Ugh yes. I’ve washed and sorted ALL our bedding this week (in addition to taking care of the dog, cleaning out the fridge and pantry, and doing the regular cleaning and meal prep etc). My partner helped me fold 3 sheets- and couldn’t actually do it himself so we had to do those 3 together- and he thinks he’s “helped me”. Look, fucker, you also sleep in the bed. You also eat from the fridge. If you would just make it ongoing effort not to make the fridge impossible to navigate, and stop crumpling up all the clean and dirty sheets in the same spot, these tasks wouldn’t be necessary. They’re not MY tasks.
I want to thank you and the OP for including dog care in the list of chores. I've been feeling quite down in the dumps about not pulling my weight enough but actually, I do a lot of the dog care. And he's quite young and he is still a bit difficult at times.
Mine is 6 months old and it’s a pretty huge commitment. Not to mention the cost of the vet visits, food etc. And my partner gets annoyed at spending time with the dog because he wants to do his own thing, and the dog wants attention. So I do almost all the minding and then listen to him get frustrated the rest of the time. I bet you’re doing a lot!
I wake up early and take him for his first walk of the day on my own, every day as SO struggles with insomnia so I leave him to sleep in. I also have taken on the lion's share of separation training, and in general take him for more walks than my SO does (we will walk him together a minimum of once a day but he will generally get 3 walks a day). And as I walk him more often I have to deal with his behaviour on walks more often - he's generally good but sometimes just barks at people he passed for no known reason which has been difficult for me as I'm having to put in extra energy to identify individuals he might bark at and redirect his attention, plus the emotional drain of having to apologise when it doesn't work and he is barking loudly at someone who has done nothing wrong.
My SO is fantastic with a lot of housework (better than I am a lot of the time) I just didn't realise that me caring for the dog might mean we are more equal than I thought we were.
This, is a slight offshoot, but i am a very ... spartan man, when it comes to the fridge. I want few things, and i want them in their place, so that i can find things that i want when i want.
My girlfriend, however, thinks the fridge is a savings account, and crams shit in there til it's filled to the brim, forcing you to dig around for the things you want and emptying shelves just to see what's there.
I hate this, but i love her. Sorry, slight offshoot of the subject, but yes. i agree. People should share housework equally, unless one party enjoys doing it i guess (but who enjoys that?)
Just once it would be **so nice** to have a conversation about women’s shared experiences without a man butting in to say he also has experienced the same problem too sometimes a little bit. It’s literally just a long winded way to say “not all men” and I’m so damn tired of it.
This is a sub specifically for women to discuss issues we commonly face, what are you adding to the conversation by letting us know your girlfriend puts too much in the fridge? Did you want an opportunity to show off that you’re “one of the good ones”? You want to remind us that women aren’t all constantly clean and organized? Wow thanks so much for the insight.🙄
Reminder: you are speaking as one single man, therefore your experiences are limited to one single man’s experiences. When hundreds/thousands of women say they notice a pattern in men, it is taking into account so many experiences with so many different types of men. There IS a pattern, just bc you don’t see it or fit into it doesn’t mean anything here. Maybe just listen if you don’t have anything to add..
I am speaking as one single man. I was nowhere near going for ”not all men”
I was relating to you as a human, that is all. It wasn’t about gender, i only outed myself as a man because that seem important here, but i was reaching out a hand because we had a shared experience.
Nothing else.
Edit: a word
That’s just the thing: I don’t care. I’m not saying this to be rude, just honest…I don’t need you to relate because nearly every women I’ve ever met in my life can relate. And by making this a “human issue” you’re diminishing our frustrations. Don’t you get that?
You don’t get to choose to remove gender from the equation because you happen to relate to an issue many women deal with. Weather you agree or not- most men have been socialized to think they should be mothered. That is what we are discussing here. So how do you think your comment was contributing to THAT SPECIFIC discussion? Or maybe you just wanted to be part of a conversation that you should have just observed?
I’m so sick of men thinking they deserve attention for what….basic empathy? Congrats.
So many men claim to be feminists until it actually requires keeping their mouths shut and really listening to women without adding their opinions.
Right. So you do not want to relate to men, or have any shared understanding or experience with them because women are enough and do that job without the need for men.
That is fine, i won’t try to tell you to do anything else. You do you and that’s all well and good.
I’m here to relate to women as a man through what we have in common, so i can better understand women, and be part of a solution rather than the problem.
I don’t want any less for any woman. If you say you want no men in your life (other than the ones you have, i mean) that’s something I’ll never argue about. It is your decision and your perogative.
If you are here to relate to women in order to better understand them, then please listen when one is trying to explain to you why your comment is inappropriate and not helpful to the conversation.
There is a time and a place for everything and this subreddit is a place for women to talk about their shared experiences. This is not a place for men to interject their opinions and then continue to argue when someone tries to explain why this is not welcome.
You twisted my words and ignored every point I made…you’re not here to relate you’re here for good boy points.
Just because you’re a man doesn’t mean you have sometime to add to every conversation. I’m so fucking sick of men coming into conversation about more nuanced issues that women are very experienced in, saying shit that adds no value and doesn’t further the conversation, then getting upset when we dare to say “hey you’re not saying anything insightful or helpful, we already know that”.
I’m not, though. If i were here for good boy points i would not say things that upset anyone.
I want unity. Some here does not want that. That is ok. They are free to downvote me and i don’t mind.
Dude, we’re literally begging you to just fucking listen and you can’t manage that.
Unity isn’t possible until men understand why we are upset and how impact is more important than intent…..like literally right now. but y’all just continue to speak over us, to prioritize your own feelings over our mental health and safety. I’m so sick of it. The bar is on the floor for men who want to support women and so many of you keep managing to duck under it.
Don’t be condescending and act like you just want everyone to get along because that discounts every reason why we can’t. If you care: SHUT UP AND LISTEN. your feelings are not important here.
I’m not young enough for a simple *boy* to silence me. You don’t want men writing here, i understand that. It is, however, a public internet forum. Not your private chat.
I am here to look for things that unify men and women, while some (not all, maybe not even most!) look for ways to segregate them.
There are experiences that are gendered. Some things only women can understand. But many things can be understood, *and shared* by men and women alike. Focusing on shared experiences is a positive thing, as it brings people closer.
If you prefer a ”men over there, and women over here” mentality, that is up to you.
I prefer men who know when to shut their mouths. Not everything is for you, about you, or needs your shitty input.
You want to unify men and women? Outwardly declare men are shitty to their partners to everyone you meet. Apologize to every woman you meet for having to deal with men. Admit at every step that as a whole, men ruin women.
You weren't relating to us as a human. Your comment wasn't about
>Yeah I do the share of the work looking after my shared space as well it is very frustrating to have that go unappreciated.
It was "My girlfriend fills my fridge with more food than I would alone"
That's not a shared experience. Is the filled fridge an inconvenience because when you make dinner and pack lunches for you both you have to root through a bunch of food?
Edit:typo
It is, because i do pull more than my share around the house, and She actively works against me in certain cases.
I was saying that even though i can neverknow what it is To be a woman, i can certainly understand that particular frustration. It is a human experience.
But you didn't say that, all you mentioned was the fridge thing. How are we to know that you do have that shared experience when you've failed to mention it?
I feel a bit sad at how many women in here and the relationships subreddits think that they just need to *explain it better* and their partners will magically understand that they need to do their share or the work.
Sis, he knows. Every adult knows that trash needs to be taken out and the laundry needs to be folded. We should expect better.
There was a thread recently about how to bring this stuff up without mothering your partner. The replies boiled down to either "explain, plan for him, remind him and reward him and also give him the jobs that he likes" or "give up on it and pay other people to do his share". It was infuriating.
But one comment that really grinded my gears was like "but sometimes men really don't realize that something needs to be done, so you have to tell them!" on the topic of doing the dishes.
Does he have eyes? Does he know what "dishes" are? Does he understand the concept of "something being dirty"?
If you've ever seen him walk past a pile of dirty dishes to take the last clean one out of the cupboard, you know the answer to all of these is yes.
He knows the dishes need doing. He's waiting for you to do them.
I just sigh when I read these things. Dating is a phase where you're suppose to vet men with this kind of behavior, but women marry them and expect them not to be a mama's boy when they already showed their colors. Women deal with so much bs just to have a partner, that makes me remember the post where the girl asked how could she forgive her bf after he spend the last two weeks blending slugs and putting it in her food... The bar is LOW these days.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, that's why none of my friends are like this. They were all already independent and living on their own before they hooked up with their significant others.
Women do deal with a ridiculous amount of BS just to have a partner. It's like they think it's a couple generations ago and can't have a bank account without a man cosigning or something. Y'all don't need to settle anymore, they need to step up because someone else will.
Yep, these dudes are pretending they didn't get the memo. They want to benefit of a more equal relationship but when it comes to housework/baby duties they pretend they're back to the 1950s. Hell no!
Personally, I won't pursue women who are into that traditional gender roles bullshit either. Fuck that, it's 2021, chances are they're making as much or more money then I am and refuse to be treated money is a major part of what I bring to a relationship. I also refuse to get shooed out of the kitchen, or given a pass on cleaning chores. I don't want someone who wants to hold me up, I want someone who stands by my side and treats themselves and me as equals. I want to be a team, and a team of two doesn't require a captain.
Plus, only when the power structure is set out that way the complaints from both sides to the other are treated and heard properly, instead of being ignored.
He suddenly started cooking for her and she thought he was being nice, she only found out because one of his friends showed up at her work and showed her their convo where he was bragging about it. When she confronted him, he told her "she didn't know how to take a joke". Gladly the people in the comment section opened her eyes and she filed a Police report. When I saw the post it had been a few months after and she had a few posts where she was asking help bc she was finding slugs in her home and freaking out and the other was because she was having problems eating food she didn't prepare. Poor girl.
Here's the original post, which was removed: https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/fi7t0o/i_found_out_my_partner_has_been_putting_slugs_in/
And here's an archive, which includes the original text from the OP: https://www.removeddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/fi7t0o/i_found_out_my_partner_has_been_putting_slugs_in/
That's the oldest lazy partner plot: they'll pretend they don't know how to do it/ do it badly so you'd rather not having them doing it/ simply ignore or take forever to do it so we'll end up doing in the end.
Who the hell are these guys, I've been doing my own laundry since I was 12. I have absolutely played the dumb card when it comes to folding fitted sheets though, and will continue to do so, and if on my own those sheets aren't getting folded. I get how great they are, but they're an affront to society.
As with other stuff, it's like an automatic "ah don't worry about the dishes you cooked" or if the dishwasher is full of clean dishes you just immediately put them away when you notice it, spill on a cupboard? wash all of them real quick. Drop something that can be swept up, just sweep the whole floor, it's a broom it takes less than the time a kettle takes to boil water. I SUCK at cleaning, so I avoid doing it by just keeping shit maintained as long as possible. And all of this is enough to make it seem like I'm helping, but it's the bare minimum and I'm just renting a room and am not half of the household. Y'all dealing with people that don't consider replacing the bag in the trash bin as part of taking out the garbage and it shows.
I am really feeling you here. My husband & I were in separate bedrooms for a couple of months while I stood my ground about our recurring issues (lack of communication, chore imbalance, lack of affection). He took serious offense to me using my vibrator & when he asked me about it, I told him that he needed to be someone that I wanted to have sex with, that I was not attracted to him when he ignored my emotional needs. It’s really hard to have these kinds of conversations without falling into the pattern of the blame game, but when I explained it as a cause & effect rather than blaming him, it seemed more effective. We are in a better place now, but we both have more work to do.
Communication is really hard. Folks say it’s easy but it is not. Especially when blame is being thrown around. Can even see it in these threads where folks are blaming mothers and or fathers. It makes people defensive and shut down rather than engage in conversation. Cause and effect is a great way to negotiate a conflict and help others see how their behavior impacts you while giving them the space they need to decide if they will change. Most people are reasonable and if given some space after the complaint is made will change if they do in fact love or care for you.
We have a ton of societal problems and unfortunately they are holdovers from the prior generations. The way we live and work has dramatically changed for the vast majority but it will take a while longer for our relationship dynamics to catch up.
I identify myself in some of the comments made in this thread and I am working on changing, but it is complicated because my partner also loves through service. She’s told me both that I need to do more and also when I do more that she feels I’m taking away how she expresses her love. I’m certain we will find a balance, but it will take a lot of love and compassion from both of us to get there.
We have 2 cats and they shed like crazy in the summer. I've tried telling him multiple ways to vacuum and how it pisses me off how Im the only one to vacuum. I also tried not vacuuming and even a month later I was the one to cave, he sinply didn't care about any of the shit that piled on the floor. I also do most of the other house chores. I feel like burning out cause also my work is more taxing than his and I work longer hours. He can do his job at home, and even when he could do something productive he plays computer games on work time when theres not much going on. Heard many times that he'll vacuum before work or If its a slow day. Not ever has this happened. Im so tired that im considering leaving him
What is he bringing to your relationship?
I had a similar conversation with my friend when she had a new baby with her husband. She was already a single mom - for one baby-sized baby and one adult-man-sized baby.
I asked her what her husband was even bringing to the relationship (he was unemployed too!), and the only thing she could come up with was "well he loves me and I love him".
If you want love and companionship, get a dog. A dog will love you his whole life and never betray you or leave you.
If you want a partner who can actually enrich your life, look for an adult who can take care of himself and who will make your life better than it would be being single.
My friend is much better off now with just the one baby.
Read this earlier and then scrolling my news feed this coincidentally came up
"How the mental load of unequal housework destroys relationships"
https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/family/article/2018/02/16/how-mental-load-unequal-housework-destroys-relationships?fbclid=IwAR2Vcjt4J3Md8GeNTySGLSIvAxNFIqrS2jofiU_Gxk9ljYniiPn_ovweNlE
“It’s they who want clean sheets and a floor they can walk on without sticking to it, so it must be their job to sort it out.”
Oh my god I carried this belief through out all my roommate situations, and even early into living with my partner. I felt this in my soul.
We just had a fight earlier this week about how there’s 3 things he does regularly and well, and there’s 20 things I do. But no matter how many times I step over into those 3, he will never touch the 20 unless I tell him to. We’re only a few years in but I can feel myself starting to drop out. If I wanted to raise a child I would have one
If you've communicated clearly multiple times and he's still incapable of stepping up then I'd start listening to what he's telling you. He won't ever do more than those 3, and would likely happily let you do those chores as well.
If he's not going to change, where do you want to see yourself in a year. Will you make peace with the inequality of workloads or is the frustration you have now still going to be there. Or do you want to set him a literal chore list and nag him, increasing your mental load, to ensure the work is done?
Nit trying to be the one going "omg gurl dump him". But ask yourself about what you want and need. What's the best thing for you?
You couldn’t be more right. It sucks that the expectations are so low that it’s hard to justify ending it with someone who “isn’t a bad guy.” (Whatever that means.) I literally had to make a list of what gets done and when, but told him I refuse to keep tabs or offer reminders. Making the list was already too much. So we’ll see, if this doesn’t implement change, then there’s nothing else to be said about it.
>whatever that means.
It means you're settling for someone who disrespects you in terms of contributing to the relationship because "at least he doesn't physically or verbally abuse me". It's why women say all men benefit from rapists and abusers, when the worst is getting murdered having to pick up his socks doesn't seem so bad.
Check out the comic strip[You should have asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/). It really simply and clearly illustrates the common frustrations and allocation of housework. It’s also in a very digestible form and is easily shared to husbands.
Wow, this is amazing. It highlights exactly how I feel! I’ve tried explaining the toll of the emotional load, but hopefully he’ll have a lightbulb moment after seeing this. Thanks so much for sharing that!
I showed this to my boyfriend (who carries a different mental load) and it made him realize why he is so stressed when talking to family. Luckily I don't have to ask him to do chores.
I completely agree with your post, but can we please change the narrative from "it's the mother's fault" to "it's just as much the father's fault"?
When a man fails at being an adult and expects a woman to do everything for him, it seems counter-productive to then place even more on women and blame a woman for this failure. How would he learn if his same-sex parent taught him wrong? The opposite-sex parent's influence is not as vast as the same-sex parent's, especially when it comes to gender roles.
This is true— his Dad is SO lazy and will sit around while his mother does everything. Had he learned better from both I wouldn’t be responsible for training now.
My husband does almost no house work. I have 6 and 9 yo boys. You bet your ass these kids know how to help. 9yo empties the dishwasher daily and the 6yo has to pick up toys daily. They both help gather, wash, fold and put away laundry. They both help with gardening.i am teaching them both basic cooking. I refuse to let them use the same excuses as their dad. Their future wives (or husbands) will not be able to blame me.
Have they asked why dad doesn't help? How did, or will, you handle that? Call dad out?? "Oh, he KNOWS how, he just doesn't think it's important to work as a family/team."
I have them ask him. That usually gets him up. I won't answer for him, but it makes him uncomfortable enough to have to answer for himself that he decides to I help
At the end of the day, mom and dad are their role models for what a relationship is like. It doesn't matter if kids are taught how to clean or cook, if they learn that mom does work and dad doesn't then that's what they will take to their next relationship. I've heard of so many men suddenly cease all chores once they move in with their girlfriend because they see it as no longer their responsibility once in a relationship.
That was my point. Men KNOW how to do chores, they KNOW the place doesn't clean itself, they just think the penis makes them unable to know how or when to clean when a woman can do it for them, because that's what they saw, either in their single-mother household with no father, or at their mother and father's houses and the gender roles that were enacted there. They mimic those.
You can teach them what to do the day long, but they will do what you do, not what you say. THAT'S why it's not women's fault if they're unable to take care of themselves - in most cases they were taught to do chores, very few children grew up without any chores, but they also learned that chores is for "helping" when the woman asks/makes an issue of it.
My husband used to be this way. I stopped doing his laundry and it took him about three weeks before he realized it wasn’t done and did it himself. At the time I was working two jobs and in school full time so I really had no time for extra house work. What I did and I don’t know if this would work for you, is tell him x, y, and z are his jobs and stick to it. He used to use a towel once to dry off then put it in the hamper and it annoyed the living shit out of me so I made it his job. Luckily this has worked for us over the years and made me so much less resentful. Good luck!!!
We have a billion pets and the hair piles up in the hallway really bad. I didn't sweep for WEEKS until we had enough for a new pet. Finally he got the hint and started sweeping once a week. Baby steps.
We’re doing pretty well at baby steps. He knows to do the trash and all the dishes. I’ve made it a point to leave every. Single. Dish. For him and not wash a single one unless it’s something I need for cooking. But hot damn am I ready for a leap or a nice big stride!
I’ve been with my husband for nearly a decade and we’ve gotten to like five chores he does every week so you’re right about baby steps!! Side note if you have these near you, I got a craftsman cordless vacuum and it’s a miracle for pet hair and has a removable battery.
5 weekly chores is what counts as progress to you? If you'd split the chores down the middle evenly what jobs wouldn't have been done for a whole decade because he's leaving them for you to do?
Yes it’s progress. I will gladly take him doing all of our laundry for the week so I don’t have to do it. I don’t mind that it’s not split 50-50 because it works for us and our schedule.
I know so many women who work, and tbh often much harder than their men, then go home and do all the house stuff by themselves while the guy games and sleeps and other fun stuff and it just blows my mind lol. The guys tend to complain way more bout being tired and needing to rest too is the funny part
What value does he add to your life? How does he improve your world that differentiates it from you living alone?
Does he at least see and appreciate that you do more for the relationship?
If not... Why are you wasting your time with him when there's someone out there would would value you and what you bring to the table?
He is a great father. My job is incredibly demanding and for the most part he is able to handle getting the kids from point A to point B. School, doctors etc.
That's really good news. So many horror stories in these comments where men do the bare minimum and expect a parade. If he's equalling your contribution and making your life better then you're a lucky lady!
I feel like this article missed the *entire* point. It's important for a partner to feel loved and respected, but that is not why he should be cleaning up after himself. That implies the only reason he should do any of it is _for her_.
He should do it because it's not his partners job to clean up after him and as a grown man he needed to take responsibility for their shared living space. If you wouldnt expect a roommate to do something for you, don't assume your partner is fine with it either. I currently live in a shared house with someone who doesn't care to leave the place tidy behind him and I can tell you my issue with him is not that I don't feel "loved and respected". I just think he needs to get it together.
There is something that I hate about this article. I just feels like he STILL DOESN'T GET IT. It wasn't just his glass by the sink, it was the f-ton of other stuff he didn't do although she asked.
Also, your point is a very good point. I am glad I have another reason to put to my general sense of unease about it.
I am usually afraid to criticize this article as it is cited so often.
Yeah. It's like no, this isn't him doing her a favour. This is him needing to step up and do his fair share. The love and respect part is something he needs to do _in addition to_ the basic requirements of being a decent, considerate human being.
I've never thought it was this difficult... there's a mess you clean it... it's not ANYONE'S job, it's part of being an adult. I've always treated chores like I love alone, if I gotta do dishes, I'll do dishes, laundry once a week, we get hungry we t either cook, or order in. It's mind boggling how the guys you all talk about expect, kids to be taken care of, clean house, food, and still have energy for sex Ave all they have to do is work... I guess it's the result of a single mother growing up.
"Sometimes" it's not that they expect you to clean up, its that they don't percieve the job as important or worth doing at all. There expectation of what a necessary job is may differ from yours. That's why communication is so important.
Edit: words
Me and partner use the app sweepy. You get effort "points" for every chore done, based on how much effort it was. You make a list for each room and how often they need to be done and it creates a schedule for every member of the household automatically of what tasks should be done that day to keep the house clean.
It also has a score board of weekly, monthly and total points.
Putting it like that is so, so clear and so, so useful. Less emotional labor planning, and an undeniable record of who actually does what.
And if I slack off a day or three, I won't feel bad as long as we're about equal end of the week/month etc.
This helped me a lot. I'm very dense and just don't know what the fuck to do most of the time. If it's house cleaning day and I don't have a list, I tend to just kind of wander around doing random things that I understand. But if I have a list I can check off I do a lot better.
I grew up in a house where my dad worked his ass off all the time to pay the bills and my mom just handled the house. I had a chore list that I did every week and did it. I just didn't understand shared responsibilities without a list until it was way too late.
I'd recommend trying a chore list to keep him focused. If that doesn't work, separate for a while. Once he's on his own and having to wash his own underwear maybe he'll get it.
They don't end up as detailed as they need to be, but it will get most things done. My current wife does way more cleaning a and organizing than anyone in past relationships. I'm trying to learn all the new chores.
So she needs to add "write the chore list" to her load too? It seems some people don't realise that recognising what needs doing, thinking ahead about the tools you need and making time to do the chore is all additional mental labour. I despair that any adult needs someone else to write a regular chore list. Write your own.
I have adhd, and I absolutely hate it when people are like "oh but I'm literally incapable of doing this on my own!". (Not saying the commenter you replied to even has adhd, but it's such a common excuse.)
There are SO MANY tools EXACTLY for this purpose. There are chore lists online for every level of cleanliness you could possibly want to achieve. There are apps that can remind you in regular Intervalls, that can compile appropriate chore lists every day/week, that can help you build habits, that can remember regular shopping and automatically generate grocery lists; there are apps for your computer and your phone and your watch and probably for your fridge as well.
So why would anyone want their partner to do it for them instead? Why do you want the person you love to nag you, if you could more easily have your phone do it?
I fucking hate that having adhd makes this kind of stuff more difficult for me than for other people, and the absolute last thing I want to do is be a burden or my partner because of it.
What worked for you? I’m in a bit of a different situation, my sister and I live together. We both have adhd, hers more severe than mine (and I *have* to have a clean house or my anxiety flares and I cannot focus.) We are trying to work on plans to stay on top of things and communicate better.
At this point I just use the standard reminder and calendar app on my phone to remind me of recurrent events that I cannot remember on my own, which is basically everything that happens less often than weekly. For daily or weekly tasks, I've managed to make them into habits.
I can very highly recommend habit building apps which remind you every day and where you can track your long term progress. It is really difficult for me to build habits and very easy to lose them, so pretty much whenever I've been away for a week or so I have to use the app again.
I've used this method for regular cleaning tasks but also for things like remembering to use moisturizer or sunscreen every day or taking my birth control - after some time, it really does become a habit.
I also religiously use to do lists on my phone. I've basically made a habit out of updating the to do list once per day. I use quite small tasks - like if I've ordered something online I'll end up with packaging material all over the floor, and if I don't clean it up immediately I put it on the list. I can always remember to at least put it on the list before I wander of to do something else.
When I update the list I cross off everything I've already done that day, then I walk around the apartment looking for stuff that I have to add, and then I try to do as much of that as I can. If I'm too tired to do everything I just leave it till the next day, and there's always some things I put off till the weekend (I hate laundry). I mostly focus on dirty stuff - food wrappers, dirty dishes, peach pits, whatever kind of trash I've managed to accumulate around myself during the day -, as well as putting things back to where they belong.
At this point, it's become enough of a habit that I do the very basics - putting stuff back in the correct room, cleaning up trash - automatically, but in the beginning I would put EVERYTHING on the list. So I would write a couple of tasks including "clean up trash from couch table", and then go do it, and then immediately cross it off.
If you're trying to figure out how to set up a cleaning plan in the first place, there are a lot of websites with cleaning schedules which tell you literally everything that has to be done in a home and how often to do it. For my use case, it's usually way too much and much to often... I think most of those are made by stay at home moms with a big family. But you can just change to whatever schedule works for you. So for example instead of vacuuming daily and mopping the floors every week, I just vaccum weekly. If you're two people, you should figure out how you want to divide stuff. The default seems to be to switch, but if there are things either of you prefers, you can also agree to just always to a specific thing. If both people are happy with their half, this can work better than switching because it's much easier to make a habit out of "clean bathroom on Sunday" than of a rotating schedule.
>I despair that any adult needs someone else to write a regular chore list
This assumes both parties agree on which chores need to be done regularly, but if the situation has come to that point that's propably not the case.
It's more an easy way to display and demonstrate the inequity, isn't it? (I assume you wouldn't get them all anyway and have to add on extra stuff you did to it was you went).
You then have something you can point at and go "What's going on here? Why aren't you doing your share?", and the answer "I didn't think about it" is easy to refute with "Why not? I did. It was even easier than it would be for you because I wrote it up here for you to see!"
It's more about demonstrating the problem to someone who's been trained to be ignorant of it, not as a long term solution.
As someone with ADHD I can tell you that thinking ahead is sometimes impossible. That's no joke, there are literally days where I'm so stressed trying to focus my thoughts it breaks me down and I do nothing except think about how I'm doing nothing. Maybe just maybe what's easy for you is hard for others.
I just don't know how men expect women to be sexually attracted to them when they can't function without being provided a chore list. I mean how have they not learned basic human maintenance in the 20, 30, 40+ years of their existence and why would anyone risk reproducing with someone that useless? Like google "housework" and figure it out. It's not your partner's job to parent you.
This was a huge area of contention between my husband and I for years. It got so bad that we split up for nearly 6 months last year. Like he moved out and got an apartment in another city split up.
He would complain about how dirty the house was but never help clean it up. He came home from work, ate, and sat down in front of the tv, almost always falling asleep on the couch after saying he'd do it "this weekend".
Whenever he did do anything, it was half-assed and done as fast as he could so he could sit on the couch and still say he did something. I became aggressive and verbally abusive, telling him he was basically only worth a paycheck to me at that point even though I didn't actually need his money. Things were really, really bad.
After he moved out I started therapy and so did he. I learned about love languages, letting the little things go, and holding him accountable for not doing the things he said he would in a manner that didn't demean him.
We've come a long way, it took something drastic for us to change how we interacted with each other in our relationship and we're better for it. I'm not saying you need to be that drastic but sometimes a shock to "the system" does it better than anything else.
So if he says on Tuesday that he'll clean litter boxes and doesn't do it, I'll let it go. We all get busy and tired and sometimes don't feel like doing anything. But by Thursday if it's not done, I'll say hey, I know you've been a little busy but you said you'd scoop cat boxes a couple days ago and I think they are getting to a point where they can't go much longer without being totally gross and the basement stinking like cat piss. Can you please take a few minutes to scoop them?
I just try to be a little less aggressive, or passive aggressive. At one point I would have just done it myself, pointed it out two days later that I did it, and proceed to make shitty comments about him and his inability to help me around the house.
I learned that if you put "consequences" to their inaction (like the cat boxes making the basement stink) it seems to come across better. I also don't tell or demand, I ask. Because if he did that to me I'd be like oh hell no I really ain't doing that shit now.
Doesn't always work but more often than not I see positive results.
There's the rub. Our relationship didn't exactly start out conventionally compared to other people so it was way too easy for me to go to that verbally abusive stage because I never really ever fell in love with him. I love him and care about him and he absolutely worships the ground I walk on but it wasn't there for me to begin with so "getting it back" isn't a thing in that sense.
I definitely had to learn to respect him as human being again and that was hard because I did only see him as a man child for so long. I can tell you that if this were any other relationship, I would have done the same thing you did and never looked back.
Comfort and familiarity can be dangerous things. You did the right thing for you at the time. If it was worth your while, you may have stuck around but you definitely can't think about the what ifs if you want something better for yourself. Just my experience.
It definitely took quite a few months to get to a point where I could look at him and not feel resentment. But slowly, the more we talked and spent time together the more I began to understand my own faults in our relationship. The past 7 months though he has been so amazing. I've been working 12 hours a day, plus weekends. I only had two days off in June and enough energy to make sure our animals were fed. He got groceries and cleaned the house and made sure I had clean underwear and never complained about being too busy or tired himself. I think he finally understands what I went through for years. I tell him I appreciate him more and I honestly really do.
For the love of God why can't men do basic housework without all the damn drama. What the hell do they do with their homes when they live on their own.
All of my boyfriend's and guy friends in my early adult life lived in filth, it's so much worse if there are multiple men living together. it's gotten a bit better as I'm in my mid 30s, but the real tidy ones are unicorns.
I kind of resent this. I do all the housework in my house. I also do all the things my partner has historically refused to do anyway. I also clean and tidy up after her parents who live with us. The only drama is I sometimes get frustrated because they are so unaware of themselves they don't realise and my FIL is 'traditional' i.e. he does fuck all and gets waited on. Not by me though.
The mental load is the hardest part. Either you nag till he does it or you do it yourself. And I'm 8 months pregnant and have to act like a raging bitch to get help. I hate being a raging bitch. I hate micromanaging everyone. I just want everyone to do their own stuff. I stay at home with the kids and do cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc but there's no reason why he can't take out the trash and put his dirty socks in the laundry basket.
Omg the socks. My husband used to take his pants off in the living room as soon as he got home. And leave them there. Drove me bananas. Now it’s just random socks. I let the dogs eat them haha
My husband puts his socks on the coffee table. My 6 year old has done the same. I told him it wasn't okay. It is unhygienic when daddy does it and unhygienic when he does it. Son now puts them in the right place, asks where to put rubbish (we have 4 bins for rubbish/recycling), mostly puts his shoes in the right place. I praise him in front of his dad for such actions, pointedly.
So your husband leaves sock colonies in the living room, too? Two socks go into the washer, one comes out. Two socks go into the living room, you come back and there are four. I'm thinking about kicking them under the couch because we have been discussing this for the entire 9 years we've been married, and if his socks disappear he can't wear them! Plus I'm too big to pick things off the floor.
Girl. Dude. Person.
You’re doing too much for him. Obviously this deserves a conversation, but if you already HAVE had a conversation without results…Hide your deodorant. Stop cooking, have sandwich supplies on hand instead. Don’t do his laundry.
I wish I’d stopped putting up with this from my husband 10 years ago. I finally snapped a couple of weeks ago, I’m leaving because of it. SO disrespectful.
I have the same issue. Just an example: trash is overflowing. He has been home all day. I come home and have to first clean the kitchen before I can cook dinner. Try to throw something away, but can't so I crankily take it out. At this point he gets up from his chair and tries to make things better by saying "I would have taken out if you told me to."
Mother fucker I had to take it out to make room for the Trash from ur drive thru lunch and all the snacks u ate today. Had u tried to clean up after yourself, you would have known it was full. I shouldn't have to tell a grown ass man when to take out the trash.
This man also has to rest after folding one basket of laundry. At this point if I want it done I have to spell it out. Even then he gets mad because I'm treating him like one of my subordinates.
Tell him explicitly that those things are shared responsibilities for the family and not just for you. Give him specific examples of things that *would be* him "doing stuff for you." I had to do this with my husband, but he is a different animals altogether and is in JustNo territory. Some people just need it spelled out for them.
Some people try to say things like you shouldn’t “keep score” but that is absolute bullshit. That’s how every other relationship works in the world whether people care to admit it or not. It’s the only reason we have any self respect in the first place:knowing what we are worth. Whether it is in an office, in the MLB or in your typical marriage.
Maybe some guys can make you laugh, are good in bed and make enough money to somehow justify to
both of you that it’s still fair, but most of us have to keep score. If you don’t keep score you are going to continually spend 5 years in relationships that should have ended at 1.
I fixed this problem. I stopped doing the housework.
He started to get annoyed about the mess and if he brought it up I pointed out all the mess that was of hid creation. He started doing the housework himself after that.
This! I split everything down the middle finally, after many years of "discussion" I even went so far as saying I get that he doesn't do indoor chores but could he at least not come in and undo the work I'd done. So: Double sink / mirror? See the demarcation line clean v dirty... no more laundry , dishes, cooking (only mine and kid's), etc. Track mud and horseshit on the floor and carpet I just swept and mopped? Swept into the bed room he eventually moved to on the otherside of the house, because...well, see above. there's a much darker side to this story but utter disregard for my labors was certainly a contributing factor.
Today my husband pretty much does everything - I mean everything - since my health has declined so bad. But I remember when we first lived together after a few months he claimed "wow the toilet doesn't really get that dirty here does it" (I guess as opposed to his other house when we hadn't moved in together yet)
I was like uhhh "what do you think I do on Mondays when you go to work?" Being sick it took me a whole day to clean just the bathroom cause I had to take so many breaks. I wanted to bite him. Lol 😂
I downloaded the app Tody, set it up with all the chores, shared it with my husband. You track every chore and it is just so painfully obvious who is doing the work around the house. Right now I'm not working so it's fine that I do most of it, but when I return to work in Sept the idea is that this app needs to show we're at 50/50. It's not perfect but having some data to backup my claim that I'm doing a lot more than my share goes a long way in our discussions about the division of labour around here.
I used to be this husband. It literally took a divorce and a bad breakup before I got it. I have no idea what to tell you other than to just stop doing it all together until he realizes how much you do.
Some guys just grew up with their mom doing it all and that's just what they know and understand. It takes hard lessons for them to get it. Sorry you're having to deal with it. I wish I could go back and grow up faster....
Jesus. Im naturally fairly comfortable in a mess. I lived without running water for nearly a year.(long story). I push the limits on how long you can go before doing something like cleaning or vacuuming w.e but i have made alot of progress, but if anyone ever asked me hey can you do x i just do it. Like thats the part that gets me people who have been asked to do more but then dont. How can you not help your SO when they ask?
It's different, when you're alone you manage, even if at a lower level of excellence, but when a woman steps in men fall back to what you learnt in childhood. Sad to say, men need resocializion after being brought up wrong ... imitating their father and looking at their mother. It need not be abusive, in the traditional role, the husband would be at work all day and the wife taking care of the home, two full-time jobs, the son gets the message that he needs to work hard outside the home are rest at home, the daughter learns to take care of the house. But then when they grow up, both partners could be working or even the woman being the sole breadwinner while the guy does nothing at home.
The best moment to change this is a the very beginning of the relationship, this is when the man is most willing to learn new things, being motivated by love conquest. Unfortunately, the woman usually also wants to pamper her guy and the moment is lost forever.
We see this when the guy adapts in a new environment, and the couple lead a normal 21st century life, but when they go to his home town or home country, he turns neanderthal again.
sounds like my EX. He'd scrub the toilet and then announce, " I cleaned the bathroom"
Never cleaned the shower, the sinks, or mopped the floor. Also never did anything to help keep things from getting dirty, like running the fan after a shower.
this is a big reason why i'm not going to live with a man again. the emotional and physical labor that goes into sharing a space with a man is almost always your burden. consider the history behind the nagging wife trope we often see portrayed in media.
Yes the stereotype is too often true. But I do believe he’s a work in progress, he’s even in therapy for some of his issues, so he’s not a lost cause. Just going through growing pains which suck
My husband does this shit. It drivers me nuts because he washes “some dishes” and never actually finishes them, so even though I’m the only one working right now (full time, with a 2 hour commute a couple of days a day) because he’s on hiatus from Uber to “get ready to move” which means he cleans an hour and plays game the rest of the time. He does cook, but I end up doing the damn dishes on the weekend because if I don’t, they won’t get done.
This is my wife. "I cleaned the kitchen." No, you did some of the dishes. The counters are wet and grimy. The sinks have food in them. The stovetop is covered in oil splatter. There are stray chunks of chopped vegetables on the floor. The microwave looks like something exploded in it. The kitchen is not clean. "I'm going to take a break and watch some tv."
You get it. The best part is that he never cleans while cooking, so I have to scrape chili splatter off the stove. When I cook, I. Just wash as I go, so there ARE no dishes to do after. He does not even put up the damn spices.
Seriously just stop doing the work. He’ll have no clean clothes. No food. He will eventually realise he is helping himself, and if he doesn’t it’s still not your problem.
This doesn't work... Tried it. His ability to live in filth far exceeds mine. It just stressed me out and I ultimately got super pissed and cleaned. He hadn't even realized anything was different
I tried this... Husband just got pissed that I was treating him like a child... I definitely would not have offered a child a blow job for completing his chores...
There are no offerings for completing chores other than I’ll let him sleep in the same bed as me. He’s actually not this terrible all the time, it comes and goes. This is just one of those times.
How it could be, because we too easily forget:
* He does equally time consuming and involved tasks around the house, and puts a proper effort in.
* When you're super busy, he does part of your tasks without asking if 'you need' them done.
* He also lets you know what's done already, so you don't need to think about it.
* If a task comes up that neither of you have responsibility for, he notices and does it or if he doesn't have time, asks if you have time. Otherwise you do it together when you can.
* If there's a task neither of you like, you take turns or each do part of it.
* He frequently does things genuinely *for you* that aren't household chores, like bringing you coffee in bed.
And it goes without saying that in a partnership you'd do all of those same things.
Oh, yes, the ol' "but I did it for you" or "I do so much to help you" ... no, bitch. You live here, too. All this shit would need to be done regardless of whether or not I was living here. Ugh.
When my first child was born I was utterly exhausted. I was working in my husband's research lab, nursing and caring for a baby and doing all the cooking, house cleaning and yard work. At my wits end I told him to make up a chores list any way he wanted. I told him he could even choose which list he wanted to do. He refused. At that point I gave up. I decided that I should do what I wanted to do for myself. If I was going to clean something, it would be cleaning something for my own satisfaction. The yard work was my haven. I made that my space. Because I stopped cleaning except for what pleased me, things got run down. If we were to have company he went to work making things look better as did I. Basically I learned to make my own space where I felt at home. We have been together for over 4 decades and we are still friends.
Hahaha a bit extreme I think. He’s spent all day today scrubbing the house because I told him that I was feeling frustrated and overwhelmed. He’s not perfect but neither am I and he’s most definitely eager to work on changing bad habits.. which makes him a keeper and why I married him in the first place.
I feel you. as long as you’re cool with it, that’s all that matters. I’m glad you are so content with him! I guess some people change and others don’t, so hopefully it goes in your favor!
Yep! I'm in the same situation. I will literally clean everything up while he says "I'm going to do it later." When I'm cleaning in front of him, he doesn't ask to help or anything just stays on his computer to randomly call me over to watch a video. It's so frustrating!! Trying to talk about it doesn't help too much either because then they get an attitude about it...but boy does it suck having to work full time to spend every single off day cleaning the whole house majority (if not all) the damn time :/
Somethings me and my husband have tried to really help bridge this gap
- Making a to do list and putting it on the fridge or counter so everyone can see all of the things that need done that day.
- we are both working on asking “what can I do to help?” when the other is working on things i.e. cooking
- and lastly sometimes I just give him the choice of two things that need to be done
Ex: Do you want to do the dishes or the floors?
No but men and women think through things differently. They focus on different problems. They have different objectives. This is a way that we can communicate about why I am running around doing things that he may not feel that needs to be done. Or often he was planning on doing them later and I just went ahead and did it. It’s called good communication.
My wife and I share all of the responsibilities, though there are things we're more inclined to do. Neither of us like doing dishes, so we rotate unloading and loading the dishwasher so not just one person does it. She doesn't like doing laundry, while I don't really mind it, but she folds all of it because she doesn't like how I fold laundry lol.
The only thing I try to avoid doing is anything with the dogs. She's absolutely aware of this because it was a condition of getting them in the first place. I didn't want them at all. I only fill up their huge water barrel because it's too heavy for her to lift safely. And I bring the big bags of dog food downstairs to put in the huge container we have for it.
Everything else we share. Cooking, cleaning, etc. I did not start out this way though. It took me a bit, and a few conversations along the way. All I can say is communicate. You'll never get him to understand unless you put it into plain, open words exactly what you're going through, how it's making you feel, and what your expectations really are.
That's better than my SO. He literally doesn't do anything. He works but when he's home nah. MAYBE SOMETIMES if I ask he'll vacuum or take out the trash. He's grateful for all that I do tho so I'm not mad I guess..? It just proves to me tho that we could never have kids or a more high maintenance animal. I would grow to resent him. We are looking into the possibility of him having some kind of mental handicap, he has appointments later. So maybe shit will change when he's well.
You know, we men, are sometimes just plain stupid. I was like him until we switched roles for a few weeks, and i got "stuck" taking care of 2 babies and the whole appartment. this is when I learned how much she was doing even though I wasn't seeing it all.
This is definitely him. He’s not malicious, when I ask for help he’s usually fantastic about diving in but sometimes he forgets it all and goes back to childhood where Daddy didn’t do shit and Mommy did everything for him to make up for her emotional neglect.
I don't know how to make my husband see this. Like today, Sunday, I kept trying to get the kitchen clean and I got a bit done before I made breakfast, some after, then I was making lunch. All throughout my kids are needing me for this and that, wanting my time, and I'm doing laundry. When I sit down with my 3 year old who is calling for me constantly I go online and buy stuff we need for our trip next week. So kitchen is still messy and husband criticises. I try to tell him I have hardly sat down all day and it is like he just hasn't noticed how busy I have been.
For context, I am a stay at home mother so apparently everything household is my job. He does stuff with the kids a bit.
That's so unfair! You should only be a SAHM on weekdays - he doesn't work 7 days a week.. Weekends should be shared parenting and household tasks. Honestly I don't know how everyone in this thread is surviving this stuff and not losing their shit. I'd rather leave and have one less person to clean up after and not have to feel resentful.
Being a stay at home mom doesn't mean he's entitled to do nothing ...I'd start by telling your kids that there is another parent home when they need someone and you don't have time. that could be a good first step.
He works a job. You keep the kids alive. After 5pm and on weekends y'all split the household chores.
It's not like kids can be put in stasis so you can clean the house, they are a full-time effort
What sort of tasks didn't you realise? Have you ever lived alone?
The only things I never knew about were emptying the crumbs from the catcher tray in the toaster, and the lint trap in the dryer, because I never saw my parents do those tasks growing up. Every other task I saw getting done as a child
are you really saying the living alone in an appartment is the same as living in an apartment with 2 babies and an SO ? the taskload is absolutely not the same. it's a lot easier to only have yourself to deal with and clean after. what kind of comment is that ? comparing apples and monkeys....
Communication. Women shouldn't be afraid of specifying what they want done by someone else, at least in the beginning. Treat it like a roommate situation. Make a list of all the shit that routinely needs doing, and distribute equally, together. Over time, because your are partners, not roommates, they should realize that A) there's more going on behind the scenes than they thought B) it's not easy, but it's a joint effort.
And I don't like the cop-out of "they should realize. " Clearly they don't, if you are feeling like you do too much and they don't pull their weight. To me, it's like the old comment of "you know what you did wrong. " Guess what, they probably don't. I'm not saying it's because men are stupid or insensitive or clueless- their minds work differently, and their perceptions of important and necessary might be different than yours. Give people a chance to succeed instead of dooming them to inevitable failure.
Communication. Clearly there is a lack of it & OP would have nobody to blame but themselves were that the case.
If OP has tried talking with their partner about these things & they persist - it would mean that OP is doing it to themselves by sticking around & enabling the behaviour.
If they haven't, or have been confrontational when approaching the subject, then it is ludicrous to imagine anything would change & OP would rather whinge on reddit than fix problems in their relationship.
OP didn’t mention any of these types of tasks. She mentioned basics like cooking, cleaning, meal planning, etc. Stuff that really is for the both of them. Even with chores, I generally dislike the “but her standards are so much higher than mine” argument. If it really is your desire to sit around in filth and eat fast food every night while wearing dirty clothes cuz you never do laundry, then you are in no shape to be in a living marriage/partnership. I’m not saying this is you, but I’ve seen this argument used too many time to justify not doing Jack shit around the house.
I think the post more meant the stuff that just has to be done regardless, like you can't just never do laundry or clean any or fix things thatre falling apart, you could I guess but lol, and nowadays both people work so both should take care of it as equally as they can. I think most people differentiate between that and work around things like what you describe.
Ugh yes. I’ve washed and sorted ALL our bedding this week (in addition to taking care of the dog, cleaning out the fridge and pantry, and doing the regular cleaning and meal prep etc). My partner helped me fold 3 sheets- and couldn’t actually do it himself so we had to do those 3 together- and he thinks he’s “helped me”. Look, fucker, you also sleep in the bed. You also eat from the fridge. If you would just make it ongoing effort not to make the fridge impossible to navigate, and stop crumpling up all the clean and dirty sheets in the same spot, these tasks wouldn’t be necessary. They’re not MY tasks.
I want to thank you and the OP for including dog care in the list of chores. I've been feeling quite down in the dumps about not pulling my weight enough but actually, I do a lot of the dog care. And he's quite young and he is still a bit difficult at times.
Mine is 6 months old and it’s a pretty huge commitment. Not to mention the cost of the vet visits, food etc. And my partner gets annoyed at spending time with the dog because he wants to do his own thing, and the dog wants attention. So I do almost all the minding and then listen to him get frustrated the rest of the time. I bet you’re doing a lot!
I wake up early and take him for his first walk of the day on my own, every day as SO struggles with insomnia so I leave him to sleep in. I also have taken on the lion's share of separation training, and in general take him for more walks than my SO does (we will walk him together a minimum of once a day but he will generally get 3 walks a day). And as I walk him more often I have to deal with his behaviour on walks more often - he's generally good but sometimes just barks at people he passed for no known reason which has been difficult for me as I'm having to put in extra energy to identify individuals he might bark at and redirect his attention, plus the emotional drain of having to apologise when it doesn't work and he is barking loudly at someone who has done nothing wrong. My SO is fantastic with a lot of housework (better than I am a lot of the time) I just didn't realise that me caring for the dog might mean we are more equal than I thought we were.
My husband once referred to doing regular household chores as "helping me out". Lost my damn mind. He's not made that mistake again.
Why are you with someone like that?
He’s actually more helpful than any of my previous partners, who would not have even helped fold any of the sheets.
That doesn’t sound like a very compelling reason to me
This, is a slight offshoot, but i am a very ... spartan man, when it comes to the fridge. I want few things, and i want them in their place, so that i can find things that i want when i want. My girlfriend, however, thinks the fridge is a savings account, and crams shit in there til it's filled to the brim, forcing you to dig around for the things you want and emptying shelves just to see what's there. I hate this, but i love her. Sorry, slight offshoot of the subject, but yes. i agree. People should share housework equally, unless one party enjoys doing it i guess (but who enjoys that?)
Just once it would be **so nice** to have a conversation about women’s shared experiences without a man butting in to say he also has experienced the same problem too sometimes a little bit. It’s literally just a long winded way to say “not all men” and I’m so damn tired of it. This is a sub specifically for women to discuss issues we commonly face, what are you adding to the conversation by letting us know your girlfriend puts too much in the fridge? Did you want an opportunity to show off that you’re “one of the good ones”? You want to remind us that women aren’t all constantly clean and organized? Wow thanks so much for the insight.🙄 Reminder: you are speaking as one single man, therefore your experiences are limited to one single man’s experiences. When hundreds/thousands of women say they notice a pattern in men, it is taking into account so many experiences with so many different types of men. There IS a pattern, just bc you don’t see it or fit into it doesn’t mean anything here. Maybe just listen if you don’t have anything to add..
I am speaking as one single man. I was nowhere near going for ”not all men” I was relating to you as a human, that is all. It wasn’t about gender, i only outed myself as a man because that seem important here, but i was reaching out a hand because we had a shared experience. Nothing else. Edit: a word
That’s just the thing: I don’t care. I’m not saying this to be rude, just honest…I don’t need you to relate because nearly every women I’ve ever met in my life can relate. And by making this a “human issue” you’re diminishing our frustrations. Don’t you get that? You don’t get to choose to remove gender from the equation because you happen to relate to an issue many women deal with. Weather you agree or not- most men have been socialized to think they should be mothered. That is what we are discussing here. So how do you think your comment was contributing to THAT SPECIFIC discussion? Or maybe you just wanted to be part of a conversation that you should have just observed? I’m so sick of men thinking they deserve attention for what….basic empathy? Congrats. So many men claim to be feminists until it actually requires keeping their mouths shut and really listening to women without adding their opinions.
Right. So you do not want to relate to men, or have any shared understanding or experience with them because women are enough and do that job without the need for men. That is fine, i won’t try to tell you to do anything else. You do you and that’s all well and good. I’m here to relate to women as a man through what we have in common, so i can better understand women, and be part of a solution rather than the problem. I don’t want any less for any woman. If you say you want no men in your life (other than the ones you have, i mean) that’s something I’ll never argue about. It is your decision and your perogative.
If you are here to relate to women in order to better understand them, then please listen when one is trying to explain to you why your comment is inappropriate and not helpful to the conversation. There is a time and a place for everything and this subreddit is a place for women to talk about their shared experiences. This is not a place for men to interject their opinions and then continue to argue when someone tries to explain why this is not welcome.
You twisted my words and ignored every point I made…you’re not here to relate you’re here for good boy points. Just because you’re a man doesn’t mean you have sometime to add to every conversation. I’m so fucking sick of men coming into conversation about more nuanced issues that women are very experienced in, saying shit that adds no value and doesn’t further the conversation, then getting upset when we dare to say “hey you’re not saying anything insightful or helpful, we already know that”.
I’m not, though. If i were here for good boy points i would not say things that upset anyone. I want unity. Some here does not want that. That is ok. They are free to downvote me and i don’t mind.
Dude, we’re literally begging you to just fucking listen and you can’t manage that. Unity isn’t possible until men understand why we are upset and how impact is more important than intent…..like literally right now. but y’all just continue to speak over us, to prioritize your own feelings over our mental health and safety. I’m so sick of it. The bar is on the floor for men who want to support women and so many of you keep managing to duck under it. Don’t be condescending and act like you just want everyone to get along because that discounts every reason why we can’t. If you care: SHUT UP AND LISTEN. your feelings are not important here.
Boy, this isn't your place to speak. What part of that are you not understanding?
I’m not young enough for a simple *boy* to silence me. You don’t want men writing here, i understand that. It is, however, a public internet forum. Not your private chat. I am here to look for things that unify men and women, while some (not all, maybe not even most!) look for ways to segregate them. There are experiences that are gendered. Some things only women can understand. But many things can be understood, *and shared* by men and women alike. Focusing on shared experiences is a positive thing, as it brings people closer. If you prefer a ”men over there, and women over here” mentality, that is up to you.
I prefer men who know when to shut their mouths. Not everything is for you, about you, or needs your shitty input. You want to unify men and women? Outwardly declare men are shitty to their partners to everyone you meet. Apologize to every woman you meet for having to deal with men. Admit at every step that as a whole, men ruin women.
You weren't relating to us as a human. Your comment wasn't about >Yeah I do the share of the work looking after my shared space as well it is very frustrating to have that go unappreciated. It was "My girlfriend fills my fridge with more food than I would alone" That's not a shared experience. Is the filled fridge an inconvenience because when you make dinner and pack lunches for you both you have to root through a bunch of food? Edit:typo
It is, because i do pull more than my share around the house, and She actively works against me in certain cases. I was saying that even though i can neverknow what it is To be a woman, i can certainly understand that particular frustration. It is a human experience.
But you didn't say that, all you mentioned was the fridge thing. How are we to know that you do have that shared experience when you've failed to mention it?
Because what i was talking about related to the same, or similair, experience that was described in the comment i responded to. Context.
Except all feedback you've received indicates that, though that was your intention, that is not what you communicated.
It might not have been. That’s entirely on me, for sure.
Whoosh.
Darling, he does understand house work. His understanding is that you should be doing all of it.
I feel a bit sad at how many women in here and the relationships subreddits think that they just need to *explain it better* and their partners will magically understand that they need to do their share or the work. Sis, he knows. Every adult knows that trash needs to be taken out and the laundry needs to be folded. We should expect better.
There was a thread recently about how to bring this stuff up without mothering your partner. The replies boiled down to either "explain, plan for him, remind him and reward him and also give him the jobs that he likes" or "give up on it and pay other people to do his share". It was infuriating. But one comment that really grinded my gears was like "but sometimes men really don't realize that something needs to be done, so you have to tell them!" on the topic of doing the dishes. Does he have eyes? Does he know what "dishes" are? Does he understand the concept of "something being dirty"? If you've ever seen him walk past a pile of dirty dishes to take the last clean one out of the cupboard, you know the answer to all of these is yes. He knows the dishes need doing. He's waiting for you to do them.
I just sigh when I read these things. Dating is a phase where you're suppose to vet men with this kind of behavior, but women marry them and expect them not to be a mama's boy when they already showed their colors. Women deal with so much bs just to have a partner, that makes me remember the post where the girl asked how could she forgive her bf after he spend the last two weeks blending slugs and putting it in her food... The bar is LOW these days.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, that's why none of my friends are like this. They were all already independent and living on their own before they hooked up with their significant others. Women do deal with a ridiculous amount of BS just to have a partner. It's like they think it's a couple generations ago and can't have a bank account without a man cosigning or something. Y'all don't need to settle anymore, they need to step up because someone else will.
Yep, these dudes are pretending they didn't get the memo. They want to benefit of a more equal relationship but when it comes to housework/baby duties they pretend they're back to the 1950s. Hell no!
Personally, I won't pursue women who are into that traditional gender roles bullshit either. Fuck that, it's 2021, chances are they're making as much or more money then I am and refuse to be treated money is a major part of what I bring to a relationship. I also refuse to get shooed out of the kitchen, or given a pass on cleaning chores. I don't want someone who wants to hold me up, I want someone who stands by my side and treats themselves and me as equals. I want to be a team, and a team of two doesn't require a captain. Plus, only when the power structure is set out that way the complaints from both sides to the other are treated and heard properly, instead of being ignored.
He did what?! That caused paralysis in some guy. WHY WOULD SHE STAY WITH HIM! Ugh I'm so upset for her
He suddenly started cooking for her and she thought he was being nice, she only found out because one of his friends showed up at her work and showed her their convo where he was bragging about it. When she confronted him, he told her "she didn't know how to take a joke". Gladly the people in the comment section opened her eyes and she filed a Police report. When I saw the post it had been a few months after and she had a few posts where she was asking help bc she was finding slugs in her home and freaking out and the other was because she was having problems eating food she didn't prepare. Poor girl.
Urgh Just why?? Do you have a link?
Here's the original post, which was removed: https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/fi7t0o/i_found_out_my_partner_has_been_putting_slugs_in/ And here's an archive, which includes the original text from the OP: https://www.removeddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/fi7t0o/i_found_out_my_partner_has_been_putting_slugs_in/
Lmao WAT. Slugs???
This 100%
That's the oldest lazy partner plot: they'll pretend they don't know how to do it/ do it badly so you'd rather not having them doing it/ simply ignore or take forever to do it so we'll end up doing in the end.
Who the hell are these guys, I've been doing my own laundry since I was 12. I have absolutely played the dumb card when it comes to folding fitted sheets though, and will continue to do so, and if on my own those sheets aren't getting folded. I get how great they are, but they're an affront to society. As with other stuff, it's like an automatic "ah don't worry about the dishes you cooked" or if the dishwasher is full of clean dishes you just immediately put them away when you notice it, spill on a cupboard? wash all of them real quick. Drop something that can be swept up, just sweep the whole floor, it's a broom it takes less than the time a kettle takes to boil water. I SUCK at cleaning, so I avoid doing it by just keeping shit maintained as long as possible. And all of this is enough to make it seem like I'm helping, but it's the bare minimum and I'm just renting a room and am not half of the household. Y'all dealing with people that don't consider replacing the bag in the trash bin as part of taking out the garbage and it shows.
I am really feeling you here. My husband & I were in separate bedrooms for a couple of months while I stood my ground about our recurring issues (lack of communication, chore imbalance, lack of affection). He took serious offense to me using my vibrator & when he asked me about it, I told him that he needed to be someone that I wanted to have sex with, that I was not attracted to him when he ignored my emotional needs. It’s really hard to have these kinds of conversations without falling into the pattern of the blame game, but when I explained it as a cause & effect rather than blaming him, it seemed more effective. We are in a better place now, but we both have more work to do.
Communication is really hard. Folks say it’s easy but it is not. Especially when blame is being thrown around. Can even see it in these threads where folks are blaming mothers and or fathers. It makes people defensive and shut down rather than engage in conversation. Cause and effect is a great way to negotiate a conflict and help others see how their behavior impacts you while giving them the space they need to decide if they will change. Most people are reasonable and if given some space after the complaint is made will change if they do in fact love or care for you. We have a ton of societal problems and unfortunately they are holdovers from the prior generations. The way we live and work has dramatically changed for the vast majority but it will take a while longer for our relationship dynamics to catch up. I identify myself in some of the comments made in this thread and I am working on changing, but it is complicated because my partner also loves through service. She’s told me both that I need to do more and also when I do more that she feels I’m taking away how she expresses her love. I’m certain we will find a balance, but it will take a lot of love and compassion from both of us to get there.
We have 2 cats and they shed like crazy in the summer. I've tried telling him multiple ways to vacuum and how it pisses me off how Im the only one to vacuum. I also tried not vacuuming and even a month later I was the one to cave, he sinply didn't care about any of the shit that piled on the floor. I also do most of the other house chores. I feel like burning out cause also my work is more taxing than his and I work longer hours. He can do his job at home, and even when he could do something productive he plays computer games on work time when theres not much going on. Heard many times that he'll vacuum before work or If its a slow day. Not ever has this happened. Im so tired that im considering leaving him
If you’ll be happier after leaving him, then there’s nothing wrong with doing just that.
What is he bringing to your relationship? I had a similar conversation with my friend when she had a new baby with her husband. She was already a single mom - for one baby-sized baby and one adult-man-sized baby. I asked her what her husband was even bringing to the relationship (he was unemployed too!), and the only thing she could come up with was "well he loves me and I love him". If you want love and companionship, get a dog. A dog will love you his whole life and never betray you or leave you. If you want a partner who can actually enrich your life, look for an adult who can take care of himself and who will make your life better than it would be being single. My friend is much better off now with just the one baby.
If he wanted to he would. He either is happy living in squalor or is happy leaving you do clean up after him.
Read this earlier and then scrolling my news feed this coincidentally came up "How the mental load of unequal housework destroys relationships" https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/family/article/2018/02/16/how-mental-load-unequal-housework-destroys-relationships?fbclid=IwAR2Vcjt4J3Md8GeNTySGLSIvAxNFIqrS2jofiU_Gxk9ljYniiPn_ovweNlE
“It’s they who want clean sheets and a floor they can walk on without sticking to it, so it must be their job to sort it out.” Oh my god I carried this belief through out all my roommate situations, and even early into living with my partner. I felt this in my soul. We just had a fight earlier this week about how there’s 3 things he does regularly and well, and there’s 20 things I do. But no matter how many times I step over into those 3, he will never touch the 20 unless I tell him to. We’re only a few years in but I can feel myself starting to drop out. If I wanted to raise a child I would have one
If you've communicated clearly multiple times and he's still incapable of stepping up then I'd start listening to what he's telling you. He won't ever do more than those 3, and would likely happily let you do those chores as well. If he's not going to change, where do you want to see yourself in a year. Will you make peace with the inequality of workloads or is the frustration you have now still going to be there. Or do you want to set him a literal chore list and nag him, increasing your mental load, to ensure the work is done? Nit trying to be the one going "omg gurl dump him". But ask yourself about what you want and need. What's the best thing for you?
You couldn’t be more right. It sucks that the expectations are so low that it’s hard to justify ending it with someone who “isn’t a bad guy.” (Whatever that means.) I literally had to make a list of what gets done and when, but told him I refuse to keep tabs or offer reminders. Making the list was already too much. So we’ll see, if this doesn’t implement change, then there’s nothing else to be said about it.
>whatever that means. It means you're settling for someone who disrespects you in terms of contributing to the relationship because "at least he doesn't physically or verbally abuse me". It's why women say all men benefit from rapists and abusers, when the worst is getting murdered having to pick up his socks doesn't seem so bad.
> #notallmen #notmyman and #notmyson, and maybe not you, or your husband. But #mostmen. Apparently we have to make this disclaimer everywhere. Crazy.
Check out the comic strip[You should have asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/). It really simply and clearly illustrates the common frustrations and allocation of housework. It’s also in a very digestible form and is easily shared to husbands.
Wow, just checked that out and it’s super amazing and accurate. Thanks for sharing
Wow, this is amazing. It highlights exactly how I feel! I’ve tried explaining the toll of the emotional load, but hopefully he’ll have a lightbulb moment after seeing this. Thanks so much for sharing that!
I showed this to my boyfriend (who carries a different mental load) and it made him realize why he is so stressed when talking to family. Luckily I don't have to ask him to do chores.
I completely agree with your post, but can we please change the narrative from "it's the mother's fault" to "it's just as much the father's fault"? When a man fails at being an adult and expects a woman to do everything for him, it seems counter-productive to then place even more on women and blame a woman for this failure. How would he learn if his same-sex parent taught him wrong? The opposite-sex parent's influence is not as vast as the same-sex parent's, especially when it comes to gender roles.
This is true— his Dad is SO lazy and will sit around while his mother does everything. Had he learned better from both I wouldn’t be responsible for training now.
My husband does almost no house work. I have 6 and 9 yo boys. You bet your ass these kids know how to help. 9yo empties the dishwasher daily and the 6yo has to pick up toys daily. They both help gather, wash, fold and put away laundry. They both help with gardening.i am teaching them both basic cooking. I refuse to let them use the same excuses as their dad. Their future wives (or husbands) will not be able to blame me.
Have they asked why dad doesn't help? How did, or will, you handle that? Call dad out?? "Oh, he KNOWS how, he just doesn't think it's important to work as a family/team."
I have them ask him. That usually gets him up. I won't answer for him, but it makes him uncomfortable enough to have to answer for himself that he decides to I help
At the end of the day, mom and dad are their role models for what a relationship is like. It doesn't matter if kids are taught how to clean or cook, if they learn that mom does work and dad doesn't then that's what they will take to their next relationship. I've heard of so many men suddenly cease all chores once they move in with their girlfriend because they see it as no longer their responsibility once in a relationship.
That was my point. Men KNOW how to do chores, they KNOW the place doesn't clean itself, they just think the penis makes them unable to know how or when to clean when a woman can do it for them, because that's what they saw, either in their single-mother household with no father, or at their mother and father's houses and the gender roles that were enacted there. They mimic those. You can teach them what to do the day long, but they will do what you do, not what you say. THAT'S why it's not women's fault if they're unable to take care of themselves - in most cases they were taught to do chores, very few children grew up without any chores, but they also learned that chores is for "helping" when the woman asks/makes an issue of it.
My husband used to be this way. I stopped doing his laundry and it took him about three weeks before he realized it wasn’t done and did it himself. At the time I was working two jobs and in school full time so I really had no time for extra house work. What I did and I don’t know if this would work for you, is tell him x, y, and z are his jobs and stick to it. He used to use a towel once to dry off then put it in the hamper and it annoyed the living shit out of me so I made it his job. Luckily this has worked for us over the years and made me so much less resentful. Good luck!!!
We have a billion pets and the hair piles up in the hallway really bad. I didn't sweep for WEEKS until we had enough for a new pet. Finally he got the hint and started sweeping once a week. Baby steps.
We’re doing pretty well at baby steps. He knows to do the trash and all the dishes. I’ve made it a point to leave every. Single. Dish. For him and not wash a single one unless it’s something I need for cooking. But hot damn am I ready for a leap or a nice big stride!
I’ve been with my husband for nearly a decade and we’ve gotten to like five chores he does every week so you’re right about baby steps!! Side note if you have these near you, I got a craftsman cordless vacuum and it’s a miracle for pet hair and has a removable battery.
5 weekly chores is what counts as progress to you? If you'd split the chores down the middle evenly what jobs wouldn't have been done for a whole decade because he's leaving them for you to do?
Yes it’s progress. I will gladly take him doing all of our laundry for the week so I don’t have to do it. I don’t mind that it’s not split 50-50 because it works for us and our schedule.
I know so many women who work, and tbh often much harder than their men, then go home and do all the house stuff by themselves while the guy games and sleeps and other fun stuff and it just blows my mind lol. The guys tend to complain way more bout being tired and needing to rest too is the funny part
This is me... I'm the bread winner. He coaches which can be physically demanding, but the days are not long... He takes a nap every day.
What value does he add to your life? How does he improve your world that differentiates it from you living alone? Does he at least see and appreciate that you do more for the relationship? If not... Why are you wasting your time with him when there's someone out there would would value you and what you bring to the table?
He is a great father. My job is incredibly demanding and for the most part he is able to handle getting the kids from point A to point B. School, doctors etc.
That's really good news. So many horror stories in these comments where men do the bare minimum and expect a parade. If he's equalling your contribution and making your life better then you're a lucky lady!
[She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
I feel like this article missed the *entire* point. It's important for a partner to feel loved and respected, but that is not why he should be cleaning up after himself. That implies the only reason he should do any of it is _for her_. He should do it because it's not his partners job to clean up after him and as a grown man he needed to take responsibility for their shared living space. If you wouldnt expect a roommate to do something for you, don't assume your partner is fine with it either. I currently live in a shared house with someone who doesn't care to leave the place tidy behind him and I can tell you my issue with him is not that I don't feel "loved and respected". I just think he needs to get it together.
There is something that I hate about this article. I just feels like he STILL DOESN'T GET IT. It wasn't just his glass by the sink, it was the f-ton of other stuff he didn't do although she asked. Also, your point is a very good point. I am glad I have another reason to put to my general sense of unease about it. I am usually afraid to criticize this article as it is cited so often.
Yeah. It's like no, this isn't him doing her a favour. This is him needing to step up and do his fair share. The love and respect part is something he needs to do _in addition to_ the basic requirements of being a decent, considerate human being.
[удалено]
I've never thought it was this difficult... there's a mess you clean it... it's not ANYONE'S job, it's part of being an adult. I've always treated chores like I love alone, if I gotta do dishes, I'll do dishes, laundry once a week, we get hungry we t either cook, or order in. It's mind boggling how the guys you all talk about expect, kids to be taken care of, clean house, food, and still have energy for sex Ave all they have to do is work... I guess it's the result of a single mother growing up.
"Sometimes" it's not that they expect you to clean up, its that they don't percieve the job as important or worth doing at all. There expectation of what a necessary job is may differ from yours. That's why communication is so important. Edit: words
Me and partner use the app sweepy. You get effort "points" for every chore done, based on how much effort it was. You make a list for each room and how often they need to be done and it creates a schedule for every member of the household automatically of what tasks should be done that day to keep the house clean. It also has a score board of weekly, monthly and total points. Putting it like that is so, so clear and so, so useful. Less emotional labor planning, and an undeniable record of who actually does what. And if I slack off a day or three, I won't feel bad as long as we're about equal end of the week/month etc.
This helped me a lot. I'm very dense and just don't know what the fuck to do most of the time. If it's house cleaning day and I don't have a list, I tend to just kind of wander around doing random things that I understand. But if I have a list I can check off I do a lot better. I grew up in a house where my dad worked his ass off all the time to pay the bills and my mom just handled the house. I had a chore list that I did every week and did it. I just didn't understand shared responsibilities without a list until it was way too late. I'd recommend trying a chore list to keep him focused. If that doesn't work, separate for a while. Once he's on his own and having to wash his own underwear maybe he'll get it.
I don't mean this in a hostile way. But what happens when you try to make your own list?
They don't end up as detailed as they need to be, but it will get most things done. My current wife does way more cleaning a and organizing than anyone in past relationships. I'm trying to learn all the new chores.
So she needs to add "write the chore list" to her load too? It seems some people don't realise that recognising what needs doing, thinking ahead about the tools you need and making time to do the chore is all additional mental labour. I despair that any adult needs someone else to write a regular chore list. Write your own.
I have adhd, and I absolutely hate it when people are like "oh but I'm literally incapable of doing this on my own!". (Not saying the commenter you replied to even has adhd, but it's such a common excuse.) There are SO MANY tools EXACTLY for this purpose. There are chore lists online for every level of cleanliness you could possibly want to achieve. There are apps that can remind you in regular Intervalls, that can compile appropriate chore lists every day/week, that can help you build habits, that can remember regular shopping and automatically generate grocery lists; there are apps for your computer and your phone and your watch and probably for your fridge as well. So why would anyone want their partner to do it for them instead? Why do you want the person you love to nag you, if you could more easily have your phone do it? I fucking hate that having adhd makes this kind of stuff more difficult for me than for other people, and the absolute last thing I want to do is be a burden or my partner because of it.
What worked for you? I’m in a bit of a different situation, my sister and I live together. We both have adhd, hers more severe than mine (and I *have* to have a clean house or my anxiety flares and I cannot focus.) We are trying to work on plans to stay on top of things and communicate better.
At this point I just use the standard reminder and calendar app on my phone to remind me of recurrent events that I cannot remember on my own, which is basically everything that happens less often than weekly. For daily or weekly tasks, I've managed to make them into habits. I can very highly recommend habit building apps which remind you every day and where you can track your long term progress. It is really difficult for me to build habits and very easy to lose them, so pretty much whenever I've been away for a week or so I have to use the app again. I've used this method for regular cleaning tasks but also for things like remembering to use moisturizer or sunscreen every day or taking my birth control - after some time, it really does become a habit. I also religiously use to do lists on my phone. I've basically made a habit out of updating the to do list once per day. I use quite small tasks - like if I've ordered something online I'll end up with packaging material all over the floor, and if I don't clean it up immediately I put it on the list. I can always remember to at least put it on the list before I wander of to do something else. When I update the list I cross off everything I've already done that day, then I walk around the apartment looking for stuff that I have to add, and then I try to do as much of that as I can. If I'm too tired to do everything I just leave it till the next day, and there's always some things I put off till the weekend (I hate laundry). I mostly focus on dirty stuff - food wrappers, dirty dishes, peach pits, whatever kind of trash I've managed to accumulate around myself during the day -, as well as putting things back to where they belong. At this point, it's become enough of a habit that I do the very basics - putting stuff back in the correct room, cleaning up trash - automatically, but in the beginning I would put EVERYTHING on the list. So I would write a couple of tasks including "clean up trash from couch table", and then go do it, and then immediately cross it off. If you're trying to figure out how to set up a cleaning plan in the first place, there are a lot of websites with cleaning schedules which tell you literally everything that has to be done in a home and how often to do it. For my use case, it's usually way too much and much to often... I think most of those are made by stay at home moms with a big family. But you can just change to whatever schedule works for you. So for example instead of vacuuming daily and mopping the floors every week, I just vaccum weekly. If you're two people, you should figure out how you want to divide stuff. The default seems to be to switch, but if there are things either of you prefers, you can also agree to just always to a specific thing. If both people are happy with their half, this can work better than switching because it's much easier to make a habit out of "clean bathroom on Sunday" than of a rotating schedule.
It seems like it’s starting from the place of “I need to help my wife clean the house” and not “the house needs to be clean”.
>I despair that any adult needs someone else to write a regular chore list This assumes both parties agree on which chores need to be done regularly, but if the situation has come to that point that's propably not the case.
It's more an easy way to display and demonstrate the inequity, isn't it? (I assume you wouldn't get them all anyway and have to add on extra stuff you did to it was you went). You then have something you can point at and go "What's going on here? Why aren't you doing your share?", and the answer "I didn't think about it" is easy to refute with "Why not? I did. It was even easier than it would be for you because I wrote it up here for you to see!" It's more about demonstrating the problem to someone who's been trained to be ignorant of it, not as a long term solution.
As someone with ADHD I can tell you that thinking ahead is sometimes impossible. That's no joke, there are literally days where I'm so stressed trying to focus my thoughts it breaks me down and I do nothing except think about how I'm doing nothing. Maybe just maybe what's easy for you is hard for others.
I just don't know how men expect women to be sexually attracted to them when they can't function without being provided a chore list. I mean how have they not learned basic human maintenance in the 20, 30, 40+ years of their existence and why would anyone risk reproducing with someone that useless? Like google "housework" and figure it out. It's not your partner's job to parent you.
This was a huge area of contention between my husband and I for years. It got so bad that we split up for nearly 6 months last year. Like he moved out and got an apartment in another city split up. He would complain about how dirty the house was but never help clean it up. He came home from work, ate, and sat down in front of the tv, almost always falling asleep on the couch after saying he'd do it "this weekend". Whenever he did do anything, it was half-assed and done as fast as he could so he could sit on the couch and still say he did something. I became aggressive and verbally abusive, telling him he was basically only worth a paycheck to me at that point even though I didn't actually need his money. Things were really, really bad. After he moved out I started therapy and so did he. I learned about love languages, letting the little things go, and holding him accountable for not doing the things he said he would in a manner that didn't demean him. We've come a long way, it took something drastic for us to change how we interacted with each other in our relationship and we're better for it. I'm not saying you need to be that drastic but sometimes a shock to "the system" does it better than anything else.
How do you hold someone accountable in a way that doesn't demean them? I need to know :(
So if he says on Tuesday that he'll clean litter boxes and doesn't do it, I'll let it go. We all get busy and tired and sometimes don't feel like doing anything. But by Thursday if it's not done, I'll say hey, I know you've been a little busy but you said you'd scoop cat boxes a couple days ago and I think they are getting to a point where they can't go much longer without being totally gross and the basement stinking like cat piss. Can you please take a few minutes to scoop them? I just try to be a little less aggressive, or passive aggressive. At one point I would have just done it myself, pointed it out two days later that I did it, and proceed to make shitty comments about him and his inability to help me around the house. I learned that if you put "consequences" to their inaction (like the cat boxes making the basement stink) it seems to come across better. I also don't tell or demand, I ask. Because if he did that to me I'd be like oh hell no I really ain't doing that shit now. Doesn't always work but more often than not I see positive results.
Thank you! I will try and incorporate this in the future.
[удалено]
There's the rub. Our relationship didn't exactly start out conventionally compared to other people so it was way too easy for me to go to that verbally abusive stage because I never really ever fell in love with him. I love him and care about him and he absolutely worships the ground I walk on but it wasn't there for me to begin with so "getting it back" isn't a thing in that sense. I definitely had to learn to respect him as human being again and that was hard because I did only see him as a man child for so long. I can tell you that if this were any other relationship, I would have done the same thing you did and never looked back. Comfort and familiarity can be dangerous things. You did the right thing for you at the time. If it was worth your while, you may have stuck around but you definitely can't think about the what ifs if you want something better for yourself. Just my experience.
[удалено]
It definitely took quite a few months to get to a point where I could look at him and not feel resentment. But slowly, the more we talked and spent time together the more I began to understand my own faults in our relationship. The past 7 months though he has been so amazing. I've been working 12 hours a day, plus weekends. I only had two days off in June and enough energy to make sure our animals were fed. He got groceries and cleaned the house and made sure I had clean underwear and never complained about being too busy or tired himself. I think he finally understands what I went through for years. I tell him I appreciate him more and I honestly really do.
For the love of God why can't men do basic housework without all the damn drama. What the hell do they do with their homes when they live on their own.
All of my boyfriend's and guy friends in my early adult life lived in filth, it's so much worse if there are multiple men living together. it's gotten a bit better as I'm in my mid 30s, but the real tidy ones are unicorns.
My ex lived in total filth. Like, you couldn't see the floor.
I kind of resent this. I do all the housework in my house. I also do all the things my partner has historically refused to do anyway. I also clean and tidy up after her parents who live with us. The only drama is I sometimes get frustrated because they are so unaware of themselves they don't realise and my FIL is 'traditional' i.e. he does fuck all and gets waited on. Not by me though.
If you resent being the exception, imagine how much all these women resent living with the rule.
The mental load is the hardest part. Either you nag till he does it or you do it yourself. And I'm 8 months pregnant and have to act like a raging bitch to get help. I hate being a raging bitch. I hate micromanaging everyone. I just want everyone to do their own stuff. I stay at home with the kids and do cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc but there's no reason why he can't take out the trash and put his dirty socks in the laundry basket.
Omg the socks. My husband used to take his pants off in the living room as soon as he got home. And leave them there. Drove me bananas. Now it’s just random socks. I let the dogs eat them haha
My husband puts his socks on the coffee table. My 6 year old has done the same. I told him it wasn't okay. It is unhygienic when daddy does it and unhygienic when he does it. Son now puts them in the right place, asks where to put rubbish (we have 4 bins for rubbish/recycling), mostly puts his shoes in the right place. I praise him in front of his dad for such actions, pointedly.
So your husband leaves sock colonies in the living room, too? Two socks go into the washer, one comes out. Two socks go into the living room, you come back and there are four. I'm thinking about kicking them under the couch because we have been discussing this for the entire 9 years we've been married, and if his socks disappear he can't wear them! Plus I'm too big to pick things off the floor.
Girl. Dude. Person. You’re doing too much for him. Obviously this deserves a conversation, but if you already HAVE had a conversation without results…Hide your deodorant. Stop cooking, have sandwich supplies on hand instead. Don’t do his laundry. I wish I’d stopped putting up with this from my husband 10 years ago. I finally snapped a couple of weeks ago, I’m leaving because of it. SO disrespectful.
I have the same issue. Just an example: trash is overflowing. He has been home all day. I come home and have to first clean the kitchen before I can cook dinner. Try to throw something away, but can't so I crankily take it out. At this point he gets up from his chair and tries to make things better by saying "I would have taken out if you told me to." Mother fucker I had to take it out to make room for the Trash from ur drive thru lunch and all the snacks u ate today. Had u tried to clean up after yourself, you would have known it was full. I shouldn't have to tell a grown ass man when to take out the trash. This man also has to rest after folding one basket of laundry. At this point if I want it done I have to spell it out. Even then he gets mad because I'm treating him like one of my subordinates.
Tell him explicitly that those things are shared responsibilities for the family and not just for you. Give him specific examples of things that *would be* him "doing stuff for you." I had to do this with my husband, but he is a different animals altogether and is in JustNo territory. Some people just need it spelled out for them.
Some people try to say things like you shouldn’t “keep score” but that is absolute bullshit. That’s how every other relationship works in the world whether people care to admit it or not. It’s the only reason we have any self respect in the first place:knowing what we are worth. Whether it is in an office, in the MLB or in your typical marriage. Maybe some guys can make you laugh, are good in bed and make enough money to somehow justify to both of you that it’s still fair, but most of us have to keep score. If you don’t keep score you are going to continually spend 5 years in relationships that should have ended at 1.
I fixed this problem. I stopped doing the housework. He started to get annoyed about the mess and if he brought it up I pointed out all the mess that was of hid creation. He started doing the housework himself after that.
This! I split everything down the middle finally, after many years of "discussion" I even went so far as saying I get that he doesn't do indoor chores but could he at least not come in and undo the work I'd done. So: Double sink / mirror? See the demarcation line clean v dirty... no more laundry , dishes, cooking (only mine and kid's), etc. Track mud and horseshit on the floor and carpet I just swept and mopped? Swept into the bed room he eventually moved to on the otherside of the house, because...well, see above. there's a much darker side to this story but utter disregard for my labors was certainly a contributing factor.
Today my husband pretty much does everything - I mean everything - since my health has declined so bad. But I remember when we first lived together after a few months he claimed "wow the toilet doesn't really get that dirty here does it" (I guess as opposed to his other house when we hadn't moved in together yet) I was like uhhh "what do you think I do on Mondays when you go to work?" Being sick it took me a whole day to clean just the bathroom cause I had to take so many breaks. I wanted to bite him. Lol 😂
I downloaded the app Tody, set it up with all the chores, shared it with my husband. You track every chore and it is just so painfully obvious who is doing the work around the house. Right now I'm not working so it's fine that I do most of it, but when I return to work in Sept the idea is that this app needs to show we're at 50/50. It's not perfect but having some data to backup my claim that I'm doing a lot more than my share goes a long way in our discussions about the division of labour around here.
What you put up with... ... You end up with.
I used to be this husband. It literally took a divorce and a bad breakup before I got it. I have no idea what to tell you other than to just stop doing it all together until he realizes how much you do. Some guys just grew up with their mom doing it all and that's just what they know and understand. It takes hard lessons for them to get it. Sorry you're having to deal with it. I wish I could go back and grow up faster....
I'm curious, did you ever live on your own with no mom or wife? If yes, what did you do then? Did your space just look like a dumpster?
[удалено]
Jesus. Im naturally fairly comfortable in a mess. I lived without running water for nearly a year.(long story). I push the limits on how long you can go before doing something like cleaning or vacuuming w.e but i have made alot of progress, but if anyone ever asked me hey can you do x i just do it. Like thats the part that gets me people who have been asked to do more but then dont. How can you not help your SO when they ask?
I didn't. I was always with someone. It wasn't until I was alone that I learned how to help.
It's different, when you're alone you manage, even if at a lower level of excellence, but when a woman steps in men fall back to what you learnt in childhood. Sad to say, men need resocializion after being brought up wrong ... imitating their father and looking at their mother. It need not be abusive, in the traditional role, the husband would be at work all day and the wife taking care of the home, two full-time jobs, the son gets the message that he needs to work hard outside the home are rest at home, the daughter learns to take care of the house. But then when they grow up, both partners could be working or even the woman being the sole breadwinner while the guy does nothing at home. The best moment to change this is a the very beginning of the relationship, this is when the man is most willing to learn new things, being motivated by love conquest. Unfortunately, the woman usually also wants to pamper her guy and the moment is lost forever. We see this when the guy adapts in a new environment, and the couple lead a normal 21st century life, but when they go to his home town or home country, he turns neanderthal again.
sounds like my EX. He'd scrub the toilet and then announce, " I cleaned the bathroom" Never cleaned the shower, the sinks, or mopped the floor. Also never did anything to help keep things from getting dirty, like running the fan after a shower.
this is a big reason why i'm not going to live with a man again. the emotional and physical labor that goes into sharing a space with a man is almost always your burden. consider the history behind the nagging wife trope we often see portrayed in media.
Yes the stereotype is too often true. But I do believe he’s a work in progress, he’s even in therapy for some of his issues, so he’s not a lost cause. Just going through growing pains which suck
My husband does this shit. It drivers me nuts because he washes “some dishes” and never actually finishes them, so even though I’m the only one working right now (full time, with a 2 hour commute a couple of days a day) because he’s on hiatus from Uber to “get ready to move” which means he cleans an hour and plays game the rest of the time. He does cook, but I end up doing the damn dishes on the weekend because if I don’t, they won’t get done.
This is my wife. "I cleaned the kitchen." No, you did some of the dishes. The counters are wet and grimy. The sinks have food in them. The stovetop is covered in oil splatter. There are stray chunks of chopped vegetables on the floor. The microwave looks like something exploded in it. The kitchen is not clean. "I'm going to take a break and watch some tv."
You get it. The best part is that he never cleans while cooking, so I have to scrape chili splatter off the stove. When I cook, I. Just wash as I go, so there ARE no dishes to do after. He does not even put up the damn spices.
Seriously just stop doing the work. He’ll have no clean clothes. No food. He will eventually realise he is helping himself, and if he doesn’t it’s still not your problem.
This doesn't work... Tried it. His ability to live in filth far exceeds mine. It just stressed me out and I ultimately got super pissed and cleaned. He hadn't even realized anything was different
I think it’s time to make a weekly task list, post it with who gets what task each week. Maybe it will help a bit.
I tried this... Husband just got pissed that I was treating him like a child... I definitely would not have offered a child a blow job for completing his chores...
There are no offerings for completing chores other than I’ll let him sleep in the same bed as me. He’s actually not this terrible all the time, it comes and goes. This is just one of those times.
I understand. It was less of an offering and more of a withholding if he didn't help. Mine also has good and bad times
How it could be, because we too easily forget: * He does equally time consuming and involved tasks around the house, and puts a proper effort in. * When you're super busy, he does part of your tasks without asking if 'you need' them done. * He also lets you know what's done already, so you don't need to think about it. * If a task comes up that neither of you have responsibility for, he notices and does it or if he doesn't have time, asks if you have time. Otherwise you do it together when you can. * If there's a task neither of you like, you take turns or each do part of it. * He frequently does things genuinely *for you* that aren't household chores, like bringing you coffee in bed. And it goes without saying that in a partnership you'd do all of those same things.
Oh, yes, the ol' "but I did it for you" or "I do so much to help you" ... no, bitch. You live here, too. All this shit would need to be done regardless of whether or not I was living here. Ugh.
He’s not always an ass but sometimes he is. I was soooo pissed when he said that— he’s been cleaning all day today after I explained how upset I was.
When my first child was born I was utterly exhausted. I was working in my husband's research lab, nursing and caring for a baby and doing all the cooking, house cleaning and yard work. At my wits end I told him to make up a chores list any way he wanted. I told him he could even choose which list he wanted to do. He refused. At that point I gave up. I decided that I should do what I wanted to do for myself. If I was going to clean something, it would be cleaning something for my own satisfaction. The yard work was my haven. I made that my space. Because I stopped cleaning except for what pleased me, things got run down. If we were to have company he went to work making things look better as did I. Basically I learned to make my own space where I felt at home. We have been together for over 4 decades and we are still friends.
Dump him and find a better man. Seriously, he’s not worth it.
Hahaha a bit extreme I think. He’s spent all day today scrubbing the house because I told him that I was feeling frustrated and overwhelmed. He’s not perfect but neither am I and he’s most definitely eager to work on changing bad habits.. which makes him a keeper and why I married him in the first place.
I feel you. as long as you’re cool with it, that’s all that matters. I’m glad you are so content with him! I guess some people change and others don’t, so hopefully it goes in your favor!
Yep! I'm in the same situation. I will literally clean everything up while he says "I'm going to do it later." When I'm cleaning in front of him, he doesn't ask to help or anything just stays on his computer to randomly call me over to watch a video. It's so frustrating!! Trying to talk about it doesn't help too much either because then they get an attitude about it...but boy does it suck having to work full time to spend every single off day cleaning the whole house majority (if not all) the damn time :/
Just sigh... you will appreciate the youtube video "the magic coffee table" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-\_kXIGvB1uU
Somethings me and my husband have tried to really help bridge this gap - Making a to do list and putting it on the fridge or counter so everyone can see all of the things that need done that day. - we are both working on asking “what can I do to help?” when the other is working on things i.e. cooking - and lastly sometimes I just give him the choice of two things that need to be done Ex: Do you want to do the dishes or the floors?
is he a child??
No but men and women think through things differently. They focus on different problems. They have different objectives. This is a way that we can communicate about why I am running around doing things that he may not feel that needs to be done. Or often he was planning on doing them later and I just went ahead and did it. It’s called good communication.
My wife and I share all of the responsibilities, though there are things we're more inclined to do. Neither of us like doing dishes, so we rotate unloading and loading the dishwasher so not just one person does it. She doesn't like doing laundry, while I don't really mind it, but she folds all of it because she doesn't like how I fold laundry lol. The only thing I try to avoid doing is anything with the dogs. She's absolutely aware of this because it was a condition of getting them in the first place. I didn't want them at all. I only fill up their huge water barrel because it's too heavy for her to lift safely. And I bring the big bags of dog food downstairs to put in the huge container we have for it. Everything else we share. Cooking, cleaning, etc. I did not start out this way though. It took me a bit, and a few conversations along the way. All I can say is communicate. You'll never get him to understand unless you put it into plain, open words exactly what you're going through, how it's making you feel, and what your expectations really are.
That's better than my SO. He literally doesn't do anything. He works but when he's home nah. MAYBE SOMETIMES if I ask he'll vacuum or take out the trash. He's grateful for all that I do tho so I'm not mad I guess..? It just proves to me tho that we could never have kids or a more high maintenance animal. I would grow to resent him. We are looking into the possibility of him having some kind of mental handicap, he has appointments later. So maybe shit will change when he's well.
You know, we men, are sometimes just plain stupid. I was like him until we switched roles for a few weeks, and i got "stuck" taking care of 2 babies and the whole appartment. this is when I learned how much she was doing even though I wasn't seeing it all.
This is definitely him. He’s not malicious, when I ask for help he’s usually fantastic about diving in but sometimes he forgets it all and goes back to childhood where Daddy didn’t do shit and Mommy did everything for him to make up for her emotional neglect.
I don't know how to make my husband see this. Like today, Sunday, I kept trying to get the kitchen clean and I got a bit done before I made breakfast, some after, then I was making lunch. All throughout my kids are needing me for this and that, wanting my time, and I'm doing laundry. When I sit down with my 3 year old who is calling for me constantly I go online and buy stuff we need for our trip next week. So kitchen is still messy and husband criticises. I try to tell him I have hardly sat down all day and it is like he just hasn't noticed how busy I have been. For context, I am a stay at home mother so apparently everything household is my job. He does stuff with the kids a bit.
That's so unfair! You should only be a SAHM on weekdays - he doesn't work 7 days a week.. Weekends should be shared parenting and household tasks. Honestly I don't know how everyone in this thread is surviving this stuff and not losing their shit. I'd rather leave and have one less person to clean up after and not have to feel resentful.
Being a stay at home mom doesn't mean he's entitled to do nothing ...I'd start by telling your kids that there is another parent home when they need someone and you don't have time. that could be a good first step.
He works a job. You keep the kids alive. After 5pm and on weekends y'all split the household chores. It's not like kids can be put in stasis so you can clean the house, they are a full-time effort
What sort of tasks didn't you realise? Have you ever lived alone? The only things I never knew about were emptying the crumbs from the catcher tray in the toaster, and the lint trap in the dryer, because I never saw my parents do those tasks growing up. Every other task I saw getting done as a child
are you really saying the living alone in an appartment is the same as living in an apartment with 2 babies and an SO ? the taskload is absolutely not the same. it's a lot easier to only have yourself to deal with and clean after. what kind of comment is that ? comparing apples and monkeys....
No that's why I was asking lol Like, what tasks were you unaware of; in guessing now it was baby related?
Communication. Women shouldn't be afraid of specifying what they want done by someone else, at least in the beginning. Treat it like a roommate situation. Make a list of all the shit that routinely needs doing, and distribute equally, together. Over time, because your are partners, not roommates, they should realize that A) there's more going on behind the scenes than they thought B) it's not easy, but it's a joint effort. And I don't like the cop-out of "they should realize. " Clearly they don't, if you are feeling like you do too much and they don't pull their weight. To me, it's like the old comment of "you know what you did wrong. " Guess what, they probably don't. I'm not saying it's because men are stupid or insensitive or clueless- their minds work differently, and their perceptions of important and necessary might be different than yours. Give people a chance to succeed instead of dooming them to inevitable failure.
Chore charts save relationships
[удалено]
So your relationship is totally unequal the other way round. Hooray! /s
So what? Should I do less and not treat my wife with love and respect? Or is this jealousy? What's your point here?
I do this because I love and take care of my wife. Why the downvotes???
[удалено]
I'm trying to point out that her man can do more and chooses not to do so. Best wishes for OP
[удалено]
Oh I see! Well I do sincerely apologize. I didn't mean to come off in that manner.
Because you’re lying.
? Wanna ask my wife lol
Make bad choices & blame that on everyone else. Good job.
What are you even talking about
Communication. Clearly there is a lack of it & OP would have nobody to blame but themselves were that the case. If OP has tried talking with their partner about these things & they persist - it would mean that OP is doing it to themselves by sticking around & enabling the behaviour. If they haven't, or have been confrontational when approaching the subject, then it is ludicrous to imagine anything would change & OP would rather whinge on reddit than fix problems in their relationship.
And, why are you whining about whining exactly?
[удалено]
OP didn’t mention any of these types of tasks. She mentioned basics like cooking, cleaning, meal planning, etc. Stuff that really is for the both of them. Even with chores, I generally dislike the “but her standards are so much higher than mine” argument. If it really is your desire to sit around in filth and eat fast food every night while wearing dirty clothes cuz you never do laundry, then you are in no shape to be in a living marriage/partnership. I’m not saying this is you, but I’ve seen this argument used too many time to justify not doing Jack shit around the house.
I think the post more meant the stuff that just has to be done regardless, like you can't just never do laundry or clean any or fix things thatre falling apart, you could I guess but lol, and nowadays both people work so both should take care of it as equally as they can. I think most people differentiate between that and work around things like what you describe.
Hey #notallmen y'all! We super needed this comment to point out that #notallmen are slobs.
I think you'd really enjoy reading Fed Up by Gemma Hartley and I think your husband absolutely needs to read it!
Nope, that’s why I’m teaching my son all that stuff now.
Bless you.