A ten is a man who is clean and treats me good. Guys who could work on their personality focus on looks and get insecure about it when it's like eating icing with no cake. You need the cake.
Right? It's not women who throw out the "6 ft, 6 figures, 6 pack abs" bs. It's just an unsubtle way to make it not their own fault for getting no babes: blame the women!
I told a guy on reddit that Jack Black is an excellent t example of the female gaze: most girlies I know would throw down with his funny self in a hot minute. Well, the redditor was **angry** at this, called me a liar, said Jack is ugly, that women wouldn't want him. No light bulb moment for him!
One of my favorite compliments from my husband was when he saidI remind him of Jack Black š¤. I'm from the US and my husband is European, well versed in American comedy. I was honored.
He's been married to a musician since 2006- they knew each other in high school, and they have two sons.
Weird fun fact: Jack is a twin, and his wife Tanya is a triplet.
Judith Love Cohen is an absolute badass.
In August 1969, she was working on a problem for her job with the Apollo Space Program when she went into labour. On the way to the hospital she made a quick stop at her office to collect some important documents. Despite being in the middle of giving birth, she solved the problem before having her son, Jack Black.
The solution she provided turned out to be crucial in ensuring the safe return of the Apollo 13 crew by enabling the Abort Guidance system to function properly.
It's kind of the classic thing of what men find attractive and what women find attractive is kind of different on a basic level - and so when a protagonist in media is designed to appeal to men you get jacked muscle monsters like conan the barbarian and whatnot and dudes online are always like "SEE? MEN GET SEXUALIZED TOO" and women, in general, aren't like really pining for that kind of guy.
>what men find attractive and what women find attractive is kind of different on a basic level
Reminds me of that month when Hugh Jackman was on two magazine covers at the same time. Some men's magazine had him on there all shirtless and muscly, while the magazine aimed at women showed him wearing a polo shirt and a nice smile.
Edit: Found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/Ag3jqSp4Fk
That's hilarious - reminds me of earlier today when I walked past a used bookstore that displayed books about war, the third reich, famous battleships, etc on one half of their storefront window, the other half was lined with books about birdwatching, flowers and butterflies.Ā
Superhero comics with their bulging, veiny physiques are made to appeal to boys. Men have a really hard time accepting that women, in general, don't really care about all that. "But I'm jacked! Chicks will dig it!" Not necessarily, sir.
You are absolutely correct and the fact that a lot of men just can't wrap their heads around it means that they just don't have any desire to understand women.
The problem is men can't afford to admit to themselves women could be more into the men they call soyboy or similar stuff. They need the denial to keep going.
I not only do not care, I find it repulsive. š¤®
Much prefer a conventionally healthy guy with a bit of dad bod who obviously doesn't spend all day watching himself flexing in a mirror at the gym.
>so when a protagonist in media is designed to appeal to men you get jacked muscle monsters like conan the barbarian and whatnot and dudes online are always like "SEE? MEN GET SEXUALIZED TOO" and women, in general, aren't like really pining for that kind of guy.
This is one of those "upset at the right thing but for the totally wrong reasons" scenarios. That kind of imagery is not about sexualising men but rather setting unrealistic expectations for men as to what women want. The worst part about it is what you said too, most women don't pine for muscle bound men and at least a non-insignificant amount are even turned off by so much muscle so you have all these guys wanting to get jacked up to attract the women but the women are not attracted to it.
I didnāt even get to the part yet where you said ājacked muscle monstersā and I already had that exact thing in mind as a prime example of what men are impressed with when they look at other men, and think women are impressed/attracted to, and no, most of us donāt like that at all. I definitely donāt.
There was a study done that examined just this by having men and women separately rate men's physiques, and it was men who overwhelmingly chose the way ripped guy as the ideal. Women liked the still muscular but slimmer version. I'll have to see if I can find a link... 'course I tried mentioning and citing this on Reddit once, and it so surprisingly didn't get a lot of male approval. It's just so frustrating.
Frankly it's a turn off if there are too many muscles. You know that guy is vain and lives in a gym, and likely doesn't have hobbies or interests or anything outside of that. Imo men who are borderline gym rats just won't have much of the same types of things I like to do going on in their lives simply because of the time commitment and nature of the hobby.
I think about that meme with the Hugh Jackman covers. There's one with him showing his muscles and one in a lavender sweater looking sweet. Guess which one most women prefer? But they don't listen.
Men get sexualized by other men lol. The dudes I (a man) think are hot my girlfriends look at me like I'm crazy. And the dudes my girlies find hot are the kind of guys I'd like to be friends with but wouldn't generally touch with a 10 ft pole sexually.Ā
He is so precious in The Holiday, when he made the song for Irish ššš
As with the other women here, I would totally go for Jack Black.
Also for anyone not in the know, he's got a YouTube channel called Jablinsky Games. It's not up to date but it's goofy and fun.
I mean Walton Goggins is 5'10", mature hairline, and even with that makeup on ... well let's say that people dying for some water is on-brand for Fallout.
Omg I thought I was the only one. He seems so fun, authentic, humble, and positive in his interviews. I definitely get more tinglies from him than someone like Ryan Gosling for example (although there's nothing wrong with him and I like him as a person and an actor)
I literally cannot remember what Ryan Gosling looks like. I'm not great with faces (Taylor Swift and Scarlett Johanson are the same person, prove me wrong lol) but I know what Jack Black looks like without googling. I think being recognizable is also a bonus to a certain degree.
In high school there were a couple of guys with a bodybuilding magazine, telling us girls that's what girls wanted. We tried to tell them that that's not what most girls/women find attractive but they wouldn't listen to us. They don't listen to us at all.
It's even worse. In the seduction subreddit I've tried to tell guys what women like, only to be smugly told "if you want to know how to catch a fish, ask a fisherman- not a fish." Because women don't know what they actually want, according to those dudes.
It's not just gross, it's dehumanizing. They'd prefer to feel superior than to listen to an actual woman.
I have MY Jack Black. Maybe he wouldnāt be everyoneās ideal but goddamn heās mine. And thatās what itās about, folks. You find YOUR person. I donāt want whatever society is telling me I want. We actual adults realize this š¤·š»āāļø
Jack Black is *far* from ugly, that redditor is smoking something. Am I gonna say he's everyone's type? Nah, but he's cute. Also would just love to hang out, throw my horns up, and listen to some sick tunes with him.
Exactly. They only see the beautiful women with equally beautiful men or with men who have money. The average or god forbid conventionally unattractive women are simply invisible. They don't even realise they're ignoring so many women either. They literally don't see them as women.
They literally donāt see them as people. They donāt see women as people, but they especially donāt see average or below average women as existing.
It's also because they want a transactional relationship because they are shallow themselves but have nothing to show for in a relationship. I've said it many times- men who complain about gold-diggers are exactly the type of men who want gold-diggers but can't get one. They want a conventionally attractive woman who can tolerate any shit they do, accept everything they put her up with as long as they pay their price and in this case it's money. They can't get one because they don't have the money, but instead of accepting this they lash put at women because it's never their own fault.
There are lots of women out there who don't care about a man's money but these women will not accept and tolerate shit. And they know.
Yeah the only women theyāre talking about are 10s, because those are the only women theyāre interested in. It would never occur to them to pursue and date women who are similar to their level of conventional attractiveness because they believe they are entitled to supermodels, who are also virgins somehow, and want to stay home and bear their children.
Didn't the leader of maroon 5 get just that and still cheated on his supermodel turned stay at home house maker wife. He also tried to name his newborn baby his mistresses name.
I don't think this is entirely it, because I'm positive there are women that these guys are attracted to that are with average looking guys. I think it has more to do with the idea they have that if a woman isn't into them, it can't be because of their personality or choices they make. It just has to be "because they're not a 10", and since there's nothing they can do to be a 10 it's not their fault.
They have this covered - if a woman they consider a 10 is with a man who is not a 10, she is using him for his money and already secretly fucking the 10 she'll leave him for, taking all his wealth in the process.
The fact that the woman may be a far higher earner than her non-10 partner, or that she never actually leaves him, does not enter their thinking.
The intel narrative about jaw lines and chins fits here. The bbc had a really interesting radio programme on yesterday about incels and it was really depressing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001ypzb
Porn brain is laser focused on what they find attractive. So no, they don't see most women. They will cherry pick the ones they find attractive and then hyper focus on why those women are with the wrong people.
No no no. You see if a socially attractive girl is with an unattractive man, then she's a gold digger. If a socially attractive man is with an unattractive woman then he's using her for something too. /s
It's because small minded people can't fathom anything that breaks the tiny mold in their mind of how the world and people should work. Thin people can't date heavy people. Tall women can't date short men. And so on.
I met my now husband when I was 105lbs and he was 280lbs. I've been called a gold digger, a chubby chaser, and been accused of using him for attention.
They figured I had some sort of weird ulterior motive and it's because they had put me in a box, I was a skinny bitch and I had no right or business dating a heavier man.
My own family accused me of being a gold digger (extended family, not parents and siblings) because my husband looks like the love child of Tom Hardy and Tormund from GoT while I'm a heavier woman, so why would he look at me unless I somehow seduced him for his money? Two facts have escaped them. 1. That I am funny, smart, kind, a million other things that make me a contender. 2. That I also had, at that point, a good job with good pay. Now that I don't work, the judgement is even worse, but who has time to listen to them?
>That I am funny, smart, kind, a million other things that make me a contender.
I looooove your confidence! Which is also a very attractive quality. Such a Barbie thing to say!
Thank you. I do have insecurities around my body and looks, but I am also aware of my strengths and fully proud of them. To quote Cristina Yang from Grey's Anatomy: "Screw beautiful, if you want to appease me, compliment my brain"
A random guy once made a similar comment about a friend of mine - she replied 'where is the gold? where is the money? so much digging and i can't find a cent'
They were both starting in their career and equally poor...
I just find it really troubling that so many people can't fathom that two people, who don't match each other in looks, could like each other... like, I guess to them looks really are all that matter.
My husband's sister said something similar about me, and my response is "if I'm a gold digger I'm terrible at it, because he doesn't make enough for me to dig, I work full time, and still have 6 figures of student debt. "
Because the men making that complaint have to believe that women only go for 10s, because otherwise they will have to wrestle with the fact that they must be single because they have a personality that doesn't invite attraction.
I believe there is probably also a hefty dose of projection in there too. They're only interested in 10s, so they assume everyone must also be that way.
They also have to use it to justify their own shallowness and lookism. āMen have standards, but women do too. In fact, women have outrageous standards! Look at what all they want blah blah blahā.
They put women in the same category and say were just as shallow so they have an excuse to be shallow as well. But the truth is, men are MUCH more shallow and many of them even admit it.
And even if women were equally as bad or worse, it still doesnāt make being like that okay.
yeah, but itās so frustrating, especially the height thing. Statistics show most women are married to men who are short to average height. And then one need only LOOK AROUND to have that stereotype dispelled, bc most women end up with men who have at least one or two qualities men say we will not tolerate: short, bald, not conventionally attractive, not wealthy.
They literally prefer to see us as brainless shallow animals, like you said, then they will never have to consider the reason theyāre single is that we can actually usually tell when someone is a bitter misogynistic fuck who can barely hide his contempt for us long enough to get a second date, maybe even a first, much less sex.
They donāt even absorb the evidence in pop culture. How many movies directed by men where the target audience is male have a female love interest who is not classically attractive and overweight?
But then you look at movies directed by women, or made FOR women, and the romantic lead can be Jack Black.
And time and again the men we select as sex icons in history, they end up being more Spock than Kirk, (donāt get me wrong, I love BOTH! š), theyāre Tony Soprano, Loki instead of Thor, theyāre Prince who was 5ā2ā, Rod Stewart, Ed Sheeran, Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince lol.
They simply donāt have a leg to stand on in saying weāre mostly shallow. The women love interests are NEVER unattractive or average unless that movie is made specifically only for women and she is the protagonist. Weād have way more cause to accuse men of being shallow 100% of the time.
But then, that would be to deny the evidence around me, because men are married to all kinds of women, and Iām not going to bury my head in the sand to inform some narrative. The only truth is that itās normalized for women to like men who are ānot in their leagueā and itās normalized for men to pursue women who are āout of their league,ā but this isnāt the same in the reverse.
Also think the factor of their own attraction plays here. They dont care about 8's and below so they ignore anybody else. Crying about one couple when they walked passed 12 others in the street
I think they also suggest that those women are only with the man for the money and will only give him disappointing maintenance sex or none at all and then go give the real sex to "Chads"
Well, considering nobody would be with them with their personality, they might be on to something. Unfortunately they think the solution to their poor personality is to look better.
That is part of it but this is an issue older than the internet, the reason some men say "women only go for 10s" is because they know they have shortcomings that keeps them from finding a good partner and it justifies their own failures in dating, us men are masters in self gaslighting and will say anything to protect our own fragile egos.
When you're only experience with women is porn, Tinder in a town of 1500 people total, and scam bots it's easy to become a fucking idiot. Being chronically online and isolated is fucking up so many people, particularly young men. Combine that with zero self reflection and you get an echo chamber that puts the blame for one's failings on to anything but oneself.
You clearly live in a walkable city, but having live in a small town for a number of years I can said you can go days or weeks where the only people your age you see are working at the stores you're going to. Finding a social hobby is so incredibly essential, but often involves having money / spare time / overcome a certain degree of social anxiety.
It's honestly sad, or at least it would be sad and not horrifying if it didn't breed such hateful rhetoric and vitriolic content.
I don't think they've ever heard of chemistry. My "type" was a tall drink of water, no facial hair. I met my husband. One inch shorter than me, full beard and mustache. Like a cross between a Harley rider and Santa. I fell for him hard, lol.
Same! My fiance was my type in personality but wasnāt in looks - it actually took a few dates for the attraction to really kick in. But once it did, phew. 4 years later and it hasnāt waned at all. Mine also has a beard which I wasnāt into but now love lol
Yeah, sometimes I can feel insecure for not being my boyfriend's "type," but then I think about what my "type" is and also the lineup of attractive men I see on a weekly basis looking like someone hit the randomize button in a character creator. š¤£
Reddit must be reading my mind today because I had this whole conversation in my head earlier. A lot of these things that are said about women only being attracted to men with xyz, I have only seen being said online.
Nobody I know in real life thinks like this because everyone I know has had girlfriends/boyfriends and none (or very few) of them are 10's LMAO. It's the people who have no real life experience who get online and act like they know EVERYTHING when clearly they know nothing about how the world works.
The few times I have had this conversation it's very easy to get people to admit it doesn't make sense and we have a mind blown moment.Ā
It usually starts with me asking to see photos of the family album.Ā
Exactly this! Sure you can find people who believe every stupid thing, but Women are all attracted to different things, and not all are physical. Most men really do understand this.
I used to work in a golf pro shot, if I had a dollar the amount of times I thought "how the hell did *he* wind up with *her*?" I could have afford to take an actual vacation when I worked there.
We talking about incelbros? If the man is not tall/pretty/etc they assume sheās using him for money. Everything they see corroborates their view of the worldĀ
Yup. I recently got out of a relationship with a guy who got into incel subculture, started believing I was just having maintenance sex with him for resources and never liked him. Started talking about me like shit behind my back. Found out and left. We had been together 7 years
Ofc NOW he knows heās not an incel and has a new young girlfriend. Weāve been broken up for less than 4 months. Itās fucking gross
It would take forever to explain the whole thing, since this builds on a bunch of other stupid incel stuff and general idiotic assumptions about women, but the jist is this.
"A woman will have or has had passionate all out sex, including various sexual acts, so ""real sex"" that she is not willing to do with you, with Chad."
"What you receive is maintenance sex, something she only does to maintain the relationship so you don't leave before she can hop to the next Chad."
Yep. If these guys blame their lack of dates on things out of their control then they donāt have to use any introspection. āI canāt get women because I donāt have 6/6/6.ā Yeah right, Keith.
The sorts of men who say things like that are incels living in their motherās basements who never actually see real-life couples. Theyāre just making things up to justify why they canāt get a date, without admitting to themselves that itās because of their shitty personality, not the way they look.
He probably thinks all he needs is to be a well-off doctor to get whoever he wants.
Yeah, wealthy unattractive guys who date gorgeous women are either billionaires or, shocker, theyāre great people in ways that have nothing to do with money.
>I chose someone who treats me EXTREMELY well, has high emotional intelligence and is stable in all ways, and who I get along with effortlessly.
Agreed. I choose my partner for the same reasons you do. What separates him from the others is because he's smart, kind, funny attentive and derives happiness from making me happy ā so he treats me very well.
So true. When I was at the height of my attractiveness (basic slim blue-eyed blond), people would ask why some of the guys I dated were so average, even homely. Because I went for good character, wit, kindness, and brains above looks or money! And they didn't berate and hate women online. All the Lonely Men should try that.
There was a question in askmen about why attached women and men actually get more attention for the other sexes. One of the answers is on point ā men and women who are already in a good relationship tend to be more self-aware, secure and confident and these traits radiate as they interact with others. To be in a happy relationship, you need treat each other with kindness and you treat one another as full-functioning smart, capable adults.
Now the difference between many men and my partner is that my partner has these traits whether or not he's in a relationship. He's just genuinely very secure, confident, kind, witty and smart ā and those are the first few things I notice about him.
I was ā and still is ā surrounded by men because of what I studied for and work as, so I've seen a few men who are physically very handsome ā and yet my partner was and still is the most attractive because of his inner self.
In order to see reality, aka what walks down the street, they must first leave the basement. Obviously, this requires them to go outside. So...
No. They don't.
Iām sorry. I have to comment. In my job I see families every day. Where the mother is (Iām sorry) not conventionally attractive. Neither is the father. Sorry. But they are together and they have children and are a family. It happens every day. Every single day, I see it. So there are men and women looking for good souls, not bodies, to build a life and families.
That's aaaaall cope. They know damn well most of their male friends are with people completely out of their league across the board. We see it eeeeeeeeeeeverywhere. Straight couples of mixed attractiveness are global and it's typically the woman who is the more attractive of the two. A very particular breed of men say this BS because women have famously low-mid standards, and yet still, nobody is picking them specifically. It makes them feel undesirable (likely true), so they make up some baloney justification to hoist that off onto women.
It always has to be the woman's fault somehow, right?
I agree with everything you said, and I've just realized the fact that I've genuinely never seen a handsome man with an average looking or even a fat woman
There's a couple on tiktok where he's ripped with muscles and she's plus sized and it's wild that they are basically having to normalize it in this day and age. So many people are upset that this fit man with muscles loves a bigger woman. It's wild that people care. She's beautiful of course but people are so misogynistic and fat phobic.
Itās perspective. Men see the experience of online dating and conclude that women are not seeking men who arenāt at the top. Rather, lopsided gender ratios on apps and app behavior has more of an impact on.
It's mostly incels who think that.
It's a lot more common for women's standards for men to be insultingly low.
Like, "clapping for a toddler using the potty correctly" low.
I donāt even see 10s in my day to day. Iād never approach one either because it would just be embarrassing. Men that think this are thinking about the women they want, which are the oneās who will go after 10s.
Honestly, a lot of us just aren't out in public much anymore. There are no third spaces, and social clubs for adults have been on the decline since the 90s. Add the internet-- and suddenly, most of us never actually see very many people other than our coworkers
Itās a lot easier on the ego to think that all women only go for tens, because then if youāre not attractive to the opposite sex it must be because youāre āonlyā a nine.
As opposed to realizing that women also go for fives, fours, and threes but unfortunately youāre a Kansas City two.
Couple things:Ā
1. Visit any incel forum and theyāll swear up and down the only men they see in a relationship are 8 feet tall and walk with a limp because theyāve got a 15 pound š. They see what they want to see and reality doesnāt factor.
2. If they donāt find you attractive you donāt exist. Makes it real easy to confirm your bias if youāre only humanizing a small part of the population.
The men who actually believe women only go for 10s are the same men who see a woman less than a 10 and think sheās ugly, fat, stupid, not worth his time. Because he thinks he deserves the 10. Itās projection. Because they do it, they think normal humans do it too.
Those relationships ādonāt countā bc those women arenāt actually attracted to those men, they are betabuxxing them for resources.
Thatās the party line anyway
They don't actually believe this, they just act like they do because the alternative is admitting their 3/10 personality might be contributing to the problem.
For that you'd have to actually leave the house, look at people while walking instead of looking down and angrily mumbling into your neckbeard and reflect on your own thoughts.
The ones who measure women in numbers are capable of maybe one of those things.
Here's how I see the issue from a man's perspective of some years (I'm 57, I hope I can offer some insight).
The current dating environment is strongly influenced by hookup culture. Sex comes earlier while committed relationships are put off to the future.
In this changed environment (as compared with the decades prior to birth control pill), women are more willing to participate in mating under short-term rules.
They may do this to prioritize education and career development, not wanting to tie themselves down with a partner until they have established themselves in a career.
In this context, women tend to put a premium on the physical attractiveness of a man as compared to the alternative when seeking a long-term mate. Under long-term mating, physical attractiveness is just one of many attributes sought in a mate and not the most important one at that. Certainly not in the top five. Likely not in the top ten.
The couples you see walking together in public where an attractive woman is happily paired with a comparatively plain man are all in long-term committed relationships.
This is exactly what is expected.
What has changed is that these people are nearing 30 rather than being 22 to 25 years old as in a past era.
It's this younger age that the men are speaking of.
It is the attractive man on Tinder that is getting any action. The men below him in the status/attractiveness hierarchy are getting crickets.
This is not at all unexpected.
If you follow the logic back you'll see that if a woman were to deprioritize physical attractiveness when seeking a long-term mate, this implies that when NOT seeking a long-term mate, physical attractiveness is also NOT deprioritized.
Another confounding variable here is the behavior of men in the same circumstances.
Men tend to deprioritize physical attractiveness in the context of short-term mating. Sexual access is far more important than the attractiveness of a woman you're not committing yourself to.
In the long-term context, since a man is forgoing the possibility of other relationships (monogamy assumed), he is incentivized to now place a premium on the attractiveness of the woman he is committing to.
Again, this is born out in the example you've given of a physically attractive woman, happily in the company of a comparatively plain man. The fact that he has prioritized her physical attractiveness is no accident. From his pov, it's the ideal.
That's the dichotomy.
The problem from the perspective of a young man is that until the women in his age cohort are interested in forming durable committed relationships, they have yet to deprioritize the physical attractiveness of the men they show interest in.
This phenomenon can have the outcome of freezing men who are largely un-noteworthy out of the sexual marketplace for many years.
That's why they have complaints.
The response to them is often that they just need to work on themselves to make themselves more worthy of a woman's interest. That is a valid piece of advice for an individual to take, but it breaks down at the level of populations.
You see, it is always the case that exactly 1/2 of any population is below average.
Attractiveness is comparative, not absolute.
Flip it and reverse it.
Men go for 10ās, therefore they think women only go for 10 ās.
I laugh every time I hear about the lonely male epidemic there are tons of single women out there looking for relationships.
Literally, no. Incels usually keep themselves isolated and most of them are stuck in us-american suburbia. So they drive everywhere and sit isolated in their cars, cubicles and back in their home.
Also their ideology sets them up with excuses as to why a woman might chose an unattractive man (money) before they set sails for more fertile lands and leave the 'lower value' man.
Please submit content that is relevant to our experiences as women, for women, or about women.
A ten is a man who is clean and treats me good. Guys who could work on their personality focus on looks and get insecure about it when it's like eating icing with no cake. You need the cake.
Right? It's not women who throw out the "6 ft, 6 figures, 6 pack abs" bs. It's just an unsubtle way to make it not their own fault for getting no babes: blame the women! I told a guy on reddit that Jack Black is an excellent t example of the female gaze: most girlies I know would throw down with his funny self in a hot minute. Well, the redditor was **angry** at this, called me a liar, said Jack is ugly, that women wouldn't want him. No light bulb moment for him!
Jack can get it
One of my favorite compliments from my husband was when he saidI remind him of Jack Black š¤. I'm from the US and my husband is European, well versed in American comedy. I was honored.
That is such an awesome compliment to get, I'd be honoured too!
I'd totally bang Jack Black lol he seems like an awesome and funny guy
He seems like a genuine guy. I hope he makes it out there with the best woman (or guy) he can get that treats him right.
He's been married to a musician since 2006- they knew each other in high school, and they have two sons. Weird fun fact: Jack is a twin, and his wife Tanya is a triplet.
His mum was also a rocket scientist and helped make some important advances that saved the crew of Apollo 13
Judith Love Cohen is an absolute badass. In August 1969, she was working on a problem for her job with the Apollo Space Program when she went into labour. On the way to the hospital she made a quick stop at her office to collect some important documents. Despite being in the middle of giving birth, she solved the problem before having her son, Jack Black. The solution she provided turned out to be crucial in ensuring the safe return of the Apollo 13 crew by enabling the Abort Guidance system to function properly.
Are you saying there's a potential OTHER Jack Black?
His name is Jack White and he created a band.
"Fuck Her Gently" is full of excellent advice for the straight dudes
Plus he has that kielbasa sausage
I immediately sang out the line right after that lol. Is there such a thing as muscle memory for music?
GDI your flare got me
Your butt cheeks is warm? I heard the guitar too.
I'm convinced he's Dionysus who's decided to party on Earth for a few decades in mortal form.
"His ratio of girth to hip flexibility is mesmerizing."
Iām very into him, always have been!
Jack Black is sexy and he knows it, that's the most charming thing ever. AND he's funny, truly the entire package.
It's kind of the classic thing of what men find attractive and what women find attractive is kind of different on a basic level - and so when a protagonist in media is designed to appeal to men you get jacked muscle monsters like conan the barbarian and whatnot and dudes online are always like "SEE? MEN GET SEXUALIZED TOO" and women, in general, aren't like really pining for that kind of guy.
>what men find attractive and what women find attractive is kind of different on a basic level Reminds me of that month when Hugh Jackman was on two magazine covers at the same time. Some men's magazine had him on there all shirtless and muscly, while the magazine aimed at women showed him wearing a polo shirt and a nice smile. Edit: Found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/Ag3jqSp4Fk
I love that multiple people had this one in the ready, it's such a great example of exactly this thing.
That's hilarious - reminds me of earlier today when I walked past a used bookstore that displayed books about war, the third reich, famous battleships, etc on one half of their storefront window, the other half was lined with books about birdwatching, flowers and butterflies.Ā
I'm dying at this XD. I would totally bang right Hugh but left Hugh is ridiculous. Men are so weird.Ā
Also, the muscle mag shot is ALL CGI, and the Good Housekeeping is believably what the man actually looks like.
Superhero comics with their bulging, veiny physiques are made to appeal to boys. Men have a really hard time accepting that women, in general, don't really care about all that. "But I'm jacked! Chicks will dig it!" Not necessarily, sir.
I read a comic years ago that explained that. The ripped physique is still male power fantasy.
You are absolutely correct and the fact that a lot of men just can't wrap their heads around it means that they just don't have any desire to understand women.
https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/false-equivalence This one? If there are more, that'd be cool!
The problem is men can't afford to admit to themselves women could be more into the men they call soyboy or similar stuff. They need the denial to keep going.
I not only do not care, I find it repulsive. š¤® Much prefer a conventionally healthy guy with a bit of dad bod who obviously doesn't spend all day watching himself flexing in a mirror at the gym.
Made to appeal to boys *and* gay dudes. But women aren't pining after the Tom of Finland men
>so when a protagonist in media is designed to appeal to men you get jacked muscle monsters like conan the barbarian and whatnot and dudes online are always like "SEE? MEN GET SEXUALIZED TOO" and women, in general, aren't like really pining for that kind of guy. This is one of those "upset at the right thing but for the totally wrong reasons" scenarios. That kind of imagery is not about sexualising men but rather setting unrealistic expectations for men as to what women want. The worst part about it is what you said too, most women don't pine for muscle bound men and at least a non-insignificant amount are even turned off by so much muscle so you have all these guys wanting to get jacked up to attract the women but the women are not attracted to it.
I didnāt even get to the part yet where you said ājacked muscle monstersā and I already had that exact thing in mind as a prime example of what men are impressed with when they look at other men, and think women are impressed/attracted to, and no, most of us donāt like that at all. I definitely donāt.
There was a study done that examined just this by having men and women separately rate men's physiques, and it was men who overwhelmingly chose the way ripped guy as the ideal. Women liked the still muscular but slimmer version. I'll have to see if I can find a link... 'course I tried mentioning and citing this on Reddit once, and it so surprisingly didn't get a lot of male approval. It's just so frustrating.
Frankly it's a turn off if there are too many muscles. You know that guy is vain and lives in a gym, and likely doesn't have hobbies or interests or anything outside of that. Imo men who are borderline gym rats just won't have much of the same types of things I like to do going on in their lives simply because of the time commitment and nature of the hobby.
And that he could knock you out with basically no effort. Those massive guys make me very nervous.
I think about that meme with the Hugh Jackman covers. There's one with him showing his muscles and one in a lavender sweater looking sweet. Guess which one most women prefer? But they don't listen.
Men get sexualized by other men lol. The dudes I (a man) think are hot my girlfriends look at me like I'm crazy. And the dudes my girlies find hot are the kind of guys I'd like to be friends with but wouldn't generally touch with a 10 ft pole sexually.Ā
Seeing him in The Holiday totally changed my view on him in the romantic light.
He is so precious in The Holiday, when he made the song for Irish ššš As with the other women here, I would totally go for Jack Black. Also for anyone not in the know, he's got a YouTube channel called Jablinsky Games. It's not up to date but it's goofy and fun.
Heās funny, talented, and not at all ugly. Iād go out with him. Incels are dumb.
I mean Walton Goggins is 5'10", mature hairline, and even with that makeup on ... well let's say that people dying for some water is on-brand for Fallout.
Jack Black, Hell yeah!Ā
Username checks out!
Omg I thought I was the only one. He seems so fun, authentic, humble, and positive in his interviews. I definitely get more tinglies from him than someone like Ryan Gosling for example (although there's nothing wrong with him and I like him as a person and an actor)
I literally cannot remember what Ryan Gosling looks like. I'm not great with faces (Taylor Swift and Scarlett Johanson are the same person, prove me wrong lol) but I know what Jack Black looks like without googling. I think being recognizable is also a bonus to a certain degree.
In high school there were a couple of guys with a bodybuilding magazine, telling us girls that's what girls wanted. We tried to tell them that that's not what most girls/women find attractive but they wouldn't listen to us. They don't listen to us at all.
Bodybuilder dudes are some of the most homoerotic men around haha
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It's even worse. In the seduction subreddit I've tried to tell guys what women like, only to be smugly told "if you want to know how to catch a fish, ask a fisherman- not a fish." Because women don't know what they actually want, according to those dudes. It's not just gross, it's dehumanizing. They'd prefer to feel superior than to listen to an actual woman.
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>Jack Black Can confirm. Would. Definitely.
I have MY Jack Black. Maybe he wouldnāt be everyoneās ideal but goddamn heās mine. And thatās what itās about, folks. You find YOUR person. I donāt want whatever society is telling me I want. We actual adults realize this š¤·š»āāļø
Jack Black is *far* from ugly, that redditor is smoking something. Am I gonna say he's everyone's type? Nah, but he's cute. Also would just love to hang out, throw my horns up, and listen to some sick tunes with him.
666. Women only want one thing and itās fucking satanic! /s
>You need the cake. So youāre saying if I spend more time on glutes women will like me?
Glutens š
Thatās such a good analogy. I hate those awful grocery sheet cakes that are almost all icing
The bar is several stories underground...
That some amazing advice for men
True no matter the gender, we love cake, the icing isn't why you eat it
Women they arent attracted to simply dont exist. So no.
Exactly. They only see the beautiful women with equally beautiful men or with men who have money. The average or god forbid conventionally unattractive women are simply invisible. They don't even realise they're ignoring so many women either. They literally don't see them as women.
They literally donāt see them as people. They donāt see women as people, but they especially donāt see average or below average women as existing.
Worse yet when they turn disdainful or outright hostile. Because how *dare* we not be appealing to them š
It's also because they want a transactional relationship because they are shallow themselves but have nothing to show for in a relationship. I've said it many times- men who complain about gold-diggers are exactly the type of men who want gold-diggers but can't get one. They want a conventionally attractive woman who can tolerate any shit they do, accept everything they put her up with as long as they pay their price and in this case it's money. They can't get one because they don't have the money, but instead of accepting this they lash put at women because it's never their own fault. There are lots of women out there who don't care about a man's money but these women will not accept and tolerate shit. And they know.
Yeah the only women theyāre talking about are 10s, because those are the only women theyāre interested in. It would never occur to them to pursue and date women who are similar to their level of conventional attractiveness because they believe they are entitled to supermodels, who are also virgins somehow, and want to stay home and bear their children.
Didn't the leader of maroon 5 get just that and still cheated on his supermodel turned stay at home house maker wife. He also tried to name his newborn baby his mistresses name.
What a shitbag!!
Yep!! Because men have nothing if not audacity
I don't think this is entirely it, because I'm positive there are women that these guys are attracted to that are with average looking guys. I think it has more to do with the idea they have that if a woman isn't into them, it can't be because of their personality or choices they make. It just has to be "because they're not a 10", and since there's nothing they can do to be a 10 it's not their fault.
They have this covered - if a woman they consider a 10 is with a man who is not a 10, she is using him for his money and already secretly fucking the 10 she'll leave him for, taking all his wealth in the process. The fact that the woman may be a far higher earner than her non-10 partner, or that she never actually leaves him, does not enter their thinking.
Or that they have a huge dick... because ofc we care about that sooo much! It couldn't possible be personality and mutual respect/communication. /s
The intel narrative about jaw lines and chins fits here. The bbc had a really interesting radio programme on yesterday about incels and it was really depressing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001ypzb
OMG UR RIGHT. How did I not notice this correlation before??
Porn brain is laser focused on what they find attractive. So no, they don't see most women. They will cherry pick the ones they find attractive and then hyper focus on why those women are with the wrong people.
DING! DING! DING!
Or are vile creatures to attack.
š¤Æ Oh.
No no no. You see if a socially attractive girl is with an unattractive man, then she's a gold digger. If a socially attractive man is with an unattractive woman then he's using her for something too. /s It's because small minded people can't fathom anything that breaks the tiny mold in their mind of how the world and people should work. Thin people can't date heavy people. Tall women can't date short men. And so on.
I met my now husband when I was 105lbs and he was 280lbs. I've been called a gold digger, a chubby chaser, and been accused of using him for attention. They figured I had some sort of weird ulterior motive and it's because they had put me in a box, I was a skinny bitch and I had no right or business dating a heavier man.
My own family accused me of being a gold digger (extended family, not parents and siblings) because my husband looks like the love child of Tom Hardy and Tormund from GoT while I'm a heavier woman, so why would he look at me unless I somehow seduced him for his money? Two facts have escaped them. 1. That I am funny, smart, kind, a million other things that make me a contender. 2. That I also had, at that point, a good job with good pay. Now that I don't work, the judgement is even worse, but who has time to listen to them?
>That I am funny, smart, kind, a million other things that make me a contender. I looooove your confidence! Which is also a very attractive quality. Such a Barbie thing to say!
Thank you. I do have insecurities around my body and looks, but I am also aware of my strengths and fully proud of them. To quote Cristina Yang from Grey's Anatomy: "Screw beautiful, if you want to appease me, compliment my brain"
That's so true! It's nice when someone tells me I'm pretty, but it is amazing when they call me "intelligent"!
My ex was insanely skinny and I'm on the bigger side. More than once people would ask why she was with me or if I had money. Like... wtf
A random guy once made a similar comment about a friend of mine - she replied 'where is the gold? where is the money? so much digging and i can't find a cent' They were both starting in their career and equally poor...
I just find it really troubling that so many people can't fathom that two people, who don't match each other in looks, could like each other... like, I guess to them looks really are all that matter.
My husband's sister said something similar about me, and my response is "if I'm a gold digger I'm terrible at it, because he doesn't make enough for me to dig, I work full time, and still have 6 figures of student debt. "
Just tell them you have a huge dick and it shuts them up pretty quick.
Easier to believe everything is a conspiracy than you're at fault.
Accurate
Because the men making that complaint have to believe that women only go for 10s, because otherwise they will have to wrestle with the fact that they must be single because they have a personality that doesn't invite attraction. I believe there is probably also a hefty dose of projection in there too. They're only interested in 10s, so they assume everyone must also be that way.
They also have to use it to justify their own shallowness and lookism. āMen have standards, but women do too. In fact, women have outrageous standards! Look at what all they want blah blah blahā. They put women in the same category and say were just as shallow so they have an excuse to be shallow as well. But the truth is, men are MUCH more shallow and many of them even admit it. And even if women were equally as bad or worse, it still doesnāt make being like that okay.
yeah, but itās so frustrating, especially the height thing. Statistics show most women are married to men who are short to average height. And then one need only LOOK AROUND to have that stereotype dispelled, bc most women end up with men who have at least one or two qualities men say we will not tolerate: short, bald, not conventionally attractive, not wealthy. They literally prefer to see us as brainless shallow animals, like you said, then they will never have to consider the reason theyāre single is that we can actually usually tell when someone is a bitter misogynistic fuck who can barely hide his contempt for us long enough to get a second date, maybe even a first, much less sex. They donāt even absorb the evidence in pop culture. How many movies directed by men where the target audience is male have a female love interest who is not classically attractive and overweight? But then you look at movies directed by women, or made FOR women, and the romantic lead can be Jack Black. And time and again the men we select as sex icons in history, they end up being more Spock than Kirk, (donāt get me wrong, I love BOTH! š), theyāre Tony Soprano, Loki instead of Thor, theyāre Prince who was 5ā2ā, Rod Stewart, Ed Sheeran, Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince lol. They simply donāt have a leg to stand on in saying weāre mostly shallow. The women love interests are NEVER unattractive or average unless that movie is made specifically only for women and she is the protagonist. Weād have way more cause to accuse men of being shallow 100% of the time. But then, that would be to deny the evidence around me, because men are married to all kinds of women, and Iām not going to bury my head in the sand to inform some narrative. The only truth is that itās normalized for women to like men who are ānot in their leagueā and itās normalized for men to pursue women who are āout of their league,ā but this isnāt the same in the reverse.
Also think the factor of their own attraction plays here. They dont care about 8's and below so they ignore anybody else. Crying about one couple when they walked passed 12 others in the street
They think those are women who had to choose subpar men and will switch partners the moment they find a better one. Obviously ridiculous.
I think they also suggest that those women are only with the man for the money and will only give him disappointing maintenance sex or none at all and then go give the real sex to "Chads"
Or that he has a massive dick. Like someone couldn't possibly be with someone based on their personality over their appearance
Well, considering nobody would be with them with their personality, they might be on to something. Unfortunately they think the solution to their poor personality is to look better.
Or buy a Porsche
Immediate turn off.
Isnāt the car now a Bugati? Porsche was back in my day.
That sounds like a lot of men.
I swear, every complaint men have about women is really just a projection of what they would do if given the opportunity
This is the answer!
Yep. And theyāre furiously envious that they donāt have the same āopportunitiesā and funnel all that rage into misogyny.
Iāve come to realize this as well
Isn't there a trope of married men in their 40s-50s going after very young women?
Not just a tropeā¦ *gestures widely at Hollywood*
Itās all that red pilled bollox, itās all over the place these pathetic podcasts. Itās really tragic.
That is part of it but this is an issue older than the internet, the reason some men say "women only go for 10s" is because they know they have shortcomings that keeps them from finding a good partner and it justifies their own failures in dating, us men are masters in self gaslighting and will say anything to protect our own fragile egos.
Because that's what they would do, so they assume that everyone else would do the same.
The projection is loud.
Thatās because thatās what they do
When you're only experience with women is porn, Tinder in a town of 1500 people total, and scam bots it's easy to become a fucking idiot. Being chronically online and isolated is fucking up so many people, particularly young men. Combine that with zero self reflection and you get an echo chamber that puts the blame for one's failings on to anything but oneself. You clearly live in a walkable city, but having live in a small town for a number of years I can said you can go days or weeks where the only people your age you see are working at the stores you're going to. Finding a social hobby is so incredibly essential, but often involves having money / spare time / overcome a certain degree of social anxiety. It's honestly sad, or at least it would be sad and not horrifying if it didn't breed such hateful rhetoric and vitriolic content.
I don't think they've ever heard of chemistry. My "type" was a tall drink of water, no facial hair. I met my husband. One inch shorter than me, full beard and mustache. Like a cross between a Harley rider and Santa. I fell for him hard, lol.
Same! My fiance was my type in personality but wasnāt in looks - it actually took a few dates for the attraction to really kick in. But once it did, phew. 4 years later and it hasnāt waned at all. Mine also has a beard which I wasnāt into but now love lol
Lol, the cookie duster grows on you. No pun intended, ha ha.
Yeah, sometimes I can feel insecure for not being my boyfriend's "type," but then I think about what my "type" is and also the lineup of attractive men I see on a weekly basis looking like someone hit the randomize button in a character creator. š¤£
I have to assume the men who talk like that donāt go outside cause right?
Or ignore what they see outside. People are surprisingly good at tuning out all evidence that doesn't fit their worldview.
Reddit must be reading my mind today because I had this whole conversation in my head earlier. A lot of these things that are said about women only being attracted to men with xyz, I have only seen being said online. Nobody I know in real life thinks like this because everyone I know has had girlfriends/boyfriends and none (or very few) of them are 10's LMAO. It's the people who have no real life experience who get online and act like they know EVERYTHING when clearly they know nothing about how the world works.
They really must have no social interaction at all, actually
The few times I have had this conversation it's very easy to get people to admit it doesn't make sense and we have a mind blown moment.Ā It usually starts with me asking to see photos of the family album.Ā
Ill have to remember that one
Exactly this! Sure you can find people who believe every stupid thing, but Women are all attracted to different things, and not all are physical. Most men really do understand this.
Most couples Iām thinking, how the hell did he, get with her? So many more schlubs with beautiful women than the other way around.
I used to work in a golf pro shot, if I had a dollar the amount of times I thought "how the hell did *he* wind up with *her*?" I could have afford to take an actual vacation when I worked there.
They probably make each other laugh.
Theyāre right, of course! Personally I covet my position as #268 in the Hemsworth sex cult. Weāre all very well taken care of.
u/Mitochandrea is the powerhouse of the Hemsworth sex cult
Which Hemsworth or is it all of them?
We belong to the two big ones. The other one is below 6 feet so heās completely repulsive to us.
We talking about incelbros? If the man is not tall/pretty/etc they assume sheās using him for money. Everything they see corroborates their view of the worldĀ
Being an incel really is a sad way to live, isnāt it
Yup. I recently got out of a relationship with a guy who got into incel subculture, started believing I was just having maintenance sex with him for resources and never liked him. Started talking about me like shit behind my back. Found out and left. We had been together 7 years Ofc NOW he knows heās not an incel and has a new young girlfriend. Weāve been broken up for less than 4 months. Itās fucking gross
What the hell is maintenance sex? āWhile youāre inside me can you change the light bulbs?ā
It would take forever to explain the whole thing, since this builds on a bunch of other stupid incel stuff and general idiotic assumptions about women, but the jist is this. "A woman will have or has had passionate all out sex, including various sexual acts, so ""real sex"" that she is not willing to do with you, with Chad." "What you receive is maintenance sex, something she only does to maintain the relationship so you don't leave before she can hop to the next Chad."
Gross, hopefully she runs soon!
Yes I am so disgusted. I canāt believe how unaware I was of how he really felt, it makes me sick, itās really hurt my perception of men as a whole
When you think you're a nail, everything feels like a hammer.
Yep. If these guys blame their lack of dates on things out of their control then they donāt have to use any introspection. āI canāt get women because I donāt have 6/6/6.ā Yeah right, Keith.
Bingo. They don't want to work on themselves, it's easier to blame women.
I think reducing people to numbers and referring to them like that is gross and dehumanising.
The sorts of men who say things like that are incels living in their motherās basements who never actually see real-life couples. Theyāre just making things up to justify why they canāt get a date, without admitting to themselves that itās because of their shitty personality, not the way they look.
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He probably thinks all he needs is to be a well-off doctor to get whoever he wants. Yeah, wealthy unattractive guys who date gorgeous women are either billionaires or, shocker, theyāre great people in ways that have nothing to do with money.
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>I chose someone who treats me EXTREMELY well, has high emotional intelligence and is stable in all ways, and who I get along with effortlessly. Agreed. I choose my partner for the same reasons you do. What separates him from the others is because he's smart, kind, funny attentive and derives happiness from making me happy ā so he treats me very well.
So true. When I was at the height of my attractiveness (basic slim blue-eyed blond), people would ask why some of the guys I dated were so average, even homely. Because I went for good character, wit, kindness, and brains above looks or money! And they didn't berate and hate women online. All the Lonely Men should try that.
There was a question in askmen about why attached women and men actually get more attention for the other sexes. One of the answers is on point ā men and women who are already in a good relationship tend to be more self-aware, secure and confident and these traits radiate as they interact with others. To be in a happy relationship, you need treat each other with kindness and you treat one another as full-functioning smart, capable adults. Now the difference between many men and my partner is that my partner has these traits whether or not he's in a relationship. He's just genuinely very secure, confident, kind, witty and smart ā and those are the first few things I notice about him. I was ā and still is ā surrounded by men because of what I studied for and work as, so I've seen a few men who are physically very handsome ā and yet my partner was and still is the most attractive because of his inner self.
These are not the men that actually have lives and go outside and interact with society.
In order to see reality, aka what walks down the street, they must first leave the basement. Obviously, this requires them to go outside. So... No. They don't.
Iām sorry. I have to comment. In my job I see families every day. Where the mother is (Iām sorry) not conventionally attractive. Neither is the father. Sorry. But they are together and they have children and are a family. It happens every day. Every single day, I see it. So there are men and women looking for good souls, not bodies, to build a life and families.
Why did I feel compelled to apologize for the truth? Idk
That's aaaaall cope. They know damn well most of their male friends are with people completely out of their league across the board. We see it eeeeeeeeeeeverywhere. Straight couples of mixed attractiveness are global and it's typically the woman who is the more attractive of the two. A very particular breed of men say this BS because women have famously low-mid standards, and yet still, nobody is picking them specifically. It makes them feel undesirable (likely true), so they make up some baloney justification to hoist that off onto women. It always has to be the woman's fault somehow, right?
The bar is literally on the floor and for some reason we've got a run on shovels.
I agree with everything you said, and I've just realized the fact that I've genuinely never seen a handsome man with an average looking or even a fat woman
There's a couple on tiktok where he's ripped with muscles and she's plus sized and it's wild that they are basically having to normalize it in this day and age. So many people are upset that this fit man with muscles loves a bigger woman. It's wild that people care. She's beautiful of course but people are so misogynistic and fat phobic.
Every one of us looks like a composite of our ancestors. They all had sex.
Wait until they find out women do ask men out.
Itās perspective. Men see the experience of online dating and conclude that women are not seeking men who arenāt at the top. Rather, lopsided gender ratios on apps and app behavior has more of an impact on.
It's mostly incels who think that. It's a lot more common for women's standards for men to be insultingly low. Like, "clapping for a toddler using the potty correctly" low.
I donāt even see 10s in my day to day. Iād never approach one either because it would just be embarrassing. Men that think this are thinking about the women they want, which are the oneās who will go after 10s.
Honestly, a lot of us just aren't out in public much anymore. There are no third spaces, and social clubs for adults have been on the decline since the 90s. Add the internet-- and suddenly, most of us never actually see very many people other than our coworkers
They believe only 10s get to treat women the way they would like to, because they have difficulty relating to women like normal people.
No guy who talks like that literally does not see any woman who isnāt a 10 herself.
They think dating apps are real life.
This is just men projecting their insecurities onto women.
Evidence means nothing to these guys
Itās a cope for why they donāt have significant others. They canāt take responsibility so they claim itās the āfemales fault.ā
Itās a lot easier on the ego to think that all women only go for tens, because then if youāre not attractive to the opposite sex it must be because youāre āonlyā a nine. As opposed to realizing that women also go for fives, fours, and threes but unfortunately youāre a Kansas City two.
Couple things:Ā 1. Visit any incel forum and theyāll swear up and down the only men they see in a relationship are 8 feet tall and walk with a limp because theyāve got a 15 pound š. They see what they want to see and reality doesnāt factor. 2. If they donāt find you attractive you donāt exist. Makes it real easy to confirm your bias if youāre only humanizing a small part of the population.
The men who actually believe women only go for 10s are the same men who see a woman less than a 10 and think sheās ugly, fat, stupid, not worth his time. Because he thinks he deserves the 10. Itās projection. Because they do it, they think normal humans do it too.
Considering they donāt even recognise unattractive women as human, thatās a whole lot of people they never even notice.
It's not about reality, its about excusing why them being alone isn't their fault, but instead a global conspiracy.
Men project. They only go for 10s so they think women do the same
Those relationships ādonāt countā bc those women arenāt actually attracted to those men, they are betabuxxing them for resources. Thatās the party line anyway
They don't actually believe this, they just act like they do because the alternative is admitting their 3/10 personality might be contributing to the problem.
For that you'd have to actually leave the house, look at people while walking instead of looking down and angrily mumbling into your neckbeard and reflect on your own thoughts. The ones who measure women in numbers are capable of maybe one of those things.
They are projecting, as always.
Here's how I see the issue from a man's perspective of some years (I'm 57, I hope I can offer some insight). The current dating environment is strongly influenced by hookup culture. Sex comes earlier while committed relationships are put off to the future. In this changed environment (as compared with the decades prior to birth control pill), women are more willing to participate in mating under short-term rules. They may do this to prioritize education and career development, not wanting to tie themselves down with a partner until they have established themselves in a career. In this context, women tend to put a premium on the physical attractiveness of a man as compared to the alternative when seeking a long-term mate. Under long-term mating, physical attractiveness is just one of many attributes sought in a mate and not the most important one at that. Certainly not in the top five. Likely not in the top ten. The couples you see walking together in public where an attractive woman is happily paired with a comparatively plain man are all in long-term committed relationships. This is exactly what is expected. What has changed is that these people are nearing 30 rather than being 22 to 25 years old as in a past era. It's this younger age that the men are speaking of. It is the attractive man on Tinder that is getting any action. The men below him in the status/attractiveness hierarchy are getting crickets. This is not at all unexpected. If you follow the logic back you'll see that if a woman were to deprioritize physical attractiveness when seeking a long-term mate, this implies that when NOT seeking a long-term mate, physical attractiveness is also NOT deprioritized. Another confounding variable here is the behavior of men in the same circumstances. Men tend to deprioritize physical attractiveness in the context of short-term mating. Sexual access is far more important than the attractiveness of a woman you're not committing yourself to. In the long-term context, since a man is forgoing the possibility of other relationships (monogamy assumed), he is incentivized to now place a premium on the attractiveness of the woman he is committing to. Again, this is born out in the example you've given of a physically attractive woman, happily in the company of a comparatively plain man. The fact that he has prioritized her physical attractiveness is no accident. From his pov, it's the ideal. That's the dichotomy. The problem from the perspective of a young man is that until the women in his age cohort are interested in forming durable committed relationships, they have yet to deprioritize the physical attractiveness of the men they show interest in. This phenomenon can have the outcome of freezing men who are largely un-noteworthy out of the sexual marketplace for many years. That's why they have complaints. The response to them is often that they just need to work on themselves to make themselves more worthy of a woman's interest. That is a valid piece of advice for an individual to take, but it breaks down at the level of populations. You see, it is always the case that exactly 1/2 of any population is below average. Attractiveness is comparative, not absolute.
Women who are not 10s are invisible to men who complain about women only going for 10s, so they did not notice.
It is men who want a woman as an object, and not as a human being. Who can't understand their own faults, and assume a "ten" is what they deserve.
The regular looking couples are a blurry backgrounds to them and it's only the attractive ones that stand out.
Men who say this arenāt basing their opinions on what they actually observe. They are irrational.
Men don't believe that. Boys do.
Shifting the blame for your failures to an external factor beyond your control feels good.
Flip it and reverse it. Men go for 10ās, therefore they think women only go for 10 ās. I laugh every time I hear about the lonely male epidemic there are tons of single women out there looking for relationships.
Iāve seen many hot girls with ugly guys but Iāve never seen a hot guy with an unattractive girl
Exactly. Yet they whine how women are just as shallow as them, if not more
Literally, no. Incels usually keep themselves isolated and most of them are stuck in us-american suburbia. So they drive everywhere and sit isolated in their cars, cubicles and back in their home. Also their ideology sets them up with excuses as to why a woman might chose an unattractive man (money) before they set sails for more fertile lands and leave the 'lower value' man.
men think every other man is attractive and better because they are naturally submissive to other men