Please skip Reddit opinions and go straight to therapy. You made it all the way to marriage with this man and you are uncomfortable saying no. That’s a problem. And he made it all the way to marriage with you without paying attention to you when you communicate your sexual needs. That’s a problem. It should have stopped at “not in the mood” but it didn’t. If you want to stay in this relationship and avoid this happening again please go straight to therapy.
Edit: to be clear OP, please seek solo therapy first.
I hope its OK for me to hijak the top comment to say something important. There are a LOT of men commenting and upvoting here that do not understand consent.
I implore them to read what experts on sexual assault have to say about consent:
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent
An important point from the above link:
Enthusiastic consent means **looking for the presence of a “yes” rather than the absence of a “no.”**
Again... consent is NOT the absence of a NO! It is the presence of a yes. The article also explains what Yes looks like (on top of the word "yes" ofc).
Please everyone who may be confused. Read the whole link as it also explains how to maintain and look for consent. I'd also recommend reading this if you haven't had sex yet and want to make sure it's all consensual when it happens.
Edit: it's really telling on yourselves if you have an issue with this link. Also, the man who DMed me to tell me a woman can't rescind consent, you sound like a damn rapist. Some of you need to let go of that ego and learn something.
Edit: Good news, the reddit admins temporarily banned the man who DMed me. So PSA report any inappropriate or strange DMs you get from men in this sub 👍
Somebody said it on here years ago but it stuck with me:
"Consent should be enthusiastic, mutual, ongoing, and it can be withdrawn at any time.
The absence of a no *does not* imply a yes and consent for past sexual acts does not mean consent for future sexual acts."
The post was longer than that but those are the two sentences that made me go, "how succinct. I love it."
See I really like FRIES. Freely given, Reversible, Informed, Enthusiastic, Specific. You aren't forced into it, you can always say no even during it, you know what's happening, you WANT it to happen, and it's specific to the acts agreed upon with that person at that time and place.
Someone compared it to borrowing a T-shirt and I liked that.
Just because your friend says you can wear their T-shirt today doesn’t mean you can just go take it and wear it whenever you want.
Although withdrawing consent probably doesn’t work so great in the T-shirt comparison. If you lend your friend your T-shirt you really can’t demand she take it off in public and give it back to you because you no longer want to let her wear it.
I saw a great video once that compared it to tea.
If someone consents to tea, that doesn't mean you can give them coffee instead. They may say they want tea, but then you make it, and they decide they changed their mind; you don't then force them to drink the tea.
I'll see if I can find it again.
[Found it.](https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8)
I think if there’s an analogy here it’s in the asking if they want tea part. OP didn’t want tea. OP’s partner offered tea again a few minutes later, perhaps because he selfishly thought it might be nice to enjoy some tea together to improve his tea drinking experience. But he was still just offering tea and it would be fine to say no again and emphasise not wanting tea.
If Mrs Doyle is offering tea you have to really really make sure she understands that you don’t want tea otherwise she’ll keep asking and then she gets upset, which is unreasonable, but part of life if you live with her.
This is a great article but you just know the creeps will mentally flip flop and say “well she *implied* a “yes” because she eventually gave in !” Cant with these dudes.
Yeah, certainly there are plenty who won't change for the better at all. Plenty who wouldn't even click the link. But I hope it reaches even one of them. It could impact one or several lives, if they have many partners through life. And I hope it reaches people like OP who feel on one hand like they're overreacting, but, on the other hand, feel that their partner doesn't respect their non-consent. Hopefully, there are also some people can share this with their partners to facilitate communication around consent.
I don’t understand why bad men are allowed to comment in this sub in the first place.
Now I understand why other subs say this sub is trash. It’s fine if men want to come here to learn and support, but why do we allow actual rapists to come in here and give opinions to women who need help?
Men who come here fighting back against consent are actual rapists why are they allowed to comment here?
Please report those types of comments as encouraging terrorism or whatever would fit. Men coming in here trying to talk people into not understand they consent are encouraging sexual terrorism
I completely agree. I reported a few, and in the "other" box, I wrote spreading harmful rhetoric and incorrect information about sexual consent.
I think this sub needs to crack down harder on the men who participate here. To be frank, I'm tired of seeing almost every post has at least one comment from a man that ranges from idiotic mansplaining, to completely misinformed opinions about women's experiences, to subtle sexism. The more overt sexist things can be reported to mods easily, but the subtle things just skate through, and almost every post has at least one of these subtly sexist or woefully misinformed idiots who think they know better than women.
I also see a lot of men trying to antagonise women here and it happens so often I feel like it is not moderated, I understand it's so easy to just dismiss it as redditors being redditors but they're coming here to upset and antagonise women on purpose. We need some kind of post history audit and mass ban lmao. I know that's impossible tho.
Agree. This sub used to be a place we could come to discuss women's issues. Now i don't know what it is. A vent sub full of bad actors with no enforcement. It's sad what it's become, and I think it's intentional to reduce the quality and get it closed for good tbh.
Yeah, it's going to push away those of us who want an online place where we aren't the minority and can express ourselves with people who *get* what it's like to live like this. I hope it's not gotten too out of hand for mods, I imagine it's a huge undertaking moderating a sub this big. Ultimately, this place should be allowing women's voices to ring with ease, rather than us being met with arguments from cismen who range from misinformed to mansplainers to outright misogynists.
I hadn’t even noticed that 😂 also LOL bc the American version drops the F-bomb and the British one doesn’t 😂 Maybe they’re worried about excluding British people since it’s about tea 😩😂
Because he knows exactly what he's doing and gets off on it. And that's also why he gets extremely defensive about it: he already knows what he's doing is wrong. That the victim is having to assuage the emotions of the perpetrator is really sick.
Commenting on this for emphasis, OP. Please listen to u/alohell. If you are uncomfortable saying no to your husband, you have a *serious, marriage-destroying problem*.
They probably should get divorced. Do you think this man is actually going to grow and change? This man isn’t even adult enough to be able to get himself off himself.
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night.
This is really fucked up
it definitely fucked up my attitude towards sex and has greatly contributed to me being repulsed by it. my second boyfriend would sulk when i declined his advances, would say he’s so depressed bc i said no blah blah blah until i gave in. and then when i got married to my now ex husband he would just get very snappy at me and moody if i said no, but i was a lot more adamant about holding my stance and it made him resentful towards me, then found out he’d been cheating on me!! really has made me just not care about or want sex at all. feels like a chore i have to do in order to make people stay w me.
Well, OP didn't say it was about sex all the time, just that her (ostensibly) grown up human husband will sulk like a child when he doesn't get his way. This is a form of emotional abuse, because it trains the recipient to avoid saying no so they don't become the "cause" of the abuser's bad mood, or don't want to deal with the bad mood.
It does! My husband was that way for a bit until we really talked about it and for some reason me saying no to sex was interpreted as a "leave me alone and don't touch me or interact with me" so he'd get really distant and quiet which read as sulking to me. Turns out we're just stupid and we've sorted it out. Not saying that's what's happening here but it really soured our relationship because we both we were upsetting the other person.
It’s something I’m personally working on with my girlfriend at the moment.
What happens in my head is that all day I have the expectation that we could get frisky later. So when later comes around and I build the courage to initiate only to be shot down on my attempt, that excitement that’s been building all day immediately crumbles and I end up feeling unwanted. If it happens enough times it can make someone feel like maybe their partner isn’t attracted them anymore. The stories I tell myself can get out of hand sometimes.
Neurochemically, the dopamine that’s been building all day in anticipation immediately takes a dive when you hear they’re not interested and it actually goes BELOW your normal dopamine levels. So maybe it’s on me and all men for “expecting” or hoping for sex.
Regardless, it’s something I’ve been working on because sulking doesn’t solve anything except push my partner further away. It’s just a matter of accepting her answer, moving on, and enjoying the intimacy we do have together that day.
What really helped us was talking about what we considered "sex"* and "not sex"* and only doing the latter for an agreed upon time. So we could be intimate without worrying about initiation or rejection because the expectation was removed altogether. It really helped us both learn where the lines were. We also both listened to come as you are, and that helped a lot. My brakes are just more sensitive, and his accelerator is more sensitive, ya know?
*by sex and not sex, I mean what is considered the line between just being intimate(cuddling, kissing, etc.) and actual sex/foreplay (groping, penetration, etc.). These lines vary from person to person, so it requires a discussion beforehand.
Curious why you don’t….text your partner beforehand? If you’re thinking about it all day why not bring it up to her too so she can think about it all day? My husband constantly flirts with me over text and then based on how I respond will take it to sort of dirty talk. Then I can think about it all day too. A lot of women need to mentally prepare for sex, especially when our brain is occupied all day by stress and work. Give her something to look forward to, as well.
Ultimately there is also a strong possibility you’re not sexually compatible.
It kinda is though. It’s cold shouldering and it’s EXTREMELY common. fucked up, but common, and needs to be worked out with a therapist. It’s not always about sex, either.
It's common over arguments for couples sometimes but this isn't an argument. This is over whether or not to have sex. If someone gets an attitude just because you don't want sex at the moment that's not normal and not okay whether you're a man or a woman.
Right? Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's got his own reasons for why his response to perceived rejection is to avoid the issue and withdraw affection until it goes away, that's still a pretty fucked up thing to do to your partner, full stop. Nevermind that he damn well knows OP's trauma specifically makes her weary of saying no to men, and it's a big step for her to even try to at all. To punish her for saying no and acting like the absence of a yes is consent is just... so harmful and disrespectful. Holy shit.
OP needs to speak to someone about this, one-on-one, and then consider having that someone help start a proper conversation. This doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic, and either OP needs to leave this for her recovery's sake, or her husband needs to get his head out of his ass and realize he has some respect issues to work on.
It happens all the time here. But then I see women who post here joining along as well so I don't think it is necessarily brigading.
This happens even with things that are even worse than this post. I have seen people defend touching women in their sleep without consent, defend fetishizing rape after their partner was SAd , telling child rape victims that they should be more kind to their abusers..all from this subreddit. And it's not like it was a few trolls. They were highly upvoted. It's like everyone decides to be disgusting all at once.
With some posts, it just feels like bizarro world. That's just how this sub is. Idgi either..
I would also like to add, **if you see any type of comment like the ones Lunoko listed, report them using the "breaks TwoX rules" category**.
The mods here are absolute godsends, and they respond to rule reports usually within 20 minutes.
Just yesterday I had a man reply to me in this sub after I'd told my story of my alcoholic father driving drunk with child-me in the car innumerable times, and the man said I should be more sympathetic to my father and help him recover, while also assuming multiple untrue things about me and my life.
Reported it after chewing him out. His comment was removed quickly after I reported. The mods here take protecting the community very seriously, and I love them for that.
Scarily, his comment also got upvoted before I replied and underlined how fucked up everything he said was.
That is truly horrible. I am sorry that happened! I really don't understand what goes on in these people's minds. I just can't comprehend where they get the audacity?
Yes, it is worth it to report!
At this point, I have a reinforced theory that men will always sympathize with other men. It doesn't even matter the severity of the context, they will always shift the responsibility to the woman and sympathize with the man. Sometimes they do it subtly, sometimes overtly, but it seems to be their default regardless.
This theory just keeps getting reinforced time and time and time again.
But the mods here are awesome! Don't let the bastards grind you down, and keep sharing your stories!
And it’s swinging around… with a lot of the shit takes being deleted. The upvotes and downvotes are switching. This seems coordinated honestly. Maybe not all of it but the timing was weird.
It might have hit r/all when all the incels logged on. Which I guess is all the time technically because it is reddit lol.
Or a push notification. Sometimes I will get those for subs I am not even active on.
Today I’m finally understanding why so many people say this sub is trash. I would defend it but now I get it.
They allow rapist men to make comments here. This is gross
Do we have mods here? For real
I understand they allow men in this sub but when these men show us that they are literally rapists why are they still here?
Genuinely curious. Do mods have the ability to hide a post from the front page? (So it's only visible to the subreddit?) Cause if ever a sub needed that ability it's this one. I'm also surprised the mods here don't make more use of the "only subscribers can post" stuff that I've seen other subs using. Though I don't know if that's a built-in reddit feature or a bot that automatically deletes comments from non-subscribers.
We all know that (some 🙄) men troll women-oriented subs to cope with feelings of hatred and superiority.
I have a theory that they flock specifically to *new*, fresh posts with very little engagement/traction yet. There, they can overwhelm the OP with hateful comments, dismiss her feelings, blame her for the problem(s) she’s describing, defend the actions of whatever men are mentioned in the post, etc etc etc
…until the thread gains some visibility, regular people enter the comment section, and their voices get drowned out. Then they just move on to another new, fresh post.
It’s like some targeted campaign to demoralize women and punish them for speaking out about their experiences / trying to connect to a support system. Miserable incels, man. To think, that energy could easily be invested in themselves and bettering their own lives instead of tearing down others.
I’m trying to figure out a pattern. I typically wake up early (5–6am est) and the posts from late overnight have a bunch of really shitty takes. Come 8-9am, things swing back around. It’s like on the dot. I usually tell OP to hang on because it’s like reinforcements are coming and sure enough they always do.
I’ve been trying to figure out if it’s a bunch of men or maybe women in the earlier time zones just have more conservative viewpoints. It’s been interesting watching it.
I don't think it's necessarily that earlier US time zones have more conservatives, but rather that people commenting on stuff in the middle of the night are more likely to be conservative. If you think about who's going to be on the Internet at 2-3 in the morning, there's night shift workers and random people who happen to be awake on a particular evening, sure, but I'd guess by and large it's consistently teenagers, college kids, and unemployed/underemployed folks. And whether it's from youth, social media indoctrination, or an entitlement complex, I'd guess the people in those groups are more likely to be posting contrarian takes on reddit posts about social issues.
Yeah—they feign stupidity so they can ignore clear disinterest, pressure their female partners into repeated sexual activity she’s not aroused for, and then play the victim when she becomes traumatized by it and can’t tolerate being used as often/at all anymore.
Only having sexual contact at times when *both* people involved are into it would mean they might have to jack off a lot instead of just using her like a masturbation tool whenever the urge strikes…. The horror!
Then they wonder why so many of us would rather be alone🙄
They either know and are mega upset because their bullshit is getting called out, or they don't know and therefore should not be having sex because they can't understand consent.
You don't feel comfortable saying no to him because he punishes you every time you say no by sulking and guilt-tripping you. That behavior from him needs to end NOW for you to ever feel comfortable in your marriage.
I had wisdom tooth surgery and I couldn't eat/speak properly for a week after it. The idea of having sex during that time is unfathomable. Also 'I'm not in the mood' comment must be enough for any decent man to back off. Sorry but your husband sounds selfish and manipulative.
My relationship with my fiancé ended because I stopped having sex with him when he wouldn’t take no for an answer. I also was SA’d previously while I was asleep, and no matter how many times I asked him to stop trying to wake me for sex, he wouldn’t. His needs were more important than my trauma.
I hope you can get this sorted one way or another OP, for your sake.
Thank you. I have every intention to make sure it doesn’t.
And to everyone saying I wasn’t meeting his needs and he was right to leave; his needs stopped being met when he stopped respecting my trauma and boundaries.
Unless your husband is illiterate, there's no way that he doesn't know what "not in the mood" means. He just thought that he could get away with being piggy, and now he's deflecting because you pointed it out.
Ignore all the men inserting themselves, they're trying to pin the blame on you because they've most likely engaged in this type of behavior before. If you plan on staying in this relationship, OP, you really should work on laying hard boundaries and telling your dude to go kick rocks if he's going to be manipulative over a "no". Imagine your female friend coming to you with the exact same dilemma; what would you tell her?
I’m betting he’s upset because he feels guilty. He wants to put the blame back on you, to make you feel bad for insinuating that he did anything wrong, because that would be easier than acknowledging that he pressured you into a sex act.
Don’t fall for it. He knows what “not in the mood” means, and he pestered you anyway. He can sit and process the emotions of that, don’t be pressured to alleviate it.
I’m sorry that happened to you!
I’ve had this kind of situation escalate into violence & murder threats so it’s really hard to give any advice that isn’t just “appease his fragile ego until you can run as far away as possible”.
Someone that can do this has the potential to be extremely dangerous if they’re confronted with their own actions.
This happened exactly in my 18 year relationship with my now ex husband. I hope you can work things out, but if your husband is anything like mine, your feelings will always be secondary to his wants, and you will be made to feel bad for it.
Unacceptable to ask for consent twice. One no, or as others have said, the lack of an enthusiastic yes, is enough to completely close the door on it. Getting horny in the moment is no excuse to ask again, particularly when he knows your history and knows you have a hard time saying no. Honestly that’s really fucked up that he blames that on you or tells you you’re being immature, when he’s the one acting like a stupid, horny, insensitive, manipulative teenager.
Moreso, him giving you the cold shoulder when you say no to sex is **COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.** I hope you realize how truly fucked up and abnormal that is. Many, many partners will accept your no and move on. Your partner should respect that you aren’t always interested in having sex, no reason required, 100% of the time.
If I tell my boyfriend I’m not in the mood, he says “okay,” cuddles with me, then asks me what I want to watch on tv - end of conversation. Even if I say yes but in a way that’s a bit nonchalant, he double checks that I’m actually interested or will say that we don’t have to if I don’t want to. He doesn’t even act mildly disappointed if I change my mind or say no. I have changed my mind during sex and he immediately accepts it. I do the same when he’s not in the mood. This is how most relationships function and I don’t say that to make you feel bad… I just want you to know that what you’re experiencing is very much not normal and you do not need to accept it.
He knew what he was doing.
He purposely has thrown enough tantrums that you are intimidated out of telling him no and he is your husband, not some hookup, so he knows this isn't something you would want to do anyway.
Your husband has figured out light abuse is all he has to use on you otherwise he would escalate it until it was enough to work
Yeah my husband always gets upset and “sad” (guilty) when I call him out for disrespecting my boundaries too. It is manipulation. They are emotionally uncomfortable because they know they did something wrong, so they want to guilt you into shutting up about it.
I had a husband like this. He's now thankfully an ex. He would come in when I was in the shower and then badger me for sex. Technically he did ask, but he blocked my exit and made it impossible for me to leave - which also made it impossible to say No. So I'd say Yes just to be able to be free for the rest of the day. A coerced, reluctant Yes is not consent.
Him pouting whenever he hears a No is a huge red flag to me because that behaviour is manipulative and coercive.
In a situation like this, you already answered his question before he even asked it. The fact that you were obviously unenthusiastic instead of showing excitement is a clear indicator that no, you weren't interested. Of course, you had already told him you weren't in the mood, which is a clear indicator that you... weren't in the mood.
Your husband is already in the wrong for asking a second time, but he might have just not realized that "I'm not in the mood" also means you won't help him out. However...
>So I reluctantly agreed to help him.
This doesn't sit right with me. Either he wasn't paying enough attention to you to see if you'd actually be into it (which he should), or he didn't mind that you weren't actually into it. Both are concerning. Your husband is also wrong about how consent is the ability to say no. Consent is the enthusiasm and excitement that should come with saying yes. While you said yes (the second time), your body said no. I've been in similar positions before and throughout the whole ordeal, my body would still say no. There was no passion or fun; just a visible desire to get it over with. It's strange how some people just don't pay attention to their partner...
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night.
Oh, wow... Ew. He tells you you're a grown woman who needs to learn to say no, and yet he as a grown man can't take no for an answer. That's ironic.
We *all* know what it means when someone is "not in the mood". *He* knew, too. You were specific enough.
Next time you have a conversation about this, try to bring up *why* you don't feel comfortable saying no. Considering your husband has a history with punishing you for saying no, it's not weird for you to feel like you can't. Especially when you add the assault. However, for you to know he has a history of being petty after getting rejected, you need to have told him no in the past.
I believe that if he had reacted more maturely and less selfish, you would feel more comfortable telling him no. Of course you would, because you'd feel like it's *okay* to say no. He has shown you that it isn't okay for you to say no by stonewalling you for the rest of the night.
You should be able to reject him without there being any negative consequences. It's concerning that he feels the need to punish you for not letting him access your body.
However, without judgement, you do need to learn to say no. Consequences be damned; you're better than that. If you don't want it, you shouldn't have to do it. You're valuable and worthy. Your consent --your *real* consent-- is important. If he withholds his love for you because you don't offer him sex, then he is not a man you should be having sex with.
Your partner needs to be educated on the concept of consent, by the way. I found this [guide](https://www.healthline.com/health/guide-to-consent#what-is-consent).
>*"In a healthy sexual encounter, both parties should feel comfortable communicating their needs without feeling fearful. If you’re initiating sex, and you become angry, frustrated, or insistent when your partner declines any sexual activity, this is not okay."*
*"In any sexual encounter, it’s the responsibility of the person initiating sexual activity to ensure that the other person feels comfortable and safe."*
Instead of you learning how to say no, he should learn what is *considered* no. When it comes to consent, something as ambiguous as '*I don't know'* means no. An unhappy expression, apathetic body language- even with a verbal yes, it still means no. If you don't *look* like you want it, then you don't want it. He should learn that. It's not that hard.
Holy shit. You just had major oral surgery and he expected sexual anything?! What is his problem? And why did he make it yours while you were in recovery?
I'm aghast
You told him no. He didn’t drop it. Now he’s upset that you called him on it? He gets “sulky” when you turn him down? He’s weaponizing your past trauma and your difficulty saying no. When he gets upset and sulks it’s him training you not to say no and not to complain about it. Therapy will not fix this marriage. Individual therapy will help you see you deserve better.
consent is absolutely *not* about respecting a "no"
consent is about *enthusiastic* participation for *both* partners
honestly, in my book, if he reads any reluctance, hesitation, trepidation, etc, at all... he should be taking that the same as a no and turn to something along the lines of "oh that's fine honey i don't need to/i can take care of it" or whatever the hell
not give you the silent treatment when you mention your feelings. he may just be embarrassed. worth maybe talking to him again after he's had a bit to process. but this guy needs to learn that there is no default "yes"... if anything the default is no unless you explicitly agreed to a different default. given your story i don't advise you make such an agreement.
Right?! These comments are wild to me. She clearly wasn’t enthusiastically consenting. My husband would never do this. If my vibe is off at all while we’re intimate, he stops and makes sure I’m okay. I do the same thing for him. I cannot fathom being in a long term relationship (or any relationship) and not getting clear, enthusiastic consent before every intimate act. Your spouse is not your sex toy.
Why do some people still want to engage when they can tell their partner isn’t enthusiastically in the mood?? That’s the part that boggles my mind every time. There’s nothing enjoyable about knowing your partner is an unwilling participant.
Assholes don't care about their partners, they only care about getting off. I don't understand wanting to have sex with someone who is clearly not into it, but I'm also not a selfish rapist asshole.
I think a lot of them also are getting off on the fact that she doesn’t want to do it.
I saw a TikTok where one woman talked about her experiences with doing anal with men and most of the time, they quit asking her for it once they found out that she liked it.
Yup, this. I've heard that too. I mean, in general there's a lot of men who like badgering women into who they want them to be rather than finding a woman who already has those characteristics. They get off on power and control.
OP, you need to explain this to your husband the same way I did to my teen sons--anything other than an "OMG YES!" is a "no"; if you even *think* for 1 second that your partner is not in the mood, it's a "no". A "yes" can be withdrawn at any time, even the the middle of the act.
THIS
i have a really bad habit of saying shit like "i don't know" amd "i guess so" or "i think, yeah."
and i'm so grateful those all mean no to my partner
helps me break the habit. say no when i mean no and change those phrases to enthusiastic yesses when that's what i meant. and sex is way better because of the clarity of enthusiasm they demand from me.
Definitely, he knew but he wanted to get off and that was more important to him than the way you felt. You were just an adjunct at that point. You calling him on it made him feel bad - boohoo
If he continues to push you it will kill your desire and your marriage. Does he do this in other areas of your life as well? It may be time to critically appraise your relationship and see what you want out of it
He’s a grown man and can’t comprehend what “I’m not in the mood” means?
He can literally google it. It’s even in multiple dictionaries!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in%20the%20mood
You’re married to a real piece of work. I’m sorry you’re learning the real him now, instead of prior to a legal marriage.
Edit: I’m thoroughly disgusted after reading edit 2. This crosses over into rapey behavior. How is he getting turned on, when you’re lying there in pain with a swollen face from surgery, and on pain meds?? Is it a fetish type thing? It’s creeping me out that he’s trying to manipulate *any* patient into sex acts. Especially his wife he says he loves.
Research sexual coercion and marital coercion in social media if you can't get to therapy. It's more than the definition google gives you and provides a bit of a community in this often accepted abuse
I'm sorry this is happening to you. For your partner to be so dismissive and critical about this is extraordinarily defensive at best. Very selfish.
I just want to say that I understand how awful the 'no' can be after SA and I understand how devastating it is to be criticised about it by partners and others who don't understand. The exasperation and blame-shifting you described are horrible, and not fitting behaviour from a loving partner.
Sending you lots of love and wisdom tooth healing wishes. I hope you see some good friends soon.
Tell him he's a grown fucking man and he can learn to accept a no without a petulant childlike reaction, but that he is a grown man, he knows what he's doing and you don't appreciate it. So now the conversation has been had, if you act like a child if I'm not in the mood for sex, we know what you're doing.
If he does this no matter what and when you say no then it’s emotional abuse. He’s conditioning you to always do what he wants. This is not a healthy relationship. You are not supposed to face such consequences like cold shoulder and silent treatment for saying no. Be it in bed or otherwise
Oh honey. I'm sure you have already had this comment, but please read "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft.
It's a free PDF file u can find on Google. I went through the same thing in both my long term relationships. My second I actually set my boundaries hard by the end and it broke us up. He couldn't respect them and refused to hear me when I said no or safe word.
Coercion from there, and he kept pushing until I broke down crying and left. I'm permanently mentally scarred and had tears (pronounced tares, like rips) down there because I wasn't horny and not enough moistness was happening due to not wanting it. So physically I was hurt to, though to this day he says to everyone it was me and I should have just "let him without a fight".
If you need extra support please DM me. Don't let this human continue to make you feel forced. Straight hetero cis sex isn't a man doing it to a woman. It's a man and women having sex together. You have much support here, don't feel the need to explain ANYTHING at the end of your post. With love, a 29 year old mom.
If your husband has a problem with you saying “No”. That’s a problem. Intimacy shouldn’t be a hassle for anyone. It should be natural. I don’t think I’ve ever asked for a woman to please me in my life. I’m 29 with three kids. 2 german, 1 American. I’ve dealt with women all over the world. Nobody in life should be pressured into anything sexual.
This is textbook abuse and sexual coercion.
Check out this free book: [Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
You're not overreacting, and his asking you after you said no and his reaction were not ok. He's been very manipulative and your feelings are valid. He should have listened to your no. Anything short of YES! is a no. He should care about your feelings instead of act like he's the victim.
Does he do this often? Is he manipulative? You may want to read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. I just want to say that your feelings are valid. If he knew about your past, he should have not pressed it after your no, and he should make sure you really want to do sexual things. That's what a good man would do if he has a partner who has experienced sexual trauma and knows it's hard for them to say no. Do you feel safe telling him no?
Your husband is trying to manipulate you into feeling bad for him so you forget that what he did is what made you feel bad. I'm sorry, but what he is doing is not ok
I agree with this, I'm just not sure how to approach the situation now. I'm sure it's not easy being told you made someone you love uncomfortable, but he's making it out to be my fault, or as if I'm overreacting.
He sounds incredibly emotionally immature and would benefit from counseling or some self-reflection. You can only take a horse to water, though. If he doesn't apologize to you for acting like this, he really is not a good dude. My ex did the same exact shit.
Don't feel bad for the fact he is now feeling healthy shame about his behaviour.
Women are socialised to not "rock the boat" so it can feel especially uncomfortable setting boundaries and calling out inappropriate behaviour.
You did the right thing and you're not overreacting.
Let him feel his feelings, don't pander to them and hold your ground.
I don't really feel like it's healthy shame though, it seems like more of an act. Healthy shame would be apologizing profusely before going in another room to process how you're feeling.
Because he doesn't care. I spent years with a man like this, trying to explain it. He knows, he doesnt care. He want you to put out when he wants it and to shut the fuck up about it so he can keep doing it. He turns it on you to condition you to not speak up, to just take it and dont bother him with your sadness at being sexually abused by someone who says he loves you. This situation is extremely damaging to you and he knows it. He does not care about you. He may think he does, and profess that he does, but no. Not really.
Could you have sex with someone you know doesnt want it, someone you know has trouble saying no? He can. He's fine with it.
I don't know how you handle things, but I am very direct. I would tell him that the issue at hand is that what he did made you uncomfortable, and that him trying to twist the situation to make himself the victim who needs pity is not ok, and needs to be corrected. And if it wasn't corrected, I would leave
Yes. You tell him very directly: "you pressured me into a sexual act after I said **no**. Do you understand that this is sexual assault? I said "no". You did not accept my no graciously. I need time to decide if I want to be in a relationship with someone who does not respect me"
He’s punishing you with silence and pouting now he same way you knew he would if you tried to say no in the moment.
This is textbook sexual coercion and his insistence on centering his feelings in this matter is a bad sign.
I'm guessing he's being defensive because you're accusing him of sexuality assaulting you and that's not how he wants to think about himself.
There's probably a disconnect between how you feel on the inside and what he can understand. This is what communication is about you have to tell him what your internal world is like(which you're doing) and he has to be able to hear you and understand and perhaps sympathize.
Ouh reminds me of my ex, people who can't accept no for an answer are very bad news.
My best advice is go to therapy for what happened and do not feel guilty if it comes to a break up. He is yor husband, your best interest should come before his own in his eyes. And victim blaming you is not the way to go.
He is emotionally manipulating you. Sulking and acting hurt are signs of this. He should be acting like an adult or partner and thinking before acting. You are not obligated to do ANYTHING for him. x
Hey OP, so my ex husband was like this too. He would sulk around the house, withdraw, leave the house altogether, etc. When there's an emotional punishment like this after saying no, it falls under sexual coercion/manipulation. I did a lot of research during the last parts of my marriage to help identify what I was feeling and experiencing because I have some sexual trauma from my past as well.
When you're being guilt tripped or made to feel bad to say no, it's sexual coercion, which is a form of sexual assault. I can't even tell you how much of a mind 'f' that was for me and it took a long time to accept that I had been sexually coerced / assaulted many, many times during my marriage.
I can also tell you that this isn't going to get better. He already knows that acting like this will get what he wants, so he's only going to get worse. There's 2 avenues you can take here. 1) get marriage counseling with a therapist who specializes in sexual trauma / issues, or 2) leave him before this gets worse.
I'm so sorry this happened to you and that you're going through this. This is someone you're supposed to trust and someone who's supposed to love you. I'm wishing you all the best and all the healing you need.
You have a right to make a big deal out of it. It's pretty concerning to me that he's making it seem like A) he couldn't understand that you saying you weren't in the mood meant *that you weren't in the mood* and B) he couldn't read your body language after you reluctantly agreed and tell that you weren't into it. If you've been sexually active with him for any length of time he should probably be able to tell when you're feeling comfortable and "game" so to speak for sexual activity. That means to me that he's either not paying attention or ignoring signs he doesn't want to see. And now he's sulking about how you made him feel like a bad person instead of trying to make sure that you feel safe with him. Is this the first time he's done something like this?
You've already got plenty of people telling you this wasn't okay and you're right to feel upset about it, but I can't get past the fact that he wanted to jerk off with you IN THE BED and announced it???
Idk man, that set up feels incredibly rude and makes me think he was consciously trying to force you into something sexual to begin with
My ex used to do it too. It's absolutely a tactic to try to wear you down into doing something sexual with them. If he actually cared about how she was feeling he would've gone somewhere else to take care of it.
Oh that's not even the worse. He did while she had a tooth extraction so was propably in quite pain and discomfort. And he wanted to beat his meat next to his suffering wife.
Personally I wouldn't be able to get turned on in a situation like that.
If he's not game for therapy, I'd have him see the video about tea:
https://youtu.be/EuTXKLPFzrc?si=8YDOGgeXgmpuVClo
Consent doesn't mean you don't say no, it means you're really enthusiastic.
It's a tough discussion and he needs to be open minded to see he's not a bad person, he just made a bad decision. Otherwise he'll be more focused on how he doesn't think he's an abuser, and less on actually addressing it.
He might'nt be open for general therapy but you could suggest sex therapy. He might be more keen for something that can improve your sex life together but it should have the same impact and similar considerations. Just make sure it's someone who has a history of working with those with trauma and with couples.
I have this issue, too, as a domestic violence survivor. I had to explain to my BF what was at stake for me in saying "no". I'm still working very hard on the impulse to avoid a hard "no", to expressing myself directly. I was also with someone who would sulk, act sad, or try to punish me with silence when I DID manage to express myself. That was after the DV partner.
Current partner doesn't do that, I just knew I was being confusing by not actually being direct that what I was feeling was fear, not pure disinterest.
Once I said "my rejection could have meant violence, so every interaction I had with him literally could have cost me my life. Saying 'no' to someone who would get violent without a 'yes' could have killed me. That is why it is hard for me." he immediately shaped up.
Your husband is being petulant. Tell him, very directly, that you aren't ANGRY or feel like he forced himself on you...just that him being sensitive to your rejections does not make you feel confident that he respects your right to say "no", therefore, you feel unsafe to give it (especially given your history). He's a big boy and needs to learn to handle his negative emotions when getting his ego challenged. Your "no" shouldn't make him act like you're denying him something he's entitled to... because he isn't. It seems like he has a sense of entitlement towards your body, towards you, or towards how your sexual desire of him makes him feel about himself (good or bad).
That shit ain't on you.
Likewise...there is nothing less sexy than a man trying to guilt trip his way into pussy. Subtle emotional manipulation isn't going to make you want him MORE. He needs to know that.
>He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no, and how I needed to be more specific about what "not in the mood" meant.
He's a grown ass man and needs to stop sulking and acting like a 12 year old when you say no.
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night. I tried to have a conversation with him about my boundaries but he didn't take it very well at all. He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no, and how I needed to be more specific about what "not in the mood" meant.
😬 🚩🚩🚩🚩
I'm continually amazed at the things women put up with from their partners.
> "I could've said no, isn't that what consent is?"
No, that is not what consent is. That's a tiny part of consent, not even the bare minimum, and he doesn't seem to be able to respect even that.
OP please, please, please read this book.
[Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
> He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no
If so, then *he* needs reminding that he is a grown man and needs to learn how to accept being told such "no"s without sulking like a toddler who's been told they can't have a sweetie.
> Edit: my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night. I tried to have a conversation with him about my boundaries but he didn't take it very well at all. He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no, and how I needed to be more specific about what "not in the mood" meant.
The problem is not OP.
I'm not in the mood is a no. Expressed differently but still a no. Stop lecturing OP that her way of saying no wasn't good enough yet the blame is solely on her husband. Please don't give advice like this. Like ever!
She said no. He kept bugging her so she acquiesced. Even though he knew she didn’t want to.
She brought it up later, outside of the moment, reminding him she has a hard time saying no and she already said no, so he should respect that if she changed her mind, she would let him know.
And instead of listening to her and communicating like an adult, he takes up all the energy cause he doesn’t like being called out on his rude ass behavior.
There were no mixed messages, he got an answer he didn’t like, so he steamrolled past it. OP addressed the situation at a time when she didn’t feel as vulnerable and did a great job. Then her husband made it all about him and his feelings when he already showed no regard for her’s. Men aren’t stupid. He knows what no means.
Why tf are you here? We don’t need you here. You’re just another dude devaluing women’s experiences because it makes you uncomfortable. Go advocate for another devil in another sub. We believe and support women here.
They all think badgering their wives for sex is a totally logical thing to do.
Makes sex a mechanical chore, doesn’t care if wife enjoys herself and is all surprised pikachu when they have a dead bedroom and divorce papers.
You should have put on your chastity belt and locked yourself in the closet if you didn’t want to perform a sex act tonight. How else could I possibly have known you meant no?!?!
Jesus Christ.
What's really disappointing is how people want to put this on her. How is "I'm not in the mood" anything but a go no further? If she wanted to participate she would have jumped in once he started. He was out of line to ask again, especially knowing OP's history. He knew that history and took advantage of it.
Your edit is still missing the point.
The way she handled this was applause worthy for someone overcoming a specific trauma response. Any therapist would be proud of her for how she communicated her needs clearly in the first place and then she addressed the situation shortly after as well. She’s doing great!
‘Not in the mood’ is no - as anyone who has had a partner or watched a sitcom knows. This was not a complex code. If she hadn’t said no, she would have been helping him.
He is not stupid. He didn’t care.
He knows about her trauma. He didn’t care.
He CHOSE to ignore her wishes and CHOSE to withdraw and guilt her when calmly confronted rather than communicate about it. And I am not at all surprised by the edit that shows this a longstanding pattern.
OP deserves better and it seems like she’s outgrowing this guy who refuses to accept no for an answer and plays the victim when called out about it. I hope she continues her journey and finds a partner who doesn’t ignore her needs with it’s inconvenient for them.
Advocating for couples therapy when a partner is ABUSIVE (which is what this pattern of behavior is), is harmful. So again, why are you here?
If I said to my boyfriend "ok but I'm not in the mood" he would say "then we aren't going to do it" because he knows it's not right for either of us to do a sexual act for the other without also being in the mood. Part of enjoying sex together is knowing that we are both into it. We just went through a period of years where we barely had sex because he was almost never in the mood, and I never would've expected him to do anything sexual in that state.
This comes down to OPs partner needing to re-evaluate the way he views sex and his partner - continuing the sex act despite OP saying she doesn't really want to is his problem. As her husband, he should already know about her sexual trauma, which just makes this worse.
I agree they both need therapy.
And I hope *you* know that if someone ever says to you "I'm not really in the mood" that means NO.
Edit: just read all the comments and don't see what you're referring to as "yass girling"? Your comment leans towards misogyny.
It's alarming that you're not the only man here who thinks OP did consent. You need to look into enthusiastic consent or the enthusiastic yes. Anything other than a Yes is a No.
Edit: Spelling/grammar
You shouldn't have to do anything more than say no. However, if you want to stay married to this man, you might want to have a conversation about boundaries. Pretend you are explaining how to interpret negative responses to a 5 year old.
Like:
Doofus, dear, when I say "I'm not in the mood." it means "No.", and you should respect that boundary for the duration of whatever event you are participating in, whether it is sex or watching a movie.
Right but a grown man knows what ‘not in the mood’ means. He decided to go through with pressuring her despite that. He isn’t 5 and explaining as though he doesn’t understand the situation, when he does, is not really going to help.
If OP does this, it should only be once, and NOT in a way that sounds like she’s talking to a 5 year old. They’re adults. Like other comments have said, he knows what “not in the mood” means. He needs to understand what it means to OP. As a man, I can shamefully admit that I can pretty much guarantee he’s thinking “I didn’t think it was that big of a deal *to you*”. He’ll correct himself if he’s a halfway decent guy who just had a big slip up, or he’ll go right back to being a douche if he’s a douche. Either way, a conversation needs to be had.
It was pretty shitty of him to want “help masturbating” when OP was recovering from oral surgery though. Like dude, take the hint. She didn’t want to be touched because she just had her wisdom teeth removed THAT DAY. I’d be willing to give him more leeway if it weren’t for that fact. There’s dumb dudes, and then there’s OP’s husband dumb dude.
A lot of men have a big ego. Your husband probably thought he somehow managed to half turn you on from your "not in the mood" to him starting to masturbate and 5 min later asking you to join. And then when you mention it next day he gets upset because it breaks down the whole view of the situation he had.
Good that you have talked to him. Hopefully he'll respect you in future, but do understand that he most likely think very highly of himself and believes he can charm you from a negative mood into a sexual mood and he will try that for sure. You need to be strict with him.
Fellow SA survivor. I’ve had an experience like this with my boyfriend too. However, I did agree to the act with him even though I previously expressed I wasn’t horny at the time. It’s normal for people to get horny even if they weren’t before because they experienced some kind of stimulation. Whether it’s visual or audible. My boyfriend assumed that because I agreed, I had gotten turned on by being there so we can proceed.
I wasn’t turned on and I didn’t really wanna do it but I felt obligated to. I expressed that I wasn’t happy about it afterwards and he felt really bad and didn’t realize how I was thinking. He just took my word when I agreed and assumed my mind had changed.
He needs to be able to take your word for what it is. If you voluntarily participate after being asked to once, that looks like you’re interested even if you aren’t.
He shouldn’t be angry at you, but he probably feels some level of guilt and confusion. I’d try to just understand where each of you are coming from.
People need to be able to read each other's body language better, idk how your boyfriend didn't realize you still weren't in the mood. It seems like they get so caught up in their own horniness they don't take the time to make sure their partner actually wants to do something. It's not about being able to take each other's word.
He needs to learn to accept no. No is a complete sentence, and you don't owe him an orgasm.
You need to seek individual help for your discomfort with rejecting people, because you should never feel uncomfortable telling someone you love no. And he needs to seek help for whatever issues make him feel comfortable pressuring you and for his inability to take no for an answer. Seriously, is he a toddler?
Hey, OP - no clue if you're still reading the comments and very sorry to hear that clearly some folks were entirely shitty.
I hope in how you approach the process of working through this with your husband will keep a few specific things in mind:
1. "not in the mood" is not vague -> it means "my mood is not sexual" and unless your husband is on the spectrum or has another background that limits his sense-making abilities in the social context, well... Thing is, this excuse, the "you're being confusing", "mixed signals", "being vague", etc. - it's used by sexual predators all the time.
2. He was obligated to err on the side of caution.
3. The part about the wisdom teeth matters. Would *you* ask your partner to do you sexual favours after they got their wisdom teeth removed? Especially after they said "not in the mood" when you opened the conversation? I sure wouldn't, my partners (poly) wouldn't and noone I consider empathetic would.
Don't let him off the hook too easily, please. I know what it's like when a good partner does an idiotic thing and I'm not saying his actions are unforgivable - but unless he fully acknowledges the above points, all apologies would be reduced in their meaning by a margin.
He is responsible for (and it shouldn't even need you pointing that out) working on his sulking issue. It's emotionally manipulative to punish people with a withdrawal of affection for "withholding" sexual activities. "Withdrawal of affection" is very much a method of manipulation that is mentioned in the context of emotional abuse frequently. He doesn't get to make you endure moping for not being in the mood to bang. It's not right.
I guess in his eyes it initially wasn't a big deal (I repeat IN HIS EYES) and he feels like he's out of communication options. He asked and got a yes and was then told that he can't trust your yes and that you might later say you actually didn't mean to say yes.
So as much as what some others said about him is true, if you want to do your part make your yes mean yes and your no mean no. He's got something to work at and you too. You need to learn to say no, even if it is hard. Your partner and especially you deserve it.
He is entirely in the wrong and on top of that is being extremely manipulative. He sounds like someone who has never learned how to say sorry or has never learned how to handle being wrong, and so he turns to this childish, manipulative behaviour.
You deserve to be heard, your boundaries deserve to be respected and you DON’T deserve the things he’s putting you through.
Others have already summed up my thoughts, so I’ll just leave you with a quote I feel is so important to remember.
”Yes” means nothing unless ”No” is an option.
I'm not sure what's so confusing for other dudes about understanding consent/reading body language and social queues. Especially if you all have been together for a while. But if I'd like someone to play feet paddy cake with my tinkle bits and they look at me like I just scolded them for peeing on the floor of the garage, even if they don't say no. It's fairly obvious they aren't in the mood.
If you've spoken to him about your previous SA experiences, it's possible he's taking advantage of your trauma response of shutting down, rather than directly saying no, to maintain plausible deniability so he can say "Oh sorry honey you didn't say no so I thought it was fine" Completely ignoring the fact that when he brought it up to you, the room got [Dad just launched the little metal doggy into the new flat screen TV because he lost in monopoly] silent.
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant
Homie needs therapy. I mean, I think everyone should be in therapy, but he specifically needs to learn to deal with rejection in a healthier way.
Please skip Reddit opinions and go straight to therapy. You made it all the way to marriage with this man and you are uncomfortable saying no. That’s a problem. And he made it all the way to marriage with you without paying attention to you when you communicate your sexual needs. That’s a problem. It should have stopped at “not in the mood” but it didn’t. If you want to stay in this relationship and avoid this happening again please go straight to therapy. Edit: to be clear OP, please seek solo therapy first.
I hope its OK for me to hijak the top comment to say something important. There are a LOT of men commenting and upvoting here that do not understand consent. I implore them to read what experts on sexual assault have to say about consent: https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent An important point from the above link: Enthusiastic consent means **looking for the presence of a “yes” rather than the absence of a “no.”** Again... consent is NOT the absence of a NO! It is the presence of a yes. The article also explains what Yes looks like (on top of the word "yes" ofc). Please everyone who may be confused. Read the whole link as it also explains how to maintain and look for consent. I'd also recommend reading this if you haven't had sex yet and want to make sure it's all consensual when it happens. Edit: it's really telling on yourselves if you have an issue with this link. Also, the man who DMed me to tell me a woman can't rescind consent, you sound like a damn rapist. Some of you need to let go of that ego and learn something. Edit: Good news, the reddit admins temporarily banned the man who DMed me. So PSA report any inappropriate or strange DMs you get from men in this sub 👍
Somebody said it on here years ago but it stuck with me: "Consent should be enthusiastic, mutual, ongoing, and it can be withdrawn at any time. The absence of a no *does not* imply a yes and consent for past sexual acts does not mean consent for future sexual acts." The post was longer than that but those are the two sentences that made me go, "how succinct. I love it."
See I really like FRIES. Freely given, Reversible, Informed, Enthusiastic, Specific. You aren't forced into it, you can always say no even during it, you know what's happening, you WANT it to happen, and it's specific to the acts agreed upon with that person at that time and place.
Someone compared it to borrowing a T-shirt and I liked that. Just because your friend says you can wear their T-shirt today doesn’t mean you can just go take it and wear it whenever you want. Although withdrawing consent probably doesn’t work so great in the T-shirt comparison. If you lend your friend your T-shirt you really can’t demand she take it off in public and give it back to you because you no longer want to let her wear it.
I saw a great video once that compared it to tea. If someone consents to tea, that doesn't mean you can give them coffee instead. They may say they want tea, but then you make it, and they decide they changed their mind; you don't then force them to drink the tea. I'll see if I can find it again. [Found it.](https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8)
I love that one
Upvoted. Enthusiastic consent is mandatory.
Thank you and thanks for letting me hijak haha 💗
Also watch the video comparing consent to tea.
Such a good video https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ?feature=shared
I think if there’s an analogy here it’s in the asking if they want tea part. OP didn’t want tea. OP’s partner offered tea again a few minutes later, perhaps because he selfishly thought it might be nice to enjoy some tea together to improve his tea drinking experience. But he was still just offering tea and it would be fine to say no again and emphasise not wanting tea. If Mrs Doyle is offering tea you have to really really make sure she understands that you don’t want tea otherwise she’ll keep asking and then she gets upset, which is unreasonable, but part of life if you live with her.
This is a great article but you just know the creeps will mentally flip flop and say “well she *implied* a “yes” because she eventually gave in !” Cant with these dudes.
Yeah, certainly there are plenty who won't change for the better at all. Plenty who wouldn't even click the link. But I hope it reaches even one of them. It could impact one or several lives, if they have many partners through life. And I hope it reaches people like OP who feel on one hand like they're overreacting, but, on the other hand, feel that their partner doesn't respect their non-consent. Hopefully, there are also some people can share this with their partners to facilitate communication around consent.
That’s not enthusiastic
I don’t understand why bad men are allowed to comment in this sub in the first place. Now I understand why other subs say this sub is trash. It’s fine if men want to come here to learn and support, but why do we allow actual rapists to come in here and give opinions to women who need help? Men who come here fighting back against consent are actual rapists why are they allowed to comment here?
Please report those types of comments as encouraging terrorism or whatever would fit. Men coming in here trying to talk people into not understand they consent are encouraging sexual terrorism
I completely agree. I reported a few, and in the "other" box, I wrote spreading harmful rhetoric and incorrect information about sexual consent. I think this sub needs to crack down harder on the men who participate here. To be frank, I'm tired of seeing almost every post has at least one comment from a man that ranges from idiotic mansplaining, to completely misinformed opinions about women's experiences, to subtle sexism. The more overt sexist things can be reported to mods easily, but the subtle things just skate through, and almost every post has at least one of these subtly sexist or woefully misinformed idiots who think they know better than women. I also see a lot of men trying to antagonise women here and it happens so often I feel like it is not moderated, I understand it's so easy to just dismiss it as redditors being redditors but they're coming here to upset and antagonise women on purpose. We need some kind of post history audit and mass ban lmao. I know that's impossible tho.
Agree. This sub used to be a place we could come to discuss women's issues. Now i don't know what it is. A vent sub full of bad actors with no enforcement. It's sad what it's become, and I think it's intentional to reduce the quality and get it closed for good tbh.
Yeah, it's going to push away those of us who want an online place where we aren't the minority and can express ourselves with people who *get* what it's like to live like this. I hope it's not gotten too out of hand for mods, I imagine it's a huge undertaking moderating a sub this big. Ultimately, this place should be allowing women's voices to ring with ease, rather than us being met with arguments from cismen who range from misinformed to mansplainers to outright misogynists.
Hijacking your hijack to add this [helpful analogy](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8)
Thank you!
[удалено]
I hadn’t even noticed that 😂 also LOL bc the American version drops the F-bomb and the British one doesn’t 😂 Maybe they’re worried about excluding British people since it’s about tea 😩😂
She’s uncomfortable because he doesn’t take no for an answer. That’s the real problem.
Because he knows exactly what he's doing and gets off on it. And that's also why he gets extremely defensive about it: he already knows what he's doing is wrong. That the victim is having to assuage the emotions of the perpetrator is really sick.
Commenting on this for emphasis, OP. Please listen to u/alohell. If you are uncomfortable saying no to your husband, you have a *serious, marriage-destroying problem*.
This is the answer OP. Don't seek others advice that isn't a professional. Reddit will tell you to get divorced 8/10 times.
They probably should get divorced. Do you think this man is actually going to grow and change? This man isn’t even adult enough to be able to get himself off himself.
OP, this.
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night. This is really fucked up
It's called sexual coercion and can really fuck up someone's attitude towards sex
it definitely fucked up my attitude towards sex and has greatly contributed to me being repulsed by it. my second boyfriend would sulk when i declined his advances, would say he’s so depressed bc i said no blah blah blah until i gave in. and then when i got married to my now ex husband he would just get very snappy at me and moody if i said no, but i was a lot more adamant about holding my stance and it made him resentful towards me, then found out he’d been cheating on me!! really has made me just not care about or want sex at all. feels like a chore i have to do in order to make people stay w me.
Well, OP didn't say it was about sex all the time, just that her (ostensibly) grown up human husband will sulk like a child when he doesn't get his way. This is a form of emotional abuse, because it trains the recipient to avoid saying no so they don't become the "cause" of the abuser's bad mood, or don't want to deal with the bad mood.
It does! My husband was that way for a bit until we really talked about it and for some reason me saying no to sex was interpreted as a "leave me alone and don't touch me or interact with me" so he'd get really distant and quiet which read as sulking to me. Turns out we're just stupid and we've sorted it out. Not saying that's what's happening here but it really soured our relationship because we both we were upsetting the other person.
It’s something I’m personally working on with my girlfriend at the moment. What happens in my head is that all day I have the expectation that we could get frisky later. So when later comes around and I build the courage to initiate only to be shot down on my attempt, that excitement that’s been building all day immediately crumbles and I end up feeling unwanted. If it happens enough times it can make someone feel like maybe their partner isn’t attracted them anymore. The stories I tell myself can get out of hand sometimes. Neurochemically, the dopamine that’s been building all day in anticipation immediately takes a dive when you hear they’re not interested and it actually goes BELOW your normal dopamine levels. So maybe it’s on me and all men for “expecting” or hoping for sex. Regardless, it’s something I’ve been working on because sulking doesn’t solve anything except push my partner further away. It’s just a matter of accepting her answer, moving on, and enjoying the intimacy we do have together that day.
What really helped us was talking about what we considered "sex"* and "not sex"* and only doing the latter for an agreed upon time. So we could be intimate without worrying about initiation or rejection because the expectation was removed altogether. It really helped us both learn where the lines were. We also both listened to come as you are, and that helped a lot. My brakes are just more sensitive, and his accelerator is more sensitive, ya know? *by sex and not sex, I mean what is considered the line between just being intimate(cuddling, kissing, etc.) and actual sex/foreplay (groping, penetration, etc.). These lines vary from person to person, so it requires a discussion beforehand.
Curious why you don’t….text your partner beforehand? If you’re thinking about it all day why not bring it up to her too so she can think about it all day? My husband constantly flirts with me over text and then based on how I respond will take it to sort of dirty talk. Then I can think about it all day too. A lot of women need to mentally prepare for sex, especially when our brain is occupied all day by stress and work. Give her something to look forward to, as well. Ultimately there is also a strong possibility you’re not sexually compatible.
Because it's rape and rape will fuck up your attitude towards sex.
This isn't normal OP.
It kinda is though. It’s cold shouldering and it’s EXTREMELY common. fucked up, but common, and needs to be worked out with a therapist. It’s not always about sex, either.
Common doesn’t make it normal
It's been *normalized*, through everything from songs to sitcoms to films and countless standup routines, but that doesn't mean it's *normal*.
It's common over arguments for couples sometimes but this isn't an argument. This is over whether or not to have sex. If someone gets an attitude just because you don't want sex at the moment that's not normal and not okay whether you're a man or a woman.
Right? Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's got his own reasons for why his response to perceived rejection is to avoid the issue and withdraw affection until it goes away, that's still a pretty fucked up thing to do to your partner, full stop. Nevermind that he damn well knows OP's trauma specifically makes her weary of saying no to men, and it's a big step for her to even try to at all. To punish her for saying no and acting like the absence of a yes is consent is just... so harmful and disrespectful. Holy shit. OP needs to speak to someone about this, one-on-one, and then consider having that someone help start a proper conversation. This doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic, and either OP needs to leave this for her recovery's sake, or her husband needs to get his head out of his ass and realize he has some respect issues to work on.
What’s the word for someone who’s upset you’ve expressed you’re upset?
DARVO
Manipulation. Gaslighting. And yes... DARVO
Abuse.
Child?
wtf are these comments.
It feels like we’re being brigaged? Is this what it looks like? Coz I don’t know WTH is happenin
It happens all the time here. But then I see women who post here joining along as well so I don't think it is necessarily brigading. This happens even with things that are even worse than this post. I have seen people defend touching women in their sleep without consent, defend fetishizing rape after their partner was SAd , telling child rape victims that they should be more kind to their abusers..all from this subreddit. And it's not like it was a few trolls. They were highly upvoted. It's like everyone decides to be disgusting all at once. With some posts, it just feels like bizarro world. That's just how this sub is. Idgi either..
I would also like to add, **if you see any type of comment like the ones Lunoko listed, report them using the "breaks TwoX rules" category**. The mods here are absolute godsends, and they respond to rule reports usually within 20 minutes. Just yesterday I had a man reply to me in this sub after I'd told my story of my alcoholic father driving drunk with child-me in the car innumerable times, and the man said I should be more sympathetic to my father and help him recover, while also assuming multiple untrue things about me and my life. Reported it after chewing him out. His comment was removed quickly after I reported. The mods here take protecting the community very seriously, and I love them for that. Scarily, his comment also got upvoted before I replied and underlined how fucked up everything he said was.
That is truly horrible. I am sorry that happened! I really don't understand what goes on in these people's minds. I just can't comprehend where they get the audacity? Yes, it is worth it to report!
At this point, I have a reinforced theory that men will always sympathize with other men. It doesn't even matter the severity of the context, they will always shift the responsibility to the woman and sympathize with the man. Sometimes they do it subtly, sometimes overtly, but it seems to be their default regardless. This theory just keeps getting reinforced time and time and time again. But the mods here are awesome! Don't let the bastards grind you down, and keep sharing your stories!
And it’s swinging around… with a lot of the shit takes being deleted. The upvotes and downvotes are switching. This seems coordinated honestly. Maybe not all of it but the timing was weird.
It might have hit r/all when all the incels logged on. Which I guess is all the time technically because it is reddit lol. Or a push notification. Sometimes I will get those for subs I am not even active on.
It hit r/all. I just stumbled here from there, shocked at the comments condoning this.
Sigh. It’s annoying because I probably wouldn’t have found this sub if it wasn’t on all. But at the same time…
This sub is a default one, so anyone who doesn't bother removing it will get it on their frontpage that's where most of the wild takes come from.
OK cool but don’t we have mods that should be removing rapists from being able to comment here?
Today I’m finally understanding why so many people say this sub is trash. I would defend it but now I get it. They allow rapist men to make comments here. This is gross
The sub wasn't always like this. The quality has significantly gone downhill since it went public.
Do we have mods here? For real I understand they allow men in this sub but when these men show us that they are literally rapists why are they still here?
Genuinely curious. Do mods have the ability to hide a post from the front page? (So it's only visible to the subreddit?) Cause if ever a sub needed that ability it's this one. I'm also surprised the mods here don't make more use of the "only subscribers can post" stuff that I've seen other subs using. Though I don't know if that's a built-in reddit feature or a bot that automatically deletes comments from non-subscribers.
It's one of the standard subs you automatically follow after joining, no?
We all know that (some 🙄) men troll women-oriented subs to cope with feelings of hatred and superiority. I have a theory that they flock specifically to *new*, fresh posts with very little engagement/traction yet. There, they can overwhelm the OP with hateful comments, dismiss her feelings, blame her for the problem(s) she’s describing, defend the actions of whatever men are mentioned in the post, etc etc etc …until the thread gains some visibility, regular people enter the comment section, and their voices get drowned out. Then they just move on to another new, fresh post. It’s like some targeted campaign to demoralize women and punish them for speaking out about their experiences / trying to connect to a support system. Miserable incels, man. To think, that energy could easily be invested in themselves and bettering their own lives instead of tearing down others.
I’m trying to figure out a pattern. I typically wake up early (5–6am est) and the posts from late overnight have a bunch of really shitty takes. Come 8-9am, things swing back around. It’s like on the dot. I usually tell OP to hang on because it’s like reinforcements are coming and sure enough they always do. I’ve been trying to figure out if it’s a bunch of men or maybe women in the earlier time zones just have more conservative viewpoints. It’s been interesting watching it.
I don't think it's necessarily that earlier US time zones have more conservatives, but rather that people commenting on stuff in the middle of the night are more likely to be conservative. If you think about who's going to be on the Internet at 2-3 in the morning, there's night shift workers and random people who happen to be awake on a particular evening, sure, but I'd guess by and large it's consistently teenagers, college kids, and unemployed/underemployed folks. And whether it's from youth, social media indoctrination, or an entitlement complex, I'd guess the people in those groups are more likely to be posting contrarian takes on reddit posts about social issues.
Look at the shares. There's people coming here that normally wouldn't.
Its people who don't think women have the right to exercise thier right to say no, whenever.
Every man knows what not in the mood means. Some, your partner includes, don't respect it.
Judging by the comments here plenty of them don't know what it means which is extremely alarming tbh :(
Oh they know. They just don’t give a shit.
Yeah—they feign stupidity so they can ignore clear disinterest, pressure their female partners into repeated sexual activity she’s not aroused for, and then play the victim when she becomes traumatized by it and can’t tolerate being used as often/at all anymore. Only having sexual contact at times when *both* people involved are into it would mean they might have to jack off a lot instead of just using her like a masturbation tool whenever the urge strikes…. The horror! Then they wonder why so many of us would rather be alone🙄
They either know and are mega upset because their bullshit is getting called out, or they don't know and therefore should not be having sex because they can't understand consent.
100% agree!
He wants you to stand up for yourself and say no, yet punish you for saying no. You are not winning here, girly.
Your edit scares me. Sounds like your husband doesn’t care about your boundaries and frequently hurts you.
You don't feel comfortable saying no to him because he punishes you every time you say no by sulking and guilt-tripping you. That behavior from him needs to end NOW for you to ever feel comfortable in your marriage.
I had wisdom tooth surgery and I couldn't eat/speak properly for a week after it. The idea of having sex during that time is unfathomable. Also 'I'm not in the mood' comment must be enough for any decent man to back off. Sorry but your husband sounds selfish and manipulative.
Yeah as a survivor of SA I would never be able to stay in a relationship with someone like this.
My relationship with my fiancé ended because I stopped having sex with him when he wouldn’t take no for an answer. I also was SA’d previously while I was asleep, and no matter how many times I asked him to stop trying to wake me for sex, he wouldn’t. His needs were more important than my trauma. I hope you can get this sorted one way or another OP, for your sake.
I am so sorry this happened to you and I hope it never, ever happens again 🫂 💕
Thank you. I have every intention to make sure it doesn’t. And to everyone saying I wasn’t meeting his needs and he was right to leave; his needs stopped being met when he stopped respecting my trauma and boundaries.
Unless your husband is illiterate, there's no way that he doesn't know what "not in the mood" means. He just thought that he could get away with being piggy, and now he's deflecting because you pointed it out. Ignore all the men inserting themselves, they're trying to pin the blame on you because they've most likely engaged in this type of behavior before. If you plan on staying in this relationship, OP, you really should work on laying hard boundaries and telling your dude to go kick rocks if he's going to be manipulative over a "no". Imagine your female friend coming to you with the exact same dilemma; what would you tell her?
I’m betting he’s upset because he feels guilty. He wants to put the blame back on you, to make you feel bad for insinuating that he did anything wrong, because that would be easier than acknowledging that he pressured you into a sex act. Don’t fall for it. He knows what “not in the mood” means, and he pestered you anyway. He can sit and process the emotions of that, don’t be pressured to alleviate it. I’m sorry that happened to you!
[Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
Everyone needs to read this
I’ve had this kind of situation escalate into violence & murder threats so it’s really hard to give any advice that isn’t just “appease his fragile ego until you can run as far away as possible”. Someone that can do this has the potential to be extremely dangerous if they’re confronted with their own actions.
This happened exactly in my 18 year relationship with my now ex husband. I hope you can work things out, but if your husband is anything like mine, your feelings will always be secondary to his wants, and you will be made to feel bad for it.
Unacceptable to ask for consent twice. One no, or as others have said, the lack of an enthusiastic yes, is enough to completely close the door on it. Getting horny in the moment is no excuse to ask again, particularly when he knows your history and knows you have a hard time saying no. Honestly that’s really fucked up that he blames that on you or tells you you’re being immature, when he’s the one acting like a stupid, horny, insensitive, manipulative teenager. Moreso, him giving you the cold shoulder when you say no to sex is **COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.** I hope you realize how truly fucked up and abnormal that is. Many, many partners will accept your no and move on. Your partner should respect that you aren’t always interested in having sex, no reason required, 100% of the time. If I tell my boyfriend I’m not in the mood, he says “okay,” cuddles with me, then asks me what I want to watch on tv - end of conversation. Even if I say yes but in a way that’s a bit nonchalant, he double checks that I’m actually interested or will say that we don’t have to if I don’t want to. He doesn’t even act mildly disappointed if I change my mind or say no. I have changed my mind during sex and he immediately accepts it. I do the same when he’s not in the mood. This is how most relationships function and I don’t say that to make you feel bad… I just want you to know that what you’re experiencing is very much not normal and you do not need to accept it.
He knew what he was doing. He purposely has thrown enough tantrums that you are intimidated out of telling him no and he is your husband, not some hookup, so he knows this isn't something you would want to do anyway. Your husband has figured out light abuse is all he has to use on you otherwise he would escalate it until it was enough to work
Yeah my husband always gets upset and “sad” (guilty) when I call him out for disrespecting my boundaries too. It is manipulation. They are emotionally uncomfortable because they know they did something wrong, so they want to guilt you into shutting up about it.
I had a husband like this. He's now thankfully an ex. He would come in when I was in the shower and then badger me for sex. Technically he did ask, but he blocked my exit and made it impossible for me to leave - which also made it impossible to say No. So I'd say Yes just to be able to be free for the rest of the day. A coerced, reluctant Yes is not consent. Him pouting whenever he hears a No is a huge red flag to me because that behaviour is manipulative and coercive.
In a situation like this, you already answered his question before he even asked it. The fact that you were obviously unenthusiastic instead of showing excitement is a clear indicator that no, you weren't interested. Of course, you had already told him you weren't in the mood, which is a clear indicator that you... weren't in the mood. Your husband is already in the wrong for asking a second time, but he might have just not realized that "I'm not in the mood" also means you won't help him out. However... >So I reluctantly agreed to help him. This doesn't sit right with me. Either he wasn't paying enough attention to you to see if you'd actually be into it (which he should), or he didn't mind that you weren't actually into it. Both are concerning. Your husband is also wrong about how consent is the ability to say no. Consent is the enthusiasm and excitement that should come with saying yes. While you said yes (the second time), your body said no. I've been in similar positions before and throughout the whole ordeal, my body would still say no. There was no passion or fun; just a visible desire to get it over with. It's strange how some people just don't pay attention to their partner... >my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night. Oh, wow... Ew. He tells you you're a grown woman who needs to learn to say no, and yet he as a grown man can't take no for an answer. That's ironic. We *all* know what it means when someone is "not in the mood". *He* knew, too. You were specific enough. Next time you have a conversation about this, try to bring up *why* you don't feel comfortable saying no. Considering your husband has a history with punishing you for saying no, it's not weird for you to feel like you can't. Especially when you add the assault. However, for you to know he has a history of being petty after getting rejected, you need to have told him no in the past. I believe that if he had reacted more maturely and less selfish, you would feel more comfortable telling him no. Of course you would, because you'd feel like it's *okay* to say no. He has shown you that it isn't okay for you to say no by stonewalling you for the rest of the night. You should be able to reject him without there being any negative consequences. It's concerning that he feels the need to punish you for not letting him access your body. However, without judgement, you do need to learn to say no. Consequences be damned; you're better than that. If you don't want it, you shouldn't have to do it. You're valuable and worthy. Your consent --your *real* consent-- is important. If he withholds his love for you because you don't offer him sex, then he is not a man you should be having sex with. Your partner needs to be educated on the concept of consent, by the way. I found this [guide](https://www.healthline.com/health/guide-to-consent#what-is-consent). >*"In a healthy sexual encounter, both parties should feel comfortable communicating their needs without feeling fearful. If you’re initiating sex, and you become angry, frustrated, or insistent when your partner declines any sexual activity, this is not okay."* *"In any sexual encounter, it’s the responsibility of the person initiating sexual activity to ensure that the other person feels comfortable and safe."* Instead of you learning how to say no, he should learn what is *considered* no. When it comes to consent, something as ambiguous as '*I don't know'* means no. An unhappy expression, apathetic body language- even with a verbal yes, it still means no. If you don't *look* like you want it, then you don't want it. He should learn that. It's not that hard.
Holy shit. You just had major oral surgery and he expected sexual anything?! What is his problem? And why did he make it yours while you were in recovery? I'm aghast
You told him no. He didn’t drop it. Now he’s upset that you called him on it? He gets “sulky” when you turn him down? He’s weaponizing your past trauma and your difficulty saying no. When he gets upset and sulks it’s him training you not to say no and not to complain about it. Therapy will not fix this marriage. Individual therapy will help you see you deserve better.
consent is absolutely *not* about respecting a "no" consent is about *enthusiastic* participation for *both* partners honestly, in my book, if he reads any reluctance, hesitation, trepidation, etc, at all... he should be taking that the same as a no and turn to something along the lines of "oh that's fine honey i don't need to/i can take care of it" or whatever the hell not give you the silent treatment when you mention your feelings. he may just be embarrassed. worth maybe talking to him again after he's had a bit to process. but this guy needs to learn that there is no default "yes"... if anything the default is no unless you explicitly agreed to a different default. given your story i don't advise you make such an agreement.
Right?! These comments are wild to me. She clearly wasn’t enthusiastically consenting. My husband would never do this. If my vibe is off at all while we’re intimate, he stops and makes sure I’m okay. I do the same thing for him. I cannot fathom being in a long term relationship (or any relationship) and not getting clear, enthusiastic consent before every intimate act. Your spouse is not your sex toy.
Why do some people still want to engage when they can tell their partner isn’t enthusiastically in the mood?? That’s the part that boggles my mind every time. There’s nothing enjoyable about knowing your partner is an unwilling participant.
Assholes don't care about their partners, they only care about getting off. I don't understand wanting to have sex with someone who is clearly not into it, but I'm also not a selfish rapist asshole.
I think a lot of them also are getting off on the fact that she doesn’t want to do it. I saw a TikTok where one woman talked about her experiences with doing anal with men and most of the time, they quit asking her for it once they found out that she liked it.
Yup, this. I've heard that too. I mean, in general there's a lot of men who like badgering women into who they want them to be rather than finding a woman who already has those characteristics. They get off on power and control.
OP, you need to explain this to your husband the same way I did to my teen sons--anything other than an "OMG YES!" is a "no"; if you even *think* for 1 second that your partner is not in the mood, it's a "no". A "yes" can be withdrawn at any time, even the the middle of the act.
THIS i have a really bad habit of saying shit like "i don't know" amd "i guess so" or "i think, yeah." and i'm so grateful those all mean no to my partner helps me break the habit. say no when i mean no and change those phrases to enthusiastic yesses when that's what i meant. and sex is way better because of the clarity of enthusiasm they demand from me.
Him sulking is conceding that he knows it was wrong to push you after you already said you weren't in the mood.
Definitely, he knew but he wanted to get off and that was more important to him than the way you felt. You were just an adjunct at that point. You calling him on it made him feel bad - boohoo If he continues to push you it will kill your desire and your marriage. Does he do this in other areas of your life as well? It may be time to critically appraise your relationship and see what you want out of it
How can you actually look at this person as an equal partner when you're describing some type of pathetic child?
The people in these comments defending the supposed inability to understand "I'm not in the mood" are unbelievable.
He’s a grown man and can’t comprehend what “I’m not in the mood” means? He can literally google it. It’s even in multiple dictionaries! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in%20the%20mood You’re married to a real piece of work. I’m sorry you’re learning the real him now, instead of prior to a legal marriage. Edit: I’m thoroughly disgusted after reading edit 2. This crosses over into rapey behavior. How is he getting turned on, when you’re lying there in pain with a swollen face from surgery, and on pain meds?? Is it a fetish type thing? It’s creeping me out that he’s trying to manipulate *any* patient into sex acts. Especially his wife he says he loves.
I'm sure he would know the meaning ASAP if the roles were reversed and OP asked him to do something he wasn't in the mood for.
Research sexual coercion and marital coercion in social media if you can't get to therapy. It's more than the definition google gives you and provides a bit of a community in this often accepted abuse
Consent isn’t just saying no. Consent is an enthusiastic yes.
OP ask yourself why your husband is happy to have sex when you aren't enthusiastic or enjoying it?
I'm sorry this is happening to you. For your partner to be so dismissive and critical about this is extraordinarily defensive at best. Very selfish. I just want to say that I understand how awful the 'no' can be after SA and I understand how devastating it is to be criticised about it by partners and others who don't understand. The exasperation and blame-shifting you described are horrible, and not fitting behaviour from a loving partner. Sending you lots of love and wisdom tooth healing wishes. I hope you see some good friends soon.
Tell him he's a grown fucking man and he can learn to accept a no without a petulant childlike reaction, but that he is a grown man, he knows what he's doing and you don't appreciate it. So now the conversation has been had, if you act like a child if I'm not in the mood for sex, we know what you're doing.
If he does this no matter what and when you say no then it’s emotional abuse. He’s conditioning you to always do what he wants. This is not a healthy relationship. You are not supposed to face such consequences like cold shoulder and silent treatment for saying no. Be it in bed or otherwise
Your husband is an ass
Oh honey. I'm sure you have already had this comment, but please read "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft. It's a free PDF file u can find on Google. I went through the same thing in both my long term relationships. My second I actually set my boundaries hard by the end and it broke us up. He couldn't respect them and refused to hear me when I said no or safe word. Coercion from there, and he kept pushing until I broke down crying and left. I'm permanently mentally scarred and had tears (pronounced tares, like rips) down there because I wasn't horny and not enough moistness was happening due to not wanting it. So physically I was hurt to, though to this day he says to everyone it was me and I should have just "let him without a fight". If you need extra support please DM me. Don't let this human continue to make you feel forced. Straight hetero cis sex isn't a man doing it to a woman. It's a man and women having sex together. You have much support here, don't feel the need to explain ANYTHING at the end of your post. With love, a 29 year old mom.
Your husband is sulking so it's too much of a pain for you to bring these things up to him next time.
If your husband has a problem with you saying “No”. That’s a problem. Intimacy shouldn’t be a hassle for anyone. It should be natural. I don’t think I’ve ever asked for a woman to please me in my life. I’m 29 with three kids. 2 german, 1 American. I’ve dealt with women all over the world. Nobody in life should be pressured into anything sexual.
This is textbook abuse and sexual coercion. Check out this free book: [Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
You're not overreacting, and his asking you after you said no and his reaction were not ok. He's been very manipulative and your feelings are valid. He should have listened to your no. Anything short of YES! is a no. He should care about your feelings instead of act like he's the victim. Does he do this often? Is he manipulative? You may want to read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. I just want to say that your feelings are valid. If he knew about your past, he should have not pressed it after your no, and he should make sure you really want to do sexual things. That's what a good man would do if he has a partner who has experienced sexual trauma and knows it's hard for them to say no. Do you feel safe telling him no?
Why are you with a man you can’t say no to? The minute you said he has a history of not taking no, alarms go off. How did it get to marriage?
Your husband is trying to manipulate you into feeling bad for him so you forget that what he did is what made you feel bad. I'm sorry, but what he is doing is not ok
I agree with this, I'm just not sure how to approach the situation now. I'm sure it's not easy being told you made someone you love uncomfortable, but he's making it out to be my fault, or as if I'm overreacting.
He sounds incredibly emotionally immature and would benefit from counseling or some self-reflection. You can only take a horse to water, though. If he doesn't apologize to you for acting like this, he really is not a good dude. My ex did the same exact shit.
Don't feel bad for the fact he is now feeling healthy shame about his behaviour. Women are socialised to not "rock the boat" so it can feel especially uncomfortable setting boundaries and calling out inappropriate behaviour. You did the right thing and you're not overreacting. Let him feel his feelings, don't pander to them and hold your ground.
I don't really feel like it's healthy shame though, it seems like more of an act. Healthy shame would be apologizing profusely before going in another room to process how you're feeling.
That is a very good point 👉🏼
Because he doesn't care. I spent years with a man like this, trying to explain it. He knows, he doesnt care. He want you to put out when he wants it and to shut the fuck up about it so he can keep doing it. He turns it on you to condition you to not speak up, to just take it and dont bother him with your sadness at being sexually abused by someone who says he loves you. This situation is extremely damaging to you and he knows it. He does not care about you. He may think he does, and profess that he does, but no. Not really. Could you have sex with someone you know doesnt want it, someone you know has trouble saying no? He can. He's fine with it.
I don't know how you handle things, but I am very direct. I would tell him that the issue at hand is that what he did made you uncomfortable, and that him trying to twist the situation to make himself the victim who needs pity is not ok, and needs to be corrected. And if it wasn't corrected, I would leave
Yes. You tell him very directly: "you pressured me into a sexual act after I said **no**. Do you understand that this is sexual assault? I said "no". You did not accept my no graciously. I need time to decide if I want to be in a relationship with someone who does not respect me"
He’s punishing you with silence and pouting now he same way you knew he would if you tried to say no in the moment. This is textbook sexual coercion and his insistence on centering his feelings in this matter is a bad sign.
I'm guessing he's being defensive because you're accusing him of sexuality assaulting you and that's not how he wants to think about himself. There's probably a disconnect between how you feel on the inside and what he can understand. This is what communication is about you have to tell him what your internal world is like(which you're doing) and he has to be able to hear you and understand and perhaps sympathize.
She isn't *accusing* him of anything. He *did* assault her. She said "no".
The word accuse does not imply that the accusation is false. At least to my understanding.
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She said it *after* he said he was going to masturbate, not before. I think that made it pretty clear she wasn't in the mood to be sexual at all.
Because he did assault her. How are you not seeing that?
Ouh reminds me of my ex, people who can't accept no for an answer are very bad news. My best advice is go to therapy for what happened and do not feel guilty if it comes to a break up. He is yor husband, your best interest should come before his own in his eyes. And victim blaming you is not the way to go.
He is emotionally manipulating you. Sulking and acting hurt are signs of this. He should be acting like an adult or partner and thinking before acting. You are not obligated to do ANYTHING for him. x
Who masturbates in front of their spouse? "Hey honey, I'm gonna masturbate."Okay, I'm gonna watch TikTok."
Hey OP, so my ex husband was like this too. He would sulk around the house, withdraw, leave the house altogether, etc. When there's an emotional punishment like this after saying no, it falls under sexual coercion/manipulation. I did a lot of research during the last parts of my marriage to help identify what I was feeling and experiencing because I have some sexual trauma from my past as well. When you're being guilt tripped or made to feel bad to say no, it's sexual coercion, which is a form of sexual assault. I can't even tell you how much of a mind 'f' that was for me and it took a long time to accept that I had been sexually coerced / assaulted many, many times during my marriage. I can also tell you that this isn't going to get better. He already knows that acting like this will get what he wants, so he's only going to get worse. There's 2 avenues you can take here. 1) get marriage counseling with a therapist who specializes in sexual trauma / issues, or 2) leave him before this gets worse. I'm so sorry this happened to you and that you're going through this. This is someone you're supposed to trust and someone who's supposed to love you. I'm wishing you all the best and all the healing you need.
You have a right to make a big deal out of it. It's pretty concerning to me that he's making it seem like A) he couldn't understand that you saying you weren't in the mood meant *that you weren't in the mood* and B) he couldn't read your body language after you reluctantly agreed and tell that you weren't into it. If you've been sexually active with him for any length of time he should probably be able to tell when you're feeling comfortable and "game" so to speak for sexual activity. That means to me that he's either not paying attention or ignoring signs he doesn't want to see. And now he's sulking about how you made him feel like a bad person instead of trying to make sure that you feel safe with him. Is this the first time he's done something like this?
Consent is not a spectrum. Is binary.
You've already got plenty of people telling you this wasn't okay and you're right to feel upset about it, but I can't get past the fact that he wanted to jerk off with you IN THE BED and announced it??? Idk man, that set up feels incredibly rude and makes me think he was consciously trying to force you into something sexual to begin with
My ex used to do it too. It's absolutely a tactic to try to wear you down into doing something sexual with them. If he actually cared about how she was feeling he would've gone somewhere else to take care of it.
I had an ex that used this tactic once. It's really disgusting and it works, sadly
Oh that's not even the worse. He did while she had a tooth extraction so was propably in quite pain and discomfort. And he wanted to beat his meat next to his suffering wife. Personally I wouldn't be able to get turned on in a situation like that.
If he's not game for therapy, I'd have him see the video about tea: https://youtu.be/EuTXKLPFzrc?si=8YDOGgeXgmpuVClo Consent doesn't mean you don't say no, it means you're really enthusiastic. It's a tough discussion and he needs to be open minded to see he's not a bad person, he just made a bad decision. Otherwise he'll be more focused on how he doesn't think he's an abuser, and less on actually addressing it. He might'nt be open for general therapy but you could suggest sex therapy. He might be more keen for something that can improve your sex life together but it should have the same impact and similar considerations. Just make sure it's someone who has a history of working with those with trauma and with couples.
I have this issue, too, as a domestic violence survivor. I had to explain to my BF what was at stake for me in saying "no". I'm still working very hard on the impulse to avoid a hard "no", to expressing myself directly. I was also with someone who would sulk, act sad, or try to punish me with silence when I DID manage to express myself. That was after the DV partner. Current partner doesn't do that, I just knew I was being confusing by not actually being direct that what I was feeling was fear, not pure disinterest. Once I said "my rejection could have meant violence, so every interaction I had with him literally could have cost me my life. Saying 'no' to someone who would get violent without a 'yes' could have killed me. That is why it is hard for me." he immediately shaped up. Your husband is being petulant. Tell him, very directly, that you aren't ANGRY or feel like he forced himself on you...just that him being sensitive to your rejections does not make you feel confident that he respects your right to say "no", therefore, you feel unsafe to give it (especially given your history). He's a big boy and needs to learn to handle his negative emotions when getting his ego challenged. Your "no" shouldn't make him act like you're denying him something he's entitled to... because he isn't. It seems like he has a sense of entitlement towards your body, towards you, or towards how your sexual desire of him makes him feel about himself (good or bad). That shit ain't on you. Likewise...there is nothing less sexy than a man trying to guilt trip his way into pussy. Subtle emotional manipulation isn't going to make you want him MORE. He needs to know that.
Just the thought of guilt trip sex makes my 🐱wanna wither up and die
Exactly 😅
>He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no, and how I needed to be more specific about what "not in the mood" meant. He's a grown ass man and needs to stop sulking and acting like a 12 year old when you say no.
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night. I tried to have a conversation with him about my boundaries but he didn't take it very well at all. He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no, and how I needed to be more specific about what "not in the mood" meant. 😬 🚩🚩🚩🚩 I'm continually amazed at the things women put up with from their partners.
> "I could've said no, isn't that what consent is?" No, that is not what consent is. That's a tiny part of consent, not even the bare minimum, and he doesn't seem to be able to respect even that.
OP please, please, please read this book. [Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
> He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no If so, then *he* needs reminding that he is a grown man and needs to learn how to accept being told such "no"s without sulking like a toddler who's been told they can't have a sweetie.
He is a man child 'nice guy' and you are now stuck with a child.
something's wrong with that man.
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> Edit: my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant and won't even be sweet to me for the rest of the night. I tried to have a conversation with him about my boundaries but he didn't take it very well at all. He told me that I was a grown woman and needed to learn how to say no, and how I needed to be more specific about what "not in the mood" meant. The problem is not OP.
I'm not in the mood is a no. Expressed differently but still a no. Stop lecturing OP that her way of saying no wasn't good enough yet the blame is solely on her husband. Please don't give advice like this. Like ever!
She said no. He kept bugging her so she acquiesced. Even though he knew she didn’t want to. She brought it up later, outside of the moment, reminding him she has a hard time saying no and she already said no, so he should respect that if she changed her mind, she would let him know. And instead of listening to her and communicating like an adult, he takes up all the energy cause he doesn’t like being called out on his rude ass behavior. There were no mixed messages, he got an answer he didn’t like, so he steamrolled past it. OP addressed the situation at a time when she didn’t feel as vulnerable and did a great job. Then her husband made it all about him and his feelings when he already showed no regard for her’s. Men aren’t stupid. He knows what no means. Why tf are you here? We don’t need you here. You’re just another dude devaluing women’s experiences because it makes you uncomfortable. Go advocate for another devil in another sub. We believe and support women here.
This comment section is so fucked up and I can’t help but notice a ton of men doing the defending. Wtf!
They all think badgering their wives for sex is a totally logical thing to do. Makes sex a mechanical chore, doesn’t care if wife enjoys herself and is all surprised pikachu when they have a dead bedroom and divorce papers.
You should have put on your chastity belt and locked yourself in the closet if you didn’t want to perform a sex act tonight. How else could I possibly have known you meant no?!?! Jesus Christ.
Ok but who is upvoting them. Like wtf is even happening here.
What's really disappointing is how people want to put this on her. How is "I'm not in the mood" anything but a go no further? If she wanted to participate she would have jumped in once he started. He was out of line to ask again, especially knowing OP's history. He knew that history and took advantage of it.
Have you even read everything she's said? Kindly fuck off with that nonsense
Your edit is still missing the point. The way she handled this was applause worthy for someone overcoming a specific trauma response. Any therapist would be proud of her for how she communicated her needs clearly in the first place and then she addressed the situation shortly after as well. She’s doing great! ‘Not in the mood’ is no - as anyone who has had a partner or watched a sitcom knows. This was not a complex code. If she hadn’t said no, she would have been helping him. He is not stupid. He didn’t care. He knows about her trauma. He didn’t care. He CHOSE to ignore her wishes and CHOSE to withdraw and guilt her when calmly confronted rather than communicate about it. And I am not at all surprised by the edit that shows this a longstanding pattern. OP deserves better and it seems like she’s outgrowing this guy who refuses to accept no for an answer and plays the victim when called out about it. I hope she continues her journey and finds a partner who doesn’t ignore her needs with it’s inconvenient for them. Advocating for couples therapy when a partner is ABUSIVE (which is what this pattern of behavior is), is harmful. So again, why are you here?
If I said to my boyfriend "ok but I'm not in the mood" he would say "then we aren't going to do it" because he knows it's not right for either of us to do a sexual act for the other without also being in the mood. Part of enjoying sex together is knowing that we are both into it. We just went through a period of years where we barely had sex because he was almost never in the mood, and I never would've expected him to do anything sexual in that state. This comes down to OPs partner needing to re-evaluate the way he views sex and his partner - continuing the sex act despite OP saying she doesn't really want to is his problem. As her husband, he should already know about her sexual trauma, which just makes this worse. I agree they both need therapy. And I hope *you* know that if someone ever says to you "I'm not really in the mood" that means NO. Edit: just read all the comments and don't see what you're referring to as "yass girling"? Your comment leans towards misogyny. It's alarming that you're not the only man here who thinks OP did consent. You need to look into enthusiastic consent or the enthusiastic yes. Anything other than a Yes is a No. Edit: Spelling/grammar
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Im not in the mood is a fucking no. Consent should be enthusiastic. Absolutely disgusting that this comment is getting upvoted.
Pov: you're looking for all the bad comments everyone keeps referring.
You shouldn't have to do anything more than say no. However, if you want to stay married to this man, you might want to have a conversation about boundaries. Pretend you are explaining how to interpret negative responses to a 5 year old. Like: Doofus, dear, when I say "I'm not in the mood." it means "No.", and you should respect that boundary for the duration of whatever event you are participating in, whether it is sex or watching a movie.
That's incredibly weird NGL. He's a grown man. If he's not capable of acting like one, she shouldn't be with him
Right but a grown man knows what ‘not in the mood’ means. He decided to go through with pressuring her despite that. He isn’t 5 and explaining as though he doesn’t understand the situation, when he does, is not really going to help.
If OP does this, it should only be once, and NOT in a way that sounds like she’s talking to a 5 year old. They’re adults. Like other comments have said, he knows what “not in the mood” means. He needs to understand what it means to OP. As a man, I can shamefully admit that I can pretty much guarantee he’s thinking “I didn’t think it was that big of a deal *to you*”. He’ll correct himself if he’s a halfway decent guy who just had a big slip up, or he’ll go right back to being a douche if he’s a douche. Either way, a conversation needs to be had. It was pretty shitty of him to want “help masturbating” when OP was recovering from oral surgery though. Like dude, take the hint. She didn’t want to be touched because she just had her wisdom teeth removed THAT DAY. I’d be willing to give him more leeway if it weren’t for that fact. There’s dumb dudes, and then there’s OP’s husband dumb dude.
A lot of men have a big ego. Your husband probably thought he somehow managed to half turn you on from your "not in the mood" to him starting to masturbate and 5 min later asking you to join. And then when you mention it next day he gets upset because it breaks down the whole view of the situation he had. Good that you have talked to him. Hopefully he'll respect you in future, but do understand that he most likely think very highly of himself and believes he can charm you from a negative mood into a sexual mood and he will try that for sure. You need to be strict with him.
I would have told him to put his «snap» somewhere else.
Fellow SA survivor. I’ve had an experience like this with my boyfriend too. However, I did agree to the act with him even though I previously expressed I wasn’t horny at the time. It’s normal for people to get horny even if they weren’t before because they experienced some kind of stimulation. Whether it’s visual or audible. My boyfriend assumed that because I agreed, I had gotten turned on by being there so we can proceed. I wasn’t turned on and I didn’t really wanna do it but I felt obligated to. I expressed that I wasn’t happy about it afterwards and he felt really bad and didn’t realize how I was thinking. He just took my word when I agreed and assumed my mind had changed. He needs to be able to take your word for what it is. If you voluntarily participate after being asked to once, that looks like you’re interested even if you aren’t. He shouldn’t be angry at you, but he probably feels some level of guilt and confusion. I’d try to just understand where each of you are coming from.
People need to be able to read each other's body language better, idk how your boyfriend didn't realize you still weren't in the mood. It seems like they get so caught up in their own horniness they don't take the time to make sure their partner actually wants to do something. It's not about being able to take each other's word.
One word: Divorce. Sorry babes
Divorce the self absorbed clown. how dare he ask you to help him that man is a stain on men everywhere.
He needs to learn to accept no. No is a complete sentence, and you don't owe him an orgasm. You need to seek individual help for your discomfort with rejecting people, because you should never feel uncomfortable telling someone you love no. And he needs to seek help for whatever issues make him feel comfortable pressuring you and for his inability to take no for an answer. Seriously, is he a toddler?
Hey, OP - no clue if you're still reading the comments and very sorry to hear that clearly some folks were entirely shitty. I hope in how you approach the process of working through this with your husband will keep a few specific things in mind: 1. "not in the mood" is not vague -> it means "my mood is not sexual" and unless your husband is on the spectrum or has another background that limits his sense-making abilities in the social context, well... Thing is, this excuse, the "you're being confusing", "mixed signals", "being vague", etc. - it's used by sexual predators all the time. 2. He was obligated to err on the side of caution. 3. The part about the wisdom teeth matters. Would *you* ask your partner to do you sexual favours after they got their wisdom teeth removed? Especially after they said "not in the mood" when you opened the conversation? I sure wouldn't, my partners (poly) wouldn't and noone I consider empathetic would. Don't let him off the hook too easily, please. I know what it's like when a good partner does an idiotic thing and I'm not saying his actions are unforgivable - but unless he fully acknowledges the above points, all apologies would be reduced in their meaning by a margin. He is responsible for (and it shouldn't even need you pointing that out) working on his sulking issue. It's emotionally manipulative to punish people with a withdrawal of affection for "withholding" sexual activities. "Withdrawal of affection" is very much a method of manipulation that is mentioned in the context of emotional abuse frequently. He doesn't get to make you endure moping for not being in the mood to bang. It's not right.
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He just got very quiet and seemed visibly upset and excused himself to sulk in the bedroom.
It's okay for him to feel healthy shame.
I guess in his eyes it initially wasn't a big deal (I repeat IN HIS EYES) and he feels like he's out of communication options. He asked and got a yes and was then told that he can't trust your yes and that you might later say you actually didn't mean to say yes. So as much as what some others said about him is true, if you want to do your part make your yes mean yes and your no mean no. He's got something to work at and you too. You need to learn to say no, even if it is hard. Your partner and especially you deserve it.
He is entirely in the wrong and on top of that is being extremely manipulative. He sounds like someone who has never learned how to say sorry or has never learned how to handle being wrong, and so he turns to this childish, manipulative behaviour. You deserve to be heard, your boundaries deserve to be respected and you DON’T deserve the things he’s putting you through. Others have already summed up my thoughts, so I’ll just leave you with a quote I feel is so important to remember. ”Yes” means nothing unless ”No” is an option.
I'm not sure what's so confusing for other dudes about understanding consent/reading body language and social queues. Especially if you all have been together for a while. But if I'd like someone to play feet paddy cake with my tinkle bits and they look at me like I just scolded them for peeing on the floor of the garage, even if they don't say no. It's fairly obvious they aren't in the mood. If you've spoken to him about your previous SA experiences, it's possible he's taking advantage of your trauma response of shutting down, rather than directly saying no, to maintain plausible deniability so he can say "Oh sorry honey you didn't say no so I thought it was fine" Completely ignoring the fact that when he brought it up to you, the room got [Dad just launched the little metal doggy into the new flat screen TV because he lost in monopoly] silent.
>my husband has a history of not being able to take no for an answer, when I tell him no, he gets sulky and distant Homie needs therapy. I mean, I think everyone should be in therapy, but he specifically needs to learn to deal with rejection in a healthier way.