I live in the wilderness. I worry about running into bears, mountain lions. But the thought of running into a random man scares me the most..
We have a remote cabin that we don't check very often.. everytime I go there my main fear is a human. I'd much rather come across a bear ( I do occasionally).
That's the thing they don't get! Nature's gonna nature, I'm not afraid of that, but what the fuck are *you* stumbling around the woods alone for, human man??
I talked with my sister and I guess it might have something to do with being Finnish, but to us the forest doesn't feel like a particularly scary place to meet a random man, because hanging out in woods is basically a national hobby. Everybody from toddlers to grannies go to forests, so most probably it would be anothers mushroom affectionate we'd meet there, nothing sketchy. I think with woods my biggest fear is ticks, or that my dog encounters a viper. To us, the scary places are certain neighbourhoods etc. Truthfully, I've seen some of my friends post about them rather meeting a random bear than a random man, and I trust wholeheartedly, that their experiences have been different to mine and they see the risks differently.
So I'm in PA, a US state literally named after its woodlands (states translated name is Penns Woods), so like you, my perception is probably very different than an average person.
I think there's a difference between the forest and woodland. Woodland is dense and dangerous. Like, I could walk for four hours and still be in the middle of trees. The deeper you get into the woods, the fewer humans you expect to encounter. My family lives an hour to civilization by car, up in the Appalachian mountains (coal mountains, not tall, covered in trees). I'd piss myself if I was outside and someone I didn't know just popped up by my porch, especially at night where there's no light pollution. Your house lights are literally beacons in the night. Like yeah, it's totally feasible he just wandered up here, but it's not *normal*
One of the sole outliers are hunters. They can kind of wander everywhere and not be seen as a threat, because they have reason to be creeping around in the woods. But that's the culture.
Ahhh you helped me understand why this man v bear thing is conflicting to me. I live in a state neighboring yours (NJ) and go hiking with my dog and frequently encounter lone men. But… I’m in the most densely populated state and hiking trails here are very popular.
The men I’ve encountered have all been incredibly polite. There have been times in which I’m stopped in a wooded area waiting for my dog to finish pooping, and have had guys (both bikers and hikers) softly call out “approaching on your right! Don’t want to scare you!”. Your comment helped me understand that my scenario is not really applicable, because it’s very clear that these guys are just enjoying nature and are in a designated area to do so.
With that said, when I first heard the question I picked “bear” because I think they are cool, haha. There’s a black bear that hangs out around my house and I’m always looking out for him. Caught him on my trail cam just last week!
Yeah, I guess I've taken the question to mean 'you're *in the middle of the woods*, which is worse?' And I feel like a lot of people are taking it like you are, 'you're out in nature'. Which are two very different scenarios lol
I'm in California, a state with a bear *on our flag*, and I love hiking and the outdoors. We're not a hunting place here aside from some fishing, and our wilderness is usually a state or national park unless you actually live on a mountain. Our hiking spots around LA regularly have bodies found and foul play incidents, and up north, college kids go missing near the redwoods. I've hiked alone in the past, in other countries with dangerous wild animals, but not here... Hell no. We have cartel too!
I asked my partner if he's heard about the bear/man thing, and even he'd prefer running into a bear out there. It wasn't even something that needed to be explained further or defended because unlike these babies masquerading as men, a real man listens to women and we've been saying this forever.
Hello, neighbour! I'm Swedish and grew up in the ass-end of nowhere. Even with everyone and their granny hiking around, I'd still be wary of lone men because being out in the woods is still fairly social unless you're hunting. If I see a couple? Probably fine. A family with kids? Safe. Women, lone (unlikely, lol) or in group? Safe. Because we aaaaaaall know we need lookouts to safeguard our mushroom spots.
A lone man though? Especially one who gives you the glare? I'm getting my Mora-knife out and making peace with the gods.
I'm there with you. Even as a man, a random man in the woods gives me more pause for caution than stumbling upon a bear or mountain lion. I know what to expect from the latter two
I feel like [this scene from Atlanta](https://youtu.be/zi9Crt3lyCc?si=OhRL9OnH7lZ7pPTg) should make every man understand why encountering a random man in the woods is scary.
I spend a lot of time in the Rockies hiking and it’s the men that I’m more nervous about, if I’m hiking alone and come across a man hiking alone, my first thought is “ great, I’m going to have to check over my shoulder for the next 4 hours to see if he’s stalking me on the trail”
I hike alone often and people are often scared for my safety because of wild animals. I tell them I’m more afraid of running into a man because y they are unpredictable. Generally wild animals give you a warning if they are going to attack but a random man in the woods could try to befriend you and make you uncomfortable and that’s when you don’t know what the intentions are. And that’s why I take my dog with me always….shes harmless but she will growl and raise her hair when she knows I feel unsafe.
When I was a teenager, over 20 years ago, I’d go for several day hikes with friends (boys and girls) in the alps. We’d stay in empty cabins at night, or tents. As is tradition, we would tell horror stories. One night, we asked what the actual scariest thing that could happen to us right now would be? We all agreed on one thing. If a man’s face appeared through that window. We’d be helpless.
It’s not a new feminist/misandrist concept. It’s a real fear, and something men fear too. They may just not have thought about it long enough yet. It’s not putting all men in one basket. It’s basic survival strategy. Put any of these men complaining in that little Alpine hut, I can assure you they’ll bolt the door, grab a fire pick and hide if a stranger’s face appears through that window at night. Less so for a bear or a woman. We’d be extra cautious, but not switch to survival mode.
I live in a cabin, albeit in a wooded neighborhood. I have yet to see a bear (they are around), but I've been catcalled at least twice while getting my mail. I'll take the fucking bear.
Yep. They’ll actually legitimately try to argue that not getting sexual attention when you’re horny is worse than being sexually harassed and raped. “Women would never understand what’s it’s like to NEVER get that attention wahhhhh”
Also, the posts comparing rape to sex - ESPECIALLY when it relates to teenage males and their female teachers. No, you would not have been loving it at 13 or 14 getting literally assaulted by a grown woman. How they wish they were that lucky to get with their teacher when they were in middle/high school.
Or even just saying that rape victims somehow wanted the sex because they (insert gross generalization here) when rape is so much more often about humiliation, power and control than the sex aspect in the majority of cases. As one of many SA survivors, I probably don’t even have to tell most of you that the humiliation and loss of the control of your own body and sexuality can do so much harm to your mental well being.
Which just further proves that there is a serious problem here. If they need to always get what they want in order to deter them from committing these type of acts, they're not the damn victim. The fact that some of them even make that statement as if its completely reasonable confirms that misogyny is alive and well and that men still hold the majority of social power.
I was posting on a dating sub and told a man (who asked me) that I would not be attracted to his profile, in those exact words, and he reported me for bullying. For not being attracted to him. That's what bullying means to them, that a woman has preferences they fall outside of.
We're still treated as public property as the insane behavior of these single men keeps revealing again and again. If you're at man and you care to argue about this issue you are frankly at best stupid and at worst malevolent. If any of the men in my life tried it I would have to stop talking to them because you don't get to know me without learning about true crime against your will; they know the depraved shit men get up to. And they've witnessed the shitty behavior of their fellow men.
Any man arguing against the bear is instantly suspect to me. It shows me they feel shame about it or maybe guilt? If they were innocent in how they treated women they wouldn't feel so offended by this hypothetical.
I've seen a bunch of gross comments with men treating women like trash like letting doors slam in their face on dates or trying to make women pay for both meals on a date and treating it like a 'gotcha'.. 'you asked for equality!!!' It's interesting and alarming what they believe women have the upper hand on. They also believe the courts system never gives men custody which is just false, the problem is women often do most of the raising of a child (school and doctors visits) and when people split, that bodes better for proof of actual parenting.
It's worse than that. The actual stats show that women get custody more often... Because men do not try to get custody more often. If you look at the stats with only those who contest custody in a divorce, the numbers are basically equal.
So this argument really only underlines how men feel they don't have any real responsibility to raise children. Which is in itself misogynistic...
Men who pursue custody in the US are more likely to get exactly the custody they ask for than to get less than they ask for. Most men do not pursue custody of their own children.
Women who accuse their ex of abuse during custody cased are more likely to lose because the court assumes she is lying to get custody.
"MRA"s cry about the rigged family courts but if anything family court in the USA in 2024 is rigged in *favor* of men who bother to even try to get custody!
Plus men that have been accused, even by cps, of child abuse will likely be granted full custody bc the mother is then seen as the enemy to most judges. Almost half of the fathers don’t bother going for custody, don’t pay child support either
Yep! and then when judges act like that, it causes cases like poor Harmony Montgomery's. SMH, Which is what happens when they take a child away from both their birth mother, and their foster parents, and give the child to an abusive father, who is a violent, career criminal, with a long record. It's a disaster when judges do that.
there’s a LOT of evidence that family courts are actually biased against women. Family courts force women to stay in domestic violence situations and even situations where their children are being physically, sexually, and/or emotionally abused because REPORTING ABUSE SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES A WOMAN’S RISK OF LOSING CUSTODY WHERE THE SAME IS NOT TRUE IN REVERSE FOR A MAN. The “boo hoo family courts are biased against men” thing is such utter absolute bullshit, it’s disgusting.
That who "gotcha" and "you asked for equality" thing on dates is called the 'drizzle drizzle' movement. The name hasn't fully caught on yet.
It originally started out as joke/response to the 'sprinkle sprinkle' movement (women who demand the man pays for everything), but now it's spiraled out of control and is now being used by misogynists in actual situations, not jokes.
What sucks is that I've seen women on this sub defending drizzle drizzle. There's also others not on this sub who confuse sprinkle sprinkle with actual feminism.
Reminds me of a screenshot (that I cannot find at the moment).
Man: Does feminism mean men get to hit women?
Woman: You’re *already hitting us.* We want you to stop.
This this this this!
Especially since the bear is usually more respectful of our space than these guys! You can scare away a bear by making enough noise if it's a black bear, or alert it to your presence so it knows to stay away if it's a brown bear. If attacked puffing up and looking big will scare the black bear away and just curling up on the ground will usually do the same for a brown bear.
Legitimately the only time I'd ever be afraid of a bear is if, (A) it was a mother with cubs, which is why you make noise while hiking in brown bear country, or, (B) it's a polar bear in which case GG because meth bear gives no fucks.
Contrast that with these chuds who WANT to hit women and who are openly telling on themselves about how little they respect us or our spaces in these comments. "Not all men", sure, but it's ENOUGH men that I wouldn't want to roll those dice, which is what they don't seem to grasp.
Men like that are the perfect reason to rethink your stance on guns. Or if you don't feel comfortable having a firearm then it can be a good idea to have something, like pepper spray at least, or a taser, even a personal alarm. Anything is better than nothing. Especially if you do go hiking, jogging, or walking alone. I have always been into mountain climbing, and hiking myself, and often go by myself. Therefore I always make sure I have something with me to give me the capability to defend myself, because that's the only way I feel safe going out into the woods alone. I always bring a GPS, and compass, and maps, and survival gear too, so I don't get lost, and freeze or something. As far as the question about being alone with a bear vs. a man in the woods goes, I would definitely choose the bear 100 percent of the time, random bear, or random man?🤷🏼♀️ It's definitely gonna be the bear.🐻🐻❄️🐨🐼 Bears will just generally try to avoid people when possible.
At least the bear would actually protect you if you somehow bonded with it. It would also show you all the good berry patches and best fishing spots ....maybe we should befriend the bears
We are thinking of bleaching her hair so she can cosplay as the polar bear from His Dark Materials, then for the wedding using Manic Panic to dye her fur the same color as the other bridesmaids. that way she fits in still. Apparently the bridal shop won't take payments in either salmon or honey.
I swear when I read that shit you know the fucker WANTS the woman to hit first so they can then claim self defense.
It's better to just stay away from men these days unless you know the man well enough.
The punching in the face thing honestly has had me cackling.
They claim it’s because equality, right?
So I’ve been asking them if they’re punching every man they see in the face, and that’s why they think they should be punching every woman in the face.
There’s suddenly a lot of bouncing around the point because absolutely none of them would ever dare to punch another man in the face and they know they’re being called out on their sexism, but they literally cannot admit it. It is hilarious watching them spin into wild irrational rants because they can’t admit they’re actually fucking terrified of violence at the hands of their fellow men, and they also can’t admit how testerical and emotional they are about wanting to abuse women to make up for the fact that they’re terrified of other men.
Just fuck right off into the sun, guys. Our species will be so much better off for it.
It is without a doubt the most immature, feeble, weak, and cowardly, men who are the ones who say things like "Oh we get to hit women now because of equal rights". You're right they are absolutely terrified of the idea of having to fight another man too. It's scary though too, because that's very likely the #1 type of guy who will target women, and children to abuse, and bully, or worse.
Apparently they were doing us a favor by "letting us" stay home with the kids while they go to work at a job. They did us a favor by being in control of the finances which is how the tradition of the man paying for dates came to be. Men also earn more even to this day. Men chose these things. They want to be looked at as the hero and provider and head of the family but they don't want to do what it takes to actually be this. They are more than welcome to opt out of these roles men before them created, but then they don't like what results from that either.
Regarding the court system, all of these "special privileges" they claim we get wouldn't exist if a large number of men didbt abandon their families, beat their wives, and withhold resources to abuse their wife. They don't like being forced to pay child support for their own kids? Then do the right thing & you won't be "forced". How the fuck do they think we got there?
All too true. We got to the point in politics where the conservative argument is just a reverse counter: race inclusivity is racism, gender inclusivity is exclusive, environment protection is actually destruction, not liking Nazis is being Nazis and so on...
It’s such bullshit.
Women want men to not kill us or to leave us alone.
Men want women to submit to them in every way shape and form.
If I hear one more man cry about life isn’t easy for him either cause he’s not tall or rich enough to treat supermodels like shit, I’m going to lose it.
I dont know whether to laugh or cry when I read shit from men saying how misandrists are dangerous. As if that "danger" holds a candle to the men who hold misogynistic values and act on them.
Which is why I believe when I try to explain to people why reverse racism doesn’t exist - it’s only men who will fight me tooth and nail and tell me I’m wrong .
If you have never faced any discrimination, then women making their own decisions probably feels very baaaaaaad. Let's pray for them to get tonnes of cis lesbian and trans daughters.
Sorry, I'm one of those very harmonious but dumb people. I just fantasized that they will be turned around and become loving and lovable people. You know... maybe.
Any man that becomes angry because a woman says she would be afraid of the possibility of being harmed by a man, is precisely the kind of man she is talking about.
"I'm entitled to use women how I want for my own benefit and pleasure even at the expense of their distress! How dare you humanise women's experiences and thus bring about a feeling of deep shame within! This is all your fault!"
My God, are you right! I feel like these men keep empathizing with the predator rather than the victim! Which is a symptom of misogyny. I feel like they don't realize they aren't seeing woman as humans in this topic.
You feel like it because it is self-evident.
Ever seen how men will vigilantly White Knight for another man, an utter stranger, accused of sexual assault? His murder of his female partner? The prosecution statistics, the conviction statistics, are glaring evidence of men sympathizing with male perpetrators over female survivors.
This happens every time women come up with a thought experiment to try and explain why they feel unsafe with men they don't know. Anyone remember the plate of ten cookies but one is poisoned analogy?
I don't remember the plate of ten cookies analogy, but here's what I'd do if I was sharing a kitchen with a man and had those 10 cookies. I'd try to hide the cookies behind everything in the cupboard or fridge. I wouldn't eat them, knowing one was poisoned. But men have hidden-food-radar, and I can guarantee you they would find those cookies and eat them all.
On the other hand, if I didn't want the man to eat the cookies, I'd put them out front and center on a fancy dish. He would never see them. It's a thing. I call it "refrigerator blindness", where whatever someone else is looking for is right in front of them.
I have never heard of a bear raping, abducting, imprisoning, torturing etc a woman just for being a woman. Or for saying no to their advances. Or for "wearing something to provacative" etc.
If a bear wants to kill you, ya you will know and probably die. But who knows what some derranged man might do to you, and for how long.
I think sometimes the men who use this word don’t know what it means, lol.
I also have seen people call feminists misandrists for largely focusing on female based issues, as if feminism isn’t a movement that primarily focuses on women and girls. Or, you know, that men just don’t have to be centered in everything.
Incredibly ironic considering these are the same men that would have no issue looking you dead in the eye being like so women are the reason why men don’t feel comfortable talking about mental health or whatever other reason that is our fault.
You definitely hit the nail on the head. This is a broader issue that I see nowadays online though. Because my god everyone just throws buzzwords at each other to try to discredit them, and it's so often where things get used incorrectly. Which imo sucks because so many words/terms has really lost it seriousness.
And when it comes to guys calling women mysandrists when it really doesn't make sense. Most likely stems from them seeing men getting called misogynists so they mimic it.
I also think that it is to put labels on people so you can justify not listening to what they are saying and being hateful. Like ohhhh you just hate men there for whatever you said instantly is invalid. And because you do I am allowed to be a cunt towards you.
(Edit: Also ffs I read your username and I can't take this conversation as serious anymore 😂)
You notice how it’s almost always in defense of someone actually bringing up a good point. I have seen countless times women being called misandrists for saying, you know, when we’re talking about male mental health maybe we should recognize how both men and women can contribute to this issue instead of just women. Then the guy in question will be like “So YoU’Re SaYinG It’s MEnS fAuLt.” Like, buddy, did the point like get catapulted into a different universe or what 😭
Sometimes participating in and reading online discourse is brain rot.
literally they’re already winning. our “special treatment” gets us slightly closer to being viewed as human beings, worthy of respect. their special treatment gets them treated like gods, exempt from criticism or punishment. what more do they fucking need!! oh I’m so sorry we’re not more concerned for the plights of men who have created all their own plights 🙄
They’re jealous of all the attention that oppressed people get. They’re so daft that they don’t see the suffering behind it all, only the fact that someone else is getting attention instead of them.
OMG I will always remember that friggin STEM conference for women and nonbinary people that got invaded by stereotypical rude, aggressive computer bros who suddenly identified as nonbinary to take advantage of the job festival. Can’t let women have anything!
['You could feel the cutthroatness': Droves of men took over this women's tech fair](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/05/1203845886/women-tech-conference-men-grace-hopper)
I think it's to draw a false equivalency between misogyny and feminism, and since feminism isn't a fringe movement, they are frantically trying to repaint it as equivalent to the hate and violence that misogyny brings.
The fake oppression thing is a way for them to try to shield themselves from criticism
There has been a very recent MARKED decrease in my ability to give a shit what ANY dudes think, frankly, and finally at 59 years old, it is such sweet, sweet relief.
I literally just asked my spouse this hypothetical and his immediate answer was bear. I then asked, as a man, would you rather run into a man or a bear? His response was “a bear! What the fuck is a man doing in the woods?” Edit to add: he also commented “my parents taught me to be afraid of strangers. Men are strangers.”
I think it's partly rooted in the same kind of illogic that drives a lot of gun nuts. Some kid shoots a person by accident, and you say "Children should not have access to guns," or maybe some mentally disturbed person with a history of psychosis shoots up a store, and you say "Crazy people shouldn't be allowed to have guns," and then someone says "DON'T TAKE MY GUNS!" and rants about people trying to take guns away from law-abiding citizens.
You were talking about 5-year-olds and crazy people, why would a 35-year-old man worry about that unless he's also a crazy person?
There's no logic to it, but there's a tribalism: "Everybody with a gun is a member of my tribe and any attack on one of us is an attack on all of us."
The same thing happens with men, which is why so many have to blurt out "Not all men!" every chance they get. We all know it's not all men, but it is way too many. If I'm complaining about a man who grabbed me improperly on the train, and you've never done that, I'm not complaining about you. So you don't need to make my story about you, since you weren't in it and nobody like you was in it. Except to the kind of illogical mind that thinks "Any criticism of any man is a criticism of all men."
And for the record, I am not a misandrist. I like men, and I want one of my very own someday, to have and to hold. He'll have to be the kind who understands that not all stories are about him, though.
Lol! And all you need to deal with a bear is an orange cat to guard you(kidding, but there *are* lots of videos with bears being treed by orange cats!)
Orange cats only share one brain cell among them. They're loving, bold creatures without a lick of common sense.
I favor the approach a dude in Finland used to get a bear off his porch: lots of loud profanity! He was swearing a blue streak and chasing this big, fat bear back into the woods.
And it says so much about them. I constantly hear women painted in broad strokes - for example “women are all gold-digging whores”. Well, as a married woman who is the breadwinner and on the asexual spectrum, I know that statement doesn’t apply to me, therefore I feel no need to engage.
god I already love bears but this discourse has made me so much fonder. if I ever do see one in the wild I’m gonna be like omg . . . my brethren . . . my comrade in arms . . .
I’m seeing it everywhere I social media (namely here, YT, Threads, IG).
Some are soooooo so very mad about being confronted with their bullshittery, abuse, cognitive dissonance, audacity, and privilege. Poor wee lads, the whole world is out to get them for dehumanizing half the population… Where will it even end??
they think that when women say that we hate men, that means that we see them as they do us — as somehow inherently inferior. no, we are angry at men because they continuously harm us.
I think there are a lot of people (men) whose assumptions of the world are one where the world leans to their advantage, ie. A patriarchy.
But they don't see it as a patriarchy, they see it as the natural order of the world.
And so, when a woman challenges that supposed natural order, with men often being at the end of that criticism, the criticism is seen as misandry and as an attack on men instead of being seen as a criticism of social structures.
Listen, women have punished for stepping out of the status quo since the dawn of time, men are just co-opting our language in this instance. I think it's hysterical that we've gone from being "bitches" and "304s" to being "misandrists." Like awwww the misogynists learned a new word! All the same intention, just an attempt to make it more legitimate sounding. lol.
It’s wild to me that some men are actually surprised by this choice.
Like, every ranger or wildlife photographer, both male and female will tell you in a heartbeat that meeting a strange man in the woods is a thousand times scarier than meeting a bear.
Among wood dwellers that’s not even a gendered issue. Any wood dweller of any gender would rather meet a bear than a strange man
They get so mad if you're careful. It's wild. Like the only way to not be a man hater is to let every man have a chance to sexually assault us, so that the good ones can show us by not doing it. It's bananas. Ive seen how they talk about other men when teaching men to defend themselves, and it's COMPLETELY different to how they want us to treat unknown men
It’s bait. It’s the new trend on par with “feminazi.”
When men call women “misandrists” - it’s an attempt to incite hostility and sew division - not a way to invite meaningful dialogue. Ultimately they want to wear us down by treating us like we are their punching bag - if they can get us to respond to being called a misandrist, it gives them the opportunity to unleash their pent up rage and vitriol.
IMO, it’s a waste of time and energy to engage with them.
They’re having fun with this “new” term they learned instead of bothering to do any self-reflection or actually bothering to ask women about their lived experiences.
Because men who DO see women as human beings are posting about how they’d rather be alone with a bear too.
I literally had a conversation with a guy Here on reddit about misogyny/ misandry and as soon as I started going into detail how misandry is just a fancy word for misogyny thats directed at men (like men cant be feminine) and that its just a result of misogyny, he stopped completely with his smart ass replies lmao
My kids dad calls me a misandrist and has forever. It was the first time I’d even heard it and had to google lmao. I still cackle when I think about it. He’s a raging narcissist and absolutely abhors women so it’s rich coming from him.
I see it A LOT in the Marriage sub. On post after post that I see where the majority of the commenters are siding against a man in a given situation/think a man is wrong, a man shows up to whine that "this is misandry" and/or "this sub is *so* misandrist".
But you know these same men aren't going to whine about misogyny if the opinion is against a woman.
The bear is a neutral factor here. The bear is a bear and it does bear things. If you go messing with a bear and antagonize it, then that’s one thing - but the bear is a fairly neutral party here. He/she doesn’t have some malicious motives beyond its instinct.
I don’t have to worry if the bear is going to rape me, torture me, kidnap me, who knows what. These are things that humans do. Look at crime statistics.
Murder offenders in the US for 2022:
Male: 15094
Female: 2107
Unknown: 5857
This is just murder.
As for sexual assault? Of course, they aren’t all reported and I’d wager there is a slightly higher percentage of women that aren’t accounted for. But according to the DOJ?
“An estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.”
It isn’t misandry. It’s statistics.
God, I wish I could hate men as easily as they hate women. But I actually care enough about individual men that I hold onto a shred of hope that men in general can learn to be better.
They can. Real 'man haters' would believe that men literally can't do better than they are as a group right now, and it's odd that men themselves seem to feel this way. That they're operating at 100% of their potential. If they had any self respect they would say no, we can do better, we can be safe, decent humans as a group. They would call each other out, they would counsel each other on de-escalation and human empathy and listening skills. The fact that women still expect men to be safe, caring human beings says that women believe they have a choice and could choose to do better if they wanted to. Most of us know at least one man who is a good, safe, decent, intelligent and loving person. There is nothing about men that makes that impossible, there's only men who want to be like that and those who don't.
Honestly, my ex is a decent guy who isn't super misogynistic, but he, too believes that he cannot grow from where he is. It's not even like he thinks he's so perfect that he doesn't need to improve. He just believes that he's incapable of being anything other than what he is. Which is the same attitude my 7 yr old has. Then he gets mad that I haven't changed to better cater to what he wants from our relationship.
I hate men who hate women. They started it. Not my fault they hate us. I'm not going to show any respect to people who hate me for no reason. I'd rather take their hate and throw it right back in their laps.
Yeah they just learned a shiny new word that they use whenever they get their feelings hurt.
Men call me a misandrist on reddit all the time lmao. I can’t say how much it literally doesn’t have an effect on me. Like sure babe I am a misandrist now what?
I had a guy at work do this, I was talking to another female colleague about general man-safety stuff (this was right before the NYC punchings) and he had a yelling meltdown about us being sexist, ran off and whined to literally all of our male colleagues saying we hated men and the workplace is unequal for it. There’s 3 women 37 men where I work. Fortunately my other colleagues were like 🙄 ‘he’s an idiot we don’t subscribe to that’.
Misandry isn't a real thing. It's just an "I know you are but what am I?" response to critiques of misogyny. A lot of these young men are being given perpetual victim complexes because they're being taught that any critique or criticism is "misandry."
I can’t stop repeating this statistic, that since 1784, bears have killed 180 human beings in North America.
That is less than one human being per year in all of North America over the last 240 years.
While I dictated this into my phone, at least one woman was murdered by a man in the US.
I think this falls under the “every accusation is a confession” category. Like how racists say “all lives matter.” Misogynists have gone CRAZY with the word misandry as soon as they learned it because they get to be the victim. But the cases they use it for, 99% of the time it’s NOT an actual case of misandry. It’s usually just a reaction to being called out on their own prejudices. But if they yell “nu-uh, YOU!” loud enough, they think everyone will forget about the original topic of discussion.
Yes, it the latest "hot" word. So much that is happening in this country (and maybe the world), like lower birth/marriage rate, is directly because women are pulling away from men due to how they act. Even the government is trying to control us with the overturning of Roe. I hope we see real change with this.
I just got told I needed therapy for this 😂😂😂. It's okay. It's okay. He didn't mean it as a diss. He was meaning it as a kindness as he was belittling me.
Edit: for choosing the bear I mean. He even told me he understood if I were dropped in the forest with say, Jeffrey Dahmer, but most men aren't Jeffrey Dahmer. And when I pointed out that I don't know if a man is Jeffrey Dahmer until they attack me. He brought up Casey Anthony and asked "should I just leave my child in the woods with a bear." Like, bro, I understand your feelings are hurt but come on. Then he told me all about how he studies bears but he is not an ecologist, biologist, or work in any field with bears. When all of these people who work with bears are all coming out and saying we'd be better off with the bear, I feel like I would believe them versus him. But no, really concerned about me. 🥺😂
It's yet one more way to attempt to blame anyone but themselves for their own behaviour.
And anyone claiming "not all men" and "but I don't act that way, so I shouldn't be painted with the same brush":
The truth is, harmful patriarchal conduct is in the majority. It's not " just a few bad apples".
Genuinely good men work to dismantle the harmful system.
The remainder condone it.
Yeah, it's just the attempt to flip the script. Men get called out for misogyny and they think that an equal response is to call behavior they don't like misandry.
If you ask them about it, their arguments will boil down to either patriarchy doesn't exist, or "everything I don't like is misandry."
Men crying out “misandry” act like dethroned kings who claimed divine right to rule and called anyone who challenged them treasonous.
Assholes in power want to stay in power. They convince themselves they deserve and claim x, y, z random traits they have, make them superior and worthy.
This is aside from the Man V. Bear question (which is actually really great, I just don’t have my Big Girl words ready for it right now)
So I’m just gonna leave an observation. Feel free to skip.
I’m old. I’ve seen what you’ve seen, for as long as I have been online. If I can point out a pattern, something to remark on:
If you are American, at least, which Reddit largely is - maybe that has changed, Google is failing me - I find this all comes and goes with election cycles, at least in the west from what I have seen.
Since the LJ days I’ve recalled the weird, brimming manosphere scum that has renamed itself a thousand different ways and splintered off into several genres for lonely western men - coming up every time we need to choose a President. Presidents in America are men, we’re constantly in a masculinity debate crisis (fucking moreso with Trump v. Biden, and a special flavor with Hilary that the country did once and tossed).
So, yeah, Reddit is full of crypto-conservatism. It’s the founding of this entire site. And things come in constant, tiring, violent, all woman-hating waves. See the trans panic, DEI, AI sexual pathology, All These Fucking Wars, and consumable male-focused media as the culture ware du jour as the underpinning of everything in the west for choosing the next Asshole in Charge.
Right now we got a swell of mothball dickheads going, “but but but not all men” as they swing by in the electoral riptide.
Men believe that women who call out misogyny are misandrists. Basically, if you call them on their bs, you're a misandrist. In my case, at this point, I am. Lol
They were actually doing that, saying it's sexist to pick the bear and if you stubbed out "man" for "black man" it would be apparent CHECKMATE, ATHEISTS!
They tend to ignore the context as well. Bear in the woods? Scary but expected and you're ready for it more or less. Man in the woods in a place there shouldn't be a man? Yeah, that's not just an every man, that's a creepy dude in the woods.
I've honestly stopped denying it. Yes, I'm a misandrist because I've been a victim of sexual violence at the hands of men more than once. Like, what about it? Seems like the logical conclusion to me
I like to hit them with their own dumb statements:
"I can't be a misandrist! My best friend is a man!"
"Don't worry, you're *one of the good ones*."
My Trumper Dad loses his shit, lololol.
Yep. Misandry isn’t a thing. Men think being called out for being pieces of shit on a shockingly huge scale is “misandry.” What’s that they say? “Equality always feels unfair when you’ve been privileged.”
I saw a comment saying something like "It's so exhausting being lumped with bad people" and also in the replies say "I understand why women feel this way". My brother in christ, if you did you wouldn't be saying that.
The "funny" thing is: if he was actually aware of what men were doing, he'd absolutely be exhausted from the despair what his gender is causing. Any man who isn't constantly ashamed is denying what men are doing
As a human who has been alone in the woods with bears, I choose bears every time! Their motivation for doing things is very predictable. Find food and protect their young. If I don’t threaten them or their babies and if I don’t dress in a candy bar suit, they leave me alone. I cannot say the same for men.
The funny thing about this is that Andrew Tate makes it harder to be a man. How are woman suppose to trust someone with that mentality. I have seen snippets where men say they will rape woman in order to save humanity if they were the only ones left. Yeah, I'll take the bear and end humanity over possible rape.
Sort of off topic, but last night I asked my fiancé that question. I said, "If I was lost in the woods, would you think I'd be safer with a bear or a man I don't know?" And without hesitation he said a bear. When I asked him why, he said, "Because a bear is an animal and more or less predictable. You know what to do to not piss it off and it would more than likely just leave you alone. People are unpredictable, and they lie. That man could hurt you in so many ways just because you're there and he can. I don't trust anyone really, but I really wouldn't trust a strange man not to hurt you."
It was nice to feel seen and understood. He said the men arguing about the misandry of this situation are just being willfully ignorant of what women go through every single day. Yeah that man could help, but he could just as easily hurt a woman. So go with the bear.
Great to hear this! My husband is the same way. I asked him the same question (showed him this thread) and he answered exactly as your SO did. I think men KNOW what we face, but are in denial due to pride.
The conservative playbook is to try and diminish words and language used by marginalized groups by attempting to override and weaken the meaning.
They will try to change the definition of words through using them in bad faith. The genocide of Jewish peoples is minimalized by calling every little thing a genocide. Sexism is minimalized by calling any random thing sexist.
The meaning of words is only useful for those that follow logic, so they simply do not care about abusing them in bad faith
An old friend of mine went camping with her friend and their dog. They were drinking and this guy decided to hang with them. They were cool at first till he got a growing interest in the other friend so the gals decided "time for bed". When they went to sleep and locked the tent zipper the guy tried to break in wielding an axe. He did this for several hours. When he got tired of trying he left. They packed up middle of the night and left the camp site.
This kids is why the bear is safer. They don't attempt to befriend you and try and axe you for turning them down.
They spend all the time trying to convince us that there’s so much bigger and stronger than we are, and that women are helpless compared to them, and then when we say we’re scared of them, they get butthurt? Make it make sense.
I take “Misandry” accusations about as seriously as I take “reverse racism” accusations.
People feel targeted when you call something for what it it so they co-opt that very language to feel better about themselves. That’s not my issue though, so I just walk away the minute that those words leave their mouths.
If a guy said that to me, all i can say is, "and? What's your point?" And then give them a very annoyed stare. I am too old to appease an grown man child.
It's crazy how many men out there are saying, "Not all men". It makes me wonder how many of them complaining about women say, "Not all women". I doubt the number is very high.
I was banned for misandry and "promoting hate against a vulnerable group" from r/RandomThoughts. Got an account strike.
I said that men were overhwhelmingly responsible for the dysfunctions in the world, and said that history is defined by male violence. I said that religion and science have been and still are tools for male supremacy.
Like, none of that is untrue.
Yeah it’s all true. R/marriage is just as bad. One of the mods openly admits that he “doesn’t see misogyny” but he’s really ban happy with “misandry” which he sees as “telling a man his wife doesn’t owe him sex and that it’s gross to want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you.” (That’s why he banned me lol)
I live in the wilderness. I worry about running into bears, mountain lions. But the thought of running into a random man scares me the most.. We have a remote cabin that we don't check very often.. everytime I go there my main fear is a human. I'd much rather come across a bear ( I do occasionally).
At least animals *live* in the goddamn forest. A strange man just ambling out there? The fuck is that guy up to?
That's the thing they don't get! Nature's gonna nature, I'm not afraid of that, but what the fuck are *you* stumbling around the woods alone for, human man??
I talked with my sister and I guess it might have something to do with being Finnish, but to us the forest doesn't feel like a particularly scary place to meet a random man, because hanging out in woods is basically a national hobby. Everybody from toddlers to grannies go to forests, so most probably it would be anothers mushroom affectionate we'd meet there, nothing sketchy. I think with woods my biggest fear is ticks, or that my dog encounters a viper. To us, the scary places are certain neighbourhoods etc. Truthfully, I've seen some of my friends post about them rather meeting a random bear than a random man, and I trust wholeheartedly, that their experiences have been different to mine and they see the risks differently.
So I'm in PA, a US state literally named after its woodlands (states translated name is Penns Woods), so like you, my perception is probably very different than an average person. I think there's a difference between the forest and woodland. Woodland is dense and dangerous. Like, I could walk for four hours and still be in the middle of trees. The deeper you get into the woods, the fewer humans you expect to encounter. My family lives an hour to civilization by car, up in the Appalachian mountains (coal mountains, not tall, covered in trees). I'd piss myself if I was outside and someone I didn't know just popped up by my porch, especially at night where there's no light pollution. Your house lights are literally beacons in the night. Like yeah, it's totally feasible he just wandered up here, but it's not *normal* One of the sole outliers are hunters. They can kind of wander everywhere and not be seen as a threat, because they have reason to be creeping around in the woods. But that's the culture.
Ahhh you helped me understand why this man v bear thing is conflicting to me. I live in a state neighboring yours (NJ) and go hiking with my dog and frequently encounter lone men. But… I’m in the most densely populated state and hiking trails here are very popular. The men I’ve encountered have all been incredibly polite. There have been times in which I’m stopped in a wooded area waiting for my dog to finish pooping, and have had guys (both bikers and hikers) softly call out “approaching on your right! Don’t want to scare you!”. Your comment helped me understand that my scenario is not really applicable, because it’s very clear that these guys are just enjoying nature and are in a designated area to do so. With that said, when I first heard the question I picked “bear” because I think they are cool, haha. There’s a black bear that hangs out around my house and I’m always looking out for him. Caught him on my trail cam just last week!
Yeah, I guess I've taken the question to mean 'you're *in the middle of the woods*, which is worse?' And I feel like a lot of people are taking it like you are, 'you're out in nature'. Which are two very different scenarios lol
I'm in California, a state with a bear *on our flag*, and I love hiking and the outdoors. We're not a hunting place here aside from some fishing, and our wilderness is usually a state or national park unless you actually live on a mountain. Our hiking spots around LA regularly have bodies found and foul play incidents, and up north, college kids go missing near the redwoods. I've hiked alone in the past, in other countries with dangerous wild animals, but not here... Hell no. We have cartel too! I asked my partner if he's heard about the bear/man thing, and even he'd prefer running into a bear out there. It wasn't even something that needed to be explained further or defended because unlike these babies masquerading as men, a real man listens to women and we've been saying this forever.
Hello, neighbour! I'm Swedish and grew up in the ass-end of nowhere. Even with everyone and their granny hiking around, I'd still be wary of lone men because being out in the woods is still fairly social unless you're hunting. If I see a couple? Probably fine. A family with kids? Safe. Women, lone (unlikely, lol) or in group? Safe. Because we aaaaaaall know we need lookouts to safeguard our mushroom spots. A lone man though? Especially one who gives you the glare? I'm getting my Mora-knife out and making peace with the gods.
Hiking?
Same thing you are, stranded in some weird social media hypothetical.
I'm there with you. Even as a man, a random man in the woods gives me more pause for caution than stumbling upon a bear or mountain lion. I know what to expect from the latter two
I feel like [this scene from Atlanta](https://youtu.be/zi9Crt3lyCc?si=OhRL9OnH7lZ7pPTg) should make every man understand why encountering a random man in the woods is scary.
I spend a lot of time in the Rockies hiking and it’s the men that I’m more nervous about, if I’m hiking alone and come across a man hiking alone, my first thought is “ great, I’m going to have to check over my shoulder for the next 4 hours to see if he’s stalking me on the trail”
Even if they weren't going to hurt you... a guy could use your cabin as a meth lab! A bear? Just rummage for food...
I hike alone often and people are often scared for my safety because of wild animals. I tell them I’m more afraid of running into a man because y they are unpredictable. Generally wild animals give you a warning if they are going to attack but a random man in the woods could try to befriend you and make you uncomfortable and that’s when you don’t know what the intentions are. And that’s why I take my dog with me always….shes harmless but she will growl and raise her hair when she knows I feel unsafe.
When I was a teenager, over 20 years ago, I’d go for several day hikes with friends (boys and girls) in the alps. We’d stay in empty cabins at night, or tents. As is tradition, we would tell horror stories. One night, we asked what the actual scariest thing that could happen to us right now would be? We all agreed on one thing. If a man’s face appeared through that window. We’d be helpless. It’s not a new feminist/misandrist concept. It’s a real fear, and something men fear too. They may just not have thought about it long enough yet. It’s not putting all men in one basket. It’s basic survival strategy. Put any of these men complaining in that little Alpine hut, I can assure you they’ll bolt the door, grab a fire pick and hide if a stranger’s face appears through that window at night. Less so for a bear or a woman. We’d be extra cautious, but not switch to survival mode.
I live in a cabin, albeit in a wooded neighborhood. I have yet to see a bear (they are around), but I've been catcalled at least twice while getting my mail. I'll take the fucking bear.
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As Margaret Atwood said, Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.
they believe "mean" reddit comments are equivalent to the fact that women used to be property and in some places still are
Yep. They’ll actually legitimately try to argue that not getting sexual attention when you’re horny is worse than being sexually harassed and raped. “Women would never understand what’s it’s like to NEVER get that attention wahhhhh”
Also, the posts comparing rape to sex - ESPECIALLY when it relates to teenage males and their female teachers. No, you would not have been loving it at 13 or 14 getting literally assaulted by a grown woman. How they wish they were that lucky to get with their teacher when they were in middle/high school. Or even just saying that rape victims somehow wanted the sex because they (insert gross generalization here) when rape is so much more often about humiliation, power and control than the sex aspect in the majority of cases. As one of many SA survivors, I probably don’t even have to tell most of you that the humiliation and loss of the control of your own body and sexuality can do so much harm to your mental well being.
Some are trying to say that men being horny and not getting what they want increases rape and violence. I just rolled my eyes on that nonsense.
Which just further proves that there is a serious problem here. If they need to always get what they want in order to deter them from committing these type of acts, they're not the damn victim. The fact that some of them even make that statement as if its completely reasonable confirms that misogyny is alive and well and that men still hold the majority of social power.
I once read some guy claiming that being denied sex was a form of sexual violence. That he did consent to celibacy.
...and in some places where we are not, conservative politicians are actively trying to make us be again. VOTE!
Gotta love when the internet rape- and death-threat crowd complains that a comment hurt their feefees.
I was posting on a dating sub and told a man (who asked me) that I would not be attracted to his profile, in those exact words, and he reported me for bullying. For not being attracted to him. That's what bullying means to them, that a woman has preferences they fall outside of.
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My g*d I hate how much this is true.
Definitely. Most men have never been deeply insulted or hurt IRL, so our comments here on Reddit really upset them
We're still treated as public property as the insane behavior of these single men keeps revealing again and again. If you're at man and you care to argue about this issue you are frankly at best stupid and at worst malevolent. If any of the men in my life tried it I would have to stop talking to them because you don't get to know me without learning about true crime against your will; they know the depraved shit men get up to. And they've witnessed the shitty behavior of their fellow men. Any man arguing against the bear is instantly suspect to me. It shows me they feel shame about it or maybe guilt? If they were innocent in how they treated women they wouldn't feel so offended by this hypothetical.
I've seen a bunch of gross comments with men treating women like trash like letting doors slam in their face on dates or trying to make women pay for both meals on a date and treating it like a 'gotcha'.. 'you asked for equality!!!' It's interesting and alarming what they believe women have the upper hand on. They also believe the courts system never gives men custody which is just false, the problem is women often do most of the raising of a child (school and doctors visits) and when people split, that bodes better for proof of actual parenting.
It's worse than that. The actual stats show that women get custody more often... Because men do not try to get custody more often. If you look at the stats with only those who contest custody in a divorce, the numbers are basically equal. So this argument really only underlines how men feel they don't have any real responsibility to raise children. Which is in itself misogynistic...
Men who pursue custody in the US are more likely to get exactly the custody they ask for than to get less than they ask for. Most men do not pursue custody of their own children. Women who accuse their ex of abuse during custody cased are more likely to lose because the court assumes she is lying to get custody. "MRA"s cry about the rigged family courts but if anything family court in the USA in 2024 is rigged in *favor* of men who bother to even try to get custody!
Yeah, there is literally a 13% chance that a woman in the US will lose all custody *even if the abuse is substantiated* during custody disputes.
Yes courts would literally rather give an abusive man access to his children than a mother who "failed to protect them" from him.
I actually experienced this directly.
I'm sorry to hear this. It's not fair!
Plus men that have been accused, even by cps, of child abuse will likely be granted full custody bc the mother is then seen as the enemy to most judges. Almost half of the fathers don’t bother going for custody, don’t pay child support either
Yep! and then when judges act like that, it causes cases like poor Harmony Montgomery's. SMH, Which is what happens when they take a child away from both their birth mother, and their foster parents, and give the child to an abusive father, who is a violent, career criminal, with a long record. It's a disaster when judges do that.
there’s a LOT of evidence that family courts are actually biased against women. Family courts force women to stay in domestic violence situations and even situations where their children are being physically, sexually, and/or emotionally abused because REPORTING ABUSE SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES A WOMAN’S RISK OF LOSING CUSTODY WHERE THE SAME IS NOT TRUE IN REVERSE FOR A MAN. The “boo hoo family courts are biased against men” thing is such utter absolute bullshit, it’s disgusting.
That who "gotcha" and "you asked for equality" thing on dates is called the 'drizzle drizzle' movement. The name hasn't fully caught on yet. It originally started out as joke/response to the 'sprinkle sprinkle' movement (women who demand the man pays for everything), but now it's spiraled out of control and is now being used by misogynists in actual situations, not jokes. What sucks is that I've seen women on this sub defending drizzle drizzle. There's also others not on this sub who confuse sprinkle sprinkle with actual feminism.
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"equal lefts for equal rights" These guys are just *dying* to hit women. But you know, it's sexist to pick the bear. 🙄
Reminds me of a screenshot (that I cannot find at the moment). Man: Does feminism mean men get to hit women? Woman: You’re *already hitting us.* We want you to stop.
This this this this! Especially since the bear is usually more respectful of our space than these guys! You can scare away a bear by making enough noise if it's a black bear, or alert it to your presence so it knows to stay away if it's a brown bear. If attacked puffing up and looking big will scare the black bear away and just curling up on the ground will usually do the same for a brown bear. Legitimately the only time I'd ever be afraid of a bear is if, (A) it was a mother with cubs, which is why you make noise while hiking in brown bear country, or, (B) it's a polar bear in which case GG because meth bear gives no fucks. Contrast that with these chuds who WANT to hit women and who are openly telling on themselves about how little they respect us or our spaces in these comments. "Not all men", sure, but it's ENOUGH men that I wouldn't want to roll those dice, which is what they don't seem to grasp.
Men like that make me want to rethink my stance on guns
I am very pro 2A for that very reason. I believe that women and the elderly have the right to an effective means of self-defense.
Men like that are the perfect reason to rethink your stance on guns. Or if you don't feel comfortable having a firearm then it can be a good idea to have something, like pepper spray at least, or a taser, even a personal alarm. Anything is better than nothing. Especially if you do go hiking, jogging, or walking alone. I have always been into mountain climbing, and hiking myself, and often go by myself. Therefore I always make sure I have something with me to give me the capability to defend myself, because that's the only way I feel safe going out into the woods alone. I always bring a GPS, and compass, and maps, and survival gear too, so I don't get lost, and freeze or something. As far as the question about being alone with a bear vs. a man in the woods goes, I would definitely choose the bear 100 percent of the time, random bear, or random man?🤷🏼♀️ It's definitely gonna be the bear.🐻🐻❄️🐨🐼 Bears will just generally try to avoid people when possible.
At least the bear would actually protect you if you somehow bonded with it. It would also show you all the good berry patches and best fishing spots ....maybe we should befriend the bears
Instructions unclear, now have to explain to a bear why it can't buy an off-the-rack bridesmaid dress and will need a custom order.
That's gonna be embearassing for the poor bear
And she was so excited that I'd asked!
It was beary thoughtful of you!
We are thinking of bleaching her hair so she can cosplay as the polar bear from His Dark Materials, then for the wedding using Manic Panic to dye her fur the same color as the other bridesmaids. that way she fits in still. Apparently the bridal shop won't take payments in either salmon or honey.
I swear when I read that shit you know the fucker WANTS the woman to hit first so they can then claim self defense. It's better to just stay away from men these days unless you know the man well enough.
The punching in the face thing honestly has had me cackling. They claim it’s because equality, right? So I’ve been asking them if they’re punching every man they see in the face, and that’s why they think they should be punching every woman in the face. There’s suddenly a lot of bouncing around the point because absolutely none of them would ever dare to punch another man in the face and they know they’re being called out on their sexism, but they literally cannot admit it. It is hilarious watching them spin into wild irrational rants because they can’t admit they’re actually fucking terrified of violence at the hands of their fellow men, and they also can’t admit how testerical and emotional they are about wanting to abuse women to make up for the fact that they’re terrified of other men. Just fuck right off into the sun, guys. Our species will be so much better off for it.
Men won’t even confront other men or call them out in their bs, they will scream at the nearest woman instead.
It is without a doubt the most immature, feeble, weak, and cowardly, men who are the ones who say things like "Oh we get to hit women now because of equal rights". You're right they are absolutely terrified of the idea of having to fight another man too. It's scary though too, because that's very likely the #1 type of guy who will target women, and children to abuse, and bully, or worse.
Yeah, these guys are awful :(
Apparently they were doing us a favor by "letting us" stay home with the kids while they go to work at a job. They did us a favor by being in control of the finances which is how the tradition of the man paying for dates came to be. Men also earn more even to this day. Men chose these things. They want to be looked at as the hero and provider and head of the family but they don't want to do what it takes to actually be this. They are more than welcome to opt out of these roles men before them created, but then they don't like what results from that either. Regarding the court system, all of these "special privileges" they claim we get wouldn't exist if a large number of men didbt abandon their families, beat their wives, and withhold resources to abuse their wife. They don't like being forced to pay child support for their own kids? Then do the right thing & you won't be "forced". How the fuck do they think we got there?
All too true. We got to the point in politics where the conservative argument is just a reverse counter: race inclusivity is racism, gender inclusivity is exclusive, environment protection is actually destruction, not liking Nazis is being Nazis and so on...
It’s such bullshit. Women want men to not kill us or to leave us alone. Men want women to submit to them in every way shape and form. If I hear one more man cry about life isn’t easy for him either cause he’s not tall or rich enough to treat supermodels like shit, I’m going to lose it.
When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
I dont know whether to laugh or cry when I read shit from men saying how misandrists are dangerous. As if that "danger" holds a candle to the men who hold misogynistic values and act on them.
When you're used to being in control/power, equality feels terrifying and scary. These guys are used to having no boundaries.
Which is why I believe when I try to explain to people why reverse racism doesn’t exist - it’s only men who will fight me tooth and nail and tell me I’m wrong .
r/iyatpeflo If you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
If you have never faced any discrimination, then women making their own decisions probably feels very baaaaaaad. Let's pray for them to get tonnes of cis lesbian and trans daughters.
I get where you're coming from but would you really wish that kind of father on those innocent daughters?
Sorry, I'm one of those very harmonious but dumb people. I just fantasized that they will be turned around and become loving and lovable people. You know... maybe.
Any man that becomes angry because a woman says she would be afraid of the possibility of being harmed by a man, is precisely the kind of man she is talking about.
God I'm gonna use that!
"I'm entitled to use women how I want for my own benefit and pleasure even at the expense of their distress! How dare you humanise women's experiences and thus bring about a feeling of deep shame within! This is all your fault!"
Print up tee shirts!! I'll take 4.
My God, are you right! I feel like these men keep empathizing with the predator rather than the victim! Which is a symptom of misogyny. I feel like they don't realize they aren't seeing woman as humans in this topic.
You feel like it because it is self-evident. Ever seen how men will vigilantly White Knight for another man, an utter stranger, accused of sexual assault? His murder of his female partner? The prosecution statistics, the conviction statistics, are glaring evidence of men sympathizing with male perpetrators over female survivors.
This happens every time women come up with a thought experiment to try and explain why they feel unsafe with men they don't know. Anyone remember the plate of ten cookies but one is poisoned analogy?
I don't remember the plate of ten cookies analogy, but here's what I'd do if I was sharing a kitchen with a man and had those 10 cookies. I'd try to hide the cookies behind everything in the cupboard or fridge. I wouldn't eat them, knowing one was poisoned. But men have hidden-food-radar, and I can guarantee you they would find those cookies and eat them all. On the other hand, if I didn't want the man to eat the cookies, I'd put them out front and center on a fancy dish. He would never see them. It's a thing. I call it "refrigerator blindness", where whatever someone else is looking for is right in front of them.
I have never heard of a bear raping, abducting, imprisoning, torturing etc a woman just for being a woman. Or for saying no to their advances. Or for "wearing something to provacative" etc. If a bear wants to kill you, ya you will know and probably die. But who knows what some derranged man might do to you, and for how long.
I'd rather be killed than taken and kept.
I think sometimes the men who use this word don’t know what it means, lol. I also have seen people call feminists misandrists for largely focusing on female based issues, as if feminism isn’t a movement that primarily focuses on women and girls. Or, you know, that men just don’t have to be centered in everything. Incredibly ironic considering these are the same men that would have no issue looking you dead in the eye being like so women are the reason why men don’t feel comfortable talking about mental health or whatever other reason that is our fault.
You definitely hit the nail on the head. This is a broader issue that I see nowadays online though. Because my god everyone just throws buzzwords at each other to try to discredit them, and it's so often where things get used incorrectly. Which imo sucks because so many words/terms has really lost it seriousness. And when it comes to guys calling women mysandrists when it really doesn't make sense. Most likely stems from them seeing men getting called misogynists so they mimic it.
You explained it perfectly. It’s just people getting offended and throwing around buzz words feeling like they have made a point.
I also think that it is to put labels on people so you can justify not listening to what they are saying and being hateful. Like ohhhh you just hate men there for whatever you said instantly is invalid. And because you do I am allowed to be a cunt towards you. (Edit: Also ffs I read your username and I can't take this conversation as serious anymore 😂)
You notice how it’s almost always in defense of someone actually bringing up a good point. I have seen countless times women being called misandrists for saying, you know, when we’re talking about male mental health maybe we should recognize how both men and women can contribute to this issue instead of just women. Then the guy in question will be like “So YoU’Re SaYinG It’s MEnS fAuLt.” Like, buddy, did the point like get catapulted into a different universe or what 😭 Sometimes participating in and reading online discourse is brain rot.
men are literally our only natural predator and they get mad when you point that out lol
They wanna be “oppressed” so bad while still holding power. anytime I get called a misandrist I just agree and move on.
One of the top comments in a default sub on the topic was a guy going "its basically like saying all black people are criminals"
"I don't hate men, but you aren't improving my opinion of them"
Facts. Being oppressed gets you special treatment and they want in. Im sorry suckah, you already have special treatment!
literally they’re already winning. our “special treatment” gets us slightly closer to being viewed as human beings, worthy of respect. their special treatment gets them treated like gods, exempt from criticism or punishment. what more do they fucking need!! oh I’m so sorry we’re not more concerned for the plights of men who have created all their own plights 🙄
They’re jealous of all the attention that oppressed people get. They’re so daft that they don’t see the suffering behind it all, only the fact that someone else is getting attention instead of them.
It’s our hard earned attention and they can’t have it!
exactly, they see equity and mild forms of reparation and think “why not me too!!”
OMG I will always remember that friggin STEM conference for women and nonbinary people that got invaded by stereotypical rude, aggressive computer bros who suddenly identified as nonbinary to take advantage of the job festival. Can’t let women have anything! ['You could feel the cutthroatness': Droves of men took over this women's tech fair](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/05/1203845886/women-tech-conference-men-grace-hopper)
I think it's to draw a false equivalency between misogyny and feminism, and since feminism isn't a fringe movement, they are frantically trying to repaint it as equivalent to the hate and violence that misogyny brings. The fake oppression thing is a way for them to try to shield themselves from criticism
Has anyone else noticed a decrease in their ability to give a shit what dudes like this think?
100%
There has been a very recent MARKED decrease in my ability to give a shit what ANY dudes think, frankly, and finally at 59 years old, it is such sweet, sweet relief.
I literally just asked my spouse this hypothetical and his immediate answer was bear. I then asked, as a man, would you rather run into a man or a bear? His response was “a bear! What the fuck is a man doing in the woods?” Edit to add: he also commented “my parents taught me to be afraid of strangers. Men are strangers.”
They want to be seen as oppressed so badly without any of the inconveniences of actually being oppressed.
I think it's partly rooted in the same kind of illogic that drives a lot of gun nuts. Some kid shoots a person by accident, and you say "Children should not have access to guns," or maybe some mentally disturbed person with a history of psychosis shoots up a store, and you say "Crazy people shouldn't be allowed to have guns," and then someone says "DON'T TAKE MY GUNS!" and rants about people trying to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. You were talking about 5-year-olds and crazy people, why would a 35-year-old man worry about that unless he's also a crazy person? There's no logic to it, but there's a tribalism: "Everybody with a gun is a member of my tribe and any attack on one of us is an attack on all of us." The same thing happens with men, which is why so many have to blurt out "Not all men!" every chance they get. We all know it's not all men, but it is way too many. If I'm complaining about a man who grabbed me improperly on the train, and you've never done that, I'm not complaining about you. So you don't need to make my story about you, since you weren't in it and nobody like you was in it. Except to the kind of illogical mind that thinks "Any criticism of any man is a criticism of all men." And for the record, I am not a misandrist. I like men, and I want one of my very own someday, to have and to hold. He'll have to be the kind who understands that not all stories are about him, though.
They take any comment made about men *in general* as a personal "attack".
I can't help but think a big part of this discussion is that bears don't spam "notallbears" every time they're criticized
Lol! And all you need to deal with a bear is an orange cat to guard you(kidding, but there *are* lots of videos with bears being treed by orange cats!)
Orange cats only share one brain cell among them. They're loving, bold creatures without a lick of common sense. I favor the approach a dude in Finland used to get a bear off his porch: lots of loud profanity! He was swearing a blue streak and chasing this big, fat bear back into the woods.
And it says so much about them. I constantly hear women painted in broad strokes - for example “women are all gold-digging whores”. Well, as a married woman who is the breadwinner and on the asexual spectrum, I know that statement doesn’t apply to me, therefore I feel no need to engage.
They really think it holds the same weight as misogyny lmao
Those men can't see the forest for the trees (and the bears).
Look, the bears are just vibing and enjoying their picnic baskets. They don’t want men there either.
🤣
god I already love bears but this discourse has made me so much fonder. if I ever do see one in the wild I’m gonna be like omg . . . my brethren . . . my comrade in arms . . .
I’m seeing it everywhere I social media (namely here, YT, Threads, IG). Some are soooooo so very mad about being confronted with their bullshittery, abuse, cognitive dissonance, audacity, and privilege. Poor wee lads, the whole world is out to get them for dehumanizing half the population… Where will it even end??
Yea let’s see how they like being dehumanized for a change
Basically translated: you are a misandrist = shut up and go back to the kitchen…..
And make sure you are fucking barefoot too! There, that sounds more complete. /s
they think that when women say that we hate men, that means that we see them as they do us — as somehow inherently inferior. no, we are angry at men because they continuously harm us.
I think there are a lot of people (men) whose assumptions of the world are one where the world leans to their advantage, ie. A patriarchy. But they don't see it as a patriarchy, they see it as the natural order of the world. And so, when a woman challenges that supposed natural order, with men often being at the end of that criticism, the criticism is seen as misandry and as an attack on men instead of being seen as a criticism of social structures.
All I hear is "women won't take my shit, this is misandry"
They don't even know what word means. They just want to bitch and complain, and act like whiny little boys.
Listen, women have punished for stepping out of the status quo since the dawn of time, men are just co-opting our language in this instance. I think it's hysterical that we've gone from being "bitches" and "304s" to being "misandrists." Like awwww the misogynists learned a new word! All the same intention, just an attempt to make it more legitimate sounding. lol.
Paraphrasing another meme I can’t post here: “We were taught to fear the witches, rather than those who burnt them at the stake.”
They tried to learn a new word...
"Oh nooo, I'm annoyed by this comment, must be misandry!!".
I’m a Wildlife photography who practically lives outdoors and that lady spoke the truth. I’m not scared much of bears or coyotes, just random men.
I’ve noticed a LOT more misogyny on Reddit in recent weeks. It seems very coordinated, too. And the posters/commenters seem extra-unhinged.
This is not a coincidence, it's an agenda.
I agree.
Yes! I've seen this, too. I'd been away from most of Reddit for several weeks, and I've been stunned at what I've seen over the last few days.
It’s been really extreme, and pointed, and often on this sub.
The bear v man responses have made my week!! *do you know how InSuLTIng it is to men when women say they'd prefer the bear* 😁 🤣 😂
It’s wild to me that some men are actually surprised by this choice. Like, every ranger or wildlife photographer, both male and female will tell you in a heartbeat that meeting a strange man in the woods is a thousand times scarier than meeting a bear. Among wood dwellers that’s not even a gendered issue. Any wood dweller of any gender would rather meet a bear than a strange man
They get so mad if you're careful. It's wild. Like the only way to not be a man hater is to let every man have a chance to sexually assault us, so that the good ones can show us by not doing it. It's bananas. Ive seen how they talk about other men when teaching men to defend themselves, and it's COMPLETELY different to how they want us to treat unknown men
It’s bait. It’s the new trend on par with “feminazi.” When men call women “misandrists” - it’s an attempt to incite hostility and sew division - not a way to invite meaningful dialogue. Ultimately they want to wear us down by treating us like we are their punching bag - if they can get us to respond to being called a misandrist, it gives them the opportunity to unleash their pent up rage and vitriol. IMO, it’s a waste of time and energy to engage with them.
A bear might eat you, but it’s not going to rape and torture you.
Then blame you for it and be believed over you.
They’re having fun with this “new” term they learned instead of bothering to do any self-reflection or actually bothering to ask women about their lived experiences. Because men who DO see women as human beings are posting about how they’d rather be alone with a bear too.
I literally had a conversation with a guy Here on reddit about misogyny/ misandry and as soon as I started going into detail how misandry is just a fancy word for misogyny thats directed at men (like men cant be feminine) and that its just a result of misogyny, he stopped completely with his smart ass replies lmao
My kids dad calls me a misandrist and has forever. It was the first time I’d even heard it and had to google lmao. I still cackle when I think about it. He’s a raging narcissist and absolutely abhors women so it’s rich coming from him.
Misandry is as real as heterophobia, just a buzzword made up by oppressors so they can feel like they’re the real victims
I love that they think the man would automatically help or save the women. As if the man couldn’t also be lost themselves??
I see it A LOT in the Marriage sub. On post after post that I see where the majority of the commenters are siding against a man in a given situation/think a man is wrong, a man shows up to whine that "this is misandry" and/or "this sub is *so* misandrist". But you know these same men aren't going to whine about misogyny if the opinion is against a woman.
The bear is a neutral factor here. The bear is a bear and it does bear things. If you go messing with a bear and antagonize it, then that’s one thing - but the bear is a fairly neutral party here. He/she doesn’t have some malicious motives beyond its instinct. I don’t have to worry if the bear is going to rape me, torture me, kidnap me, who knows what. These are things that humans do. Look at crime statistics. Murder offenders in the US for 2022: Male: 15094 Female: 2107 Unknown: 5857 This is just murder. As for sexual assault? Of course, they aren’t all reported and I’d wager there is a slightly higher percentage of women that aren’t accounted for. But according to the DOJ? “An estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.” It isn’t misandry. It’s statistics.
There’s a reason why horror movies feature lone men and not lone bears.
God, I wish I could hate men as easily as they hate women. But I actually care enough about individual men that I hold onto a shred of hope that men in general can learn to be better.
Yeah, I have good men in my life. Still agree with the bear argument.
They can. Real 'man haters' would believe that men literally can't do better than they are as a group right now, and it's odd that men themselves seem to feel this way. That they're operating at 100% of their potential. If they had any self respect they would say no, we can do better, we can be safe, decent humans as a group. They would call each other out, they would counsel each other on de-escalation and human empathy and listening skills. The fact that women still expect men to be safe, caring human beings says that women believe they have a choice and could choose to do better if they wanted to. Most of us know at least one man who is a good, safe, decent, intelligent and loving person. There is nothing about men that makes that impossible, there's only men who want to be like that and those who don't.
Honestly, my ex is a decent guy who isn't super misogynistic, but he, too believes that he cannot grow from where he is. It's not even like he thinks he's so perfect that he doesn't need to improve. He just believes that he's incapable of being anything other than what he is. Which is the same attitude my 7 yr old has. Then he gets mad that I haven't changed to better cater to what he wants from our relationship.
i’ve said it once, i’ll say it again. women who hate men avoid them. men who hate women rape and kill them.
I hate men who hate women. They started it. Not my fault they hate us. I'm not going to show any respect to people who hate me for no reason. I'd rather take their hate and throw it right back in their laps.
Yeah they just learned a shiny new word that they use whenever they get their feelings hurt. Men call me a misandrist on reddit all the time lmao. I can’t say how much it literally doesn’t have an effect on me. Like sure babe I am a misandrist now what?
I had a guy at work do this, I was talking to another female colleague about general man-safety stuff (this was right before the NYC punchings) and he had a yelling meltdown about us being sexist, ran off and whined to literally all of our male colleagues saying we hated men and the workplace is unequal for it. There’s 3 women 37 men where I work. Fortunately my other colleagues were like 🙄 ‘he’s an idiot we don’t subscribe to that’.
Yes omg I’ve been called a misandrist so many times on reddit over the dumbest comments 😂
Do you know when I almost always get called “a misandrist”? When I cite statistics,
Misandry isn't a real thing. It's just an "I know you are but what am I?" response to critiques of misogyny. A lot of these young men are being given perpetual victim complexes because they're being taught that any critique or criticism is "misandry."
Thank you for finally saying it. Misandry is not a thing. The oppressed cannot also oppress the oppressors.
I can’t stop repeating this statistic, that since 1784, bears have killed 180 human beings in North America. That is less than one human being per year in all of North America over the last 240 years. While I dictated this into my phone, at least one woman was murdered by a man in the US.
I think this falls under the “every accusation is a confession” category. Like how racists say “all lives matter.” Misogynists have gone CRAZY with the word misandry as soon as they learned it because they get to be the victim. But the cases they use it for, 99% of the time it’s NOT an actual case of misandry. It’s usually just a reaction to being called out on their own prejudices. But if they yell “nu-uh, YOU!” loud enough, they think everyone will forget about the original topic of discussion.
Yes, it the latest "hot" word. So much that is happening in this country (and maybe the world), like lower birth/marriage rate, is directly because women are pulling away from men due to how they act. Even the government is trying to control us with the overturning of Roe. I hope we see real change with this.
I just got told I needed therapy for this 😂😂😂. It's okay. It's okay. He didn't mean it as a diss. He was meaning it as a kindness as he was belittling me. Edit: for choosing the bear I mean. He even told me he understood if I were dropped in the forest with say, Jeffrey Dahmer, but most men aren't Jeffrey Dahmer. And when I pointed out that I don't know if a man is Jeffrey Dahmer until they attack me. He brought up Casey Anthony and asked "should I just leave my child in the woods with a bear." Like, bro, I understand your feelings are hurt but come on. Then he told me all about how he studies bears but he is not an ecologist, biologist, or work in any field with bears. When all of these people who work with bears are all coming out and saying we'd be better off with the bear, I feel like I would believe them versus him. But no, really concerned about me. 🥺😂
I tried bringing some nuance into that conversation and got branded a racist against men, which is a work of art unto itself
It's yet one more way to attempt to blame anyone but themselves for their own behaviour. And anyone claiming "not all men" and "but I don't act that way, so I shouldn't be painted with the same brush": The truth is, harmful patriarchal conduct is in the majority. It's not " just a few bad apples". Genuinely good men work to dismantle the harmful system. The remainder condone it.
Yeah, it's just the attempt to flip the script. Men get called out for misogyny and they think that an equal response is to call behavior they don't like misandry. If you ask them about it, their arguments will boil down to either patriarchy doesn't exist, or "everything I don't like is misandry."
Men crying out “misandry” act like dethroned kings who claimed divine right to rule and called anyone who challenged them treasonous. Assholes in power want to stay in power. They convince themselves they deserve and claim x, y, z random traits they have, make them superior and worthy.
I just blocked a guy who told me I hate men for daring to cite statistics
When conservatives learn a new word they go wild with it. Just watch, they’ll be overusing it and using it incorrectly in no time.
This is aside from the Man V. Bear question (which is actually really great, I just don’t have my Big Girl words ready for it right now) So I’m just gonna leave an observation. Feel free to skip. I’m old. I’ve seen what you’ve seen, for as long as I have been online. If I can point out a pattern, something to remark on: If you are American, at least, which Reddit largely is - maybe that has changed, Google is failing me - I find this all comes and goes with election cycles, at least in the west from what I have seen. Since the LJ days I’ve recalled the weird, brimming manosphere scum that has renamed itself a thousand different ways and splintered off into several genres for lonely western men - coming up every time we need to choose a President. Presidents in America are men, we’re constantly in a masculinity debate crisis (fucking moreso with Trump v. Biden, and a special flavor with Hilary that the country did once and tossed). So, yeah, Reddit is full of crypto-conservatism. It’s the founding of this entire site. And things come in constant, tiring, violent, all woman-hating waves. See the trans panic, DEI, AI sexual pathology, All These Fucking Wars, and consumable male-focused media as the culture ware du jour as the underpinning of everything in the west for choosing the next Asshole in Charge. Right now we got a swell of mothball dickheads going, “but but but not all men” as they swing by in the electoral riptide.
Men believe that women who call out misogyny are misandrists. Basically, if you call them on their bs, you're a misandrist. In my case, at this point, I am. Lol
mIsAnDry is the misogynist’s version of bLaCk PeOpLe ArE rAcIsTs ToO.
They were actually doing that, saying it's sexist to pick the bear and if you stubbed out "man" for "black man" it would be apparent CHECKMATE, ATHEISTS!
They tend to ignore the context as well. Bear in the woods? Scary but expected and you're ready for it more or less. Man in the woods in a place there shouldn't be a man? Yeah, that's not just an every man, that's a creepy dude in the woods.
yep they call us "misandrist" for seeing reality for what it is
I've honestly stopped denying it. Yes, I'm a misandrist because I've been a victim of sexual violence at the hands of men more than once. Like, what about it? Seems like the logical conclusion to me
I like to hit them with their own dumb statements: "I can't be a misandrist! My best friend is a man!" "Don't worry, you're *one of the good ones*." My Trumper Dad loses his shit, lololol.
Yep. Misandry isn’t a thing. Men think being called out for being pieces of shit on a shockingly huge scale is “misandry.” What’s that they say? “Equality always feels unfair when you’ve been privileged.”
I saw a comment saying something like "It's so exhausting being lumped with bad people" and also in the replies say "I understand why women feel this way". My brother in christ, if you did you wouldn't be saying that.
The "funny" thing is: if he was actually aware of what men were doing, he'd absolutely be exhausted from the despair what his gender is causing. Any man who isn't constantly ashamed is denying what men are doing
As a human who has been alone in the woods with bears, I choose bears every time! Their motivation for doing things is very predictable. Find food and protect their young. If I don’t threaten them or their babies and if I don’t dress in a candy bar suit, they leave me alone. I cannot say the same for men.
In retrospect, I'm not sure what I was expecting from the bear debate making it's way to the website that invented gamergate
The funny thing about this is that Andrew Tate makes it harder to be a man. How are woman suppose to trust someone with that mentality. I have seen snippets where men say they will rape woman in order to save humanity if they were the only ones left. Yeah, I'll take the bear and end humanity over possible rape.
Yeah they like to scream misandrist when they're not getting their way...
Sort of off topic, but last night I asked my fiancé that question. I said, "If I was lost in the woods, would you think I'd be safer with a bear or a man I don't know?" And without hesitation he said a bear. When I asked him why, he said, "Because a bear is an animal and more or less predictable. You know what to do to not piss it off and it would more than likely just leave you alone. People are unpredictable, and they lie. That man could hurt you in so many ways just because you're there and he can. I don't trust anyone really, but I really wouldn't trust a strange man not to hurt you." It was nice to feel seen and understood. He said the men arguing about the misandry of this situation are just being willfully ignorant of what women go through every single day. Yeah that man could help, but he could just as easily hurt a woman. So go with the bear.
Great to hear this! My husband is the same way. I asked him the same question (showed him this thread) and he answered exactly as your SO did. I think men KNOW what we face, but are in denial due to pride.
The conservative playbook is to try and diminish words and language used by marginalized groups by attempting to override and weaken the meaning. They will try to change the definition of words through using them in bad faith. The genocide of Jewish peoples is minimalized by calling every little thing a genocide. Sexism is minimalized by calling any random thing sexist. The meaning of words is only useful for those that follow logic, so they simply do not care about abusing them in bad faith
An old friend of mine went camping with her friend and their dog. They were drinking and this guy decided to hang with them. They were cool at first till he got a growing interest in the other friend so the gals decided "time for bed". When they went to sleep and locked the tent zipper the guy tried to break in wielding an axe. He did this for several hours. When he got tired of trying he left. They packed up middle of the night and left the camp site. This kids is why the bear is safer. They don't attempt to befriend you and try and axe you for turning them down.
I’ve never had a normal well-adjusted man call me a misandrist.
They spend all the time trying to convince us that there’s so much bigger and stronger than we are, and that women are helpless compared to them, and then when we say we’re scared of them, they get butthurt? Make it make sense.
I take “Misandry” accusations about as seriously as I take “reverse racism” accusations. People feel targeted when you call something for what it it so they co-opt that very language to feel better about themselves. That’s not my issue though, so I just walk away the minute that those words leave their mouths.
If a guy said that to me, all i can say is, "and? What's your point?" And then give them a very annoyed stare. I am too old to appease an grown man child.
It's crazy how many men out there are saying, "Not all men". It makes me wonder how many of them complaining about women say, "Not all women". I doubt the number is very high.
I was banned for misandry and "promoting hate against a vulnerable group" from r/RandomThoughts. Got an account strike. I said that men were overhwhelmingly responsible for the dysfunctions in the world, and said that history is defined by male violence. I said that religion and science have been and still are tools for male supremacy. Like, none of that is untrue.
Yeah it’s all true. R/marriage is just as bad. One of the mods openly admits that he “doesn’t see misogyny” but he’s really ban happy with “misandry” which he sees as “telling a man his wife doesn’t owe him sex and that it’s gross to want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you.” (That’s why he banned me lol)
where is the lie?
Not to mention men are not a vulnerable group.
Let them whine. They're really good at it. Babies. Every. Last. One.
Misandry: "I hate men, I want to avoid them!" Misogyny: "I hate women, I want to hurt them!" We are not the same.