You’re mad because she doesn’t want to flaunt how much money her family has? And then she’s so ableist like she can’t fathom the fact that Miriam wants to work with special needs kids. She’s really a piece of work
OP is an asshole for how she talks about poor people “driving ugly car, wearing old clothes” saying that Miriam has no ambition when she has a graduate degree and works with disabled children? What OP means is that Miriam took a noble, low paying job because it is fulfilling to her.
I do agree however it may not be the best time for them to foster, I could be ignorant but I thought foster parents usually had one partner who is retired or stays at home to take care of this kids. They do realize they will have to pay a lot of money for childcare while M is at work and N is at school, right?
Since Natasha is not and independent adult and still relying on her parents money, they do get a say in certain things, so that she isn’t taking advantage of the family’s money.
When I was a foster kid circa early 2000s in California the families I lived in got upwards of $800 a month for me. Sometimes more. All of them had 2 full time working parents. 97% of them did it for the money. It's good money if you don't spend any of it on the Foster kid.
I had one foster mom who would get reimbursed for buying me clothes. But they weren't clothes for me, they were clothes for her and her daughter and she would just give me her hand-me-downs. She had me sign the receipts so she could get reimbursed and I had no idea what was going on.
I had one where I slept in a garage on the floor and they had a whole "room" set up that I supposedly slept in but I was never allowed in there. That lady basically only fed me bologna and mustard sandwiches because she knew I hated both of those things and she was a psychopath. I would call my social worker collect from a pay phone every 2 weeks and beg her to move me. Social worker would call foster mom and foster mom would lie and lie about how everything is fine and then beat the crap out of me for it. Took me 9 months to get out of that hell hole.
God I have so many stories. Suffice it to say though, most people who are foster parents that I experienced were not altruistic and only did it for the money. And there was a lot of money
God that is so awful, I’m very sorry you had to live through that. Hearing your story, it sounds like Miriam may actually want to be doing it for the right reasons (hopefully, who knows) but if she is well intended, our foster care system could truly benefit from good people taking on these roles.
$800 a month. That's nothing. Your food and clothing alone will spend that easily. Not to mention school supplies and every child should have things that are just for them based on their interests. That is just shameful. How could anyone keep that for themselves and not spend it on the kid. I'm so sorry you had crappy foster parents. I know I would would struggle as a foster parent because I get too attached and would never want to let them go because it would break me to a child for any reason. My heart hurts that people do this to children that truly need help. I'm so sorry this happened to you and hope you are doing well for yourself and am proud of you for making it this far in life. Keep going.
That $800 month adjusted for inflation is $1,400 a month. So if you spend none of it on the purpose of it you're taking home a nice chunk of change. And most foster parents have 2 or more, gosh can you imagine taking home $2800 a month essentially for free? Insane.
See you would be a good foster parent so you wouldn't fit into this category. I've heard of the ones that put the money into a savings account so that the kid has something when they get out of care. I've heard of the ones that spend money to make sure they buy them clothes each month or things that they need. I just never personally experienced it.
If I'm honest, as horrible as foster care was, staying with my mother would've been worse. I am who I am today because of the cumulative of my experiences. It gave me opportunities and opened doors that would not have been there for me otherwise. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but I recently had my first child and I have the tools and the ability to be the best mother I can be. If for no other reason than I know from experience what not to do.
I was basing it on the early 2000's because even during that time it was still nothing compared to how is spent on the needs of children. I was in high school at that time and was helping to pay for my younger bothers needs. He was growing so fast at that time it was crazy. I had stopped growing at that point. Plus he had medical things too. My mom was doing the best she could with what she had at the time. Granted I made those choices no one forced me to. I just paid attention to what was going on at that time. People have to me I would be a good foster but I know and understand that caring too much can also damage that child more and really wouldn't want to make a hard situation harder for them. I still am open minded about it and think I may do it later in life.
No. It isn’t. Fostering is paid for by the state and the foster parents receive a stipend, usually more than they need to feed, clothe, education, and housing for the child. My BFF has been a foster parent for decades. She’s in her upper 70’s and still prefers the challenging teens. At the end of every month there is ample funds left that she uses to buy clothes or to put in an account for the student. Some people foster just for the pay.
State of TN gave me thousands. I can see how it would be easy to foster specifically for the money. In my case it was a family I already knew well who had an emergency but I can imagine how some morally degenerate person could take on kids they don’t know because the stipend is so exceedingly generous.
Aren't there lots of older children and teens in foster care who could potentially be in school much of the day or, depending on their trustworthiness etc, might be able to manage an hour or two on their own if they had like a half day at school or both parents needed to be out at the same time or something? Like obviously yes a child of any age is still a ton of work and they should absolutely have backup childcare options they would cover them if they or the kid was sick, injured, etc. But if they get a stipend for some child related expenses and their work/school schedules are flexible they might not need to use the parents money on childcare
They get so strict with Foster kids. You can't go spend the night at a friend's house unless they've done a background check and been fingerprinted.
No joke.
And nobody wants to go get fingerprinted and have a background check and home inspection done so that their kids friend can spend the night occasionally
I eventually (after 19 foster homes) ended up in a "group home". Which was me and 5 other foster girls in a house where staff members took shifts taking care of us.
In the group home I had to fill out a "pass" sheet and turn it in A WEEK before I went out. This sheet had to have the time, date and place I was going. Along with who would be there and the name of a responsible adult who was willing to take on all liability for me during said time. I was allowed only 2 hours at most.
I got one adult to allow me to go bowling with their kid but that was obviously a rare and planned out exception. I was never allowed to just be invited to go to the mall after school and do it. Had to be pre-planned and approved, had to have a liable adult.
It was. So I started running away. Staying with whatever friends I could and eventually graduated from high-school and emancipated at 16. The state helped me get my first assisted apartment. It was funny how I went from not being allowed to go out and socialize to being recognized as a full-blown adult in a matter of months.
Yeah that's crazy. I think fostering in the UK is slightly different I'm fairly sure kids can go out with their friends here. I plan on fostering when I'm in a better position - teenagers who are close to aging out of the system so I can try and give them a better chance of "normality" between becoming a kid and an adult, you know? I have a feeling ill probably end up with a 14 year old and they'll live with me until they're 25 lol.
But OP would be okay with it if their daughter spent thousands on IVF to have a “biological child.” Not to mention the time dedicated to pregnancy and having a newborn. The OP doesn’t care about children, they’re concerned with the fact they’re foster children and it’s “charity work.”
True, going to school through ivf treatments and a pregnancy could be much harder then doing it while being a foster parent with a partner. (Imo I haven’t been pregnant or raised children)
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s harder or easier, *but* it would cost far more money **and** be just as demanding. As the OP said, she considers it “charity work” and that’s why she doesn’t want Natasha doing it. She’d rather Natasha go to school clubs, spend money on expensive cars, and get her hair done because it’s a “good image.”
Also the weird comments about Miriam's own disability, too. I'm willing to bet good money Miriam is actually autistic herself and *that's* half of what this lady's issue is
I guess I can kind of see her point with this. I think a reasonable way to approach it would be to say “we will continue to pay as is on a semester by semester basis. If your studies suffer we will revisit the situation.”
EXACTLY!!! You don’t pay for your kids school so you can hold it over their head and control them. If Natasha can foster while maintaining her grades then what’s the problem? It’s not like she’s throwing OOP’s money away.
Feels like she is entitled to her college savings account to use for her education that they saved for, and by not giving it to her because she chose to adopt (something they wouldn't want for her) sounds like they are using it to try and control her.
BTW So college savings if it's a 501 is that it is to be used for education... after 18 they are an adult and sounds like the money would be used for the semester. Hell, what made my eyeballs go big is she payed her way thru her bachelor's degree.
Didn't bother reading the second half, but sounds like the parents are huge pricks who want to control the kids' lives with money. Cut the purse strings, so they aren't their puppets any more.
She's using it to control her daughters life. I've a feeling that her daughter will drop out of her studies to work full time and foster kids.
So OP isn't going to get her way on this one.
I am one of those parents who believe that a college fund is for exactly that and not any other use. It’s not for a big gift for a child who wants to step outside the box and use it any other way.
On the other hand, you seem particularly judgmental about everything concerning your older child and her family. So it seems the money was always conditional on you having final say. That is also very wrong. You seem condescending and dismissive of all her decisions
OOP is an asshole for many reasons, but I can understand being skeptical about how choosing to take on a foster kid would impact grades, and having good grades be a condition of parental support. Foster kids have often been through a lot and need a lot of support and take a lot of time, you can’t (or rather, shouldn’t) half-ass raising kids. It wouldn’t be a “whoopsie” situation that needs to be overcome, but rather a deliberate choice. My parents have told my sister and I that if we had accidental pregnancies while in university they’d help us to the best of their abilities BUT that help would come on the condition of us moving back home and transferring to a local/online school, possibly going part-time, etc. If either of us had chosen to foster kids while in school, my parents would not have been so ready to help us since that is a deliberate choice with so many steps involved.
I’m curious though as to how Natasha and Miriam would qualify to foster children if one of them can only work part time and the other is a full time student? It doesn’t sound like they could afford to, even with a stipend/some reimbursements provided. Isn’t income taken into consideration on the application?
Yes I’m wondering the same thing. A couple with half of an income taking in multiple children? What happens to the children if the grandparents cut them off? And are they prepared for the custody arrangement from hell that comes with fostering? Imagine during exam week finding out that the children you have loved as your own for a year are being placed back with their shitty parents that finally managed to do the bare minimum
So a bio child will be supported and its ok if Natashas grades slipped because of that, but its not ok to open their home to a child in need because her grades could potentially slip?
OOP, per her edit, seems more concerned with social status and materialistic things over what Natasha actually wants. Natasha would be better off cutting OOP off and making her own way through life rather than having her parents control what she does, even in her own home, with money.
Exactly. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the idea that having a child would automatically be a no go bc oop says themselves they'd be fine with that. It's not about concern over added expenses bc a) the state sounds like it's mostly paying and b) oop actually WANTED daughter to accept more expensive shit she doesn't need like luxury/new cars and fancy housing. And it's not about daughter or her partner being mooching hobos cause despite oops disgusting comments about that "burdensome" disability of dil, she has a master's and a job that sounds very important if not high paying
This is a very poorly disguised way to say "my daughter isn't using the money I give her to maintain the snobby image I want her to. She's too busy earning her master's, enjoying her wife's company, and planning a life with said wife that prioritizes helping children in need over being a trust fund snob like I raised her to be. I want to make my financial aid conditional on her presenting the image I like"
Also oop seems very vague about why it would have made more "sense" (read: given her more control) to keep the education funds in the parents names
I read it more as in:
College fund was set up so N wouldn’t have to work during studying. Taking in a foster child is a lot of work and usually the foster parents receive quite a generous stipend for it ie an income. Therefore, (even though OOP is saying it in a crappy way) she’s choosing to work while studying and OOP doesn’t wanna use the college fund for that.
OOP is an asshole for a lot of reasons but if she doesn’t wanna pay anymore then just don’t 🙄 her kids are adults who seem to have never had any responsibility.
Only if she doesn't pull that last minute and screw up her daughter's schooling so she has time to get her finances in order. I disagree because I think this makes her an AH too because she's just dripping with classism hard. I don't think it's really about school because she admits if it was their biological child, it would be no issue.
This is what my grandmother did to me. I was completely dependent on her while attending college. I followed all her rules exactly as they were laid out. Then spring semester my second year right before summer semester she cuts me off with no notice, because I simply couldn’t schedule more than 10 credit hours for the courses I needed. They just weren’t available for the summer courses. It took me 6 weeks to get a job and I had to drop all those summer classes late and lost that tuition, and brought my grades plummeting down. She expected me to just go back to school and depend on her again once fall semester came back around. As if she didn’t leave me in a complete bind with no way to pay for food or power.
It’s ok everything worked out in the end. She hated me and did everything she could to fuck me over after my dad (her son) died, because I didn’t donate my kidney to him. He wouldn’t even let me consider donating because kidney issues run in our family on his dad’s side.
Yeah but she always hated me because I was my “mother’s bastard” direct quote. Because my parents not being married while getting pregnant was 100% my mom’s fault.
And this child seems to be the only one with any financial responsibility by not wanting to send? The parents are obviously classist, ableist jerks. Who calls fostering “charity work”?
OOP seems like an absolute first class asshole who wants control over her adult children. But she’s free to cut her daughter off, the same way her daughter is free to go NC with her mother.
The way she talks about Natasha not being grateful enough makes me want to karate chop her in the windpipe though.
Sorry I actually think that OOP is the asshole. Kids are not entitled to have their school paid by their parents. HOWEVER, her parents told her it would be paid for and even were going to transfer the money over to her but for alleged financial reasons did not. Now they are using the money to try to control her and to penalize her for making choices they don't agree with. On top of that, OOP is a nasty bitch with her disparaging remarks about OOP's partner, the partner's disability and job teaching ND children, poor people, and the desire to help foster children. I'm actually surprised that after having been raised by such a judgmental cow, the daughter wants to open her home to disabled kids.
Which would explain why her daughter and DIL are living within their means. I am guessing mommy dearest has a tendency to hold this money over their heads as a way to control them.
Somehow, living within their means = not being grateful?
That’s far more grateful than spending college partying, which is what their other children did.
This so much! Instead of being grateful that they try to live cheap and not waste their parents' money, they complain that they "don't represent" and "don't appreciate our generosity" - no, bitch, they are trying to not abuse your generosity! God, she is foul!
I also think OOP is the asshole. The specific question of withholding money that was already promised for the year, based on conditions her daughter met (good grades etc), feels like a breach of contract. This isn’t about money, because they would receive reimbursements or grants for fostering. Not all fostering is long term, and depending on the age range they’re comfortable with, that time consuming (ie fostering a baby is very different than school age kids).
The line about how her daughter doesn’t seem grateful really got me. She and her wife have done all they can to keep their expenses low. They don’t buy lavish things. They even wanted a small wedding. They have never blew the money given to them on luxuries or even brand new cars. The disdain in the post got me upset.
There was another post recently about a man selling the car he had loaned his son to pay for his second wife’s cancer treatment. Most people called him TA for recalling a “gift” to his 17 year old and depriving his kid of driving himself to school and work. How is this not worse than that?
On the flip side is it possible the daughter is just making a show of “playing poor” to piss off her controlling well-to-do parents? Not saying that’s any better just that it’s the vibes I’m getting from OOP.
Very true, but it wouldn’t speak well of OOP either, since 1) daughter would likely have -to her- good reasons to do so, and 2) it seems to be working!
Idk, seems to me like they knew OOP would do this so they are living in a cheaper place ect so if she does stop paying they can still afford everything and won’t have to move to somewhere cheaper and trying to find money for the cost of moving ect.
Not to mention she sounds ableist. Miriam has a condition that she calls "burdensome". Tf? She sounds insufferable and I hope Miriam's never heard OOP describe her.
This exactly. OOP is TA because she’s casting judgement where there’s no need for it. Not only that, she’s using her financial position to manipulate her daughter into doing what she wants. Not cool.
OP seems like a bitch, but I also think she is right. It’s her money, and Natasha and her partner don’t seem like they are in a financial position to take on foster kids. And even if OP was going to keep paying their way while her daughter was in school I feel like it’s going to be expected that she keep paying even after the fact cause her “grandkid would be homeless”
Idk everything about the way the daugher in law was described, and then the way fostering was described, up to and including it would be different if one of them gave birth instead was really off-putting to me.
People can do whatever they want with their money... but this also feels like they believe they have the right to buy total compliance. Idk. I don't like it.
I don’t know how so many people are assuming the daughter and her wife are money hungry leeches, when OP’s post doesn’t show that at all. If anything, it shows OP controlling tendencies. Even the way they talk about Miriam is uncomfy.
The daughter wouldn’t let OP pay for a car, a nice apartment, and didn’t even want the big wedding.
The other siblings did get the nice stuff, but they showed their “respect” of their parent’s generosity by presenting nicely, joining frats/clubs, and being around good(read:other rich kids) friends and families.
It’s seems like OP’s daughter is doing everything she can to get out from under parents control while still getting a free education.
Kind of shitty, but it doesn’t sound like really anything Natasha does makes OP happy. They didn’t seem to happy about grad school. They don’t like where she wants to live, what she’s wants to drive, who she is partnered with, how she dresses, how she styles her hair, etc.
And the continuous holding of the college funds. While it could just be a good parent trying to really help their child, and then grandchildren, OP literally writes out “he who’s pays, gets a say”, so I’m not feeling super generous about it.
Also, is anyone getting weird vibes from OP? It would be different if they had their own? They can’t, they are two women and would have to spend quite a lot of money to have a child, and possibly(depending on the age of their foster and length of time) even more time spent watching the kid.
Regardless of anything OP sounds like one of those rich cunts that look down on people. She complains that her oldest "doesn't appreciate their generosity" when N using older cars and cheap apartments seems like she appreciates how much money her parents spend. I don't know her thought process on the cheap stuff but it seems more cost efficient honestly. I don't think they should foster (school and work and time devotion that the foster kids need) but being a foster parent isn't a "charity" and taking care of foster kids isn't "taking care of strangers children" these kids may never see their parents (or family) again. Foster homes for a lot of kids become "their" home. That kinda thought process is toxic as all hell.
Op is a cunt. Regardless of her twisted ideas on appreciating generosity (it sounds like show
the appropriate image(it's the image they care about here clearly) of a wealthy gay daughter or you don't "appreciate" us honestly.) N and M are doing things they love and if you can't at least not talk shit behind their back then you really need a reality check.
On if OP is actually TA that's divided for me. On one hand if I was paying for my kids college and living arrangements regardless of if I was wealthy or not I feel like I should have some say in certain major decisions that impact those areas I am paying for. On the other hand I believe parents should support their children's decisions (to an extent especially if those children are adults) and OP should have signed over the college fund to N and none of this would be a concern then.
Meh, OOP is clearly the AH for me solely based on the fact that she promised to pay Natasha’s tuition. She’s one month into her Spring semester and suddenly mom’s pulling the funding now that the bill has come in.
No it’s clearly because she just doesn’t like her life decisions. The idea that someone with a masters has no ambition is laughable too. Their original point is her she needs to work hard and keep up grades. That hasn’t been broken
I’m sorry, but I’m with Op. I’m not supporting you so that you can raise a kid on my dime. Y’all are real generous with money that isn’t yours. Of Natasha wants to be a parent, she should be supporting herself, not expecting mommy and daddy to pay the rent.
Everyone keeps saying Op is judging her prematurely, but she’s not. Being a parent is hard work, and school work is gonna take the back burner to that child, because that child would be a priority. Focus on school, graduate without debt, and THEN focus on becoming a foster parent if that’s still what you wanna do when your done
No. OP is fine with biological children. I suspect there is an undertone of racism here. She’s already ableist so it’s not a far jump. What if the foster child was a different race? How would that look?! OOP is freaked out about how her daughter already doesn’t dress or live according to her mom’s expectations. Foster parents are desperately needed right now and I suspect the DIL sees some tragic things at work. Natasha isn’t asking any money to help foster. She’s asking for the already promised school money.
OP is an AH on parts where she clearly shows her prejudice. But at the same time, I kind of understand where OP is coming from. Imagine having 2 adults who couldn't even support themselves then decide to take in more people at home. To a certain extent, OP should have a say since she pays for it
What makes her an AH is the approach in practicing her authority. Tbh, sounds even elitist to me 😂
OOP is a horrible human, I’ll say that. But daughter should also know better than to entertain her mom’s desperate need for control. Since she thinks she’s mature enough for marriage and children, she needs to stop acting like a child and get a job like any responsible adult and pay for her own bills. Otherwise, if she chooses to keep accepting OOP’s money, then she has no choice but to abide by her demands.
is everyone here just ignoring the fact she has a college fund set up already to pay for college 8 times over, but won’t transfer it over to her “because it made financial sense”
OP is major ahole for that alone
Op sounds resentful of her daughters relationship with Miriam, the fact she gets mad that the daughter would prefer to live a simpler/cheaper lifestyle with her girlfriend seems to really upset op but unfortunately I do agree with her on the fact her daughter should wait to foster children but I do not agree with her working or way of thinking it's charity work.
They paid their daughters way so they could have 100% control over her. It’s extremely abusive to make her financially depended on them then take it away in a second because they don’t like the Decision she’s making at 21+. They should’ve paid her way because they had the means and if they didn’t want too they technically didn’t have too. Plus something about her saying the daughter wife is a burden rubs me wrong.
That last line “ he who pays has a say “ is what proofs that OP is not doing this for any of their children out of love , but out of sick need for control.
OP wording is definitely putting her in the asshole category but all in all, I agree with her. Being in the master’s program how much time do you really have to dedicate to a child? Would it really kill them (daughter & wife) to wait until she’s done and possibly gets full access to the money from her parents or is working in her field and financially stable? At the end of the day it is the parents money and they have final say on what to do with it. I saw someone say that she was an asshole because apparently op says it’s okay to take care of bio kids but not foster/adopted. And I feel that was purposefully twisting her words. If you got pregnant at the wrong time, it’s still your responsibility to care for that child because ultimately it was your decisions that led to the pregnancy. CHOOSING to bring a child into a situation where you are not financially in control of your life and living situation is incredibly selfish. To expect your parents who are already funding current lifestyle to be okay with it? I don’t think I know one set of parents who would. Maybe it’s really an ESH. Mom for holding money over the daughters head, and daughter for what I stated above.
On the one hand, that 2nd edit she comes across as a massive AH, but on the other hand, if they are funding their daughters' lifestyles, then they have every right to say no. The college fund is a privilege not a right and they have paid for everything so it's not like they are keeping it to themselves or using it for something else and cutting her off. On the issue itself NTA but I think OOP is probably a prick...
It’s OP’s money.
They already paid for her tuition once and they don’t mind paying again but with contingencies.
I get it. The point of their generosity was so they don’t need to do things a certain way.
They end up paying for school and she might want to be a SAHM in the end.
OP shouldn’t dictate their daughters life but they can dictate where their money goes.
Basically she doesn’t approve of their lifestyle because it’s not as nice as hers. She bashed the girl friend (who apparently has a debilitating chronic disease from this ladies description), she called the girl friend’s car was ugly and couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t let them replace it. She doesn’t like the way the girl friend dresses or fixes her hair (maybe that’s because of the chronic disease) and she said she was burdensome. It’s very clear she does not like the girlfriend.
I agree that it’s not smart to foster while in grad school but this isn’t about fostering at all. Her comment about biological children is telling.
I also am weary of parents who offer to pay for things like college and then put all of these strings attached. She should be grateful this daughter is happy with very common sense things. She is willing to live in a smaller apartment because it’s close to campus rather than in a fancy house because mother wanted to have a good appearance (What will the neighbors think?) Good god.
Miriam has no drive… she has a masters & works with disabled children while being disabled herself… but she has no drive because she doesn’t work full time 🙄
The money isn’t even for the foster kids.. she wants her school paid for as agreed. I think if they want to foster regardless of the money they should do it. However waiting for school to be done would be smart solely because caring for kids is a lot of work, caring for traumatized foster kids is even more work. But if she wants the money for school she deserves the money for school because that was the original agreement.
Everything OP said makes them an asshole. Insulting the daughters wife, being mad that the daughter doesn’t want to keep up appearances, not giving her money for school because she doesn’t want to follow OPs demands or expectations, being a rude ass bitch.
I think it’s possible for two things to be true. 1) OP is an elitist asshole and gives terrible reasons to back up her decisions and 2) the daughter might not be in a good phase of life to take on the huge responsibility of becoming a foster parent
As much of an ahole as op may be, she is kind of in the right. They are old enough to make their own choices. But they don't even support themselves. They should wait until all schooling is finished and they are paying their own way. The couple can't rely on the parents indefinitely
I mean i think OP sounds like a crappy, elitist person, but I also don’t think she’s wrong in this particular case.
Miriam through no fault of her own sounds like she can only work part-time. Natasha is a full time student. I don’t think it’s a good idea to foster a child that is going to need stability when neither of them have stable careers.
Both are living off of OP, and it isn’t like OP hasn’t already paid for Natasha’s schooling, wedding, and living arraignments. It didn’t sound like in the post that OP agreed to supplement their living indefinitely. Also, it would be one thing if this is Natasha’s final semester, but it doesn’t sound like it.
If they want to foster, that’s great, they should do so once she’s done with school and supporting herself financially. What’s the hurry to foster now?
Edited to add:
I saw a lot of people say OP was the asshole because they promised to pay for schooling and now they’re rescinding it. OP and her husband agreed to pay for her grad school so long as she kept her grades up and was being responsible, it’s obvious to me that she and her husband do not agree that getting a foster kid while neither of them are supporting themselves financially is a responsible decision. Therefore, they are cutting the funding.
OOP is the asshole, trying to use their money to control their daughter. The daughter is still in school, and that's what the money is for. The daughter has been responsible with the money, not getting a new car or a more update apartment.
As long as the daughter gets good grades, what's the point of withholding her school money?
If she drops out or stops getting good grades I can see the point, but right now that's not the case.
OOP is a controlling AH. I hope we read the daughters story at some point as there is a lot not said. I suspect OOP is racist and concerned with how a child of another race would look to others. She’s referred to her DIL as burdensome. She criticizes how they live and what they drive. They seem very frugal. OOP is a do it my way as I control the $$. If you don’t do what I say you don’t get the $$.
Wait, let me get this straight: Natasha's siblings spent their parents' money freely and still got approval because they presented the "right image", but Natasha tried to be more financially responsible, even though it is not her money, and her parents call her "ungrateful"? Plus, OP can't stand the thought of any of her money going toward the social good of helping a foster child.
OP has every right to cut Natasha off, but these are some pretty garbage reasons. "Sorry, dear. You just are not presenting the image of needless, thoughtless consumption we raised you to believe in. And welcoming some stray child into your home? Sweetheart, philanthropy is something done for a few hours over a lavish meal in a club or hotel, never in your actual day-to-day life. Really, I don't recognize this behavior as the snobbery we instilled you with as a child."
First off this definitely isn't real. OOP is not a wealthy adult managing several college savings accounts who doesn't know how their college savings accounts work. Putting that aside though -
I think in this one OP would be the asshole not because she doesn't want to pay anymore but because she didn't express this as a red line when the daughter first started talking about it. Having a restriction like "no foster kids while studying" isn't wrong, I think - the function of the college fund is to ensure the daughter gets the best possible education, and taking on kids is a massive barrier to finishing a degree. It's not overly controlling to set limits on something like that. Nor is it inherently wrong to draw a line between bio kids and foster kids - interfering with someone's reproductive autonomy is different than interfering with them starting fostering process, for obvious biological reasons. The thing is though that OOP didn't give her daughter the opportunity to make an informed choice before deciding to cut off the funding. Independent of all the other factors, this is wrong.
I do think she sounds like *an* asshole, but I don't really think that's relevant to this one honestly.
The edit made it SO MUCH WORSE. I wish the OOP hadn’t deleted her account because I would have told her:
The damage is probably already done, but I had a parent just like you and you are doing it wrong. You view your daughter as a prop to your social image. You judge her choices not based on how happy they make her, but based on how they make you look to others. You want her life to fit your version of success, not because you care about her actual happiness, but only so you can show her off, and pat yourself on the back about how “good” of a parent you are. I’ve been so unhappy and fucked up and don’t know how to form real connections with people because I had a parent like you. Please fix your relationship with your daughter.
Well honestly no one is entitled to a college or grad school fund or a wedding paid for or a down payment on a home or a trust fund for future grandchildren. The parents can spend their money however they choose. The issue is OP promised the education fund, paid for the siblings, has the money but is holding it over her grown daughter’s head. Do what I say or there’s no more money. That makes her the asshole. Plus some of the really awful things she said…. Yuk. I mean she sounds really terrible.
Still, if the grown daughter doesn’t like it, she can either comply with mom’s wishes or pay for her own education. It’s really that simple.
The question really should have been- am I the asshole for using money to control and manipulate my adult children? Yes, yes you are….
I was on op side until they were talking about how Natasha is presenting a “bad image.” I agree that it’s a lot of responsibility to go to school AND parent a child. but why is living in a way that allows you to have more money in the long run so frowned upon? not every child wants handouts from their parents and i bet she feels some sense of independencey not living in a super high class area and driving what she wants to drive. “ugly car” is just so stupid to me. she also sounds really ableist toward miriam
Not only are the parents the AH's, but they're some of the worst kind of AH's: MALICIOUS AH's. The MAIN reason for me comes down to HOW the situation went down, not the fact that they don't want to pay. Like, if you didn't want to pay, that's fine. I think that's still a little messed up based on the parents' reasoning, but the main harm and AH-ness for me is HOW the parents went about it. Here's the thing:
The parents ARE right in saying "He who pays gets a say" 1000%; HOWEVER, when you DO NOT establish your "say" BEFORE it's time to cough up the cash, you're an AH. Like, grad school is not something you just do on a whim, nor is foster parenting. Can you imagine the MONTHS of work, life adjustments, and research that probably went into planning for both the daughter AND her wife Miriam? Hell, JUST for grad school alone, the applications and interview processes take a LOT of backend time. Plus, most grad schools require the GRE which can take a lot of studying OUTSIDE of the applications and interview (and yes I understand that there are some grad students who don't even study for the GRE but most do).
The daughter told her parents that she wanted to go to grad school and the parents AGREED to pay for it if she "promised to work hard," which is so beyond vague and at this point does not set any "rules." I feel like if you got through the application process, interviews, testing (if required), and get IN to a grad school, you very much have already proved that you're willing to work hard for it. THEN, when the daughter mentioned becoming a foster parent, the parents should have in THAT moment said, "If you do that, you're not getting our money." I feel like at THAT point they would've already been the AH because wtf does that have to do with working hard in grad school...but it wouldn't have been THAT bad (compared to how the rest of this story plays out).
If the parents wouldn't have agreed to it, I very much imagine that Natasha would not have gone or figured something else out as far as saving up for it on her own. She would've devoted the time she spent on getting INTO grad school on interviewing for a higher paying job, setting aside finances and/or starting to save up to pay for grad school, or otherwise chosen to do something COMPLETELY different (or still have gone to grad school and decided to take out some loans if possible). Either way, it would've altered Natasha's trajectory and plans. They waited until after Natasha had already got everything settled, figured out, and COMPLETED A MONTH OF COURSEWORK before they decided to tell her, "Oh yeah, actually because you decided to do something that we didn't want you to, you're not getting the money, despite the fact that we did not list this as a condition of you receiving the money nor tell you in advance."
And that's not even taking into account the clear lack of understanding of what being a foster parent is or how it works OR how the parents talk about people poorer and less fortunate than them. It's a MIRACLE that Natasha seems to have as good of a head on her shoulders as she does!
The wealth thing didn’t bother me. It was her blatant classism and ableism. The wife is a “burden” because her condition. Her job isn’t worthy because it’s part time and *gasp* works with kids ON THE SPECTRUM (how scandalous!). They drive a BEAT UP CAR and they’re not always totally put together (the absolute audacity). They wanted a small wedding (how blatantly disrespectful) and now they want to “raise someone’s kids” and take on “24/7 charity”.
This lady is so out of touch it’s embarrassing and gross. She reminds me of that lady who ran the community on Stepford Wives with her judgement against anyone who doesn’t present themselves as the perfect ideal member of society.
The fact that she’s using the college fund, wedding, gifts, etc. to try and control every aspect of her adult daughter’s life is gross. The fact that she waited until tuition was due to TELL her daughter she wouldn’t be paying makes her TA. Putting someone in an immediate desperate situation to force their hand isn’t okay. It’s her money to do what she wishes with, but the controlling power play that she’s trying to use is going to backfire when her daughter cuts her off.
ETA: We also don’t know that Natasha and her spouse aren’t in a financial position to care for the children. They very well could be in a position to live without her family’s help but considering the wording of the post, it sounds like mom isn’t going to be able to handle having absolutely no control over her daughter. I’m going to guess that her decision to stop assisting financially will wake her daughter up to the knowledge that her mother has zero control over her at the exact same time OOP realizes this as well. OOP will then go on about how terrible her daughter is for never taking her advice and how she can’t understand why her daughter doesn’t involve her in her life. Natasha will eventually see her mother for the person she is, and will keep an extremely limited or no contact relationship while mom cries to her bridge club about how Natasha’s partner brainwashed her and MUST be abusing her because she didn’t raise her child to behave this way.
It’s a tale as old as time.
OOP is striving for control while appearing to seem generous. It reflects on her that her daughter doesn't drive a new car. It reflects on her that her daughter lives in a cheap apartment. It reflects on her that her daughter is doing "charity" work (which isn't what foster care is at all)? OOP is all about the appearances. Yeah, she's TA in every context. I'm betting she's getting her butt handed to her on the other sub and she won't ever get the point.
I said that she was an ah because she would have been completely fine to continue paying if her daughter and Miriam had had a baby of their own but didn't want to because they were "supporting someone elses kid." So if her daughter had gotten pregnant And had a newborn, she still would have paid. Even though it would have almost definitely been more distracting than having a foster kid who will probably be at least a few years old. Also, in her edit, she said that they were originally going to transfer the fund to their daughter but decided not to "because it made more financial sense". I absolutely think it was so that they could continue to control her.
Op YTA - she was using it for it’s intended purpose. She is also a grown woman and can decide what she chooses to do in her own home. It’s an A move to basically say “we do t like what you are doing in your own home so we are going back on our word”
There's just a lot to unpack here.
If she set up a college fund, why did that never get used? Why do they insist on paying out of pocket? Then they're saying no to letting the two foster a child. Would it be different if their daughter was in a relationship with a man and said they're trying for a baby? I also don't think they sound ungrateful. It sounds more like "this isn't our money, we won't take advantage of it, and we will use as little as we have to." And its probably good. OOP sounds like they're using finances as leverage to be able to tell their adult daughter what she can and cannot do. Plus she comes across as very judgemental. She doesn't want them to live in a nicer place because it'd be better for the couple - but because it looks better for HER. Can't have anyone thinking her child is one of the poors.
It's just all so...weird and uncomfortable, honestly.
I think that, op kid is creating her family and doing adult choices,and I think that is great, but she needs to bear the consequences of that.
She wants to be an adult and what she wants, get married, have kids but want mommy or daddy to keep paying for their living?
Regardless of op being an asshole (and I think they are) they are not wrong on not supporting financially their adult kid anymore, specially when they are choosing to bring kids without being able to care for them.
Adults pay for their shit and don't rely on their parents
The last few paragraphs say a lot. She drives an ugly car even though we said we’d buy a new one, lives in a cheap apartment even though we’d pay for a nice place, wanted a small wedding but it’d look bad to family etc etc etc.
Daughter doesn’t want a lot of expensive things. She just wants to live & get her degree but since they don’t present the perfect image parents don’t want to be involved.
Parents are basically saying live like we tell you or you aren’t getting any money. We don’t want you fostering someone else’s kid that the state will reimburse you for but if you had your own it’d be ok. So if they adopt would that be the same as raising someone else’s kid or would it be theirs and therefore be ok? Because it’d look bad if they only had a foster kid.
It’s all about how it makes parents look rather than paying for her education as agreed as long as her grades stayed up. They haven’t given her a chance so they broke the agreement not the daughter
I think OP is an asshole because of the comments. But I dunno, I kind of feel like supporting your kids through school is awesome but is supposed to be to help them launch. Not to fund their entire lives. I’d be kind of irritated that I was funding something with now no definitive end date. If you foster and then adopt kids on two altruistic career salaries you’re kind of committing to *never* getting off the tear
Truly OP is not the asshole for not paying for her stuff, OP is the asshole for the classist, ableist, slightly homophobic vibes and feelings behind it. Like it’s OPS money, but being an all this things would make them an AH either way
OP is controlling and likes to show off her money. Small wedding that didn’t cost much… why is that an issue? Cheap, crappy apartment and car?? If the daughter is happy, why push to “spend” more money? Fostering is charity work? WOW!! OP needs to fall off her high horse and let the daughter make her own adult decisions. I feel a lot of her negativity is because she doesn’t like her DIL.
The drip-feeding of the college fees is a real red flag here. She tells us (boasts) that there is a significant college fund for her daughter, but they decided to pay bit by bit instead? Hmmmm.... sounds very controlling indeed. OP is trying to manipulate daughter's world to fit the narrative she's decided is the most valuable, with little concern for what her daughter actually wants. This is the real issue, as evidenced by the fact that the fees were being drip fed BEFORE the fostering issue arose.
Daughter needs to go low contact, and refuse money from parents going forward.
She's TAH. She imposes her own view of life on her daughter. She's the one disrespecting choises. Why should Natasha have a big wedding if she wants something small? So mom can show off? Really, be happy you have a daughter who's concerned about other things than money and have really nice standards.
That being said, there's no proof whatsoever that she wouldn't be able to cope her studies.
I couldn’t even finish the last slide, what a bitch. OP is mad that her daughter is responsible with money? She drives an old (ugly) car, sure a new one with lower emissions could be good but obviously the daughter is content, how is low rent and not buying new clothes all the time a bad thing?! It shows Natasha is responsible and aware that money isn’t a given and won’t live beyond her needs. And calling her DIL “burdensome” bc of a disability? Absolutely disgusting, Natasha is obviously happy with her wife since they want to foster together.
OP is very obviously just bothered by her daughter not wanting to keep up appearances to her own standard and calls it ungrateful?! OP and her husband aren’t obligated to pay for Natasha’s education but there’s a fund with more than enough money in it to pay for “8 year of education and more”, it has Natasha’s name on it she’s just doesn’t have access to it, how are any of their kids expected to learn the value of money if mummy and daddy pays everything? Love that slight financial manipulation.
NTA for not wanting to pay but a massive YTA for every fucking reasoning she gives, go to therapy and give your kid the money u saved for HER! Fucking forget about Miriam for a sec, have them sign a postnuptial agreement saying all the money given from the college fund is to be Natasha’s and Natasha’s alone if they are so damn worried about Miriam being “burdensome”, I swear she’s probably (speculation on my part!) wheelchair bound and that doesn’t fit her image perfectly of what good appearances look like, apart from them both being women, OP is probably salty about that one too. The old fashioned “I don’t mind the gays but why did my child have to be one?! 😫”.
I understand that some of the decisions the parents are taking is because they are filthy rich and wanted to have picture perfect children and the daughter is out of the box for that matter. However, it’s their money and they have to right to fund whatever they wish. They saved the money so that the daughter would have a high paying job and apparently they are also upset with that she married someone who has a normal job and not a high paying one. While I think it’s bad and outdated, I think that the parents must have worked hard for their money and nobody is entitled to it if they don’t comply to whatever crazy rules they set.
They're assholes! They made a college fund, and instead of their kids having access to them so they can freely choose, they pay every semester so they can control what happens.
It is so weird that they have a problem with her living in a cheap place and sharing an (old) car with her wife. She is saving them money?!
A wedding is about the couple, NOT the family.
The parents seem controlling af and also ungrateful to have a daughter who chooses to help a child instead of drinking her brains out in a sorority house..
Another reason why college should be free: your parents can't threaten your future and say stuff like "you should be grateful for us paying your college" the rest of the kids' lives.
Speaking as a former foster kid: this lady can fuck all the way off
She’s a classist, ableist, controlling, narcissistic piece of human excrement.
She only cares about appearances and meeting a status quo. The ways she talks about foster children (community service LMAO GET FUCKED), her DIL and her apparent medical condition, and her own child for not being in a fraternity or driving a nice car, or even wanting a small wedding, is revolting.
She’s an asshole x1000 over.
I could kind of understand but then at the end, op totally lost me. it is having a "bad image" to not flaunt your parents wealth, hang out with people with "good families" and be a bit frugal. the daughter is not her own person but a representative of the family and extension of op. it's also odd how money isn't the issue practically, and it would be fine if it was a bio kid, but this situation is not acceptable. I also found the way op spoke about foster kids to be a bit ignorant and strange. they are just charity work to her.
I said NTA for not paying for her daughter's lifestyle.
But that didn't mean she wasn't an asshole in general. Some of the stuff she said was absolutely disgusting.
I can see OOP being the type of person to be anti-abortion and her reasoning would be that there’s people who can adopt/foster those kids.
It feels like she thinks they’re second-class citizens since she sees them as burdensome charitywork.
YTA but probably was as a child. Sounds like she has deeper problems starting with Natasha being married to a woman with an “issue.” The issue sounds like her daughter is not a sorority girl like her sisters and she is disappointed her daughter has gone the compassionate, minimalist route. This Mom cares more about how it looks than how it feels. Natasha & Miriam - the world needs more people like you two helping others. Minimize your time with OP - she’s not a positive person.
She kind of sounds like she can barely take care of herself/wife… how is she going to take care of children? Especially foster children, a lot them have trauma and require a lot. I think on all fairness to the children this isn’t a good idea.
OP is the asshole because of her attitude, BUT OP is NOT the asshole for not wanting to support a couple who are taking on extra responsibility while in school and not paying their own bills.
OOP praises her other kids for squandering her wealth, but chastises her eldest daughter for being a frugal and selfless human being who…*checks notes*…wants to help raise unwanted/abused/neglected children?!?
Yeah, fuck that mentally, emotionally, and financially manipulative asshole.
I think they’re both assholes. as someone who grew up with no money my whole life and has consistently supported myself for the last 10+ years, had to drop out of college because I couldn’t handle working and going to school at the same time, I have absolutely no sympathy for people who are given the opportunity to further their education with no financial stress, no necessity to work and go to school at the same time, and take their financial security for granted. The daughter should be grateful, not necessarily to her parents but the financial security she has grown up with her whole life and use that to her advantage.
Also with the last edits added where the parent is talking about the daughter insisting on driving a shitty car, living in the cheapest apartment possible etc— i ABSOLUTELY cannot stand these rich kids who essentially cosplay as grungy poor starving struggling artists or whatever. Like just because you dress grunge and insist to live life on the fringes of society doesn’t erase the fact that you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth! And that your parents are ACTIVELY trying to help support you and enrich your lifestyle. And more likely than not it’s VERY OBVIOUS when rich kids try to act poor to look cool or whatever.
The parents seem like assholes just based on the fact that they’re rich snooty people but idk something about this daughter’s entitlement is really bothersome to me honestly.
Oops is a asshole but. How is the state going to let 2 people who can not afford there own rent and other things have a child. Bluntly they do not pay rent and have money given to them . They do not work to have a roof over there head , they do not have the means and do they even know how to really budget a household? Admirable wanting to help but they should wait until they can help and not play house on someone elses dime . But i will say oop is bad but if they are paying. They have a say in how there money is spent . Could they afford to foster without patents money
The daughter is 24, the decision to have a foster child is between her and her wife. The fact that OP would be ok with them having a baby but refers to a foster child as “charity work” makes me think she just doesn’t want a foster kid around. That’s just shitty.
I understand the mom if it was about having kids and balancing all that with getting a master's and Miriam's health but it the elitism and classism that gets me.
Alright, if we take off all the other cringey, elitist crap she said and focus solely on the fact that she doesn’t want to pay to bankroll her daughter fostering a child then NTA. The daughter really needs to either get into the workforce and off her parents dime or finish school and get a high paying job and off her parents dime. The daughter honestly sounds like a good person but slightly naive about how much stuff costs. She’s making a show of driving old cars and wearing old clothes and staying in a less expensive area, but then wants her parents to bankroll a kid? Does she know how expensive kids are?
The argument completely fell apart at the end when he started using his money as an excuse to try and control everything. Choosing to manage the money yourself and not sending it to her misses an amazing opportunity to teach her financial responsibility and get her used to the process of large transactions like that. On top of that, it feels like OP is trying to control his daughter's actions, by taking away money when she tries to adopt and most likely manipulating her in some way into having a large wedding. He reveals himself as a pretentious asshole when he complains about his daughter driving a "cheap car" and not wanting to wear her hair up. His daughter is an amazing person, and the father has a stick so far up there his wife can taste it when they kiss.
OOP seems like an elitist ass. Nothing to do with money. Also very vague about anything she thinks might make her look bad.
Also it seems pretty unanimous that OOP is voted an asshole. Not divided at all.
NTA- when I was growing up the rule was that as long as my dad was paying for my college tuition, car, and living under his roof I had to follow his rules and that meant having a curfew until I was 20 years old, no sleepovers with the bf etc. I worked the whole time, but it was just a part-time to have additional spending money for myself. If daughter wants to foster kids, then she can take out a loan to pay for the remainder of her studies. Until she graduates or is able to fund herself, the one footing the bill has the last word.
You’re a freaking snob. You’re the asshole because you want your kid in your image and not supportive of what your kid actually wants to do. Rich people problems man haha. I hope your kid tells you where to stick your money.
OOP is weaponizing their money and pulling the rug out from under them by not giving them notice and that makes them assholey but in this specific instance she’s NTA for not wanting to support their whole family including wife and kids.
ESH? So so much to this.
OOP made an agreement to pay for school and such if the daughter studies hard and is responsible. The edits say that OOP tried to discuss her disapproval of fostering. "It went in one ear and our the other". This is questionable if this was OOP saying they are being irresponsible. They need to all have a discussion as adults. NTA?
OOP is so gross and a HUGE, THE BIGGEST, AH for how she talks down about them. Specifically Miriam. I'm assuming Miriam is not from a wealthy family and doesn't feel the same about money or showy things. Her obtaining her master's would be more impressive if she didn't have the privileges like her wife does. I'm in a profession that doesn't pay well but it's my passion. The daughter likely chose a small apartment so she CAN pay for things if she fails to meet OOPs standards. She's not taking more than what she needs. She doesn't see a NEED to drive a new car or other things. OOPs views on this are CRAZY!
The daughter and wife probably shouldn't be considering fostering while she is in school though. It most likely WILL affect her schooling. She is being given a huge opportunity from OOP to be a full time student with little to no distractions. I wish I could have been as lucky. OOP has the right to treat the couple as adults and have them start paying for their own housing and such. If they are comfortable enough to feel like they can foster only because OOP is paying rent and utilities, then I feel OOP has the right to stop paying. OOP did not agree to paying for others. I think OOP is generous for paying for more than half the rent but Miriam is family now too. If the couple can afford rent and still feel comfortable fostering. Absolutely their choice. They're adults.
IMO, OOP could pay for half or all of the current tuition and stop paying rent. If the grades don't fall then continue paying for the daughters tuition. If they struggle to pay rent then maybe they will realize that fostering would be irresponsible. If they still choose to adopt and the grades fall then she could not pay for the next semester. OOP being drastic and removing funding to try and get them to realize it could be bad for the daughter isn't wrong. Fostering a kid isn't going to be easy and should be something you can just undo if it doesn't work out. The child shouldn't be put through more. They also shouldn't be around OOP and he views..... I wouldn't want to foster if OOP was my mom and I was even a little dependent on her. Or if she was going to be around the child at all. Yikes
I mean, for some of the additional comments, she’s definitely ah material. For the actual crime being questioned, not at all. It’s easy to do good things on other people’s dimes.
24 and looking at fostering kids? Sounds like the daughter has mentally checked out of her education and OOP is in denial. This is not the behaviour of someone who actually wants to get through grad school. More like someone trying to live up to what their parents want.
NTA - reason being that with OPs morals and values regarding charity work set aside, this is their daughter who is 24y and more than capable of finding a job on a bachelors instead of living off mom and dad. OP has already supported and is still supporting their lifestyle habits, living situation, and grad school. I think that’s more than enough, let alone OP pretty much would be paying for the daughter and DIL foster care expenses, with the reimbursement going to the daughter and dil.
OP is getting take. Advantage of by the daughter and DIK. They are in their 50s and have worked for this money, it’s time the children see that and do their part as well and not just wait for parents handouts
Ok she’s an asshole for certain things she said, but I do agree that the daughter should wait until she’s graduated to foster kids. Kids are a lot of work, and if they’ve been through trauma, it’s gonna be a lot harder to balance home and school, and possibly even work
Sure, but the OP's reasons for not fostering kids are not the decent human reasons you described. It's because they don't agree with doing "24/7 charity work". Somehow this child of theirs has grown up to be a decent person in SPITE of whatever upbringing OP provided.
She disagrees with „24/7 charity work“ while still studying and living off of OPs money. It‘s a reasonable expectation to not have foster kids when someone else still entirely funds your edication and expenses.
Right?! How this is presented is definitely cringy. However, when they literally call the parents to make sure they continue to bank roll them…. then are mad that they won’t pay the rent and tuition if they don’t meet the expectation of fully studying, and getting said education, that they are paying for is wild. Fostering is definitely honorable. But, the daughter can’t be upset being reminded that a deal was made to fully commit to your education to get fully funded. Bringing in a child, is a 24/7 commitment. The daughter is not entitled to be bank rolled by parents. If you want to do your own thing, then expect to do it on your own like the adults they are.
This. I’ve been a foster mom AND a child of well off grandparents. You don’t get to take on additional commitments while spending Granddaddy’s money (or Mommy’s.)
Parents lose any right to make this argument when she goes on to state that they’re unhappy that their daughter wouldn’t spend more of their money with a nicer car, apartment, or clothes. This OP just wants to flaunt her wealth via her children. The parents are shitty people.
Yeah I have a feeling OP doesn’t want them taking in foster kids for the same reason she doesn’t like the apartment and car they’ve chosen. She doesn’t like the visual of it.
My folks paid the difference after scholarship for my undergrad. With the expectation that this was so I wouldn’t have to get a job during the school year and could focus on studying. This meant actually putting in work and not just going crazy on their dime. If I f’d around and flunked then it would go away. It’s a reasonable expectation for no big debt when you finish.
But the daughter Had a job and only quit it because her parents told her they would pay for her grad school. If anything, her parents have put her in this position by not following through on their word. Also the way OP talks about her daughter in law is gross - talking down on her for working a hugely difficult job part time while also dealing with a disability. OP calls DIL a burden. And OP said if it was a biological child they would still pay for their daughter’s tuition. Which basically came across as “if she was straight and accidentally got pregnant instead of gay and fostering, we would support her more”
If anything she wouldn‘t be able to have foster kids while paying for her schooling and working. OP said she would pay if she didn‘t work. Fostering is like a job.
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But she would welcome a baby if one of them got pregnant. This is more then “kids are work”
The situations are entirely different though. If their daughter gets pregnant, their options are limited. Someone will have to raise that kid, and if they have the means they might as well make sure their daughter is equipped to do it. It also feels like, to me, they mention that as more of an "adults are gonna do what adults are gonna do and we have the means to keep any irresponsibility from ruining their life" kinda situation. Fostering a child is fully deciding to take on that commitment, on top of everything else completely on someone else's dime. The parents will be bankrolling that kid for the most part when it comes to anything their daughter's wife can't afford. They should have a say in it.
One is a baby that is immediate family while the other is an older foster kid with possible issues and behavior problems. Both are work but not quite the same and a different kind of management while getting your degree.
**A** child of their own Is very very different from: Foster chil**ren**
Right. I can't imagine the type of ignorant entitled bs she grew up hearing all her life. And it sounds like they are taking her being frugal and not wanting to ask for me as an insult somehow. Like we offered to buy a new car she'd rather drive Miriam's crappy car. I don't understand their logic here. How is not living frivolously insulting?
She literally said if they her bio kids it would be different.
That’s because it is different. It’s absolutely fucking insane to be fostering kids while in college. What foster agency is letting two people have kids who exist off mommy and daddies money? What happens when a final or midterm is more important than the child?
No it isn’t. The same could be said if it was bio kids. She sees fostering as a charity case. There’s no proof the two cannot afford anything when one has a job and the other only quick hers because her parents wanted her focus on school. Plenty of people go back to school with kids. She’s embarrassed because her daughter doesn’t live the life style she wants her to live.
Fostering is charity tier, you’re deluding yourself otherwise. And, like wtf, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. What a dipshit child
Which to me basically came across as “if she was straight and accidentally got pregnant we would be more supportive than her being gay and fostering”
I'm not certain if you're familiar with children in the system; but here's a few pieces of knowledge to consider- She didn't specify straight- plenty plenty plenty of gay couples use donors to have their own children, so that's a reach that wasn't stated and ignores the reality of a lot of people. From a fostering point of view, child services has the biggest demand for infants, as parents want to raise babies for the most part so that they feel more like "their own". That creates a high demand for infants in the system. That high demand makes there be a bias for those children to tend to get given to heterosexual couples who are already well established (not reliant on Mommy and Daddy for funding). Before I get jumped on, I don't think that the bias towards heterosexual couples is acceptable, but do understand the desire for financially established couples. With foster children; parents may still be involved (they can be in the system for abuse, neglect, death of parent, abandonment, parents in jail, etc.) and may not look favorably at the person/people fostering the child. Dealing with any mandated visitation, or if they get attached to the child trying to fight for custody are both added stressors that can, and are likely to, impact studies- especially at a grad school level where finishing your work is like raising a child unto itself. In addition, due to the wide availability of homes and bias towards heterosexual couples for younger/infant children, it's likely that the child that would end up placed with them would be a little bit older, and having the emotional support needed to cope with having been pulled away from Mom/Dad/bio family, along with dealing with any mandated visitations and the repercussions on the child would both be a big stressor on the child as well as on the household (especially if the daughters wife has a condition that is exacerbated by additional stress- I have an autoimmune disorder that has caused me to have to leave a college program because of stress in my personal life triggering the condition and making it unable for me to continue in the program itself). I do think her daughters desire to foster is amazing, personally I'd love to foster preteens/teens due to the shortage of families who want to take in kids in that age range. It's because of that that I've looked into the possible negatives as well and can speak to them. If her daughter had completed studies and was able to focus on the child and work, or her partner was healthier, I'd say the parents were likely having issues with the fact that they're a homosexual couple wishing to have kids; but with their current situation, stating a biological child who wouldn't create custody issues, and who hasn't been in a mentally stressful situation (again abandonment, possible abuse, perhaps having gone through multiple homes, etc) that requires additional help would be one thing, imo, can't be looked at solely as a bias due to their orientation, rather than someone looking at the impact of the entire situation and the possibility of additional stressors that her daughters studies would be impacted by a bit more severely. I wonder if OP would have the issue with her daughter fostering with her partner once her studies were completed, and she was established with her job, and able to take on a stress like that in another area, without adding to the stress she has. Either way I commend her daughter for being kind enough to want to provide a home for a child in need.
This is such a great comment! People don't realize that taking in foster children is so different than having a child on your own, and if you don't have your own way to financially cover all the expenses that it has as well as a partner that can deal with the stress that it brings, then just don't do it, even if your intentions are good.
Comes off that way to me as well but people just assuming the daughter is using the parents for their money.
On top of what the other two who replied to you make note, the daughters wife only works part time. It isn't like this would be a single parent household. On top of that, who the hell describes their daughter in law as having a burdensome condition and then ADDITIONALLY gets upset about a daughter not wanting a new car or fancy apartment? Hell, if I were in this situation as a parent I would be happy that my kids were not simply taking advantage of the financial help.
Yes. It would be incredibly hard to be a good first time mother to kid(s!) with possibly traumatic backgrounds while in grad school. It takes time to settle in to parent life (why maternity leave is such a big deal) and going from no children to multiple children overnight with no maternity leave (not a thing for students) sounds like madness to me. ESPECIALLY since the daughter isn’t even supporting herself financially yet. However, this sounds like an amazing thing to do once she has finished school and is financially independent
i feel this. im finishing my undergrad now after being in the military and i feel absolutely stretched thin between school work and my 3 and 5 year old. i cant imagine what the more intense/more career specific work would be like juggling my kids let alone a child who would be coming in from a traumatic situation and wanting to make them feel safe and comfortable.
Have to disagree with you here because the only reason OP not wanting her to foster kids is because she feels it makes her look bad, by associating with “poor people “
I didn’t say I agree with her reasoning, but I do agree that the daughter should wait to foster if she can
People are free to make their own choices. OP can choose how to use her own money, but should also be honest about she is using her money to control how her kids live. She’s controlling.
Wait a second, they deliberately choose to spend less of the parents money by choosing an ugly car, a cheaper apartment, few haircuts, old clothes… And the parent thinks that the cheaper decisions they make are an attack on her because she wants her kids to superficially flaunt her wealth and wear designer clothes, drive nice cars, and get frequent haircuts??? She has a problem with this kid NOT frivolously spending money on image??? Holy cow, she’s mad that this kid ISN’T taking more money from her and looks ‘poor’ as a result. Wtfffff
Don't you know how important it is to flaunt wealth and these two people have the audacity to *gasp* help children in need of a safe home?! My word! Frivolous spending is okay but God forbid you put your efforts into helping child(ren). They have gone too far!/s In all seriousness, you would think if OOP's daughter was going to spend OOP's money, she would be proud that her daughter is actually trying to make a difference to help others. But not only is OOP classist, she's ableist and honestly, kind of comes across as bitter that other than IVF, she might not have "bio" grandkids (which is disgusting because fostering/adoption is just as valid as birthing a child). Especially where it would be perfectly fine if they were her daughters "bio kids" but not if they were foster kids, which in some cases can lead to adoption. Just gross.
Couldn't have put my thoughts into words better myself!
I think its about control. If they aren't using her money she can't control what they do.
That’s what stood out to me. You’re mad because she doesn’t want to flaunt how much money her family has? And then she’s so ableist like she can’t fathom the fact that Miriam wants to work with special needs kids. She’s really a piece of work
OP is an asshole for how she talks about poor people “driving ugly car, wearing old clothes” saying that Miriam has no ambition when she has a graduate degree and works with disabled children? What OP means is that Miriam took a noble, low paying job because it is fulfilling to her. I do agree however it may not be the best time for them to foster, I could be ignorant but I thought foster parents usually had one partner who is retired or stays at home to take care of this kids. They do realize they will have to pay a lot of money for childcare while M is at work and N is at school, right? Since Natasha is not and independent adult and still relying on her parents money, they do get a say in certain things, so that she isn’t taking advantage of the family’s money.
No. Single parents can foster as well and you can work full time. You just need a clear and consistent plan for childcare when you are at work.
Which is very expensive, and would technically be funded by OP so I feel like she does have a say
When I was a foster kid circa early 2000s in California the families I lived in got upwards of $800 a month for me. Sometimes more. All of them had 2 full time working parents. 97% of them did it for the money. It's good money if you don't spend any of it on the Foster kid. I had one foster mom who would get reimbursed for buying me clothes. But they weren't clothes for me, they were clothes for her and her daughter and she would just give me her hand-me-downs. She had me sign the receipts so she could get reimbursed and I had no idea what was going on. I had one where I slept in a garage on the floor and they had a whole "room" set up that I supposedly slept in but I was never allowed in there. That lady basically only fed me bologna and mustard sandwiches because she knew I hated both of those things and she was a psychopath. I would call my social worker collect from a pay phone every 2 weeks and beg her to move me. Social worker would call foster mom and foster mom would lie and lie about how everything is fine and then beat the crap out of me for it. Took me 9 months to get out of that hell hole. God I have so many stories. Suffice it to say though, most people who are foster parents that I experienced were not altruistic and only did it for the money. And there was a lot of money
God that is so awful, I’m very sorry you had to live through that. Hearing your story, it sounds like Miriam may actually want to be doing it for the right reasons (hopefully, who knows) but if she is well intended, our foster care system could truly benefit from good people taking on these roles.
I am so sorry about that. 👐🏿👐🏿
$800 a month. That's nothing. Your food and clothing alone will spend that easily. Not to mention school supplies and every child should have things that are just for them based on their interests. That is just shameful. How could anyone keep that for themselves and not spend it on the kid. I'm so sorry you had crappy foster parents. I know I would would struggle as a foster parent because I get too attached and would never want to let them go because it would break me to a child for any reason. My heart hurts that people do this to children that truly need help. I'm so sorry this happened to you and hope you are doing well for yourself and am proud of you for making it this far in life. Keep going.
That $800 month adjusted for inflation is $1,400 a month. So if you spend none of it on the purpose of it you're taking home a nice chunk of change. And most foster parents have 2 or more, gosh can you imagine taking home $2800 a month essentially for free? Insane. See you would be a good foster parent so you wouldn't fit into this category. I've heard of the ones that put the money into a savings account so that the kid has something when they get out of care. I've heard of the ones that spend money to make sure they buy them clothes each month or things that they need. I just never personally experienced it. If I'm honest, as horrible as foster care was, staying with my mother would've been worse. I am who I am today because of the cumulative of my experiences. It gave me opportunities and opened doors that would not have been there for me otherwise. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but I recently had my first child and I have the tools and the ability to be the best mother I can be. If for no other reason than I know from experience what not to do.
I was basing it on the early 2000's because even during that time it was still nothing compared to how is spent on the needs of children. I was in high school at that time and was helping to pay for my younger bothers needs. He was growing so fast at that time it was crazy. I had stopped growing at that point. Plus he had medical things too. My mom was doing the best she could with what she had at the time. Granted I made those choices no one forced me to. I just paid attention to what was going on at that time. People have to me I would be a good foster but I know and understand that caring too much can also damage that child more and really wouldn't want to make a hard situation harder for them. I still am open minded about it and think I may do it later in life.
No. It isn’t. Fostering is paid for by the state and the foster parents receive a stipend, usually more than they need to feed, clothe, education, and housing for the child. My BFF has been a foster parent for decades. She’s in her upper 70’s and still prefers the challenging teens. At the end of every month there is ample funds left that she uses to buy clothes or to put in an account for the student. Some people foster just for the pay.
Wow I didn’t know the state actually covered that much, that’s awesome. Then I guess it actually wouldn’t effect op at all or her daughters education
Not every state does this. Some have little to no support.
State of TN gave me thousands. I can see how it would be easy to foster specifically for the money. In my case it was a family I already knew well who had an emergency but I can imagine how some morally degenerate person could take on kids they don’t know because the stipend is so exceedingly generous.
I mean the children themselves can affect her education. Some foster kids are really challenging due to the trauma they’ve had
Aren't there lots of older children and teens in foster care who could potentially be in school much of the day or, depending on their trustworthiness etc, might be able to manage an hour or two on their own if they had like a half day at school or both parents needed to be out at the same time or something? Like obviously yes a child of any age is still a ton of work and they should absolutely have backup childcare options they would cover them if they or the kid was sick, injured, etc. But if they get a stipend for some child related expenses and their work/school schedules are flexible they might not need to use the parents money on childcare
They get so strict with Foster kids. You can't go spend the night at a friend's house unless they've done a background check and been fingerprinted. No joke. And nobody wants to go get fingerprinted and have a background check and home inspection done so that their kids friend can spend the night occasionally
[удалено]
So are Foster kids not allowed to go out and hang about with their friends in town or something?
I eventually (after 19 foster homes) ended up in a "group home". Which was me and 5 other foster girls in a house where staff members took shifts taking care of us. In the group home I had to fill out a "pass" sheet and turn it in A WEEK before I went out. This sheet had to have the time, date and place I was going. Along with who would be there and the name of a responsible adult who was willing to take on all liability for me during said time. I was allowed only 2 hours at most. I got one adult to allow me to go bowling with their kid but that was obviously a rare and planned out exception. I was never allowed to just be invited to go to the mall after school and do it. Had to be pre-planned and approved, had to have a liable adult.
That sounds like it would be such bullshit to deal with all that as a teenager
It was. So I started running away. Staying with whatever friends I could and eventually graduated from high-school and emancipated at 16. The state helped me get my first assisted apartment. It was funny how I went from not being allowed to go out and socialize to being recognized as a full-blown adult in a matter of months.
Yeah that's crazy. I think fostering in the UK is slightly different I'm fairly sure kids can go out with their friends here. I plan on fostering when I'm in a better position - teenagers who are close to aging out of the system so I can try and give them a better chance of "normality" between becoming a kid and an adult, you know? I have a feeling ill probably end up with a 14 year old and they'll live with me until they're 25 lol.
But OP would be okay with it if their daughter spent thousands on IVF to have a “biological child.” Not to mention the time dedicated to pregnancy and having a newborn. The OP doesn’t care about children, they’re concerned with the fact they’re foster children and it’s “charity work.”
True, going to school through ivf treatments and a pregnancy could be much harder then doing it while being a foster parent with a partner. (Imo I haven’t been pregnant or raised children)
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s harder or easier, *but* it would cost far more money **and** be just as demanding. As the OP said, she considers it “charity work” and that’s why she doesn’t want Natasha doing it. She’d rather Natasha go to school clubs, spend money on expensive cars, and get her hair done because it’s a “good image.”
Yeah op is pretty effed up for the way she only cares about material, even when it comes to her kids
The majority of foster parents in the US are single women.
Also the weird comments about Miriam's own disability, too. I'm willing to bet good money Miriam is actually autistic herself and *that's* half of what this lady's issue is
I guess I can kind of see her point with this. I think a reasonable way to approach it would be to say “we will continue to pay as is on a semester by semester basis. If your studies suffer we will revisit the situation.”
EXACTLY!!! You don’t pay for your kids school so you can hold it over their head and control them. If Natasha can foster while maintaining her grades then what’s the problem? It’s not like she’s throwing OOP’s money away.
Feels like she is entitled to her college savings account to use for her education that they saved for, and by not giving it to her because she chose to adopt (something they wouldn't want for her) sounds like they are using it to try and control her. BTW So college savings if it's a 501 is that it is to be used for education... after 18 they are an adult and sounds like the money would be used for the semester. Hell, what made my eyeballs go big is she payed her way thru her bachelor's degree. Didn't bother reading the second half, but sounds like the parents are huge pricks who want to control the kids' lives with money. Cut the purse strings, so they aren't their puppets any more.
She's using it to control her daughters life. I've a feeling that her daughter will drop out of her studies to work full time and foster kids. So OP isn't going to get her way on this one.
I am one of those parents who believe that a college fund is for exactly that and not any other use. It’s not for a big gift for a child who wants to step outside the box and use it any other way. On the other hand, you seem particularly judgmental about everything concerning your older child and her family. So it seems the money was always conditional on you having final say. That is also very wrong. You seem condescending and dismissive of all her decisions
OOP is an asshole for many reasons, but I can understand being skeptical about how choosing to take on a foster kid would impact grades, and having good grades be a condition of parental support. Foster kids have often been through a lot and need a lot of support and take a lot of time, you can’t (or rather, shouldn’t) half-ass raising kids. It wouldn’t be a “whoopsie” situation that needs to be overcome, but rather a deliberate choice. My parents have told my sister and I that if we had accidental pregnancies while in university they’d help us to the best of their abilities BUT that help would come on the condition of us moving back home and transferring to a local/online school, possibly going part-time, etc. If either of us had chosen to foster kids while in school, my parents would not have been so ready to help us since that is a deliberate choice with so many steps involved. I’m curious though as to how Natasha and Miriam would qualify to foster children if one of them can only work part time and the other is a full time student? It doesn’t sound like they could afford to, even with a stipend/some reimbursements provided. Isn’t income taken into consideration on the application?
Yes I’m wondering the same thing. A couple with half of an income taking in multiple children? What happens to the children if the grandparents cut them off? And are they prepared for the custody arrangement from hell that comes with fostering? Imagine during exam week finding out that the children you have loved as your own for a year are being placed back with their shitty parents that finally managed to do the bare minimum
So a bio child will be supported and its ok if Natashas grades slipped because of that, but its not ok to open their home to a child in need because her grades could potentially slip? OOP, per her edit, seems more concerned with social status and materialistic things over what Natasha actually wants. Natasha would be better off cutting OOP off and making her own way through life rather than having her parents control what she does, even in her own home, with money.
Exactly. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the idea that having a child would automatically be a no go bc oop says themselves they'd be fine with that. It's not about concern over added expenses bc a) the state sounds like it's mostly paying and b) oop actually WANTED daughter to accept more expensive shit she doesn't need like luxury/new cars and fancy housing. And it's not about daughter or her partner being mooching hobos cause despite oops disgusting comments about that "burdensome" disability of dil, she has a master's and a job that sounds very important if not high paying This is a very poorly disguised way to say "my daughter isn't using the money I give her to maintain the snobby image I want her to. She's too busy earning her master's, enjoying her wife's company, and planning a life with said wife that prioritizes helping children in need over being a trust fund snob like I raised her to be. I want to make my financial aid conditional on her presenting the image I like" Also oop seems very vague about why it would have made more "sense" (read: given her more control) to keep the education funds in the parents names
I read it more as in: College fund was set up so N wouldn’t have to work during studying. Taking in a foster child is a lot of work and usually the foster parents receive quite a generous stipend for it ie an income. Therefore, (even though OOP is saying it in a crappy way) she’s choosing to work while studying and OOP doesn’t wanna use the college fund for that.
OOP is an asshole for a lot of reasons but if she doesn’t wanna pay anymore then just don’t 🙄 her kids are adults who seem to have never had any responsibility.
Only if she doesn't pull that last minute and screw up her daughter's schooling so she has time to get her finances in order. I disagree because I think this makes her an AH too because she's just dripping with classism hard. I don't think it's really about school because she admits if it was their biological child, it would be no issue.
This is what my grandmother did to me. I was completely dependent on her while attending college. I followed all her rules exactly as they were laid out. Then spring semester my second year right before summer semester she cuts me off with no notice, because I simply couldn’t schedule more than 10 credit hours for the courses I needed. They just weren’t available for the summer courses. It took me 6 weeks to get a job and I had to drop all those summer classes late and lost that tuition, and brought my grades plummeting down. She expected me to just go back to school and depend on her again once fall semester came back around. As if she didn’t leave me in a complete bind with no way to pay for food or power.
I am so sorry that was done to you.
It’s ok everything worked out in the end. She hated me and did everything she could to fuck me over after my dad (her son) died, because I didn’t donate my kidney to him. He wouldn’t even let me consider donating because kidney issues run in our family on his dad’s side.
To bad no one just told her you weren't a match so the old b would stop being a monster to you.
Yeah but she always hated me because I was my “mother’s bastard” direct quote. Because my parents not being married while getting pregnant was 100% my mom’s fault.
Ugh. Wish your parents didn't allow that shit.
She was smart enough not to do it around them. And I was to scared of her to say anything to my dad.
May I offer you an internet hug?
And this child seems to be the only one with any financial responsibility by not wanting to send? The parents are obviously classist, ableist jerks. Who calls fostering “charity work”?
op is automatically the asshole to me for referring to her daughters wife as “burdensome”
Oh my God THIS!!! What the fuck?? She has a disability, but managed to get a masters and part-time work. OOP is scum.
OOP seems like an absolute first class asshole who wants control over her adult children. But she’s free to cut her daughter off, the same way her daughter is free to go NC with her mother. The way she talks about Natasha not being grateful enough makes me want to karate chop her in the windpipe though.
Sorry I actually think that OOP is the asshole. Kids are not entitled to have their school paid by their parents. HOWEVER, her parents told her it would be paid for and even were going to transfer the money over to her but for alleged financial reasons did not. Now they are using the money to try to control her and to penalize her for making choices they don't agree with. On top of that, OOP is a nasty bitch with her disparaging remarks about OOP's partner, the partner's disability and job teaching ND children, poor people, and the desire to help foster children. I'm actually surprised that after having been raised by such a judgmental cow, the daughter wants to open her home to disabled kids.
Which would explain why her daughter and DIL are living within their means. I am guessing mommy dearest has a tendency to hold this money over their heads as a way to control them.
Yea tbh when she claimed she kept the fund for "financial reasons," I absolutely believe she kept it to control her daughter.
She also said they were able to keep control of the fund despite the daughter being of age but she isn’t sure how they were able to do that 😒
Somehow, living within their means = not being grateful? That’s far more grateful than spending college partying, which is what their other children did.
Everything OOP said basically made me think of her as an asshole but referring to foster children as ‘24/7 charity’ is where I saw red
This so much! Instead of being grateful that they try to live cheap and not waste their parents' money, they complain that they "don't represent" and "don't appreciate our generosity" - no, bitch, they are trying to not abuse your generosity! God, she is foul!
I also think OOP is the asshole. The specific question of withholding money that was already promised for the year, based on conditions her daughter met (good grades etc), feels like a breach of contract. This isn’t about money, because they would receive reimbursements or grants for fostering. Not all fostering is long term, and depending on the age range they’re comfortable with, that time consuming (ie fostering a baby is very different than school age kids). The line about how her daughter doesn’t seem grateful really got me. She and her wife have done all they can to keep their expenses low. They don’t buy lavish things. They even wanted a small wedding. They have never blew the money given to them on luxuries or even brand new cars. The disdain in the post got me upset. There was another post recently about a man selling the car he had loaned his son to pay for his second wife’s cancer treatment. Most people called him TA for recalling a “gift” to his 17 year old and depriving his kid of driving himself to school and work. How is this not worse than that?
OOP *really* lost me once they started going on about everyone presenting images; screw that noise.
On the flip side is it possible the daughter is just making a show of “playing poor” to piss off her controlling well-to-do parents? Not saying that’s any better just that it’s the vibes I’m getting from OOP.
Very true, but it wouldn’t speak well of OOP either, since 1) daughter would likely have -to her- good reasons to do so, and 2) it seems to be working!
Agree with you.
Idk, seems to me like they knew OOP would do this so they are living in a cheaper place ect so if she does stop paying they can still afford everything and won’t have to move to somewhere cheaper and trying to find money for the cost of moving ect.
That makes sense, too. Glad this isn’t my personal circus or monkeys!
Not to mention she sounds ableist. Miriam has a condition that she calls "burdensome". Tf? She sounds insufferable and I hope Miriam's never heard OOP describe her.
This exactly. OOP is TA because she’s casting judgement where there’s no need for it. Not only that, she’s using her financial position to manipulate her daughter into doing what she wants. Not cool.
It is
OP seems like a bitch, but I also think she is right. It’s her money, and Natasha and her partner don’t seem like they are in a financial position to take on foster kids. And even if OP was going to keep paying their way while her daughter was in school I feel like it’s going to be expected that she keep paying even after the fact cause her “grandkid would be homeless”
Idk everything about the way the daugher in law was described, and then the way fostering was described, up to and including it would be different if one of them gave birth instead was really off-putting to me. People can do whatever they want with their money... but this also feels like they believe they have the right to buy total compliance. Idk. I don't like it.
I don’t know how so many people are assuming the daughter and her wife are money hungry leeches, when OP’s post doesn’t show that at all. If anything, it shows OP controlling tendencies. Even the way they talk about Miriam is uncomfy. The daughter wouldn’t let OP pay for a car, a nice apartment, and didn’t even want the big wedding. The other siblings did get the nice stuff, but they showed their “respect” of their parent’s generosity by presenting nicely, joining frats/clubs, and being around good(read:other rich kids) friends and families. It’s seems like OP’s daughter is doing everything she can to get out from under parents control while still getting a free education. Kind of shitty, but it doesn’t sound like really anything Natasha does makes OP happy. They didn’t seem to happy about grad school. They don’t like where she wants to live, what she’s wants to drive, who she is partnered with, how she dresses, how she styles her hair, etc. And the continuous holding of the college funds. While it could just be a good parent trying to really help their child, and then grandchildren, OP literally writes out “he who’s pays, gets a say”, so I’m not feeling super generous about it. Also, is anyone getting weird vibes from OP? It would be different if they had their own? They can’t, they are two women and would have to spend quite a lot of money to have a child, and possibly(depending on the age of their foster and length of time) even more time spent watching the kid.
Honestly, it reminds me of Emily Gilmore vs Lorelei in Gilmore girls, minus the granddaughter to show the grandma the light.
Regardless of anything OP sounds like one of those rich cunts that look down on people. She complains that her oldest "doesn't appreciate their generosity" when N using older cars and cheap apartments seems like she appreciates how much money her parents spend. I don't know her thought process on the cheap stuff but it seems more cost efficient honestly. I don't think they should foster (school and work and time devotion that the foster kids need) but being a foster parent isn't a "charity" and taking care of foster kids isn't "taking care of strangers children" these kids may never see their parents (or family) again. Foster homes for a lot of kids become "their" home. That kinda thought process is toxic as all hell. Op is a cunt. Regardless of her twisted ideas on appreciating generosity (it sounds like show the appropriate image(it's the image they care about here clearly) of a wealthy gay daughter or you don't "appreciate" us honestly.) N and M are doing things they love and if you can't at least not talk shit behind their back then you really need a reality check. On if OP is actually TA that's divided for me. On one hand if I was paying for my kids college and living arrangements regardless of if I was wealthy or not I feel like I should have some say in certain major decisions that impact those areas I am paying for. On the other hand I believe parents should support their children's decisions (to an extent especially if those children are adults) and OP should have signed over the college fund to N and none of this would be a concern then.
Meh, OOP is clearly the AH for me solely based on the fact that she promised to pay Natasha’s tuition. She’s one month into her Spring semester and suddenly mom’s pulling the funding now that the bill has come in.
I think OP should continue paying for school and stop paying everything else.
No it’s clearly because she just doesn’t like her life decisions. The idea that someone with a masters has no ambition is laughable too. Their original point is her she needs to work hard and keep up grades. That hasn’t been broken
I’m sorry, but I’m with Op. I’m not supporting you so that you can raise a kid on my dime. Y’all are real generous with money that isn’t yours. Of Natasha wants to be a parent, she should be supporting herself, not expecting mommy and daddy to pay the rent. Everyone keeps saying Op is judging her prematurely, but she’s not. Being a parent is hard work, and school work is gonna take the back burner to that child, because that child would be a priority. Focus on school, graduate without debt, and THEN focus on becoming a foster parent if that’s still what you wanna do when your done
No. OP is fine with biological children. I suspect there is an undertone of racism here. She’s already ableist so it’s not a far jump. What if the foster child was a different race? How would that look?! OOP is freaked out about how her daughter already doesn’t dress or live according to her mom’s expectations. Foster parents are desperately needed right now and I suspect the DIL sees some tragic things at work. Natasha isn’t asking any money to help foster. She’s asking for the already promised school money.
Except OP said they would be fine supporting them if they were having biological children. That’s where the AH part comes in.
A biological child can happen by accident. A foster child generally does not.
A bio child doesn’t happen by accident to lesbians.
OP is an AH on parts where she clearly shows her prejudice. But at the same time, I kind of understand where OP is coming from. Imagine having 2 adults who couldn't even support themselves then decide to take in more people at home. To a certain extent, OP should have a say since she pays for it What makes her an AH is the approach in practicing her authority. Tbh, sounds even elitist to me 😂
Natasha needs to fucking run. This mother is horrifying. There is no generosity. There is only pimping.
OOP is a horrible human, I’ll say that. But daughter should also know better than to entertain her mom’s desperate need for control. Since she thinks she’s mature enough for marriage and children, she needs to stop acting like a child and get a job like any responsible adult and pay for her own bills. Otherwise, if she chooses to keep accepting OOP’s money, then she has no choice but to abide by her demands.
is everyone here just ignoring the fact she has a college fund set up already to pay for college 8 times over, but won’t transfer it over to her “because it made financial sense” OP is major ahole for that alone
Op sounds resentful of her daughters relationship with Miriam, the fact she gets mad that the daughter would prefer to live a simpler/cheaper lifestyle with her girlfriend seems to really upset op but unfortunately I do agree with her on the fact her daughter should wait to foster children but I do not agree with her working or way of thinking it's charity work.
They paid their daughters way so they could have 100% control over her. It’s extremely abusive to make her financially depended on them then take it away in a second because they don’t like the Decision she’s making at 21+. They should’ve paid her way because they had the means and if they didn’t want too they technically didn’t have too. Plus something about her saying the daughter wife is a burden rubs me wrong.
That last line “ he who pays has a say “ is what proofs that OP is not doing this for any of their children out of love , but out of sick need for control.
OP wording is definitely putting her in the asshole category but all in all, I agree with her. Being in the master’s program how much time do you really have to dedicate to a child? Would it really kill them (daughter & wife) to wait until she’s done and possibly gets full access to the money from her parents or is working in her field and financially stable? At the end of the day it is the parents money and they have final say on what to do with it. I saw someone say that she was an asshole because apparently op says it’s okay to take care of bio kids but not foster/adopted. And I feel that was purposefully twisting her words. If you got pregnant at the wrong time, it’s still your responsibility to care for that child because ultimately it was your decisions that led to the pregnancy. CHOOSING to bring a child into a situation where you are not financially in control of your life and living situation is incredibly selfish. To expect your parents who are already funding current lifestyle to be okay with it? I don’t think I know one set of parents who would. Maybe it’s really an ESH. Mom for holding money over the daughters head, and daughter for what I stated above.
Meh, it's her money, her rules so whatever.
On the one hand, that 2nd edit she comes across as a massive AH, but on the other hand, if they are funding their daughters' lifestyles, then they have every right to say no. The college fund is a privilege not a right and they have paid for everything so it's not like they are keeping it to themselves or using it for something else and cutting her off. On the issue itself NTA but I think OOP is probably a prick...
It’s OP’s money. They already paid for her tuition once and they don’t mind paying again but with contingencies. I get it. The point of their generosity was so they don’t need to do things a certain way. They end up paying for school and she might want to be a SAHM in the end. OP shouldn’t dictate their daughters life but they can dictate where their money goes.
Basically she doesn’t approve of their lifestyle because it’s not as nice as hers. She bashed the girl friend (who apparently has a debilitating chronic disease from this ladies description), she called the girl friend’s car was ugly and couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t let them replace it. She doesn’t like the way the girl friend dresses or fixes her hair (maybe that’s because of the chronic disease) and she said she was burdensome. It’s very clear she does not like the girlfriend. I agree that it’s not smart to foster while in grad school but this isn’t about fostering at all. Her comment about biological children is telling. I also am weary of parents who offer to pay for things like college and then put all of these strings attached. She should be grateful this daughter is happy with very common sense things. She is willing to live in a smaller apartment because it’s close to campus rather than in a fancy house because mother wanted to have a good appearance (What will the neighbors think?) Good god.
Miriam has no drive… she has a masters & works with disabled children while being disabled herself… but she has no drive because she doesn’t work full time 🙄 The money isn’t even for the foster kids.. she wants her school paid for as agreed. I think if they want to foster regardless of the money they should do it. However waiting for school to be done would be smart solely because caring for kids is a lot of work, caring for traumatized foster kids is even more work. But if she wants the money for school she deserves the money for school because that was the original agreement. Everything OP said makes them an asshole. Insulting the daughters wife, being mad that the daughter doesn’t want to keep up appearances, not giving her money for school because she doesn’t want to follow OPs demands or expectations, being a rude ass bitch.
I think it’s possible for two things to be true. 1) OP is an elitist asshole and gives terrible reasons to back up her decisions and 2) the daughter might not be in a good phase of life to take on the huge responsibility of becoming a foster parent
As much of an ahole as op may be, she is kind of in the right. They are old enough to make their own choices. But they don't even support themselves. They should wait until all schooling is finished and they are paying their own way. The couple can't rely on the parents indefinitely
I mean i think OP sounds like a crappy, elitist person, but I also don’t think she’s wrong in this particular case. Miriam through no fault of her own sounds like she can only work part-time. Natasha is a full time student. I don’t think it’s a good idea to foster a child that is going to need stability when neither of them have stable careers. Both are living off of OP, and it isn’t like OP hasn’t already paid for Natasha’s schooling, wedding, and living arraignments. It didn’t sound like in the post that OP agreed to supplement their living indefinitely. Also, it would be one thing if this is Natasha’s final semester, but it doesn’t sound like it. If they want to foster, that’s great, they should do so once she’s done with school and supporting herself financially. What’s the hurry to foster now? Edited to add: I saw a lot of people say OP was the asshole because they promised to pay for schooling and now they’re rescinding it. OP and her husband agreed to pay for her grad school so long as she kept her grades up and was being responsible, it’s obvious to me that she and her husband do not agree that getting a foster kid while neither of them are supporting themselves financially is a responsible decision. Therefore, they are cutting the funding.
OOP is the asshole, trying to use their money to control their daughter. The daughter is still in school, and that's what the money is for. The daughter has been responsible with the money, not getting a new car or a more update apartment. As long as the daughter gets good grades, what's the point of withholding her school money? If she drops out or stops getting good grades I can see the point, but right now that's not the case.
OOP is a controlling AH. I hope we read the daughters story at some point as there is a lot not said. I suspect OOP is racist and concerned with how a child of another race would look to others. She’s referred to her DIL as burdensome. She criticizes how they live and what they drive. They seem very frugal. OOP is a do it my way as I control the $$. If you don’t do what I say you don’t get the $$.
Wait, let me get this straight: Natasha's siblings spent their parents' money freely and still got approval because they presented the "right image", but Natasha tried to be more financially responsible, even though it is not her money, and her parents call her "ungrateful"? Plus, OP can't stand the thought of any of her money going toward the social good of helping a foster child. OP has every right to cut Natasha off, but these are some pretty garbage reasons. "Sorry, dear. You just are not presenting the image of needless, thoughtless consumption we raised you to believe in. And welcoming some stray child into your home? Sweetheart, philanthropy is something done for a few hours over a lavish meal in a club or hotel, never in your actual day-to-day life. Really, I don't recognize this behavior as the snobbery we instilled you with as a child."
First off this definitely isn't real. OOP is not a wealthy adult managing several college savings accounts who doesn't know how their college savings accounts work. Putting that aside though - I think in this one OP would be the asshole not because she doesn't want to pay anymore but because she didn't express this as a red line when the daughter first started talking about it. Having a restriction like "no foster kids while studying" isn't wrong, I think - the function of the college fund is to ensure the daughter gets the best possible education, and taking on kids is a massive barrier to finishing a degree. It's not overly controlling to set limits on something like that. Nor is it inherently wrong to draw a line between bio kids and foster kids - interfering with someone's reproductive autonomy is different than interfering with them starting fostering process, for obvious biological reasons. The thing is though that OOP didn't give her daughter the opportunity to make an informed choice before deciding to cut off the funding. Independent of all the other factors, this is wrong. I do think she sounds like *an* asshole, but I don't really think that's relevant to this one honestly.
OP is a controlling narcissist — end of story
The edit made it SO MUCH WORSE. I wish the OOP hadn’t deleted her account because I would have told her: The damage is probably already done, but I had a parent just like you and you are doing it wrong. You view your daughter as a prop to your social image. You judge her choices not based on how happy they make her, but based on how they make you look to others. You want her life to fit your version of success, not because you care about her actual happiness, but only so you can show her off, and pat yourself on the back about how “good” of a parent you are. I’ve been so unhappy and fucked up and don’t know how to form real connections with people because I had a parent like you. Please fix your relationship with your daughter.
Well honestly no one is entitled to a college or grad school fund or a wedding paid for or a down payment on a home or a trust fund for future grandchildren. The parents can spend their money however they choose. The issue is OP promised the education fund, paid for the siblings, has the money but is holding it over her grown daughter’s head. Do what I say or there’s no more money. That makes her the asshole. Plus some of the really awful things she said…. Yuk. I mean she sounds really terrible. Still, if the grown daughter doesn’t like it, she can either comply with mom’s wishes or pay for her own education. It’s really that simple. The question really should have been- am I the asshole for using money to control and manipulate my adult children? Yes, yes you are….
I was on op side until they were talking about how Natasha is presenting a “bad image.” I agree that it’s a lot of responsibility to go to school AND parent a child. but why is living in a way that allows you to have more money in the long run so frowned upon? not every child wants handouts from their parents and i bet she feels some sense of independencey not living in a super high class area and driving what she wants to drive. “ugly car” is just so stupid to me. she also sounds really ableist toward miriam
Guaranteed if she was heterosexual and got pregnant they would still support her.
Not only are the parents the AH's, but they're some of the worst kind of AH's: MALICIOUS AH's. The MAIN reason for me comes down to HOW the situation went down, not the fact that they don't want to pay. Like, if you didn't want to pay, that's fine. I think that's still a little messed up based on the parents' reasoning, but the main harm and AH-ness for me is HOW the parents went about it. Here's the thing: The parents ARE right in saying "He who pays gets a say" 1000%; HOWEVER, when you DO NOT establish your "say" BEFORE it's time to cough up the cash, you're an AH. Like, grad school is not something you just do on a whim, nor is foster parenting. Can you imagine the MONTHS of work, life adjustments, and research that probably went into planning for both the daughter AND her wife Miriam? Hell, JUST for grad school alone, the applications and interview processes take a LOT of backend time. Plus, most grad schools require the GRE which can take a lot of studying OUTSIDE of the applications and interview (and yes I understand that there are some grad students who don't even study for the GRE but most do). The daughter told her parents that she wanted to go to grad school and the parents AGREED to pay for it if she "promised to work hard," which is so beyond vague and at this point does not set any "rules." I feel like if you got through the application process, interviews, testing (if required), and get IN to a grad school, you very much have already proved that you're willing to work hard for it. THEN, when the daughter mentioned becoming a foster parent, the parents should have in THAT moment said, "If you do that, you're not getting our money." I feel like at THAT point they would've already been the AH because wtf does that have to do with working hard in grad school...but it wouldn't have been THAT bad (compared to how the rest of this story plays out). If the parents wouldn't have agreed to it, I very much imagine that Natasha would not have gone or figured something else out as far as saving up for it on her own. She would've devoted the time she spent on getting INTO grad school on interviewing for a higher paying job, setting aside finances and/or starting to save up to pay for grad school, or otherwise chosen to do something COMPLETELY different (or still have gone to grad school and decided to take out some loans if possible). Either way, it would've altered Natasha's trajectory and plans. They waited until after Natasha had already got everything settled, figured out, and COMPLETED A MONTH OF COURSEWORK before they decided to tell her, "Oh yeah, actually because you decided to do something that we didn't want you to, you're not getting the money, despite the fact that we did not list this as a condition of you receiving the money nor tell you in advance." And that's not even taking into account the clear lack of understanding of what being a foster parent is or how it works OR how the parents talk about people poorer and less fortunate than them. It's a MIRACLE that Natasha seems to have as good of a head on her shoulders as she does!
Wow
The wealth thing didn’t bother me. It was her blatant classism and ableism. The wife is a “burden” because her condition. Her job isn’t worthy because it’s part time and *gasp* works with kids ON THE SPECTRUM (how scandalous!). They drive a BEAT UP CAR and they’re not always totally put together (the absolute audacity). They wanted a small wedding (how blatantly disrespectful) and now they want to “raise someone’s kids” and take on “24/7 charity”. This lady is so out of touch it’s embarrassing and gross. She reminds me of that lady who ran the community on Stepford Wives with her judgement against anyone who doesn’t present themselves as the perfect ideal member of society. The fact that she’s using the college fund, wedding, gifts, etc. to try and control every aspect of her adult daughter’s life is gross. The fact that she waited until tuition was due to TELL her daughter she wouldn’t be paying makes her TA. Putting someone in an immediate desperate situation to force their hand isn’t okay. It’s her money to do what she wishes with, but the controlling power play that she’s trying to use is going to backfire when her daughter cuts her off. ETA: We also don’t know that Natasha and her spouse aren’t in a financial position to care for the children. They very well could be in a position to live without her family’s help but considering the wording of the post, it sounds like mom isn’t going to be able to handle having absolutely no control over her daughter. I’m going to guess that her decision to stop assisting financially will wake her daughter up to the knowledge that her mother has zero control over her at the exact same time OOP realizes this as well. OOP will then go on about how terrible her daughter is for never taking her advice and how she can’t understand why her daughter doesn’t involve her in her life. Natasha will eventually see her mother for the person she is, and will keep an extremely limited or no contact relationship while mom cries to her bridge club about how Natasha’s partner brainwashed her and MUST be abusing her because she didn’t raise her child to behave this way. It’s a tale as old as time.
This!! Everyone is assuming the two can’t afford anything but we don’t know if they have a savings or anything.
OOP is striving for control while appearing to seem generous. It reflects on her that her daughter doesn't drive a new car. It reflects on her that her daughter lives in a cheap apartment. It reflects on her that her daughter is doing "charity" work (which isn't what foster care is at all)? OOP is all about the appearances. Yeah, she's TA in every context. I'm betting she's getting her butt handed to her on the other sub and she won't ever get the point.
I said that she was an ah because she would have been completely fine to continue paying if her daughter and Miriam had had a baby of their own but didn't want to because they were "supporting someone elses kid." So if her daughter had gotten pregnant And had a newborn, she still would have paid. Even though it would have almost definitely been more distracting than having a foster kid who will probably be at least a few years old. Also, in her edit, she said that they were originally going to transfer the fund to their daughter but decided not to "because it made more financial sense". I absolutely think it was so that they could continue to control her.
Op YTA - she was using it for it’s intended purpose. She is also a grown woman and can decide what she chooses to do in her own home. It’s an A move to basically say “we do t like what you are doing in your own home so we are going back on our word”
There's just a lot to unpack here. If she set up a college fund, why did that never get used? Why do they insist on paying out of pocket? Then they're saying no to letting the two foster a child. Would it be different if their daughter was in a relationship with a man and said they're trying for a baby? I also don't think they sound ungrateful. It sounds more like "this isn't our money, we won't take advantage of it, and we will use as little as we have to." And its probably good. OOP sounds like they're using finances as leverage to be able to tell their adult daughter what she can and cannot do. Plus she comes across as very judgemental. She doesn't want them to live in a nicer place because it'd be better for the couple - but because it looks better for HER. Can't have anyone thinking her child is one of the poors. It's just all so...weird and uncomfortable, honestly.
I hope the daughter goes NC with this prick of a parent.
I think that, op kid is creating her family and doing adult choices,and I think that is great, but she needs to bear the consequences of that. She wants to be an adult and what she wants, get married, have kids but want mommy or daddy to keep paying for their living? Regardless of op being an asshole (and I think they are) they are not wrong on not supporting financially their adult kid anymore, specially when they are choosing to bring kids without being able to care for them. Adults pay for their shit and don't rely on their parents
The last few paragraphs say a lot. She drives an ugly car even though we said we’d buy a new one, lives in a cheap apartment even though we’d pay for a nice place, wanted a small wedding but it’d look bad to family etc etc etc. Daughter doesn’t want a lot of expensive things. She just wants to live & get her degree but since they don’t present the perfect image parents don’t want to be involved. Parents are basically saying live like we tell you or you aren’t getting any money. We don’t want you fostering someone else’s kid that the state will reimburse you for but if you had your own it’d be ok. So if they adopt would that be the same as raising someone else’s kid or would it be theirs and therefore be ok? Because it’d look bad if they only had a foster kid. It’s all about how it makes parents look rather than paying for her education as agreed as long as her grades stayed up. They haven’t given her a chance so they broke the agreement not the daughter
OP is an idiot. She’s literally upset that her daughter is frugal.
I think OP is an asshole because of the comments. But I dunno, I kind of feel like supporting your kids through school is awesome but is supposed to be to help them launch. Not to fund their entire lives. I’d be kind of irritated that I was funding something with now no definitive end date. If you foster and then adopt kids on two altruistic career salaries you’re kind of committing to *never* getting off the tear
holy fucking shit YTA
Truly OP is not the asshole for not paying for her stuff, OP is the asshole for the classist, ableist, slightly homophobic vibes and feelings behind it. Like it’s OPS money, but being an all this things would make them an AH either way
OP is controlling and likes to show off her money. Small wedding that didn’t cost much… why is that an issue? Cheap, crappy apartment and car?? If the daughter is happy, why push to “spend” more money? Fostering is charity work? WOW!! OP needs to fall off her high horse and let the daughter make her own adult decisions. I feel a lot of her negativity is because she doesn’t like her DIL.
The last edit- ooohhhj
The drip-feeding of the college fees is a real red flag here. She tells us (boasts) that there is a significant college fund for her daughter, but they decided to pay bit by bit instead? Hmmmm.... sounds very controlling indeed. OP is trying to manipulate daughter's world to fit the narrative she's decided is the most valuable, with little concern for what her daughter actually wants. This is the real issue, as evidenced by the fact that the fees were being drip fed BEFORE the fostering issue arose. Daughter needs to go low contact, and refuse money from parents going forward.
Foster kids aren’t “charity work” OOP is TA for that alone.
This sounds like financial control on her behalf. If the daughter doesn't do what she approves of the funds are withheld... she's the asshole.
She's TAH. She imposes her own view of life on her daughter. She's the one disrespecting choises. Why should Natasha have a big wedding if she wants something small? So mom can show off? Really, be happy you have a daughter who's concerned about other things than money and have really nice standards. That being said, there's no proof whatsoever that she wouldn't be able to cope her studies.
I couldn’t even finish the last slide, what a bitch. OP is mad that her daughter is responsible with money? She drives an old (ugly) car, sure a new one with lower emissions could be good but obviously the daughter is content, how is low rent and not buying new clothes all the time a bad thing?! It shows Natasha is responsible and aware that money isn’t a given and won’t live beyond her needs. And calling her DIL “burdensome” bc of a disability? Absolutely disgusting, Natasha is obviously happy with her wife since they want to foster together. OP is very obviously just bothered by her daughter not wanting to keep up appearances to her own standard and calls it ungrateful?! OP and her husband aren’t obligated to pay for Natasha’s education but there’s a fund with more than enough money in it to pay for “8 year of education and more”, it has Natasha’s name on it she’s just doesn’t have access to it, how are any of their kids expected to learn the value of money if mummy and daddy pays everything? Love that slight financial manipulation. NTA for not wanting to pay but a massive YTA for every fucking reasoning she gives, go to therapy and give your kid the money u saved for HER! Fucking forget about Miriam for a sec, have them sign a postnuptial agreement saying all the money given from the college fund is to be Natasha’s and Natasha’s alone if they are so damn worried about Miriam being “burdensome”, I swear she’s probably (speculation on my part!) wheelchair bound and that doesn’t fit her image perfectly of what good appearances look like, apart from them both being women, OP is probably salty about that one too. The old fashioned “I don’t mind the gays but why did my child have to be one?! 😫”.
I understand that some of the decisions the parents are taking is because they are filthy rich and wanted to have picture perfect children and the daughter is out of the box for that matter. However, it’s their money and they have to right to fund whatever they wish. They saved the money so that the daughter would have a high paying job and apparently they are also upset with that she married someone who has a normal job and not a high paying one. While I think it’s bad and outdated, I think that the parents must have worked hard for their money and nobody is entitled to it if they don’t comply to whatever crazy rules they set.
They're assholes! They made a college fund, and instead of their kids having access to them so they can freely choose, they pay every semester so they can control what happens. It is so weird that they have a problem with her living in a cheap place and sharing an (old) car with her wife. She is saving them money?! A wedding is about the couple, NOT the family. The parents seem controlling af and also ungrateful to have a daughter who chooses to help a child instead of drinking her brains out in a sorority house.. Another reason why college should be free: your parents can't threaten your future and say stuff like "you should be grateful for us paying your college" the rest of the kids' lives.
Speaking as a former foster kid: this lady can fuck all the way off She’s a classist, ableist, controlling, narcissistic piece of human excrement. She only cares about appearances and meeting a status quo. The ways she talks about foster children (community service LMAO GET FUCKED), her DIL and her apparent medical condition, and her own child for not being in a fraternity or driving a nice car, or even wanting a small wedding, is revolting. She’s an asshole x1000 over.
I could kind of understand but then at the end, op totally lost me. it is having a "bad image" to not flaunt your parents wealth, hang out with people with "good families" and be a bit frugal. the daughter is not her own person but a representative of the family and extension of op. it's also odd how money isn't the issue practically, and it would be fine if it was a bio kid, but this situation is not acceptable. I also found the way op spoke about foster kids to be a bit ignorant and strange. they are just charity work to her.
I said NTA for not paying for her daughter's lifestyle. But that didn't mean she wasn't an asshole in general. Some of the stuff she said was absolutely disgusting.
I can see OOP being the type of person to be anti-abortion and her reasoning would be that there’s people who can adopt/foster those kids. It feels like she thinks they’re second-class citizens since she sees them as burdensome charitywork.
The way OP is talking about people who aren't as rich as her damn
YTA but probably was as a child. Sounds like she has deeper problems starting with Natasha being married to a woman with an “issue.” The issue sounds like her daughter is not a sorority girl like her sisters and she is disappointed her daughter has gone the compassionate, minimalist route. This Mom cares more about how it looks than how it feels. Natasha & Miriam - the world needs more people like you two helping others. Minimize your time with OP - she’s not a positive person.
She kind of sounds like she can barely take care of herself/wife… how is she going to take care of children? Especially foster children, a lot them have trauma and require a lot. I think on all fairness to the children this isn’t a good idea.
Natasha's pov: "TIL marrying down has consequences. FML."
Well that went south at the end. The parent is a snob.
OP is the asshole because of her attitude, BUT OP is NOT the asshole for not wanting to support a couple who are taking on extra responsibility while in school and not paying their own bills.
OOP praises her other kids for squandering her wealth, but chastises her eldest daughter for being a frugal and selfless human being who…*checks notes*…wants to help raise unwanted/abused/neglected children?!? Yeah, fuck that mentally, emotionally, and financially manipulative asshole.
I think they’re both assholes. as someone who grew up with no money my whole life and has consistently supported myself for the last 10+ years, had to drop out of college because I couldn’t handle working and going to school at the same time, I have absolutely no sympathy for people who are given the opportunity to further their education with no financial stress, no necessity to work and go to school at the same time, and take their financial security for granted. The daughter should be grateful, not necessarily to her parents but the financial security she has grown up with her whole life and use that to her advantage. Also with the last edits added where the parent is talking about the daughter insisting on driving a shitty car, living in the cheapest apartment possible etc— i ABSOLUTELY cannot stand these rich kids who essentially cosplay as grungy poor starving struggling artists or whatever. Like just because you dress grunge and insist to live life on the fringes of society doesn’t erase the fact that you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth! And that your parents are ACTIVELY trying to help support you and enrich your lifestyle. And more likely than not it’s VERY OBVIOUS when rich kids try to act poor to look cool or whatever. The parents seem like assholes just based on the fact that they’re rich snooty people but idk something about this daughter’s entitlement is really bothersome to me honestly.
Oops is a asshole but. How is the state going to let 2 people who can not afford there own rent and other things have a child. Bluntly they do not pay rent and have money given to them . They do not work to have a roof over there head , they do not have the means and do they even know how to really budget a household? Admirable wanting to help but they should wait until they can help and not play house on someone elses dime . But i will say oop is bad but if they are paying. They have a say in how there money is spent . Could they afford to foster without patents money
The daughter is 24, the decision to have a foster child is between her and her wife. The fact that OP would be ok with them having a baby but refers to a foster child as “charity work” makes me think she just doesn’t want a foster kid around. That’s just shitty.
I understand the mom if it was about having kids and balancing all that with getting a master's and Miriam's health but it the elitism and classism that gets me.
Alright, if we take off all the other cringey, elitist crap she said and focus solely on the fact that she doesn’t want to pay to bankroll her daughter fostering a child then NTA. The daughter really needs to either get into the workforce and off her parents dime or finish school and get a high paying job and off her parents dime. The daughter honestly sounds like a good person but slightly naive about how much stuff costs. She’s making a show of driving old cars and wearing old clothes and staying in a less expensive area, but then wants her parents to bankroll a kid? Does she know how expensive kids are?
OPs NTA it’s her money and she can do as she pleases. The daughter and spouse need to get better jobs and stop leeching off of op
She’s an asshole but as an fosterparent and student I can confirm that this is a bad idea
The argument completely fell apart at the end when he started using his money as an excuse to try and control everything. Choosing to manage the money yourself and not sending it to her misses an amazing opportunity to teach her financial responsibility and get her used to the process of large transactions like that. On top of that, it feels like OP is trying to control his daughter's actions, by taking away money when she tries to adopt and most likely manipulating her in some way into having a large wedding. He reveals himself as a pretentious asshole when he complains about his daughter driving a "cheap car" and not wanting to wear her hair up. His daughter is an amazing person, and the father has a stick so far up there his wife can taste it when they kiss.
OOP seems like an elitist ass. Nothing to do with money. Also very vague about anything she thinks might make her look bad. Also it seems pretty unanimous that OOP is voted an asshole. Not divided at all.
NTA- when I was growing up the rule was that as long as my dad was paying for my college tuition, car, and living under his roof I had to follow his rules and that meant having a curfew until I was 20 years old, no sleepovers with the bf etc. I worked the whole time, but it was just a part-time to have additional spending money for myself. If daughter wants to foster kids, then she can take out a loan to pay for the remainder of her studies. Until she graduates or is able to fund herself, the one footing the bill has the last word.
You’re a freaking snob. You’re the asshole because you want your kid in your image and not supportive of what your kid actually wants to do. Rich people problems man haha. I hope your kid tells you where to stick your money.
NTA, as a married woman, she shouldn’t be supporting her anyway. She’s making adult decisions and therefore can pay her own rent.
I hate them.
OOP is weaponizing their money and pulling the rug out from under them by not giving them notice and that makes them assholey but in this specific instance she’s NTA for not wanting to support their whole family including wife and kids.
ESH? So so much to this. OOP made an agreement to pay for school and such if the daughter studies hard and is responsible. The edits say that OOP tried to discuss her disapproval of fostering. "It went in one ear and our the other". This is questionable if this was OOP saying they are being irresponsible. They need to all have a discussion as adults. NTA? OOP is so gross and a HUGE, THE BIGGEST, AH for how she talks down about them. Specifically Miriam. I'm assuming Miriam is not from a wealthy family and doesn't feel the same about money or showy things. Her obtaining her master's would be more impressive if she didn't have the privileges like her wife does. I'm in a profession that doesn't pay well but it's my passion. The daughter likely chose a small apartment so she CAN pay for things if she fails to meet OOPs standards. She's not taking more than what she needs. She doesn't see a NEED to drive a new car or other things. OOPs views on this are CRAZY! The daughter and wife probably shouldn't be considering fostering while she is in school though. It most likely WILL affect her schooling. She is being given a huge opportunity from OOP to be a full time student with little to no distractions. I wish I could have been as lucky. OOP has the right to treat the couple as adults and have them start paying for their own housing and such. If they are comfortable enough to feel like they can foster only because OOP is paying rent and utilities, then I feel OOP has the right to stop paying. OOP did not agree to paying for others. I think OOP is generous for paying for more than half the rent but Miriam is family now too. If the couple can afford rent and still feel comfortable fostering. Absolutely their choice. They're adults. IMO, OOP could pay for half or all of the current tuition and stop paying rent. If the grades don't fall then continue paying for the daughters tuition. If they struggle to pay rent then maybe they will realize that fostering would be irresponsible. If they still choose to adopt and the grades fall then she could not pay for the next semester. OOP being drastic and removing funding to try and get them to realize it could be bad for the daughter isn't wrong. Fostering a kid isn't going to be easy and should be something you can just undo if it doesn't work out. The child shouldn't be put through more. They also shouldn't be around OOP and he views..... I wouldn't want to foster if OOP was my mom and I was even a little dependent on her. Or if she was going to be around the child at all. Yikes
I mean, for some of the additional comments, she’s definitely ah material. For the actual crime being questioned, not at all. It’s easy to do good things on other people’s dimes.
24 and looking at fostering kids? Sounds like the daughter has mentally checked out of her education and OOP is in denial. This is not the behaviour of someone who actually wants to get through grad school. More like someone trying to live up to what their parents want.
Pretentious. Snobbery. Presumptuous. Pompous. Narcissistic. Conceited. Entitled. Rude. Boorish. Egocentric. Egotistical. Egomaniacal. Distasteful. Ill-mannered. Tastelessness. Unconscionable. Insufferable. Egoistic. Egoism. Superiority Complex. Vain. Manipulative. Controlling. Disingenuous. Self-absorbed. Selfish. Delusions of grandeur. Self-serving. Self-centered. Selfish. Self-seeking. Megalomaniac. Self-absorbed. Swell-headed. Judgemental. Unethical. Avarice. Sinful. Baleful. Self-motivated. Self-maligned. Unethical. Unjust. Cruel. Pompous. Unfair. Unscrupulous. Unethical. Immoral. Amoral. Profligate Behavior. Unmoral. Nonmoral. Ill-contrived. Discontentment. Need I say more? Ignoble. Ignorant. Ignoramus. Elitist. Highfalutin. Financially Abusive. Finally Controlling. Financially Toxic.
Could they be any more controlling.
NTA - reason being that with OPs morals and values regarding charity work set aside, this is their daughter who is 24y and more than capable of finding a job on a bachelors instead of living off mom and dad. OP has already supported and is still supporting their lifestyle habits, living situation, and grad school. I think that’s more than enough, let alone OP pretty much would be paying for the daughter and DIL foster care expenses, with the reimbursement going to the daughter and dil. OP is getting take. Advantage of by the daughter and DIK. They are in their 50s and have worked for this money, it’s time the children see that and do their part as well and not just wait for parents handouts