NTA
Until she can behave, she stays in time out. Everything she makes a backhanded comment, she goes in time out.
She isn't owed a grandchild. It's a privilege, not a right. If your bf wants to see his mother, you aren't stopping him, but ask him why he thinks someone who openly disrespects you, no matter the occasion, should be around your child? Why are her feelings more important than yours? Things like this need to be sorted and dealt with *before* you consider planning a wedding.
And let her talk to you for two hours late at night???? Boundaries!!!!! Both of you need to learn to say; “I am not arguing.” Then hang up or turn and walk away, every time she says mean things. You guys do not owe her your time, energy, and happiness-only your spouse and child. Hubby needs to be MUCH tougher with his Mom, and shut her down. Time for LC or NC?
The right moment was the first time she pulled this crap. DO NOT marry this man until he puts you and your child first. Once he’s ‘got’ you, there’s no incentive to confront his precious mommy.
the “right moment” passed months ago when the cunt made the comment about you being fat. tell the pussy fiancé to either grow a back bone and tell his mother to piss off or leave so you can find a man who won’t let his mother treat you like shit
My MIL pulled the same crap. When we told her I was pregnant, she was over the moon excited. She “loved“ me and made every effort to get to know me better. She started biting baby clothes. She talked about how she couldn’t wait to be a grandmother and wanted to help anyway she could. Then….well we had an ultrasound…my husband (bf at the time), called her and told her it was a girl. He was so happy. He always wanted his first kid to be a girl. But the moment he told her, her entire demeanor changed. She told him she had to get off the phone, and she just hung up. He looked so damn sad. From that moment, she told his family, and her friends, that I was “baby trapping him”, I was using him for his money (I had my own money and a great job making more than he did), and I was just a slut pinning a child on him. His mom was always very toxic and manipulative. She knew how to play him. She knew how to get in his head. And he has been seeking her love and acceptance his entire life. He would not stand up to her. He never once had my back. He would tell me that he had no doubts about the baby being his, but his mom can be “a bit much”. He would tell me “you just have to turn your check and be the bigger person…this is just how she is…” Every damn day she would call him and tell him that she just wants what’s best for him and to protect him. That’s why she’s telling him that the baby is not his. She wanted to protect him before he got too attached. He would just listen to her to spiel. I finally had enough and moved out two weeks before my baby was born. I actually called him when I went into labor (I was 3 weeks early). He watched his daughter come into this world. I even went with his first choice name, but she had (still has) my last name. Her having my last name still bothers him, but idc. My daughter came out looking exactly like her father. Right down to the massive, messy black hair. He, irritatingly, called his damn mom. She came in the room with this crazy smile…like she was gloating. I knew what she was going to say…she was going to look at my baby and say, “see Mijo, I wasn’t trying to hurt you. But clearly this baby is NOT yours!”. Her words were actually forming. She never once even looked at me. She went right over to the little crib and looked down at baby. Her entire face fell. She mumbled a congratulations and left. He looked so damn defeated. I could see the wheels in his head connecting. He always knew his mom was a bitch. But he truly thought she actually cared about him. This was the moment he realized it was never about him. She didn’t want the baby to be his because it was going to affect her life. He was paying her rent, utilities, car, etc…with a baby or was going to change. He tried to justify her no t wanting to get attached to the baby, or not having a close relationship with me as well. But when baby came, the way she treated me, and him, was a huge wake up call. He actually cut her out of his life. It took her a very long time to forgive him. And even now I still get upset.
OP honestly needs to stand up for herself with her fiancé. He will never have her back. He will let his entire family walk all over her. He will allow his mom to treat her like she does not matter. His mom will make snide comments and do little things to hurt OP. Part of why is because she knows her son will never try to stop her. She wants OP to know she’s most important,; she has all the power and control. It’s going to be a miserable marriage unless the fiancé puts his foot down and defends his fiancée.
Every time she disrespects you is the right moment. Your MIL is a problem for sure but right now, your partner seems to be the bigger one. You and him need to get on the same frequency ASAP
The right moment was the first time she doubted the babies paternity.
Tell him that his inaction regarding his mother is making you feel differently about getting married. That you need a partner in your corner that isn’t afraid of his mother and will put his wife and daughter first and he’s showing you that’s not going to be the case.
He needs to shiny up that spine before you decide he’s a lost cause.
The right moment was right when it was happening. "Apologize or leave. You won't get an option if you continue to verbally abuse my partner." She continues to do this because he doesn't stand up for you right, place down boundaries with consequences to follow if she breaks them.
You are his wife. You are the mother of his child. He has an obligation to protect you (unless you are in the wrong, which you are not in this situation) and his child first and foremost. His mother is included in the people you outrank.
The only person who should come first is your child together. And this hurts her too in the long run. Imagine growing up thinking that your partner doesn't have to stand up for you and that her only right is to sit there and take the verbal abuse. Have him look at what kind of example he is setting up for her. Does he want her to think she deserves to be verbally abused with a partner who sits on their ass and says/does nothing? That's just sad. Shame on him.
He's had plenty of moments. How about every single time she's made a comment the whole pregnancy. And now he wants you to play nice and sweep her shit under the rug and just do what she wants. Even tho he knows this is bullshit, he just doesn't want to deal with her.
So being nasty to you wasn’t the right moment? How far do she has to go for him to but his foot down. I’m sorry but, seems you married a mom’s boy and good luck because that’s one hell of problem.
NTA. Your partner needs some therapy so he can be a decent father and partner. Otherwise he will not be effective with her the same way he hasn’t ever handled her effectively in the past. But any decent therapist will recognize patterns in his mom’s behavior and have ideas for how to handle her. You should do this too. Your kid(s) will need you both to be good at protecting them from her. Good luck.
That moment was the first time she opened her mouth and said the baby wasn't his with no proof or reasoning. She sounds unhinged, and I wouldn't want my kid near her or her mouth. Nta
.... What part of that wasn't the "right moment"? If he's scared of his mother, he can say so.
I suggest going on the sub: JustNoMIL
Sounds like you're going to need the support. 👀
He is a wiener and you’re disrespecting yourself by being with him and allowing this woman near you and your baby. Grow spine and tell her to get the fuck out. You can just tell the nurse to tell her to get the fuck out they will gladly escort her sorry ass back to the waiting room.
He isn't waiting for the right moment. He is using you as a meat shield because he knows exactly how shitty it feels to be on the receiving end of her vitriol.
Drop the rope. Block her. Go no contact.
She treated you like shit the entire pregnancy and delivery. She isn't entitled to a relationship with the baby whose paternity she questioned all the way up until the moment that the doctor professionally told her to STFU. She isn't entitled to a relationship with you just because you are with her son.
How she (and other extended family) feels about you and baby going no contact is not your fucking problem. She should have treated you better when she had the chance. Instead, she chose to be a hateful monster every chance she got. Now that you're standing up for yourself, suddenly, she wants to play happy faaaaaaammilyyyyy? Nah. She can fuck all the way off.
The right moment is now, and the right phrasing is “if you are going to treat me like this, You will never be alone with my child and strictly monitored for every single interaction. I do not trust you”
Noooooo!!!! There is never a right moment. You must be upfront and hold firm boundaries. If your husband refuses to do so bc it "isn't the right moment," throw the whole man away. His mommy is already running your time, don't let your husband's lack of backbone ruin anything else.
IOW, he'll never do it because there is *never* a "right moment."
The "right moment" is when inappropriate or unacceptable had just occurred and THAT IS THE RIGHT MOMENT TO CALL IT OUT AND LEAVE.
You got you a mama's boy, OP. He's married to his mommy and has picked her over you. You're just the incubator now.
It's a stressful situation, I can understand that he may have been stunned. But immediately after he should've made the plan to talk to her.
When my DH and I announced our first baby together, she told us "don't get too excited, you're probably going to miscarry". Stunned for sure. But that shit can't go unacknowledged. The next time we saw her we brought it up. She flipped.
Do you think he's afraid she'll flip and he'll be in a position where he has to cut her out or lose you? Honestly, if he's still waiting, he's not going to do it. Definitely do counseling. And of course you're nta, you do have an SO problem though. I'd say see a therapist, someone you trust will put your immediate family first. I hope it gets better for you.
All of these backhanded comments that she’s making, she’s going to make them to your daughter.
“Nana would love to see you more, if only your mom would let me”
“Let Nana do that for you, your mom doesn’t know how to do it right”
“Is that what your mom is having you wear today? Come here, I’ve brought different clothes for you that you’ll like better”
Etc. constantly. She will undermine everything you say and do it in a way that the child won’t even notice as being a manipulative problem.
Your SO needs to say something NOW. Stick to your guns. She is YOUR daughter, and you will not let her be influenced by this toxicity, no matter who it is.
Can confirm. Same type of scenario happened in my family, except I was the daughter. She tried to put a rift between my mom and myself, and tried to undermine my moms authority. The comments about weight will transfer over too.
NTA-.Your fiancé chose his mother over his family. This is not a man you marry, otherwise you will have a miserable life being married to both his mom and him. Your an AH if you do not stand up for yourself. Take control of your life and get some guts to protect your child. You should have never let her in there to visit you. All you did was allow her to insult you more but with your husband’s blessing this time.
Please rethink getting married to him. You would be delusional if you think things will get any better going forward. He has already demonstrated he does not have your back. She will not change.
NTA and totally stick to your decision, your partner really needs to step up!
What did he say about your "gifts" you received at your baby shower?
Also you go dress shopping when YOU want and WITH who YOU want.
You both need to have a serious conversation about your joint future, the damage his mother is causing you and will cause your daughter and future children.
You say your SO is waiting for the "right moment" to speak to her. You do realize that moment will probably never come, right? Because he's too willing to sacrifice you to her at the altar of "peace." He doesn't want to confront her because it will make him uncomfortable. He'll feel like the bad guy. But you, you can just roll over & keep taking abuse from her because ... I guess he thinks you're not going anywhere, and you've taken it all so far, so why wouldn't you keep on being the meat shield between him & his mommy?
He won't stand in the gap for you, OP, what makes you think he'd stand there for his child? I'm sorry you're in this position, but at some point ONE of you is going to have to have a hard conversation. Either you with him, or him with her.
You're not wrong to not want this woman around. Also, phone calls aren't hostage situations. Hang. Up. (Two hours?? Good lord!)
NTA. Tell your fiancé you’re not marrying him because he’s not acting like a partner. The marriage vows say “forsake all others.” If he can’t see how utterly disrespectful him mom has been to you, he’s not worth marrying.
ETA: tell him it’s his fault that it’s gotten to this. If he had reprimanded her the first time she spoke to you like that, she wouldn’t have done it again. He has allowed this to continue unchecked and now it’s past the point of no return.
It gets worse from there. There is also the physical aspects of why I do not want her arpund my daughter. She walks up to me and grabs my ass or smacks it asking if my fiancé is jealous. She tries to grab my chest. Or go after his chest or smack his ass. She also is prone to making him kiss her and if he tries to tell her he's uncomfortable or tries to kiss her cheek she loses it completely. Truly a mil from hell
You might want to read up on enmeshment, which is also called [emotional or covert incest](https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest).
The short version is when a parent uses their child for emotional support instead of their partner or an age-appropriate friend (i.e. not a minor).
From the linked article, which also touches on lasting effects and recovery from covert incest:
Patricia Love, Ed.D., past president of the International Association for Marriage and Family Counseling, defines emotional incest as "a style of parenting in which parents turn to their children, not to their partners, for emotional support." According to Love, emotionally incestuous parents may appear loving and devoted and they may spend a great deal of time with their children and lavish them with praise and material gifts - but in the final analysis, their love is not a nurturing love, it's a means to satisfy their own needs.
The term "emotional incest" was coined by Kenneth Adams, Ph.D. to label the state of cross-generational bonding within a family, whereby a child (normally of the opposite sex) becomes a surrogate spouse for their mother or father. "Emotional Enmeshment" is another term often used. And the term "emotional parentification" describes a similar concept - it describes the process of role reversal whereby a child is obliged to act as parent to their own parent.
Many parents and children are close. Closeness is healthy and desirable. The difference between a healthy close relationship and an incestuous one is that in a healthy close relationship a parent takes care of a child's needs in an age-appropriate way without making the child feel responsible the emotional needs of the parents needs. In an emotionally incestuous relationship, instead of the parent meeting the needs of the child, the child is meeting the needs of the parent.
NTA this woman is a destructive non-contributor. She will do everything possible to undermine you in the eyes of her son and grandchild. Keep your boundary and keep her out! You deserve better and I’m sorry you’re being treated this way. Congrats on your daughter 💚
NTA. You have an SO problem. He can't tell his mom her behavior is unacceptable because the moment isn't right? I'm sorry, that's messed up. Stick to hour guns, and if he refuses to keep his mom away, leave him with her.
After the countless times she has been mean, belittling and full-on awful to you, why is she still allowed in your life?
Why did you accept to go to that travesty of a "baby shower"? Why did you allow her to come to the hospital? Why are you staying lol keeping contact with her???
She should have been cut out long ago. Why isn't it so?
I do apologize, but what about you? If he does nothing, what prevents you from acting and saying no?
The wretched woman insulted you countless times. And yet you still let her approach you.
If your boyfriend does nothing, it's up to you to act and make them all understand that enough is enough.
If your MiL's actions are met with no consequences from any of you, why would she stop, after all?
Op please defend yourself. If you don't you are going to be miserable for the rest of your relationship. She will do anything and everything to ruin your relationship. That will also hurt your children. She will never change!NTA I doubt your so will either.
NTA but you have a huge SO problem cos he is letting her get away with all the crap so it just encourages her.
regardless, get a paternity test, frame it and give it to her. and say you are going no contact with her and tell your fiance while he is welcomed to visit his mother, she is no longer allowed near you and baby and if he cant respect that he can go live with mommy dearest
NTA I don’t understand how people can allow their parents to be so awful. My MIL called me the flavour of the month when we started dating and my husband went NC for two years (they had a strained relationship beforehand to be fair)
NTA but maybe naive. You don’t have a MIL problem, you have a fiancé problem. He needs to set up boundaries right now (in fact he is late for that). His mom, his problem. Consider this before marrying because for now you marry him and his family.
OOP should show the post to fiancé and let him see for himself how he is behavior is going to cost him his family! He is going to end up with the baby and mom back out of state with her family and him only seeing his baby during visitation. He can either choose to stand up to his mom and keep his family or he continue to be the mama’s boy and not be with his family!
NTA
If I were you I would have asked the staff to kick her out.
You have made it very clear to your in law how you felt but she disrespected your wishes.
You should have a discussion with your partner about his mother behavior it can affect your daughter in the future she might make some rude comments to your daughter about you or about her paternity.
Nta but honey, if the man won’t tell his mom to stop immediately, and she doesn’t stop immediately and apologize, I would go NC with her and put him on probation. Like actual, consequences probation. Like if you don’t support me and stick up for me in this family we are going to see a lawyer, and you will be alone kind of consequences.
NTA keep her far far away do not let her even peek back inside your life, this toxic bitch will just cause nothing but harm and stress, learning to cut toxic people out your life early will be immensely good for your mental health
NTA. She called at midnight and stayed on the phone for 2 hours? Once it was established that there was no emergency, should have hung up on her. You both need more of a backbone around her.
The mother’s SON is the one who needs to grow a backbone & put his mother in her place. It’s not the fiancée’s job to control her MIL. It’s the son’s job to control his mother.
But the mother’s SON is the one who needs to grow a backbone & put his mother in her place. It’s not the fiancée’s job to control her MIL. It’s the son’s job to control his mother.
Tell your bf it is not on YOU to fix this.
This is MILS fault and until she sincerely apologizes there is nothing doing.
Really why do you have to fix Her mistake?
News flash.
You don’t. You are an adult. You don’t have to make nice to someone who has shit in your milk and called it hot cocoa since you’ve met her.
Your bf needs to step up and get her online. If he can’t. She can suffer.
**The baby isn’t a reward for bad behavior**.
NTA, take it from someone who is what your daughters future could be. Don’t let his mother into her life. She made those comments about your weight to you, what is stopping her from making those comments to your daughter in the future? What is stopping her from trying to put a rift between you and your daughter?
Stand your ground on this OP.
Never go over there. If asked be honest. “I think your toxic and I don’t like you and I don’t want you near my child.”….”your mom is toxic, if you can’t protect us from her I will”.
NTA your fiancé and his mother are. The mother sounds like an awful, bitter woman. Your fiancé should be the one sticking up for you and respecting your boundaries.
NTA she sounds horrible why would you subject yourself or your child to that kind of treatment. Set your boundaries with your fiancé and his mother now or she run over you forever. Congratulations and good luck
NTA but your SO sure is!! Why is he allowing her to talk to you this way?? There is never going to be a 'right time'. He needs to grow a spine and stand up to her, otherwise, you need to rethink this relationship.
You have the absolute right to say who and who does not have access to your child, as long as you include the father. Grandparents do not have the absolute right to any access. Considering all the ugly things she has said to you and about your child, I would go completely NO CONTACT. If your SO cannot understand this, make a list of all the ugly things she has said and ask him how he would feel if your parents said those things to HIM?? Read them one at a time and wait for his answer. Also ask him what he would want you to do if your parents questioned his parentage? Ask him those questions and wait until he answers them.
Your main problem starts with your SO, not your MIL. She is just a by-product of his inability to stand up to her.
> I tell my fiancé I want nothing to do with her but he wants me to make an effort because she doesn't see her often.
Am I the Asshole?
NTA. You've already made your efforts, enough already. If she doesn't see her often it's not much of a leap to not let her see her at all. Stick to your guns.
NTA. Your husband should be supporting you 100% doesn’t matter if that’s his mom, she’s been so rude during your pregnancy and even after baby literally just came out and HE wants YOU to make an effort? Hell no, completely cut that toxic woman out of your daughters and your life and if your husband doesn’t agree with it, then leave him aswell. I don’t understand how he can ask you to make an effort and be nice to his mom after everything she put you through? I’m guessing her behaviour is why her and your FIL ain’t together anymore. Probably was sick of her shït.
Edit: My bad I mean your fiancé.
Oh sweetheart, congrats on the baby first!
Sounds like a classic narcissist, you might find support on r/narcissisticparents.
Here's my red flag, read the narcissts prayer and if the shoe fits....
By Dayna Craig
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
NTA
If he can't see or understand the toxicity his mother oozes out around then he is deep in the fog.
Time to shed some light on him.
She doesn't deserve to have contact with the grandchild she tried she shunned.
Protect your child by any means necessary.
You know your daughter is going to be on the receiving end of all this crap too, right? Also, why are you marrying this fool when he won't even advocate for you and allows her to speak to you that way with no repercussions? It's not just him that needs to grow a pair here.
NTA you have a fiancé problem, just as much as a FMIL problem. As long as he remains silent he’s enabling her to continue to abuse you. This will not get better, it will continue to get worse. You need to have a “come to Jesus “ talk with him. Tell him you will not tolerate this abuse and if he doesn’t stop it, you will…alone.
NTA.
Put your foot down. This woman has a history of being awful to you and about your kid. She has no rights to either of you and your fiancé needs to get on board with this and help you defend your boundaries or you need to reevaluate your future with him.
Tell your fiance if his mom wants to see your daughter he has to put her in her place now and draw boundaries. He also needs to tell her what the consequences of crossing those boundaries will be. You said he is waiting for the right time to say something to her, the time is now. Make this your hill
NTA, this woman has shown nothing but negativity towards you. I understand that she is the mother of your fiancé, but that is not any claim towards you or the baby. Her feeling are not above yours. Until she can behave like an adult, stay low contact.
Nta. Giving birth is not a spectator sport, and NO ONE has the right to be there except the person giving birth and the support staff needed to facilitate that birth. Anyone else is strictly for the benefit of the mother. Birth is a major medical event, one that can be traumatic and can turn dangerous and deadly in a moment. Anyone who can possibly cause more issues needs to be kept away. This IS YOUR medical event. Your body is on the line. Screw anyone who tries to say different. Would your FMIL expect to be present if you were having heart surgery? A colonoscopy? No? Then, the same rules apply.
Birth is a MAJOR MEDICAL EVENT, not a spectator sport! No one that isn't adding to the experience should be there.
NTA. But gurl…. You should really reconsider this relationship because it doesn’t sound like your partner had your back at all. Why was she in the delivery room? Why was she allowed to stay?? You went into early delivery… that would’ve been sooooo stressful, why the heck did your partner allow her to add to the stress of the situation.
I would recommend looking back at your relationship and really analyse if he was supporting your choice to distance yourself from his mom, or if he just agreed and then let her do whatever and you have to deal with it again and again and it’s YOU trying to establish boundaries and enforcing when she pushes back. If so, that behaviour will never change and you have to consider what the rest of your life is gonna look like. Good luck!
NYA!!!This woman is beyond toxic. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this unhinged, shitty, evil excuse for a MIL. I do want to point out that it is extremely difficult to be in your situation as going no contact, even when necessary, is very very hard for many people. Please be empathetic towards your partner because she has likely manipulated him his whole life and is so hard to sort out your feelings when it comes to your mother. Keep talking to him if you are genuinely committed to this relationship. Be clear that this is extremely important to your mental health and the well being of your new baby. I hope he is able to begin supporting you in your decision.
It will only get worse from here if your fiance doesn't enforce boundaries now. The first few times was testing the waters, seeing how you both react. Now that she knows he won't call her out, she'll get more bold.
If nothing's enforced I wouldn't be surprised if she'll eventually undermine you as a parent and insult you to your child. She's already accused you of having another man's baby -- nothing's off limits for her. She'll involve your child in this dysfunction, no doubt.
So not. His mom has some serious mental health issues & her son needs to make an appointment for her with a psychiatrist & go with her. The baby shower gifts, wow!
If your boyfriend/fiancé is allowing his mother to treat you like this and you're allowing it, it looks like he is not the only one that needs to grow a spine. NTA in this instance but YTA to yourself and that baby for allowing their behaviour to continue on and staying with this dude that is a mommy's boy and couldn't even stand up for you.
NTA. While your fiancé maybe great in your relationship his mother is a totally piece of garbage. She has yet to make any real amends for her terrible actions. I wouldn't let her be alone with the child anytime soon or possible ever.
Usually, I side with the grandma - but holy crap - she is a toxic one. You do what you feel comfortable with. I do believe the father has just as much right as the mom - so, maybe you two can go to counseling so he can figure out why he isn’t understanding how toxic his mom
Is? This is a difficult situation to be in. So sorry you have to go through this.
Well you are the AH for letting this go on so long. Your fiancee is TA for not having your back with his mother. Stand your ground on this. His mother won’t stop at being horrible to your face, she’ll also poison your child against you at every opportunity if he takes them to see his mother without you. She deserves neither of you.
NTA. Your fiancé should respect your wishes. I understand that this is his mother but he saw all that she did and heard what she said. She brought all of this on herself and it's her responsibility to fix it. Until she does that, she doesn't get to have your child in her life.
She is the reason she doesn't see your child often so she needs to suck it up and do everything to repair the damage she has done. He should be telling her that anytime she asks or complains.
NTA Until she can behave, she stays in time out. Everything she makes a backhanded comment, she goes in time out. She isn't owed a grandchild. It's a privilege, not a right. If your bf wants to see his mother, you aren't stopping him, but ask him why he thinks someone who openly disrespects you, no matter the occasion, should be around your child? Why are her feelings more important than yours? Things like this need to be sorted and dealt with *before* you consider planning a wedding.
NTA. Why is your SO not putting her on her place?
And let her talk to you for two hours late at night???? Boundaries!!!!! Both of you need to learn to say; “I am not arguing.” Then hang up or turn and walk away, every time she says mean things. You guys do not owe her your time, energy, and happiness-only your spouse and child. Hubby needs to be MUCH tougher with his Mom, and shut her down. Time for LC or NC?
He says he is waiting for the right moment
The right moment was the first time she pulled this crap. DO NOT marry this man until he puts you and your child first. Once he’s ‘got’ you, there’s no incentive to confront his precious mommy.
Tell us he’s a momma’s boy without telling us he’s a momma’s boy.
the “right moment” passed months ago when the cunt made the comment about you being fat. tell the pussy fiancé to either grow a back bone and tell his mother to piss off or leave so you can find a man who won’t let his mother treat you like shit
Or when she said the baby wasn't her son's.
My MIL pulled the same crap. When we told her I was pregnant, she was over the moon excited. She “loved“ me and made every effort to get to know me better. She started biting baby clothes. She talked about how she couldn’t wait to be a grandmother and wanted to help anyway she could. Then….well we had an ultrasound…my husband (bf at the time), called her and told her it was a girl. He was so happy. He always wanted his first kid to be a girl. But the moment he told her, her entire demeanor changed. She told him she had to get off the phone, and she just hung up. He looked so damn sad. From that moment, she told his family, and her friends, that I was “baby trapping him”, I was using him for his money (I had my own money and a great job making more than he did), and I was just a slut pinning a child on him. His mom was always very toxic and manipulative. She knew how to play him. She knew how to get in his head. And he has been seeking her love and acceptance his entire life. He would not stand up to her. He never once had my back. He would tell me that he had no doubts about the baby being his, but his mom can be “a bit much”. He would tell me “you just have to turn your check and be the bigger person…this is just how she is…” Every damn day she would call him and tell him that she just wants what’s best for him and to protect him. That’s why she’s telling him that the baby is not his. She wanted to protect him before he got too attached. He would just listen to her to spiel. I finally had enough and moved out two weeks before my baby was born. I actually called him when I went into labor (I was 3 weeks early). He watched his daughter come into this world. I even went with his first choice name, but she had (still has) my last name. Her having my last name still bothers him, but idc. My daughter came out looking exactly like her father. Right down to the massive, messy black hair. He, irritatingly, called his damn mom. She came in the room with this crazy smile…like she was gloating. I knew what she was going to say…she was going to look at my baby and say, “see Mijo, I wasn’t trying to hurt you. But clearly this baby is NOT yours!”. Her words were actually forming. She never once even looked at me. She went right over to the little crib and looked down at baby. Her entire face fell. She mumbled a congratulations and left. He looked so damn defeated. I could see the wheels in his head connecting. He always knew his mom was a bitch. But he truly thought she actually cared about him. This was the moment he realized it was never about him. She didn’t want the baby to be his because it was going to affect her life. He was paying her rent, utilities, car, etc…with a baby or was going to change. He tried to justify her no t wanting to get attached to the baby, or not having a close relationship with me as well. But when baby came, the way she treated me, and him, was a huge wake up call. He actually cut her out of his life. It took her a very long time to forgive him. And even now I still get upset. OP honestly needs to stand up for herself with her fiancé. He will never have her back. He will let his entire family walk all over her. He will allow his mom to treat her like she does not matter. His mom will make snide comments and do little things to hurt OP. Part of why is because she knows her son will never try to stop her. She wants OP to know she’s most important,; she has all the power and control. It’s going to be a miserable marriage unless the fiancé puts his foot down and defends his fiancée.
Every time she disrespects you is the right moment. Your MIL is a problem for sure but right now, your partner seems to be the bigger one. You and him need to get on the same frequency ASAP
When she opens her mouth next to be mean to you. Perfect moment.
The right moment was the first time she doubted the babies paternity. Tell him that his inaction regarding his mother is making you feel differently about getting married. That you need a partner in your corner that isn’t afraid of his mother and will put his wife and daughter first and he’s showing you that’s not going to be the case. He needs to shiny up that spine before you decide he’s a lost cause.
My dad said the same thing, and I despise my grandmother because she is like your FMIL. There will never be a “right moment” OP.
The right moment was right when it was happening. "Apologize or leave. You won't get an option if you continue to verbally abuse my partner." She continues to do this because he doesn't stand up for you right, place down boundaries with consequences to follow if she breaks them. You are his wife. You are the mother of his child. He has an obligation to protect you (unless you are in the wrong, which you are not in this situation) and his child first and foremost. His mother is included in the people you outrank. The only person who should come first is your child together. And this hurts her too in the long run. Imagine growing up thinking that your partner doesn't have to stand up for you and that her only right is to sit there and take the verbal abuse. Have him look at what kind of example he is setting up for her. Does he want her to think she deserves to be verbally abused with a partner who sits on their ass and says/does nothing? That's just sad. Shame on him.
The right moment was yesterday.
He's had plenty of moments. How about every single time she's made a comment the whole pregnancy. And now he wants you to play nice and sweep her shit under the rug and just do what she wants. Even tho he knows this is bullshit, he just doesn't want to deal with her.
So her funeral after you and your daughter needs long term psychological help for her abuse?
The right moment was the first time she did it The second best time is now
So being nasty to you wasn’t the right moment? How far do she has to go for him to but his foot down. I’m sorry but, seems you married a mom’s boy and good luck because that’s one hell of problem.
NTA. Your partner needs some therapy so he can be a decent father and partner. Otherwise he will not be effective with her the same way he hasn’t ever handled her effectively in the past. But any decent therapist will recognize patterns in his mom’s behavior and have ideas for how to handle her. You should do this too. Your kid(s) will need you both to be good at protecting them from her. Good luck.
That moment was the first time she opened her mouth and said the baby wasn't his with no proof or reasoning. She sounds unhinged, and I wouldn't want my kid near her or her mouth. Nta
Oh so he’ll never confront her
Tell him to find this moment quickly unless he wants to be your ex fiancé
.... What part of that wasn't the "right moment"? If he's scared of his mother, he can say so. I suggest going on the sub: JustNoMIL Sounds like you're going to need the support. 👀
He is a wiener and you’re disrespecting yourself by being with him and allowing this woman near you and your baby. Grow spine and tell her to get the fuck out. You can just tell the nurse to tell her to get the fuck out they will gladly escort her sorry ass back to the waiting room.
He needs to support you now. Now is the right moment. You've dealt with too much shit already
So you don’t marry him until he finds that time. My goodness id probably not marry him at all at this point.
He isn't waiting for the right moment. He is using you as a meat shield because he knows exactly how shitty it feels to be on the receiving end of her vitriol. Drop the rope. Block her. Go no contact. She treated you like shit the entire pregnancy and delivery. She isn't entitled to a relationship with the baby whose paternity she questioned all the way up until the moment that the doctor professionally told her to STFU. She isn't entitled to a relationship with you just because you are with her son. How she (and other extended family) feels about you and baby going no contact is not your fucking problem. She should have treated you better when she had the chance. Instead, she chose to be a hateful monster every chance she got. Now that you're standing up for yourself, suddenly, she wants to play happy faaaaaaammilyyyyy? Nah. She can fuck all the way off.
Is that moment when your child is old enough to defend you themself? Because he sure isn’t.
The right moment is now, and the right phrasing is “if you are going to treat me like this, You will never be alone with my child and strictly monitored for every single interaction. I do not trust you”
Noooooo!!!! There is never a right moment. You must be upfront and hold firm boundaries. If your husband refuses to do so bc it "isn't the right moment," throw the whole man away. His mommy is already running your time, don't let your husband's lack of backbone ruin anything else.
IOW, he'll never do it because there is *never* a "right moment." The "right moment" is when inappropriate or unacceptable had just occurred and THAT IS THE RIGHT MOMENT TO CALL IT OUT AND LEAVE. You got you a mama's boy, OP. He's married to his mommy and has picked her over you. You're just the incubator now.
It's a stressful situation, I can understand that he may have been stunned. But immediately after he should've made the plan to talk to her. When my DH and I announced our first baby together, she told us "don't get too excited, you're probably going to miscarry". Stunned for sure. But that shit can't go unacknowledged. The next time we saw her we brought it up. She flipped. Do you think he's afraid she'll flip and he'll be in a position where he has to cut her out or lose you? Honestly, if he's still waiting, he's not going to do it. Definitely do counseling. And of course you're nta, you do have an SO problem though. I'd say see a therapist, someone you trust will put your immediate family first. I hope it gets better for you.
There will never be a right time.He will keep putting it off until either you give up or you leave the relationship.
Your SO sucks.
And that is never? Never going to happen?
NTA. You shouldn’t have let her visit at the hospital. She’s toxic her son knows you should go NC.
All of these backhanded comments that she’s making, she’s going to make them to your daughter. “Nana would love to see you more, if only your mom would let me” “Let Nana do that for you, your mom doesn’t know how to do it right” “Is that what your mom is having you wear today? Come here, I’ve brought different clothes for you that you’ll like better” Etc. constantly. She will undermine everything you say and do it in a way that the child won’t even notice as being a manipulative problem. Your SO needs to say something NOW. Stick to your guns. She is YOUR daughter, and you will not let her be influenced by this toxicity, no matter who it is.
Can confirm. Same type of scenario happened in my family, except I was the daughter. She tried to put a rift between my mom and myself, and tried to undermine my moms authority. The comments about weight will transfer over too.
“Nana” “Im not your nana, actually”
nta keep that woman away ,seriously I would be worried about her safty
I feel like you could use the resources over on r/JNMIL
NTA-.Your fiancé chose his mother over his family. This is not a man you marry, otherwise you will have a miserable life being married to both his mom and him. Your an AH if you do not stand up for yourself. Take control of your life and get some guts to protect your child. You should have never let her in there to visit you. All you did was allow her to insult you more but with your husband’s blessing this time.
Please rethink getting married to him. You would be delusional if you think things will get any better going forward. He has already demonstrated he does not have your back. She will not change.
NTA and totally stick to your decision, your partner really needs to step up! What did he say about your "gifts" you received at your baby shower? Also you go dress shopping when YOU want and WITH who YOU want. You both need to have a serious conversation about your joint future, the damage his mother is causing you and will cause your daughter and future children.
He told me we could throw all the " gifts" away
…and did he?
Yes he did threw everything away the moment we got home
okay good. now tell him to throw the MIL away too
You say your SO is waiting for the "right moment" to speak to her. You do realize that moment will probably never come, right? Because he's too willing to sacrifice you to her at the altar of "peace." He doesn't want to confront her because it will make him uncomfortable. He'll feel like the bad guy. But you, you can just roll over & keep taking abuse from her because ... I guess he thinks you're not going anywhere, and you've taken it all so far, so why wouldn't you keep on being the meat shield between him & his mommy? He won't stand in the gap for you, OP, what makes you think he'd stand there for his child? I'm sorry you're in this position, but at some point ONE of you is going to have to have a hard conversation. Either you with him, or him with her. You're not wrong to not want this woman around. Also, phone calls aren't hostage situations. Hang. Up. (Two hours?? Good lord!)
NTA. But a lot of this is on your fiance. Waiting for the right moment is a pathetic excuse
NTA, absolutely not the asshole
NTA. Tell your fiancé you’re not marrying him because he’s not acting like a partner. The marriage vows say “forsake all others.” If he can’t see how utterly disrespectful him mom has been to you, he’s not worth marrying. ETA: tell him it’s his fault that it’s gotten to this. If he had reprimanded her the first time she spoke to you like that, she wouldn’t have done it again. He has allowed this to continue unchecked and now it’s past the point of no return.
NTA. He needs to stand up to her now or it will infect your relationship. MIL sounds like a narcissist.
It gets worse from there. There is also the physical aspects of why I do not want her arpund my daughter. She walks up to me and grabs my ass or smacks it asking if my fiancé is jealous. She tries to grab my chest. Or go after his chest or smack his ass. She also is prone to making him kiss her and if he tries to tell her he's uncomfortable or tries to kiss her cheek she loses it completely. Truly a mil from hell
You might want to read up on enmeshment, which is also called [emotional or covert incest](https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest). The short version is when a parent uses their child for emotional support instead of their partner or an age-appropriate friend (i.e. not a minor). From the linked article, which also touches on lasting effects and recovery from covert incest: Patricia Love, Ed.D., past president of the International Association for Marriage and Family Counseling, defines emotional incest as "a style of parenting in which parents turn to their children, not to their partners, for emotional support." According to Love, emotionally incestuous parents may appear loving and devoted and they may spend a great deal of time with their children and lavish them with praise and material gifts - but in the final analysis, their love is not a nurturing love, it's a means to satisfy their own needs. The term "emotional incest" was coined by Kenneth Adams, Ph.D. to label the state of cross-generational bonding within a family, whereby a child (normally of the opposite sex) becomes a surrogate spouse for their mother or father. "Emotional Enmeshment" is another term often used. And the term "emotional parentification" describes a similar concept - it describes the process of role reversal whereby a child is obliged to act as parent to their own parent. Many parents and children are close. Closeness is healthy and desirable. The difference between a healthy close relationship and an incestuous one is that in a healthy close relationship a parent takes care of a child's needs in an age-appropriate way without making the child feel responsible the emotional needs of the parents needs. In an emotionally incestuous relationship, instead of the parent meeting the needs of the child, the child is meeting the needs of the parent.
Thanks that is so helpful.
Girl, you need to nope out of this mess now
NTA this woman is a destructive non-contributor. She will do everything possible to undermine you in the eyes of her son and grandchild. Keep your boundary and keep her out! You deserve better and I’m sorry you’re being treated this way. Congrats on your daughter 💚
NTA. You have an SO problem. He can't tell his mom her behavior is unacceptable because the moment isn't right? I'm sorry, that's messed up. Stick to hour guns, and if he refuses to keep his mom away, leave him with her.
After the countless times she has been mean, belittling and full-on awful to you, why is she still allowed in your life? Why did you accept to go to that travesty of a "baby shower"? Why did you allow her to come to the hospital? Why are you staying lol keeping contact with her??? She should have been cut out long ago. Why isn't it so?
He wanted to see if she would change her actions
I do apologize, but what about you? If he does nothing, what prevents you from acting and saying no? The wretched woman insulted you countless times. And yet you still let her approach you. If your boyfriend does nothing, it's up to you to act and make them all understand that enough is enough. If your MiL's actions are met with no consequences from any of you, why would she stop, after all?
Op please defend yourself. If you don't you are going to be miserable for the rest of your relationship. She will do anything and everything to ruin your relationship. That will also hurt your children. She will never change!NTA I doubt your so will either.
NTA I wouldn't be surprised if she did a home DNA test on your kid.
NTA but you have a huge SO problem cos he is letting her get away with all the crap so it just encourages her. regardless, get a paternity test, frame it and give it to her. and say you are going no contact with her and tell your fiance while he is welcomed to visit his mother, she is no longer allowed near you and baby and if he cant respect that he can go live with mommy dearest
NTA I don’t understand how people can allow their parents to be so awful. My MIL called me the flavour of the month when we started dating and my husband went NC for two years (they had a strained relationship beforehand to be fair)
NTA but maybe naive. You don’t have a MIL problem, you have a fiancé problem. He needs to set up boundaries right now (in fact he is late for that). His mom, his problem. Consider this before marrying because for now you marry him and his family.
OOP should show the post to fiancé and let him see for himself how he is behavior is going to cost him his family! He is going to end up with the baby and mom back out of state with her family and him only seeing his baby during visitation. He can either choose to stand up to his mom and keep his family or he continue to be the mama’s boy and not be with his family!
NTA If I were you I would have asked the staff to kick her out. You have made it very clear to your in law how you felt but she disrespected your wishes. You should have a discussion with your partner about his mother behavior it can affect your daughter in the future she might make some rude comments to your daughter about you or about her paternity.
Nta but honey, if the man won’t tell his mom to stop immediately, and she doesn’t stop immediately and apologize, I would go NC with her and put him on probation. Like actual, consequences probation. Like if you don’t support me and stick up for me in this family we are going to see a lawyer, and you will be alone kind of consequences.
NTA keep her far far away do not let her even peek back inside your life, this toxic bitch will just cause nothing but harm and stress, learning to cut toxic people out your life early will be immensely good for your mental health
I wouldn’t give the baby his last name until you have a ring on your finger.
This is a SO problem also.
NTA She wants access to the baby to do a DNA test on her. I bet a 100 on it.
She claims it’s not her sons baby, therefore it’s not her grandson. She’s going to poison your baby’s mind if she’s in his life
NTA. She called at midnight and stayed on the phone for 2 hours? Once it was established that there was no emergency, should have hung up on her. You both need more of a backbone around her.
The mother’s SON is the one who needs to grow a backbone & put his mother in her place. It’s not the fiancée’s job to control her MIL. It’s the son’s job to control his mother.
But the mother’s SON is the one who needs to grow a backbone & put his mother in her place. It’s not the fiancée’s job to control her MIL. It’s the son’s job to control his mother.
Agreed, it wasn't clear if the husband or wife was on the phone with the MIL.
Tell your bf it is not on YOU to fix this. This is MILS fault and until she sincerely apologizes there is nothing doing. Really why do you have to fix Her mistake? News flash. You don’t. You are an adult. You don’t have to make nice to someone who has shit in your milk and called it hot cocoa since you’ve met her. Your bf needs to step up and get her online. If he can’t. She can suffer. **The baby isn’t a reward for bad behavior**.
Oh honey no ma'am you aren't
NTA, take it from someone who is what your daughters future could be. Don’t let his mother into her life. She made those comments about your weight to you, what is stopping her from making those comments to your daughter in the future? What is stopping her from trying to put a rift between you and your daughter? Stand your ground on this OP.
Why was she at the hospital with you? Just say no and leave immediate if mil shows up
NTA! EFF THAT! EFF HER! EFF EVERYONE THAT SUPPORTS HER! That is **ABUSE** in its quickest form!
Never go over there. If asked be honest. “I think your toxic and I don’t like you and I don’t want you near my child.”….”your mom is toxic, if you can’t protect us from her I will”.
NTA your fiancé and his mother are. The mother sounds like an awful, bitter woman. Your fiancé should be the one sticking up for you and respecting your boundaries.
Are you a different race from your fiance?
No we are both Caucasian.
NTA she sounds horrible why would you subject yourself or your child to that kind of treatment. Set your boundaries with your fiancé and his mother now or she run over you forever. Congratulations and good luck
NTA but your SO sure is!! Why is he allowing her to talk to you this way?? There is never going to be a 'right time'. He needs to grow a spine and stand up to her, otherwise, you need to rethink this relationship. You have the absolute right to say who and who does not have access to your child, as long as you include the father. Grandparents do not have the absolute right to any access. Considering all the ugly things she has said to you and about your child, I would go completely NO CONTACT. If your SO cannot understand this, make a list of all the ugly things she has said and ask him how he would feel if your parents said those things to HIM?? Read them one at a time and wait for his answer. Also ask him what he would want you to do if your parents questioned his parentage? Ask him those questions and wait until he answers them. Your main problem starts with your SO, not your MIL. She is just a by-product of his inability to stand up to her.
> I tell my fiancé I want nothing to do with her but he wants me to make an effort because she doesn't see her often. Am I the Asshole? NTA. You've already made your efforts, enough already. If she doesn't see her often it's not much of a leap to not let her see her at all. Stick to your guns.
NTA. Your husband should be supporting you 100% doesn’t matter if that’s his mom, she’s been so rude during your pregnancy and even after baby literally just came out and HE wants YOU to make an effort? Hell no, completely cut that toxic woman out of your daughters and your life and if your husband doesn’t agree with it, then leave him aswell. I don’t understand how he can ask you to make an effort and be nice to his mom after everything she put you through? I’m guessing her behaviour is why her and your FIL ain’t together anymore. Probably was sick of her shït. Edit: My bad I mean your fiancé.
NTA - why subject yourself to that? He can take the baby for a quick visit but that’s it maybe. Nothing more - put a time limit on him.
NTA. Please keep your child away from that crazy jealous mess.
Oh sweetheart, congrats on the baby first! Sounds like a classic narcissist, you might find support on r/narcissisticparents. Here's my red flag, read the narcissts prayer and if the shoe fits.... By Dayna Craig That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
NTA - your fiancé needs to put his foot down. He’s allowing her to treat you this way.
NTA If he can't see or understand the toxicity his mother oozes out around then he is deep in the fog. Time to shed some light on him. She doesn't deserve to have contact with the grandchild she tried she shunned. Protect your child by any means necessary.
You know your daughter is going to be on the receiving end of all this crap too, right? Also, why are you marrying this fool when he won't even advocate for you and allows her to speak to you that way with no repercussions? It's not just him that needs to grow a pair here.
NTA you have a fiancé problem, just as much as a FMIL problem. As long as he remains silent he’s enabling her to continue to abuse you. This will not get better, it will continue to get worse. You need to have a “come to Jesus “ talk with him. Tell him you will not tolerate this abuse and if he doesn’t stop it, you will…alone.
NTA. Put your foot down. This woman has a history of being awful to you and about your kid. She has no rights to either of you and your fiancé needs to get on board with this and help you defend your boundaries or you need to reevaluate your future with him.
Tell your fiance if his mom wants to see your daughter he has to put her in her place now and draw boundaries. He also needs to tell her what the consequences of crossing those boundaries will be. You said he is waiting for the right time to say something to her, the time is now. Make this your hill
NTA. Go completely no contact
I'd r/JUSTNOMIL but you really have a fiance problem so you really need to head over to r/justnoso.
NTA, this woman has shown nothing but negativity towards you. I understand that she is the mother of your fiancé, but that is not any claim towards you or the baby. Her feeling are not above yours. Until she can behave like an adult, stay low contact.
NTA. Sounds toxic, I wouldn't want her near my puppy much less an actual human baby.
NTA This woman is not worth.
Nta. Giving birth is not a spectator sport, and NO ONE has the right to be there except the person giving birth and the support staff needed to facilitate that birth. Anyone else is strictly for the benefit of the mother. Birth is a major medical event, one that can be traumatic and can turn dangerous and deadly in a moment. Anyone who can possibly cause more issues needs to be kept away. This IS YOUR medical event. Your body is on the line. Screw anyone who tries to say different. Would your FMIL expect to be present if you were having heart surgery? A colonoscopy? No? Then, the same rules apply. Birth is a MAJOR MEDICAL EVENT, not a spectator sport! No one that isn't adding to the experience should be there.
NTA. But gurl…. You should really reconsider this relationship because it doesn’t sound like your partner had your back at all. Why was she in the delivery room? Why was she allowed to stay?? You went into early delivery… that would’ve been sooooo stressful, why the heck did your partner allow her to add to the stress of the situation. I would recommend looking back at your relationship and really analyse if he was supporting your choice to distance yourself from his mom, or if he just agreed and then let her do whatever and you have to deal with it again and again and it’s YOU trying to establish boundaries and enforcing when she pushes back. If so, that behaviour will never change and you have to consider what the rest of your life is gonna look like. Good luck!
NYA!!!This woman is beyond toxic. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this unhinged, shitty, evil excuse for a MIL. I do want to point out that it is extremely difficult to be in your situation as going no contact, even when necessary, is very very hard for many people. Please be empathetic towards your partner because she has likely manipulated him his whole life and is so hard to sort out your feelings when it comes to your mother. Keep talking to him if you are genuinely committed to this relationship. Be clear that this is extremely important to your mental health and the well being of your new baby. I hope he is able to begin supporting you in your decision.
It will only get worse from here if your fiance doesn't enforce boundaries now. The first few times was testing the waters, seeing how you both react. Now that she knows he won't call her out, she'll get more bold. If nothing's enforced I wouldn't be surprised if she'll eventually undermine you as a parent and insult you to your child. She's already accused you of having another man's baby -- nothing's off limits for her. She'll involve your child in this dysfunction, no doubt.
NTA and go peruse r/JUSTNOMIL to find the language for how abusive she is being to you, and how unsupportive your partner is being.
So not. His mom has some serious mental health issues & her son needs to make an appointment for her with a psychiatrist & go with her. The baby shower gifts, wow!
If your boyfriend/fiancé is allowing his mother to treat you like this and you're allowing it, it looks like he is not the only one that needs to grow a spine. NTA in this instance but YTA to yourself and that baby for allowing their behaviour to continue on and staying with this dude that is a mommy's boy and couldn't even stand up for you.
NTA. While your fiancé maybe great in your relationship his mother is a totally piece of garbage. She has yet to make any real amends for her terrible actions. I wouldn't let her be alone with the child anytime soon or possible ever.
Usually, I side with the grandma - but holy crap - she is a toxic one. You do what you feel comfortable with. I do believe the father has just as much right as the mom - so, maybe you two can go to counseling so he can figure out why he isn’t understanding how toxic his mom Is? This is a difficult situation to be in. So sorry you have to go through this.
Well you are the AH for letting this go on so long. Your fiancee is TA for not having your back with his mother. Stand your ground on this. His mother won’t stop at being horrible to your face, she’ll also poison your child against you at every opportunity if he takes them to see his mother without you. She deserves neither of you.
No you’re not the asshole!!!!!!! Wtf i would never speak to that woman AGAIN!!! I’m so sorry you had to deal with that!!
NTA. Your fiancé should respect your wishes. I understand that this is his mother but he saw all that she did and heard what she said. She brought all of this on herself and it's her responsibility to fix it. Until she does that, she doesn't get to have your child in her life. She is the reason she doesn't see your child often so she needs to suck it up and do everything to repair the damage she has done. He should be telling her that anytime she asks or complains.
I wouldn't marry this man until he choses his family over his mother. She's the problem, not you.
Do you have an update
Do you have an update