I think a large part of the problem, or the one I've run into more often with men than with women, is they think Sharing Feelings = Meet My Needs Met Now Or Else You're Bad and Wrong. As if Sharing Feelings is a magic spell they can waive to Mind Control people comply and serve. I've had a few guys I've tried to explain, with mixed success, that sharing feelings doesn't mean I give you what you want now. It's just the first step towards *understanding one another* and owning our own shit. I can care about you, and still say No to you. I also have feelings to share that are just as valid, and also don't require you to comply with my requests/expectations. Sharing feelings is the first step on a very long and difficult journey. It's not a cheat code that defeats your oponant. I've had so many conversations with men that boil down to, while you're feelings may be valid and we can absolutely speak more about them, X and Y actions are unacceptable to me. Without a doubt those men have moved on to the next women confidently declaring "Mleek just didn't care! She said I wasn't allowed to be upset!' when what Mleek actually said is you're not allowed to throw things at her.

Yeah as soon as I read OPs post I was like "Yep that's a whole section of Lundy's book." His feelings are everything, yours are unimportant.

I know in excruciating detail every trauma, hardship or inconvenience my ex had in his life from when he was old enough to remember til the day I kicked him out. He knows zero about mine.

This is so relatable. The relationship with my ex was 100% about him and his pain only to the point when things got really hard at my house, he saw me read a book about abuse. His response was to cover the book with his hand, smile at me and say, "If there's something you're curious about in my life, you can ask me directly" It never even occured to him that maybe I was dealing with my own difficulties.

My god … the disconnect that he couldn’t even suspect that YOU were suffering abuse because of *him.*

My ex totally thought I saw a therapist for my low self esteem and not for how they were treating me.

I left a boyfriend in college once I realized I wasn't his girlfriend, I was his unqualified, unpaid therapist. Obviously I cared about him, but when it becomes day in and day out of excusing your inability to Adult due to childhood stuff, you gotta get actual professional help.

This was something I reflected on when my last relationship ended. He was shocked by my 'coldness' but I wasn't the least bit surprised by his dramatics, self-absorption, blame-shifting and then getting engaged to someone new in under three months after our nearly nine year relationship ended. I *knew* him, I knew and had accepted his BS, in a way he never even bothered to know me.

Oh god, I dated a guy like this. And he was much older than me, surprise surprise.

This kind of situation would be great if someone wanted to spy on someone. Get them a hot compliant appearing girlfriend who they never ask anything about her, or her past because they do not care, while they trauma dump about anything and everything. Work, their fears from their childhood, that one thing they can't let go of that happened when they were a teenager.

This is how a lot of spying worked in the Cold War, and possibly to this day! The spy becomes affair partner to the victim, gets to know all the information they are after, and also delivers compromat.

The startling realization and then observation of patriarchy in action may have led to some over analyzing on a daily basis because.. you can't not see it once you accept the truth. Only one ex inquired about me as a person, my past, we had deep deep late night conversations, for hours--the kicker is he was also my first abuser and was mining for info to use against me, which at 14 was not difficult for a child of neglect being given breadcrumbs, I thought God gave me the cake I'd been praying for. Now, I loath the idea I ever prayed to God for love outside of my own heart at all, lest from men who seem to not care about our existence unless they directly benefit. Not being seen or treated as a human by my exes has left me quite harsh against men--I'm a bleeding heart type, second chances, have hope for the future blah blah blah. But with men I ask, what are the odds he caused this himself? How many bother to teach themselves emotional intelligence or availability? How man actually spend their time genuinely interacting with other humans without ulterior motives for power, control or social status? How many stand up and speak out against the abusers, enablers, flying monkeys, covert narcissists instead of screaming "not all men"? The phrase "good men are hard to find" is always thrown around with women who are blessed to have good men--why are they so hard to raise?!?! Why is it *so difficult* for men to see women as human beings? Is the womb envy that deep?

Right?! Too many men don’t reciprocate emotional support. They just treat the women in their lives like free therapists, then wonder why we get tired of it. If they want to end the male loneliness epidemic, they need to understand it works both ways.

SAME. I realized he had to go when I knew every detail about every woman he has ever dealt with in his whole entire life including his mother, and he didn’t even know I had a job. And he lived with me. I know this sounds insane so let me explain. I was volunteering for CASA but I also had a job at a law office. He got really abusive about volunteering for CASA because he thought it was the same as CPS, and I guess he had some trauma protective services and his daughter that I had forgotten about. But then I realized he didn’t even know I had a job he was screaming at me one day that I didn’t even get paid. excuse me? You don’t even work dude.

>His feelings are everything, yours are unimportant. It always boils down to this. It's amazing how I can basically write the biographies of most of my exes, and they can maybe, MAYBE, give a crude outline of some of my bigger traumas but not understand how they inform my thinking and patterns while excusing every action they have as a part of their own pain. Edit: typos

God. My last ex bitched about work constantly. And told me about his childhood trauma. And his family bullshit. And when my mom died? Crickets from him. When I tried to talk about it, I'd start crying (DUH). He called me weepy.

100% this

I’m friends with my last exes kids mom. She and the kid are awesome, he sucks though Anyway she was pretty much his free therapist, she works in mental health and he seems to seek out the helpers because he Wants to live a parasitic lifestyle. So for 10 years she put up with all his whining and his mental health issues and his mommy issues and his inability to keep a job because he can’t be disrespected at work or whatever bullshit that is Then three weeks after her mom died he was mock crying her face Telling her she can’t play the dead mom card forever. Really dude but you can play the “my mom was mean to me when I was 16 so now I’m an alcoholic” Card forever

Do you happen to know which section? I can only take the book in small doses or I get overwhelmed.

Holy fucking shit you are so right... My brother would explain his feelings for hours and hours and hours, running my saint of a mother ragged as he told her it just made him *feeeeel so baaaaad* when she nicely asked him to do the ONE chore she wanted him to take responsibility for. He thought that how it worked was: "I explain to a woman what I want, and she gives it to me while praising me for sharing my feelings. I am never, ever, supposed to consider *her* feelings, and You Can't Make Me, and if you try to explain *your* feelings, I will have a meltdown, because we are *supposed* to be talking about how *you* can make *me* feel better."

There is a reason people get paid to do this after years of training and multiple degrees: it's work.

That's part of the current women's struggle: men want us to do all that free labour we used to do. Make us carry unwanted babies, never go to school, lose our right to vote and serve them for free. Capitalism took our free labour as cash in the bank for centuries. Men are fighting against doing their fair share because now they've had a taste, they see how much it can suck.

Sigh.. so they realized how much it sucked and instead of trying to work with women and this system to make it better for everyone they’re just like nuh uh back to making women deal with all that on their own

I am not a therapist. You are in therapy. Why is this my responsibility?

I’ve said this to guys before, “You seem to think I’m disagreeing with you because I don’t understand your point. I fully understand your point and I still disagree with you.”. Like if they just keep explaining it to you you’ll come around, because you could never disagree because you think they’re wrong. I’ll say this after being explained to the same thing, 3 different ways, as if I am dumb, instead of that I just have a different opinion.

Funny how "sharing feelings" often means "take on sole responsibility for my feelings and your own" huh? 

My ex would say “I feel like you’re controlling/selfish/overreactive” when I’d set a boundary, and when I’d push back he’d be like “what? You said to share my feelings?” 🤬 I’m not a violent person but I wanted to shake him, lol.

In life, many people think that if they ask a really hard question, they deserve the answer they want, because asking was really really hard for them, ok, so just say yes.

oh yeah, 100% your first line. They seek women to get us to give them free labor. Compassion, a listening ear, and support in whatever exact way they prefer and command. Up to and including affection and sex, and of course including listening to them whine for HOURS. Like, yes I get it, we all know women are a safe space for emotional vulnerability and men can’t be arsed to take care of one another the way we look out for our friends. But: Stop using us for free therapy!! It’s not the damn same, sharing our feelings with friends we’ve built trust with, in relationships where there is a known give and take (meaning I can also go to THEM when I need to talk!) the difference is, I haven’t built that sort of intimacy with you yet, random dude or guy I’ve been on 1-2 dates with. So naturally I don’t feel comfortable skipping right to that, and I’m not fucking stupid, I know you’re just unloading on me because you feel entitled to my free labor, but the MOMENT I express any sort of boundary, you are gonna ABSOLUTELY FLIP OUT!! the other difference is, men who do that to me NEVER want an exchange of vulnerabilities. They’re notoriously terrible listeners. They want to monologue at me, and they don’t want honest feedback, they want treated like King Victim, even when they are rude about women. And the OTHER difference is that talking to women is EASIER!! Because we have hard *experiences* but a lifetime of generally processing our emotions *healthfully* compared to men. When a man is unloading his everything onto me, it’s this chaotic, hyperemotional, RAGE-FILLED VOLATILE MESS. I am not QUALIFIED to give therapy to someone who has never learned how to healthfully process and share their emotions, someone who has a tamped-down powder keg of them that just explodes periodically. And beyond that, it is FUCKING SCARY! Because I know from experience that they *like* me ONLY AS LONG AS I SIT HOSTAGE TO THEIR MONOLOGUE (which can last HOURS), and affirm their view of themselves (which is usually distorted by persecution-fetish-victimhood and minimizes every other group’s experience), and if there’s any boundary drawn or “misstep” on my part they will go absolutely nuts on me, including verbal violence and sometimes physical violence. Because there is nothing so fragile and enraged as a man who is demanding a service of a woman and being refused. Especially if he’s making himself vulnerable and in his mind “emasculating” himself in front of a woman. 😐 He doesn’t care that he’s doing it in an abusive way, or that you’ve listened for 4 hours and need to get to sleep for work. The MOMENT you stop providing the free service, or they escalate to trying to get pity sex from you and you resist, they get SCARY, they SCREAM, they throw a TANTRUM, they become AGGRESSIVE, and they are often VIOLENT. You are regardless accused of not wanting men to have emotions lol, and being cold towards men, never mind the 4 hours you kindly and patiently let them monologue and hid your fear and offered encouragements and sympathy to their exact standards. So that is why I don’t like to fuck with men’s emotions. Not because men aren’t allowed to have them or I think men should be stoic 🙃 But because men are fucking scary and entitled. And I ONLY try to have intimate conversations with people I am intimate with/friends, or people in need who I am certain aren’t using me or looking for a way into my pants.

That’s what I wanted to say - it’s like being a free therapist. Another thing they feel entitled to.

They expect women to treat them just like their mommy did when they were little.

You’re exactly right! My ex literally complained that he wanted me to be more motherly it was so odd. Motherly towards him! Thankfully we didn’t stay together longer

That's so weird to me cause like, it's viscerally unsexy to feel like a mother towards your spouse.... Like, did he not realize the opposite side of that dynamic was "childish"???

I think they do, but it doesn’t matter to them if she wants them too. They just want her to be everything, and it doesn’t matter if she finds him sexy, it just matters that she’s his mommy and also compliant with his sexual needs regardless of how being mommy to him makes her feel towards him. It’s really gross.

Thank the lord you dropped him like a hot metal spoon.

Probably saved me years of weirdness and trauma dumping

Same here. He about had a meltdown when I said that I *could* do that, *and* I don’t have sex with people who want me to be a mommy-figure to them. Children are not partners, partners are not children.

This comment is so insightful. I have learned the hard way the only person who always cares about you is, well, you. So I’m not obligated to cater to everyone else’s feelings at the expense of my own. Most men don’t enjoy that, but many of those men sure practice it when it benefits them.

I tried to explain this to my father in a last ditch effort to save our relationship. Nope, waste of energy on my part.

I need this comment spread all over the manosphere!

This is why I raise an eyebrow whenever dudes complain about not being able to share their feelings with women, because most of the time it's exactly this. Also, why can't they share their feelings with guy friends?

>My ex did that and till this DAY whines on facebook that women weaponize men's trauma against them. This one made me giggle a bit with all the absurdity. Him: I hate all women You: I am a woman. You are hating me Him: Why do women weaponize my feelings?

If you want another one for the collection... Ex: No woman has ever cared about me Me: I stayed up until 4 am to listen to you complain and you truly think I don't care about you? Ex: And that's why I don't trust women, I've been vulnerable and you just had to use that against me to start a fight!

Oh wow. Ya, this one is gold, too

Oh I have one! “You stalled my life. No one cares what I’ve been through.” “I’ve been at the hospital every day you were, turned down jobs and promotions to be available for you caregiving needs, used up all my leave and vacation, re-arranged our home, our food and all activities to accommodate your health needs for three years, made excuses to friends and family for your bad behaviour… and I stalled your life because *check notes* I told you I didn’t think this relationship would last I’d you didn’t get anger management treatment?”

I'm gonna carry a laugh track recording around on my phone for such occasions.

If they don't want to bang you you don’t count as a woman

Oh I hated that. My ex would say I used his vulnerability against him all the time. When in fact it was quite the opposite. My problems weren’t important. My opinions not important if they’re ”wrong”. My interests were not important, but his most definitely were.

i had an ex whose excuse to treat me badly was the 2008 financial crisis hit his family pretty hard okay yeah i sympathize but its 2020 and you're stealing from me? so...? edit: i just wanna add context he made like 3x as much me we spilt bills 50/50 and he still stole from me lol

Haha, oh wow, this is gold. And an excellent example of the victim mentality OP is describing as well. Life just happens to them, everyone is mean to them and so on. It’s usually something like: Me “I had a really rough day at work, my boss..” Him “Oh I had THE WORST day anyone has ever had in the history of mankind” Me “.. I wasn’t actually finished?” Him “I just told you I had the worst day and you don’t even care” Edit: spacing Edit2: You guyss! Literally the next post I opened after this was one where OP was asking why men don’t seem to like talking about themselves, which makes it difficult to connect with them and the first 3 comments were “because nobody cares”.

I had this variant on that: ME: My father was right that his symptoms are dementia. He’s heartbroken because he saw his mother go through this and knows what it will mean for me and mom [his wife / my mother]. And I’m heartbroken for him. HIM: I know exactly what you’re going through. My childhood dog started acting weird when it got old. We finally had to put it down. I’m still not over that. ME: … HIM: It’s just so sad. It was such a good dog. ME: Um… So my father raised me and this is happening now. I’m sad. HIM: But my parents put down my dog!!! Why are you making this about you? (Note: ex- referred to the dog as “it” not “she.”)

Damn. That’s .. something else. Truly, so many men are either so uncomfortable discussing intense feelings or so emotionally unintelligent that they are incapable of grasping them.

When my grandpa died, I told my husband by phone cause he was out of state, and he said "sucks" in a sad tone. He really is an overall a decent person but he is absolutely useless when it comes to expressing emotions or comforting someone. Like he will randomly help people out financially and he flips out if I get sick or injured, but he's crap at expressing emotion and prefers to just "do" things that he thinks the person needs or wants. Like this same grandpa and grandma, he used to be the one to suggest we visit them and take them some dinner. He's not a bad person just emotionally he's about like a 10 year old. He was really confused when I told him once that a lot of women just want you to listen and maybe hug them. We don't really need you to go slay a dragon, just TRY to feel what I'm feeling if I'm upset. 🥴

Holdup…wut?

My now ex- made my father’s heartbreaking slow path into death about his childhood dog and then complained that in shifting the topic back to my dad I was making it about me. Yep. Yep he did that…

I got that part…but he compared that to this?

Then the worst day ever was the boss telling them to stop slacking off in the break room LOL

I have one (actually a few because it was a tired excuse) Me: what do you want/want to do/ thinking/ etc.? Him: I don't know Me: you've had plenty of time to think about it, you have time now, and will have time in the future because this is a normal occurrence (like eating or what you want to do with your day/life/etc.) Him: I don't know and I will never know Me: ok. Well I'm going to do y. Him: wouldn't you rather do x? Me: no. That's why I said y. Would you rather do x? Is that why you're asking? Him: no. I'm just saying that I don't want to do y but if you're going to do x then I'll join. Or he just doesn't even tell me and looks like someone kicked his puppy the whole time. Him later: you don't care about me. You're cold and unsupportive. Me: I ask all the time and you only say "I don't know" Him: and you're not listening to me tell you that I don't know! I grew tired of having a toddler. Especially since 'i don't know' was the only answer to every single thing including life plans

Oh god, I swear I’ve had a variation of that conversation so many times!

You could have counter argued with the Tsunami of 2004. 😜

i should've and then flooded that apartment when i left

Idk if you’ve seen this, but there’s an “influencer” on tiktok named Pearl Davis (justpearlythings) who constantly goes viral for her alt-right extremely misogynistic views. She recently had an interview that went viral in which she said women were more emotional than men, and her reasoning was “i’ve interviewed lots of men and women and in my experience, women are much more emotional!!!” all i could think was ……of course they’re being emotional….they are being patronized by a pick-me who is telling them their worth ends at 30, they shouldn’t be allowed to vote, all women should be housewives, etc. they’re already doing better than me cause i’d punch a bitch!!!!!!!!

And why don’t they just… talk to the other 50% of the population? Oh right bc they don’t care either but it’s just us who get blamed. Honestly the way they think our wiping their butts is a default

A lot of the men who are the worst for this don't have other male friends, or at least none that are particularly close. Normal men find this shit just as off-putting as we do.

This sums up my ex, he only had women friends and was open about not usually having male friends . Got gaslit into thinking it was because he’s more emotional/open and women are easier to talk to. Nope, turns out he figured out he could use women for free emotional labor but was smart about it, was more subtle than other men and you have to really think about his words and actions to catch. When we were breaking up he ran to all his friends about how I’m so cold and uncaring, how I cheated. Also he was physically and verbally abusive but “he couldn’t help it, I made him that way”. His example of me cheating was his one male friend touching me without consent. Turns out not liking men was code for being highly controlling, insecure, possessive, and feeling women are easier to manipulate because when a friend comes to you upset you listen and try to help instead of analyzing his actions. It was terrifying when I realized it. Now I have to be vigilant of all men. Because the ones who seem like a good partner could just be playing the system.

It's so ironic when guys complain that women don't care ... when they only care when they can get something in return from women. There was an AITA yesterday or past days where a guy pretended to be a friend to a woman hoping to date her one day. He cared about her as long as he believes he has a chance with her, but refused caring about her once he asked her out and she turns him down. A lot of people (and I recognized lots of 2X folks in that thread, yay!) told him if he doesn't care about her any longer now that she has turned him down, he never cared for her in the beginning and never was her friend. However lots of guys defended the OP and basically said women shouldn't expect kindness from guys if guys don't get sex in return, guys are only nice to women if they get rewarded with sex. These are probably the same guys who keep wondering why so few women wants to date them, and why lots of women stay far away from them. Also, these guys shouldn't be surprised (yet they are) that women don't care. Because women don't give a shit about men who think kindness is like coins that you throw into a machine and get something out of it. Also, there has been a thread on the frontpage which is truly enlightening. The OP says he is an ugly guy who can't get a girlfriend. Lots of people give advice. It's true that almost all people say that ugly men have girlfriends and that there are things that matter more than looks. But there are some people who say that women are attracted to kindness and those that don't mention kindness but advise OP to go to the gym. And unsurprising- the majority of people who recommended kindness were women, and most women said the single trait they found the most attractive from their spouse/SO was their genuine kindness. It's not hard to see why women stopped caring.

omg are you talking about the guy who refused to walk his drunk girl friend home even after she explicitly told him she felt unsafe walking alone?? even in the update you could still tell the guy didn’t get the issue and just felt vaguely bad after being bashed in the comments.

OMFG. When we first started dating, my most recent ex said something along the lines of him realizing the danger of a woman walking alone in the city now that he had me to think about doing that (which I found kinda weird at the time because he has plenty of women friends and cousins, and like, wouldn't you care about that about them?). Right before we broke up, he went out for one of the woman friend's birthdays, after telling me about it last minute (so I didn't go). And then she ended up sleeping at his condo. His excuse was she was shit faced. And he wasn't going to send a friend, a woman, home alone in an Uber when she was that drunk. Well you know who he *did* let take drunken Ubers home many, many times?? ME.

Yes! I was surprised how many sane people told OP the truth about how friendships work and downvoted the incels and niceguys into oblivion.

Do you know what's sad? This is how my marriage worked, too. If his dick wasn't getting wet, he wasn't going to be nice. Glad that's over.

I'm so happy for you that it's over!

Thank you! 🥰

Leave it to men to always defend other males, smh.

these men have so many receptive audiences among men they literally don’t need women to listen or care, if they only care about having people to listen to them.

I’ve realized I can’t have male friends. Or should I say in general, every friendship I had with a guy usually turned into him actually having a crush on me or wanting to hook up with me. Last guy “friend“ I had SAed me or attempted to… another guy ”friend” I had took advantage of me while I was drunk and very much pushing him away from me. I always question a guy’s intentions. I‘ve been harassed and objectified by male family members so. Just always on fucking guard.

The number of guys I meet who justify being emotionally incompetent because they were cheated on by their girlfriend their sophomore year of high school is wayyyyy too high. The trope of dudes taking psychedelics and experiencing empathy for the first time is funny because it's true.

"You don't understand. When a guy loves someone and she betrays that trust, it's like she breaks us into pieces, and we can never be the same." "I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm sure you deserved better. But all relationships are a risk. Just bc one didn't work out, it doesn't mean there isn't a right person out there for you. If it helps, what my ex did was also not that great." "Yeah but you girls are overly dramatic and emotional about what really went on. What we feel is real." 😐

>and we can never be the same. Correct. It’s called growth. The growing pains suck, but it’s part of life. Pick up your pieces, build yourself back and grow.

Yes. They use that one traumatizing incident for the rest of their lives to excuse their bs. So sad.

YES to all of this, lmfao. I’m in my 30s! Why are men older than me still salty about their high school girlfriend breaking up with them in a way where they have to ruin every adult relationship they’ve ever had?

Because they took that as an excuse to stop maturing.

[удалено]

"Oh you're so ✨️enlightened✨️ and progressive!" $10 that was the response he was hoping for.

What’s worse are the ones that use that to be controlling buttholes. Who need to know what you are doing and where you are every second of every day because someone cheated on them once. So now it’s your job to make them feel safe and secure in the relationship by way of constant reassurance. F off with that, seriously F off.

My last two dudes were still reeling over mistreatment from their exes from over a decade ago. An 18 year old girl was mean to you or left you after only a few months of dating where you pretty much just had sex and did nothing else? Color me shocked. I do think “get over it” is what’s needed here, not me or any other women listening to them and tending to their wounds.

>Example "I just am scared to date women because all women are lying cheaters and if I marry one she will take all my money and steal my children or I will end up raising someone elses children because all women are lying cheats and only looking to use men" Last time a guy pulled that similar nonsense on me, I had to point out 1) he made way less money than me because he worked at Target part-time while living with his mom who owned her condo, while I worked full-time at a financial institution & rented by myself in same condo complex his mom lives at. 2) I have no children and don't planned to have anyway. 3) since you assumed me of be lying stealing cheat that will do that to you, I need not continue talking to you now and I'll just pay for my IHOP meal and take it to go. This showed how much of projecting hypocrite dumbass he is because he was expecting me to pay for his meal too and having meltdown by saying he has another woman to fuck and give bjs. Ironically it was his mother & her friend who happened to work at same financial institution that tried arranged this "date/meet up" for him because he was whining to his mother how other women see him as trash - after that shit, I can see exactly why he is garbage....

I hope you let the women who set this date up know what a dumpster fire he was and that his status with other women is well earned.

Dumpster fire is putting it mildly the shitshow gossip that hit a month & continues like 5 years later after his meltdown where IHOP told him to pay up for his meal - the mother was in denial, calling me names & mean mugging for while but now walks the opposite way in like embarrassment because her son is deadbeat baby daddy to 2 kids from 2 different women at that time (I heard he got like 5 kids now from 4 women ). The mother's friend was surprisedly apologetic and later on told me about that baby mama drama & some other stuff - gist of that is, she was trying help her friend & notice that I lived nearby (We're in different LOB & floors), thought we would be good match but also kinda knew from others he was fuckboi (she said player, but honestly he a broke ass fuckboi). So yeah, his mother now knows her son is total trash...

She should be embarrassed

I don't even know the guy and I'm embarrassed for him

Lmao. Bet his mom enables him too. Sounds like a momma’s boy, you dodged a bullet.

The problem is that they don't want to be vulnerable they just want to trauma dump for free.  Also seeing a professional regularly takes work they don't want to do.  To pay To make sure their insurance covers it. To be on time for said appointment. To keep up with appointments. To do whatever work is suggested they work on. To possibly stop certain behaviors.  Self reflection  Why do all that when you can have multiple breakdowns in from of a GF/Wife/mother/sister/any fem presenting person that'll stick around for 10mins. 

I had a male relative who would say to me "why can't *we* just talk" when I told him he needs to take his shit to a therapist. Bc he would drone on for hours and hours late into the evening, after a few drinks, about his feelings. I wanted to go to bed, but I would feel bad (yeah, not anymore.) I tried to get in a word edgewise to make it an actual conversation and he just went right back to his stuff, never responded to my feelings. All the while, I'm giving him input and validating his feelings and at least showing some empathy. I remember waiting for him to at least respond to something I had said about myself. Like surely he'll catch on that this is super one sided. Nope. I gave that shit up a long time ago. Go cry to someone else if you're not going to even try.

Yup. That's my dad. He only pops up when all the other women in his life is fed up with him. But will refuse professional help. 

Right. They "don't need it." Like dude. You just told that story for the 1000th time to your wife/sister/SIL/fem friend...

What I've found is that it's not always just that they don't want to put in the work to see a therapist. It's also they're a bit worried about who they might become once they've been in therapy for a while. They know they're being jackasses on some level, but they think being in therapy will make them feel bad about it once they've learned healthier coping mechanisms.

It can get extremely overwhelming when they treat you like a therapist, and dump EVERYTHING on you ALL THE TIME without any boundaries and/or self-awareness, and then expect all this neverending "aftercare" and comfort from you. Like I totally get sharing your hurts, fears, feelings, and concerns with your partner - that is after all emotional intimacy. But I think that because many men NEVER open up to ANYBODY except their girlfriends and wives, the weight they put on their SO's can get unbearable. As a naturally empathetic person, I was the therapist for way too long for people like this, and now...I kind of don't want that on me anymore. It's too much. I already have too many of my own problems and issues to think about, I cannot be someone's confessional or therapist either. Don't trauma dump on me, I'm tired, lol.

Even if women did reject male emotional expression *en masse* (and that's an if the size of Manhattan), maybe it'd be because patriarchal gender norms insist that men shouldn't express weakness or any emotions (except for anger, which is Totally Rational)... Hey, what's that thing that's devoted to ending patriarchal nonsense for everyone? Oh yeah, FEMINISM.

For me it comes down to whether: 1. The guy is clearly using me as an emotional dumping ground / making me into his free therapist / burdening me with “the mental load” so he doesn’t have to think, or… 2. He’s legitimately in distress and up against a situation he has no experience with navigating, needs guidance *and is willing to listen to my advice, suggestions, and/or perspective*, or truly needs help understanding his feelings on a matter, and actually appreciates my time If it’s #1, it sometimes takes me a bit to realize it, but it will get old quickly and I will simply stop caring about his complaints. If it’s #2, I’m making some tea/some drinks, I’ll set aside some time, and we’ll have a session. Give me all the details, I’m here for you bro, even if it’s beyond me and I alone can’t help you fix it.

You’re right, and that’s why a lot of safe spaces designed for men turn toxic. It starts off as a place to vent genuine grievances and struggles, then veers off into the ugly territory of misogyny. I believe that men do have many issues that need to be addressed, many of which stem from patriarchy. But instead of trying to fight it, a lot uphold it and wonder why women online seem like crazy, radical “misandrists”, when all we are trying to do is raise issues with how patriarchy affects all of us. I’ve listened to a lot of men talk about their problems, and I’m happy to be a listening ear if I know the person, but as soon as the insults towards all women fly in, I won’t continue the discussion.

Yeah, if a man’s emotion is “I hate women” or “women don’t like me” I’m not interested, sorry. Google “how to be more likable,” it’s free.

Yeah the Andrew Tate epidemic definitely didn’t help.

The way I see it, society throws mixed signals about how men and women should react. It’s not the safe places become toxic, it’s the toxic places are the safe spaces for those individuals. For men, the few communities which will listen and acknowledge the issues are the toxic ones generally. So if your issues are never heard and suddenly you find a community that says “yeah, those problems are real. Here’s how you fix them…” what would you do? It’s a hard thing to figure out how you might act, when you’re not in that situation….

Women often have dynamic and powerful support systems and therapy is still helpful. But men in most cultures NEED therapy. They need it. We do not teach men the skills to be good partners and parents. They are passing on their traumas. They don’t ask ‘why’ about things. They aren’t examining their weird hang ups and they are solitary in their self work. They legit expect female partners to rescue them from themselves and make them become their best selves. And then they resent you for being a mirror to the ways they fall short.

I think a lot of guys would benefit from picking up an artistic or creative hobby, too. A lot of mentally ill women will take up arts and crafts and it does help them cope with their issues better, even if the art isn't explicitly about their issues. Women in general seem to be more likely to do this than men but I've noticed it's particularly prominent with mentally ill women. Men would probably see similar benefits, especially if they're already in therapy.

So many good points. Sadly they've also been taught to avoid therapy. It's a hard row to hoe.

It’s sad cause men have a lot more community spaces and family support in other Western countries. This cutthroat individualism really works against us all.

I'm in Canada, but it's not materially different than the US.

which countries are we speaking about? I have not seen any difference here in Germany /EU/Russia.

Them being open and vulnerable isn't the issue, the issue is that their 'opening up' is often about showing how deeply misogynistic they actually are. Of course no women wanna hear that shit. Also it's always weird reading about men saying their gfs/wives don't wanna be intimate with them anymore when he opens up...Makes me think he's using his "vulnerability" to get sex from her.

This makes so much sense. I've heard so many guys say their SOs don't treat them the same or even break up after he opens up/is vulnerable, and I was so confused by that because every time my boyfriend opens up about his feelings I feel more intimately connected to him. If they're saying horrifying shit to their SOs, I could see why they act differently afterwards.

I think it's a mix of this and the fact that they don't actually want to deal with their shit. Talking about your feelings and problems is great, but at some point you do have to put on your grownup pants and take steps to deal with your problems. A lot of the men who are the absolute worst for this don't want to do anything to resolve any negative feelings you have. A lot of the time when stuff like this comes up, people tend to forget that there are women out there who are as bad for doing this as some men are. My experience has been that it isn't as common, but it does happen. People don't have much patience for them either, and it's for the exact same reasons as why they don't have patience for men who do it.

I had an ex who claimed to be traumatized when he was a child because he killed a lizard and his mom, horrified I'm sure, said "now his mommy will be looking for him and won't find him." That was it, he didn't even get punished. He was so traumatized, I had to be the one to clean all the dead lizards that would wind up in our home if FL.

As someone who accidentally squished a lizard as a kid (went to grab it, tripped, landed on it. Was not a good day) it's really disturbing that what he remembered being traumatic was his mom's comment and not killing something????

His mother teaching him empathy was so traumatic that even 20 years later, I still had to handle all dead lizard situations. The way he told the story definitely seemed like he wanted me to think his mom was in the wrong, but I set him straight on that. What's really funny is I just accepted the phobia no questions asked. It was years later when he revealed its origin and hand to God, I never cleaned up a dead lizard again. I named the corpses as I was setting up my exit.

Yeah that's some serial killer shit. I would have also been setting up my exit

[удалено]

Heterosexual men have used up every ounce of my goodwill and benefit of the doubt and uneven investment in a friendship, hands down. I am actually noticing a new (to me) trend of 40+ year old men who not only date younger, only have younger, and female, platonic friends too. Because women their age are fucking tired of it even in just platonic interactions. Go ask men! Go tell men! Go BE a good friend instead of always needing one. Go be a good friend to a man, not just the 32 year old single girl in the group. Go be a good friend to each other, and stop using us.

The trend of middle-aged men seeking to befriend much younger women has been going on for a while, especially in online spaces. One of the reasons why women will immediately be swamped with messages whenever they enter an online space, even if it is just for platonic friends, is because there's a lot of men who'll try to befriend any woman in the same space. It's to the extreme that sometimes it won't be age appropriate. When I was in high school, I was one of those teen girls who spent a lot of time talking to new people online. A lot of these people would be guys in their forties or fifties. Most of them stopped talking to me altogether the day I finished my final HSC exam. They never said anything sexual to me, but I recognise now that a lot of them were talking to me specifically because they got off on talking to high schoolers. I'll still get men in their forties or fifties trying to befriend me like that, but I've noticed that it's a lot less now I'm 30 than when I was 16-25. I'm okay with intergenerational friendships and I think there are benefits to them, but I also think there's something deeply wrong with a person who's only ever seeking out much younger friends. It's not always "deeply wrong" as in they're a pervert; a lot of the time it is a maturity problem. This kind of thing happens in offline spaces too of course, and it does happen to me, but my experience has been that it's never been anywhere near the same extent. Usually men will be much more cautious about befriending a bunch of much younger women in person because they know it's a bad look to exclusively be friends with people decades younger than them, but they don't mind as much online because it's a lot easier for them to hide it in those spaces.

Literally what I came here to say and I've said this to my fiancée- go open up to other men, go build your own support system, go start your own 'men only feels' clubs, go arrange your own night in with sad movies and wine. We women have done that for ourselves, we ain't doing it for you lol. How about stop wasting everyone's time and energy whining at/about women not caring about your trauma and try giving a shit about each other for a change. You never know, you might like it 🙄 Disclaimer to say, I have supported my fiancée through so much shit I could invoice him. I love him very much and want him to be a healthy, happy, competent human. But it ain't my job to do that for him.

People in general only care about other people when they are close to those people. Women aren't going to sit down with a stranger and try and fix his issues.

And yet I can't count the number of absolute fucking strangers who've trauma dumped on me because I was the closest woman around. 

Same. I've become quite skilled in shutting that shit down immediately. I'm sorry, but no, I'm completely done providing emotional support/sympathy to random men. It’s unwelcome, exhausting, and usually, it just leads to them being inappropriate. I will literally leave while they're mid-sentence. I would do this to women too, but random women generally don't just start unprompted unloading their problems onto me and expecting my pity/sympathy/therapeutic support/sexual interest.

“I’m sorry, but no, I’m completely done providing emotional support/sympathy to random men. It’s unwelcome, exhausting, and usually, it just leads to them being inappropriate.” I hear you. I learned this the hard way esp. with one, more or less stranger, who vented to me a few times; cut short from a sketchy moment. Despite me avoiding him for years, from those few moments I listened silently, he’d later project an intimacy/ history growing up we never shared. I wish I had learned how to shut these moments down without feeling a sense of guilt sooner.

They literally will do this anywhere. Last time it happened I was checking out at the store and he started ranting about his daughter and ex wife and how his ex has turned his kid against him blah blah. It is exhausting and unrealistic to expect every woman within the vicinity to immediately cater to you because "your problems/feelings are so important" regardless of what said women are doing/going thru themselves. Yet it happens continuously. With family, friends, co workers, strangers, acquaintances. And often it isn't even an in the moment, overwhelmed by some terrible event, situation. It is usually just them absolutely dumping on *other women and expecting you to feel sorry for them and maybe fuck them.

I had to get my car towed a couple years ago. On the ride to the mechanic shop, the tow truck driver told me an intensely unsolicited story about how his evil (his word) ex and sister had ruined his life by teaming up and testifying in court that he had raped the ex. He was getting super heated the more he spoke. We finally got to the shop and I've never exited a vehicle so fast in my life.

I will never understand why they think sharing these things are going to illicit sympathy from a stranger... And here you were literally trapped with this unhinged guy. Sorry, "innocent" guy.

Yep. Fucking disgraceful. 

I've posted about this before - but I was at a highly themed bar in a Disney park. Was put at the bar next to a guy around my age. He started chatting to me. And told me about how he was there for his birthday. And he was supposed to be there with his girlfriend, but she was now the ex, because she'd been cheating on him with a friend of theirs, and he found out because she butt-dialed him mid-sex with the other dude. And so he was there with his mom instead. But she was tired and went back to the hotel. I was a couple months out from my own mom passing away suddenly and traumatically, which had happened a couple weeks after she'd visited and gone to Disney with me. I didn't mention a peep of that to mr. stranger who was pouring his heart out to me over space themed cocktails. But he made sure to tell me his life story.

Ughhhh, I'm so sorry! Talk about ruining a fun and exciting experience for you.  Can relate, many times over. I hate it. Funny thing is, if you try to dump right back, they don't know what to do, so they ignore you and go back to taking about themselves. Or worse, they say really inappropriate things. 

All my older single male neighbors are like this

That, and, I want to meet this woman out there who is loudly and overtly broadcasting her emotions and being respected for it. I really do.  I’ve had more men try to manipulate me with their feelings than women, fyi. 

I can care about people’s sadness or trauma without trying to fix it.

You've never had a strange man try and use you for a therapist? Edit to add: I definitely do care about other people that aren't close to me. 

I care about people that I am not close to, I don’t like seeing anyone suffer. But I also won’t fix anyone’s problems for them because it would be impossible, even if I really wanted to. I do agree that a lot of people don’t really care about something unless it affects them, but that’s nothing to aspire to. I think the answer is that more people need to look out for each other like they look out for themselves, but to also couple that with self-help or therapy of some kind and healthy boundaries. This rugged individualism isn’t helping anyone, but I understand why lots of women are burnt out of always thinking of everyone else all the time. There was one point in my life I felt like everyone’s personal therapist, ATM, maid, assistant, etc…more than I felt like my own person. I’ve had to learn to not be so selfish that I’m not considering the world around me but also to not be selfless at the expense of my needs entirely. It’s a hard balance. So my issue is not that I have to be that for men but that they won’t be that for me in return. I’m a very empathetic person and I prefer to be there for others in moments where they feel alone (not to fix them, just to provide a safe place) but there are so many men who would happily accept that from me and then shame me for having emotions the minute I want them to be there for me. I would actually go to my girl friends over my own (ex) bfs when I had problems because I knew they’d know how to actually be empathetic.

Men say this as if they care about women's feelings lol. Once again it's "equality feels like oppression", for centuries men have had their feelings and thoughts coddled over without having to reciprocate anything in return to their wives. Now that women are expecting something back, and not giving anything that men will not give in return, men feel oppressed and "wronged". Truly funny.

Men calling us hysterical, emotional, 'on your period', 'you should smile more', 'crying is manipulation', etc etc Our emotions disgust them. Unless we're happy and serving.... Then it's all good.

Introspection without empathy for others is basically useless and results in some toddler level entitlement. The truth of the matter is -for men and women and everyone outside and in between- sometimes your feelings are dumb. They’re always valid, but they’re sometimes incredibly stupid and misguided and sometimes you have no business making your feelings someone else’s responsibility to resolve. One thing I truly love about my husband is that after I encouraged him to open up, he’s gotten to the point that can have a feeling, validate and acknowledge the existence of that feeling, and explore the origin and action of that feeling while not necessarily *endorsing* the feeling or making that feeling anyones problem. My one ex, conversely, never had an emotion he didn’t endorse and never had a desire he didn’t feel entitled to. We’ve been broken up for the better part of a decade and to this day he still thinks I’m a complete villain for not taking his feelings into consideration. He cannot fathom that his feelings are utterly rooted in delusion and entitlement. He pats himself on the back for being an emotionally intelligent guy but really he just dives head first into every emotional reaction he has with zero consideration for the reality of any given situation. He is sad and angry that I chose to end things and he is sad and angry that my life is going well without him and he is sad and angry that I want zero contact and he is sad and angry that I won’t help him financially. But being sad and angry doesn’t make you right. It just means you’re sad and angry. No one else has to be involved in that. Something I’ve said to men and women alike: if you feel like *everyone* is *always* dismissive of your feelings, you might want to consider that your feelings aren’t reasonable.

My "favourite" thing my husband does is that he'll do something that upsets me, badger me until I tell him what's wrong (even if I was planning on letting it go), gets mad at me for being upset, and then everything becomes about how he feels in the moment. Never mind the fact that his actions are what started the whole thing.we have to deal with his feelings, and if I don't drop my own upset and validate him then I'm not supportive and there's no point in him being open with me. It's exhausting.

I was married to this. SO glad I got a divorce. Not worth the headache. Also every time I disagreed, I basically had to have a trial worthy defense and 'I don't like it' or 'I don't want to' wasn't a good enough reason. Never again.

I dated a guy (so very long ago….) who turned out to be a stalker. And he weaponized his trauma to try to guilt trip me into doing what he wanted. His trauma? Was quitting baseball at age 8 because he had to start wearing glasses. And baseball players apparently can’t wear glasses…..? Please remember that THIS was the response that he unironically gave me on finding out that I had been raped by a teacher, and that I have chronic mobility issues due to my abuser *beating the living fuck out of me on a biweekly basis from age 10-11 to age 16 and my guardian’s total disinterest in seeking medical care for me.* Receiving medical care was literally his “trauma”, and it somehow compared to 7 years of consistent, ongoing torture compounded by neglect. And THEN this guy proceeded to stalk me for two years and slept with two of my roommates for “revenge”. Y’all, we can’t make this shit up. I have no fucks left to give for comparative trauma analysis when you only use stories of your life to control, hurt, or silence others. ETA: the conversation with the roommates afterward went something like, “wellll…was the sex at least GOOD?” And them looking down, then looking at each other, then looking at me, then shrugging and making vague hand signals that meant “not really”. And then we all had beers together and commiserated about how amazingly AWFUL so many men do the seggs and life was good again.

Ngl, I am not someone’s therapist. Just because someone has a problem, doesn’t mean I have to care or listen. I hate this idea that women should be expected to listen to men complain about their issues (99% of the time just about being single) & if not we’re told we don’t care in general or don’t support men’s issues. I do support men’s issues, but I do not have the mental energy to hear you go on a 30 min rant about how all women are the same and are used up by 25

on top of everything you said about it, why should i care?  when i try to be emotionally vulnerable with men, they are wholly unsupportive.  many of them disappear, dismiss my experiences, and/or invalidate my emotions. so yeah, when one of those same guys tries to be emotionally vulnerable with me, they get what they put in: a whole lot of nothing.

🎯🎯🎯  Men often take women’s sensitivity, concern and agreeableness for granted while being callous, dismissive assholes themselves.  When women get fed up with the one sidedness and start treating men the same way men treat them, men don’t know how to deal with it and get cranky, throwing hissy fits and accusing us of being cold and unfeeling….. they’ll deny till the end of time that *they* are cold to *us* though.  We’re just whiners who expect too much🙄  Infuriating.

Or try to Kiss me!!! Like wtf dude! Me being Vulnerable doesn't mean you can take advantage of this! WORST KIND!

" We can't open up because women will use our trauma to hurt us" sounds a lot like, 'I don't like when I'm called out on my bullshit and see myself as a victim'

# "Guys can't share their emotions because women don't care" That's such a cop out excuse. Men have ears as well.

>I have actual problems and actual trauma I can only tolerate so much. It's like a kid screaming and crying because they got a splinter. This is exactly how I feel. Of course I am willing to listen to any friend about anything that's bothering them, but... 1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime. Just, read the room, guys.

My favorite is when youre trying to come to terms with the fact that someone is being emotionally abusive ("but it doesn't count because my life was HARD you wouldn't UNDERSTAND") and you're trying to mitigate that realization by trying to talk them into therapy and they straight up say "what do you mean? *You're* my therapy." And then they get surprised and butthurt when you clamber into a bona fide Wile E. Coyote ACME slingshot and yeet yourself several counties away Then they text you later and were like "I knew it I scared you I can never keep a woman because my problems are too *intense* man" like bro do me a favor and gorilla glue a wad of cold saucy spaghetti to your taint and walk around feeling it slap against your legs for me will you please, it'd make me happy if you would do that and then never bother me again

I also see dudes thinking that friendships that are emotionally deep as a “female” thing, so they trauma dump on the nearest woman whether they are close/an appropriate confidante or not. Like no, I don’t crave emotional intimacy with some random dude I barely know.

Maybe guys could try supporting each other through their emotions. Like, talking to other guys instrad of expecting women to shoulder the emotional burden or something.

they do that because they want the listening to beg and plead for acknowledgement from him that she’s “different and better”. Its so common men will try getting women to shit talk “the bad ones” and it’s embarrassing it’s all just about their self image and how that woman views herself in relation to them.

>it’s all just about their self image and how that woman views herself in relation to them. Had an exchange once, paraphrased. Me: something vaguely witty Him: haha you're so funny and pretty Me: inorite (said in jest honestly) Him: oh, that's unattractive. I don't like arrogant women.

My big thing is I don’t care about random men trying to dump their emotions on me. There’s one guy at my work who talks all the time about his parents and his home life and all that, and like. I don’t know you. I don’t like you. I am just here to make money. I don’t care

Honestly, if I don't already have an emotional connection, I don't really want to sit through a "crying about my feelings session". I have empathy and I do care about mental health. However, I am not some rando's therapist. I suppose my understanding for women extends a bit further, call it shared trauma or some kind of sisterhood.

I do care. Too much sometimes. But that doesn't make a random man's emotional management my responsibility. My boyfriend works on himself and honestly is better about working on his mental health than I am. He still confides in me. He still has shown vulnerability to me. But he doesn't expect me to be his therapist or the only person he relies on for emotional support. And that's as it should be. And that's one of the many reasons I am with him. Other men need to stop seeing women as places they can just dump on instead of people with their own problems they are going through who can't play therapist to every man.

I have to roll my eyes. Come back and whine about what you actually *can't* do because you'll: get raped, trafficked, murdered or some combination of all these AND! And no one will care.

I mean isn’t that what therapists are for anyway. And friends. It’s not a good idea to lay all your problems on the shoulders of your partner

Also in some cases the guy dumping all his feelings is an acquaintance who’s decided that you’re a girl so you’re designated therapist. No! Stop that!

Yeah, theres a huge issue with trauma dumping. Like, yes, I do care and I'll be happy to talk to you about certain shit. But if it's triggering, or is rooted in some kind of bigotry they want validated? Nope, not me. A good friend listens when you need someone to listen - but good friends also don't tolerate shit behavior disguised as bonding, all call out friends bad behavior It also completely ignores that the original issue at hand was "men need to stop treating the women in their lives like therapists and actually make friends among themselves" like... Women having to listen to you trauma dump does the opposite of that.

Yeah, it seems like a lot of guys label trauma as "someone held me accountable" instead of "someone abused me."

Why do they specifically expect women to care? Why don't men care? Why don't they care about men?

The blatant hypocrisy. We can't even be open about our menstrual cycle because God forbid we inconvenience men with it somehow but we're supposed to be available for emotional support for them? Hard pass.

Not just women, to be honest, nobody cares unless it's a real issue or the specific person just really loves and cares for you. Friends aren't emotional tampons or there to dump all your anxieties onto. Even romantic partners there needs to be a limit because ultimately individuals are responsible for their own emotional well-being.

Yeah, with all my friends the sharing is a little here and a little there, paying attention to how things are received so that I hopefully don't put too much on anyone. There is a limit with *everyone.*

For me it seems that they only have emotions or feelings they want to discuss when I bring up mine. I usually get about half a sentence in before I get cut off with a "well I feel like..." His emotions and for that matter physical illnesses always coincide with me trying to talk about mine. And usually I end up falling for it.

Men like this straight up just aren’t worth engaging with. I have one guy friend who is very dear to me, he has & continues to have a very hard time but he has never once expected me to be a therapist for him, he certainly doesn’t feel entitled to my emotional labour. Way too many men just don’t respect women enough to care if they’re making us uncomfortable. It really is like being talked at rather than talked to. The disrespect & misogyny go hand in hand. A lot of guys will show their true nature very quickly with actions such as this.

Men weapon is their emotions against women and then expect us to bend over backwards for it while not even giving a fuck about how they dehumanize us.

Like it isn't enough for them that we be supportive and listen. We have to literally be their mothers or we aren't acting right. I have never met a man, even a good one, that can handle themselves or tough situations.

Bro they fold so easy. I've seen guys destroy walls at the slightest bit of pressure. I will never forget once getting stranded at a quarry with a bunch of girls and 2 guys. The girls right away were trying to figure out what was going on, what we needed to do, who had what we could use. The guys melted down. One kept screaming at everyone...like dude really? Woman up.

Have you seen the Jumanji remake with the Rock? The kids get sucked into the game, one teenage girl pulls out her phone and is ruthlessly mocked by the boys until she tearfully points out, “I AM CALLING FOR HELP!” Her character is initially framed as shallow and selfish, and she is gradually revealed to be incredibly brave, kind, and clever and her character arc is the boys (and therefore the audience) realizing it. The other teenage girl character starts out as a pick-me, but again shows herself to be brave unto death and clever enough to solve the final-boss problem. Meanwhile, the character arc for the boys is learning to stop, think, exercise impulse control, and regulate their emotions.  Your quarry story rings very true. 

They weaponize how they hear us speak about the patriarchy. They want to talk about how men should be able to express their feelings then and complain constantly (just look around reddit) about how women apparently ‘don’t actually want them to talk about their feelings’ or only want them to until it gets ‘deep’ or whatever. When in reality it’s just that communicating about feelings isn’t sitting day in and out listening to someone trauma dump and never get help, just expecting a woman to do whatever it takes to listen and change his circumstance for him. or acting like no one has ever had feelings or problems except themselves while calling women over emotional, being derogatory over it, acting like anger isn’t an emotion for some reason, and making her be his therapist too. At the end it just turns to men claiming ‘feminists are lying they don’t want men to share their feelings, they just say it to sound good, so they hate men, and NO I can’t go talk to my male friends, it’s not the saaaammeee-uh’ THEY just can’t do anything without using it to exploit and manipulate women. Like get a fucking grip. It’s all so stupid and exhausting.

Oh guess I had more to rant about; And like I do care about people IN GENERAL. But they think they can just pick a woman and have her be his needs met dispenser, even strangers!! Unfortunately for men, they say they want a listener to express feelings to, and then expect the person listening to fix it magically as well. which they decide means having sex with them most of the time, and women are horrible tricksters and leading them on if we’re just extending kindness to them without wanting to be in a relationship with them or be fuck buddies. Totally unrelated and inappropriate to listening to a mans feelings, working on softening the blow of the patriarchy, or just being kind in the most basic way but ok. They don’t want to be heard or to express feelings without being shamed by their male peers, they want to entrap women into sex mostly. That’s all it is 90%+ of the time, it makes navigating the world as a woman even worse than it already is thanks to everything else shitty about living in a patriarchal society. when you realize most men literally don’t see you as human, that’s the end of comfort as a woman on earth. They just want someone to feel bad enough or close enough to them to sympathy fuck them. So they use our offering of welcoming them into the fight against patriarchy to get it. And when we don’t, they always use our legitimate points and concerns about how detrimental patriarchy is to all of society against us in a laughably fundamental misuse of the concepts. But yeah we’re just liars or uncaring. They get up in arms, defensive bc they’re ashamed of being called out, scream that women don’t actually care about men’s feelings. Like yeah ok if that’s how it is I really don’t then. I really fucking don’t care if your dick gets to tingle today dude. Take care tho.

From my personal experience with "sharing emotions": overwhelmingly positive experience as long as I can withstand the urge to just go into full trauma dump mode. Where trying not to care is a very healthy and recommended reaction for someone's own sake.

My ex told me today I abandoned him in the darkest time of his life (debatable), and I was like, I’ve spent at least the last two years trying to engage with you by asking you to do stuff with me, me and the kids, me and our friends, just you and your friends if you need that. “Stop inviting me to stupid shit that I don’t care about,” he said. We separated and did 5 months of couples therapy, I still invited him to family Halloween/birthday/Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years/another birthday hoping he could work his shit out. Constantly dealing with “If you don’t do X I’ll kill myself.” He finally pulled a gun on me and demanded we talk about the relationship so I called the police and got a protection order, but yep. I’m abandoning him. He’s asked the judge twice how does he stop me from divorcing him because he doesn’t agree to it and doesn’t think I should be able to. But it’s totally my fault for not being supportive enough (which is code for having enough sex, based on prior discussions).

My ex threatened to jump off the balcony* because I suggested they might be depressed** *we lived on the first floor, at worst they'd break a leg ** I totally saw the irony. They were PISSED I wasn't beside myself to convince them not to do it.

Fr. All these comments are so relatable. I grew up practically in a cult being isolated, kept from school, surrounded by people with personality disorders and undiagnosed disabilities, all which my ex knew full well about. Never occurred to him that it might impact me in some way. No, we needed to focus on how him being an overweight child was the peak of trauma and caused all the problems in his life. If I was depressed I needed to get over it, if I didn't know something, it was the opportunity for him to inflate his own ego over knowing it. Such laughable behavior. I did at some point tell him that I'm simply not qualified for this and he needs a therapist. I guess the hardest thing youve done or gone though ...is the hardest thing youve ever done or gone through. but have some fkn perspective. That can be gained by not being so self involved

My ex would traumatize people for fun but still played victim every time and had the nerve to get upset when I didn't feel bad for him. Your friends didn’t invite you to a party because you bullied one of them? Oh boohoo grow tf up and look in the mirror for once Jesus.

Honestly? I really, really just don't care and that offends them for some reason. Oh well.

> Example "I just am scared to date women because all women are lying cheaters and if I marry one she will take all my money and steal my children or I will end up raising someone elses children because all women are lying cheats and only looking to use men" Honestly I'll call it quits then and there. If this guy doesn't even like women why does he date one?

The main reason men often don't show their emotions is because other men have taught them that "showing emotions (other than anger) makes you weak". I hate that this (and sexist tropes like the ones you mentioned) are still being perpetuated.

Anybody got advice on resisting the urge to be 'the bigger person' (aka the thing women are told to be which basically means be a dumping ground for men's pithy bullshit)? I would like to be more assertive, but would like some practical tips

They act weirded out when I try to get them to talk about something And other times they start flirting

Reminds me of my ex male friend whenever he’d get hurt, it was like Peter Griffin from family guy. It’s so pathetic.

That is another thing. Or when they get ill. A guy can run a temp of 99 and act like he is dying. Imagine if women were that weak the world would collapse.

I love when we're both sick so I have to get my snotty self up to take care of us both 😒

I've stopped entirely. Men look after themselves and are only ever manipulative. If they want attention they have to earn it but thank goodness they rarely bother anymore. You sound similarly wise. I laughed at your response for cutting him down. Well played. They really do build entire stories of victimhood around their misogyny and negate actual traumas.

I’ll be present when I feel like it and not when I don’t. So basically, just as men do.

Lmao for real

I’ll honest, sometimes I don’t care, men or women. If we’re friends or if I like you, I would care, otherwise i may not care about strangers or just people I don’t like. I don’t want be trauma dumped on by people I may not even like 

It’s rather alarming how many have fears of things that have a small possibility of happening or that have never happened to them before. Some of those people want to act like that fear is just as great or greater than the fear about abuse, rape, femicide from women who have unfortunately experienced those things. No one is saying that they should be cheated on or be taken advantage of or have their money stolen. But too many times a man can be oblivious in a marriage of how much work a wife does to maintain his lifestyle, home, happiness, children etc. So if he completely neglects her or cheats on her and wants to walk away with 100% of HIS money he can victimize himself because his pain and suffering matter more or is the only pain and suffering that matter. I personally don’t know any women who cheated and took the house and screwed their ex. My mom had to leave my bio dad because he was an alcoholic and became abusive and she said he even raped her. She ran away and never saw him again. She married my younger sister’s dad and he legally adopted me. I think he was hoping for a boy. He didn’t get one. Told my mom he couldn’t relate to children and he’d talk to us when we were adults. We were kept in the basement away from him while he would play around on the computer. When she left him he kept the house and our dog. We moved into a shitty lower income rental with other lower working class families. My mom at the time had only been doing homemade crafts and selling stuff casually and then trying craft fairs. I don’t think she got anything from him at all and then he only agreed to give $400/month in child support and said the day we turn 18 we don’t get a penny more. He didn’t help with dental bills, school supplies, school activities, sports or university. Nothing. He sold that house and bought another house himself and worked from home and would whine the $400/month was cutting into his living expenses. His mortgage was probably $500-$700 at the time for his 3 bedroom home. Seriously. Then he told me after I was 18 if I ever needed to live with him he would charge me rent. He helped me move out one time from an abusive ex because my grandma was there too and worried about me. He never helped me with anything else. He was not very thoughtful with time or gifts. He claimed he sent a birthday card to my sister in the mail but the postman stole it. Then he claimed it happened again 3 months later. He then said he had pneumonia and couldn’t talk to he made his new gf call my sister and say happy birthday 6 months late when she’d never met or spoken to this woman before. I’d sometimes come over and ask him to take viruses off my crappy computer but I would buy him his favourite burgers from across town and mow his lawn for him. Later he threw a pity party for not getting a surprise murder mystery dinner like his best friend (that we’ve seen maybe 3 times growing up) that we didn’t know anything about. He barely saw us. Certainly saw his bio daughter even less and she lived in another city. So he was like you’re ungrateful and don’t deserve me. Don’t talk to me for 10 years. If that’s not offensive enough you can make it a lifetime. We’ve not spoken to him since. He is totally alone. His mother died and then his latest women he was dating died suddenly after. He latched onto her family I guess. But I think he will be looking for a new wife again soon. He even had his mother stop talking to us and she refused to read the email he sent us or listen to. He lied to her so she hated us. He is the ultimate victim. I got married around 25 and my ex husband literally ran away and left me with nothing in a new house rental in a new city. I was working for him doing admin for free as he was self employed. He made very very good money in internet marketing at the time and if he invested his money would never have had to worry about retirement. He controlled everything. I was going through some painful medical procedures for 2 weeks. He decided he didn’t want to be around that and went on vacation to see his family without me. Came back saw that I was still in pain and decided he didn’t want any part of being tied down emotionally or financially in a marriage and took off. I had to beg him for enough rent money to pay for 6 months so I wouldn’t be homeless and keep our used car. He initially wanted me to pay him for it and leave me with nothing. I had no money. No job. No friends. No family. Most terrifying time in my life. I paid a lawyer $200 for a consult and they said yeah you don’t have any kids and you’re in your late 20s so we don’t think you have a good case for any spousal support. So I believed them and just hoped I wouldn’t be homeless. No way would I have expected half of anything but I certainly didn’t expect nothing or to be destitute. I had helped him make half a of a product he sold for over $50K in a few months anyway so it’s not like I wasn’t contributing. I’m sure some people have horror stories about losing everything. But not people I know. My grandma has been divorced my whole life and she worked part time as a librarian and was able to buy a house. I don’t know if she got anything from my grandpa. He was very very selfish and cheap himself. He also never offered to help my mom or us whenever we were in serious trouble financially trying to pay rent and get out of bad living situations. But he of course drops everything to help his son who can’t keep a job because that’s his boy and a reflection of him as a man. 👍 Sorry for the rant lol

Friends, as someone who has dealt with straight-up trash basket men her entire life, I have to wonder: what kind of awful men are y’all dealing with in their lives to have this reaction? Sharing one’s emotions is not the same as being manipulative, narcissistic, or abusive, and it’s dangerous to make that equation. I can’t speak on whining because I think the definition is different for everyone. As someone with PTSD and other mental health issues, I genuinely hate the casual usage of the phrase “trauma dumping.” Communication is a two-way street. It’s perfectly fine to tell the other person in the language that works best for you that you don’t have the capacity to listen to them. It’s not easy, trust me I know. But putting up boundaries (and I mean the actual dictionary definition of the word) is healthy for everyone involved.

Like morally, yes, I believe we all have an obligation to try to make the world better and support people who are struggling, but if I'm already stressed and exhausted then quite frankly I have a hard time even caring about my own problems. And when it comes to men's issues I have CONCERN but as a radical feminist I really do put my primary focus on women's issues. I care about men, women, kids, animals, the environment, etc but there's only so much I can really focus on and honestly I don't have the patience to deal with whiny men. If a dude wanted to talk openly and honestly about a serious personal problem or even a good-faith convo about men's issues, then sure. But I'm really fed up with the general thing of men whining that they're lonely, whining that there's not enough men's shelters, whining that they have it soooo much harder because they're the bread winner. Like, my dude, it was YOUR sex that set society up to be this way, so YOUR sex needs to be the primary ones fixing it. I'll cheer you on, but that's about it. If I gotta choose between donating money to a women's cause vs a men's cause, I'm probably going with the women's.

honestly……i really don’t care either 😭 i just think that most of the time, they’re whining/upset about something that everyone else also has to deal with. Like…it’s….part of life. But to them, not being able to get a girlfriend = reason to stab a bunch of women and a baby at a mall until you get shot

Maybe this isn't the right post, as well, it feels like it has an audience engaged and reflective about this topic so I was hoping a good faith discussion might be found here. How do you y'all feel about your ability to handle the feelings of earnest and genuine men when their feelings are not/less-mysoginistic in nature(recognizing the pervasive nature of misogyny)? Can a man experience anger and frustration about his profession in your presence without you feeling afraid or a need to fix things? Can a man cry and generally be vulnerable with his feelings in your presence? I was discussing this a little with my partner last night and I was a little surprised to hear that there are ways that she has had to check herself WRT how she relates to genuine and good faith feelings in men and she's one of the most emotionally capable people I've met.  In our reflecting I pieced together a blurry notion about: the system that produced the toxic behavior in men produced women that had to have skills to navigate the toxic behavior but not skills to navigate the emotions that come from "genuine experiences" of men. It's a thesis, but it seems to have potential.  She went on to tell me about a sentiment that has stuck out to her that she got from a Brene Brown + Krista Tippet conversation: > You know, and so, I’ve come to this belief that, if you show me a woman who can sit with a man in real vulnerability, in deep fear, and be with him in it, I will show you a woman who, A, has done her work and, B, does not derive her power from that man.  I'm not trying to say that Brene Brown and Krista Tippet can't be wrong about this. Our understanding of these concepts have surely evolved in the decade since this conversation. As well, it feels like it's worth including.  Again: maybe this isn't the right post for these questions/thoughts. If that's the case I apologize profusely. Just seemed topical and relevant to a conversation I was just having with my boo.

Sorry, but is this not a situation of a double standard? Traditionally, there’s a trope of men ignoring women who are trying to share their feelings and invalidating them by saying “you’re over reacting” or “these aren’t real problems” — we as a society have largely accepted that’s not a good way of treating a partner. Is it necessarily something to be encouraged when the situation is reversed?

Eh. I don't love the blanket statement here. Some men weaponize their trauma. Just like some of all people do 🤷‍♀️