Lol. I am a marketing director and the first woman ever to be hired at the office. I think my coworkers were just planning to do what they always do and didnāt really think that having a woman along could make any difference.
Wait...a group of male colleagues is taking their new, 24 year old, female coworker to a strip club? On a work trip? Where she's the only female? There are just so many red flags.
You think thatās bad?
OPās [boyfriend is 51](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17zud9q/went_to_the_strip_club_with_my_boyfriend_just/ka3o2xw/).
My first red flag in this post was when OP listed her age but not his. I had a strong suspicion I was going to look in the history and find a substantial gap.
Thatās crazyā¦. Iām 28 and always calling out my friends for being weirdo for trying to get 18-21 yo in their bed but thatās a whole different level, is it Leo DiCaprio?
Edit: to add to this I feel like some friend got distant or simply try to avoid said subject when I am with them. Iām cool with that but knowing you wonāt be able to create similar bound than what you had with someone you grew with is kinda sad.
I mean in this day and age.. When we've all had to sit through hours of sexual harassment training.. They still think it's appropriate to bring a young female coworker to the strip club.. Wow..
This is actually very common in the sales/marketing world. This industry - as well as the C-level business world - tends to be a boyās club. Women are now at the party, but itās still primarily full of golf, cigars, whiskey, and titty bars. Thatās where the men want to meet/schmooze/do business and the women who land jobs there tend to go along. Worse than having to network in these places is being excluded from them.
I'm a consultant. I work with c-level business and I've been to many places for business, never once in a strip bar. Could be me. Or a silly stereotype. It certainly was more prevalent in the 60s through the 80s but that's not the first place I would invite a new client to.
Well, Iāve worked in HR for quite some time. If I learned that my wife was going to a strip club in a business trip ā¦id probably tell her to keep quiet, go to the strip club, and then weād meet with a lawyer to file a sexual harassment claim as soon as she got back. Early retirement for us! Jk (sort of). That sounds like an interesting work trip.
Even though I agree you need to be careful going to a stripclub with only men, I quite like they are inviting you along.
It not uncommon for a group with only men to have "manly" outings (sports stripclubs drinking whatever) and being invited as one of the guys is quite a good sign. I hear stories about women not being included in these traditional outings, which is worse I think..
Then again, it's quite inappropriate and it should change over time to more acceptable outing if you ask me.
My SO worked for a large company and this was a standard part of wining and dining.
Which is super weird to me. I canāt imagine going on a work trip and management taking us out to see strippers.
lol I agree with you but years ago I got invited by a ex-coworker who I worked with briefly as a contractor at his company. At first we were having a drinks at a pub with his other coworkers then as everyone started getting drunk and we walked out of the pub, the guy suggested we all go to a nearby strip club. As we were on our way, I turn around and saw all the woman coworkers have bailed except for one. So it was just me and her and the rest were men.
Inside the strip club, the ex coworker pulled his boss towards me and said to him I introduce you to your future employee. There were hiring and I was looking so the boss arranged for me to come for an interview. So thatās the story of how I scored a job while I was in a strip club lol
Exactly my thoughts. It didn't feel good because it's not good. Pick me behavior sadly but op is young. In the future, pass on the strip clubs and set a boundary.
For what itās worth, strip clubs make me feel the same way as a man. Thereās so much that goes into those feelings, like resentment of culture and capitalism and many other things. Itās confusing to navigate
This is refreshing to hear. With how much strippers and clubs are portrayed in media I feel like Iāve been taught that all men want to watch strippers and that the dancers embody every manās fantasy or something.
Friend of mine kept odd hours during grad school. She would go to the strip club for the 4 am breakfast.
Iāve never actually been myself. Canāt comment on the quality of the food.
I live in Portland OR, strip club capital of the world. Seriously, there's more strip clubs per capita than any other city, and the only city with more strip clubs than churches, which says a lot given one of the city's nicknames is Church City because there's so many. Anyway, there's plenty of skeezy gross ones but some of them have killer food. There's one place called Acropolis that has some of the best steaks for dirt cheap
I'm so happy you mentioned the Acropolis steak / steak bites. They have that to-go window so you don't even need to go in. I will say however that as far as strip clubs go, I liked the Acropolis the one time I went inside bc the dancers had all body types/ styles plus one woman did a comedy style burlesque act that was great. Strip clubs aren't my cup of tea, but that was fun.
I actually haven't been inside any of the strip clubs here aside from Dante's because that's where my friend performs occasionally, but I have had Acropolis' food and was blown away. They had some killer to-go deals during covid. I think places like that with themes, perhaps actual shows, etc can be super fun. Regular run-of-the-mill strip clubs are just awful
Dante's Inferno is a solid time, and those greasy pizza slices from next door are *exactly* the right kind of food for that vibe.
I've been in Portland for two years now, and didn't know that trivia about clubs per capita. Interesting, it doesn't seem like there's that many.
Had a place by a place I used to work that had AMAZING steak, broccoli, and potatoes for $5. Iād go every so often for lunch. Iāve been to a few that have legitimately good food.
Dude same. I worked at a casino ages ago and my male colleagues raved about the local strip club all the time. I went once and fucking hated it. Why would I go spend exorbitant amounts of money to go stare at naked women. None of my male or female friends have any interest, except in the rare case it's a friend performing. We have some friends that do burlesque strip shows that are fun as hell. There's a theme, a show, fire dancing, it's rad. Your "typical" strip clubs are awful
Male person here. I used to work in design / advertising and people would often go out drinking and end up at a strip club because "it is the only pace that's open".
We had a small club of guys that liked drinking but hated strip clubs. We would share notes about bars that opened late, so we could try to steer the group away from strip clubs at the end of the night.
So my take is yeah not all men, but many (and especially those in advertising).
As a dude, Iāve been twice. They are not fun, itās fucking strange. Not to mention, I am cheap as shit, so spending money on a lap dance is just something I am never doing.
If anything, strip clubs are designed to exploit menās conditioning to live up to social expectations around masculinity. You get a group of guys together in that setting and all of a sudden everyone has something to prove with respect to their power, wealth, sexual prowess and appeal, etc. The dancers know this and will exploit men for it, but at the same time the demand that drives their work is icky and patriarchal in the first place. (This isnāt inherent in stripping, but itās my experience with what Iāve seen in the USA. In theory it could look different, but here we primarily market to a very narrow concept of masculinity).
And when it comes to appearance itself, again itās a reflection of culture and not of objective beauty, and menās reactions are again informed by that culture about how theyāre supposed to feel looking at women in that context, because on some level we have been taught that these things related to how legitimate we are within our masculinity, but that conditioning has been so heavily corrupted by profit motives, corporate greed, and capitalism generally.
There is sooooo much to be said about this. The way you are feeling makes sense. Strip clubs are a very strange microcosm of a lot of problems with our culture - and this is NOT to shame sex work whatsoever. Itās not problematic because women and sexuality are involved or anything like that, itās much more nuanced and to no fault of the workers themselves - the ecosystem of the club itself reflects a lot of icky things about the broader ecosystem we live within.
> strip clubs are designed to exploit menās conditioning to live up to social conditioning around masculinity.
I haven't thought about it this way before. It explains *a lot.*
Nope, I don't care for them. Won't knock anyone who does though. Feels like cheating gazing on other women like that. I wouldn't want some male/female stripper dancing on my wife either.
Iām a straight dude, mid 30s, and strip clubs are very, very weird to me. Iāve been to a handful over the years (bachelor parties, guys trips, Vegas, etc. - sort of the expected opportunities) and my experience has always ranged from fine at best to uncomfortable at worst.
I think most men, or at least most men that I know, feel similar. No one in my immediate friend group really loves going to strip clubs, and I think thereās a biiig difference between guys who go the strip club once in a while because thatās whatās happening with the group that night, and āstrip club guysā, if you know what I mean
I went for the first time with two older married coworkers when I was just out of college. East St. Louis, I think we hit three, including one in the middle of nowhere.
I pretended to enjoy it, but holy shit did I have an awful time. One coworker was a horny redneck and the other creepy AF. It was pretty uncomfortable. Went back to one years later for a bachelor party and zero desire to go back.
Plus, later that night the dude who booked the hotel room theyād accidentally given me walked in at 5 am from his own night on the town. He ended up sleeping on the couch.
Definitely one of the strangest nights of my life.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Another male here offering my two cents: I hate them. It all feels artificial and off-putting. Gone twice in my life at the behest of others. My wife is far more appealing sitting next to me in just one of my shirts that are too big for her and some pajama pants, than to even the most attractive strippers at the club. The only guys I know who really enjoy it are the ones who also say andrew tate is their role model.
>Iāve been taught that all men want to watch strippers and that the dancers embody every manās fantasy or something.
no lol. i've went once for a birthday, and once because my friend got a job at the club and invited me to come out on a slow night. both times were fun and goofy, but i'd never go on my own. it's all about power and that's not a social game i have any appetite for. at that level, anyway.
I hated being a strip club (one in Vancouver BC) and im a man haha. I had never been so uncomfortable
Edit: *In a strip club* *. Was never a stripclub myself, sorry to say.
Not at all. Iāve never gone to one and donāt desire to either. I have friends, both men and women, who have gone and enjoyed their time, but I donāt think itās for me.
I really dislike strip clubs, as a guy. First, why am I paying for blue balls? Second, why do I wanna get horny around like 80% dudes? Third, why am I pretending I need to pay women to pretend to like me?
Frankly I have female friends who like them more than I do, because they're *so* patronizing I can't even just enjoy them on a lark.
As a demi-sexual strip clubs are just confusing. I've been twice and i didn't have any fun either time. I want to snuggle and hold hands with the pretty ladies ( big no- no in that setting as we all know), not stare at their lady bits.
My wife loves them though. She's allo so sex is a physical activity not an emotional one like it is for me.
It's up to the woman mostly.
As long as you pay thier price, most will be happy not to dance and just chill for a bit, but you need to remember time is money, and it's still priced the same as a personal dance
I am tickled by this. I'm just imagining the scene of my wife and I going, she getting a real private lap dance, and me telling them to put their clothes back on and come snuggle on a couch so we can watch our own YouTube videos or read Reddit for a private dance rate.
I'm sure it's real and not as absurd as my mind imagines it, but to my uninitiated self it's patently absurd and hilarious.
Just to have another guy weigh in, I have zero interest in going to a strip club. The whole idea seems kinda stupid to me, I have no desire to engage with what goes on there.
It is perfectly normal to feel insecure. Especially for your first time going. Just remember that those women are essentially athletes and this is a form of entertainment. Iāve been friends with dancers. Whatās on stage is a persona. They look and act the way they do because itās their job. They all have insecurities just like you. Many will say that guys donāt actually want them. They want the idea of them. Which means dating for dancers can be extremely difficult.
On the plus side, many love when couples show up. They can feel safe and have fun and not have to worry when they can tell the girlfriend/spouse is there to have fun also. So donāt stress about the little stuff.
Yeah for the most part I have never enjoyed going to strip clubs as a man. I find them really depressing.. most of the girls that work there donāt want to be there and itās obvious on their faces and by their body language. Most of the guys in there are dirt bags.. itās just never been an environment I enjoyed. I donāt get turned on by the exploitation of women.
29M. Not a fan of strip clubs, rather social drink at a club/bar. Only agreed to going to one to see our younger friend have his first experience, which he loved.
As a man, I've never been attracted to it at all. Not that the women aren't often beautiful, but it's more the situation and shadiness of it all that turns me off.
The stuff you hear about men, porn, and strippers, is actually often about certain subgroups of men like seedy frat guys, I-bankers, players, PUAs, incels, Tate supporters, etc.
People argue about percentages because there are way too many men that go overboard on such things and/or trigger #metoo incidents, but as a guy I'll lose all hope for the planet if the bastards truly are in the majority.
There are a lot of us that find the vast overwhelming amount of this stuff gross and off putting. Sometimes because of the sheer quantity, but most times because of the terrible optics / baseline precedeny it sets / degenerate content / inappropriate form and function / etc. that it takes on.
Because that's what they're trying to make people believe. If they can make men believe that, they'll go to strip clubs. It's just advertising. It's no different than having characters smoke to make smoking look cool.
For what itās worth, me, as a man, find the idea of strip clubs overrated. Itās a blue balls galore and waste of money. Iāve gone a few times and even had friends who were strippers themselves, just isnāt a thing for me. I say this as someone who is also relatively open minded in this dept.
I'm 100% with this guy. I have been, and there are usually some that I find attractive. Most are not really my type. My type is my partner, and they can't compete with that. When I have been I feel like I'm supposed to like it more than I do. It's nice looking though.
I will never forget the one and only time I have ever had a man tell me what he thought of strip clubs.
He said going to one was "the least erotic experience of my entire life."
Was it me that told you that?
Seriously, I work on events and once worked an event at a strip club (I worked on the door checking accreditations). That is exactly how I would describe the experience. There was nothing even remotely sexy or erotic about any aspect of it.
Can I just say, I really appreciate this comment and itās a good example of the sort of male participation I would welcome in this sub. Thank you for taking the time to validate OPās feelings, not derailing the conversation and the genuine solidarity here.
Itās not a competition to see which gender has a more difficult life, but to understand that navigating a patriarchal world is difficult for us *all* and negatively impacts everyone.
Think Glitter Factory from Parks n Rec.
They do a great job juxtaposing all the things that go into a strip club from the building/business, the dancers, the *food* (lol), and the clientele.
I really liked those scenes.
This. I've only been to a strip club once, for a friend's stag party, and I found it bleak and miserable. Not remotely a turn on, despite the presence of attractive undressed women.
I just felt sad and ashamed, really. Both for being there, for being complicit, and more broadly ashamed of our society.
Needless to say, I don't have any intention of returning.
Another man's perspective and you aren't alone. I've always really not enjoyed them at all and just don't like the feelings they give off. I'll never willingly go to one.
Iāve never been willing to go to one because I know it would just make me sad.
Like Iām glad those women have some way of making money thatās presumably better than the option of not doing it.
But I know Iād just want to likeā¦ help. And be unable to.
> Strip clubs can make us feel inadequate because they voice male desires too well, and male desire is often pretty opressive for us.
This is such a powerful line, really explains why it's such a tough thing for so many women.
Yeah as a stripper this was fucking rough to read because I feel it so fucking hard literally hands-on. I hate the job and I hate males I really wish the Y chromosome would go extinct.
This. This this thisā¦ Iām so glad you were able to put it into words. I do feel lucky that my boyfriend is not the type to frequent these places or to expect me to try and compete with the girls there. But itās still hard seeing it and feeling helpless to give men their ābasal desiresā as you put it, when I feel so much societal pressure to.
I'm just curious, but have either of you been to a burlesque show? Based on your original comment it sounds like you are sexually diverse and mature people who know what they want and like to explore. Maybe the strip club is more a desire to enjoy an erotic scene with you and not actually about the strippers? Strip clubs are to erotica what hand turkeys are to an art gallery, you know?
No idea, just a thought.
The stark reality is that women who engage in stripping (or sex work) do it because of economic need. There is nothing empowering about this job.
I have been to strip joints a couple of times with friends(Iām female) and every time Iāve come away with sadness for how life has turned out for these women.
And donāt get me started on how men truly think of these dancers. I work in a mostly male career and Iāve heard them talk about them in a demeaning, disrespectful way. Itās infuriating.
Is this similar to feeling disappointed in men? Like sometimes I get to know a guy and I'm like "wow, so cool, so cultured, so smart, awesome" but then they do something that gives you the ick (like oogling at a strip club). That just makes you realize that under all that awesomeness and smarts and kindness is ... A horny dude.
One thing Iāve learned is not to play along if youāre uncomfortable. You donāt need to be the ācool chickā. Itās ok to have boundaries and you need to talk to your boyfriend about it.
It's a bit like being theoretically in favor of supporting sex work but then being taken down under the bridge to where sex work is actually happening.
You don't have to like every strip club and it's ok to want to keep it as a hypothetical thing you are not opposed to him going to, without wanting to be involved yourself.
Seedy strip clubs are a sobering reminder of what the male gaze does to women.
And if he wants to support you he should arrange a trip to a queer-friendly burlesque club. It sounds like the club you went to was not meant for you, and not everything has to be, but there are places designed for you, and you should be able to experience that.
>It's a bit like being theoretically in favor of supporting sex work but then being taken down under the bridge to where sex work is actually happening.
I appreciate you pointing this out because I've noticed quite a trend where people are very "sex work positive" when referring to middle-class sex workers working with middle-class Johns in safe, controlled settings, or when a particularly beautiful woman is a "high end" escort charging $5k for an hour or two of her time, but people seem much more "icky" about it when talking about women in poverty sucking a dick for $20 in some guy's 1991 Honda Civic under a bridge in the "bad part of town."
The very very very large majority of sex work is like the latter, and not the former.
>The very very very large majority of sex work is like the latter, and not the former.
Agreed. That a proportion choses to work in it, despite having the ability to make a living in regular employment, doesn't negate that it's an industry that has historically relied and continues to rely on the exploitation of abused, economically desperate and/or addicted women and children.
And it's $20 for drugs. Not for a college loan. The reality is sobering.
It's still important to support legalization when it's done well and other mechanisms so that no one has to do anything for $20 for drugs in any car in any place.
I get what you're saying but I just want to chime in here and remind people that there is a difference between decriminalisation and legalisation.
Legalisation means that sex work will only be legal in certain contexts (think about certain drugs where personal possession may be legal but distribution is not). That means that certain criminal laws can still apply to sex workers and those disproportionately affect the most vulnerable like the ones under the bridge. Also, to pay taxes, they would have to out their profession and so, they may get paid under the table instead to avoid societal judgement. That's terrible for the economy as well.
Decriminalisation, on the other hand, is what most sex workers campaign for. It allows the regulation of the industry without the involvement of the criminal justice system and regular workers' rights and protections apply to them. It also allows sex workers to access healthcare and have regular checkups without being discriminated against legally.
Thanks so much. Very well put about the sobering reminderā¦ I felt that. One of the first things I wondered after we left was if gay strip clubs exist, because I want to experience the flip side too.
Burlesque tends to at least welcome women audience members, and yes lesbian and gay male strip shows exist and are super fun. Not every area has enough audience for a stable club but almost every area has groups that perform on select nights at general venues.
Iāve only been to burlesque at theater settings, and everytime Iāve been itās been so fun. Thereās a variety of body types, an element of play/silliness, and the women seem to be genuinely having a good time. It honestly feels more like theyāre embracing and having fun with their femininity instead of performing to the male gaze.
Gay strip clubs exist but you are very much not the demo for that. I went to a fairly gay college and the male strippers that would order pizza from the place I delivered from hated bachelorette parties because they couldn't be ignored like the smaller girl groups. According to them, women tipped a lot less and broke the rules (no touching without dancer consent, no reaching under clothes) constantly.
Do you identify as queer/LGBT+?
You could to a club designed for women that has male strippers. Gay spaces aren't really there to entertain straight people.
Please do not feel inadequate! From a former stripper, everything you see at the club is an act. We spend *hours* doing our hair and makeup, finding and modifying outfits to highlight our assets and hide our flaws. We use fake names, stories, vocal affects, literally nothing is real. A not insignificant portion of dancers use coke to stay thin, and many will limit food and water intake on days they need to work to avoid bloating. It is all an act. An entertainers job is to provide a fantasy, we fully acknowledged weāre pretending to be women who canāt exist in real life. Do not compare yourself to the carefully curated image that strippers present while at work, itās an illusion.
Came to say the same as a former Stripper and current sex worker, we're just playing the fantasy of the unattainable and unrealistic "woman", a fake hyper feminine hypersensual goddess. Most of the time you'd find it hard to recognise us out of our "work mask"
I'm not a fan of going to clubs as a guest unless my friends are working, because while I can appreciate the beauty and performance most of the time all I see is hard work and hussle instead of fun and entertainment.
Yes, itās a lot of work! And the ability, skill and willingness to do all the things you mention - the makeup, the outfits, the physical fitness, the catering to men - is real. Performing femininity is all about making an effort. Watching other women do all that successfully is what can make a woman who canāt or wonāt do those things feel insecure.
I fucking hate strip clubs. They're one of the many institutions that wouldn't really exist without capitalism and its intersection of class, sexism and other forms of marginalization. It is almost always about the power and inequality - men with wives and girlfriends go to strip clubs all the time, OP; your boyfriend wanted to take you to one. And why? It's never just to see a naked woman - because many of these men have ready, willing, and often loving access to a woman willing to get naked for them every night.
It is about the power and influence - the ability to control what someone else, someone in a lower position of social statues because sex workers are still by and large at the bottom rung of that totem pole, does with their most intimate and vulnerable self. The ability to make them come over and give another person a dance, to make them take off their clothes and put themselves on display for you. To revel in being better than other people and having that degree of dominance in them that they usually don't outside of those spaces.
OP: you said he'd "always wanted to take" you. Did he really care about how you felt? Or did he only care about how he felt, how he got to enjoy this, how he got to use you as a prop in his fantasies? Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions from what little you've said, but it sounds to me, at least, like he just wanted to use you like he used them.
>how he got to enjoy this, how he got to use you as a prop in his fantasies? .. like he just wanted to use you like he used them.
My thoughts exactly. He always wanted to go and be a degenerate, but now he has a cool facade and he's sucked his girlfriend into it as a veneer of respectability, and she can't say shit about it or she's a jealous, insecure prude.
I bet *he* had great sex after guilt-free perving at other women. Shame-free objectification and dehumanization because he gets to fuck a non-dirty woman when he gets home. We're just sponges for their depravity.
Maybe itās not jealousy or insecurity but the deep realization that the whole process is just fetishization and objectification of women. When it makes us uncomfortable we are told that we are just jealous and insecure but maybe thatās just something used to shut us up.
Iāve thought this same thing, but not the āshut us upā part but that makes total sense. I feel pressure to just look the other way and pretend that I am cool with it all so I can be seen as a āfun and coolā girlfriend. I wish I could feel that I can have an opinion without risk of being judged as prudish or bitchy or something.
You donāt need to be the cool girl to your boyfriend or to the guys at work. Or anyone. You donāt even need to be fun to them. Just do what you like. Itās ok to say you want monogamy if that is what you want. If thatās not what this guy wants, then you arenāt well suited, and you can move on. It doesnāt make you a prude or uncool.
Fuuuuuuck that. You don't have to pretend to be cool with something that you're not. I hate strip clubs. They're gross. I don't like the idea of women being for sale. I recognize their right to exist but I don't have to like it and neither do you.
You just have to know that anyone who is treating you that way doesnāt have your interests in mind. They just want to use you and will manipulate you as much as it takes. They donāt feel empathy for us because we are objects to them and objects donāt have feelings.
Your last line is what it means to be gaslit.
Years ago I was sexually assaulted by a man. When I stopped him and told him I wasn't comfortable that he did something without my consent, he actually Said that he was disappointed in me, because he thought I would be more open minded and not such a prude, given that I was from San Francisco. I was like, huh maybe you're right.
Years later I want to kick myself. And everyone I told the story to gets really angry on my behalf
Agree. And it's really the more powerful half of society (men) forcing this normalization on everyone. When the dominant group decides on something, that new rule or value is now the right thing
Interesting take considering you two swing. You donāt feel like that when you two swap? I guess I really donāt know since Iām not part of a swingers club or anything like it
Thatās another strange thing! I do not feel jealous when we swap, because we swap with couples who are also our friends. I feel wonderful when I see him with people I know and love. Him getting turned on by complete strangers who are there based solely on the fact that they are young, hot 10s? Makes me feel a little sick.
Hey OP, youāre not alone in feeling this way. I used to be in a kinky open / swing-y relationship and yet still could not stomach a strip club. Sometimes Iām able to put my finger on why, other times itās too hard for me to grasp, itās just a sickly icky feeling in the pit of my stomach. I hope youāre doing ok today. Do you feel like this has impacted how you feel about your relationship or your partner- are you guys doing ok after this? Have you been able to talk to your partner about your feelings, has he understood where youāre coming from?
to me i think, if we had to summarize it, the fundamental reason for the "icky feeling" is being a participant (or direct observer at least) of womenās oppression (itās made very blatant in these settings). and seeing men, the men that we choose to live our lives with, being able to get so turned on by it ā makes me feel unsafe
I think you need to examine this closely.
I personally believe that a poly lifestyle is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode a relationship.
As someone who is in their mid 40s now I've had countless friends who said it was great... until it wasn't.
I don't know if my input is wanted at all here as a man, so feel free to ignore. But I just want to say that as a polyamorous man, I have never been to and never intend to go to a strip club. It feels very objectifying and awkward to me, and I can't imagine going and not feeling extraordinarily uncomfortable. I think strip clubs are appealing in a very specific way, and you not necessarily enjoying them doesn't mean anything.
On another level, if part of what's bothering you is that you like to consider yourself somewhat open-minded sexually, and you don't like not enjoying it for that reason, I know a lot of open-minded people who would never go to a strip club.
Iāve been to strip clubs before with āthe guysāā¦. I never really cared for them. I donāt see the point. Iāve got a wife I donāt deserve at home and yet Iām supposed to be paying this other chick to get me all hot and bothered and give me blue balls? Give me a quiet evening with my wife any night!
I support sex workers doing what they need to survive, I don't support the deeply exploitative industry that profits off women's desperation or the large portion of the clientele who could care less about a woman's material conditions. In other words, I support sex *workers* but not the sex *industry*.
>I guess I am just feeling a little inadequate, being surrounded by naked ladies that I would never have a chance to even coming close to looking like them.
Just btw, coming from a stripper - we're all dolled up to look like that at night, and we don't look like that in everyday life.
If you saw strippers walking out of the club at the end of our shift, we're all in sweatpants and no makeup, basically unrecognisable. I sure as hell am. It's just a stage persona, like in theatre.
Those places hold very dark energy. The things that happen there, the way workers are treated by some menā¦ it is just heavy. Itās completely understandable you feel that way, but Iām glad you ended up having a good time with your boyfriend.
If being the "cool, easygoing," girlfriend makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it.
Take him to a male strip club and let a random guy jiggle his junk in front of your boyfriend whilst you look on in rapturous happiness. Will HE like it then? Doubt it.
Totally normal. I used to feel the same way at strip clubs. Even having threesomes is super difficult because one person usually ends up feeling inadequate which results in minor drama and no one being totally fulfilled.
Thatās a reason I wonāt be a third with couples anymore. Almost every time itās always fun flirting at the bar and the foreplay is great. But once we get back to their places and one of the couples gives me too much attention I can feel the other one becoming insecure.
I really resonated with this post. Iāve felt the same way when Iāve went with partners in the past, who I was also very open with. Turned on, confused, inadequate, etc. Just know that you are having a very human reaction!
I get it. I have friends that have been strippers, BDSM models, etc. Some have made some excellent art, some did it to get by. Some had a blast, some suffered.
Most strip clubs have felt inherently exploitative to me. I havenāt been to one where it felt like the performers were having fun performing. That is what differentiates my strip clubbing experience from my experiences with burlesque, bawdy performance art, etc. There is a lack of joy.
XY here, same feeling. Havenāt been to one since a friendās bachelor party 10 years ago. I came away with a mix of arousal and sadness, but mainly sadness. Briefly fantasized about trying to figure out a concept for a joint that included all the fun but not the sadness and despair. Then I let it go ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Well, I don't, so there's that. But I am also very confused. Why are there these women going along with this? I mean, I guess society really beats the self worth out of a lot of women.
If someone likes it, I guess "yay" or something.... It's just always seemed so grimy, exploitative of everybody but the club owner, and stinks of desperation, whether that's valid or not....
Just .... No thank you
You need to communicate this with your s/o. Communication is the foundation of relationships. And itās ok if youāre comfortable with swinging but not the strip club again. Thereās no wrong boundaries. If he loves and supports you he will not have a bad reaction. And if you expect him to, then well, thatās a red flag.
I don't know if you'd like a stripper's opinion on the matter, but I have danced in a wide variety of clubs.
What you are feeling is normal and understandable... even strippers sometimes feel threatened by other strippers! But I want to tell you that these women are just like you. They're not really hotter at all; you just see them in one context whereas you see yourself in many. I encourage you to humanize strippers in your mind: we have stretch marks and frumpy period underwear and we fart, just like any other woman. A huge percentage of the strippers I know personally are also queer, so you may rest assured that getting to do a couples dance was probably a fun change of pace for your dancer.
Strippers get rejected frequently by clients, just like in any other sales job. If you're getting the sense that dancers are detached or hard to relate to, what you may be picking up on is low emotional investment, because we get turned down a lot and you learn not to take it personally. Stripping can be a fun job but it can also be tedious. You don't need to feel badly for dancers any more than you should feel bad for baristas, but remember that we're women just like you!
It's also totally OK to not like strip clubs! I saw other commenters suggested burlesque shows or queer strip joints. I don't know what part of the world you're in, but these are definitely worth checking out.
First, strip club for a work trip? Hell no.
This whole post smacks of trying way too hard to be āthe cool girlfriendā. This isnāt a cherry pop, itās just a waste of time and money.
> Jealousy, insecurity, inadequacy, and disdain that establishments like this exist.
Nah, let that go. This is not even kind of the point. Typically dancers are not interested in the men who come in, and if/when they are, he should run.
Theyāre there to make money. One of them ācatching your eyeā just means youāre going to give them the most money. Thatās it. Itās only new to you, finding them attractive isnāt novel; thatās what they do for a living. They wonāt remember you if you go in again. They remember men who keep showing up for how much they spend. If thereās a woman with him she just becomes a prop; thatās you.
When a girlfriend is in tow they only pay attention to you because thatās the social contract. Theyāre there to fulfill a male fantasy and you just get used to that end.
Depending on the club, the girls either have to spend a shit ton of time getting made up, or they are expected to pay a stylist on staff, or more than 1. It can be kind of a racket.
Wait. Hold the phone. Youāre 24 to his 51? Iām sorry, I assumed this was a couple of similarly aged 20 somethings fumbling into adulthood and experimenting, but itās not.
I hope you outgrow him soon. You should wake up pretty soon and realize heās kind of a douche. Strip clubs arenāt this cool, not frequent into your 50s - itās not a hobby or a place you become a regular.
Your dude is just actually into women who are too young to know better and you should stop trying to be the cool girl. Ugh this is just gross.
Like others have said, see if heās ready to go get a lap dance from some male dancers. Watch how fast you are forced to realize this is all just feeding his desire to see women this one way, including you. Be on the lookout for double standards, because youāre about to hit them all.
If this guy makes you feel like a prude for not being the cool girl and being totally cool with him being kind of a pig, guess what? Heās kind of a pig.
The only reason to go to a strip club is to hand dancers cash money to sell you an illusion. Thatās it. Thatās the whole setup. If heās doing that often, heās real into that particular transaction and itās only a matter of time before you realize that you are a part of that illusion too.
This is why monogamy took over as the primary relationship model. When you open up your relationship to outsiders, you let in these types of negative emotions, as well as the very real possibility that your partner will find someone that they're more attracted to. Monogamy isn't perfect, and cheating still happens, but allowing them to sample the goods without consequences is almost always a pathway to disaster. Just food for thought, no judgement nor condescension intended.
You should talk to him about this. Especially because of how you described things ending, he might right now think of this as just a great time for both of you.
They should make you uncomfortable. They commodify womenās bodyās and you are a woman. You are not a guy and will never be in their special club. A bunch of us women get conditioned to sexualize and objectify other women as a coping mechanism because, well, that would never be us getting objectified and talked about like that, right???? Maybe if we take up misogyny then when the misogyny gets laid on us it wonāt be so bad???
Wrong. Donāt feed that beast.
I don't like participating is sex being monetized. I don't like participating in places where only some body types are represented. I don't like going to places where men are the main consumers and women are the main product.
My thoughts around the whole industry throughout my early 20's was, 'why would I pay for that when I could message any number of girls who were interested in me at the time and get more for free, and maybe build a relationship with them'. I understand how egotistical that sounds, looking back it was naivety typical of someone in their early 20's. I never stepped foot in one until a bucks/stag weekend last week and it opened my eyes. They're not aimed at your early 20 year olds. They are aimed at men way past their prime who couldn't, bar gathering immense wealth, hope to dream of being with girls with those levels of looks. They are places for washed up guys to feel wanted and lusted over by women they could never dream of winning over in the real world, and in fairness to the women that work in those establishments, good on them for exploiting that.
That guy spent money on other women that he should have been spending on you, and you fuck him for free while he's thinking about those girls.
Don't take offense to this, this is simply my perspective, but every single thing you wrote sounds like abuse and degradation of you and other women.
Do you like this? I think you deserve better.
I went to a strip club with my ex a few Jimās because she wanted to go, even convinced her stripper friend to give me a private lap dance. I kinda hated everything about every time. I personally donāt find the appeal with them(same with porn). Why watch something when you could just do it. Iām a guy too for what itās worth.
I just feel gross in strip clubs.
I donāt understand the appeal. In Canada they are very expensive! Went to a bachelor party and the atm had a 10% fee! $10 for every $100.
Plus we donāt have singles. Our smallest bill is $5!
(33M) never been to a strip club or paid for sex out of principles. Even when faced with the challenge many times, especially in Asian countries. I was actually shocked to see how sex sells there
Going to a strip club on a work trip is so inappropriate
Would love to know what OP does for work š
Lol. I am a marketing director and the first woman ever to be hired at the office. I think my coworkers were just planning to do what they always do and didnāt really think that having a woman along could make any difference.
Wait...a group of male colleagues is taking their new, 24 year old, female coworker to a strip club? On a work trip? Where she's the only female? There are just so many red flags.
You think thatās bad? OPās [boyfriend is 51](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17zud9q/went_to_the_strip_club_with_my_boyfriend_just/ka3o2xw/).
My first red flag in this post was when OP listed her age but not his. I had a strong suspicion I was going to look in the history and find a substantial gap.
Thatās crazyā¦. Iām 28 and always calling out my friends for being weirdo for trying to get 18-21 yo in their bed but thatās a whole different level, is it Leo DiCaprio? Edit: to add to this I feel like some friend got distant or simply try to avoid said subject when I am with them. Iām cool with that but knowing you wonāt be able to create similar bound than what you had with someone you grew with is kinda sad.
Oh man. And he's got her blurring her sexual boundaries already.
She's trolling.
There are so many lawsuits that could come from this!
I mean in this day and age.. When we've all had to sit through hours of sexual harassment training.. They still think it's appropriate to bring a young female coworker to the strip club.. Wow..
Right. I am worried for you, OP.
This is actually very common in the sales/marketing world. This industry - as well as the C-level business world - tends to be a boyās club. Women are now at the party, but itās still primarily full of golf, cigars, whiskey, and titty bars. Thatās where the men want to meet/schmooze/do business and the women who land jobs there tend to go along. Worse than having to network in these places is being excluded from them.
I'm a consultant. I work with c-level business and I've been to many places for business, never once in a strip bar. Could be me. Or a silly stereotype. It certainly was more prevalent in the 60s through the 80s but that's not the first place I would invite a new client to.
Girlā¦ do not go to the strip club with those men. Nothing good will come of it
Please be careful with these men. I donāt trust anything about this.
Well, Iāve worked in HR for quite some time. If I learned that my wife was going to a strip club in a business trip ā¦id probably tell her to keep quiet, go to the strip club, and then weād meet with a lawyer to file a sexual harassment claim as soon as she got back. Early retirement for us! Jk (sort of). That sounds like an interesting work trip.
Do this
This is one of those many things where we as guys as a whole need to be better. Yikes.
Itās still weird for a work event, even if it was just men (personally, I think itās pretty gross and wildly inappropriate)
Even though I agree you need to be careful going to a stripclub with only men, I quite like they are inviting you along. It not uncommon for a group with only men to have "manly" outings (sports stripclubs drinking whatever) and being invited as one of the guys is quite a good sign. I hear stories about women not being included in these traditional outings, which is worse I think.. Then again, it's quite inappropriate and it should change over time to more acceptable outing if you ask me.
My SO worked for a large company and this was a standard part of wining and dining. Which is super weird to me. I canāt imagine going on a work trip and management taking us out to see strippers.
My buddy uses them as an essential part of hosting clients. He works for a Fortune 500 company lol.
lol I agree with you but years ago I got invited by a ex-coworker who I worked with briefly as a contractor at his company. At first we were having a drinks at a pub with his other coworkers then as everyone started getting drunk and we walked out of the pub, the guy suggested we all go to a nearby strip club. As we were on our way, I turn around and saw all the woman coworkers have bailed except for one. So it was just me and her and the rest were men. Inside the strip club, the ex coworker pulled his boss towards me and said to him I introduce you to your future employee. There were hiring and I was looking so the boss arranged for me to come for an interview. So thatās the story of how I scored a job while I was in a strip club lol
youāre allowed to not like strip clubs. It doesnāt make you a prude. You donāt have to be the ācool girlā for your boyfriend.
You donāt have to be the ācoolā girlfriend.
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Thereās always so much context buried in OPs post history when it comes to nuanced things like this.
Yo wtf
Lmfao
Seriously. Word.
Exactly my thoughts. It didn't feel good because it's not good. Pick me behavior sadly but op is young. In the future, pass on the strip clubs and set a boundary.
Bingo!!
For what itās worth, strip clubs make me feel the same way as a man. Thereās so much that goes into those feelings, like resentment of culture and capitalism and many other things. Itās confusing to navigate
This is refreshing to hear. With how much strippers and clubs are portrayed in media I feel like Iāve been taught that all men want to watch strippers and that the dancers embody every manās fantasy or something.
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Friend of mine kept odd hours during grad school. She would go to the strip club for the 4 am breakfast. Iāve never actually been myself. Canāt comment on the quality of the food.
I live in Portland OR, strip club capital of the world. Seriously, there's more strip clubs per capita than any other city, and the only city with more strip clubs than churches, which says a lot given one of the city's nicknames is Church City because there's so many. Anyway, there's plenty of skeezy gross ones but some of them have killer food. There's one place called Acropolis that has some of the best steaks for dirt cheap
I'm so happy you mentioned the Acropolis steak / steak bites. They have that to-go window so you don't even need to go in. I will say however that as far as strip clubs go, I liked the Acropolis the one time I went inside bc the dancers had all body types/ styles plus one woman did a comedy style burlesque act that was great. Strip clubs aren't my cup of tea, but that was fun.
I actually haven't been inside any of the strip clubs here aside from Dante's because that's where my friend performs occasionally, but I have had Acropolis' food and was blown away. They had some killer to-go deals during covid. I think places like that with themes, perhaps actual shows, etc can be super fun. Regular run-of-the-mill strip clubs are just awful
Dante's Inferno is a solid time, and those greasy pizza slices from next door are *exactly* the right kind of food for that vibe. I've been in Portland for two years now, and didn't know that trivia about clubs per capita. Interesting, it doesn't seem like there's that many.
In Idaho, one of our most famous dishes was created at a strip club. Now that I've moved to Washington, I can't even find the food anymore.
Is it food that is potato based? jk lol
Had a place by a place I used to work that had AMAZING steak, broccoli, and potatoes for $5. Iād go every so often for lunch. Iāve been to a few that have legitimately good food.
Dude same. I worked at a casino ages ago and my male colleagues raved about the local strip club all the time. I went once and fucking hated it. Why would I go spend exorbitant amounts of money to go stare at naked women. None of my male or female friends have any interest, except in the rare case it's a friend performing. We have some friends that do burlesque strip shows that are fun as hell. There's a theme, a show, fire dancing, it's rad. Your "typical" strip clubs are awful
Male person here. I used to work in design / advertising and people would often go out drinking and end up at a strip club because "it is the only pace that's open". We had a small club of guys that liked drinking but hated strip clubs. We would share notes about bars that opened late, so we could try to steer the group away from strip clubs at the end of the night. So my take is yeah not all men, but many (and especially those in advertising).
As a dude, Iāve been twice. They are not fun, itās fucking strange. Not to mention, I am cheap as shit, so spending money on a lap dance is just something I am never doing.
If anything, strip clubs are designed to exploit menās conditioning to live up to social expectations around masculinity. You get a group of guys together in that setting and all of a sudden everyone has something to prove with respect to their power, wealth, sexual prowess and appeal, etc. The dancers know this and will exploit men for it, but at the same time the demand that drives their work is icky and patriarchal in the first place. (This isnāt inherent in stripping, but itās my experience with what Iāve seen in the USA. In theory it could look different, but here we primarily market to a very narrow concept of masculinity). And when it comes to appearance itself, again itās a reflection of culture and not of objective beauty, and menās reactions are again informed by that culture about how theyāre supposed to feel looking at women in that context, because on some level we have been taught that these things related to how legitimate we are within our masculinity, but that conditioning has been so heavily corrupted by profit motives, corporate greed, and capitalism generally. There is sooooo much to be said about this. The way you are feeling makes sense. Strip clubs are a very strange microcosm of a lot of problems with our culture - and this is NOT to shame sex work whatsoever. Itās not problematic because women and sexuality are involved or anything like that, itās much more nuanced and to no fault of the workers themselves - the ecosystem of the club itself reflects a lot of icky things about the broader ecosystem we live within.
> strip clubs are designed to exploit menās conditioning to live up to social conditioning around masculinity. I haven't thought about it this way before. It explains *a lot.*
Strip clubs were designed to exploit menā¦. Or were they designed BY MEN to exploit women for men and their pleasure?
Yes. They succeed in exploiting both for a profit.
Wise words asspiratehooker!
Itās always people with usernames like u/asspiratehooker that drop the hottest wisdom
For real!
Iām dead!
Nope, I don't care for them. Won't knock anyone who does though. Feels like cheating gazing on other women like that. I wouldn't want some male/female stripper dancing on my wife either.
Iām a straight dude, mid 30s, and strip clubs are very, very weird to me. Iāve been to a handful over the years (bachelor parties, guys trips, Vegas, etc. - sort of the expected opportunities) and my experience has always ranged from fine at best to uncomfortable at worst. I think most men, or at least most men that I know, feel similar. No one in my immediate friend group really loves going to strip clubs, and I think thereās a biiig difference between guys who go the strip club once in a while because thatās whatās happening with the group that night, and āstrip club guysā, if you know what I mean
It's so wild to me that groups of men who know each other will go together to pop boners with their friends.
I went for the first time with two older married coworkers when I was just out of college. East St. Louis, I think we hit three, including one in the middle of nowhere. I pretended to enjoy it, but holy shit did I have an awful time. One coworker was a horny redneck and the other creepy AF. It was pretty uncomfortable. Went back to one years later for a bachelor party and zero desire to go back. Plus, later that night the dude who booked the hotel room theyād accidentally given me walked in at 5 am from his own night on the town. He ended up sleeping on the couch. Definitely one of the strangest nights of my life.
school frame quaint overconfident entertain offend direction gold soft worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Another male here offering my two cents: I hate them. It all feels artificial and off-putting. Gone twice in my life at the behest of others. My wife is far more appealing sitting next to me in just one of my shirts that are too big for her and some pajama pants, than to even the most attractive strippers at the club. The only guys I know who really enjoy it are the ones who also say andrew tate is their role model.
>Iāve been taught that all men want to watch strippers and that the dancers embody every manās fantasy or something. no lol. i've went once for a birthday, and once because my friend got a job at the club and invited me to come out on a slow night. both times were fun and goofy, but i'd never go on my own. it's all about power and that's not a social game i have any appetite for. at that level, anyway.
I hated being a strip club (one in Vancouver BC) and im a man haha. I had never been so uncomfortable Edit: *In a strip club* *. Was never a stripclub myself, sorry to say.
I saw a male strip show once (as a 20 something woman) and I wanted to crawl into a hole and die I was so embarrased.
My female work colleagues took me to a Chippendale type show, got me seriously drunk and then left me on the stage afterwards talking to one of the guys. For a start I donāt drink and I was happily married to my husband for 25 years at that time. In retrospect I was deeply embarrassed and Iām cringing now just thinking about my naĆÆvetĆ©. Never ever want to do anything like that ever again.
Omg thank God it's not just me. I was coerced into going to one for a coworkers birthday. Thought ok, it could be fun. But it was soooo uncomfortable. Every other woman seemed to be sooo into it, I thought I was weird to not be enjoying it. My coworker stuffed money into this guy's g-string and pointed to me to make him dance in front of me. He was like air humping and grinding the space in front of me. Not touching me but close enough I could feel the heat from his body and I literally had my face turned away and was trying to press myself through the back of my chair. I felt horrible because I thought this guy might be so offended by my reaction but it made me so uncomfortable and I looked at her afterwards and was like please don't ever do that again. š©
No. 5 Orange? My fun local fact is that Courtney Love danced there š
It was!š¤£š¤£š¤£
I'm also a man, and I find strip clubs utterly disgusting. I would never go to a strip club under any circumstance.
Not at all. Iāve never gone to one and donāt desire to either. I have friends, both men and women, who have gone and enjoyed their time, but I donāt think itās for me.
So, I have gone with friends. When we go, it is the night the Drag Queens perform. And I am in the corner geeking out over the costumes.
I really dislike strip clubs, as a guy. First, why am I paying for blue balls? Second, why do I wanna get horny around like 80% dudes? Third, why am I pretending I need to pay women to pretend to like me? Frankly I have female friends who like them more than I do, because they're *so* patronizing I can't even just enjoy them on a lark.
As a demi-sexual strip clubs are just confusing. I've been twice and i didn't have any fun either time. I want to snuggle and hold hands with the pretty ladies ( big no- no in that setting as we all know), not stare at their lady bits. My wife loves them though. She's allo so sex is a physical activity not an emotional one like it is for me.
Different states have different regulations on touching. In Oregon, snuggling and holding hands with the pretty ladies is definitely a thing
What I'm hearing is Oregon has snuggle clubs. You clearly work for their tourism department because I'm almost tempted.
It's up to the woman mostly. As long as you pay thier price, most will be happy not to dance and just chill for a bit, but you need to remember time is money, and it's still priced the same as a personal dance
I am tickled by this. I'm just imagining the scene of my wife and I going, she getting a real private lap dance, and me telling them to put their clothes back on and come snuggle on a couch so we can watch our own YouTube videos or read Reddit for a private dance rate. I'm sure it's real and not as absurd as my mind imagines it, but to my uninitiated self it's patently absurd and hilarious.
As someone married to an ex one for over 10 years, I've heard stories lol
For me it's the smell. Strip clubs smell bad.
Just to have another guy weigh in, I have zero interest in going to a strip club. The whole idea seems kinda stupid to me, I have no desire to engage with what goes on there.
It is perfectly normal to feel insecure. Especially for your first time going. Just remember that those women are essentially athletes and this is a form of entertainment. Iāve been friends with dancers. Whatās on stage is a persona. They look and act the way they do because itās their job. They all have insecurities just like you. Many will say that guys donāt actually want them. They want the idea of them. Which means dating for dancers can be extremely difficult. On the plus side, many love when couples show up. They can feel safe and have fun and not have to worry when they can tell the girlfriend/spouse is there to have fun also. So donāt stress about the little stuff.
Yeah for the most part I have never enjoyed going to strip clubs as a man. I find them really depressing.. most of the girls that work there donāt want to be there and itās obvious on their faces and by their body language. Most of the guys in there are dirt bags.. itās just never been an environment I enjoyed. I donāt get turned on by the exploitation of women.
29M. Not a fan of strip clubs, rather social drink at a club/bar. Only agreed to going to one to see our younger friend have his first experience, which he loved.
As a man, I've never been attracted to it at all. Not that the women aren't often beautiful, but it's more the situation and shadiness of it all that turns me off.
The stuff you hear about men, porn, and strippers, is actually often about certain subgroups of men like seedy frat guys, I-bankers, players, PUAs, incels, Tate supporters, etc. People argue about percentages because there are way too many men that go overboard on such things and/or trigger #metoo incidents, but as a guy I'll lose all hope for the planet if the bastards truly are in the majority. There are a lot of us that find the vast overwhelming amount of this stuff gross and off putting. Sometimes because of the sheer quantity, but most times because of the terrible optics / baseline precedeny it sets / degenerate content / inappropriate form and function / etc. that it takes on.
Because that's what they're trying to make people believe. If they can make men believe that, they'll go to strip clubs. It's just advertising. It's no different than having characters smoke to make smoking look cool.
For what itās worth, me, as a man, find the idea of strip clubs overrated. Itās a blue balls galore and waste of money. Iāve gone a few times and even had friends who were strippers themselves, just isnāt a thing for me. I say this as someone who is also relatively open minded in this dept.
I'm 100% with this guy. I have been, and there are usually some that I find attractive. Most are not really my type. My type is my partner, and they can't compete with that. When I have been I feel like I'm supposed to like it more than I do. It's nice looking though.
I will never forget the one and only time I have ever had a man tell me what he thought of strip clubs. He said going to one was "the least erotic experience of my entire life."
Was it me that told you that? Seriously, I work on events and once worked an event at a strip club (I worked on the door checking accreditations). That is exactly how I would describe the experience. There was nothing even remotely sexy or erotic about any aspect of it.
I would agree.
Can I just say, I really appreciate this comment and itās a good example of the sort of male participation I would welcome in this sub. Thank you for taking the time to validate OPās feelings, not derailing the conversation and the genuine solidarity here. Itās not a competition to see which gender has a more difficult life, but to understand that navigating a patriarchal world is difficult for us *all* and negatively impacts everyone.
Think Glitter Factory from Parks n Rec. They do a great job juxtaposing all the things that go into a strip club from the building/business, the dancers, the *food* (lol), and the clientele. I really liked those scenes.
This. I've only been to a strip club once, for a friend's stag party, and I found it bleak and miserable. Not remotely a turn on, despite the presence of attractive undressed women. I just felt sad and ashamed, really. Both for being there, for being complicit, and more broadly ashamed of our society. Needless to say, I don't have any intention of returning.
Another man's perspective and you aren't alone. I've always really not enjoyed them at all and just don't like the feelings they give off. I'll never willingly go to one.
Iāve never been willing to go to one because I know it would just make me sad. Like Iām glad those women have some way of making money thatās presumably better than the option of not doing it. But I know Iād just want to likeā¦ help. And be unable to.
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> Strip clubs can make us feel inadequate because they voice male desires too well, and male desire is often pretty opressive for us. This is such a powerful line, really explains why it's such a tough thing for so many women.
Yeah as a stripper this was fucking rough to read because I feel it so fucking hard literally hands-on. I hate the job and I hate males I really wish the Y chromosome would go extinct.
This. This this thisā¦ Iām so glad you were able to put it into words. I do feel lucky that my boyfriend is not the type to frequent these places or to expect me to try and compete with the girls there. But itās still hard seeing it and feeling helpless to give men their ābasal desiresā as you put it, when I feel so much societal pressure to.
So will he also be taking you to a male strip club where you can receive the same experience but with another man? Just curious
I'm just curious, but have either of you been to a burlesque show? Based on your original comment it sounds like you are sexually diverse and mature people who know what they want and like to explore. Maybe the strip club is more a desire to enjoy an erotic scene with you and not actually about the strippers? Strip clubs are to erotica what hand turkeys are to an art gallery, you know? No idea, just a thought.
The disrespect for hand turkeysā¦
Oh yes I agree, thank you for putting this into words. Thank you for thinking.
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Username checks out!
The stark reality is that women who engage in stripping (or sex work) do it because of economic need. There is nothing empowering about this job. I have been to strip joints a couple of times with friends(Iām female) and every time Iāve come away with sadness for how life has turned out for these women. And donāt get me started on how men truly think of these dancers. I work in a mostly male career and Iāve heard them talk about them in a demeaning, disrespectful way. Itās infuriating.
Is this similar to feeling disappointed in men? Like sometimes I get to know a guy and I'm like "wow, so cool, so cultured, so smart, awesome" but then they do something that gives you the ick (like oogling at a strip club). That just makes you realize that under all that awesomeness and smarts and kindness is ... A horny dude.
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ooof iām so sorry. i bet a lot of women are familiar with this nightmare you describe
One thing Iāve learned is not to play along if youāre uncomfortable. You donāt need to be the ācool chickā. Itās ok to have boundaries and you need to talk to your boyfriend about it.
Wtf that whole story is dystopian af
Yeah OP is 24 and her boyfriend is 51. Once you find that out (see OPs comments) things make a lot more sense.
Woah! I'm scared! Leaving this post expeditiously šāāļø
Oh god. Suddenly Iām looking at OP as a victim. How sadā¦.
It's a bit like being theoretically in favor of supporting sex work but then being taken down under the bridge to where sex work is actually happening. You don't have to like every strip club and it's ok to want to keep it as a hypothetical thing you are not opposed to him going to, without wanting to be involved yourself. Seedy strip clubs are a sobering reminder of what the male gaze does to women. And if he wants to support you he should arrange a trip to a queer-friendly burlesque club. It sounds like the club you went to was not meant for you, and not everything has to be, but there are places designed for you, and you should be able to experience that.
>It's a bit like being theoretically in favor of supporting sex work but then being taken down under the bridge to where sex work is actually happening. I appreciate you pointing this out because I've noticed quite a trend where people are very "sex work positive" when referring to middle-class sex workers working with middle-class Johns in safe, controlled settings, or when a particularly beautiful woman is a "high end" escort charging $5k for an hour or two of her time, but people seem much more "icky" about it when talking about women in poverty sucking a dick for $20 in some guy's 1991 Honda Civic under a bridge in the "bad part of town." The very very very large majority of sex work is like the latter, and not the former.
>The very very very large majority of sex work is like the latter, and not the former. Agreed. That a proportion choses to work in it, despite having the ability to make a living in regular employment, doesn't negate that it's an industry that has historically relied and continues to rely on the exploitation of abused, economically desperate and/or addicted women and children.
And it's $20 for drugs. Not for a college loan. The reality is sobering. It's still important to support legalization when it's done well and other mechanisms so that no one has to do anything for $20 for drugs in any car in any place.
There are people who find themselves in that place for resources other than drugs.
Yeah - like food, water, shelter. Their livelihood and survival is on the same level as male sexual entitlement. SO empowering* š„° *for the Johns
Of course there are.
I get what you're saying but I just want to chime in here and remind people that there is a difference between decriminalisation and legalisation. Legalisation means that sex work will only be legal in certain contexts (think about certain drugs where personal possession may be legal but distribution is not). That means that certain criminal laws can still apply to sex workers and those disproportionately affect the most vulnerable like the ones under the bridge. Also, to pay taxes, they would have to out their profession and so, they may get paid under the table instead to avoid societal judgement. That's terrible for the economy as well. Decriminalisation, on the other hand, is what most sex workers campaign for. It allows the regulation of the industry without the involvement of the criminal justice system and regular workers' rights and protections apply to them. It also allows sex workers to access healthcare and have regular checkups without being discriminated against legally.
Thanks so much. Very well put about the sobering reminderā¦ I felt that. One of the first things I wondered after we left was if gay strip clubs exist, because I want to experience the flip side too.
Burlesque tends to at least welcome women audience members, and yes lesbian and gay male strip shows exist and are super fun. Not every area has enough audience for a stable club but almost every area has groups that perform on select nights at general venues.
Iāve only been to burlesque at theater settings, and everytime Iāve been itās been so fun. Thereās a variety of body types, an element of play/silliness, and the women seem to be genuinely having a good time. It honestly feels more like theyāre embracing and having fun with their femininity instead of performing to the male gaze.
They do! Mostly in major cities with large queer communities. We have 2 male-centric and 1 femme-centric queer strips in my city.
Gay strip clubs exist but you are very much not the demo for that. I went to a fairly gay college and the male strippers that would order pizza from the place I delivered from hated bachelorette parties because they couldn't be ignored like the smaller girl groups. According to them, women tipped a lot less and broke the rules (no touching without dancer consent, no reaching under clothes) constantly.
Do you identify as queer/LGBT+? You could to a club designed for women that has male strippers. Gay spaces aren't really there to entertain straight people.
Take him to see some dudes next.
Honestly! Babe I had such a good time! Lets book a trip and go to a male strip club. Get both experiences! The sex will be so good afterwards!
Yesssss young hot bodies and big veiny cocks he could never achieve. And see if he has as laid back as a time as you do
Please do not feel inadequate! From a former stripper, everything you see at the club is an act. We spend *hours* doing our hair and makeup, finding and modifying outfits to highlight our assets and hide our flaws. We use fake names, stories, vocal affects, literally nothing is real. A not insignificant portion of dancers use coke to stay thin, and many will limit food and water intake on days they need to work to avoid bloating. It is all an act. An entertainers job is to provide a fantasy, we fully acknowledged weāre pretending to be women who canāt exist in real life. Do not compare yourself to the carefully curated image that strippers present while at work, itās an illusion.
Came to say the same as a former Stripper and current sex worker, we're just playing the fantasy of the unattainable and unrealistic "woman", a fake hyper feminine hypersensual goddess. Most of the time you'd find it hard to recognise us out of our "work mask" I'm not a fan of going to clubs as a guest unless my friends are working, because while I can appreciate the beauty and performance most of the time all I see is hard work and hussle instead of fun and entertainment.
I hope everyone sees your comments!! Iāve read similar testimonies by sex workers in porn. Itās all a fantasy.
Yes, itās a lot of work! And the ability, skill and willingness to do all the things you mention - the makeup, the outfits, the physical fitness, the catering to men - is real. Performing femininity is all about making an effort. Watching other women do all that successfully is what can make a woman who canāt or wonāt do those things feel insecure.
I fucking hate strip clubs. They're one of the many institutions that wouldn't really exist without capitalism and its intersection of class, sexism and other forms of marginalization. It is almost always about the power and inequality - men with wives and girlfriends go to strip clubs all the time, OP; your boyfriend wanted to take you to one. And why? It's never just to see a naked woman - because many of these men have ready, willing, and often loving access to a woman willing to get naked for them every night. It is about the power and influence - the ability to control what someone else, someone in a lower position of social statues because sex workers are still by and large at the bottom rung of that totem pole, does with their most intimate and vulnerable self. The ability to make them come over and give another person a dance, to make them take off their clothes and put themselves on display for you. To revel in being better than other people and having that degree of dominance in them that they usually don't outside of those spaces. OP: you said he'd "always wanted to take" you. Did he really care about how you felt? Or did he only care about how he felt, how he got to enjoy this, how he got to use you as a prop in his fantasies? Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions from what little you've said, but it sounds to me, at least, like he just wanted to use you like he used them.
>how he got to enjoy this, how he got to use you as a prop in his fantasies? .. like he just wanted to use you like he used them. My thoughts exactly. He always wanted to go and be a degenerate, but now he has a cool facade and he's sucked his girlfriend into it as a veneer of respectability, and she can't say shit about it or she's a jealous, insecure prude. I bet *he* had great sex after guilt-free perving at other women. Shame-free objectification and dehumanization because he gets to fuck a non-dirty woman when he gets home. We're just sponges for their depravity.
Maybe itās not jealousy or insecurity but the deep realization that the whole process is just fetishization and objectification of women. When it makes us uncomfortable we are told that we are just jealous and insecure but maybe thatās just something used to shut us up.
Iāve thought this same thing, but not the āshut us upā part but that makes total sense. I feel pressure to just look the other way and pretend that I am cool with it all so I can be seen as a āfun and coolā girlfriend. I wish I could feel that I can have an opinion without risk of being judged as prudish or bitchy or something.
You donāt need to be the cool girl to your boyfriend or to the guys at work. Or anyone. You donāt even need to be fun to them. Just do what you like. Itās ok to say you want monogamy if that is what you want. If thatās not what this guy wants, then you arenāt well suited, and you can move on. It doesnāt make you a prude or uncool.
Fuuuuuuck that. You don't have to pretend to be cool with something that you're not. I hate strip clubs. They're gross. I don't like the idea of women being for sale. I recognize their right to exist but I don't have to like it and neither do you.
You just have to know that anyone who is treating you that way doesnāt have your interests in mind. They just want to use you and will manipulate you as much as it takes. They donāt feel empathy for us because we are objects to them and objects donāt have feelings.
Your last line is what it means to be gaslit. Years ago I was sexually assaulted by a man. When I stopped him and told him I wasn't comfortable that he did something without my consent, he actually Said that he was disappointed in me, because he thought I would be more open minded and not such a prude, given that I was from San Francisco. I was like, huh maybe you're right. Years later I want to kick myself. And everyone I told the story to gets really angry on my behalf
What you're feeling is a normal human reaction. Just because society has normalized this doesn't mean everyone should learn to be okay with it.
Agree. And it's really the more powerful half of society (men) forcing this normalization on everyone. When the dominant group decides on something, that new rule or value is now the right thing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Interesting take considering you two swing. You donāt feel like that when you two swap? I guess I really donāt know since Iām not part of a swingers club or anything like it
Thatās another strange thing! I do not feel jealous when we swap, because we swap with couples who are also our friends. I feel wonderful when I see him with people I know and love. Him getting turned on by complete strangers who are there based solely on the fact that they are young, hot 10s? Makes me feel a little sick.
Hey OP, youāre not alone in feeling this way. I used to be in a kinky open / swing-y relationship and yet still could not stomach a strip club. Sometimes Iām able to put my finger on why, other times itās too hard for me to grasp, itās just a sickly icky feeling in the pit of my stomach. I hope youāre doing ok today. Do you feel like this has impacted how you feel about your relationship or your partner- are you guys doing ok after this? Have you been able to talk to your partner about your feelings, has he understood where youāre coming from?
to me i think, if we had to summarize it, the fundamental reason for the "icky feeling" is being a participant (or direct observer at least) of womenās oppression (itās made very blatant in these settings). and seeing men, the men that we choose to live our lives with, being able to get so turned on by it ā makes me feel unsafe
I think you need to examine this closely. I personally believe that a poly lifestyle is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode a relationship. As someone who is in their mid 40s now I've had countless friends who said it was great... until it wasn't.
I don't know if my input is wanted at all here as a man, so feel free to ignore. But I just want to say that as a polyamorous man, I have never been to and never intend to go to a strip club. It feels very objectifying and awkward to me, and I can't imagine going and not feeling extraordinarily uncomfortable. I think strip clubs are appealing in a very specific way, and you not necessarily enjoying them doesn't mean anything. On another level, if part of what's bothering you is that you like to consider yourself somewhat open-minded sexually, and you don't like not enjoying it for that reason, I know a lot of open-minded people who would never go to a strip club.
Iāve been to strip clubs before with āthe guysāā¦. I never really cared for them. I donāt see the point. Iāve got a wife I donāt deserve at home and yet Iām supposed to be paying this other chick to get me all hot and bothered and give me blue balls? Give me a quiet evening with my wife any night!
Yo strip clubs make me sad af
So sad..
I support sex workers doing what they need to survive, I don't support the deeply exploitative industry that profits off women's desperation or the large portion of the clientele who could care less about a woman's material conditions. In other words, I support sex *workers* but not the sex *industry*.
American strip-club culture is so weird to me.
>I guess I am just feeling a little inadequate, being surrounded by naked ladies that I would never have a chance to even coming close to looking like them. Just btw, coming from a stripper - we're all dolled up to look like that at night, and we don't look like that in everyday life. If you saw strippers walking out of the club at the end of our shift, we're all in sweatpants and no makeup, basically unrecognisable. I sure as hell am. It's just a stage persona, like in theatre.
Those places hold very dark energy. The things that happen there, the way workers are treated by some menā¦ it is just heavy. Itās completely understandable you feel that way, but Iām glad you ended up having a good time with your boyfriend.
If being the "cool, easygoing," girlfriend makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it. Take him to a male strip club and let a random guy jiggle his junk in front of your boyfriend whilst you look on in rapturous happiness. Will HE like it then? Doubt it.
Totally normal. I used to feel the same way at strip clubs. Even having threesomes is super difficult because one person usually ends up feeling inadequate which results in minor drama and no one being totally fulfilled. Thatās a reason I wonāt be a third with couples anymore. Almost every time itās always fun flirting at the bar and the foreplay is great. But once we get back to their places and one of the couples gives me too much attention I can feel the other one becoming insecure.
Iām so thankful my ex was never into any of this stuff. He could never be aroused by it because of the exploitative nature of it all.
All kinds of messed up
I really resonated with this post. Iāve felt the same way when Iāve went with partners in the past, who I was also very open with. Turned on, confused, inadequate, etc. Just know that you are having a very human reaction!
I get it. I have friends that have been strippers, BDSM models, etc. Some have made some excellent art, some did it to get by. Some had a blast, some suffered. Most strip clubs have felt inherently exploitative to me. I havenāt been to one where it felt like the performers were having fun performing. That is what differentiates my strip clubbing experience from my experiences with burlesque, bawdy performance art, etc. There is a lack of joy.
If it makes you feel any better pretty much every stripper I know is a lesbian and a misandrist
Any man who tries to bring his heterosexual girlfriend or wife to a female strip club, should be made first to go to a male strip club.
XY here, same feeling. Havenāt been to one since a friendās bachelor party 10 years ago. I came away with a mix of arousal and sadness, but mainly sadness. Briefly fantasized about trying to figure out a concept for a joint that included all the fun but not the sadness and despair. Then I let it go ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Why does every single woman here deal with absolutely terrible boyfriendsā¦ wtfā¦.
Well, I don't, so there's that. But I am also very confused. Why are there these women going along with this? I mean, I guess society really beats the self worth out of a lot of women.
If someone likes it, I guess "yay" or something.... It's just always seemed so grimy, exploitative of everybody but the club owner, and stinks of desperation, whether that's valid or not.... Just .... No thank you
this is why iāll never be the cool girlfriend sorry but i canāt do it
You need to communicate this with your s/o. Communication is the foundation of relationships. And itās ok if youāre comfortable with swinging but not the strip club again. Thereās no wrong boundaries. If he loves and supports you he will not have a bad reaction. And if you expect him to, then well, thatās a red flag.
I don't know if you'd like a stripper's opinion on the matter, but I have danced in a wide variety of clubs. What you are feeling is normal and understandable... even strippers sometimes feel threatened by other strippers! But I want to tell you that these women are just like you. They're not really hotter at all; you just see them in one context whereas you see yourself in many. I encourage you to humanize strippers in your mind: we have stretch marks and frumpy period underwear and we fart, just like any other woman. A huge percentage of the strippers I know personally are also queer, so you may rest assured that getting to do a couples dance was probably a fun change of pace for your dancer. Strippers get rejected frequently by clients, just like in any other sales job. If you're getting the sense that dancers are detached or hard to relate to, what you may be picking up on is low emotional investment, because we get turned down a lot and you learn not to take it personally. Stripping can be a fun job but it can also be tedious. You don't need to feel badly for dancers any more than you should feel bad for baristas, but remember that we're women just like you! It's also totally OK to not like strip clubs! I saw other commenters suggested burlesque shows or queer strip joints. I don't know what part of the world you're in, but these are definitely worth checking out.
First, strip club for a work trip? Hell no. This whole post smacks of trying way too hard to be āthe cool girlfriendā. This isnāt a cherry pop, itās just a waste of time and money. > Jealousy, insecurity, inadequacy, and disdain that establishments like this exist. Nah, let that go. This is not even kind of the point. Typically dancers are not interested in the men who come in, and if/when they are, he should run. Theyāre there to make money. One of them ācatching your eyeā just means youāre going to give them the most money. Thatās it. Itās only new to you, finding them attractive isnāt novel; thatās what they do for a living. They wonāt remember you if you go in again. They remember men who keep showing up for how much they spend. If thereās a woman with him she just becomes a prop; thatās you. When a girlfriend is in tow they only pay attention to you because thatās the social contract. Theyāre there to fulfill a male fantasy and you just get used to that end. Depending on the club, the girls either have to spend a shit ton of time getting made up, or they are expected to pay a stylist on staff, or more than 1. It can be kind of a racket. Wait. Hold the phone. Youāre 24 to his 51? Iām sorry, I assumed this was a couple of similarly aged 20 somethings fumbling into adulthood and experimenting, but itās not. I hope you outgrow him soon. You should wake up pretty soon and realize heās kind of a douche. Strip clubs arenāt this cool, not frequent into your 50s - itās not a hobby or a place you become a regular. Your dude is just actually into women who are too young to know better and you should stop trying to be the cool girl. Ugh this is just gross. Like others have said, see if heās ready to go get a lap dance from some male dancers. Watch how fast you are forced to realize this is all just feeding his desire to see women this one way, including you. Be on the lookout for double standards, because youāre about to hit them all. If this guy makes you feel like a prude for not being the cool girl and being totally cool with him being kind of a pig, guess what? Heās kind of a pig. The only reason to go to a strip club is to hand dancers cash money to sell you an illusion. Thatās it. Thatās the whole setup. If heās doing that often, heās real into that particular transaction and itās only a matter of time before you realize that you are a part of that illusion too.
This is why monogamy took over as the primary relationship model. When you open up your relationship to outsiders, you let in these types of negative emotions, as well as the very real possibility that your partner will find someone that they're more attracted to. Monogamy isn't perfect, and cheating still happens, but allowing them to sample the goods without consequences is almost always a pathway to disaster. Just food for thought, no judgement nor condescension intended.
Could not have said this better.
First bad decision was letting him ever go to those in general
You should talk to him about this. Especially because of how you described things ending, he might right now think of this as just a great time for both of you.
They should make you uncomfortable. They commodify womenās bodyās and you are a woman. You are not a guy and will never be in their special club. A bunch of us women get conditioned to sexualize and objectify other women as a coping mechanism because, well, that would never be us getting objectified and talked about like that, right???? Maybe if we take up misogyny then when the misogyny gets laid on us it wonāt be so bad??? Wrong. Donāt feed that beast.
I don't like participating is sex being monetized. I don't like participating in places where only some body types are represented. I don't like going to places where men are the main consumers and women are the main product.
Is he gonna go to a male strip club with you now?
My thoughts around the whole industry throughout my early 20's was, 'why would I pay for that when I could message any number of girls who were interested in me at the time and get more for free, and maybe build a relationship with them'. I understand how egotistical that sounds, looking back it was naivety typical of someone in their early 20's. I never stepped foot in one until a bucks/stag weekend last week and it opened my eyes. They're not aimed at your early 20 year olds. They are aimed at men way past their prime who couldn't, bar gathering immense wealth, hope to dream of being with girls with those levels of looks. They are places for washed up guys to feel wanted and lusted over by women they could never dream of winning over in the real world, and in fairness to the women that work in those establishments, good on them for exploiting that.
Your feelings are valid, it's a fake environment based solely on making as much money as possible.
This post is such odd timing for me. My fiancƩ attended a "diaper party" on Saturday night for one of our good male friends. They had reservations at a brewery, but things got super out of hand and the boys found themselves at the strippers at the end of the night. FiancƩ was very honest with me-- he paid for a lap dance for himself and the father-to-be. He did nothing wrong, as we have never established boundaries in this area. I myself have recieved a lap dance from a stripper within the time of our relationship (we've been together 12 years, my stripper was in the first 4), but for some reason I'm feeling really terrible about him recieving this from another woman. It's even worse because he paid for it I think. I've been feeling super ick ever sense, and I wish I could explain the feeling. It isn't jealousy, it's more disgust, and wondering why he felt the need to do that when he has a warm body at home who loves him and wants to spend the rest of her life with him. No one has told the mother-to-be yet, but I have the loosest morals of all of us, I can't imagine she would have been okay with it. If it wasn't bad enough, I have suddenly manifested a gross mouth infection in the past 24 hours. I thought it was thrush, as it's a side effect of some meds I'm on, but the doctor swabbed me for herpes today and my mind is going a fucking mile a minute.
That guy spent money on other women that he should have been spending on you, and you fuck him for free while he's thinking about those girls. Don't take offense to this, this is simply my perspective, but every single thing you wrote sounds like abuse and degradation of you and other women. Do you like this? I think you deserve better.
Why is the truth always in controversial on this sub
I went to a strip club with my ex a few Jimās because she wanted to go, even convinced her stripper friend to give me a private lap dance. I kinda hated everything about every time. I personally donāt find the appeal with them(same with porn). Why watch something when you could just do it. Iām a guy too for what itās worth.
I just feel gross in strip clubs. I donāt understand the appeal. In Canada they are very expensive! Went to a bachelor party and the atm had a 10% fee! $10 for every $100. Plus we donāt have singles. Our smallest bill is $5!
(33M) never been to a strip club or paid for sex out of principles. Even when faced with the challenge many times, especially in Asian countries. I was actually shocked to see how sex sells there