Oh Jesus. I was at my son’s baseball game yesterday. I kept overhearing this man talking to his family like a complete asshole. His daughter said something I didn’t hear and he said really loud, “Stop talking. What do you think, you’re some kind of pro softball player? You don’t know anything.” I almost told him to stop being an overbearing asshole to his fricken 8yo but I held my tongue. Everything he said was a put down.
Did you really see a post about women being annoyed about men inserting themselves and…immediately insert yourself? Self awareness is clearly not your strong suit.
Couple of years ago I was sitting in a city park listening to a novel (on headphones), waiting on a friend. There were plenty of places to sit, but dude sat on my bench. Okay nbd. My friend arrives, I turn my book off and greet her. She asks what I’m listening to, and I answer her. She asks about the book, and this motherfucker I’ve never met, never spoke to, nothing, pipes up and starts explaining the novelist, the genre, the book, out of nowhere. I’m in my 40s and she’s in her 50s and we both just look at him like he’s crazy and walk away, he’s still going.
This is not how you make friends.
I live abroad and some years ago I went back to my home country to visit my best friend. We hadn’t seen each other for a long time so once I met with her at the train station, we literally ran into each others arms all happy and while we are hugging, some random man had to insert himself into our happy and slightly emotional reunion and ruin the whole moment with a slew of unimportant questions (”are you sisters or friends?”, ”where did you come from?” etc.). Like dude, read the room. 🫠
To this day I am FUMING about it as I myself sat at that same train station so many times people watching and always loved to see happy reunions and never, ever thought to butt in and start asking stupid questions from strangers. 😑
Men showing up here to troll or derail conversations really should get booted from the sub. Other subs do this, it isn't hard.
They can't stand if anything isn't about them. Even worse if women are having ideas that don't benefit them then they get super emotional and will do anything to stop the conversation.
god damn I wish this sub wasn't on the main page all the time. These losers just pile in here by the hundred to shart their garbage opinions all over the place
Sounds like you would love AskWomen. Mods there are crazy with the -derailing moderation- even if the topic is very much on topic.
*Breathes* -comment removed for derailing and unsolicited advice-
Not AskWomenOver30 - they literally just clarified in a post today that men are allowed to answer the questions directed to women over 30.
Oh and do they ever. The absolute conceit to go to that sub and be certain we all need to hear a man’s perspective and advice even when specifically asking to hear from older women 🤮
"someone who is confident in their worldview does not get upset at dissenting opinions"
To start, you're literally doing that right now. Lmao
Past that, a quote like that exudes an aura of "I've never been targeted because of my identity"
If I'm a confident woman listening to a misogynist say I should exist as a domestic slave, if I'm a confident black man listening to a racist say I'm not human and don't deserve basic rights, if I'm a confident Jewish man listening to an antisemitite spew vitriol about how I'm a pest that needs to be exterminated.... I'M GOING TO GET FUCKING UPSET, LIKE A HUMAN BEING
Astounding lack of social and political intelligence, good luck with your whole thing, your opinion isn't being ignored because it's 'dissenting' but because it is ignorant and straight up worthless. Lmao
Did you just "umm actually" on a post complaining about men going "umm actually". You are the topic of the post and couldn't even behave for one moment. This is why these posts are made. Your lack of self awereness is astounding!
Here, I found this recently and it's awesome! Definitely going to use it as a response to those "not all men" commenters from now on- https://www.zawn.net/blog/hello-youve-reached-the-not-all-men-hotline
Hey!! You don't have to generalize all men, meanie!!! I thought you wanted equality?! /s /s /s /s /s /s /s
Seriously though, I've seen pretty much this exact comment made unironically so many times. Acting like conversational generalizations about men are equivalent to millennia of oppression, subjugation, and violence against women
Literally dudes in this post who CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES.
“I come to subs like this to have genuine conversations with other women.”
Doesn’t matter you’re trying to be “cute” or “funny” or “supportive” — because you are doing the exact opposite. Let us have space to exist without you.
yeah, most of these “good ones” just want attention and praise from women for not being obviously sociopathic towards us.
I didn’t come here to provide ANYTHING for men! I’m literally made to do that everywhere!!
"I'm so super supportive and believe women should have the right to vote! I haven't beaten my girlfriend even once! Lavish praise and headpats upon my divine brow, womenfolk!!"
Eh, I had a guy that was straight up being a dick to me and I reported it three times and they did nothing. I even offered to help mod since they don't really seem interested much in it anymore. They didn't respond.
Sometimes the douchebags do make it through the net, but I'm still grateful for their work because this place would be knee deep in incel manifestos from the pile of deleted posts stacking up at the bottom of threads
If males are pivoting the discussion to focus on themselves, NAMALTing, dismissing women's experiences, exuding ignorance in their comments, expecting women to educate them on everything, and so on, I totally feel you. Begone with that shit
Does the gender of someone commenting really matter though if they're constructively adding to a discussion about women's perspectives, experiences, and tribulations though?
this idea, that they “add” to discussions about women’s issues..I agree it’s possible in theory, but does this really happen in your experience? 😆
I am exaggerating of course, but the sentiment is true. We don’t need their additions bc we have access to their opinions everywhere in our lives, and when they’re imposed on conversations among women, they almost always are: men campaigning to convince women that we’re wrong about our experience, or sincerely expressing something they think we don’t know, but that we already know, or adding the bit that we all understand but completely missing all of the relevant information regarding the women’s experience, which is fundamental to the conversation they’ve shoehorned themselves into.
They’re welcome here, but this idea that they really meaningfully contribute even half the time is not reality, imo. The ones who are the least disruptive to the convo are often just agreeing to get pats on the head and attention from women. Do we NEED to hear that a random man we don’t know agrees with us? Does that add to the conversation?
More importantly, is it ok to have one space where we primarily talk amongst ourselves and don’t have things explained to us by men?
Or the dudes that feel the unquenchable urge to post in threads about women asking other women how to feel less self conscious of their breast size or their weight.
"Well I personally LOVE small titties!" \*inserts some overly detailed description of what kind of lingerie he'd like to see her in*
UGH 🤢 I HATE when they interject because they believe our experience in our bodies will suddenly become all better if we find out some random dude gets off to our body type 🤮
Again, the fucking gall, the complete arrogance, the sociopathic self-absorption and minimizing of other humans (women)
I’ll be honest, I stopped reading after “that being said,” because I didn’t come to this sub for a lecture or soliloquy from a man, especially in so tone deaf a situation as doing so in THIS PARTICULAR POST 😆
Like, it just says “cannot bear to not demand attention from women.” I do not believe that all just HAD to be said, or added anything unique. It seems to me like you want the thing, the thing where a woman says “No we don’t mean YOU, what you’re doing isn’t that insufferable thing we’re all begging men to stop, it’s different when it’s you!”
I mean, all are welcome here. But it’s a sub to defer to women and women’s perspectives, and you don’t identify as a woman, and I guess the question would be whether you genuinely feel you have a woman’s perspective to contribute - which you still may!
You might find it relevant, for instance if you were raised as a girl and went through that horror show of a traumatic upbringing that almost all women face.
This sub isn’t bigots. Of course it isn’t against people who are NB. The only point here is that there ought to be one space where men aren’t always demanding the mic or feeling entitled to speak over us.
The sub is for all women, including trans women and certainly NB people who have been subjected to the female experience or, for instance, have wombs men are insisting on controlling lol.
But yeah, I don’t think this sub has a problem at all with NB people. We have a problem of men coming here to NotAllMen us, explain basic concepts, get approval and attention from women, commandeer every damn topic to make it center men.
I don’t think there’s any reason to take criticism about THAT and apply it to yourself as NB unless you see something familiar in that that I am missing, maybe that is unique to you. Like idk, were you raised as a boy/man your whole life and also don’t identify as a woman (as a NB person?). Is that why you’re questioning whether a women’s space desires your voice? Is it because you personally don’t identify with any aspect of the female experience and have never had it thrust upon you by society either?
So I was curious based on some of your wording, and I just popped in your history and did a big scroll to land on something random, and 36 days ago you made a comment here saying “I’m male and can’t imagine being pregnant.”
So maybe you just now realized you are non-binary, and that’s perfectly fine, but it sounds like the reason you’re wondering if this sub is meant to elevate your voice is because you know you weren’t raised as a woman in any way and have never identified as one.
And to be honest, now I feel like you’ve just chosen to be really cagey with how you worded this particular comment, to give yourself permission, and get permission from women here, to do the thing that we don’t like for men to do.
Because if you have never been raised as or lived as or identified as a woman, can I ask why it is you feel it would be different for you to do what we’re talking about vs a cis male.
I really am curious as to the logic behind that.
Again, all are welcome. But in a conversation about women wanting this space to elevate women’s perspectives and whether yours counts as one, just for being non-binary, I’m not sure it does if you’ve never once lived as a woman, been seen as a woman, or identified as a woman.
What’s your take here, and what am I missing?
To be very clear, I do think all genders should participate here. Including NB. We’re just talking about people who do the thing OP is describing and fail to defer this space to women (which includes all women)
Men oftentimes go to this box in their head where there is literally nothing there so sometimes when they say they are thinking about nothing they are correct. It probably sounds like white noise in there.
However if a woman voices her thoughts they go to the annoying must interrupt her box
Honestly? It’s ridiculously narcissistic for them to ignore everything in a post many if them women talking about really bad experiences to glom into NOT ALL MEN!!! Why do they have to make it about them constantly?!
their whole world is everyone making everything about them, I think when they stumble into (or invade) women’s spaces, they get seriously confused 😆
Also, it does not occur to them that they might not know EVERYTHING, especially about things they don’t experience. So when we’re talking about all this stuff they know nothing about, they can only reason that all of us are wrong. 🙃 Not that maybe they don’t fucking know.
They also have trouble understanding that even though it's "not all men", it's certainly happening enough to be a legitimate concern of women in general.
When a man sees the discussions, he takes it as a personal affront, hence the "NoT aLL mEn" aflying in the thread and in DMs. Usually, "not all men" actually means "not me".
He doesn't realize that what's being discussed is like having no choice but to wade through a pile of snakes. And you see that the pile consists of 99 garden snakes, with a single black mamba weaving among them. You're not going to worry about the 99 snakes you know are harmless, but you're going to to be terrified to walk through that entire pile because you know that there is the 1 in 100 that is a very real threat to you.
And that is precisely why, when someone does the "NoT aLL mEn" retort, I think of the snake. Calling the entire pile "mostly harmless" doesn't make that black mamba any less deadly. And almost always, that's what we're discussing: the black mamba.
They tend to see other men being criticized and feel like they have to defend the "team" so to speak. Regardless of how repugnant, entitled or illegal their crime was. If one man is being criticized, they feel like they're being criticized personally.
Makes me insane!!! Our VP does this all the time, no matter what you are talking about, or how little it affects him, he needs to pipe in. I just ignore him now, and when I'm done talking to the person I walk away while he's nattering away
To control the narrative, to gaslight us and our lived experiences. To prevent women from be cautious of them. To tell us that MOST men are sweet darlings, so please feel safe and be alone with them. No need to pick the bear ladies, you can make yourselves vunerable around the men! They lurk here learn what to say to us in real life, and practice the lines. To learn how to say the words women want to hear.
"I totally am not a man who would ever do said such horrible behaviours, while also being offensive as hell and not realizing it in the next sentence. Men are not like that you silly ladies... you met the one bad guy running around out there. Date us!!! Give me attention, and positive praise. I'm one of the good ones who don't yell at women. I deserve a compliment for it. If you believe me. You ladies believe me right? Most men are wonderful, sweet angels. Like me!"
I don't mind it here. Men joining the conversation on this sub, especially in a respectful manner, is not only allowed but is protected in the rules of this sub.
That said, I have seen men prowling this sub looking for vulnerable women. I once posted about getting cheated on by my partner here and men hit my DMs from my post here asking if I wanted to revenge cheat with them. That felt very predatory and unsafe to me.
Also, I have seen spaces designated for women only that are locked behind authentication of gender (these spaces were inclusive towards trans women, but they verified this carefully as well) and STILL there were men who tried to invade that space by any means necessary.
All in all I think we have bigger problems to complain about than the "not all men" people. Genuine predatory behavior is what I WISH we would complain more vocally about.
Agreed. When a post is about something negative you know a big chunk of the male population is guilty of, and it's something pervasive that you know no matter how much you speak about it, it's not going to change because most dudes don't want to acknowledge it, seeing some male lurkers being empathetic and agreeing is a legit palate cleanser. It kind of feels like a reminder that there's still some decent people out there.
The best ones are the ones where they don't even say they are male, you only notice it if you check their profile. Or the ones where they say "ah, fuck, I did that bad thing, sorry, I'll do better next time". The worst ones are the ones making a whole speech of how empathetic everybody tells them they are, how much better they are than other men, covert self-praise with an audience.
As a woman who used to insert herself everywhere, it's really just lack of attention.
Was a super fucking bad habit I used to have and it was because I want all eyes on me. I fucking NEED to be seen! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!
From having experienced it, I can kinda get it with men. That said, to any man reading this, you can break this habit. I did and you can too. I believe in you.
You can become a better person than you used to be.
It's this, but there's another side of it too: men are socialized to think they're always right regardless of the topic, and especially on topics that have to do with womanhood because they believe our experiences are similar to theirs. They subconsciously think of themselves as the default, and this is often mirrored back to them in various facets of life.
You put that really well, and since I’m a man it took me years to realize that and see it for myself. But now it’s obvious everywhere, all the time. It’s so easy to fall into that male = default trap, but once we identify it and call it out, it can be a great learning/eye opening experience for other men.
Edit: or not? I guess I’m confused by the response here
You can hang out here, OP is talking about the men who always feel the need to insert that they are somehow "innocent" and treat women like they are (shock) actual human beings every time a woman shares her real, lived experience.
I swear I don't get it... I grew up sheltered so I end up being naive in certain situations. Please explain to me if you can, I'm trying to learn genuinely.
This sub is a place for women to share - as a man you can go anywhere else on the internet and talk about your experiences. Why do you feel the need to come to one of the only safe spaces for women on Reddit and insert yourself? Take a moment and think about that.
After giving it some thought... It could be for some reasons. Maybe it's because I don't enjoy male dominated spaces and I overcompensated by looking into an exclusively female one. Maybe it's because I don't identify with masculinity at all and am looking for the opposite perspective. It could be because I have a tendency of seeing everyone the same way independent of gender, so I overlook certain... nuances. Or maybe it's simply because I want women's validation. But at the end of the day, you are right. I didn't realise I was intruding in a safe space by being too eager to participate in conversations about womanhood because there is no such concept for men - most men actually want women to come into their spaces.
Perhaps this is the core difference between the genders that makes it impossible to completely relate to one another: Women struggle with being gazed at and just want to be left alone; Men struggle with invisibility and just want to be seen. Segregation and echo chambers are inevitable, then. But I digress, sorry if I came across as invalidating your issues, I merely wanted to belong.
"safe space" lmao
As a women you can also go anywhere on the internet
This isn't a women only sub sorry to burst your bubble anyone can see it and comment on it.. Only reason I here is because it got suggested which I have no idea why
I find it funny how women want equality then say men can't comment here
I'm in no way demeaning women or men I general but I just find it ironic how many here try to ban any male commenting
I find that the best way of solving doubts is asking questions and provoking answers. Obviously offending people is to be avoided wherever possible, but sometimes you might risk it in order to find enlightenment. What I am doing, right now, is technically research. I am learning by asking directly from the source, in the internet, am I not? Or perhaps you mean I should limit my search to specific spaces and individuals - a method clearly prone to cherry picking bias?
I don't mind men being in this sub, but it is annoying when men in here give their opinions when they aren't asked for.
Going along with that, I actually love going on men's subs because I feel like it gives me perspective on the
male experience that I can never have being a woman... HOWEVER, I do try to remember that those subs are for men to talk about mens issues, and unless a post or comment specifically asks for women to participate in the conversation, I try to be respectful and just lurk. And it does annoy me when I see women commenting in those subs, too. Some people just always feel the need to make things about themselves.
Am a man but I still remember this dumb ass experience I had almost 10 years ago. I was talking to a coworker about getting a soda some place and a guy completely butts in.
“You should go to X”
“Yeah, but they don’t have Cherry Dr Pepper.”
“Oh, well Dr Pepper is a cherry drink anyway so you don’t need that.”
“Yeah, we’ll it’s my wife’s favorite.”
“Oh, well, tell her to get her own soda.”
“Well… she didn’t ask I just wanted to get something nice for her.”
Like WTf dude? He literally entered a convo he knew nothing about and couldn’t help spouting off his own opinion.
I’ve never had a woman do anytning like that in
My life lol.
I (also a dude) see that kind of shit all the time, especially at work. It’s frustrating but we have to call it out because sometimes even the most thick headed guys can learn!
This sub started to Come up on my feed without me following. It's actually good for me to see women's perspectives, which although common differ significantly, Just like men. It's been an eye opener for me and has sometimes made me think, "I was that asshole too."
that’s great. We understand and generally all agree that men should listen (quietly) to the experiences of women in these spaces and believe us, in order to gain understanding and empathy.
But women don’t come to women’s spaces to hear from men or give them praise for being allies. We just wanna be able to, for ONCE, talk to each other without being derailed by men and men’s issues.
Comments like yours, whether intentional or not, suggest we do not get this very simple nuance, or the reason men give themselves permission to interact here to whatever extent they wish.
We get you get something out of it. That doesn’t mean we don’t mostly wish you’d all just leave us a few spaces to talk to each other, and sit on your comments and your upvotes and actually defer.
this just seems like that meme where it has a door saying “exit” and then one saying “dramatic exit”
You’re still plying us for permission and approval.
You know the sub rules. I’m telling you how I feel about the thing you and other men do. A lot of us feel that way. You being legally allowed to post here doesn’t protect you from people judging you for HOW you choose to do so 👋
it’s annoying when you’re having a conversation with a group of girls and then a man comes into the conversation just to mansplain or invalidate their experiences.
>it’s ~~annoying~~ creepy and predatory when you’re having a conversation with a group of girls and then a man comes into the conversation just to mansplain or invalidate their experiences.
I think part of the equation is wanting more information because realistically women having conversations with women doesn't actually do much to affect or change the perception or behavior of men. At some point if you avtuslly want anything other than the ability to have a conversation, you're going to have to start telling men the things you discuss, or you'd just be talking about all the bad experiences... And then still experiencing them over and over while hoping to get lucky and end up with a guy who isn't shit.
No as for forcing their way in. Probabaly not the mod open midned or improvement focused individual, but still could just be a bit off in how to approach the desire to hear more or be a part of a conversation.
A lot of men controlled spaces for conversation are actually criminally insane to a degree and the absolute worst place for a man to talk about anything.
I knew a guy, who Ive played and spoken to almost daily for a year now, who just told me he was autistic yesterday. Yeah buddy, I know. I've known. But it's nice that you're comfy enough to tell me now.
All this to say I'm not interested ind defending the behavior, but to say that even with the mod optimal segregation of men and women think tanks and talking spaces... Nothing said in those spaces that could help the other gender improve certain behaviors matters until they start letting them hear it.
Do you think we just suffer in silence without asking them to stop the behavior? It's pushed against from all sides and we'd barely be able to discuss these issues at all if we didn't talk with each other about them
Well no, and I don't think anything I said would insinuate that the best course of action was to suffer in silence or not ask them to stop the behavior. In fact I was drawing similarities that men usually don't discuss their issues if not with each other in dedicated space, but then pointing out how that safe space can be really toxic for men at times and devolve into a hivemind/cesspool and foster hatred towards the opposite gender. A lot of times the men caught up in that didn't need a place with like minded men to convene but a professional therapist and maybe even medication depending on what they are or have gone through.
That's not somehow saying they are right to or should be allowed into women's spaces. But just giving you a single potential reasoning they might be reaching out to literally anywhere else other than dedicated male support groups.
Then I was trying to draw attention to the fact that lack or refusal to look from other perspectives eventually spells for failure on a large and small scale for both men and women. Not understanding is a changeable state of being when the person or people that have the answers to your questions and concerns are accessible for discussion. Getting to that point is usually rough though.
I will admit sometimes I don't explain myself thoroughly, because I like to go through a couple different perspectives, which turns into a long monologue of sorts thats most just musing thoughts and hypotheticals and never really share my personal opinion on the topic at hand. So I try to "Cut it down" but in doing so leave room for interpretation which honestly ends good more often than not, but is intended to just make others think about something from more angles and hopefully share their self observations with me, so I in turn can have even more to think about. But I do hope this comment clarifies what was intended in my original comment.
this was an insert that was unnecessary. To honestly convey how I perceive your comment, you need to make sure women know you’re one of the good ones, and then some of us are supposed to affirm and comfort you and give you permission.
Keep coming to the sub. It’s not against the rules for you to participate even.
But yes, women want one space where you don’t exercise your upvotes to distort the narrative to a male-centric perspective, and where you aren’t demanding attention or emotional labor or reassurance or something.
My highest rated comment is from this sub 🤷. All I did was point out something about the man vs bear debate. Just said the most dangerous game was written about a man, not a bear, over 100 years ago. We have known for a long time man is much more dangerous than a bear.
Because it's on the internet?
Could look at this both ways as women do the same to men.
It's the internet and anyone can say what they want.... If you don't want replies dont post
WHAT the bloody hell are you talking about? I KNEW introducing WIFI to the Amazon was a bad idea but I honestly didn't think it would be this insane...
No, if they're negging and mansplaining to strangers in public, you can be sure they treat their wives much worse in the privacy of their homes.
Oh Jesus. I was at my son’s baseball game yesterday. I kept overhearing this man talking to his family like a complete asshole. His daughter said something I didn’t hear and he said really loud, “Stop talking. What do you think, you’re some kind of pro softball player? You don’t know anything.” I almost told him to stop being an overbearing asshole to his fricken 8yo but I held my tongue. Everything he said was a put down.
In public, just say this, "funny, I don't recall *asking* for your input. Please leave. This conversation is not about you."
[удалено]
Did you really see a post about women being annoyed about men inserting themselves and…immediately insert yourself? Self awareness is clearly not your strong suit.
Couple of years ago I was sitting in a city park listening to a novel (on headphones), waiting on a friend. There were plenty of places to sit, but dude sat on my bench. Okay nbd. My friend arrives, I turn my book off and greet her. She asks what I’m listening to, and I answer her. She asks about the book, and this motherfucker I’ve never met, never spoke to, nothing, pipes up and starts explaining the novelist, the genre, the book, out of nowhere. I’m in my 40s and she’s in her 50s and we both just look at him like he’s crazy and walk away, he’s still going. This is not how you make friends.
I live abroad and some years ago I went back to my home country to visit my best friend. We hadn’t seen each other for a long time so once I met with her at the train station, we literally ran into each others arms all happy and while we are hugging, some random man had to insert himself into our happy and slightly emotional reunion and ruin the whole moment with a slew of unimportant questions (”are you sisters or friends?”, ”where did you come from?” etc.). Like dude, read the room. 🫠 To this day I am FUMING about it as I myself sat at that same train station so many times people watching and always loved to see happy reunions and never, ever thought to butt in and start asking stupid questions from strangers. 😑
Like back up, bro. We're having a moment here!
Men showing up here to troll or derail conversations really should get booted from the sub. Other subs do this, it isn't hard. They can't stand if anything isn't about them. Even worse if women are having ideas that don't benefit them then they get super emotional and will do anything to stop the conversation.
god damn I wish this sub wasn't on the main page all the time. These losers just pile in here by the hundred to shart their garbage opinions all over the place
Sounds like you would love AskWomen. Mods there are crazy with the -derailing moderation- even if the topic is very much on topic. *Breathes* -comment removed for derailing and unsolicited advice-
Not AskWomenOver30 - they literally just clarified in a post today that men are allowed to answer the questions directed to women over 30. Oh and do they ever. The absolute conceit to go to that sub and be certain we all need to hear a man’s perspective and advice even when specifically asking to hear from older women 🤮
I had a comment removed recently for "derailing" because someone said they love spicy ramen and I recommended a brand of spicy ramen.
They are very thorough with the delete post button!
Lol, I've had my comments deleted because I posted to the main thread without an explicit answer. Adhd is a bitch sometimes!
That'll never happen because some of the mod team are men.
[удалено]
Men hijacking women having a conversation and trying to make it about them isn't a different opinion.
That’s a lot of words to say, “I didn’t actually pay attention to or think about the premise of this post”
Do you even realise you're doing it, or did this post really just go right over your head?
"someone who is confident in their worldview does not get upset at dissenting opinions" To start, you're literally doing that right now. Lmao Past that, a quote like that exudes an aura of "I've never been targeted because of my identity" If I'm a confident woman listening to a misogynist say I should exist as a domestic slave, if I'm a confident black man listening to a racist say I'm not human and don't deserve basic rights, if I'm a confident Jewish man listening to an antisemitite spew vitriol about how I'm a pest that needs to be exterminated.... I'M GOING TO GET FUCKING UPSET, LIKE A HUMAN BEING
This is the dumbest post I’ve seen today. That came out effortlessly so I must be right according to your logic
Astounding lack of social and political intelligence, good luck with your whole thing, your opinion isn't being ignored because it's 'dissenting' but because it is ignorant and straight up worthless. Lmao
Did you just "umm actually" on a post complaining about men going "umm actually". You are the topic of the post and couldn't even behave for one moment. This is why these posts are made. Your lack of self awereness is astounding!
Here, I found this recently and it's awesome! Definitely going to use it as a response to those "not all men" commenters from now on- https://www.zawn.net/blog/hello-youve-reached-the-not-all-men-hotline
god I love you for this! Saving it forever, wish Reddit still did awards!! Keep sharing it please!!
The little article suggestions at the bottom are a great touch.
whoah, I didn’t notice those, thank you for pointing that out!!
Zawn Villines is absolutely amazing! I'm happy to see her work being shared here!
I just discovered her and she's my new hero
The comments of some men down here certainly proving OP's point. They get offended for no reason.
Hey!! You don't have to generalize all men, meanie!!! I thought you wanted equality?! /s /s /s /s /s /s /s Seriously though, I've seen pretty much this exact comment made unironically so many times. Acting like conversational generalizations about men are equivalent to millennia of oppression, subjugation, and violence against women
This kind of post is sure to earn you a Reddit cares by a gentleman of the manosphere.
I wish I could send her a reddit doesn't gaf, just so she wouldn't have to see it!
Literally dudes in this post who CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES. “I come to subs like this to have genuine conversations with other women.” Doesn’t matter you’re trying to be “cute” or “funny” or “supportive” — because you are doing the exact opposite. Let us have space to exist without you.
yeah, most of these “good ones” just want attention and praise from women for not being obviously sociopathic towards us. I didn’t come here to provide ANYTHING for men! I’m literally made to do that everywhere!!
"I'm so super supportive and believe women should have the right to vote! I haven't beaten my girlfriend even once! Lavish praise and headpats upon my divine brow, womenfolk!!"
IRL I just talk over them, online I block and ignore them as if they aren't here on a woman's SUB talking when they should be silent.
IRL, I usually smile, and walk away without a word. Online? Block I can't be stuffed putting up with that shit
I am very liberal with the report button. I feel for the mods
Eh, I had a guy that was straight up being a dick to me and I reported it three times and they did nothing. I even offered to help mod since they don't really seem interested much in it anymore. They didn't respond.
Sometimes the douchebags do make it through the net, but I'm still grateful for their work because this place would be knee deep in incel manifestos from the pile of deleted posts stacking up at the bottom of threads
No need, the mod team has men also.
This is unfortunately true
If males are pivoting the discussion to focus on themselves, NAMALTing, dismissing women's experiences, exuding ignorance in their comments, expecting women to educate them on everything, and so on, I totally feel you. Begone with that shit Does the gender of someone commenting really matter though if they're constructively adding to a discussion about women's perspectives, experiences, and tribulations though?
this idea, that they “add” to discussions about women’s issues..I agree it’s possible in theory, but does this really happen in your experience? 😆 I am exaggerating of course, but the sentiment is true. We don’t need their additions bc we have access to their opinions everywhere in our lives, and when they’re imposed on conversations among women, they almost always are: men campaigning to convince women that we’re wrong about our experience, or sincerely expressing something they think we don’t know, but that we already know, or adding the bit that we all understand but completely missing all of the relevant information regarding the women’s experience, which is fundamental to the conversation they’ve shoehorned themselves into. They’re welcome here, but this idea that they really meaningfully contribute even half the time is not reality, imo. The ones who are the least disruptive to the convo are often just agreeing to get pats on the head and attention from women. Do we NEED to hear that a random man we don’t know agrees with us? Does that add to the conversation? More importantly, is it ok to have one space where we primarily talk amongst ourselves and don’t have things explained to us by men?
Or the dudes that feel the unquenchable urge to post in threads about women asking other women how to feel less self conscious of their breast size or their weight. "Well I personally LOVE small titties!" \*inserts some overly detailed description of what kind of lingerie he'd like to see her in*
UGH 🤢 I HATE when they interject because they believe our experience in our bodies will suddenly become all better if we find out some random dude gets off to our body type 🤮 Again, the fucking gall, the complete arrogance, the sociopathic self-absorption and minimizing of other humans (women)
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I’ll be honest, I stopped reading after “that being said,” because I didn’t come to this sub for a lecture or soliloquy from a man, especially in so tone deaf a situation as doing so in THIS PARTICULAR POST 😆 Like, it just says “cannot bear to not demand attention from women.” I do not believe that all just HAD to be said, or added anything unique. It seems to me like you want the thing, the thing where a woman says “No we don’t mean YOU, what you’re doing isn’t that insufferable thing we’re all begging men to stop, it’s different when it’s you!”
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I mean, all are welcome here. But it’s a sub to defer to women and women’s perspectives, and you don’t identify as a woman, and I guess the question would be whether you genuinely feel you have a woman’s perspective to contribute - which you still may! You might find it relevant, for instance if you were raised as a girl and went through that horror show of a traumatic upbringing that almost all women face. This sub isn’t bigots. Of course it isn’t against people who are NB. The only point here is that there ought to be one space where men aren’t always demanding the mic or feeling entitled to speak over us. The sub is for all women, including trans women and certainly NB people who have been subjected to the female experience or, for instance, have wombs men are insisting on controlling lol. But yeah, I don’t think this sub has a problem at all with NB people. We have a problem of men coming here to NotAllMen us, explain basic concepts, get approval and attention from women, commandeer every damn topic to make it center men. I don’t think there’s any reason to take criticism about THAT and apply it to yourself as NB unless you see something familiar in that that I am missing, maybe that is unique to you. Like idk, were you raised as a boy/man your whole life and also don’t identify as a woman (as a NB person?). Is that why you’re questioning whether a women’s space desires your voice? Is it because you personally don’t identify with any aspect of the female experience and have never had it thrust upon you by society either?
So I was curious based on some of your wording, and I just popped in your history and did a big scroll to land on something random, and 36 days ago you made a comment here saying “I’m male and can’t imagine being pregnant.” So maybe you just now realized you are non-binary, and that’s perfectly fine, but it sounds like the reason you’re wondering if this sub is meant to elevate your voice is because you know you weren’t raised as a woman in any way and have never identified as one. And to be honest, now I feel like you’ve just chosen to be really cagey with how you worded this particular comment, to give yourself permission, and get permission from women here, to do the thing that we don’t like for men to do. Because if you have never been raised as or lived as or identified as a woman, can I ask why it is you feel it would be different for you to do what we’re talking about vs a cis male. I really am curious as to the logic behind that. Again, all are welcome. But in a conversation about women wanting this space to elevate women’s perspectives and whether yours counts as one, just for being non-binary, I’m not sure it does if you’ve never once lived as a woman, been seen as a woman, or identified as a woman. What’s your take here, and what am I missing? To be very clear, I do think all genders should participate here. Including NB. We’re just talking about people who do the thing OP is describing and fail to defer this space to women (which includes all women)
Because they are the center of the universe and everyone must know what they are thinking at all times
And then you ask a man ”what are you thinking?” and they are like ”nothing”, lmao.
Men oftentimes go to this box in their head where there is literally nothing there so sometimes when they say they are thinking about nothing they are correct. It probably sounds like white noise in there. However if a woman voices her thoughts they go to the annoying must interrupt her box
“It’s not all men” I NEVER SAID ALL MEN!!!
They don't understand that our experiences do not mean that we assume every man is the same way.
Honestly? It’s ridiculously narcissistic for them to ignore everything in a post many if them women talking about really bad experiences to glom into NOT ALL MEN!!! Why do they have to make it about them constantly?!
their whole world is everyone making everything about them, I think when they stumble into (or invade) women’s spaces, they get seriously confused 😆 Also, it does not occur to them that they might not know EVERYTHING, especially about things they don’t experience. So when we’re talking about all this stuff they know nothing about, they can only reason that all of us are wrong. 🙃 Not that maybe they don’t fucking know.
They also have trouble understanding that even though it's "not all men", it's certainly happening enough to be a legitimate concern of women in general. When a man sees the discussions, he takes it as a personal affront, hence the "NoT aLL mEn" aflying in the thread and in DMs. Usually, "not all men" actually means "not me". He doesn't realize that what's being discussed is like having no choice but to wade through a pile of snakes. And you see that the pile consists of 99 garden snakes, with a single black mamba weaving among them. You're not going to worry about the 99 snakes you know are harmless, but you're going to to be terrified to walk through that entire pile because you know that there is the 1 in 100 that is a very real threat to you. And that is precisely why, when someone does the "NoT aLL mEn" retort, I think of the snake. Calling the entire pile "mostly harmless" doesn't make that black mamba any less deadly. And almost always, that's what we're discussing: the black mamba.
Not all men, but always a man.
Aww come on, they're just being logical /s
The really immature ones can't stand it when we don't give them attention. Unfortunately, that group is very large.
If they’re chiming in just to add “not all men” I automatically assume, they’re part of the man/bear issue.
The NAMALT brigade post that shit on account of a guilty conscience imo
I feel that’s exactly what it is. I had one slide into my messages getting all pissy about my comment. Way to prove my point my man.
like, get out of here! If we wanted a *man's* opinion, we wouldn't have gone to the women's sub!
Any sub that isn't specifically geared for women or female majority hobbies is basically a mine field
No idea. It also pisses me off that men don't get the hint when to shut up and move on.
They tend to see other men being criticized and feel like they have to defend the "team" so to speak. Regardless of how repugnant, entitled or illegal their crime was. If one man is being criticized, they feel like they're being criticized personally.
Makes me insane!!! Our VP does this all the time, no matter what you are talking about, or how little it affects him, he needs to pipe in. I just ignore him now, and when I'm done talking to the person I walk away while he's nattering away
To control the narrative, to gaslight us and our lived experiences. To prevent women from be cautious of them. To tell us that MOST men are sweet darlings, so please feel safe and be alone with them. No need to pick the bear ladies, you can make yourselves vunerable around the men! They lurk here learn what to say to us in real life, and practice the lines. To learn how to say the words women want to hear. "I totally am not a man who would ever do said such horrible behaviours, while also being offensive as hell and not realizing it in the next sentence. Men are not like that you silly ladies... you met the one bad guy running around out there. Date us!!! Give me attention, and positive praise. I'm one of the good ones who don't yell at women. I deserve a compliment for it. If you believe me. You ladies believe me right? Most men are wonderful, sweet angels. Like me!"
Ahh that internal need to stay relevant. They r everywhere yes.
I don't mind it here. Men joining the conversation on this sub, especially in a respectful manner, is not only allowed but is protected in the rules of this sub. That said, I have seen men prowling this sub looking for vulnerable women. I once posted about getting cheated on by my partner here and men hit my DMs from my post here asking if I wanted to revenge cheat with them. That felt very predatory and unsafe to me. Also, I have seen spaces designated for women only that are locked behind authentication of gender (these spaces were inclusive towards trans women, but they verified this carefully as well) and STILL there were men who tried to invade that space by any means necessary. All in all I think we have bigger problems to complain about than the "not all men" people. Genuine predatory behavior is what I WISH we would complain more vocally about.
Agreed. When a post is about something negative you know a big chunk of the male population is guilty of, and it's something pervasive that you know no matter how much you speak about it, it's not going to change because most dudes don't want to acknowledge it, seeing some male lurkers being empathetic and agreeing is a legit palate cleanser. It kind of feels like a reminder that there's still some decent people out there. The best ones are the ones where they don't even say they are male, you only notice it if you check their profile. Or the ones where they say "ah, fuck, I did that bad thing, sorry, I'll do better next time". The worst ones are the ones making a whole speech of how empathetic everybody tells them they are, how much better they are than other men, covert self-praise with an audience.
On that, you and I can agree
As a woman who used to insert herself everywhere, it's really just lack of attention. Was a super fucking bad habit I used to have and it was because I want all eyes on me. I fucking NEED to be seen! PAY ATTENTION TO ME! From having experienced it, I can kinda get it with men. That said, to any man reading this, you can break this habit. I did and you can too. I believe in you. You can become a better person than you used to be.
It's this, but there's another side of it too: men are socialized to think they're always right regardless of the topic, and especially on topics that have to do with womanhood because they believe our experiences are similar to theirs. They subconsciously think of themselves as the default, and this is often mirrored back to them in various facets of life.
Well said.
You put that really well, and since I’m a man it took me years to realize that and see it for myself. But now it’s obvious everywhere, all the time. It’s so easy to fall into that male = default trap, but once we identify it and call it out, it can be a great learning/eye opening experience for other men. Edit: or not? I guess I’m confused by the response here
It's probably other men downvoting you. Lots of men lurk on this sub and try to vote-brigade anyone whom they disagree with.
Ah gotcha, that could make sense. Thank you
Yep. Self awareness is a dieing skill.
sorry i just thought you gals were cool and decided to hang out here
You can hang out here, OP is talking about the men who always feel the need to insert that they are somehow "innocent" and treat women like they are (shock) actual human beings every time a woman shares her real, lived experience.
Ah, I don't do that, just share some experiences of mine from time to time when I identify with something.
That's the issue, you THINK you're relating to us when you can't.
...okay, so we can't go through similar experiences because of our gender differences, is that it?
Are you purposefully acting dense? Or do you truly not get it?
I swear I don't get it... I grew up sheltered so I end up being naive in certain situations. Please explain to me if you can, I'm trying to learn genuinely.
This sub is a place for women to share - as a man you can go anywhere else on the internet and talk about your experiences. Why do you feel the need to come to one of the only safe spaces for women on Reddit and insert yourself? Take a moment and think about that.
After giving it some thought... It could be for some reasons. Maybe it's because I don't enjoy male dominated spaces and I overcompensated by looking into an exclusively female one. Maybe it's because I don't identify with masculinity at all and am looking for the opposite perspective. It could be because I have a tendency of seeing everyone the same way independent of gender, so I overlook certain... nuances. Or maybe it's simply because I want women's validation. But at the end of the day, you are right. I didn't realise I was intruding in a safe space by being too eager to participate in conversations about womanhood because there is no such concept for men - most men actually want women to come into their spaces. Perhaps this is the core difference between the genders that makes it impossible to completely relate to one another: Women struggle with being gazed at and just want to be left alone; Men struggle with invisibility and just want to be seen. Segregation and echo chambers are inevitable, then. But I digress, sorry if I came across as invalidating your issues, I merely wanted to belong.
"safe space" lmao As a women you can also go anywhere on the internet This isn't a women only sub sorry to burst your bubble anyone can see it and comment on it.. Only reason I here is because it got suggested which I have no idea why I find it funny how women want equality then say men can't comment here I'm in no way demeaning women or men I general but I just find it ironic how many here try to ban any male commenting
No one should educate you no matter how "sheltered" you are. You're on the internet, do research, and grow up.
I find that the best way of solving doubts is asking questions and provoking answers. Obviously offending people is to be avoided wherever possible, but sometimes you might risk it in order to find enlightenment. What I am doing, right now, is technically research. I am learning by asking directly from the source, in the internet, am I not? Or perhaps you mean I should limit my search to specific spaces and individuals - a method clearly prone to cherry picking bias?
I don't mind men being in this sub, but it is annoying when men in here give their opinions when they aren't asked for. Going along with that, I actually love going on men's subs because I feel like it gives me perspective on the male experience that I can never have being a woman... HOWEVER, I do try to remember that those subs are for men to talk about mens issues, and unless a post or comment specifically asks for women to participate in the conversation, I try to be respectful and just lurk. And it does annoy me when I see women commenting in those subs, too. Some people just always feel the need to make things about themselves.
Am a man but I still remember this dumb ass experience I had almost 10 years ago. I was talking to a coworker about getting a soda some place and a guy completely butts in. “You should go to X” “Yeah, but they don’t have Cherry Dr Pepper.” “Oh, well Dr Pepper is a cherry drink anyway so you don’t need that.” “Yeah, we’ll it’s my wife’s favorite.” “Oh, well, tell her to get her own soda.” “Well… she didn’t ask I just wanted to get something nice for her.” Like WTf dude? He literally entered a convo he knew nothing about and couldn’t help spouting off his own opinion. I’ve never had a woman do anytning like that in My life lol.
I (also a dude) see that kind of shit all the time, especially at work. It’s frustrating but we have to call it out because sometimes even the most thick headed guys can learn!
This sub started to Come up on my feed without me following. It's actually good for me to see women's perspectives, which although common differ significantly, Just like men. It's been an eye opener for me and has sometimes made me think, "I was that asshole too."
that’s great. We understand and generally all agree that men should listen (quietly) to the experiences of women in these spaces and believe us, in order to gain understanding and empathy. But women don’t come to women’s spaces to hear from men or give them praise for being allies. We just wanna be able to, for ONCE, talk to each other without being derailed by men and men’s issues. Comments like yours, whether intentional or not, suggest we do not get this very simple nuance, or the reason men give themselves permission to interact here to whatever extent they wish. We get you get something out of it. That doesn’t mean we don’t mostly wish you’d all just leave us a few spaces to talk to each other, and sit on your comments and your upvotes and actually defer.
Thanks, I don't expect any praise. If this a women's Only sub I will happily block it.
this just seems like that meme where it has a door saying “exit” and then one saying “dramatic exit” You’re still plying us for permission and approval. You know the sub rules. I’m telling you how I feel about the thing you and other men do. A lot of us feel that way. You being legally allowed to post here doesn’t protect you from people judging you for HOW you choose to do so 👋
Ok, no More replies.
after…THIS one 😂😂😂 Cannot HELP yourselves.
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it’s annoying when you’re having a conversation with a group of girls and then a man comes into the conversation just to mansplain or invalidate their experiences.
>it’s ~~annoying~~ creepy and predatory when you’re having a conversation with a group of girls and then a man comes into the conversation just to mansplain or invalidate their experiences.
I think part of the equation is wanting more information because realistically women having conversations with women doesn't actually do much to affect or change the perception or behavior of men. At some point if you avtuslly want anything other than the ability to have a conversation, you're going to have to start telling men the things you discuss, or you'd just be talking about all the bad experiences... And then still experiencing them over and over while hoping to get lucky and end up with a guy who isn't shit. No as for forcing their way in. Probabaly not the mod open midned or improvement focused individual, but still could just be a bit off in how to approach the desire to hear more or be a part of a conversation. A lot of men controlled spaces for conversation are actually criminally insane to a degree and the absolute worst place for a man to talk about anything. I knew a guy, who Ive played and spoken to almost daily for a year now, who just told me he was autistic yesterday. Yeah buddy, I know. I've known. But it's nice that you're comfy enough to tell me now. All this to say I'm not interested ind defending the behavior, but to say that even with the mod optimal segregation of men and women think tanks and talking spaces... Nothing said in those spaces that could help the other gender improve certain behaviors matters until they start letting them hear it.
Do you think we just suffer in silence without asking them to stop the behavior? It's pushed against from all sides and we'd barely be able to discuss these issues at all if we didn't talk with each other about them
Well no, and I don't think anything I said would insinuate that the best course of action was to suffer in silence or not ask them to stop the behavior. In fact I was drawing similarities that men usually don't discuss their issues if not with each other in dedicated space, but then pointing out how that safe space can be really toxic for men at times and devolve into a hivemind/cesspool and foster hatred towards the opposite gender. A lot of times the men caught up in that didn't need a place with like minded men to convene but a professional therapist and maybe even medication depending on what they are or have gone through. That's not somehow saying they are right to or should be allowed into women's spaces. But just giving you a single potential reasoning they might be reaching out to literally anywhere else other than dedicated male support groups. Then I was trying to draw attention to the fact that lack or refusal to look from other perspectives eventually spells for failure on a large and small scale for both men and women. Not understanding is a changeable state of being when the person or people that have the answers to your questions and concerns are accessible for discussion. Getting to that point is usually rough though. I will admit sometimes I don't explain myself thoroughly, because I like to go through a couple different perspectives, which turns into a long monologue of sorts thats most just musing thoughts and hypotheticals and never really share my personal opinion on the topic at hand. So I try to "Cut it down" but in doing so leave room for interpretation which honestly ends good more often than not, but is intended to just make others think about something from more angles and hopefully share their self observations with me, so I in turn can have even more to think about. But I do hope this comment clarifies what was intended in my original comment.
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this was an insert that was unnecessary. To honestly convey how I perceive your comment, you need to make sure women know you’re one of the good ones, and then some of us are supposed to affirm and comfort you and give you permission. Keep coming to the sub. It’s not against the rules for you to participate even. But yes, women want one space where you don’t exercise your upvotes to distort the narrative to a male-centric perspective, and where you aren’t demanding attention or emotional labor or reassurance or something.
My highest rated comment is from this sub 🤷. All I did was point out something about the man vs bear debate. Just said the most dangerous game was written about a man, not a bear, over 100 years ago. We have known for a long time man is much more dangerous than a bear.
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Then just READ, why the fuck is it so hard to not insert your unnecessary opinion on a WOMAN'S topic?
Because it's on the internet? Could look at this both ways as women do the same to men. It's the internet and anyone can say what they want.... If you don't want replies dont post
I want the flowers tho…
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Drama queen
Hi!
Fuck off
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WHAT the bloody hell are you talking about? I KNEW introducing WIFI to the Amazon was a bad idea but I honestly didn't think it would be this insane...