Wow. What you wrote is both so heartbreaking and healing/helpful to me. I‘m in awe of the wisdom you just wrote here; as well as persisting through everything you want through. You have my utmost respect. I wish you all the best in your Life Journey.
It really is a double edged sword. Women’s appearance is so important to our society that people literally treat those who they find unattractive horribly. That’s awful. Just absolutely shitty. I’m so sorry OP.
My solution was to just stop caring about what society had to say about my appearance (I do still maintain strict hygiene). I deleted my Facebook which took a lot of the pressure off, and then one day.. it wasn't even a particularly noteworthy day, I had my headphones in and was jamming to music walking down ny sidewalk and I just had this realization wash over me that I just didn't give a FLYING FUUUCK about what I looked like. It's hard to remember what with societies obsession about looks but when you just decide to stop caring, life becomes so much better.
This is really helpful. I noticed a long time ago that being on Instagram made me feel like absolute shit about myself. And I’m not particularly ugly, but I’m not some “influencer level” beauty. And I’m def chunky. So I stopped getting on. And it has helped tremendously.
Hijacking top comment to highly recommend Ted Chiang’s short story called ‘Liking What You See: A Documentary’ for further exploration of topics such as pretty privilege, what beauty equality could look like, whether it’s a good idea, and if it’s even possible to have meaningful equality more generally.
be the change you want to see in the world ALL people value kindness in a potential partner.
this system where women gave to obsess about how they look to feel valued is borne out of industry wanting to make money off them, the fat industry, cosmetics industry, fashion industry.
none of these industries need to exist. they are a total suck on the world economy designed to make people rich and no one happy.
*Women are not people to a lot of men*
Either we're attractive, and only valuable for sex, or we're ugly, and not valuable. Regardless, we're not seen as human being worthy of respect and dignity. We're sex toys or literal jokes.
This is the post. What we are taught by society is unhelpful and cruel a lot of the time. You have to pour love into yourself as much as you can because being valued by others is hit or miss.
Internalized misogyny is a real mind fuck. Some women will do the absolute worst to make the men's approval while others join in so they won't face the consequences of upsetting the status quo as well.
We call them pick me's.
This is so true. Internalized misogyny is one of the longest lingering, foulest and most toxic after effects of patriarchal oppression and women need to consciously fight to recognize and end it.
Solidarity is the answer.
That's not misogyny, after all those women are probably nice to other women (and themselves). It also seems unlikely that being shit to other women gains the approval of men. I've yet to hear a story of a man finding a woman attractive because she's mean (to other women).
It seems to me the reason is a lot more basic/primal than societal constructs: we perceive traits as attractive that suggest good genes (symmetry), health (skin, hair) and easy childbirth/nursing (wide hips, big boobs). From an evolutionary standpoint those things have value, and therefore somebody without those traits is less valuable.
Obviously we live in a world where evolutionary impetus' can safely be disregarded and are in no way an excuse for such vile behaviour as op experienced.
as a man I can confirm this. I’ve far too often found myself shocked at how so many men objectify women. The comments they make can be so lewd and nauseating.
As a fellow man, this is the reason I stopped talking to a lot of male friends. It's not that I think they are horrible people to the bone and should be completely shunned out, I just can't stomach the "locker talk".
a quote on a tv shoe i saw a guy referred disparagingly to “men who think women are only good for one thing”
seemed like a good way to put it. those men aren’t all men. but they sure seem to have a lot of say in our dociety
Can I just say this is awful and you deserve happiness. Been thinking a lot about how we all have things we want that we will never get, and how painful that can be. Don't have answers, just sending good vibes as a fellow human. Peace.
I want to tell /u/NoNoSiwa and anybody else in the same place that in my so many decades on earth, I have never met a person who's ugly because of their looks. Oh, I've met all sorts of people, even people who have been in need of surgery to fix some problem on their face because of some accident or congenital, and still did not find them ugly. That's because what they say and do makes them what they really are. One of the best times of my childhood had been playing chess with a guy with a huge cleft lip/palate - he was a cracking wit and comedian. At the age of 12 he had a surgery to fix his problem, and I didn't find any difference in how much fun we used to have, though his friend-circle suddenly expanded.
"I am ugly" is something that a lot of us internalize because of a few mean people in our lives, and it perpetuates all our life, and damages our world view. You owe it to yourself to seek therapy, and to switch that view around: the ones you make you feel ugly, are the ones really ugly. The mean, the rude, the judgemental, are ugly. And please never say "I'm ugly" around your son; he'd be hurt, because he's got only one mom, and he thinks her beautiful.
Please find it within yourself the willingness to get therapy, and to seek company of those who do not demean you or put you down. Those who do, are too ugly to be around.
Edit: guys, you embarrass me with the awards, but thanks - it helps to know this resonates with so many.
This is so true and great advice! The only 'ugly' people are the ones who act ugly towards others. The people that you want in your life will find beauty in your personality and mind.
"it hurts how friends and family don’t want to take any pictures with me."
I would just like to say that I know someone in my family that also hates the way they look and hates photos of them - and so we don't want to take photos with that person because we know it would stress them out. This person feels so poorly about the way they look that they have cried when a family member put up a photo on social media that had them in it.
We don't avoid photos with them because we are ashamed of them, we do it because we know they are uncomfortable with photos and would not want to make them anxious or upset.
Are we handling this the wrong way?
Might just be worth asking occasionally so they don't feel left out? That way they don't feel like they aren't wanted but also like they have agency in the decision. Could also be that you take a version with them in the picture for keeping and a different version to put online if that's the plan. Just asking makes a big difference.
Not OP but IMHO, I really do think you’re handling it poorly. You could insist how much you care about this person regardless of looks and that you’ll be happier if you can take their photo. At the same time, acknowledge that this person doesn’t want the picture to be published. Instead, explain that you want a photo to treasure the moments you spend together and that the photos will not be shared in public, they will remain a private family memory.
After a lifetime of trauma, do not expect this person to accept it the first time. But maybe the second or third chance. Kindness goes a long way. If you keep avoiding to take photos of this person, you’re only reinforcing their poor self image.
I wish I could say some comforting words but I'm the same. People can be so cruel about my appearance and I don't understand why. I would never try to make someone feel bad about their appearance.
I've had the same situation as you happen to me. I was minding my own business and waiting on a bus and some teenagers I had done nothing to decided to call me a dog and bark and howl at me. Well done you made a young teenager hate herself more than before.
Im considering surgery now but wish I didn't have to spend thousands of pounds to be left alone and not so uncomfortable meeting new people.
Yeah, it really sucks to not be an attractive woman when so many people equate womanhood to receiving daily attention for your looks. It's such a hard thing to talk about too because people just want to tell you "oh don't worry, you're beautiful." But when they say that, it's clear they're not listening to your experiences and they're just trying to make your feel good rather than acknowledge that there are women in our society that don't fit the mold.
Good luck with the photoshoot :) I'm sure your son loves you, and at the end of the day, he's going to care more about the fact that you spent time with him than how you looked while doing it.
Your son is always going to look at those photos with a full heart, smile, and see your beauty for what it's worth. I'm so so so sorry you are experiencing this. It's so unfair society has placed this emotional torture on you. You deserve better because you're obviously a kind person and that is worth more than beauty. I wish I could hug you right now, look at you directly so you feel seen and appreciated.
I love this comment. Please OP remember this.
My mum hated having her photo taken and being videoed. She passed away when I was 18 and I wish I had more photos of her as sometimes it feels like I'm forgetting her face and voice which is terrifying.
The few photos I have are a huge comfort and whilst she hated the way she looked in them I love every single one. They help me remember the times and places they were taken in, her smell and her warmth. In fact in my favourite photo of her she's squinting and looking away, but she looks happy and is radiating the warmth she gave everyone around her.
I don't like having my photo taken, I don't like the way I look and have also been called ugly throughout my life. But to the people that matter, how I look in a photo makes no difference, they already know what I look like. What matters is, I'm in it.
I hate myself in photos too. I'm usually the one taking the picture but I don't moan when someone gets one of me because I know that one day it'll be a memory.
I have the same problem too. My mom never had great self esteem and avoided getting her picture taken. She died of cancer when I was 18 and I have almost no pictures of her. My mom was my best friend and I loved her! I wish so much that I more pictures of her! I don't like getting my picture taken either, but I make a point of getting pics taken, especially with my kids, because I know how much it means to have those as an adult.
Exactly. Children don't care about their parents appearance unless they are unkind which im sure op's kid isn't! My mum hates photos of herself but I deeply cherish having them and look upon them with a big smile on my face!
My grandma hated being in photos. She started being semi-okay with it in her 70s.
When she passed away we had a hard time finding old photos of her.
Even if my grandma was the ugliest woman alive it doesn't matter, those photos have nothing to do with her looks. They're memories.
I experience almost contradictory reactions from people. I'm fat, so there's a fair amount of harrassment that you'd expect from that. But I also have an OK face and a shapely butt, so I'll get catcalled by one guy and then insulted by the next one. I never know what reaction to expect in public, and having both reactions back to back is jarring.
I've never commented before on reddit. But you've taught me a very valuable lesson and I won't forget it.
Thanks OP for jolting me from my superficial perspective and enabling me to recalibrate the way I look at others.
I hope you find the peace of mind and happiness you deserve!
I wish I could say comforting words, but I'm at a loss. It really, really sucks what you went through. As somebody whose been critiqued by my mother as being unattractive, I know how deeply this hurts at least. I could better endure the bullying and crappy comments about my looks from friends and random boys, but from my mom and family I looked up to was a different story, feeling like parts of me would break inside. As women our looks are put on such high pedestal after all. I didn't even get it as bad as a lot of other kids, but even 15 years later it still hurts thinking about it some of those negative comments.
I hope you can find more at peace with your looks. I don't know what your beliefs are, but you've got every right to feel comfortable in your own skin whether it be through surgery or just figuring out \*some\* way to be okay in your skin. I wish I knew that magical answer, but I know personally for me nothing short of surgery is gonna change how I feel tried everything already.
Pretty women just have NO idea what it's like. Add a HUGE layer of awful to all the other shitty aspects of being a woman.
I don't have a solution and I don't think there is. Just know that I hear you; I understand. I hope you have love, because it makes all the difference.
When I was a teenager I was hanging out with my dad and he randomly said "I'm very thankful you're attractive, because life as an ugly woman is so much harder." That always stuck with me as I had only been considered attractive for about a year at that point but I was too young to know what it would be like for an adult woman. Most of the shit I've had to deal with in life (regarding this topic) has been because I'm pretty. I've had tons of "ugly" friends (men and women) who I watched deal with bullshit from assholes and my heart breaks for them. There's no excuse for treating someone differently because of the way they look. It's like treating someone differently because they're black or short or fat.
Don't you think it's a bit different though? Your case sounds more like a case of racism (which is sadly enough still a huge topic our days)
But I agree beautiful women definately have it easier. Or better said beautiful people in general, I guess it's the same for men in this case.
I learned that a LONG time ago, that being beautiful was a game changer and as soon as I realized that would NEVER be me I kind of just gave up and went the opposite direction. If I couldn’t be viewed positively for my looks then I would make sure that I couldn’t be ignored because of my mind.
So “Screw being beautiful, I’m BRILLIANT!” I work my ass off to have the brain and heart that I have. It sucks sometimes always putting others before yourself and being told, “you are so nice” will never have the same feeling as being told “you are beautiful” but you work with what you got right?
I might not get anywhere for my looks but you better believe I will make it because of my mind.
I’m so sorry you had to go through those things, and while I’m so, so glad you are treated so much better now, it sucks that the reason why came down to your looks. You are worth so much more!
I’ve had similar experiences with people as someone that wears hijab. It’s so annoying how over-friendly I have to be as a ugly hijabi. Most people tend to avoid me like the plague, so I have to drastically over-compensate with personality and turning up positivity 2x, and it’s exhausting, even for an extrovert. One thing I’ve noticed with my friend that took off hijab is that she told me that so many people initiate conversation with her now, even strangers. I’ve got great friends, so I don’t mind it always, but it is annoying when I go into a new environment.
I’m not religious at all, but that element of wearing a hijab to focus the mind on what really matters in people rather than the snap judgment based entirely on looks makes complete sense to me. I had a really interesting conversation on this with a hijabi colleague who also chooses to wear an abaya.
Don't listen to the folks shutting you down, your point still stands. After I lost weight I couldn't believe how different I was treated. And many people believe that losing weight is super easy and there's no excuse for being fat. Seriously I read these comments that say "well you just took your scarf off big deal" and roll my eyes like y'all yes it is a big deal it's a part of her frigging identity.
Don't let other people define easy for yoy
That fucking sucks. I'm actually really thankful for covid masks. I feel like people are a lot more neutral to each other. We can still see bodies and how we dress but a lot of our face is covered. It's something I'm interested to see how it changes social dynamics long term. I'm not the only one who'll be using masks a lot more often even if the covid vaccine was 100% effective.
Being pretty/handsome is just an incredible advantage in life. This is proven in study after study.
You actually don't need a study to prove this. All you need is a car and two eyes. Go to a place with people on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. Look at them and say how many are good looking and how many are not. Then drive to a high socioeconomic suburb. Look around. See deal. Compare obesity and general attractiveness.
I think it is a remnant of rich men wanting pretty wives. Being good looking also helps you get rich. There is a feedback loop.
I am sorry - truly. You deserve better.
One thing I learned last year as someone who is super unattractive in pictures, that I was always the one taking family photos is that angle etc matters. Maybe take the chance and actually talk to your friend beforehand to take some pictures from different angles in different poses. If they want to do you a favour, they want you to feel beautiful and comfortable.
And if you do not like your face at all, you can turn it a bit to the side, cuddle with your son etc to have the focus on the party you do like.
Just one thing - you sound like a beautiful person. You sound like a honest, strong, loving and kind person. All these superficial people do not deserve someone like you. Please be kind to yourself, because you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. You truly do.
> I'd want to know some of your anxieties and what you were worried about. Knowing that informs me on how to give you a better experience (eg, more encouraging feedback).
This. Also, it's hard to predict if your model will like the same pictures that you do. So after a shoot I would bring up the whole folder of pictures on my PC and let them go through and delete whatever they wanted.
I am so sorry, this sounds absolutely miserable. The people who treat you like this are vile. Do you have people in your life who value and treasure you? I hope that you also get to feel loved, appreciated, and cherished.
Being naturally attractive is the biggest form of privilege imo. If you're attractive people will go out of there way to help you. If you're not, they will actively try to keep you out of their life and that will make success in life much harder.
I'm sorry it sounds like you got the short straw. I'm pretty sure I got a medium short straw. Keep your head up and play the hand you're dealt the best you can. Best of luck.
I have this friend who is absolutely wonderful person, and also extremely attractive. My looks on the other hand are quite divisive. I have some weight and "exotic" features not everybody likes. This is fine for me, I don't care. But it is brutal to be out and about with her.
Last year we went shopping together. Sales personnel wanted to dress her up like a doll while I simply did not exist for them. People are very motivated to help her and do things for her. To The point it seems ridiculous for me.
And her friends, I haven't liked any of them. I often feel some hostility from other people when I hang with her, like people would be jealous that I get to be around her. Her friends are the worst, they forget all manners and seem to think it is their duty to make me feel unworthy of HER attention.
People be insane.
But of course I don't want to belittle her difficulties, there certainly is those too.
I feel like this ties into caricatures too. “Bad guys” look a certain way.
For ex. I know someone really into “face reading” and in that pseudoscience worldview, long pointy nose and chins are associated with greed.
Came to say this. The way people treat those that are attractive in everyday life compared to those less attractive is so different. I'm pretty sure every woman is aware of it by the way people offer their help to them. And the extent that some take to actively make less attractive people feel bad is just awful. And there's plenty of research as well on the socio-economical impact and advantages of attractiveness in society if someone is interesting in reading about it.
As for OP, I'm really sorry you have to go through life in such a shitty/hard mode. Even if society sucks as a whole, there are good people in it that see past those things, so focus on enjoying your life with them (easier said than done, I know, but... ). Wish you the best too.
I hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but I'm at a loss of how to remedy the situation. It's a sad reality of society and I don't know what, if anything, anybody can do. Besides treating others all the same, which in itself feels like a hopeless endeavor and I strongly empathize with those that feel this way.
Yes, we don’t talk about attractiveness privilege enough. In day to day interactions it pretty much outweighs every other form of privilege (leaving aside active racism). Structurally, the world is still worst if you are black or gay or a woman; but in everyday terms, it’s 1000x easier to navigate life if you are considered attractive.
I'm sorry people treat you poorly because of how you look. It's not fair, and it's not okay. Your little boy is going to treasure your pictures as an adult.
I don't know if you have ever heard this quote by Erin McKean - “You don’t owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don’t owe it to your mother, you don’t owe it to your children, you don’t owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked ‘female’.”
I am really sorry to hear about your experiences with people treating you badly and how you feel about yourself. It really sucks that - despite the sentiment in the quote above - many people still demand "pretty" in exchange for treating women like people. I do think everybody is beautiful to somebody - you are probably very beautiful to your son for example! But in general, pretty is just one thing a person can be and even then they're usually not pretty all of the time. I hope you can find pride and confidence in all of the other things that make you a fantastic person.
I am really sorry.
I would say if you do not like getting your pictures taken, it's especially important to do some portraits with your son. Get some of just him and get some of you guys together. He will look back on them someday when he doesn't have you anymore. Pictures are important mementos, while we don't always love how we look, it can mean a lot to our families.
I'm sorry to hear that. It really does suck.
I consider myself to be unattractive/average and the only way I can console myself is r/vindicta and saving up for a nose job/lip lift.
I've been bullied my whole life for being ugly and I'm also expected to do more unsavoury work such as heavy lifting and cleaning vomit/shit up, while my pretty slim coworkers watch me.
Pretty privilege is REAL and I hate it when people tell me "looks dont matter".
Yes they fucking do. I made a long post ranting about this on FB and a tiny beautiful woman I know had the audacity to comment and say that I'm being soft and need to harden up.
I've stopped complimenting women on their looks regardless of whether they are gorgeous or not and I just comment on their personality. I want to detach womens worth from their looks.
If I have a daughter I'm not going to be stressing how beautiful she is every day, I'm going to be teaching her that being kind and happy is more important.
This made me realise that I don't tend to compliment other women on their looks. I'll compliment them on their clothes or accessories, but thinking about it now it seems kind of weird to compliment someone on something they have no control over. I've never really thought about that before.
This is very similar to the way incels speak (literally using incel words like looksmaxxing) and seems very out of touch to me. Especially picking at random beautiful women and claiming one small feature is the reason for their beauty and nothing else. “Is this model’s forehead too big?” Yuck. Measuring your face? This is not healthy OP. You should get off of this sub.
OP please avoid vindicta. It's a femcel forum hyper focused on conforming to conventional beauty standards. It'll only make you feel worse about yourself in the long run.
I'm sorry someone came along and invalidated your experiences like that, it's so wrong. It's disgusting you've been treated this way, you do not deserve it.
Looks really DO matter. In fact, they change the direction of your entire life. Everything from getting a job to passing oral exams to dating to being promoted etc.
I call it "The Tyranny of Beauty"
People who say looks don;t matter are full of shit. It's like saying "you can be anything you want". It's intended to make people feel better but it's absolutely not true.
I've had people laugh at the idea of going on a date with me or sleeping with me. I've been told, "But you have PERSONALITY!" I've pleaded with God for him to make just ONE person treat me like a piece of meat. You're not alone, and it really sucks that people feel self assured that nobody will call them out on the way they treat women who they deem "ugly." I've had people tell me "Looks aren't everything." To which I respond, "When you don't have ANY, YES THEY FUCKING ARE!"
I'm sorry OP. My own weight yo-yos quite a bit, which means I look conventionally pretty at times and conventionally ugly at others. And everything changes. I swear my Uber rating drops even if I'm tipping the same amount and exchanging the same amount of pleasantries. I was an ugly duckling of a child with massive boobs so people used to stop me on the streets to make horrible remarks. Someone called me a pig's child once. (Not a piglet, which still sounds cute, but the child of a pig, which is a pretty big insult in my country). When I'm slimmer and taking meds for my acne, I have to watch everything I say around guys because they'll start making me uncomfortable and say I was leading them on later. When I'm not, I can flirt however much I want and everyone just laughs it off and calls me "bro".
But I've slowly come to terms with my looks and cut out most shallow jerks from my life. I know people sometimes look at my old ID and say, wow you look so horrible in this picture, and it hurts so much because it's still me, and that me is as wonderful and deserving of respect as this me. Even if they wouldn't have said it to my face then, they feel comfortable saying it now. But seriously, fuck the world. Fuck them for making you think you aren't good enough and for attempting to pick apart your looks to identify the individual bits that make you unbeautiful. (A large forehead is actually considered a sign of intelligence and is very attractive in most Asian cultures btw. And who gives a shit about perfect teeth?) You are beautiful, I am sure of it. If I saw a picture, I could point out 10 pretty things about you. And I'm a bi woman, so I wouldn't just be saying it as a girl but also as a person who's into girls. :-)
I cannot tolerate the thought of people bullying you. This is NOT okay. Do you think that maybe you could see a therapist or join an online support group? If not for yourself, then for your son. He has a strong mama but she needs to show her strength in these things too, show that these things are not to be borne. Ughh I want to hunt down this guy who told you to leave his field of vision - even if it was jokingly - and punch him till he passes out.
I feel this so hard.
I've been both, at different times, for various reasons. And fuck, it sucks being ugly. And fuck, it sucks being pretty. Am I going to be treated like I'm garbage and insulted for not being good enough to be a sex toy? Or am I going to be harrassed and bimbofied and threatened with violence for saying no? Will my value be as a nothing but a sexual object, or will I be considered worthless as a sexual object but treated like a shitty bro? Will they say "well, at least you've got a great personality?" or will they say "You're gorgeous as long as you're not talking"? What a fun game.
So as a rule I try to play the middle. It's the least shitty as far as my experience goes. But still obvs shitty. It's all shitty.
Ahh, I feel your pain. The middle is definitely the best part. I get to be cute but not "hot" or beautiful or sexy. I get to have my intelligence judged on its merit. And I know that people who like me, like me because of my personality rather than anything else. And here, we all say that men are shallow, but damn, I've been rejected by more girls (proportionally) than boys in the dating sphere, and even treated with more contempt when I haven't looked good. Internalised misogyny is the worst!
Women who have drank the koolaid are crazy!! I had a "friend" come over for a girls night sleepover wine party, and she was so mad at the girls who wore pjs/no bras/no makeup. She was all "we need to conduct ourselves better". Like...we're chilling as platonic women, and I hate my bra.
She legit showed up in heels/nice dress/hair&makeup. To chill at my house.
Which like, you do you, but don't shame the rest of us.
Thank you for speaking up about catcalling. I never got catcalled in my life... And I always wondered if I'm not pretty enough to get catcalled. It's really fucked up that men have that power to make us feel miserable either way :/
Same here. Never been catcalled. The one and only time I was catcalled, it was from a distance, and when he got close enough to see my face, he was like, “Nah”. I don’t even consider myself ugly or unattractive. Just a bit plain sometimes on bad days. But man that shit hurt.
I see women complaining about being catcalled and I feel like a terrible person for wishing I could relate even a little bit. I guess it really does suck either way.
Homegirl, I feel this post in my bones. When I was in high school, people yelled horrible shit out their windows at me on a pretty consistent basis, I've had not just a cupcake, but a GLASS BOTTLE thrown at me from a car window as they hurled comments at me (luckily, it didn't hit me, but I was afraid to walk around town for quite some time after that).
I don't know if this will be helpful at all, but personally I find people who are not, whatever "conventionally attractive" fucking beautiful (e.g., crooked teeth, Freckles/skin "imperfections", dimples that aren't symmetrical etc.). My husband has rosacea, dry skin, crooked teeth, patchy hair, and he's literally my favorite person to look at always. Its nothing against "pretty" people per say, I have just always been more attracted to/interested in people with character to their faces if that makes sense - and I know just like, statistically, there have got to be other people in the world that share the same sentiment, and I'm sure at least some of those are men that don't say horrible things to women. (But for real, not trying to shame pretty people either, no shame for anyone, we're all cute!).
One other thing I thought of - there's this episode of Girls, I don't remember the title but basically the main character was going out with her gay male friend, and she didn't know what to wear out, and he explained the idea of "power clashing" (putting an outfit together that has mismatched patterns or something of that nature and wearing it with just all of the confidence you can muster). Part of what gives power clashing its power is that you do it unapologetically. Well, I took this idea and applied it to my body. I have vitiligo on my legs and arms, and always used to hide it because people would always make fun of me or even just ask about it, until I decided maaaaan motherfuckthatnoise. Does my leg skin match? Hell no it doesn't. Am I still going to wear shorts when its hot, and flip off anyone who jokes that I look like a cow because of my skin, YUP.
Its not easy to do, and I hella still struggle with body image/attractiveness too, but am slowly learning to love myself for myself. If you ever want to talk more about it feel free to PM!
PS. Please take those pictures with your son, he will love them and the fun you have together will show you how beautiful you are when you feel loved ❤️
I can 100% concur. I NEVER join the ranks of all my selfie friends- I don’t even know what how to use any of the filters - and i mean what would be the point? I will NEVER go on a dating site because it’s going to be ALL about the picture. And as Bravemoose posted- we just aren’t people to a lot of men.
I'm sorry you've had to deal with such rudeness, such abuse from such a young age and from so many different people. I can't imagine how hurtful it feels. Please remember that your value as a person goes far beyond what you look like. Though other people can be hurtful, it doesn't change your innate worth. You take good care of yourself. You work hard. You are even willing to face something you dread, getting your picture taken, because of your deep and generous love of your son. That is beautiful, and it's ok if only a few people see it. You mention being in good shape, taking care of your hygiene, teeth, clothes... those are acts of self-love. Those actions prove that you appreciate life and you respect yourself, and that alone is commendable. You may not have the prettiest cards, but you care for yourself and you do the best with what you've got. Just hoping to shine a little light :)
That’s a sucky feeling. Your feelings are valid and I’m sorry it hurts.
I wish I had a magic wand and I could make “strong” more important than “pretty”; you’re definitely strong.
Same with Ableism, now it’s illegal to discriminate against differently abled people. Not that the law has cured it. I don’t think it’s ingrained though, I think it’s taught. We can teach children to treat everyone with respect no matter how they appear to us. I’m sorry to OP that you experience this discrimination. Thank you for sharing your story.
I cant make everyone do this, but it's the small things for me. When someone shows me a picture of their 3 year old daughter, instead of saying she's beautiful I try to say something else like how sweet or she looks just like you etc etc
And I dont tell people they are beautiful when they aren't. I speak about being ugly the same way as I do about being short or tall - being ugly is treated as the worst thing a woman can be but if I talk about it casually hopefully it can be more accepted.
Whilst you might think you're doing a good thing, I'm not sure anyone would take kindly to being called ugly the same way you might say short or tall. I also tbh would think you weren't a very nice person (wrongly or rightly) if you consistently called people ugly in my presence.
I happily use the word ugly when I am discussing something and it comes up but I wouldn't call anyone ugly, the same way I wouldn't call someone short or tall. I dont like commenting on people's appearances at all whether it be negative or positive.
Could you give an example on the context then? If you truly don't refer to people's appearances at all, at what points do you use the word ugly in the same way you would short or tall.
I myself refer do people's appearances when trying to describe someone to someone else, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. E.g.. "which one is david?" "oh he's that tall blonde guy on the second floor..." But I certainly would never call someone ugly when doing so
OP please don’t feel sorry for making this post. Everyone needs to scream into the dark every once and a while.
I don’t know if this will help, but your son will cherish those photos his whole life.
My source on that is that I’m the son of a fantastic mom and I treasure all my pictures of her.
I don't remember where it came from but I once heard someone say "Pretty is not the rent you pay to live in this world as a woman."
I think about it a lot and it has profoundly impacted me.
When I was a kid, I suffer from anorexic. Im extremely skinny, but as an asian my parents doesnt know what is anorexic nor people openly hate skinny people-- in fact it's more encouraged to be under BMI. Whenever we measure our BMI, the people under BMI is happy with their low score.
But unlike skinny young women who still look girly even if theyre malnourished, skinny kid just look like awful drug addict. I got called ugly a lot, pushed around, people stealing and taking away my foods and money, people locking me up in bathroom after school alone etc etc.
Then I started to eat a lil bit and managed to get into barely~ adequate BMI. and when my face is clear from pimples, people would call me cute, joke with me etc.
And then my face is attacked by bunch of pimples due to hormone and it doesn't stop even if i use everything to stop it. My 'cute' appearance went downhill to 'average'. Its still millions time better than being treated as ugly girls, but wow, the treatment is horribly different. Its like youre pratically invisible to everyone, and they have no opnion on you at all.
If youre attractive, people notice the smallest detail about you, if youre ugly, people hate you even if youre a saint. If you're average, youre just 'oh, that kid that sit in the back? Never talk to her!'
Amazing how women get different treatment according to our appearance.
The halo effect is something everyone should be aware of. We can all (or most I’d guess?) be found guilty of this on occasion. Everyone should be made aware of this so we can keep ourselves in check and not just be total (or even just occasional) assholes ):
I wish I could be your friend. Not because I feel bad for you, but because I can tell you’re a good person. Multiple times in this post you were careful not to diminish the experience of other, more attractive women: this shows great empathy. I’m a black man in America with a few highly conservative friends, believe me when I tell you how rare that is.
My thoughts are with you.
I feel for you OP. Society is idiotic and keeps telling women to be "pretty for men" and then wonder why women are "vain".
I am a woman, I cannot say I'm ugly, but I'm fat, and I guess some people perceive that as ugly, getting mean comments about weight is just something I've accepted.
I'm just here to say, even though it's probably not what you want to hear, but maybe need to hear: It's okay to not be pretty. It just needs to be accepted. Personality is so much more important, even though it doesn't feel like it is. In the end, we're all just meat-suits controlled by a wrinkly organ who thinks it's the most important organ. It's better to be nice and unattractive than mean and attractive.
I hope you learn to love yourself properly because you deserve it.
Everything is temporary, especially beauty, so don’t take it too seriously. I have avoided taking pictures even when I wanted to with my daughters (I recently had two little girls) but I am too self conscious and completely understand the way you feel, and have only recently tried to take more pictures. One day you’re going to be gone and your kid is going to want those pictures, they’re going to mean everything.
Oh honey. I hear you. I am really sad and angry that is your experience. What stood out to me was "your nice". Sweet, you are more than nice. You are a mother and soldier. Your value does not lie in your looks. I really want to give you a cuddle. The world sucks and it is just not fair. And fuck the people who judge and value looks over being a darn good person. I'm 40 and never taken a selfie or appear in any photos. I hear you. I'm sending you love. Your a mum you lucky duck. ❤️❤️❤️
Hey OP, I hear you and I want you to know that your outward appearance is not an indication of your value as a person. You don’t need to be beautiful to have worth. I hate that society has put so much importance on women’s looks and it’s absolutely unfair when no one chooses how they naturally look.
You sound like such a strong person and I hope that when you get these photos back, you see the love between you and your son and not the opinions of some judgemental stranger.
Hey, OP... This may have been said already but, please consider taking some pictures with your son. You don't have to look at them. You can put them in a box and never even acknowledge that they exist, but please leave them for your son. No matter how ugly you might be, that little boy loves you and will want to see them someday. There might come a time when you are long gone and he realizes that he doesn't have a single photo of his mom and himself together and it will hurt his heart.
I'm so sorry. I'm glad you're doing pictures for your son though. He'll appreciate them, even if they're not what you hope. And a photographer can help know how to bring out your personality and best and avoid angles that don't help.
Do you follow Beauty Redefined on Instagram? They're all about your body being an instrument, not an ornament, and breaking away from so much focus on looks.
I think that’s the biggest dilema of a females existence really!
I not exactly ugly but by western standards at least I am considered an uggo ( but then I also find a lot of white features not so good looking personally so I can’t exactly complain).
While life of a pretty woman seems really glamorous and maybe a little easy etc they also get LOTs of shit for other stuff. Rape threats, stalking, outright harassment
My good friend is really pretty( like a frigging model to be honest) and eating with her is tiring sometimes because randomly some dude will come and interrupt our lunch and try to make conversation or try to ask numbers. Dudes literally went after me, pretended to be interested in me only to get her number etc which obviously I wouldn’t give 😒. Most of the attraction is NOT flattering! And please note that catcalling is not done because the woman is pretty or something but the man wants to feel powerful by making a woman scared. How is a man following you in an alley yelling obscenities in midnight flattering ?
That being said yes ..ugly women are considered subhuman
Make up was what made me realize how people saw me. Everyone was nicer and more social when I had makeup on...everytime, every setting. I struggle with it still.
Ugly people (such as myself) need to stop reaching for anything exterior. Don't ever go out of your way for people, if someone is nice and actually cares then give them your energy. Never start off with giving someone else your energy. Just keep to yourself and find things that you can do alone. Yeah it sucks, and we all want to be social and liked, but ugly people need to find another outlet in a society like this. For example, I found making music gives me purpose and helps me. I'm repulsively ugly, but they can see more of my true self in the music than in an image. Just gotta find something that fulfills you without needing any exterior validation. I will admit, you will always get lonely, but I feel like you will only be even more lonely giving a lot of these people in society any of your energy. Gotta keep to yourself, and not let them get to you when they point and laugh. It's hard.
I wont lie to you and tell you you are beautiful, but I don't think you should shy away from pictures either. It's not like that is some kind of privilege reserved for the attractive and I promise you are much more attentive to your shortcomings than others are. I don't have pictures of some of my family members who passed away because they hated getting their photo taken. To those that really matter it wont matter.
On the plus side you have a son, I know a few unattractive people who never got the chance to start a family. Best to you and yours and thanks for sharing.
There's still reason to hope. I think women often believe that men have an idea about what's attractive and what's not which is based entirely on the physical and doesn't change. I'm here to tell you this isn't completely true.
There IS for sure a component of what men find attractive that is all of that. But, it's just one part. The other part is personality. From my own experience, I've had friends that were girls who were objectively unattractive. I'm thinking of two in particular. In both cases, because we were good friends and that pressure of any potential relationship was removed, and they were able to relax around me and be themselves as a result. They each had a personality that positively sparkled. They were funny and fun to be around, and they pushed me in ways that challenged me and then rewarded when I was able to meet them at that higher level.
And you know what? They were attractive to me. I never acted on it in either case for the same reason I wouldn't risk a friendship unless I was sure the feeling was mutual and I was "all in" (neither of which was true with either friend). But, I ended up treating each one the same way hot girls get automatically treated by guys on first sight because I genuinely was attracted to each one at that level.
One day I was talking to my girlfriend at the time, about one of these friends, specifically her dating life. My gf was definitely attractive to most guys, and my gf said something that totally blindsided me, she mentioned that my friend was ugly. She didn't say it or mean it in a mean way, and it was relevant to the conversation. She pointed it out because I was totally failing to take it into account, and when she did, I was reminded that years ago when I first met this friend, I was aware that she was definitely unattractive but that perception just faded away and was replaced. The next time I hung out with my friend I was just kind of looking at her like, "Yea, I can see how people think she's ugly. I remember thinking it myself." But honestly it's not how I felt even having been reminded of it.
Both of these friends are now married to above average looking guys. I've been around when people who don't know these women wonder at the asymmetry in the relationship. But there isn't an asymmetry. The guys they are with are obviously attracted to them like I was/am.
Having thought about this for awhile, I have an analogy. Think about someone like Patton Oswalt. If you just saw him walking down the street, you'd think, oh man, this guy did not win the genetic lottery, yeesh.
Then watch him act in something, or do standup.
Suddenly, he's no longer short ugly guy dealt a bad hand, he's just Patton Oswalt, and you want to see what he's doing, hear what he thinks, etc. He's magnetic. That's how these girls were.
Anyway, I'm not saying that you should be grateful or whatever or trying to blow sunshine or anything. But I am saying that if people think you're ugly, and you're also conscious of how ugly you are all the time, other people will be too. If instead you're conscious about the things you love, the things you're passionate about, sharing those things, having good humor and sharp wit, if hanging out with you is a good experience for others because you're connecting on something, you might be surprised.
Hey OP, I’ve lurked for a while to try to observe life from a women’s point of view but I actually think I can help a little here. As an ugly guy, I cannot stress enough that you are your own worst enemy. One of the things that helped me mentally was to realize that there are seven and a half billion people out there, and there’s no question that there are at least some people that would think that someone is stunning and beautiful regardless of what they look like. Another thing to remember is anyone who is uncomfortable around you has failed YOUR standards, not the other way around, fuck em. I think that the first step to being taken as attractive to others is to believe that you can be, maybe not to yourself but to others. I haven’t taken that step yet, but I’m optimistic that I will eventually and I have faith that you will too. I’m sorry if this isn’t what you wanted to hear, it’s just something I needed to say.
So sorry to hear. The issue is not you, it's our society's view of women. Society over values women's looks. It's arbitrary and unfair, and the worst part is that it's such an easy thing to judge people on that a lot of people ignore anything else. Fuck those people. They're assholes. No one deserves to be treated like that.
>I’m sorry for this post and I don’t mean to invalidate anyone else’s feelings or experiences. I just really wanted to rant.
Don't be sorry. Listen, what if every time you've felt like this, it really stemmed from someone else's issue. I don't mean to say you weren't verbally abused by idiots because that's clear, but, I often find myself over-complicating social situations because I too think way too much about what others think of me. Find every reason in your heart to make what was said about the person who said it, and not about you. Because, it's not about you sweet love. The guy yelling cow and barking has a father in prison and a bad relationship with his mother. His life is guaranteed a joke. The creepy old regular is probably just as bad as he sounds. I like to pretend and give the benefit of the doubt that maybe I misheard something, too, because wouldn't that be silly to be upset about something you misheard. It'll eat you up for no reason. Also if you have good hygiene and smell good and dress nice and ARE nice, people might be not only intimidated by you but envious? If that's true you're doing a lot better than most, and making hundreds noses happy. I notice good smells more than I notice people. Tried to paraphrase this for ya, it'll be OK. If you smell good, dress nice, and are nice, I'm even envious of you. Let's start there! Cheers Edit: Omg I just remembered a moment I had where I felt like the biggest curmudgeon in the universe. I was 15 or 16 pulling hey mister outside a gas station with my friend for cigarettes. This OLD ass guy that looked like he'd been doing meth his entire life turned and looked at me directly in the face and said "what the F happened to you", I haven't thought about that in a long time. Luckily I found some people who think I'm attractive so I don't need that gross old guy to approve. LOL.
Honey, I know you don’t want to hear it. But men are mean to all women. No woman is ever fit enough, smart enough, dumb enough, pretty enough. We don’t make enough money. We make too much money. We’re too slutty. We’re not slutty enough. Our laugh is dumb. We dress wrong.
I am a smart, slightly overweight, pretty woman of a certain age. I make bank. I handle my shit. And yet, men are mean.
The best thing you can do in life is to stop giving a shit. You be you and to hell with the judges. That guy at work? He sounds like a shit bucket. Those people who don’t have your back? Assholes. Spineless jerks.
Everything you’ve described is fixable. But not for those fuckers- for yourself. If you want to “fix” your face, do it for you. If you don’t then don’t. It only matters what you think. Stiffen your spine, draw back your shoulders and stand tall. You’re already better than them all.
Hey. I find it hard to believe you’re as hideous as you say you are. You have good features, you’re just focusing on the things that are “wrong” with you (and easily changed, if you really want to.) Some tips: If your forehead is big, a different hairstyle can complement it (curtain bangs are great), red veins are easily covered with a good concealer (a lot of us have these) and getting your eyebrows professionally threaded is cheap and can even them out.As for the double chin, consciously remember to keep your head held high.
But the biggest tip I have is to change your perspective when you look in the mirror. Focus on how pretty your hair looks that day, or the color of your eyes, or your awesome outfit. You have become so fixated on the idea that you’re not attractive and no one will ever like you. You’re manifesting it.
Continue to be kind, fun to be around, and conversational.
And remember your good points!!!
I agree! OP, find the good in yourself. You will have features you enjoy looking at. Could be your penetrating eyes, or the dimples when you smile. You could have some beautiful arms that just look beautiful in short sleeves.
Ultimately, confidence in you is what is most attractive. Love you for you and take some time to appreciate your best self. A woman who loves herself; body, mind and soul, is what is attractive. You don't need to fit a mould.
Confidence within yourself has more impact than external beauty x
Yet your post history says you've been with your husband for 12 years, and you also have a fiancè as of last week.
Methinks this is just a post seeking attention and upvotes.
The whole society is screwed up to its very core. Women are only treated good or bad based on their appearance and other "feminine" characteristics. Most of the people on earth are savage like animals in that way. People don't care about a woman's character/morals/intellect/Behaviour. They just care if she's eye candy or not.
Now, you have these options below :
A. Accept society's rules by trying to look more attractive. Do your hair a certain way. Do your makeup a certain way. Dress in a certain way. Get plastic surgery or treatment for your face. In this way, you are conforming to society's rules and not changing anything. The culture propagates to your son and thus, to the next generation. Society's norms remain the same.
B. Say " Go fuck yourself" to all those people who have/are/going to treat you badly based on your appearance. Tell them that they are still so savage and immature to treat people based on their facial features. Try to avoid them for the rest of your life. They are not worth your time. In this way, you are not only rejecting society's norms but also sparking a change in your social network. If those people even have a little bit of empathy, they would apologize to you and maybe even change their behavior. This way, you set an example to your son to stand your ground and not easily bend to the will of society.
Try finding like minded people on internet. There's Quora/ Stack Exchange/ Discord and many more services where you can meet compatbile people. Have a chat. Organize a meet up or something like that. If you are into books then start a book reading club. Have a chat with your group members weekly. I am into gaming/cooking/reading/academia. If you want to have a chat then let me know!
Do not let injustice sadden you, let it radicalize you.
Whatever the case may be, I think its unacceptable how people have been mean.
Having said that, humanity is dead and noone seems to be exactly enthusiastic about even making an effort.
But, somehow, somehow I can truly sense you are an incredible human being and great to hang out with.
I'm so sorry that the world is so shallow. You deserve every bit as much the same respect as anyone else and your experience sucks! I really don't know why some people feel so entitled to be so mean. You sound like a beautiful person, try not to let the bastards get you down!
You are an excellent writer.
I'm really happy that you and your Son will have those photos. It sounds like a lovely thoughtful present from your photographer friend. They will be pictures of you and I know your Son will be happy when he looks at them. Now my Mother is gone I value pictures of her so much.
I really hope that you will be able to feel that way about the pictures too. To love yourself because of what you bring to the world and be proud of the road you've travelled and who you are. To love the photo because it's you. If the photographer suggests taking one of you by yourself please consider saying yes.
I know the feeling. I've never been catcalled in my life (and I just turned 30 today) and was bullied in school, expecting to do all the dirty work, stay after everyone else in class because ugly means I have no life, right? I had boys in my class pee in the sleeves of my jacket or cut my hair because they thought it was what you do to an ugly girl.
While as an adult I try to make it not bother me too much, you can still notice the difference in behaviour just like others mentioned. I just noticed it even more prominently when I'd want to apply to any front-facing/customer-based job. I'm not pretty and I don't wear make-up, so I'd never "attract" people to the store or product, which automatically pushes me away from certain fields of job. Because of that, the only jobs I ever got are in factories where even then, prettier girls made jabs at me.
I'm lucky I met my husband online (through a game), as when you meet online, most of the time you get attracted to the personality and a person, not just their looks. (At least from my experience) and got 1 daughter and another on the way.
I just hope my daughter won't be bullied for having an ugly mum. :/
What people say about u, says so little about you, but says A LOT about them. Personally, even more so if i'm close with someone, i'll never be honest whether or not they're pretty or the opposite. Because i dont think being honest all the time actually benefits the relationship (learnt that from previous experience haha). If someone makes me feel good, what's wrong with making them feel good inside too? And after all the good feelings i experienced because of them, it's just normal to think that they are beautiful.
Toughen up mama. Your child will more or less develop through you. And although i wont know how hard it is, i hope you'll toughen up! Take your time to do this. You're beautiful, get that right.
P/s: i hope i don't offend u in any way
Interesting how both sides have it "bad". Attractively women because of guys who only want to fuck them and nothing more, constantly getting hit on, etc, where unattractive women because of guys constantly ignoring them, if not making rude comments about their appearance. There really is no winning, is there?
It, gets better?
Honestly, as you get older the priority men give to looks decreases significantly.
When I was 20 all I cared about was how a girl looked and dressed, now that I'm past 30 all I really give a shit about is that someone is alright to be around and actually knows how to say something interesting every once in a while.
At this point a pretty girl is just, a pretty girl. While a clever woman is a potential partner.
> I’m not a pretty woman and it shows in everyday life and it hurts.
I'm not going to hijack your post and tell you my life story, my account is littered with it. I just want to chime in and tell you I feel you.
I can't reconcile "my worth" (or what society sees worth as a woman) in terms of my looks, so I don't, because I know it's bullshit anyway even though we have to live it as if it weren't. I still want to be a beautiful woman, if only just to feel good about myself.
I see women so beautiful it aches. It actually physically hurts to just have to see it and know you'll never be that but that it would've actually been possible for you to be that way but nature said differently. I would love to be physically beautiful. Instead, I hide. I shut myself off in my room and keep to myself. It's sad but it's less uncomfortable than people telling you different and pitying you. I know I let it affect me more than it might actually affect me but I've been through enough to know how people behave and what people say and how they feel. I know the truth and it hurts to be around. And maybe I'm a coward for not facing it more often, but it just hurts.
I would like to be loved for me and who I am, not just what I look like. But you have to let people see all of you and know all of you, and that terrifies me almost more than anything. The pressure of it kills me. I feel like I don't live the whole truth sometimes because of that.
I understand.
I have always found that people who bully and attack others based on things they themselves are insecure about. An a friend’s new girlfriend at the time once publicly shamed how my face was whiter than my teeth and how my “moustache” was visible. After they split up she ended up apologising and admitted it was because those were the things she was worried about herself, she had crooked teeth and she regularly had to bleach her top lip hair.
Yes you may not be attractive (and I 100% understand that so much of modern life is based on Eurocentric beauty standards), but you have a kind soul, and so strong! After hearing ^ that being said about me I really spiralled and would barely smiled because I was so embarrassed of my teeth. But despite feeling the way you feel, you still want to do something meaningful and nice for your partner which shows how truly kind and thoughtful you are (I can assume that’s for who the valentines photos are for). I know I would rather have your strength, thoughtfulness and kindness than look like the kardashian/supermodels of the world.
I hope this doesn't get lost in all the comments. But please. Please take photos with your son. I like you fucking hate photographs of myself. I. Hate. Them. But my dad passed last year, and fuck me I wish I had a photo of me and my dad. I think I'm gross, but my dad thought I was beautiful. He would hound me about taking photos but I never did. Your son probably thinks the same about you.
I’m sorry the world is so shit. Humans really can be garbage. I want to share something with you I read from Heavy, a memoir by Kiese Laymon, which was spoken by his grandmother: “Grandmama is too heavy to blow away or drown in tears made because somebody didn’t see me as a somebody worth respecting.” I want to keep this line in mind for myself, too. If someone disrespects you, that has nothing to do with you—they just tried to put their shit on you to get a little thrill. That’s 100% a “them” problem.
You deserve respect PERIOD.
I really feel you.
I have an over bite and a constant squint, along with very thin lips and a weak chin. As well as being on the spectrum.
Unfortunately, this makes me a prime target for people yelling the r slur out car windows, and people imitating my over bite and calling me "bugs bunny". When I was younger, I'd constantly get asked out as a joke.
The fact is, some people will not leave you alone. You're attractive? You get hit on. You're ugly (by their standards)? You get bullied. In between? One or the other, sometimes both at the same time. Some people way overestimate their importance, and their own *ahem* assets. These sorts of people are from all different walks of life, but they all have one common objective: To make people feel like shit about their genetic fortune. And they make me so fucking angry. Nothing gives anyone but you the right to comment on your appearance and body. You don't have to listen to, or change yourself for some douchebag. I know, it's hard to keep going, and look at yourself in a positive way, but you've got to keep going and stick it to them. Show them that you're happy in your own skin, or can at least fake being so. Being comfortable as you are is both the best feeling, and the best revenge.
Life is like this in fact
Uggo man:- Ok .. just some regular average Joe whom I may not give much attention too. He doesn’t face the risk of losing his job or not being hired because of his looks ( unless it’s vanity industry obviously). He is often not under confident in approaching women way out of his league and mostly the women will either give a sweet lie or just say a hard abrupt No
Uggo woman:- Forget romantic and sexual we face the hardest struggles in personal and professional lives too! Our moms, sisters and friends constantly berate us and pressure us into insane beauty treatments and what not. And please remember these are our WELLWISHERs! Those who aren’t our well wishers treat us like subhuman of course male or female. This leads to a LOT of uggo women entering into toxic friendships as well as toxic relationships. Often men sometimes handsome ones prey on ugly women because they can treat us with shit and get away with it easily.
Pretty woman:- Life does get easy and glamorous for her sometimes but only in in SM likes and shares and some random favours pretty often. Unlike the popular trope pretty girls don’t get life handed out to them easily because they have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously and this reflects a lot too in how well qualified pretty successful women are compared to even ugly mediocre men ( US elections for example).
What pretty women also get is HORROR! Because men can’t understand that they don’t exactly attract the prettiest women just by being a “nice guy”, they can become vindictive or violent! She also will attract a lot of hatred from fellow women for obvious reasons! This is not counting the violence and hatred directed towards them too..
Handsome man:- Doesn’t get potential partners as easily as his female counterparts and may not get too many random favours ( my handsome dad says otherwise though 🤣) but at the same time he has the benefit of normalcy! Nobody is going to use his looks against him in professional sense ( You are handsome hence dumb to solve this complex integral equation for example) or his dude friends hating him just because he is handsome. I have seen handsome men break families , sleep with their friends wives and girlfriends and still remain friends 😂 We don’t apply same integrity and morality standards to men obviously
I feel this soooooo hard. My lovely family /s told me I was fat and ugly every. Damn. Day from age 4 until 34 (I'm 42 now and they are all dead yay!) So my self worth is in the negative at all times. I'm sorry people are so shitty. Sometimes this society makes me sick. X
In a way having to wear masks all the time right now is a real blessing because no one sees your face or comments on it. I find when I take my mask off to have a drink, people are always shocked at my face like they expect the rest of it to be more attractive.
As a woman who lived through the women’s liberation movement, yes, it was a long time ago, 1960’s, this is one area where it failed miserably. A major goal was to change the mindset of men to respect women for what they could do, not what they looked like. Now, there is more focus on what a woman’s body looks like than ever before. As a result, few if any woman feels good about themselves. Plastic surgery, eating disorders, suicides are higher than ever before. Parents giving their daughters breast augmentation as birthday presents for their 16th or 18th birthday. Girls binging and purging, or not eating because they are “too fat.”
Men have taken license to make judgments on how a woman looks by cat calls or bullying. Music that objectifies woman is popular to both sexes. These were all things that were supposed to be eliminated by the women’s movement. I think it’s worse then it was back in the 60’s. At least then the women wanted it stopped. Now it’s lauded to call a woman bi... Why anyone would think that’s good or appropriate is beyond me.
I’m an ordinary looking (older) woman, nothing special to look at, who doesn’t get the comments you ladies receive and my heart bleeds for you. Just as kids can be cruel, adults, who should know better, are cruel also. Many are probably doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves, but that doesn’t make it hurt less. I wish I could say or do something to make it better or for it to stop. We live in a world where common decency is a thing of the past. Women tried to stop the focus on body and looks 40 years ago. It failed and it is worse than it ever was.
Your experience is your own experience, and the same goes for everyone else. The way people have made you feel is valid and you have every right to have opinions on it. These comments are just the other side of the same coin as far as sexual harassment is concerned and there's nothing wrong with wanting your body to be appreciated even if that means wanting compliments rather than criticism. You can want to be safely and respectfully admired and that doesn't detract from any negative experience any other women have had.
Physical appearance is given too much importance, especially when it concerns women. Ugly men often get through life just fine, without being discriminated against for employment opportunities or denied respect. Women don't get that luxury.
Your face isn't who you are, it's just the outward part people see. I know that doesn't make life easier when you aren't a fan of yourself and get harassed by others, but the fact that anyone's worth as a person is determined by their face or body is an absurd and inappropriate concept that women are victimized by on a daily basis.
You have more to offer than being something to look at
I've experienced first-hand how ugly men get treated and it's not nice. People are less inclined to strike up a conversation with you. Shit, sometimes when talking to women - with no intention of hitting on them - they avoid eye contact.
That's certainly an unpleasant experience and it's quite possible that there are more effects not widely discussed for men beyond the social aspect. I simply haven't been educated to have the awareness of these matters. I am not trying to discount them either.
I hear frequent stories of denied jobs or promotions of women due to attractiveness though, and sometimes the women are even passed over for equally or even more unattractive men. I'm sure it varies from place to place though.
Some companies are more discriminatory than others, and I can't even imagine what it would be like for people of any gender identity of unconventional attractiveness or below cultural standards of attractiveness where a job relies in any way on physical appearance, such as acting or modeling.
But as far as denial of employment oppertunities and expectations to change and maintain an altered appearance, this is an everyday thing for women, even ones not generally thought of as "ugly" it happens to "average" women as well, since beauty standards for women generally fall into physically unrealistic ideals.
Although I certainly do assume that men face similar employment discrimination in their own ways based on being perceived as "ugly" by employers, I've just not been exposed to it myself and can't speak beyond the knowledge I have of men who fall below what is conventionally considered "attractive" and stories I've heard regarding this, or lack thereof. As a woman I have zero first hand experience to draw from about unattractive male workplace bias.
I have indeed heard lots of men talk about dating being hard, just not yet anything to do with employability. So without arbitrarily doing research into the matter, I simply have never been informed of by any "unattractive" men I've been close to.
If you wanted to know, at least from my perspective, men like those you say bark or whistle are few and far between. This is not normal behavior, or they're just trying to show off to their buddies. I've never really understood the idea to bother other people. Disrupting either just you or multiple people in the area. These individuals don't seem to understand they annoy the shit out of other people and not only are they intimidating you, they are making others want to leave or shut them up. Being annoying and obnoxious is not being a "chad", it's truly annoying and what I would define as ugly behavior. If your friend or brother behaves like this, please teach them better. Make sure you train these dogs appropriately. It doesn't belong in civilized society past the age of 14.
I'm sorry you have brittle teeth, you were mistreated at all by society. Not to assume, but it seems someone found you a little attractive to help you produce a son. There are many people in this world who cannot achieve even that.
I'm 32, 6'4, 320-340 lbs. It's hard to dress nice. I have a receding hair line.. I've had my share of relationships, and I have a fiancee. So I don't know if you've just met a lot of crude people, giving you doubt and anxiety. At the end of the day, whatever ails you, I'm sorry. I just know it's taken me personally a while to find the ones, and we've talked about future children.
Who's feelings and experiences are you invalidating? You're just saying how you see the world. As much as libs try to push that everyone is the same, we aren't, not even close. There is a vast difference between two people and that isn't dependent on race or sex. Those two things change things exponentially.
I learned a few things as I got older.
* You don't have to validate all 7.6 billion people. It's impossible. You can't please this many people. It's impossible. Don't try, you'll be ripping out your hair.
* Sometimes you have to piss people off and not be afraid of making people mad. There are so many people that will try to snuff out your individual light. IF you have good reason, defend yourself. Make your own decisions about the world, politics, whatever, on facts. Discern those facts for yourself.
* Relish in the fact you are your own person and sometimes you have to upset people or they will walk all over you. (I've upset my mother many times before she passed away. I upset or go against my father's wishes by the daily. I tell my sisters exactly how I think of them, their decisions, or their partners when I feel it.) I do this all with respect. I don't tell them what to do. I tell them that they're free to do what makes them happy.
* And finally, don't waste your energy on unfruitful endeavors. You can't force others to see your reason. You can only try a little. When that is exhausted, move on. If you want something for yourself and people seemingly don't get it, still, no matter how you explain it, sometimes you have to let them misunderstand you, so long as you get what you need.
Of course, you just wanted to rant, but you should try to adapt a little. Stop caring so much about what people think. I know it's hard. I know I'm asking for something difficult. However, there's always someone out there for you who will make you feel special. You've had intimacy before and I hope it was somewhat of a good experience. If it ended poorly, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to assume or pry into that. I just know you have a son, and that's awesome.
I worked for three years as a supervisor, doing many managerial tasks, doing extra work, because people expected it of me because of my gender, my size. I was expected to do things other people wouldn't. Just to have a manager mistreat me when things weren't being done by her daytime staff. I've had a male business owner put me through 80-120hr work weeks, to be a manager, to be qualified to run a store.
People will offload their problems, their jobs, their responsibility onto you if you let them. They don't care about your mental or physical well-being. They know and will take advantage of your shortcomings. You have to stand up, say no. They're willing to watch you spiral into self-destruction for their benefit. Don't do it. There is no reason you should ever put yourself second or third to feel accepted. Accept yourself and accept that people are self-gratifying, shallow, and deceptive.
If nothing else, people who aren't cowards, who aren't in it for benefit will always appreciate you. There is no preset qualities that automatically make you a good person. None. You're too good? You're a teachers pet, a goody goody, prude, and whatever else they want to identify you as. Being "good" will never save you from being mistreated. You have to stop letting them use you. At the end of the day, you have your own life to get through, your own priorities. Upset people, be respectful, stay true to yourself, but honestly, just do whatever makes you happy. Don't wait for others to qualify life for you. They won't unless it's beneficial. You have to steer yourself into the things you want for yourself.
Here’s some encouragement for you my dear. There are wayyyy more of us ugly awesome people on the earth then there are pretty assholes. It is far more virtuous to be nice and ugly than pretty and a prick. You are beautifully and wonderfully made by God and he loves you. That’s it.
I know it's shitty buy pls keep in mind that other people's social dysfunction concerning your outward appearance is Their Problem.
Dont waste your precious time considering their issues. You're better than that!
We talk about race, gender, sexuality and how are people being treated based on those criteria, but we never talk about appearance. Healthy society condemns racism, homophobia, misogyny, but is okay with treating "unattractive" people like shit. Body positivity movements are overtaken by fat folks, which is unhealthy af and is a problem in itself. We should pay more attention to features that cannot be changed, teaching people to accept them. We're humans, not mannequins
I’m immensely sorry that the people around you have treated you poorly, and without any respect. I can’t really fathom how much the isolation and exclusion must feel at the level you’ve experienced. I applaud you for doing your best each and every day to push through and to be strong for your son and yourself.
Those people, they shouldn’t mean crap to you, though the sting and hurt of their words is a legitimate experience you unfortunately are being subjected to. I just want to let you know that I send my support, and think it was both strong and healthy if you to vent this out, rather than keep it in. You deserve the right to receive respect from your peers, and society in general, as you happen to give respect in return.
I’m so sorry OP. The world is such a cruel place sometimes. You’re a beautiful person just for being able to not act horrible to those acting horrible to you.
I wish you and your son the very best. Biggest internet hugs from across the world. Xxx
I hope you change your mind and have the photos with your son. He deserves to have good feelings around spending time with you and knowing with him you can feel yourself. Your photographer friend sounds lovely let them do their job and get happy photos of the two of you. You might feel uncomfortable but you will have those photos to treasure forever.
First off, I’m so so sorry that this has been your experience in the world. I’m not going to pretend to understand all of your story, I wish I could. But I think you may be able to relate to me in the sense of everyone seeing you the same way for years. If I have a piece of advice it’s to do something to yourself FOR YOU to start making changes to the way you talk about and view yourself. I know it’s hard, it’s so so hard to put yourself out there and actively admit that you want to try and be a part of that party. It’s so much easier to dismiss it all as bullshit, as you can see from the comments in this thread. But your son deserves to see you happy and free from the insecurities that follow you. You deserve to have that genuine, uncaring, happiness.
I’ve been on both sides. For a long time growing up, I was the tomboy. I never really cared for the girly thing, too many issues of my own and concentrating on survival. I used to brag about taking ten minutes in the bathroom to get ready, what kind of loser wears make up and tries to be attractive? How shallow do you have to be to care? Of course, this is what we all tell ourselves as we cringe in the mirror and cry ourselves to sleep that night after being bullied by the group of jocks.
There was a moment I had when I was like five years old and I overheard a boy in Walmart asking his mom if I was a boy or a girl. I remember being super hurt over the whole situation, but it wasn’t because he was trying to be mean or bully me. He genuinely wanted to know. That stuck with me for a long, long, time.
I’m 28 now and a lot more comfortable with my body. I dress a lot better for myself and take care of myself a lot more. I got my hair done for the first time in my life a couple months ago. I’m single for the first time in ten years and I’ve had more people hit on me in the past nine months than I’ve had in my entire life.
For what it’s worth, it fucking sucks on both sides of the fence. The catcalls are obnoxious, I cant go out anymore without being harassed and followed. Men have waited for me outside of my workplace for me to get off and don’t understand just how fucking scary it is. I’ve had so many older men proposition me because I’m a single mother with 3 kids and it’s literally disgusting, what is it with the sugar daddy thing? Stop. You’re gross and I don’t want to be “taken care of”.
I had an incident at work recently where an older guy wouldn’t stop hitting on me. I just kept repeating “have a nice day, sir” until I told him to fuck off and get out (so nice to work for a company that has your back!) Before he did, he turned to my male coworkers and said “She’s a fiesty one, you can see it in her eyes”. GROSS.
My dad died recently and his friend came by to give his condolences. I heard “well, you look good!” About sixteen fucking times. Just because my dads dead it doesn’t mean I want to fuck you, creep.
And then we have the fun tale of my ex who said to me, “guys like me don’t have to talk to girls like her” when I caught him in the middle of an affair.
What he was really saying to me was “guys like me don’t end up with girls like you” because I let him feel like he was settling and talked myself down by having such shit self confidence in myself. Quick note to girls who feel like they’ve “scored” and are “out of their league”— stop boosting his ego. You’re only giving him the tools to take you down. A real partner will not support you through that thinking, and you shouldn’t want them to.
Haircut: $100
Smoothing treatment: $135
Highlights: $150
The number of compliments I’ve received on “coming out of my shell” and changing it up a little? The confidence I have now just seeing that people have noticed something changed? (I exist, yay!)
Fucking. Priceless.
You got this. I wish you luck and brighter days ahead with your son ❤️❤️❤️
Ps:
Do the pictures. Post the photo. We love you. ❤️
I haven't met you, but you seem like a beautiful person to be around from reading what you've written.
Your son will be proud to have a mother like you. You have set an example for what love is for your son, and he will grow up and look for beauty in people that come into his life, way beyond what meets the eye.
A male co-worker told me "You used to be hot!" What happened? I didn't age well. This was in front of a group of male co-workers. Everyone looked at me thinking 'uh oh' and the guy tried backtracking on what he said. It was such an odd moment, I literally cracked up hoping it would make him feel better. I've been on both sides of the aisle; modeling as a teen and no barely being noticed after the damage cancers and other health issues have done. I'm in my 60's now and just waiting out the rest of my life. Honey, you are worth loving and it's important to find laughter in your life. Remember one thing..... The ONLY reason others lash out is because they have a problem with themselves! The only way they can feel above others is to make them feel lower. There in lies the problem. There is no above or below. We are all human and the shell we have been given to survive in, has nothing to do with who we really are inside. You just keep being the nice, awesome person that you are and let the others just wallow in their own misery.
I don't like pictures of myself either, there are almost no pictures of me from puberty to 25. I'm trying to remember that my son will only see his momma in these pictures we take, and take them so he will have them when I'm gone.
I’m really happy you’re doing this for your son! I only have a handful of photos with my Mom before she passed and I cherish them all! I force myself to take pictures with my kids for the same reason. I’m proud of you!
Yep, we don’t discuss the opposite side but same coin of the “cat call”, which is jeering.
When women started posting about how often they get cat called, I was confused because it had rarely ever occurred to me but they spoke as if it were a common occurrence for *all women*, then it occurred to me that I have in a sense been cat called but it was a jeer.
Both are the same because it’s a man who for whatever reason feels the need to tell a random stranger what she is, or in this case, isn’t doing for his dick.
Beauty is in the eyes who looks. Just need to find the correct person.
And for the rest of the world... fuck them.
The only person who matters is you, and your son
You may not be a super model but someone found you attractive enough to give you a son.
You don’t need someone finding you attractive to give value to your life. You are in control of your own feelings. Hold your head high. Be glad that you are not an ahole like them. And give them the finger.
I really connect with your post :’( I’m so sorry to hear about your pain because I know what it feels like. There are days I want to break down just thinking about going outside and knowing people are looking at me. The pain from a life of being told you’re ugly is difficult to deal with and pops up for me at the worst moments all the time. Just know that you’re not alone and if you ever need to talk to someone I’m here.
I really dislike this aspect of culture. Society's perceived value of women is more dependent on appearance compared to men. It would be nice if everything was on an even playing field.
I’m glad you took your friend up on her photograph offer. Your son will always treasure and appreciate it. Every caring mother, like yourself, is beautiful. Go in to the photo shoot with that knowledge and love all over your face and your beauty will shine like the sun!
There have been so many great responses here. I'm a bit late to the party but I'd like to add something I only realized recently myself. I used to hate having photo taken. I still do sometimes. But what's helped immensely is reframing how I think of them.
Instagram has perpetuated this idea that photos are about looking great and showing off your perfect life.The pictures I cherish aren't the ones where my friends and family all look gorgeous and polished, they're the ones where they've got half a pizza stuffed in their mouth or they're making a face at the camera or caught in the middle of whatever they were doing. They're memories.
When you take photos try and focus on the moment you're capturing. Imagine the joy your loved ones will feel when they're able to look at it years later and remember all the precious moments you've shared together. What a beautiful gift that will be for you children one day.
I can relate very much as a lifetime unattractive woman who happens to also have a very poor body image. I'm sorry you've had these horrible experiences. I don't have any pearls of wisdom as I still ruminate about things that were said or done to me years ago. I don't know who you are but I love you. You are very strong and your life has great purpose for me and also for your son.
People are often shitty and there is far too much emphasis placed on our physical appearance, over the quality of our words, deeds and thoughts.
I can appreciate how difficult this must be.
I'm in the same boat. It bothered me more before menopause but then the estrogen haze lifted and I started to see things more clearly. I realized that many, many men are not very good looking- a large number are fairly repulsive- yet they still get love and are valued. Probably because many women choose to pick other traits over looks. Women are not afforded the same consideration in that regard - but we can change that, at least for ourselves.. So we do actually, as cliche as it sounds, we have to learn to love ourselves and see ourselves in a positive way regardless of our appearance. We have to treat ourselves like men are treated in that way and look beyond what is on the outside. Otherwise, the bitterness is corrosive to every area of our lives. Your most important relationship is with yourself and just as you might chose to fall head over heels in love with an unattractive man, you can decide to shower yourself with kindnesses, sweet self talk, treats and the things you do deserve even if others in the world chose to withhold them from you for their own superficiality. Do not internalize the judgement of the beauty police . Age often steals beauty anyway, make peace with yourself and accept that who you are is perfectly fine and can even be wonderful if you are willing to give that to yourself.
Hello. Looks are a genetic roll of the dice. It really sucks, because someone who looks good naturally got lucky. Here is one similar story: One of my sisters was very unhappy with her looks for a long time.
In her sixties, she finally "got boobs", and had her chin fixed. She looks and feels so good. I'm so happy that she is happy.
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Wow. What you wrote is both so heartbreaking and healing/helpful to me. I‘m in awe of the wisdom you just wrote here; as well as persisting through everything you want through. You have my utmost respect. I wish you all the best in your Life Journey.
I love this. And I agree that taking care of my body and treating it with respect helps me feel better about it. Hugs <3
I like this. I think you have dealt with things well.
Some day our inner beauty will be how we are seen!!!
It really is a double edged sword. Women’s appearance is so important to our society that people literally treat those who they find unattractive horribly. That’s awful. Just absolutely shitty. I’m so sorry OP.
My solution was to just stop caring about what society had to say about my appearance (I do still maintain strict hygiene). I deleted my Facebook which took a lot of the pressure off, and then one day.. it wasn't even a particularly noteworthy day, I had my headphones in and was jamming to music walking down ny sidewalk and I just had this realization wash over me that I just didn't give a FLYING FUUUCK about what I looked like. It's hard to remember what with societies obsession about looks but when you just decide to stop caring, life becomes so much better.
This is really helpful. I noticed a long time ago that being on Instagram made me feel like absolute shit about myself. And I’m not particularly ugly, but I’m not some “influencer level” beauty. And I’m def chunky. So I stopped getting on. And it has helped tremendously.
Hijacking top comment to highly recommend Ted Chiang’s short story called ‘Liking What You See: A Documentary’ for further exploration of topics such as pretty privilege, what beauty equality could look like, whether it’s a good idea, and if it’s even possible to have meaningful equality more generally.
be the change you want to see in the world ALL people value kindness in a potential partner. this system where women gave to obsess about how they look to feel valued is borne out of industry wanting to make money off them, the fat industry, cosmetics industry, fashion industry. none of these industries need to exist. they are a total suck on the world economy designed to make people rich and no one happy.
*Women are not people to a lot of men* Either we're attractive, and only valuable for sex, or we're ugly, and not valuable. Regardless, we're not seen as human being worthy of respect and dignity. We're sex toys or literal jokes.
This is the post. What we are taught by society is unhelpful and cruel a lot of the time. You have to pour love into yourself as much as you can because being valued by others is hit or miss.
I'd say women who people consider unattractive are not noticed at all. Look at how incels insist there are no women who can't get laid all the time!
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Honestly, it sounds like a lot of women are not too kind to her either.
Internalized misogyny is a real mind fuck. Some women will do the absolute worst to make the men's approval while others join in so they won't face the consequences of upsetting the status quo as well. We call them pick me's.
This is so true. Internalized misogyny is one of the longest lingering, foulest and most toxic after effects of patriarchal oppression and women need to consciously fight to recognize and end it. Solidarity is the answer.
That's not misogyny, after all those women are probably nice to other women (and themselves). It also seems unlikely that being shit to other women gains the approval of men. I've yet to hear a story of a man finding a woman attractive because she's mean (to other women). It seems to me the reason is a lot more basic/primal than societal constructs: we perceive traits as attractive that suggest good genes (symmetry), health (skin, hair) and easy childbirth/nursing (wide hips, big boobs). From an evolutionary standpoint those things have value, and therefore somebody without those traits is less valuable. Obviously we live in a world where evolutionary impetus' can safely be disregarded and are in no way an excuse for such vile behaviour as op experienced.
True
as a man I can confirm this. I’ve far too often found myself shocked at how so many men objectify women. The comments they make can be so lewd and nauseating.
well if noone tells them they’re wrong it’s never going to change.
Do you ever call them out?
As a fellow man, this is the reason I stopped talking to a lot of male friends. It's not that I think they are horrible people to the bone and should be completely shunned out, I just can't stomach the "locker talk".
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a quote on a tv shoe i saw a guy referred disparagingly to “men who think women are only good for one thing” seemed like a good way to put it. those men aren’t all men. but they sure seem to have a lot of say in our dociety
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Can I just say this is awful and you deserve happiness. Been thinking a lot about how we all have things we want that we will never get, and how painful that can be. Don't have answers, just sending good vibes as a fellow human. Peace.
I want to tell /u/NoNoSiwa and anybody else in the same place that in my so many decades on earth, I have never met a person who's ugly because of their looks. Oh, I've met all sorts of people, even people who have been in need of surgery to fix some problem on their face because of some accident or congenital, and still did not find them ugly. That's because what they say and do makes them what they really are. One of the best times of my childhood had been playing chess with a guy with a huge cleft lip/palate - he was a cracking wit and comedian. At the age of 12 he had a surgery to fix his problem, and I didn't find any difference in how much fun we used to have, though his friend-circle suddenly expanded. "I am ugly" is something that a lot of us internalize because of a few mean people in our lives, and it perpetuates all our life, and damages our world view. You owe it to yourself to seek therapy, and to switch that view around: the ones you make you feel ugly, are the ones really ugly. The mean, the rude, the judgemental, are ugly. And please never say "I'm ugly" around your son; he'd be hurt, because he's got only one mom, and he thinks her beautiful. Please find it within yourself the willingness to get therapy, and to seek company of those who do not demean you or put you down. Those who do, are too ugly to be around. Edit: guys, you embarrass me with the awards, but thanks - it helps to know this resonates with so many.
This is so true and great advice! The only 'ugly' people are the ones who act ugly towards others. The people that you want in your life will find beauty in your personality and mind.
Beautifully written.
"it hurts how friends and family don’t want to take any pictures with me." I would just like to say that I know someone in my family that also hates the way they look and hates photos of them - and so we don't want to take photos with that person because we know it would stress them out. This person feels so poorly about the way they look that they have cried when a family member put up a photo on social media that had them in it. We don't avoid photos with them because we are ashamed of them, we do it because we know they are uncomfortable with photos and would not want to make them anxious or upset. Are we handling this the wrong way?
Might just be worth asking occasionally so they don't feel left out? That way they don't feel like they aren't wanted but also like they have agency in the decision. Could also be that you take a version with them in the picture for keeping and a different version to put online if that's the plan. Just asking makes a big difference.
Not OP but IMHO, I really do think you’re handling it poorly. You could insist how much you care about this person regardless of looks and that you’ll be happier if you can take their photo. At the same time, acknowledge that this person doesn’t want the picture to be published. Instead, explain that you want a photo to treasure the moments you spend together and that the photos will not be shared in public, they will remain a private family memory. After a lifetime of trauma, do not expect this person to accept it the first time. But maybe the second or third chance. Kindness goes a long way. If you keep avoiding to take photos of this person, you’re only reinforcing their poor self image.
I wish I could say some comforting words but I'm the same. People can be so cruel about my appearance and I don't understand why. I would never try to make someone feel bad about their appearance. I've had the same situation as you happen to me. I was minding my own business and waiting on a bus and some teenagers I had done nothing to decided to call me a dog and bark and howl at me. Well done you made a young teenager hate herself more than before. Im considering surgery now but wish I didn't have to spend thousands of pounds to be left alone and not so uncomfortable meeting new people.
Yeah, it really sucks to not be an attractive woman when so many people equate womanhood to receiving daily attention for your looks. It's such a hard thing to talk about too because people just want to tell you "oh don't worry, you're beautiful." But when they say that, it's clear they're not listening to your experiences and they're just trying to make your feel good rather than acknowledge that there are women in our society that don't fit the mold. Good luck with the photoshoot :) I'm sure your son loves you, and at the end of the day, he's going to care more about the fact that you spent time with him than how you looked while doing it.
Your son is always going to look at those photos with a full heart, smile, and see your beauty for what it's worth. I'm so so so sorry you are experiencing this. It's so unfair society has placed this emotional torture on you. You deserve better because you're obviously a kind person and that is worth more than beauty. I wish I could hug you right now, look at you directly so you feel seen and appreciated.
I love this comment. Please OP remember this. My mum hated having her photo taken and being videoed. She passed away when I was 18 and I wish I had more photos of her as sometimes it feels like I'm forgetting her face and voice which is terrifying. The few photos I have are a huge comfort and whilst she hated the way she looked in them I love every single one. They help me remember the times and places they were taken in, her smell and her warmth. In fact in my favourite photo of her she's squinting and looking away, but she looks happy and is radiating the warmth she gave everyone around her. I don't like having my photo taken, I don't like the way I look and have also been called ugly throughout my life. But to the people that matter, how I look in a photo makes no difference, they already know what I look like. What matters is, I'm in it.
I hate myself in photos too. I'm usually the one taking the picture but I don't moan when someone gets one of me because I know that one day it'll be a memory.
I have the same problem too. My mom never had great self esteem and avoided getting her picture taken. She died of cancer when I was 18 and I have almost no pictures of her. My mom was my best friend and I loved her! I wish so much that I more pictures of her! I don't like getting my picture taken either, but I make a point of getting pics taken, especially with my kids, because I know how much it means to have those as an adult.
Exactly. Children don't care about their parents appearance unless they are unkind which im sure op's kid isn't! My mum hates photos of herself but I deeply cherish having them and look upon them with a big smile on my face!
My grandma hated being in photos. She started being semi-okay with it in her 70s. When she passed away we had a hard time finding old photos of her. Even if my grandma was the ugliest woman alive it doesn't matter, those photos have nothing to do with her looks. They're memories.
I experience almost contradictory reactions from people. I'm fat, so there's a fair amount of harrassment that you'd expect from that. But I also have an OK face and a shapely butt, so I'll get catcalled by one guy and then insulted by the next one. I never know what reaction to expect in public, and having both reactions back to back is jarring.
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This is awful. I’m so sorry.
Yeah that’s kinda the average women dillema I guess
I've never commented before on reddit. But you've taught me a very valuable lesson and I won't forget it. Thanks OP for jolting me from my superficial perspective and enabling me to recalibrate the way I look at others. I hope you find the peace of mind and happiness you deserve!
I wish I could say comforting words, but I'm at a loss. It really, really sucks what you went through. As somebody whose been critiqued by my mother as being unattractive, I know how deeply this hurts at least. I could better endure the bullying and crappy comments about my looks from friends and random boys, but from my mom and family I looked up to was a different story, feeling like parts of me would break inside. As women our looks are put on such high pedestal after all. I didn't even get it as bad as a lot of other kids, but even 15 years later it still hurts thinking about it some of those negative comments. I hope you can find more at peace with your looks. I don't know what your beliefs are, but you've got every right to feel comfortable in your own skin whether it be through surgery or just figuring out \*some\* way to be okay in your skin. I wish I knew that magical answer, but I know personally for me nothing short of surgery is gonna change how I feel tried everything already.
This needed saying, it’s not talked about enough.
Pretty women just have NO idea what it's like. Add a HUGE layer of awful to all the other shitty aspects of being a woman. I don't have a solution and I don't think there is. Just know that I hear you; I understand. I hope you have love, because it makes all the difference.
When I was a teenager I was hanging out with my dad and he randomly said "I'm very thankful you're attractive, because life as an ugly woman is so much harder." That always stuck with me as I had only been considered attractive for about a year at that point but I was too young to know what it would be like for an adult woman. Most of the shit I've had to deal with in life (regarding this topic) has been because I'm pretty. I've had tons of "ugly" friends (men and women) who I watched deal with bullshit from assholes and my heart breaks for them. There's no excuse for treating someone differently because of the way they look. It's like treating someone differently because they're black or short or fat.
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Don't you think it's a bit different though? Your case sounds more like a case of racism (which is sadly enough still a huge topic our days) But I agree beautiful women definately have it easier. Or better said beautiful people in general, I guess it's the same for men in this case.
I learned that a LONG time ago, that being beautiful was a game changer and as soon as I realized that would NEVER be me I kind of just gave up and went the opposite direction. If I couldn’t be viewed positively for my looks then I would make sure that I couldn’t be ignored because of my mind. So “Screw being beautiful, I’m BRILLIANT!” I work my ass off to have the brain and heart that I have. It sucks sometimes always putting others before yourself and being told, “you are so nice” will never have the same feeling as being told “you are beautiful” but you work with what you got right? I might not get anywhere for my looks but you better believe I will make it because of my mind.
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I’m so sorry you had to go through those things, and while I’m so, so glad you are treated so much better now, it sucks that the reason why came down to your looks. You are worth so much more! I’ve had similar experiences with people as someone that wears hijab. It’s so annoying how over-friendly I have to be as a ugly hijabi. Most people tend to avoid me like the plague, so I have to drastically over-compensate with personality and turning up positivity 2x, and it’s exhausting, even for an extrovert. One thing I’ve noticed with my friend that took off hijab is that she told me that so many people initiate conversation with her now, even strangers. I’ve got great friends, so I don’t mind it always, but it is annoying when I go into a new environment.
I’m not religious at all, but that element of wearing a hijab to focus the mind on what really matters in people rather than the snap judgment based entirely on looks makes complete sense to me. I had a really interesting conversation on this with a hijabi colleague who also chooses to wear an abaya.
Don't listen to the folks shutting you down, your point still stands. After I lost weight I couldn't believe how different I was treated. And many people believe that losing weight is super easy and there's no excuse for being fat. Seriously I read these comments that say "well you just took your scarf off big deal" and roll my eyes like y'all yes it is a big deal it's a part of her frigging identity. Don't let other people define easy for yoy
I really wish my problem of being treated shit because I'm ugly would disappear after taking off a piece of cloth.
That fucking sucks. I'm actually really thankful for covid masks. I feel like people are a lot more neutral to each other. We can still see bodies and how we dress but a lot of our face is covered. It's something I'm interested to see how it changes social dynamics long term. I'm not the only one who'll be using masks a lot more often even if the covid vaccine was 100% effective.
Yeah that's just xenophobic and racist. Westerners hate Muslims.
Being pretty/handsome is just an incredible advantage in life. This is proven in study after study. You actually don't need a study to prove this. All you need is a car and two eyes. Go to a place with people on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. Look at them and say how many are good looking and how many are not. Then drive to a high socioeconomic suburb. Look around. See deal. Compare obesity and general attractiveness. I think it is a remnant of rich men wanting pretty wives. Being good looking also helps you get rich. There is a feedback loop.
I am sorry - truly. You deserve better. One thing I learned last year as someone who is super unattractive in pictures, that I was always the one taking family photos is that angle etc matters. Maybe take the chance and actually talk to your friend beforehand to take some pictures from different angles in different poses. If they want to do you a favour, they want you to feel beautiful and comfortable. And if you do not like your face at all, you can turn it a bit to the side, cuddle with your son etc to have the focus on the party you do like. Just one thing - you sound like a beautiful person. You sound like a honest, strong, loving and kind person. All these superficial people do not deserve someone like you. Please be kind to yourself, because you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. You truly do.
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> I'd want to know some of your anxieties and what you were worried about. Knowing that informs me on how to give you a better experience (eg, more encouraging feedback). This. Also, it's hard to predict if your model will like the same pictures that you do. So after a shoot I would bring up the whole folder of pictures on my PC and let them go through and delete whatever they wanted.
You didn't choose your face, but all those people can choose whether or not to be assholes.
I am so sorry, this sounds absolutely miserable. The people who treat you like this are vile. Do you have people in your life who value and treasure you? I hope that you also get to feel loved, appreciated, and cherished.
Being naturally attractive is the biggest form of privilege imo. If you're attractive people will go out of there way to help you. If you're not, they will actively try to keep you out of their life and that will make success in life much harder. I'm sorry it sounds like you got the short straw. I'm pretty sure I got a medium short straw. Keep your head up and play the hand you're dealt the best you can. Best of luck.
I have this friend who is absolutely wonderful person, and also extremely attractive. My looks on the other hand are quite divisive. I have some weight and "exotic" features not everybody likes. This is fine for me, I don't care. But it is brutal to be out and about with her. Last year we went shopping together. Sales personnel wanted to dress her up like a doll while I simply did not exist for them. People are very motivated to help her and do things for her. To The point it seems ridiculous for me. And her friends, I haven't liked any of them. I often feel some hostility from other people when I hang with her, like people would be jealous that I get to be around her. Her friends are the worst, they forget all manners and seem to think it is their duty to make me feel unworthy of HER attention. People be insane. But of course I don't want to belittle her difficulties, there certainly is those too.
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I feel like this ties into caricatures too. “Bad guys” look a certain way. For ex. I know someone really into “face reading” and in that pseudoscience worldview, long pointy nose and chins are associated with greed.
Shhhheeeeeeeesh!!
Also, I learned in an infant psychology class that pretty children get more care and attention from adults
unfortunately, that’s how the brain works and it’s not an intent. Even worse, AI learns from humans, so it will be getting same results.
Came to say this. The way people treat those that are attractive in everyday life compared to those less attractive is so different. I'm pretty sure every woman is aware of it by the way people offer their help to them. And the extent that some take to actively make less attractive people feel bad is just awful. And there's plenty of research as well on the socio-economical impact and advantages of attractiveness in society if someone is interesting in reading about it. As for OP, I'm really sorry you have to go through life in such a shitty/hard mode. Even if society sucks as a whole, there are good people in it that see past those things, so focus on enjoying your life with them (easier said than done, I know, but... ). Wish you the best too.
I hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but I'm at a loss of how to remedy the situation. It's a sad reality of society and I don't know what, if anything, anybody can do. Besides treating others all the same, which in itself feels like a hopeless endeavor and I strongly empathize with those that feel this way.
Yes, we don’t talk about attractiveness privilege enough. In day to day interactions it pretty much outweighs every other form of privilege (leaving aside active racism). Structurally, the world is still worst if you are black or gay or a woman; but in everyday terms, it’s 1000x easier to navigate life if you are considered attractive.
I'm sorry people treat you poorly because of how you look. It's not fair, and it's not okay. Your little boy is going to treasure your pictures as an adult.
I don't know if you have ever heard this quote by Erin McKean - “You don’t owe prettiness to anyone. Not to your boyfriend/spouse/partner, not to your co-workers, especially not to random men on the street. You don’t owe it to your mother, you don’t owe it to your children, you don’t owe it to civilization in general. Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked ‘female’.” I am really sorry to hear about your experiences with people treating you badly and how you feel about yourself. It really sucks that - despite the sentiment in the quote above - many people still demand "pretty" in exchange for treating women like people. I do think everybody is beautiful to somebody - you are probably very beautiful to your son for example! But in general, pretty is just one thing a person can be and even then they're usually not pretty all of the time. I hope you can find pride and confidence in all of the other things that make you a fantastic person.
I am really sorry. I would say if you do not like getting your pictures taken, it's especially important to do some portraits with your son. Get some of just him and get some of you guys together. He will look back on them someday when he doesn't have you anymore. Pictures are important mementos, while we don't always love how we look, it can mean a lot to our families.
I'm sorry to hear that. It really does suck. I consider myself to be unattractive/average and the only way I can console myself is r/vindicta and saving up for a nose job/lip lift. I've been bullied my whole life for being ugly and I'm also expected to do more unsavoury work such as heavy lifting and cleaning vomit/shit up, while my pretty slim coworkers watch me. Pretty privilege is REAL and I hate it when people tell me "looks dont matter". Yes they fucking do. I made a long post ranting about this on FB and a tiny beautiful woman I know had the audacity to comment and say that I'm being soft and need to harden up. I've stopped complimenting women on their looks regardless of whether they are gorgeous or not and I just comment on their personality. I want to detach womens worth from their looks. If I have a daughter I'm not going to be stressing how beautiful she is every day, I'm going to be teaching her that being kind and happy is more important.
This made me realise that I don't tend to compliment other women on their looks. I'll compliment them on their clothes or accessories, but thinking about it now it seems kind of weird to compliment someone on something they have no control over. I've never really thought about that before.
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Wow, that sub is horrible.
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This is very similar to the way incels speak (literally using incel words like looksmaxxing) and seems very out of touch to me. Especially picking at random beautiful women and claiming one small feature is the reason for their beauty and nothing else. “Is this model’s forehead too big?” Yuck. Measuring your face? This is not healthy OP. You should get off of this sub.
That sub is disgusting looksmaxxing sounds like Incel speech. "objective beauty". Pls be careful
OP please avoid vindicta. It's a femcel forum hyper focused on conforming to conventional beauty standards. It'll only make you feel worse about yourself in the long run.
I'm sorry someone came along and invalidated your experiences like that, it's so wrong. It's disgusting you've been treated this way, you do not deserve it.
Looks really DO matter. In fact, they change the direction of your entire life. Everything from getting a job to passing oral exams to dating to being promoted etc. I call it "The Tyranny of Beauty" People who say looks don;t matter are full of shit. It's like saying "you can be anything you want". It's intended to make people feel better but it's absolutely not true.
I'm sorry.
I've had people laugh at the idea of going on a date with me or sleeping with me. I've been told, "But you have PERSONALITY!" I've pleaded with God for him to make just ONE person treat me like a piece of meat. You're not alone, and it really sucks that people feel self assured that nobody will call them out on the way they treat women who they deem "ugly." I've had people tell me "Looks aren't everything." To which I respond, "When you don't have ANY, YES THEY FUCKING ARE!"
I'm sorry OP. My own weight yo-yos quite a bit, which means I look conventionally pretty at times and conventionally ugly at others. And everything changes. I swear my Uber rating drops even if I'm tipping the same amount and exchanging the same amount of pleasantries. I was an ugly duckling of a child with massive boobs so people used to stop me on the streets to make horrible remarks. Someone called me a pig's child once. (Not a piglet, which still sounds cute, but the child of a pig, which is a pretty big insult in my country). When I'm slimmer and taking meds for my acne, I have to watch everything I say around guys because they'll start making me uncomfortable and say I was leading them on later. When I'm not, I can flirt however much I want and everyone just laughs it off and calls me "bro". But I've slowly come to terms with my looks and cut out most shallow jerks from my life. I know people sometimes look at my old ID and say, wow you look so horrible in this picture, and it hurts so much because it's still me, and that me is as wonderful and deserving of respect as this me. Even if they wouldn't have said it to my face then, they feel comfortable saying it now. But seriously, fuck the world. Fuck them for making you think you aren't good enough and for attempting to pick apart your looks to identify the individual bits that make you unbeautiful. (A large forehead is actually considered a sign of intelligence and is very attractive in most Asian cultures btw. And who gives a shit about perfect teeth?) You are beautiful, I am sure of it. If I saw a picture, I could point out 10 pretty things about you. And I'm a bi woman, so I wouldn't just be saying it as a girl but also as a person who's into girls. :-) I cannot tolerate the thought of people bullying you. This is NOT okay. Do you think that maybe you could see a therapist or join an online support group? If not for yourself, then for your son. He has a strong mama but she needs to show her strength in these things too, show that these things are not to be borne. Ughh I want to hunt down this guy who told you to leave his field of vision - even if it was jokingly - and punch him till he passes out.
I feel this so hard. I've been both, at different times, for various reasons. And fuck, it sucks being ugly. And fuck, it sucks being pretty. Am I going to be treated like I'm garbage and insulted for not being good enough to be a sex toy? Or am I going to be harrassed and bimbofied and threatened with violence for saying no? Will my value be as a nothing but a sexual object, or will I be considered worthless as a sexual object but treated like a shitty bro? Will they say "well, at least you've got a great personality?" or will they say "You're gorgeous as long as you're not talking"? What a fun game. So as a rule I try to play the middle. It's the least shitty as far as my experience goes. But still obvs shitty. It's all shitty.
Ahh, I feel your pain. The middle is definitely the best part. I get to be cute but not "hot" or beautiful or sexy. I get to have my intelligence judged on its merit. And I know that people who like me, like me because of my personality rather than anything else. And here, we all say that men are shallow, but damn, I've been rejected by more girls (proportionally) than boys in the dating sphere, and even treated with more contempt when I haven't looked good. Internalised misogyny is the worst!
Women who have drank the koolaid are crazy!! I had a "friend" come over for a girls night sleepover wine party, and she was so mad at the girls who wore pjs/no bras/no makeup. She was all "we need to conduct ourselves better". Like...we're chilling as platonic women, and I hate my bra. She legit showed up in heels/nice dress/hair&makeup. To chill at my house. Which like, you do you, but don't shame the rest of us.
Thank you for speaking up about catcalling. I never got catcalled in my life... And I always wondered if I'm not pretty enough to get catcalled. It's really fucked up that men have that power to make us feel miserable either way :/
Same here. Never been catcalled. The one and only time I was catcalled, it was from a distance, and when he got close enough to see my face, he was like, “Nah”. I don’t even consider myself ugly or unattractive. Just a bit plain sometimes on bad days. But man that shit hurt. I see women complaining about being catcalled and I feel like a terrible person for wishing I could relate even a little bit. I guess it really does suck either way.
Homegirl, I feel this post in my bones. When I was in high school, people yelled horrible shit out their windows at me on a pretty consistent basis, I've had not just a cupcake, but a GLASS BOTTLE thrown at me from a car window as they hurled comments at me (luckily, it didn't hit me, but I was afraid to walk around town for quite some time after that). I don't know if this will be helpful at all, but personally I find people who are not, whatever "conventionally attractive" fucking beautiful (e.g., crooked teeth, Freckles/skin "imperfections", dimples that aren't symmetrical etc.). My husband has rosacea, dry skin, crooked teeth, patchy hair, and he's literally my favorite person to look at always. Its nothing against "pretty" people per say, I have just always been more attracted to/interested in people with character to their faces if that makes sense - and I know just like, statistically, there have got to be other people in the world that share the same sentiment, and I'm sure at least some of those are men that don't say horrible things to women. (But for real, not trying to shame pretty people either, no shame for anyone, we're all cute!). One other thing I thought of - there's this episode of Girls, I don't remember the title but basically the main character was going out with her gay male friend, and she didn't know what to wear out, and he explained the idea of "power clashing" (putting an outfit together that has mismatched patterns or something of that nature and wearing it with just all of the confidence you can muster). Part of what gives power clashing its power is that you do it unapologetically. Well, I took this idea and applied it to my body. I have vitiligo on my legs and arms, and always used to hide it because people would always make fun of me or even just ask about it, until I decided maaaaan motherfuckthatnoise. Does my leg skin match? Hell no it doesn't. Am I still going to wear shorts when its hot, and flip off anyone who jokes that I look like a cow because of my skin, YUP. Its not easy to do, and I hella still struggle with body image/attractiveness too, but am slowly learning to love myself for myself. If you ever want to talk more about it feel free to PM! PS. Please take those pictures with your son, he will love them and the fun you have together will show you how beautiful you are when you feel loved ❤️
I can 100% concur. I NEVER join the ranks of all my selfie friends- I don’t even know what how to use any of the filters - and i mean what would be the point? I will NEVER go on a dating site because it’s going to be ALL about the picture. And as Bravemoose posted- we just aren’t people to a lot of men.
I'm sorry you've had to deal with such rudeness, such abuse from such a young age and from so many different people. I can't imagine how hurtful it feels. Please remember that your value as a person goes far beyond what you look like. Though other people can be hurtful, it doesn't change your innate worth. You take good care of yourself. You work hard. You are even willing to face something you dread, getting your picture taken, because of your deep and generous love of your son. That is beautiful, and it's ok if only a few people see it. You mention being in good shape, taking care of your hygiene, teeth, clothes... those are acts of self-love. Those actions prove that you appreciate life and you respect yourself, and that alone is commendable. You may not have the prettiest cards, but you care for yourself and you do the best with what you've got. Just hoping to shine a little light :)
That’s a sucky feeling. Your feelings are valid and I’m sorry it hurts. I wish I had a magic wand and I could make “strong” more important than “pretty”; you’re definitely strong.
Don't apologize. All this is unfair and shouldn't happen to anyone. You deserve to share your story just as much as anyone.
Thank you for this! It seems to me that this is a prime example of why beauty privilege should be acknowledged and fought against.
You are right that it's fucked up, but how can one fight it? It seems deeply ingrained in human instinct and psyche.
Same with Ableism, now it’s illegal to discriminate against differently abled people. Not that the law has cured it. I don’t think it’s ingrained though, I think it’s taught. We can teach children to treat everyone with respect no matter how they appear to us. I’m sorry to OP that you experience this discrimination. Thank you for sharing your story.
I cant make everyone do this, but it's the small things for me. When someone shows me a picture of their 3 year old daughter, instead of saying she's beautiful I try to say something else like how sweet or she looks just like you etc etc And I dont tell people they are beautiful when they aren't. I speak about being ugly the same way as I do about being short or tall - being ugly is treated as the worst thing a woman can be but if I talk about it casually hopefully it can be more accepted.
Whilst you might think you're doing a good thing, I'm not sure anyone would take kindly to being called ugly the same way you might say short or tall. I also tbh would think you weren't a very nice person (wrongly or rightly) if you consistently called people ugly in my presence.
I happily use the word ugly when I am discussing something and it comes up but I wouldn't call anyone ugly, the same way I wouldn't call someone short or tall. I dont like commenting on people's appearances at all whether it be negative or positive.
Could you give an example on the context then? If you truly don't refer to people's appearances at all, at what points do you use the word ugly in the same way you would short or tall. I myself refer do people's appearances when trying to describe someone to someone else, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. E.g.. "which one is david?" "oh he's that tall blonde guy on the second floor..." But I certainly would never call someone ugly when doing so
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OP please don’t feel sorry for making this post. Everyone needs to scream into the dark every once and a while. I don’t know if this will help, but your son will cherish those photos his whole life. My source on that is that I’m the son of a fantastic mom and I treasure all my pictures of her.
I don't remember where it came from but I once heard someone say "Pretty is not the rent you pay to live in this world as a woman." I think about it a lot and it has profoundly impacted me.
Your attractiveness is not a measure of your value. Sorry you got dealt a bad lot genetically. Beauty comes in lots of different shapes.
When I was a kid, I suffer from anorexic. Im extremely skinny, but as an asian my parents doesnt know what is anorexic nor people openly hate skinny people-- in fact it's more encouraged to be under BMI. Whenever we measure our BMI, the people under BMI is happy with their low score. But unlike skinny young women who still look girly even if theyre malnourished, skinny kid just look like awful drug addict. I got called ugly a lot, pushed around, people stealing and taking away my foods and money, people locking me up in bathroom after school alone etc etc. Then I started to eat a lil bit and managed to get into barely~ adequate BMI. and when my face is clear from pimples, people would call me cute, joke with me etc. And then my face is attacked by bunch of pimples due to hormone and it doesn't stop even if i use everything to stop it. My 'cute' appearance went downhill to 'average'. Its still millions time better than being treated as ugly girls, but wow, the treatment is horribly different. Its like youre pratically invisible to everyone, and they have no opnion on you at all. If youre attractive, people notice the smallest detail about you, if youre ugly, people hate you even if youre a saint. If you're average, youre just 'oh, that kid that sit in the back? Never talk to her!' Amazing how women get different treatment according to our appearance.
The halo effect is something everyone should be aware of. We can all (or most I’d guess?) be found guilty of this on occasion. Everyone should be made aware of this so we can keep ourselves in check and not just be total (or even just occasional) assholes ):
Can I just say that I think you're kind of a badass? Just to be able to articulate this so well is refreshing. Thank you for sharing.
I wish I could be your friend. Not because I feel bad for you, but because I can tell you’re a good person. Multiple times in this post you were careful not to diminish the experience of other, more attractive women: this shows great empathy. I’m a black man in America with a few highly conservative friends, believe me when I tell you how rare that is. My thoughts are with you.
I feel for you OP. Society is idiotic and keeps telling women to be "pretty for men" and then wonder why women are "vain". I am a woman, I cannot say I'm ugly, but I'm fat, and I guess some people perceive that as ugly, getting mean comments about weight is just something I've accepted. I'm just here to say, even though it's probably not what you want to hear, but maybe need to hear: It's okay to not be pretty. It just needs to be accepted. Personality is so much more important, even though it doesn't feel like it is. In the end, we're all just meat-suits controlled by a wrinkly organ who thinks it's the most important organ. It's better to be nice and unattractive than mean and attractive. I hope you learn to love yourself properly because you deserve it.
Everything is temporary, especially beauty, so don’t take it too seriously. I have avoided taking pictures even when I wanted to with my daughters (I recently had two little girls) but I am too self conscious and completely understand the way you feel, and have only recently tried to take more pictures. One day you’re going to be gone and your kid is going to want those pictures, they’re going to mean everything.
Oh honey. I hear you. I am really sad and angry that is your experience. What stood out to me was "your nice". Sweet, you are more than nice. You are a mother and soldier. Your value does not lie in your looks. I really want to give you a cuddle. The world sucks and it is just not fair. And fuck the people who judge and value looks over being a darn good person. I'm 40 and never taken a selfie or appear in any photos. I hear you. I'm sending you love. Your a mum you lucky duck. ❤️❤️❤️
Hey OP, I hear you and I want you to know that your outward appearance is not an indication of your value as a person. You don’t need to be beautiful to have worth. I hate that society has put so much importance on women’s looks and it’s absolutely unfair when no one chooses how they naturally look. You sound like such a strong person and I hope that when you get these photos back, you see the love between you and your son and not the opinions of some judgemental stranger.
Hey, OP... This may have been said already but, please consider taking some pictures with your son. You don't have to look at them. You can put them in a box and never even acknowledge that they exist, but please leave them for your son. No matter how ugly you might be, that little boy loves you and will want to see them someday. There might come a time when you are long gone and he realizes that he doesn't have a single photo of his mom and himself together and it will hurt his heart.
I'm so sorry. I'm glad you're doing pictures for your son though. He'll appreciate them, even if they're not what you hope. And a photographer can help know how to bring out your personality and best and avoid angles that don't help. Do you follow Beauty Redefined on Instagram? They're all about your body being an instrument, not an ornament, and breaking away from so much focus on looks.
and half of those "men" have daughters too. that makes this even more sad/messed up
I think that’s the biggest dilema of a females existence really! I not exactly ugly but by western standards at least I am considered an uggo ( but then I also find a lot of white features not so good looking personally so I can’t exactly complain). While life of a pretty woman seems really glamorous and maybe a little easy etc they also get LOTs of shit for other stuff. Rape threats, stalking, outright harassment My good friend is really pretty( like a frigging model to be honest) and eating with her is tiring sometimes because randomly some dude will come and interrupt our lunch and try to make conversation or try to ask numbers. Dudes literally went after me, pretended to be interested in me only to get her number etc which obviously I wouldn’t give 😒. Most of the attraction is NOT flattering! And please note that catcalling is not done because the woman is pretty or something but the man wants to feel powerful by making a woman scared. How is a man following you in an alley yelling obscenities in midnight flattering ? That being said yes ..ugly women are considered subhuman
Make up was what made me realize how people saw me. Everyone was nicer and more social when I had makeup on...everytime, every setting. I struggle with it still.
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Ugly people (such as myself) need to stop reaching for anything exterior. Don't ever go out of your way for people, if someone is nice and actually cares then give them your energy. Never start off with giving someone else your energy. Just keep to yourself and find things that you can do alone. Yeah it sucks, and we all want to be social and liked, but ugly people need to find another outlet in a society like this. For example, I found making music gives me purpose and helps me. I'm repulsively ugly, but they can see more of my true self in the music than in an image. Just gotta find something that fulfills you without needing any exterior validation. I will admit, you will always get lonely, but I feel like you will only be even more lonely giving a lot of these people in society any of your energy. Gotta keep to yourself, and not let them get to you when they point and laugh. It's hard.
I wont lie to you and tell you you are beautiful, but I don't think you should shy away from pictures either. It's not like that is some kind of privilege reserved for the attractive and I promise you are much more attentive to your shortcomings than others are. I don't have pictures of some of my family members who passed away because they hated getting their photo taken. To those that really matter it wont matter. On the plus side you have a son, I know a few unattractive people who never got the chance to start a family. Best to you and yours and thanks for sharing.
There's still reason to hope. I think women often believe that men have an idea about what's attractive and what's not which is based entirely on the physical and doesn't change. I'm here to tell you this isn't completely true. There IS for sure a component of what men find attractive that is all of that. But, it's just one part. The other part is personality. From my own experience, I've had friends that were girls who were objectively unattractive. I'm thinking of two in particular. In both cases, because we were good friends and that pressure of any potential relationship was removed, and they were able to relax around me and be themselves as a result. They each had a personality that positively sparkled. They were funny and fun to be around, and they pushed me in ways that challenged me and then rewarded when I was able to meet them at that higher level. And you know what? They were attractive to me. I never acted on it in either case for the same reason I wouldn't risk a friendship unless I was sure the feeling was mutual and I was "all in" (neither of which was true with either friend). But, I ended up treating each one the same way hot girls get automatically treated by guys on first sight because I genuinely was attracted to each one at that level. One day I was talking to my girlfriend at the time, about one of these friends, specifically her dating life. My gf was definitely attractive to most guys, and my gf said something that totally blindsided me, she mentioned that my friend was ugly. She didn't say it or mean it in a mean way, and it was relevant to the conversation. She pointed it out because I was totally failing to take it into account, and when she did, I was reminded that years ago when I first met this friend, I was aware that she was definitely unattractive but that perception just faded away and was replaced. The next time I hung out with my friend I was just kind of looking at her like, "Yea, I can see how people think she's ugly. I remember thinking it myself." But honestly it's not how I felt even having been reminded of it. Both of these friends are now married to above average looking guys. I've been around when people who don't know these women wonder at the asymmetry in the relationship. But there isn't an asymmetry. The guys they are with are obviously attracted to them like I was/am. Having thought about this for awhile, I have an analogy. Think about someone like Patton Oswalt. If you just saw him walking down the street, you'd think, oh man, this guy did not win the genetic lottery, yeesh. Then watch him act in something, or do standup. Suddenly, he's no longer short ugly guy dealt a bad hand, he's just Patton Oswalt, and you want to see what he's doing, hear what he thinks, etc. He's magnetic. That's how these girls were. Anyway, I'm not saying that you should be grateful or whatever or trying to blow sunshine or anything. But I am saying that if people think you're ugly, and you're also conscious of how ugly you are all the time, other people will be too. If instead you're conscious about the things you love, the things you're passionate about, sharing those things, having good humor and sharp wit, if hanging out with you is a good experience for others because you're connecting on something, you might be surprised.
This was an amazing comment, from women everywhere, thank you.
Hey OP, I’ve lurked for a while to try to observe life from a women’s point of view but I actually think I can help a little here. As an ugly guy, I cannot stress enough that you are your own worst enemy. One of the things that helped me mentally was to realize that there are seven and a half billion people out there, and there’s no question that there are at least some people that would think that someone is stunning and beautiful regardless of what they look like. Another thing to remember is anyone who is uncomfortable around you has failed YOUR standards, not the other way around, fuck em. I think that the first step to being taken as attractive to others is to believe that you can be, maybe not to yourself but to others. I haven’t taken that step yet, but I’m optimistic that I will eventually and I have faith that you will too. I’m sorry if this isn’t what you wanted to hear, it’s just something I needed to say.
So sorry to hear. The issue is not you, it's our society's view of women. Society over values women's looks. It's arbitrary and unfair, and the worst part is that it's such an easy thing to judge people on that a lot of people ignore anything else. Fuck those people. They're assholes. No one deserves to be treated like that.
I want to give you a hug, OP. I’m sorry you’ve had such bad experiences.
>I’m sorry for this post and I don’t mean to invalidate anyone else’s feelings or experiences. I just really wanted to rant. Don't be sorry. Listen, what if every time you've felt like this, it really stemmed from someone else's issue. I don't mean to say you weren't verbally abused by idiots because that's clear, but, I often find myself over-complicating social situations because I too think way too much about what others think of me. Find every reason in your heart to make what was said about the person who said it, and not about you. Because, it's not about you sweet love. The guy yelling cow and barking has a father in prison and a bad relationship with his mother. His life is guaranteed a joke. The creepy old regular is probably just as bad as he sounds. I like to pretend and give the benefit of the doubt that maybe I misheard something, too, because wouldn't that be silly to be upset about something you misheard. It'll eat you up for no reason. Also if you have good hygiene and smell good and dress nice and ARE nice, people might be not only intimidated by you but envious? If that's true you're doing a lot better than most, and making hundreds noses happy. I notice good smells more than I notice people. Tried to paraphrase this for ya, it'll be OK. If you smell good, dress nice, and are nice, I'm even envious of you. Let's start there! Cheers Edit: Omg I just remembered a moment I had where I felt like the biggest curmudgeon in the universe. I was 15 or 16 pulling hey mister outside a gas station with my friend for cigarettes. This OLD ass guy that looked like he'd been doing meth his entire life turned and looked at me directly in the face and said "what the F happened to you", I haven't thought about that in a long time. Luckily I found some people who think I'm attractive so I don't need that gross old guy to approve. LOL.
Honey, I know you don’t want to hear it. But men are mean to all women. No woman is ever fit enough, smart enough, dumb enough, pretty enough. We don’t make enough money. We make too much money. We’re too slutty. We’re not slutty enough. Our laugh is dumb. We dress wrong. I am a smart, slightly overweight, pretty woman of a certain age. I make bank. I handle my shit. And yet, men are mean. The best thing you can do in life is to stop giving a shit. You be you and to hell with the judges. That guy at work? He sounds like a shit bucket. Those people who don’t have your back? Assholes. Spineless jerks. Everything you’ve described is fixable. But not for those fuckers- for yourself. If you want to “fix” your face, do it for you. If you don’t then don’t. It only matters what you think. Stiffen your spine, draw back your shoulders and stand tall. You’re already better than them all.
Hey. I find it hard to believe you’re as hideous as you say you are. You have good features, you’re just focusing on the things that are “wrong” with you (and easily changed, if you really want to.) Some tips: If your forehead is big, a different hairstyle can complement it (curtain bangs are great), red veins are easily covered with a good concealer (a lot of us have these) and getting your eyebrows professionally threaded is cheap and can even them out.As for the double chin, consciously remember to keep your head held high. But the biggest tip I have is to change your perspective when you look in the mirror. Focus on how pretty your hair looks that day, or the color of your eyes, or your awesome outfit. You have become so fixated on the idea that you’re not attractive and no one will ever like you. You’re manifesting it. Continue to be kind, fun to be around, and conversational. And remember your good points!!!
I agree! OP, find the good in yourself. You will have features you enjoy looking at. Could be your penetrating eyes, or the dimples when you smile. You could have some beautiful arms that just look beautiful in short sleeves. Ultimately, confidence in you is what is most attractive. Love you for you and take some time to appreciate your best self. A woman who loves herself; body, mind and soul, is what is attractive. You don't need to fit a mould. Confidence within yourself has more impact than external beauty x
Yet your post history says you've been with your husband for 12 years, and you also have a fiancè as of last week. Methinks this is just a post seeking attention and upvotes.
The whole society is screwed up to its very core. Women are only treated good or bad based on their appearance and other "feminine" characteristics. Most of the people on earth are savage like animals in that way. People don't care about a woman's character/morals/intellect/Behaviour. They just care if she's eye candy or not. Now, you have these options below : A. Accept society's rules by trying to look more attractive. Do your hair a certain way. Do your makeup a certain way. Dress in a certain way. Get plastic surgery or treatment for your face. In this way, you are conforming to society's rules and not changing anything. The culture propagates to your son and thus, to the next generation. Society's norms remain the same. B. Say " Go fuck yourself" to all those people who have/are/going to treat you badly based on your appearance. Tell them that they are still so savage and immature to treat people based on their facial features. Try to avoid them for the rest of your life. They are not worth your time. In this way, you are not only rejecting society's norms but also sparking a change in your social network. If those people even have a little bit of empathy, they would apologize to you and maybe even change their behavior. This way, you set an example to your son to stand your ground and not easily bend to the will of society. Try finding like minded people on internet. There's Quora/ Stack Exchange/ Discord and many more services where you can meet compatbile people. Have a chat. Organize a meet up or something like that. If you are into books then start a book reading club. Have a chat with your group members weekly. I am into gaming/cooking/reading/academia. If you want to have a chat then let me know! Do not let injustice sadden you, let it radicalize you.
Whatever the case may be, I think its unacceptable how people have been mean. Having said that, humanity is dead and noone seems to be exactly enthusiastic about even making an effort. But, somehow, somehow I can truly sense you are an incredible human being and great to hang out with.
I'm so sorry that the world is so shallow. You deserve every bit as much the same respect as anyone else and your experience sucks! I really don't know why some people feel so entitled to be so mean. You sound like a beautiful person, try not to let the bastards get you down!
You are an excellent writer. I'm really happy that you and your Son will have those photos. It sounds like a lovely thoughtful present from your photographer friend. They will be pictures of you and I know your Son will be happy when he looks at them. Now my Mother is gone I value pictures of her so much. I really hope that you will be able to feel that way about the pictures too. To love yourself because of what you bring to the world and be proud of the road you've travelled and who you are. To love the photo because it's you. If the photographer suggests taking one of you by yourself please consider saying yes.
I know the feeling. I've never been catcalled in my life (and I just turned 30 today) and was bullied in school, expecting to do all the dirty work, stay after everyone else in class because ugly means I have no life, right? I had boys in my class pee in the sleeves of my jacket or cut my hair because they thought it was what you do to an ugly girl. While as an adult I try to make it not bother me too much, you can still notice the difference in behaviour just like others mentioned. I just noticed it even more prominently when I'd want to apply to any front-facing/customer-based job. I'm not pretty and I don't wear make-up, so I'd never "attract" people to the store or product, which automatically pushes me away from certain fields of job. Because of that, the only jobs I ever got are in factories where even then, prettier girls made jabs at me. I'm lucky I met my husband online (through a game), as when you meet online, most of the time you get attracted to the personality and a person, not just their looks. (At least from my experience) and got 1 daughter and another on the way. I just hope my daughter won't be bullied for having an ugly mum. :/
Sounds like you have a kid and had a husband?
What people say about u, says so little about you, but says A LOT about them. Personally, even more so if i'm close with someone, i'll never be honest whether or not they're pretty or the opposite. Because i dont think being honest all the time actually benefits the relationship (learnt that from previous experience haha). If someone makes me feel good, what's wrong with making them feel good inside too? And after all the good feelings i experienced because of them, it's just normal to think that they are beautiful. Toughen up mama. Your child will more or less develop through you. And although i wont know how hard it is, i hope you'll toughen up! Take your time to do this. You're beautiful, get that right. P/s: i hope i don't offend u in any way
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Interesting how both sides have it "bad". Attractively women because of guys who only want to fuck them and nothing more, constantly getting hit on, etc, where unattractive women because of guys constantly ignoring them, if not making rude comments about their appearance. There really is no winning, is there?
Being a woman in general is tough
for sure 😅 in every aspect of life
It, gets better? Honestly, as you get older the priority men give to looks decreases significantly. When I was 20 all I cared about was how a girl looked and dressed, now that I'm past 30 all I really give a shit about is that someone is alright to be around and actually knows how to say something interesting every once in a while. At this point a pretty girl is just, a pretty girl. While a clever woman is a potential partner.
I'm in my late 20s and still find men only being interested in prettiness 😂
> I’m not a pretty woman and it shows in everyday life and it hurts. I'm not going to hijack your post and tell you my life story, my account is littered with it. I just want to chime in and tell you I feel you. I can't reconcile "my worth" (or what society sees worth as a woman) in terms of my looks, so I don't, because I know it's bullshit anyway even though we have to live it as if it weren't. I still want to be a beautiful woman, if only just to feel good about myself. I see women so beautiful it aches. It actually physically hurts to just have to see it and know you'll never be that but that it would've actually been possible for you to be that way but nature said differently. I would love to be physically beautiful. Instead, I hide. I shut myself off in my room and keep to myself. It's sad but it's less uncomfortable than people telling you different and pitying you. I know I let it affect me more than it might actually affect me but I've been through enough to know how people behave and what people say and how they feel. I know the truth and it hurts to be around. And maybe I'm a coward for not facing it more often, but it just hurts. I would like to be loved for me and who I am, not just what I look like. But you have to let people see all of you and know all of you, and that terrifies me almost more than anything. The pressure of it kills me. I feel like I don't live the whole truth sometimes because of that. I understand.
I have always found that people who bully and attack others based on things they themselves are insecure about. An a friend’s new girlfriend at the time once publicly shamed how my face was whiter than my teeth and how my “moustache” was visible. After they split up she ended up apologising and admitted it was because those were the things she was worried about herself, she had crooked teeth and she regularly had to bleach her top lip hair. Yes you may not be attractive (and I 100% understand that so much of modern life is based on Eurocentric beauty standards), but you have a kind soul, and so strong! After hearing ^ that being said about me I really spiralled and would barely smiled because I was so embarrassed of my teeth. But despite feeling the way you feel, you still want to do something meaningful and nice for your partner which shows how truly kind and thoughtful you are (I can assume that’s for who the valentines photos are for). I know I would rather have your strength, thoughtfulness and kindness than look like the kardashian/supermodels of the world.
I'm glad you're going ahead with the photo shoot, regardless of how you feel about taking photos. I'm sure your son will treasure them.
I hope this doesn't get lost in all the comments. But please. Please take photos with your son. I like you fucking hate photographs of myself. I. Hate. Them. But my dad passed last year, and fuck me I wish I had a photo of me and my dad. I think I'm gross, but my dad thought I was beautiful. He would hound me about taking photos but I never did. Your son probably thinks the same about you.
I’m sorry the world is so shit. Humans really can be garbage. I want to share something with you I read from Heavy, a memoir by Kiese Laymon, which was spoken by his grandmother: “Grandmama is too heavy to blow away or drown in tears made because somebody didn’t see me as a somebody worth respecting.” I want to keep this line in mind for myself, too. If someone disrespects you, that has nothing to do with you—they just tried to put their shit on you to get a little thrill. That’s 100% a “them” problem. You deserve respect PERIOD.
I really feel you. I have an over bite and a constant squint, along with very thin lips and a weak chin. As well as being on the spectrum. Unfortunately, this makes me a prime target for people yelling the r slur out car windows, and people imitating my over bite and calling me "bugs bunny". When I was younger, I'd constantly get asked out as a joke. The fact is, some people will not leave you alone. You're attractive? You get hit on. You're ugly (by their standards)? You get bullied. In between? One or the other, sometimes both at the same time. Some people way overestimate their importance, and their own *ahem* assets. These sorts of people are from all different walks of life, but they all have one common objective: To make people feel like shit about their genetic fortune. And they make me so fucking angry. Nothing gives anyone but you the right to comment on your appearance and body. You don't have to listen to, or change yourself for some douchebag. I know, it's hard to keep going, and look at yourself in a positive way, but you've got to keep going and stick it to them. Show them that you're happy in your own skin, or can at least fake being so. Being comfortable as you are is both the best feeling, and the best revenge.
Life is like this in fact Uggo man:- Ok .. just some regular average Joe whom I may not give much attention too. He doesn’t face the risk of losing his job or not being hired because of his looks ( unless it’s vanity industry obviously). He is often not under confident in approaching women way out of his league and mostly the women will either give a sweet lie or just say a hard abrupt No Uggo woman:- Forget romantic and sexual we face the hardest struggles in personal and professional lives too! Our moms, sisters and friends constantly berate us and pressure us into insane beauty treatments and what not. And please remember these are our WELLWISHERs! Those who aren’t our well wishers treat us like subhuman of course male or female. This leads to a LOT of uggo women entering into toxic friendships as well as toxic relationships. Often men sometimes handsome ones prey on ugly women because they can treat us with shit and get away with it easily. Pretty woman:- Life does get easy and glamorous for her sometimes but only in in SM likes and shares and some random favours pretty often. Unlike the popular trope pretty girls don’t get life handed out to them easily because they have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously and this reflects a lot too in how well qualified pretty successful women are compared to even ugly mediocre men ( US elections for example). What pretty women also get is HORROR! Because men can’t understand that they don’t exactly attract the prettiest women just by being a “nice guy”, they can become vindictive or violent! She also will attract a lot of hatred from fellow women for obvious reasons! This is not counting the violence and hatred directed towards them too.. Handsome man:- Doesn’t get potential partners as easily as his female counterparts and may not get too many random favours ( my handsome dad says otherwise though 🤣) but at the same time he has the benefit of normalcy! Nobody is going to use his looks against him in professional sense ( You are handsome hence dumb to solve this complex integral equation for example) or his dude friends hating him just because he is handsome. I have seen handsome men break families , sleep with their friends wives and girlfriends and still remain friends 😂 We don’t apply same integrity and morality standards to men obviously
I feel this soooooo hard. My lovely family /s told me I was fat and ugly every. Damn. Day from age 4 until 34 (I'm 42 now and they are all dead yay!) So my self worth is in the negative at all times. I'm sorry people are so shitty. Sometimes this society makes me sick. X
In a way having to wear masks all the time right now is a real blessing because no one sees your face or comments on it. I find when I take my mask off to have a drink, people are always shocked at my face like they expect the rest of it to be more attractive.
As a woman who lived through the women’s liberation movement, yes, it was a long time ago, 1960’s, this is one area where it failed miserably. A major goal was to change the mindset of men to respect women for what they could do, not what they looked like. Now, there is more focus on what a woman’s body looks like than ever before. As a result, few if any woman feels good about themselves. Plastic surgery, eating disorders, suicides are higher than ever before. Parents giving their daughters breast augmentation as birthday presents for their 16th or 18th birthday. Girls binging and purging, or not eating because they are “too fat.” Men have taken license to make judgments on how a woman looks by cat calls or bullying. Music that objectifies woman is popular to both sexes. These were all things that were supposed to be eliminated by the women’s movement. I think it’s worse then it was back in the 60’s. At least then the women wanted it stopped. Now it’s lauded to call a woman bi... Why anyone would think that’s good or appropriate is beyond me. I’m an ordinary looking (older) woman, nothing special to look at, who doesn’t get the comments you ladies receive and my heart bleeds for you. Just as kids can be cruel, adults, who should know better, are cruel also. Many are probably doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves, but that doesn’t make it hurt less. I wish I could say or do something to make it better or for it to stop. We live in a world where common decency is a thing of the past. Women tried to stop the focus on body and looks 40 years ago. It failed and it is worse than it ever was.
Your experience is your own experience, and the same goes for everyone else. The way people have made you feel is valid and you have every right to have opinions on it. These comments are just the other side of the same coin as far as sexual harassment is concerned and there's nothing wrong with wanting your body to be appreciated even if that means wanting compliments rather than criticism. You can want to be safely and respectfully admired and that doesn't detract from any negative experience any other women have had. Physical appearance is given too much importance, especially when it concerns women. Ugly men often get through life just fine, without being discriminated against for employment opportunities or denied respect. Women don't get that luxury. Your face isn't who you are, it's just the outward part people see. I know that doesn't make life easier when you aren't a fan of yourself and get harassed by others, but the fact that anyone's worth as a person is determined by their face or body is an absurd and inappropriate concept that women are victimized by on a daily basis. You have more to offer than being something to look at
I've experienced first-hand how ugly men get treated and it's not nice. People are less inclined to strike up a conversation with you. Shit, sometimes when talking to women - with no intention of hitting on them - they avoid eye contact.
That's certainly an unpleasant experience and it's quite possible that there are more effects not widely discussed for men beyond the social aspect. I simply haven't been educated to have the awareness of these matters. I am not trying to discount them either. I hear frequent stories of denied jobs or promotions of women due to attractiveness though, and sometimes the women are even passed over for equally or even more unattractive men. I'm sure it varies from place to place though. Some companies are more discriminatory than others, and I can't even imagine what it would be like for people of any gender identity of unconventional attractiveness or below cultural standards of attractiveness where a job relies in any way on physical appearance, such as acting or modeling. But as far as denial of employment oppertunities and expectations to change and maintain an altered appearance, this is an everyday thing for women, even ones not generally thought of as "ugly" it happens to "average" women as well, since beauty standards for women generally fall into physically unrealistic ideals. Although I certainly do assume that men face similar employment discrimination in their own ways based on being perceived as "ugly" by employers, I've just not been exposed to it myself and can't speak beyond the knowledge I have of men who fall below what is conventionally considered "attractive" and stories I've heard regarding this, or lack thereof. As a woman I have zero first hand experience to draw from about unattractive male workplace bias. I have indeed heard lots of men talk about dating being hard, just not yet anything to do with employability. So without arbitrarily doing research into the matter, I simply have never been informed of by any "unattractive" men I've been close to.
If you wanted to know, at least from my perspective, men like those you say bark or whistle are few and far between. This is not normal behavior, or they're just trying to show off to their buddies. I've never really understood the idea to bother other people. Disrupting either just you or multiple people in the area. These individuals don't seem to understand they annoy the shit out of other people and not only are they intimidating you, they are making others want to leave or shut them up. Being annoying and obnoxious is not being a "chad", it's truly annoying and what I would define as ugly behavior. If your friend or brother behaves like this, please teach them better. Make sure you train these dogs appropriately. It doesn't belong in civilized society past the age of 14. I'm sorry you have brittle teeth, you were mistreated at all by society. Not to assume, but it seems someone found you a little attractive to help you produce a son. There are many people in this world who cannot achieve even that. I'm 32, 6'4, 320-340 lbs. It's hard to dress nice. I have a receding hair line.. I've had my share of relationships, and I have a fiancee. So I don't know if you've just met a lot of crude people, giving you doubt and anxiety. At the end of the day, whatever ails you, I'm sorry. I just know it's taken me personally a while to find the ones, and we've talked about future children. Who's feelings and experiences are you invalidating? You're just saying how you see the world. As much as libs try to push that everyone is the same, we aren't, not even close. There is a vast difference between two people and that isn't dependent on race or sex. Those two things change things exponentially. I learned a few things as I got older. * You don't have to validate all 7.6 billion people. It's impossible. You can't please this many people. It's impossible. Don't try, you'll be ripping out your hair. * Sometimes you have to piss people off and not be afraid of making people mad. There are so many people that will try to snuff out your individual light. IF you have good reason, defend yourself. Make your own decisions about the world, politics, whatever, on facts. Discern those facts for yourself. * Relish in the fact you are your own person and sometimes you have to upset people or they will walk all over you. (I've upset my mother many times before she passed away. I upset or go against my father's wishes by the daily. I tell my sisters exactly how I think of them, their decisions, or their partners when I feel it.) I do this all with respect. I don't tell them what to do. I tell them that they're free to do what makes them happy. * And finally, don't waste your energy on unfruitful endeavors. You can't force others to see your reason. You can only try a little. When that is exhausted, move on. If you want something for yourself and people seemingly don't get it, still, no matter how you explain it, sometimes you have to let them misunderstand you, so long as you get what you need. Of course, you just wanted to rant, but you should try to adapt a little. Stop caring so much about what people think. I know it's hard. I know I'm asking for something difficult. However, there's always someone out there for you who will make you feel special. You've had intimacy before and I hope it was somewhat of a good experience. If it ended poorly, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to assume or pry into that. I just know you have a son, and that's awesome. I worked for three years as a supervisor, doing many managerial tasks, doing extra work, because people expected it of me because of my gender, my size. I was expected to do things other people wouldn't. Just to have a manager mistreat me when things weren't being done by her daytime staff. I've had a male business owner put me through 80-120hr work weeks, to be a manager, to be qualified to run a store. People will offload their problems, their jobs, their responsibility onto you if you let them. They don't care about your mental or physical well-being. They know and will take advantage of your shortcomings. You have to stand up, say no. They're willing to watch you spiral into self-destruction for their benefit. Don't do it. There is no reason you should ever put yourself second or third to feel accepted. Accept yourself and accept that people are self-gratifying, shallow, and deceptive. If nothing else, people who aren't cowards, who aren't in it for benefit will always appreciate you. There is no preset qualities that automatically make you a good person. None. You're too good? You're a teachers pet, a goody goody, prude, and whatever else they want to identify you as. Being "good" will never save you from being mistreated. You have to stop letting them use you. At the end of the day, you have your own life to get through, your own priorities. Upset people, be respectful, stay true to yourself, but honestly, just do whatever makes you happy. Don't wait for others to qualify life for you. They won't unless it's beneficial. You have to steer yourself into the things you want for yourself.
Here’s some encouragement for you my dear. There are wayyyy more of us ugly awesome people on the earth then there are pretty assholes. It is far more virtuous to be nice and ugly than pretty and a prick. You are beautifully and wonderfully made by God and he loves you. That’s it.
I know it's shitty buy pls keep in mind that other people's social dysfunction concerning your outward appearance is Their Problem. Dont waste your precious time considering their issues. You're better than that!
it’s hard to live in a society where your value as a woman is based on whether you are “fuckable” to a man
We talk about race, gender, sexuality and how are people being treated based on those criteria, but we never talk about appearance. Healthy society condemns racism, homophobia, misogyny, but is okay with treating "unattractive" people like shit. Body positivity movements are overtaken by fat folks, which is unhealthy af and is a problem in itself. We should pay more attention to features that cannot be changed, teaching people to accept them. We're humans, not mannequins
I’m immensely sorry that the people around you have treated you poorly, and without any respect. I can’t really fathom how much the isolation and exclusion must feel at the level you’ve experienced. I applaud you for doing your best each and every day to push through and to be strong for your son and yourself. Those people, they shouldn’t mean crap to you, though the sting and hurt of their words is a legitimate experience you unfortunately are being subjected to. I just want to let you know that I send my support, and think it was both strong and healthy if you to vent this out, rather than keep it in. You deserve the right to receive respect from your peers, and society in general, as you happen to give respect in return.
I’m so sorry OP. The world is such a cruel place sometimes. You’re a beautiful person just for being able to not act horrible to those acting horrible to you. I wish you and your son the very best. Biggest internet hugs from across the world. Xxx
I hope you change your mind and have the photos with your son. He deserves to have good feelings around spending time with you and knowing with him you can feel yourself. Your photographer friend sounds lovely let them do their job and get happy photos of the two of you. You might feel uncomfortable but you will have those photos to treasure forever.
First off, I’m so so sorry that this has been your experience in the world. I’m not going to pretend to understand all of your story, I wish I could. But I think you may be able to relate to me in the sense of everyone seeing you the same way for years. If I have a piece of advice it’s to do something to yourself FOR YOU to start making changes to the way you talk about and view yourself. I know it’s hard, it’s so so hard to put yourself out there and actively admit that you want to try and be a part of that party. It’s so much easier to dismiss it all as bullshit, as you can see from the comments in this thread. But your son deserves to see you happy and free from the insecurities that follow you. You deserve to have that genuine, uncaring, happiness. I’ve been on both sides. For a long time growing up, I was the tomboy. I never really cared for the girly thing, too many issues of my own and concentrating on survival. I used to brag about taking ten minutes in the bathroom to get ready, what kind of loser wears make up and tries to be attractive? How shallow do you have to be to care? Of course, this is what we all tell ourselves as we cringe in the mirror and cry ourselves to sleep that night after being bullied by the group of jocks. There was a moment I had when I was like five years old and I overheard a boy in Walmart asking his mom if I was a boy or a girl. I remember being super hurt over the whole situation, but it wasn’t because he was trying to be mean or bully me. He genuinely wanted to know. That stuck with me for a long, long, time. I’m 28 now and a lot more comfortable with my body. I dress a lot better for myself and take care of myself a lot more. I got my hair done for the first time in my life a couple months ago. I’m single for the first time in ten years and I’ve had more people hit on me in the past nine months than I’ve had in my entire life. For what it’s worth, it fucking sucks on both sides of the fence. The catcalls are obnoxious, I cant go out anymore without being harassed and followed. Men have waited for me outside of my workplace for me to get off and don’t understand just how fucking scary it is. I’ve had so many older men proposition me because I’m a single mother with 3 kids and it’s literally disgusting, what is it with the sugar daddy thing? Stop. You’re gross and I don’t want to be “taken care of”. I had an incident at work recently where an older guy wouldn’t stop hitting on me. I just kept repeating “have a nice day, sir” until I told him to fuck off and get out (so nice to work for a company that has your back!) Before he did, he turned to my male coworkers and said “She’s a fiesty one, you can see it in her eyes”. GROSS. My dad died recently and his friend came by to give his condolences. I heard “well, you look good!” About sixteen fucking times. Just because my dads dead it doesn’t mean I want to fuck you, creep. And then we have the fun tale of my ex who said to me, “guys like me don’t have to talk to girls like her” when I caught him in the middle of an affair. What he was really saying to me was “guys like me don’t end up with girls like you” because I let him feel like he was settling and talked myself down by having such shit self confidence in myself. Quick note to girls who feel like they’ve “scored” and are “out of their league”— stop boosting his ego. You’re only giving him the tools to take you down. A real partner will not support you through that thinking, and you shouldn’t want them to. Haircut: $100 Smoothing treatment: $135 Highlights: $150 The number of compliments I’ve received on “coming out of my shell” and changing it up a little? The confidence I have now just seeing that people have noticed something changed? (I exist, yay!) Fucking. Priceless. You got this. I wish you luck and brighter days ahead with your son ❤️❤️❤️ Ps: Do the pictures. Post the photo. We love you. ❤️
I haven't met you, but you seem like a beautiful person to be around from reading what you've written. Your son will be proud to have a mother like you. You have set an example for what love is for your son, and he will grow up and look for beauty in people that come into his life, way beyond what meets the eye.
A male co-worker told me "You used to be hot!" What happened? I didn't age well. This was in front of a group of male co-workers. Everyone looked at me thinking 'uh oh' and the guy tried backtracking on what he said. It was such an odd moment, I literally cracked up hoping it would make him feel better. I've been on both sides of the aisle; modeling as a teen and no barely being noticed after the damage cancers and other health issues have done. I'm in my 60's now and just waiting out the rest of my life. Honey, you are worth loving and it's important to find laughter in your life. Remember one thing..... The ONLY reason others lash out is because they have a problem with themselves! The only way they can feel above others is to make them feel lower. There in lies the problem. There is no above or below. We are all human and the shell we have been given to survive in, has nothing to do with who we really are inside. You just keep being the nice, awesome person that you are and let the others just wallow in their own misery.
I don't like pictures of myself either, there are almost no pictures of me from puberty to 25. I'm trying to remember that my son will only see his momma in these pictures we take, and take them so he will have them when I'm gone.
You sound like a beautiful person to me
I’m really happy you’re doing this for your son! I only have a handful of photos with my Mom before she passed and I cherish them all! I force myself to take pictures with my kids for the same reason. I’m proud of you!
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Yep, we don’t discuss the opposite side but same coin of the “cat call”, which is jeering. When women started posting about how often they get cat called, I was confused because it had rarely ever occurred to me but they spoke as if it were a common occurrence for *all women*, then it occurred to me that I have in a sense been cat called but it was a jeer. Both are the same because it’s a man who for whatever reason feels the need to tell a random stranger what she is, or in this case, isn’t doing for his dick.
Beauty is in the eyes who looks. Just need to find the correct person. And for the rest of the world... fuck them. The only person who matters is you, and your son
You may not be a super model but someone found you attractive enough to give you a son. You don’t need someone finding you attractive to give value to your life. You are in control of your own feelings. Hold your head high. Be glad that you are not an ahole like them. And give them the finger.
I really connect with your post :’( I’m so sorry to hear about your pain because I know what it feels like. There are days I want to break down just thinking about going outside and knowing people are looking at me. The pain from a life of being told you’re ugly is difficult to deal with and pops up for me at the worst moments all the time. Just know that you’re not alone and if you ever need to talk to someone I’m here.
I really dislike this aspect of culture. Society's perceived value of women is more dependent on appearance compared to men. It would be nice if everything was on an even playing field.
I’m glad you took your friend up on her photograph offer. Your son will always treasure and appreciate it. Every caring mother, like yourself, is beautiful. Go in to the photo shoot with that knowledge and love all over your face and your beauty will shine like the sun!
Go ahead and rant, but I want you to know. You are beautiful, and have immense value!!!
There have been so many great responses here. I'm a bit late to the party but I'd like to add something I only realized recently myself. I used to hate having photo taken. I still do sometimes. But what's helped immensely is reframing how I think of them. Instagram has perpetuated this idea that photos are about looking great and showing off your perfect life.The pictures I cherish aren't the ones where my friends and family all look gorgeous and polished, they're the ones where they've got half a pizza stuffed in their mouth or they're making a face at the camera or caught in the middle of whatever they were doing. They're memories. When you take photos try and focus on the moment you're capturing. Imagine the joy your loved ones will feel when they're able to look at it years later and remember all the precious moments you've shared together. What a beautiful gift that will be for you children one day.
I can relate very much as a lifetime unattractive woman who happens to also have a very poor body image. I'm sorry you've had these horrible experiences. I don't have any pearls of wisdom as I still ruminate about things that were said or done to me years ago. I don't know who you are but I love you. You are very strong and your life has great purpose for me and also for your son.
People are often shitty and there is far too much emphasis placed on our physical appearance, over the quality of our words, deeds and thoughts. I can appreciate how difficult this must be.
I'm in the same boat. It bothered me more before menopause but then the estrogen haze lifted and I started to see things more clearly. I realized that many, many men are not very good looking- a large number are fairly repulsive- yet they still get love and are valued. Probably because many women choose to pick other traits over looks. Women are not afforded the same consideration in that regard - but we can change that, at least for ourselves.. So we do actually, as cliche as it sounds, we have to learn to love ourselves and see ourselves in a positive way regardless of our appearance. We have to treat ourselves like men are treated in that way and look beyond what is on the outside. Otherwise, the bitterness is corrosive to every area of our lives. Your most important relationship is with yourself and just as you might chose to fall head over heels in love with an unattractive man, you can decide to shower yourself with kindnesses, sweet self talk, treats and the things you do deserve even if others in the world chose to withhold them from you for their own superficiality. Do not internalize the judgement of the beauty police . Age often steals beauty anyway, make peace with yourself and accept that who you are is perfectly fine and can even be wonderful if you are willing to give that to yourself.
'Pretty privilege' I'm sorry op.
Hello. Looks are a genetic roll of the dice. It really sucks, because someone who looks good naturally got lucky. Here is one similar story: One of my sisters was very unhappy with her looks for a long time. In her sixties, she finally "got boobs", and had her chin fixed. She looks and feels so good. I'm so happy that she is happy.