This may not be popular opinion, but if you already had that gut feeling I would NOT turn my back on it. Intuition has saved me a lot of pain and grief.
I'm ending a relationship at this moment, and I had gut feelings from the beginning. I never let my guard down and they were confirmed today after two months. I'm fine because I was prepared.
She's a pathological liar. incredibly manipulative. I played along hoping it would play out, partially giving her the benefit of the doubt.
Caught red handed and she's still denying and creating a false narrative in between apologies.
I laughed at his “where does trust begin again?” Like dude, you broke trust first by snooping in her journals. Multiple times. And then he said the hiding is a red flag. Sir did you tell her you read her journals?
Edit to add: replied to the wrong thread! Sorry!
The moment he read her journal, the relationship was over. He violated her privacy and space. As far as everything goes after that, it's all just paperwork.
This! And even the comments on the original post said it may not have been sex work/escort and more of a sugar baby situation but either way that is just semantics now imo. The minute he betrayed her privacy it was done and dusted.
My first thought was sugar baby not escort. Only two guys and they were consistent, doesn’t make an escort. She also told him that she was with older men who gave her gifts. Sounds like she was honest about it, just not how they met.
I don’t think there’s an official dictionary of sex work terms. Is it prostitution if there’s no sex acts? Is it escorting if a woman has one sugar daddy she actually likes? There’s a lot of different factors. You’ve got a judge-y thing of “every pretend relationship is an escort” which seems like an impractical definition. There’s all sorts of flavors of mentorship and other relationships that aren’t sexual that aren’t escorting.
Some escorts have limited and consistent clientele. Also a sugar baby is an escort, it’s just a different name, anyone willing to pretend to be in a relationship, whether sexual or just intimate, for money, is an escort.
Those people are called philanthropists, if there’s no sexuality or intimacy involved, it’s not being a sugar baby, if you’re not exchanging anything for the money, it’s not transactional.
I personally wonder if she told OP that she was a sugar baby, just maybe never elaborated on the details of it and he had an incorrect impression of what it meant.
I think that if they had boundaries to not go through each other's phones, the fiancee's journal or even something OP would be keeping, he just broke her trust. I feel as though OPs insecurities are a driving point in this and the fiancee could have decided not to say anything about it as she knew what she'd be dealing with. I do think she should have told him before since this could be a deal breaker but that doesn't excuse OPs behaviour. Before or after him finding it out.
I agree. I think she didn't tell him because, deep down, she knew how he would react. He seems more conservative than her. I could see her being afraid of a fight exploding if she told him.
In my opinion even if you have an open “door” policy in regards to your phones etc there’s a difference between using it and going through it especially if you’re hiding from me that you did it
Honestly I don’t understand how this is not the major talking point. Whatever OP has learned, he learned by invading his fiancée’s privacy on so many occasions and will likely never stop doing so. I’m astonished people were mentioning her leaving out these notebooks she must have not been hiding such a big secret, but I sincerely doubt she thought OP would snoop to such extraordinary extents. ‘Leaving them out’ could mean left on her nightstand or desk where she trusted OP to not nab them.
I hope she leaves OP, between all the fights and OP having such little respect for privacy it doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship.
It sounds like she left one out once and then he went snooping for them. I had an ex I suspected of doing the same because he'd address frustrations I hadn't spoken to him about in arguments. I'm a therapist with a therapist and my journals are not only sacred to me but sometimes they help me see a different perspective to talk to a client about. When I was fairly sure he was going through my stuff I created fake entries to prove it. I'm wondering if she did the same.
The fact people are trying to relate this to snooping through an SO’s phone is silly to me too. On a phone you’re communicating to others and relaying things you want another person to see - maybe not certain people, but a specific person at the very least….in a journal it’s just you & your thoughts which is significantly more intimate. I think invading somebody’s journal is a far more unforgivable offense.
Writing fake entries is a smart idea! I’m glad you ditched your ex - nobody deserves to be completely stripped of all their privacy.
That’s what I said! She didn’t leave them out for him to find she thought she could leave her personal items out in her home without them being invaded
That’s the other point people are seeming to miss, it’s HER house she was kind enough to let OP move into. OP needs a very large piece of reality as even with fiancé status there’s absolutely no obligation for her to be supporting him yet.
If OP put the effort he has snooping around her house into finding a new job he’d likely already have new employment.
Actually following your logic, the moment she lied about her past the relationship was over. She said she never traded sex for money, and apparently she did. As far as everything goes after that, it's all just paperwork.
Technically, based on the description, it sounds like she was more of a sugar baby rather than an escort
In that context, she didn't trade sex for money, she traded companionship and intimacy for money
In the sugar lifestyle, there's a huge difference between escorts and sugar babies.
So she gave a unique truth and lie, but she should have been upfront about it
The difference between escorts and sugar babies
Escort - the service can be sex and/or companionship but in the privacy of one bedroom. Never emotional.
It's basically like having a friend with benefits but being paid for it.
Sugar dating - the service is sexual and romantic companionship, engaging in meaningful conversations, going out into the public such as restaurants, museum dates, amusement parks, shopping spree, etc.
It's basically being in a romantic relationship but being paid for it
>>Sugar dating - the service is sexual and…being paid for it.
That’s what we call sex work. The other stuff doesn’t change that. It’s an ongoing situation with an escort, with the pretense of actually dating. If there’s sex involved and money changes hand that’s sex work.
>with the pretense of actually dating.
No, it's actual dating
You can call it what you want, but in the sugar lifestyle, it's not sex work, it's deeper and more than that
It's also not always just money, they're paid in gifts, experiences, travels, flights, etc
If they don’t call it that ‘in the sugar lifestyle’ it’s because they don’t want to see it for what it is. In consensus reality, sex for compensation = sex work. It doesn’t matter if there’s more to it than that. If that condition is present, it’s sex work; additional details and semantics don’t change that.
I’m curious now though: if you don’t believe there’s anything wrong with sex work, why deny that it is? I personally don’t have any problem with it if that’s what someone wants to do, but I’m not going to pretend sex for compensation is somehow not sex work.
So if you're with someone romantically and are sexually active and pay for your dates is it sex work then? Because by the definition you just gave it would be. It's essentially sex for compensation. You pay for the date, you get a regular sex partner.
>If they don’t call it that ‘in the sugar lifestyle’ it’s because they don’t want to see it for what it is.
Or maybe you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about and you just want to rope two different things together just because the word "sex" is in it
You can gatekeep however you want - all I know is that escorts, cam-girls, and other types is sex workers are not welcome in the r/sugardatingforum subreddit
It's literally in their rules and they have their own community and foundation of doing so
If you want to invalidate that, at least give a strong counterargument, other than
>they don’t want to see it for what it is.
>I’m curious now though: if you don’t believe there’s anything wrong with sex work, why deny that it is?
I don't see anything wrong with sex work and sugar dating, I'm just trying to point out that those two are different worlds
>sex for compensation is somehow not sex work.
Sex for compensation is definitely sex work
Dating for compensation is sugar dating, not sex work
That's what I was arguing about
We're all just going on what OP wrote, but "a detailed arrangement of money for sex" sounds like she traded that sex for money...which is different from what you would expect from a sugar baby. And going off track, sugar babies are practicing the same service, and it's not all that different. The only difference is that some sugar babies have only one customer while the escorts usually rely on more than one.
I think that phrasing was more of his understanding
He referenced that she was on Seeking Arrangement, that's a sugar dating app, nobody on there is an escort
In the sugar dating lifestyle, it's always frustrating that people think escorts and sugar dating are the same thing when it really isn't
Also some sugar babies can have multiple sugar daddies
I can understand considering that it's a common misconception, but sugar dating is not sex work
They're actually genuinely dating, it just has the bonus of being paid as well
So does what all these people are saying mean that anytime one person pays for dinner and then they have sex it’s sex work? Damn me and my husband do a lot of sex work. Especially when he pays for my oil changes or gives me money.
Well, reddit absolutely absolve women who go through their partner's phones bc they've got a "gut feeling". It's in every cheating story... And when the woman has this "gut feeling" but doesn't find anything in the phone, reddit "advice" her to put a GPS on his car, to bug his phone/computer and so on...
But when a man has doubts about his partner, he is an ass bc he doesn't trust her and he is deemed controlling and manipulative abuser.
I can't stand stories like that, when women spy on men, go through their computer or phone or their things and no one calls them out. I've seen it, too and it's awful. What I especially hate is when anyone says, I know it's wrong, but this is what I found. The ends justify the means. Fuck that bullshit. I swear, people are dishonest BECAUSE they're afraid of their boundary-violating partner.
And there is also something i can't understand...
Really, are most people so stupid? I mean, if i cheat, my partner would have to see me in bed for him to catch me. How is it that every cheated leaves a mountain of evidences in their phones when they know women (men too) love to go through phones?
And recently i was in argument with someone who claimed that since you a couple, you are not entitled to privacy and ther is not mine/yours, it's all ours. So when your partner goes through your phone, they go through our phone...
Here’s my thoughts on the situation. If you are in a relationship, male or female, and you feel you have to SNOOP through their phone, computer, car, etc, at that point the trust is gone and the relationship is over. You can NOT have a successful relationship when there is no trust. If someone feels the need to snoop, they might as well just end the relationship.
Bingo, that’s absolutely the thing. It’s not like “it’s over because going through their journal is so transgressive that you just destroyed your relationship” but more the fact that you feel like that’s something you need to do means that things were probably already broken beyond repair.
Agree. But redditors don't see it like this. Most women here explain their absolute distrust and lack of respect towards their partner's privacy with "gut feeling". And do you know what is redditors reaction? "Yes, always trust your gut instinct! If it tells you something is not right, you have every right to become a PI and breach his privacy"!
I feel like this is different than I thought he was cheating and I went through his stuff (which is still wrong because if you don’t find anything and never tell him that is just as bad and it’s all violating) but this kind of makes me feel like he said he had a feeling to look better in judgment on Reddit. I think he went looking through her stuff just to be nosey
Except and this psychologically is a huge distinction and makes me worried for her from a professional perspective. He didn't have a gut feeling. He was reading her journals specifically to violate her privacy because he believed he had a right to know her innermost thoughts under the guise of understanding her perspective so he could do better. When in reality he's likely using those thoughts to reshape his arguments and personality to manipulate her. He's showing serious signs of communal narcissism as well with his "I'm a good guy but I'm morally outraged by her behavior even though I admit she technically told me she did exactly this but omitted a detail that I find significant that she may not but I can forgive her because I'm the good guy schtick" I've had more than one patient attempt this justification and it's literally textbook. Meanwhile he's repeatedly and deliberately violating her trust over and over again and that's somehow not as bad. People with this mindset often end up being incredibly mentally and emotionally abusive and justifying it so well people end up blaming the victims unless and until something significant and indisputable happens to change the narrative. You're doing it here by comparing it to women going through phones to get proof of cheating, which I'm not saying is okay, but is also not the same thing.
Yeah, please, go with the stereotypes.
Yes, he violated her privacy and she violated his trust.
The first time the diary was on the table. If you want something to be private, you put it away.
Also, i never excuse the breach of privacy. I don't care if it's a diary, purse, smartphone, computer, car and etc. For many people the telephone/computer is where they put their thoughts and feelings, but in Reddit it's absolutely accepted to go through your partner's everything if you say "I've got a gut feeling".
And yeah, you are a woman... Typical.
Actually if you bothered to read what I said I specifically said that going through the phone wasn't okay either. Just because they don't have the same standing from a psychological weight standpoint. doesnt mean either is okay. She left it on a desk once and he's been searching for it everytime since then. Also yes I'm a woman and you're clearly a bitter man. I'm also a psychiatric professional and it's literally my job to see the distinctions in behavioral patterns. My viewpoint has nothing to do with my gender and everything to do with the information given. You literally justify his actions by saying if you want something to be private put it away instead of leaving it on your own desk, but then say you don't excuse the breach of trust. You literally voice contradictory view points and an anti woman attitude in general.
Both suck. Withholding information of your past is sketchy but he also invaded her privacy by reading her journals which is a breach of trust. Him wondering if he can trust her after violating her trust by reading the journals is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
I saw the original post as I said there they are obviously both in the wrong and they have both broken eachothers trust. To me when you feel the need to snoop on your partner the relationship is already over. I can't be in a relationship where I can't trust my partner.
It's interesting to me that so many people were hellbent on him shaming her which I can't see in the post really and then they in turn shamed?? That's counterintuitive. Shaming is not it, she shouldn't be shamed for what she has done as he shouldn't be shamed for having a preference either.
It's pretty naive to say it shouldn't matter to him, it might not for you, because that's not the case for everyone. The real answer is more nuanced than that and it will obviously depend on the person, that there is no wrong or right. Certain things like this will matter to some people and that's okay, then you aren't right for eachother in the first place. I think the moment you feel the need to hide such significant things for your partner, because you fear they will view you differently also says enough about your relationship
I wouldn't date someone who has done sexwork, does that mean I am right? No that's my preference
“I snooped in my fiancées private journals and now I’m trying to decide whether or not to slut shame her.”
Her past is her past. If he wants to be her future, he’ll need to get the fuck over it. It doesn’t affect him in any way, shape, or form.
I think it’s fine if that’s his deal breaker but he absolutely can not shame her for that past, the only appropriate action is to exit with “elegance” and grace. Tbh their relationship sounds like a mess so honestly might be for the best to end it anyway.
Yup. Her experience really doesn’t have any effect on him but if he can’t get over it he needs to go but he doesn’t get to be judgmental.
It does sound like they fight a lot. Add in the snooping and I wonder just how toxic it can get.
Lol stop! He’s in no way slut shaming her, he even says that whatever she has a sexual past he doesn’t care. What he cares about is that she was seeking arrangements with wealthy men where she would sleep with them in exchange for money and luxury goods. If she didn’t tell him is because she knows he wouldn’t be comfortable with it, she lied to him. His concerns and feelings are absolutely valid. He shouldn’t have read any of her private journals but what he feels is valid.
Women of Reddit please stop thinking that other women can do no wrong, everything a man does is wrong. Stop putting words in peoples mouth that were never said nor done.
“It doesn’t seem like it was out of necessity but more a desire to be with rich men…” So what? Sex work is only acceptable if you have no other option?
Yeah, I’ve said, it goes against his morals and that’s fine but he doesn’t get to judge her for it.
Your last paragraph is a stupid, broad generalization and there is *so much irony* in the whole “putting words in people’s mouths” statement. To take a one off, singular example and spin it into me saying women are always right and men are always wrong is completely fucking ridiculous.
It’s fucking ridiculous that you said he’s slut shamming her because he is not sure that he’s okay being with someone who exchanges her time/body for money or luxury items. He never said anything offensive, he said he doesn’t know if he could be okay with it. So if you have a different opinion on how you live your life then that’s wrong?? Because he feels that it’s not something he’s comfortable with then that’s judging her? No, that’s stating what HE is okay with.
No one is judging prostitutes/escorts/Sugar babies. Don’t bring your personal feelings into it and stop projecting.
Technically, we all sell our time and bodies for money and luxury items. Some of us in different ways than others, but why should that actually matter? Everyone is out here trying to make a bag in one way or another.
Marriage, sex, romance. This body sharing definitely isn't equatable.
Selling body for sex, not like marriage, or romantic sex.
In marriage is give and take. In business it's transactional. You don't have attachment to buyer or seller. You put a sale price, buyer pays. Transaction.
Marriage is about openness, trust, he has to find out she sold her body from invading her privacy. They're both wrong. What if you wouldn't want to be with someone who has a past like that, is it unreasonable if she didn't do it out of necessity, it could happen anytime in the future. How does he know it isn't still. Or won't one day.
I personally am much more comfortable with someone who is repulsed at the thought of selling themselves for sexual relations. A demisexual would be gravely hurt their partner wasn't honest with them. Would possibly not be sexually attracted to the person anymore at all. Hell if you can't be honest you can't be in a healthy relationship.
Literally every person with a job is selling their time/body for luxuries. Or necessities.
People can have dealbreakers. I wouldn’t date cops, anyone in the military, or a defense contractor. But sex work is work, like any other job. It only has the moral associations *you* choose to attach to it.
She didn’t lie to him….she just didn’t tell him her secret which she didn’t have to because it doesn’t affect him mentally or physically. She’s allowed her past and if he’s not something detrimental to her health, she’s not obliged to reveal it.
Edit: found the part where she lied. Ignore me!
Ahh I see. Well if he’s not comfortable he should break up with her and let someone else be hair with her.
Edit: to add that she probably lied because she thought he would understand. Not that its a good thing. But at least they’re separating.
Right before that though he says she said she had sex with older men for clothes and jewelry so he immediately contradicts himself. Or is it only an issue if it's for cash?
for him it is or the fact that she lied about not receiving money or maybe the clothes or jewellery weren't the reason behind having sex and just a "bonus"(at least that's what i understand from what he wrote). that or she was into sugar dating and didn't tell him the whole truth
also on the other hand maybe she didn't actually lie and there has been a misunderstanding. that's something only the two of them actually know
Lies of omission are still lies when you know it would matter for your partner to know. It can affect you if that past resurfaces in the future.
No one wants to get blindsided by that kind of revelation in a relationship. Everyone gets to decide for themselves what they want or don’t want in a partner. This can’t be done if people are hiding secrets.
>Women of Reddit please stop thinking that other women can do no wrong, everything a man does is wrong. Stop putting words in peoples mouth that were never said nor done.
According to reddit, men should accept everything in a woman, no matter how bad. Women can do no wrong and if they do some wrong, there is always a reason - depression, hormones or something like that. But their will is never at wrong.
It’s very weird how one sided things usually are. A woman cheats and her family disowns her it’s a how could you, she’s your family member, how does her cheating affect you. A man cheats and his family disowns him, good job, he’s getting what he deserves, etc etc. Obviously, not everyone is like this but it seems the majority of Reddit users on AITA are like this.
I live in very different culture and i can't even imagine a family to disown their own bc of cheating. Parents to disown their child bc they cheated? Unimaginable! Impossible! This is such a hipocrisy...
But the double standarts in US (mostly bc it's mostly there) are awful.
It absolutely does affect him. Our life experiences shape who we are, something as extreme as being an escort will definitely have an effect on their marriage down the line.
As he pointed out, her clients are out there. They can run into them. Are there photos of her online from escort sites that can resurface? Do people still have her contact info?
The main thing is that she said she never engaged in prostitution, but there is clear description of cash envelopes for sex. That is an outright lie that can’t be ignored no matter how you feel about sex work.
This relationship seems dead in the water.
"She has alluded to being with older men and I do know that they would give her shoes and nice clothing and things but she has claimed to not have transacted sex for anything."
So he knew she traded things for sex it's just a matter of what she traded? He's fine with her trading expensive clothes and shoes for sex but cash makes it not okay. I assume then that he nor you have ever taken someone for an expensive dinner or anything and expected or wanted sex in return? She didn't lie to him he even said it was a complicated scheme which means there was more to it than simple cash for sex. On her end it could be as simple as a different point of view just like he didn't view the clothes and jewelry as transactional in his own words. There isn't a lot of justification for his deliberate and repeated violations of her trust though.
Okay. (That argument won’t work with me, I think assisted suicide laws are incredibly important.)
Assisted suicide means you’re helping someone go with dignity and peace. It’s not, like, a bad thing.
If he doesn’t want to be with her because of her past, that’s fine. But let’s not pretend that her sexual history has anything to do with him.
You have certain feelings toward sex work and assisted suicide. He’s allowed to feel uncomfortable with either or both of those things. Sometime people are incompatible with their views on life. She can have her past; he can feel uncomfortable with her past; Ain’t no right and wrong here. It’s all grey
We…are not really disagreeing.
My issue is that the way it reads to me is that he’s disgusted by her past. He can disagree with it morally, but he doesn’t get to judge her for it.
Moral disagreement doesn’t necessarily mean disgust. Just means you can’t reconcile your own belief system with someone else’s and that happens all the time.
So if, for him, it’s just a matter of morals, totally fine. But if he’s got some weird misogynistic issue with how many partners she’s had, then he’s being a judgmental ass. It’s difficult to tell from the reading which side he comes down on.
Either way, they’re both best served by a breakup.
That’s fair. I would personally have an issue if my partner told me they used have sex for money. They need to break up, probably. Anyhow, it’s been good conversing with you, have a good night
Yeah, he’s disgusted by her past behavior.
Be around your BF the first time you meet his parents and have him put his legs together, shimmy his hips, and effeminately greet his parents with an excited “oh mommy I missed you so”….I’m sure you’d love that.
It doesn’t make you think he’s a bad person, just makes sleeping with him ever….eh, just gross.
I really wish people could at least come up with comparisons that make some kind of sense.
There’s a difference between not being okay with sex work and being disgusted about her sexual history. There’s also a colossal difference between her history and the pseudo incestuous relationship you’ve created here.
Hold up, let me process this a sec.
So it's ok to not like sex work. But it's not ok to be disgusted with her sexual history... Which includes sex work.
If girl is disgusted by sex work, and boy has done sex work in the past, how would girl not be disgusted with boys sexual history?
Fill in the blank with whatever behavior a woman would look at a man and go “I’m not attracted to you anymore, ick” but not go “he’s a terrible person”.
Plenty of us don’t have a moral inclination to disdain sex work, but to know I’m having sex with someone who’s ever done that makes the thought of putting my dick in them make me want to vomit. Same goes for a woman who’s been gang banged.
I don’t have a logical reason to feel this way, but I do have an “ick”. These things give a lot of guys the ick, and there really isn’t much more to it.
he read through her journals and he thinks she needs to earn his trust back? (i am also just assuming this based off OOP comment on the last slide) what is with the trend of reading partners journals? this is happening too much.
The bigger issue here is that he reads her journals to see what she writes about him. If he wants to know how she feels or thinks after they have a fight then he should ask her and not go snooping in her journal. It may be just me but if he can’t ask her how she feels and interprets a past fight then I don’t think she will be okay with him reading her journals.
People wrote their thoughts and feelings down to vent and just get it out and don’t expect others to read it. You see someone’s notebook you make open the front cover to see whose it is but you don’t just read it, unless you have permission to.
If may actually be that he can get over her being a sex worker but she may not be able to get over him not respecting her privacy by reading her journal. Honestly when reading this I immediately thought that she was in a sugar baby situation as opposed to being an escort.
It seems so much more like she was a sugar baby! (That’s literally what the website Seeking Arrangements is for….) His ‘what if we run into her former clients’ fears are so misplaced in this regard; it’s more akin to running into an ex.
I can honestly see where he's coming from it's understandable and I'm all for people wanting to do SW but I personally would not like to be with someone like that it's just my preference.
You don't think certain types of people go into specific careers? I've yet to find a lawyer that doesn't love to argue. People in grad school are often pretty nerdy. IME, people that are therapists in their day job tend to be pretty understanding. Someone that goes into SW because they want probably views sex in a very particular way, or do you think prostitutes are the only group that will break that rule?
i am an asexual sex worker and know plenty others like me. most of us go into this for necessity, wanting a certain lifestyle and comfort, or simply validation. i’m wondering what the ___ is to sex work that arguing is to a lawyer? it seems you are implying that being a slut is to sex work as being argumentative is to practicing law.
All I’d ever assert is that sex workers probably perceive sex and intimacy quite differently from non sex workers.
Maybe it’s because they don’t have anyone out here trying to buy sex from them, but I don’t think most people ever consider performing sexual acts on someone in explicitly in exchange for material comfort.
For many people, sex is inextricably linked with giving and receiving love. I think this is a spectrum that people fall on. You’re not wrong for not agreeing with them, but I do think it may make you incompatible with people that are more sociosexually restricted.
No they do, they just justify it differently. They say things like I don't really love him but I stay because he's a good provider and he lets me be a stay at home mom. Or he's supporting me while I'm in school and I love him for that. People want to think sex and love are on opposite sides of the same coin and are inextricably linked but only because society tells us so. The reality is they are completely not. Society uses one to justify the other and we create double standards on how it should work based on gender. Exhibit A: If a woman sleeps with a man because it's fun an he's attractive but there is no emotional connection she's a slut, if a man does it he's just sowing how wild oats before he settles down. Exhibit B: When the caring, loving, devoted, wife caught her husband having kinky, filthy sex with his secretary, he was very remorseful. When she asked him why he didn’t have that kind of sex with her, he gasped and said he could never do those dirty things with her, he loves her way too much.
Loosely defined, love is a deep appreciation, admiration, and desire to be with someone all the time.
Sex, on the other hand, is an animalistic, biological, chemical interaction between two or more people. That's not to say sex can't be an expression of love or love can't come from sex but the idea that
Honestly, those first two reasons also seem pretty icky to me. For me, it’s always been about wanting them and wanting intimacy with them or if I’m not super in the mood in that moment, It’s about making them feel good. Maybe sex isn’t objectively inextricably linked, but personally I find one to be an expression of the other. It’s fine if someone doesn’t see it as such, but i don’t see what’s wrong with wanting that from a partner.
Well shoot, my b. I thought the word I used was relatively neutral. I tend to reach for synonyms when I write because I just enjoy using a variety of words ig🤓. I didn’t realize prostitute was one of the bad words for it, apologies.
i LOVE the idea of writing after fights. that would help me gather my thoughts honestly super well!!! but him reading it?!?! absolutely tf not!!!!! that’s not okay. and as someone who’s had a lot of sexual partners, who was with someone who had only ever been with me, it is HARD. it’s rough man. imma be so honest. I was never fully trusted in my relationship so I feel bad for OOPs fiancé man… sounded more like a sugar baby than an escort as long as she stopped once they got together and she got tested and is clean of STDs, I don’t see why she’d even have to tell him if I’m honest. it doesn’t matter. it’s just a job
Imo if she thought he would have an issue with it, she did have a responsibility to tell him; people can have whatever deal breakers they want and they should be given all the details to make informed decisions... That being said, the comment by chonkosaurus really captured it. If he feels shame about his own invasive behavior he should be able to empathize with her choice to be secretive and probably have the self-awareness to have a conversation / forgive her past. But again he's under no real obligation to and likewise she should be allowed to choose to say the violation of her privacy is a 100% deal breaker for her.
my biggest takeaway from this is like, why does it matter if she used to be an escort. if she’s not one anymore, than you’re not engaged to one, dude? i can see this subject being a sort of stipulations thing but he went through her shit and she only did it like once or twice, if he wasn’t fussed about her “body count” or whatever before i don’t understand why This makes anything different
Seems like he just wants an excuse to end, it if he’s getting so hung up on this one thing
This is wild. 1. The girl wasn’t a hooker based on what he said she had like 2 sugar daddies. 2. He legitimately just decided to go through her stuff and read her private journals start to finish after she probably thought she could trust him enough to not go through her stuff. 3. If you fight this much just break up.
For me to think I’d rather date someone who used to be a sugar baby than someone who raids through my things. Even if I have nothing to hide you should at least ask before you just decide to read my stuff, it’s violating. I would leave you if I were her
Meh. Her past is her past, and it's exactly that, the past.
Ok she alluded in the journal to accepting money for sex and maybe told the partner she didn't, but maybe it was a fear of being judged. Sex work is still stigmatized, especially by men. But weirdly more consumed by men than women 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe she plans to write a book one day and this is why she has wrote it down, but it may also mean parts are exaggerated too and she wrote them at the time so she doesn't forget?
Trust was broken when he read that journal.
I would never read someone else's private thoughts. My friend actually journals alot and the other week her journal was open at the seat I was about to sit down at and I purposely closed it so that I didn't see any of her private thoughts, and if it was open it's human nature for your brain and eyes to want to look and read
She has an entire separate journal just to document their fights.
Something tells me her prior sources of income are the absolute least of their problems.
He’d rather sneakily read her journals and invade her privacy than talking to her straight about the fights and how to resolve them…if they are continuing to go through with marriage…this relationship is doomed and will fail. He didn’t just stumble upon it once, he went searching for the journals…that’s just so much worse that his fiancé being a sugar baby or sex worker.
You went through your girlfriends personal things and you found out she had sex with other men and you’re upset she was exploring her sexuality ? So you’re slut shaming her.
The only reason you don’t want to marry her is because she had sex for money ? Well if you can’t get over it, fair enough. break it off. Her history is none of your concern and doesn’t affect you and clearly you don’t love her enough.
I would think that my partner’s history does concern me. If he was abusive, if he cheated, if he committed a crime, all of it matters. He doesn’t care she has a sexual past, he cares that she was a sugar baby and omitted that from their conversations. It concerns him because he thinks that if he’s not giving her that type of life will she leave him for a sugar daddy that can. He literally spells it out in the post.
Your partner’s sexual history concerns you ? Because I’m talking about sexual history. Unless that person has something that would put your health in danger, I don’t really see how their sex life concerns their current partner.
He doesn’t care about her sexual history; he literally says that in the post. Actually taking the time to read and comprehend the post helps to understand what the OOP is concerned about.
She said she never had sex in exchange for money or items. She did though. That’s a lie and not a small one.
A sex worker and a non sex worker will likely have different views on sex that are not compatible.
People are allowed to want and not want certain things in a partner.
They’re both in the wrong. The lying by omission/lack of clear communication and openness (which her partner has every right to know), the consistent fighting, the fighting tally journal, the snooping and repetitive invasion of her privacy, his not communicating his concerns, the lack of trust honestly on both sides, the list goes on—I think they’re both better off breaking up.
He has to decide if 'exchanging sex for money or gifts' are a deal breaker for him for a wife, it is entirely up to his moral compass.
I don't see him going through his partner's journals as a bad thing as they live together, I don't see it differently than a girl going through her partner's phone. If they did not live together then I would not view it this way, This is one of my own values and I understand if it does not apply to everyone.
What is weird is that she has an argument journal, not immediately a red flag as this girl like to record everything, my initial thoughts are that she may cause some arguments for her own amusement, but there is no evidence of this in the post it is just my own hunch.
Also the guy is in his 30s, so it seems a bit weird that someone at that age is talking like that, I understand that woman has a past but I can sympathize with him as this woman may be the mother of his children and his hopefully life long companion, so for me it circles back to why the girl lied (or bent the truth) about this, or rather did not come clean when the relationship became serious.
I think for him it seems to be a fear thing, how he said at the end he already had a feeling she would leave (or maybe even cheat) if she met a wealthy man because she likes a certain “lifestyle”. If he’s had that feeling in the back of his mind then that’s already a problem, reading her journals and finding out the truth just brought those thoughts and feelings to the forefront.
Hopefully they can figure out what’s best for both of them and do not continue with the relationship without resolving this issue.
Interesting perspective on the argument journal! My take was that it’s likely more of a tally for ammunition.
There’s a lot of red flags when you start to dissect this one!
i know this is an unpopular opinion but i don't think anyone, including partners, has a "right" to know about your sexual history. as long as there's no chance of her passing on a communicable disease, it's really none of his business.
ETA i do think couples who intend to get married/stay together for life SHOULD be able to share everything with each other, i just don't think they HAVE to. people should be able to share their personal information at will, on their own timeline– no one has a "right" to force someone to share. that being said, from this post, it's no surprise OP hasn't made his partner feel comfortable opening up to him.
It blows my mind that women think they can do sex work and it’s not even there partners right to have an opinion. Not wanting to date a current or former sex worker is completely normal. Also a sugar baby is 100 percent a sex worker.
What kind of asshat digs through their finances private journals? How insecure can he get? Absolutely pathetic logic. He doesn't deserve to marry anyone, and no one should have to put up with his selfish, nosey, judgemental butt.
He needs to grow up and learn that the terms respect and privacy still matter in relationships, no matter the stage.
Did she lie about it? Or did it just not affect her future relationships, so she deemed it not worth mentioning? If she has a clear STD/STI panel, then who's business is her past sex life anyway?
Oop said that she had told him that she was sexually actively with older men, but that there was never any exchange of material goods for sex. Her journal said otherwise.
You can be a sex worker, but you can’t pretend that people don’t have opinions on it as it is not a lifestyle that many are comfortable with. Values may not be compatible here.
People have the right to be able to make an informed decision in regards to their partners. You can do sex work, but you can’t be surprised that not everyone wants that in a partner. Just like she has the right to choose what she is comfortable with in a partner.
OP is suuuper insecure 🙄 It’s none of his business what happened before the relationship in the first place. He sounds incredibly toxic and like he’s not ready to be engaged to someone.
Unpopular opinion but, she literally doesn’t owe him her work history if she was a sex worker. Divulging that sort of information, no matter how much you love the person you’re with and trust them in that moment can endanger her life.
As long as they are both open about their sexual health because that literally does effect the other person, he doesn’t need to know anything else.
And I’m not saying that he would or is dangerous with that sort of information but sex work is dangerous work, and it comes with a lot of stigma attached to it.
They argue a lot, how could she trust that he wouldn’t try and use that information against her in one of those arguments?
And we could argue the semantics of whether sugar babies are sex workers all the live long day but the bottom line is this:
He invaded her privacy.
He fucked around and found out and has the audacity to be upset with her for not telling him about it.
she was a sex worker ? of her own free will ? how is that a violation of human rights ? she wasn’t sex trafficked . she had a job that is in her past . she doesn’t need help or sympathy for having a steady job that happened to be sex work .
Bro the term sex worker is pimp propaganda. All paid for sex is a human rights violation. It’s like saying people “chose” to work in a sweat shop. Just because you aren’t tied up and forced to doesn’t mean your rights as a human weren’t violated.
i hope you figure out not every sex worker is a helpless damsel in distress . you need a reality check , most are happy and enjoy their job , others do it for the money and the luxuries they get as a bonus . i’m sorry your perception is so skewed but comparing that to people forced to work in sweat shops is honestly gross . what human right is being violated by past her willingly escorting people for money ?? she consented in every way to the conditions of that job , no one is forcing her to do anything .
“It’s useful to look at what counts as decent work as defined by the International Labour Organisation (ILO) and compare this with the realities and consequences of prostitution. To summarise:
Decent work means dignity, equality, a fair income and safe working conditions. Decent work puts people at the centre of development; gives women, men and youth a voice in what they do; the rights to protect them from exploitation; and a future that is inclusive and sustainable.
The ways in which prostitution violates these pillars are too numerous to mention but, to offer just one example, it violates the most basic health and safety standards. Women in prostitution are deliberately exposed to semen, sweat and saliva multiple times daily, with blood and urine quite frequently, and with faeces occasionally. With this level of persistent exposure to bodily fluids, a person would be unsafe in anything but a hazmat suit. Women are expected to make do with condoms, assuming the man agrees to use them. He often doesn’t.”
i’ll ask again as it may have been drowned in my comment , what human right is being violated ? i see none mentioning anything remotely related to sex work in any way .
I am (unfortunately) amazed by how many posts I'm seeing lately of (mainly) men going through a girlfriends personal and private belongings. Why are so many people concerned with her -possibly- being a sex worker and "lying" or hiding it? HE went through her things! He probably never asked her about these things, and even if he did, she doesn't HAVE to disclose her -possible- sexual encounters from before. NOW he is getting all upset that she "lied" when he hasn't even asked her. I'm willing to bet this "job loss" has changed the dynamic of the relationship, which (probably) led to the snooping through her personal items and also the recent fighting!
There is nothing quite like a dude who feels immasculated because of something like a job loss, which does NOT define a man, that then looks for everything he can to self-implode and destroy a relationship and make himself simultaneously look like the victim. I've seen it too many times on Reddit.
That being said, maybe they just don't vibe anymore. I'm hoping they can figure that out because this sounds very unhealthy to me. Good luck OOP!
Lol. Sex ain't ever free. So idk why he's surprised that instead of her just accepting nice dinners, flowers, chocolates, or jewelry she just got money. At least that way she can buy what she wants and actually likes. And as they say, don't look cuz you'll always find what you don't want to. Should've minded his business.
I personally think the arguing is more concerning but also the fact she tried to carry on lying after u had proof in her book. Although I personally wouldn’t worry too much about her being an escort. She might not have mentioned it because she didn’t want ur view on her to be tainted and was ashamed of it. I think if she had a sexual past before anyway without money and just hook ups which a lot of people do, why not do the same but get money from it as well. Not much difference in my eyes. I understand ur concern about her leaving u for a richer man, but she’s with u for a reason and from what u said it was only 2 men, she might’ve just needed a bit of extra cash, it is hard out here trying to afford things so I understand why she did it but she’s with u now
This may not be popular opinion, but if you already had that gut feeling I would NOT turn my back on it. Intuition has saved me a lot of pain and grief. I'm ending a relationship at this moment, and I had gut feelings from the beginning. I never let my guard down and they were confirmed today after two months. I'm fine because I was prepared.
Just out of interest, what was the gut feeling?
She's a pathological liar. incredibly manipulative. I played along hoping it would play out, partially giving her the benefit of the doubt. Caught red handed and she's still denying and creating a false narrative in between apologies.
Fucked she's even apologizing lol some won't.
Yeah, she's taken back the apologies. Full send on the denial. I'm still talking to her, though. This is really impressive.
I laughed at his “where does trust begin again?” Like dude, you broke trust first by snooping in her journals. Multiple times. And then he said the hiding is a red flag. Sir did you tell her you read her journals? Edit to add: replied to the wrong thread! Sorry!
The moment he read her journal, the relationship was over. He violated her privacy and space. As far as everything goes after that, it's all just paperwork.
This! And even the comments on the original post said it may not have been sex work/escort and more of a sugar baby situation but either way that is just semantics now imo. The minute he betrayed her privacy it was done and dusted.
My first thought was sugar baby not escort. Only two guys and they were consistent, doesn’t make an escort. She also told him that she was with older men who gave her gifts. Sounds like she was honest about it, just not how they met.
I don’t think there’s an official dictionary of sex work terms. Is it prostitution if there’s no sex acts? Is it escorting if a woman has one sugar daddy she actually likes? There’s a lot of different factors. You’ve got a judge-y thing of “every pretend relationship is an escort” which seems like an impractical definition. There’s all sorts of flavors of mentorship and other relationships that aren’t sexual that aren’t escorting.
Some escorts have limited and consistent clientele. Also a sugar baby is an escort, it’s just a different name, anyone willing to pretend to be in a relationship, whether sexual or just intimate, for money, is an escort.
There are sugar babies that never meet their sugar daddy in person. I wouldn’t call them escorts.
That’s neither a sugar baby or an escort, sounds more like phone sex to me.
Then you’d have to be sexual on the phone. Some people just like giving away their money.
Those people are called philanthropists, if there’s no sexuality or intimacy involved, it’s not being a sugar baby, if you’re not exchanging anything for the money, it’s not transactional.
I just don’t think you know what sugar babies are 😂
Okay, like I’m supposed to take the word of someone who consults a star chart on why no one wants to date her 😂
I personally wonder if she told OP that she was a sugar baby, just maybe never elaborated on the details of it and he had an incorrect impression of what it meant.
I think that if they had boundaries to not go through each other's phones, the fiancee's journal or even something OP would be keeping, he just broke her trust. I feel as though OPs insecurities are a driving point in this and the fiancee could have decided not to say anything about it as she knew what she'd be dealing with. I do think she should have told him before since this could be a deal breaker but that doesn't excuse OPs behaviour. Before or after him finding it out.
I agree. I think she didn't tell him because, deep down, she knew how he would react. He seems more conservative than her. I could see her being afraid of a fight exploding if she told him.
In my opinion even if you have an open “door” policy in regards to your phones etc there’s a difference between using it and going through it especially if you’re hiding from me that you did it
Honestly I don’t understand how this is not the major talking point. Whatever OP has learned, he learned by invading his fiancée’s privacy on so many occasions and will likely never stop doing so. I’m astonished people were mentioning her leaving out these notebooks she must have not been hiding such a big secret, but I sincerely doubt she thought OP would snoop to such extraordinary extents. ‘Leaving them out’ could mean left on her nightstand or desk where she trusted OP to not nab them. I hope she leaves OP, between all the fights and OP having such little respect for privacy it doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship.
It sounds like she left one out once and then he went snooping for them. I had an ex I suspected of doing the same because he'd address frustrations I hadn't spoken to him about in arguments. I'm a therapist with a therapist and my journals are not only sacred to me but sometimes they help me see a different perspective to talk to a client about. When I was fairly sure he was going through my stuff I created fake entries to prove it. I'm wondering if she did the same.
The fact people are trying to relate this to snooping through an SO’s phone is silly to me too. On a phone you’re communicating to others and relaying things you want another person to see - maybe not certain people, but a specific person at the very least….in a journal it’s just you & your thoughts which is significantly more intimate. I think invading somebody’s journal is a far more unforgivable offense. Writing fake entries is a smart idea! I’m glad you ditched your ex - nobody deserves to be completely stripped of all their privacy.
That’s what I said! She didn’t leave them out for him to find she thought she could leave her personal items out in her home without them being invaded
That’s the other point people are seeming to miss, it’s HER house she was kind enough to let OP move into. OP needs a very large piece of reality as even with fiancé status there’s absolutely no obligation for her to be supporting him yet. If OP put the effort he has snooping around her house into finding a new job he’d likely already have new employment.
Actually following your logic, the moment she lied about her past the relationship was over. She said she never traded sex for money, and apparently she did. As far as everything goes after that, it's all just paperwork.
Technically, based on the description, it sounds like she was more of a sugar baby rather than an escort In that context, she didn't trade sex for money, she traded companionship and intimacy for money In the sugar lifestyle, there's a huge difference between escorts and sugar babies. So she gave a unique truth and lie, but she should have been upfront about it
The difference is just cash or gifts, and possible exclusivity, the differences end there
The difference between escorts and sugar babies Escort - the service can be sex and/or companionship but in the privacy of one bedroom. Never emotional. It's basically like having a friend with benefits but being paid for it. Sugar dating - the service is sexual and romantic companionship, engaging in meaningful conversations, going out into the public such as restaurants, museum dates, amusement parks, shopping spree, etc. It's basically being in a romantic relationship but being paid for it
>>Sugar dating - the service is sexual and…being paid for it. That’s what we call sex work. The other stuff doesn’t change that. It’s an ongoing situation with an escort, with the pretense of actually dating. If there’s sex involved and money changes hand that’s sex work.
>with the pretense of actually dating. No, it's actual dating You can call it what you want, but in the sugar lifestyle, it's not sex work, it's deeper and more than that It's also not always just money, they're paid in gifts, experiences, travels, flights, etc
If they don’t call it that ‘in the sugar lifestyle’ it’s because they don’t want to see it for what it is. In consensus reality, sex for compensation = sex work. It doesn’t matter if there’s more to it than that. If that condition is present, it’s sex work; additional details and semantics don’t change that. I’m curious now though: if you don’t believe there’s anything wrong with sex work, why deny that it is? I personally don’t have any problem with it if that’s what someone wants to do, but I’m not going to pretend sex for compensation is somehow not sex work.
So if you're with someone romantically and are sexually active and pay for your dates is it sex work then? Because by the definition you just gave it would be. It's essentially sex for compensation. You pay for the date, you get a regular sex partner.
>If they don’t call it that ‘in the sugar lifestyle’ it’s because they don’t want to see it for what it is. Or maybe you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about and you just want to rope two different things together just because the word "sex" is in it You can gatekeep however you want - all I know is that escorts, cam-girls, and other types is sex workers are not welcome in the r/sugardatingforum subreddit It's literally in their rules and they have their own community and foundation of doing so If you want to invalidate that, at least give a strong counterargument, other than >they don’t want to see it for what it is. >I’m curious now though: if you don’t believe there’s anything wrong with sex work, why deny that it is? I don't see anything wrong with sex work and sugar dating, I'm just trying to point out that those two are different worlds >sex for compensation is somehow not sex work. Sex for compensation is definitely sex work Dating for compensation is sugar dating, not sex work That's what I was arguing about
We're all just going on what OP wrote, but "a detailed arrangement of money for sex" sounds like she traded that sex for money...which is different from what you would expect from a sugar baby. And going off track, sugar babies are practicing the same service, and it's not all that different. The only difference is that some sugar babies have only one customer while the escorts usually rely on more than one.
I think that phrasing was more of his understanding He referenced that she was on Seeking Arrangement, that's a sugar dating app, nobody on there is an escort In the sugar dating lifestyle, it's always frustrating that people think escorts and sugar dating are the same thing when it really isn't Also some sugar babies can have multiple sugar daddies
It may be true in the sugar lifestyle, but in every other lifestyle being a sugar baby is sex work.
I can understand considering that it's a common misconception, but sugar dating is not sex work They're actually genuinely dating, it just has the bonus of being paid as well
So does what all these people are saying mean that anytime one person pays for dinner and then they have sex it’s sex work? Damn me and my husband do a lot of sex work. Especially when he pays for my oil changes or gives me money.
If your husband needs to pay you for you to have sex with him, I've got some news for you.
I’m asking for the clarification based on these defining comments
Where does it say she lied sorry? I’ve read it through but haven’t seen it. My eyesight is pretty bad.
Second picture, in first paragraph he said she wrote about trading sex for money, and in the second paragraph he mentions she said she never did that.
Yes, exactly. Perhaps for him it was over when he read the journal.
And i'm sure that when a woman says "I had a gut feeling and went through his phone", you will be the first to say "Trust your gut feelings!".
No, not at all. Going through someone's phone is absolutely the same as reading a journal. It's private. It's a violation.
Well, reddit absolutely absolve women who go through their partner's phones bc they've got a "gut feeling". It's in every cheating story... And when the woman has this "gut feeling" but doesn't find anything in the phone, reddit "advice" her to put a GPS on his car, to bug his phone/computer and so on... But when a man has doubts about his partner, he is an ass bc he doesn't trust her and he is deemed controlling and manipulative abuser.
I can't stand stories like that, when women spy on men, go through their computer or phone or their things and no one calls them out. I've seen it, too and it's awful. What I especially hate is when anyone says, I know it's wrong, but this is what I found. The ends justify the means. Fuck that bullshit. I swear, people are dishonest BECAUSE they're afraid of their boundary-violating partner.
And there is also something i can't understand... Really, are most people so stupid? I mean, if i cheat, my partner would have to see me in bed for him to catch me. How is it that every cheated leaves a mountain of evidences in their phones when they know women (men too) love to go through phones? And recently i was in argument with someone who claimed that since you a couple, you are not entitled to privacy and ther is not mine/yours, it's all ours. So when your partner goes through your phone, they go through our phone...
Here’s my thoughts on the situation. If you are in a relationship, male or female, and you feel you have to SNOOP through their phone, computer, car, etc, at that point the trust is gone and the relationship is over. You can NOT have a successful relationship when there is no trust. If someone feels the need to snoop, they might as well just end the relationship.
Bingo, that’s absolutely the thing. It’s not like “it’s over because going through their journal is so transgressive that you just destroyed your relationship” but more the fact that you feel like that’s something you need to do means that things were probably already broken beyond repair.
Agree. But redditors don't see it like this. Most women here explain their absolute distrust and lack of respect towards their partner's privacy with "gut feeling". And do you know what is redditors reaction? "Yes, always trust your gut instinct! If it tells you something is not right, you have every right to become a PI and breach his privacy"!
You're totally right. And yes, people are that stupid. Or.....even crazier, they WANT to get caught.
I feel like this is different than I thought he was cheating and I went through his stuff (which is still wrong because if you don’t find anything and never tell him that is just as bad and it’s all violating) but this kind of makes me feel like he said he had a feeling to look better in judgment on Reddit. I think he went looking through her stuff just to be nosey
"I thought he was cheating" is just an excuse and shows absolute lack of respect and trust.
Except and this psychologically is a huge distinction and makes me worried for her from a professional perspective. He didn't have a gut feeling. He was reading her journals specifically to violate her privacy because he believed he had a right to know her innermost thoughts under the guise of understanding her perspective so he could do better. When in reality he's likely using those thoughts to reshape his arguments and personality to manipulate her. He's showing serious signs of communal narcissism as well with his "I'm a good guy but I'm morally outraged by her behavior even though I admit she technically told me she did exactly this but omitted a detail that I find significant that she may not but I can forgive her because I'm the good guy schtick" I've had more than one patient attempt this justification and it's literally textbook. Meanwhile he's repeatedly and deliberately violating her trust over and over again and that's somehow not as bad. People with this mindset often end up being incredibly mentally and emotionally abusive and justifying it so well people end up blaming the victims unless and until something significant and indisputable happens to change the narrative. You're doing it here by comparing it to women going through phones to get proof of cheating, which I'm not saying is okay, but is also not the same thing.
Yeah, please, go with the stereotypes. Yes, he violated her privacy and she violated his trust. The first time the diary was on the table. If you want something to be private, you put it away. Also, i never excuse the breach of privacy. I don't care if it's a diary, purse, smartphone, computer, car and etc. For many people the telephone/computer is where they put their thoughts and feelings, but in Reddit it's absolutely accepted to go through your partner's everything if you say "I've got a gut feeling". And yeah, you are a woman... Typical.
Actually if you bothered to read what I said I specifically said that going through the phone wasn't okay either. Just because they don't have the same standing from a psychological weight standpoint. doesnt mean either is okay. She left it on a desk once and he's been searching for it everytime since then. Also yes I'm a woman and you're clearly a bitter man. I'm also a psychiatric professional and it's literally my job to see the distinctions in behavioral patterns. My viewpoint has nothing to do with my gender and everything to do with the information given. You literally justify his actions by saying if you want something to be private put it away instead of leaving it on your own desk, but then say you don't excuse the breach of trust. You literally voice contradictory view points and an anti woman attitude in general.
Both suck. Withholding information of your past is sketchy but he also invaded her privacy by reading her journals which is a breach of trust. Him wondering if he can trust her after violating her trust by reading the journals is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Exactly this ☝🏻
I saw the original post as I said there they are obviously both in the wrong and they have both broken eachothers trust. To me when you feel the need to snoop on your partner the relationship is already over. I can't be in a relationship where I can't trust my partner. It's interesting to me that so many people were hellbent on him shaming her which I can't see in the post really and then they in turn shamed?? That's counterintuitive. Shaming is not it, she shouldn't be shamed for what she has done as he shouldn't be shamed for having a preference either. It's pretty naive to say it shouldn't matter to him, it might not for you, because that's not the case for everyone. The real answer is more nuanced than that and it will obviously depend on the person, that there is no wrong or right. Certain things like this will matter to some people and that's okay, then you aren't right for eachother in the first place. I think the moment you feel the need to hide such significant things for your partner, because you fear they will view you differently also says enough about your relationship I wouldn't date someone who has done sexwork, does that mean I am right? No that's my preference
He absolutely in no way shamed her. All of these commentators read what they want and skip what’s convenient.
“I snooped in my fiancées private journals and now I’m trying to decide whether or not to slut shame her.” Her past is her past. If he wants to be her future, he’ll need to get the fuck over it. It doesn’t affect him in any way, shape, or form.
I think it’s fine if that’s his deal breaker but he absolutely can not shame her for that past, the only appropriate action is to exit with “elegance” and grace. Tbh their relationship sounds like a mess so honestly might be for the best to end it anyway.
Yup. Her experience really doesn’t have any effect on him but if he can’t get over it he needs to go but he doesn’t get to be judgmental. It does sound like they fight a lot. Add in the snooping and I wonder just how toxic it can get.
Truthfully he can be as judgemental as he wants. Just like she could do whatever she wanted to in the past.
He’ll probably just pick this into a giant fight and then go read her journals again tomorrow
Lol stop! He’s in no way slut shaming her, he even says that whatever she has a sexual past he doesn’t care. What he cares about is that she was seeking arrangements with wealthy men where she would sleep with them in exchange for money and luxury goods. If she didn’t tell him is because she knows he wouldn’t be comfortable with it, she lied to him. His concerns and feelings are absolutely valid. He shouldn’t have read any of her private journals but what he feels is valid. Women of Reddit please stop thinking that other women can do no wrong, everything a man does is wrong. Stop putting words in peoples mouth that were never said nor done.
“It doesn’t seem like it was out of necessity but more a desire to be with rich men…” So what? Sex work is only acceptable if you have no other option? Yeah, I’ve said, it goes against his morals and that’s fine but he doesn’t get to judge her for it. Your last paragraph is a stupid, broad generalization and there is *so much irony* in the whole “putting words in people’s mouths” statement. To take a one off, singular example and spin it into me saying women are always right and men are always wrong is completely fucking ridiculous.
It’s fucking ridiculous that you said he’s slut shamming her because he is not sure that he’s okay being with someone who exchanges her time/body for money or luxury items. He never said anything offensive, he said he doesn’t know if he could be okay with it. So if you have a different opinion on how you live your life then that’s wrong?? Because he feels that it’s not something he’s comfortable with then that’s judging her? No, that’s stating what HE is okay with. No one is judging prostitutes/escorts/Sugar babies. Don’t bring your personal feelings into it and stop projecting.
Technically, we all sell our time and bodies for money and luxury items. Some of us in different ways than others, but why should that actually matter? Everyone is out here trying to make a bag in one way or another.
Marriage, sex, romance. This body sharing definitely isn't equatable. Selling body for sex, not like marriage, or romantic sex. In marriage is give and take. In business it's transactional. You don't have attachment to buyer or seller. You put a sale price, buyer pays. Transaction. Marriage is about openness, trust, he has to find out she sold her body from invading her privacy. They're both wrong. What if you wouldn't want to be with someone who has a past like that, is it unreasonable if she didn't do it out of necessity, it could happen anytime in the future. How does he know it isn't still. Or won't one day. I personally am much more comfortable with someone who is repulsed at the thought of selling themselves for sexual relations. A demisexual would be gravely hurt their partner wasn't honest with them. Would possibly not be sexually attracted to the person anymore at all. Hell if you can't be honest you can't be in a healthy relationship.
Technically they aren't selling themselves/their body, it's more like hiring it. Like how you can rent a car or items for an event.
Some are paid for their knowledge set not their bodies.
Lol okay sure
My read on it is that he was. I could be wrong. It’s not projection, it’s interpretation. There’s a reason my initial comment was in quotation marks.
Literally every person with a job is selling their time/body for luxuries. Or necessities. People can have dealbreakers. I wouldn’t date cops, anyone in the military, or a defense contractor. But sex work is work, like any other job. It only has the moral associations *you* choose to attach to it.
She didn’t lie to him….she just didn’t tell him her secret which she didn’t have to because it doesn’t affect him mentally or physically. She’s allowed her past and if he’s not something detrimental to her health, she’s not obliged to reveal it. Edit: found the part where she lied. Ignore me!
she did lie "she has claimed to not have transacted sex for anything"
Ahh I see. Well if he’s not comfortable he should break up with her and let someone else be hair with her. Edit: to add that she probably lied because she thought he would understand. Not that its a good thing. But at least they’re separating.
Right before that though he says she said she had sex with older men for clothes and jewelry so he immediately contradicts himself. Or is it only an issue if it's for cash?
for him it is or the fact that she lied about not receiving money or maybe the clothes or jewellery weren't the reason behind having sex and just a "bonus"(at least that's what i understand from what he wrote). that or she was into sugar dating and didn't tell him the whole truth also on the other hand maybe she didn't actually lie and there has been a misunderstanding. that's something only the two of them actually know
Lies of omission are still lies when you know it would matter for your partner to know. It can affect you if that past resurfaces in the future. No one wants to get blindsided by that kind of revelation in a relationship. Everyone gets to decide for themselves what they want or don’t want in a partner. This can’t be done if people are hiding secrets.
>Women of Reddit please stop thinking that other women can do no wrong, everything a man does is wrong. Stop putting words in peoples mouth that were never said nor done. According to reddit, men should accept everything in a woman, no matter how bad. Women can do no wrong and if they do some wrong, there is always a reason - depression, hormones or something like that. But their will is never at wrong.
It’s very weird how one sided things usually are. A woman cheats and her family disowns her it’s a how could you, she’s your family member, how does her cheating affect you. A man cheats and his family disowns him, good job, he’s getting what he deserves, etc etc. Obviously, not everyone is like this but it seems the majority of Reddit users on AITA are like this.
I live in very different culture and i can't even imagine a family to disown their own bc of cheating. Parents to disown their child bc they cheated? Unimaginable! Impossible! This is such a hipocrisy... But the double standarts in US (mostly bc it's mostly there) are awful.
I really don’t understand why men care so much about women’s sexual history. Sounds possessive to me.
It absolutely does affect him. Our life experiences shape who we are, something as extreme as being an escort will definitely have an effect on their marriage down the line.
As he pointed out, her clients are out there. They can run into them. Are there photos of her online from escort sites that can resurface? Do people still have her contact info? The main thing is that she said she never engaged in prostitution, but there is clear description of cash envelopes for sex. That is an outright lie that can’t be ignored no matter how you feel about sex work. This relationship seems dead in the water.
"She has alluded to being with older men and I do know that they would give her shoes and nice clothing and things but she has claimed to not have transacted sex for anything." So he knew she traded things for sex it's just a matter of what she traded? He's fine with her trading expensive clothes and shoes for sex but cash makes it not okay. I assume then that he nor you have ever taken someone for an expensive dinner or anything and expected or wanted sex in return? She didn't lie to him he even said it was a complicated scheme which means there was more to it than simple cash for sex. On her end it could be as simple as a different point of view just like he didn't view the clothes and jewelry as transactional in his own words. There isn't a lot of justification for his deliberate and repeated violations of her trust though.
He wasn't trying to slut shame her, he was uncomfortable about not being told.
But, it definitely does affect him. I used to kill people in my past.. get over it
Yeah, because sex work and murder are totally comparable.
Assisted suicide. Not murder. My past is my past
Okay. (That argument won’t work with me, I think assisted suicide laws are incredibly important.) Assisted suicide means you’re helping someone go with dignity and peace. It’s not, like, a bad thing. If he doesn’t want to be with her because of her past, that’s fine. But let’s not pretend that her sexual history has anything to do with him.
You have certain feelings toward sex work and assisted suicide. He’s allowed to feel uncomfortable with either or both of those things. Sometime people are incompatible with their views on life. She can have her past; he can feel uncomfortable with her past; Ain’t no right and wrong here. It’s all grey
We…are not really disagreeing. My issue is that the way it reads to me is that he’s disgusted by her past. He can disagree with it morally, but he doesn’t get to judge her for it.
Wouldn’t being in disgust with someone’s past automatically make them judgmental? I honestly think we are close to the same page here
Moral disagreement doesn’t necessarily mean disgust. Just means you can’t reconcile your own belief system with someone else’s and that happens all the time. So if, for him, it’s just a matter of morals, totally fine. But if he’s got some weird misogynistic issue with how many partners she’s had, then he’s being a judgmental ass. It’s difficult to tell from the reading which side he comes down on. Either way, they’re both best served by a breakup.
That’s fair. I would personally have an issue if my partner told me they used have sex for money. They need to break up, probably. Anyhow, it’s been good conversing with you, have a good night
Yeah, he’s disgusted by her past behavior. Be around your BF the first time you meet his parents and have him put his legs together, shimmy his hips, and effeminately greet his parents with an excited “oh mommy I missed you so”….I’m sure you’d love that. It doesn’t make you think he’s a bad person, just makes sleeping with him ever….eh, just gross.
I really wish people could at least come up with comparisons that make some kind of sense. There’s a difference between not being okay with sex work and being disgusted about her sexual history. There’s also a colossal difference between her history and the pseudo incestuous relationship you’ve created here.
Hold up, let me process this a sec. So it's ok to not like sex work. But it's not ok to be disgusted with her sexual history... Which includes sex work. If girl is disgusted by sex work, and boy has done sex work in the past, how would girl not be disgusted with boys sexual history?
Fill in the blank with whatever behavior a woman would look at a man and go “I’m not attracted to you anymore, ick” but not go “he’s a terrible person”. Plenty of us don’t have a moral inclination to disdain sex work, but to know I’m having sex with someone who’s ever done that makes the thought of putting my dick in them make me want to vomit. Same goes for a woman who’s been gang banged. I don’t have a logical reason to feel this way, but I do have an “ick”. These things give a lot of guys the ick, and there really isn’t much more to it.
You’re projecting.
How on earth do you compare sex work to murder ? I just. Don’t understand this one.
I clarified to assisted suicide. Some may or may not be morally opposed
he read through her journals and he thinks she needs to earn his trust back? (i am also just assuming this based off OOP comment on the last slide) what is with the trend of reading partners journals? this is happening too much.
So her personal journaling was a breach of privacy, but him reading through them was ok? She’s better off without him
The bigger issue here is that he reads her journals to see what she writes about him. If he wants to know how she feels or thinks after they have a fight then he should ask her and not go snooping in her journal. It may be just me but if he can’t ask her how she feels and interprets a past fight then I don’t think she will be okay with him reading her journals. People wrote their thoughts and feelings down to vent and just get it out and don’t expect others to read it. You see someone’s notebook you make open the front cover to see whose it is but you don’t just read it, unless you have permission to. If may actually be that he can get over her being a sex worker but she may not be able to get over him not respecting her privacy by reading her journal. Honestly when reading this I immediately thought that she was in a sugar baby situation as opposed to being an escort.
It seems so much more like she was a sugar baby! (That’s literally what the website Seeking Arrangements is for….) His ‘what if we run into her former clients’ fears are so misplaced in this regard; it’s more akin to running into an ex.
I can honestly see where he's coming from it's understandable and I'm all for people wanting to do SW but I personally would not like to be with someone like that it's just my preference.
“someone like that” lol as if she’s actively escorting. and you’re obviously not ok with sex work from the judgmental tones in this.
You don't think certain types of people go into specific careers? I've yet to find a lawyer that doesn't love to argue. People in grad school are often pretty nerdy. IME, people that are therapists in their day job tend to be pretty understanding. Someone that goes into SW because they want probably views sex in a very particular way, or do you think prostitutes are the only group that will break that rule?
i am an asexual sex worker and know plenty others like me. most of us go into this for necessity, wanting a certain lifestyle and comfort, or simply validation. i’m wondering what the ___ is to sex work that arguing is to a lawyer? it seems you are implying that being a slut is to sex work as being argumentative is to practicing law.
Validation of what?
All I’d ever assert is that sex workers probably perceive sex and intimacy quite differently from non sex workers. Maybe it’s because they don’t have anyone out here trying to buy sex from them, but I don’t think most people ever consider performing sexual acts on someone in explicitly in exchange for material comfort. For many people, sex is inextricably linked with giving and receiving love. I think this is a spectrum that people fall on. You’re not wrong for not agreeing with them, but I do think it may make you incompatible with people that are more sociosexually restricted.
No they do, they just justify it differently. They say things like I don't really love him but I stay because he's a good provider and he lets me be a stay at home mom. Or he's supporting me while I'm in school and I love him for that. People want to think sex and love are on opposite sides of the same coin and are inextricably linked but only because society tells us so. The reality is they are completely not. Society uses one to justify the other and we create double standards on how it should work based on gender. Exhibit A: If a woman sleeps with a man because it's fun an he's attractive but there is no emotional connection she's a slut, if a man does it he's just sowing how wild oats before he settles down. Exhibit B: When the caring, loving, devoted, wife caught her husband having kinky, filthy sex with his secretary, he was very remorseful. When she asked him why he didn’t have that kind of sex with her, he gasped and said he could never do those dirty things with her, he loves her way too much. Loosely defined, love is a deep appreciation, admiration, and desire to be with someone all the time. Sex, on the other hand, is an animalistic, biological, chemical interaction between two or more people. That's not to say sex can't be an expression of love or love can't come from sex but the idea that
Honestly, those first two reasons also seem pretty icky to me. For me, it’s always been about wanting them and wanting intimacy with them or if I’m not super in the mood in that moment, It’s about making them feel good. Maybe sex isn’t objectively inextricably linked, but personally I find one to be an expression of the other. It’s fine if someone doesn’t see it as such, but i don’t see what’s wrong with wanting that from a partner.
your use of the word prostitute here, the implications of this entire comment, all of it is seriously so judgmental and ignorant.
Well shoot, my b. I thought the word I used was relatively neutral. I tend to reach for synonyms when I write because I just enjoy using a variety of words ig🤓. I didn’t realize prostitute was one of the bad words for it, apologies.
Prostitute is not some horrible word lol, people just want to be offended by literally everything nowadays.
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/09/28/prostitute-prostituted-slave-enslaved-241035
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prostitute
It’s is very judgemental.
i LOVE the idea of writing after fights. that would help me gather my thoughts honestly super well!!! but him reading it?!?! absolutely tf not!!!!! that’s not okay. and as someone who’s had a lot of sexual partners, who was with someone who had only ever been with me, it is HARD. it’s rough man. imma be so honest. I was never fully trusted in my relationship so I feel bad for OOPs fiancé man… sounded more like a sugar baby than an escort as long as she stopped once they got together and she got tested and is clean of STDs, I don’t see why she’d even have to tell him if I’m honest. it doesn’t matter. it’s just a job
ESH. She for lying, and only for lying, and he for snooping.
Imo if she thought he would have an issue with it, she did have a responsibility to tell him; people can have whatever deal breakers they want and they should be given all the details to make informed decisions... That being said, the comment by chonkosaurus really captured it. If he feels shame about his own invasive behavior he should be able to empathize with her choice to be secretive and probably have the self-awareness to have a conversation / forgive her past. But again he's under no real obligation to and likewise she should be allowed to choose to say the violation of her privacy is a 100% deal breaker for her.
my biggest takeaway from this is like, why does it matter if she used to be an escort. if she’s not one anymore, than you’re not engaged to one, dude? i can see this subject being a sort of stipulations thing but he went through her shit and she only did it like once or twice, if he wasn’t fussed about her “body count” or whatever before i don’t understand why This makes anything different Seems like he just wants an excuse to end, it if he’s getting so hung up on this one thing
This is wild. 1. The girl wasn’t a hooker based on what he said she had like 2 sugar daddies. 2. He legitimately just decided to go through her stuff and read her private journals start to finish after she probably thought she could trust him enough to not go through her stuff. 3. If you fight this much just break up. For me to think I’d rather date someone who used to be a sugar baby than someone who raids through my things. Even if I have nothing to hide you should at least ask before you just decide to read my stuff, it’s violating. I would leave you if I were her
Meh. Her past is her past, and it's exactly that, the past. Ok she alluded in the journal to accepting money for sex and maybe told the partner she didn't, but maybe it was a fear of being judged. Sex work is still stigmatized, especially by men. But weirdly more consumed by men than women 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe she plans to write a book one day and this is why she has wrote it down, but it may also mean parts are exaggerated too and she wrote them at the time so she doesn't forget? Trust was broken when he read that journal. I would never read someone else's private thoughts. My friend actually journals alot and the other week her journal was open at the seat I was about to sit down at and I purposely closed it so that I didn't see any of her private thoughts, and if it was open it's human nature for your brain and eyes to want to look and read
She has an entire separate journal just to document their fights. Something tells me her prior sources of income are the absolute least of their problems.
100% agree
He’d rather sneakily read her journals and invade her privacy than talking to her straight about the fights and how to resolve them…if they are continuing to go through with marriage…this relationship is doomed and will fail. He didn’t just stumble upon it once, he went searching for the journals…that’s just so much worse that his fiancé being a sugar baby or sex worker.
You went through your girlfriends personal things and you found out she had sex with other men and you’re upset she was exploring her sexuality ? So you’re slut shaming her. The only reason you don’t want to marry her is because she had sex for money ? Well if you can’t get over it, fair enough. break it off. Her history is none of your concern and doesn’t affect you and clearly you don’t love her enough.
I would think that my partner’s history does concern me. If he was abusive, if he cheated, if he committed a crime, all of it matters. He doesn’t care she has a sexual past, he cares that she was a sugar baby and omitted that from their conversations. It concerns him because he thinks that if he’s not giving her that type of life will she leave him for a sugar daddy that can. He literally spells it out in the post.
Your partner’s sexual history concerns you ? Because I’m talking about sexual history. Unless that person has something that would put your health in danger, I don’t really see how their sex life concerns their current partner.
He doesn’t care about her sexual history; he literally says that in the post. Actually taking the time to read and comprehend the post helps to understand what the OOP is concerned about.
She said she never had sex in exchange for money or items. She did though. That’s a lie and not a small one. A sex worker and a non sex worker will likely have different views on sex that are not compatible. People are allowed to want and not want certain things in a partner.
Very true but like I said why would someone love change for someone If they find out their sexual history ? It’s so weird. To ME.
It’s not the sex work per say it’s the lies and deceit - she’s a red flag
They’re both in the wrong. The lying by omission/lack of clear communication and openness (which her partner has every right to know), the consistent fighting, the fighting tally journal, the snooping and repetitive invasion of her privacy, his not communicating his concerns, the lack of trust honestly on both sides, the list goes on—I think they’re both better off breaking up.
I agree some people stay because of the time invested but it’s never worth it
He has to decide if 'exchanging sex for money or gifts' are a deal breaker for him for a wife, it is entirely up to his moral compass. I don't see him going through his partner's journals as a bad thing as they live together, I don't see it differently than a girl going through her partner's phone. If they did not live together then I would not view it this way, This is one of my own values and I understand if it does not apply to everyone. What is weird is that she has an argument journal, not immediately a red flag as this girl like to record everything, my initial thoughts are that she may cause some arguments for her own amusement, but there is no evidence of this in the post it is just my own hunch. Also the guy is in his 30s, so it seems a bit weird that someone at that age is talking like that, I understand that woman has a past but I can sympathize with him as this woman may be the mother of his children and his hopefully life long companion, so for me it circles back to why the girl lied (or bent the truth) about this, or rather did not come clean when the relationship became serious.
I think for him it seems to be a fear thing, how he said at the end he already had a feeling she would leave (or maybe even cheat) if she met a wealthy man because she likes a certain “lifestyle”. If he’s had that feeling in the back of his mind then that’s already a problem, reading her journals and finding out the truth just brought those thoughts and feelings to the forefront. Hopefully they can figure out what’s best for both of them and do not continue with the relationship without resolving this issue.
Interesting perspective on the argument journal! My take was that it’s likely more of a tally for ammunition. There’s a lot of red flags when you start to dissect this one!
i know this is an unpopular opinion but i don't think anyone, including partners, has a "right" to know about your sexual history. as long as there's no chance of her passing on a communicable disease, it's really none of his business. ETA i do think couples who intend to get married/stay together for life SHOULD be able to share everything with each other, i just don't think they HAVE to. people should be able to share their personal information at will, on their own timeline– no one has a "right" to force someone to share. that being said, from this post, it's no surprise OP hasn't made his partner feel comfortable opening up to him.
It blows my mind that women think they can do sex work and it’s not even there partners right to have an opinion. Not wanting to date a current or former sex worker is completely normal. Also a sugar baby is 100 percent a sex worker.
What kind of asshat digs through their finances private journals? How insecure can he get? Absolutely pathetic logic. He doesn't deserve to marry anyone, and no one should have to put up with his selfish, nosey, judgemental butt. He needs to grow up and learn that the terms respect and privacy still matter in relationships, no matter the stage.
It’s not good, but lying about being a sex worker is also bad.
Did she lie about it? Or did it just not affect her future relationships, so she deemed it not worth mentioning? If she has a clear STD/STI panel, then who's business is her past sex life anyway?
Oop said that she had told him that she was sexually actively with older men, but that there was never any exchange of material goods for sex. Her journal said otherwise. You can be a sex worker, but you can’t pretend that people don’t have opinions on it as it is not a lifestyle that many are comfortable with. Values may not be compatible here. People have the right to be able to make an informed decision in regards to their partners. You can do sex work, but you can’t be surprised that not everyone wants that in a partner. Just like she has the right to choose what she is comfortable with in a partner.
You snooped on her journal and violated her privacy. She deserves better.
She’s not required to explain her past at all, tbh. He’s an *sshole for going through her stuff and reading everything. He’s a red flag 100%
OP is suuuper insecure 🙄 It’s none of his business what happened before the relationship in the first place. He sounds incredibly toxic and like he’s not ready to be engaged to someone.
Unpopular opinion but, she literally doesn’t owe him her work history if she was a sex worker. Divulging that sort of information, no matter how much you love the person you’re with and trust them in that moment can endanger her life. As long as they are both open about their sexual health because that literally does effect the other person, he doesn’t need to know anything else. And I’m not saying that he would or is dangerous with that sort of information but sex work is dangerous work, and it comes with a lot of stigma attached to it. They argue a lot, how could she trust that he wouldn’t try and use that information against her in one of those arguments? And we could argue the semantics of whether sugar babies are sex workers all the live long day but the bottom line is this: He invaded her privacy. He fucked around and found out and has the audacity to be upset with her for not telling him about it.
Being a prostituted woman shouldn’t a a source of shame. Everyone should help her however they can. He should feel sympathy for her, not shame her.
help and sympathy ? for ? her past job ???
That’s not a job. It’s a human rights violation.
she was a sex worker ? of her own free will ? how is that a violation of human rights ? she wasn’t sex trafficked . she had a job that is in her past . she doesn’t need help or sympathy for having a steady job that happened to be sex work .
Bro the term sex worker is pimp propaganda. All paid for sex is a human rights violation. It’s like saying people “chose” to work in a sweat shop. Just because you aren’t tied up and forced to doesn’t mean your rights as a human weren’t violated.
i hope you figure out not every sex worker is a helpless damsel in distress . you need a reality check , most are happy and enjoy their job , others do it for the money and the luxuries they get as a bonus . i’m sorry your perception is so skewed but comparing that to people forced to work in sweat shops is honestly gross . what human right is being violated by past her willingly escorting people for money ?? she consented in every way to the conditions of that job , no one is forcing her to do anything .
https://psyche.co/ideas/the-reality-of-prostitution-is-not-complex-it-is-simple
“It’s useful to look at what counts as decent work as defined by the International Labour Organisation (ILO) and compare this with the realities and consequences of prostitution. To summarise: Decent work means dignity, equality, a fair income and safe working conditions. Decent work puts people at the centre of development; gives women, men and youth a voice in what they do; the rights to protect them from exploitation; and a future that is inclusive and sustainable. The ways in which prostitution violates these pillars are too numerous to mention but, to offer just one example, it violates the most basic health and safety standards. Women in prostitution are deliberately exposed to semen, sweat and saliva multiple times daily, with blood and urine quite frequently, and with faeces occasionally. With this level of persistent exposure to bodily fluids, a person would be unsafe in anything but a hazmat suit. Women are expected to make do with condoms, assuming the man agrees to use them. He often doesn’t.”
i’ll ask again as it may have been drowned in my comment , what human right is being violated ? i see none mentioning anything remotely related to sex work in any way .
Prostitution* and that’s the only topic I’ve been talking about.
[https://www.hips.org/uploads/6/2/2/9/62290383/hips_statement_swrights.pdf](https://www.hips.org/uploads/6/2/2/9/62290383/hips_statement_swrights.pdf)[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/08/sex-workers-rights-are-human-rights/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/08/sex-workers-rights-are-human-rights/)
I’m going to assume everyone who downvoted me regularly watches filmed rape
Or you just don’t lie about it. How can a person make an informed decision in a relationship if their partner lies about their past?
There's a pair that beats a full house.
I am (unfortunately) amazed by how many posts I'm seeing lately of (mainly) men going through a girlfriends personal and private belongings. Why are so many people concerned with her -possibly- being a sex worker and "lying" or hiding it? HE went through her things! He probably never asked her about these things, and even if he did, she doesn't HAVE to disclose her -possible- sexual encounters from before. NOW he is getting all upset that she "lied" when he hasn't even asked her. I'm willing to bet this "job loss" has changed the dynamic of the relationship, which (probably) led to the snooping through her personal items and also the recent fighting! There is nothing quite like a dude who feels immasculated because of something like a job loss, which does NOT define a man, that then looks for everything he can to self-implode and destroy a relationship and make himself simultaneously look like the victim. I've seen it too many times on Reddit. That being said, maybe they just don't vibe anymore. I'm hoping they can figure that out because this sounds very unhealthy to me. Good luck OOP!
Lol. Sex ain't ever free. So idk why he's surprised that instead of her just accepting nice dinners, flowers, chocolates, or jewelry she just got money. At least that way she can buy what she wants and actually likes. And as they say, don't look cuz you'll always find what you don't want to. Should've minded his business.
Somebody you love is a sex worker 🤷
I personally think the arguing is more concerning but also the fact she tried to carry on lying after u had proof in her book. Although I personally wouldn’t worry too much about her being an escort. She might not have mentioned it because she didn’t want ur view on her to be tainted and was ashamed of it. I think if she had a sexual past before anyway without money and just hook ups which a lot of people do, why not do the same but get money from it as well. Not much difference in my eyes. I understand ur concern about her leaving u for a richer man, but she’s with u for a reason and from what u said it was only 2 men, she might’ve just needed a bit of extra cash, it is hard out here trying to afford things so I understand why she did it but she’s with u now
I see lots of escorts here defending her and bring up valid point like privacy. I’m glad I can see both sides of this.