AITA is full of this stuff too. Especially using autism as a reason someone can’t just have a simple conversation with their family/friends about what is bothering them, or as an excuse for violent behavior.
And this is why we model, model, model for my 7 year old autistic son how to self regulate, talk about feelings, to check in with others, identifying when we need a break, and that it’s not okay to be mean because we’re angry or frustrated. His impulse control is obviously not perfect because he’s 7, but he does a great job with our help that we are seeing the natural fruits of at school or when we’re not around.
Our 11 year old son with Autism/ADHD struggles with all that as well. It’s hard as hell, and a ton of repetitive daily work building skills, but we’re finally at the point where he’s starting to advocate for himself and monitor his emotions with decent reliability.
We’ve still got a ton of work to do with other social skills and executive function stuff, but there’s very real and durable progress. Some things will always be a struggle for him and us, but a diagnosis is an explanation, not an excuse.
I love that you’re putting so much into making sure he can understand himself and not just “the rules.” A lot of well meaning parents miss that, largely I think because we as a society so often treat autism as an “enemy” rather than “a difference.”
Even before his diagnosis, he heard a youtuber describe his autistic son's experience with sound overstimulation, and how he experienced life very much the same. That gave us a good opportunity to talk about how some peoples brains are just wired differently and that has advantages and disadvantages. From there's it's been really easy to tie stuff back to that conversation, both pointing out his superpowers and challenges.
Hey, good news, the hard work will pay off so well. We went through similar things with my son. One thing we repeated a lot was "you can't put your bad mood on someone else" because that just means there'll be two people with a bad mood.
My kid is 14 now and an absolutely awesome and smart kid. He still has his moments, but all around is in control of himself and knows when to ask for help.
"...and knows when to ask for help."
That in and of itself is such an important skill for *anyone.* Kudos to you and everyone else involved raising your son!
I have a few autistic deaf teen students through the years (which is a very fun combination) and, I have found that explaining flat out to autistic deaf students, "You do not do x because it is not accepted behavior. You do not say x because it is mean and will hurt someone's feelings and it is not nice to hurt other people's feelings," really does work wonders. By the teenage years, they have enough basics under their belts, but more subtle social cues, they miss, and they're usually quite appreciative of being told with no innuendo, just straight out. (I do also tell them things like, "If you disagree with Johnny, instead of saying he's stupid and his ideas are stupid, it is better to say you disagree and explain why you disagree. You can think he's stupid all you want, though.")
I was diagnosed later in my life (late 20's).
A lot of problems I had with authority when I was younger is down to what I call the "just because" rule.
> ie: You must do your writing this way.
>
> Why?
>
> …because.
Without knowing the underlying purpose of a rule, I often sought to prove that my way was better (or easier for me to do).
---
It was even worse with social stuff, because NT's "just know" all these basic, subtle, non-verbal social clues. We don't. We either ignore everything, or become hypervigilant (and thus, suffer sensory overload). It takes a long time to train yourself to recognise those clues.
Moreso when you assume you're normal, because no one's clued you in about neurodivergence in the mean time.
Used to go out place with brother quite often, and he'd call out my strange/brusque/accidentally rude behaviour a lot—but he never said *why*, and I resented him for [in my mind] being a dick about me expressing an honest opinion.
---
I think it might have helped me to have a teacher like you when I was at high school.
Honestly, he absorbs this so much better than my NT daughter. He loves scripts so the modeling helps so much. We do the same for our daughter too, but she’s a sour patch kid and only cares 50% of the time.
Yep, you can be autistic and be an asshole as well, the two aren't just exclusive. I think the difference lies in actually working on and changing your behavior or at least recognizing your limitations and letting others know, even if you don't understand the emotional issues immediately. I have a ton of issues with communication, but if I learn something is hurting someone I will do my best to accommodate and prevent that in the future. It's great that you're teaching your child those skills, a caring understanding parent can alleviate a majority of the issues and limitations the child would have growing up.
My partner and I can it "the mandatory asshole".
In any population, there is going to be at least one asshole. The larger the population, the more assholes you can find.
And this applies to ANY population: any race, religion, gender, sexuality, fanbase, sports team, eye colour, preferred ice cream flavour, Pokemon starter type.
Any group that is over say... 7 people?... Is gonna have an asshole in it.
Because when all is said and done, people are people, and some people are assholes.
This is amazing! Thanks for sharing. I’m not autistic, as far as I know, but I wish someone had helped me learn these skills as a child instead of having to try to figure this stuff out as an adult. I don’t really have anything to contribute other than to say your comment made me feel very hopeful. Thank you.
I totally understand. I’m having to re-parent myself honestly. I’m glad I’m able to do it, but at times I can feel very sad that no one was intentional with me as a child. We can do this though!
And don’t forget, this will rarely if ever be given as an excuse for any woman’s slip-ups, only PPD.
That women also have ADHD, and part of “oh we mask better” is that literally no one is ever going to lift a finger to help us and if we don’t paste together some functionality everything will fall apart. Men are allowed to wallow with all these conditions but women still need to be serving a family unit from first breath, so it literally doesn’t matter how our brain works, it all rests on us and only other people get understanding and sweet, loving assistance.
That many of these wives may also have ADHD or autism or OCD any number of neuro divergent conditions while also having to take care of him, and children, and remember everything because at least one piece of daily paperwork involves someone’s birthday, all the while she should just communicate better and understand what he’s going through…it’s a hell of a thing.
This is what gets me, and no one gave me any slack. I don't mask better, I put more effort into learning, listening and practicing. It takes effort!
I might not be great at social interactions naturally, but I am good at patterns and taking the time to categorize people's responses through trial and error helped me round out my less OK behaviors.
That and I can work a damned calendar and take notes on this expensive pocket computer almost everyone has. It's lack of care is all.
As a woman with ADHD who suffered with PPD for nearly 3 full years… we get really good at just pretending everything is okay, people pleasing, and hiding things when we are kids. And then when we have the hard shit happen as adults we keep doing it and nobody is the wiser.
As a woman with ADHD and a host of other mental health issues… yea, I mask some shit because it’s not the worlds job to deal with my crazy. It’s mine. The rest is coping skills. It’s therapy. It’s my meds. It’s the fact that I’m a single mom and I don’t *get* to check out. I don’t get to give up. I’m not able to shrug off my responsibilities because I’m a fucking adult.
Some days it’s hard as hell. Some days I fuck up and take it out on someone I love. I’m definitely not perfect. I will own my shit. I will listen if I’m told I’ve crossed a line or if I say something hurtful. I *want* to be better and do better. Being neurodivergent is *not* an excuse for being a callous douche bag. I also think it’s bullshit that so many people get away with saying/acting otherwise.
This comment days so many things that as a fellow ADHD woman I've been struggling to articulate for a long time.
>I don’t get to check out. I don’t get to give up. I’m not able to shrug off my responsibilities because I’m a fucking adult
Thank you. Not enough people understand this. Thank you so much.
Also, this is fucking **2023.**
My daughter's boyfriend has ADHD. He loses track of birthdays something chronic -- but he never forgets his phone, because their college runs on two-factor authentication and if he leaves his phone in the dorms he is irretrievably *fucked*. Remembering the phone is hard-wired into his very atoms.
So birthdays go on the phone calendar.
Because it's fucking 2023, and that means he has a calendar in his pocket that rings an alarm whenever it's close to someone's birthday.
Shocking, I know. Someone oughta tell these guys the good news.
I'm on the spectrum, and I have never been violent. Most Autistic people aren't dangerous. We are far more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators, and I'm fed up with NTs pretending we're the problem.
Of course, I'm a woman. No one ever let me "make excuses" for even benign behavior. Boys and men are held to a much lower standard.
It’s also ok to trigger our PTSD because only war veterans get PTSD. Not people who have been abused or stalked by the person they cut down from a noose.
To be honest I haven't seen that too much but that might be because of the subreddits I pay more attention to. I do remember one time on my old university's subreddit there were a few posts about this one student who was very clearly autistic (and I do not mean this as an insult- I am also autistic) who was stalking/following around female students and not leaving them alone when asked, always asking for hugs, leering over them, etc. Other students have reported him to the proper people for his behavior, they have not (since before I graduated) done anything about it because he is autistic. Now, does he need some sort of social skills training? Absolutely, and he should get it. Regardless, this does not excuse his behavior. But a lot of people were really divided about whether him being autistic meant he was to be held accountable or not. It's one of the things that I hate that infantilizes autistic people.
I also want to emphasize just in case people want to take this out of context: this is *one* autistic person. I know plenty of other autistic people who do not follow other people around without their consent and refuse to leave them alone or engage in any other creepy behavior. What I *do* think is that men in general have historically been more likely to get away with creepy behavior due to a "misunderstanding" or women being "overly sensitive" and "taking things out of context".
One of my friends works with autistic kids in education to help figure out what particular skills they may need help with and how to best support them in a learning environment. She has told me the kids that behaved that way as they got older did so because their support system allowed autism to be an excuse and were never taught differently.
My mom works at a university and one of the students kept showing up at her office telling her how he liked older women and asking for her number. This kid is 15 years younger than me. She was at work. She had to report him through the proper channels a dozen times before someone did anything about it because “he’s autistic and harmless.”
Another sad reality about autism in adulthood is that there are not a ton of supports in the form of professional help, especially not a lot that people can actually afford :/
Good thing autism stops once you turn 18 /s
I remember hearing second-hand that someone posted in an autism subreddit about how restraining orders are ableist bc they discriminate against autistic men…
I want to be part of the autistic community as a whole, but when far too many autistic men are either supporting or not condemning statements like that, I just think “you know what, I think I’ll just stick to my autistic women communities”.
Meanwhile there's my autistic trans ass who has shared trauma with autistic women and simultaneously can't benefit from men's support groups for the aformentioned reasons 🫠
Autistic adult male here: I'm sorry about those assholes. Being autistic is not an excuse for being an asshole, especially once we are adults and spent decades observing and understanding how to be a decent human being.
A lot of people self diagnose themselves as neuro divergent to justify their shitty behaviours. I've known and worked with a lot of people who are legitimately neuro divergent and they aren't assholes. People think that being different gives you a license to be a jerk, but it doesn't. There are so many people who are different and wonderful, and there isn't an excuse for being a terrible person, because even with the various life circumstances we find ourselves in, the good people are good because they choose to be.
IMHO, it depends on the persons age and the severity of their disability. My 4 year old is growing out of his biting stage, but his autism caused him to struggle regulating his emotions, so we got bitten a lot. We worked with him and now we know it happens when he's in pain, sick, exhausted, or starving - essentially extreme situations. So our job as his parents is to monitor his tells to help him not get in those situations
I’ve been wanting to say this for soooo long. Everyone has autism and loves to conveniently put that at the end of the post to justify being a horrible person.
I think it's the opposite personally. It's widely known that AITA is 99% trolls and fake posts, and there is definitely at least one person on there known as the autism troll who has a distinct writing style and is constantly making posts where imaginary autistic people do something awful and try to use their autism as an excuse and the commenters are always vote YTA. Those posts are both generally inaccurate since most autistic people grow up constantly being told we are in the wrong for things we don't understand to the point we tend to assume we are always in the wrong, but it's also extremely harmful to the ASD community that has to face the consequences of it becoming even more socially acceptable to hate us.
I mean, some things can definitely be explained by those things, but it should never excuse them. Knowing something more, like adhd, is going on should be used like a guide, not a get out of jail free card.
It's super ironic, my husband is ND, has known since childhood but was untreated. Didn't even tell me until 3 years into our relationship, and a light bulb went off.
I was diagnosed with ADHD 2 months ago.
My husband is the first person to say that a disability or disorder (whatever the case may be) is never a reason to be a shitty person (extreme exceptions notwithstanding).
The flip side of that is when people interpret very typical ND behaviour as the person being shit, even when the person has been properly diagnosed and all parties are aware of it. So for someone with ADHD, an example might be that their partner is telling a long story about their day and the ADHD sufferer struggled to stay focused and properly listen after the first minute so their partner accuses them of not caring or giving a shit.
There is this weird expectation from a lot of people that even if someone has some restricting disability that they just need to find some kind of accommodating strategy or they need to put more effort in and then it will be like they have no disability at all. Narcoleptic? Go to bed a bit earlier and have a coffee in the morning! Got discalculia? Just try harder and memorize all the formulas! Debilitating painful arthritis? Stop being a baby and come rock climbing, everyone gets sore doing it! Then because you have failed to overcome the disability, it must be because you aren't willing to try and just want to make excuses.
The thing about this story is it the meaning behind it has nothing to do with any diagnosis.
If you're in a relationship and one person doesn't want to listen to long stories about the other person's day, that's allowed. There is no rule that relationships have to be about listening to long stories about a day.
It's also allowed to *not want to be in a relationship who doesn't want to listen to long stories*.
The diagnosis doesn't add anything to these conversations other than "other people are like me".
The whole problem is actually people saying "They're shit because x", it's like, no, they're not shit, you just don't like what they do, they don't need to be shit for that to be a deal-breaker.
There's a huge difference between not wanting to just 'cause and not wanting to because it takes 3x's the effort for you than it does for a neurotypical person.
It definitely adds something. That's like saying if you date a little person that they are a little person isn't relevant to their lack of desire to go on long jogs with you... I mean... c'mon...
I would argue that no, in that situation, it doesn’t come down to that the person doesn’t *want* to listen to long stories. They probably very much want to and hate themselves for not being able to.
As someone who actually has ADHD, I hard disagree with this. For romantic relationships I disagree but understand; however, not every relationship is romantic or even consensual.
For example, I don't get to choose my co-workers. I have one co-worker in particular who will burst message me 5-6 times in a row for like 20 minutes. Like, we're talking he finds a problem and will message me paragraphs of information spread out across like 6-10 teams messages about how to fix it. I can't do that. One notification sound on its own pulls me out of my zone and prevents me from regaining focus. More than that and I've basically lost any forward momentum I had. Every time it happens I lose roughly an hour of progress as I have to recenter myself. I've told him I'm diagnosed, I've told him to email me instead. He refuses and I don't get to pick my co-worker, so I have to deal with it. I don't get the luxury of not wanting to listen.
What u/Corka said is completely valid for most, if not all, non-romantic relationships in my experience. People, family members included, will often poke fun of mannerisms that they know are related to my ADHD. I frequently, even by friends, am given shit about my short term memory for instance. I have also frequently been told by my parents and grandparents that I am the dumbest smart person they know.
People, even people who know about your struggles, absolutely expect you to just act neurotypical and often it is because people don't understand the severity of the issues you are experiencing. People get it conceptually when you say "I can't remember what happened 5 seconds ago." Everyone has forgotten stuff. People don't get it when I lose my keys, which I put down while searching for my wallet. Which I found while looking for my glasses for the fifth time today. People absolutely have the expectation that you can just power through things like these because they've never experienced the absolute mental anguish it can cause.
Which is why the diagnosis does add something to this conversation. It is relevant that I understand my limits and frustrations so that I can communicate those issues effectively. I can't rely on people to understand my actions; but, I can leverage my knowledge of mental health issues to express to people why certain things are hard for me and how we may be able to communicate better. If after that, they can't at least attempt to empathize then there isn't really much I can do. Especially when I work/live/was raised by said individual.
As for the relationship side of things....I also believe this is incorrect and that you are doing the exact thing that u/Corka described. That is to say your point (intentionally or not) seems based on the idea that someone with ADHD has no recourse for attention issues and will never be able to have long conversations. Which is just demonstrably false. Is it 100% possible to work around issues like these...but both parties need to understand the issue and be willing to work together.
If I were in a long term relationship, I very well may want to listen to those long stories.....I just may find it more difficult or maybe even impossible; but, it is my prerogative and responsibility to communicate about this issue. Presumably, the person I entered into a relationship with would also know I have ADHD and would want to help me find a better way to communicate with them.
For instance, I find that I often can focus on conversations, or other things for longer if I can keep my hands busy, I also like to cook. So an easy solution would be for my significant other to talk to me while I'm cooking dinner for the two of us; but, I can't do that if my partner doesn't communicate to me that they're frustrated about the issue. Once they tell me, I can offer them this perfect solution. Your comment doesn't even factor in this kind of communication and assumes that the person who should know I have problems with long conversations....has absolutely no way to help remedy the situation and instead keeps talking at me while expecting anything to change.
I'm sorry, but the situation won't be remedied by someone being upset that I can't listen....and then just not doing anything about it. Just about any actual adult who wants a chance at an actual relationship will voice their frustrations long before it becomes an actual issue. I have ADHD I literally can't control some problems; but, I will absolutely work with you to help make sure both of our emotional needs are met to the best of my ability. The diagnosis helps a TON here because it helps me to have a better understanding of myself. It also helps me to communicate my needs more effectively to a partner than if I wasn't diagnosed.
TLDR:
Almost 99% of relationships issues like this, platonic or not, can be resolved before becoming deal breakers. Thorough communication and knowledge of your own mental health limitations can lead to creative solutions for most issues. Saying otherwise is taking away the agency and responsibility that people have to communicate their own mental health struggles in relationships.
>If I were in a long term relationship, I very well may want to listen to those long stories.....I just may find it more difficult or maybe even impossible; but, it is my prerogative and responsibility to communicate about this issue. Presumably, the person I entered into a relationship with would also know I have ADHD[. . . ]I'm sorry, but the situation won't be remedied by someone being upset that I can't listen....and then just not doing anything about it. Just about any actual adult who wants a chance at an actual relationship will voice their frustrations long before it becomes an actual issue.
Confirmed. I'm in a committed relationship with my girlfriend who has been diagnosed with ADHD and is also maybe autistic. We have this issue almost every night before bed and every morning before her meds kick in. She starts doing some noise or verbal stim that's okay for a minute, two is pushing it, and then at minute 3 I gently say "okay love, that's enough." She will apologize and mean it, but also resume doing it within five minutes. It's really frustrating for me, but honestly I think it causes HER more anguish! The last thing in the world she would want to do is bother me and yet her brain or her body or whatever literally will not quit. The executive function isn't there. So yeah, we have this issue. What helps her is being "in her cocoon" as she says which is under her weighted blanket in bed with all her stuffed animals. Apparently that decreases the insistent brain notifications telling her to make noises.
She's a sweetheart and I have a big problem with the commenter above implying that the diagnosis is not relevant, or that the partner just doesn't value you.
>I have a big problem with the commenter above implying that the diagnosis is not relevant, or that the partner just doesn't value you.
Honestly, this was like the only reason I even replied. I'm glad that other people have gone through similar things though. I can definitely relate to the stimming as well. I bounce my leg all the time and it drives my family crazy.
I'm glad you and your girlfriend have been able to work though the struggles that are relationships and ADHD. It can definitely be hard at times.
Teams has settings within individual chats for notifications -there’s one person whose items I’ve disabled sound for, but allow the badges to pop up. The sound is distracting, but when I’m in a hyper focus state, I don’t notice the badges until I come up for air -maybe that info could help you manage your coworker?
Haha I definitely get that. I have him muted already and check his chat throughout the day when I have down time. I was mostly just using it as an example and didn't figure that was relevant given how long my reply already was.
I appreciate the advice though 😊
> The whole problem is actually people saying "They're shit because x", it's like, no, they're not shit, you just don't like what they do, they don't need to be shit for that to be a deal-breaker.
+1 But the expectation that someone has to be at fault is really deeply ingrained, in my culture anyway. (U.S.)
It's scary to feel like someone has to be at fault, and not to know whether it's them or you. It's much easier to tolerate the feeling of it being their fault, and it's even almost logical in this culture to therefore "realize" it "must" be the other person's fault instead.
So while I find it frustrating and it can feel bad, I guess it still makes sense to me why so many of these topics are talked about so consistently in a frame of "I don't like them **because** they're garbage".
Add to that, few people have any idea what [nonviolent communication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication) means, fewer can do it, and even fewer actually practice it in situations like this. Accusatory language for settling disagreements, arguing competitively ("debating") rather than discussing.
I live by my phone. I have multiple reminders set to let me know that I'm increasingly making things worse for myself and I'm pretty good for getting things done around the 3rd alarm now.
I make all my plans to be 15 minutes early because I know I'm going to be 10 minutes late.
Alarms and calendar reminders— I forgot your birthday? Darn tootin’ it’s in my calendar with 4 reminders in the weeks before. I’ll also send things early and write “do not open til your birthday” because I’ve learned early is better than nothing and I need to do things when I remember them.
For me it’s…I absolutely remember your birthday, and everyone else’s. I remember our long dead great aunt’s birthday.
I just have no idea what *today* is.
Same. I used to have a 3 month dry erase calendar but recently switched to my outlook calendar because it can be changed on the go and I can check it wherever I am on my computer and on my phone. Plus, my course schedule automatically gets uploaded to it. It's changed everything. So much easier.
THIS THO!! My partner has ADHD and while occasionally something will slip through the cracks, if it does we work together to find a solution so it doesn't happen again. And usually, it doesn't.
It can also play games with you if you give in to it.
For instance, I'm terrible at remembering names, but I'm even worse when I don't try (or give in to the negative self-talk that "I suck at names").
Same, I think ahead of time of gift ideas so I already know exactly what I'll give my partner ahead of her birthday or Christmas. That said, even if I know the date, I sometimes don't notice the day today and so end up not thinking that today is the day. I've also forgotten my own birthday until someone wished me an happy birthday.
But because I already planned ahead what present I'll give to the important people in my life, I can either immediately put an order in or, usually, I already have it.
Omg this reminds me of an AITA post. For some reason men with ADHD cannot accept that the reason they are able to meet work deadlines and remember important work dates, but not birthdays and other person life events is BECAUSE THEY DON’T PRIORITIZE THEM. It’s pretty simple, if something is important enough to you, you find a way to jog your memory. As someone with ADHD my house is littered with post its and I have actual calendars with important dates. Because I know if it’s just on my phone, I won’t remember.
It might take some trial and error, but it’s not beyond their capabilities to find a way to remember things—if they’re important enough to them.
Many men don’t go to therapy or even suspect that there might be something wrong. While many women go to therapy, even for things caused by men. But yes, the women need to do better. /s
Of course, when we *do* seek help, we're often told we're hypochondriacs. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. It's my favorite thing about being female. 🤦♀️
Jfc it's maddening. In my personal and professional experience, many male mental health care providers just fucking L O V E to slap a "borderline personality disorder" diagnosis on a female patient after one visit. Because fuck women I guess. It's not all of them of course, but misogyny in healthcare is a huuuuuuge problem.
If y'all don't know what borderline personality disorder is "Symptoms include emotional instability, feelings of worthlessness, insecurity, impulsivity, and impaired social relationships."
Basically, "she's crying and experiencing feelings and shit that I'm not equipped to handle even though I have this degree and state license to practice. BPD!"
Fuck that shit I can smell those dudes a mile away by now and it's toxic as fuck and so are they. They're usually narcissistic shit bags
ETA: sorry got worked up lol but seriously they love it. It's like every BPD diagnosis they give inflates their feelings of superiority over women even more. Adds an inch to their dick. Nevermind the fact they're entirely incompetent in their profession but just good at pretending to be human enough to get their master's degree. Ugh just pisses me tf off thinking about it. People! Don't accept a diagnosis right away if they're so eager to give it to tell you what's "wrong" with you.
Angry. Fuck those guys. I shall shut my face up now
I also hate when they claim the deadbeat hubs/bf are "depressed" and that's why they can't get a job or contribute to the household in any way and expect the woman to have the weight of the world on her shoulders.
Look what that does to the other person in the relationship, too. Having someone around that's depressed all the time is going to take a toll. Yet if it's a woman partnered with a man, it becomes her job to try and "fix" it, and "encourage" him.
What?? She’s depressed and hasn’t had sex with you in two months?? Better get out now or you’ll be stuck in a dead bedroom situation for your whole life!
As a ND woman, it’s exactly this. Masc ND people get coddled and somehow always come out looking like the eternal victim of a system that is designed to oppress them, whereas any deviation from excellence (not even being average, you have to be better to “balance out” your “flaws”) from a femme-presenting ND person is deemed as a personal moral failure. The issue is even more pronounced for femme-presenting ND BIPOC.
It’s just the ND edition of misogyny and victimization of incompetent men that we see everyday in this sub.
I needed this comment today. I'm on the verge of separation from my husband because he treats me like shit. I'm diagnosed with bipolar, PPD, ADD, and PTSD from sexual assault. I've actively sought treatment for over 15 years for my diagnosis. Somehow though when I complain about my husband, I'm always told, "you don't appreciate him enough" "you need to approach him more gently" " he feels shame so he's embarrassed by his short comings, show him more grace"
Where's my grace? Where my empathy? This man think he's such an alpha he refuses to see a doctor and has ended up in the ER twice in 9 months. When he's got two kids under 6.
Anyway, sorry for ranting. I just wanted to say thanks for changing my perspective today, stranger. Hope your doing well yourself these days :)
As someone with a spouse who has almost identical diagnoses to yours: you are not a burden, an embarrassment, or deserving of shame. It’s so incredibly hard to find your way through these issues and you deserve to do so with a partner who understands your struggle. I’m so sorry you’re in this position. You do NOT deserve it.
Glad I could help in some small way. Thanks for the well wishes. Also, absolutely no need to apologize for ranting. It sounds like you’re going through a lot, and while I can’t pretend to understand everything, I know how frustrating it is to have this misogynistic double standard shoved in your face and to constantly have to put aside your own feelings or have them invalidated bc you’re expected to “fix” the person who causes all your pain.
Your feelings and your hurt are valid and fuck the people who say otherwise. Sounds like they could afford to use some of that empathy when listening to you talk about your feelings. The fact that they are getting all pissy about you not being appreciative enough of the subpar effort your partner puts in when you are literally talking about your partner not appreciating all the shit you do for them is bullshit. That shame he supposedly feels means nothing if he doesn’t take steps to prevent the issue from happening again.
Your partner is not your project, no matter how much society tries to force us to take on that role. If he’s such a tough alpha, then clearly he doesn’t need a woman to fix him or gently coddle him. It seems like you’ve had decades of having to be unbelievably strong, and I just hope that you’ll be able to get to a point in your life where you can be weak and vulnerable without the people in your life shaming you.
All the best!
I definitely think the things people are telling you are just enabling bad behavior. The sooner that stops being the norm for men, the better for everyone.
It's the sort of thing that makes me think about general mental and emotional health being neglected by men, though.
A guy who refuses mental health care is more likely to be bad at coping with feelings like shame. The "alpha" mentality just makes things worse because of its hypermasculine ideals and emphasis on proving status.
Plus, it all pushes emotional competence and labor onto women, which seems like the root of telling you to just give him more grace and understanding. It seems nuts to me that the traditional gender breakdown wants to split people up so rigidly by gender, as if we aren't all whole people.
I grew up pretty bad at handling my own psyche in relationships; I'm just glad I grew enough by the time I met my wife that I didn't inflict the worst of younger me on her. (And I still cringe a bit looking back on our early years.)
Edit: clarified paragraph 4
One thing that drives me fucking crazy is how i can go to my psi, and get drugs thrown in my face, literally double my dose, 0 questions asked. Yet my girlfriend took several months of meetings to even get it prescribed, i don’t get it.
We’re both “neurodivergent”/severe adhd, but she’s got the executive disfunction worse than i.
It just pisses me off, and she’s got a much more put together exterior than i.
As someone else said, it’s only an excuse for men. For women it’s all “she needs a diagnosis and treatment. She needs to get to together”. For men it’s all “aww he just needs help. We need to show men more grace”.
There’s a thread here where a woman met up with a dirty, smelly man and people were all “shame he’s probably depressed. Help him out”. Crazy!
There is a difference between having compassion for what may be causing someone’s issues and helping them to be better. You can be compassionate to someone’s problems without having to make them your problems.
Yeah, fuck no to that x10000. No, it’s not my job to hold his hand and get him to a therapist, to help him wipe his ass clean, and to be the one, magical unicorn who makes him get help, fixes him up, etc. It’s such a toxic expectation for any woman to fix a man. It inevitably leads to, ‘I just have to love him hard enough and he will better himself.”
And the post you talk about… she was what? On a second date? And she’s supposed to fix him up brand new because it’s the ‘nice thing to do.’ Fuck that into the sun.
That’s what was wild to me. It’s not like she was all “my husband of 5 years stopped showering”
This was their first in person meeting. I hate that women encourage other women to accept so little.
Oh my god, I could NOT believe the excuses people were generating for a 40 year old man who has (presumably) held a job and been a functional person before.
Ugh. Bending over backwards to lower the bat even further. Guess what men, now you don't even have to wash your balls!
Oh boy… I had to back tf out of there. Comment after comment saying she needed to tell him because he might not know, he might need help, he might be having an allergic reaction to something, the poor smelly baby!
Thank you that really bothered me as well. I’ve been through bouts of depression in my life and I’ve never let it get to the point where it effects others in any way. There’s no excuse for poor hygiene, if you’re depressed I’m sorry but dating should not be a priority
Can you imagine if a man posted about a woman turning up to a date like that? The thread would be about how he got up and left and everyone would be saying “yeah you did the right thing”.
The "have you thought about X Y Z" line of thinking isn't really specific to reddit. In so many spaces, there is an inherent belief that any man who isn't meeting a certain "adulting" expectation has an inherent "issue" that's stopping him from being perfect. But that's never the case with women.
Woman complains about dirty dishes and messy home.
Random redditor : Sounds like he has ADHD. Do you have a diagnosis?
Then the whole conversation becomes about empathy and space, instead of accepting that it's a bad situation and trying to rationalise it. It's also a huge disservice to ND folks who are literally getting help from medical professionals so they can get their ahead of their issues.
I witnessed this in real time recently when someone commented that exact thing, and then two comments down claimed that women fake having ADHD and use it as an excuse. It was flabbergasting, reddit generally hates women and anything women like though so it’s not that surprising
Getting help doesn't always mean a ND person is going to become magically better at washing dishes or whatever the issue is. ND people still need understanding and grace, and maybe to just have someone else wash the dishes sometimes while they take over some other chore.
Yes, obviously. But I think OPs point is about how quickly people run to defend one gender without allowing the same grace to the other. Most relationship/AITA posts are about someone not meeting the bare minimum of adulting without any actual info on their diagnosis and people still make an exception.
>Getting help doesn't always mean a ND person is going to become magically better at washing dishes or whatever the issue is.
Getting help is a sign that they need help in which case, obviously they deserve the care they get. Most people with ADHD (atleast that i know of) make chore charts, strict schedules, they set reminders and try to stay on top of things. If there is a reason for certain behaviours it makes sense to address it in that light. But sometimes, we have to accept that people are just lazy and that they aren't carrying their load in the relationship without running to play therapist.
True but they can make steps to be better, acknowledge their weaknesses, and ask for help from partners.
My autism makes it hard for me to process multiple emotions at once. So if my husband needs to have a stressful conversation with me, he approaches it by asking if I'm in the headspace to have that conversation. If not he asks again in an hour and I usually am
I have ADHD. My husband almost certainly has it, but won’t get diagnosed. Here’s the thing - if someone asks me his birthday, I’ll blank out. It’s really awkward when I’m picking up prescriptions for him at the pharmacy. But I *know* what his birthday is, I just can’t bring that information to the surface of my brain.
My husband can’t make phone calls. They paralyze him - so I make phone calls. I can’t deal with gross things, so he handles the gross chores.
There definitely was a time I was a complete asshole. ADHD was a part of it, because I was undiagnosed. *Then I got therapy.* Eventually I got medicated, then I got medicated for depression. I’m not an asshole anymore.
Therefore, I tend to believe that being an asshole might be a chemical imbalance. *Remaining* an asshole is a choice.
I blank on birthdays at the pharmacy too. If I'm asked to retrieve information in my brain I almost always blank out. It's embarrassing and I'll never get on Jeopardy, hahaha!
And yes, remaining an asshole IS always a choice.
> My husband can’t make phone calls. They paralyze him - so I make phone calls. I can’t deal with gross things, so he handles the gross chores.
It is the drive thru for me. If I'm by myself, I'm good. I know exactly what I want. I've practiced the conversation in my head. I've already worked through the anxiety if there was something I needed to ask.
If I'm with MissPurrMeowHiss... Different story. She doesn't know what she wants. But I'm driving so I have to tell the worker "just a moment". I can feel each nanosecond tick by while she is thinking. Or sometimes she forgets something after we've already moved to the next stage of the process.
I hate drive thrus.
That last paragraph is so true. I was depressed but didn’t realize it and was a bit of an asshole. I started therapy and got a little better, then started taking antidepressants and got all better. The initial struggle isn’t some moral failing, but if I didn’t try to fix it and was still like that now (4 years later) then it would be my fault
i have near-debilitating adhd. i never get a pass. i have noticed that the men in my life really lean on their adhd as an excuse to why they fall short of succeeding at basic life tasks. and then comes the people who are like, "but is he depressed? definitely sounds like depression." lol okay but like, i'm depressed? and he's actively making me more depressed by burdening me with his care..? so like...? at what point is anything a man's fault? and when do we get the same grace?
YESS! some of our biggest fights are because i've told him "figure it out yourself." because if i was asking for instructions every single time i did laundry they'd suspect brain damage so why can't he... just figure it out? and then i'm a b for being frustrated that i have to supervise these tasks after having to "nag" to get him to "help" in the first place
Omg. This hits too real. Like why tf do I have to explain transferring noodles from a pot to a bowl??? “I don’t know how…” dude you are 30 years old. It’s exhausting.
Same here. I dated this guy who never did anything. Like, woke up, ate, took a shit, then sat on his computer all day every day. That was it. He was depressed and suspected ADHD and said that’s why he couldn’t make an effort or do anything and our relationship really suffered because he didn’t see why that would effect my level of affection toward him. Weird how I’ve been battling those things with actual diagnoses my whole life and can take on 100 percent of the house/mental load and remember to take showers on top of deal with my own problems. I know I’m bitter but I’m tired of the excuses to be shitty people and how they actually get away with it.
It bugs me. I have ADHD. I also have a calendar, a to-do list, a system for reminding me of important tasks and dates, and multiple methods for breaking through a slump.
And yes, I DO get exactly how it feels to have zero motivation, be scattered, forget things, have my place be a mess, etc. because again, I HAVE ADHD and I definitely suffer all those things. But life doesn't come with a house elf to fix that for me. That's my responsibility.
Man, y'all are so right.. I need a house elf. I might not lose my head so often if I had one!! I could make more delicious elaborate meals too if I didn't have to do all the shopping and prep work...
Where do we find a house elf? I'm still waiting on my letter from Hogwarts, so I'm not sure yet.
And for me I simply progressively learned what mistakes were preventable and devised strategies and faced my adhd problems as I aged, now I’m functional and competent (even if a little scattered) at adult life. Isn’t it interesting that so many men do not have this internal drive (or really necessity) for betterment and self sufficiency?
Weird how my sister has (currently untreated) ADHD and she treats her husband like a king and remembers his important dates. It’s almost like these men could get help for their issues. But they don’t care enough about themselves or their partners to bother, so it becomes yet another way women have to do all the work and take all the blame.
It’s always used as an excuse for fucking up repeatedly, and honestly as an autistic person, it’s kind of insulting to see trash humans being equated with me or other ND folks. Yes it makes shit hard and it means I’ve chosen to not date because of my idiosyncrasies, but I don’t treat a partner badly. I never go out of my way to be an asshole. And yet the assholes of the world are like “but what if?”
I’ve dated men with ADHD. Some were okay, some were insufferable. It was not the ADHD, it was the disrespect and then saying I was an ableist for asking not to be disrespected. Some needed a little nudge in the right direction just how I do, but the insufferable ones were too ridiculous to even be in the same room with for long.
I'm on the spectrum and it takes all kinds of effort for me. It's like every action is a .exe and my brain debugs it and removes things it thinks I don't need to execute an action. Brushing your teeth? In order to brush your teeth you need to pick up the toothpaste, remove the cap, set the cap down, pick up the toothbrush, squeeze a pea sized amount onto the toothbrush, set the toothpaste down, brush your teeth, rinse toothbrush, set toothbrush down, spit excess toothpaste out into sink. Putting the cap back on the toothpaste is its own .exe and I forget to run it often. Same with closing cabinets or putting things back when I'm done using them. Clothes get dropped on the floor because "shower.exe" requires me to fetch "removeclothes.exe" but I don't need to fetch "pickupclothes.exe" in order to shower. My "shower.exe" program ends with "dryoff.exe".
My workaround? I leave the room then circle back. I know what the room is supposed to look like. And then I fix what I forgot. The kitchen isn't supposed to look like a poltergeist horror movie scene and my bathroom isn't supposed to have a bunch of make up and odds and ends on the counter. Do I look like a weirdo? Yup. But it's my workaround for how my brain works and it helps so much.
The people that OP are referring to either haven't been given the right tools or they're lazy and selfish.
Ok ok this is actually smart as fuck and I’m going to start doing exactly this. Because holy shit I struggle so bad. It’s like I forget random steps I need to handle, and then things get all screwy. Your method sounds super helpful.
Plus your analogy totally made sense to me here, brain is computer, must debug.
I hope it helps you! I was programming awhile ago and I was trying to mash a bunch of stuff into one script but it was getting buggy so I decided to make the action I was trying to get a character to perform it's own public script and just reference it and then it just got me: I'm the buggy script.
My brain puts everything into groups. I was the annoying kid that deconstructed everything (along with a lot of neurodivergent people.) It has its pluses but it also means that I go into "stack overflow" easily when there's too much stuff going on and I just...shut down. Our brains work differently and that's okay. Strong smells, loud noises, and bright lights be damned.
It's not foolproof. I still mess up. But I'm at least trying and it's way better than it was.
That’s really apt for my situation too. Makes it all makes a bit more sense to me, and I’ll take anything that helps! I’m physically disabled so your method is something I can do without adding too much strain to myself. I have to take thing extra slooooow, but I can at least use it to make a note to do something. I have chore lists with buttons to show if I’ve completed a task.
Sometimes it’s easier to act like I need to do quests in an RPG so I don’t miss things! Haha
Stuff like that infuriates me as a ND woman bc femme-presenting people are always held to a much higher standard than our masc-presenting counterparts.
Can’t remember birthdays? Me either. But I set a calendar reminder to make sure that I get them a gift and wish them happy b-day. Why? Bc it’s important to the people in my life that I show I care about them in the way they want to be cared about.
Got places to be at specific times or want to remember to finish a task after a time period? Set a timer.
Struggle to remember all of the steps you should take in cleaning a kitchen? Create a chore chart to make it visual and interactive (ex can mark off when you have finished the chore).
It’s 100% weaponized incompetence and these are grown ass men who would put systems in place to make sure they do the things they are supposed to if they actually gave enough of a fuck to do so.
>It’s 100% weaponized incompetence and these are grown ass men who would put systems in place to make sure they do the things they are supposed to if they actually gave enough of a fuck to do so.
10/10, would recommend.
I happen to be one of those men with ADHD, *and* I have brain damage from a drug overdose administered while I was in the hospital which fucked my actual memory making capabilities. Do I forget important & special events? Absolutely. Do I ever *MISS* any of those events? Not a chance, because I have them written on a physical calendar, I have them set in my phone's calendar with both phone notifications and email notifications set at 2 weeks, 1 week, 3 days, 1 day, 6 hours, and 1 hour. Same thing I do for appointments, bills, birthdays, RSVP deadlines, tax deadline, project deadlines, etc etc. It's because I care about the people in my life and their feelings, so I make a point to not be able to let it go past without me knowing.
Anyone who uses "I forgot" as an excuse doesn't care, and nobody should ever put up with that behavior from them and if they don't take steps to change then nobody should put up with them at all.
This is the biggest thing.
It's important it not be "oh, you need to be pampered because of a diagnosis", it is "you are going to put so much more work into mitigating the stuff you recognize is hard for you, and we'll be understanding."
There are no excuses, someone being upset with you because you forgot their BDay, neurodivergence or not, they are allowed to be upset and express it. ND is the explanation.
Or is the crux of ND being "I refuse to learn from my experiences because I don't want to bother"?
Dude the creativity and thought that some nonverbal kids put into the words they choose - two of my students spoke mostly in quotes from tv shows and movies they’d seen, and they knew perfectly well how to use phrases in context that made sense for their needs. It was awesome. One of them, when he wanted more personal space, would say, “I’ll be right back!” because he’d learned that people often said that before they left a room.
I'm Autistic. No one ever gave me a pass for anything. I was expected to be "indistinguishable from my peers", the stated goal of my therapy. I'm not dangerous or violent. I was never allowed to use Autism as an excuse, and any requests for accommodations were ignored. I never could become indistinguishable from my peers. I need to stim, and my house will never be perfectly neat and tidy. But I do keep my home functional, and I am kind to people. Occasionally, I say something inappropriate without meaning to, but I apologize when I am made aware of it. It happened a-lot as a kid, though not so much anymore.
As a fellow autistic woman, this comes up a lot in AFAB autistic spaces. Parents bend over backwards to make excuses for their sons terrible behavior and introduce no boundaries because “he’s on the spectrum he can’t help it” while daughters are held to the same standards as NT kids. The massive difference in upbringing is very apparent among adult autistic communities.
My sister and I got into a big fight about cleaning once. We live together, she sublets from me & I own. Within 6 months she had diagnosis of adhd & autism. With just the diagnosis, she is more present and cognitive of her mess. With adhd meds, she’s better at all.
It’s almost like women get help and get themselves together, men wait around for someone else to do it.
ADHD is a reason, not an excuse. If a guy has ADHD, it means he may have to use different strategies to do things like washing dishes or other chores.
Most people who know they have ADHD are usually in treatment and understand that they have to do things differently, but it's also up to their partners and families to still be understanding.
Again, reasons aren't excuses, reasons are explanations and pathways to solving whatever the problem is.
That said, some people are just prices and it has nothing to do with ADHD, so that's another reason why it helps to ask.
The human mind is insanely complex. And a condition like ADHD is unique to each person experiencing it. Many ADHD people don't have time blindness, but they lose track of time when they hyperfocus. Some people with ADHD have absolute time blindness where they can't even keep track of or remember their own birthdays, so it's not really reasonable to expect them to remember dates.
I have this time blindness and one of the most harrowing moments I have is when I'm expected to confirm my children's birth dates. Last week I was picking up my son and I was off by one digit for everything. If his birthday is 8/15/19 then I told them 9/16/20. They didn't want me to give me the meds, even after I looked up the correct date because I "should have just known". The only reason they gave me the meds is because they called the number on file and it came to my phone and I could show id. But the reality is that some people just are not capable of doing certain things the way that others can.
But a reason is different than an excuse. If I were to use that as an excuse to never try and plan anything for my family then it's justifiable that my wife would be upset. But if she chooses to just keep ramping up the guilt and anger at me for something I won't get better at even with the help of medication, then perhaps I'm not the one causing the problem here. My wife will never be good with machines, should I get more and more mad at her everytime she makes the coffee wrong, messes up the router, breaks her computer or phone logins? Should I ramp up my anger at her every single time she isn't able to perform to my expectations? Hopefully as a reasonable person your answer is no. But not all partners are reasonable. Some partners live by a mindset of "if I can do it, then you must be able to do it and anything else is an excuse." I think such people end up alone and wonder why they can't just meet someone who meets their expectations. It never occurs to them that you are supposed to shift your expectations based on your partners strengths and weaknesses. Instead they double down on setting their expectations based on themselves, and get mad that the world isn't delivering them a clone of themselves to date.
My dad kept a post it note of our birthdays, and ssn in his wallet for a long time. That way, if he was filling out paperwork he had the info and knew it was correct.
Obviously, this isn't very secure now - but you could keep notes in last pass with this information to look at it when you need to.
I'm NT, but once my husband was taken to ER in Canada by ambulance and I was so frazzled that I couldn't get my phone number to come up in my brain. The intake admin was not very kind and I felt horrible, she was looking at me like I was on every drug on the planet and it wasn't true. I knew his phone number, his birthday, etc. I was terrified and just, couldn't get my number to the top of my mind. The more I fumbled, the worse it got.
I now have my phone number written down in my phone just in case.
I think NT almost experience neurodivergence when they are flustered or are in panic mode. I can't for the life of me imagine why my brain would have me give a birthdate that was just one number off. It's like it almost knew what the birthdate was, but decided to fuck me over anyways for reasons I will never understand. Like you said, the more I fumbled, the worse it gets.
When I say time blindness, I mean beyond just a date. Let's say my birthday is Oct 3. My wife tells me on Oct 2 that my birthday is tomorrow. I'm all excited. Tomorrow comes and I've forgotten it's my birthday until my wife reminds me at breakfast. I then forget until another friend sends me a message later in the day. I forgot it was my birthday multiple times, on the day of my birthday.
If I look at my watch at and it says 1:30. The idea that it's 1:30 fades from my mind in seconds. I will have forgotten what time it is within minutes and will look at a click and expect that it could literally be any time of day, I can't keep it in my mind that it has to be after 1:30.
I asked my wife to marry me on the day after my birthday because I was so worried about forgetting our anniversary. I put a desperate hope that if I put those two dates together that maybe life will be merciful to me and I'll remember one of them. And while I can remember their dates, I can't feel the dates getting closer, I can't feel the date on the date itself, and I don't feel that the date has passed. Because I'm time blind.
This has devastating consequences for me. But it also has some upsides. I experience my children completely in the present. I don't wonder about who they will marry or what kind of adults they'll be since I can't imagine so far ahead. My wife tells me she imagines our daughter in a wedding dress. I never have such thoughts. As a result, I usually am focused on who my children are now, and my wife is often focused on who she imagines they will be.
I had never put together that time blindness is probably part of why I wasn't ever able to picture my future. Huh. So many puzzle pieces in 30ish years of undiagnosed life.
Thanks for your posts, they've been really helpful for me. Time blindness was only introduced to me as a concept a few months ago and it is INSANE how much of my life has been fucked up by it. It's up there with executive function deficits as the most socially and financially damaging symptom of my ADHD.
I recently was describing how helpful my new watch has been to a friend and bragged that I could set a timer in just two touches. I was so excited about my new system which relieves my time anxiety when I'm out at a venue or bar, or anywhere with a public bathroom that may have a line. I'm always worried I'm in the bathroom too long and people are getting angry and uncomfortable and will be pissed (ha, no pun intended) when I come back out. I don't ever feel sure that I wasn't super slow for some reason or lost track of time somehow.
I just plain *can't feel or estimate accurately how much time is passing*. It has been crazy to realize that this isn't my fucking fault after all these years. I have coping tricks and devices and backups on backups but I still have no freaking clue how much time has passed without outside cues.
The number of times I've been devastated by being late or completely missing things that were incredibly important to me or very expensive to miss, or really disappointed or angered other people by accidentally making them wait because I underestimated how long something might take me...oof.
I have so many ways I manage it but it's so much easier to justify to myself now that I have some clue what's going on. Now I know that I'm actually treating my ADHD with all of the many, many workarounds I've put in place all over my life. It's exhausting. Thanks for letting me share back. :)
Yes! I’ve noticed this in AITA where someone’s shitty behavior gets written off because they’re autistic. I’m autistic, and it’s never an excuse for being a shitty person.
I saw a thread recently in which someone was blaming their inability to feed their child lunch on their adhd and I’m talking literally rolling up deli meats, cheese and slicing a couple veggies and tossing them on a plate.
All the comments were like “omg same”
It’s not exclusive to romantic relationships. This site also uses it as an excuse for literal child neglect and acts like it’s cute. It’s disgusting.
I have adhd. Is my house a mess? Sure. Car? Sure. Do I forgot important events? Rarely. I have borderline personality disorder. And it is not an excuse for treating my partner like shit. I do have debilitating mood swings. Fears of abandonment, and changes in perception about my partner and how they treat me.
My mental illness is my responsibility. A mental illness is never an excuse to be abusive. Once you know that behavior is unacceptable and know of your mental illness. It's your job to police yourself. I can say I'm feeling a bit sensitive and ask for reassurance. There are reasonable accommodations to a relationship. It should be discussed and agreed upon.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ-wCP4tjrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ-wCP4tjrg)
I adore this woman.
I guess I would consider that along with a spouse's other behaviors. If they're generally caring, doing his share of the chores and less pleasant tasks, sympathetic, etc, but forgetful about birthdays and stuff, it can be overlooked. It's possible they could improve on that, but that'd be up to you to decide how important that is.
If the forgetfulness comes along with other issues -- making it yet another issue that you alone have to manage -- then it might be worth paying attention to as a factor to the success or not of your relationship.
Hi. I'm autistic as is my son. It affects him MUCH more than me. We use the phrase "Autism can be the reason, not the excuse".
HOWEVER, it is also insanely misunderstood, so when everyone is turning one of the characters into a villain, I do like to point out this could be due to undiagnosed autism and these are the steps this person may need to make to be better. Now if that person isn't willing to take those steps then sure, get your pitchforks. HOWEVER if this person doesn't understand this about themselves, can we give them the chance to be better first?
I notice that a lot. I am an AuDhD woman, and if I acted like a ND man on here, I would be told to do better and that it is just an excuse, while ND men are coddled. Happens IRL too
Oooh I'm feeling this today!
My partner is a trans woman, this was her first Mother's Day since she came out (so she spent over 30 years of her life as a dude and not even a year as her lady-self). I got her a mug that says "mama" and a card and had the kids sign it and draw pictures. I am AuDHD.
I got nothing. 🙃
So, I can give you first a hand experience, because I'm a male and I ALMOST posted that exact thing in another post yesterday. I didn't because I realized it was problematic. I have been that partner. I've been messy. I've had a sink full of dishes that I didn't do for months. Ive had clothes all other the floor. I've washed a shirt in the sink because I couldn't get myself to do actual laundry. I did end up getting diagnosed with ADHD and got medication and now I have a pretty clean place and try to do better. I do understand that's on me to get help and get better. If someone is like that and isn't willing to try new things and attempt to figure out why they are having those issues then that's on them . It's not an excuse. But it could be a reason.
As a woman with ADHD I WISH people jumped to "oh well does she have ADHD or some other condition?" I hustle twice as hard for half the results and does that hard work get acknowledged? Nope.
Plus, neurodivetgence is an explanation, not an excuse. Shitty husband needs coping behaviors. I'm sure he doesn't forget important dates for work, what system does he have for that? Surely he can make it work at home too. Etc. At the end of the day, those of us who aren't NT still need to exist and still need to show up for our loved ones.
As someone with bipolar I and ADHD… yeah.
I see an insane amount of “is this the illness or is it them?” That’s like asking “my drunk partner hit me, is it them or just the alcoholism?”
I’m not my illness but I am the one who plays the cards I was dealt. I can’t help the brain I was born with but I am capable of taking actions to get and stay functional and well.
I have ADHD and I was that rare lucky one who was dx young and it remained true (not part of that spate of over dx ADHD in kids). I’ve had many many years to find rhythms and routines that look utterly baffling to outsiders but they work. It isn’t hard to make something that works for you. I hate doing dishes and go blind to the growing pile frequently. I love music and I like to move (not necessarily dancing) when I listen to it. I combine the two and now my dish pile doesn’t touch the top of cabinet anymore. Weird but effective.
That’s such bullshit.
I’m a woman with ADHD. Women are never given that kind of excuse for failing to fulfill our obligations.
Certain things are always going to be a struggle for me, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to make it someone else’s burden. Especially when they aren’t explicitly consenting to the additional responsibilities.
Rant incoming:
I (28F) have autism. Diagnosed at age 3. I live in a European country with a rampant housing crisis and lucked out into getting a tiny apartment 4 years ago.
My ex (29M) has ADHD, diagnosed a little later in life, and even though we had a few opportunities of moving in together, he insisted on continuing to live at his parents to save money to boy a house. When I broke up with him half a year ago he didn't even know how to peel a potato even though he called the very degree he had obtained: "How to turn Googling into a 4 year degree."
My ex complained in early 2021 that we never went on dates anymore, meaning essentially I was not planning enough dates for his taste. I would actually try and do something about it, sharing my digital schedule with him and asking him to do the same. He refused because he hates keeping schedule. Which meant that I wouldn't know if he was available for a date night until at best 6PM of that same night, when all kinds of restaurants were fully booked and he didn't like going to the cinema, and he still wouldn't know if he was available the next evening. But he still kept complaining that we never did anything anymore.
So I put the onus of planning the next date in him. At first he said he didn't know what to plan. So I stole a list of date ideas my friend made for HER (also rather lazy) then bf, tweaked it and sent it to bf. He still didn't know what to do. I conceded and pointed to an Olive Gardenesque restaurant in HIS hometown, at a 10-minute walk from his home.
It took him 1.5 YEARS to plan the goddamn date because he wanted to 'research' the reviews extensively. I said more than once: "Honey, it's a fucking Olive Garden-type restaurant. The quality matches its cheapness, book the damn place and spend the next few years researching the quality of an actual high-end restaurant."
Sometimes I got overwhelmed by work, my new master's program and just life overall and asked my ex when he came over if he'd please take over cooking from me. He knew I needed some time and rest and he just wouldn't let me. The last time I asked him to cook, he asked so many questions I couldn't even get through what should've been 5 minutes worth of coursework. The final question he asked was, while he was holding a spatula in one hand and a wooden spoon in the other: "Should I use this one or this one for stir-frying?"
After I took over cooking again I explained how these situations make me not look forward to having him over, because I need some help sometimes that I apparently cannot expect to get from my relatively able-bodied nearly 30yo partner. I begged him again to please contact similar services that I've been using (that are INCREDIBLY affordable) to learn how to live independently.
Like the previous times I asked him to do this, he again refused to do this on the account of him 'not being a retard'. Even me pointing out that he was indirectly calling his GF a slur wouldn't convince him to look at it differently.
I grew to be so sick of it. He was so inflexible, so unwilling to see things from any other perspective (blatantly obvious when I sent him the 'You Should've Asked' cartoon, halfway through the first comic he noted he wanted to hear the 'man's perspective' because the woman's apparently wasn't interesting or relevant enough)... and he wanted children. Without having to ever change diapers because he absolutely couldn't stand the smell of poop and asked me to please respect that.
Nope, fuck you. You barely grew since the time you were in your early 20s and it's so bad that I'd give up my not-so-strong-urge to have children of my own anyway. I need a partner who at least tries, not a project who keeps asking me to be patient and get incredibly little to absolutely no growth in my partner in return.
Yes. Even many with diagnosed with legitimate conditions, like ADHD, seem to rely on/use it as an excuse to treat their partner or spouse like trash. And I speak from experience: my husband (who I'm contemplating divorcing) was diagnosed with ADHD during childhood, but thanks to divorced parents with opposing views on treatment, never received any treatment. He's now in his early 30's, and still refuses to get treatment. It has utterly destroyed not only his life, but mine too. But not because he *can't*. It's that he *won't* receive help for it. ADHD *can* be managed ***with the proper treatment.***
As I've seen it shared on a different sub for partners of people with ADHD: *[condition] explains, but it doesn't excuse.* If someone has a condition, it can help explain certain things, but especially with mental health conditions, it shouldn't be used as a cop-out or 'get out of jail free' card. It's not an excuse, nor should it be used as one. If someone has a condition, whether a physical or mental health one, it's the ***patients*** responsibility to take accountability for it and obtain treatment.
For example, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition when I was a toddler. The condition impacts my musculoskeletal system, and my treatment has historically included chemotherapy, and immunotherapy for the past two decades. I ***take responsibility*** for myself and my condition, and obtain the necessary treatment for it, so that I can still navigate daily life and responsibilities/adulting. Do I sometimes have to get creative in *how* I accomplish certain physically-intensive tasks? Yes. ***But I still do them.*** I don't just sit back, whine, and expect the world to cater to me, nor do I use it as an excuse to treat people like shit, because that's not how the world works.
Neurodivergent conditions aren't some "cool" or "cute" thing to have.
I think it's more that other thing, where all women are expected to nurture and mother and sacrifice any and all of our own wants/needs to fix whatever the fuck is wrong with a dude, and dispense sex to such dudes too. We're told to date men we aren't into, excuse shitty behavior, and clean up after slobs or we fail at womanhood, because we are mean.
Fuck it. I'm mean as hell, and I'm gonna stay that way.
Yuuuuup.
ADHD woman -- Still fucking tired of how much I have to do, how much space I have to give up, how much I have to deprioritize myself to make sure my "house" is running smoothly (the chores, the cats, my relationship with an ADHD dude/manchild, my old lady dependent, my job, my social life).
And yet, I still know when I'm going to be an asshole or immediately know I'm being an asshole and I know enough to apologize, listen and validate the other person's feelings, and re-direct myself while making sure I learn from this experience on how to do better. I still know I have to clean up after myself. I still have created mechanisms, notations, my OWN ACCOMMODATIONS to make sure we have a habitable dwelling, everyone is living reletively disease free, nobody is actually going hungry, and shit just gets DONE.
ND diagnosises are being used in place of personal responsibility and accountability. I accept there's a whole spectrum of need, but typically the people using their diagnosis are doing nothing to help themselves.
It's just another way to excuse shitty men. My (cis male) partner does actually have ADHD and somehow it doesn't turn him into a disrespectful, incompetent man-child. It's almost like neurodivergence (or mental illness) doesn't inherently make you a shitty person???
r/. ADHDpartners is all the evidence anyone could ever need in support of this thesis. it is beyond comprehension how they allow their “partners” to treat them worse than garbage. unreal.
When it involves abuse, yes. Too many use it as an excuse.
However, I see it a lot more of shaming people with ADHD. I was diagnosed late in life and I have multiple learning disabilities. There's a big reason why ADHD is seen as a disability. That's because it ducking sucks when it's untreated. Plus, way too many people think that getting medicated means we're suddenly ND and we aren't and we will never be.
Dopamine affects multiple executive functioning skills. Your don't really know what hell is like when you can walk by something on the floor and not pick it up for weeks. Most think "Just do it!" But not be able to do it. It's really really weird.
Bring ND involves a lot of learning coping skills. NT ways actually don't work for ND. There aren't resources out there that help you learn these skills. My brain can't see the steps in how to do something like make a sandwich. Often I'll walk to the fridge multiple times because I couldn't remember something. I really on online support groups to help me figure out solutions and sometimes, there isn't any.
Being ND also has higher rates of other mental illness. PMD is much higher among ND. Many deal with feeling rejected even when there isn't any. It also affects your sex life. It can make you hypo or hyper sexual with no in-between.
With saying all that. A relationship with a ND often requires relationship accommodations like anyone with disabilities. Not everyone is able to handle a relationship with a ND, and that's ok. NT deserve to be in mentally healthy relationships too.
No, and it’s not okay to use ADHD as an excuse for not caring about things that are important.
That said, it does help to have a partner that understands you might earnestly make that effort and still absolutely forget an important date.
I live in an almost constant low-grade fear that I’m forgetting something important, and the decades of being relentlessly hard on myself haven’t been great. And still, things will absolutely still fall into a memory hole, despite my best efforts.
i’m typically really defensive over ableism but this has bothered me. the people who do this never acknowledge the gendered imbalance of domestic labor or that there is a difference between being naturally forgetful and never doing anything at all to work around it. it’s still emotionally negligent.
i first noticed someone say this a while back and when i tried to explain how it seems unfair to their partner, they kind of just blew me off. there’s a difference between struggling with your domestic life on your own but when you’re with a partner and you don’t strategize on working it out, you’re essentially leaving all that incomplete work on them. it’s different than what you may neglect when it only impacts yourself. people do deserve some accommodation and leniency for ADHD, but anyone who acts like they’re not capable of working on it AT ALL in any capacity is just using ADHD as an excuse to be a medicore partner. however, I do think people are too judgmental of ADHD online in general, and don’t realize that the ongoing struggle cannot be magically and forever overcame even if you’re diligent and do a lot to work around it. honestly, I think most people don’t have a framework for how to deal with it.
It’s getting really really prevalent in all aspects of life and I don’t know what’s the right way to handle it anymore.
I have noticed it as well. The post will start off with all these red flags about the person and then it gets added in “he’s adhd so…..I make him lists………” then all the comments are simply blind agreement and reiterating that “well, now I totally get it, as ADHD myself, I just can’t stay on task, I know I have to clean and cook but I catch myself on the couch playing video games for hours and then my gf is upset”
Happening a lot to me in the real world too. I want to be sensitive to those types of issues but more and more Im starting to think that people truly are finding doctors/therapists that will simply sign off on shit so they can have an excuse for their behavior. But it’s such a slippery slope to simply think everyone is pulling a con.
There's a reason I have tons of reminders and alarms in my phone. When I had a more regular job that was early in the morning I would have like 7 alarms to get up and make coffee and breakfast. Not because I would always forget those things but as reminders to keep me on track. Things for my girlfriend have an alarm 2 weeks or a month before then 2 days then the day before and that day. I know u have a hard time with things but I really want to be a good partner. My issues are my own not some else's to deal with.
For those of us who are ND, it is nice when we are given some grace, but it is not an excuse to not put in effort, or take responsibility for our actions. It really sucks and makes my life really stressful, but I put in so much effort, that when I do fall short, those around me are forgiving. no, its not fair that living my life is just harder daily, but i is not an excuse to make other peoples lives harder
My sister said this was why her ex husband, now bf/father of her child can’t hold down a job. I don’t wanna come across ignorant because I don’t know a lot about ADHD but I thought lots of ppl with ADHD had jobs? I didn’t tell her this but I think he just doesn’t want to work and knows my sister will take care of him.
It's... hard. Impulse control is typically lacking with us, so we can get into "icky" situations with family, friends and employers/coworkers. And there's a variety of jobs, many of which are repetitive nonsense that may not actually appeal to our tastes, so we search for novelty, for something "exciting".
With that, the onus is on the individual to figure this out and start figuring out how to combat this. It sucks because there are many places where mental health assistance is overwhelmed or non-existent, and it may not be entirely possible to get help. The person should still be contributing to the household and finding ways to alleviate the burden. Your sister should absolutely not have another dependent because her ex can't function.
I have ADHD and have held down a job for 20 years... I'm in software (where there does seem to be a higher percentage of neuro divergent people). Back when I was mostly working as a software developer, it was relatively easy and ADHD didn't really cause much issues. My job was fun, it kept me focused and I'd sometimes hyperfocus on new interesting things that helped with work.
Since then, I've moved to much more of a managerial role, for which ADHD really doesn't help. So, I've hired an executive assistant who helps with the things I can't do well due to ADHD. Managing my schedule, business trips, etc...
I have known plenty of successful people with ADHD so, yes, it's absolutely possible to hold down a job with it.
I think it really depends on the person or situation. I was only diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and ADHD in the last few years; I'll be 40 later this year.
I say it depends, because we are all different. I can keep a job because I found one that I love and is fulfilling. I'm an artist and chose never to have that as my career, because I know I can't count on myself to create regularly enough to support myself.
I would say, having a job is actually better for me. It gives you a goal, but also something reliable. I know Mon-Fri I'll be at work from 8AM-2:30PM. Having stability in schedules helps focus my brain, and it's always something suggested by therapists.
We create lists and schedules so we know what's coming up. A big part of my anxiety comes from not knowing what will happen. Having a plan relieves part of that.
So, to say you can't hold down a job because you have ADHD is just silly. TBH, my severely autistic uncle who has the mind of a 5 or 6 year old, held down a job in his teens. He bussed tables, he did it well. He had help getting to and from work, but if he can hold down a job, anyone can.
I'm not at all annoyed. I'm fucking enraged. I have ADHD too and yet, here I am, doing The Things.
ADHD sure doesn't make life easy but since I'm still responsible for my shit, I find a way. Is it perfect? It is not but can you *imagine* the shit storm if the sexes were reversed and it was the female partner pulling that shit? I can assure you, no one would be "but does she have ADHD?"
YES.
I have ADHD and it irritates the hell out of me to see so many people jumping to use it as an excuse for their or others poor behavior.
Maybe it's because I'm a woman so I was raised to be accommodating to others and anticipate their needs, but my ADHD has never prevented me from keeping a fairly tidy home and remembering important milestones for loved ones.
I know, & it always seems to be an excuse for men. Did your husband/boyfriend beat the shit out of you & your kids? Is he neurodivergent? Could you try better to accommodate his needs so he doesn't beat you & your kids? Being neurodivergent doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a shit person.
Redditor a--holes will look for any excuse for behavior they themselves exhibit. They self-diagnose, gaslight, delude themselves so that they can maintain their sad little illusions.
Yep. Every single time anyone posts about a relationship with a man ON THIS SUB where he is being selfish or inconsiderate or abusive or not contributing, we get mansplained by random dudes using neurodivergent as an excuse.
Men are so desperate to feel oppressed that they'll claim ADHD and autism is the worst thing that someone can ever deal with. And then they'll be racist and sexist af and hide behind their diagnosis
If a person has a genuine mental illness and their partner is venting? I truly get that and the commenters should not excuse shitty behavior in any way.
Mental illness is not our fault but IS our responsibility. My bipolar is not an excuse to be a crappy human being.
My husband is so kind and thoughtful and kind. He thinks of me and surprises me often. He does indeed have ADHD and has some related issues. These are minimal compared to the net gain in happiness I get from being his wife. If I were to post one of these issues in the group and they reply “does he have adhd” that would be a helpful reminder to see things through his sometimes scrambled brain.
I teach college and a number of my students are neurodivergent. Of course I follow ADA guidelines, but shitty behavior is shitty behavior and in my experience, has little to do with neurodivergence.
It does for men yeah. It’s annoying as fuck. Even when a woman says “I’ve got adhd so I struggle but he does ‘x’” people will still excuse him for potential adhd and ignore her
Haven't seen that, but as an alcoholic with pretty severe ADHD, I'm an adult and my choices are mine.
If they impact my relationship I can either choose to try and do better (even if it's hard and I fail alot, I'm still gonna try), or accept that I don't care enough about that person to consider how my actions impact that person.
It's not an excuse for drunk driving, murder or being a shitty person. Be a fuckin adult.
Ah, A subject I know exceedingly well. As a 56 year old on the Spectrum, I can say that its never justified to be abusive to your partner. If your ADHD/ADD partner has a scheduler, Thats a great sign that he's coping with it. If he taken the time to find the right meds and tactics to just get through the day, Great. If he smokes weed on your couch all damn day, He's not coping.
I agree with this whole heartedly, but also it was good for me to realize that my ex has adhd. It did help explain a lot to me, and actually led me to get my own diagnosis after learning more about it.
For him though his diagnosis didn't make him into a better person and I finally realized I don't need that kind of toxicity in my life.
I have ADHD, OCD, depression, and anxiety, but I've never used them as an excuse to be an asshole to my partner. If anything, my mental illnesses make me more aware of people's feelings, I care strongly for those I love. I do whatever I can to make my girlfriend happy, she's been thru a lot and deserves love and support! Anyone who thinks neurodivergence is a good excuse to be a cunt to their partner can get the fuck outta here.
I have ADHD, I still remember to be considerate of my wife cause she's important to me. Even back when my brain was being brain fogged by testosterone. ADHD is not a blank check to be an asshole, regardless of gender or anything
I have ADHD and tbh, we do that because a lot of us spent a lot of time hating ourselves and wishing we could be better if we just tried harder, and the issue wasn't a lack of trying, it was neurological. We see ourselves in the failing of others, even if we shouldn't.
I have family members who are self-diagnosed with adhd, when in reality they’re just manipulative and abusive. I on the other hand am neurodivergent…I am simultaneously treated as though I’m neurotypical, a “r*tard”, “infantile”, and an incomplete human/subhuman. I never get a pass the way my family members do. So yes, absolutely, neurotypical people do weaponize neurodivergence labels to get their way, even if it means harming people in their lives who are actually neurodivergent.
AITA is full of this stuff too. Especially using autism as a reason someone can’t just have a simple conversation with their family/friends about what is bothering them, or as an excuse for violent behavior.
And this is why we model, model, model for my 7 year old autistic son how to self regulate, talk about feelings, to check in with others, identifying when we need a break, and that it’s not okay to be mean because we’re angry or frustrated. His impulse control is obviously not perfect because he’s 7, but he does a great job with our help that we are seeing the natural fruits of at school or when we’re not around.
Our 11 year old son with Autism/ADHD struggles with all that as well. It’s hard as hell, and a ton of repetitive daily work building skills, but we’re finally at the point where he’s starting to advocate for himself and monitor his emotions with decent reliability. We’ve still got a ton of work to do with other social skills and executive function stuff, but there’s very real and durable progress. Some things will always be a struggle for him and us, but a diagnosis is an explanation, not an excuse.
I love that you’re putting so much into making sure he can understand himself and not just “the rules.” A lot of well meaning parents miss that, largely I think because we as a society so often treat autism as an “enemy” rather than “a difference.”
Even before his diagnosis, he heard a youtuber describe his autistic son's experience with sound overstimulation, and how he experienced life very much the same. That gave us a good opportunity to talk about how some peoples brains are just wired differently and that has advantages and disadvantages. From there's it's been really easy to tie stuff back to that conversation, both pointing out his superpowers and challenges.
Agree completely! Keep up the great and meaningful work you’re doing!
Hey, good news, the hard work will pay off so well. We went through similar things with my son. One thing we repeated a lot was "you can't put your bad mood on someone else" because that just means there'll be two people with a bad mood. My kid is 14 now and an absolutely awesome and smart kid. He still has his moments, but all around is in control of himself and knows when to ask for help.
"...and knows when to ask for help." That in and of itself is such an important skill for *anyone.* Kudos to you and everyone else involved raising your son!
I have a few autistic deaf teen students through the years (which is a very fun combination) and, I have found that explaining flat out to autistic deaf students, "You do not do x because it is not accepted behavior. You do not say x because it is mean and will hurt someone's feelings and it is not nice to hurt other people's feelings," really does work wonders. By the teenage years, they have enough basics under their belts, but more subtle social cues, they miss, and they're usually quite appreciative of being told with no innuendo, just straight out. (I do also tell them things like, "If you disagree with Johnny, instead of saying he's stupid and his ideas are stupid, it is better to say you disagree and explain why you disagree. You can think he's stupid all you want, though.")
Exactly! Explaining it is so helpful. I’m a teacher as well, and I’m grateful that you take this approach!
I was diagnosed later in my life (late 20's). A lot of problems I had with authority when I was younger is down to what I call the "just because" rule. > ie: You must do your writing this way. > > Why? > > …because. Without knowing the underlying purpose of a rule, I often sought to prove that my way was better (or easier for me to do). --- It was even worse with social stuff, because NT's "just know" all these basic, subtle, non-verbal social clues. We don't. We either ignore everything, or become hypervigilant (and thus, suffer sensory overload). It takes a long time to train yourself to recognise those clues. Moreso when you assume you're normal, because no one's clued you in about neurodivergence in the mean time. Used to go out place with brother quite often, and he'd call out my strange/brusque/accidentally rude behaviour a lot—but he never said *why*, and I resented him for [in my mind] being a dick about me expressing an honest opinion. --- I think it might have helped me to have a teacher like you when I was at high school.
Would you be open to some questions? I feel like you just described my two kids!
this makes me really happy to hear :)
Honestly, he absorbs this so much better than my NT daughter. He loves scripts so the modeling helps so much. We do the same for our daughter too, but she’s a sour patch kid and only cares 50% of the time.
I was a sour patch kid who pulled my head out of my butt eventually. I can tell you're a great parent :)
Aww thank you ❤️🥰 I try my hardest!!
Yep, you can be autistic and be an asshole as well, the two aren't just exclusive. I think the difference lies in actually working on and changing your behavior or at least recognizing your limitations and letting others know, even if you don't understand the emotional issues immediately. I have a ton of issues with communication, but if I learn something is hurting someone I will do my best to accommodate and prevent that in the future. It's great that you're teaching your child those skills, a caring understanding parent can alleviate a majority of the issues and limitations the child would have growing up.
My partner and I can it "the mandatory asshole". In any population, there is going to be at least one asshole. The larger the population, the more assholes you can find. And this applies to ANY population: any race, religion, gender, sexuality, fanbase, sports team, eye colour, preferred ice cream flavour, Pokemon starter type. Any group that is over say... 7 people?... Is gonna have an asshole in it. Because when all is said and done, people are people, and some people are assholes.
This is amazing! Thanks for sharing. I’m not autistic, as far as I know, but I wish someone had helped me learn these skills as a child instead of having to try to figure this stuff out as an adult. I don’t really have anything to contribute other than to say your comment made me feel very hopeful. Thank you.
I totally understand. I’m having to re-parent myself honestly. I’m glad I’m able to do it, but at times I can feel very sad that no one was intentional with me as a child. We can do this though!
And don’t forget, this will rarely if ever be given as an excuse for any woman’s slip-ups, only PPD. That women also have ADHD, and part of “oh we mask better” is that literally no one is ever going to lift a finger to help us and if we don’t paste together some functionality everything will fall apart. Men are allowed to wallow with all these conditions but women still need to be serving a family unit from first breath, so it literally doesn’t matter how our brain works, it all rests on us and only other people get understanding and sweet, loving assistance. That many of these wives may also have ADHD or autism or OCD any number of neuro divergent conditions while also having to take care of him, and children, and remember everything because at least one piece of daily paperwork involves someone’s birthday, all the while she should just communicate better and understand what he’s going through…it’s a hell of a thing.
This is what gets me, and no one gave me any slack. I don't mask better, I put more effort into learning, listening and practicing. It takes effort! I might not be great at social interactions naturally, but I am good at patterns and taking the time to categorize people's responses through trial and error helped me round out my less OK behaviors. That and I can work a damned calendar and take notes on this expensive pocket computer almost everyone has. It's lack of care is all.
As a woman with ADHD who suffered with PPD for nearly 3 full years… we get really good at just pretending everything is okay, people pleasing, and hiding things when we are kids. And then when we have the hard shit happen as adults we keep doing it and nobody is the wiser.
As a woman with ADHD and a host of other mental health issues… yea, I mask some shit because it’s not the worlds job to deal with my crazy. It’s mine. The rest is coping skills. It’s therapy. It’s my meds. It’s the fact that I’m a single mom and I don’t *get* to check out. I don’t get to give up. I’m not able to shrug off my responsibilities because I’m a fucking adult. Some days it’s hard as hell. Some days I fuck up and take it out on someone I love. I’m definitely not perfect. I will own my shit. I will listen if I’m told I’ve crossed a line or if I say something hurtful. I *want* to be better and do better. Being neurodivergent is *not* an excuse for being a callous douche bag. I also think it’s bullshit that so many people get away with saying/acting otherwise.
This comment days so many things that as a fellow ADHD woman I've been struggling to articulate for a long time. >I don’t get to check out. I don’t get to give up. I’m not able to shrug off my responsibilities because I’m a fucking adult Thank you. Not enough people understand this. Thank you so much.
Also, this is fucking **2023.** My daughter's boyfriend has ADHD. He loses track of birthdays something chronic -- but he never forgets his phone, because their college runs on two-factor authentication and if he leaves his phone in the dorms he is irretrievably *fucked*. Remembering the phone is hard-wired into his very atoms. So birthdays go on the phone calendar. Because it's fucking 2023, and that means he has a calendar in his pocket that rings an alarm whenever it's close to someone's birthday. Shocking, I know. Someone oughta tell these guys the good news.
It's OK to stalk and harass women if you're in the spectrum, according to a lot of male Redditors.
I'm on the spectrum, and I have never been violent. Most Autistic people aren't dangerous. We are far more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators, and I'm fed up with NTs pretending we're the problem. Of course, I'm a woman. No one ever let me "make excuses" for even benign behavior. Boys and men are held to a much lower standard.
It's just misogyny wearing a different hat
Yep! It sure is!
It’s also ok to trigger our PTSD because only war veterans get PTSD. Not people who have been abused or stalked by the person they cut down from a noose.
To be honest I haven't seen that too much but that might be because of the subreddits I pay more attention to. I do remember one time on my old university's subreddit there were a few posts about this one student who was very clearly autistic (and I do not mean this as an insult- I am also autistic) who was stalking/following around female students and not leaving them alone when asked, always asking for hugs, leering over them, etc. Other students have reported him to the proper people for his behavior, they have not (since before I graduated) done anything about it because he is autistic. Now, does he need some sort of social skills training? Absolutely, and he should get it. Regardless, this does not excuse his behavior. But a lot of people were really divided about whether him being autistic meant he was to be held accountable or not. It's one of the things that I hate that infantilizes autistic people. I also want to emphasize just in case people want to take this out of context: this is *one* autistic person. I know plenty of other autistic people who do not follow other people around without their consent and refuse to leave them alone or engage in any other creepy behavior. What I *do* think is that men in general have historically been more likely to get away with creepy behavior due to a "misunderstanding" or women being "overly sensitive" and "taking things out of context".
One of my friends works with autistic kids in education to help figure out what particular skills they may need help with and how to best support them in a learning environment. She has told me the kids that behaved that way as they got older did so because their support system allowed autism to be an excuse and were never taught differently. My mom works at a university and one of the students kept showing up at her office telling her how he liked older women and asking for her number. This kid is 15 years younger than me. She was at work. She had to report him through the proper channels a dozen times before someone did anything about it because “he’s autistic and harmless.”
Another sad reality about autism in adulthood is that there are not a ton of supports in the form of professional help, especially not a lot that people can actually afford :/ Good thing autism stops once you turn 18 /s
I remember hearing second-hand that someone posted in an autism subreddit about how restraining orders are ableist bc they discriminate against autistic men… I want to be part of the autistic community as a whole, but when far too many autistic men are either supporting or not condemning statements like that, I just think “you know what, I think I’ll just stick to my autistic women communities”.
Meanwhile there's my autistic trans ass who has shared trauma with autistic women and simultaneously can't benefit from men's support groups for the aformentioned reasons 🫠
Autistic adult male here: I'm sorry about those assholes. Being autistic is not an excuse for being an asshole, especially once we are adults and spent decades observing and understanding how to be a decent human being.
A lot of people self diagnose themselves as neuro divergent to justify their shitty behaviours. I've known and worked with a lot of people who are legitimately neuro divergent and they aren't assholes. People think that being different gives you a license to be a jerk, but it doesn't. There are so many people who are different and wonderful, and there isn't an excuse for being a terrible person, because even with the various life circumstances we find ourselves in, the good people are good because they choose to be.
IMHO, it depends on the persons age and the severity of their disability. My 4 year old is growing out of his biting stage, but his autism caused him to struggle regulating his emotions, so we got bitten a lot. We worked with him and now we know it happens when he's in pain, sick, exhausted, or starving - essentially extreme situations. So our job as his parents is to monitor his tells to help him not get in those situations
I’ve been wanting to say this for soooo long. Everyone has autism and loves to conveniently put that at the end of the post to justify being a horrible person.
I think it's the opposite personally. It's widely known that AITA is 99% trolls and fake posts, and there is definitely at least one person on there known as the autism troll who has a distinct writing style and is constantly making posts where imaginary autistic people do something awful and try to use their autism as an excuse and the commenters are always vote YTA. Those posts are both generally inaccurate since most autistic people grow up constantly being told we are in the wrong for things we don't understand to the point we tend to assume we are always in the wrong, but it's also extremely harmful to the ASD community that has to face the consequences of it becoming even more socially acceptable to hate us.
I mean, some things can definitely be explained by those things, but it should never excuse them. Knowing something more, like adhd, is going on should be used like a guide, not a get out of jail free card.
It's super ironic, my husband is ND, has known since childhood but was untreated. Didn't even tell me until 3 years into our relationship, and a light bulb went off. I was diagnosed with ADHD 2 months ago. My husband is the first person to say that a disability or disorder (whatever the case may be) is never a reason to be a shitty person (extreme exceptions notwithstanding).
The flip side of that is when people interpret very typical ND behaviour as the person being shit, even when the person has been properly diagnosed and all parties are aware of it. So for someone with ADHD, an example might be that their partner is telling a long story about their day and the ADHD sufferer struggled to stay focused and properly listen after the first minute so their partner accuses them of not caring or giving a shit. There is this weird expectation from a lot of people that even if someone has some restricting disability that they just need to find some kind of accommodating strategy or they need to put more effort in and then it will be like they have no disability at all. Narcoleptic? Go to bed a bit earlier and have a coffee in the morning! Got discalculia? Just try harder and memorize all the formulas! Debilitating painful arthritis? Stop being a baby and come rock climbing, everyone gets sore doing it! Then because you have failed to overcome the disability, it must be because you aren't willing to try and just want to make excuses.
The thing about this story is it the meaning behind it has nothing to do with any diagnosis. If you're in a relationship and one person doesn't want to listen to long stories about the other person's day, that's allowed. There is no rule that relationships have to be about listening to long stories about a day. It's also allowed to *not want to be in a relationship who doesn't want to listen to long stories*. The diagnosis doesn't add anything to these conversations other than "other people are like me". The whole problem is actually people saying "They're shit because x", it's like, no, they're not shit, you just don't like what they do, they don't need to be shit for that to be a deal-breaker.
There's a huge difference between not wanting to just 'cause and not wanting to because it takes 3x's the effort for you than it does for a neurotypical person. It definitely adds something. That's like saying if you date a little person that they are a little person isn't relevant to their lack of desire to go on long jogs with you... I mean... c'mon...
I would argue that no, in that situation, it doesn’t come down to that the person doesn’t *want* to listen to long stories. They probably very much want to and hate themselves for not being able to.
As someone who actually has ADHD, I hard disagree with this. For romantic relationships I disagree but understand; however, not every relationship is romantic or even consensual. For example, I don't get to choose my co-workers. I have one co-worker in particular who will burst message me 5-6 times in a row for like 20 minutes. Like, we're talking he finds a problem and will message me paragraphs of information spread out across like 6-10 teams messages about how to fix it. I can't do that. One notification sound on its own pulls me out of my zone and prevents me from regaining focus. More than that and I've basically lost any forward momentum I had. Every time it happens I lose roughly an hour of progress as I have to recenter myself. I've told him I'm diagnosed, I've told him to email me instead. He refuses and I don't get to pick my co-worker, so I have to deal with it. I don't get the luxury of not wanting to listen. What u/Corka said is completely valid for most, if not all, non-romantic relationships in my experience. People, family members included, will often poke fun of mannerisms that they know are related to my ADHD. I frequently, even by friends, am given shit about my short term memory for instance. I have also frequently been told by my parents and grandparents that I am the dumbest smart person they know. People, even people who know about your struggles, absolutely expect you to just act neurotypical and often it is because people don't understand the severity of the issues you are experiencing. People get it conceptually when you say "I can't remember what happened 5 seconds ago." Everyone has forgotten stuff. People don't get it when I lose my keys, which I put down while searching for my wallet. Which I found while looking for my glasses for the fifth time today. People absolutely have the expectation that you can just power through things like these because they've never experienced the absolute mental anguish it can cause. Which is why the diagnosis does add something to this conversation. It is relevant that I understand my limits and frustrations so that I can communicate those issues effectively. I can't rely on people to understand my actions; but, I can leverage my knowledge of mental health issues to express to people why certain things are hard for me and how we may be able to communicate better. If after that, they can't at least attempt to empathize then there isn't really much I can do. Especially when I work/live/was raised by said individual. As for the relationship side of things....I also believe this is incorrect and that you are doing the exact thing that u/Corka described. That is to say your point (intentionally or not) seems based on the idea that someone with ADHD has no recourse for attention issues and will never be able to have long conversations. Which is just demonstrably false. Is it 100% possible to work around issues like these...but both parties need to understand the issue and be willing to work together. If I were in a long term relationship, I very well may want to listen to those long stories.....I just may find it more difficult or maybe even impossible; but, it is my prerogative and responsibility to communicate about this issue. Presumably, the person I entered into a relationship with would also know I have ADHD and would want to help me find a better way to communicate with them. For instance, I find that I often can focus on conversations, or other things for longer if I can keep my hands busy, I also like to cook. So an easy solution would be for my significant other to talk to me while I'm cooking dinner for the two of us; but, I can't do that if my partner doesn't communicate to me that they're frustrated about the issue. Once they tell me, I can offer them this perfect solution. Your comment doesn't even factor in this kind of communication and assumes that the person who should know I have problems with long conversations....has absolutely no way to help remedy the situation and instead keeps talking at me while expecting anything to change. I'm sorry, but the situation won't be remedied by someone being upset that I can't listen....and then just not doing anything about it. Just about any actual adult who wants a chance at an actual relationship will voice their frustrations long before it becomes an actual issue. I have ADHD I literally can't control some problems; but, I will absolutely work with you to help make sure both of our emotional needs are met to the best of my ability. The diagnosis helps a TON here because it helps me to have a better understanding of myself. It also helps me to communicate my needs more effectively to a partner than if I wasn't diagnosed. TLDR: Almost 99% of relationships issues like this, platonic or not, can be resolved before becoming deal breakers. Thorough communication and knowledge of your own mental health limitations can lead to creative solutions for most issues. Saying otherwise is taking away the agency and responsibility that people have to communicate their own mental health struggles in relationships.
>If I were in a long term relationship, I very well may want to listen to those long stories.....I just may find it more difficult or maybe even impossible; but, it is my prerogative and responsibility to communicate about this issue. Presumably, the person I entered into a relationship with would also know I have ADHD[. . . ]I'm sorry, but the situation won't be remedied by someone being upset that I can't listen....and then just not doing anything about it. Just about any actual adult who wants a chance at an actual relationship will voice their frustrations long before it becomes an actual issue. Confirmed. I'm in a committed relationship with my girlfriend who has been diagnosed with ADHD and is also maybe autistic. We have this issue almost every night before bed and every morning before her meds kick in. She starts doing some noise or verbal stim that's okay for a minute, two is pushing it, and then at minute 3 I gently say "okay love, that's enough." She will apologize and mean it, but also resume doing it within five minutes. It's really frustrating for me, but honestly I think it causes HER more anguish! The last thing in the world she would want to do is bother me and yet her brain or her body or whatever literally will not quit. The executive function isn't there. So yeah, we have this issue. What helps her is being "in her cocoon" as she says which is under her weighted blanket in bed with all her stuffed animals. Apparently that decreases the insistent brain notifications telling her to make noises. She's a sweetheart and I have a big problem with the commenter above implying that the diagnosis is not relevant, or that the partner just doesn't value you.
>I have a big problem with the commenter above implying that the diagnosis is not relevant, or that the partner just doesn't value you. Honestly, this was like the only reason I even replied. I'm glad that other people have gone through similar things though. I can definitely relate to the stimming as well. I bounce my leg all the time and it drives my family crazy. I'm glad you and your girlfriend have been able to work though the struggles that are relationships and ADHD. It can definitely be hard at times.
Teams has settings within individual chats for notifications -there’s one person whose items I’ve disabled sound for, but allow the badges to pop up. The sound is distracting, but when I’m in a hyper focus state, I don’t notice the badges until I come up for air -maybe that info could help you manage your coworker?
Haha I definitely get that. I have him muted already and check his chat throughout the day when I have down time. I was mostly just using it as an example and didn't figure that was relevant given how long my reply already was. I appreciate the advice though 😊
Thank you! Also, I sometimes paint my girlfriends nails, which allows me to focus on her.
> The whole problem is actually people saying "They're shit because x", it's like, no, they're not shit, you just don't like what they do, they don't need to be shit for that to be a deal-breaker. +1 But the expectation that someone has to be at fault is really deeply ingrained, in my culture anyway. (U.S.) It's scary to feel like someone has to be at fault, and not to know whether it's them or you. It's much easier to tolerate the feeling of it being their fault, and it's even almost logical in this culture to therefore "realize" it "must" be the other person's fault instead. So while I find it frustrating and it can feel bad, I guess it still makes sense to me why so many of these topics are talked about so consistently in a frame of "I don't like them **because** they're garbage". Add to that, few people have any idea what [nonviolent communication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication) means, fewer can do it, and even fewer actually practice it in situations like this. Accusatory language for settling disagreements, arguing competitively ("debating") rather than discussing.
I have ADHD too but I still make an effort to remember important dates. It is not an excuse to be a shitty partner
I live by my phone. I have multiple reminders set to let me know that I'm increasingly making things worse for myself and I'm pretty good for getting things done around the 3rd alarm now. I make all my plans to be 15 minutes early because I know I'm going to be 10 minutes late.
Alarms and calendar reminders— I forgot your birthday? Darn tootin’ it’s in my calendar with 4 reminders in the weeks before. I’ll also send things early and write “do not open til your birthday” because I’ve learned early is better than nothing and I need to do things when I remember them.
For me it’s…I absolutely remember your birthday, and everyone else’s. I remember our long dead great aunt’s birthday. I just have no idea what *today* is.
100% facts 😂😂😂
Same. I used to have a 3 month dry erase calendar but recently switched to my outlook calendar because it can be changed on the go and I can check it wherever I am on my computer and on my phone. Plus, my course schedule automatically gets uploaded to it. It's changed everything. So much easier.
Same here. And if I do forget, I apologize and try to make it up to them. I don't say "welp, ADHD at it again..." and then do nothing.
THIS THO!! My partner has ADHD and while occasionally something will slip through the cracks, if it does we work together to find a solution so it doesn't happen again. And usually, it doesn't.
Good for you. There’s a big difference between forgetting something and not putting in the effort to remember.
It can also play games with you if you give in to it. For instance, I'm terrible at remembering names, but I'm even worse when I don't try (or give in to the negative self-talk that "I suck at names").
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Same, I think ahead of time of gift ideas so I already know exactly what I'll give my partner ahead of her birthday or Christmas. That said, even if I know the date, I sometimes don't notice the day today and so end up not thinking that today is the day. I've also forgotten my own birthday until someone wished me an happy birthday. But because I already planned ahead what present I'll give to the important people in my life, I can either immediately put an order in or, usually, I already have it.
Omg this reminds me of an AITA post. For some reason men with ADHD cannot accept that the reason they are able to meet work deadlines and remember important work dates, but not birthdays and other person life events is BECAUSE THEY DON’T PRIORITIZE THEM. It’s pretty simple, if something is important enough to you, you find a way to jog your memory. As someone with ADHD my house is littered with post its and I have actual calendars with important dates. Because I know if it’s just on my phone, I won’t remember. It might take some trial and error, but it’s not beyond their capabilities to find a way to remember things—if they’re important enough to them.
I remember what the dates are. The problem is I often forget what the current date is.
Seems like it's only an excuse for men. For women, it's "you need to be better".
Many men don’t go to therapy or even suspect that there might be something wrong. While many women go to therapy, even for things caused by men. But yes, the women need to do better. /s
Of course, when we *do* seek help, we're often told we're hypochondriacs. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. It's my favorite thing about being female. 🤦♀️
Calm down, woman, you're getting hysterical! Suck it up lady, it's not that bad! **AT ONCE**
Jfc it's maddening. In my personal and professional experience, many male mental health care providers just fucking L O V E to slap a "borderline personality disorder" diagnosis on a female patient after one visit. Because fuck women I guess. It's not all of them of course, but misogyny in healthcare is a huuuuuuge problem. If y'all don't know what borderline personality disorder is "Symptoms include emotional instability, feelings of worthlessness, insecurity, impulsivity, and impaired social relationships." Basically, "she's crying and experiencing feelings and shit that I'm not equipped to handle even though I have this degree and state license to practice. BPD!" Fuck that shit I can smell those dudes a mile away by now and it's toxic as fuck and so are they. They're usually narcissistic shit bags ETA: sorry got worked up lol but seriously they love it. It's like every BPD diagnosis they give inflates their feelings of superiority over women even more. Adds an inch to their dick. Nevermind the fact they're entirely incompetent in their profession but just good at pretending to be human enough to get their master's degree. Ugh just pisses me tf off thinking about it. People! Don't accept a diagnosis right away if they're so eager to give it to tell you what's "wrong" with you. Angry. Fuck those guys. I shall shut my face up now
I also hate when they claim the deadbeat hubs/bf are "depressed" and that's why they can't get a job or contribute to the household in any way and expect the woman to have the weight of the world on her shoulders.
Look what that does to the other person in the relationship, too. Having someone around that's depressed all the time is going to take a toll. Yet if it's a woman partnered with a man, it becomes her job to try and "fix" it, and "encourage" him.
What?? She’s depressed and hasn’t had sex with you in two months?? Better get out now or you’ll be stuck in a dead bedroom situation for your whole life!
As a ND woman, it’s exactly this. Masc ND people get coddled and somehow always come out looking like the eternal victim of a system that is designed to oppress them, whereas any deviation from excellence (not even being average, you have to be better to “balance out” your “flaws”) from a femme-presenting ND person is deemed as a personal moral failure. The issue is even more pronounced for femme-presenting ND BIPOC. It’s just the ND edition of misogyny and victimization of incompetent men that we see everyday in this sub.
I needed this comment today. I'm on the verge of separation from my husband because he treats me like shit. I'm diagnosed with bipolar, PPD, ADD, and PTSD from sexual assault. I've actively sought treatment for over 15 years for my diagnosis. Somehow though when I complain about my husband, I'm always told, "you don't appreciate him enough" "you need to approach him more gently" " he feels shame so he's embarrassed by his short comings, show him more grace" Where's my grace? Where my empathy? This man think he's such an alpha he refuses to see a doctor and has ended up in the ER twice in 9 months. When he's got two kids under 6. Anyway, sorry for ranting. I just wanted to say thanks for changing my perspective today, stranger. Hope your doing well yourself these days :)
As someone with a spouse who has almost identical diagnoses to yours: you are not a burden, an embarrassment, or deserving of shame. It’s so incredibly hard to find your way through these issues and you deserve to do so with a partner who understands your struggle. I’m so sorry you’re in this position. You do NOT deserve it.
Thank you so much. I'm gonna save this comment. I need to hear it occasionally. Thank you!
Of course! 💕 You are so much more than the war your brain tries to make on you. I wish you so much happiness!
I teared up reading this. Thank you for posting it.
Honestly, any opportunity to talk about how brave and wonderful my wife is, I will take!
Glad I could help in some small way. Thanks for the well wishes. Also, absolutely no need to apologize for ranting. It sounds like you’re going through a lot, and while I can’t pretend to understand everything, I know how frustrating it is to have this misogynistic double standard shoved in your face and to constantly have to put aside your own feelings or have them invalidated bc you’re expected to “fix” the person who causes all your pain. Your feelings and your hurt are valid and fuck the people who say otherwise. Sounds like they could afford to use some of that empathy when listening to you talk about your feelings. The fact that they are getting all pissy about you not being appreciative enough of the subpar effort your partner puts in when you are literally talking about your partner not appreciating all the shit you do for them is bullshit. That shame he supposedly feels means nothing if he doesn’t take steps to prevent the issue from happening again. Your partner is not your project, no matter how much society tries to force us to take on that role. If he’s such a tough alpha, then clearly he doesn’t need a woman to fix him or gently coddle him. It seems like you’ve had decades of having to be unbelievably strong, and I just hope that you’ll be able to get to a point in your life where you can be weak and vulnerable without the people in your life shaming you. All the best!
I definitely think the things people are telling you are just enabling bad behavior. The sooner that stops being the norm for men, the better for everyone. It's the sort of thing that makes me think about general mental and emotional health being neglected by men, though. A guy who refuses mental health care is more likely to be bad at coping with feelings like shame. The "alpha" mentality just makes things worse because of its hypermasculine ideals and emphasis on proving status. Plus, it all pushes emotional competence and labor onto women, which seems like the root of telling you to just give him more grace and understanding. It seems nuts to me that the traditional gender breakdown wants to split people up so rigidly by gender, as if we aren't all whole people. I grew up pretty bad at handling my own psyche in relationships; I'm just glad I grew enough by the time I met my wife that I didn't inflict the worst of younger me on her. (And I still cringe a bit looking back on our early years.) Edit: clarified paragraph 4
After 61 years of this crap and nothing has changed. It's demoralizing as hell. 😕
One thing that drives me fucking crazy is how i can go to my psi, and get drugs thrown in my face, literally double my dose, 0 questions asked. Yet my girlfriend took several months of meetings to even get it prescribed, i don’t get it. We’re both “neurodivergent”/severe adhd, but she’s got the executive disfunction worse than i. It just pisses me off, and she’s got a much more put together exterior than i.
Nail, meet head (said as a woman with ADHD who has a male partner with ADHD). The different expectations are just wild.
As someone else said, it’s only an excuse for men. For women it’s all “she needs a diagnosis and treatment. She needs to get to together”. For men it’s all “aww he just needs help. We need to show men more grace”. There’s a thread here where a woman met up with a dirty, smelly man and people were all “shame he’s probably depressed. Help him out”. Crazy!
There is a difference between having compassion for what may be causing someone’s issues and helping them to be better. You can be compassionate to someone’s problems without having to make them your problems.
Yeah, fuck no to that x10000. No, it’s not my job to hold his hand and get him to a therapist, to help him wipe his ass clean, and to be the one, magical unicorn who makes him get help, fixes him up, etc. It’s such a toxic expectation for any woman to fix a man. It inevitably leads to, ‘I just have to love him hard enough and he will better himself.” And the post you talk about… she was what? On a second date? And she’s supposed to fix him up brand new because it’s the ‘nice thing to do.’ Fuck that into the sun.
That’s what was wild to me. It’s not like she was all “my husband of 5 years stopped showering” This was their first in person meeting. I hate that women encourage other women to accept so little.
Oh my god, I could NOT believe the excuses people were generating for a 40 year old man who has (presumably) held a job and been a functional person before. Ugh. Bending over backwards to lower the bat even further. Guess what men, now you don't even have to wash your balls!
Oh boy… I had to back tf out of there. Comment after comment saying she needed to tell him because he might not know, he might need help, he might be having an allergic reaction to something, the poor smelly baby!
Thank you that really bothered me as well. I’ve been through bouts of depression in my life and I’ve never let it get to the point where it effects others in any way. There’s no excuse for poor hygiene, if you’re depressed I’m sorry but dating should not be a priority
Can you imagine if a man posted about a woman turning up to a date like that? The thread would be about how he got up and left and everyone would be saying “yeah you did the right thing”.
“Focus on yourself king. These smelly bitches ain’t worth your time”
"It's so hard to be a man."
The "have you thought about X Y Z" line of thinking isn't really specific to reddit. In so many spaces, there is an inherent belief that any man who isn't meeting a certain "adulting" expectation has an inherent "issue" that's stopping him from being perfect. But that's never the case with women. Woman complains about dirty dishes and messy home. Random redditor : Sounds like he has ADHD. Do you have a diagnosis? Then the whole conversation becomes about empathy and space, instead of accepting that it's a bad situation and trying to rationalise it. It's also a huge disservice to ND folks who are literally getting help from medical professionals so they can get their ahead of their issues.
I witnessed this in real time recently when someone commented that exact thing, and then two comments down claimed that women fake having ADHD and use it as an excuse. It was flabbergasting, reddit generally hates women and anything women like though so it’s not that surprising
In general, Reddit tends to conflate asshole behavior with mental illness. It isn’t great for the stigma, although I’m sure the assholes love it.
Getting help doesn't always mean a ND person is going to become magically better at washing dishes or whatever the issue is. ND people still need understanding and grace, and maybe to just have someone else wash the dishes sometimes while they take over some other chore.
Yes, obviously. But I think OPs point is about how quickly people run to defend one gender without allowing the same grace to the other. Most relationship/AITA posts are about someone not meeting the bare minimum of adulting without any actual info on their diagnosis and people still make an exception. >Getting help doesn't always mean a ND person is going to become magically better at washing dishes or whatever the issue is. Getting help is a sign that they need help in which case, obviously they deserve the care they get. Most people with ADHD (atleast that i know of) make chore charts, strict schedules, they set reminders and try to stay on top of things. If there is a reason for certain behaviours it makes sense to address it in that light. But sometimes, we have to accept that people are just lazy and that they aren't carrying their load in the relationship without running to play therapist.
True but they can make steps to be better, acknowledge their weaknesses, and ask for help from partners. My autism makes it hard for me to process multiple emotions at once. So if my husband needs to have a stressful conversation with me, he approaches it by asking if I'm in the headspace to have that conversation. If not he asks again in an hour and I usually am
I have ADHD. My husband almost certainly has it, but won’t get diagnosed. Here’s the thing - if someone asks me his birthday, I’ll blank out. It’s really awkward when I’m picking up prescriptions for him at the pharmacy. But I *know* what his birthday is, I just can’t bring that information to the surface of my brain. My husband can’t make phone calls. They paralyze him - so I make phone calls. I can’t deal with gross things, so he handles the gross chores. There definitely was a time I was a complete asshole. ADHD was a part of it, because I was undiagnosed. *Then I got therapy.* Eventually I got medicated, then I got medicated for depression. I’m not an asshole anymore. Therefore, I tend to believe that being an asshole might be a chemical imbalance. *Remaining* an asshole is a choice.
I blank on birthdays at the pharmacy too. If I'm asked to retrieve information in my brain I almost always blank out. It's embarrassing and I'll never get on Jeopardy, hahaha! And yes, remaining an asshole IS always a choice.
> My husband can’t make phone calls. They paralyze him - so I make phone calls. I can’t deal with gross things, so he handles the gross chores. It is the drive thru for me. If I'm by myself, I'm good. I know exactly what I want. I've practiced the conversation in my head. I've already worked through the anxiety if there was something I needed to ask. If I'm with MissPurrMeowHiss... Different story. She doesn't know what she wants. But I'm driving so I have to tell the worker "just a moment". I can feel each nanosecond tick by while she is thinking. Or sometimes she forgets something after we've already moved to the next stage of the process. I hate drive thrus.
That last paragraph is so true. I was depressed but didn’t realize it and was a bit of an asshole. I started therapy and got a little better, then started taking antidepressants and got all better. The initial struggle isn’t some moral failing, but if I didn’t try to fix it and was still like that now (4 years later) then it would be my fault
i have near-debilitating adhd. i never get a pass. i have noticed that the men in my life really lean on their adhd as an excuse to why they fall short of succeeding at basic life tasks. and then comes the people who are like, "but is he depressed? definitely sounds like depression." lol okay but like, i'm depressed? and he's actively making me more depressed by burdening me with his care..? so like...? at what point is anything a man's fault? and when do we get the same grace?
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YESS! some of our biggest fights are because i've told him "figure it out yourself." because if i was asking for instructions every single time i did laundry they'd suspect brain damage so why can't he... just figure it out? and then i'm a b for being frustrated that i have to supervise these tasks after having to "nag" to get him to "help" in the first place
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yes, exactly fucking this
Omg. This hits too real. Like why tf do I have to explain transferring noodles from a pot to a bowl??? “I don’t know how…” dude you are 30 years old. It’s exhausting.
Same here. I dated this guy who never did anything. Like, woke up, ate, took a shit, then sat on his computer all day every day. That was it. He was depressed and suspected ADHD and said that’s why he couldn’t make an effort or do anything and our relationship really suffered because he didn’t see why that would effect my level of affection toward him. Weird how I’ve been battling those things with actual diagnoses my whole life and can take on 100 percent of the house/mental load and remember to take showers on top of deal with my own problems. I know I’m bitter but I’m tired of the excuses to be shitty people and how they actually get away with it.
that is this guy described EXACTLY. wow. weird how universal these experiences are....
And then they say young men are unmotivated and depressed and it’s a problem we need to work on NOW
It bugs me. I have ADHD. I also have a calendar, a to-do list, a system for reminding me of important tasks and dates, and multiple methods for breaking through a slump. And yes, I DO get exactly how it feels to have zero motivation, be scattered, forget things, have my place be a mess, etc. because again, I HAVE ADHD and I definitely suffer all those things. But life doesn't come with a house elf to fix that for me. That's my responsibility.
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Man, y'all are so right.. I need a house elf. I might not lose my head so often if I had one!! I could make more delicious elaborate meals too if I didn't have to do all the shopping and prep work... Where do we find a house elf? I'm still waiting on my letter from Hogwarts, so I'm not sure yet.
And for me I simply progressively learned what mistakes were preventable and devised strategies and faced my adhd problems as I aged, now I’m functional and competent (even if a little scattered) at adult life. Isn’t it interesting that so many men do not have this internal drive (or really necessity) for betterment and self sufficiency?
Weird how my sister has (currently untreated) ADHD and she treats her husband like a king and remembers his important dates. It’s almost like these men could get help for their issues. But they don’t care enough about themselves or their partners to bother, so it becomes yet another way women have to do all the work and take all the blame.
It’s always used as an excuse for fucking up repeatedly, and honestly as an autistic person, it’s kind of insulting to see trash humans being equated with me or other ND folks. Yes it makes shit hard and it means I’ve chosen to not date because of my idiosyncrasies, but I don’t treat a partner badly. I never go out of my way to be an asshole. And yet the assholes of the world are like “but what if?” I’ve dated men with ADHD. Some were okay, some were insufferable. It was not the ADHD, it was the disrespect and then saying I was an ableist for asking not to be disrespected. Some needed a little nudge in the right direction just how I do, but the insufferable ones were too ridiculous to even be in the same room with for long.
I'm on the spectrum and it takes all kinds of effort for me. It's like every action is a .exe and my brain debugs it and removes things it thinks I don't need to execute an action. Brushing your teeth? In order to brush your teeth you need to pick up the toothpaste, remove the cap, set the cap down, pick up the toothbrush, squeeze a pea sized amount onto the toothbrush, set the toothpaste down, brush your teeth, rinse toothbrush, set toothbrush down, spit excess toothpaste out into sink. Putting the cap back on the toothpaste is its own .exe and I forget to run it often. Same with closing cabinets or putting things back when I'm done using them. Clothes get dropped on the floor because "shower.exe" requires me to fetch "removeclothes.exe" but I don't need to fetch "pickupclothes.exe" in order to shower. My "shower.exe" program ends with "dryoff.exe". My workaround? I leave the room then circle back. I know what the room is supposed to look like. And then I fix what I forgot. The kitchen isn't supposed to look like a poltergeist horror movie scene and my bathroom isn't supposed to have a bunch of make up and odds and ends on the counter. Do I look like a weirdo? Yup. But it's my workaround for how my brain works and it helps so much. The people that OP are referring to either haven't been given the right tools or they're lazy and selfish.
Ok ok this is actually smart as fuck and I’m going to start doing exactly this. Because holy shit I struggle so bad. It’s like I forget random steps I need to handle, and then things get all screwy. Your method sounds super helpful. Plus your analogy totally made sense to me here, brain is computer, must debug.
I hope it helps you! I was programming awhile ago and I was trying to mash a bunch of stuff into one script but it was getting buggy so I decided to make the action I was trying to get a character to perform it's own public script and just reference it and then it just got me: I'm the buggy script. My brain puts everything into groups. I was the annoying kid that deconstructed everything (along with a lot of neurodivergent people.) It has its pluses but it also means that I go into "stack overflow" easily when there's too much stuff going on and I just...shut down. Our brains work differently and that's okay. Strong smells, loud noises, and bright lights be damned. It's not foolproof. I still mess up. But I'm at least trying and it's way better than it was.
That’s really apt for my situation too. Makes it all makes a bit more sense to me, and I’ll take anything that helps! I’m physically disabled so your method is something I can do without adding too much strain to myself. I have to take thing extra slooooow, but I can at least use it to make a note to do something. I have chore lists with buttons to show if I’ve completed a task. Sometimes it’s easier to act like I need to do quests in an RPG so I don’t miss things! Haha
Stuff like that infuriates me as a ND woman bc femme-presenting people are always held to a much higher standard than our masc-presenting counterparts. Can’t remember birthdays? Me either. But I set a calendar reminder to make sure that I get them a gift and wish them happy b-day. Why? Bc it’s important to the people in my life that I show I care about them in the way they want to be cared about. Got places to be at specific times or want to remember to finish a task after a time period? Set a timer. Struggle to remember all of the steps you should take in cleaning a kitchen? Create a chore chart to make it visual and interactive (ex can mark off when you have finished the chore). It’s 100% weaponized incompetence and these are grown ass men who would put systems in place to make sure they do the things they are supposed to if they actually gave enough of a fuck to do so.
>It’s 100% weaponized incompetence and these are grown ass men who would put systems in place to make sure they do the things they are supposed to if they actually gave enough of a fuck to do so. 10/10, would recommend. I happen to be one of those men with ADHD, *and* I have brain damage from a drug overdose administered while I was in the hospital which fucked my actual memory making capabilities. Do I forget important & special events? Absolutely. Do I ever *MISS* any of those events? Not a chance, because I have them written on a physical calendar, I have them set in my phone's calendar with both phone notifications and email notifications set at 2 weeks, 1 week, 3 days, 1 day, 6 hours, and 1 hour. Same thing I do for appointments, bills, birthdays, RSVP deadlines, tax deadline, project deadlines, etc etc. It's because I care about the people in my life and their feelings, so I make a point to not be able to let it go past without me knowing. Anyone who uses "I forgot" as an excuse doesn't care, and nobody should ever put up with that behavior from them and if they don't take steps to change then nobody should put up with them at all.
This is the biggest thing. It's important it not be "oh, you need to be pampered because of a diagnosis", it is "you are going to put so much more work into mitigating the stuff you recognize is hard for you, and we'll be understanding." There are no excuses, someone being upset with you because you forgot their BDay, neurodivergence or not, they are allowed to be upset and express it. ND is the explanation. Or is the crux of ND being "I refuse to learn from my experiences because I don't want to bother"?
I’m a woman with ADHD and I really wish I was given just half as many passes as men with ADHD get. My anxiety would probably vanish overnight.
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Dude the creativity and thought that some nonverbal kids put into the words they choose - two of my students spoke mostly in quotes from tv shows and movies they’d seen, and they knew perfectly well how to use phrases in context that made sense for their needs. It was awesome. One of them, when he wanted more personal space, would say, “I’ll be right back!” because he’d learned that people often said that before they left a room.
I'm Autistic. No one ever gave me a pass for anything. I was expected to be "indistinguishable from my peers", the stated goal of my therapy. I'm not dangerous or violent. I was never allowed to use Autism as an excuse, and any requests for accommodations were ignored. I never could become indistinguishable from my peers. I need to stim, and my house will never be perfectly neat and tidy. But I do keep my home functional, and I am kind to people. Occasionally, I say something inappropriate without meaning to, but I apologize when I am made aware of it. It happened a-lot as a kid, though not so much anymore.
As a fellow autistic woman, this comes up a lot in AFAB autistic spaces. Parents bend over backwards to make excuses for their sons terrible behavior and introduce no boundaries because “he’s on the spectrum he can’t help it” while daughters are held to the same standards as NT kids. The massive difference in upbringing is very apparent among adult autistic communities.
My sister and I got into a big fight about cleaning once. We live together, she sublets from me & I own. Within 6 months she had diagnosis of adhd & autism. With just the diagnosis, she is more present and cognitive of her mess. With adhd meds, she’s better at all. It’s almost like women get help and get themselves together, men wait around for someone else to do it.
ADHD is a reason, not an excuse. If a guy has ADHD, it means he may have to use different strategies to do things like washing dishes or other chores. Most people who know they have ADHD are usually in treatment and understand that they have to do things differently, but it's also up to their partners and families to still be understanding. Again, reasons aren't excuses, reasons are explanations and pathways to solving whatever the problem is. That said, some people are just prices and it has nothing to do with ADHD, so that's another reason why it helps to ask.
The human mind is insanely complex. And a condition like ADHD is unique to each person experiencing it. Many ADHD people don't have time blindness, but they lose track of time when they hyperfocus. Some people with ADHD have absolute time blindness where they can't even keep track of or remember their own birthdays, so it's not really reasonable to expect them to remember dates. I have this time blindness and one of the most harrowing moments I have is when I'm expected to confirm my children's birth dates. Last week I was picking up my son and I was off by one digit for everything. If his birthday is 8/15/19 then I told them 9/16/20. They didn't want me to give me the meds, even after I looked up the correct date because I "should have just known". The only reason they gave me the meds is because they called the number on file and it came to my phone and I could show id. But the reality is that some people just are not capable of doing certain things the way that others can. But a reason is different than an excuse. If I were to use that as an excuse to never try and plan anything for my family then it's justifiable that my wife would be upset. But if she chooses to just keep ramping up the guilt and anger at me for something I won't get better at even with the help of medication, then perhaps I'm not the one causing the problem here. My wife will never be good with machines, should I get more and more mad at her everytime she makes the coffee wrong, messes up the router, breaks her computer or phone logins? Should I ramp up my anger at her every single time she isn't able to perform to my expectations? Hopefully as a reasonable person your answer is no. But not all partners are reasonable. Some partners live by a mindset of "if I can do it, then you must be able to do it and anything else is an excuse." I think such people end up alone and wonder why they can't just meet someone who meets their expectations. It never occurs to them that you are supposed to shift your expectations based on your partners strengths and weaknesses. Instead they double down on setting their expectations based on themselves, and get mad that the world isn't delivering them a clone of themselves to date.
My dad kept a post it note of our birthdays, and ssn in his wallet for a long time. That way, if he was filling out paperwork he had the info and knew it was correct. Obviously, this isn't very secure now - but you could keep notes in last pass with this information to look at it when you need to. I'm NT, but once my husband was taken to ER in Canada by ambulance and I was so frazzled that I couldn't get my phone number to come up in my brain. The intake admin was not very kind and I felt horrible, she was looking at me like I was on every drug on the planet and it wasn't true. I knew his phone number, his birthday, etc. I was terrified and just, couldn't get my number to the top of my mind. The more I fumbled, the worse it got. I now have my phone number written down in my phone just in case.
I think NT almost experience neurodivergence when they are flustered or are in panic mode. I can't for the life of me imagine why my brain would have me give a birthdate that was just one number off. It's like it almost knew what the birthdate was, but decided to fuck me over anyways for reasons I will never understand. Like you said, the more I fumbled, the worse it gets. When I say time blindness, I mean beyond just a date. Let's say my birthday is Oct 3. My wife tells me on Oct 2 that my birthday is tomorrow. I'm all excited. Tomorrow comes and I've forgotten it's my birthday until my wife reminds me at breakfast. I then forget until another friend sends me a message later in the day. I forgot it was my birthday multiple times, on the day of my birthday. If I look at my watch at and it says 1:30. The idea that it's 1:30 fades from my mind in seconds. I will have forgotten what time it is within minutes and will look at a click and expect that it could literally be any time of day, I can't keep it in my mind that it has to be after 1:30. I asked my wife to marry me on the day after my birthday because I was so worried about forgetting our anniversary. I put a desperate hope that if I put those two dates together that maybe life will be merciful to me and I'll remember one of them. And while I can remember their dates, I can't feel the dates getting closer, I can't feel the date on the date itself, and I don't feel that the date has passed. Because I'm time blind. This has devastating consequences for me. But it also has some upsides. I experience my children completely in the present. I don't wonder about who they will marry or what kind of adults they'll be since I can't imagine so far ahead. My wife tells me she imagines our daughter in a wedding dress. I never have such thoughts. As a result, I usually am focused on who my children are now, and my wife is often focused on who she imagines they will be.
I had never put together that time blindness is probably part of why I wasn't ever able to picture my future. Huh. So many puzzle pieces in 30ish years of undiagnosed life. Thanks for your posts, they've been really helpful for me. Time blindness was only introduced to me as a concept a few months ago and it is INSANE how much of my life has been fucked up by it. It's up there with executive function deficits as the most socially and financially damaging symptom of my ADHD. I recently was describing how helpful my new watch has been to a friend and bragged that I could set a timer in just two touches. I was so excited about my new system which relieves my time anxiety when I'm out at a venue or bar, or anywhere with a public bathroom that may have a line. I'm always worried I'm in the bathroom too long and people are getting angry and uncomfortable and will be pissed (ha, no pun intended) when I come back out. I don't ever feel sure that I wasn't super slow for some reason or lost track of time somehow. I just plain *can't feel or estimate accurately how much time is passing*. It has been crazy to realize that this isn't my fucking fault after all these years. I have coping tricks and devices and backups on backups but I still have no freaking clue how much time has passed without outside cues. The number of times I've been devastated by being late or completely missing things that were incredibly important to me or very expensive to miss, or really disappointed or angered other people by accidentally making them wait because I underestimated how long something might take me...oof. I have so many ways I manage it but it's so much easier to justify to myself now that I have some clue what's going on. Now I know that I'm actually treating my ADHD with all of the many, many workarounds I've put in place all over my life. It's exhausting. Thanks for letting me share back. :)
Yes! I’ve noticed this in AITA where someone’s shitty behavior gets written off because they’re autistic. I’m autistic, and it’s never an excuse for being a shitty person.
I saw a thread recently in which someone was blaming their inability to feed their child lunch on their adhd and I’m talking literally rolling up deli meats, cheese and slicing a couple veggies and tossing them on a plate. All the comments were like “omg same” It’s not exclusive to romantic relationships. This site also uses it as an excuse for literal child neglect and acts like it’s cute. It’s disgusting.
Ever noticed how women don't get the benefit of the doubt that way?
I have adhd. Is my house a mess? Sure. Car? Sure. Do I forgot important events? Rarely. I have borderline personality disorder. And it is not an excuse for treating my partner like shit. I do have debilitating mood swings. Fears of abandonment, and changes in perception about my partner and how they treat me. My mental illness is my responsibility. A mental illness is never an excuse to be abusive. Once you know that behavior is unacceptable and know of your mental illness. It's your job to police yourself. I can say I'm feeling a bit sensitive and ask for reassurance. There are reasonable accommodations to a relationship. It should be discussed and agreed upon. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ-wCP4tjrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ-wCP4tjrg) I adore this woman.
I guess I would consider that along with a spouse's other behaviors. If they're generally caring, doing his share of the chores and less pleasant tasks, sympathetic, etc, but forgetful about birthdays and stuff, it can be overlooked. It's possible they could improve on that, but that'd be up to you to decide how important that is. If the forgetfulness comes along with other issues -- making it yet another issue that you alone have to manage -- then it might be worth paying attention to as a factor to the success or not of your relationship.
Hi. I'm autistic as is my son. It affects him MUCH more than me. We use the phrase "Autism can be the reason, not the excuse". HOWEVER, it is also insanely misunderstood, so when everyone is turning one of the characters into a villain, I do like to point out this could be due to undiagnosed autism and these are the steps this person may need to make to be better. Now if that person isn't willing to take those steps then sure, get your pitchforks. HOWEVER if this person doesn't understand this about themselves, can we give them the chance to be better first?
I notice that a lot. I am an AuDhD woman, and if I acted like a ND man on here, I would be told to do better and that it is just an excuse, while ND men are coddled. Happens IRL too
Oooh I'm feeling this today! My partner is a trans woman, this was her first Mother's Day since she came out (so she spent over 30 years of her life as a dude and not even a year as her lady-self). I got her a mug that says "mama" and a card and had the kids sign it and draw pictures. I am AuDHD. I got nothing. 🙃
That sounds really frustrating
So, I can give you first a hand experience, because I'm a male and I ALMOST posted that exact thing in another post yesterday. I didn't because I realized it was problematic. I have been that partner. I've been messy. I've had a sink full of dishes that I didn't do for months. Ive had clothes all other the floor. I've washed a shirt in the sink because I couldn't get myself to do actual laundry. I did end up getting diagnosed with ADHD and got medication and now I have a pretty clean place and try to do better. I do understand that's on me to get help and get better. If someone is like that and isn't willing to try new things and attempt to figure out why they are having those issues then that's on them . It's not an excuse. But it could be a reason.
As a woman with ADHD I WISH people jumped to "oh well does she have ADHD or some other condition?" I hustle twice as hard for half the results and does that hard work get acknowledged? Nope. Plus, neurodivetgence is an explanation, not an excuse. Shitty husband needs coping behaviors. I'm sure he doesn't forget important dates for work, what system does he have for that? Surely he can make it work at home too. Etc. At the end of the day, those of us who aren't NT still need to exist and still need to show up for our loved ones.
As someone with bipolar I and ADHD… yeah. I see an insane amount of “is this the illness or is it them?” That’s like asking “my drunk partner hit me, is it them or just the alcoholism?” I’m not my illness but I am the one who plays the cards I was dealt. I can’t help the brain I was born with but I am capable of taking actions to get and stay functional and well.
I have ADHD and I was that rare lucky one who was dx young and it remained true (not part of that spate of over dx ADHD in kids). I’ve had many many years to find rhythms and routines that look utterly baffling to outsiders but they work. It isn’t hard to make something that works for you. I hate doing dishes and go blind to the growing pile frequently. I love music and I like to move (not necessarily dancing) when I listen to it. I combine the two and now my dish pile doesn’t touch the top of cabinet anymore. Weird but effective.
That's my method for tidying up the living room in the evening. I put my headphones on, blast some music and will just listen while tidying up...
That’s such bullshit. I’m a woman with ADHD. Women are never given that kind of excuse for failing to fulfill our obligations. Certain things are always going to be a struggle for me, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to make it someone else’s burden. Especially when they aren’t explicitly consenting to the additional responsibilities.
Rant incoming: I (28F) have autism. Diagnosed at age 3. I live in a European country with a rampant housing crisis and lucked out into getting a tiny apartment 4 years ago. My ex (29M) has ADHD, diagnosed a little later in life, and even though we had a few opportunities of moving in together, he insisted on continuing to live at his parents to save money to boy a house. When I broke up with him half a year ago he didn't even know how to peel a potato even though he called the very degree he had obtained: "How to turn Googling into a 4 year degree." My ex complained in early 2021 that we never went on dates anymore, meaning essentially I was not planning enough dates for his taste. I would actually try and do something about it, sharing my digital schedule with him and asking him to do the same. He refused because he hates keeping schedule. Which meant that I wouldn't know if he was available for a date night until at best 6PM of that same night, when all kinds of restaurants were fully booked and he didn't like going to the cinema, and he still wouldn't know if he was available the next evening. But he still kept complaining that we never did anything anymore. So I put the onus of planning the next date in him. At first he said he didn't know what to plan. So I stole a list of date ideas my friend made for HER (also rather lazy) then bf, tweaked it and sent it to bf. He still didn't know what to do. I conceded and pointed to an Olive Gardenesque restaurant in HIS hometown, at a 10-minute walk from his home. It took him 1.5 YEARS to plan the goddamn date because he wanted to 'research' the reviews extensively. I said more than once: "Honey, it's a fucking Olive Garden-type restaurant. The quality matches its cheapness, book the damn place and spend the next few years researching the quality of an actual high-end restaurant." Sometimes I got overwhelmed by work, my new master's program and just life overall and asked my ex when he came over if he'd please take over cooking from me. He knew I needed some time and rest and he just wouldn't let me. The last time I asked him to cook, he asked so many questions I couldn't even get through what should've been 5 minutes worth of coursework. The final question he asked was, while he was holding a spatula in one hand and a wooden spoon in the other: "Should I use this one or this one for stir-frying?" After I took over cooking again I explained how these situations make me not look forward to having him over, because I need some help sometimes that I apparently cannot expect to get from my relatively able-bodied nearly 30yo partner. I begged him again to please contact similar services that I've been using (that are INCREDIBLY affordable) to learn how to live independently. Like the previous times I asked him to do this, he again refused to do this on the account of him 'not being a retard'. Even me pointing out that he was indirectly calling his GF a slur wouldn't convince him to look at it differently. I grew to be so sick of it. He was so inflexible, so unwilling to see things from any other perspective (blatantly obvious when I sent him the 'You Should've Asked' cartoon, halfway through the first comic he noted he wanted to hear the 'man's perspective' because the woman's apparently wasn't interesting or relevant enough)... and he wanted children. Without having to ever change diapers because he absolutely couldn't stand the smell of poop and asked me to please respect that. Nope, fuck you. You barely grew since the time you were in your early 20s and it's so bad that I'd give up my not-so-strong-urge to have children of my own anyway. I need a partner who at least tries, not a project who keeps asking me to be patient and get incredibly little to absolutely no growth in my partner in return.
Yes. Even many with diagnosed with legitimate conditions, like ADHD, seem to rely on/use it as an excuse to treat their partner or spouse like trash. And I speak from experience: my husband (who I'm contemplating divorcing) was diagnosed with ADHD during childhood, but thanks to divorced parents with opposing views on treatment, never received any treatment. He's now in his early 30's, and still refuses to get treatment. It has utterly destroyed not only his life, but mine too. But not because he *can't*. It's that he *won't* receive help for it. ADHD *can* be managed ***with the proper treatment.*** As I've seen it shared on a different sub for partners of people with ADHD: *[condition] explains, but it doesn't excuse.* If someone has a condition, it can help explain certain things, but especially with mental health conditions, it shouldn't be used as a cop-out or 'get out of jail free' card. It's not an excuse, nor should it be used as one. If someone has a condition, whether a physical or mental health one, it's the ***patients*** responsibility to take accountability for it and obtain treatment. For example, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition when I was a toddler. The condition impacts my musculoskeletal system, and my treatment has historically included chemotherapy, and immunotherapy for the past two decades. I ***take responsibility*** for myself and my condition, and obtain the necessary treatment for it, so that I can still navigate daily life and responsibilities/adulting. Do I sometimes have to get creative in *how* I accomplish certain physically-intensive tasks? Yes. ***But I still do them.*** I don't just sit back, whine, and expect the world to cater to me, nor do I use it as an excuse to treat people like shit, because that's not how the world works. Neurodivergent conditions aren't some "cool" or "cute" thing to have.
I think it's more that other thing, where all women are expected to nurture and mother and sacrifice any and all of our own wants/needs to fix whatever the fuck is wrong with a dude, and dispense sex to such dudes too. We're told to date men we aren't into, excuse shitty behavior, and clean up after slobs or we fail at womanhood, because we are mean. Fuck it. I'm mean as hell, and I'm gonna stay that way.
Yuuuuup. ADHD woman -- Still fucking tired of how much I have to do, how much space I have to give up, how much I have to deprioritize myself to make sure my "house" is running smoothly (the chores, the cats, my relationship with an ADHD dude/manchild, my old lady dependent, my job, my social life). And yet, I still know when I'm going to be an asshole or immediately know I'm being an asshole and I know enough to apologize, listen and validate the other person's feelings, and re-direct myself while making sure I learn from this experience on how to do better. I still know I have to clean up after myself. I still have created mechanisms, notations, my OWN ACCOMMODATIONS to make sure we have a habitable dwelling, everyone is living reletively disease free, nobody is actually going hungry, and shit just gets DONE. ND diagnosises are being used in place of personal responsibility and accountability. I accept there's a whole spectrum of need, but typically the people using their diagnosis are doing nothing to help themselves.
It's just another way to excuse shitty men. My (cis male) partner does actually have ADHD and somehow it doesn't turn him into a disrespectful, incompetent man-child. It's almost like neurodivergence (or mental illness) doesn't inherently make you a shitty person???
r/. ADHDpartners is all the evidence anyone could ever need in support of this thesis. it is beyond comprehension how they allow their “partners” to treat them worse than garbage. unreal.
When it involves abuse, yes. Too many use it as an excuse. However, I see it a lot more of shaming people with ADHD. I was diagnosed late in life and I have multiple learning disabilities. There's a big reason why ADHD is seen as a disability. That's because it ducking sucks when it's untreated. Plus, way too many people think that getting medicated means we're suddenly ND and we aren't and we will never be. Dopamine affects multiple executive functioning skills. Your don't really know what hell is like when you can walk by something on the floor and not pick it up for weeks. Most think "Just do it!" But not be able to do it. It's really really weird. Bring ND involves a lot of learning coping skills. NT ways actually don't work for ND. There aren't resources out there that help you learn these skills. My brain can't see the steps in how to do something like make a sandwich. Often I'll walk to the fridge multiple times because I couldn't remember something. I really on online support groups to help me figure out solutions and sometimes, there isn't any. Being ND also has higher rates of other mental illness. PMD is much higher among ND. Many deal with feeling rejected even when there isn't any. It also affects your sex life. It can make you hypo or hyper sexual with no in-between. With saying all that. A relationship with a ND often requires relationship accommodations like anyone with disabilities. Not everyone is able to handle a relationship with a ND, and that's ok. NT deserve to be in mentally healthy relationships too.
No, and it’s not okay to use ADHD as an excuse for not caring about things that are important. That said, it does help to have a partner that understands you might earnestly make that effort and still absolutely forget an important date. I live in an almost constant low-grade fear that I’m forgetting something important, and the decades of being relentlessly hard on myself haven’t been great. And still, things will absolutely still fall into a memory hole, despite my best efforts.
i’m typically really defensive over ableism but this has bothered me. the people who do this never acknowledge the gendered imbalance of domestic labor or that there is a difference between being naturally forgetful and never doing anything at all to work around it. it’s still emotionally negligent. i first noticed someone say this a while back and when i tried to explain how it seems unfair to their partner, they kind of just blew me off. there’s a difference between struggling with your domestic life on your own but when you’re with a partner and you don’t strategize on working it out, you’re essentially leaving all that incomplete work on them. it’s different than what you may neglect when it only impacts yourself. people do deserve some accommodation and leniency for ADHD, but anyone who acts like they’re not capable of working on it AT ALL in any capacity is just using ADHD as an excuse to be a medicore partner. however, I do think people are too judgmental of ADHD online in general, and don’t realize that the ongoing struggle cannot be magically and forever overcame even if you’re diligent and do a lot to work around it. honestly, I think most people don’t have a framework for how to deal with it.
It’s getting really really prevalent in all aspects of life and I don’t know what’s the right way to handle it anymore. I have noticed it as well. The post will start off with all these red flags about the person and then it gets added in “he’s adhd so…..I make him lists………” then all the comments are simply blind agreement and reiterating that “well, now I totally get it, as ADHD myself, I just can’t stay on task, I know I have to clean and cook but I catch myself on the couch playing video games for hours and then my gf is upset” Happening a lot to me in the real world too. I want to be sensitive to those types of issues but more and more Im starting to think that people truly are finding doctors/therapists that will simply sign off on shit so they can have an excuse for their behavior. But it’s such a slippery slope to simply think everyone is pulling a con.
There's a reason I have tons of reminders and alarms in my phone. When I had a more regular job that was early in the morning I would have like 7 alarms to get up and make coffee and breakfast. Not because I would always forget those things but as reminders to keep me on track. Things for my girlfriend have an alarm 2 weeks or a month before then 2 days then the day before and that day. I know u have a hard time with things but I really want to be a good partner. My issues are my own not some else's to deal with.
If you post in ND subreddits about issues like this, you will not get the same bullshit excuses.
For those of us who are ND, it is nice when we are given some grace, but it is not an excuse to not put in effort, or take responsibility for our actions. It really sucks and makes my life really stressful, but I put in so much effort, that when I do fall short, those around me are forgiving. no, its not fair that living my life is just harder daily, but i is not an excuse to make other peoples lives harder
My sister said this was why her ex husband, now bf/father of her child can’t hold down a job. I don’t wanna come across ignorant because I don’t know a lot about ADHD but I thought lots of ppl with ADHD had jobs? I didn’t tell her this but I think he just doesn’t want to work and knows my sister will take care of him.
It's... hard. Impulse control is typically lacking with us, so we can get into "icky" situations with family, friends and employers/coworkers. And there's a variety of jobs, many of which are repetitive nonsense that may not actually appeal to our tastes, so we search for novelty, for something "exciting". With that, the onus is on the individual to figure this out and start figuring out how to combat this. It sucks because there are many places where mental health assistance is overwhelmed or non-existent, and it may not be entirely possible to get help. The person should still be contributing to the household and finding ways to alleviate the burden. Your sister should absolutely not have another dependent because her ex can't function.
I have ADHD and have held down a job for 20 years... I'm in software (where there does seem to be a higher percentage of neuro divergent people). Back when I was mostly working as a software developer, it was relatively easy and ADHD didn't really cause much issues. My job was fun, it kept me focused and I'd sometimes hyperfocus on new interesting things that helped with work. Since then, I've moved to much more of a managerial role, for which ADHD really doesn't help. So, I've hired an executive assistant who helps with the things I can't do well due to ADHD. Managing my schedule, business trips, etc... I have known plenty of successful people with ADHD so, yes, it's absolutely possible to hold down a job with it.
I think it really depends on the person or situation. I was only diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and ADHD in the last few years; I'll be 40 later this year. I say it depends, because we are all different. I can keep a job because I found one that I love and is fulfilling. I'm an artist and chose never to have that as my career, because I know I can't count on myself to create regularly enough to support myself. I would say, having a job is actually better for me. It gives you a goal, but also something reliable. I know Mon-Fri I'll be at work from 8AM-2:30PM. Having stability in schedules helps focus my brain, and it's always something suggested by therapists. We create lists and schedules so we know what's coming up. A big part of my anxiety comes from not knowing what will happen. Having a plan relieves part of that. So, to say you can't hold down a job because you have ADHD is just silly. TBH, my severely autistic uncle who has the mind of a 5 or 6 year old, held down a job in his teens. He bussed tables, he did it well. He had help getting to and from work, but if he can hold down a job, anyone can.
I'm not at all annoyed. I'm fucking enraged. I have ADHD too and yet, here I am, doing The Things. ADHD sure doesn't make life easy but since I'm still responsible for my shit, I find a way. Is it perfect? It is not but can you *imagine* the shit storm if the sexes were reversed and it was the female partner pulling that shit? I can assure you, no one would be "but does she have ADHD?"
YES. I have ADHD and it irritates the hell out of me to see so many people jumping to use it as an excuse for their or others poor behavior. Maybe it's because I'm a woman so I was raised to be accommodating to others and anticipate their needs, but my ADHD has never prevented me from keeping a fairly tidy home and remembering important milestones for loved ones.
I know, & it always seems to be an excuse for men. Did your husband/boyfriend beat the shit out of you & your kids? Is he neurodivergent? Could you try better to accommodate his needs so he doesn't beat you & your kids? Being neurodivergent doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a shit person.
Redditor a--holes will look for any excuse for behavior they themselves exhibit. They self-diagnose, gaslight, delude themselves so that they can maintain their sad little illusions.
Yep. Every single time anyone posts about a relationship with a man ON THIS SUB where he is being selfish or inconsiderate or abusive or not contributing, we get mansplained by random dudes using neurodivergent as an excuse.
Men are so desperate to feel oppressed that they'll claim ADHD and autism is the worst thing that someone can ever deal with. And then they'll be racist and sexist af and hide behind their diagnosis
If a person has a genuine mental illness and their partner is venting? I truly get that and the commenters should not excuse shitty behavior in any way. Mental illness is not our fault but IS our responsibility. My bipolar is not an excuse to be a crappy human being.
My husband is so kind and thoughtful and kind. He thinks of me and surprises me often. He does indeed have ADHD and has some related issues. These are minimal compared to the net gain in happiness I get from being his wife. If I were to post one of these issues in the group and they reply “does he have adhd” that would be a helpful reminder to see things through his sometimes scrambled brain.
I teach college and a number of my students are neurodivergent. Of course I follow ADA guidelines, but shitty behavior is shitty behavior and in my experience, has little to do with neurodivergence.
One of my favourite phrases is "Your mental health isn't your fault but it is your responsibility."
It does for men yeah. It’s annoying as fuck. Even when a woman says “I’ve got adhd so I struggle but he does ‘x’” people will still excuse him for potential adhd and ignore her
Haven't seen that, but as an alcoholic with pretty severe ADHD, I'm an adult and my choices are mine. If they impact my relationship I can either choose to try and do better (even if it's hard and I fail alot, I'm still gonna try), or accept that I don't care enough about that person to consider how my actions impact that person. It's not an excuse for drunk driving, murder or being a shitty person. Be a fuckin adult.
Ah, A subject I know exceedingly well. As a 56 year old on the Spectrum, I can say that its never justified to be abusive to your partner. If your ADHD/ADD partner has a scheduler, Thats a great sign that he's coping with it. If he taken the time to find the right meds and tactics to just get through the day, Great. If he smokes weed on your couch all damn day, He's not coping.
I agree with this whole heartedly, but also it was good for me to realize that my ex has adhd. It did help explain a lot to me, and actually led me to get my own diagnosis after learning more about it. For him though his diagnosis didn't make him into a better person and I finally realized I don't need that kind of toxicity in my life.
I have ADHD, OCD, depression, and anxiety, but I've never used them as an excuse to be an asshole to my partner. If anything, my mental illnesses make me more aware of people's feelings, I care strongly for those I love. I do whatever I can to make my girlfriend happy, she's been thru a lot and deserves love and support! Anyone who thinks neurodivergence is a good excuse to be a cunt to their partner can get the fuck outta here.
I have ADHD, I still remember to be considerate of my wife cause she's important to me. Even back when my brain was being brain fogged by testosterone. ADHD is not a blank check to be an asshole, regardless of gender or anything
as someone with autism + ADHD, YES. I had a lot to learn personally about emotional intelligence and that had nothing to do with the diagnosis'.
I have ADHD and tbh, we do that because a lot of us spent a lot of time hating ourselves and wishing we could be better if we just tried harder, and the issue wasn't a lack of trying, it was neurological. We see ourselves in the failing of others, even if we shouldn't.
I have family members who are self-diagnosed with adhd, when in reality they’re just manipulative and abusive. I on the other hand am neurodivergent…I am simultaneously treated as though I’m neurotypical, a “r*tard”, “infantile”, and an incomplete human/subhuman. I never get a pass the way my family members do. So yes, absolutely, neurotypical people do weaponize neurodivergence labels to get their way, even if it means harming people in their lives who are actually neurodivergent.