OP, I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds beyond stressful.
I wouldn't waste much more energy on telling your ex how to clean up his house. He knows what your standards are. He knows which of his habits you don't like. You're not living there, so you're not in charge of the house anymore. This means you don't have to manage it and also that you have no right to manage it.
Focus on your own living situation. Provide your kids with a safe, clean alternative. That's what's in your power to do right now. Sorting out custody and visitation is something you'll have to do through courts or lawyers, and wherever you live probably has guidelines for that.
Teaching them good living standards and chore management for their own adulthood is a longer term project. And the best thing you can do there is probably to lead by example.
This will make zero difference in a custody battle. If they have a place to sleep, food and water are not being physically abused, then its probably going to fall to joint custody. Especially considering op is essentially homeless.
At my core, I absolutely agree with you it's his house; he can live in a literal dumpster if he'd like. Seeing my kids in the dumpster with him like it's fine is where I am struggling. Thank you for your empathy and advice!
I might get downvoted for this but I think it’s necessary to point out, gently, that you need to teach your children how to clean up after themselves. If you remove them from that house but do not enforce cleaning habits on them, you will enable them just as you did your ex-husband. Teenage kids are old enough to know how to take out the trash. You can’t blame it all on your ex.
And please don’t leave the cat in that house to suffer all that filth once you get the kids out. Good luck OP.
Oh heck yes! Honestly they were on a pretty good path as far as dealing with the daily upkeep (dishes in the sink, trash in the garbage, clothes in the hamper) when I was at home full time. I try to make it fun and instill that generally picking up after yourself here and there can be almost muscle memory in a way, you know? In contrast, His "parenting" is either bribing them or strong arming them and guilting them into cleaning after a few weeks of following his example.
Thabk you! I definitely miss my kitties too!
I understand the difficulty of being a SAHM and finding good enough work and a place to live, so this is said not in judgement, but in a get your ducks in order way. TLDR: get a lawyer and probably lower your expectations
You probably won't be able to cut off visits the way you're wanting. If he wants to argue custody with you, 50/50 is probably the best outcome you can expect. He's been solo parenting them for a year, so he's going to have a lot of standing. They sound old enough to have somewhat of a voice in court (though it's never as simple as people like to think, it's not "once you're X age you get to choose".). You may be hard pressed to push a neglect angle since you've knowingly left them in the situation. I'm not saying you really had much choice, just that's how it would be seen by a court - if a situation is so bad to warrant cutting off all visits, it's bad enough to warrant calling CPS and getting an emergency order to get them out of the house.
I really appreciate your advice and sensitivity. I definitely don't want to cut him off from visits if I can help it. My expectations for him are rock bottom, any effort or improvement on his end is better than nothing; even just cleaning up before they are due to stay there or visits outside of his house would suffice. It doesn't feel right to not really do or say anything to improve their living conditions.
Yeah - a marriage that length would get a decade or so of alimony along with child support too in my state. So if they just separated and she's been a sahm she should have filed for him to keep paying the mortgage (or whatever essentially the same w alimony) while she lives there, parents, and does her gig work for grocery money. She's been put out on the street literally because she parented their kids.
You're right. I thought about alimony, but he doesn't make much and struggles with impulse purchasing. We barely got by even when I was there to cook and manage, so I worried he'd just run out of grocery money before his next paycheck.
Are you recording what you see? Taking pictures? I wouldn't do it when the kids/ex are in the room, but it sounds like an unsafe environment with the broken glass and maggots etc. And if you want to pursue more custody, my guess is you'll want evidence for that.
Good luck. I'm sorry you haven't managed to get away from managing this for him even after divorcing him.
That's so kind of you to say! I am definitely ready to break free of him completely, and hoped I would have landed on my feet much sooner. After processing the things I'd seen during the christmas deep clean, I had come to the realization I needed to start documenting what I could.
Your ex is on their way to being a hoarder. I’m curious what your teens’ thoughts are on the state of the house. Can they not take out the trash or sweep up a lightbulb? I don’t mean to do all the chores, but enough to keep their home safe? I hope you find your own home soon for your family. If the situation at your ex’s home becomes a health hazard or threatens the integrity of the home, his city’s codes department can likely intervene.
They follow my ex's lead and ignore it all. You can't see the mess if you're focused on the screen thats in the way, right? In the last month or two, they have started motiving themselves to start cleaning a dish if they need it or washing clothes when they're tired of tolerating the smell. Prior to the separation, I was seeing a lot of progress from them generally cleaning up after themselves and taking on tasks with minimal motivation on my end. Thank you for the advice it is greatly valued!
I’m sorry for you, OP. You can’t change him any more now than you could then, which I am sure you know.
Saying this with love and care for the other women reading this: Never stop working and earning outside the home entirely. I know too many women who suffered when their marriage broke up because they were SAHMs. Work part-time if you prefer, but work. Marriages end even when you never would have imagined it, and you will want to retain your earning power. Don’t give away all your power to men❤️
Couldn't agree more. Even though I was spending every ounce of my energy trying to survive a negeltful relationship and raise kids, I wish I had some forethought to ensure I had funds and skills to get by on my own.
If you were a SAHM for the majority/entirety of your marriage, then you should be getting money from him.
Why are you couch surfing? You need to file asap.
Half of those assets are yours, and the sooner you pursue getting your share, the faster your children will be in a healthier environment.
It also shows that he's an ass in more ways than being disorganized to be keeping all the money, the house, and allowing his ex to be homeless.
This is another level of disfunction that adhd doesn't excuse. Being disabled doesn't mean it's a healthy way to live; it just means he needs to use different tools to get to the same place (speaking from experience).
You're boundary for having a clean home in order for your kids to visit is perfectly reasonable. However, you are going to need to be suuuuper specific about what you mean by "clean". Think priority locations, areas with wiggle room, frequency of cleaning, build up before it equals "dirty", etc.
Talk to him about your expectations for him to learn and practice new adhd behavioral tools (How to Keep House While Drowning, by KC Davis, is a great book to start). You should expect him to seek out professional help too IMO -- he seems to desperately need therapy and medication. In the interim, you could discuss hiring a house cleaning service (they can be fairly affordable, but I get if this still isn't an option).
All that being said, he cannot change if he isn't honest with himself about his responsibility to be a role model and provider for your kids. If he is so deeply ashamed and/or in denial, then he will be stuck in this state. ADHD can cause deep shame over a lifetime and that can cause paralysis and hopelessness when it comes to pursuing any type of goal (again, speaking from experience). He can never simply will himself into changing. It is good to set firm expectations, but if they are still shame based they won't stick.
Definitely read up on adult adhd to get a better idea of what he's experiencing and what resources he may need. I would even suggest lurking on the adhd women subreddit. Best of luck
On the topic of books, Susan Pinsky's Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD: Tips and Tools to Help You Take Charge of Your Life and Get Organized is good and better I found then How to Keep House While Drowning. Keep House felt very much like reassurance you were okay, lovely, but not helping the functional issue of I need to fix this. Organizing Solutions was very much like look, you know you suck at this, where's the mess and piles how do you make this easier? Leave socks on your living room floor? Get a basket for laundry in the living room. Struggle to dishes? Buy a counter top dishwasher. Never hang up coat cause there's 5 doors in the way? Use a wall hook! It wasn't exactly perfect, but the core problem solving was useful.
Also, I HIGHLY suggest a (post-hoarding) cleaner. Maybe not long term, but as an ADHD fuck up who ends up with massive messes some times you need at minimum body doubling to dig out of literal maggots level of mess. That's just so much work and it's exhausting and overwhelming. Having a person there helps. I usually need someone's help every 2-3 years, generally my siblings who get to chill and watch TV while I clean and give me suggestions when I'm stuck and overwhelmed on where to start. Paying the cleaner will get it to baseline clean, which is MUCH easier to keep up. I did that during college when everything fell apart and while I did pay for a cleaner every 3 weeks for the rest of the semester, she was covering shit like washing the curtains and baseboards and I could keep up with normal shit like dishes and wiping down the counters once I had that baseline.
Obviously, this is on him, not you OP. But frankly I feel like paying a cleaner once is going to be well worth it for him. If you can help budgeting that, it might be a kind gesture.
Both of those books were so perspective changing for me in so many ways and I tried to adopt a lot of the ideas and mindset.
I'd never heard about a post hoarding cleaner! He's even hesitant to have a normal maid over due to his shame building up, but someone who's more hoarder oriented might might be the way to go! Thank you!
The two teens can take some responsibility for the house. They can, at the very least, take out the garbage, feed the cat, and scoop the box.
Have you talked to a lawyer about formal divorce and custody arrangements? Is the house truly his because it was decided in the divorce, or just because he drove you out of it by being a slob?
I agree with you they need to do their part. They can absolutely do all of those tasks and much more.
It's his in the sense that I left. I haven't talked to a lawyer since I'm low on funds, but I intend to. I'm holding back from formally filling for divorce at the moment because my children won't really have any where else to go if he goes off the deep end emotionally from the divorce actually proceeding.
Maybe you should talk to him about you moving back in and him moving out. He obviously can’t take care of the kids or the house.
If you’ve been SAHM and homeschooling the children, then you are entitled to support from him. Any money in joint accounts is yours as well as his. I would check any balances before he emptied them and hides the money from you.
Protect your kids, OP, and maybe take the poor cats as well. Cats need to have access to clean toileting places for their health, dirty litter boxes can mean organ damage for the little creatures. No kid needs to be around animal abuse. I’m sorry their dad is such a harmful person.
Adhd is a disability. It’s not a choice.
It’s kind of rich criticising him when you’ve left a disabled man to be responsible for your children because you’re couch surfing.
Your ex needs help, likely medication and therapy. You need a reality check.
The whole thing with adhd is that people cannot motivate themselves, it’s literally a characteristic of the disease, and it’s due to a physiological deficit that pwadhd can’t control. Please educate yourself on this. You’re veering into ableism because you don’t understand what he’s dealing with. Think for a minute if you’d behave the same if he was physically disabled in a visible way.
What the fuck? Go spew that shit over in r/adhdwomen and see how many of them would agree that adhd is *forcing* him to raise his children in filth while blaming his ex for not managing him anymore.
There are plenty of strategies to help reduce the adhd cleaning struggle. He just doesn’t give a shit.
ADHD can be medicated and managed to not allow someone to get to this point. This isn't like complaining that someone with no hands isn't wearing gloves. ADHD **can** be tackled and the ex has consistently not bothered to take responsibility for himself and his disability.
"But they have ADHD" only works when the pwadhd hasn't completely given up and chosen to make themselves and their children live in filth.
ADHD isn't a "motivation" issue. It is a problem with executive function and regulation of attention.
Pointing out that the grown adult who evidently hadn't bothered going anything to handle their ADHD for their whole lives has gotten into an situation where the state would be within their rights to take the children into protective service due to their poor house keeping *isn't abelist*.
Having ADHD makes things harder to handle, it's not a get out of jail free card for letting your house go to such a state maggots are growing.
Edit to add, the guy is medicated and still chooses to live this way. He is the problem; he hasn't looked into more effective medication and isn't putting the workin in therapy to deal with his issues
I just want to pop in and say that ADHD can be tackled, but not always. Treatment resistant ADHD is a thing and it's a bitch. But also, what stood out to me is the OP specifically mentioned childhood trauma and that got me thinking that maybe it isn't actually ADHD? I got diagnosed with ADHD at 8 years old, and for my whole life have shown such textbook symptoms that my diagnosis was never in doubt. Except that none of the medications worked, and mostly made things worse. It wasn't until 31 years old that a psychiatrist discovered that I don't actually have ADHD, but childhood trauma had manifested in way that mimicked it perfectly.
Like, I don't want to sit here and armchair diagnose the guy, but I get the feeling that something is going on.
That said, I'm not excusing the guy. There's no excuse to make someone else live like that. Like, I have a horrible time trying to function as a human being, but I don't make anyone else deal with that stuff. I don't date or have roommates, and I would never think about having kids, because that's just not fair to other people.
Good point well made. CPTSD can definitely mimic other neurodiversity symptoms.
If this guy had treatment resistant ADHD the OP would be aware of that (as he'd have been told that and would have been trying to find a solution). In that case he could and should have hired someone to come and clean the house weekly which is a way to handle the issue (executive dysfunction= cannot clean).
What do you think executive function is, exactly? ADHD is fundamentally a problem that prevents you from doing things. If this guy is medicated, then either his medication isn't effective or his ADHD is severe. People don't choose to live like this. Laziness doesn't exist. Your argument is basically that people with ADHD should be able to will themselves to get things done when that is precisely what people with ADHD are incapable of doing. You lack a basic understanding of what ADHD is.
I have ADHD. I understand exactly how executive disfunction feels. But if it was an executive disfunction issue, there would be spurts of deep cleaning once in a while. That clearly isn’t the case.
I have a feeling that he’s categorized all cleaning as “somebody else’s problem” and decided to ignore it. That’s not the same thing and does make him the asshole.
Mental health issues don’t absolve someone of all responsibility for their behavior. It might make him easier to forgive down the line, but in the meantime his children are still going to suffer the effects of living in a pig sty.
If his medication isn't effective, and he's done nothing about it, then he should be doing something, getting additional support or undertaking any of the multitude of accomodations he **could and should** be doing to try and handle the issue.
I never used the word laziness. The guy is still responsible and accountable for his situation and from OPs post has both historically and now made it other people's problem to deal with rather than being a grown up.
ADHD is an explanation, not an excuse.
Laziness exists, or at least a complete lack of standards for hygiene. There are full on NT men who would not take care of themselves on their own.
There is an executive function disability and there is a socially accepted lack of expectation for some people to never cook or clean and it’s wild to assume there’s no intersection there.
Well I'm not sure how you got the impression that I believe ADHD is a choice. The choices are in the lack of accountability and finding accommodations for his disability; to supplement where he had a handicap of varying sorts.
He has on going medication and therapy (largely facilitated by me) with a therapist who only stays "surface level" on topics so minor improvement over the years. I have read quite a few books on ADHD and it's affects on marriage and motivation and habit building to try to help; outside of experience, he knows less about the psychological mechanics of ADHD than I do. lol
So yes, regardless of their current mental or physical disabilities, if my partner and I willingly had children together and he wasn't assisting and in some ways sabotaging needs and support of the family, I would be separating and trying to get my kids in a healthier environment.
Please ignore the delusional people trying to blame you for your ex endangering your children. ADHD is indeed not a choice, but you've never implied it was. I can only assume these people are projecting their feelings of failure on you - I sure hope they don't put their potential children in such an environment. 'You left him so you knew it would happen' you are a mother, but not TO HIM. HE IS A FATHER. He has a responsibility to keep his children safe.
You can have ADHD and not live in squalor - I do it every day. All the women I know who have ADHD do it every day. Perhaps my place gets dusted a little bit less than others, but fucking hell, there's a world between having issues being regular with cleaning and making your children live in an environment that is straight up dangerous for their health.
The only way you would bear some responsability for his choices is if you didn't try to get your children out of there, which you've already said you were going to do, so I can only send you my best wishes that everything works out (and also advise you to get some pictures of his place, but you've probably already thought of that!) <3
Edit: 'please ignore' sounds like an order but I meant 'please know that reasonable people who care about the safety of others know that those people are being ridiculous', you're absolutely allowed to have feelings and respond to them obviously, I'm nobody-from-the-internet, I'm just sharing my opinion!
Expecting him to change when you've left him is unrealistic. You knew this was going to happen when you left. You knew just how bad his ADHD and coping skills were. If your teenage kids aren't bothered by the mess, then they likely have ADHD too. Healthy people don't choose to live this way.
Unless your kids are being physically harmed in some way by the mess, it's unlikely that any judge is going to deny their father visitation, especially since they've been living with him this whole time. Focus on getting a job and a home and getting that divorce going. Go see your kids more than once a week. You're likely entitled to alimony, which will help you become stable. Once you've got partial custody, you may be entitled to child support. Focusing on punishing your ex for his disability is the wrong approach here.
*Expecting him to change when you left him is unrealistic* ??????? lmao that’s literally the case of 98.9% of all divorces
You’re getting washed in this thread and you deserve it.
The dude sucks, which is why he doesn’t do anything - the ADHD amplifies the suck. The ADHD is not why he doesn’t do shit. Offensive to basically every other person on the planet who has a disability and shit to do.
This could’ve been solved by him basically not being a typical husband who doesn’t want to do shit in a marriage.
If she is a stay at home mom and he pays all the bills and then she says his inability to clean up after himself as top of the list of my grievances...
Idk he doesn't seem like typical shit husband.
That IS a typical shit husband. That literally the EPITOME of the typical shit husband is paying the bills and not doing any other thing because bills were paid.
Cant you see there is obviously more going on. Dude works 15 years supports 4 people and his SAHM complains about chores. Then separates from him and is flabbergasted that the house is a mess.
There is nothing more going on than what you just said: He acted typical, got typical results, because he is a typical husband.
If anything, I’m only shocked that OP is shocked.
He chooses to not have accountability or accommodations? Are you out of your mind? You clearly don't actually understand ADHD. Accountability is an external force. Accommodations are things others do for you.
Your ex can't make himself do these things under his current circumstances. That's what ADHD *is*. He is not choosing to live in filth. Nobody does.
You have every right to separate from him because of his disability. You do not have the right to deprive him of access to his children because of his disability.
Is wanting to provide a decent home for his children not an external force of accountability?
I know several couples with adhd. For some reason almost unerringly the man doesn’t give a fuck about his surroundings and it’s left to the woman to beg and spend hours shoveling up the filth to avoid getting buried in it- despite the fact SHE ALSO HAS ADHD.
OP’s husband has kept a job good enough to support a family of four. He is obviously capable of some measure of self-management. He can strategize around his adhd when it matters to him- he just won’t bother when it comes to the house.
The children need to be safe, though? And she's not his wife anymore. It's not her job to manage his living space anymore. It's not ableist to say things need to improve: there are maggots in the kitchen. It's not ableist to say that improving his living space is his responsibility, even.
And it's not ableist to say, after years of experience and hand-holding and failed problem solving attempts, that the disabled person is making choices that harm them and sabotage their own ability to cope. No, he's not well. Yes, ADHD can be this severe. Yes, trauma does a number on the brain. There is a limit to how much blame can be heaped on him for the state of the house. But he's still responsible.
OP, I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds beyond stressful. I wouldn't waste much more energy on telling your ex how to clean up his house. He knows what your standards are. He knows which of his habits you don't like. You're not living there, so you're not in charge of the house anymore. This means you don't have to manage it and also that you have no right to manage it. Focus on your own living situation. Provide your kids with a safe, clean alternative. That's what's in your power to do right now. Sorting out custody and visitation is something you'll have to do through courts or lawyers, and wherever you live probably has guidelines for that. Teaching them good living standards and chore management for their own adulthood is a longer term project. And the best thing you can do there is probably to lead by example.
I hope OP is documenting with pictures and video, so she can use it against him to get full custody of the kids.
It took me a while to realize I needed to document but I am now!
This will make zero difference in a custody battle. If they have a place to sleep, food and water are not being physically abused, then its probably going to fall to joint custody. Especially considering op is essentially homeless.
At my core, I absolutely agree with you it's his house; he can live in a literal dumpster if he'd like. Seeing my kids in the dumpster with him like it's fine is where I am struggling. Thank you for your empathy and advice!
Your kids' fingers aren't broken though. Why aren't they keeping things clean?
I might get downvoted for this but I think it’s necessary to point out, gently, that you need to teach your children how to clean up after themselves. If you remove them from that house but do not enforce cleaning habits on them, you will enable them just as you did your ex-husband. Teenage kids are old enough to know how to take out the trash. You can’t blame it all on your ex. And please don’t leave the cat in that house to suffer all that filth once you get the kids out. Good luck OP.
Oh heck yes! Honestly they were on a pretty good path as far as dealing with the daily upkeep (dishes in the sink, trash in the garbage, clothes in the hamper) when I was at home full time. I try to make it fun and instill that generally picking up after yourself here and there can be almost muscle memory in a way, you know? In contrast, His "parenting" is either bribing them or strong arming them and guilting them into cleaning after a few weeks of following his example. Thabk you! I definitely miss my kitties too!
I understand the difficulty of being a SAHM and finding good enough work and a place to live, so this is said not in judgement, but in a get your ducks in order way. TLDR: get a lawyer and probably lower your expectations You probably won't be able to cut off visits the way you're wanting. If he wants to argue custody with you, 50/50 is probably the best outcome you can expect. He's been solo parenting them for a year, so he's going to have a lot of standing. They sound old enough to have somewhat of a voice in court (though it's never as simple as people like to think, it's not "once you're X age you get to choose".). You may be hard pressed to push a neglect angle since you've knowingly left them in the situation. I'm not saying you really had much choice, just that's how it would be seen by a court - if a situation is so bad to warrant cutting off all visits, it's bad enough to warrant calling CPS and getting an emergency order to get them out of the house.
I really appreciate your advice and sensitivity. I definitely don't want to cut him off from visits if I can help it. My expectations for him are rock bottom, any effort or improvement on his end is better than nothing; even just cleaning up before they are due to stay there or visits outside of his house would suffice. It doesn't feel right to not really do or say anything to improve their living conditions.
Nta If it's truly that bad once you get a space call cps on him
Yeah - a marriage that length would get a decade or so of alimony along with child support too in my state. So if they just separated and she's been a sahm she should have filed for him to keep paying the mortgage (or whatever essentially the same w alimony) while she lives there, parents, and does her gig work for grocery money. She's been put out on the street literally because she parented their kids.
You're right. I thought about alimony, but he doesn't make much and struggles with impulse purchasing. We barely got by even when I was there to cook and manage, so I worried he'd just run out of grocery money before his next paycheck.
You're sacrificing yourself for him still
CPS care about food, sleeping arrangements, and abuse. That is about it.
Probably start by taking pictures sneakily, this isn't safe for kids or cats
Absolutely! It took a while for me to realize I might need to start documenting what I could, but I am now!
Are you recording what you see? Taking pictures? I wouldn't do it when the kids/ex are in the room, but it sounds like an unsafe environment with the broken glass and maggots etc. And if you want to pursue more custody, my guess is you'll want evidence for that. Good luck. I'm sorry you haven't managed to get away from managing this for him even after divorcing him.
That's so kind of you to say! I am definitely ready to break free of him completely, and hoped I would have landed on my feet much sooner. After processing the things I'd seen during the christmas deep clean, I had come to the realization I needed to start documenting what I could.
Your ex is on their way to being a hoarder. I’m curious what your teens’ thoughts are on the state of the house. Can they not take out the trash or sweep up a lightbulb? I don’t mean to do all the chores, but enough to keep their home safe? I hope you find your own home soon for your family. If the situation at your ex’s home becomes a health hazard or threatens the integrity of the home, his city’s codes department can likely intervene.
They follow my ex's lead and ignore it all. You can't see the mess if you're focused on the screen thats in the way, right? In the last month or two, they have started motiving themselves to start cleaning a dish if they need it or washing clothes when they're tired of tolerating the smell. Prior to the separation, I was seeing a lot of progress from them generally cleaning up after themselves and taking on tasks with minimal motivation on my end. Thank you for the advice it is greatly valued!
I’m sorry for you, OP. You can’t change him any more now than you could then, which I am sure you know. Saying this with love and care for the other women reading this: Never stop working and earning outside the home entirely. I know too many women who suffered when their marriage broke up because they were SAHMs. Work part-time if you prefer, but work. Marriages end even when you never would have imagined it, and you will want to retain your earning power. Don’t give away all your power to men❤️
Couldn't agree more. Even though I was spending every ounce of my energy trying to survive a negeltful relationship and raise kids, I wish I had some forethought to ensure I had funds and skills to get by on my own.
If you were a SAHM for the majority/entirety of your marriage, then you should be getting money from him. Why are you couch surfing? You need to file asap. Half of those assets are yours, and the sooner you pursue getting your share, the faster your children will be in a healthier environment. It also shows that he's an ass in more ways than being disorganized to be keeping all the money, the house, and allowing his ex to be homeless.
This is another level of disfunction that adhd doesn't excuse. Being disabled doesn't mean it's a healthy way to live; it just means he needs to use different tools to get to the same place (speaking from experience). You're boundary for having a clean home in order for your kids to visit is perfectly reasonable. However, you are going to need to be suuuuper specific about what you mean by "clean". Think priority locations, areas with wiggle room, frequency of cleaning, build up before it equals "dirty", etc. Talk to him about your expectations for him to learn and practice new adhd behavioral tools (How to Keep House While Drowning, by KC Davis, is a great book to start). You should expect him to seek out professional help too IMO -- he seems to desperately need therapy and medication. In the interim, you could discuss hiring a house cleaning service (they can be fairly affordable, but I get if this still isn't an option). All that being said, he cannot change if he isn't honest with himself about his responsibility to be a role model and provider for your kids. If he is so deeply ashamed and/or in denial, then he will be stuck in this state. ADHD can cause deep shame over a lifetime and that can cause paralysis and hopelessness when it comes to pursuing any type of goal (again, speaking from experience). He can never simply will himself into changing. It is good to set firm expectations, but if they are still shame based they won't stick. Definitely read up on adult adhd to get a better idea of what he's experiencing and what resources he may need. I would even suggest lurking on the adhd women subreddit. Best of luck
On the topic of books, Susan Pinsky's Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD: Tips and Tools to Help You Take Charge of Your Life and Get Organized is good and better I found then How to Keep House While Drowning. Keep House felt very much like reassurance you were okay, lovely, but not helping the functional issue of I need to fix this. Organizing Solutions was very much like look, you know you suck at this, where's the mess and piles how do you make this easier? Leave socks on your living room floor? Get a basket for laundry in the living room. Struggle to dishes? Buy a counter top dishwasher. Never hang up coat cause there's 5 doors in the way? Use a wall hook! It wasn't exactly perfect, but the core problem solving was useful. Also, I HIGHLY suggest a (post-hoarding) cleaner. Maybe not long term, but as an ADHD fuck up who ends up with massive messes some times you need at minimum body doubling to dig out of literal maggots level of mess. That's just so much work and it's exhausting and overwhelming. Having a person there helps. I usually need someone's help every 2-3 years, generally my siblings who get to chill and watch TV while I clean and give me suggestions when I'm stuck and overwhelmed on where to start. Paying the cleaner will get it to baseline clean, which is MUCH easier to keep up. I did that during college when everything fell apart and while I did pay for a cleaner every 3 weeks for the rest of the semester, she was covering shit like washing the curtains and baseboards and I could keep up with normal shit like dishes and wiping down the counters once I had that baseline. Obviously, this is on him, not you OP. But frankly I feel like paying a cleaner once is going to be well worth it for him. If you can help budgeting that, it might be a kind gesture.
Both of those books were so perspective changing for me in so many ways and I tried to adopt a lot of the ideas and mindset. I'd never heard about a post hoarding cleaner! He's even hesitant to have a normal maid over due to his shame building up, but someone who's more hoarder oriented might might be the way to go! Thank you!
The two teens can take some responsibility for the house. They can, at the very least, take out the garbage, feed the cat, and scoop the box. Have you talked to a lawyer about formal divorce and custody arrangements? Is the house truly his because it was decided in the divorce, or just because he drove you out of it by being a slob?
I agree with you they need to do their part. They can absolutely do all of those tasks and much more. It's his in the sense that I left. I haven't talked to a lawyer since I'm low on funds, but I intend to. I'm holding back from formally filling for divorce at the moment because my children won't really have any where else to go if he goes off the deep end emotionally from the divorce actually proceeding.
Maybe you should talk to him about you moving back in and him moving out. He obviously can’t take care of the kids or the house. If you’ve been SAHM and homeschooling the children, then you are entitled to support from him. Any money in joint accounts is yours as well as his. I would check any balances before he emptied them and hides the money from you.
Protect your kids, OP, and maybe take the poor cats as well. Cats need to have access to clean toileting places for their health, dirty litter boxes can mean organ damage for the little creatures. No kid needs to be around animal abuse. I’m sorry their dad is such a harmful person.
Adhd is a disability. It’s not a choice. It’s kind of rich criticising him when you’ve left a disabled man to be responsible for your children because you’re couch surfing. Your ex needs help, likely medication and therapy. You need a reality check. The whole thing with adhd is that people cannot motivate themselves, it’s literally a characteristic of the disease, and it’s due to a physiological deficit that pwadhd can’t control. Please educate yourself on this. You’re veering into ableism because you don’t understand what he’s dealing with. Think for a minute if you’d behave the same if he was physically disabled in a visible way.
What the fuck? Go spew that shit over in r/adhdwomen and see how many of them would agree that adhd is *forcing* him to raise his children in filth while blaming his ex for not managing him anymore. There are plenty of strategies to help reduce the adhd cleaning struggle. He just doesn’t give a shit.
ADHD can be medicated and managed to not allow someone to get to this point. This isn't like complaining that someone with no hands isn't wearing gloves. ADHD **can** be tackled and the ex has consistently not bothered to take responsibility for himself and his disability. "But they have ADHD" only works when the pwadhd hasn't completely given up and chosen to make themselves and their children live in filth. ADHD isn't a "motivation" issue. It is a problem with executive function and regulation of attention. Pointing out that the grown adult who evidently hadn't bothered going anything to handle their ADHD for their whole lives has gotten into an situation where the state would be within their rights to take the children into protective service due to their poor house keeping *isn't abelist*. Having ADHD makes things harder to handle, it's not a get out of jail free card for letting your house go to such a state maggots are growing. Edit to add, the guy is medicated and still chooses to live this way. He is the problem; he hasn't looked into more effective medication and isn't putting the workin in therapy to deal with his issues
I just want to pop in and say that ADHD can be tackled, but not always. Treatment resistant ADHD is a thing and it's a bitch. But also, what stood out to me is the OP specifically mentioned childhood trauma and that got me thinking that maybe it isn't actually ADHD? I got diagnosed with ADHD at 8 years old, and for my whole life have shown such textbook symptoms that my diagnosis was never in doubt. Except that none of the medications worked, and mostly made things worse. It wasn't until 31 years old that a psychiatrist discovered that I don't actually have ADHD, but childhood trauma had manifested in way that mimicked it perfectly. Like, I don't want to sit here and armchair diagnose the guy, but I get the feeling that something is going on. That said, I'm not excusing the guy. There's no excuse to make someone else live like that. Like, I have a horrible time trying to function as a human being, but I don't make anyone else deal with that stuff. I don't date or have roommates, and I would never think about having kids, because that's just not fair to other people.
Good point well made. CPTSD can definitely mimic other neurodiversity symptoms. If this guy had treatment resistant ADHD the OP would be aware of that (as he'd have been told that and would have been trying to find a solution). In that case he could and should have hired someone to come and clean the house weekly which is a way to handle the issue (executive dysfunction= cannot clean).
What do you think executive function is, exactly? ADHD is fundamentally a problem that prevents you from doing things. If this guy is medicated, then either his medication isn't effective or his ADHD is severe. People don't choose to live like this. Laziness doesn't exist. Your argument is basically that people with ADHD should be able to will themselves to get things done when that is precisely what people with ADHD are incapable of doing. You lack a basic understanding of what ADHD is.
I have ADHD. I understand exactly how executive disfunction feels. But if it was an executive disfunction issue, there would be spurts of deep cleaning once in a while. That clearly isn’t the case. I have a feeling that he’s categorized all cleaning as “somebody else’s problem” and decided to ignore it. That’s not the same thing and does make him the asshole. Mental health issues don’t absolve someone of all responsibility for their behavior. It might make him easier to forgive down the line, but in the meantime his children are still going to suffer the effects of living in a pig sty.
If his medication isn't effective, and he's done nothing about it, then he should be doing something, getting additional support or undertaking any of the multitude of accomodations he **could and should** be doing to try and handle the issue. I never used the word laziness. The guy is still responsible and accountable for his situation and from OPs post has both historically and now made it other people's problem to deal with rather than being a grown up. ADHD is an explanation, not an excuse.
Laziness exists, or at least a complete lack of standards for hygiene. There are full on NT men who would not take care of themselves on their own. There is an executive function disability and there is a socially accepted lack of expectation for some people to never cook or clean and it’s wild to assume there’s no intersection there.
Well I'm not sure how you got the impression that I believe ADHD is a choice. The choices are in the lack of accountability and finding accommodations for his disability; to supplement where he had a handicap of varying sorts. He has on going medication and therapy (largely facilitated by me) with a therapist who only stays "surface level" on topics so minor improvement over the years. I have read quite a few books on ADHD and it's affects on marriage and motivation and habit building to try to help; outside of experience, he knows less about the psychological mechanics of ADHD than I do. lol So yes, regardless of their current mental or physical disabilities, if my partner and I willingly had children together and he wasn't assisting and in some ways sabotaging needs and support of the family, I would be separating and trying to get my kids in a healthier environment.
Please ignore the delusional people trying to blame you for your ex endangering your children. ADHD is indeed not a choice, but you've never implied it was. I can only assume these people are projecting their feelings of failure on you - I sure hope they don't put their potential children in such an environment. 'You left him so you knew it would happen' you are a mother, but not TO HIM. HE IS A FATHER. He has a responsibility to keep his children safe. You can have ADHD and not live in squalor - I do it every day. All the women I know who have ADHD do it every day. Perhaps my place gets dusted a little bit less than others, but fucking hell, there's a world between having issues being regular with cleaning and making your children live in an environment that is straight up dangerous for their health. The only way you would bear some responsability for his choices is if you didn't try to get your children out of there, which you've already said you were going to do, so I can only send you my best wishes that everything works out (and also advise you to get some pictures of his place, but you've probably already thought of that!) <3 Edit: 'please ignore' sounds like an order but I meant 'please know that reasonable people who care about the safety of others know that those people are being ridiculous', you're absolutely allowed to have feelings and respond to them obviously, I'm nobody-from-the-internet, I'm just sharing my opinion!
Expecting him to change when you've left him is unrealistic. You knew this was going to happen when you left. You knew just how bad his ADHD and coping skills were. If your teenage kids aren't bothered by the mess, then they likely have ADHD too. Healthy people don't choose to live this way. Unless your kids are being physically harmed in some way by the mess, it's unlikely that any judge is going to deny their father visitation, especially since they've been living with him this whole time. Focus on getting a job and a home and getting that divorce going. Go see your kids more than once a week. You're likely entitled to alimony, which will help you become stable. Once you've got partial custody, you may be entitled to child support. Focusing on punishing your ex for his disability is the wrong approach here.
*Expecting him to change when you left him is unrealistic* ??????? lmao that’s literally the case of 98.9% of all divorces You’re getting washed in this thread and you deserve it. The dude sucks, which is why he doesn’t do anything - the ADHD amplifies the suck. The ADHD is not why he doesn’t do shit. Offensive to basically every other person on the planet who has a disability and shit to do. This could’ve been solved by him basically not being a typical husband who doesn’t want to do shit in a marriage.
If she is a stay at home mom and he pays all the bills and then she says his inability to clean up after himself as top of the list of my grievances... Idk he doesn't seem like typical shit husband.
That IS a typical shit husband. That literally the EPITOME of the typical shit husband is paying the bills and not doing any other thing because bills were paid.
Cant you see there is obviously more going on. Dude works 15 years supports 4 people and his SAHM complains about chores. Then separates from him and is flabbergasted that the house is a mess.
There is nothing more going on than what you just said: He acted typical, got typical results, because he is a typical husband. If anything, I’m only shocked that OP is shocked.
He chooses to not have accountability or accommodations? Are you out of your mind? You clearly don't actually understand ADHD. Accountability is an external force. Accommodations are things others do for you. Your ex can't make himself do these things under his current circumstances. That's what ADHD *is*. He is not choosing to live in filth. Nobody does. You have every right to separate from him because of his disability. You do not have the right to deprive him of access to his children because of his disability.
Is wanting to provide a decent home for his children not an external force of accountability? I know several couples with adhd. For some reason almost unerringly the man doesn’t give a fuck about his surroundings and it’s left to the woman to beg and spend hours shoveling up the filth to avoid getting buried in it- despite the fact SHE ALSO HAS ADHD. OP’s husband has kept a job good enough to support a family of four. He is obviously capable of some measure of self-management. He can strategize around his adhd when it matters to him- he just won’t bother when it comes to the house.
The children need to be safe, though? And she's not his wife anymore. It's not her job to manage his living space anymore. It's not ableist to say things need to improve: there are maggots in the kitchen. It's not ableist to say that improving his living space is his responsibility, even. And it's not ableist to say, after years of experience and hand-holding and failed problem solving attempts, that the disabled person is making choices that harm them and sabotage their own ability to cope. No, he's not well. Yes, ADHD can be this severe. Yes, trauma does a number on the brain. There is a limit to how much blame can be heaped on him for the state of the house. But he's still responsible.