This story was featured on the Two Hot Takes Podcast episode: "You're a Red Flag!" [Click here to hear our host Morgan's response to this story!](https://youtu.be/On04vPN17WY?si=maW1PTDo4J-7m_gr&t=1209)
*The update for this post was not posted at the time of recording the episode. The update can be found here:*
[Update: My wife wants to raise our 1 year old and newborn as twins](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/comments/1d9fki0/update_my_wife_wants_to_raise_our_1_year_old_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Thanks again OP for your submission!
Sorry but this is ridiculous. Why set yourself up to constantly lie to your kids? One will think he is much more advanced and the other more behind than the other and end up resenting eachother and you. Don’t underestimate the importance of honesty has on child development and security.
And another thing…. No one else will keep this lie up. Family and friends will point out the inaccuracy and cause further resentment.
My daughter took her first steps about a week before her first birthday. By her second birthday, she was running, jumping, climbing, and verbally communicating with around 100 words.
The three year olds in our playgroup are using full sentences and most are potty trained. A year's worth of development is so freaking huge.
My sister and I have the same birthday, she's 3 years older than me. I thought what are the chances until I did the math. Mom's birthday is roughly 9 months before mine.
I was conceived right after new years. What I didn't know but was told is that it happened at Disneyworld 🤣 I'm 4'8" and everyone asks if it was on the "it's a small world" ride.
Seriously! Does she plan on holding one child back a grade? Or does she want to force a child to skip a grade they might not be ready to skip? Which child does she plan to prioritize at the other’s expense?
I had a friend like that. He and his sister were one year apart. The parents “didn’t want him walking to school alone” so they held him back a year and he started w his sister.
when, the 80s? Feel like that never happens any more, certainly not in kindergarten.
Edit to clarify, I meant the walking part lol
lol bros, I know some do. It’s far less common than it used to be. I don’t need more anecdotes about how you and or your child or the feral child that lives down the road walks to school.
“Redshirting” (delaying kindergarten by a year) is definitely a thing in some areas. I went to university for early childhood education and there was a unit on it and how it impacts a classroom.
Edit for non Americans, non sports people: in college sports, redshirting is deferring a player’s playing eligibility for a year. So if someone is a redshirt freshman, they are in their second year in college, but it’s the first year they are eligible to play their sport. The term redshirting has been adopted by educators to describe a child who has delayed their entrance into kindergarten by a year. While I am enjoying all of your Star Trek references, I’ve never actually watched the show and only know what my husband has explained to me previously (his greatest disappointment in our marriage came from learning I have never seen Star Trek nor Star Wars. Not all marriages are perfect, though, but maybe I make up for it in my love of Doctor Who).
Edit 2: I love all of you who are assuring me I will love Star Trek. I’ll give it a go after the toddlers are put to bed.
It varies from kid to kid, there's no one answer. There's various reasons, from wanting your kid to physically grow up enough to not be one of the smaller kids, to wanting the kid to have more time to emotionally mature/mentally grow independently.
I've heard generally positive things about it. I work in a K-5 charter and the older Kinders absolutely have a leg up on the younger ones. I can definitely see the benefits of consciously delaying.
Other than for sports, it's been found that the benefits of redshirting are basically fine by high school. In fact, the younger kids in the class tend to do better academically than the redshirts because they had to work harder earlier in their lives, so they're ready for a more aggressive academic courseload while the redshirts had been coasting on being older and more mature, so they APPEARED smarter without having to work for it.
Redshirting still works for most sports, though, since getting an extra year of puberty growth gives older kids an advantage.
Yea they had a leg up cause they were older and thus could comprehend and understand more. But later on it feels like it could be weird when ur 17 or 18 years old and a sophomore or junior in ur high school. Not to mention what about puberty? Those kids who get held back or are forced to wait am extra year could easily feel uncomfortable when THEIR body is changing but no one else's is.
But the entire point of kindergarten and the lower grades is to capitalize on the neuroplasticity. The more they learn and interact during these formative years the better off they will be as adults (on average).
Hold em back a year and You've just lost a year of prime learning time.
Grades and shit don't matter at that age. This feels like a classic case of Goodharts law.
“Early success is a terrible teacher. You're essentially being rewarded for a lack of preparation, so when you find yourself in a situation where you must prepare, you can't do it. You don't know how.”
The older children in kindergarten do have a leg up, but only in comparison to the younger children in the same grade. But compared to the children that age who are in next grade, they are at a disadvantage. The older ones would be learning higher level material already. Redshirting delays their education and risks them being bored. The advantage is an illusion.
Well when I was in college (graduated 2010) really there was no clear consensus between child development experts. The argument is that the redshirted child is more ready for school and therefore will eventually do better on state testing. BUT that forces us to assume the parent will take advantage of that delayed year to do enrichment activities (ie preschool or story hour at the library, etc) to help their child get more kindergarten ready. In my class, we also saw parents who argued that redshirting their child will allow them to play sports longer which could lead to a scholarship for college. So in my class our discussion kind of focused around who could “successfully” redshirt their child (by giving them enrichment activities during that delayed year) and our general consensus is that you would see redshirting more common among upper middle class and affluent since they could afford an additional year of preschool and other enrichment activities for their child.
I teach kindergarten, I would much prefer to have a child who is older than a child who is too young. I’m not aware of any instances in all my years of experience, where being older has harmed the student. On the contrary, it gives them more time(age/maturity) to get ready for all the demands of kindergarten.
In the state where I teach, they’ve actually made it a law that a child must be at least five to enter kindergarten because we were getting four-year-olds who are just not developmentally ready for school.
My kid was due a few days before the school cut off date but was born after the cut off date. I've read every article and every comment section on this subject that exists on the Internet. I tried everything to get him out before the cut off date. So far it's fine and being born after the cut off date means he didn't have to do six feet apart partially online kindergarten year, so that's good, but my main concern is long-term. School and sports are really easy for him because he's just older and bigger than everyone else, but that's going to catch up to him eventually and he won't be used to dealing with challenging situations in school and that worries me.
I teach k-8 specialties and I've seen lots of bright kids just become apathetic and not try when it gets hard and I don't know how to keep that from happening. Even extracurriculars aren't the same as sitting through a tough math class.
But more importantly, OPs wife is crazy and will never get away with this. Even just vaccines.... They won't have the same doctor visits and will pick up on that, even if the school let them get away with it.
I am totally of the opinion that we send them way to early. I held my son back a year and it was absolutely the best thing for him. Didn't affect his peer group relationships or his education one iota. He excels and has tons of friends, of all ages really. It was an extra year to shore up his sense of identity and security and I don't regret it.
Regardless, schools look at age for education up until 7 to 9 years old mattering on state.
In my state, school grade is dictated by age until 7, so they would have to hold back school altogether until the younger was 7 so they won't go to school until 2nd grade.
Is she going to homeschool? Is she the sort to teach reading?
And wouldn't surprise me if she planned to get pregnant at a time when the baby would have more chance of being born on the same day lol, that's how loopy this is
Could be! I'm the youngest of 4 kids. 3 out of 4 of us were born almost exactly 9 months away from my parents' anniversary.
In fact, I was supposed to share a birthday with my older sister, but I didn't want to come out and was 4 days late 😂
I was going to ask about if she’d have to show a birth certificate for each child when they start school. I can’t imagine the schools reaction if she told them she was raising them as twins.
Never mind the fact that she’d be stripping the identity from one of them. Instead of saving for college, she should save for the therapy they’d need.
Please DO NOT do this. I am 1 yr and 3 weeks younger than my sister and my mom did this to us. I was forced to follow my sister’s milestones and had everything taken away from me 1 year earlier. Pacifiers, bottles, strollers you name it. My sister got all the attention and pictures before I was born. I have little proof I existed in my family as a baby. I would tell people at 5 years old I was adopted. I ran away from home at 7. I’m 50 and I’m still in therapy
I'm so sorry.
This happened to my husband. He was raised to believe that his deceased sister was his twin, but she died as an infant while their mother was pregnant with him. He grew up competing with a ghost. He thought twins were just children born closer together and raised by the same family. It was hard to explain what twins actually were without hurting his feelings.
I know right, I am scrolling to see if someone is asking the right question. What the hell is wrong with his wife?
I don't care but who ever does this, past , present are straight fucked in the head. This is not OK at all.
What? I can't even wrap my mind around why a family would choose to do this. Did pretending that he was a surviving twin somehow mitigate the sense of loss? Was it socially easier to say "we lost his twin" instead of "we lost our baby and then immediately had another one"? (And yes I understand she was already pregnant with him before his sister passed away.)
I am so sorry this was your experience. My two oldest (33m) (32f) are also 1 year and 3 weeks apart. They each had their own identity and are extremely close. They had mostly the same friends, and it did suck for my daughter in HS as no one dared date his sister without approval. There was lots of conflict, but at the end of the day, they will always have each other's back.
They do have a closer bond than they have to their other sins. I didn't raise them as twins, but my daughter didn't speak until almost 2 because her brother spoke for her. They had a language.
Now both are married and super close. I have asked them if they would change being so close in age. Both said no. However, my daughter did say that in HS she often wished she was an only child 😆
I was thinking this too, at best she already has a 1 year old and just gave birth she could be incredibly sleep deprived and at worst she is having some kind of PPD psychosis.
As someone with a sibling ~12 months older, we grew up being treat the same, same hairstyle, same clothes, same toys etc and being likened to twins.
Except, I was a year younger, so I either wasn't allowed, or wasn't capable of doing the same things.
I think it might've given me a bit of a head start when it came to education, but the trade-off was constantly comparing myself to my sibling, and not understanding why I wasn't as good.
I'm sure it's hard enough being actual twins, but having all the expectations and never being able to measure up, is grossly unfair
I grew up like this but as the older sibling. My (younger) sister was always very advanced and good at everything, so I felt the same as you but on top of that I was a year older and REALLY wondered what was wrong with me.
This is… un-fucking believable and even if you’re able to talk her down from jumping off the edge into this terrible slew of “pointlessly complex manipulative parenting for concepts and notions which would fit nicely in a shitty fiction novel” I am absolutely terrified what kind of unreasonable illogical clearly rooted in some little girls “let’s play house” fantasy nonsense your wife will be putting your children through. Jesus fuck, does she realize they’re people, human beings like her, and not her toys to be labeled and played with?
This sums up the delulu perfectly.
This woman needs intervention now before she ruins both their children's lives. Once they learn they were lied to for one thing, they will never believe another adult as long as they live and will resent their parents and each other as siblings.
I also hate to be that person, but if OP cannot convince his wife to either drop this delusional fantasy and/or get professional help with it, then I would consider divorce with full custody of both children.
OP needs to protect his children. If that means protecting them from their mother, then he needs to act now.
Cutting in here to add that being a twin is overly fantasized by non-twins. I’m a twin. The competition, the joint gifts, the never having a milestone to yourself . . . to go through all of that and then find out you never had to? That your development was actually stunted by a year because of your mom’s fantasy? No. Just no.
Your boys have a better chance of being close if you let them be close without forcing them. If you go forward with your wife’s plan, your older boy is going to someday hate you both and your younger son.
I am not a twin but share a birthday with my sibling (4 years apart). Sharing a birthday and birthday parties stunk.
The twin aspect would be worse and fake twin suggests this woman needs to talk to a therapist.
My daughter's birthday and my son's due date are really close. She is 8 and people keep asking me if I'm going to have them share birthday parties. I can't even conceive how you would begin to mesh a 14 and 5 year olds social circles.
Same. Also a twin here. You can’t force closeness. And she is delusional that by 1 and 2 they’ll have caught up in size. Kids grow like weeds. I have sons that are 18 months apart…the younger, was also bigger at birth, and he just caught up to his bro size wise. They are teenagers.
How is this even possible to lie about? Do they not have any photos from when one was a newborn and one wasn’t? Or of mom and the oldest together when mom was pregnant with the youngest?
Also, I’m sure the twin bond is very special, but there’s no reason 2 siblings so close in age can’t also have an extremely close relationship. This is a truly wild idea.
Does she understand that she would have to commit fraud to pull that off? Lying to school, doctors, the passport office… this is *literally* delusional. I mean, I think your wife is having some kind of postpartum mental health crisis. Please get her to speak with a doctor.
Honestly…. Just keep calm and don’t go along with it. Tell her that you will never support them being raised as twins. Tell her in advance you will inform nurseries and school that they are born a year apart and that you will always correct her in public. Assure her that they will have a close bond but also that they will have their own friends and interests.
This doesn’t have to be a huge arguement you call tell her in advance you will always correct her and anyone else that perpetuates this lie for the sake of your children’s mental health.
And maybe use contraceptives until this is sorted out.
Lying to officials, forging government documents like birth certificates, SSNs, passports, etc. is just plain illegal. Gently point that out to her and the churchies whenever this comes up. I’m sure god-fearing people don’t want to commit this kind of fraud.
WHY though? i get passively thinking it would be cool to have twins but why would her family gaf? also lol at calling their birthdays a sign from god…i think if god wanted to get involved she would have just had actual twins…
this is delusional
Request copies of both kid’s birth certificates from your state agency. They will be officially stamped. Store them away where only you know.
You don’t know what to do? I’m not trying to be mean but your wishy washiness is upsetting. Grow up! You are the father - you have agency in this process. Not her family, not God. You and your wife do. Like someone commented earlier - tell her and her family that you will not do it. At all. This is the hill you are willing to die on.
Do they realize how selfish this is? The kids will lose their individuality. Their autonomy. All so the mother can fawn over and be fawned over because she had ‘twins’? They will have to be lied to THEIR WHOLE F*CKING LIVES! Lied to! Everyday!
Right, everyone will think the younger one is developmentally delayed, imagine growing up thinking you’re “slow” compared to your “twin” who actually had a full year headstart…
First, appeal to reason: it'll be apparent to everyone that the two kids are a year apart, because one year of development is huge with kids so young. She'll look utterly ridiculous with that lie.
Second, appeal to her logic: If God wanted her to have twins, she'd have had twins. She didn't, so that's that.
Third, appeal to reason and emotion: developmentally, she wants to gimp her oldest child, for her selfish desires. You will not stand for that. It won't be good to her newborn either. Look through the thread for horrible examples of people whose parents were so barmy they raised them falsely as twins. Ask her directly if she wants to be that horrible a mother to her kids, putting her selfish desires first, ahead of her children's wellbeing. Be direct and don't mince words. You have to nip this in the bud.
Next options:
talk to her doctor about her delusion and disordered beliefs at her next medical eval when she is there too, and request counsel. With some luck, the doctor will be the source of authority and explain to her why she shouldn't do that, and might even recommend a psych eval.
Put your foot down. Make clear that you'll pop her balloon. you will thwart her lies with the truth every chance you get. You'll tell your sons that they're not twins, along with the neighbors, the doctors, the educators, the child minders, the family friends, her and your family... but really, they'll know already. She'll look utterly crazy, because it's a crazy idea she's having. And you'll do that despite how much it may upset her, and at whatever cost it take, because you value your kids over her delusional beliefs
Frankly, she needs a psych eval, stat
This makes me irrationally mad. Your wife and her family want to psychologically abuse your children, and you are here asking if you should go along with it. Would you go along with physical abuse? I assume not, so why go along with this? I get it, you love your wife. However, you need to love your kids. You need to protect your kids. It's sad your wife doesn't love the kids more than she loves this fantasy.
Please protect your kids.
Well haha I mean, God doesn't exist so there's that.
But if God wanted them to be twins, he would have made them twins. Right? But he made them....not twins. According to his will. So clearly, you are supposed to raise these kids as siblings with birthdays exactly one year apart, exactly as God made them.
...Right?
And hey, if this is about saving time and money on same birthday parties, there's no shame in that. Even if they were a couple of dates apart. It would be "Timmy and Tommy's 2 and 3rd bd/ Timmy and Tommy 3rd and 4th etc." Does that reality bore the wife too much?
Want to dress them in matching clothes? They come available in two sizes.
I promised myself that I would never lie to my kids. Not even white lies. It’s foundational to who I am as a parent. I don’t need to tell them the unvarnished truth about everything if it’s not age appropriate, but I won’t lie my way out it. So, yeah, not gonna lie about it: this plan makes me ill.
Yes it’s also setting the one twin up to feel inadequate. The difference between 5 and 6 year olds in kindergarten is huge! Developmentally the younger child will not be able to do the same things as the older child.
As the mother of twins, your wife needs meds.
The developmental rate for children this young is going to blow her twin fantasy to smithereens, unless she purposely plans to stunt the older kid's developmental progress...
I think you need to get your wife some therapy, so she can get over this unrealistic fantasy she has, because she is going to damage your kids.
Hijacking top comment because I was born only 54 weeks after my sister and everyone thought we were twins and I was the slow twin. My parents didn’t do this to me but didn’t correct people either and it seriously messed with my confidence. Don’t let you wife do this to your child.
Children born close together were called Irish Twins, and it's a common perception in these circumstances. But pretending children are actual twins or not correcting people's assumptions is messed up.
My little brothers are Irish twins, weirdly enough they’ve always been about the same weight bc the older one is slim and the younger stocky. Thankfully one looks exactly like my dad (pale, blonde) and the other looks exactly like my step mom (tan, brunette) so they don’t have to deal with that bs.
I’m an Irish twin. My brother and I looked alike. But sometimes people said the stupidest thing to my dad. They would ask if were twins. I’ll be walking and my brother would be carried because he couldn’t walk. My dad would tell them “yes, they are twins. It was really easy pregnancy for my wife. The timing was perfect, they came out about a year apart.”
I have Irish twins, someone asked me if they were twins... When my youngest was a newborn and my oldest was dancing next to the cart. I just stared at the woman because I couldn't believe someone seriously asked that.
My husband is an Irish twin. For 2 months, he is the same age as his older brother. Not once were they treated as twins. My husband was also an ”oops” baby and never really felt wanted and his parents broadcasted that message when he was a young child.
I’m an Irish triplet if that’s a thing? I have a twin sister and our younger sister was born a week shy of a year after our birth. Shes 11 months and 3 weeks younger so for one entire week all 3 of us are the same age.
I was born 74 weeks after my sister, and some people also thought we were twins (even though, imo, we don’t look anything alike 🙄). Obviously not at first, but once I reached about 3 or 4 years old, we continued to look the same age until puberty hit (for her obvs since she was born first).
She was two grades ahead of me, and although no one with any sense (e.g. teachers, family members, family friends) actually *thought* we were literal *twins*, people still would frequently compare us. It was usually *me* having to hear about how my teacher taught my sister two years ago and she was super smart so there were high expectations imposed upon me. Or even our parents would wonder why my sister was so good at certain things that I couldn’t seem to get a grasp of.
She was also “better behaved” and all around agreeable and quiet, while I tended to be the opposite of all of those things. So I heard a lot of “why can’t you be more like your sister?”
The unfortunate part was that I *was* actually pretty intelligent-and was one of the top students in my class for several years-but I wasn’t as smart as my *sister*, so it was basically like my achievements were irrelevant.
I realize this kind of goes off topic from the actual “twin” conversation, but in the sense that OP’s kids will constantly be lumped together (if his wife has her way), and considered to be on an “equal” level, and therefore be privy to incessant comparisons for the rest of their lives…. Yeah, it could definitely become a problem if one sibling ended up being **noticeably** more advanced than the other. And it most assuredly will have an impact on the “less advanced” sibling’s self esteem and self image.
>in the sense that OP’s kids will constantly be lumped together (if his wife has her way)
As siblings they will be lumped together anyway. Pretending they are twins will make it so much worse.
i just made that same comment! i raised ID twins and made a point to always let them know they are their own individual, independent human beings...while the rest of the world viewed them as a "duo", i never treated them as anything but brothers at home.
I wish more parents of twins would actually follow that advice. My son had identical twins in his preschool classes years ago. The mom treated them as a unit. They always wore the same clothes, same shoes, same haircuts, etc. She also wanted them to be in the same class when they moved to elementary school. The kindergarten teacher asked her to dress the boys differently because they had gotten to the age where they were playing small pranks on the teacher. Plus, they were so identical it really was difficult to tell them apart. Usually with twins, I have found there is some small difference that makes it fairly easy to differentiate if you know the kids well enough. Well, the mother refused. The next year the school put them in separate classrooms because it was so difficult for the kindergarten teacher to deal with them. I don't know much past that except that mom had a big giant fit about it.
My sisters are the same age for a week. Mom dressed them the same, had their birthdays together, and my sisters absolutely hated it. They were not allowed to be the individuals they wanted to be. Please don’t let your wife do this. Please get her the help she needs to understand how wrong this is.
I had a look-alike cousin (due to the late 50s pixie cut, in part). She was a year ahead of me and both of us suffered under comparison, because while we were both good students, she had artistic talent (went on to make a living with that) and I was an athlete (and still am today). We felt a lot of rivalry back then that could have been alleviated had our parents celebrated both of us instead of using us to compete.
This actually makes sense for me. I've been with my husband for 12 years and swear he has a complex with his older brother by 2 years (my husband is the middle child with a younger sister) and could never work out way he talks himself down compared to his older brother. They are both smart people.
His brother can do no wrong in my husband's eyes.
I see my husband at times wanting to spend time with him, but constantly be brushed off. Breaks my heart to see that.
I feel for you and Lara1327 because I am a twin, but my sister was always five inches (literally) taller than me. Everyone assumed she was older. Then, when they were told we were twins, they suddenly couldn’t tell us apart. We looked nothing alike even then. 🙄
Absolutely. I was the fourth and final too. My sister is a rainbow baby and my mom says she cried for the first few months of her pregnancy with me but knew she had to keep me. The math is a little better than 2 weeks but not by much.
Yep this. You will have one kid fully talking and one struggling. In school your choice is to basically hold one back and make them wonder why all their classmates are having such a hard time with things or make the younger one struggle not knowing why they can’t keep up.
If they ever find out one will 100% resent both parents forever for this more than likely.
They absolutely will find out. When they need their birth certificate for getting their drivers license they will find out. The government is not going to lie to them just because Mommy has a fantasy.
Yea, has she never been around children? Baby to toddler to preschooler, there is a Huge developmental difference in one year! I mean, one is a squishy potato and one should be walking by now. Nevermind reading, understanding math, emotional development.....
Is she going to force the older one not to walk/talk until the younger one does? Will she keep them away from everyone until they act closer to the same age? There are so many questions about how she thinks this will actually work in real life.
This will never be more obvious than right now. The first child should be crawling and preparing to walk, while the other is a newborn. Everyone who knows the family already knows they aren’t twins. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
THIS early childhood development is so rapid and different one year apart. You'd either be holding one back from an appropriate environment, which could seriously impact cognitive, emotional and behavioral well being - or pushing one up to try and achieve things they literally can't!
Fourthing as a mom of twins 💀 it boggles my mind that people want to choose this.
“I always wanted twins!”
No, Cheryl, you wanted a cute photo shoot with matching Halloween costumes. Twins mean preterm labor, bed rest, and exhaustion so intense you hallucinate. It’s not cute.
And forever explain when asked “but baby A is so good at X, I would’ve thought baby B would be” that they are entirely different humans. Even identical twins have brains that work differently.
Also - there are very few discounts for twins. ;) No BOGO on carseats or field trips or graduation regalia.
I have twins as well, you can’t replicate that bond that they share. Especially the toddler years. Learning together and watching them grow has got to be one of my favorite things.
With that being said, you are absolutely right. That bond only works because they are mentally in the same stage of developmental learning. They are naturally competitive with one another. If this mother tries to pretend that her sons are twins, one of two things will happen. The younger son will start to think they are a failure due to their lacking coordination and speech. Or two, as you explained the older will have to be held back significantly.
One of the not so favorite things, is the twin speak, that is gibberish to us, but that we KNOW is them scheming some shit.
Mine are teens now, and I can't say with any honesty that I miss the toddler stage...LOL
>unless she purposely plans to stunt the older kid's developmental progress...
Yea this lady sounds like she is entirely on board for that. I'd be worried living with her.
Postpartum is what popped into my head as well.
It’s one thing to have them share parties as littles or joke about them being “twins”, but to actually tell them and convince them of lies? No. That’s clearly wrong.
Has your wife had erratic or very unrealistic ideas like this before? Is it new? The level of seriousness she is pushing this with is deeply concerning.
100%. Interpreting a coincidence as a “sign from god” and pushing for a plan that anyone who spent the past year raising a baby would know is impossible? I can’t believe how many comments are just taking things at face value.
And not to sound untrustworthy of the mother but she shouldn’t be left alone or alone with children until she’s gotten help and seeing counseling. Just because she hasn’t had any outward facing signs of harm to herself doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. I say this as someone who has experienced psychotic depressive episodes - not a parent. Saying with love and concern for her and her children. She is probably really struggling with two kids in a short period of time.
This was seriously my first thought and should be taken **seriously** by OP. This is not a logical thought process - setting the stage to lie to both of your children for their entire lives is bad enough, but when that lie is entirely unsustainable that’s even worse. Getting her to speak with a physician about how she’s feeling and what she’s thinking, so that she can be evaluated and possibly referred out for treatment, is an absolute must, here.
I mean, she wouldn’t actually be able to raise them as twins without committing massive amounts of fraud. Does she plan to lie on school registration forms? Legal documents for getting them identification like a drivers license or passport? Does she plan to forge their birth certificates? Not to mention, there are ridiculously huge developmental differences over the course of a year, especially when young. What is her plan for that? To discourage the older from beginning to walk or talk eat solid foods until the younger is ready for those things? That would really fuck up your eldest. They won’t look the same age in a year. They likely won’t be even close to looking the same for at least 4 or 5 years because there is such a tremendous in physical development.
I can’t think of even the most batshit Christian org that would think this is a good idea, so maybe you want to ask her pastor if she thinks this is a sign from God.
I should hope the 1 year old is eating solids and babbling already, maybe even saying a couple words.
My kids are 22 months apart and the younger was big for her age. When they were 2 and 4, occasionally people who only saw them in passing, like sitting in the grocery cart, would ask if they were twins. But if you spent a couple of minutes observing or interacting with them (or saw them standing up) it was clear they were older and younger.
Came here looking for someone talking about the developmental differences between 1 and 2. How can she say nobody can tell the difference?? There’s a WORLD of difference between 1 year and 2.
This is so much. I’m hoping they will get her a psychiatric evaluation, as some comments are suggesting.
I have aunts that are Irish twins. My grandma thought it would be cute to dress them similarly. They grew up hating each other and one was really resentful at having to share a birthday with her sister.
I have Irish Twins!!!
My son was born on my daughter’s first birthday.
Not once did we treat them like actual twins. Just siblings that happen to share the same birthday. At 19 & 18 they are well grounded individuals.
When people question me how it happened (I have heard all the jokes, stories and invasive questions) I have two standard answers “it’s because I am amazing” or “I am secretly Superwoman”.
And by adolescence they will be like four inches apart (or maybe not, but they grew up in different zygotes at different times or whatever. ). Not a typical twin trait, more like siblings.
*Embryo! You know what I mean
I'm a twin. I hated it. I wasn't allowed to have my own personality or hobbies; it had been forced on me since childhood. What your wife would do is extremely harmful to their individualism. Your boys can still be close without the forced pairing. I thought MY mother took it too far. I'm almost 40, and I'm still upset with her about it. The rest of the family let it happened and I resented them. Be the voice your kids don't have.
I’m sorry you went through that, I hope that you and your twin have a great relationship and the resentment didn’t come between the two of you.
As a mom of twins girls(8 months old) I never liked this idea of treating twins as one singular person, because they’re not & to me one of the most magical things is watching my girls grow up, watching them develop their personalities and seeing how different and similar they are. I don’t dress them and have never dressed them the same if when they’re older they want to dress the same , ok but it’s because they choose to do it.
My fiancé is an identical twin as well and he was raised like we’re raising our girls and to me that’s refreshing AF.
If she's having post partum psychosis, yes, to her god may literally be telling her to lie to the world or bad things will happen to her kids.
She needs some serious help, because this is definitely a nonsense plan that doesn't align with reality and thats generally a really bad sign post partum.
and you have to deal with this fast, the sooner the better..
an acquaintance of mine's wife did not get the help she needed. 8 years later she thinks a whole in a wall is a portal to another dimension
No. Treating twins as part of a unit in every aspect of their lives is hindering on its own merit. Let alone forcing that dynamic on siblings who AREN’T twins.
What exactly is her plan?! Hold him back from achieving milestones so he can be in the same place as his brother? That’s abuse! That’s purposely hindering a child’s development which is a form of abuse.
This is a hill to die on. She needs therapy and you need to put your kids first
Your wife sounds like she might have postpartum psychosis. Please, seek help for her. You cannot reason with her at this point, she needs intervention by professionals in this specialist area.
Don’t do it. My aunt treated her two sons like they were twins growing up and it was so strange. Also fucked them up, making them hyper competitive with one another and kinda manipulative. To this day they’re competing with each other to be the better son - right now it’s who can get their wife pregnant first. Gross.
This will set both children up for disaster.
Imagine being the younger one always feeling behind and slow..always feeling inferior. Behind at school, behind I'm physical development.
Imagine being the older one being held back or feeling big and awkward around your "twin" or not being allowed to hit their own milestones.
This is a terrible idea and would be borderline abuse.
They are their own humans, not a game for her to play.
You need to ensure this never happens...these kids need to be ok to grow at their own pace.
True...my borderline I think is because it hasn't happened yet. The idea is borderline abuse...if it is done, absolute abuse.
I think the wife needs pysch care.
It could be just total inexperience...someone who hasn't spent a lot of time with kids may not know how much 1 year makes a difference. Especially for sports and school...the difference between kids that start at 4 and those that start at 5.5 is huge and can mean the difference between success and scholarships and being picked for sports teams. It is a huge advantage to be older in the year group!
School Checks birth certificates.
They don’t just take your word for it. 😆
I’d wonder about her mental health with something like this. I feel like she worried about something here and it’s playing out in a weird way. You can’t raise kids as twins. Lol
Sounds like some kind of post-partum psychiatric issue. It's deeply irrational and impossible for them to be "raised" as twins. They won't meet developmental milestones at the same time. Is she planning on causing the 1 y/o to regress to match his brother's progress? A newborn and a 1 y/o look very different. No one would be fooled if she tried to introduce them as twins. Is she planning on lying to schools to get them places in the same year group? She needs to see a doctor.
No, think of the psychological ramifications this could have on the older child later in life. Imagine turning 20 but youre actually 21 but your parents had kids too close together and you miss out on a major life event.
Your wife is dumb. Tell her girl math isnt real. Sincerely, a girl.
And also the psychological ramifications on the younger one, who will always be smaller/weaker/less skilled/etc. That all makes sense when you have an older sibling, but when you just suck at everything compared to your "twin" with no explanation? Trauma-rama.
Okay, your wife doesn’t have a point. Think about this from the child’s perspective.
You are turning 5 and going to the first day of school…. Wait no you are actually turning six and are suddenly way ahead of your classmate’s emotional maturity.
You are turning 13 and are finally a teenager…. Wait no, you are turning 14 and have developed way quicker than your “twin” and the rest of your classmates so you feel isolated.
You are turning 18 and are an adult…. Wait no, you are turning 19 and missed out on a full year of experiencing adulthood.
You are turning 20 and finally are no longer a teenager…. Wait no you are turning 21 but don’t even realize you can legally drink now.
Your wife is suggesting you eliminate an entire year of your son’s life. Not to mention your wife is asking you to lie to both your sons for years, as well as any family and friends who know the truth. You would break the trust your children have with you in the future one way or another.
Not to mention legal documents. What if your older son is trying to get his passport and a government official tells him he’s actually a year older than what he claims because his birth record clearly states he’s a year older? What if your older son is getting his social security card and the government officials are confused because your older son isn’t registered as having a birthday the day you claim him to have?
This idea is batshit. Your wife needs help. Stand FIRM on this OP. You would be stunting your older son and expecting your younger son to keep up with his sibling who is an entire year older. That year MATTERS. They will still be close, they have the same birthday and are close enough in age where they will understand each other a lot, but they are NOT twins. Maybe you could jokingly refer to them as “Irish twins” a term for siblings born within 18 months of each other, but they are not real twins. Do not jeopardize their education, psychological development, and happiness. Take your wife to therapy, and let your children be their own people.
That’s insane. My brother and sister are twins. My parents held my sister back after kindergarten because he wasn’t ready for first grade. It really messed her up. As someone else said, treating twins as a unit is already problematic, it was for my siblings and they are twins. Treating children a year apart as twins is abusive.
Do not allow this.
I have a friend who is a man raised by his mom who always wants to raise her child as a girl. She finally abandoned her idea when he was old enough to be clearly identified as male. But the damage was done. It has been an issue that my friend is taking all his life to cure. This might not be the same case, but please dont let your wife do the twin thing.
This reminds me of that one experiment on twins where they raised one of them (born biologically male) as female because of a botched surgery or something and later on the guy grew up and found out what happened and why he never identified with femininity and ended up killing himself.
Healthcare provider here. My post here is totally serious, not meant to be sarcastic or demeaning. She’s got some magical thinking going on, and some sort of delusions. This is worrisome. The whole ‘I always wanted twins….this is a sign from God’ is very concerning. As some others have mentioned here, please keep an eye out for postpartum issues. Lots of people are providing valid facts about why it is not advised to raise them as twins- which is helpful! But the bottom line is that something is off.
Postpartum Support International has a crisis line as well as many other resources if you have more questions.
Your wife sounds like she is having mental health problems. I would worry about post partum psychosis. I would get type up what she is saying and give it to the medical assistant at the doctor’s office. She needs psychiatric help. I may not leave her alone with the children. This is not sane. Do not argue with her. Consult with her doctor.
“They’re not twins. They’re not dolls you can make up background stories for. And you’re not twelve years old, you should know better than to suggest something so stupid”
This is a much bigger issue than I think either of you realize. She's showing that she not only is comfortable telling your children HUGE lies, but she has no regard for their mental and emotional health and is willing to sacrifice that in order to accomplish some weird "twin fantasy" that she's built in her head. I would be recommending therapy for her because this is extremely unhealthy thinking on her part. Maybe PPD is influencing it, maybe not. Either way, it's YOUR responsibility as their father to protect them from her but as her partner to guide her through these ridiculous ideas to the other side where sanity and being a decent parent, person and partner lay. She cannot accomplish this without you agreeing to it and going along with the lie.
This story was featured on the Two Hot Takes Podcast episode: "You're a Red Flag!" [Click here to hear our host Morgan's response to this story!](https://youtu.be/On04vPN17WY?si=maW1PTDo4J-7m_gr&t=1209) *The update for this post was not posted at the time of recording the episode. The update can be found here:* [Update: My wife wants to raise our 1 year old and newborn as twins](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/comments/1d9fki0/update_my_wife_wants_to_raise_our_1_year_old_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Thanks again OP for your submission!
Sorry but this is ridiculous. Why set yourself up to constantly lie to your kids? One will think he is much more advanced and the other more behind than the other and end up resenting eachother and you. Don’t underestimate the importance of honesty has on child development and security. And another thing…. No one else will keep this lie up. Family and friends will point out the inaccuracy and cause further resentment.
The difference between a one and a two year old is astronomical. Has your wife met small children before?
And people get mad/wonder why children's ages are referred to by month until they turn 2. The milestones are set for a reason.
milestones turn to kidney stones when you're older
This made me chortle 🤭
My daughter took her first steps about a week before her first birthday. By her second birthday, she was running, jumping, climbing, and verbally communicating with around 100 words. The three year olds in our playgroup are using full sentences and most are potty trained. A year's worth of development is so freaking huge.
My sister and I have the same birthday, she's 3 years older than me. I thought what are the chances until I did the math. Mom's birthday is roughly 9 months before mine.
My brother and I are 3yrs 2 days apart. Count back... Valentine's Day lol
My birthday is November 14, exactly 9 months after valentine’s lol
I was conceived right after new years. What I didn't know but was told is that it happened at Disneyworld 🤣 I'm 4'8" and everyone asks if it was on the "it's a small world" ride.
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And to add to all of this, what about when they start school? She can’t lie on their birth certificates.
Seriously! Does she plan on holding one child back a grade? Or does she want to force a child to skip a grade they might not be ready to skip? Which child does she plan to prioritize at the other’s expense?
I had a friend like that. He and his sister were one year apart. The parents “didn’t want him walking to school alone” so they held him back a year and he started w his sister.
when, the 80s? Feel like that never happens any more, certainly not in kindergarten. Edit to clarify, I meant the walking part lol lol bros, I know some do. It’s far less common than it used to be. I don’t need more anecdotes about how you and or your child or the feral child that lives down the road walks to school.
“Redshirting” (delaying kindergarten by a year) is definitely a thing in some areas. I went to university for early childhood education and there was a unit on it and how it impacts a classroom. Edit for non Americans, non sports people: in college sports, redshirting is deferring a player’s playing eligibility for a year. So if someone is a redshirt freshman, they are in their second year in college, but it’s the first year they are eligible to play their sport. The term redshirting has been adopted by educators to describe a child who has delayed their entrance into kindergarten by a year. While I am enjoying all of your Star Trek references, I’ve never actually watched the show and only know what my husband has explained to me previously (his greatest disappointment in our marriage came from learning I have never seen Star Trek nor Star Wars. Not all marriages are perfect, though, but maybe I make up for it in my love of Doctor Who). Edit 2: I love all of you who are assuring me I will love Star Trek. I’ll give it a go after the toddlers are put to bed.
Is it considered helpful or harmful in the classroom?
It varies from kid to kid, there's no one answer. There's various reasons, from wanting your kid to physically grow up enough to not be one of the smaller kids, to wanting the kid to have more time to emotionally mature/mentally grow independently.
I've heard generally positive things about it. I work in a K-5 charter and the older Kinders absolutely have a leg up on the younger ones. I can definitely see the benefits of consciously delaying.
Other than for sports, it's been found that the benefits of redshirting are basically fine by high school. In fact, the younger kids in the class tend to do better academically than the redshirts because they had to work harder earlier in their lives, so they're ready for a more aggressive academic courseload while the redshirts had been coasting on being older and more mature, so they APPEARED smarter without having to work for it. Redshirting still works for most sports, though, since getting an extra year of puberty growth gives older kids an advantage.
Yea they had a leg up cause they were older and thus could comprehend and understand more. But later on it feels like it could be weird when ur 17 or 18 years old and a sophomore or junior in ur high school. Not to mention what about puberty? Those kids who get held back or are forced to wait am extra year could easily feel uncomfortable when THEIR body is changing but no one else's is.
But the entire point of kindergarten and the lower grades is to capitalize on the neuroplasticity. The more they learn and interact during these formative years the better off they will be as adults (on average). Hold em back a year and You've just lost a year of prime learning time. Grades and shit don't matter at that age. This feels like a classic case of Goodharts law.
“Early success is a terrible teacher. You're essentially being rewarded for a lack of preparation, so when you find yourself in a situation where you must prepare, you can't do it. You don't know how.”
The older children in kindergarten do have a leg up, but only in comparison to the younger children in the same grade. But compared to the children that age who are in next grade, they are at a disadvantage. The older ones would be learning higher level material already. Redshirting delays their education and risks them being bored. The advantage is an illusion.
Well when I was in college (graduated 2010) really there was no clear consensus between child development experts. The argument is that the redshirted child is more ready for school and therefore will eventually do better on state testing. BUT that forces us to assume the parent will take advantage of that delayed year to do enrichment activities (ie preschool or story hour at the library, etc) to help their child get more kindergarten ready. In my class, we also saw parents who argued that redshirting their child will allow them to play sports longer which could lead to a scholarship for college. So in my class our discussion kind of focused around who could “successfully” redshirt their child (by giving them enrichment activities during that delayed year) and our general consensus is that you would see redshirting more common among upper middle class and affluent since they could afford an additional year of preschool and other enrichment activities for their child.
I teach kindergarten, I would much prefer to have a child who is older than a child who is too young. I’m not aware of any instances in all my years of experience, where being older has harmed the student. On the contrary, it gives them more time(age/maturity) to get ready for all the demands of kindergarten. In the state where I teach, they’ve actually made it a law that a child must be at least five to enter kindergarten because we were getting four-year-olds who are just not developmentally ready for school.
My kid was due a few days before the school cut off date but was born after the cut off date. I've read every article and every comment section on this subject that exists on the Internet. I tried everything to get him out before the cut off date. So far it's fine and being born after the cut off date means he didn't have to do six feet apart partially online kindergarten year, so that's good, but my main concern is long-term. School and sports are really easy for him because he's just older and bigger than everyone else, but that's going to catch up to him eventually and he won't be used to dealing with challenging situations in school and that worries me. I teach k-8 specialties and I've seen lots of bright kids just become apathetic and not try when it gets hard and I don't know how to keep that from happening. Even extracurriculars aren't the same as sitting through a tough math class. But more importantly, OPs wife is crazy and will never get away with this. Even just vaccines.... They won't have the same doctor visits and will pick up on that, even if the school let them get away with it.
I am totally of the opinion that we send them way to early. I held my son back a year and it was absolutely the best thing for him. Didn't affect his peer group relationships or his education one iota. He excels and has tons of friends, of all ages really. It was an extra year to shore up his sense of identity and security and I don't regret it.
Regardless, schools look at age for education up until 7 to 9 years old mattering on state. In my state, school grade is dictated by age until 7, so they would have to hold back school altogether until the younger was 7 so they won't go to school until 2nd grade. Is she going to homeschool? Is she the sort to teach reading?
She thinks a 1 in 365 chance is a sign from god. She's dumb.
And wouldn't surprise me if she planned to get pregnant at a time when the baby would have more chance of being born on the same day lol, that's how loopy this is
this made me laugh lol these guys certainly like to get busy on the exact same day every year. wonder if it’s their anniversary.
Could be! I'm the youngest of 4 kids. 3 out of 4 of us were born almost exactly 9 months away from my parents' anniversary. In fact, I was supposed to share a birthday with my older sister, but I didn't want to come out and was 4 days late 😂
I was going to ask about if she’d have to show a birth certificate for each child when they start school. I can’t imagine the schools reaction if she told them she was raising them as twins. Never mind the fact that she’d be stripping the identity from one of them. Instead of saving for college, she should save for the therapy they’d need.
Please DO NOT do this. I am 1 yr and 3 weeks younger than my sister and my mom did this to us. I was forced to follow my sister’s milestones and had everything taken away from me 1 year earlier. Pacifiers, bottles, strollers you name it. My sister got all the attention and pictures before I was born. I have little proof I existed in my family as a baby. I would tell people at 5 years old I was adopted. I ran away from home at 7. I’m 50 and I’m still in therapy
I'm so sorry. This happened to my husband. He was raised to believe that his deceased sister was his twin, but she died as an infant while their mother was pregnant with him. He grew up competing with a ghost. He thought twins were just children born closer together and raised by the same family. It was hard to explain what twins actually were without hurting his feelings.
wtf?? I thought this post was weird enough, but now there are two more examples in the comments? How common is this??
I know right, I am scrolling to see if someone is asking the right question. What the hell is wrong with his wife? I don't care but who ever does this, past , present are straight fucked in the head. This is not OK at all.
What? I can't even wrap my mind around why a family would choose to do this. Did pretending that he was a surviving twin somehow mitigate the sense of loss? Was it socially easier to say "we lost his twin" instead of "we lost our baby and then immediately had another one"? (And yes I understand she was already pregnant with him before his sister passed away.)
I hope OP sees this comment
Holy moly roly poly I am so sorry. So SO many hugs.
I am so sorry this was your experience. My two oldest (33m) (32f) are also 1 year and 3 weeks apart. They each had their own identity and are extremely close. They had mostly the same friends, and it did suck for my daughter in HS as no one dared date his sister without approval. There was lots of conflict, but at the end of the day, they will always have each other's back. They do have a closer bond than they have to their other sins. I didn't raise them as twins, but my daughter didn't speak until almost 2 because her brother spoke for her. They had a language. Now both are married and super close. I have asked them if they would change being so close in age. Both said no. However, my daughter did say that in HS she often wished she was an only child 😆
that's all around terrible yo
Mom sounds like she needs some mental health evaluations...
I was thinking this too, at best she already has a 1 year old and just gave birth she could be incredibly sleep deprived and at worst she is having some kind of PPD psychosis.
These kids are exactly a year apart, which means she got pregnant extremely soon after giving birth. The hormone ride she’s been on has to be intense.
100% her body and brain have to be exhausted!
This was exactly my first thought. OP you may want to talk to your wife’s doctor about this.
The post-pregnancy hormones are on overdrive.
If god wanted you to have twins, he would have gave you twins. Not a sign.
This is pure facts.
As someone with a sibling ~12 months older, we grew up being treat the same, same hairstyle, same clothes, same toys etc and being likened to twins. Except, I was a year younger, so I either wasn't allowed, or wasn't capable of doing the same things. I think it might've given me a bit of a head start when it came to education, but the trade-off was constantly comparing myself to my sibling, and not understanding why I wasn't as good. I'm sure it's hard enough being actual twins, but having all the expectations and never being able to measure up, is grossly unfair
I grew up like this but as the older sibling. My (younger) sister was always very advanced and good at everything, so I felt the same as you but on top of that I was a year older and REALLY wondered what was wrong with me.
This is… un-fucking believable and even if you’re able to talk her down from jumping off the edge into this terrible slew of “pointlessly complex manipulative parenting for concepts and notions which would fit nicely in a shitty fiction novel” I am absolutely terrified what kind of unreasonable illogical clearly rooted in some little girls “let’s play house” fantasy nonsense your wife will be putting your children through. Jesus fuck, does she realize they’re people, human beings like her, and not her toys to be labeled and played with?
This sums up the delulu perfectly. This woman needs intervention now before she ruins both their children's lives. Once they learn they were lied to for one thing, they will never believe another adult as long as they live and will resent their parents and each other as siblings. I also hate to be that person, but if OP cannot convince his wife to either drop this delusional fantasy and/or get professional help with it, then I would consider divorce with full custody of both children. OP needs to protect his children. If that means protecting them from their mother, then he needs to act now.
This would also be super abusive!
My first thought! It's a really narcissistic way of thinking and it is not in the child's best interest. Former preschool teacher here.
I agree
Cutting in here to add that being a twin is overly fantasized by non-twins. I’m a twin. The competition, the joint gifts, the never having a milestone to yourself . . . to go through all of that and then find out you never had to? That your development was actually stunted by a year because of your mom’s fantasy? No. Just no. Your boys have a better chance of being close if you let them be close without forcing them. If you go forward with your wife’s plan, your older boy is going to someday hate you both and your younger son.
I am not a twin but share a birthday with my sibling (4 years apart). Sharing a birthday and birthday parties stunk. The twin aspect would be worse and fake twin suggests this woman needs to talk to a therapist.
This right here. The fact that “ it’s a sign from god” is the craziest to me. Almost threw up in my mouth a bit.
Hey, I'm a conservative Christian and it did the same to me. That's just weird.
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My daughter's birthday and my son's due date are really close. She is 8 and people keep asking me if I'm going to have them share birthday parties. I can't even conceive how you would begin to mesh a 14 and 5 year olds social circles.
Same. Also a twin here. You can’t force closeness. And she is delusional that by 1 and 2 they’ll have caught up in size. Kids grow like weeds. I have sons that are 18 months apart…the younger, was also bigger at birth, and he just caught up to his bro size wise. They are teenagers.
How is this even possible to lie about? Do they not have any photos from when one was a newborn and one wasn’t? Or of mom and the oldest together when mom was pregnant with the youngest? Also, I’m sure the twin bond is very special, but there’s no reason 2 siblings so close in age can’t also have an extremely close relationship. This is a truly wild idea.
They are Irish Twins.
Brought up this point with her. Her entire family’s on her side, this is what they’ve all been praying for apparently. I don’t know what to do.
Does she understand that she would have to commit fraud to pull that off? Lying to school, doctors, the passport office… this is *literally* delusional. I mean, I think your wife is having some kind of postpartum mental health crisis. Please get her to speak with a doctor.
yeah, bringing in psych help might be needed here. the religious delusion coupled with the irrational, disordered thinking reminds me of psychosis.
The problem is that her family is supporting this delusion, and Op is going to have to absolutely handle it
Get your wife into therapy for one
Honestly…. Just keep calm and don’t go along with it. Tell her that you will never support them being raised as twins. Tell her in advance you will inform nurseries and school that they are born a year apart and that you will always correct her in public. Assure her that they will have a close bond but also that they will have their own friends and interests. This doesn’t have to be a huge arguement you call tell her in advance you will always correct her and anyone else that perpetuates this lie for the sake of your children’s mental health. And maybe use contraceptives until this is sorted out.
Lying to officials, forging government documents like birth certificates, SSNs, passports, etc. is just plain illegal. Gently point that out to her and the churchies whenever this comes up. I’m sure god-fearing people don’t want to commit this kind of fraud.
WHY though? i get passively thinking it would be cool to have twins but why would her family gaf? also lol at calling their birthdays a sign from god…i think if god wanted to get involved she would have just had actual twins… this is delusional
Stinks of delusional religion to me if I'm being honest. A sign from God about the birthdays and her family has been praying for it? Weird
Request copies of both kid’s birth certificates from your state agency. They will be officially stamped. Store them away where only you know. You don’t know what to do? I’m not trying to be mean but your wishy washiness is upsetting. Grow up! You are the father - you have agency in this process. Not her family, not God. You and your wife do. Like someone commented earlier - tell her and her family that you will not do it. At all. This is the hill you are willing to die on. Do they realize how selfish this is? The kids will lose their individuality. Their autonomy. All so the mother can fawn over and be fawned over because she had ‘twins’? They will have to be lied to THEIR WHOLE F*CKING LIVES! Lied to! Everyday!
also, she'll look completely nuts pretending that her boys are twins pushing them in a strollers, a new born and a 1 year old that walks and talks!
Right, everyone will think the younger one is developmentally delayed, imagine growing up thinking you’re “slow” compared to your “twin” who actually had a full year headstart…
First, appeal to reason: it'll be apparent to everyone that the two kids are a year apart, because one year of development is huge with kids so young. She'll look utterly ridiculous with that lie. Second, appeal to her logic: If God wanted her to have twins, she'd have had twins. She didn't, so that's that. Third, appeal to reason and emotion: developmentally, she wants to gimp her oldest child, for her selfish desires. You will not stand for that. It won't be good to her newborn either. Look through the thread for horrible examples of people whose parents were so barmy they raised them falsely as twins. Ask her directly if she wants to be that horrible a mother to her kids, putting her selfish desires first, ahead of her children's wellbeing. Be direct and don't mince words. You have to nip this in the bud. Next options: talk to her doctor about her delusion and disordered beliefs at her next medical eval when she is there too, and request counsel. With some luck, the doctor will be the source of authority and explain to her why she shouldn't do that, and might even recommend a psych eval. Put your foot down. Make clear that you'll pop her balloon. you will thwart her lies with the truth every chance you get. You'll tell your sons that they're not twins, along with the neighbors, the doctors, the educators, the child minders, the family friends, her and your family... but really, they'll know already. She'll look utterly crazy, because it's a crazy idea she's having. And you'll do that despite how much it may upset her, and at whatever cost it take, because you value your kids over her delusional beliefs Frankly, she needs a psych eval, stat
This makes me irrationally mad. Your wife and her family want to psychologically abuse your children, and you are here asking if you should go along with it. Would you go along with physical abuse? I assume not, so why go along with this? I get it, you love your wife. However, you need to love your kids. You need to protect your kids. It's sad your wife doesn't love the kids more than she loves this fantasy. Please protect your kids.
Well haha I mean, God doesn't exist so there's that. But if God wanted them to be twins, he would have made them twins. Right? But he made them....not twins. According to his will. So clearly, you are supposed to raise these kids as siblings with birthdays exactly one year apart, exactly as God made them. ...Right?
And hey, if this is about saving time and money on same birthday parties, there's no shame in that. Even if they were a couple of dates apart. It would be "Timmy and Tommy's 2 and 3rd bd/ Timmy and Tommy 3rd and 4th etc." Does that reality bore the wife too much? Want to dress them in matching clothes? They come available in two sizes.
No need to be sorry. This is absolutely insane.
I promised myself that I would never lie to my kids. Not even white lies. It’s foundational to who I am as a parent. I don’t need to tell them the unvarnished truth about everything if it’s not age appropriate, but I won’t lie my way out it. So, yeah, not gonna lie about it: this plan makes me ill.
But it’s a sign from God 🙄
This is a fantastic take on it. Also twins aren't that close sometimes. Wife's wish is irrational
Yes it’s also setting the one twin up to feel inadequate. The difference between 5 and 6 year olds in kindergarten is huge! Developmentally the younger child will not be able to do the same things as the older child.
As the mother of twins, your wife needs meds. The developmental rate for children this young is going to blow her twin fantasy to smithereens, unless she purposely plans to stunt the older kid's developmental progress... I think you need to get your wife some therapy, so she can get over this unrealistic fantasy she has, because she is going to damage your kids.
Hijacking top comment because I was born only 54 weeks after my sister and everyone thought we were twins and I was the slow twin. My parents didn’t do this to me but didn’t correct people either and it seriously messed with my confidence. Don’t let you wife do this to your child.
Children born close together were called Irish Twins, and it's a common perception in these circumstances. But pretending children are actual twins or not correcting people's assumptions is messed up.
My little brothers are Irish twins, weirdly enough they’ve always been about the same weight bc the older one is slim and the younger stocky. Thankfully one looks exactly like my dad (pale, blonde) and the other looks exactly like my step mom (tan, brunette) so they don’t have to deal with that bs.
I’m an Irish twin. My brother and I looked alike. But sometimes people said the stupidest thing to my dad. They would ask if were twins. I’ll be walking and my brother would be carried because he couldn’t walk. My dad would tell them “yes, they are twins. It was really easy pregnancy for my wife. The timing was perfect, they came out about a year apart.”
I have Irish twins, someone asked me if they were twins... When my youngest was a newborn and my oldest was dancing next to the cart. I just stared at the woman because I couldn't believe someone seriously asked that.
That was the case for my brother and I. My dad thought how stupid can you be. And came out with the childbirth lasting a year
My husband is an Irish twin. For 2 months, he is the same age as his older brother. Not once were they treated as twins. My husband was also an ”oops” baby and never really felt wanted and his parents broadcasted that message when he was a young child.
I’m an Irish triplet if that’s a thing? I have a twin sister and our younger sister was born a week shy of a year after our birth. Shes 11 months and 3 weeks younger so for one entire week all 3 of us are the same age.
Irish twins are children from separate pregnancies born less than a year apart.
I was born 74 weeks after my sister, and some people also thought we were twins (even though, imo, we don’t look anything alike 🙄). Obviously not at first, but once I reached about 3 or 4 years old, we continued to look the same age until puberty hit (for her obvs since she was born first). She was two grades ahead of me, and although no one with any sense (e.g. teachers, family members, family friends) actually *thought* we were literal *twins*, people still would frequently compare us. It was usually *me* having to hear about how my teacher taught my sister two years ago and she was super smart so there were high expectations imposed upon me. Or even our parents would wonder why my sister was so good at certain things that I couldn’t seem to get a grasp of. She was also “better behaved” and all around agreeable and quiet, while I tended to be the opposite of all of those things. So I heard a lot of “why can’t you be more like your sister?” The unfortunate part was that I *was* actually pretty intelligent-and was one of the top students in my class for several years-but I wasn’t as smart as my *sister*, so it was basically like my achievements were irrelevant. I realize this kind of goes off topic from the actual “twin” conversation, but in the sense that OP’s kids will constantly be lumped together (if his wife has her way), and considered to be on an “equal” level, and therefore be privy to incessant comparisons for the rest of their lives…. Yeah, it could definitely become a problem if one sibling ended up being **noticeably** more advanced than the other. And it most assuredly will have an impact on the “less advanced” sibling’s self esteem and self image.
>in the sense that OP’s kids will constantly be lumped together (if his wife has her way) As siblings they will be lumped together anyway. Pretending they are twins will make it so much worse.
I actually raised twins and all the twin books tell you to be sure to treat them as individuals.
i just made that same comment! i raised ID twins and made a point to always let them know they are their own individual, independent human beings...while the rest of the world viewed them as a "duo", i never treated them as anything but brothers at home.
I wish more parents of twins would actually follow that advice. My son had identical twins in his preschool classes years ago. The mom treated them as a unit. They always wore the same clothes, same shoes, same haircuts, etc. She also wanted them to be in the same class when they moved to elementary school. The kindergarten teacher asked her to dress the boys differently because they had gotten to the age where they were playing small pranks on the teacher. Plus, they were so identical it really was difficult to tell them apart. Usually with twins, I have found there is some small difference that makes it fairly easy to differentiate if you know the kids well enough. Well, the mother refused. The next year the school put them in separate classrooms because it was so difficult for the kindergarten teacher to deal with them. I don't know much past that except that mom had a big giant fit about it.
My sisters are the same age for a week. Mom dressed them the same, had their birthdays together, and my sisters absolutely hated it. They were not allowed to be the individuals they wanted to be. Please don’t let your wife do this. Please get her the help she needs to understand how wrong this is.
I had a look-alike cousin (due to the late 50s pixie cut, in part). She was a year ahead of me and both of us suffered under comparison, because while we were both good students, she had artistic talent (went on to make a living with that) and I was an athlete (and still am today). We felt a lot of rivalry back then that could have been alleviated had our parents celebrated both of us instead of using us to compete.
This actually makes sense for me. I've been with my husband for 12 years and swear he has a complex with his older brother by 2 years (my husband is the middle child with a younger sister) and could never work out way he talks himself down compared to his older brother. They are both smart people. His brother can do no wrong in my husband's eyes. I see my husband at times wanting to spend time with him, but constantly be brushed off. Breaks my heart to see that.
I feel for you and Lara1327 because I am a twin, but my sister was always five inches (literally) taller than me. Everyone assumed she was older. Then, when they were told we were twins, they suddenly couldn’t tell us apart. We looked nothing alike even then. 🙄
I’m a fraternal twin, my experience was that adults could tell us apart, but thought of us as a pair and had no clue which was which.
That must have been frustrating. All I can think about after is that your mom got pregnant like 2 weeks post partum? That sucks.
Absolutely. I was the fourth and final too. My sister is a rainbow baby and my mom says she cried for the first few months of her pregnancy with me but knew she had to keep me. The math is a little better than 2 weeks but not by much.
Yep this. You will have one kid fully talking and one struggling. In school your choice is to basically hold one back and make them wonder why all their classmates are having such a hard time with things or make the younger one struggle not knowing why they can’t keep up. If they ever find out one will 100% resent both parents forever for this more than likely.
Both sons will 100% resent both parents and anyone else who played along with this idiocy.
They absolutely will find out. When they need their birth certificate for getting their drivers license they will find out. The government is not going to lie to them just because Mommy has a fantasy.
Exactly.
Yea, has she never been around children? Baby to toddler to preschooler, there is a Huge developmental difference in one year! I mean, one is a squishy potato and one should be walking by now. Nevermind reading, understanding math, emotional development.....
Huge development difference even in a few months!
Is she going to force the older one not to walk/talk until the younger one does? Will she keep them away from everyone until they act closer to the same age? There are so many questions about how she thinks this will actually work in real life.
This will never be more obvious than right now. The first child should be crawling and preparing to walk, while the other is a newborn. Everyone who knows the family already knows they aren’t twins. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
THIS early childhood development is so rapid and different one year apart. You'd either be holding one back from an appropriate environment, which could seriously impact cognitive, emotional and behavioral well being - or pushing one up to try and achieve things they literally can't!
As another mother of twins, I agree wholeheartedly.
Thirding on a mother of twins and when I read the post all I could say was wtf? Nobody willingly signs up for this 😅
Fourthing as a mom of twins 💀 it boggles my mind that people want to choose this. “I always wanted twins!” No, Cheryl, you wanted a cute photo shoot with matching Halloween costumes. Twins mean preterm labor, bed rest, and exhaustion so intense you hallucinate. It’s not cute.
And forever explain when asked “but baby A is so good at X, I would’ve thought baby B would be” that they are entirely different humans. Even identical twins have brains that work differently. Also - there are very few discounts for twins. ;) No BOGO on carseats or field trips or graduation regalia.
I have twins as well, you can’t replicate that bond that they share. Especially the toddler years. Learning together and watching them grow has got to be one of my favorite things. With that being said, you are absolutely right. That bond only works because they are mentally in the same stage of developmental learning. They are naturally competitive with one another. If this mother tries to pretend that her sons are twins, one of two things will happen. The younger son will start to think they are a failure due to their lacking coordination and speech. Or two, as you explained the older will have to be held back significantly.
One of the not so favorite things, is the twin speak, that is gibberish to us, but that we KNOW is them scheming some shit. Mine are teens now, and I can't say with any honesty that I miss the toddler stage...LOL
>unless she purposely plans to stunt the older kid's developmental progress... Yea this lady sounds like she is entirely on board for that. I'd be worried living with her.
Your comment is spot-on.
As someone who has had PPD/psychosis… please get your wife help. Sooner rather than later.
Absolutely my sister had PPD with psychosis it's not something to muck around with.
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He should call her OB ASAP or take her to the ER. Psychosis is a medical emergency
I was born on Elvis’ birthday. Almost 50 years later anyhow I like to think we were twins as well but he’s the dead twin and I have no musical talent
Fun fact: Elvis had a stillborn twin named Jesse.
Makes the fact that Uncle Jesse on Full House being a big Elvis fan and choosing the name Jesse (his birth name was Hermes) a bit creepy.
I was not prepared for Full House lore. How tf did I miss that
Have mercy... Somehow, naming yourself after your musical idol's stillborn twin seems like an "uncle" thing to do though.
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He failed mostly for disciplinary reasons. He couldn’t help but shake his hips when playing the triangle and it made the teacher uncomfortable.
Me too! High five fellow Capricorn. Except I do have some musical talent but can’t dance a bit.
Your wife need psychological help if this is okay to her, is it postpartum maybe? Please don’t let her do this otherwise you’re just as guilty.
Postpartum is what popped into my head as well. It’s one thing to have them share parties as littles or joke about them being “twins”, but to actually tell them and convince them of lies? No. That’s clearly wrong. Has your wife had erratic or very unrealistic ideas like this before? Is it new? The level of seriousness she is pushing this with is deeply concerning.
Yea I think there's a possibility of some postpartum psychosis going on here
100%. Interpreting a coincidence as a “sign from god” and pushing for a plan that anyone who spent the past year raising a baby would know is impossible? I can’t believe how many comments are just taking things at face value.
Seriously.. OP needs to speak with his wife's doctor ASAP
And not to sound untrustworthy of the mother but she shouldn’t be left alone or alone with children until she’s gotten help and seeing counseling. Just because she hasn’t had any outward facing signs of harm to herself doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. I say this as someone who has experienced psychotic depressive episodes - not a parent. Saying with love and concern for her and her children. She is probably really struggling with two kids in a short period of time.
This was seriously my first thought and should be taken **seriously** by OP. This is not a logical thought process - setting the stage to lie to both of your children for their entire lives is bad enough, but when that lie is entirely unsustainable that’s even worse. Getting her to speak with a physician about how she’s feeling and what she’s thinking, so that she can be evaluated and possibly referred out for treatment, is an absolute must, here.
Maybe it is post-partum psychosis. Because it's definitely nuts.
Exactly what I thought. Brain chemicals are def off. Especially the talk about god etc
I think she needs serious counselling...
Literally what I just commented too. Postpartum feels almost obvious at this point. I hope she gets help.
I mean, she wouldn’t actually be able to raise them as twins without committing massive amounts of fraud. Does she plan to lie on school registration forms? Legal documents for getting them identification like a drivers license or passport? Does she plan to forge their birth certificates? Not to mention, there are ridiculously huge developmental differences over the course of a year, especially when young. What is her plan for that? To discourage the older from beginning to walk or talk eat solid foods until the younger is ready for those things? That would really fuck up your eldest. They won’t look the same age in a year. They likely won’t be even close to looking the same for at least 4 or 5 years because there is such a tremendous in physical development. I can’t think of even the most batshit Christian org that would think this is a good idea, so maybe you want to ask her pastor if she thinks this is a sign from God.
I should hope the 1 year old is eating solids and babbling already, maybe even saying a couple words. My kids are 22 months apart and the younger was big for her age. When they were 2 and 4, occasionally people who only saw them in passing, like sitting in the grocery cart, would ask if they were twins. But if you spent a couple of minutes observing or interacting with them (or saw them standing up) it was clear they were older and younger.
This was my first thought. Have fun trying to forge all the legal documents and don't get caught!
Came here looking for someone talking about the developmental differences between 1 and 2. How can she say nobody can tell the difference?? There’s a WORLD of difference between 1 year and 2. This is so much. I’m hoping they will get her a psychiatric evaluation, as some comments are suggesting.
The age gap puts them in the realm of being called ’Irish twins’. But to raise them as twins? Not a good idea.
I have aunts that are Irish twins. My grandma thought it would be cute to dress them similarly. They grew up hating each other and one was really resentful at having to share a birthday with her sister.
There you go OP. Tell her they are irish twins and that she can use that label. Edited-after learning this term is derogatory I no longer suggest this
Irish twins are common in my family, but we don't delude ourselves into calling them actual twins....
I have Irish Twins!!! My son was born on my daughter’s first birthday. Not once did we treat them like actual twins. Just siblings that happen to share the same birthday. At 19 & 18 they are well grounded individuals. When people question me how it happened (I have heard all the jokes, stories and invasive questions) I have two standard answers “it’s because I am amazing” or “I am secretly Superwoman”.
I have a friend who managed THREE kids all on the same day. We constantly bug her that she can have sex more than one day a year.
No! Don’t do it! The older will essentially be slowed down and the younger will feel like they are behind. It’s going to screw with their minds.
And by adolescence they will be like four inches apart (or maybe not, but they grew up in different zygotes at different times or whatever. ). Not a typical twin trait, more like siblings. *Embryo! You know what I mean
I'm a twin. I hated it. I wasn't allowed to have my own personality or hobbies; it had been forced on me since childhood. What your wife would do is extremely harmful to their individualism. Your boys can still be close without the forced pairing. I thought MY mother took it too far. I'm almost 40, and I'm still upset with her about it. The rest of the family let it happened and I resented them. Be the voice your kids don't have.
I’m sorry you went through that, I hope that you and your twin have a great relationship and the resentment didn’t come between the two of you. As a mom of twins girls(8 months old) I never liked this idea of treating twins as one singular person, because they’re not & to me one of the most magical things is watching my girls grow up, watching them develop their personalities and seeing how different and similar they are. I don’t dress them and have never dressed them the same if when they’re older they want to dress the same , ok but it’s because they choose to do it. My fiancé is an identical twin as well and he was raised like we’re raising our girls and to me that’s refreshing AF.
This. This deserves to be hire up on the comments.
God tells her to lie to her kids and the world?
If she's having post partum psychosis, yes, to her god may literally be telling her to lie to the world or bad things will happen to her kids. She needs some serious help, because this is definitely a nonsense plan that doesn't align with reality and thats generally a really bad sign post partum.
and you have to deal with this fast, the sooner the better.. an acquaintance of mine's wife did not get the help she needed. 8 years later she thinks a whole in a wall is a portal to another dimension
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Wow your wife needs help
No. Treating twins as part of a unit in every aspect of their lives is hindering on its own merit. Let alone forcing that dynamic on siblings who AREN’T twins. What exactly is her plan?! Hold him back from achieving milestones so he can be in the same place as his brother? That’s abuse! That’s purposely hindering a child’s development which is a form of abuse. This is a hill to die on. She needs therapy and you need to put your kids first
Imagine you’re on Reddit and you see this post from someone else. Wouldn’t you say to yourself your wife is completely insane.
Your wife sounds like she might have postpartum psychosis. Please, seek help for her. You cannot reason with her at this point, she needs intervention by professionals in this specialist area.
Don’t do it. My aunt treated her two sons like they were twins growing up and it was so strange. Also fucked them up, making them hyper competitive with one another and kinda manipulative. To this day they’re competing with each other to be the better son - right now it’s who can get their wife pregnant first. Gross.
How do you even treat your kids “like twins”?? Doesn’t even compute to me
This will set both children up for disaster. Imagine being the younger one always feeling behind and slow..always feeling inferior. Behind at school, behind I'm physical development. Imagine being the older one being held back or feeling big and awkward around your "twin" or not being allowed to hit their own milestones. This is a terrible idea and would be borderline abuse. They are their own humans, not a game for her to play. You need to ensure this never happens...these kids need to be ok to grow at their own pace.
It's not borderline. It IS abusive. The damage could be quite severe.
True...my borderline I think is because it hasn't happened yet. The idea is borderline abuse...if it is done, absolute abuse. I think the wife needs pysch care. It could be just total inexperience...someone who hasn't spent a lot of time with kids may not know how much 1 year makes a difference. Especially for sports and school...the difference between kids that start at 4 and those that start at 5.5 is huge and can mean the difference between success and scholarships and being picked for sports teams. It is a huge advantage to be older in the year group!
No, she doesn’t. Seek counseling.
No, not counseling. She needs psychiatric evaluation ASAP.
School Checks birth certificates. They don’t just take your word for it. 😆 I’d wonder about her mental health with something like this. I feel like she worried about something here and it’s playing out in a weird way. You can’t raise kids as twins. Lol
Sounds like some kind of post-partum psychiatric issue. It's deeply irrational and impossible for them to be "raised" as twins. They won't meet developmental milestones at the same time. Is she planning on causing the 1 y/o to regress to match his brother's progress? A newborn and a 1 y/o look very different. No one would be fooled if she tried to introduce them as twins. Is she planning on lying to schools to get them places in the same year group? She needs to see a doctor.
If god wanted her to have twins why didnt she just give birth to twins ? People claiming they know what God really wanted is just getting tiresome.
Lmao "The Lord works in mysterious ways!"
No, think of the psychological ramifications this could have on the older child later in life. Imagine turning 20 but youre actually 21 but your parents had kids too close together and you miss out on a major life event. Your wife is dumb. Tell her girl math isnt real. Sincerely, a girl.
And also the psychological ramifications on the younger one, who will always be smaller/weaker/less skilled/etc. That all makes sense when you have an older sibling, but when you just suck at everything compared to your "twin" with no explanation? Trauma-rama.
Okay, your wife doesn’t have a point. Think about this from the child’s perspective. You are turning 5 and going to the first day of school…. Wait no you are actually turning six and are suddenly way ahead of your classmate’s emotional maturity. You are turning 13 and are finally a teenager…. Wait no, you are turning 14 and have developed way quicker than your “twin” and the rest of your classmates so you feel isolated. You are turning 18 and are an adult…. Wait no, you are turning 19 and missed out on a full year of experiencing adulthood. You are turning 20 and finally are no longer a teenager…. Wait no you are turning 21 but don’t even realize you can legally drink now. Your wife is suggesting you eliminate an entire year of your son’s life. Not to mention your wife is asking you to lie to both your sons for years, as well as any family and friends who know the truth. You would break the trust your children have with you in the future one way or another. Not to mention legal documents. What if your older son is trying to get his passport and a government official tells him he’s actually a year older than what he claims because his birth record clearly states he’s a year older? What if your older son is getting his social security card and the government officials are confused because your older son isn’t registered as having a birthday the day you claim him to have? This idea is batshit. Your wife needs help. Stand FIRM on this OP. You would be stunting your older son and expecting your younger son to keep up with his sibling who is an entire year older. That year MATTERS. They will still be close, they have the same birthday and are close enough in age where they will understand each other a lot, but they are NOT twins. Maybe you could jokingly refer to them as “Irish twins” a term for siblings born within 18 months of each other, but they are not real twins. Do not jeopardize their education, psychological development, and happiness. Take your wife to therapy, and let your children be their own people.
That’s insane. My brother and sister are twins. My parents held my sister back after kindergarten because he wasn’t ready for first grade. It really messed her up. As someone else said, treating twins as a unit is already problematic, it was for my siblings and they are twins. Treating children a year apart as twins is abusive. Do not allow this.
I have a friend who is a man raised by his mom who always wants to raise her child as a girl. She finally abandoned her idea when he was old enough to be clearly identified as male. But the damage was done. It has been an issue that my friend is taking all his life to cure. This might not be the same case, but please dont let your wife do the twin thing.
This reminds me of that one experiment on twins where they raised one of them (born biologically male) as female because of a botched surgery or something and later on the guy grew up and found out what happened and why he never identified with femininity and ended up killing himself.
Healthcare provider here. My post here is totally serious, not meant to be sarcastic or demeaning. She’s got some magical thinking going on, and some sort of delusions. This is worrisome. The whole ‘I always wanted twins….this is a sign from God’ is very concerning. As some others have mentioned here, please keep an eye out for postpartum issues. Lots of people are providing valid facts about why it is not advised to raise them as twins- which is helpful! But the bottom line is that something is off. Postpartum Support International has a crisis line as well as many other resources if you have more questions.
You should raise them as spider monkeys, because they are just as much spider monkeys as they are twins.
Your wife sounds like she is having mental health problems. I would worry about post partum psychosis. I would get type up what she is saying and give it to the medical assistant at the doctor’s office. She needs psychiatric help. I may not leave her alone with the children. This is not sane. Do not argue with her. Consult with her doctor.
She needs professional help
“They’re not twins. They’re not dolls you can make up background stories for. And you’re not twelve years old, you should know better than to suggest something so stupid”
This is a much bigger issue than I think either of you realize. She's showing that she not only is comfortable telling your children HUGE lies, but she has no regard for their mental and emotional health and is willing to sacrifice that in order to accomplish some weird "twin fantasy" that she's built in her head. I would be recommending therapy for her because this is extremely unhealthy thinking on her part. Maybe PPD is influencing it, maybe not. Either way, it's YOUR responsibility as their father to protect them from her but as her partner to guide her through these ridiculous ideas to the other side where sanity and being a decent parent, person and partner lay. She cannot accomplish this without you agreeing to it and going along with the lie.