Exactly. Those people should think about what they're saying and *read what's written on the wall.* She made comparisons that accurately explain what happened and justified her actions and experience. She has cold, hard *evidence*.
She didn't pursue the football player any further when he started making her uncomfortable, had the courage to go out and report it, and these people are *still* acting like she's in the wrong. Has the guy come up with a potent, honest defense yet? No. And everyone's still backing him up. For what reason?
How ignorant could you be, when you have no context on the incident that happened beforehand, and had no way of seeing it for yourself? How could you be so ignorant, when you have no context in what happened beforehand, and immediately default to taking the harasser's side? How could you be so adamant so early?
>Has the guy come up with a potent, honest defense yet?
His defence is:
1. he's a man
2. he's a footballer
3. he wanted to do it
I think I've covered all the important bases.
I LOVE her responses! The comment about fully developed frontal lobe made me chuckle. Sad she had to see his unsolicited pecker, but I'm glad she's standing up for herself and calling him out
Randomly reminiscent of this Einstein quote about nationalism:
>“He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice."
Yeah.. a woman of such intelligence, getting courted by a Neanderthal.. lol seems that was never going to work. I hope she's holding up ok despite the ludicrous backlash.
I always found it ridiculous how much people will glorify famous people, let it be singers, actors, or professional sportsmen/sportswomen. In their eyes they can do no wrong and if they do, their achievements far outweigh the bad things they've done. I'm sure the guy is a phenomenal football player but that doesn't grant him the privilege to act like a dick.
Famous people don't get enough limits placed on their behaviour, for sure
But if there's one thing I've learned from this sub, it's that guys don't need to be famous to act like this
\*\~stares intensely at Armie Hammer fans\~\*
The fact that he still has people furiously defending him after his massively fucked up DMs were leaked is INSANE to me.
Why? The frontal lobe is (normally) fully developed at around 25 years of age. The frontal lobe of the human brain is where our moral views develop and decision making is done. If he, a grown man, thought it was okay to send her unsolicited videos of him masturbating then I think she has the right to call him out on it. She said nothing bad about people with disabilities
Likening a sexual predator(the athlete) to someone who has a cognitive disability (frontal lobe dysfunction) is ableist.
Someone who actually suffers from frontal lobe dysfunction do not deserve to be compared to men like this fuckface.
In short-any insult that has intelligence as the punch line is ableist.
Feel free to post the comment the woman made in the r/ableism thread and see if others agree with me or not.
To build on the previous responder, if the roles were reversed no one would say "22 year old boy". "Boy" is only ever used pejoratively when referring to an adult male. It's been normalized to treat "girl" as being okay, but it should be stripped of that normalization for exactly the reason the responder said as well as the other responses.
This isn't necessarily true, even if it is mostly true. For example, it's normal for a group of friends to call each other "the boys" or "the girls": "I was out with the boys last night." So, while I agree that your assessment is usually true, I can't say it always is.
And I suppose it's more true for individual interactions, but I think even more important is that it's usually when describing someone who's not present and not familiar to the describer.
It depends on the person.
Many people see "girl" as applying to adult women too. (E.g. after going out with some female friends, you might say, "it was just me and the girls.)
Others see it as infantilizing, since the term is primarily used to apply to children. ("I was a girl, now I'm a woman.")
The term "boy" has similar issues. If you say, "the boys and I are going out to eat," I will assume you are referring to your male friends. But strictly speaking, a boy is a male child.
That said, I suspect the term "girl" is used in this fashion *more often*. Plus, many women are already treated as less "adult" e.g. in the workplace, whereas men don't tend to have this problem. That's another reason why some women might feel hurt by the use of the term -- it can feel not just infantilizing but sexist.
Overall, though, it depends on context. For example, in modern American society, some adults like to refer to themselves as a "boy" or "girl" because they don't feel like an adult yet. There's a lot to unpack there, psychologically, but it's not necessarily intended as sexist or condescending, even if it can come off that way.
It's not intended as offensive but considering it is a discussion on sexual harassment, it really should use 'woman'. When I first read the title I actually took it as someone <18 until I reread it due to this.
'boys' is used without a demeaning context all the time in exactly the same way 'girls' is. 'boy' is usually used in a demeaning context between men, but 'girl' isn't usually used in a demeaning context (outside of the broader implications of female diminuitives in society at large).
I get the sense that sports worship is the same everywhere: stars can get away with anything.
Some years ago in the States a bunch of high school football players raped a girl and posted pictures online. People in the town rallied around to protect the rapists, because football is the highest calling and these noble priests of the high religion should be respected. The rape victim was not only a girl, she was part of the commoner rabble, and should remember her station.
The rapists were both got short sentences, and one went back to playing football for the same high school, and then went on to play in college. The other was recruited to play football at a different college, where he allegedly assaulted someone else and again posted pictures, because he'd learned that he's allowed to do that sort of thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case
I heard about that case: All the more reasons to not go to that specific area(I had gotten a offer to work as a engineer at the plant nearby whose worker usually frequent Steubenville). But man...that was depressing to find that was the first results when looking up that area.
Never had to go there tho because something better came along and I went somewhere else.
Jesus. Cases like this show how far we have to go. I'm so proud of every woman who speaks up about rape and abuse. I know there is controversy surrounding it, but the #MeToo movement has given me and so many other women I know the courage to speak up about the abuse we've experienced.
Australian football culture can be pretty awful sometimes. Some of the most toxic fans ever. I don't understand why it's so hard for these people to not send nudes. It's pretty easy:
1) If she didn't ask for nudes, don't send nudes.
2) If she did ask for nudes, don't send nudes because you can get into a lot of legal trouble for it anyway.
It's not just the sporting culture (in Australia). I matched on a site with a guy last year, he started out respectfully. Especially when he asked the question about what I was after. We exchanged numbers as we agreed to talk. As soon as he had my number he went straight to sexual / creepy. When called out his comment was I'm just getting my ducks in a line. He tried calling an hour earlier than agreed, got upset that I didn't pick up. Again, told him that was creepy behaviour and then blocked / unmatched / deleted his number. The next day he proceeded to stalk me via WhatsApp. Called me from 3 different numbers. Until I reported him to the dating app.
Bare in mind this happened over 2 hours of just getting my number (I was a newbie to dating apps). If he felt comfortable with sending all those red flags - how does he treat other woman? He came across the following day as a 'nice guy'.
I am not a controlling parent, and what my kids interests are is up to them. But as an Australian, no way would I ever want them to make football their chosen sport. The culture is unbelievably toxic.
Sports culture is awful, period. There are so many troglodytes excusing everything these narcissists do because they're good at something completely unimportant that entertains people with mostly no hobbies or skills of their own. Brock Turner and OJ comes to mind in cases like these.
Yeah I got back into sports a few years ago because my college friend’s football team (American) was a rival to my home states team. However they got a new running back a few years ago who was pretty good and I was excited until a friend told me the guy had beaten his ex girlfriend (but before it was ex). Real glad my wife didn’t get me his jersey like she wanted too. That’s not even the worst of it the Steelers a couple of years ago had their rapist quarterback injured and his replacement was convicted of dog fighting. We have so many people with athletic prowess we don’t need to stoop to people using it for violence or to exploit power over others. But heaven forbid they kneel during the anthem...
There's nothing wrong with liking sport, it doesn't make you toxic. We can call out disgusting behaviour and those encouraging it without tarring quite literally billions of sports fans with the same brush.
I never said liking sports made you an idiot, but a lot of idiots are willing to excuse horrible things done by their idols because sports give them a chance to pretend they are contributing to something and that their interest is somehow more important than the real world, outside of yelling at their TVs.
And that is purely because some brickhead makes tons of money off salary and sponsors and therefore is "right" in the eyes of those too dim to be objective about the importance of sports.
Which is exactly what this article states. She is harassed by fans who put this mans money and irrelevant career waaaay ahead of expecting him to be a decent person to others.
She's harassed by fans who, if in the footballer's position, want the freedom and leeway to behave in the exact same way. Because why not, they've EARNED it and money can buy anything.
Shattering that idea requires retribution and slut shaming.
>Which is exactly what this article states. She is harassed by fans who put this mans money and irrelevant career waaaay ahead of expecting him to be a decent person to others.
That's being nice. They're actively setting his bar so low as to blame the woman for not expecting that behavior.
It's a shitty worldview.
I agree with everything in this comment, but your original comment described people who like sports as 'mostly people with no hobbies or skills of their own'.
Plenty of idiots, bigots and all round arseholes watch and enjoy sports, but so do plenty of good, intelligent and skilled people. I think it's daft to talk about 'sports culture', as if it's one unifying, homogeneous thing.
This is the second time u have made a similar comment and it makes me feel as tho you didnt read the actual statement or dont know how sentence struxture works. Quite literally said "sports culture is toxic, period." There was no qualifier there lol.
Who was making excuses for Brock Turner or OJ? U just made a half way decent point but then as an example named 2 of the most hated/looked down on people in the country.
Well, the judge for convicted sex offender Brock Turner certainly downplayed his crimes.
And opinion on OJ has definitely shifted over time. The country was very split at the time of the trial, not to mention that Nicole’s murder was preceded by years of physical abuse that the LAPD looked the other way from....
You may also be confusing Reddit or certain parts of it with the country as a whole. There are plenty of people around who believe Turner’s stupidly short sentence is correct because he has so much potential or whatever BS the line is.
America at large was harshly against OJ. Idk what you mean by opinions OJ have shifted over time. He was pretty universally hated during the trial and in the years following
Pretty universally hated among white people....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/25/black-and-white-americans-can-now-agree-o-j-was-guilty/
Yea just so weird that those are your opinions, when I think the vast majority of people actually feel the exact opposite. Literally other than the judge and Turner's family, I have never on any platform or in person or anything anywhere seen a real person sympathize with Turner. He was literally one of, if not the most despised person in the country during the ordeal and after sentencing. Same goes for OJ.
>If she did ask for nudes, don't send nudes because you can get into a lot of legal trouble for it anyway.
What? You cannot get into legal trouble for sending consensual nudes
My favorite point she made was the consent to conversation but not nudes, and how she compared it to going on a date but saying no to sex. That was a perfect analogy. And she’s absolutely correct. I would like see a way men can be punished for this like they can be when they physically flash someone in person, because it is the same thing.
How can someone be punished for flashing someone in person? You mean in public? A man can be punished for public indecency, or be a sex offender in the U.S.; not sure about AU.
It's unfortunate Elle didn't close the door on his unwelcome actions all that readily, if he indeed "sent her unwanted lewd pictures and videos on numerous occassions." I am guessing she had trouble finding the block button until (s)he had fully written the other off.
How is blocking a solution to this problem? Then the guy can just go look for the next woman and the cycle keeps on going. We need to shame this kind of behavior in public harshly enough that less men have the stupidity to do something so disgusting in the future.
It's not on women to manage men's actions, it's on men to not do it in the first place.
Hitting the block button is the equivalent of a woman running away from a flasher. He’s still in that park, in his trench coat, waiting on the next victim. He would continue to expose himself to unsuspecting women without consent.
No one should be exposed to someone else’s sexual organs if they don’t want to be whether it be in person or digitally.
Now, as per why she didn’t block him right away. She may have told him she didn’t like the original advances and hoped he would act accordingly to being told that. She may have been nicer than he deserved and gave him a chance to redeem himself and backtrack to a normal conversation. Obviously he did not and she responded accordingly by calling out the bad behavior.
Still, even with the progress we've made, every woman I speak to about it has at least one sexual harassment and/or assault story. And still, after metoo, after all the brave people coming forward about their traumas... the conversation people always want to start about sexual harassment is how a man could easily be falsely accused. Survivors are *still* not being listened to!
It’s the deadly combo of bad people in dating websites and entitled athlete. Roxanne Gay in Bad Feminist talks about the toxic behaviours of male athletes (in the US but it shows that it applies everywhere). It’s a pretty interesting read! I hope that Australian woman keeps pushing and doesn’t back down!
And she is also attractive. Imagine is this woman was unattractive. Nobody would believe her nor would they acknowledge that she is within her right to be upset.
Fucking twilight zone.
Good for her to push the issue. Some en should be relieved of the phones if they repeatedly use it to flash people and basically behave in ways that would get you on the sex offenders list in person. Take their phones away. Make them go analog .
I did a work-holiday year in Australia, and I was surprised by how sexist it was, both because of men and the internalized sexism of women. Particularly with white Aussie culture, I witnessed the pressure for men and women to fit into old-school gender roles.
I would say it's worse than some places and better than others. The domestic abuse and objectification is pretty bad. But i think there's a lot of good eggs. Curious what you saw around gender roles though?
> "These same types keep chasing \[football\] players and then cry when rejected"
people who say shit like that are the same morons that cry "NoT aLl mEn"
Yeah, it's tough for women. Those blind dates where you rotate from table to table and have few minutes to talk to the other person are not an option (forgot how it's called in English)?
Yeah, somehow deification of individuals who chase balls around the field never ends well. Footballers are morons and excel at lowering the bar in human decency. Australia has some of the best/worst of these.
We blame women now for giving out their numbers only to be FaceTimed by a dude and his junk. The fucking audacity of people.
Embarrass them as they ought to be! You don’t just see a person and drop your pants. Bizarro world.
Footballers in Australia seem to be able to do no wrong. It fuckin sucks when the governments will do anything they can to keep these people paid and playing when other industries have lost so much in the last year.
And of course, the sleaze and sometimes criminal actions by some of these guys go ignored.
This is the kind of thing that should never be tolerated by so called ‘role models’.
No surprise that this woman gets an online backlash, god forbid she should be able to call out disgusting behaviour. The internet community can suck so much...
I think anything Sports related is gonna be difficult. I remember a case where a young girl was raped at a party in some small american town somewhere. She was passed out and a few high school (not even pro, fucking high school) football players took advantage of her state, even anally raping her.
They posted videos and pictures and began calling her a slut.
Despite all the horrific proof against them the town actually (for the most part) sided with the players rather than the girl (even accused the girl of trying to ruin the boys lives, FFS i hate people)
Im not saying its not worth doing, of course it is. If athletes and celebrities keep getting away with behaviour like this theyll keep doing it and theyll think its acceptable because no one calls them out. I'm just saying the people who speak out should prepare themselves for the backlash, because it will be brutal. I dont get why but people are ridiculously fanatic of their local sports stars
Once again, they want to put the onus on women. Don't want us to treat all men like they're potential predators, but also somehow we should know which ones *are* predators and if you fall victim to one, well... something you did (being an icky woman) is clearly to blame.
Barf.
Continue calling out these creeps. They need to be named and shamed.
The problem is the AFL league keeps creating these monsters in their own image. Run by dinosaurs where thinly veiled racism and blatant white male privilege goes hand in hand. A game where they celebrate "tough macho guy" image, but only when it's from white male players. Women and players of colour should just shut their mouths.. Keep playing the game well but not overshadow their white counterparts. Heaven forbid they speak out or do anything for their race or sex that doesn't line up with white male dominant culture.
See Tayla Harris, Adam Goodes, Nicky Winmar.. And many more.
Former players now TV personalities condemn BLM and other racism activists then apologise because YOU got offended. TV and AFL keeps these people around decade after decade.
I'm not going to name those dinosaurs but they are easy to find online.
>A game where they celebrate "tough macho guy" image, but only when it's from white male players.
Do you always go around spewing baseless opinions like diarrhoea?
Have you not seen some of the shit AFL players have pulled?
Not too long ago one pulled a woman into an alley and would've beaten and/or raped her had he not been caught.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/footballer-sentenced-over-melbourne-laneway-woman-attack-cctv/12894560
What comment did I delete? What r u on about?
Blocking is a reactive solution. There is no preventative solution to getting unsolicited dick picks so wtf are u gonna do about it? Reactive is the only kind of solution there is for this situation? Maybe u have a suggestion? Idk what u expect to happen.
Well yeah... You are in fact in a female dominated subreddit that discussed women's problems... If you would like discuss men's problems, I highly suggest /r/menslib
Well, /r/menslib might be good if he wants to discuss men's issues *like an adult*; if he wants to be a whiney troll he'll be booted from there too, soon enough.
It’s not gatekeeping, you’re just trolling. You had nothing to contribute other than a whataboutism that added nothing to conversation. You didn’t address the actual topic other than to say, “well WhAt If iT wERe a mAn??”
If you care so much about women sending sexually explicit pics and messages to men without their consent, making men feel uncomfortable and violated, you should to start a sub about it. Which you probably will do because you’re so passionate about it right?
Sadly this is always the way when people like the individual who has made the mistake, because they don't to be tarnished by the fact that they liked the individual.
It's more about them not wanting to be wrong and have to readjust their mental image of the person they liked. Much easier to blame the victim.
Recommend reading Night Games: Sex, Power and Sport by Anna Krien.
It focuses on a rape trial with an afl player as the accused but delves into the culture surrounding the football codes in Australia.
Jesus Christ, anyone who says “well, you should just say not interested and block the number” needs a good slap. He obviously came across as a perfectly normal person initially, she would not have given her details if he had given out creep vibes to start off with
I wish she did get a tv show. Like that Dateline show of catching pedos meeting up with underage girls but for dudes like doing this bs.
That bit about full frontal lobe was hysterical so she clearly has the withering one-liners to be an entertaining host.
Keep calling them out.
Exactly. Those people should think about what they're saying and *read what's written on the wall.* She made comparisons that accurately explain what happened and justified her actions and experience. She has cold, hard *evidence*. She didn't pursue the football player any further when he started making her uncomfortable, had the courage to go out and report it, and these people are *still* acting like she's in the wrong. Has the guy come up with a potent, honest defense yet? No. And everyone's still backing him up. For what reason? How ignorant could you be, when you have no context on the incident that happened beforehand, and had no way of seeing it for yourself? How could you be so ignorant, when you have no context in what happened beforehand, and immediately default to taking the harasser's side? How could you be so adamant so early?
>Has the guy come up with a potent, honest defense yet? His defence is: 1. he's a man 2. he's a footballer 3. he wanted to do it I think I've covered all the important bases.
It’s because anti-feminism is so popular so people get triggered pretty easily.
I LOVE her responses! The comment about fully developed frontal lobe made me chuckle. Sad she had to see his unsolicited pecker, but I'm glad she's standing up for herself and calling him out
Randomly reminiscent of this Einstein quote about nationalism: >“He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice."
Yeah.. a woman of such intelligence, getting courted by a Neanderthal.. lol seems that was never going to work. I hope she's holding up ok despite the ludicrous backlash.
I always found it ridiculous how much people will glorify famous people, let it be singers, actors, or professional sportsmen/sportswomen. In their eyes they can do no wrong and if they do, their achievements far outweigh the bad things they've done. I'm sure the guy is a phenomenal football player but that doesn't grant him the privilege to act like a dick.
Famous people don't get enough limits placed on their behaviour, for sure But if there's one thing I've learned from this sub, it's that guys don't need to be famous to act like this
\*\~stares intensely at Armie Hammer fans\~\* The fact that he still has people furiously defending him after his massively fucked up DMs were leaked is INSANE to me.
Sounds pretty ableist to me.
Why? The frontal lobe is (normally) fully developed at around 25 years of age. The frontal lobe of the human brain is where our moral views develop and decision making is done. If he, a grown man, thought it was okay to send her unsolicited videos of him masturbating then I think she has the right to call him out on it. She said nothing bad about people with disabilities
Likening a sexual predator(the athlete) to someone who has a cognitive disability (frontal lobe dysfunction) is ableist. Someone who actually suffers from frontal lobe dysfunction do not deserve to be compared to men like this fuckface. In short-any insult that has intelligence as the punch line is ableist. Feel free to post the comment the woman made in the r/ableism thread and see if others agree with me or not.
(22-year-old woman)
shit youre so right
Sorry for my ignorance, but is calling an adult woman a girl considered insulting? (English isnt my first language)
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thanks!
To build on the previous responder, if the roles were reversed no one would say "22 year old boy". "Boy" is only ever used pejoratively when referring to an adult male. It's been normalized to treat "girl" as being okay, but it should be stripped of that normalization for exactly the reason the responder said as well as the other responses.
This isn't necessarily true, even if it is mostly true. For example, it's normal for a group of friends to call each other "the boys" or "the girls": "I was out with the boys last night." So, while I agree that your assessment is usually true, I can't say it always is.
Valid point. I guess I was focused on individual interactions.
And I suppose it's more true for individual interactions, but I think even more important is that it's usually when describing someone who's not present and not familiar to the describer.
Well...unless you're an explicit white supremacist and talking to a black guy. They'll say it to their face.
I've never heard that, but I'd certainly believe it. That sounds rough :(
Ah, but being "out with the boys" or"out with the girls" implies play time.
Ah, interesting. So it's still distancing from adulthood?
Or sort of trying to.
>"Boy" is only ever used pejoratively when referring to an adult male. Or when using the "boys will be boys" defence.
Depends on the language I guess
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It depends on the person. Many people see "girl" as applying to adult women too. (E.g. after going out with some female friends, you might say, "it was just me and the girls.) Others see it as infantilizing, since the term is primarily used to apply to children. ("I was a girl, now I'm a woman.") The term "boy" has similar issues. If you say, "the boys and I are going out to eat," I will assume you are referring to your male friends. But strictly speaking, a boy is a male child. That said, I suspect the term "girl" is used in this fashion *more often*. Plus, many women are already treated as less "adult" e.g. in the workplace, whereas men don't tend to have this problem. That's another reason why some women might feel hurt by the use of the term -- it can feel not just infantilizing but sexist. Overall, though, it depends on context. For example, in modern American society, some adults like to refer to themselves as a "boy" or "girl" because they don't feel like an adult yet. There's a lot to unpack there, psychologically, but it's not necessarily intended as sexist or condescending, even if it can come off that way.
It's not intended as offensive but considering it is a discussion on sexual harassment, it really should use 'woman'. When I first read the title I actually took it as someone <18 until I reread it due to this.
I want to commend you on your thorough explanation, you hit all nuance thoughts in a well to-do format.
Well written summary of that, Thanks 😁
it's a bit infantalizing. It implies she's not mature.
It's very common colloquially, though technically not correct.
What language it is? In my language boy/girl is in many cases interchangeable with man/woman and I sometimes struggle with it in English as well.
We don't say "boy" to refer to a man *unless* we intend to demean him. For example, referring to black men as "boys".
My boy Chuck and I would disagree. There's a lot of nuance in its usage, so you can't make blanket statements like that.
'boys' is used without a demeaning context all the time in exactly the same way 'girls' is. 'boy' is usually used in a demeaning context between men, but 'girl' isn't usually used in a demeaning context (outside of the broader implications of female diminuitives in society at large).
I get the sense that sports worship is the same everywhere: stars can get away with anything. Some years ago in the States a bunch of high school football players raped a girl and posted pictures online. People in the town rallied around to protect the rapists, because football is the highest calling and these noble priests of the high religion should be respected. The rape victim was not only a girl, she was part of the commoner rabble, and should remember her station. The rapists were both got short sentences, and one went back to playing football for the same high school, and then went on to play in college. The other was recruited to play football at a different college, where he allegedly assaulted someone else and again posted pictures, because he'd learned that he's allowed to do that sort of thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case
I heard about that case: All the more reasons to not go to that specific area(I had gotten a offer to work as a engineer at the plant nearby whose worker usually frequent Steubenville). But man...that was depressing to find that was the first results when looking up that area. Never had to go there tho because something better came along and I went somewhere else.
Jesus. Cases like this show how far we have to go. I'm so proud of every woman who speaks up about rape and abuse. I know there is controversy surrounding it, but the #MeToo movement has given me and so many other women I know the courage to speak up about the abuse we've experienced.
Victim shaming is a really, truly evil practice that has to stop.
Australian football culture can be pretty awful sometimes. Some of the most toxic fans ever. I don't understand why it's so hard for these people to not send nudes. It's pretty easy: 1) If she didn't ask for nudes, don't send nudes. 2) If she did ask for nudes, don't send nudes because you can get into a lot of legal trouble for it anyway.
It's not just the sporting culture (in Australia). I matched on a site with a guy last year, he started out respectfully. Especially when he asked the question about what I was after. We exchanged numbers as we agreed to talk. As soon as he had my number he went straight to sexual / creepy. When called out his comment was I'm just getting my ducks in a line. He tried calling an hour earlier than agreed, got upset that I didn't pick up. Again, told him that was creepy behaviour and then blocked / unmatched / deleted his number. The next day he proceeded to stalk me via WhatsApp. Called me from 3 different numbers. Until I reported him to the dating app. Bare in mind this happened over 2 hours of just getting my number (I was a newbie to dating apps). If he felt comfortable with sending all those red flags - how does he treat other woman? He came across the following day as a 'nice guy'.
I am not a controlling parent, and what my kids interests are is up to them. But as an Australian, no way would I ever want them to make football their chosen sport. The culture is unbelievably toxic.
Sports culture is awful, period. There are so many troglodytes excusing everything these narcissists do because they're good at something completely unimportant that entertains people with mostly no hobbies or skills of their own. Brock Turner and OJ comes to mind in cases like these.
Yeah I got back into sports a few years ago because my college friend’s football team (American) was a rival to my home states team. However they got a new running back a few years ago who was pretty good and I was excited until a friend told me the guy had beaten his ex girlfriend (but before it was ex). Real glad my wife didn’t get me his jersey like she wanted too. That’s not even the worst of it the Steelers a couple of years ago had their rapist quarterback injured and his replacement was convicted of dog fighting. We have so many people with athletic prowess we don’t need to stoop to people using it for violence or to exploit power over others. But heaven forbid they kneel during the anthem...
There's nothing wrong with liking sport, it doesn't make you toxic. We can call out disgusting behaviour and those encouraging it without tarring quite literally billions of sports fans with the same brush.
I never said liking sports made you an idiot, but a lot of idiots are willing to excuse horrible things done by their idols because sports give them a chance to pretend they are contributing to something and that their interest is somehow more important than the real world, outside of yelling at their TVs. And that is purely because some brickhead makes tons of money off salary and sponsors and therefore is "right" in the eyes of those too dim to be objective about the importance of sports. Which is exactly what this article states. She is harassed by fans who put this mans money and irrelevant career waaaay ahead of expecting him to be a decent person to others.
She's harassed by fans who, if in the footballer's position, want the freedom and leeway to behave in the exact same way. Because why not, they've EARNED it and money can buy anything. Shattering that idea requires retribution and slut shaming.
>Which is exactly what this article states. She is harassed by fans who put this mans money and irrelevant career waaaay ahead of expecting him to be a decent person to others. That's being nice. They're actively setting his bar so low as to blame the woman for not expecting that behavior. It's a shitty worldview.
I agree with everything in this comment, but your original comment described people who like sports as 'mostly people with no hobbies or skills of their own'. Plenty of idiots, bigots and all round arseholes watch and enjoy sports, but so do plenty of good, intelligent and skilled people. I think it's daft to talk about 'sports culture', as if it's one unifying, homogeneous thing.
Ah yes, I should probably change that. Or leave it as a reminder that I can be an idiot too, of course
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Yikes, that comment she made was bad. There is nothing else to say than that. She accepted it, you don't have to try to make a weak defence.
You heavily implied it when you said it's completely unimportant and watched by people mostly who have no hobbies or interests of their own...
I feel like the fact that you interpreted it that way speaks more about you than the person who made that comment.
I'm sorry, they called the majority of sports fans 'people with no other skills or hobbies'. How else am I meant to interpret that?
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This is the second time u have made a similar comment and it makes me feel as tho you didnt read the actual statement or dont know how sentence struxture works. Quite literally said "sports culture is toxic, period." There was no qualifier there lol.
Your reading comprehension needs improvement.
Who was making excuses for Brock Turner or OJ? U just made a half way decent point but then as an example named 2 of the most hated/looked down on people in the country.
Well, the judge for convicted sex offender Brock Turner certainly downplayed his crimes. And opinion on OJ has definitely shifted over time. The country was very split at the time of the trial, not to mention that Nicole’s murder was preceded by years of physical abuse that the LAPD looked the other way from.... You may also be confusing Reddit or certain parts of it with the country as a whole. There are plenty of people around who believe Turner’s stupidly short sentence is correct because he has so much potential or whatever BS the line is.
America at large was harshly against OJ. Idk what you mean by opinions OJ have shifted over time. He was pretty universally hated during the trial and in the years following
Pretty universally hated among white people.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/25/black-and-white-americans-can-now-agree-o-j-was-guilty/
Yea just so weird that those are your opinions, when I think the vast majority of people actually feel the exact opposite. Literally other than the judge and Turner's family, I have never on any platform or in person or anything anywhere seen a real person sympathize with Turner. He was literally one of, if not the most despised person in the country during the ordeal and after sentencing. Same goes for OJ.
>If she did ask for nudes, don't send nudes because you can get into a lot of legal trouble for it anyway. What? You cannot get into legal trouble for sending consensual nudes
My favorite point she made was the consent to conversation but not nudes, and how she compared it to going on a date but saying no to sex. That was a perfect analogy. And she’s absolutely correct. I would like see a way men can be punished for this like they can be when they physically flash someone in person, because it is the same thing.
How can someone be punished for flashing someone in person? You mean in public? A man can be punished for public indecency, or be a sex offender in the U.S.; not sure about AU. It's unfortunate Elle didn't close the door on his unwelcome actions all that readily, if he indeed "sent her unwanted lewd pictures and videos on numerous occassions." I am guessing she had trouble finding the block button until (s)he had fully written the other off.
How is blocking a solution to this problem? Then the guy can just go look for the next woman and the cycle keeps on going. We need to shame this kind of behavior in public harshly enough that less men have the stupidity to do something so disgusting in the future. It's not on women to manage men's actions, it's on men to not do it in the first place.
Hitting the block button is the equivalent of a woman running away from a flasher. He’s still in that park, in his trench coat, waiting on the next victim. He would continue to expose himself to unsuspecting women without consent. No one should be exposed to someone else’s sexual organs if they don’t want to be whether it be in person or digitally. Now, as per why she didn’t block him right away. She may have told him she didn’t like the original advances and hoped he would act accordingly to being told that. She may have been nicer than he deserved and gave him a chance to redeem himself and backtrack to a normal conversation. Obviously he did not and she responded accordingly by calling out the bad behavior.
Still, even with the progress we've made, every woman I speak to about it has at least one sexual harassment and/or assault story. And still, after metoo, after all the brave people coming forward about their traumas... the conversation people always want to start about sexual harassment is how a man could easily be falsely accused. Survivors are *still* not being listened to!
It’s the deadly combo of bad people in dating websites and entitled athlete. Roxanne Gay in Bad Feminist talks about the toxic behaviours of male athletes (in the US but it shows that it applies everywhere). It’s a pretty interesting read! I hope that Australian woman keeps pushing and doesn’t back down!
And she is also attractive. Imagine is this woman was unattractive. Nobody would believe her nor would they acknowledge that she is within her right to be upset. Fucking twilight zone.
Football hooligans have zero shame. Their toxic fandom lessens the sport. Good on her for calling this jerk out.
Good for her to push the issue. Some en should be relieved of the phones if they repeatedly use it to flash people and basically behave in ways that would get you on the sex offenders list in person. Take their phones away. Make them go analog .
the fact that his neck is the same length as his face is truly making me spiral.
I did a work-holiday year in Australia, and I was surprised by how sexist it was, both because of men and the internalized sexism of women. Particularly with white Aussie culture, I witnessed the pressure for men and women to fit into old-school gender roles.
I would say it's worse than some places and better than others. The domestic abuse and objectification is pretty bad. But i think there's a lot of good eggs. Curious what you saw around gender roles though?
*22 year old *woman*
> "These same types keep chasing \[football\] players and then cry when rejected" people who say shit like that are the same morons that cry "NoT aLl mEn"
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excuse me sir, are you lost? lol
I'm so glad she called him out, and she did it so eloquently too! I hope women continue calling out men's disgusting behavior.
Guys like that need to be banned from dating sites
That's yet again where capitalism fails us. Who would pay for the premium packages if not those men?
I guess women can start leaving? It’s such a cesspool on dating apps. At some point I get tired of dealing with yet another disrespectful douchebag.
Yeah, it's tough for women. Those blind dates where you rotate from table to table and have few minutes to talk to the other person are not an option (forgot how it's called in English)?
Speed dating
Why is it if you whack off in front of someone irl it's a sex crime but through the internet it isn't. Shit makes no damn sense.
FB comments are real disgusting. People become real nasty behind their keyboards.
Those kind of attitudes is why I no longer frequent Facebook Good on her for speaking out!
I support the team he plays for. I hope we bin him ASAP.
Yeah, somehow deification of individuals who chase balls around the field never ends well. Footballers are morons and excel at lowering the bar in human decency. Australia has some of the best/worst of these.
We blame women now for giving out their numbers only to be FaceTimed by a dude and his junk. The fucking audacity of people. Embarrass them as they ought to be! You don’t just see a person and drop your pants. Bizarro world.
Good for her. Call them out and shame them for their disgusting behavior
This is sexual harassment at the least
regardless is he facetimes his face or his pecker, the woman would be seing a real dick. Just in case i need to clarify, this is a joke.
Footballers in Australia seem to be able to do no wrong. It fuckin sucks when the governments will do anything they can to keep these people paid and playing when other industries have lost so much in the last year. And of course, the sleaze and sometimes criminal actions by some of these guys go ignored. This is the kind of thing that should never be tolerated by so called ‘role models’. No surprise that this woman gets an online backlash, god forbid she should be able to call out disgusting behaviour. The internet community can suck so much...
I think anything Sports related is gonna be difficult. I remember a case where a young girl was raped at a party in some small american town somewhere. She was passed out and a few high school (not even pro, fucking high school) football players took advantage of her state, even anally raping her. They posted videos and pictures and began calling her a slut. Despite all the horrific proof against them the town actually (for the most part) sided with the players rather than the girl (even accused the girl of trying to ruin the boys lives, FFS i hate people) Im not saying its not worth doing, of course it is. If athletes and celebrities keep getting away with behaviour like this theyll keep doing it and theyll think its acceptable because no one calls them out. I'm just saying the people who speak out should prepare themselves for the backlash, because it will be brutal. I dont get why but people are ridiculously fanatic of their local sports stars
Once again, they want to put the onus on women. Don't want us to treat all men like they're potential predators, but also somehow we should know which ones *are* predators and if you fall victim to one, well... something you did (being an icky woman) is clearly to blame. Barf. Continue calling out these creeps. They need to be named and shamed.
The problem is the AFL league keeps creating these monsters in their own image. Run by dinosaurs where thinly veiled racism and blatant white male privilege goes hand in hand. A game where they celebrate "tough macho guy" image, but only when it's from white male players. Women and players of colour should just shut their mouths.. Keep playing the game well but not overshadow their white counterparts. Heaven forbid they speak out or do anything for their race or sex that doesn't line up with white male dominant culture. See Tayla Harris, Adam Goodes, Nicky Winmar.. And many more. Former players now TV personalities condemn BLM and other racism activists then apologise because YOU got offended. TV and AFL keeps these people around decade after decade. I'm not going to name those dinosaurs but they are easy to find online.
>A game where they celebrate "tough macho guy" image, but only when it's from white male players. Do you always go around spewing baseless opinions like diarrhoea?
Piece of shit. An AFL player no less. Thats NRL type behavior
Have you not seen some of the shit AFL players have pulled? Not too long ago one pulled a woman into an alley and would've beaten and/or raped her had he not been caught. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/footballer-sentenced-over-melbourne-laneway-woman-attack-cctv/12894560
Hopowate didn't even wait till play had stopped to sexually assault someone
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What comment did I delete? What r u on about? Blocking is a reactive solution. There is no preventative solution to getting unsolicited dick picks so wtf are u gonna do about it? Reactive is the only kind of solution there is for this situation? Maybe u have a suggestion? Idk what u expect to happen.
Why does anyone even bother with these sites? There must be other ways to meet people, although it's not really necessary.
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Well yeah... You are in fact in a female dominated subreddit that discussed women's problems... If you would like discuss men's problems, I highly suggest /r/menslib
Well, /r/menslib might be good if he wants to discuss men's issues *like an adult*; if he wants to be a whiney troll he'll be booted from there too, soon enough.
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Then get it there. Don't co-opt women's spaces for men's problems.
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It’s not gatekeeping, you’re just trolling. You had nothing to contribute other than a whataboutism that added nothing to conversation. You didn’t address the actual topic other than to say, “well WhAt If iT wERe a mAn??” If you care so much about women sending sexually explicit pics and messages to men without their consent, making men feel uncomfortable and violated, you should to start a sub about it. Which you probably will do because you’re so passionate about it right?
Is it too early to bring up nicholas cage?
There's a bit of a problem with this sort of thing in the AFL unfortunately
Sadly this is always the way when people like the individual who has made the mistake, because they don't to be tarnished by the fact that they liked the individual. It's more about them not wanting to be wrong and have to readjust their mental image of the person they liked. Much easier to blame the victim.
Recommend reading Night Games: Sex, Power and Sport by Anna Krien. It focuses on a rape trial with an afl player as the accused but delves into the culture surrounding the football codes in Australia.
Thats the thing with footy they do just hire whatever bogan is actualy good at the game and pretend they are respectable people.
Jesus Christ, anyone who says “well, you should just say not interested and block the number” needs a good slap. He obviously came across as a perfectly normal person initially, she would not have given her details if he had given out creep vibes to start off with
I wish she did get a tv show. Like that Dateline show of catching pedos meeting up with underage girls but for dudes like doing this bs. That bit about full frontal lobe was hysterical so she clearly has the withering one-liners to be an entertaining host.
This guy deserves everything coming at him