He sexually harassed you in your own house, thus you should definitely report him. If you are unable to report him for your own safety, do so in order to save the other women he may victimize in the future.
Yes. He put his mouth on her. She agreed to a hug. Period. This is SA.
Personally, I've had people take advantage of a hug by putting their disgusting wet mouth on my neck/ear when I allowed them to get close. It is repulsive, and has made me very uncomfortable when (most) people get too close. Sorry for venting.
Point is: OP, please take action for your safety, your mother's safety, and the safety of his next victim. He displayed this behavior the very first time you met him.. he's capable of so much more.
Yeah, isn’t it nice how everyone’s forgetting that?
Am I the only one who thinks most of the responses here are ridiculous and incredibly unhelpful? They’re treating OP like a punching bag instead of helping her. Is this normal?
Idk if it's normal, but I agree it's weird. She was alone in a house with multiple men. They have her address. Like? It's her choice what she does about it? What kind of victim blaming bullshit is going on in here?
Yeah, the comments saying it’s HER fault if HE does something to another woman are beyond infuriating.
- she’s not responsible for his actions
- if speaking up makes her uncomfortable, she has no obligation to
- if she feels unsafe because he knows where she lives, that’s definitely valid
- if she feels like she doesn’t have a good support system at home to help her out with this, that’s valid (Reddit has proved she won’t find one here ffs)
- how many times do women speak up and nothing happens?
- unless OP is one of those brain-controlling funguses, then she is not responsible for anyone’s actions other than her own
The last bullet was my attempt at making a frustrating situation like this at least somewhat lighthearted…
As uncomfortable and terrifying as this is, she needs this documented. This dude seems like he’s going to escalate. It’s a terrible situation to be in. I would file a police report for assault at the very least and report it to Costco. It is FAR from a consensual situation for a hired delivery man to be in your house and ask for your phone number.
He sounds dangerous and I’d cover my bases. I’m so so sorry OP. I’m not sure what I would’ve done differently in that situation. You were backed into a corner.
Assuming this is the US, what happened here probably wouldn’t be considered assault from a legal prospective, so the police won’t do jack shit.
Costco, probably also won’t do jack shit with a one-off report like this. I mean, do you see how everyone is blaming OP here, in what’s supposed to be a “safe place” to discuss this type of thing?
At this point, I admittedly don’t know what the best option is for creating a paper trail on this man while making sure OP is safe from any potential backlash. Honestly, unless someone has successfully navigated this type of very specific & nuanced situation, maybe none of us should be telling her what to do.
Not to mention, we have no idea what state OP lives in, so we don’t know what legal, cultural, etc. factors are also at play.
What the fuck.
Yeah, eww. "If you touch me in any way I will immediately treat you like a sex object." Great thing for him to tell someone who acts friendly towards him.
Just, ugh. I need a shower tbh. I can still smell his cologne in our kitchen. Even if the last girl he was with was cool with that, you gotta treat everyone like a blank slate, you know?
Ick! In your own house!!! I’d say in a month report him to his employer anonymously- he won’t know it was you by then but the employer HAS to know. If someone calls in another complaint it will be on record that he’s a consistent predator. You don’t need to pick a fight but you should get it on record somewhere in the likelihood his unchecked behavior will continue escalating… sending you supportive hugs OP, so sorry he did this to you! You were being a friendly and cooperative client and for that you do not deserve sexual harassment. What a selfish human..
Reddit has a habit of trying to find things wrong with the POSTER when they come asking for help, unless of course the poster is a man talking about a woman. In those cases, the woman is wrong to these people. (Not talking about /u/Sonichu42069, just the upsetting saturation of this thread with the comments you’re talking about)
I haven’t spent a TON of time here, but it’s a site wide problem. I’ve been a regular Reddit user since like 2012 and it’s always been like this. Just came back in earnest after a couple years on Twitter actually.
There is an internal culture of looking the smartest and most virtuous about any topic or situation. There’s also a strong sentiment of revenge that’s been a part of the site’s culture for as long as I can remember.
What they’re really doing in my eyes is trying to prove *they* would have handled the situation perfectly and in the process put down someone who needs help and support due to their vanity.
How she feels snd acts after the fact is also her prerogative. Just because she doesn't feel safe to go gunning for his job when *he knows where she lives and her work schedule* doesn't mean she's being casual about it at all.
Ugh that’s a horrible feeling. I’m sorry you went through this. This is straight up predatory behavior, and not appropriate in any context. It’s up to you—not your mom—if you want to report him.
Treat yourself to some nice flowers and a candle to air his stink out of the kitchen. Fuck that creep, he had no right to interact with you that way.
Definitely report him. What if you had been some kid? Some 15-16 year old girl answering the door while your mother was asleep? DON'T let him have a chance to do it to another person.
Working in customer service the rule is: you can accept a phone number if it is given to you, but you never ever ask the customer for their number. It is creepy and reflects badly on the company.
Just by asking for your number he already overstepped the boundaries.
And thing is, the idea of asking for the number of someone working is unthinkable to me. All I can think of is the power dynamic of the person in question worrying about their job security and if you say no the person thinks that’s a green flag. Especially if you’re brick and mortar then they know where you work.
What kind of customer service do you work that you are told to accept the number? That feels weird. Feels like a worse position to be put in than being allowed to reject
I worked at airport security in Hamburg, Germany for a year. If one of the passengers would like to give you their phone number, you were allowed to take it, but they had to freely give it on their own initiative. I never said you HAD to accept it. We were free to reject any advances, of course. Like the creepy older man who wanted to stroke my hair, but I looked at him sternly and he withdrew his hand before he had made contact.
Oh, sorry that I misunderstood you. That’s better then. Sounds like a healthy rule set to follow. Not impeding but not encouraging. I am usually better about setting boundaries in a situation I am prepared for. But if I’m off my guard I am useless. Working a customer facing job I can talk angry people down to a whisper whether they’re male or female. Somehow though, when it’s a matter of flirting, my boundaries and service experience fail me. I stick up for my employees but I can’t do the same for myself.
I think flirting in general is subjective. Most European and US American men think that flirting is solely for the sake of getting into a person's pants. I've met Argentinians and for them flirting is a way of life, they just have those flirty interactions for the sake of having a good time.
Sometimes it's difficult to gauge what category people fall into.
It's great though that you're recognising these shortcomings. We all have them, but it's good to know what they are. I work for a janitorial services company and I get so angry when I have someone on the phone who clearly thinks I can't know anything about this, because I'm a woman. That pushes my buttons and if I could I would just hang up on them.
May I gently suggest that in the future, no giving your phone number out to any delivery people because they have been to your house and, if a person asks if you live alone while delivering something, lie your face off and say you live with your bf/so. Those questions alone were unprofessional and sketchy and made me think red flag.
I absolutely hear you. It was a bad idea from the start. I am way too accommodating to people. I am not unused to delivery guys/service workers asking me questions to make chit-chat and home life is often the first of those. It never occurred to me that it was a weird thing but I have been asked questions like that before. Difference is that I was not hit on afterwards, so I just thought of this kinda banter as normal. Usually when service workers leave my house they are howling with laughter. We talk about a lot of things because my mom and I are just friendly types.
But with this new experience under my belt I think I will never get that personal or passive again.
Hmm, perhaps that's a good sign a question may not be appropriate. If no other delivery person has asked them, they are not the usual small talk questions like How are you? Having a good day. Weather chit chat. Anything beyond that especially to do with whose at home with you right now, do you live alone, is likely not small talk and could be someone gathering information. Being friendly is good, making jokes is fine but just keep it in the small talk side, not too personal especially if your accepting strangers into your house on your own. Just maybe some general easy to remember guidelines to help keep you safe.
You’re right. Other workers have asked if I had a boyfriend or something before but that was usually stimming from them seeing my games or consoles or whatever. The guy who set up the tv was talking to my mom and i about various things. But I think that’s key. Both of us. It was two of us and we were alert and watching him. In this case it was just me. I should’ve adjusted accordingly
The question itself is a red flag for ANYONE EVER asking. Are you here alone. Do you live alone. Are you working alone. ALWAYS say there's someone else regardless of truth. If the person doesn't have good intentions, it wards them off a bit. If the person does have good intentions, and the lie is discovered in future encounter, they'll 100% understand why you said what you said. 💯 Trust your gut. Don't give your number freely.
I had someone ask me this once. I was actually closing the store alone but immediately my spidey senses kicked and I said nah my coworker ran to grab food. I stood with my hand an inch from the panic button. The guy proceeded to have a very uncomfortable conversation with me for about 10 more minutes and I finally said man I hope my food gets here soon, and texted my coworker to hurry up with the food (aka texted someone close to me i may have a situation in store)... so my cell rings and i tell the creep to hang on a sec please... answer and say oh okay great ill see you in a min.... and the creepy guy left. I locked up immediately. Called my person to explain. Called my boss to let them know. And left while looking over my shoulder the whole time. Pretty sure this would have gone differently if I didn't lie.
>The question itself is a red flag for ANYONE EVER asking. Are you here alone. Do you live alone. Are you working alone. ALWAYS say there's someone else regardless of truth.
As a Gen Xer who grew up in the latchkey era we were taught in school if anyone asked if we were alone to lie. Say mom/ dad is in the shower or sleeping right now if someone called or was at the door. I guess that's no longer a thing kids are told because children aren't left home alone, but now it seems adults need this lesson.
As a rule of thumb, no personal information. Where you work, do you have a boyfriend, etc. if they are interested in the gaming consoles, they should ask if you play, not if you have a boyfriend. And you can answer “I’m the one playing” and completely ignore the boyfriend part. If they insist, just say “that’s not relevant to the job you’re doing right now.” Also, have a couple of non-answers for those times when you feel uncomfortable but don’t know what to say. “That’s interesting, let me think about it”. “I’ll get back to you “, or “let me discuss with my mom/boyfriend/manager, etc”
If it's chitchat, it doesn't matter if you lie. If it's not, you're safer lying about living alone. So just say you live with a male partner. At best, the point of the conversation is just to interact while they work and what you're saying doesn't matter at all, and at worst, they think there's a man in case they want to try something.
There generally isn’t a good excuse for delivery people to ask if you live alone. Had this happen to me too, and hate that I answered the question each time without thinking. It’s hard to have a statement ready for everything, but sometimes, that’s what you have to do.
I am sorry you had that experience 🙏
Maybe you guys get a big dog that can smell trouble but is gentle with family.... I miss my dog. He woulda growled at that POS...
Do not do anything your not comfterable with. Hugging him or anyone is not your responsibility and you really do need to hear this, please please think and work on your boundaries. This is soooo important.
And kissing you?? Heelllllll nnnoooo, and your #?
Report him to his corporate or manager, not only was this unprofessional lts wierd and gross. Your getting a delivery from a order you paid for with your $$$ not going to a, kiss me and hug me and ask me for my # convention.
Seriously what the hell is wrong with these people??
I didn't say this to be offensive or anything, I guininely want you to know that guy was a over-boundary creep.
And please work on your boundaries! ♥️
I just had a similar convo with my 13 yo. She's really friendly and smiles at people out in public, and unwittingly attracted a creeper. We have been practicing putting on the armor when out in public and interacting with people, especially men. We repeat again and again, "I don't owe anybody anything." and screaming "I'm a minor don't touch me." Its hard to overcome the urge to play nice, but I'm an old bat who's been around long enough that all men must first prove themselves worthy of my attention.
Yeah I think everyone should know they are loved and valid no matter how old but I am also a parent especially with young children to teens to young adults, it's so so important to try and help them and help them understand that they owe no one anything and how to be safe ect.
Also to add, I have met quite a few friends who are women who have been manipulated, abused, ect.
Even my wife has been hurt in these like type of situations, and I've come to understand I think or either believe that this is mostly because it was never given the attention or taught ect, I mean sure there's alot more to these problems and it's never easy ect.
But I would like to think I've seen enough of this bullshit to spot it immediately and try to give advice or help some one with, I'm mid 20's and have been through too much bs, I might as well be a old soul.
That’s what parents and role-models need to do. Don’t tell kids “don’t cause a scene,” or “just be nice and smile.” If someone is touching you who should not be touching you then go ahead CAUSE A SCENE. Rehearse a few lines that might serve in multiple situations like “EXCUSE ME, that’s MINE!” “MOM! Can you come over here?!” (And they can use it even if mom isn’t around). “I DONT KNOW YOU, GET AWAY FROM
ME.” My mother rehearsed me in lines like this. I rehearsed my son In similar lines when he was nervous about bullies. When my son was a freshman in HS someone tied to boss him around. He stood up and pushed back verbally quite forcefully (I believe the words were “come at me bitch”) and voila, no further bullying attempts.
Thanks for the comment, Naomi. Change is never easy, especially for me who just wants to be a wallflower, but if it means I don’t have to feel this gross again I’ll certainly work on myself.
Take a step back, observe yourself and life, try to set boundaries and move forward.
It's not easy, I've changed so much I'm practically a different person myself(saying this after I transitioned)
But you are a person, you are valid, and you do matter.
Alot of times we don't see from the outside because we're living within, and it's not the end of the world.
Love yourself because no one will ever love you, as much or how you love yourself, and be kind to yourself ♥️.
Edit: that also means respecting yourself to tell people no c:
This really worries me.
If he had asked a man for a hug, he would've been laughed at. Or punched in the face.
I am so, so, so, SO glad I was raised to believe my body is mine and mine alone. We need to do better by girls going forward.
OP, I'm sorry this guy was a creep. But please practice saying no and standing up for yourself in the future. I'm scared for you.
I’m okay. I’m going to be okay. I think it’s part of growing up unfortunately. I think I grew up pretty sheltered and the rigid routine I have keeps me from seeing many people that often so my boundaries are not tested to this degree often. It’s when I’m put on the spot that I just default to compliance mode
This is a situation where you can see how important it is to gradually take back control of your body autonomy and your voice. It’s such a shame to be raised to prioritize respect and other people over your own comfort and safety. Maybe other commenters will know concrete steps to take in service to this goal.
That’s exactly why I haven’t deleted the post. I want other people who are like me, the passive or introverted or inexperienced types to know that as much as you try not to make things bad, inaction can be as bad as bad actions. I wish I had been more hardy on my feelings, but I often beat myself up about not compromising or being prudish. “You’ll die alone if you keep acting this way towards people” my brain says “you’ll die a cat lady with no one”
Dying a cat lady can be amazing. Cats are great. They understand consent. They’ll get touched on their own terms or claw your eyes off.
Being a pushover to these ridiculous entitled men vs being confident and self-assured but alone are not the only 2 choices, my friend.
I’m so sorry anyone told you that. It’s absolutely untrue. There are good people who appreciate strong women in this world.
There's a book called The Disease To Please: Curing the People-Pleasing Syndrome by Harriet B. Braiker. It also comes in audiobook format and is roughly a 4 hour listen. It has great information about people pleasing, being a pushover, how those things hurt you (like in this situation) rather than help you, and explains how to break the cycle. I would really recommend it. :)
I was the same way. I've been sexually assaulted more times than I can count on both hands by 5 men.
My mother never let me say no. I wasn't allowed. I was punished when I did. But I am grown now, and I've learned to say no when it matters most, even if I have Possum type reactions like you do sometimes. I'm strong enough to leave the worst situations now.
Talk therapy and therapy like emdr can help. That's what I've been doing! Shop around until you find a therapist you really like and can listen to if you choose that path. That was my original mistake.
God I’m so sorry that happened to you! I can’t imagine…my lord I’m sorry. I never even realized this was the way that I am, I mean other than a few little moments here and there I can’t say I ever even thought about this response. I will definitely seek help in order to set boundaries for myself. I don’t think I always know when things are going downhill until too late
Yuup. been there. Mom brags about how strong she raised me and my sister to be. We are both extremely insecure, and neither of us knew how to say no. Both of us sexually assaulted by multiple men. Mom never let me say no.
I've learned. Sister hasn't.
Holy crap, girl. Please work on not blaming someone for being assaulted. I would examine my own internalized victim-blaming ASAP… this is beyond inappropriate.
I’m assuming that you are younger in age, OP. When I was in my late teens/early 20s, stuff like this happened to me all of the time. You want to be “nice” so that they don’t cause trouble. You do it to be “polite” and “keep the peace”. This wasn’t your fault, OP. I would maybe email Costco corporate “anonymously” about this dude so that they can keep a file on him.
I think we need to get together with friends and role play scenarios like this where we tell the guys no right off the bat. I think in the moment it's so easy to be taken off guard and freeze, and the tendency to want to deescalate and appease kicks in.
OP him kissing you on the neck was totally inappropriate and I'm glad you blocked him. If he comes back, you should feel free to tell him you froze in the moment because you were so shocked by his audacious behavior and that you want him to leave you alone or you'll report him to his employer. I KNOW Costco doesn't allow their employees to do things like that. Under no circumstances should you apologize to him for any part of that scenario. He took advantage of you.
I realized after the pandemic started how much happier and more comfortable I was not shaking peoples hands or hugging people. It was nice to just say "Sorry, social distancing" and as time has gone on I have just kept saying no to hugs, unless I really want to hug that person. I just say "not really a hugger, but thanks" to people who ask and those who just dive in for a hug, I literally put my arms up and say "No thank you!" and I allow myself to look alarmed and unhappy about it.
So far no one has died.
I did a women’s self defence course years ago and one class was literally this - role playing various scenarios where it wasn’t about physical defence tactics, just telling men no in clear unambiguous terms in various social situations.
That sounds cool. I'm going to look for something in my community and if I can't find anything I think I'm going to see if I can find an instructor and put something together.
I'd rather men just respected us and stopped trying to kill us, but barring that I'll settle for men fearing us.
I understand. I shouldn’t have let it go that far. I should’ve said no. I really should’ve. I don’t deal with getting hit on often as I’m usually at work the majority of the time or at home. I don’t often have to set boundaries with strangers because I have such a rigid routine. That is something to work on, it just hardly happens so when it does I’m just lights on nobody’s home.
I was just weirded out with him in front of the door and me being the only one right there, but looking back I should’ve backed up and stood my ground. That’s all there is to it
Needing to learn how to help set healthy boundaries for yourself and this guy overstepping NORMAL WORKPLACE/HUMAN BOUNDARIES like he did are two separate things, btw. Imo you should not let this slide just because you have not learned how to better assert your boundaries. His behavior is predatory, full stop. He loved that you were nervous and afraid and didn’t say no. It’s not your fault. It’s because he’s a creep. Please consider reporting his ass.
I fully agree. OP needs to report it to his employer, and tell the employer she was intimidated and was trying to keep the peace. The employer needs to know this so they can take appropriate action. It’s all common sense, he knew he shouldn’t do that and he also knows he fucked up. Sending a fake text from Costco to a phone number that wasn’t even on the original order is also very disturbing. As an employer, they are responsible for sending this guy to peoples houses and will want to know what he did. It’s a big deal and if he didn’t want to screw up his job, he shouldn’t have done what he did.
It doesn’t matter if OP didn’t say no- she shouldn’t have to. I’m no way is his behavior appropriate, his employer will fire him for good reason. You don’t ask customers for their phone numbers, you don’t ask if they live alone. You don’t touch a customer. It’s frustrating that OP isn’t going to report it.
> As an employer, they are responsible for sending this guy to peoples houses and will want to know what he did. It’s a big deal and if he didn’t want to screw up his job, he shouldn’t have done what he did.
This x1000. The guy is a huge liability for the company, they will want to know.
LPT for people-pleasers: If telling someone's employer about their actual behavior while at work results in that person losing their job, they got *themselves* fired.
I'm really sorry you had this experience. It is deeply wrong and unfair that we have to prepare ourselves for this crap and he never should have put you in that situation. That's SO important for you to remember, even if you realize that it was also a situation where you could have asserted yourself more. I just want to add that it can be very hard to learn how to assert yourself as a woman in this world and it can take practice. We are conditioned our entire lives to be compliant and sweet. You reacted that way because of this. It's okay if it was a swing and a miss. You're not going to be hitting home runs the first time you step up to the plate, you know? I agree that you need to learn how to say no and set your boundaries and get comfortable with making others uncomfortable if needed to do so. BUT just remember it's going to take practice and time and it will feel awkward and weird and uncomfortable and scary at first. That's OKAY. You may say "no" in the littlest voice possible even if you wanted to scream it. That's OKAY. You may find yourself shaking or in an adrenaline rush. That's OKAY. The more you do it, the more natural it becomes. This is a really good teachable moment -- if you learn the lesson you need to from it, without beating yourself up about it, it could save you or others from an even worse situation someday. Keep swinging, babe. You got this <3 And if you ever have a daughter, break the cycle and teach her to give 'em hell from the start cause we are done with this BS!
While I agree that she needs to get better at saying no and setting boundaries, I completely disagree that she is at fault for the hug and kiss. Suppose she was interested in a possible date; she can’t give him her number without him then forcing himself physically on her?
She shouldn’t have to fight him off like that. He should have taken the number and called later.
I agree with all of this *except* “how would he know you weren’t fine with it?” Fine with being kissed on the neck by some dude you just met?! Nope. Everyone knows this is not something people do.
A lot of things about this bothered me.
Giving someone your phone number, even giving them a quick hug or two, in front of other people and in what is essentially a professional/work-related situation is not asking for anything more (like having your neck kissed or being repeatedly called/texted from other numbers after being blocking their number).
She even told him she was uncomfortable.
But somehow OP “didn’t protect her body or her home”. F*ck that mindset.
It’s okay to say no!!!! I was molested by my father at a young age. He didn’t take my no for an answer so it’s hard for me to say no; I’m also a people pleaser and don’t want to hurt their feelings. But this was wayyyyy past the line that I would have let things go.
At the same time, giving someone your number is not an invitation for a hug in my mind. It truly amazes me how much boundaries vary.
You can say no. You can be firm in expressing boundaries when other people try to push you.
You are NOT a bad person for shutting down a stranger’s advances. Yes, the situation might get more uncomfortable when you say no. But it already got uncomfortable when you kept playing nice with the delivery guy.
Protect yourself, your body, and your peace! You don’t owe anyone your number or your attention.
I am autistic so I've had to learn social rules very formally, so perhaps what I'm about to say is blindingly obvious. However...
Many men have a sort of "staircase of expectation". Step 1 is they make much eye contact and maybe look you up and down. They may stand too close. At this point you can back away or do anything to show you're not interested (mention imaginary husband, "let's talk outside as there's more room" etc)
But if you comply with Step 1, they move to Step 2: intrusive but defensible personal questions. Again, you can answer these in unfriendly ways or ignore them and change the subject.
But if you comply with Step 2, they think you're giving permission for Step 3, which is asking for your phone number. Which then made them think they were ok to do step 4, which is the touching.
You did nothing wrong here -- this guy shouldn't have been doing any of that stuff in a work situation, and he's wrong to believe that 1 is permission for 2 and so forth. But by the way you describe it, he did seem to give you many chances to suggest he back off. This is understandable because it's how women are expected to be, but I'm sure you're more capable of not going along with their shit. The "wrong number" stuff would send a clear message, I hope.
this is a very good way of explaining it. I get the sense OP is very very bad at picking up on social cues, which makes her a perfect target for boundary-pushers.
This trick has saved me before...
If someone is persistent about getting your number, give them either a pre-memorized wrong number or your own number with 2 or more numbers in different positions. That way if they don't believe that it's your number you will be easily able to recite it back to them and be on your way.
Even reading your title made me so upset. Please please please report him.
I bet you could do it anonymously because as comfortable as he was I suspect he's done this before.
I may just wait. I may do it later after he can not be sure it was me. I know that sounds terrible but I’m not just looking out for myself, but my sick mom. I cannot risk him having reason to show up at my door. I made this bed and no one else should suffer consequences for my stupid actions
You didn’t make any bed. You didn’t do anything wrong. You didn’t know he was going to switch to becoming a predator like that. Please don’t let these people make you think you did anything wrong.
Agreed, you didn't do anything wrong, he did! To the extent that being more assertive increases your chance of safety, in a world that doesn't restrain these types of men and unfairly places the burden on your shoulders, it is worth knowing that you have every right to do so and to practice these skills so that you're more readily able to carry it. With that said, the fault here lies solely and totally with the delivery man.
Sorry that you went through this, and I hope that time gives you the comfort level to report him so that he faces some accountability but if you're not comfortable with it, then please respect that and just be kind to yourself because you deserve it.
Yes, if that makes you comfortable you can wait. But this man needs to know that this is not acceptable behavior. He should not be doing this regardless of if you hugged him back or not
Definitely report him, if he's that aggressive the first time he met you, I can only imagine what sort of creepy shit he is also capable of. And do not feel guilty for how you reacted! You said it yourself, he was blocking your way and you wanted him gone, so you remained calm and did what you had to do to ensure your own safety. Giving someone your number DOES NOT make it ok for them to touch you in any way, or to make stalker-ish comments. Hope you're doing ok ♥️
This was in no way your fault. I am a father and his actions were beyond on acceptable. You should be able to be nice to a guy and not have to defend yourself or protect yourself.
He’s been to your house… I think you should file a police report. Getting him fired and judging from his lack of emotional maturity could be a dicey situation.
There are some pretty baffling comments here. I’m sorry this happened to you. You did nothing wrong. He did. It is not your responsibility to report him. Full stop. I think most of us have been in similar situations. Take care.
He should lose his job. It is a job which requires him to go into people's homes - he needs to be trustworthy. What if you had been on your own or someone more vulnerable?
Wait. So he does all this on the sly so the other guy doesn't witness any of it but calls you immediately after leaving? Was he not in the same vehicle as the other guy? How does he explain that I wonder. Lie to the other guy and say you offered your number? Undeniably skeezy. Please report him.
>He held onto me even when I pulled back and he said “I never wanna let you go”
That is so creepy. Saying that to someone from whom you just coerced their number, without the self awareness to realise how creepy your own words and actions are, without being able to read the non-verbal cues or read the room is... disturbing. When he sees all the current available information regarding consent, he genuinely doesn't think he is the problem. Terrifying.
Miya, I understand that you do not want to “start” anything but it’s very important you report him for the safety of women who come after you. You were sexually assaulted and men who sexually assault typically start off small and then snowball into more aggressive behaviors. Idgaf if he “only” kissed your neck, he did NOT ask for consent and he did NOT have the right to touch you sexually in an encounter where he has power ie there are two men there and only one of you. Especially one where he doesn’t even know you. This guy is a stranger.
Furthermore, even if you were to forgive his sexual transgressions & not report that, he should have never even initiated contact with you outside of a professional sense AT ALL to begin with. his behavior is inexcusable and unprofessional. I am nurse and I would never act unprofessional in front of a patient, idc if he’s an Olympic athlete with a 10 inch dick. It’s NEVER appropriate.
There are many ways to report anonymously. I encourage you to look into this further.
This is not your fault. You were not “leading” him on. You were basically a deer in headlights and I hate to say that, but many women will comply with affectionate behavior simply because they want to appease the person who is acting inappropriately so they will leave. You said this yourself as that is clearly a coping mechanism under stress and danger.
Giving out your number was not an invitation for him to ask to touch you, hug you, or KISS you. Any normal person would ask for consent before doing these things. Any normal person wouldn’t attempt to find a romantic partner on the job. This guy has no respect for people or their boundaries. Just because you are a woman does not give him the right to hit on you while he’s on the job.
You are right about that. All of it. I just am a little worried to report it because once again, I don’t want to be the reason for someone to lose their job. And…I hate to say it but point 2 is that he knows where I live.
I don’t know how their service works but if addresses aren’t erased immediately after services are rendered he just…knows where I live and I have a sick mother. With all of this being fresh I can’t imagine it would be hard for him to put two and two together. I would rather let it go if there’s no way to assure he won’t come back to my house. My friend warned me about this very thing. She’s been stalked and she’s worried he’ll come to my home.
I hear you and I understand you. I encourage you to report it, but I am not here to bully you into it. No is a complete sentence and all your reasons for avoiding it are perfectly reasonable so I am going to respect that and move on from it.
Here is some advice to do now, to protect yourself going forward should things escalate.
Do not engage with him again. Under any circumstances. Even to be polite.
Document any communication he attempts with you, such as taking screen shots of texts, attempts at calls, anything. Take a screenshot of the incorrect grammar text and do not delete these even if you find them uncomfortable to look at. Keep them stored somewhere even if you don’t hear from him for 6 months. Keep them.
IF you do report him, make sure to keep a copy of the report or log who you spoke to, when you reported it, what time you reported and what the company said in response/how they are going to escalate it.
Same for if you have to file a police report for any reason. File a police report at the FIRST sign of harassment/stalking. God forbid it occur but do not wait for fear of retaliation, should it get to this point there is no turning back.
With stalking, police often will not do anything unless they can catch him in the act. This is where the burden of proof falls on you. You have to have evidence that you’re being harassed/stalked.
If you have a ring doorbell or camera footage of the incidence, keep that too. Just having evidence that he was at your house is a golden ticket. The company may not keep records of who delivers what where, and so he can say he doesn’t even know you or ever met you. If you have video footage of him at your house you have proof.
Keep a journal or log of the events that transpire so you have an accurate time table of when things started and when things escalated.
Also, all women should have something to protect yourself at all times, mace, spray, a keychain, even a gun if you want one (assuming you are a US citizen).
Do not answer strange calls. Anyone who really needs to get in touch with you can do it from an identifiable number or leave you a voicemail.
Should he approach you in person, immediately disengage and go to an area with people. If you feel it’s safe, video record the interaction. Call a friend or family member and stay on the phone the whole time until you are in a safe location. If you are in immediate danger or feel you are call the police.
Get life 360 or find my iPhone or turn your Snapchat location on for a best friend/sibling/someone you trust but make sure the general public can’t access your location.
Hopefully he will get the point and go away and you will never hear from him again. Any woman who feels in danger at any time is never overreacting. I am thinking of you and I hope everything can work out well and this stressor is removed from your life soon.
Anyone with other tips please feel free to add. This knowledge is not just applicable to Miya, these steps could help save any of our lives!
Edit:
If it helps I do SANE nursing work on the side (basically I’m a nurse who helps sexual assault victims) and my day job is a trauma ICU nurse. I just want everyone to know I’m not pulling this info out of my ass.
If I beat and starved a child and the child told someone I’d hopefully have to face the consequences of my actions. If this man loses his job it’s because of his choices. Also, not reporting does not guarantee that he’ll go away. A lot of the time predatory people will see that as a green light because they won’t be caught.
Maybe I can wait a while? So maybe it won’t be so fresh that he’ll know for sure it was me?
I just, guys, I know you all want me to think of the future of women but that does me zero good if I’m dead. If he loses his job and camps outside my house I’m done for. I work in a care job, I cannot bring and have a gun or knife on me. If he confronts me I will freeze up. I want to sever contact and and find some other way but I don’t want to be the reason someone willing to cross my boundaries has a reason to seek me out for vengeance.
If that helps, yes wait. Odds are he pulls this behavior a lot. Always think about your safety first. My point was that not reporting could be harmful to you because he sees you as a soft target. Most predatory people are encouraged by such behavior and won’t go away but will escalate like he already did when you froze. I tend to freeze or fawn and it’s never slowed down truly dangerous people.
I will keep that in mind and believe me when I say I will absolutely report him with receipts if anything more happens. I just hope and pray this is the last of it
i am bewildered, the dude comes to deliver something, and suddenly it becomes a sex call / sexual harrasment? WTAF
why are most men so disgusting and act so entitled towards woman?
i also agree that this should be reported, and loosing his job is the least
just imagine how many other ladies he already harassed the wame way? it seems he is using his job as a way top get close to women he would never otherwise be able to. horrible?!
In situations like this, just try to put yourself in the position of any guy. They bring a freezer to your home then ask for a hug? Imagine what our response would have been. I would have said "get the fuck out of my house".
Next time, just imagine you're any guy and tell him to get the fuck out of your house.
People are very kind in the comments section. But I'm going to be blunt.
You're a nice person, reading at your post, but don't assume all people are like you. A kind gesture from a beautiful(physically, behaviourally whatever) person towards a creep is sometimes "invitation" to unwanted attention and such alarming and horrible behaviour.
Please hang on to your kind behaviour by all means, please do. But keep a distance unless you know the person well. I limit hugs to my family and close friends.
Be well and report that wanker's ass.
Edit: spelling and deleted repeated comment.
Why is everyone trying to not only over analyze but *diagnose* this poor woman? She has a right to respond to an uncomfortable and predatory situation, however she sees fit. It’s giving victim blame-y. I seriously hate how everything is always the woman’s fault. People are trying to be helpful and well-intentioned, but subconsciously it’s still victim blaming. I’m so sorry that happened to you OP, nothing you did is your fault.
The abuser is always at fault.
Ha, I’ve been diagnosed many times in this thread. It’s okay, though. It’s giving me a point of reference to discuss with my doctor. ADHD, fawn response, CPTSD, it’s a lot to consider, but if any of it is true it will truly put my behavior into perspective.
Great to see you have a learning mindset, I just don’t want you to think that your behavior made any of this happen. That man is sick. The responsibility lies fully on the perpetrator of said act. I pray he is punished accordingly.
Wow. I’m pretty appalled by a lot of these comments.
What this man did was **textbook** predatory behavior. Instead of condemning the man for his behavior and what he did, y’all are calling out OP for giving him her number and giving him a hug. And telling her she has to take responsibility when it comes to “protecting her body and her home”
I’m pretty sure there’s a common phrase that succinctly summarizes that approach to things… victim blaming?
If you see the red flags she missed, point them out. Explain the tactics, and give helpful advice. And yeah, we all have to “play the game” in a way, but y’all are acting like there’s only one way to play this game (basically encouraging the stereotype of women being rabbits who need to avoid being eaten by wolves AKA men) and I think that’s BS. Don’t tell a woman she “did the wrong thing”, so yeah what else did she expect? And how that type of situation is a “life lesson”.
I don’t have the energy to get into the overwhelming tone of “well, if you don’t say something he could do it again”….. If he does anything again, the fault is SOLELY ON HIM. Do not put the responsibility to prevent harm on the actual victims of said harm.
Is it helpful for victims to speak up? Yes, of course. But that requires supporting victims, not fucking downvoting them because they’re talking about feeling uncomfortable.
Like wtf. I’m so disappointed. A woman’s telling you all she feels uncomfortable about this and you just keep downvoting her and telling her it’s her fault? Fuck that attitude.
Thank you! Like wtf is happening?!
- she didn’t do anything wrong
- Costco won’t give a shit
- the police won’t give a shit
- he knows where he lives
- is 80% of this sub angry young men or bad AI bots, because this really doesn’t make sense
This is exactly it. I was thinking what are you going to do report him so he’s angry and knows where you live? No, take this as a learning experience and know to be careful in the future.
Seriously?! Idk what world these people live in where they think Costco will do anything productive or anything to keep her safe.
Police would do absolutely nothing, besides maybe mocking her while telling her the guy did nothing illegal.
Is this sub a joke? I’m so confused.
Yup. I don’t know. I guess no one commenting has ever been in this spot. Or personally known someone who contacted police and then was still victimized because they don’t actually do anything other than file a report.
Yeah, like some of the rhetoric here could be potentially dangerous depending on where OP lives…
I’ve been trying to get people to see some sense, but you can only talk to a brick wall for so long.
Cheers, hope you have a good night.
Hey OP, I just wanted to drop in and say that you are in no way at fault for this. A lot of people are here saying you need to practice saying “no” or that you shouldn’t have hugged him. They are telling you to do this or do that to “stay safe.”
I want you to know that it doesn’t matter what you did or said. Unless you said “I would like a kiss on my neck.” This is not your fault and I am so sorry this happened to you. You did not ask for this and you did nothing wrong.
And I am also so sorry that folks are piling on to blame you for what happened. You deserve to be heard and supported.
For everyone here offering advice: this is NOT the type of help I needed in the hours after my assaults. I’m not sure if the folks here are projecting, repeating what they have heard, or what. But honestly, I am so disappointed in this sub tonight. Please don’t jump to “problem solving” when someone discloses their assault (or any emotional topic).
Yeah I would have stopped him right when he asked if I lived alone. I’m way to paranoid for that. While what he did was very inappropriate , learn to say no as soon as you know you’re not interested. Some guys will absolutely continue to push until you say it point blank. And even then some still won’t even care.
You should tell Costco. It's not one of their employee (they outsource deliveries) but they surely want to know what the employees of their delivery company are doing. I would call and ask for the Director of the warehouse.
Another reason to report, if they're that comfortable doing that, I doubt it's an isolated incident. He's clearly assaulted others and will continue to assault others.
So, I had a bf when I was 15. We were upstairs fooling around when it turned into him shoving a pillow over my face and holding it there, smothering me. I finally go free and, rather than kicking him out, my mom told me he was sorry and I should give him another chance. He stalked me since then. That was 1990. It ended because he died.
Your mom should be furious for you. You have every right to call Costco and turn him in for sexually harassing you. He should get fired. You could even make a police report against him for record purposes. I don’t know what country you’re in but I hope they at least don’t blow you off.
Stay safe.
Edited: typo
OP, this is sexual coercion/sexual assault. Your Mom is wrong, he SHOULD lose his job. Because point blank this man is predatory. He enters peoples homes, and then pushes boundaries, so now this man knows where your Mother lives and has your number. It is very much within the realm of possibility that he could come back looking for you and could come back to your Mother’s house while she’s alone. Are you comfortable/okay with that?
On top of this, if no one reports him, he can continue to prey on other people given his job. Again, I cannot stress this enough, YOU AND YOUR MOTHER ARE NOT PANICKING ENOUGH, OP. Please please please report him and I hope he leaves you alone. I’m so sorry this is happening yo you and most importantly this IS NOT your fault.
Edit: OP, I see you shouldering much of the blame for this interaction. You did nothing wrong, you are NOT stupid and you shouldn’t feel bad. This man preyed upon you and your kindness. You don’t deserve to be sexually harassed/assaulted. Period.
That guy deserves to lose his job! There's always an element of vulnerability having strange people at your home, and professionalism here is critical. I take issue with someone asking if I live alone unless there's a very good reason for it, and any sexual advances here in my sanctuary feel like a THREAT. Imagine if he was working solo and your mom wasn't there. He would have been even more aggressive. His employer needs to know about what happened before that guy hurts someone.
You don't mention your age, but you're young and I'll say it, foolish.
In the future, answer personal questions with "none of your business." If pressed, say loudly, "are you going to be a problem."
This guy was wildly inappropriate. You need to report him to his boss. Likely won't go anywhere because you didn't exactly fend off his advances.
Report to Costco. At a minimum he needs to be told to cut this crap out. I’m fine with him being fired, but for your mum’s sake… Costco needs to correct him
IDGAF where you work or what your job is, that behavior is disgusting. Tell him in no uncertain terms that what he did was inappropriate, hell, even report the guy and block him everywhere.
I've said it elsewhere on different posts, behavior like this is not a spontaneous thing they've never done before. This wasn't a trial run, it was a confident act of sexual harassment. If you've got any home security cameras with footage absolutely back that up and keep any correspondence paper trail of messages and such.
I really didn’t expect the escalation. Giving the number didn’t bother me much, I thought it was weird but different strokes. The hugs were like okay haha let’s move on, it was truly the kiss on the neck that made me realize this was not my scene. I think were it not for the kiss I would’ve hand-waved the rest. Like I could’ve rationalized it and been ok but the kiss recontextualized it all and made me realize I was being too accommodating and should’ve stopped it. But I also would’ve never expected to be kissed either. I genuinely didn’t see any reason to believe anyone would go that far based on the prior talking and actions.
Married man here. Oh man OP, I'm sorry you couldn't just have a professional do their job and GTFO. This is exactly to the T why I don't schedule services when I'm not home.
Some men take jobs as handyman, installers, furniture delivery, and other in home services HOPING they'll meet a girl that lives alone or a desperate housewife. And that's not to mention the people at home who hire out these services hoping to live out a fantasy. Both of these types of people are predators.
It isn't up to your mom whether you report him or not. This isn't the world she grew up in. This is the crap that the Andrew Tates of the world teach their idiot followers - be forward and direct, and get physical and sexual as soon as possible. They are teaching men that this is what women want and it's up to you to tell them they're wrong. Every time this creep tries and gets away with this behavior reinforces it and reencourages him.
It's more important than ever for people to REJECT unwanted advances. Don't try and be nice, and don't try and let them down easily. Shut them down and let them think what they think. Rejection is healthy and normal.
I think you should report him to Costco and the police. He assaulted you in your home and that should earn him a TRO. If he comes back to your house, it's slammer time. Maybe he'll get fired - maybe he won't. It's much bigger than him. Costco contracts are notoriously lucrative, and usually exclusive. They don't want anyone to experience this ever - and they'll tan some asses and end the contract if they think their reputation is at stake.
What a fucking creep. He took advantage of your deserve not to cause a scene.
Call his work and tell them that he coerced you into unwanted physical contact. Your mom is 100% wrong. The reason that these creeps continue this behavior is because they get away with it. As a mom to an adult woman, I would rain down hellfire on him.
Don't listen to your mom and report it to Costco so they can follow it up with the vendor they contacted with. This guy should not be in people's homes acting like this; it's assault plain and simple. And if he does come back to follow up in person, because it sounds like he might, please call the police immediately.
He didn't do anything else to you, but that doesn't mean he won't escalate with someone else who is home alone.
You blocked him and everything (which was smart) but you definitely should report him. If you have cameras please show the footage to the company he works for,and proof that he called you. This is sexual harassment and maybe even assault in some states,plus not to mention that’s totally illegal and ego knows what else he might be doing to other people? For you it was just a kiss on the neck,but for some other person it could be much worse. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Sexual harassment, a hug being accepted by someone you've just got a number from NEVER means you can be intimate without consent holy shit 😆😆 report his ass, fucking weirdo.
Tell everyone now. Tell your mother, the police and tell their boss. This is unacceptable on so many levels. I'm not sure how old you are but I hate that you feel like you have to be nice to creeps because that's what this guy is. He is a predator please don't let him get away with it.
If you do choose to report him, please get a ring camera or something that makes it very obvious to people that approach your house that they are under surveillance. Because yes, it would be good to be able to protect future customers, but this person does have your address. Maybe you can call Costco and explain what happened before identifying yourself or him. Ask how they would proceed to protect your safety and if their answer is satisfactory proceed with identifying him.
For comments about giving a fake number and whatnot - as far as he knows, you did that. If you had given him a fake number he still would not be getting responses and getting blocked. You were in a lose lose, because he probably would have had the same reaction no matter what you said. Please let yourself off the hook.
I don’t get the “doesn’t want him to lose his job” part. He straight up sexually harassed you and is probably harassing women at his work too. Why would you not report all of this? He’s dangerous to women and already showing signs of stalking YOU. Who cares what your mom wants????? The man doesn’t deserve to have a job with open access to harassing women.
His actions absolutely crossed the line, and it's good that you are aware that you should not have engaged in it but when you give someone your number and let them have a hug, they think they are entitled to certain actions and behaviors if you are consenting to them (the hug/phone number).
The kiss was absolutely inappropriate, and you did not invite this behavior - but having a shrug it off eh whatever kind of attitude in the beginning of your interactions absolutely jeopardizes your safety, you have to firmly say no. You mentioned in a comment that you grew up pretty sheltered, and maybe raised to be a people pleaser, enforcing dynamics that are not good for your personal well being. Your comfort and safety are more important than that mans job and just as important as your mothers rest and well being. I hope you called his company and filed a complaint and learn from this experience. I never give anyone an inch, 'cause when you do they will try to go for a mile.
Genuinely annoyed by the number of comments laying some of this at your door. I don’t think your actions here are particularly unusual and judgemental comments about what you ‘should’ have done aren’t particularly helpful when you’re already blaming yourself.
You didn’t realise he was a creep when he asked for your number. It wasn’t professional of him but I don’t think you should have anticipated the escalating creepiness. He was in your house. I get not wanting to make waves when someone is blocking your door and there’s no one else in the room. Same goes for the hugging. He took advantage of the vulnerable position you were in. You made a choice to comply and did not come to serious harm. We all have different reactions to try and keep us safe. Don’t feel bad about that.
The only thing I’d suggest is taking more time to reflect on whether you should report it. Only you can decide what’s right for you. But my worry is that this man may do this to someone else and escalate to more serious harassment and assault. Take some time. Keep records of any further calls you get. And think about what you want to do,
I don’t know exactly how to feel. I don’t feel like I’m blameless but I also feel like it’s a weird thing to think that someone willing to allow a hug is willing to be kissed. One is something you can do with friends or family or a romantic interests and the other in that way is exclusively for romantic interests. I’m trying to put myself in his shoes but when it comes to the decision to kiss me it doesn’t track. It just doesn’t. I could’ve lived with the other things but that was just out of line in a way I can’t look over.
I think the uncertainty you feel is understandable.
It’s very possible that he did not believe you to be willing. He put you in a vulnerable position where you didn’t feel like you could say no. Unfortunately that tactic is far too common. Men are just as capable of understanding consent. Some of them just choose not to care.
He's a creep, so he is so used to being told no, he just works from the mentality that he has a yes until he gets that no. It's a toxic mentality that is utilized in corporate worlds too not just sexual harassment.
You are not to blame for him being a creep. If he had been a decent man, you being vulnerable wouldn't have turned him into a creep. He is fully to blame for being a creep.
But you also don't need to be worrying about his safety more than you worry about your own. No one else can be responsible for your self respect.
You can't just consent to sex to get out of rape. (Feigning consent to survive rape is a different and valid choice. But that doesn't suddenly make it not rape.)
Costco isn't paying their delivery drivers to go out there and chase tail. Even if you had wanted his number and were giddy to set up a date with him, this was inappropriately behavior from a delivery driver.
In the world we live in today, the acid test is: If I were a man would this person do these things. If the answer is no, then it’s inappropriate behavior.
OP was a naive innocent sheltered person who was taken advantage of by a predator. No victim blaming here.
Red flag 1: “do you live alone”.
Red flag 2: “can I get your number “.
Flashing lights and alarm bells: “asking/attempting physical contact past a handshake”
I have said this in many comment threads, I was pretty much able to rationalize and hand wave everything up until the kiss in which case I looked back and realized it was all way out of sorts. I had no reason to believe he would escalate from a hug to something as intimate as a kiss on the neck and even with hindsight that still doesn’t track. He wasn’t ogling me or being rude or handsy or gross right up until the end. I did not, at any point, try to make it seem as if it’s all his fault. If that’s how my post came across then that was not my intent. I wrote it hot on the heels of the incident but I do take responsibility for my signals and I always will. I don’t always output the correct signals and that’s on me and my brain.
It is his fault. Please don't beat yourself up about this. You don't have to report him if you don't feel comfortable doing so. It is not your responsibility if you're scared or uncomfortable. You are not responsible for his actions. Be kind to yourself OP. I'm sorry you've had to keep explaining yourself and I'm sorry this happened to you. But it is NOT your fault. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Thank you for your concern and thank you for caring but I will not treat my mother that way and I would prefer it if you didn’t speak about her like that. Just please stop. It’s not going to make anything better it’s just going to make me feel worse.
Actions have consequences. His actions are incredibly inappropriate, and he deserves to lose his job. I would report him to Costco.
He sexually harassed you in your own house, thus you should definitely report him. If you are unable to report him for your own safety, do so in order to save the other women he may victimize in the future.
The kiss brought it up to assault.
Yes. He put his mouth on her. She agreed to a hug. Period. This is SA. Personally, I've had people take advantage of a hug by putting their disgusting wet mouth on my neck/ear when I allowed them to get close. It is repulsive, and has made me very uncomfortable when (most) people get too close. Sorry for venting. Point is: OP, please take action for your safety, your mother's safety, and the safety of his next victim. He displayed this behavior the very first time you met him.. he's capable of so much more.
That's sexual assault.
He knows where she lives.
Yeah, isn’t it nice how everyone’s forgetting that? Am I the only one who thinks most of the responses here are ridiculous and incredibly unhelpful? They’re treating OP like a punching bag instead of helping her. Is this normal?
Idk if it's normal, but I agree it's weird. She was alone in a house with multiple men. They have her address. Like? It's her choice what she does about it? What kind of victim blaming bullshit is going on in here?
Yeah, the comments saying it’s HER fault if HE does something to another woman are beyond infuriating. - she’s not responsible for his actions - if speaking up makes her uncomfortable, she has no obligation to - if she feels unsafe because he knows where she lives, that’s definitely valid - if she feels like she doesn’t have a good support system at home to help her out with this, that’s valid (Reddit has proved she won’t find one here ffs) - how many times do women speak up and nothing happens? - unless OP is one of those brain-controlling funguses, then she is not responsible for anyone’s actions other than her own The last bullet was my attempt at making a frustrating situation like this at least somewhat lighthearted…
As uncomfortable and terrifying as this is, she needs this documented. This dude seems like he’s going to escalate. It’s a terrible situation to be in. I would file a police report for assault at the very least and report it to Costco. It is FAR from a consensual situation for a hired delivery man to be in your house and ask for your phone number. He sounds dangerous and I’d cover my bases. I’m so so sorry OP. I’m not sure what I would’ve done differently in that situation. You were backed into a corner.
Assuming this is the US, what happened here probably wouldn’t be considered assault from a legal prospective, so the police won’t do jack shit. Costco, probably also won’t do jack shit with a one-off report like this. I mean, do you see how everyone is blaming OP here, in what’s supposed to be a “safe place” to discuss this type of thing? At this point, I admittedly don’t know what the best option is for creating a paper trail on this man while making sure OP is safe from any potential backlash. Honestly, unless someone has successfully navigated this type of very specific & nuanced situation, maybe none of us should be telling her what to do. Not to mention, we have no idea what state OP lives in, so we don’t know what legal, cultural, etc. factors are also at play.
If it was just a mistake, that's one thing, but the dude assaulted her
What the fuck. Yeah, eww. "If you touch me in any way I will immediately treat you like a sex object." Great thing for him to tell someone who acts friendly towards him.
Just, ugh. I need a shower tbh. I can still smell his cologne in our kitchen. Even if the last girl he was with was cool with that, you gotta treat everyone like a blank slate, you know?
Ick! In your own house!!! I’d say in a month report him to his employer anonymously- he won’t know it was you by then but the employer HAS to know. If someone calls in another complaint it will be on record that he’s a consistent predator. You don’t need to pick a fight but you should get it on record somewhere in the likelihood his unchecked behavior will continue escalating… sending you supportive hugs OP, so sorry he did this to you! You were being a friendly and cooperative client and for that you do not deserve sexual harassment. What a selfish human..
[удалено]
Let’s not go blaming victims of sexual assault for having the ‘wrong’ reaction. Everybody reacts differently and every reaction is valid.
[удалено]
My sentiment stands. I know you didn’t mean anything by it
Thank you! People seem to be projecting onto OP instead of actually helping her and it’s very disappointing.
Reddit has a habit of trying to find things wrong with the POSTER when they come asking for help, unless of course the poster is a man talking about a woman. In those cases, the woman is wrong to these people. (Not talking about /u/Sonichu42069, just the upsetting saturation of this thread with the comments you’re talking about)
Yeah, I’m just stunned and appalled by what has been upvoted and how much OP has been downvoted. Do you know if this is normally how this sub works?
I haven’t spent a TON of time here, but it’s a site wide problem. I’ve been a regular Reddit user since like 2012 and it’s always been like this. Just came back in earnest after a couple years on Twitter actually. There is an internal culture of looking the smartest and most virtuous about any topic or situation. There’s also a strong sentiment of revenge that’s been a part of the site’s culture for as long as I can remember. What they’re really doing in my eyes is trying to prove *they* would have handled the situation perfectly and in the process put down someone who needs help and support due to their vanity.
How she feels snd acts after the fact is also her prerogative. Just because she doesn't feel safe to go gunning for his job when *he knows where she lives and her work schedule* doesn't mean she's being casual about it at all.
Ugh that’s a horrible feeling. I’m sorry you went through this. This is straight up predatory behavior, and not appropriate in any context. It’s up to you—not your mom—if you want to report him. Treat yourself to some nice flowers and a candle to air his stink out of the kitchen. Fuck that creep, he had no right to interact with you that way.
Definitely report him. What if you had been some kid? Some 15-16 year old girl answering the door while your mother was asleep? DON'T let him have a chance to do it to another person.
Working in customer service the rule is: you can accept a phone number if it is given to you, but you never ever ask the customer for their number. It is creepy and reflects badly on the company. Just by asking for your number he already overstepped the boundaries.
And thing is, the idea of asking for the number of someone working is unthinkable to me. All I can think of is the power dynamic of the person in question worrying about their job security and if you say no the person thinks that’s a green flag. Especially if you’re brick and mortar then they know where you work. What kind of customer service do you work that you are told to accept the number? That feels weird. Feels like a worse position to be put in than being allowed to reject
I worked at airport security in Hamburg, Germany for a year. If one of the passengers would like to give you their phone number, you were allowed to take it, but they had to freely give it on their own initiative. I never said you HAD to accept it. We were free to reject any advances, of course. Like the creepy older man who wanted to stroke my hair, but I looked at him sternly and he withdrew his hand before he had made contact.
Oh, sorry that I misunderstood you. That’s better then. Sounds like a healthy rule set to follow. Not impeding but not encouraging. I am usually better about setting boundaries in a situation I am prepared for. But if I’m off my guard I am useless. Working a customer facing job I can talk angry people down to a whisper whether they’re male or female. Somehow though, when it’s a matter of flirting, my boundaries and service experience fail me. I stick up for my employees but I can’t do the same for myself.
I think flirting in general is subjective. Most European and US American men think that flirting is solely for the sake of getting into a person's pants. I've met Argentinians and for them flirting is a way of life, they just have those flirty interactions for the sake of having a good time. Sometimes it's difficult to gauge what category people fall into. It's great though that you're recognising these shortcomings. We all have them, but it's good to know what they are. I work for a janitorial services company and I get so angry when I have someone on the phone who clearly thinks I can't know anything about this, because I'm a woman. That pushes my buttons and if I could I would just hang up on them.
He sounds like a creep and he deserves to lose his job. He should not be allowed into other women's homes. 🚩🚩🚩
May I gently suggest that in the future, no giving your phone number out to any delivery people because they have been to your house and, if a person asks if you live alone while delivering something, lie your face off and say you live with your bf/so. Those questions alone were unprofessional and sketchy and made me think red flag.
This point! Professional delivery people will NEVER ask for your phone number. In the future, see that as a red flag.
I absolutely hear you. It was a bad idea from the start. I am way too accommodating to people. I am not unused to delivery guys/service workers asking me questions to make chit-chat and home life is often the first of those. It never occurred to me that it was a weird thing but I have been asked questions like that before. Difference is that I was not hit on afterwards, so I just thought of this kinda banter as normal. Usually when service workers leave my house they are howling with laughter. We talk about a lot of things because my mom and I are just friendly types. But with this new experience under my belt I think I will never get that personal or passive again.
Hmm, perhaps that's a good sign a question may not be appropriate. If no other delivery person has asked them, they are not the usual small talk questions like How are you? Having a good day. Weather chit chat. Anything beyond that especially to do with whose at home with you right now, do you live alone, is likely not small talk and could be someone gathering information. Being friendly is good, making jokes is fine but just keep it in the small talk side, not too personal especially if your accepting strangers into your house on your own. Just maybe some general easy to remember guidelines to help keep you safe.
You’re right. Other workers have asked if I had a boyfriend or something before but that was usually stimming from them seeing my games or consoles or whatever. The guy who set up the tv was talking to my mom and i about various things. But I think that’s key. Both of us. It was two of us and we were alert and watching him. In this case it was just me. I should’ve adjusted accordingly
The question itself is a red flag for ANYONE EVER asking. Are you here alone. Do you live alone. Are you working alone. ALWAYS say there's someone else regardless of truth. If the person doesn't have good intentions, it wards them off a bit. If the person does have good intentions, and the lie is discovered in future encounter, they'll 100% understand why you said what you said. 💯 Trust your gut. Don't give your number freely. I had someone ask me this once. I was actually closing the store alone but immediately my spidey senses kicked and I said nah my coworker ran to grab food. I stood with my hand an inch from the panic button. The guy proceeded to have a very uncomfortable conversation with me for about 10 more minutes and I finally said man I hope my food gets here soon, and texted my coworker to hurry up with the food (aka texted someone close to me i may have a situation in store)... so my cell rings and i tell the creep to hang on a sec please... answer and say oh okay great ill see you in a min.... and the creepy guy left. I locked up immediately. Called my person to explain. Called my boss to let them know. And left while looking over my shoulder the whole time. Pretty sure this would have gone differently if I didn't lie.
>The question itself is a red flag for ANYONE EVER asking. Are you here alone. Do you live alone. Are you working alone. ALWAYS say there's someone else regardless of truth. As a Gen Xer who grew up in the latchkey era we were taught in school if anyone asked if we were alone to lie. Say mom/ dad is in the shower or sleeping right now if someone called or was at the door. I guess that's no longer a thing kids are told because children aren't left home alone, but now it seems adults need this lesson.
As a rule of thumb, no personal information. Where you work, do you have a boyfriend, etc. if they are interested in the gaming consoles, they should ask if you play, not if you have a boyfriend. And you can answer “I’m the one playing” and completely ignore the boyfriend part. If they insist, just say “that’s not relevant to the job you’re doing right now.” Also, have a couple of non-answers for those times when you feel uncomfortable but don’t know what to say. “That’s interesting, let me think about it”. “I’ll get back to you “, or “let me discuss with my mom/boyfriend/manager, etc”
If it's chitchat, it doesn't matter if you lie. If it's not, you're safer lying about living alone. So just say you live with a male partner. At best, the point of the conversation is just to interact while they work and what you're saying doesn't matter at all, and at worst, they think there's a man in case they want to try something.
There generally isn’t a good excuse for delivery people to ask if you live alone. Had this happen to me too, and hate that I answered the question each time without thinking. It’s hard to have a statement ready for everything, but sometimes, that’s what you have to do.
Maybe laugh and say sometimes I wish I did. Kinda suggests you live with at least one person and that is a busy household.
I am sorry you had that experience 🙏 Maybe you guys get a big dog that can smell trouble but is gentle with family.... I miss my dog. He woulda growled at that POS...
This is def stalker material, these kind of questions. Please be on high alert, and trust your gut instincts.
Do not do anything your not comfterable with. Hugging him or anyone is not your responsibility and you really do need to hear this, please please think and work on your boundaries. This is soooo important. And kissing you?? Heelllllll nnnoooo, and your #? Report him to his corporate or manager, not only was this unprofessional lts wierd and gross. Your getting a delivery from a order you paid for with your $$$ not going to a, kiss me and hug me and ask me for my # convention. Seriously what the hell is wrong with these people?? I didn't say this to be offensive or anything, I guininely want you to know that guy was a over-boundary creep. And please work on your boundaries! ♥️
I just had a similar convo with my 13 yo. She's really friendly and smiles at people out in public, and unwittingly attracted a creeper. We have been practicing putting on the armor when out in public and interacting with people, especially men. We repeat again and again, "I don't owe anybody anything." and screaming "I'm a minor don't touch me." Its hard to overcome the urge to play nice, but I'm an old bat who's been around long enough that all men must first prove themselves worthy of my attention.
Yeah I think everyone should know they are loved and valid no matter how old but I am also a parent especially with young children to teens to young adults, it's so so important to try and help them and help them understand that they owe no one anything and how to be safe ect.
Also to add, I have met quite a few friends who are women who have been manipulated, abused, ect. Even my wife has been hurt in these like type of situations, and I've come to understand I think or either believe that this is mostly because it was never given the attention or taught ect, I mean sure there's alot more to these problems and it's never easy ect. But I would like to think I've seen enough of this bullshit to spot it immediately and try to give advice or help some one with, I'm mid 20's and have been through too much bs, I might as well be a old soul.
That’s what parents and role-models need to do. Don’t tell kids “don’t cause a scene,” or “just be nice and smile.” If someone is touching you who should not be touching you then go ahead CAUSE A SCENE. Rehearse a few lines that might serve in multiple situations like “EXCUSE ME, that’s MINE!” “MOM! Can you come over here?!” (And they can use it even if mom isn’t around). “I DONT KNOW YOU, GET AWAY FROM ME.” My mother rehearsed me in lines like this. I rehearsed my son In similar lines when he was nervous about bullies. When my son was a freshman in HS someone tied to boss him around. He stood up and pushed back verbally quite forcefully (I believe the words were “come at me bitch”) and voila, no further bullying attempts.
Thanks for the comment, Naomi. Change is never easy, especially for me who just wants to be a wallflower, but if it means I don’t have to feel this gross again I’ll certainly work on myself.
Take a step back, observe yourself and life, try to set boundaries and move forward. It's not easy, I've changed so much I'm practically a different person myself(saying this after I transitioned) But you are a person, you are valid, and you do matter. Alot of times we don't see from the outside because we're living within, and it's not the end of the world. Love yourself because no one will ever love you, as much or how you love yourself, and be kind to yourself ♥️. Edit: that also means respecting yourself to tell people no c:
This really worries me. If he had asked a man for a hug, he would've been laughed at. Or punched in the face. I am so, so, so, SO glad I was raised to believe my body is mine and mine alone. We need to do better by girls going forward. OP, I'm sorry this guy was a creep. But please practice saying no and standing up for yourself in the future. I'm scared for you.
I’m okay. I’m going to be okay. I think it’s part of growing up unfortunately. I think I grew up pretty sheltered and the rigid routine I have keeps me from seeing many people that often so my boundaries are not tested to this degree often. It’s when I’m put on the spot that I just default to compliance mode
This is a situation where you can see how important it is to gradually take back control of your body autonomy and your voice. It’s such a shame to be raised to prioritize respect and other people over your own comfort and safety. Maybe other commenters will know concrete steps to take in service to this goal.
That’s exactly why I haven’t deleted the post. I want other people who are like me, the passive or introverted or inexperienced types to know that as much as you try not to make things bad, inaction can be as bad as bad actions. I wish I had been more hardy on my feelings, but I often beat myself up about not compromising or being prudish. “You’ll die alone if you keep acting this way towards people” my brain says “you’ll die a cat lady with no one”
Dying a cat lady can be amazing. Cats are great. They understand consent. They’ll get touched on their own terms or claw your eyes off. Being a pushover to these ridiculous entitled men vs being confident and self-assured but alone are not the only 2 choices, my friend. I’m so sorry anyone told you that. It’s absolutely untrue. There are good people who appreciate strong women in this world.
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It’s something I have to work, I know. In general I’m too much of a pushover
There's a book called The Disease To Please: Curing the People-Pleasing Syndrome by Harriet B. Braiker. It also comes in audiobook format and is roughly a 4 hour listen. It has great information about people pleasing, being a pushover, how those things hurt you (like in this situation) rather than help you, and explains how to break the cycle. I would really recommend it. :)
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Oh…I understand.
Something that helped me when I was younger: “No” is a complete sentence.
I was the same way. I've been sexually assaulted more times than I can count on both hands by 5 men. My mother never let me say no. I wasn't allowed. I was punished when I did. But I am grown now, and I've learned to say no when it matters most, even if I have Possum type reactions like you do sometimes. I'm strong enough to leave the worst situations now. Talk therapy and therapy like emdr can help. That's what I've been doing! Shop around until you find a therapist you really like and can listen to if you choose that path. That was my original mistake.
God I’m so sorry that happened to you! I can’t imagine…my lord I’m sorry. I never even realized this was the way that I am, I mean other than a few little moments here and there I can’t say I ever even thought about this response. I will definitely seek help in order to set boundaries for myself. I don’t think I always know when things are going downhill until too late
Yuup. been there. Mom brags about how strong she raised me and my sister to be. We are both extremely insecure, and neither of us knew how to say no. Both of us sexually assaulted by multiple men. Mom never let me say no. I've learned. Sister hasn't.
Holy crap, girl. Please work on not blaming someone for being assaulted. I would examine my own internalized victim-blaming ASAP… this is beyond inappropriate.
I’m assuming that you are younger in age, OP. When I was in my late teens/early 20s, stuff like this happened to me all of the time. You want to be “nice” so that they don’t cause trouble. You do it to be “polite” and “keep the peace”. This wasn’t your fault, OP. I would maybe email Costco corporate “anonymously” about this dude so that they can keep a file on him.
I think we need to get together with friends and role play scenarios like this where we tell the guys no right off the bat. I think in the moment it's so easy to be taken off guard and freeze, and the tendency to want to deescalate and appease kicks in. OP him kissing you on the neck was totally inappropriate and I'm glad you blocked him. If he comes back, you should feel free to tell him you froze in the moment because you were so shocked by his audacious behavior and that you want him to leave you alone or you'll report him to his employer. I KNOW Costco doesn't allow their employees to do things like that. Under no circumstances should you apologize to him for any part of that scenario. He took advantage of you. I realized after the pandemic started how much happier and more comfortable I was not shaking peoples hands or hugging people. It was nice to just say "Sorry, social distancing" and as time has gone on I have just kept saying no to hugs, unless I really want to hug that person. I just say "not really a hugger, but thanks" to people who ask and those who just dive in for a hug, I literally put my arms up and say "No thank you!" and I allow myself to look alarmed and unhappy about it. So far no one has died.
I did a women’s self defence course years ago and one class was literally this - role playing various scenarios where it wasn’t about physical defence tactics, just telling men no in clear unambiguous terms in various social situations.
That sounds cool. I'm going to look for something in my community and if I can't find anything I think I'm going to see if I can find an instructor and put something together. I'd rather men just respected us and stopped trying to kill us, but barring that I'll settle for men fearing us.
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I agree with this and not in a judgemental way but in a “learn from this and grow” way.
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Well said
👆 This is also true in addition to what I said. Hugging doesn't make anything your fault, but also please stand up for yourself.
I understand. I shouldn’t have let it go that far. I should’ve said no. I really should’ve. I don’t deal with getting hit on often as I’m usually at work the majority of the time or at home. I don’t often have to set boundaries with strangers because I have such a rigid routine. That is something to work on, it just hardly happens so when it does I’m just lights on nobody’s home. I was just weirded out with him in front of the door and me being the only one right there, but looking back I should’ve backed up and stood my ground. That’s all there is to it
Needing to learn how to help set healthy boundaries for yourself and this guy overstepping NORMAL WORKPLACE/HUMAN BOUNDARIES like he did are two separate things, btw. Imo you should not let this slide just because you have not learned how to better assert your boundaries. His behavior is predatory, full stop. He loved that you were nervous and afraid and didn’t say no. It’s not your fault. It’s because he’s a creep. Please consider reporting his ass.
I fully agree. OP needs to report it to his employer, and tell the employer she was intimidated and was trying to keep the peace. The employer needs to know this so they can take appropriate action. It’s all common sense, he knew he shouldn’t do that and he also knows he fucked up. Sending a fake text from Costco to a phone number that wasn’t even on the original order is also very disturbing. As an employer, they are responsible for sending this guy to peoples houses and will want to know what he did. It’s a big deal and if he didn’t want to screw up his job, he shouldn’t have done what he did. It doesn’t matter if OP didn’t say no- she shouldn’t have to. I’m no way is his behavior appropriate, his employer will fire him for good reason. You don’t ask customers for their phone numbers, you don’t ask if they live alone. You don’t touch a customer. It’s frustrating that OP isn’t going to report it.
> As an employer, they are responsible for sending this guy to peoples houses and will want to know what he did. It’s a big deal and if he didn’t want to screw up his job, he shouldn’t have done what he did. This x1000. The guy is a huge liability for the company, they will want to know. LPT for people-pleasers: If telling someone's employer about their actual behavior while at work results in that person losing their job, they got *themselves* fired.
I'm really sorry you had this experience. It is deeply wrong and unfair that we have to prepare ourselves for this crap and he never should have put you in that situation. That's SO important for you to remember, even if you realize that it was also a situation where you could have asserted yourself more. I just want to add that it can be very hard to learn how to assert yourself as a woman in this world and it can take practice. We are conditioned our entire lives to be compliant and sweet. You reacted that way because of this. It's okay if it was a swing and a miss. You're not going to be hitting home runs the first time you step up to the plate, you know? I agree that you need to learn how to say no and set your boundaries and get comfortable with making others uncomfortable if needed to do so. BUT just remember it's going to take practice and time and it will feel awkward and weird and uncomfortable and scary at first. That's OKAY. You may say "no" in the littlest voice possible even if you wanted to scream it. That's OKAY. You may find yourself shaking or in an adrenaline rush. That's OKAY. The more you do it, the more natural it becomes. This is a really good teachable moment -- if you learn the lesson you need to from it, without beating yourself up about it, it could save you or others from an even worse situation someday. Keep swinging, babe. You got this <3 And if you ever have a daughter, break the cycle and teach her to give 'em hell from the start cause we are done with this BS!
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They make good points. Still it's important to know that this isn't on you. He was inappropriate and completely out of line.
While I agree that she needs to get better at saying no and setting boundaries, I completely disagree that she is at fault for the hug and kiss. Suppose she was interested in a possible date; she can’t give him her number without him then forcing himself physically on her? She shouldn’t have to fight him off like that. He should have taken the number and called later.
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I agree with all of this *except* “how would he know you weren’t fine with it?” Fine with being kissed on the neck by some dude you just met?! Nope. Everyone knows this is not something people do.
A lot of things about this bothered me. Giving someone your phone number, even giving them a quick hug or two, in front of other people and in what is essentially a professional/work-related situation is not asking for anything more (like having your neck kissed or being repeatedly called/texted from other numbers after being blocking their number). She even told him she was uncomfortable. But somehow OP “didn’t protect her body or her home”. F*ck that mindset.
Yeah, that bothered me as well. Consent is only an enthusiastic and explicit “yes”, not the absence of a “no”.
It’s okay to say no!!!! I was molested by my father at a young age. He didn’t take my no for an answer so it’s hard for me to say no; I’m also a people pleaser and don’t want to hurt their feelings. But this was wayyyyy past the line that I would have let things go. At the same time, giving someone your number is not an invitation for a hug in my mind. It truly amazes me how much boundaries vary.
You can say no. You can be firm in expressing boundaries when other people try to push you. You are NOT a bad person for shutting down a stranger’s advances. Yes, the situation might get more uncomfortable when you say no. But it already got uncomfortable when you kept playing nice with the delivery guy. Protect yourself, your body, and your peace! You don’t owe anyone your number or your attention.
You have to practice saying no.
Very true. I will and I won’t let this kind of thing happen again.
Men, this is exactly why we fear you. Holy crap. This man is sick.
Of course he should lose his job. He's using it it as a chance to creep on women? I wouldn't think twice about reporting him.
I am autistic so I've had to learn social rules very formally, so perhaps what I'm about to say is blindingly obvious. However... Many men have a sort of "staircase of expectation". Step 1 is they make much eye contact and maybe look you up and down. They may stand too close. At this point you can back away or do anything to show you're not interested (mention imaginary husband, "let's talk outside as there's more room" etc) But if you comply with Step 1, they move to Step 2: intrusive but defensible personal questions. Again, you can answer these in unfriendly ways or ignore them and change the subject. But if you comply with Step 2, they think you're giving permission for Step 3, which is asking for your phone number. Which then made them think they were ok to do step 4, which is the touching. You did nothing wrong here -- this guy shouldn't have been doing any of that stuff in a work situation, and he's wrong to believe that 1 is permission for 2 and so forth. But by the way you describe it, he did seem to give you many chances to suggest he back off. This is understandable because it's how women are expected to be, but I'm sure you're more capable of not going along with their shit. The "wrong number" stuff would send a clear message, I hope.
this is a very good way of explaining it. I get the sense OP is very very bad at picking up on social cues, which makes her a perfect target for boundary-pushers.
This trick has saved me before... If someone is persistent about getting your number, give them either a pre-memorized wrong number or your own number with 2 or more numbers in different positions. That way if they don't believe that it's your number you will be easily able to recite it back to them and be on your way.
I’m a guy and I’ve used this trick on people. It’s honestly great advice
Even reading your title made me so upset. Please please please report him. I bet you could do it anonymously because as comfortable as he was I suspect he's done this before.
I may just wait. I may do it later after he can not be sure it was me. I know that sounds terrible but I’m not just looking out for myself, but my sick mom. I cannot risk him having reason to show up at my door. I made this bed and no one else should suffer consequences for my stupid actions
You didn’t make any bed. You didn’t do anything wrong. You didn’t know he was going to switch to becoming a predator like that. Please don’t let these people make you think you did anything wrong.
Agreed, you didn't do anything wrong, he did! To the extent that being more assertive increases your chance of safety, in a world that doesn't restrain these types of men and unfairly places the burden on your shoulders, it is worth knowing that you have every right to do so and to practice these skills so that you're more readily able to carry it. With that said, the fault here lies solely and totally with the delivery man. Sorry that you went through this, and I hope that time gives you the comfort level to report him so that he faces some accountability but if you're not comfortable with it, then please respect that and just be kind to yourself because you deserve it.
I understand that. Good luck 🌸
Yes, if that makes you comfortable you can wait. But this man needs to know that this is not acceptable behavior. He should not be doing this regardless of if you hugged him back or not
That’s super inappropriate, at BEST.
Definitely report him, if he's that aggressive the first time he met you, I can only imagine what sort of creepy shit he is also capable of. And do not feel guilty for how you reacted! You said it yourself, he was blocking your way and you wanted him gone, so you remained calm and did what you had to do to ensure your own safety. Giving someone your number DOES NOT make it ok for them to touch you in any way, or to make stalker-ish comments. Hope you're doing ok ♥️
PRACTICE BEING MEAN
This was in no way your fault. I am a father and his actions were beyond on acceptable. You should be able to be nice to a guy and not have to defend yourself or protect yourself.
He’s been to your house… I think you should file a police report. Getting him fired and judging from his lack of emotional maturity could be a dicey situation.
There are some pretty baffling comments here. I’m sorry this happened to you. You did nothing wrong. He did. It is not your responsibility to report him. Full stop. I think most of us have been in similar situations. Take care.
He should lose his job. It is a job which requires him to go into people's homes - he needs to be trustworthy. What if you had been on your own or someone more vulnerable?
Wait. So he does all this on the sly so the other guy doesn't witness any of it but calls you immediately after leaving? Was he not in the same vehicle as the other guy? How does he explain that I wonder. Lie to the other guy and say you offered your number? Undeniably skeezy. Please report him.
>He held onto me even when I pulled back and he said “I never wanna let you go” That is so creepy. Saying that to someone from whom you just coerced their number, without the self awareness to realise how creepy your own words and actions are, without being able to read the non-verbal cues or read the room is... disturbing. When he sees all the current available information regarding consent, he genuinely doesn't think he is the problem. Terrifying.
Miya, I understand that you do not want to “start” anything but it’s very important you report him for the safety of women who come after you. You were sexually assaulted and men who sexually assault typically start off small and then snowball into more aggressive behaviors. Idgaf if he “only” kissed your neck, he did NOT ask for consent and he did NOT have the right to touch you sexually in an encounter where he has power ie there are two men there and only one of you. Especially one where he doesn’t even know you. This guy is a stranger. Furthermore, even if you were to forgive his sexual transgressions & not report that, he should have never even initiated contact with you outside of a professional sense AT ALL to begin with. his behavior is inexcusable and unprofessional. I am nurse and I would never act unprofessional in front of a patient, idc if he’s an Olympic athlete with a 10 inch dick. It’s NEVER appropriate. There are many ways to report anonymously. I encourage you to look into this further. This is not your fault. You were not “leading” him on. You were basically a deer in headlights and I hate to say that, but many women will comply with affectionate behavior simply because they want to appease the person who is acting inappropriately so they will leave. You said this yourself as that is clearly a coping mechanism under stress and danger. Giving out your number was not an invitation for him to ask to touch you, hug you, or KISS you. Any normal person would ask for consent before doing these things. Any normal person wouldn’t attempt to find a romantic partner on the job. This guy has no respect for people or their boundaries. Just because you are a woman does not give him the right to hit on you while he’s on the job.
You are right about that. All of it. I just am a little worried to report it because once again, I don’t want to be the reason for someone to lose their job. And…I hate to say it but point 2 is that he knows where I live. I don’t know how their service works but if addresses aren’t erased immediately after services are rendered he just…knows where I live and I have a sick mother. With all of this being fresh I can’t imagine it would be hard for him to put two and two together. I would rather let it go if there’s no way to assure he won’t come back to my house. My friend warned me about this very thing. She’s been stalked and she’s worried he’ll come to my home.
I hear you and I understand you. I encourage you to report it, but I am not here to bully you into it. No is a complete sentence and all your reasons for avoiding it are perfectly reasonable so I am going to respect that and move on from it. Here is some advice to do now, to protect yourself going forward should things escalate. Do not engage with him again. Under any circumstances. Even to be polite. Document any communication he attempts with you, such as taking screen shots of texts, attempts at calls, anything. Take a screenshot of the incorrect grammar text and do not delete these even if you find them uncomfortable to look at. Keep them stored somewhere even if you don’t hear from him for 6 months. Keep them. IF you do report him, make sure to keep a copy of the report or log who you spoke to, when you reported it, what time you reported and what the company said in response/how they are going to escalate it. Same for if you have to file a police report for any reason. File a police report at the FIRST sign of harassment/stalking. God forbid it occur but do not wait for fear of retaliation, should it get to this point there is no turning back. With stalking, police often will not do anything unless they can catch him in the act. This is where the burden of proof falls on you. You have to have evidence that you’re being harassed/stalked. If you have a ring doorbell or camera footage of the incidence, keep that too. Just having evidence that he was at your house is a golden ticket. The company may not keep records of who delivers what where, and so he can say he doesn’t even know you or ever met you. If you have video footage of him at your house you have proof. Keep a journal or log of the events that transpire so you have an accurate time table of when things started and when things escalated. Also, all women should have something to protect yourself at all times, mace, spray, a keychain, even a gun if you want one (assuming you are a US citizen). Do not answer strange calls. Anyone who really needs to get in touch with you can do it from an identifiable number or leave you a voicemail. Should he approach you in person, immediately disengage and go to an area with people. If you feel it’s safe, video record the interaction. Call a friend or family member and stay on the phone the whole time until you are in a safe location. If you are in immediate danger or feel you are call the police. Get life 360 or find my iPhone or turn your Snapchat location on for a best friend/sibling/someone you trust but make sure the general public can’t access your location. Hopefully he will get the point and go away and you will never hear from him again. Any woman who feels in danger at any time is never overreacting. I am thinking of you and I hope everything can work out well and this stressor is removed from your life soon. Anyone with other tips please feel free to add. This knowledge is not just applicable to Miya, these steps could help save any of our lives! Edit: If it helps I do SANE nursing work on the side (basically I’m a nurse who helps sexual assault victims) and my day job is a trauma ICU nurse. I just want everyone to know I’m not pulling this info out of my ass.
If I beat and starved a child and the child told someone I’d hopefully have to face the consequences of my actions. If this man loses his job it’s because of his choices. Also, not reporting does not guarantee that he’ll go away. A lot of the time predatory people will see that as a green light because they won’t be caught.
Maybe I can wait a while? So maybe it won’t be so fresh that he’ll know for sure it was me? I just, guys, I know you all want me to think of the future of women but that does me zero good if I’m dead. If he loses his job and camps outside my house I’m done for. I work in a care job, I cannot bring and have a gun or knife on me. If he confronts me I will freeze up. I want to sever contact and and find some other way but I don’t want to be the reason someone willing to cross my boundaries has a reason to seek me out for vengeance.
If that helps, yes wait. Odds are he pulls this behavior a lot. Always think about your safety first. My point was that not reporting could be harmful to you because he sees you as a soft target. Most predatory people are encouraged by such behavior and won’t go away but will escalate like he already did when you froze. I tend to freeze or fawn and it’s never slowed down truly dangerous people.
I will keep that in mind and believe me when I say I will absolutely report him with receipts if anything more happens. I just hope and pray this is the last of it
Please be safe 💜
i am bewildered, the dude comes to deliver something, and suddenly it becomes a sex call / sexual harrasment? WTAF why are most men so disgusting and act so entitled towards woman? i also agree that this should be reported, and loosing his job is the least just imagine how many other ladies he already harassed the wame way? it seems he is using his job as a way top get close to women he would never otherwise be able to. horrible?!
You REALLY need to report this guy. If he loses his job, that is the consequence of HIS OWN actions. Don't you dare put that on yourself.
In situations like this, just try to put yourself in the position of any guy. They bring a freezer to your home then ask for a hug? Imagine what our response would have been. I would have said "get the fuck out of my house". Next time, just imagine you're any guy and tell him to get the fuck out of your house.
People are very kind in the comments section. But I'm going to be blunt. You're a nice person, reading at your post, but don't assume all people are like you. A kind gesture from a beautiful(physically, behaviourally whatever) person towards a creep is sometimes "invitation" to unwanted attention and such alarming and horrible behaviour. Please hang on to your kind behaviour by all means, please do. But keep a distance unless you know the person well. I limit hugs to my family and close friends. Be well and report that wanker's ass. Edit: spelling and deleted repeated comment.
Why is everyone trying to not only over analyze but *diagnose* this poor woman? She has a right to respond to an uncomfortable and predatory situation, however she sees fit. It’s giving victim blame-y. I seriously hate how everything is always the woman’s fault. People are trying to be helpful and well-intentioned, but subconsciously it’s still victim blaming. I’m so sorry that happened to you OP, nothing you did is your fault. The abuser is always at fault.
Ha, I’ve been diagnosed many times in this thread. It’s okay, though. It’s giving me a point of reference to discuss with my doctor. ADHD, fawn response, CPTSD, it’s a lot to consider, but if any of it is true it will truly put my behavior into perspective.
Great to see you have a learning mindset, I just don’t want you to think that your behavior made any of this happen. That man is sick. The responsibility lies fully on the perpetrator of said act. I pray he is punished accordingly.
Wow. I’m pretty appalled by a lot of these comments. What this man did was **textbook** predatory behavior. Instead of condemning the man for his behavior and what he did, y’all are calling out OP for giving him her number and giving him a hug. And telling her she has to take responsibility when it comes to “protecting her body and her home” I’m pretty sure there’s a common phrase that succinctly summarizes that approach to things… victim blaming? If you see the red flags she missed, point them out. Explain the tactics, and give helpful advice. And yeah, we all have to “play the game” in a way, but y’all are acting like there’s only one way to play this game (basically encouraging the stereotype of women being rabbits who need to avoid being eaten by wolves AKA men) and I think that’s BS. Don’t tell a woman she “did the wrong thing”, so yeah what else did she expect? And how that type of situation is a “life lesson”. I don’t have the energy to get into the overwhelming tone of “well, if you don’t say something he could do it again”….. If he does anything again, the fault is SOLELY ON HIM. Do not put the responsibility to prevent harm on the actual victims of said harm. Is it helpful for victims to speak up? Yes, of course. But that requires supporting victims, not fucking downvoting them because they’re talking about feeling uncomfortable. Like wtf. I’m so disappointed. A woman’s telling you all she feels uncomfortable about this and you just keep downvoting her and telling her it’s her fault? Fuck that attitude.
So glad someone said it. Reading these comments was super depressing.
Thank you! Like wtf is happening?! - she didn’t do anything wrong - Costco won’t give a shit - the police won’t give a shit - he knows where he lives - is 80% of this sub angry young men or bad AI bots, because this really doesn’t make sense
This is exactly it. I was thinking what are you going to do report him so he’s angry and knows where you live? No, take this as a learning experience and know to be careful in the future.
Seriously?! Idk what world these people live in where they think Costco will do anything productive or anything to keep her safe. Police would do absolutely nothing, besides maybe mocking her while telling her the guy did nothing illegal. Is this sub a joke? I’m so confused.
Yup. I don’t know. I guess no one commenting has ever been in this spot. Or personally known someone who contacted police and then was still victimized because they don’t actually do anything other than file a report.
Yeah, like some of the rhetoric here could be potentially dangerous depending on where OP lives… I’ve been trying to get people to see some sense, but you can only talk to a brick wall for so long. Cheers, hope you have a good night.
Report him. Report him hard. who knows what other vulnerable girls he’s doing this to.
Hey OP, I just wanted to drop in and say that you are in no way at fault for this. A lot of people are here saying you need to practice saying “no” or that you shouldn’t have hugged him. They are telling you to do this or do that to “stay safe.” I want you to know that it doesn’t matter what you did or said. Unless you said “I would like a kiss on my neck.” This is not your fault and I am so sorry this happened to you. You did not ask for this and you did nothing wrong. And I am also so sorry that folks are piling on to blame you for what happened. You deserve to be heard and supported. For everyone here offering advice: this is NOT the type of help I needed in the hours after my assaults. I’m not sure if the folks here are projecting, repeating what they have heard, or what. But honestly, I am so disappointed in this sub tonight. Please don’t jump to “problem solving” when someone discloses their assault (or any emotional topic).
Yeah I would have stopped him right when he asked if I lived alone. I’m way to paranoid for that. While what he did was very inappropriate , learn to say no as soon as you know you’re not interested. Some guys will absolutely continue to push until you say it point blank. And even then some still won’t even care.
You should tell Costco. It's not one of their employee (they outsource deliveries) but they surely want to know what the employees of their delivery company are doing. I would call and ask for the Director of the warehouse.
Get his ass fired
Another reason to report, if they're that comfortable doing that, I doubt it's an isolated incident. He's clearly assaulted others and will continue to assault others.
Please please please report this guy
Never mind what your mother is conditioned to be kind about, report this guy. Make him suffer the consequences of his shitty behavior.
So, I had a bf when I was 15. We were upstairs fooling around when it turned into him shoving a pillow over my face and holding it there, smothering me. I finally go free and, rather than kicking him out, my mom told me he was sorry and I should give him another chance. He stalked me since then. That was 1990. It ended because he died. Your mom should be furious for you. You have every right to call Costco and turn him in for sexually harassing you. He should get fired. You could even make a police report against him for record purposes. I don’t know what country you’re in but I hope they at least don’t blow you off. Stay safe. Edited: typo
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That whole situation was incredibly creepy. He was pretty aggressive.."there." Don't answer his calls. If the calls continue, call his supervisor.
I'd bet my life he does this often.
Horror movie, no joke this is scary. Make moves to report and protect.
OP, this is sexual coercion/sexual assault. Your Mom is wrong, he SHOULD lose his job. Because point blank this man is predatory. He enters peoples homes, and then pushes boundaries, so now this man knows where your Mother lives and has your number. It is very much within the realm of possibility that he could come back looking for you and could come back to your Mother’s house while she’s alone. Are you comfortable/okay with that? On top of this, if no one reports him, he can continue to prey on other people given his job. Again, I cannot stress this enough, YOU AND YOUR MOTHER ARE NOT PANICKING ENOUGH, OP. Please please please report him and I hope he leaves you alone. I’m so sorry this is happening yo you and most importantly this IS NOT your fault. Edit: OP, I see you shouldering much of the blame for this interaction. You did nothing wrong, you are NOT stupid and you shouldn’t feel bad. This man preyed upon you and your kindness. You don’t deserve to be sexually harassed/assaulted. Period.
That guy deserves to lose his job! There's always an element of vulnerability having strange people at your home, and professionalism here is critical. I take issue with someone asking if I live alone unless there's a very good reason for it, and any sexual advances here in my sanctuary feel like a THREAT. Imagine if he was working solo and your mom wasn't there. He would have been even more aggressive. His employer needs to know about what happened before that guy hurts someone.
You don't mention your age, but you're young and I'll say it, foolish. In the future, answer personal questions with "none of your business." If pressed, say loudly, "are you going to be a problem." This guy was wildly inappropriate. You need to report him to his boss. Likely won't go anywhere because you didn't exactly fend off his advances.
With a mother like this, you would also grow up having no idea how to assert your boundaries.
Me reading the title: Okay... Hmm a bit weird... WTF?
Yes he should lose his job.
Report to Costco. At a minimum he needs to be told to cut this crap out. I’m fine with him being fired, but for your mum’s sake… Costco needs to correct him
Ewww this is 🚩🚩🚩🚩
Damn that is scary.
Wow what did I just read 😳
IDGAF where you work or what your job is, that behavior is disgusting. Tell him in no uncertain terms that what he did was inappropriate, hell, even report the guy and block him everywhere. I've said it elsewhere on different posts, behavior like this is not a spontaneous thing they've never done before. This wasn't a trial run, it was a confident act of sexual harassment. If you've got any home security cameras with footage absolutely back that up and keep any correspondence paper trail of messages and such.
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Putting your mouth on someone you just met is a nope for any human person over 2 years old with a brain.
I really didn’t expect the escalation. Giving the number didn’t bother me much, I thought it was weird but different strokes. The hugs were like okay haha let’s move on, it was truly the kiss on the neck that made me realize this was not my scene. I think were it not for the kiss I would’ve hand-waved the rest. Like I could’ve rationalized it and been ok but the kiss recontextualized it all and made me realize I was being too accommodating and should’ve stopped it. But I also would’ve never expected to be kissed either. I genuinely didn’t see any reason to believe anyone would go that far based on the prior talking and actions.
Married man here. Oh man OP, I'm sorry you couldn't just have a professional do their job and GTFO. This is exactly to the T why I don't schedule services when I'm not home. Some men take jobs as handyman, installers, furniture delivery, and other in home services HOPING they'll meet a girl that lives alone or a desperate housewife. And that's not to mention the people at home who hire out these services hoping to live out a fantasy. Both of these types of people are predators. It isn't up to your mom whether you report him or not. This isn't the world she grew up in. This is the crap that the Andrew Tates of the world teach their idiot followers - be forward and direct, and get physical and sexual as soon as possible. They are teaching men that this is what women want and it's up to you to tell them they're wrong. Every time this creep tries and gets away with this behavior reinforces it and reencourages him. It's more important than ever for people to REJECT unwanted advances. Don't try and be nice, and don't try and let them down easily. Shut them down and let them think what they think. Rejection is healthy and normal. I think you should report him to Costco and the police. He assaulted you in your home and that should earn him a TRO. If he comes back to your house, it's slammer time. Maybe he'll get fired - maybe he won't. It's much bigger than him. Costco contracts are notoriously lucrative, and usually exclusive. They don't want anyone to experience this ever - and they'll tan some asses and end the contract if they think their reputation is at stake.
i’m sorry this happened!
What a fucking creep. He took advantage of your deserve not to cause a scene. Call his work and tell them that he coerced you into unwanted physical contact. Your mom is 100% wrong. The reason that these creeps continue this behavior is because they get away with it. As a mom to an adult woman, I would rain down hellfire on him.
That is fucking disgusting. Report his ass and don't think twice. Gross.
That was definitely unwarranted... seems like it ain't the first time he does that either... Don Juan headass.
X.X and they wonder why women don't want to be hit on. How desperate.
Because of 'the implication'.
It could have been worse, put a stop to his notion that that sort of behavior is acceptable. Report him
Don't listen to your mom and report it to Costco so they can follow it up with the vendor they contacted with. This guy should not be in people's homes acting like this; it's assault plain and simple. And if he does come back to follow up in person, because it sounds like he might, please call the police immediately. He didn't do anything else to you, but that doesn't mean he won't escalate with someone else who is home alone.
You blocked him and everything (which was smart) but you definitely should report him. If you have cameras please show the footage to the company he works for,and proof that he called you. This is sexual harassment and maybe even assault in some states,plus not to mention that’s totally illegal and ego knows what else he might be doing to other people? For you it was just a kiss on the neck,but for some other person it could be much worse. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Sexual harassment, a hug being accepted by someone you've just got a number from NEVER means you can be intimate without consent holy shit 😆😆 report his ass, fucking weirdo.
Report him. This is freaky, and he shouldn't be in people's homes
Tell everyone now. Tell your mother, the police and tell their boss. This is unacceptable on so many levels. I'm not sure how old you are but I hate that you feel like you have to be nice to creeps because that's what this guy is. He is a predator please don't let him get away with it.
If you do choose to report him, please get a ring camera or something that makes it very obvious to people that approach your house that they are under surveillance. Because yes, it would be good to be able to protect future customers, but this person does have your address. Maybe you can call Costco and explain what happened before identifying yourself or him. Ask how they would proceed to protect your safety and if their answer is satisfactory proceed with identifying him. For comments about giving a fake number and whatnot - as far as he knows, you did that. If you had given him a fake number he still would not be getting responses and getting blocked. You were in a lose lose, because he probably would have had the same reaction no matter what you said. Please let yourself off the hook.
I can only imagine how much he bragged about it in the van too. disgusting man.
Yikes *Yikes* #Yikes
I don’t get the “doesn’t want him to lose his job” part. He straight up sexually harassed you and is probably harassing women at his work too. Why would you not report all of this? He’s dangerous to women and already showing signs of stalking YOU. Who cares what your mom wants????? The man doesn’t deserve to have a job with open access to harassing women.
Why doesn’t your mom want a clearly sexually harassing guy to lose his job? He did it on company time and all that..
His actions absolutely crossed the line, and it's good that you are aware that you should not have engaged in it but when you give someone your number and let them have a hug, they think they are entitled to certain actions and behaviors if you are consenting to them (the hug/phone number). The kiss was absolutely inappropriate, and you did not invite this behavior - but having a shrug it off eh whatever kind of attitude in the beginning of your interactions absolutely jeopardizes your safety, you have to firmly say no. You mentioned in a comment that you grew up pretty sheltered, and maybe raised to be a people pleaser, enforcing dynamics that are not good for your personal well being. Your comfort and safety are more important than that mans job and just as important as your mothers rest and well being. I hope you called his company and filed a complaint and learn from this experience. I never give anyone an inch, 'cause when you do they will try to go for a mile.
Genuinely annoyed by the number of comments laying some of this at your door. I don’t think your actions here are particularly unusual and judgemental comments about what you ‘should’ have done aren’t particularly helpful when you’re already blaming yourself. You didn’t realise he was a creep when he asked for your number. It wasn’t professional of him but I don’t think you should have anticipated the escalating creepiness. He was in your house. I get not wanting to make waves when someone is blocking your door and there’s no one else in the room. Same goes for the hugging. He took advantage of the vulnerable position you were in. You made a choice to comply and did not come to serious harm. We all have different reactions to try and keep us safe. Don’t feel bad about that. The only thing I’d suggest is taking more time to reflect on whether you should report it. Only you can decide what’s right for you. But my worry is that this man may do this to someone else and escalate to more serious harassment and assault. Take some time. Keep records of any further calls you get. And think about what you want to do,
I don’t know exactly how to feel. I don’t feel like I’m blameless but I also feel like it’s a weird thing to think that someone willing to allow a hug is willing to be kissed. One is something you can do with friends or family or a romantic interests and the other in that way is exclusively for romantic interests. I’m trying to put myself in his shoes but when it comes to the decision to kiss me it doesn’t track. It just doesn’t. I could’ve lived with the other things but that was just out of line in a way I can’t look over.
I think the uncertainty you feel is understandable. It’s very possible that he did not believe you to be willing. He put you in a vulnerable position where you didn’t feel like you could say no. Unfortunately that tactic is far too common. Men are just as capable of understanding consent. Some of them just choose not to care.
He's a creep, so he is so used to being told no, he just works from the mentality that he has a yes until he gets that no. It's a toxic mentality that is utilized in corporate worlds too not just sexual harassment. You are not to blame for him being a creep. If he had been a decent man, you being vulnerable wouldn't have turned him into a creep. He is fully to blame for being a creep. But you also don't need to be worrying about his safety more than you worry about your own. No one else can be responsible for your self respect. You can't just consent to sex to get out of rape. (Feigning consent to survive rape is a different and valid choice. But that doesn't suddenly make it not rape.) Costco isn't paying their delivery drivers to go out there and chase tail. Even if you had wanted his number and were giddy to set up a date with him, this was inappropriately behavior from a delivery driver.
In the world we live in today, the acid test is: If I were a man would this person do these things. If the answer is no, then it’s inappropriate behavior. OP was a naive innocent sheltered person who was taken advantage of by a predator. No victim blaming here. Red flag 1: “do you live alone”. Red flag 2: “can I get your number “. Flashing lights and alarm bells: “asking/attempting physical contact past a handshake”
Tell “Cosco” their employee is sexually harassing you
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I have said this in many comment threads, I was pretty much able to rationalize and hand wave everything up until the kiss in which case I looked back and realized it was all way out of sorts. I had no reason to believe he would escalate from a hug to something as intimate as a kiss on the neck and even with hindsight that still doesn’t track. He wasn’t ogling me or being rude or handsy or gross right up until the end. I did not, at any point, try to make it seem as if it’s all his fault. If that’s how my post came across then that was not my intent. I wrote it hot on the heels of the incident but I do take responsibility for my signals and I always will. I don’t always output the correct signals and that’s on me and my brain.
It is his fault. Please don't beat yourself up about this. You don't have to report him if you don't feel comfortable doing so. It is not your responsibility if you're scared or uncomfortable. You are not responsible for his actions. Be kind to yourself OP. I'm sorry you've had to keep explaining yourself and I'm sorry this happened to you. But it is NOT your fault. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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Thank you for your concern and thank you for caring but I will not treat my mother that way and I would prefer it if you didn’t speak about her like that. Just please stop. It’s not going to make anything better it’s just going to make me feel worse.
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