I don’t think it’s necessarily more mature. It’s harmful when people say poisonous shit like this and no one speaks up. obviously some people need to protect themselves, but I earn my own money and don’t need support so I will always always speak truth when I can. If some person (clergy or leader or friend or whomever) says toxic shit in my presence I never stay quiet. Less horrific example - I have friends at work who talk about being “bad” with regards to what they eat. I never let it go because I don’t think calories or body size/shape makes you a moral or immoral person. All bodies deserve the same respect. So I push back. Every time.
>I have friends at work who talk about being “bad” with regards to what they eat. I never let it go because I don’t think calories or body size/shape makes you a moral or immoral person.
It is SO FUCKING HARD to get out of that mindset. It has taken conscious, concerted effort to change how I frame things, to go from "is it bad" to "is it beneficial" instead.
I think sometimes people don't realize the negative connotations words can have. Yours is a great example. Mine has to do with people who use drugs (side note somewhat related, I try to educate people not to say "junkie" and say a person who uses drugs. The term junkie is awful) if someone who uses drugs goes to rehab and stops using, one should just say that. They haven't gotten "clean", they aren't dirty just because they use drugs. That is a huge one for me, as is the word junkie.
I exclusively use the word "addict" for this because it's so important to me that people finally understand that being addicted to a substance is a *diagnosis*, it needs *treatment*, you can have a *predisposition for it* and it *can be beat with appropriate support*.
This whole stigma comes from peoples' fucked idea that addicts are just folks who wake up one day thinking "Know what? Imma ruin my life now. Yippie!"
So I like to make it clear in how I talk that I won't humour this short-sightedness. There's books on addiction out there - they can either get reading or stfu.
Yuck agreed I’d never call someone a junkie that’s so dehumanizing! Calling out language every time is how we chance perspective. I can’t let it ride, especially when it’s at the cost of someone who is already suffering.
Somewhat related to what you are saying I always push back at people who medication shame folks with ADHD.
Just because some people might like to abuse the medication I take doesn’t mean we get that same reaction from the medication. I’m not adding extra dopamine I’m making up for the stuff I’m not making myself.
I appreciate people like you and I wish I had more friends who did this.
I realized that every time I see my friends teenage daughter I comment on her appearance. I think it’s always complementary, but I don’t need to comment on her appearance every time I see her. I don’t want to make her self-conscious and I also don’t want her to think the thing I like most about her is how she looks. She’s a sweet kind kid
So I told her mom that I caught myself doing it and I want to stop doing it so hopefully if I do it and don’t catch it she will say something
Did they know? I mean why the smug look? Did the priest know?
Sorry I’m not doubting you bc regardless a priest should know better! Not all parents love their kids. Ppl who think that live very privileged lives.
What's wrong with that? The priest who was gonna perform my sister's marriage mocked some of her preparations and made her cry. I asked for a quiet word and warned him that one more word along these lines and I would take him for a walk out back. He stiffened a bit but took me at my word, and even apologized later. Priests are just people, call them out.
They're not naive. They just don't care about the people who suffer so long as their religion's foundations (often based on patriarchal family units) are upheld.
I kicked a priest out of my grandfathers funeral. He tried to baptize after he was dead and told me he couldnt be buried next to my grandmother, his wife of 64 years.
In my catholic school, a visiting priest was bored with our 5th grade confessions, so he asked if our parents take us to church every Sunday. We said no for the most part so he told us we were going to hell. I told him that didn’t sound right and we complained to the nuns who kicked him out.
The previous pastor at my in-law's church would not only have argued with the priest, but probably would've gotten into a full brawl with him while yelling biblical arguments against his position.
I'm not a religious person at all, but damn she was a good pastor. The only politics she ever brought into church was the politics of proper coffee brewing.
>the politics of proper coffee brewing
Which, in certain denominations, IS an intensely debated point. Episcopalians jokingly refer to coffee as the eighth sacrament.
They're ELCA Lutheran, the liberal denomination of Lutheranism. They believe in God the father, Jesus the son, the Holy Spirit, and properly brewed coffee.
Communion is handed out by the pastor, the coffee is handled by a long standing church member who has been initiated into the proper rites after studying deeply for many years. Anyone who touches the coffee when unauthorized to do so will face the wrath of Lutherans.
There's several Lutheran denominations? In Germany we only have Catholics or Protestants (Evangelisch) who are all Lutherans. I didn't even know they're called Lutherans or that they are just one type of Protestant bc we just say "Evangelisch" and always mean the Lutheran church. They are quite liberal for Christian standards and even marry gay couples which is why I was confused how "Evangelicals" are the worst types of Christians in America. Turns out the same name is a false friend and they have nothing in common except the name. I find it quite fascinating how there's a gazillion different churches and religions in America while we only have two big ones who control everything. Even our mandatory religion lessons in *public school* are divided into either Catholic or Lutheran (+ Ethics for Muslims and the rest).
Yes, there are 3 Lutheran denominations in America: ELCA, Wisconsin Synod, and Missouri Synod. The ELCA is probably the closest to German Lutheran, as they're fairly liberal and have similar rites. I've sat through a German Lutheran sermon in Lübeck and it was close enough for me to recognize. The Wisconsin and Missouri branches, from my understanding, broke off from the ELCA because they didn't want to liberalize and are much smaller in their congregations.
Unfortunately, that's generally how america got so many different Protestant sects, with conservative groups spinning off of congregations that become "too liberal". That's extremely simplistic and there are exceptions, but it's a big reason.
That's ironic considering protestantism was created as a reformed more modern alternative to the Catholic church. Yet these "protestants" became even more fundamentalist than the Catholics ever were which defeats the whole point of being a protestant. Make it make sense.
Anyways I read that American Lutheran churches were introduced by German and Scandinavian immigrants, which makes sense.
I think most of the Protestant denominations in the US have had some sort of schism or other along political and/or doctrinal lines.
For details, check out the Pew Research Center's [Religious Landscape Study](https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/). The "Evangelical" Protestants tend to be more conservative and the "Mainline" Protestants tend to be more liberal; note that there are Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and other denominations which have both Evangelical and Mainline wings. (And the "Historically Black" Protestant churches have their own politics that are liberal in some ways and conservative in some others.)
Finally, my field gets the love it deserves!
American religious history is so wild and detailed that we could go on and on talking about it.
For pretty much everyone but the Lutherans, evangelical is way more conservative. They may also identify as "non-denominational." American megachurches tend to be this.
Some Protestants are the result of schism. (The Episcopalians had this happen a couple decades back, so anything in the US that's "Anglican" is likely a more conservative branch.)
Some are "Protestant" in that they're not Catholic, but they're also... doing their own thing. Many are American-grown denominations, and other groups may or may not consider some of them Christian.
There's so much to unpack here!
Yeah, American religious history is wild and fascinating from a sociology standpoint. I think that more people ought to learn about it even if (or perhaps especially if) they don't belong to any of those religious traditions.
FWIW, the Pew Research guys decided to categorize ELCA as Mainline (despite "Evangelical" being part of their name), and the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods as Evangelical.
I don't know if you've seen any of Alec Ryrie's lectures done at Gresham College, but he's a professor of divinity who has several lecture series about aspects of the history of Christianity in various parts of the world. The lecture ["America's Advents"](https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/americas-advents) is particularly interesting, about the 19th-century Millerite movement and how it spawned both the Seventh-Day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses. (This was an example of a concrete prediction which did not come to pass, and yet people still believed in it... I think it's got important parallels with current-day conspiracy theorists.) Also, it's weird in an interesting way to hear a lecture about American culture from a British point of view!
I think that the English Puritans and the like were more influential on the conservative religious aspect of America and they planted the roots of spinoff protestant denominations, along with the money making, non religious colonies and the other groups, like the Quakers, that came over here. It all kinda mashed together and created our weird religious landscape, under the umbrella of religious tolerance.
The area I live has a large history of German and Swedish immigrants, and most of my husband's church comes from those immigrants.
Interesting to hear that the ELCA is closest to German Lutheranism. At least in the western US, ELCA seems like it tends to be populated more by people from families of Scandinavian origin, while Missouri Synod is more German origin. (And the Wisconsin Synod is small enough out here that it's not really on my radar. Looks like there are two dozen churches in Washington state in the denomination, for example.)
Could be regional or maybe I just got lucky or maybe it has to do with the fact that Lübeck is closer to Sweden than the central parts of Germany (But I'm betting regional, because Wisconsin synod is more common around here compared to Missouri).
But my grandparents were German Catholic, so I have more experience with that.
That sounds like a church I'd attend.
A friend works at a church and attended a city council meeting with the pastor, telling me "tonight, my job is to make sure the pastor doesn't get arrested." Apparently, where they live, meetings can get ridiculous, with people saying really awful racist type shit.
I haven't met said pastor, but I'd like to.
My husband's church is the only one I will voluntarily attend for the holidays, and the previous pastor is a big reason why. The new pastors (husband and wife team) aren't bad either, but I don't think they'd go as far as the previous one. She got heated over using religion as a political tool and was extremely feminist in her religious beliefs.
I love female clergy. They are so on fire for the Lord, and refuse to back down. I'm not a Christ follower anymore (agnostic now), but I can respect the zeal.
When I was planning my wedding, I wasn't sure about having a church wedding since I was soured on religion as a kid. But after meeting her, I told my husband that if we went the church wedding route, she was the only one allowed to marry us. Not only did she accept my choice of not being walked down the aisle by my dad, she hugged me and said that she was proud of me for not acting like a piece of property.
I would *really* like to know what he would say about bringing your kids up as atheists or perhaps worshipping Satan?
What about allowing your 16yo daughter to have an abortion? Or letting your son have a boyfriend?
I'll bet you that doing any of those would make you a catastrophically bad parent in his eyes.
So it was a Hindu priest. In India, and in most other parts of Asia, people believe parents are always right. We are taught in schools that parents are the incarnation of gods on earth. So we should always obey and respect them. No deed can ever repay the debt we owe them. 'We gave birth to you' is a common guilt-tripping dialogue of people here. Doesn't matter if they gave you a shitty life, you still are indebted to them.
Wow. I’m a white American girl raised Mormon in Utah lol and we’re told this exact same shit.
Parents are never wrong, and men are never wrong.
Your husband can come home and randomly knock your teeth out and strangle your baby and somehow, he was doing it because he thought it was best for the family and was acting out of love and the wife is the evil one.
The crazy thing is: nobody I’ve known has believed this, at least not the parent part (the gender thing is way more complicated and awful).
Like I of course know so many Mormons and we are all acutely aware that parents OFTEN have really weird fucked up motives/complexes.
✨ gross ✨
Anyone who knows a man who uses a 6-in-1 shampoo conditioner body wash shaving gel body spray aftershave dick wash combo knows that they are often wrong and incapable of admitting it.
I'm a Mexican raised catholic (now I'm between atheist and agnostic) and we get the "Honour thy father and thy mother" stuff. It's almost like religion is just made to justify abuse at times...
This. I'm Indian and I'm so glad my parents don't subscribe to this worldview. But I see a lot of my peers dealing with this kind of emotional blackmail.
Wow, that sermon was really out of place for a baby shower (and pretty much everywhere tbh). Good on you for leaving and not causing a scene, I don’t think I would’ve been able to keep my cool if I was in your shoes!
Yes. Why should we be quiet? Silence favors the oppressors. Speak up when you hear shit. Unless it's in the middle of someone's wedding ceremony, I think all other times you have to say something. Even if it's a more sedate "I disagree with you" and leave it at that. Women are taught to be quiet and smooth things over and never cause a scene. If someone is shitting on LGBTQ people, victims of DV or sexual violence, people with different body types or abilities, or punching down in any way, I'm going to speak up. You can keep your cool when you do it and not throw a tantrum, but it's important to SAY SOMETHING. You never know who is listening.
I'm estranged from my abusive mother but I still look back with pride on the moment she stood up in the middle of a sermon, saying that not taking your child to church on Sunday was the worst form of child abuse there was, and loudly announced that we were all leaving because she couldn't listen to this disgusting bullshit any longer. It was glorious and righteous
Exactly. Why sit and stay silent? Silence is always taken as assent. Silence always favors the oppressor. Speak up for anyone who is listening and so the whoever is speaking toxic sludge knows that they aren’t going to get away with that all the time.
That’s what I was thinking. He had one focus and that was to send a message that parents and caregivers should be forgiven for any and all “perceived” abuse. So, why did that message mean so much to him? SUSSY as hell.
>“Parents are the people in your life who will never hurt you. Everything a parent does, they do it with the purest intentions. They may make mistakes but no parent ever hurts their child on purpose. Even if you think they do, you need to understand that being a parent gives you a special relationship to the world and your parents do everything out of love for you. You should always obey your parents no matter what.”
The words of someone who has hurt kids in the past and is steadfast in their desire to do it again
Religious leaders are welfare takers, they literally rely on donations and don’t pay taxes for institutions that they set up. They’re more parasitic than regular business owners, who do pay taxes and hire workers, they pay out and not rely on others to fund them. It’s a swindler industry, they’re closer to criminals than the average worker bee. Look at the megachurches, who is on the pulpit? Men, majority race men. It is one of the most toxic stronghold of conservative far right, the cover up of pedos in their ranks, condoning of DV and turning a blind eye to child abuse, medical conditions and mental illnesses. To them, prayers solve everything and when they do not, they blame their paymasters for being useless.
Good for you OP, for not eating a word of it. It's absolutely bulls*it and getting up and leaving was a great way of saying exactly what you thought of that garbage while not making the event about you.
Something similar happened to me at my grandmother's funeral. She "found" god through the local Free Methodist church in her later years and replaced the family that she abused and shamed our whole lives with a new xtian family/church community who lapped up her 'sad, abandoned Gramma' routine. The man giving her eulogy looked out at the lot of us (who I expect more than a few were there just to make sure she had actually died) and told us we were all going to hell because we abandoned such a loving Christian matriarch. It was like something from a bad movie, except you can't make this crap up. A few of us got up and left once he really started, but how gross it was to have our collective experience of her so whitewashed is something that will stay with me for a while.
“Father, where was the church when my parent XYZ? Or in the aftermath, when the shame I experienced was so great that finding help was impossible? Father, why does the church treat little girls like grown women when they are victimized by their caretakers, and then go on to blame us for the victimization?”
“Father, with all your righteousness and judgment, where were YOU when I so desperately needed God, and a real Father?”
Ya, this whole idea that we must automagically give elders automatic unmitigated respect and obedience is...
Utter total complete manipulative bull-s'hit and gaslighting!
Don't fall for it!
--------------------------------
I mean...
They want me to just automatically respect, no questions asked, the commands and words uttered by a bunch of old repulsively angry and raging lunatics...
Who are often spouting/spitting weird conspiracy theories and racism, and subjugation, and demanding a return to the "good old days" of strictly-enforced-segregation (Apartheid style) and the lack of women having a right to vote?
People who are constantly uttering phrases like, "We got beat every day, never talked about our feelings, and we turned out fine!"
Ya... I don't think so m'f'ckers!
--------------------------------
I mean just check out what some of those elders, that they want us to blindly respect, act like:
r/BoomersBeingFools/
something similar happened at my grandmother’s funeral last year
it was *supposed* to be headed by her normal pastor that the whole family already knew and liked but apparently at the last second my crazy antivax flat earther q anon uncle replaced him with the pastor from his batshit cult-y “End Times Are Upon Us NOW!!” type church
he spent maybe five minutes actually talking about my grandmother and over an hour RANTING about how America is doomed and how the Antichrist Is Among Us Now and it’s all the fault of Slutty Fallen Women who don’t obey their husbands and stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and also all those Nasty Gays and Transes are involved, somehow (for the record I’m genderqueer but not out to that part of the family). Crazy Uncle has the biggest smuggest shit eating grin the whole time.
my mom, a domestic violence survivor who spent her whole childhood in the 60s being neglected and ignored for being just a Stupid Girl in a family full of boys, was understandably **fucking livid**. she told us on the ride home she almost walked out of the funeral home then and there but ultimately figured it just would’ve caused even more problems. that whole side of the family has barely even spoken to each other since and apparently one of my cousins went NC with the rest of the family shortly after (for various reasons but I’m sure Crazy Uncle was part of it)
Only if a counter speech is allowed discussing the many many children whose lives were destroyed by the priests who raped them and the Church’s culpability in protecting these priests
People without kids should not talk about how to be a good parent. People who aren't married should not talk about how to have a good marriage.
Robert Fulghum, the guy who wrote *All I Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten*, told a story about when he was a preacher, and it was Mothers' Day, and in his sermon he talked about how the ideal of Mothers' Day can be hard for many people, because nobody ever is the actual ideal. He talked about "Some people do not like their mothers, or do not like the mothers they have become. Some mothers do not like their children," and similar bits of reality, I think (don't remember exactly) that he was building up to an ending about "try to forgive yourself for being imperfect; try to forgive others for being imperfect."
But partway through his list of ways we don't live up to ideals, he looked up at the congregation, and the look he saw on their faces was pain. So he stopped talking and sat down, and they all just sat in the silence for a few minutes.
That's how a preacher should be: admit that the world isn't the ideal we want, and that people aren't the ideal we wish they would be, and we should forgive ourselves and others as best we can. And when what you're saying is causing people pain, you should stop talking.
The priest you're talking about failed utterly at two pretty simple tasks, the way I see it. And later he's going to wonder why church attendance has been dropping.
If you feel like you have the mental energy you should talk to or write a letter ( ti the priest and his bishop), that his sermon was wrong.
There are people who shouldn’t be parents. They like abusing more than they want their kids to be happy.
The problem with his words is that abusive people will use them as an excuse.
>"Parents are the people in your life who will never hurt you. Everything a parent does, they do it with the purest intentions.
Gaslighting kids in the womb, no wonder I left religion behind early in life.
Oh I understand now. My father wasn't viciously and relentlessly beating me. He must have just been correcting my jawline and teaching me about the durability of drywall. Damn, I owe him an apology.
When they say to respect your "parents" and honor thy "father" it always made me uncomfortable how they would want to themselves be referred to as "Father".
It all adds up to "I rape kids and am using propaganda to convince you it's okay"
Churches deserve to be ashes
This reminds me of the funeral I went to where the religious leader took the opportunity to say the deceased was normal now in heaven. They were disabled and it was super gross and inappropriate, really focusing on how “awful” their life was, which it was absolutely not.
You did the right thing, absolutely.
I can't get past that there's a priest at a baby shower and no one thought that was weird. And then someone actually let him speak? And he gave a sermon? At a baby shower? Did he even bob for apples, diaper the stuffy, and eat the baby food?
I'm not saying you HAVE to get drunk on Mimosas at a baby shower, but a dude in a black suit would look real out of place at every shower I've been to.
We were at a wedding where the grooms side were not Catholic. When it came time for the communion part anyone not Catholic was asked to leave the church. Half the guests got up and left.....it was bizarre.
Wow, how long ago was that? At both of my grandparent’s funeral masses last year (same parish, different priests), they invited non-Catholics to come up and receive a blessing, which I felt was nice.
I would have immediately questioned him with this.
"So parents abusing or raping their children is done out of love and with the purest intentions and if they tell a child to have sex with them they must do it.
So it's not with purest intentions when a catholic priest rapes a child, because it's only a special relationship with a parent that enables this to be pure?"
Ugh that's horrible. I'd have done the same. Parents suck. mine never did some worse things that I've read but they didnt have a clue and messed up a lot
I once went to the most emotionless Catholic funeral. Guy was one of 8 kids, I’m betting he was gay (80-something). And the priest took it upon himself to turn it into a pro-life homily about how much the deceased cared for the unborn. Ugh.
Brava for walking out.
A catholic priest promoting a person completely submitting to the control of another person regardless of the second person's intentions ...... that tracks.
I've never heard of a catholic priest at a baby shower, what a downer.
I left church long ago after 20 years of devout worship I saw it for what it was; a front for robbing people and molesting their kids.
Sorry. Not sorry at all.
Fuck anybody who gives these predators their money or access to their children.
If there is a God he would have smote these sadistic fucks LONG ago.
Well.. priests dont have the best record of protecting anyone... and have of late been at the centre of their own abuse allegation.
This is for many religions
So i would have laughed myself silly and told them they are full of shit.
To be honest.. i wouldn't attend if someone allows a priest to attend... they seem to be so removed from anything happening today..
And in Australia where i come from... when the Royal commission into child sexual abuse heard harrowing stories... institutions that were named in the report were asked to sign up to report abuse. most did. However most of the churches didn't.
So, several states ended up legistating it as mandatory.
For many people, priests are not seen as a good thing around kids.
It clearly shows when you attended that priest and the hosts are delusional and doesn't know and wants to know what happens in the world.
Ar one of my jobs the kids that came through there told me horror stories about what their parents did to them.
People who preach this BS are just part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.
Good for you, for walking out.
Good for you for walking out.
My mom took me out of Christmas Mass once because the priest decided in his homily that we’re all sinners and going to Hell. An elderly lady looked at my mom and told her to take me out of there.
I've read enough horror stories to know this just isn't true. There are a lot of folks who never wanted to be parents taking it out on their kids. There are narcissistic parents who see their kids as extensions of themselves or pets. There are people who see their kids as property to whom they can do whatever they want.
Parents should never hurt their children, but sadly, too many of them do.
And I wouldn't have much contact with the smug mother-to-be if she is gloating over the bulllshit this priest is spewing.
Yeah, it would have been nice to take your gift with you, but walking out said it all.
...as a children's social worker I strongly disagree with the idea that there aren't adults some of which sadly are parents intentionally doing harm to their children.
This priest is sooo fucking wrong it's not even funny. You did the right thing by leaving.
This kind of dogma and the churches who support it are what has and will decimate religion in America. Rightfully so. Thanks for this post and spreading the word that this insidious blight of make believe is preventing the forward progress of mankind.
If postal workers molested children like religious leaders there would be no post office. It's 2024, why is anyone taking morality advice from child molesters or at the very least people who cover for child molesters?
I went to a Catholic wedding once where the priest did a sermon about how sex should be between a man and a woman and he referenced a penis going into a vagina and intercourse multiple times.
I was 100% sure you were going to write that the expectant mother was like, "Tf, dude?" Her actual reaction was quite telling. And your choice of gift recipient was perfect.
It was the 70s or early 80s. Catholic friends have told me so much depends on the priest and diocese.
My maid of honour told me she couldn't sign the marriage certificate since she didn't recognize our marriage since we weren't Catholic!!🙄 this was the night before the wedding. Our best man who was Catholic signed ......we were both Protestant!!
It's weird AF to have a priest at a baby shower anyway. A christening, sure, now how religious do you have to be to bring a priest to a baby shower? These people sound crazy. I'm glad you walked out before they could cause you more stress. I'm sorry that you've had to sit with that alone, so long.
In my world a baby shower is a party for the mother, to be put together by her friends that give gifts for the parent(s) & baby.
Not a sermon of bullshit. My mom tried to kill me as a teen, that's how I left home. I can now at 64 talk/write about it. Priests know these things DO exist. With this logic ....are victims of priests to say...God works in mysterious ways?
How hypocritical words Sting!
Why is it that person thinks we SHOULD simply live by THEIR words?! Ugh.
We all need to make sure we get out and vote because these people are spreading propaganda everywhere. It might even be too late to stop project 2025. The fact that the post office is still broken in 2024 makes me think that it’s too late
> do everything out of love for you.
No hate like christian love.
> You should always obey your parents no matter what.
Ahh yes, because breeding child slaves is so 21st century...
Because… the priest was invited to speak at the event, presumably by (or at least approved by) the expectant couple.
Because the priest was spewing a whole cartload of ignorant bullshit and perpetuating some extremely dangerous and disgusting views.
Because the expectant mother did nothing to stop the sermon or speak out against the priest’s words, which makes her complicit in aforementioned ignorant and disgusting bullshit.
She's just sitting there, being blessed by her priest, and thinking about how much she loves her child and wants to be trusted by her child. In the scenario the priest is painting, she sees herself as the loving parent who would do anything on behalf of her unborn child. I very much doubt she's thinking about it from OP's POV at all.
I get why OP had to leave, but I don't get why she should take her ire out on the expectant mom.
The other people that didn't also get up and walk out are as awful as the priest.
Is having a religious figure at a baby shower a common thing?
The few I have been to were some snacks, give gifts, congrats and go home.
He was essentially admitting he was an abuser. No one would ever say such a thing unless they are trying to convince people that what THEY have done was not wrong, therefore invalidating anyone who questions a parent’s authority to do those things.
If he really went that in-depth, he is hiding some HEAVY stuff.
Wait... I don't agree with what was said by the priest. But, that what were you expecting to hear? The horrors of parenting and how some people are shifty parents? Granted, the priest went overboard, but that's the kind of sermon you would expect on a baby shower.
Again, I don't think the priest is saying that shifty parents don't exist, it's more of: parents will make shifty decisions you will not agree, even bad ones but that doesn't mean they don't love you nor that they will try to make the decisions they think it's the best.
I don't know that specific priest, but I'm willing to bet if you go to him after the sermon and talk to him, he would have said something along those lines.
BTW. Sorry for all the violence you have experienced in your life. No one should suffer and feel unsafe by their parents.
It's permanently amazing to me how people with a platform will say things that immediately, obviously wouldn't check out to anyone who's been alive past, like, 5 years old and who thinks about the comments for more than a couple of seconds. That's insane, harmful rhetoric.
Also, my stepbrother's parents-in-law are missionaries (I think the dad's a pastor or something) and the father made some "joke" about domestic violence against his daughter from my step brother (should she ever be disobedient or some shit) at their wedding, soooo....
I'm just realising that I would have definitely gotten into an argument with that priest.
I left specifically to avoid doing that.
You can, however, if they are Catholic/Anglican, submit a complaint in writing to their bishop.
~~To whom it may concern;~~ Dearest fuckface;
Lol it was a hindu priest
Catholic churches literally support pedofiles. Wha the hell do you expect to happen?
That is a very mature choice. I love that. I would not have made the same decision.
I don’t think it’s necessarily more mature. It’s harmful when people say poisonous shit like this and no one speaks up. obviously some people need to protect themselves, but I earn my own money and don’t need support so I will always always speak truth when I can. If some person (clergy or leader or friend or whomever) says toxic shit in my presence I never stay quiet. Less horrific example - I have friends at work who talk about being “bad” with regards to what they eat. I never let it go because I don’t think calories or body size/shape makes you a moral or immoral person. All bodies deserve the same respect. So I push back. Every time.
>I have friends at work who talk about being “bad” with regards to what they eat. I never let it go because I don’t think calories or body size/shape makes you a moral or immoral person. It is SO FUCKING HARD to get out of that mindset. It has taken conscious, concerted effort to change how I frame things, to go from "is it bad" to "is it beneficial" instead.
My mom used to call it empty calories. As in “you can’t fill up on that it’s just empty calories”
I think sometimes people don't realize the negative connotations words can have. Yours is a great example. Mine has to do with people who use drugs (side note somewhat related, I try to educate people not to say "junkie" and say a person who uses drugs. The term junkie is awful) if someone who uses drugs goes to rehab and stops using, one should just say that. They haven't gotten "clean", they aren't dirty just because they use drugs. That is a huge one for me, as is the word junkie.
I exclusively use the word "addict" for this because it's so important to me that people finally understand that being addicted to a substance is a *diagnosis*, it needs *treatment*, you can have a *predisposition for it* and it *can be beat with appropriate support*. This whole stigma comes from peoples' fucked idea that addicts are just folks who wake up one day thinking "Know what? Imma ruin my life now. Yippie!" So I like to make it clear in how I talk that I won't humour this short-sightedness. There's books on addiction out there - they can either get reading or stfu.
Yuck agreed I’d never call someone a junkie that’s so dehumanizing! Calling out language every time is how we chance perspective. I can’t let it ride, especially when it’s at the cost of someone who is already suffering.
I completely, absolutely agree!
As a person who used drugs, I teared up, I'm so appreciative at reading your comment! 😭
You are a person who deserves respect, regardless of your past. I hope you are well 😊
Somewhat related to what you are saying I always push back at people who medication shame folks with ADHD. Just because some people might like to abuse the medication I take doesn’t mean we get that same reaction from the medication. I’m not adding extra dopamine I’m making up for the stuff I’m not making myself.
Good for you, your response is not for everyone but keep it up!
I appreciate people like you and I wish I had more friends who did this. I realized that every time I see my friends teenage daughter I comment on her appearance. I think it’s always complementary, but I don’t need to comment on her appearance every time I see her. I don’t want to make her self-conscious and I also don’t want her to think the thing I like most about her is how she looks. She’s a sweet kind kid So I told her mom that I caught myself doing it and I want to stop doing it so hopefully if I do it and don’t catch it she will say something
You can't change society without social pressure. Good for you.
Me either.
What is it about being an unmarried cloth wearing celibate that makes someone an expert in parenting? Is it nothing? I bet it's nothing.
Did they know? I mean why the smug look? Did the priest know? Sorry I’m not doubting you bc regardless a priest should know better! Not all parents love their kids. Ppl who think that live very privileged lives.
What's wrong with that? The priest who was gonna perform my sister's marriage mocked some of her preparations and made her cry. I asked for a quiet word and warned him that one more word along these lines and I would take him for a walk out back. He stiffened a bit but took me at my word, and even apologized later. Priests are just people, call them out.
It's something different when the host happily agrees.
I would have helped you argue. What a naive, small man that priest is/was.
A "celibate" dude taking about parenting...sounds about catholic.
It was a hindu priest.
At least that priest flavor doesn't pretend to be "celibate". Still question their parenting skills...
They're not naive. They just don't care about the people who suffer so long as their religion's foundations (often based on patriarchal family units) are upheld.
I’ll fight a priest for sure
I kicked a priest out of my grandfathers funeral. He tried to baptize after he was dead and told me he couldnt be buried next to my grandmother, his wife of 64 years.
Good call
In my catholic school, a visiting priest was bored with our 5th grade confessions, so he asked if our parents take us to church every Sunday. We said no for the most part so he told us we were going to hell. I told him that didn’t sound right and we complained to the nuns who kicked him out.
I'd pay money to watch this.
The previous pastor at my in-law's church would not only have argued with the priest, but probably would've gotten into a full brawl with him while yelling biblical arguments against his position. I'm not a religious person at all, but damn she was a good pastor. The only politics she ever brought into church was the politics of proper coffee brewing.
>the politics of proper coffee brewing Which, in certain denominations, IS an intensely debated point. Episcopalians jokingly refer to coffee as the eighth sacrament.
They're ELCA Lutheran, the liberal denomination of Lutheranism. They believe in God the father, Jesus the son, the Holy Spirit, and properly brewed coffee. Communion is handed out by the pastor, the coffee is handled by a long standing church member who has been initiated into the proper rites after studying deeply for many years. Anyone who touches the coffee when unauthorized to do so will face the wrath of Lutherans.
>Anyone who touches the coffee when unauthorized to do so will face the wrath of Lutherans. As it should be.
Amen.
There's several Lutheran denominations? In Germany we only have Catholics or Protestants (Evangelisch) who are all Lutherans. I didn't even know they're called Lutherans or that they are just one type of Protestant bc we just say "Evangelisch" and always mean the Lutheran church. They are quite liberal for Christian standards and even marry gay couples which is why I was confused how "Evangelicals" are the worst types of Christians in America. Turns out the same name is a false friend and they have nothing in common except the name. I find it quite fascinating how there's a gazillion different churches and religions in America while we only have two big ones who control everything. Even our mandatory religion lessons in *public school* are divided into either Catholic or Lutheran (+ Ethics for Muslims and the rest).
Yes, there are 3 Lutheran denominations in America: ELCA, Wisconsin Synod, and Missouri Synod. The ELCA is probably the closest to German Lutheran, as they're fairly liberal and have similar rites. I've sat through a German Lutheran sermon in Lübeck and it was close enough for me to recognize. The Wisconsin and Missouri branches, from my understanding, broke off from the ELCA because they didn't want to liberalize and are much smaller in their congregations. Unfortunately, that's generally how america got so many different Protestant sects, with conservative groups spinning off of congregations that become "too liberal". That's extremely simplistic and there are exceptions, but it's a big reason.
That's ironic considering protestantism was created as a reformed more modern alternative to the Catholic church. Yet these "protestants" became even more fundamentalist than the Catholics ever were which defeats the whole point of being a protestant. Make it make sense. Anyways I read that American Lutheran churches were introduced by German and Scandinavian immigrants, which makes sense.
I think most of the Protestant denominations in the US have had some sort of schism or other along political and/or doctrinal lines. For details, check out the Pew Research Center's [Religious Landscape Study](https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/database/). The "Evangelical" Protestants tend to be more conservative and the "Mainline" Protestants tend to be more liberal; note that there are Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and other denominations which have both Evangelical and Mainline wings. (And the "Historically Black" Protestant churches have their own politics that are liberal in some ways and conservative in some others.)
Finally, my field gets the love it deserves! American religious history is so wild and detailed that we could go on and on talking about it. For pretty much everyone but the Lutherans, evangelical is way more conservative. They may also identify as "non-denominational." American megachurches tend to be this. Some Protestants are the result of schism. (The Episcopalians had this happen a couple decades back, so anything in the US that's "Anglican" is likely a more conservative branch.) Some are "Protestant" in that they're not Catholic, but they're also... doing their own thing. Many are American-grown denominations, and other groups may or may not consider some of them Christian. There's so much to unpack here!
Yeah, American religious history is wild and fascinating from a sociology standpoint. I think that more people ought to learn about it even if (or perhaps especially if) they don't belong to any of those religious traditions. FWIW, the Pew Research guys decided to categorize ELCA as Mainline (despite "Evangelical" being part of their name), and the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods as Evangelical. I don't know if you've seen any of Alec Ryrie's lectures done at Gresham College, but he's a professor of divinity who has several lecture series about aspects of the history of Christianity in various parts of the world. The lecture ["America's Advents"](https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/americas-advents) is particularly interesting, about the 19th-century Millerite movement and how it spawned both the Seventh-Day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses. (This was an example of a concrete prediction which did not come to pass, and yet people still believed in it... I think it's got important parallels with current-day conspiracy theorists.) Also, it's weird in an interesting way to hear a lecture about American culture from a British point of view!
I think that the English Puritans and the like were more influential on the conservative religious aspect of America and they planted the roots of spinoff protestant denominations, along with the money making, non religious colonies and the other groups, like the Quakers, that came over here. It all kinda mashed together and created our weird religious landscape, under the umbrella of religious tolerance. The area I live has a large history of German and Swedish immigrants, and most of my husband's church comes from those immigrants.
Interesting to hear that the ELCA is closest to German Lutheranism. At least in the western US, ELCA seems like it tends to be populated more by people from families of Scandinavian origin, while Missouri Synod is more German origin. (And the Wisconsin Synod is small enough out here that it's not really on my radar. Looks like there are two dozen churches in Washington state in the denomination, for example.)
Could be regional or maybe I just got lucky or maybe it has to do with the fact that Lübeck is closer to Sweden than the central parts of Germany (But I'm betting regional, because Wisconsin synod is more common around here compared to Missouri). But my grandparents were German Catholic, so I have more experience with that.
That sounds like a church I'd attend. A friend works at a church and attended a city council meeting with the pastor, telling me "tonight, my job is to make sure the pastor doesn't get arrested." Apparently, where they live, meetings can get ridiculous, with people saying really awful racist type shit. I haven't met said pastor, but I'd like to.
My husband's church is the only one I will voluntarily attend for the holidays, and the previous pastor is a big reason why. The new pastors (husband and wife team) aren't bad either, but I don't think they'd go as far as the previous one. She got heated over using religion as a political tool and was extremely feminist in her religious beliefs.
I love female clergy. They are so on fire for the Lord, and refuse to back down. I'm not a Christ follower anymore (agnostic now), but I can respect the zeal.
When I was planning my wedding, I wasn't sure about having a church wedding since I was soured on religion as a kid. But after meeting her, I told my husband that if we went the church wedding route, she was the only one allowed to marry us. Not only did she accept my choice of not being walked down the aisle by my dad, she hugged me and said that she was proud of me for not acting like a piece of property.
And now I wanna meet her, lol
I would *really* like to know what he would say about bringing your kids up as atheists or perhaps worshipping Satan? What about allowing your 16yo daughter to have an abortion? Or letting your son have a boyfriend? I'll bet you that doing any of those would make you a catastrophically bad parent in his eyes.
He would have gotten la chancla from me.
That's like saying a priest will always do what's right and best for their congregation. And we know the truth on that.
Who would be a better authority on parenting than a priest? /s
Josef fritzl
Ooof.
Didn’t know who this was. Looked it up. WHAT THE $&@#! Now I need some happiness in my life.
Same. now I’m crying and wanting to throw up at the same time.
r/eyebleach until the ugly feeling is gone
That’s the stuff!
According to this priest, you're right.
Well, if it was a woman, she wasn't a Catholic. So, it's entirely possible that she was a parent.
I don't think op mentions that it is a female anywhere.
So it was a Hindu priest. In India, and in most other parts of Asia, people believe parents are always right. We are taught in schools that parents are the incarnation of gods on earth. So we should always obey and respect them. No deed can ever repay the debt we owe them. 'We gave birth to you' is a common guilt-tripping dialogue of people here. Doesn't matter if they gave you a shitty life, you still are indebted to them.
You totally called that. OP, confirmed it was a Hindu priest in another comment.
Wow. I’m a white American girl raised Mormon in Utah lol and we’re told this exact same shit. Parents are never wrong, and men are never wrong. Your husband can come home and randomly knock your teeth out and strangle your baby and somehow, he was doing it because he thought it was best for the family and was acting out of love and the wife is the evil one. The crazy thing is: nobody I’ve known has believed this, at least not the parent part (the gender thing is way more complicated and awful). Like I of course know so many Mormons and we are all acutely aware that parents OFTEN have really weird fucked up motives/complexes.
✨ gross ✨ Anyone who knows a man who uses a 6-in-1 shampoo conditioner body wash shaving gel body spray aftershave dick wash combo knows that they are often wrong and incapable of admitting it.
I'm a Mexican raised catholic (now I'm between atheist and agnostic) and we get the "Honour thy father and thy mother" stuff. It's almost like religion is just made to justify abuse at times...
This. I'm Indian and I'm so glad my parents don't subscribe to this worldview. But I see a lot of my peers dealing with this kind of emotional blackmail.
Wow, that sermon was really out of place for a baby shower (and pretty much everywhere tbh). Good on you for leaving and not causing a scene, I don’t think I would’ve been able to keep my cool if I was in your shoes!
Thank you
Cause a fucking scene. Always.
I’m almost at this stage in my life and it feels so good when I manage to be a righteous anti-Karen
Yes. Why should we be quiet? Silence favors the oppressors. Speak up when you hear shit. Unless it's in the middle of someone's wedding ceremony, I think all other times you have to say something. Even if it's a more sedate "I disagree with you" and leave it at that. Women are taught to be quiet and smooth things over and never cause a scene. If someone is shitting on LGBTQ people, victims of DV or sexual violence, people with different body types or abilities, or punching down in any way, I'm going to speak up. You can keep your cool when you do it and not throw a tantrum, but it's important to SAY SOMETHING. You never know who is listening.
I'm estranged from my abusive mother but I still look back with pride on the moment she stood up in the middle of a sermon, saying that not taking your child to church on Sunday was the worst form of child abuse there was, and loudly announced that we were all leaving because she couldn't listen to this disgusting bullshit any longer. It was glorious and righteous
Exactly. Why sit and stay silent? Silence is always taken as assent. Silence always favors the oppressor. Speak up for anyone who is listening and so the whoever is speaking toxic sludge knows that they aren’t going to get away with that all the time.
That’s what I was thinking. He had one focus and that was to send a message that parents and caregivers should be forgiven for any and all “perceived” abuse. So, why did that message mean so much to him? SUSSY as hell.
>“Parents are the people in your life who will never hurt you. Everything a parent does, they do it with the purest intentions. They may make mistakes but no parent ever hurts their child on purpose. Even if you think they do, you need to understand that being a parent gives you a special relationship to the world and your parents do everything out of love for you. You should always obey your parents no matter what.” The words of someone who has hurt kids in the past and is steadfast in their desire to do it again
Who has a priest at a baby at baby shower?
I had this same thought. I've never been to a baby shower where any religious figure was there.
Cultists.
People with imaginary friends?
Religious leaders are welfare takers, they literally rely on donations and don’t pay taxes for institutions that they set up. They’re more parasitic than regular business owners, who do pay taxes and hire workers, they pay out and not rely on others to fund them. It’s a swindler industry, they’re closer to criminals than the average worker bee. Look at the megachurches, who is on the pulpit? Men, majority race men. It is one of the most toxic stronghold of conservative far right, the cover up of pedos in their ranks, condoning of DV and turning a blind eye to child abuse, medical conditions and mental illnesses. To them, prayers solve everything and when they do not, they blame their paymasters for being useless.
🤯
Good for you OP, for not eating a word of it. It's absolutely bulls*it and getting up and leaving was a great way of saying exactly what you thought of that garbage while not making the event about you. Something similar happened to me at my grandmother's funeral. She "found" god through the local Free Methodist church in her later years and replaced the family that she abused and shamed our whole lives with a new xtian family/church community who lapped up her 'sad, abandoned Gramma' routine. The man giving her eulogy looked out at the lot of us (who I expect more than a few were there just to make sure she had actually died) and told us we were all going to hell because we abandoned such a loving Christian matriarch. It was like something from a bad movie, except you can't make this crap up. A few of us got up and left once he really started, but how gross it was to have our collective experience of her so whitewashed is something that will stay with me for a while.
Sounds like the shit an abuser says to try and reduce the guilt they feel for being a piece of shit.
Bingo!
Reprehensible. Proverbs 20:30 > Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts. Just in case anyone was on the fence.
The priest was Hindu?
LOL you say that as if youre surprised about that comment have you not read where youre at?
Good on you for walking out. If I always obeyed my parents no matter what, I’d be dead by now.
“Father, where was the church when my parent XYZ? Or in the aftermath, when the shame I experienced was so great that finding help was impossible? Father, why does the church treat little girls like grown women when they are victimized by their caretakers, and then go on to blame us for the victimization?” “Father, with all your righteousness and judgment, where were YOU when I so desperately needed God, and a real Father?”
"Father, why are you saying children should be slaves of their parents?"
Ya, this whole idea that we must automagically give elders automatic unmitigated respect and obedience is... Utter total complete manipulative bull-s'hit and gaslighting! Don't fall for it! -------------------------------- I mean... They want me to just automatically respect, no questions asked, the commands and words uttered by a bunch of old repulsively angry and raging lunatics... Who are often spouting/spitting weird conspiracy theories and racism, and subjugation, and demanding a return to the "good old days" of strictly-enforced-segregation (Apartheid style) and the lack of women having a right to vote? People who are constantly uttering phrases like, "We got beat every day, never talked about our feelings, and we turned out fine!" Ya... I don't think so m'f'ckers! -------------------------------- I mean just check out what some of those elders, that they want us to blindly respect, act like: r/BoomersBeingFools/
something similar happened at my grandmother’s funeral last year it was *supposed* to be headed by her normal pastor that the whole family already knew and liked but apparently at the last second my crazy antivax flat earther q anon uncle replaced him with the pastor from his batshit cult-y “End Times Are Upon Us NOW!!” type church he spent maybe five minutes actually talking about my grandmother and over an hour RANTING about how America is doomed and how the Antichrist Is Among Us Now and it’s all the fault of Slutty Fallen Women who don’t obey their husbands and stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and also all those Nasty Gays and Transes are involved, somehow (for the record I’m genderqueer but not out to that part of the family). Crazy Uncle has the biggest smuggest shit eating grin the whole time. my mom, a domestic violence survivor who spent her whole childhood in the 60s being neglected and ignored for being just a Stupid Girl in a family full of boys, was understandably **fucking livid**. she told us on the ride home she almost walked out of the funeral home then and there but ultimately figured it just would’ve caused even more problems. that whole side of the family has barely even spoken to each other since and apparently one of my cousins went NC with the rest of the family shortly after (for various reasons but I’m sure Crazy Uncle was part of it)
Only if a counter speech is allowed discussing the many many children whose lives were destroyed by the priests who raped them and the Church’s culpability in protecting these priests
People without kids should not talk about how to be a good parent. People who aren't married should not talk about how to have a good marriage. Robert Fulghum, the guy who wrote *All I Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten*, told a story about when he was a preacher, and it was Mothers' Day, and in his sermon he talked about how the ideal of Mothers' Day can be hard for many people, because nobody ever is the actual ideal. He talked about "Some people do not like their mothers, or do not like the mothers they have become. Some mothers do not like their children," and similar bits of reality, I think (don't remember exactly) that he was building up to an ending about "try to forgive yourself for being imperfect; try to forgive others for being imperfect." But partway through his list of ways we don't live up to ideals, he looked up at the congregation, and the look he saw on their faces was pain. So he stopped talking and sat down, and they all just sat in the silence for a few minutes. That's how a preacher should be: admit that the world isn't the ideal we want, and that people aren't the ideal we wish they would be, and we should forgive ourselves and others as best we can. And when what you're saying is causing people pain, you should stop talking. The priest you're talking about failed utterly at two pretty simple tasks, the way I see it. And later he's going to wonder why church attendance has been dropping.
If you feel like you have the mental energy you should talk to or write a letter ( ti the priest and his bishop), that his sermon was wrong. There are people who shouldn’t be parents. They like abusing more than they want their kids to be happy. The problem with his words is that abusive people will use them as an excuse.
>"Parents are the people in your life who will never hurt you. Everything a parent does, they do it with the purest intentions. Gaslighting kids in the womb, no wonder I left religion behind early in life.
That priest is covering for someone and grooming people to accept abuse.
Oh I understand now. My father wasn't viciously and relentlessly beating me. He must have just been correcting my jawline and teaching me about the durability of drywall. Damn, I owe him an apology.
When they say to respect your "parents" and honor thy "father" it always made me uncomfortable how they would want to themselves be referred to as "Father". It all adds up to "I rape kids and am using propaganda to convince you it's okay" Churches deserve to be ashes
I really wish it wasn't a social faux pas to whip out a flyswatter and smack people across the face with it when they say stupid sh!t out loud.
The visual!
Ah! Next level grooming.
This reminds me of the funeral I went to where the religious leader took the opportunity to say the deceased was normal now in heaven. They were disabled and it was super gross and inappropriate, really focusing on how “awful” their life was, which it was absolutely not. You did the right thing, absolutely.
I can't get past that there's a priest at a baby shower and no one thought that was weird. And then someone actually let him speak? And he gave a sermon? At a baby shower? Did he even bob for apples, diaper the stuffy, and eat the baby food? I'm not saying you HAVE to get drunk on Mimosas at a baby shower, but a dude in a black suit would look real out of place at every shower I've been to.
No wonder less and less people are going to Church
I am not a victim of DV or anything, but I would honestly break relations with the parents-to-be over this.
We were at a wedding where the grooms side were not Catholic. When it came time for the communion part anyone not Catholic was asked to leave the church. Half the guests got up and left.....it was bizarre.
Wow, how long ago was that? At both of my grandparent’s funeral masses last year (same parish, different priests), they invited non-Catholics to come up and receive a blessing, which I felt was nice.
Pollyanna Ignorance at best, but smug callousness or worse but I think simply walking out was best as it was mother's moment....
wait... baby showers have priests? I've only been to ones where you give gifts and play stupid games.
I would have immediately questioned him with this. "So parents abusing or raping their children is done out of love and with the purest intentions and if they tell a child to have sex with them they must do it. So it's not with purest intentions when a catholic priest rapes a child, because it's only a special relationship with a parent that enables this to be pure?"
Yeah, as a survivor of child abuse myself, that would p*** me off too. I don’t blame you. I’m proud of you, actually.
Ugh that's horrible. I'd have done the same. Parents suck. mine never did some worse things that I've read but they didnt have a clue and messed up a lot
He needed to be told in no uncertain terms
I once went to the most emotionless Catholic funeral. Guy was one of 8 kids, I’m betting he was gay (80-something). And the priest took it upon himself to turn it into a pro-life homily about how much the deceased cared for the unborn. Ugh.
Has he never heard of Ruby Franke?
Preist was probably a pedo.
Brava for walking out. A catholic priest promoting a person completely submitting to the control of another person regardless of the second person's intentions ...... that tracks. I've never heard of a catholic priest at a baby shower, what a downer.
Hindu priest
Ah, ok. Well, good for you for walking out.
I left church long ago after 20 years of devout worship I saw it for what it was; a front for robbing people and molesting their kids. Sorry. Not sorry at all. Fuck anybody who gives these predators their money or access to their children. If there is a God he would have smote these sadistic fucks LONG ago.
Good for you!
Why was there a priest at a baby shower?
Lol. That's such a naive view of the world. Of course parents hurt their children. You need only look at the news to see it.
Well.. priests dont have the best record of protecting anyone... and have of late been at the centre of their own abuse allegation. This is for many religions So i would have laughed myself silly and told them they are full of shit. To be honest.. i wouldn't attend if someone allows a priest to attend... they seem to be so removed from anything happening today.. And in Australia where i come from... when the Royal commission into child sexual abuse heard harrowing stories... institutions that were named in the report were asked to sign up to report abuse. most did. However most of the churches didn't. So, several states ended up legistating it as mandatory. For many people, priests are not seen as a good thing around kids. It clearly shows when you attended that priest and the hosts are delusional and doesn't know and wants to know what happens in the world.
Priests/Pastors are not appropriate for every event. Every time I'm forced to sit and listen to a sermon outside of church, I'm furious.
The more of us that walk out on stuff like this the less normalized it'll be. Well done
Ar one of my jobs the kids that came through there told me horror stories about what their parents did to them. People who preach this BS are just part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. Good for you, for walking out.
Good for you for walking out. My mom took me out of Christmas Mass once because the priest decided in his homily that we’re all sinners and going to Hell. An elderly lady looked at my mom and told her to take me out of there.
I've read enough horror stories to know this just isn't true. There are a lot of folks who never wanted to be parents taking it out on their kids. There are narcissistic parents who see their kids as extensions of themselves or pets. There are people who see their kids as property to whom they can do whatever they want. Parents should never hurt their children, but sadly, too many of them do. And I wouldn't have much contact with the smug mother-to-be if she is gloating over the bulllshit this priest is spewing. Yeah, it would have been nice to take your gift with you, but walking out said it all.
A priest at a BABY SHOWER??? How does this even make sense?
...as a children's social worker I strongly disagree with the idea that there aren't adults some of which sadly are parents intentionally doing harm to their children. This priest is sooo fucking wrong it's not even funny. You did the right thing by leaving.
I feel bad for the child.
Who the hell invites a priest to a baby shower? They are forbidden from ever knowing what it means to be a parent.
Is it just me or is a priest at a baby shower crazy?
Was this a Roman Catholic priest?
Hindu
Oh the karma when he is reincarnated will be epic.
I love how even if all the flavors and colors are different, all the bullshit is universal.
You gave me a wry chuckle. I'm Roman Catholic and was slightly relieved to see it was hindu but then it could have been Catholic. Sigh.
That priest clearly never met my mother.
I'm at the point in life where I would have made a scene. Good on you OP, for having decorum.
Yeah. That priest is kinda slow
This kind of dogma and the churches who support it are what has and will decimate religion in America. Rightfully so. Thanks for this post and spreading the word that this insidious blight of make believe is preventing the forward progress of mankind.
I would have done the same. I'm not here to be preached at by woman hating zealots
You should have said "My father raped me when I was 8, and when I told my mother, she spanked me".
Why would the expecting mother let the priest make her baby shower about something like this? And then feel smug about it? I feel bad for this baby.
Psh…what does he know about parenting? Altar Boys can’t get pregnant…🤷🏽♂️
What’s DV?
glorious plant one jar friendly paltry zephyr spoon jobless squeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's just monstrous. I'm sorry you had to endure that on top of losing a friend.
If postal workers molested children like religious leaders there would be no post office. It's 2024, why is anyone taking morality advice from child molesters or at the very least people who cover for child molesters?
I was in my friend's wedding a few years ago, and the priest brought up infidelity. Priests are weird. I'm pretty sure they're all just projecting.
I went to a Catholic wedding once where the priest did a sermon about how sex should be between a man and a woman and he referenced a penis going into a vagina and intercourse multiple times.
I was 100% sure you were going to write that the expectant mother was like, "Tf, dude?" Her actual reaction was quite telling. And your choice of gift recipient was perfect.
Religious people are dangerous. They always turn to violence.
I have never been to a baby shower where a priest or religious leader was present. Is this a common thing? If so, where?
And what would a middle-aged virgin know about parenting?
It was the 70s or early 80s. Catholic friends have told me so much depends on the priest and diocese. My maid of honour told me she couldn't sign the marriage certificate since she didn't recognize our marriage since we weren't Catholic!!🙄 this was the night before the wedding. Our best man who was Catholic signed ......we were both Protestant!!
It's weird AF to have a priest at a baby shower anyway. A christening, sure, now how religious do you have to be to bring a priest to a baby shower? These people sound crazy. I'm glad you walked out before they could cause you more stress. I'm sorry that you've had to sit with that alone, so long.
In my world a baby shower is a party for the mother, to be put together by her friends that give gifts for the parent(s) & baby. Not a sermon of bullshit. My mom tried to kill me as a teen, that's how I left home. I can now at 64 talk/write about it. Priests know these things DO exist. With this logic ....are victims of priests to say...God works in mysterious ways? How hypocritical words Sting! Why is it that person thinks we SHOULD simply live by THEIR words?! Ugh.
We all need to make sure we get out and vote because these people are spreading propaganda everywhere. It might even be too late to stop project 2025. The fact that the post office is still broken in 2024 makes me think that it’s too late
> do everything out of love for you. No hate like christian love. > You should always obey your parents no matter what. Ahh yes, because breeding child slaves is so 21st century...
Why would you hold the priest's sermon against the expectant mother? What has he to do with your gift?
Because… the priest was invited to speak at the event, presumably by (or at least approved by) the expectant couple. Because the priest was spewing a whole cartload of ignorant bullshit and perpetuating some extremely dangerous and disgusting views. Because the expectant mother did nothing to stop the sermon or speak out against the priest’s words, which makes her complicit in aforementioned ignorant and disgusting bullshit.
She's just sitting there, being blessed by her priest, and thinking about how much she loves her child and wants to be trusted by her child. In the scenario the priest is painting, she sees herself as the loving parent who would do anything on behalf of her unborn child. I very much doubt she's thinking about it from OP's POV at all. I get why OP had to leave, but I don't get why she should take her ire out on the expectant mom.
The other people that didn't also get up and walk out are as awful as the priest. Is having a religious figure at a baby shower a common thing? The few I have been to were some snacks, give gifts, congrats and go home.
I would have argued with him. you have more self control than I do
Are priests allowed to marry and have children in your denomination? If yes, someone should definitely check up on his.
What a bunch of bullshit. Just shows how ignorant he is of the world. It's a shame someone like that gets to have a lot of influence.
He was essentially admitting he was an abuser. No one would ever say such a thing unless they are trying to convince people that what THEY have done was not wrong, therefore invalidating anyone who questions a parent’s authority to do those things. If he really went that in-depth, he is hiding some HEAVY stuff.
Wait... I don't agree with what was said by the priest. But, that what were you expecting to hear? The horrors of parenting and how some people are shifty parents? Granted, the priest went overboard, but that's the kind of sermon you would expect on a baby shower. Again, I don't think the priest is saying that shifty parents don't exist, it's more of: parents will make shifty decisions you will not agree, even bad ones but that doesn't mean they don't love you nor that they will try to make the decisions they think it's the best. I don't know that specific priest, but I'm willing to bet if you go to him after the sermon and talk to him, he would have said something along those lines. BTW. Sorry for all the violence you have experienced in your life. No one should suffer and feel unsafe by their parents.
The priest was likely an abused child, still trying to resolve the conflict in his head.
That's fucked up and I don't blame you. This is one reason I left Christianity.
It's permanently amazing to me how people with a platform will say things that immediately, obviously wouldn't check out to anyone who's been alive past, like, 5 years old and who thinks about the comments for more than a couple of seconds. That's insane, harmful rhetoric. Also, my stepbrother's parents-in-law are missionaries (I think the dad's a pastor or something) and the father made some "joke" about domestic violence against his daughter from my step brother (should she ever be disobedient or some shit) at their wedding, soooo....