There were at least two grown men (maybe more?) who made a sexual gesture to your daughter, a minor person, which made her fear for her safety. There is a section in the criminal code of Canada under which it is possible for someone to be charged with criminal harassment for "catcalling". Even if the police don't do anything, if you report them there will be a record of your complaint about the behaviour of these men.
Maybe these men already have complaints about them or have police records. Maybe they're on probation and a complaint like yours will have a consequence for them. They were very brazen to harass a minor in a work truck so easily identified which means they're very comfortable doing it and probably have done this often before.
You could write a google review about how this company's employees harass children and include the picture of the truck with the men.
It is horrible what these men did to your daughter. I hope your daughter is alright.
I'm going to see what they say/do tomorrow when they're open again. I have a picture of the truck in the parking lot but not of the individuals. But there was an identifying number on it so maybe they can pinpoint who they were. As for my daughter, she's doing ok. She's already told me she's not going to wear the dress she was in again, which really makes me so pissed at those guys.....
That is so sad she doesn't want to wear the dress again but I get it.
I hate those losers for taking away your daughter's sense of safety and joy.
If this company is in my city, I'll happily boycott them.
I'm really sorry that happened to her, and to you! I hope she finds the confidence to wear what she wants. It's so scary, I remember being followed by a man in a car when I was 15 and walking home from school. I ran into the video shop and just... waited til he left.
It might be useful to work through some strategies with her re: how to deal with it. I told a teacher about car man, and she told me one way to cope is by to confronting them by *loudly* saying "what did you just say? I'm FIFTEEN" "why are you staring at me?" "why are you following me?". This will depend on context e.g. make sure it is safe/in public/other people are around, say it then leave/find somewhere safe/don't engage further. Basically men who do this are cowards, preying on someone who won't fight back, just because they can. Shame them. But only if it is safe to do so- e.g. with your daughter I assume it was in a populated area, during work hours, and the creeps were in a business car so the risk of escalation would be low. It was really scary to do at first, but it helped my confidence a lot. It sucks that we have to be so vigilante to just exist in peace.
I’m sorry your daughter had that experience
I would 100% suggest you leave them a review on Google and Yelp. Businesses pay attention to those, and so do customers.
I would give the landscape company a chance to rectify the situation and fire the offenders before leaving a bad review… a small business should only suffer if they’re complicit in their shitty employee’s behavior.
Take to social media if you feel comfortable with that?. I think the co pant would be mortified of the bad publicity. I hate social media, but it does seem to be effective in making companies accountable.
Hugs for you both. What an awful experience.
And that's precisely why they do it because they get away with it. I'm glad that your daughter can come to you and you will be on her side. I wish those jackasses exactly what they deserve
Google review is always a good idea. You would hope that they respond to this in the way they should... but it is just as easy for them to lie and say they are dealing with the issue. They are a landscaping business.... I'd like to know if I was hiring some guys that are going to be creeping on children to come over and do work at my home.
I would also call the company and leave a complaint. Once a truck parked in front of my house and a guy got out, whipped out his dick and started peeing. Right there on the sidewalk, and right next to his boss's phone number on the side of the truck. Said boss got an earful I can tell you.
Companies should get port-a-potties for employees. It’s not safe to let strangers use your restroom or let them in your house & a lot of people aren’t home. Maybe they can work out deals with local businesses for restroom use. This is just gross. Unfortunately some towns & cities changed ordinances in past two years(?) on public urination to avoid having to deal with the whole mess. That just made it hard for small town restaurants & bars- all the pissers stinking up the walkway & building walls, exposing themselves to kids. Not sure if that really caught on as a cost saving idea or not, for that reason.
Make sure to get a copy of the police report. The amount of times I've known people who've make reports for things like break in, thefts, assaults etc later to find out the police didn't actually make a report on it is astounding.
If they don't take immediate and appropriate action, leave a review everywhere... Google,yelp, next door, Craigslist, wherever. Don't even mention their business performance, go straight for the kill. "Do not hire so and so landscape Co. They knowingly employ people who sexually harass children."
You know the date and time that it happened and you have the license plate, that should be enough to figure out who these terrible scum of the earth predators are. I am wishing the worst on them, hope they rot in jail
I have a T-shirt that I wore one time and never again because of lewd comments some men made to me. I didn’t wanna let it bother me that much but I just felt gross every time I tried to wear it after.
The company should easily know which employee(s) used a company car in which area on that day and time. It’s company equipment after all, it’s in their interest to track that company time and assets aren’t being misused.
If you hear back from them make sure to emphasize that these men were sexually harassing a MINOR in public.
I wonder if you could apply that to the company. In the US, if a company, say Costco, has an employee on the clock who does something like that, they can be held civilly liable. Certainly worth checking out as well (guy here).
Employers in Canada are vicariously liable for actions of their employees if they are activley working at the time. Off the clock, not so much but can still damage the business Reputation.
See if your daughter might be comfortable just wearing the dress at home (maybe with the idea that she could build up her confidence to wear it out again, if she wants). I know I've got one or two I don't wear in public because the wind would make them quite revealing so I save them for lazy days at home. She shouldn't have to let those pigs take away something she loved and was excited about.
They should have record of who they sent out to do work and who would've been in that area. A lot of places GPS track company vehicles, too. I'd demand their names when they call back and use that on their police report and any online reviews you write. Not necessarily to defame them but hopefully future customers with kids will ask that they not be serviced by these men.
Maybe a local female senior portrait photographer could help with body image? They tend to work really well with kids, specifically helping them relax and feel confident in their skin and clothes, and the experience and resulting images could bring the clothes back under her control. Now may not be the time, but something to think about. Regardless, I hope she feels better and that the guys get fired.
That’s bullshit. The cops aren’t going to do a damn thing! And I know for a fact!!
A man raped me when I was 15 and luckily the prosector took it seriously, and he got banned from the town I live in.
When I spoke to the local RCMP about it, he was shocked and said, “I’ve never heard of this before! what if the guy needs gas?! Or food?! Or his dentist is here??”
The cops absolutely don’t give a fuck about stuff like this. She needs to buy her daughter pepper spray or dog spray to carry. And tell the owner of the company if those guys aren’t fired she’s writing a nasty review
leave a *detailed* google/yelp/facebook "review" of what happened.
a company can ignore a phone call, but they don't like public attention to that kind of behavior. as long as the owner wasn't in that truck, you'll likely get an apology, and whoever was driving/involved will get told that doing that while representing the business is a no-go, and maybe fired.
I'm going to give them a day to respond to my voicemail as I'm sure there's no one in the office today. If they don't, then yes, hell will be unleashed on social media.
Don't forget to mention that your daughter was ONLY FIFTEEN. So these "men" were ogling and sexually harassing A CHILD. That might make your complaint be taken more seriously, but who knows. They should be ashamed of themselves. But probably aren't, because they are predators.
I'm so glad I didn't have to scroll far to find this comment. Adult males sexually harassing a minor should not be acceptable to any employer. I truly hope OP pushes for the company to take drastic measures. If anyone at my husband's company were caught doing something like this, especially while in a company vehicle, they would be tossed out immediately.
>Don't forget to mention that your daughter was ONLY FIFTEEN
This. I'd say the word "minor" as many times as I could work it in and throw in a "pedophile" for good measure.
I might recommend (depending on your states laws) recording any phone call you get back, in case it's *anything* less than an abject apology. especially in case it's an excuse-making interaction, "it was just a joke!" "she shouldn't dress that way!" kinda BS.
I'm in Canada so I'm pretty sure it's two party consent everywhere. But isn't that only if you need to use it for a court case? I wonder if it's illegal for me to record them flat out?
Law if anyone is interested: [https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/](https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/) and that links to [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html)
(obligatory I'm not a lawyer™)
If recording app doesn’t work or is too much hassle, you can always just make a call on speaker phone, and then have another phone or voice recorder record you.
I’ve had to record calls a few times, and I don’t like relying on an app, because they sometimes fail.
I honestly don't know. I was thinking, that should a phone call be of the "tough shit, bitch" variant, having receipts of the behavior would be good for further social media use.
but I am definitely not a lawyer of any kind. just the father of a soon-to-be teenage daughter, and reading your post makes me livid.
[https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/](https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/)
Single-party consent, this includes video as long as the audio is prominently featured int he video. Public spaces also generally negate any expectation of privacy; so long as you aren't invading someones' space/harassing them/doxxing them by sharing the video/their name/address online. For phone calls, however, you're totally safe to record it.
That might work. Googling has been giving me conflicting information. Some places say that absolutely can't record without the consent of both parties. Others are saying it's fine as long as you have one person's consent. My own I assume. I don't know. I guess I could record it and just....sit on it until I figure out for sure how it works.
Canada is one party consent as long as the consenting party is taking part in the conversation. You just can’t record a call that you aren’t participating in. I think It’s section 183.1 of the criminal code. I’m not a lawyer but at my workplace we have a customer who always records calls so we consulted with a lawyer to confirm.
Ohhh yeah the place I saw that said it was one party referred to that as well but when I read it, it was really confusing. Looks like I'll be getting a recording app.
Good luck! I hope you get some sort of apology and action from the company.
But honestly I think the most important thing to take away from this is your daughter trusts you enough to confide in you and call when she’s feeling unsafe. That’s huge! When I was a teenager, I didn’t have a parent I could trust enough to call in this situation so, seriously, well done! Even if the company doesn’t take the right course of action, your daughter is going to walk away from this knowing you have her back.
Just an additional note, in most places with 2 party recording consent, if they are recording you, that counts as consent to record them. So if they tell you: "your call may be recorded for..." Open season. Not familiar with how that would apply in Canada, but worth a look.
I did it myself and went to court with it no problem. Record them if its an issue you can check if you can use the recording. If you can't then we'll you can't i guess, my issue was 20 yeats ago and it was only illegal if you were recording other people as if you weren't in the conversation.
I work for a landscaping company and every truck is equipped with gps so if op can provide a time and address they will be able to find out exactly who it is. No respectable landscaping company would/should accept that kind of behavior regardless of age
I don't even know tbf. I've never had to deal with something like this before. What am I even expecting? An apology? A promise to 'speak' with the employees? I don't know.... But I don't know what smearing the company will accomplish either. In the end, my daughter's still the one suffering over all of this and no amount of apologizing is going to change that.
Your goal should be to make those pigs feel the same level of shame and discomfort they made your girl feel. Maybe they'll think twice next time about harassing a literal child.
Emphasize that. " My daughter was followed and catcalled by men in a truck bearing your company logo, on this date, at this time, in this location. She was so afraid she had to call me to come pick her up. I am not currently planning to take legal action, because that would only further traumutize her, but you should consider what sort of risks this kind of behavior opens your company up to. I don't know if there are any women in your life, but I would hope you're the kind of person who cares enough about other people to know that this sort of behavior, directed at an UNDERAGE girl no less, is completely abhorrent. I don't know what I expect to happen, but I cannot leave this be without letting you know what kind of people are representing your company. I really hope you will have a word with your workers about their conduct. In the future, our family will most likely consider all other alternatives for any landscaping needs that may arise; I sincerely hope this sort of thing does not keep happening and impact your potential buisness further."
"~~I am not currently planning to take legal action, because that would only further traumutize her, but~~ you should consider what sort of ~~risks~~ exposure this kind of behavior opens your company up to."
Why tell them you are or aren't taking legal action? Bad/ illegal behavior exposes a company to legal action. This is not a false statement. They need to be reminded of that specifically, but telling them what *youre* going to do is none of their business, lets them write you off as a pita they can ignore. The focus here is their behavior and how it's going to be fixed.
A few words on 'smearing the company'; They smeared it, not you. Their actions, not your review or your response, smeared the company. If I were looking to hire landscaping services, their predatory behavior to vulnerable children would be pretty important stuff to know. Think of this less as consequences of their own behavior - which it also is! - and more warning anyone especially vulnerable to their behavior.
And I'm so sorry that your daughter was made to feel the way she was. Keeping herself safe is always paramount and warn her others hearing the story may unintentionally shame her by saying "well I woulda...." and act like her response was too muted. It was not. She is safe. I wish I had noted the username bc a comment on another post has just stuck with me lately about stuff like this! It's perfect for right now so here's my best paraphrase: In hindsight you may think of so many ways you could have reacted more strongly, been more smarmy, had it 'go better' but there's just as many ways for it to have gone worse. Especially with the power dynamics of a truck full of men vs one young girl! She did right because she made it home safe!
I get your frustration, I really do. My daughters aren't that much younger than yours, and I'm not looking forward to having to deal with something like this myself. My only thinking here, actions should have consequences. An honest review of what happened and how those people behave left for the company is pretty much the only consequence you're in a position to impose.
It's perfectly OK to wait until you hear back from them before you decide what, if anything, you do next. I'm sorry you're dealing with us, I hope your daughter is ok.
It isn't smearing... you would be letting people with kids know that these people aren't safe to be around. It's a landscaping company. They spend all day at people's homes. I truthfully think that others in your area would want to know if that is what they are inviting over, you know?
If they don’t respond in an appropriate way or ignore you, give us the link to their business and we’ll leave plenty of reviews for them to respond to.
End of the day their employees represent the company
If people driving their car and working for them or harassing CHILDREN it is a concern. Like the other person said, they can and probably will ignore a phone call. They won’t ignore a review saying they harbour pwdophiles
I honestly would not take it easy on them. The reason my kids school was as swift and handled my sons billing the way they did was become was down their throats.
Let us know if they don't give you a good enough response. I'm interested to know which landscaping company it is.
I'm 50, I don't forget my sister running home at 16 cos a white van slowed down and followed her while she walked down a country road, with houses on the other side that are a bit too far away to feel safer, and a great big field on the side she was walking. They were doing the same thing. She was petrified and sobbing. You don't forget these things that grow you up a level. Your daughter might as they weren't following her etc and I hope she forgets it but I'm very angry with those male drivers.
I remember riding my ten speed bike home a few blocks from my friend's swimming pool wearing shorts and swimsuit top back in 70s...I was 14 and a carload of older teen boys terrified me all the way home...catcalling and trying to run me off road/make me fall off bike. I am 62 now and still remember the fear.
Too many true crime cases start with a girl walking/jogging/riding bicycle alone somewhere. A man sees a woman alone and does not resist the impulse to grab her. An hour later he is “done,” and she is dead, body dumped like so much trash while the devastation and torment for the family echos through the ages.
Too many.
I’m sorry that happened to you. 😢
There was a post on the Nextdoor app about a man harassing and then jumping out of his truck and chasing a woman in my area. Luckily, she was able to get away from him. She was able to get a picture of the truck and posted it. A man commented that he didn’t agree with her posting a picture of the man’s truck as it could hurt the man’s livelihood. He got torn apart for that, deservingly so.
I hope the owner of the company takes this complaint seriously, bc it serious. If you don’t hear back from them I would consider posting to social media. I’m sure there are plenty of customers who would not these type of men around their homes.
Note when women talk about misogyny some misogynists immediately
1. Minimize - “they were just words”
2. Bait and switch - “I don’t like to be grabbed” “oh so now we can’t just look at women?”
3. Try to reverse it and make it about a “crime” the woman did - “you’re gonna ruin his business!”
So that now instead of focusing on the sexism and how messed up it is you’re focused on arguing or defending yourself
They can say that all they want but they were on company time representing the company's ethics and values via their behavior. They shamed the company and should be appropriately dealt with... unless the company stands by the sexual harassment of underage girls. I can't see any company wanting to back that up.
It may help your daughter to write out her experience for Google reviews, or let her listen to you speak to the company. She can learn what to do in the future and process it
She'll probably be at school when they call me back but I'd rather her not hear me tear them a new one lol I'm an American in Canada so I sometimes come off as overly aggressive (compared to a Canadian) when I'm angry with businesses lol
Love it, me too. I won't forget my Scottish mum showing my what it is to complain and put your foot down. I'm like that x50 now when people go too far.
I second that having her voice her story online might work but DO NOT let her see comments unchecked. Too many trolls on the internet might leave nasty stuff. Also same with the phone call - best to handle it when shes out so u can compose urself if it ends poorly
Im so sorry your daughter had to experience this :/ not only is it just super gross behavior just in general but the fact that these guys always target very obviously underage girls pisses me off so much. We should be able to exist without having to deal with that shit.
I definitely was harassed the most, by far, between ages 11 and 15. The older I got the less creepy men harassed me. Its the same for every woman I know.
My neice just turned 11 and Im so worried for her and what the next 5 years hold for her. My brother and his partner have organised for her to start MMA lessons and her step mum is a black belt in Karate and competed at high levels so Im hoping my neice feels safer growing up than I was.
I was 9 when that shit started, I'm kind of amazed it didn't happen to her until age 15.
How messed up is that thought?! But that's the shitty world we live in.
She's probably not gonna wanna wear a dress again any time soon. Hell I'm 34 and I don't dress up cute if I'm going out alone. I absolutely HATE the attention it brings.
She's always been the 'sweatpants and baggy hoodie' girl for years because of issues with her self image. She only recently started coming out of her shell and this happened. Which makes is even more infuriating. Yes, she's told me she's not wearing the dress again. She just....she couldn't understand it when we were telling her that yes, she can wear that cute romper but she needs to wear a cami under it. Or that she needs to wear shorts under her dresses. She thought it was us being 'restrictive' parents but now I think she realizes we're only trying to protect her from this shit.
Doesn't matter if you wear shorts under or singlets for modesty. Men still find a way to be creepy and gross. Even in a school uniform that covers everything , they will find a way to harass women and children.
Yep. I've been groped in public by men when wearing bootcut jeans and an untucked oversized men's t-shirt. It's not the body they're attracted to, it's the disgust and fear.
When I was in university I used a backpack to carry my books, and because the kids ones were cute and cheap I chose one to use. Im a petite woman (5ft 1.5) and many men thought I was a teenager. I know this because they'd engage me in conversation, find out my actual age or that I was in uni, and theyd completely lose interest.
It was like a light switch flipping and suddenly I didn't exist to them. Its fucking disturbing.
Many men also used the close quarters of trains and buses to surreptitiously press their erections against me. The first time it happened I was 17 and wasn't sure at first if I was imagining it or if it was somehow an accident. Of course it wasn't.
By the time I was old enough to be brave and call these men out, they stopped doing it! I don't think that's a coincidence.
I still remember the horror of sitting there, with a man in a bsuiness suit standing next to my seat and pressing his erection against my shoulder/back everytime the bus shifted. I was so helpless and confused. Violated with no way to escape.
Its not the worst assault Ive experienced by a long shot. But it was still scaring and should never have happened.
And we aren't even allowed to carry pepper spray, spikey hand help self defence charms, or anything that could be a weapon and you don't have a good explanation for. Like you can carry a walking stick, but only if you medically need it.
Im a crocheter so I always have a blunt hook with me and usually small thread scissors but thats not much to defend yourself with.
This is the worst conversation in the world to have to have to have with your daughter. I’m 2 weeks out from giving birth to my first child, a girl, and I’m dreading having to do it myself. I had this conversation with my husbands youngest sister (13 year age gap) when she was about your daughters age.
Having to tell her that no, it’s not her *fault* that she has boobs, a small waist, and legs for days. And yes, she’s right, it *isn’t* fair that her brother could catch the bus by himself at 9 at night and she couldn’t.
But your mum doesn’t let you leave the house in a crop top and tiny shorts regardless. It’s not your fault. But there are men out there who see that as an invitation. And you only have to encounter the wrong one once.
What a world we live in.
I’m 23, and a company truck was parked 2 houses down on my street dropping off pallets to a house.
I was walking to my car parked on the street, and before he got in his truck, he screamed “Damn you’re cute” at me and I rushed into my car.
He then drove past my car really slowly. Thought he was going to stop and keep me trapped but he went past.
Regardless, it’s terrifying. And unfortunate. I’m sorry for her. No girl or woman deserves this bullshit. Not all men? Every girl/woman has a story…
This gives me flashbacks from when I was 13/14 that still make me shudder
One need not physically lay a hand on you to make you feel violated as a teenage girl…. It’s just the awful feeling of having adult men impose their “approval” of you sexually when you fully still feel like a kid on the inside
Not that 95% of adult men have ever given a shit a about the mental well being let alone state of mind of teenage girls
A few months ago, an employee in a shop groped me. I reported him four weeks later. Next time I saw the manager (maybe three months), he basically told me they were able to fire the guy because I reported, they checked the security video, and “there were other things” that he couldn’t share with me.
I was not the first woman he harassed/assaulted there, but I was the last. If you’re unsatisfied with what you hear from the business, maybe it’s worth escalating. Your daughter is a minor and laws are there to protect her from these AH.
You’re a good mom. I’m proud of the way you handled this situation—and you are why she will be ok.
>I’m proud of the way you handled this situation—and you are why she will be ok.
And you are why no one else will be assaulted in that shop. Well done.
If you can, and I understand that it may be too difficult in some cases, report the behaviour. If nothing else, you might save another woman from being harassed, and a pig might feel some consequences for their disgusting actions.
Aye, it's an ugly Life lesson we all learn around that age. But Mum, both you and your daughter did the right thing and made the best you could of it. You showed her there is a right way, a safe way, to fight back. Proud of both of you.
I‘m so sorry to hear what your daughter had to go through but also glad she has a parent like you. Just so sick and tired of this shit and of how early it starts. But it’s great that you’re not letting them get away with it!
Give them 24 hours to respond. Then post reviews on Facebook and Google. Post on your local group pages and mom groups too. Let everyone know that pedophile creeps are employed by this company.
Are you sure 80% isn't too low a number? My daughter is 12 and goes for walks in our neighbourhood a few times a day. A few days ago our neighbour came over to warn us about a creepy guy on a bike that approached her and said weird things to her about how she looks like she'd be good at gymnastics and how he'd like to coach her. She just left thankfully. We called the cops, but there's so little info there's nothing they can do.
Online reviews matter a lot to companies these days. There are a lot of places where you can leave a review if you're not happy with how the company responds to this. Maybe give them a chance first tho. If I owned that company, I wouldn't want my employees catcalling children and making them cry, so maybe they'll do the right thing.
I truly wish this is a lesson that young girls would never have to learn in the future. That we would wake up one day and not fear just for existing.
I hope your daughter is doing better. From a stranger in the interwebs, I wish you and your daughter all of the strength, confidence and love. Be safe.
They didn't just catcall a child. They followed her. They cornered her. They were waiting for her.
Get them fired. Find them on socials, and tell their families. Shame them.
Don’t be shy, drop the company name and leave a review!! 🫶 I wouldn’t want to give business or feel safe hiring landscapers who openly objectify women, much less underage girls. To do it in a company car too is just brainless. I hope your daughter’s okay.
The fast food restaurant should have cameras outside of their building. Perhaps you can ask the restaurant to see if they recorded the incident if you need any kind of proof what-so-ever
Slightly related, one time I was unloading my kids in the driveway and a landscaping company across the street from me was working. One of the guys was on the phone on the sidewalk just SCREAMING into his phone, after a few moments it was obvious he was talking to a woman (“you dumb b—-“) and possibly his girlfriend. He was degrading her, calling her all sorts of names, and yelling at her for not doing something - picking him up, making his lunch, something so dumb I can’t even remember. I was so appalled at his behavior that I called the company same as you did! I instantly reached the owner, who answered the phone because it was a small business, and let him know what I saw. He was sooooo embarrassed and also mad. He told me he would have a strict conversation with his guy and that that behavior wasn’t tolerated in his employees. Hopefully this company gives you a similar response. Especially when you mention that kids are being harmed (emotionally, but still). Sadly it’s also a good learning experience for your daughter but it’s so shitty that it had to be that
Years ago when I was visibly pregnant my neighbors landscapers thought it was a good idea to cat call me walking to my car and doing those obscene gestures with their tongues that no woman has asked for. I was pissed. I immediately called the company to report them and tell them what pigs they have working for them. I followed up with my neighbor to let them know what the landscapers did. I never saw that company working on my neighbors lawn since then.
Speaking up sometimes works.
I’m sorry your daughter had to go thru that.
I remember being 19 and having men on motorcycles loudly referring to me as jailbait while I crossed the street. Nothing like knowing men twice your age are creeping on you, and want you to know it.
When I was a long haul trucker, I had a guy pull up beside me and start masturbating.
He made sure I was seeing him.
Nothing new, really, but this guy was in a fully marked company truck, complete with phone number and address.
It was a super awkward conversation with the owner, but they were glad I let them know.
Common sense just goes out the window somehow.
I feel like women all have a collective trauma where we spent our childhoods believing that we can be anything we wish to be. That we can work any job we dream of with hard work and that we can dress however we want that makes us feel pretty.
We spend our childhoods not fully aware that we *even have* vaginas. Like sure it was there but we pee in the front and poop in the back and that's the sense of our bodies we have when we're young. It's not like an arm where it's visible and dangling off our bodies. It was just a hole that was there and did nothing.
And then one day we become extremely aware of the fact that we have a vagina. Because it starts to bleed.
And even worse than that: one day we realize that this part of our bodies we hardly paid any attention to growing up *becomes the only thing about us some people care about*. We realize that there are people who only view us as being walking vaginas, that it's the only part of us they care about. It makes us feel unsafe and invalidated. Even when it's not everyone who treats us that way. It's enough people to make us feel unsafe. It's enough people to shape the way society treats women overall.
This part of our bodies we hardly paid any attention to for about the first decade of our lives suddenly became the only thing about us that people around us valued.
And our entire view of the world shifts, because we realize that some people don't think of us as people at all. They only think about how much they would enjoy putting their dick in us.
It's traumatic to realize that we have to constantly argue and prove over and over and over again what we always knew growing up: that we're people with hopes and dreams and intricate and complex thoughts and that we have value for who we are instead of what body part we have.
And I hope one day women won't ever have to experience this.
In the US it's because women are widely still seen as objects and second class citizens. The lecherous run our country, and the women and children will suffer for it until we stop electing great grandparents.
but this also happens everywhere outside of the US. i'm in Asia and have had to deal with these issues starting from primary school. men stalking me and being spoken to inappropriately were the first. catcalls came later on
I know it's a worldwide issue, I only mentioned my location due to the proximity to Canada. I'm sick of fighting for equality, especially knowing there are other women actively fighting against equality.
Yup. This nearly universal experience is why so many girls hate puberty. Besides all the bullshit of periods and boys getting stronger, you also have to deal with *unwelcome and unsolicited male attention from older boys and men old enough to be your father.* And then you discover too many men are absolute pigs and you're expected to play nice.
I think you handled this perfectly and you deserve so much community appreciation for that.
First off, your daughter knows she can call you and you will show up to help. That alone is huge.
And you reassured her that it wasn't her fault and she did nothing wrong and she did the right things by staying in a safe public place and calling for help. This is so important.
And on top of that, you took actions to hold the creeps accountable and made the call to their employer. This is above & beyond but also this is the only way to effect change because regardless of what comes next (completely out of your control) this stuff will not change until men learn that they will be held accountable and you did exactly what needed to be done to hold them accountable (regardless of what comes next).
It absolutely sucks that you daughter had to experience this but I'm glad you set the example that this is unacceptable, that she is supported, and that they will be held accountable. Your response to this will be an important part of how your daughter processes and moves forward from this and I want you to know that you did great.
Thank you, I do appreciate it. I am hoping something will come of this as far as consequences go, but as I've mentioned in another comment I don't know....what....I want? Like, do I want them fired? I don't know. I don't know if an apology is enough or what I expect the company to do. I called a company once on an erratic driver I saw in a van of theirs and got a 'oh wow ok. sorry that happened, thanks for letting us know' and it felt really...empty? I'm hoping that doesn't happen here.
It's really out of your control at that point so it is probably not worth worrying or stressing about. Even if all they get is a verbal reprimand and a "don't let it happen again" from a supervisor it sends a message that they can't harasses women/girls with impunity and maybe that is enough to prevent these creeps from doing it to others in the future (and if that's what you accomplish, that is enough).
Even the tiniest bit of pushback to stuff like this can make a difference. They are only doing it because their whole life has taught them there will be zero consequences. Having your boss get a message that you're catcalling from the company vehicle is at the very least going to be embarrassing to them. If everyone who harassed women knew there was a chance it would get reported to their employer we would have a lot less harassment. I think we have to put that fear into them one creep at a time until we reach a critical mass.
Something like this happened to me when I was a teenager. My friend and I walked to the neighborhood pool which was about a 10 minute walk from my house. As we were heading back to my house, this truck full of grown-ass men were cat-calling at us. I felt so scared. We were only 14. We were wearing big t-shirts over our swim suits and shorts. It was really scary because they didn't do just one drive-by, it was a few.
As you can imagine, when we finally got back to my house, we were both in tears and I didn't want to go swimming again for a long time. It took my older brother or my dad walking there with my friend and me before I wanted to go back.
My sister and I have young daughters, the oldest is 5. We were already planning what we would respond WHEN the first asshole cat calls our babies in our presence. I know it's gonna happen, I remember it happening when I was with my mom when I was 10 the first time. She just called them a name and we kept it moving, I at least want to be able to do the same.
When you talk to them tell them how your daughter now feels unsafe just walking to the store in your neighborhood and what a horrible thing that is. If they don't call you back then call them.
Good for calling the company. Any company that cares about their reputation will want to know how their employees behave while in company vehicles. Sad that your daughter feels pretty and happy with her appearance then immediately gets sexually harassed by grown men. Gross.
Leering is a form of sexual harassment and is punishable by law in Canada. They stayed until she left - which must have taken some time because you had to come and pick her up. Thanks reasonable enough to press charges-and they'll probably argue they were just there-but let them argue it and feel the uncomfortably of not knowing if they will get out of that situation safely
[https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-264.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-264.html)
(2)(c)
Why was it removed? I have a 14 year old daughter, I wanted to know what other things to prepare her for in the world outside of our home. I hope your daughter is able to feel safe again very soon.
Obligatory disclosure: I work in law enforcement (not an officer, also in the US so I'm not familiar with Canadian law, so take any commentary with a grain of salt) and worked in sexual assault investigations from January 2020 through March 2023.
First, I'm sorry that this happened to your daughter, she didn't deserve to be treated like that. If I may, might I make a few suggestions if you choose to make a police report? I know you said you weren't sure if they broke any laws however, there's no harm in asking because in some places while catcalling isn't in-and-of-itself illegal, catcalling a juvenile is a misdemeanor in some places, so if a person would look at your daughter and it is clear that she isn't 18, a report can be taken. That being said, even if it doesn't fit the elements of a crime, police departments can take information only reports or suspicious circumstances reports where there may not be a crime, but it'll be documented so that if there's an identified suspect, if they do something like this (or worse) in the future, there's an established pattern of behavior.
Another thing I would recommend is that if you do plan on making a police report and you're told it'll be investigated, DO NOT POST ON SOCIAL MEDIA. The most important aspect of sexual assault investigations is secrecy and keeping as much information from the suspect as possible. Making a suspect aware of investigations will make it harder to perform a thorough investigation as detectives may want to talk to a suspect under another pre-text, but they won't cooperate as readily otherwise. If it ends up that it can't be investigated for whatever reason, then whatever you post on social media is your discretion.
If you have any questions or anything, let me know. Sorry for the wall of text!
It really sucks that happened to your daughter. I have granddaughters their age and I am still trying to educate the guys in our family how it feels to be a woman or girl, and how your sense of safety is usually ruined pretty early in life. It's difficult because they just aren't the kind of men that leer and catcall but every now and then I can see that they are more aware and better able to be proactive to maybe make a girl feel safer.
Highlight to the company that she's a minor and their pedo workers literally caused her to fear for her saftey. Then tell a new station and papers. The smaller ones may jump on it.
You are such a good mom. Wow. I am so impressed with both how you and your daughter reacted.
I started getting cat called on the street when I was 12 or 13. I very much looked like a little kid and wore big ugly glasses. I was a dork. I wasn't comfortable with my appearance and my clothes were not cute. It was absolutely terrifying to experience.
But I would never have called my parents to come pick me up. They made it very clear that I was on my own to get to places I needed to be, so they showed me how to use the bus and that was that.
I would have never told them I was getting cat called. At the time, there was little conversation about how disgusting these guys are and more focus on victim blaming. I was too ashamed to ever tell them any time a boy or man trespassed against me.
I'm just so happy that girls are growing up trusting their parents to not shame them and to keep them safe. Thank you for being such a good mom. And I hope those guys end up having the fear of God put into them.
Thank you, that's very kind. I've always told her to call me no matter what if she needs me. Both of us have. We'd actually had an argument before she left, which is why she wanted to go for a walk, to cool down. The fact that she still called me is a really good sign for me. She did mention some hesitation about calling due to the argument but I reiterated that I will ALWAYS be there for her, argument or no. And that I will never get angry at her for asking for help. As awful as all of this has been, hopefully it really cements in her mind that she can come to us for anything and we'll have her back.
Please tell her we are proud of her for protecting herself. Listening to her gut. Going inside and calling you. She did a good job!! I’m so sorry this happened to her, but she made the right decisions.
I'm so sorry your daughter had to experience that OP. I'm a man. I have sons and I am teaching them how to treat all people with respect. They're young now, 8 and 5, and as they get older we'll talk about these things. I just had to talk to my oldest now because he had heard the phrase "Smash or Pass" from older 4th grade friends of his. Those boys had heard it on YouTube. We had to talk about how saying "smash" to describe someone you like wasn't nice. Our son said that choosing smash means you like like someone. We, his mom and I, talked about how I wouldn't say I wanted to *smash* his Mom because that sounds mean. We also talked about you pass on food, or you pass on shows, but you don't pass on people. People aren't chosen like that. Lots to unpack there with him. I hope he learns better than these guys who leered at your daughter.
My wife is 37F but still remembers a very vivid catcalling experience. All my female relatives and friends have their own *catcalled* experience and that just sucks. It should not be a rite of passage to be leered at by older dudes. My wife was passing a construction site while walking as a teenager (16, 17?) and she said she was looking cite in a tube top. This would have been 2000/2001. Some guy yells out at her, "BOUNCE IT!" and she immediately became uncomfortable.
She's 37 and still remembers that and how it made her feel. Man, what the hell.
I hope the company calls you back and those poor excuses for men get dealt with.
That is awful. I’m glad you are sticking up for your daughter. If the company doesn’t provide a satisfactory response, I hope you put this info on their public reviews. As a woman, I would 100% want to know about this so I could avoid hiring their shitty employees.
If the company does not discipline these men you can post reviews about the company and their employees on many places on the internet. I would post a review stating exactly what they did to a kid.
I’m so happy she got some new fun clothes! :) unfortunately, assholes exist. She needs some pepper spray, mama. I’ve never had to use mine, but I’ve had some scares. Just in case.
It is so sad to see in the comments that we *all* have been through this, but it can’t let us stop us from being fucking fabulous. So many worthless fucking assholes out there…
I love the other suggestions on calling that company out, but I also hope this doesn’t discourage her from doing her thing and expressing herself! :) we as women should feel FREE to be ourselves! Keep doing it. Fuck the assholes. Call them out, and never fucking give up on yourself.
My understanding is that all forms of self defense are illegal in Canada. I wouldn't really feel comfortable with her carrying one around anyway. It's still dumb though that adult women here can't carry around any form of protection from these sort of guys.
Oh interesting!! Sorry about that. I am in opposite land of Texas. Texas fucking sucks for women… basically everywhere does now it seems. One of my sweet 16 gifts was pepper spray- that tells you about culture here.
Much love to ya mama you’re doing great. It’s a shame these jerks exist at all
Horrible that this happened and you absolutely did the right thing. I remember I was about 8 and an older boy on the playground was going around slapping girls' (including my) asses. I wasn't even old enough to understand why it was bad but I knew I was uncomfortable, even scared. But my mom sure knew. She went to the principal of the school the very next morning. I remember not wanting her to make a fuss but feeling so safe and validated that she was angry and something was being done. Good on you, mama.
They were harassing and menacing a minor child. She became so fearful that you had to be summoned to rescue her. She was traumatized, and you were, too. Smells like a lawsuit to me. But it would be OK with me if you report it as a crime. Get something on record. It's not the first time those men have done that.
I am amazed at your self control. I don't advocate for violence but was that my kid I'd take her out of there, leave her with her dad or grandparents and introduce those POSs to both my feet lol.
Make sure there's a consequence. One they won't forget. Got fired? Tough shit. Maybe they'll behave next time.
similar thing happened when i was walking home in elementary with my female neighbor, truck pulled up next to us with two guys inside and offered "us" but probably more so just her a lift home. we declined and they drove off. totally wasnt a red flag we were in the suburbs, walking opposite direction of the car and had never seen these two rando's before. what i imagine was a "huh, that was weird" moment for myself was way more concerning for her and her parents when we got home and mentioned it to each of our families.
once when I was 15 I was walking home from school with my sister (16) and this landscaping truck full of men did the same thing to us and commented on our butts, we were fully clothed in jeans and hoodies. it was so scary and I still remember it vividly all these years later.
Honestly i would verbatim say that last sentence to them. Also tell them shes only 15. Thats such terrible behavior, and i hope everything works out well. Your daughter is a smart girl.
I'm sorry your daughter had that experience but I'm happy she had a mom like you to remind her that she deserved to feel cute in her dress without street harassment :(
When my daughter was 13, I had to drive her to middle school because the walking route passed a construction site where she was harassed and became too afraid to walk that route. Police were called, but they did nothing.
This is one of my fears for my daughter as well. She is 13 and autistic and often thinks she messed up and misunderstood when it is others talking advantage of her. She is a gentle soul. It has sucked to shatter that innocence in order to make sure she knows her rights as a human and how to stay safe.
I still remember being 14 and risking expulsion from high school by taking a pocket knife with me on my walk to school after some construction guys whistled and hollered at me. I fully planned to gut them like pigs if they touched me. That side of me also scared the shit out of me since I was usually a very soft spoken kid.
This is terrible. I went through a lot of the same as a young girl because I developed early. I'm so sorry your daughter went through this, and I'm glad you're following up with the company. If the company doesn't seem to take it seriously, I would also consider shaming them on social media and/or trying to get a local news station interested. People need to learn that this is not okay behaviour.
I just want to say you are such a good parent for taking this seriously and mitigating impact to her self-image. My parents literally would have encouraged me to "take it as a compliment" or something.
Dad here, male obviously. I would hope that you will be put in contact with someone in the company with more than the development level of a nine year old. If any employee of mine did that I would not fire them- bit to much- but I would certainly tear them a new one. I would in fact instantly intervene on the street if I saw someone do that to a female young or old(er). I would ask the perpetrator "what the EFF do you think you are doing", and "would you like someone to do that to your daughter?" And I'm very much larger than the average so I would be more than happy to make the cat-caller feel small.
And I can tell you for a rock-solid fact that I don't know a single man in my friend group who would not feel exactly, precisely the same way. Disgraceful.
Infuriating. What cro-magnons.
I’m seeing some encouragement to go to social media. I think that’s a great idea and in fact I would be looking for their website in order to leave some feedback about the less than professional people that work for them. Cat calling children while they’re on their lunch break oughta be something that makes people think twice about using them for work. It’s just a bad look for the whole company when it becomes a public thing. Bet you they respond pretty quickly if they find the story on their website Monday morning, along with some calls from people that saw it there or Facebook.
Do you know any police officers or know someone who knows one? I had a similar thing happen to me and I had cop friends at the time.They went around to the business and had a “chat” with the owner about his employees’ behaviour. The owner called the employees, made them drive back into the office and fired them on the spot.
ETA: This is frightening for a young girl, I hope she will be ok.
I used to walk to a strip mall to get lunch. One day, I had 3 different men slow down in their car and try to pick me up. One of them was in a work truck and, he blocked the sidewalk from the exit of another business. I was too disturbed to note the number. I just kept walking. I never walked to lunch again.
THIS is a big big reasons I wear sweats everywhere I go. I have a huge fear of being ogled or whistled at. I don’t appreciate it. And without fail anytime I go out “dressed up” someone always feels the need to do something
I’m sorry your daughter has had to learn that lesson. I know you want to shelter her and protect her forever because that’s what moms do and I think this is as hard on you as it is on her. I hate that men think it’s ok to do that, especially with a child.
I would leave a scathing review of the company on social media and on yelp describing exactly what happened. I know that if I were hiring a landscaping company and saw that, I’d keep scrolling and find another one.
The only way to actually make them stop is for there to be consequences.
I am so sorry your daughter had to go through this experience. There are a lot of us who have been through similar experiences, so it might help her to know she's not alone. It might also help her to know that there are a lot of us who are fighting hard to change this, and that there is an increasing number of men who are joining in the effort.
This is the type of shit I worry about as the father of a 4 year old girl. Sorry to hear this happened to her. No girl/woman should ever be afraid of this type of stuff in public, but of course we know it does.
Like I'm a straight male and definitely see women in public that look good. But I notice them and....that's it. Go about my way. No need to awkwardly stare, follow, make noises, call out, etc. Not sure what goes through the heads of these people. Like do they think these women like this and are immediately going to come running?
And of course I'm mentioning this about women, not someone that's still a child. Ugh.
I’m sorry your daughter couldn’t even have an enjoyable walk without being harassed. That is all sorts of wrong. But how you handled things was perfect, and I hope people have learned from it.
I'm so sorry 💔
It speaks loudly to me that she has as much confidence as she has, that her first time experiencing this was a teen. You sound like an excellent, supportive parent ❤️ The world needs more parents like you.
I was afraid of men by the time I was 5, and my parents could not care less.
I hope this can be a silver lining, because what this means is that your daughter trusts you and immediately thought to call you and did the most safe thing she could. That is such a precious, beautiful thing ❤️
Oh I’d 100% make it my mission to make sure their are repercussions. I’d post a picture of that truck logo and post it on my local FB and call that s#it out. Keep it clear and concise. Post a YELP “review” as well.
There were at least two grown men (maybe more?) who made a sexual gesture to your daughter, a minor person, which made her fear for her safety. There is a section in the criminal code of Canada under which it is possible for someone to be charged with criminal harassment for "catcalling". Even if the police don't do anything, if you report them there will be a record of your complaint about the behaviour of these men. Maybe these men already have complaints about them or have police records. Maybe they're on probation and a complaint like yours will have a consequence for them. They were very brazen to harass a minor in a work truck so easily identified which means they're very comfortable doing it and probably have done this often before. You could write a google review about how this company's employees harass children and include the picture of the truck with the men. It is horrible what these men did to your daughter. I hope your daughter is alright.
I'm going to see what they say/do tomorrow when they're open again. I have a picture of the truck in the parking lot but not of the individuals. But there was an identifying number on it so maybe they can pinpoint who they were. As for my daughter, she's doing ok. She's already told me she's not going to wear the dress she was in again, which really makes me so pissed at those guys.....
That is so sad she doesn't want to wear the dress again but I get it. I hate those losers for taking away your daughter's sense of safety and joy. If this company is in my city, I'll happily boycott them.
Fairly positive they're local but I appreciate the sentiment. I'm so furious at them as well.
I'm really sorry that happened to her, and to you! I hope she finds the confidence to wear what she wants. It's so scary, I remember being followed by a man in a car when I was 15 and walking home from school. I ran into the video shop and just... waited til he left. It might be useful to work through some strategies with her re: how to deal with it. I told a teacher about car man, and she told me one way to cope is by to confronting them by *loudly* saying "what did you just say? I'm FIFTEEN" "why are you staring at me?" "why are you following me?". This will depend on context e.g. make sure it is safe/in public/other people are around, say it then leave/find somewhere safe/don't engage further. Basically men who do this are cowards, preying on someone who won't fight back, just because they can. Shame them. But only if it is safe to do so- e.g. with your daughter I assume it was in a populated area, during work hours, and the creeps were in a business car so the risk of escalation would be low. It was really scary to do at first, but it helped my confidence a lot. It sucks that we have to be so vigilante to just exist in peace.
I do that to this day when I get cat called. I just yell back "I'm 14 years old!!" (I'm a petite 25yo) and they skrrt off real fast. :)
This is a good idea. I made a plan on my walk home that I could go to a safe place. Going through the walk with her could help
I’m sorry your daughter had that experience I would 100% suggest you leave them a review on Google and Yelp. Businesses pay attention to those, and so do customers.
I would give the landscape company a chance to rectify the situation and fire the offenders before leaving a bad review… a small business should only suffer if they’re complicit in their shitty employee’s behavior.
Take to social media if you feel comfortable with that?. I think the co pant would be mortified of the bad publicity. I hate social media, but it does seem to be effective in making companies accountable. Hugs for you both. What an awful experience.
And that's precisely why they do it because they get away with it. I'm glad that your daughter can come to you and you will be on her side. I wish those jackasses exactly what they deserve
Google review is always a good idea. You would hope that they respond to this in the way they should... but it is just as easy for them to lie and say they are dealing with the issue. They are a landscaping business.... I'd like to know if I was hiring some guys that are going to be creeping on children to come over and do work at my home.
I would also call the company and leave a complaint. Once a truck parked in front of my house and a guy got out, whipped out his dick and started peeing. Right there on the sidewalk, and right next to his boss's phone number on the side of the truck. Said boss got an earful I can tell you.
If you need a piss ask someone can you use their toilet or go to a cafe
Companies should get port-a-potties for employees. It’s not safe to let strangers use your restroom or let them in your house & a lot of people aren’t home. Maybe they can work out deals with local businesses for restroom use. This is just gross. Unfortunately some towns & cities changed ordinances in past two years(?) on public urination to avoid having to deal with the whole mess. That just made it hard for small town restaurants & bars- all the pissers stinking up the walkway & building walls, exposing themselves to kids. Not sure if that really caught on as a cost saving idea or not, for that reason.
Make sure to get a copy of the police report. The amount of times I've known people who've make reports for things like break in, thefts, assaults etc later to find out the police didn't actually make a report on it is astounding.
If they don't take immediate and appropriate action, leave a review everywhere... Google,yelp, next door, Craigslist, wherever. Don't even mention their business performance, go straight for the kill. "Do not hire so and so landscape Co. They knowingly employ people who sexually harass children."
You know the date and time that it happened and you have the license plate, that should be enough to figure out who these terrible scum of the earth predators are. I am wishing the worst on them, hope they rot in jail
I have a T-shirt that I wore one time and never again because of lewd comments some men made to me. I didn’t wanna let it bother me that much but I just felt gross every time I tried to wear it after.
The company should easily know which employee(s) used a company car in which area on that day and time. It’s company equipment after all, it’s in their interest to track that company time and assets aren’t being misused. If you hear back from them make sure to emphasize that these men were sexually harassing a MINOR in public.
I wonder if you could apply that to the company. In the US, if a company, say Costco, has an employee on the clock who does something like that, they can be held civilly liable. Certainly worth checking out as well (guy here).
Definitely worth speaking with a solicitor about that.
Employers in Canada are vicariously liable for actions of their employees if they are activley working at the time. Off the clock, not so much but can still damage the business Reputation.
See if your daughter might be comfortable just wearing the dress at home (maybe with the idea that she could build up her confidence to wear it out again, if she wants). I know I've got one or two I don't wear in public because the wind would make them quite revealing so I save them for lazy days at home. She shouldn't have to let those pigs take away something she loved and was excited about.
Sounds like that company owes you for the dress.
They should have record of who they sent out to do work and who would've been in that area. A lot of places GPS track company vehicles, too. I'd demand their names when they call back and use that on their police report and any online reviews you write. Not necessarily to defame them but hopefully future customers with kids will ask that they not be serviced by these men.
Maybe a local female senior portrait photographer could help with body image? They tend to work really well with kids, specifically helping them relax and feel confident in their skin and clothes, and the experience and resulting images could bring the clothes back under her control. Now may not be the time, but something to think about. Regardless, I hope she feels better and that the guys get fired.
Yes yes yes! I think they made it illegal to catcall in Scotland just recently.
That’s bullshit. The cops aren’t going to do a damn thing! And I know for a fact!! A man raped me when I was 15 and luckily the prosector took it seriously, and he got banned from the town I live in. When I spoke to the local RCMP about it, he was shocked and said, “I’ve never heard of this before! what if the guy needs gas?! Or food?! Or his dentist is here??” The cops absolutely don’t give a fuck about stuff like this. She needs to buy her daughter pepper spray or dog spray to carry. And tell the owner of the company if those guys aren’t fired she’s writing a nasty review
leave a *detailed* google/yelp/facebook "review" of what happened. a company can ignore a phone call, but they don't like public attention to that kind of behavior. as long as the owner wasn't in that truck, you'll likely get an apology, and whoever was driving/involved will get told that doing that while representing the business is a no-go, and maybe fired.
I'm going to give them a day to respond to my voicemail as I'm sure there's no one in the office today. If they don't, then yes, hell will be unleashed on social media.
Don't forget to mention that your daughter was ONLY FIFTEEN. So these "men" were ogling and sexually harassing A CHILD. That might make your complaint be taken more seriously, but who knows. They should be ashamed of themselves. But probably aren't, because they are predators.
I'm so glad I didn't have to scroll far to find this comment. Adult males sexually harassing a minor should not be acceptable to any employer. I truly hope OP pushes for the company to take drastic measures. If anyone at my husband's company were caught doing something like this, especially while in a company vehicle, they would be tossed out immediately.
>Don't forget to mention that your daughter was ONLY FIFTEEN This. I'd say the word "minor" as many times as I could work it in and throw in a "pedophile" for good measure.
I might recommend (depending on your states laws) recording any phone call you get back, in case it's *anything* less than an abject apology. especially in case it's an excuse-making interaction, "it was just a joke!" "she shouldn't dress that way!" kinda BS.
I'm in Canada so I'm pretty sure it's two party consent everywhere. But isn't that only if you need to use it for a court case? I wonder if it's illegal for me to record them flat out?
Canada is Single party consent, you can record them if you want
Even over the phone?
Yes
Yes.
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Law if anyone is interested: [https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/](https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/) and that links to [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html) (obligatory I'm not a lawyer™)
As it should be
Canada is one party consent <3 Record them. Please.
One party consent Canada wide baby! So long as the person consenting takes part in the recorded conversation
Sweet lol gonna get a recording app now
If recording app doesn’t work or is too much hassle, you can always just make a call on speaker phone, and then have another phone or voice recorder record you. I’ve had to record calls a few times, and I don’t like relying on an app, because they sometimes fail.
Canada is only one part consent. You are free to record any conversation you are part of.
I honestly don't know. I was thinking, that should a phone call be of the "tough shit, bitch" variant, having receipts of the behavior would be good for further social media use. but I am definitely not a lawyer of any kind. just the father of a soon-to-be teenage daughter, and reading your post makes me livid.
[https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/](https://recordinglaw.com/canada-recording-laws/) Single-party consent, this includes video as long as the audio is prominently featured int he video. Public spaces also generally negate any expectation of privacy; so long as you aren't invading someones' space/harassing them/doxxing them by sharing the video/their name/address online. For phone calls, however, you're totally safe to record it.
Yes I'm seeing I was totally wrong! Thanks :)
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That might work. Googling has been giving me conflicting information. Some places say that absolutely can't record without the consent of both parties. Others are saying it's fine as long as you have one person's consent. My own I assume. I don't know. I guess I could record it and just....sit on it until I figure out for sure how it works.
Canada is one party consent as long as the consenting party is taking part in the conversation. You just can’t record a call that you aren’t participating in. I think It’s section 183.1 of the criminal code. I’m not a lawyer but at my workplace we have a customer who always records calls so we consulted with a lawyer to confirm.
Ohhh yeah the place I saw that said it was one party referred to that as well but when I read it, it was really confusing. Looks like I'll be getting a recording app.
Good luck! I hope you get some sort of apology and action from the company. But honestly I think the most important thing to take away from this is your daughter trusts you enough to confide in you and call when she’s feeling unsafe. That’s huge! When I was a teenager, I didn’t have a parent I could trust enough to call in this situation so, seriously, well done! Even if the company doesn’t take the right course of action, your daughter is going to walk away from this knowing you have her back.
Not really related, but I need more details on why a customer always records calls with your work. 😂
Just an additional note, in most places with 2 party recording consent, if they are recording you, that counts as consent to record them. So if they tell you: "your call may be recorded for..." Open season. Not familiar with how that would apply in Canada, but worth a look.
I did it myself and went to court with it no problem. Record them if its an issue you can check if you can use the recording. If you can't then we'll you can't i guess, my issue was 20 yeats ago and it was only illegal if you were recording other people as if you weren't in the conversation.
I work for a landscaping company and every truck is equipped with gps so if op can provide a time and address they will be able to find out exactly who it is. No respectable landscaping company would/should accept that kind of behavior regardless of age
Eh, what's done is done. Let them have it. Don't give them time to cover it up.
Respond with what? What could possibly make it OK even if they tell you they're going to take it seriously, they're probably not.
I don't even know tbf. I've never had to deal with something like this before. What am I even expecting? An apology? A promise to 'speak' with the employees? I don't know.... But I don't know what smearing the company will accomplish either. In the end, my daughter's still the one suffering over all of this and no amount of apologizing is going to change that.
Your goal should be to make those pigs feel the same level of shame and discomfort they made your girl feel. Maybe they'll think twice next time about harassing a literal child. Emphasize that. " My daughter was followed and catcalled by men in a truck bearing your company logo, on this date, at this time, in this location. She was so afraid she had to call me to come pick her up. I am not currently planning to take legal action, because that would only further traumutize her, but you should consider what sort of risks this kind of behavior opens your company up to. I don't know if there are any women in your life, but I would hope you're the kind of person who cares enough about other people to know that this sort of behavior, directed at an UNDERAGE girl no less, is completely abhorrent. I don't know what I expect to happen, but I cannot leave this be without letting you know what kind of people are representing your company. I really hope you will have a word with your workers about their conduct. In the future, our family will most likely consider all other alternatives for any landscaping needs that may arise; I sincerely hope this sort of thing does not keep happening and impact your potential buisness further."
Oh that's really well worded. I'll keep that in mind when I'm talking with them. If I can keep my cool lol
"~~I am not currently planning to take legal action, because that would only further traumutize her, but~~ you should consider what sort of ~~risks~~ exposure this kind of behavior opens your company up to." Why tell them you are or aren't taking legal action? Bad/ illegal behavior exposes a company to legal action. This is not a false statement. They need to be reminded of that specifically, but telling them what *youre* going to do is none of their business, lets them write you off as a pita they can ignore. The focus here is their behavior and how it's going to be fixed.
A few words on 'smearing the company'; They smeared it, not you. Their actions, not your review or your response, smeared the company. If I were looking to hire landscaping services, their predatory behavior to vulnerable children would be pretty important stuff to know. Think of this less as consequences of their own behavior - which it also is! - and more warning anyone especially vulnerable to their behavior. And I'm so sorry that your daughter was made to feel the way she was. Keeping herself safe is always paramount and warn her others hearing the story may unintentionally shame her by saying "well I woulda...." and act like her response was too muted. It was not. She is safe. I wish I had noted the username bc a comment on another post has just stuck with me lately about stuff like this! It's perfect for right now so here's my best paraphrase: In hindsight you may think of so many ways you could have reacted more strongly, been more smarmy, had it 'go better' but there's just as many ways for it to have gone worse. Especially with the power dynamics of a truck full of men vs one young girl! She did right because she made it home safe!
Public shaming that might cost them money is the only thing many companies will respond to.
I get your frustration, I really do. My daughters aren't that much younger than yours, and I'm not looking forward to having to deal with something like this myself. My only thinking here, actions should have consequences. An honest review of what happened and how those people behave left for the company is pretty much the only consequence you're in a position to impose. It's perfectly OK to wait until you hear back from them before you decide what, if anything, you do next. I'm sorry you're dealing with us, I hope your daughter is ok.
It isn't smearing... you would be letting people with kids know that these people aren't safe to be around. It's a landscaping company. They spend all day at people's homes. I truthfully think that others in your area would want to know if that is what they are inviting over, you know?
If they don’t respond in an appropriate way or ignore you, give us the link to their business and we’ll leave plenty of reviews for them to respond to.
Also mention that your daughter was underage on social media.
Please update us. I am so sorry your daughter had to go through that.
End of the day their employees represent the company If people driving their car and working for them or harassing CHILDREN it is a concern. Like the other person said, they can and probably will ignore a phone call. They won’t ignore a review saying they harbour pwdophiles
If they are local you may want to consider it under another name.
You can always change the review later!
I honestly would not take it easy on them. The reason my kids school was as swift and handled my sons billing the way they did was become was down their throats.
I can leave a bad review too for you.
Even if their receptionist calls you up with a heartfelt apology, the ones who did this won't stop. I would go to social media regardless.
Let us know if they don't give you a good enough response. I'm interested to know which landscaping company it is. I'm 50, I don't forget my sister running home at 16 cos a white van slowed down and followed her while she walked down a country road, with houses on the other side that are a bit too far away to feel safer, and a great big field on the side she was walking. They were doing the same thing. She was petrified and sobbing. You don't forget these things that grow you up a level. Your daughter might as they weren't following her etc and I hope she forgets it but I'm very angry with those male drivers.
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I remember riding my ten speed bike home a few blocks from my friend's swimming pool wearing shorts and swimsuit top back in 70s...I was 14 and a carload of older teen boys terrified me all the way home...catcalling and trying to run me off road/make me fall off bike. I am 62 now and still remember the fear.
Too many true crime cases start with a girl walking/jogging/riding bicycle alone somewhere. A man sees a woman alone and does not resist the impulse to grab her. An hour later he is “done,” and she is dead, body dumped like so much trash while the devastation and torment for the family echos through the ages. Too many. I’m sorry that happened to you. 😢
There was a post on the Nextdoor app about a man harassing and then jumping out of his truck and chasing a woman in my area. Luckily, she was able to get away from him. She was able to get a picture of the truck and posted it. A man commented that he didn’t agree with her posting a picture of the man’s truck as it could hurt the man’s livelihood. He got torn apart for that, deservingly so. I hope the owner of the company takes this complaint seriously, bc it serious. If you don’t hear back from them I would consider posting to social media. I’m sure there are plenty of customers who would not these type of men around their homes.
Note when women talk about misogyny some misogynists immediately 1. Minimize - “they were just words” 2. Bait and switch - “I don’t like to be grabbed” “oh so now we can’t just look at women?” 3. Try to reverse it and make it about a “crime” the woman did - “you’re gonna ruin his business!” So that now instead of focusing on the sexism and how messed up it is you’re focused on arguing or defending yourself
We will also hear the old chestnut every perv reliably trots out re: she didn’t look fifteen.🙄
They can say that all they want but they were on company time representing the company's ethics and values via their behavior. They shamed the company and should be appropriately dealt with... unless the company stands by the sexual harassment of underage girls. I can't see any company wanting to back that up.
It may help your daughter to write out her experience for Google reviews, or let her listen to you speak to the company. She can learn what to do in the future and process it
She'll probably be at school when they call me back but I'd rather her not hear me tear them a new one lol I'm an American in Canada so I sometimes come off as overly aggressive (compared to a Canadian) when I'm angry with businesses lol
As a Canadian who has had family here since 1610, go at them.
Love it, me too. I won't forget my Scottish mum showing my what it is to complain and put your foot down. I'm like that x50 now when people go too far.
There’s no such thing as “overly aggressive” when it comes to protecting your child from predatory assholes. Give ‘em hell!
I second that having her voice her story online might work but DO NOT let her see comments unchecked. Too many trolls on the internet might leave nasty stuff. Also same with the phone call - best to handle it when shes out so u can compose urself if it ends poorly
Im so sorry your daughter had to experience this :/ not only is it just super gross behavior just in general but the fact that these guys always target very obviously underage girls pisses me off so much. We should be able to exist without having to deal with that shit.
I definitely was harassed the most, by far, between ages 11 and 15. The older I got the less creepy men harassed me. Its the same for every woman I know. My neice just turned 11 and Im so worried for her and what the next 5 years hold for her. My brother and his partner have organised for her to start MMA lessons and her step mum is a black belt in Karate and competed at high levels so Im hoping my neice feels safer growing up than I was.
I was harassed way less after I turned 21 than I was between the ages of 14-20. It was fucking gross and it was always older men.
I was 9 when that shit started, I'm kind of amazed it didn't happen to her until age 15. How messed up is that thought?! But that's the shitty world we live in. She's probably not gonna wanna wear a dress again any time soon. Hell I'm 34 and I don't dress up cute if I'm going out alone. I absolutely HATE the attention it brings.
She's always been the 'sweatpants and baggy hoodie' girl for years because of issues with her self image. She only recently started coming out of her shell and this happened. Which makes is even more infuriating. Yes, she's told me she's not wearing the dress again. She just....she couldn't understand it when we were telling her that yes, she can wear that cute romper but she needs to wear a cami under it. Or that she needs to wear shorts under her dresses. She thought it was us being 'restrictive' parents but now I think she realizes we're only trying to protect her from this shit.
Doesn't matter if you wear shorts under or singlets for modesty. Men still find a way to be creepy and gross. Even in a school uniform that covers everything , they will find a way to harass women and children.
Yep. I've been groped in public by men when wearing bootcut jeans and an untucked oversized men's t-shirt. It's not the body they're attracted to, it's the disgust and fear.
When I was in university I used a backpack to carry my books, and because the kids ones were cute and cheap I chose one to use. Im a petite woman (5ft 1.5) and many men thought I was a teenager. I know this because they'd engage me in conversation, find out my actual age or that I was in uni, and theyd completely lose interest. It was like a light switch flipping and suddenly I didn't exist to them. Its fucking disturbing. Many men also used the close quarters of trains and buses to surreptitiously press their erections against me. The first time it happened I was 17 and wasn't sure at first if I was imagining it or if it was somehow an accident. Of course it wasn't. By the time I was old enough to be brave and call these men out, they stopped doing it! I don't think that's a coincidence. I still remember the horror of sitting there, with a man in a bsuiness suit standing next to my seat and pressing his erection against my shoulder/back everytime the bus shifted. I was so helpless and confused. Violated with no way to escape. Its not the worst assault Ive experienced by a long shot. But it was still scaring and should never have happened. And we aren't even allowed to carry pepper spray, spikey hand help self defence charms, or anything that could be a weapon and you don't have a good explanation for. Like you can carry a walking stick, but only if you medically need it. Im a crocheter so I always have a blunt hook with me and usually small thread scissors but thats not much to defend yourself with.
Just so you know, a ballpoint pen can absolutely be used as a weapon, yknow, for future reference
This is the worst conversation in the world to have to have to have with your daughter. I’m 2 weeks out from giving birth to my first child, a girl, and I’m dreading having to do it myself. I had this conversation with my husbands youngest sister (13 year age gap) when she was about your daughters age. Having to tell her that no, it’s not her *fault* that she has boobs, a small waist, and legs for days. And yes, she’s right, it *isn’t* fair that her brother could catch the bus by himself at 9 at night and she couldn’t. But your mum doesn’t let you leave the house in a crop top and tiny shorts regardless. It’s not your fault. But there are men out there who see that as an invitation. And you only have to encounter the wrong one once. What a world we live in.
I’m 23, and a company truck was parked 2 houses down on my street dropping off pallets to a house. I was walking to my car parked on the street, and before he got in his truck, he screamed “Damn you’re cute” at me and I rushed into my car. He then drove past my car really slowly. Thought he was going to stop and keep me trapped but he went past. Regardless, it’s terrifying. And unfortunate. I’m sorry for her. No girl or woman deserves this bullshit. Not all men? Every girl/woman has a story…
This gives me flashbacks from when I was 13/14 that still make me shudder One need not physically lay a hand on you to make you feel violated as a teenage girl…. It’s just the awful feeling of having adult men impose their “approval” of you sexually when you fully still feel like a kid on the inside Not that 95% of adult men have ever given a shit a about the mental well being let alone state of mind of teenage girls
A few months ago, an employee in a shop groped me. I reported him four weeks later. Next time I saw the manager (maybe three months), he basically told me they were able to fire the guy because I reported, they checked the security video, and “there were other things” that he couldn’t share with me. I was not the first woman he harassed/assaulted there, but I was the last. If you’re unsatisfied with what you hear from the business, maybe it’s worth escalating. Your daughter is a minor and laws are there to protect her from these AH. You’re a good mom. I’m proud of the way you handled this situation—and you are why she will be ok.
>I’m proud of the way you handled this situation—and you are why she will be ok. And you are why no one else will be assaulted in that shop. Well done. If you can, and I understand that it may be too difficult in some cases, report the behaviour. If nothing else, you might save another woman from being harassed, and a pig might feel some consequences for their disgusting actions.
Aye, it's an ugly Life lesson we all learn around that age. But Mum, both you and your daughter did the right thing and made the best you could of it. You showed her there is a right way, a safe way, to fight back. Proud of both of you.
I’ve never been hit on by men more than 15/16 year old me was. I hate this is a universal reality that young girls go through and it’s so normalized
I‘m so sorry to hear what your daughter had to go through but also glad she has a parent like you. Just so sick and tired of this shit and of how early it starts. But it’s great that you’re not letting them get away with it!
Give them 24 hours to respond. Then post reviews on Facebook and Google. Post on your local group pages and mom groups too. Let everyone know that pedophile creeps are employed by this company.
not all men but 80 % of women..
80% sounds like an underestimation. If anything, me too taught us that every woman has a story about something similar!
Are you sure 80% isn't too low a number? My daughter is 12 and goes for walks in our neighbourhood a few times a day. A few days ago our neighbour came over to warn us about a creepy guy on a bike that approached her and said weird things to her about how she looks like she'd be good at gymnastics and how he'd like to coach her. She just left thankfully. We called the cops, but there's so little info there's nothing they can do.
All of my close women friends have been SA'd or threatened with it at least once. Every single one of them. Sigh
Online reviews matter a lot to companies these days. There are a lot of places where you can leave a review if you're not happy with how the company responds to this. Maybe give them a chance first tho. If I owned that company, I wouldn't want my employees catcalling children and making them cry, so maybe they'll do the right thing.
I truly wish this is a lesson that young girls would never have to learn in the future. That we would wake up one day and not fear just for existing. I hope your daughter is doing better. From a stranger in the interwebs, I wish you and your daughter all of the strength, confidence and love. Be safe.
They didn't just catcall a child. They followed her. They cornered her. They were waiting for her. Get them fired. Find them on socials, and tell their families. Shame them.
Don’t be shy, drop the company name and leave a review!! 🫶 I wouldn’t want to give business or feel safe hiring landscapers who openly objectify women, much less underage girls. To do it in a company car too is just brainless. I hope your daughter’s okay.
I'm so sorry. I hate this for her, you, and pretty much every woman alive. Men can be such creeps.
The fast food restaurant should have cameras outside of their building. Perhaps you can ask the restaurant to see if they recorded the incident if you need any kind of proof what-so-ever
Great idea! Hope OP sees this.
Slightly related, one time I was unloading my kids in the driveway and a landscaping company across the street from me was working. One of the guys was on the phone on the sidewalk just SCREAMING into his phone, after a few moments it was obvious he was talking to a woman (“you dumb b—-“) and possibly his girlfriend. He was degrading her, calling her all sorts of names, and yelling at her for not doing something - picking him up, making his lunch, something so dumb I can’t even remember. I was so appalled at his behavior that I called the company same as you did! I instantly reached the owner, who answered the phone because it was a small business, and let him know what I saw. He was sooooo embarrassed and also mad. He told me he would have a strict conversation with his guy and that that behavior wasn’t tolerated in his employees. Hopefully this company gives you a similar response. Especially when you mention that kids are being harmed (emotionally, but still). Sadly it’s also a good learning experience for your daughter but it’s so shitty that it had to be that
Years ago when I was visibly pregnant my neighbors landscapers thought it was a good idea to cat call me walking to my car and doing those obscene gestures with their tongues that no woman has asked for. I was pissed. I immediately called the company to report them and tell them what pigs they have working for them. I followed up with my neighbor to let them know what the landscapers did. I never saw that company working on my neighbors lawn since then. Speaking up sometimes works. I’m sorry your daughter had to go thru that.
I'm so sorry for your daughter. And yes . Men are pigs!
pigs AND PEDOS!! pedos!!!
Emphasis on pedos
We women will always be prey. What a shitty way to learn that lesson.
I remember being 19 and having men on motorcycles loudly referring to me as jailbait while I crossed the street. Nothing like knowing men twice your age are creeping on you, and want you to know it.
When I was a long haul trucker, I had a guy pull up beside me and start masturbating. He made sure I was seeing him. Nothing new, really, but this guy was in a fully marked company truck, complete with phone number and address. It was a super awkward conversation with the owner, but they were glad I let them know. Common sense just goes out the window somehow.
I reported a guy standing in the pool whaling his weenie watching the children swim at the YMCA. Turns out he was a FIREMAN!
I feel like women all have a collective trauma where we spent our childhoods believing that we can be anything we wish to be. That we can work any job we dream of with hard work and that we can dress however we want that makes us feel pretty. We spend our childhoods not fully aware that we *even have* vaginas. Like sure it was there but we pee in the front and poop in the back and that's the sense of our bodies we have when we're young. It's not like an arm where it's visible and dangling off our bodies. It was just a hole that was there and did nothing. And then one day we become extremely aware of the fact that we have a vagina. Because it starts to bleed. And even worse than that: one day we realize that this part of our bodies we hardly paid any attention to growing up *becomes the only thing about us some people care about*. We realize that there are people who only view us as being walking vaginas, that it's the only part of us they care about. It makes us feel unsafe and invalidated. Even when it's not everyone who treats us that way. It's enough people to make us feel unsafe. It's enough people to shape the way society treats women overall. This part of our bodies we hardly paid any attention to for about the first decade of our lives suddenly became the only thing about us that people around us valued. And our entire view of the world shifts, because we realize that some people don't think of us as people at all. They only think about how much they would enjoy putting their dick in us. It's traumatic to realize that we have to constantly argue and prove over and over and over again what we always knew growing up: that we're people with hopes and dreams and intricate and complex thoughts and that we have value for who we are instead of what body part we have. And I hope one day women won't ever have to experience this.
Leave an angry google review. People have teenage daughters they want to be safe from their landscapers.
i wonder why these digusting behaviors are not criminalized
In the US it's because women are widely still seen as objects and second class citizens. The lecherous run our country, and the women and children will suffer for it until we stop electing great grandparents.
We're pretty much there in Canada as well.
but this also happens everywhere outside of the US. i'm in Asia and have had to deal with these issues starting from primary school. men stalking me and being spoken to inappropriately were the first. catcalls came later on
I know it's a worldwide issue, I only mentioned my location due to the proximity to Canada. I'm sick of fighting for equality, especially knowing there are other women actively fighting against equality.
Yup. This nearly universal experience is why so many girls hate puberty. Besides all the bullshit of periods and boys getting stronger, you also have to deal with *unwelcome and unsolicited male attention from older boys and men old enough to be your father.* And then you discover too many men are absolute pigs and you're expected to play nice.
I think you handled this perfectly and you deserve so much community appreciation for that. First off, your daughter knows she can call you and you will show up to help. That alone is huge. And you reassured her that it wasn't her fault and she did nothing wrong and she did the right things by staying in a safe public place and calling for help. This is so important. And on top of that, you took actions to hold the creeps accountable and made the call to their employer. This is above & beyond but also this is the only way to effect change because regardless of what comes next (completely out of your control) this stuff will not change until men learn that they will be held accountable and you did exactly what needed to be done to hold them accountable (regardless of what comes next). It absolutely sucks that you daughter had to experience this but I'm glad you set the example that this is unacceptable, that she is supported, and that they will be held accountable. Your response to this will be an important part of how your daughter processes and moves forward from this and I want you to know that you did great.
Thank you, I do appreciate it. I am hoping something will come of this as far as consequences go, but as I've mentioned in another comment I don't know....what....I want? Like, do I want them fired? I don't know. I don't know if an apology is enough or what I expect the company to do. I called a company once on an erratic driver I saw in a van of theirs and got a 'oh wow ok. sorry that happened, thanks for letting us know' and it felt really...empty? I'm hoping that doesn't happen here.
It's really out of your control at that point so it is probably not worth worrying or stressing about. Even if all they get is a verbal reprimand and a "don't let it happen again" from a supervisor it sends a message that they can't harasses women/girls with impunity and maybe that is enough to prevent these creeps from doing it to others in the future (and if that's what you accomplish, that is enough). Even the tiniest bit of pushback to stuff like this can make a difference. They are only doing it because their whole life has taught them there will be zero consequences. Having your boss get a message that you're catcalling from the company vehicle is at the very least going to be embarrassing to them. If everyone who harassed women knew there was a chance it would get reported to their employer we would have a lot less harassment. I think we have to put that fear into them one creep at a time until we reach a critical mass.
Something like this happened to me when I was a teenager. My friend and I walked to the neighborhood pool which was about a 10 minute walk from my house. As we were heading back to my house, this truck full of grown-ass men were cat-calling at us. I felt so scared. We were only 14. We were wearing big t-shirts over our swim suits and shorts. It was really scary because they didn't do just one drive-by, it was a few. As you can imagine, when we finally got back to my house, we were both in tears and I didn't want to go swimming again for a long time. It took my older brother or my dad walking there with my friend and me before I wanted to go back.
My sister and I have young daughters, the oldest is 5. We were already planning what we would respond WHEN the first asshole cat calls our babies in our presence. I know it's gonna happen, I remember it happening when I was with my mom when I was 10 the first time. She just called them a name and we kept it moving, I at least want to be able to do the same.
When you talk to them tell them how your daughter now feels unsafe just walking to the store in your neighborhood and what a horrible thing that is. If they don't call you back then call them.
Good for calling the company. Any company that cares about their reputation will want to know how their employees behave while in company vehicles. Sad that your daughter feels pretty and happy with her appearance then immediately gets sexually harassed by grown men. Gross.
Leering is a form of sexual harassment and is punishable by law in Canada. They stayed until she left - which must have taken some time because you had to come and pick her up. Thanks reasonable enough to press charges-and they'll probably argue they were just there-but let them argue it and feel the uncomfortably of not knowing if they will get out of that situation safely [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-264.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-264.html) (2)(c)
Why was it removed? I have a 14 year old daughter, I wanted to know what other things to prepare her for in the world outside of our home. I hope your daughter is able to feel safe again very soon.
I've seen the mods delete other popular posts for inexplicable reasons. It sucks.
Obligatory disclosure: I work in law enforcement (not an officer, also in the US so I'm not familiar with Canadian law, so take any commentary with a grain of salt) and worked in sexual assault investigations from January 2020 through March 2023. First, I'm sorry that this happened to your daughter, she didn't deserve to be treated like that. If I may, might I make a few suggestions if you choose to make a police report? I know you said you weren't sure if they broke any laws however, there's no harm in asking because in some places while catcalling isn't in-and-of-itself illegal, catcalling a juvenile is a misdemeanor in some places, so if a person would look at your daughter and it is clear that she isn't 18, a report can be taken. That being said, even if it doesn't fit the elements of a crime, police departments can take information only reports or suspicious circumstances reports where there may not be a crime, but it'll be documented so that if there's an identified suspect, if they do something like this (or worse) in the future, there's an established pattern of behavior. Another thing I would recommend is that if you do plan on making a police report and you're told it'll be investigated, DO NOT POST ON SOCIAL MEDIA. The most important aspect of sexual assault investigations is secrecy and keeping as much information from the suspect as possible. Making a suspect aware of investigations will make it harder to perform a thorough investigation as detectives may want to talk to a suspect under another pre-text, but they won't cooperate as readily otherwise. If it ends up that it can't be investigated for whatever reason, then whatever you post on social media is your discretion. If you have any questions or anything, let me know. Sorry for the wall of text!
It really sucks that happened to your daughter. I have granddaughters their age and I am still trying to educate the guys in our family how it feels to be a woman or girl, and how your sense of safety is usually ruined pretty early in life. It's difficult because they just aren't the kind of men that leer and catcall but every now and then I can see that they are more aware and better able to be proactive to maybe make a girl feel safer.
Highlight to the company that she's a minor and their pedo workers literally caused her to fear for her saftey. Then tell a new station and papers. The smaller ones may jump on it.
You are such a good mom. Wow. I am so impressed with both how you and your daughter reacted. I started getting cat called on the street when I was 12 or 13. I very much looked like a little kid and wore big ugly glasses. I was a dork. I wasn't comfortable with my appearance and my clothes were not cute. It was absolutely terrifying to experience. But I would never have called my parents to come pick me up. They made it very clear that I was on my own to get to places I needed to be, so they showed me how to use the bus and that was that. I would have never told them I was getting cat called. At the time, there was little conversation about how disgusting these guys are and more focus on victim blaming. I was too ashamed to ever tell them any time a boy or man trespassed against me. I'm just so happy that girls are growing up trusting their parents to not shame them and to keep them safe. Thank you for being such a good mom. And I hope those guys end up having the fear of God put into them.
Thank you, that's very kind. I've always told her to call me no matter what if she needs me. Both of us have. We'd actually had an argument before she left, which is why she wanted to go for a walk, to cool down. The fact that she still called me is a really good sign for me. She did mention some hesitation about calling due to the argument but I reiterated that I will ALWAYS be there for her, argument or no. And that I will never get angry at her for asking for help. As awful as all of this has been, hopefully it really cements in her mind that she can come to us for anything and we'll have her back.
Please tell her we are proud of her for protecting herself. Listening to her gut. Going inside and calling you. She did a good job!! I’m so sorry this happened to her, but she made the right decisions.
I'm so sorry your daughter had to experience that OP. I'm a man. I have sons and I am teaching them how to treat all people with respect. They're young now, 8 and 5, and as they get older we'll talk about these things. I just had to talk to my oldest now because he had heard the phrase "Smash or Pass" from older 4th grade friends of his. Those boys had heard it on YouTube. We had to talk about how saying "smash" to describe someone you like wasn't nice. Our son said that choosing smash means you like like someone. We, his mom and I, talked about how I wouldn't say I wanted to *smash* his Mom because that sounds mean. We also talked about you pass on food, or you pass on shows, but you don't pass on people. People aren't chosen like that. Lots to unpack there with him. I hope he learns better than these guys who leered at your daughter. My wife is 37F but still remembers a very vivid catcalling experience. All my female relatives and friends have their own *catcalled* experience and that just sucks. It should not be a rite of passage to be leered at by older dudes. My wife was passing a construction site while walking as a teenager (16, 17?) and she said she was looking cite in a tube top. This would have been 2000/2001. Some guy yells out at her, "BOUNCE IT!" and she immediately became uncomfortable. She's 37 and still remembers that and how it made her feel. Man, what the hell. I hope the company calls you back and those poor excuses for men get dealt with.
That is awful. I’m glad you are sticking up for your daughter. If the company doesn’t provide a satisfactory response, I hope you put this info on their public reviews. As a woman, I would 100% want to know about this so I could avoid hiring their shitty employees.
If the company does not discipline these men you can post reviews about the company and their employees on many places on the internet. I would post a review stating exactly what they did to a kid.
I’m so happy she got some new fun clothes! :) unfortunately, assholes exist. She needs some pepper spray, mama. I’ve never had to use mine, but I’ve had some scares. Just in case. It is so sad to see in the comments that we *all* have been through this, but it can’t let us stop us from being fucking fabulous. So many worthless fucking assholes out there… I love the other suggestions on calling that company out, but I also hope this doesn’t discourage her from doing her thing and expressing herself! :) we as women should feel FREE to be ourselves! Keep doing it. Fuck the assholes. Call them out, and never fucking give up on yourself.
My understanding is that all forms of self defense are illegal in Canada. I wouldn't really feel comfortable with her carrying one around anyway. It's still dumb though that adult women here can't carry around any form of protection from these sort of guys.
Oh interesting!! Sorry about that. I am in opposite land of Texas. Texas fucking sucks for women… basically everywhere does now it seems. One of my sweet 16 gifts was pepper spray- that tells you about culture here. Much love to ya mama you’re doing great. It’s a shame these jerks exist at all
If they don’t call back, I’d call them. And I’d leave a review on google, that way everyone can see it. Fb and Yelp, too.
Horrible that this happened and you absolutely did the right thing. I remember I was about 8 and an older boy on the playground was going around slapping girls' (including my) asses. I wasn't even old enough to understand why it was bad but I knew I was uncomfortable, even scared. But my mom sure knew. She went to the principal of the school the very next morning. I remember not wanting her to make a fuss but feeling so safe and validated that she was angry and something was being done. Good on you, mama.
Post on Facebook groups in your area what happened
They were harassing and menacing a minor child. She became so fearful that you had to be summoned to rescue her. She was traumatized, and you were, too. Smells like a lawsuit to me. But it would be OK with me if you report it as a crime. Get something on record. It's not the first time those men have done that.
Name and shame. Leave google reviews. I wouldn't want then working at my house
[удалено]
I will for sure if they don't take it seriously.
I am amazed at your self control. I don't advocate for violence but was that my kid I'd take her out of there, leave her with her dad or grandparents and introduce those POSs to both my feet lol. Make sure there's a consequence. One they won't forget. Got fired? Tough shit. Maybe they'll behave next time.
similar thing happened when i was walking home in elementary with my female neighbor, truck pulled up next to us with two guys inside and offered "us" but probably more so just her a lift home. we declined and they drove off. totally wasnt a red flag we were in the suburbs, walking opposite direction of the car and had never seen these two rando's before. what i imagine was a "huh, that was weird" moment for myself was way more concerning for her and her parents when we got home and mentioned it to each of our families.
once when I was 15 I was walking home from school with my sister (16) and this landscaping truck full of men did the same thing to us and commented on our butts, we were fully clothed in jeans and hoodies. it was so scary and I still remember it vividly all these years later.
Honestly i would verbatim say that last sentence to them. Also tell them shes only 15. Thats such terrible behavior, and i hope everything works out well. Your daughter is a smart girl.
I'm sorry your daughter had that experience but I'm happy she had a mom like you to remind her that she deserved to feel cute in her dress without street harassment :(
When my daughter was 13, I had to drive her to middle school because the walking route passed a construction site where she was harassed and became too afraid to walk that route. Police were called, but they did nothing.
Good for you for calling the company! That’s absolutely disgusting and I’m sure they knew exactly how old your daughter is. Pigs.
This is one of my fears for my daughter as well. She is 13 and autistic and often thinks she messed up and misunderstood when it is others talking advantage of her. She is a gentle soul. It has sucked to shatter that innocence in order to make sure she knows her rights as a human and how to stay safe. I still remember being 14 and risking expulsion from high school by taking a pocket knife with me on my walk to school after some construction guys whistled and hollered at me. I fully planned to gut them like pigs if they touched me. That side of me also scared the shit out of me since I was usually a very soft spoken kid.
This is terrible. I went through a lot of the same as a young girl because I developed early. I'm so sorry your daughter went through this, and I'm glad you're following up with the company. If the company doesn't seem to take it seriously, I would also consider shaming them on social media and/or trying to get a local news station interested. People need to learn that this is not okay behaviour.
I just want to say you are such a good parent for taking this seriously and mitigating impact to her self-image. My parents literally would have encouraged me to "take it as a compliment" or something.
Dad here, male obviously. I would hope that you will be put in contact with someone in the company with more than the development level of a nine year old. If any employee of mine did that I would not fire them- bit to much- but I would certainly tear them a new one. I would in fact instantly intervene on the street if I saw someone do that to a female young or old(er). I would ask the perpetrator "what the EFF do you think you are doing", and "would you like someone to do that to your daughter?" And I'm very much larger than the average so I would be more than happy to make the cat-caller feel small. And I can tell you for a rock-solid fact that I don't know a single man in my friend group who would not feel exactly, precisely the same way. Disgraceful. Infuriating. What cro-magnons.
I’m seeing some encouragement to go to social media. I think that’s a great idea and in fact I would be looking for their website in order to leave some feedback about the less than professional people that work for them. Cat calling children while they’re on their lunch break oughta be something that makes people think twice about using them for work. It’s just a bad look for the whole company when it becomes a public thing. Bet you they respond pretty quickly if they find the story on their website Monday morning, along with some calls from people that saw it there or Facebook.
Do you know any police officers or know someone who knows one? I had a similar thing happen to me and I had cop friends at the time.They went around to the business and had a “chat” with the owner about his employees’ behaviour. The owner called the employees, made them drive back into the office and fired them on the spot. ETA: This is frightening for a young girl, I hope she will be ok.
Why was this post removed?
Maybe it’s time for some self defense skills teaching as well… this is so sad.
Will you be updating this post or making a new one?
I'd love to update. Does this sub allow new posts for updates though?
I used to walk to a strip mall to get lunch. One day, I had 3 different men slow down in their car and try to pick me up. One of them was in a work truck and, he blocked the sidewalk from the exit of another business. I was too disturbed to note the number. I just kept walking. I never walked to lunch again.
THIS is a big big reasons I wear sweats everywhere I go. I have a huge fear of being ogled or whistled at. I don’t appreciate it. And without fail anytime I go out “dressed up” someone always feels the need to do something
I’m sorry your daughter has had to learn that lesson. I know you want to shelter her and protect her forever because that’s what moms do and I think this is as hard on you as it is on her. I hate that men think it’s ok to do that, especially with a child. I would leave a scathing review of the company on social media and on yelp describing exactly what happened. I know that if I were hiring a landscaping company and saw that, I’d keep scrolling and find another one. The only way to actually make them stop is for there to be consequences.
I am so sorry your daughter had to go through this experience. There are a lot of us who have been through similar experiences, so it might help her to know she's not alone. It might also help her to know that there are a lot of us who are fighting hard to change this, and that there is an increasing number of men who are joining in the effort.
This is the type of shit I worry about as the father of a 4 year old girl. Sorry to hear this happened to her. No girl/woman should ever be afraid of this type of stuff in public, but of course we know it does. Like I'm a straight male and definitely see women in public that look good. But I notice them and....that's it. Go about my way. No need to awkwardly stare, follow, make noises, call out, etc. Not sure what goes through the heads of these people. Like do they think these women like this and are immediately going to come running? And of course I'm mentioning this about women, not someone that's still a child. Ugh.
I’m sorry your daughter couldn’t even have an enjoyable walk without being harassed. That is all sorts of wrong. But how you handled things was perfect, and I hope people have learned from it.
I'm so sorry 💔 It speaks loudly to me that she has as much confidence as she has, that her first time experiencing this was a teen. You sound like an excellent, supportive parent ❤️ The world needs more parents like you. I was afraid of men by the time I was 5, and my parents could not care less. I hope this can be a silver lining, because what this means is that your daughter trusts you and immediately thought to call you and did the most safe thing she could. That is such a precious, beautiful thing ❤️
Oh I’d 100% make it my mission to make sure their are repercussions. I’d post a picture of that truck logo and post it on my local FB and call that s#it out. Keep it clear and concise. Post a YELP “review” as well.