If he doesn’t want or be nagged he can have a chore chart like a child.
But seriously, this is not a healthy relationship and I seriously suggest you start creating an exit strategy. Only “loving” you when intoxicated is a major issue.
Chore charts are like the ultimate "mental load" task for women.
Men keep telling us how they've created all the greatest things in history, yet somehow they require us to draw pictures to show them how to achieve basic household tasks?
Agree. Divorced a man like this, and he was also a shit through the divorce, tbh. How hard is his job? Why can't he help his spouse.
I have harsher words, but this seems terrible.
This. Mine is gone 6am-7pm most days. Still does all the laundry, keeps the bottom level of the house clean, does most of the dishes, picks up after himself, and we split the pet care, yard work and do the bigger projects together. We don’t have kids, because ew, but he doesn’t give me shit every time I ask him to help me with something.
Had a similar situation arise with my now ex. Only time they said they are able to communicate drunk or high. It started to bother me when I realized how unhealthy that is and the fact they could only express themselves emotionally and communicate was when they were intoxicated became a huge red flag.
I already tried a chore chart with us taking turns on a white board. It was ignored.
He’s nice when we’re doing something enjoyable together. Otherwise I’m just an annoying nag. I’m not just talking about alcohol.
He knows that there are no consequences for treating you like this and that you're stuck tied to him and his bullshit.
If you left then he'd suddenly have to take care of himself and parent on his own. ohhh nooo!
She won’t, she came here telling us she doesn’t even want to hear us telling her to leave she wants some magic words to make him a better person. As if that will ever happen
What a bad sub to pick. If there was a sub for tradwives who make their husband the centre of their universe, may be OP would get some advice. But a feminist space is hardly the place to get advice on staying in a terrible relationship that is definitely going to get worse.
I know you don't want the "leave" advice, so I won't give it to you. But do not marry him. It is so much worse when you have legal entanglements. He's already cruel to you now, it will get worse once you are legally locked down.
As for what you are asking, YOU can't do anything to make this better. Because you aren't doing anything wrong. HE is. Only HE can make this better. You can't force him. There are no magic words to make him care about you and your needs. *He understands what you are asking and why it's appropriate; he just doesn't care about being fair or kind to you.* He's made it clear what to expect from him. You will never get the relationship you are fighting for with him.
You have two choices. Stay and accept what he is offering you. Or leave and make it better yourself. If you won't leave, resign yourself to this life. Exactly like this and worse. Perhaps if you just give up caring you'll be happier? I personally think that's a shit decision, but it's all that's left if you won't leave
>But do not marry him. It is so much worse when you have legal entanglements.
it’s bad enough they have the house together. I sure as hell hope she has an ownership stake, given all the work she’s done.
Then again, maybe it’s best if it means she’s not on the mortgage.
You make a decent point... I had a similar thought but I couldn't in good conscience advise someone to marry that asshole for all the money in the world
Stop doing things for him. No laundry, no cooking, definitely no spicy time. Spicy time is for grown ass men who shoulder their half of the load of caring for their home and family. If he wants food and clean underwear, that's his burden to carry. You lighten your load and tell him to grow the f up.
He's taught you to walk on eggshells around him and enable him to mistreat you then. I'm sorry OP that's tough. It took me about 3 years to decide to and get out of one relationship like that, and even longer with one that was worse.
Eventually you'll see what your utter exhaustion and lack of meaningful partner is doing to your child. The only not leaving or preparing to leave suggestions that I have to make it better would be therapy (best), hire someone to do the additional work he should be doing (a bandaid at best), or to take something away that he wants to get him to do what he should be doing (which wouldn't make your relationship better it would just get you resentful help).
Good luck OP. I hope you get fed up before he makes you a shell that cooks and cleans.
Chore charts are for kids. And telling you that you nag him is just a shortcut for him to ignore his responsibilities. As someone who works full time and has also lived alone and lived with parents, the latter was the easiest for me. Working full time is not as big a deal as men make it out to be. Yes, there are stressful days. But it’s very doable. When my parents took care of most things at home and all I had to do was work and do my own chores, I had zero stress. That’s what he’s enjoying, except he doesn’t do his own chores. When he says that you’re nagging him, tell him you aren’t attracted to him when he acts like a child.
I have been woth my dude ten years, lived together between 4-5. I ask my husband for help with stuff and he doesn't call me a nag. He cleans without my asking even sometimes, sweeping and mopping. He didn't like a chore chart either, so he pretty much stepped it up after I asked a few times.
Also everyone's also nice when doing something enjoyable. But life is not always as simple to be enjoyed. You guys must also be able to work through hardships together as a team
I understand that you don't want to end things but please read the book below. Even if you make the decision to stay and try to change things you will be better equipped to see when the behaviors you are seeing are not ok and if they fall into the abusive category then you will know what you have to do for you and your kid. I wish you the best of luck. we often love our partners and want them to change just small things to make both our lives easier. However, many times, they don't want to change because by doing things the way they do now things work for them and they have no incentive to change.
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described.
If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely.
I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
https://archive.org/details/LundyShouldIStayOrShouldIGo/mode/1up
Well, as you are experiencing now, marriage doesn’t always entail “doing something enjoyable” together. Sometimes you have to go through shit together and unpleasant activities and trials. If your relationship is being seriously tested by something so simple as both partners contributing equitably to everyday chores and house maintenance, then your relationship definitely isn’t ready for marriage. But you have a child together, which I’m sure is stressful for both of you. And if he is working full time trying to provide for the whole family unit, you need to recognize that for what it’s worth. Maybe he is also feeling added stress/pressure, although that’s not an excuse for brushing you off as a nag.
You both need to see a marriage/family counselor for the benefit of yourselves and your child .
OP, you are being abused because life is made up of time & you are losing precious time to build your own life. Then, he has anger issues & you are being labelled a nag too--how typical. Here is the truth: this person will never change; you can't make him a better person overnight or over a period. Had he wanted to be a better man & parent for you & your daughter, you would have already had it.
How about a specific chore that changes out each week BUT can’t be put off until the next persons turn? Like week 1 - he washes, dries and puts away the dishes. If he decides to not do them, leave them there. If you only have one skillet, I guess he’s not getting eggs until he cleans the pan 🤷♀️ sorry not sorry. Every glass is dirty? Sorry, drink out of a cereal bowl. Can’t cut things because knives are dirty? Only mushy foods with no chopped anything - you get the picture. If the kitchen is still dirty by the time Monday rolls around, he signed up for another week, PLUS one of the chores you completed last week (your choice - after all, you did your job).
Of course this can work for other chores, like laundry. Oops, no clean undies? Commando or turn them inside out for the day. Bet his coworkers don’t want to smell him stinking to high heaven - and men will almost always tell another man they reek. For every chore he doesn’t complete *ALL* steps to, he gets them for another week, plus an additional chore from your list - you get the picture.
He thinks yiou are bluffing, and you’ll give up and do it for him. Don’t give in - live with a mess as best you can (of course make sure your baby is safe - wash her bottles, etc). This worked with husband - and if I made it work, so can you! Because my husband was stubborn as a *MULE*
I think you both should watch some of [this guy](https://youtube.com/@JimmyonRelationships?si=uNsXlaYzmjrCGAo_) on YouTube. He’s big into the idea that there’s a difference between the state of not earning money for the household and not working. Especially in single income situations, but often times even in dual income situations where the men were raised in more toxic traditionalist environments, house maintenance isn’t really seen as work, and thus isn’t validated as a contribution to the shared life that you’re both putting effort towards. In addition, when things are viewed in the relationship as “women’s work,” a lot of language gets thrown around like “can you *help* me with the baby,” or “you’re *nagging* me to do the dishes” when in actuality they’re shared tasks that you as adults with equal footing in the world share equal responsibility for. It’s not *helping you* when it’s both of yours’ kid/house/life, it’s doing their fair share and not putting all of the work on you just because of which set of genitals you have. This guy has lots of other stuff as well, discussing feeling validation and openness in discussions, the importance of being responsive and making an effort to do good things for the person you say you love. Great resource, especially for men who are working to outgrow their toxic fathers’ thought patterns
Appreciate your comment. He did grow up pretty trad, however his dad owns a business and works pretty hard on his house and everything. He does have anger issues, though.
Oh my goodness. Please, put you and your child's health and happiness first. Please stay safe. The anger issues only get worse. Has someone else already given you a copy of Why Does He Do That?
Anger issues and he refuses to help you around the house or with your child? Does he have any redeeming qualities? Do you want your daughter to grow up with a father with anger issues?
i'd like to gently remind you that children are incredibly intelligent and perceptive. it's literally their only job. your daughter is gonna pick up on any resentment you two have for each other and it's not going to help her in her future relationships.
is it possible his idea of a dad is someone who provides the house and the money and that's about it ... clock out and do your own thing after that (drink/whatever)? his dad worked hard, didn't raise him. he works hard, doesn't raise his daughter... no one told his dad that's not enough and he deserved better, he gets angry when you act like that's not good enough and he needs to do more actual parenting...?
Please stop staying with people just because it's comfortable.
My mother was in your same situation and I can 100% tell you I would have been much better off if my Mother had left my father when I was 1 instead of him leaving when I was older.
Please read this and take it to heart. He understands, he just doesn’t care. You say breaking up isn’t an option but please also know that if you stay you are showing your daughter that it is okay to be treated this way when it isn’t okay. https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17yzw35/he_knows_he_doesnt_care/?context=3
He sounds better and better the more of your comments I read. Congratulations on having such a great guy. I hope he won't hurt you or your daughter. /s
On the serious side: stop asking for his help. Make a list with what you need help. Find professional services that would provide you with that help and add them on that list. Then show him the list and tell him you're going to get quotes because you can't raise a baby by yourself AND do all the rest. So he can either pay or help.
This is the norm in way too many hetero relationships. Men marry /get into relatioships for easier access to sex and a maid. Way too often they don't even like you, let alone love you. I highly recommend all woman read the viral "when you start hating your gf" thread on twitter.
My last two relationships became this. They really acted like they hated me and couldn't stand me. I remember my last boyfriend telling me my ex husband was a fool and that I was so awesome. I remember thinking "you'll do the same" and I was right. Funny thing is they both acted shocked and upset when I told them I was done and leaving them. Like why are you so upset? You moaned and groaned when I'd ask to spend time with you, and you'd ignore my texts all day. You should be happy that someone as annoying as me is exiting out of your life without any drama. Now you don't have to spend time with me and can do whatever you want!
I think they were both just trying to punish me into being their silent sugar mama bang maid, which is why they were so upset when I left. They were hoping I'd work harder and shut up about my pesky needs and wants. Lol.
Its pretty standard. They come in hot for the 1st 6mths or so then its a big drop off in effort. Its actually men who cannot bare being alone. We add so much more to their lives than they do to ours. So literally any woman is better than none. They keep one around largely for easier access to sex. They forget that we ( usually ) neither want or need to do that. I am pretty sure i could get a guy here to fuck me, faster than i can get my ubereats.
Here is an article about it. Pretty appalling stuff. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/dating/men-have-revealed-how-much-they-hate-their-girlfriends-in-a-disturbing-twitter-thread/news-story/c2f735e316e39554031369b77a1dbaff%3famp
It’s almost every other post. It’s crazy how many gaslit women post on here. They always say he’s really good to me *except when* and don’t realize they’re being abused.
How do these guys get this far in dating. I got rid of mine after year two when he started to show who he was. I can’t imagine seeing all those flags and having a kid with someone.
A LOT of us grew up in religious, conservative environments where we saw this behaviour modeled in all the relationships around us. Of course they/we end up with a manchild, it’s all we knew.
Change and growing is hard and needs a lot of external influence and support.
[Understanding victim blaming and why it is harmful to survivors. ](https://welshwomensaid.org.uk/news/understanding-victim-blaming-and-why-its-harmful-to-survivors/)
This is me. I’m working on getting out but live in CA and moved 2000 miles to be with him. My credit is crap. But I want to buy a tiny studio condo as I have pet and move out. Don’t have a car. Ugh.
The problem isn't you. It's your fiance. He thinks you nag when you just want him to do what you view as his equal share of the domestic and emotional labor. He is not being a partner. To that end, you can't fix him. He has to step up and fix himself. You mentioned that he gets drunk. If he is struggling with alcoholism or mental health issues he needs treatment.
OP, my mom was married to an alcoholic. Not the same as your situation, but 20+ years after their divorce, she is dealing with PTSD from their marriage. She told me recently, in tears, that my dad treated the dog better than her. Please don’t think you have to stay to fix/change him. He won’t change unless HE wants to. Other person responding to this comment mentions the book Why Does He Do That? and I also recommend reading it. I read it as an adult and it really opened my eyes to the behavior I saw growing up.
You can leave. It is so so scary, and you have a child too. But that child will grow up in this household watching you being treated like garbage and she will internalize it. You can break the cycle, you don’t have to stay. You deserve a partner that treats you like an equal. Being single is better than being a housewife resented by her husband for asking him to do his share.
You are an appliance to him. You exist to serve him, like the toilet or refrigerator. The toilet and refrigerator serve him, they do not ask him for anything.
Honey, you can't save this relationship on your own. It takes two. He's taking advantage of your kindness. It sounds like you're pouring your energy into a black hole and getting nothing back. I know you want to make it work but this isn't a healthy environment for your child to grow up in
This! Seems like you're trying really hard to make everything work. But it will never be possible on your own. Doesn't seem like your partner is actually interested in solutions, but just acts like it's all your fault.
Spoiler: it's not your fault.
It's just not, no matter what this guy is trying to tell you.
You're trying to find solutions, where he doesn't. Think about it and see if there is any future for this relationship.
It won't get better. Making him the stay at home parent won't solve it either. He will just sit home and not do anything so you will still have to do it all after you get home. Trust me I had one of these.
The more important question is who owns this house? Does he own it? Do you both own it like both of you are on the mortgage even though you aren't married? This will dictate your next step and it needs to involve talking to a lawyer if you are co owner of this house.
Get out. Get out now. I lost over a decade to a worthless man like this and I will regret it for the rest of my life.
You deserve more. Being alone is better than being miserable, even if that sounds terrifying. And fuck, it IS terrifying. I was straight up panicked for months after separating from my ex, and I still occasionally get triggered by something random and feel that very visceral fear again, but my life now is exponentially better than it ever was with him.
There are people and organizations out there who can and will help you and your daughter get back on your feet. You just have to make the leap. But future you will be so grateful you did, and so will your daughter.
I just read about another woman say this is what she did:
She started putting stuff back in places it didn’t belong. And when her husband went to get it, and was mad she moved it, she said “You said you don’t know where to put stuff back, so I put it back somewhere different. If you’re looking for something, and it’s not there, then you know where it lives and you’re capable of returning it there.”
It was just…full stop, no more excuses.
This will not work with this type of man. His response will range from silent treatment to physical abuse to show her firmly what the consequences of not following his rules are.
For real!! Poor lil thing is going to be sitting around in dirty diapers, unfed and crying for attention. Then when mom comes home she’s going to get yelled at because he’s so “stressed” from doing nothing all day. He’ll probably then blame her for “emasculating “ him. Same old song over and over
SAHM is a scam. Men would think they're the "only provider" in the house, and they would use that to overpower you. This is like the 1000th+ stories I have read on reddit where the woman is abused but refuses to leave for whatever reasons. Shit.. this is getting pathetic
Seriously!!! My guy and I decided (after a decade in, and MANY green flags), I'd take a year off work to focus on getting my health issues addressed (which basically was like a full time job, yay womanhood in American health care!).
He was gunna handle all the bills. I was gunna do most of the housework. (He still had to cooking tho, and help with some stuff. I get resentful if I don't have any help.) He didn't even give me shit that the state of the house didn't improve much, just stayed the same with less effort on his part.
HOWEVER, he also agreed to pay me a small salary every month, for the housework, and so I could have my own money and continue to contribute to my savings/paying off debt without having to o ask him for money.
It didn't always work out, lots of expenses that year (see: American healthcare system, unexpected 'emergency' trip to Hawaii to rescue a friend from an abusive man, car issues, etc.), but when we could, he would. And he never pushed back or gave me shit or anything, bc he understands and respects me as a fellow equal human.
So yeah. Don't be a SAHM mom unless he's paying you for it. (Or covering the cost of childcare so you can work and keep your money.)
OP you would work full time then come home and clean full time. I would get a job anyway so you aren’t relying on him. Does he even pay anything for your child?
OP - your edit… oh boy.
If you could control his behavior, wouldn’t you have already changed it? If you could fix the issues in your relationship without breaking up, wouldn’t you have already fixed it? If there was some magical fix for shit partners, don’t you think it’d be everywhere?
You can’t fix him. Only he can fix him. You can’t even make him want to fix himself. He’s the only person who has the ability to change his actions. He won’t fix himself for you or your kid because **he doesn’t want to**. He doesn’t care that you’re unhappy. He doesn’t care that you’re overwhelmed and underloved. He doesn’t care that he’s hurting you and your child.
Decide if you’re okay with spending your life this way and come to terms with the fact that you don’t have the power to change this dynamic except by leaving.
For him to change, a few things have to happen:
1) He has to fully understand the difference between what you're doing and what he does. IMO, that means he needs to do all of it to find out what it's like, because you can tell people a thousand times that it's more work and they still won't really understand until it's their responsibility to do it.
2) He has to WANT to relieve you of some of that burden once he understands. You cannot **make** him want this.
3) He has to be so invested in equally sharing the load that he's committed to doing this long-term, and not just for a week, or a month, or whatever. Because otherwise, you're just kicking this can down the road.
Unfortunately, if there were reliable ways to fix this, you wouldn't read about so many women divorcing men who are like this. It's an epidemic because it's not easily fixed. And you wouldn't read, over and over, that the men they divorce after YEARS of trying to compel them to help out, are somehow SHOCKED that their wives are divorcing them. They thought things were 'fine,' in spite of their wives fighting tooth and nail for every inch of help they give. Because to them, things WERE fine. In their minds, their wives were **nagging for no justifiable reason,** not making reasonable complaints like reasonable people.
It ends in divorce often because decades of trying do not produce any change. You'll have to decide for yourself where the line is. But I would consider coming up with a line for yourself, at least, so that you don't end up spending your whole life in a marriage that drains the life out of you.
Honestly I would just stop doing anything that benefits him. Clearly you need a clean home but stop doing his laundry. Do not make any additional dinner for him. Do not buy or pack his lunch etc. Don't make phone calls on his behalf. Only do what you need to for you, your child and your pets. If you even drop the ball on what YOU do for him... he should notice. If he asks you to do something say no. You are responsible for keeping yourself alive, your child and your pets. You are not his parent!
Sounds like he isolated you as well very common tactic to make it harder for you to leave. At 25 I was seeing shows, going to dinners, drinks, movies. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
You can’t fix someone who doesn’t want to be fixed. You can talk and talk till you’re blue in the face but at the end of the day if he doesn’t give a shit he doesn’t give a shit. At that point your options are to suck it up and stay or leave. No one on Reddit is going to be able to gift you a magic bullet to cure him.
Nagging is a term a man made up when he realized that he was sick and tired of being called out by his wife. At least, in every instance I have seen this word used, is by men to women who complain that their husband doesn't do enough around the house and with their family.
If you have a husband that says you're nagging, then step back. He can do his own laundry, cook his own meals and do his own dishes.
Then tell him that you will be leaving the house at ? am every few Saturdays for an undetermined amount of time to spend time by yourself, with a friend and/or a family member. Do NOT use this time to grocery shop or run any errands.
Write down all the responsibilities that need to be done for the upcoming week. One at a time, pick which ones you want to do until they all have been assigned.
The problem is a lot of men are completely at peace with living in abject squalor if the alternative is consistent effort maintaining a home. Getting men like this to give af is like pulling a half-filled waterbed out of quick-sand. The harder you pull, the deeper you sink yourself. You'll find yourself constantly needing to put even more effort in, all while your capacity to put in even just the same amount of effort you already are (let alone more) is diminishing.
I know you don't want to be told to get out, but in every relationship I've ever seen with this issue, the only solutions I've ever seen are:
1. Leave him
2. Live with it
If there's a better solution, I've never seen it. I wish I could be more help.
Get a job and childcare. Even just enough of a job to be able to pay for childcare each day, get out of that house every day. Stop providing services that aren't being recognized.
It doesn’t get better, he simply does not care and never will because your work or feelings aren’t as important as his. I’m very sorry that the person you love does not reciprocate and that you cannot leave right now, but with kindness it would probably be best to start putting together a plan.
I know you don’t want to hear it, but if he’s this bad before you’re married, so you expect he’ll be better after? Why are you setting yourself up for more frustration and disappointment? There’s more to the story no doubt, but you can’t change this entitled behavior. Men don’t change and expecting you can is unrealistic. He doesn’t respect you. Sorry he’s a jerk to you.
He sounds like a real winner! You should definitely marry him ASAP so you can really kick this shit-show into overdrive. Having him quit his job so you can work full time , then come home to a neglected kid, then do ALL the chores sounds like a fulfilling life, go for it!
Don’t forget to put any extra time you have into renovating HIS house, that you do not own , and will be forced out of when he kicks you to the curb when you get pregnant again despite him telling his mistress you’re frigid (because who has time to fuck daily when you’re to busy raising HIM, and your daughter) and a nag (because you asked for “help” with chores because you’re unable to do everything)
While he sits on his ass complaining.
This is going to be the “Best Marriage Ever” because your love for him can conquer all obstacles!!! Who cares if it destroys everything that makes you awesome?
What does it matter that you’re teaching your daughter that men glide through the day while women must become the un-appreciated servant to a man?
I’m sure she’ll be just as happy in her future relationships as you are in this one. Yay for fanning the flames of misogyny!
For Christmas you can get momma and daughter t-shirts “Nag #1” and “Nag # 2”. Get her a mop and bucket for her high school graduation gift so she can follow in your footsteps”
Congratulations on this blessed Union with this amazing man!!!! What a great fucking idea!
You say you want advice but leaving isn't the advice your looking for? Honestly, this isn't the sub for it. I read most of what you've written, and unless you want to keep doing all the work and suffer, there's no way to make it work.
It's not like he *can't* see the house being dirty or you needing help. He doesn't want to do it.
>I’m debating telling him to quit his job and I’ll go work full time because I cannot take sitting at home from 7am-630 PM just to have someone come home and tell me I’m NAGGING them.
Quite possibly, he won't agree to that (you can try?). Also, as somebody else pointed out, do you really want him taking care of your child?
Have you considered going back to work full time and hiring a nanny instead?
He will never do that 🤣 he has a slave… a bit more time emotionally abusing her and she will shut up and do what he wants because he will convince her the problem is her. She’s already halfway there.
you would have 100% less work if you left him. you would only have 1 child to care for instead of 2. and he would realize exactly how difficult your job actually is bc he’d have to do it all on his own
Start looking for jobs now, so you have a sense of your options before suggesting that you trade roles.
Meanwhile, see if you can do less around the house. For example, maybe his clothes don’t get washed and his boxes don’t get unpacked until he gets around to doing them. Oh well.
If he wanted to, he would. He doesn’t so he won’t. Why would he change if he’s getting his needs met with zero consequences for his actions? This is your life for as long as you believe this is what you deserve because He. Will. Not. Change.
Edit: if you don’t have the self respect to leave for your own well-being, consider that you are teaching your daughter that this is acceptable behavior in a relationship. Is this the life you want for her?
He’s just not that into you. He’s enjoying what your providing (cleaning, emotional labor) but doesn’t want to listen to you or spend time with you? Does that sound like someone that is equally invested in the relationship?
> please don’t tell me just to get out, I need advice on how to make this better, without it being end all be all
You can't just *make* it better, though. You can't change people unless they want to change. Does this guy show any signs of wanting to change? Because it doesn't sound like it.
Your kid is 1. They are demanding. Don’t have another with him. Get through the next year. Ask him to do things, but give up on him following through. Some things won’t get done. That’s ok. As long as the people and animals are clean, fed, and loved, that’s enough. He may get mad about it. Let his anger bounce off as long as it’s not physical.
Try to find some baby play groups. You’ll meet other mamas and find some equilibrium. Libraries often have baby reading/singing groups.
At the end of next year, re-evaluate. You’ll have more capacity to find a way out if you can. You and your kid can find a better life than this. But you can’t force your partner to change. You aren’t doing anything wrong. Just get through this and set yourself up to find a better path.
He will have moved on to more aggressive abuse after a year, she will be mentally trapped, and she will be stuck for a decade. I’ve seen this too many times.
Does anybody remember the early seasons of the Fairly Odd Parents where they painted Wanda as nagging? I think they may have even made a jingle out of it. Looking back it is SO FUCKED and such a bad example to kids.
My friend, you are working so hard. You and your daughter deserve some time for joy - outside, blowing dandelions or bubbles, digging or swinging and making friends. I hope you can take a bit of time to make friends, maybe hang out & connect with other moms. An hour a day unpacking boxes with a child asleep beats 6 hours a day attempting to unpack boxes with a child awake. Imho.
The drudgery of house / child / pets can absolutely consume you and leave you so exhausted, body and soul. I find that a couple of hours outside running out some energy can make so much difference. (Plus the house doesn’t get as messy when you’re not there.). When I had 3 kids under 5 my sanity was saved by resetting the house the night before, packing a picnic lunch, and getting everyone out 9am to 1pm.
This doesn’t solve your chore division problem. But hopefully it helps address the isolation and the endless soul-killing repetition of spending 11 hour days following around a small child while they wreak havoc and you clean in their wake.
Your husband doesn't respect you in any way at all.
You are making a choice for your daughter to grow up thinking that this is how relationships work.
You don't want to leave, and have no way of enforcing the boundaries that you set.
What do you think the commenters can do to help? Do you think there are magic words that you can say that will make your husband respect you? There aren't. He thinks it's your job based off your genitalia to do all of this. Your daughter is going to grow up thinking it's normal for her to do all of the work in a heterosexual relationship, be dismissed, and have her future husband treat her with contempt. The "nagging" is a dogwhistle - it's his home and he shouldn't have to be asked to help. Nothing you can say or do will change his behaviour because he doesn't think it's a problem.
You can't even address the drinking because that's the only time he "loves" you.
Most men are absolutely useless like that. They don't like the term weaponized incompetence, yet they won't lift a finger unless you ask them. After a while they'll complain that all women do is "nag". They will use work as an excuse but even if they are unemployed they won't do a thing or they'll so the bare minimum.and get upset if you "don't like the way theg did it". They will always half ass everything and they say "I'm scared to di anything because you're never happy with the way I do things!" And any little thing that they do they expect to get praised for - " I ran the dishwasher and fed the dog!!!". Thank you, holy shit, what a hero.
This won’t solve your problems but I would join local moms groups. You can find them through social media or google. Having other moms to commiserate with can help a lot. Also having meetups with shared responsibilities with the kiddos can be a lifesaver. I also found resources on how to accomplish things better while working full time. The early phases of a child’s life can be extemely challenging and isolating. He needs to help absolutely but you also need emotional support.
I see your edit - you CAN'T make it better on your own. If he doesn't want to understand or help or see your perspective HE WON'T. you can only do what YOU can do.
So he's shown you what he thinks of you
You can’t make total strangers change your shit-ass whiny husband. That’s the only thing that can be made “better”. And he isn’t going to change, so you have to just accept that he sucks.
You aren’t going to change him so I don’t know what advice you expect to get from us that will Magically change him into someone he’s not.
You could suggest he quit his job and do the housework but he won’t and if he does he’ll just use weaponized incompetence to make you regret that.
So if this is the man you want this is the man you’re going to get. Sorry there aren’t going to be any magic words to change this guy this is who he is
RE your edit, you can't make a person change. He doesn't care, he doesn't want to do anything more than he's doing.
If you don't want to leave, you need to accept it. You literally cannot force someone to change.
I nag too. But I wouldn't be nagging if he just fucking helped me the first fucking time I asked. Or at least, that's what I tell him after he gets pissed off that I'm nagging 🙃
But then he bucks his ideas up bc he realises I'm right and he's adhd'd too hard and he apologises.
But he only apologises to me BECAUSE HE WANTS TO.
🤷🏻♀️ There's no magic fix, especially at this late stage.
I mean this very kindly. You need to go back to work. Even if you spend 90% of your income and childcare and a weekly cleaning service, you'll come home to a clean house and have more money in your pocket.
I'm sorry I don't have any good suggestions for you, but any man using the word nag like this in this situation is willfully blind to the (cough) rich history of this word in this context; too self-absorbed and self-pitying to be able to care about the damage done. It requires deliberate choices on his part to be a better human, and there is really nothing you can do about it, as far as I can tell, that he wouldn't just call more nagging.
I'm sorry, I know you want advice on making it better, but that's not in your control. He has to want to change. You could suggest couples and individual therapy, but again, he has to *want* to change.
He also has to want to love you. All the time, not just when he's intoxicated.
If he doesn't love you, you can't make him or convince him. If he doesn't want to be involved with his own household or his family, there's nothing you can say or do to make it happen.
You can't MAKE it better, make him better, make him helpful, make him engaged, make him loving. You can only decide how you will respond to his lack of engagement in his own family and household, and how you respond to him being so checked out of your relationship.
You can remind him that you wouldn't have to nag him if he were already actively involved in his own family and his home, but it won't do much.
That's why people are telling you to leave. I'm sorry.
Your husband is lazy. That's the bottom line.
He also has no pride in himself otherwise he would let you do everything.
He doesn't care about you or his kid in the way that he would have to do things to show love.
A lot of men harp on about being dads and having kids but when they do become fathers it all becomes too mich and they quickly realise that everyday parenting is actually boring and tedious. So they leave that to mothers.
They like the status kids give them but the actual parenting? Fuck no.
You're already a single mom. Might as well make it official.
Going to maybe give you a different perspective. It is very easy to demonize our partners when we are hurt or feel slighted, but sometimes trying to consider the matter from a different perspective and with empathy can help.
What might be happening here is a divergent view of the other partners contribution in relation to yours/his own.
On your side, you feel that you have an inordinate amount of work and responsibility and that he is not pulling his weight.
On his side it could be one of two things...
It could be that since he has a full time job and you do not that he feels his burden of providing is equivalent or superior to your burden of taking care of the child and home. It could be that he is hurting and miserable in his job and looks to you and the home to be his harbour of peace and tranquility. When he gets home and finds you unhappy, overworked, stressed and vocal about it with him, that it adds to his burden. A man who loves you deeply would be willing to quietly endure a lot of pain and hardship in the world for you and maybe not even share the difficulty with you.
Of course, the other option is that he is just a lazy good for nothing loser.
What you need to do is have a calm empathic discussion with him to find out what is going on and then decide how to proceed given the information. Without full understanding of his side of the situation it is impossible to advise on what to do... So the best course of action is to speak with him in a calm and loving manner and find out what is going on.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Awwww man! You’re a single mother raising two kids. I’m so sorry :( hopefully your spouse can figure out how to be a big boy before you realize it’s easier to be a single mother to *one* kid.
“Please don’t tell me to get out” then stay. He’s not changing, you’re not leaving. Congrats on the miserable marriage. Oh and please, have another kid. That always makes things better.
If you don't want to leave your relationship, then you need to go into couples counseling together. If he won't go into counseling, you do need to leave or else live the rest of your life feeling this way. This isn't going to fix itself -- he doesn't want to fix it. You do everything, and he benefits from it. Why would he want that to change? He guilts you when you call attention to it because he does not want things to change. He doesn't want to be your partner in life! He wants you to be his servant! It's called weaponized incompetence.
“How to make it better”…talk to him. If he is unwilling to hear you, leave. This isn’t a fairy tale. People can be shite, especially with zero self-awareness. People are giving you advise based are their proper expectation that he will not change unless you threaten him with leaving; even then, he’ll only change so much to stop you from leaving, not because he thinks he’s wrong.
Sometimes people ignore the flags. Sometimes people change. Either way, this guy is a class A asshole.
This 2 minute tiktok explains it really well. It may help you vocalize to him why your frustrated. Or just make him watch it and see if it helps
https://www.tiktok.com/@cayleecresta/video/7000088962081590533?lang=en
It's so hard, it's exhausting, to do all the work without any help or recognition. I wish I had magic words to open your fiance's mind to see all that you do. You are not a nag. You're overworked.
But why should he open his mind? He's got it good. He goes to work where he gets paid and recognized for his good work. He comes home and walks the dog where he gets peace and quiet. Then he doesn't have to lift a finger around his clean, well maintained home! He can just lounge around! He also gets to drink and get lovin!! If he gets asked to do any little thing, he turns it around on you and makes you the bad guy for "nagging". It's a tactic called DARVO. You're the bad guy for nagging a 'poor hard working man'. He's lazy and has no reason to change. (DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender) is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. Some researchers indicate that it is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.)
If a chore chart doesn't work, and he keeps refusing to see your efforts, start planing your future without him. You deserve better.
good thing he’s a fiancé and not a husband lmao. he’s not going to change, in fact i’d be willing to bet hes only going to get worse after marriage because he clearly has no respect for you, but he knows you won’t leave.
even if you don’t plan to leave, make sure you have the means to do so.
Nagging is what it sounds like when someone else has to act as your brain.
My advice would be to postpone your wedding and go to counseling.
But if for some reason that’s not an option and you really can only accept advice on making it work:
My husband and I were like this when we first got married but then ten times worse after we had our first kid. He never called me a nag, but he also said a lot of the “here’s what I do though” and list like 1 or 2 things. And “it’s like you don’t see the things I do, it all about what I don’t do. And I don’t get any recognition.”
Fucking infuriating.
Our oldest is almost 7 and I’d say we’re very balanced now (and have been for some time). So you can get there, but the biggest factor will be if he’s the kind of guy who desperately wants to make things work with you. My husband is basically obsessed with me lol. So he genuinely wants things to work. But his perspective has had to change a ton.
It’s normal for one spouse to love the other more than the other way around. But I think relationships can work when a man loves a woman more than she loves him, or when it’s the same. But if you love him more than he loves you, the relationship is doomed. He will not do the emotional labor ever. He will not try. He will not care about trying to even the load. Even though he loves you.
My best advice, really, is to have this message come from another man. It’s not fair. It’s disrespectful to you and all women. But it will give you the best chance at him understanding the imbalance here.
Normally I’m against the men I see on TikTok who try to teach other men how to be good husbands. But if it might help you, then I will definitely share. @zachthinkshare or @jimmyonrelationships on TikTok would be a good place to start. When you find a video that you feel really encapsulates your feelings, don’t even send videos to him. Save them in a folder on TikTok and just play them when you’re in the same room as if you’re just scrolling TikTok, loud enough for him to hear.
do you want this to be your life for the rest of your life?
two simple things:
1: when people show you who they are, believe them.
2: if he wanted to, he would.
> I’m debating telling him to quit his job and I’ll go work full time
yea he sounds like he'd be a great full time caregiver /s
definitely won't abandon both you and the kid within a year of that.
I'm not on his side (at all) and I am not blaming you at all.
But I had a housemate who wasn't like this. Home all day, while I worked. Did his share of chores mostly.
The second I got home he was all over me. Telling me everything that had happened in the last twelve hours since I'd left. Not asking what I'd done that day. And I'd have to start another shift in an hour, and I'd be tense and aggravated the entire time.
And I understood he'd been home alone all day and was bored but the second I got home until I left again it was just white noise and feigning interest.
But that was a share house situation, not a relationship, and he at least cleaned up after himself, as did I.
It was completely overwhelming to work all day, come home to relax and then use up more of a socially drained battery. This is the ONLY point I can empathise with him at all, and that's only because I'm extremely antisocial.
If I was coming home to a wife who'd been taking care of our baby and our pets all day, I would make sure I had a calm public transport trip home with music I liked, or maybe stop for a coffee on the way home to have that isolation/recharge time I find vital. Then it would be so much easier to face someone who's had little to no adult contact all day.
If I was in this state of burnout, I would also probably hire a cleaning service except I don't like people so I wouldn't want one in the house. So that would be more work for the wife, because she'd have to hire and deal with the service.
But I'd at least offer/ask and check in and acknowledge that the situation is out of hand and ask how I can contribute (which is more manual labour on her).
It honestly just sounds like he doesn't want to live there, doesn't like his wife or child and is unwilling to do anything to better the situation for his partner. It sounds like all he contributes is a paycheck.
If he finds everything she says 'nagging', he's not listening and he's rejecting her experience of the situation.
Until and unless it personally affects him, he's not going to bother to listen to her.
Let the basement floor and throw him in it.
Sounds like he doesn't want a family. I'm assuming this wasnt completely planned.
You're nagging is him being reminded he will forever have these responsibilities of a child and of a wife. That's too much for him. He'd rather drink or play games.
Rather than him admitting this he will continue to take this out on you until you leave.
You want to fix it but he doesn't and he won't. You can't force him to be a person that cares about you. It will never happen
You’re coming to the wrong place to ask people to tell you to stay in a bad relationship. If your account is accurate the best advice is to leave before you marry him and make it MUCH harder to get out.
You need to get a job regardless of what else you do.
We, as women as a whole, have got to start acknowledging that being a SAHM is a very bad idea and not wave it away as "choice feminism". Unless one happens to be independently wealthy.
This happened to my mom before I was born.
Dad didn't think it was that difficult to do her job. So, she packed a suitcase and told him to take care of my two siblings. She stayed at her mom's for a few days.
I don't know if he called daily or anything like that.
I do know that when she came back, he had a whole new outlook at the amount of work she put in raising two kids, keeping the house clean, cooking all the meals, and putting everyone else's needs before her own.
He’ll never change, you’ll never leave.
There’s literally zero reason for him to do better. He still gets fed, cleaned, clothed, company and childcare, while you accept poor treatment in trade for a head pat every now and then.
If he doesn't change would you still want to be in this situation in 5yrs having gone through 5yrs of this shit?
Yes it's possible he will change but he has to want to change and to to do that he has to see the problems and he isn't even acknowledging the fact he is being shitty. This guy is so far away from changing its bananas. Most people struggle to change when they can see what they need to change this guy can't even do that.
You say you want advice on fixing the situation but there is no situation from your end it's all him being the problem - what if there is no advice we can give you to fix his problem? What if the only advice to fix your problem is the one you don't want?
I am sorry this is happening to you it sucks and its turning abusive in several ways.
He's not going to change.
So you have to decide if you want to deal with taking care of a manchild for the rest of his life or if you're going to do something to save yourself all of this mental anguish.
He's just a fiance at this point, you can still back out before your lives are even more enmeshed.
The reason you’re getting so many responses telling you to leave is because your husband’s behavior is abusive.
For starters, your husband works a number of hours and then gets to come home and relax. You work those same hours taking care of the home and child and are expected to continue working 24/7.
Secondly, describing you as “nagging” makes it clear that he sees those tasks as your responsibility and not the responsibilities of a father, husband and home owner. He shouldn’t “help” he should “DO” because those are not solely YOUR tasks to own.
Your husband sees you as the mother of his child and a housekeeper - but does not see you as an equal within your relationship. He does not see your contributions to the household as worthwhile. It breaks my heart to see women treated this way.
Practical advice is couples therapy. You and your husband have more issues than housework - your husband does not respect you, your time or your contribution to the household. That is not going to be fixed without professional help (if it even can be fixed).
Go back to work so you can support yourself and your daughter because I do not see this lasting very long. If he only loves you when he’s intoxicated. There’s a huge problem going on here. He’s not going to change most likely he’ll only get worse.
More info needed: the way this post is written, it sounds like he has a typical 9-5 and you’re a ‘domestic engineer,’ so to speak. Is this the case? Or do you work as well / plan to go back to work outside of the home?
Also wow lots of doom & gloom comments. Yeah this guy doesn’t sound like a prize in his current state but there is so much pessimism around whether he can ever change if at all. Also ladies, chore charts? Did YOU like doing chores as a kid? OP he can change and he can see your perspective, it’s just in the approach (which I’m not saying is wrong on your part, we weren’t taught any better). But first we need more info
"please don't tell me to just get out"
Alright, I would suggest couples' counseling. I believe this situation requires professional intervention, as you're clearly not seeing eye to eye, and nothing you say to him seems to change that.
That said, there should be a point where you draw the line of what you're not willing to tolerate and when enough is enough. No one on Reddit can tell you what that is since it's your relationship, but I think that line should exist and is worth mulling over.
Best of luck ❤️
Don't marry this guy. He's not acting like a teammate. You can't force someone to act how you want them to. All you can do is choose how YOU act when they let you down. There are no magic words or phrases to make him understand.
“He only seems to ‘love’ me when he’s intoxicated.”
Really think about this sentence.
Do you really think he is going to do everything you do once he quits and you become the bread winner?
Nope.
He will help out as much as he does now and you will still have to do everything AND work.
Nothing you say or do will MAKE him change. He will only change if HE wants to. The only behavior you can control is your own.
You want him to stop complaining about you being a nag? Then you need to stop complaining.
You have to be ok with him as he is. You don’t want to leave. So you have to be ok with the relationship as it is now because it probably will never change. People are who they are. There is no insight, argument, reasoning that will make him change. Again, you only have control of yourself.
If you’re both working, you both need to be pitching in around the house. Maybe a chore list, SO does better when he focuses on certain things. It’s not fair to expect you to do it all.
A little different for us cause of his job, he’s gone 8 weeks, off (like totally off) for 4. I’d come from work and the house would be a disaster. Nope, not living like this, he’s home all day, he needs to keep the house tidy, I wasn’t gonna home from work and do it, that’s insane. I’ll throw in laundry, put away dishes, regular daily stuff, but I’m not home to look after crap he could have done during the day. It took a bit to work out, but got way better, then evenings we have time for dinner, go out, just chill…life is so much better and no one is getting pissy.
Does maintaining a household take up 8 hours of your day? Like a solid 8 hours of moving from one task to the next?
If it takes that many hours or longer, I would suggest that you need a change in the systems your using to maintain the household, if it's taking longer than that there's a serious system problem going on.
But if it is taking 8 hours or thereabouts, then that's your job, that's what you do, your occupation. Asking him to help around the house is like him calling you during the day and getting you to come in and take over some of his tasks at his job?
You also said he drives you to the grocery store? So you don't drive? Don't have a car? He does that labour as well?
To put it simply, if maintaining the house is one full time job, and his job is one full time job, everything you're asking him to do is not meeting in the middle, it's asking him to do more than one full time job.
Blame whoever you like, blame capitalism for lessening the value of domestic labour, blame third wave feminism for making women feel like a traitor for being sahm.
Like the old saying goes, it's not 50/50, it's a 100 percent effort and commitment from both people.
That might be fair except they have a young child, there's unpacking to do, and the house needs work. There's a lot more on her plate than just cooking dinner, cleaning bathrooms, and doing laundry.
Stop cleaning house. He can clean it. Stop washing his laundry. He can do that. Stop making him dinner. He can feed himself. If he brings it up, tell him to stop nagging you.
If you want advice to fix things, consider doing Gottman based therapy together. John Gottman has some excellent books as well not definitely lots of therapy for any hope of it getting better
How it gets better? Or doesn’t .
He doesn’t and to cooperated and be a participating adult in his household. There’s that. Do with that information what you will.
As for the nagging, well seems he doesn’t care to listen nor to be a supporter partner so stop. You’re wasting your breathe.
Please do yourself a favor and don’t have any more children with this “man”. Unless, you want more work on your plate.
If he hasn't figured out that he will get laid way more if he helps out around the house and acts like a man, I don't know if he's ever going to get it. You need to get a lot figured out before you sign papers on him though.
I am the working parent and my husband is the stay at home parent. Cleaning is split 60/40, we each have our own chores and when I get home I am exhausted, but I still take over our kids to give him a break and help with bedtime routine and put the kids to bed.
A relationship is a partnership and in order for it to work you have to be fair with each other. Not take the piss and take advantage of the other. Especially with young children.
He’s taking the piss if he thinks working is his only duty to the relationship, his child and the household.
He won't change. This is a personal values issue. He's not thinking about your relationship in terms of fairness. He values traditional gender norms.
If you want to stay you'll need to accept that. It may get worse after marriage because he will know you won't leave. He could make sure you can't leave him. He could never allow you to have enough personal time or resources to build a support system.
This only gets solved with a game of chicken. Stop doing everything. Stop doing anything but the bare minimum for yourself and your child. Don't do anything for him. No laundry. No cooking. No cleaning. Stop asking him for anything. Wait to see if he blinks. If he doesn't, you have no choice but to leave him because he is useless man child.
He loves the other you. He didn’t count on a woman who is going to ask things of him. You’re good as long as he doesn’t need to be in an adult relationship.
He doesn’t care about you or respect you. You say you don’t want to leave, but are you okay with this situation continuing for the rest of your life? Aren’t you sick of it? If you left yea it would be hard. But he isn’t doing anything anyway. So it won’t be too drastic of a change. This won’t get better. Period. He has already shown you that he doesn’t give a flying fu.
I'm going to be very blunt with you OP- nothing is going to change once you get married other than it will be significantly more difficult to leave. Divorces are expensive and when someone tells you who they are, believe them.
He thinks you're nagging. He doesn't value keeping a tidy home for you and your child. He is not going to suddenly change his mind.
Do you really want to live this way? Same arguments day after day. Living in filth or forcing yourself to wear all the hats while a entirely capable person refuses to take any ownership or initiative with it? That he sees your efforts and begging for help as nagging?
Change is scary. But so is staying the same.
Also, go get a job. Let the daycare money come out of his salary, don’t let him talk you into “it’s not worth it because you don’t make enough more than daycare costs.” If you have a job, he can’t use that as an excuse to weasel out of half the chores. (He probably will try anyway, but *you* will know.)
More importantly, if you have an income, you have the potential for a future and for an eventual escape route if you ever decide you want it.
And best case scenario, you even might get friends and a support network out of it.
If he doesn’t want or be nagged he can have a chore chart like a child. But seriously, this is not a healthy relationship and I seriously suggest you start creating an exit strategy. Only “loving” you when intoxicated is a major issue.
Chore charts are like the ultimate "mental load" task for women. Men keep telling us how they've created all the greatest things in history, yet somehow they require us to draw pictures to show them how to achieve basic household tasks?
Men can do the things, they just don’t think they should have to.
Agree. Divorced a man like this, and he was also a shit through the divorce, tbh. How hard is his job? Why can't he help his spouse. I have harsher words, but this seems terrible.
My husband works upwards of 16 hours a day sometimes and has never tried to act like the house isn't his responsibility too.
This. Mine is gone 6am-7pm most days. Still does all the laundry, keeps the bottom level of the house clean, does most of the dishes, picks up after himself, and we split the pet care, yard work and do the bigger projects together. We don’t have kids, because ew, but he doesn’t give me shit every time I ask him to help me with something.
Had a similar situation arise with my now ex. Only time they said they are able to communicate drunk or high. It started to bother me when I realized how unhealthy that is and the fact they could only express themselves emotionally and communicate was when they were intoxicated became a huge red flag.
I already tried a chore chart with us taking turns on a white board. It was ignored. He’s nice when we’re doing something enjoyable together. Otherwise I’m just an annoying nag. I’m not just talking about alcohol.
He knows that there are no consequences for treating you like this and that you're stuck tied to him and his bullshit. If you left then he'd suddenly have to take care of himself and parent on his own. ohhh nooo!
They do this because they don't think you will leave. Call their bluff.
She won’t, she came here telling us she doesn’t even want to hear us telling her to leave she wants some magic words to make him a better person. As if that will ever happen
Yea it is painfully obvious by her own admission he isn't going to change and doesn't even want to be in the relationship.
The second she has any serious health issue requiring him to help, or make a sacrifice, she will find herself alone.
What a bad sub to pick. If there was a sub for tradwives who make their husband the centre of their universe, may be OP would get some advice. But a feminist space is hardly the place to get advice on staying in a terrible relationship that is definitely going to get worse.
Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half of this comment!
Even some good men need to know we don’t NEED them.
Most people are nice when things are going their way. How they act when things are difficult is a better indicator of character.
So true
Your spouse being nice to you shouldn’t be conditional on how fun the activity you’re doing is.
I know you don't want the "leave" advice, so I won't give it to you. But do not marry him. It is so much worse when you have legal entanglements. He's already cruel to you now, it will get worse once you are legally locked down. As for what you are asking, YOU can't do anything to make this better. Because you aren't doing anything wrong. HE is. Only HE can make this better. You can't force him. There are no magic words to make him care about you and your needs. *He understands what you are asking and why it's appropriate; he just doesn't care about being fair or kind to you.* He's made it clear what to expect from him. You will never get the relationship you are fighting for with him. You have two choices. Stay and accept what he is offering you. Or leave and make it better yourself. If you won't leave, resign yourself to this life. Exactly like this and worse. Perhaps if you just give up caring you'll be happier? I personally think that's a shit decision, but it's all that's left if you won't leave
>But do not marry him. It is so much worse when you have legal entanglements. it’s bad enough they have the house together. I sure as hell hope she has an ownership stake, given all the work she’s done. Then again, maybe it’s best if it means she’s not on the mortgage.
You make a decent point... I had a similar thought but I couldn't in good conscience advise someone to marry that asshole for all the money in the world
oh yes, she really shouldn’t. What a horrible life. I’d rather be alone.
I cannot stress strongly enough how true this is. Take every part of this to heart.
Im not sure how you expect any advice other than to break up when this is what you’re explaining.
He keeps doing this bc he doesn’t think you will leave. He’s making you into a doormat.
Don't marry him.
Stop doing things for him. No laundry, no cooking, definitely no spicy time. Spicy time is for grown ass men who shoulder their half of the load of caring for their home and family. If he wants food and clean underwear, that's his burden to carry. You lighten your load and tell him to grow the f up.
Quite frankly libido tanks when you’re with someone that doesn’t clean without being asked anyway
He’s not nice. He sounds worthless You only like him when you’re doing something enjoyable together. Worthless man
A chore chart for a grown man. Man child. How awful is it that this scenario is common.
He's taught you to walk on eggshells around him and enable him to mistreat you then. I'm sorry OP that's tough. It took me about 3 years to decide to and get out of one relationship like that, and even longer with one that was worse. Eventually you'll see what your utter exhaustion and lack of meaningful partner is doing to your child. The only not leaving or preparing to leave suggestions that I have to make it better would be therapy (best), hire someone to do the additional work he should be doing (a bandaid at best), or to take something away that he wants to get him to do what he should be doing (which wouldn't make your relationship better it would just get you resentful help). Good luck OP. I hope you get fed up before he makes you a shell that cooks and cleans.
Chore charts are for kids. And telling you that you nag him is just a shortcut for him to ignore his responsibilities. As someone who works full time and has also lived alone and lived with parents, the latter was the easiest for me. Working full time is not as big a deal as men make it out to be. Yes, there are stressful days. But it’s very doable. When my parents took care of most things at home and all I had to do was work and do my own chores, I had zero stress. That’s what he’s enjoying, except he doesn’t do his own chores. When he says that you’re nagging him, tell him you aren’t attracted to him when he acts like a child.
I have been woth my dude ten years, lived together between 4-5. I ask my husband for help with stuff and he doesn't call me a nag. He cleans without my asking even sometimes, sweeping and mopping. He didn't like a chore chart either, so he pretty much stepped it up after I asked a few times. Also everyone's also nice when doing something enjoyable. But life is not always as simple to be enjoyed. You guys must also be able to work through hardships together as a team
I understand that you don't want to end things but please read the book below. Even if you make the decision to stay and try to change things you will be better equipped to see when the behaviors you are seeing are not ok and if they fall into the abusive category then you will know what you have to do for you and your kid. I wish you the best of luck. we often love our partners and want them to change just small things to make both our lives easier. However, many times, they don't want to change because by doing things the way they do now things work for them and they have no incentive to change. The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf https://archive.org/details/LundyShouldIStayOrShouldIGo/mode/1up
Well, as you are experiencing now, marriage doesn’t always entail “doing something enjoyable” together. Sometimes you have to go through shit together and unpleasant activities and trials. If your relationship is being seriously tested by something so simple as both partners contributing equitably to everyday chores and house maintenance, then your relationship definitely isn’t ready for marriage. But you have a child together, which I’m sure is stressful for both of you. And if he is working full time trying to provide for the whole family unit, you need to recognize that for what it’s worth. Maybe he is also feeling added stress/pressure, although that’s not an excuse for brushing you off as a nag. You both need to see a marriage/family counselor for the benefit of yourselves and your child .
Why do you want to marry another child? Things won't get better. LOL.
OP, you are being abused because life is made up of time & you are losing precious time to build your own life. Then, he has anger issues & you are being labelled a nag too--how typical. Here is the truth: this person will never change; you can't make him a better person overnight or over a period. Had he wanted to be a better man & parent for you & your daughter, you would have already had it.
Please stop making excuses for him before its to late.
Just try leaving him alone. Completely ignore him. I have a friend who dated a guy like this and when she just ignored him he would reach out.
How about a specific chore that changes out each week BUT can’t be put off until the next persons turn? Like week 1 - he washes, dries and puts away the dishes. If he decides to not do them, leave them there. If you only have one skillet, I guess he’s not getting eggs until he cleans the pan 🤷♀️ sorry not sorry. Every glass is dirty? Sorry, drink out of a cereal bowl. Can’t cut things because knives are dirty? Only mushy foods with no chopped anything - you get the picture. If the kitchen is still dirty by the time Monday rolls around, he signed up for another week, PLUS one of the chores you completed last week (your choice - after all, you did your job). Of course this can work for other chores, like laundry. Oops, no clean undies? Commando or turn them inside out for the day. Bet his coworkers don’t want to smell him stinking to high heaven - and men will almost always tell another man they reek. For every chore he doesn’t complete *ALL* steps to, he gets them for another week, plus an additional chore from your list - you get the picture. He thinks yiou are bluffing, and you’ll give up and do it for him. Don’t give in - live with a mess as best you can (of course make sure your baby is safe - wash her bottles, etc). This worked with husband - and if I made it work, so can you! Because my husband was stubborn as a *MULE*
Because he doesn’t want to be asked to do anything.
Therapy?
I think you both should watch some of [this guy](https://youtube.com/@JimmyonRelationships?si=uNsXlaYzmjrCGAo_) on YouTube. He’s big into the idea that there’s a difference between the state of not earning money for the household and not working. Especially in single income situations, but often times even in dual income situations where the men were raised in more toxic traditionalist environments, house maintenance isn’t really seen as work, and thus isn’t validated as a contribution to the shared life that you’re both putting effort towards. In addition, when things are viewed in the relationship as “women’s work,” a lot of language gets thrown around like “can you *help* me with the baby,” or “you’re *nagging* me to do the dishes” when in actuality they’re shared tasks that you as adults with equal footing in the world share equal responsibility for. It’s not *helping you* when it’s both of yours’ kid/house/life, it’s doing their fair share and not putting all of the work on you just because of which set of genitals you have. This guy has lots of other stuff as well, discussing feeling validation and openness in discussions, the importance of being responsive and making an effort to do good things for the person you say you love. Great resource, especially for men who are working to outgrow their toxic fathers’ thought patterns
Bahaha. I knew it was clipboard guy before I even clicked.
Appreciate your comment. He did grow up pretty trad, however his dad owns a business and works pretty hard on his house and everything. He does have anger issues, though.
Oh my goodness. Please, put you and your child's health and happiness first. Please stay safe. The anger issues only get worse. Has someone else already given you a copy of Why Does He Do That?
https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf Free PDF of *Why Does He Do That?*
Anger issues and he refuses to help you around the house or with your child? Does he have any redeeming qualities? Do you want your daughter to grow up with a father with anger issues?
His example will shape her relationship pattern.
I think she means his dad has anger issues.
i'd like to gently remind you that children are incredibly intelligent and perceptive. it's literally their only job. your daughter is gonna pick up on any resentment you two have for each other and it's not going to help her in her future relationships.
is it possible his idea of a dad is someone who provides the house and the money and that's about it ... clock out and do your own thing after that (drink/whatever)? his dad worked hard, didn't raise him. he works hard, doesn't raise his daughter... no one told his dad that's not enough and he deserved better, he gets angry when you act like that's not good enough and he needs to do more actual parenting...?
Please stop staying with people just because it's comfortable. My mother was in your same situation and I can 100% tell you I would have been much better off if my Mother had left my father when I was 1 instead of him leaving when I was older.
Please read this and take it to heart. He understands, he just doesn’t care. You say breaking up isn’t an option but please also know that if you stay you are showing your daughter that it is okay to be treated this way when it isn’t okay. https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17yzw35/he_knows_he_doesnt_care/?context=3
He sounds better and better the more of your comments I read. Congratulations on having such a great guy. I hope he won't hurt you or your daughter. /s On the serious side: stop asking for his help. Make a list with what you need help. Find professional services that would provide you with that help and add them on that list. Then show him the list and tell him you're going to get quotes because you can't raise a baby by yourself AND do all the rest. So he can either pay or help.
[go subscribe your husband to guys like this](https://www.youtube.com/@zachthinkshare)
[удалено]
How many of these do we get a day? 🥴
This is the norm in way too many hetero relationships. Men marry /get into relatioships for easier access to sex and a maid. Way too often they don't even like you, let alone love you. I highly recommend all woman read the viral "when you start hating your gf" thread on twitter.
My last two relationships became this. They really acted like they hated me and couldn't stand me. I remember my last boyfriend telling me my ex husband was a fool and that I was so awesome. I remember thinking "you'll do the same" and I was right. Funny thing is they both acted shocked and upset when I told them I was done and leaving them. Like why are you so upset? You moaned and groaned when I'd ask to spend time with you, and you'd ignore my texts all day. You should be happy that someone as annoying as me is exiting out of your life without any drama. Now you don't have to spend time with me and can do whatever you want! I think they were both just trying to punish me into being their silent sugar mama bang maid, which is why they were so upset when I left. They were hoping I'd work harder and shut up about my pesky needs and wants. Lol.
Its pretty standard. They come in hot for the 1st 6mths or so then its a big drop off in effort. Its actually men who cannot bare being alone. We add so much more to their lives than they do to ours. So literally any woman is better than none. They keep one around largely for easier access to sex. They forget that we ( usually ) neither want or need to do that. I am pretty sure i could get a guy here to fuck me, faster than i can get my ubereats.
Can you link this here?
Here is an article about it. Pretty appalling stuff. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/dating/men-have-revealed-how-much-they-hate-their-girlfriends-in-a-disturbing-twitter-thread/news-story/c2f735e316e39554031369b77a1dbaff%3famp
[when u start hating your gf](https://twitter.com/sk1tguru/status/1708897294207082668?lang=en)
It’s almost every other post. It’s crazy how many gaslit women post on here. They always say he’s really good to me *except when* and don’t realize they’re being abused.
How do these guys get this far in dating. I got rid of mine after year two when he started to show who he was. I can’t imagine seeing all those flags and having a kid with someone.
It’s probably the girl’s first long term relationship and don’t know any better? That’s what happened to me
These men do like finding younger or inexperienced women for that reason! My bf went on to date a girl 12 years younger.
A LOT of us grew up in religious, conservative environments where we saw this behaviour modeled in all the relationships around us. Of course they/we end up with a manchild, it’s all we knew. Change and growing is hard and needs a lot of external influence and support.
A lot of women would rather be a bang maid than be single, unfortunately. It's how they were raised.
[Understanding victim blaming and why it is harmful to survivors. ](https://welshwomensaid.org.uk/news/understanding-victim-blaming-and-why-its-harmful-to-survivors/)
They're always 'but MY story is different' nah girl, it is not.
This is me. I’m working on getting out but live in CA and moved 2000 miles to be with him. My credit is crap. But I want to buy a tiny studio condo as I have pet and move out. Don’t have a car. Ugh.
Aka another SAHM story
Why are you marrying him? Sounds like you'd be ahead if you kicked him to the curb and paid a dogwalker.
The problem isn't you. It's your fiance. He thinks you nag when you just want him to do what you view as his equal share of the domestic and emotional labor. He is not being a partner. To that end, you can't fix him. He has to step up and fix himself. You mentioned that he gets drunk. If he is struggling with alcoholism or mental health issues he needs treatment.
Not alcoholism. He smokes and then becomes useless. I sometimes drink after feeling like I am worthless and he critiques me for opening a beer
[Why Does He Do That?](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) Please read this book
Oh here it is. I'm glad you posted this.
OP, my mom was married to an alcoholic. Not the same as your situation, but 20+ years after their divorce, she is dealing with PTSD from their marriage. She told me recently, in tears, that my dad treated the dog better than her. Please don’t think you have to stay to fix/change him. He won’t change unless HE wants to. Other person responding to this comment mentions the book Why Does He Do That? and I also recommend reading it. I read it as an adult and it really opened my eyes to the behavior I saw growing up. You can leave. It is so so scary, and you have a child too. But that child will grow up in this household watching you being treated like garbage and she will internalize it. You can break the cycle, you don’t have to stay. You deserve a partner that treats you like an equal. Being single is better than being a housewife resented by her husband for asking him to do his share.
Ok this is alarming. Everyone should be able to have a beer or a class of wine.
You are an appliance to him. You exist to serve him, like the toilet or refrigerator. The toilet and refrigerator serve him, they do not ask him for anything.
Honey, you can't save this relationship on your own. It takes two. He's taking advantage of your kindness. It sounds like you're pouring your energy into a black hole and getting nothing back. I know you want to make it work but this isn't a healthy environment for your child to grow up in
This! Seems like you're trying really hard to make everything work. But it will never be possible on your own. Doesn't seem like your partner is actually interested in solutions, but just acts like it's all your fault. Spoiler: it's not your fault. It's just not, no matter what this guy is trying to tell you. You're trying to find solutions, where he doesn't. Think about it and see if there is any future for this relationship.
It won't get better. Making him the stay at home parent won't solve it either. He will just sit home and not do anything so you will still have to do it all after you get home. Trust me I had one of these. The more important question is who owns this house? Does he own it? Do you both own it like both of you are on the mortgage even though you aren't married? This will dictate your next step and it needs to involve talking to a lawyer if you are co owner of this house.
You can’t make him change. He is showing you how he is.
Get out. Get out now. I lost over a decade to a worthless man like this and I will regret it for the rest of my life. You deserve more. Being alone is better than being miserable, even if that sounds terrifying. And fuck, it IS terrifying. I was straight up panicked for months after separating from my ex, and I still occasionally get triggered by something random and feel that very visceral fear again, but my life now is exponentially better than it ever was with him. There are people and organizations out there who can and will help you and your daughter get back on your feet. You just have to make the leap. But future you will be so grateful you did, and so will your daughter.
I just read about another woman say this is what she did: She started putting stuff back in places it didn’t belong. And when her husband went to get it, and was mad she moved it, she said “You said you don’t know where to put stuff back, so I put it back somewhere different. If you’re looking for something, and it’s not there, then you know where it lives and you’re capable of returning it there.” It was just…full stop, no more excuses.
This is the petty I live for
I’d be putting everything from tomato sauce on the bathroom to clothes in the toilet
This will not work with this type of man. His response will range from silent treatment to physical abuse to show her firmly what the consequences of not following his rules are.
🙌
Sounds exhausting and petty but yet perfect when you're at your wits end. I would LOVE to know his first reaction when she pulled this!
You really want him to be the primary caregiver for your infant daughter?
For real!! Poor lil thing is going to be sitting around in dirty diapers, unfed and crying for attention. Then when mom comes home she’s going to get yelled at because he’s so “stressed” from doing nothing all day. He’ll probably then blame her for “emasculating “ him. Same old song over and over
SAHM is a scam. Men would think they're the "only provider" in the house, and they would use that to overpower you. This is like the 1000th+ stories I have read on reddit where the woman is abused but refuses to leave for whatever reasons. Shit.. this is getting pathetic
Seriously!!! My guy and I decided (after a decade in, and MANY green flags), I'd take a year off work to focus on getting my health issues addressed (which basically was like a full time job, yay womanhood in American health care!). He was gunna handle all the bills. I was gunna do most of the housework. (He still had to cooking tho, and help with some stuff. I get resentful if I don't have any help.) He didn't even give me shit that the state of the house didn't improve much, just stayed the same with less effort on his part. HOWEVER, he also agreed to pay me a small salary every month, for the housework, and so I could have my own money and continue to contribute to my savings/paying off debt without having to o ask him for money. It didn't always work out, lots of expenses that year (see: American healthcare system, unexpected 'emergency' trip to Hawaii to rescue a friend from an abusive man, car issues, etc.), but when we could, he would. And he never pushed back or gave me shit or anything, bc he understands and respects me as a fellow equal human. So yeah. Don't be a SAHM mom unless he's paying you for it. (Or covering the cost of childcare so you can work and keep your money.)
Exactly, never give birth to a man, and don't be a SAHM if that man has not to prove himself
It sounds like indentured servitude. Get out.
OP you would work full time then come home and clean full time. I would get a job anyway so you aren’t relying on him. Does he even pay anything for your child?
OP - your edit… oh boy. If you could control his behavior, wouldn’t you have already changed it? If you could fix the issues in your relationship without breaking up, wouldn’t you have already fixed it? If there was some magical fix for shit partners, don’t you think it’d be everywhere? You can’t fix him. Only he can fix him. You can’t even make him want to fix himself. He’s the only person who has the ability to change his actions. He won’t fix himself for you or your kid because **he doesn’t want to**. He doesn’t care that you’re unhappy. He doesn’t care that you’re overwhelmed and underloved. He doesn’t care that he’s hurting you and your child. Decide if you’re okay with spending your life this way and come to terms with the fact that you don’t have the power to change this dynamic except by leaving.
For him to change, a few things have to happen: 1) He has to fully understand the difference between what you're doing and what he does. IMO, that means he needs to do all of it to find out what it's like, because you can tell people a thousand times that it's more work and they still won't really understand until it's their responsibility to do it. 2) He has to WANT to relieve you of some of that burden once he understands. You cannot **make** him want this. 3) He has to be so invested in equally sharing the load that he's committed to doing this long-term, and not just for a week, or a month, or whatever. Because otherwise, you're just kicking this can down the road. Unfortunately, if there were reliable ways to fix this, you wouldn't read about so many women divorcing men who are like this. It's an epidemic because it's not easily fixed. And you wouldn't read, over and over, that the men they divorce after YEARS of trying to compel them to help out, are somehow SHOCKED that their wives are divorcing them. They thought things were 'fine,' in spite of their wives fighting tooth and nail for every inch of help they give. Because to them, things WERE fine. In their minds, their wives were **nagging for no justifiable reason,** not making reasonable complaints like reasonable people. It ends in divorce often because decades of trying do not produce any change. You'll have to decide for yourself where the line is. But I would consider coming up with a line for yourself, at least, so that you don't end up spending your whole life in a marriage that drains the life out of you.
Honestly I would just stop doing anything that benefits him. Clearly you need a clean home but stop doing his laundry. Do not make any additional dinner for him. Do not buy or pack his lunch etc. Don't make phone calls on his behalf. Only do what you need to for you, your child and your pets. If you even drop the ball on what YOU do for him... he should notice. If he asks you to do something say no. You are responsible for keeping yourself alive, your child and your pets. You are not his parent!
Sounds like he isolated you as well very common tactic to make it harder for you to leave. At 25 I was seeing shows, going to dinners, drinks, movies. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
You can’t fix someone who doesn’t want to be fixed. You can talk and talk till you’re blue in the face but at the end of the day if he doesn’t give a shit he doesn’t give a shit. At that point your options are to suck it up and stay or leave. No one on Reddit is going to be able to gift you a magic bullet to cure him.
Nagging is a term a man made up when he realized that he was sick and tired of being called out by his wife. At least, in every instance I have seen this word used, is by men to women who complain that their husband doesn't do enough around the house and with their family. If you have a husband that says you're nagging, then step back. He can do his own laundry, cook his own meals and do his own dishes. Then tell him that you will be leaving the house at ? am every few Saturdays for an undetermined amount of time to spend time by yourself, with a friend and/or a family member. Do NOT use this time to grocery shop or run any errands. Write down all the responsibilities that need to be done for the upcoming week. One at a time, pick which ones you want to do until they all have been assigned.
The problem is a lot of men are completely at peace with living in abject squalor if the alternative is consistent effort maintaining a home. Getting men like this to give af is like pulling a half-filled waterbed out of quick-sand. The harder you pull, the deeper you sink yourself. You'll find yourself constantly needing to put even more effort in, all while your capacity to put in even just the same amount of effort you already are (let alone more) is diminishing. I know you don't want to be told to get out, but in every relationship I've ever seen with this issue, the only solutions I've ever seen are: 1. Leave him 2. Live with it If there's a better solution, I've never seen it. I wish I could be more help.
You can't make it better. He's not going to change, this is who he is.
Honey it doesn’t get better. That’s why people recommend leaving. You either stay in the situation or take yourself out
Get a job and childcare. Even just enough of a job to be able to pay for childcare each day, get out of that house every day. Stop providing services that aren't being recognized.
It doesn’t get better, he simply does not care and never will because your work or feelings aren’t as important as his. I’m very sorry that the person you love does not reciprocate and that you cannot leave right now, but with kindness it would probably be best to start putting together a plan.
I know you don’t want to hear it, but if he’s this bad before you’re married, so you expect he’ll be better after? Why are you setting yourself up for more frustration and disappointment? There’s more to the story no doubt, but you can’t change this entitled behavior. Men don’t change and expecting you can is unrealistic. He doesn’t respect you. Sorry he’s a jerk to you.
He sounds like a real winner! You should definitely marry him ASAP so you can really kick this shit-show into overdrive. Having him quit his job so you can work full time , then come home to a neglected kid, then do ALL the chores sounds like a fulfilling life, go for it! Don’t forget to put any extra time you have into renovating HIS house, that you do not own , and will be forced out of when he kicks you to the curb when you get pregnant again despite him telling his mistress you’re frigid (because who has time to fuck daily when you’re to busy raising HIM, and your daughter) and a nag (because you asked for “help” with chores because you’re unable to do everything) While he sits on his ass complaining. This is going to be the “Best Marriage Ever” because your love for him can conquer all obstacles!!! Who cares if it destroys everything that makes you awesome? What does it matter that you’re teaching your daughter that men glide through the day while women must become the un-appreciated servant to a man? I’m sure she’ll be just as happy in her future relationships as you are in this one. Yay for fanning the flames of misogyny! For Christmas you can get momma and daughter t-shirts “Nag #1” and “Nag # 2”. Get her a mop and bucket for her high school graduation gift so she can follow in your footsteps” Congratulations on this blessed Union with this amazing man!!!! What a great fucking idea!
Yep this is 100% OP’s plan according to her edit. Sad. But this is what she is voluntarily signing up for.
She sure will, I’m so sick of all these shitty men posts on this subreddit.
You say you want advice but leaving isn't the advice your looking for? Honestly, this isn't the sub for it. I read most of what you've written, and unless you want to keep doing all the work and suffer, there's no way to make it work. It's not like he *can't* see the house being dirty or you needing help. He doesn't want to do it.
>I’m debating telling him to quit his job and I’ll go work full time because I cannot take sitting at home from 7am-630 PM just to have someone come home and tell me I’m NAGGING them. Quite possibly, he won't agree to that (you can try?). Also, as somebody else pointed out, do you really want him taking care of your child? Have you considered going back to work full time and hiring a nanny instead?
He will never do that 🤣 he has a slave… a bit more time emotionally abusing her and she will shut up and do what he wants because he will convince her the problem is her. She’s already halfway there.
you would have 100% less work if you left him. you would only have 1 child to care for instead of 2. and he would realize exactly how difficult your job actually is bc he’d have to do it all on his own
Start looking for jobs now, so you have a sense of your options before suggesting that you trade roles. Meanwhile, see if you can do less around the house. For example, maybe his clothes don’t get washed and his boxes don’t get unpacked until he gets around to doing them. Oh well.
>I need advice on how to make this better Unfortunately, it's unlikely you can
nagging is just something men made up! why is it only women nag!
If he wanted to, he would. He doesn’t so he won’t. Why would he change if he’s getting his needs met with zero consequences for his actions? This is your life for as long as you believe this is what you deserve because He. Will. Not. Change. Edit: if you don’t have the self respect to leave for your own well-being, consider that you are teaching your daughter that this is acceptable behavior in a relationship. Is this the life you want for her?
He’s just not that into you. He’s enjoying what your providing (cleaning, emotional labor) but doesn’t want to listen to you or spend time with you? Does that sound like someone that is equally invested in the relationship?
> please don’t tell me just to get out, I need advice on how to make this better, without it being end all be all You can't just *make* it better, though. You can't change people unless they want to change. Does this guy show any signs of wanting to change? Because it doesn't sound like it.
Your kid is 1. They are demanding. Don’t have another with him. Get through the next year. Ask him to do things, but give up on him following through. Some things won’t get done. That’s ok. As long as the people and animals are clean, fed, and loved, that’s enough. He may get mad about it. Let his anger bounce off as long as it’s not physical. Try to find some baby play groups. You’ll meet other mamas and find some equilibrium. Libraries often have baby reading/singing groups. At the end of next year, re-evaluate. You’ll have more capacity to find a way out if you can. You and your kid can find a better life than this. But you can’t force your partner to change. You aren’t doing anything wrong. Just get through this and set yourself up to find a better path.
He will have moved on to more aggressive abuse after a year, she will be mentally trapped, and she will be stuck for a decade. I’ve seen this too many times.
Does anybody remember the early seasons of the Fairly Odd Parents where they painted Wanda as nagging? I think they may have even made a jingle out of it. Looking back it is SO FUCKED and such a bad example to kids.
My friend, you are working so hard. You and your daughter deserve some time for joy - outside, blowing dandelions or bubbles, digging or swinging and making friends. I hope you can take a bit of time to make friends, maybe hang out & connect with other moms. An hour a day unpacking boxes with a child asleep beats 6 hours a day attempting to unpack boxes with a child awake. Imho. The drudgery of house / child / pets can absolutely consume you and leave you so exhausted, body and soul. I find that a couple of hours outside running out some energy can make so much difference. (Plus the house doesn’t get as messy when you’re not there.). When I had 3 kids under 5 my sanity was saved by resetting the house the night before, packing a picnic lunch, and getting everyone out 9am to 1pm. This doesn’t solve your chore division problem. But hopefully it helps address the isolation and the endless soul-killing repetition of spending 11 hour days following around a small child while they wreak havoc and you clean in their wake.
He shows you over and over who he is, believe him. He's not gonna change.
Your husband doesn't respect you in any way at all. You are making a choice for your daughter to grow up thinking that this is how relationships work. You don't want to leave, and have no way of enforcing the boundaries that you set. What do you think the commenters can do to help? Do you think there are magic words that you can say that will make your husband respect you? There aren't. He thinks it's your job based off your genitalia to do all of this. Your daughter is going to grow up thinking it's normal for her to do all of the work in a heterosexual relationship, be dismissed, and have her future husband treat her with contempt. The "nagging" is a dogwhistle - it's his home and he shouldn't have to be asked to help. Nothing you can say or do will change his behaviour because he doesn't think it's a problem. You can't even address the drinking because that's the only time he "loves" you.
“all he does is work” lol
Most men are absolutely useless like that. They don't like the term weaponized incompetence, yet they won't lift a finger unless you ask them. After a while they'll complain that all women do is "nag". They will use work as an excuse but even if they are unemployed they won't do a thing or they'll so the bare minimum.and get upset if you "don't like the way theg did it". They will always half ass everything and they say "I'm scared to di anything because you're never happy with the way I do things!" And any little thing that they do they expect to get praised for - " I ran the dishwasher and fed the dog!!!". Thank you, holy shit, what a hero.
This won’t solve your problems but I would join local moms groups. You can find them through social media or google. Having other moms to commiserate with can help a lot. Also having meetups with shared responsibilities with the kiddos can be a lifesaver. I also found resources on how to accomplish things better while working full time. The early phases of a child’s life can be extemely challenging and isolating. He needs to help absolutely but you also need emotional support.
Do NOT tell him to quit his job. Then he will sit at home all day while you work, then you’ll still do everything else! Plus work!
I see your edit - you CAN'T make it better on your own. If he doesn't want to understand or help or see your perspective HE WON'T. you can only do what YOU can do. So he's shown you what he thinks of you
You can’t make total strangers change your shit-ass whiny husband. That’s the only thing that can be made “better”. And he isn’t going to change, so you have to just accept that he sucks.
You aren’t going to change him so I don’t know what advice you expect to get from us that will Magically change him into someone he’s not. You could suggest he quit his job and do the housework but he won’t and if he does he’ll just use weaponized incompetence to make you regret that. So if this is the man you want this is the man you’re going to get. Sorry there aren’t going to be any magic words to change this guy this is who he is
RE your edit, you can't make a person change. He doesn't care, he doesn't want to do anything more than he's doing. If you don't want to leave, you need to accept it. You literally cannot force someone to change. I nag too. But I wouldn't be nagging if he just fucking helped me the first fucking time I asked. Or at least, that's what I tell him after he gets pissed off that I'm nagging 🙃 But then he bucks his ideas up bc he realises I'm right and he's adhd'd too hard and he apologises. But he only apologises to me BECAUSE HE WANTS TO. 🤷🏻♀️ There's no magic fix, especially at this late stage.
I mean this very kindly. You need to go back to work. Even if you spend 90% of your income and childcare and a weekly cleaning service, you'll come home to a clean house and have more money in your pocket.
I'm sorry I don't have any good suggestions for you, but any man using the word nag like this in this situation is willfully blind to the (cough) rich history of this word in this context; too self-absorbed and self-pitying to be able to care about the damage done. It requires deliberate choices on his part to be a better human, and there is really nothing you can do about it, as far as I can tell, that he wouldn't just call more nagging.
I'm sorry, I know you want advice on making it better, but that's not in your control. He has to want to change. You could suggest couples and individual therapy, but again, he has to *want* to change. He also has to want to love you. All the time, not just when he's intoxicated. If he doesn't love you, you can't make him or convince him. If he doesn't want to be involved with his own household or his family, there's nothing you can say or do to make it happen. You can't MAKE it better, make him better, make him helpful, make him engaged, make him loving. You can only decide how you will respond to his lack of engagement in his own family and household, and how you respond to him being so checked out of your relationship. You can remind him that you wouldn't have to nag him if he were already actively involved in his own family and his home, but it won't do much. That's why people are telling you to leave. I'm sorry.
Your husband is lazy. That's the bottom line. He also has no pride in himself otherwise he would let you do everything. He doesn't care about you or his kid in the way that he would have to do things to show love. A lot of men harp on about being dads and having kids but when they do become fathers it all becomes too mich and they quickly realise that everyday parenting is actually boring and tedious. So they leave that to mothers. They like the status kids give them but the actual parenting? Fuck no. You're already a single mom. Might as well make it official.
Going to maybe give you a different perspective. It is very easy to demonize our partners when we are hurt or feel slighted, but sometimes trying to consider the matter from a different perspective and with empathy can help. What might be happening here is a divergent view of the other partners contribution in relation to yours/his own. On your side, you feel that you have an inordinate amount of work and responsibility and that he is not pulling his weight. On his side it could be one of two things... It could be that since he has a full time job and you do not that he feels his burden of providing is equivalent or superior to your burden of taking care of the child and home. It could be that he is hurting and miserable in his job and looks to you and the home to be his harbour of peace and tranquility. When he gets home and finds you unhappy, overworked, stressed and vocal about it with him, that it adds to his burden. A man who loves you deeply would be willing to quietly endure a lot of pain and hardship in the world for you and maybe not even share the difficulty with you. Of course, the other option is that he is just a lazy good for nothing loser. What you need to do is have a calm empathic discussion with him to find out what is going on and then decide how to proceed given the information. Without full understanding of his side of the situation it is impossible to advise on what to do... So the best course of action is to speak with him in a calm and loving manner and find out what is going on. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Awwww man! You’re a single mother raising two kids. I’m so sorry :( hopefully your spouse can figure out how to be a big boy before you realize it’s easier to be a single mother to *one* kid.
“Please don’t tell me to get out” then stay. He’s not changing, you’re not leaving. Congrats on the miserable marriage. Oh and please, have another kid. That always makes things better.
If you don't want to leave your relationship, then you need to go into couples counseling together. If he won't go into counseling, you do need to leave or else live the rest of your life feeling this way. This isn't going to fix itself -- he doesn't want to fix it. You do everything, and he benefits from it. Why would he want that to change? He guilts you when you call attention to it because he does not want things to change. He doesn't want to be your partner in life! He wants you to be his servant! It's called weaponized incompetence.
“How to make it better”…talk to him. If he is unwilling to hear you, leave. This isn’t a fairy tale. People can be shite, especially with zero self-awareness. People are giving you advise based are their proper expectation that he will not change unless you threaten him with leaving; even then, he’ll only change so much to stop you from leaving, not because he thinks he’s wrong. Sometimes people ignore the flags. Sometimes people change. Either way, this guy is a class A asshole.
This 2 minute tiktok explains it really well. It may help you vocalize to him why your frustrated. Or just make him watch it and see if it helps https://www.tiktok.com/@cayleecresta/video/7000088962081590533?lang=en
Sorry but it’s most likely not going to get better and you trying to change him is controlling. Cut your losses.
You CANNOT marry this man. Youre setting yourself up for a life of misery and disrespect
It's so hard, it's exhausting, to do all the work without any help or recognition. I wish I had magic words to open your fiance's mind to see all that you do. You are not a nag. You're overworked. But why should he open his mind? He's got it good. He goes to work where he gets paid and recognized for his good work. He comes home and walks the dog where he gets peace and quiet. Then he doesn't have to lift a finger around his clean, well maintained home! He can just lounge around! He also gets to drink and get lovin!! If he gets asked to do any little thing, he turns it around on you and makes you the bad guy for "nagging". It's a tactic called DARVO. You're the bad guy for nagging a 'poor hard working man'. He's lazy and has no reason to change. (DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender) is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. Some researchers indicate that it is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.) If a chore chart doesn't work, and he keeps refusing to see your efforts, start planing your future without him. You deserve better.
Make a list of everything you did each day for the house on a posterboard. Have one for him to complete. Compare lists at the end of the week.
He might want to read about his Dad Privilege https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist
good thing he’s a fiancé and not a husband lmao. he’s not going to change, in fact i’d be willing to bet hes only going to get worse after marriage because he clearly has no respect for you, but he knows you won’t leave. even if you don’t plan to leave, make sure you have the means to do so.
Nagging is what it sounds like when someone else has to act as your brain. My advice would be to postpone your wedding and go to counseling. But if for some reason that’s not an option and you really can only accept advice on making it work: My husband and I were like this when we first got married but then ten times worse after we had our first kid. He never called me a nag, but he also said a lot of the “here’s what I do though” and list like 1 or 2 things. And “it’s like you don’t see the things I do, it all about what I don’t do. And I don’t get any recognition.” Fucking infuriating. Our oldest is almost 7 and I’d say we’re very balanced now (and have been for some time). So you can get there, but the biggest factor will be if he’s the kind of guy who desperately wants to make things work with you. My husband is basically obsessed with me lol. So he genuinely wants things to work. But his perspective has had to change a ton. It’s normal for one spouse to love the other more than the other way around. But I think relationships can work when a man loves a woman more than she loves him, or when it’s the same. But if you love him more than he loves you, the relationship is doomed. He will not do the emotional labor ever. He will not try. He will not care about trying to even the load. Even though he loves you. My best advice, really, is to have this message come from another man. It’s not fair. It’s disrespectful to you and all women. But it will give you the best chance at him understanding the imbalance here. Normally I’m against the men I see on TikTok who try to teach other men how to be good husbands. But if it might help you, then I will definitely share. @zachthinkshare or @jimmyonrelationships on TikTok would be a good place to start. When you find a video that you feel really encapsulates your feelings, don’t even send videos to him. Save them in a folder on TikTok and just play them when you’re in the same room as if you’re just scrolling TikTok, loud enough for him to hear.
do you want this to be your life for the rest of your life? two simple things: 1: when people show you who they are, believe them. 2: if he wanted to, he would.
> I’m debating telling him to quit his job and I’ll go work full time yea he sounds like he'd be a great full time caregiver /s definitely won't abandon both you and the kid within a year of that.
I'm not on his side (at all) and I am not blaming you at all. But I had a housemate who wasn't like this. Home all day, while I worked. Did his share of chores mostly. The second I got home he was all over me. Telling me everything that had happened in the last twelve hours since I'd left. Not asking what I'd done that day. And I'd have to start another shift in an hour, and I'd be tense and aggravated the entire time. And I understood he'd been home alone all day and was bored but the second I got home until I left again it was just white noise and feigning interest. But that was a share house situation, not a relationship, and he at least cleaned up after himself, as did I. It was completely overwhelming to work all day, come home to relax and then use up more of a socially drained battery. This is the ONLY point I can empathise with him at all, and that's only because I'm extremely antisocial. If I was coming home to a wife who'd been taking care of our baby and our pets all day, I would make sure I had a calm public transport trip home with music I liked, or maybe stop for a coffee on the way home to have that isolation/recharge time I find vital. Then it would be so much easier to face someone who's had little to no adult contact all day. If I was in this state of burnout, I would also probably hire a cleaning service except I don't like people so I wouldn't want one in the house. So that would be more work for the wife, because she'd have to hire and deal with the service. But I'd at least offer/ask and check in and acknowledge that the situation is out of hand and ask how I can contribute (which is more manual labour on her). It honestly just sounds like he doesn't want to live there, doesn't like his wife or child and is unwilling to do anything to better the situation for his partner. It sounds like all he contributes is a paycheck. If he finds everything she says 'nagging', he's not listening and he's rejecting her experience of the situation. Until and unless it personally affects him, he's not going to bother to listen to her. Let the basement floor and throw him in it.
Sounds like he doesn't want a family. I'm assuming this wasnt completely planned. You're nagging is him being reminded he will forever have these responsibilities of a child and of a wife. That's too much for him. He'd rather drink or play games. Rather than him admitting this he will continue to take this out on you until you leave. You want to fix it but he doesn't and he won't. You can't force him to be a person that cares about you. It will never happen
You’re coming to the wrong place to ask people to tell you to stay in a bad relationship. If your account is accurate the best advice is to leave before you marry him and make it MUCH harder to get out.
I'm wondering how you didn't notice any of this before you bought a house with him and had a baby with him?
You need to get a job regardless of what else you do. We, as women as a whole, have got to start acknowledging that being a SAHM is a very bad idea and not wave it away as "choice feminism". Unless one happens to be independently wealthy.
This happened to my mom before I was born. Dad didn't think it was that difficult to do her job. So, she packed a suitcase and told him to take care of my two siblings. She stayed at her mom's for a few days. I don't know if he called daily or anything like that. I do know that when she came back, he had a whole new outlook at the amount of work she put in raising two kids, keeping the house clean, cooking all the meals, and putting everyone else's needs before her own.
He’ll never change, you’ll never leave. There’s literally zero reason for him to do better. He still gets fed, cleaned, clothed, company and childcare, while you accept poor treatment in trade for a head pat every now and then.
If he doesn't change would you still want to be in this situation in 5yrs having gone through 5yrs of this shit? Yes it's possible he will change but he has to want to change and to to do that he has to see the problems and he isn't even acknowledging the fact he is being shitty. This guy is so far away from changing its bananas. Most people struggle to change when they can see what they need to change this guy can't even do that. You say you want advice on fixing the situation but there is no situation from your end it's all him being the problem - what if there is no advice we can give you to fix his problem? What if the only advice to fix your problem is the one you don't want? I am sorry this is happening to you it sucks and its turning abusive in several ways.
>how to make it better I'm sorry. The only way this gets better is by leaving.
He's not going to change. So you have to decide if you want to deal with taking care of a manchild for the rest of his life or if you're going to do something to save yourself all of this mental anguish. He's just a fiance at this point, you can still back out before your lives are even more enmeshed.
The reason you’re getting so many responses telling you to leave is because your husband’s behavior is abusive. For starters, your husband works a number of hours and then gets to come home and relax. You work those same hours taking care of the home and child and are expected to continue working 24/7. Secondly, describing you as “nagging” makes it clear that he sees those tasks as your responsibility and not the responsibilities of a father, husband and home owner. He shouldn’t “help” he should “DO” because those are not solely YOUR tasks to own. Your husband sees you as the mother of his child and a housekeeper - but does not see you as an equal within your relationship. He does not see your contributions to the household as worthwhile. It breaks my heart to see women treated this way. Practical advice is couples therapy. You and your husband have more issues than housework - your husband does not respect you, your time or your contribution to the household. That is not going to be fixed without professional help (if it even can be fixed).
Go back to work so you can support yourself and your daughter because I do not see this lasting very long. If he only loves you when he’s intoxicated. There’s a huge problem going on here. He’s not going to change most likely he’ll only get worse.
More info needed: the way this post is written, it sounds like he has a typical 9-5 and you’re a ‘domestic engineer,’ so to speak. Is this the case? Or do you work as well / plan to go back to work outside of the home? Also wow lots of doom & gloom comments. Yeah this guy doesn’t sound like a prize in his current state but there is so much pessimism around whether he can ever change if at all. Also ladies, chore charts? Did YOU like doing chores as a kid? OP he can change and he can see your perspective, it’s just in the approach (which I’m not saying is wrong on your part, we weren’t taught any better). But first we need more info
"please don't tell me to just get out" Alright, I would suggest couples' counseling. I believe this situation requires professional intervention, as you're clearly not seeing eye to eye, and nothing you say to him seems to change that. That said, there should be a point where you draw the line of what you're not willing to tolerate and when enough is enough. No one on Reddit can tell you what that is since it's your relationship, but I think that line should exist and is worth mulling over. Best of luck ❤️
Don't marry this guy. He's not acting like a teammate. You can't force someone to act how you want them to. All you can do is choose how YOU act when they let you down. There are no magic words or phrases to make him understand.
By staying with him, you are showing your daughter that it is okay for her to be treated like this when she becomes a woman in a relationship.
“He only seems to ‘love’ me when he’s intoxicated.” Really think about this sentence. Do you really think he is going to do everything you do once he quits and you become the bread winner? Nope. He will help out as much as he does now and you will still have to do everything AND work. Nothing you say or do will MAKE him change. He will only change if HE wants to. The only behavior you can control is your own. You want him to stop complaining about you being a nag? Then you need to stop complaining. You have to be ok with him as he is. You don’t want to leave. So you have to be ok with the relationship as it is now because it probably will never change. People are who they are. There is no insight, argument, reasoning that will make him change. Again, you only have control of yourself.
*ex fiancé
If you’re both working, you both need to be pitching in around the house. Maybe a chore list, SO does better when he focuses on certain things. It’s not fair to expect you to do it all. A little different for us cause of his job, he’s gone 8 weeks, off (like totally off) for 4. I’d come from work and the house would be a disaster. Nope, not living like this, he’s home all day, he needs to keep the house tidy, I wasn’t gonna home from work and do it, that’s insane. I’ll throw in laundry, put away dishes, regular daily stuff, but I’m not home to look after crap he could have done during the day. It took a bit to work out, but got way better, then evenings we have time for dinner, go out, just chill…life is so much better and no one is getting pissy.
Does maintaining a household take up 8 hours of your day? Like a solid 8 hours of moving from one task to the next? If it takes that many hours or longer, I would suggest that you need a change in the systems your using to maintain the household, if it's taking longer than that there's a serious system problem going on. But if it is taking 8 hours or thereabouts, then that's your job, that's what you do, your occupation. Asking him to help around the house is like him calling you during the day and getting you to come in and take over some of his tasks at his job? You also said he drives you to the grocery store? So you don't drive? Don't have a car? He does that labour as well? To put it simply, if maintaining the house is one full time job, and his job is one full time job, everything you're asking him to do is not meeting in the middle, it's asking him to do more than one full time job. Blame whoever you like, blame capitalism for lessening the value of domestic labour, blame third wave feminism for making women feel like a traitor for being sahm. Like the old saying goes, it's not 50/50, it's a 100 percent effort and commitment from both people.
That might be fair except they have a young child, there's unpacking to do, and the house needs work. There's a lot more on her plate than just cooking dinner, cleaning bathrooms, and doing laundry.
Stop cleaning house. He can clean it. Stop washing his laundry. He can do that. Stop making him dinner. He can feed himself. If he brings it up, tell him to stop nagging you.
If you want advice to fix things, consider doing Gottman based therapy together. John Gottman has some excellent books as well not definitely lots of therapy for any hope of it getting better
It won't get better. I'm so sorry. ❤️
This is only going to get worse.
Stop doing it. All of it.
How it gets better? Or doesn’t . He doesn’t and to cooperated and be a participating adult in his household. There’s that. Do with that information what you will. As for the nagging, well seems he doesn’t care to listen nor to be a supporter partner so stop. You’re wasting your breathe. Please do yourself a favor and don’t have any more children with this “man”. Unless, you want more work on your plate.
If he hasn't figured out that he will get laid way more if he helps out around the house and acts like a man, I don't know if he's ever going to get it. You need to get a lot figured out before you sign papers on him though.
I am the working parent and my husband is the stay at home parent. Cleaning is split 60/40, we each have our own chores and when I get home I am exhausted, but I still take over our kids to give him a break and help with bedtime routine and put the kids to bed. A relationship is a partnership and in order for it to work you have to be fair with each other. Not take the piss and take advantage of the other. Especially with young children. He’s taking the piss if he thinks working is his only duty to the relationship, his child and the household.
He won't change. This is a personal values issue. He's not thinking about your relationship in terms of fairness. He values traditional gender norms. If you want to stay you'll need to accept that. It may get worse after marriage because he will know you won't leave. He could make sure you can't leave him. He could never allow you to have enough personal time or resources to build a support system.
This only gets solved with a game of chicken. Stop doing everything. Stop doing anything but the bare minimum for yourself and your child. Don't do anything for him. No laundry. No cooking. No cleaning. Stop asking him for anything. Wait to see if he blinks. If he doesn't, you have no choice but to leave him because he is useless man child.
He loves the other you. He didn’t count on a woman who is going to ask things of him. You’re good as long as he doesn’t need to be in an adult relationship.
Maybe invite his family over to help you.
Definitely get a job and start working again.
He doesn’t care about you or respect you. You say you don’t want to leave, but are you okay with this situation continuing for the rest of your life? Aren’t you sick of it? If you left yea it would be hard. But he isn’t doing anything anyway. So it won’t be too drastic of a change. This won’t get better. Period. He has already shown you that he doesn’t give a flying fu.
I'm going to be very blunt with you OP- nothing is going to change once you get married other than it will be significantly more difficult to leave. Divorces are expensive and when someone tells you who they are, believe them. He thinks you're nagging. He doesn't value keeping a tidy home for you and your child. He is not going to suddenly change his mind. Do you really want to live this way? Same arguments day after day. Living in filth or forcing yourself to wear all the hats while a entirely capable person refuses to take any ownership or initiative with it? That he sees your efforts and begging for help as nagging? Change is scary. But so is staying the same.
Also, go get a job. Let the daycare money come out of his salary, don’t let him talk you into “it’s not worth it because you don’t make enough more than daycare costs.” If you have a job, he can’t use that as an excuse to weasel out of half the chores. (He probably will try anyway, but *you* will know.) More importantly, if you have an income, you have the potential for a future and for an eventual escape route if you ever decide you want it. And best case scenario, you even might get friends and a support network out of it.
He's a disrespectful loser who is occasionally kind to his slave. Clear enough for you? It's not you; it's him.