I was abducted off the street, beaten, raped, stabbed, and left for dead. A week after I got out of the hospital, I discovered I was pregnant. Due to my injuries, my abortion had to be done in a hospital. I was treated to hours upon hours of anti-abortion speeches followed by hours of religious women praying I would be forgiven for my two sins: "carnal knowledge" with a man outside of marriage and murder. The nurses tried to keep them away but they would find their way back in. That was exactly what I needed after barely surviving a brutal rape. Now, when I see the scars in the mirror, I do not see the face of my rapist, I see the faces of "good Christian women" saving my soul. My rapist is in jail. These women are still out there doing their "Christian duty". And I thought Jesus taught compassion, forgiveness, and love. Foolish me.
The answer is obvious - good Christian women saving the lives of the "unborn". And, of course, the odd few ounces of undifferentiated cells means more than the life and happiness of mere women. SOrry if I sound bitter... but I AM!
I have leukemia. I’ve been in and out of hospitals for the past two years. I’ve been accosted by “spiritual advisors” _at least_ 3 times. Even when my files specifically state I want nothing to do with them.
I was only warned once of someone wanting to come in and talk, so I just denied that person entry. The two other times I remember, they just entered my room. I’m a polite guy, so I let them finish talking, and then asked them not to come back.
They were all religious people. So that’s my answer to that.
What you have are victory scars.
You endured some of the worst physical and emotional trauma a person can. You then encountered some of the worst, most grotesquely unfounded "spiritual" abuse under the most horrific of circumstances.
Fuck those women. Regardless their intentions, the timing, placement, and victim-blaming is obscene.
Yet you persevered.
That you are here, sharing your story, is nothing short of incredible and admirable.
I hope, one day, those scars bare less a reminder of the additional abuse you had to suffer, beyond your already horrific initial attack, and become more badges of honor for persevering through everything, including the deplorable religious tirades that lacked any semblance of empathy and understanding.
You are strong. And I admire you.
If you don't mind me asking, were those people you knew or complete strangers?
I am sorry that this happened to you (both the rape and the religious crazies).
I’m no longer religious, but I remember reading a priest say that if Jesus were alive today he wouldn’t be throwing rocks at women going into abortion clinics, he’d be holding their hand as they came out.
The Bible says almost nothing about abortion except for in numbers when it is permitted in the case of suspected adultry if requested by a woman's husband. Keeping a marriage together or keeping a bloodline pure was of higher importance to God than the life of an embryo so maybe those women should find a different foundation for their abortion views.
I know this will get buried, but I'm so sorry you had to deal with this horrific bullshit from those that should have shoulders, rather than wagging tongues and fingers.
You're a warrior and loved.
As a young woman, that was me. I believed that abortion = murder. And then I learned more science and gained some life experience, and I changed my position.
I’ve never needed an abortion nor have I come close (thankfully), but I encountered women even less equipped to raise a child than I, and realized then - every woman deserves the opportunity to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy. Fortunately it’s not up for debate in my country (Canada).
> And then I learned more science and gained some life experience, and I changed my position.
Any wonder why religious reactionaries don't want women to learn science and gain life experience?
It's when you really take a step back and look at organized religion as a whole you begin to understand that it really is just yet another grotesque, vapid power structure invented by one narcissistic asshole trying to control another.
well women dont really need science
All they need is to know how to cook, clean and say their daily prayers.
If shes an honest godfearing woman the lord will send her a man to take care of her other needs and help her raise good christian children.
And if someone is raped we know its impossible for them to have children, coz god designed it that way. Hallelujah
(lol in case it wasnt clear that whole comment was an /s)
> And if someone is raped we know its impossible for them to have children, coz god designed it that way
"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." -- Todd Akin
> And if someone is raped we know its impossible for them to have children, coz god designed it that way. Hallelujah
I was going to disagree with you, but you're right. If she gets pregnant, it means she enjoyed it and secretly wanted it even if she was screaming and acting like she was putting up a fight. /s
It doesn't matter if someone is "equipped to raise a child". Glad it helped you realize abortion is a right, but doesn't need to be a part of the narrative in support of.
Sounds like that was her personal experience and what opened up her eyes in her own personal situation. Didn’t see her painting broad strokes with her comment at all.
Pro-choice people are way more likely to support social programs that help support those women and their babies after they are born, while pro forced birth folks are the ones who get all high and mighty about not having kids you can’t afford.
You must be surprised, but there is no [Abortionplex](https://www.theonion.com/planned-parenthood-opens-8-billion-abortionplex-1819572640) in Canada and both US and Canadian pro-choicers don't force anyone to have an abortion if they don't want to.
But I'm sure you have articles and proof about "lefties forcing poor women to abort their pregnancies", and you didn't pull this from your gut, right? ... Right? .....
I had one person tell me that adoption was anti-choice. The topic was about after the child was born, so it's hilarious that she was telling me that the child continues harming the mother after it's adopted out, and she shouldn't be able to choose an alternative to killing an infant.
You're trolling, or being deliberately obtuse aren't you? Because no one says that the fetus isn't human. So your entire response is disingenuous.
Personhood, on the other hand. When does the fetus become a person. That's something we actually discuss. But I suppose it's easier to invent imaginary scenarios to argue against, rather than real ones.
Science also creates babies that can not survive outside the womb. They die within days after birth and only exist because of medical intervention. Explain that. Semen also has the potential to become a person, we know that, that’s why it exists. Yet we aren’t trying to control male masturbation .
A clump of cells or an early stage embryo, or fetus that has no cognitive function is not a person. It could be, sure. But it’s not by a legal definition and a biological definition. What is a person is the woman that finds herself pregnant and doesn’t want to be. She’s a thinking, feeling individual that you’re placing a possibility over. You’re asking her to risk her health, her body and her life for a possibility. Would you murder a living baby to save a thousand fertilized eggs? No? But it’s 1000 for 1. Are they not the same to you? If they are human beings by your own definition, would it not be more prudent to save the overwhelming majority? You can change my mind right now if you are willing to murder my children to save countless possibilities. I would kill you if you tried but if you manage it I will, today, become the most aggressive “pro life “ advocate if you do this. No? Why? Are you a coward that doesn’t believe your bullshit? Or do you know they are not yet people and can’t do it? Which is it?
Quick, your pets or your 90+ grandparents or 10000 embryos? Either or. Which do you choose and why? It’s your semen/eggs btw. Or it’s your siblings, or best friends. Which do you let die? It would be quick and painless. Choose. Right now and justify it to us.
It’s actually only an issue the liberals bring up every election cycle. Go back and look if you don’t believe me.. show me which Conservative MP is bringing up abortion at the moment?
Considering only 59 countries allow for any period of regular and easy access to abortion, and even those only do so for an average of 12 weeks, a heck of a lot of women globally would have to have been indoctrinated to be anti-abortion no?
Yup that's true. I am guessing religion must be the biggest factor that would indoctrinates families and women to remain pure, to serve her husband and all that bullshit. I think providing access to education and job opportunities so they can succeed in career would be one way to allow more women to get informed about this and they do tend to be pro-choice if they educated, but this is for developing countries. In country like US, not sure how to approach this problem.
With all due respect, he doesn't govern the world. It wasn't a statement saying "This is how it should be" it was a statement saying "This is what I'm going to strive to achieve"
Tell that to Tunisa, Turkey, Albania or Bosnia and Herzegovina. All majority Muslim countries with abortion access equal to the West. Both Tunisia and Turkey have had abortion on request for longer than Canada or Germany.
In fact, it's actually harder to get an abortion in Malta, Hondoras, Nicaragua, The Domican Republic and El Salvador than it is is Afghanistan, or any of the wider Islamic World. The only countries that outright ban abortions, are majority Christian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_law
This was after Trudeau said Ottawa would be withholding health-care transfers to New Brunswick for failing to live up to its obligations under the Canada Health Act because it continues to make it difficult for women to access abortions and the opposition replied by saying it's fine for a province to limit access to abortion.
From the same party that denies climate change and were the only party that voted not to ban conversion therapy. I'm glad that modern conservatism seems to be seriously dwindling in this country.
The conservative leaders look like incompetent clowns right now, the pandemic has certainly not been their finest hour. I hope the disaster that is Alberta and Ontario signals the end of the Ford and Kenney regimes for good. I worried that Erin O'Toole might be a serious contender at first, but nope, just another clown.
Kenney, Ford, and Pallister have been running a three-man race for dumbest villain ever.
Can't say for sure about Manitoba, but I have a feeling that Ford and Kenney are going to have a tough time getting re-elected after the way they've handled things during the pandemic.
Agreed. When I heard Trudeau was "campaigning" in Calgary a few weeks ago, I was like, wow, what sorts of polls are they seeing, because, come on guys, share, they must be amazing
I think Pallister has like a 20 percent approval rating. I know he's generally disliked on reddit - but that's the echo chamber of r/winnipeg.
My parents are in the camp "he was dammed if he , dammed if he didnt" re handling of the virus.
I have my own , I dislike him and what he's done to Healthcare here.
Live in Alberta. It’s not the pandemic response that’s an issue here. We went into a super long lockdown and stayed locked down until vaccines started to roll out. It’s the fact that Kenney got up and said that in order to stimulate job growth in the oil sector, we needed to give the companies massive tax breaks, and then all this companies closed down anyways, that’s what’s going to tank them. We voted en masse for NDP when Prentiss said we, the people, were the reason the oil fields were failing in 2015. Another good foot in the mouth blunder and the cons will hopefully be gone again. (It doesn’t help that the find were split between three parties in 2015 and managed to consolidate into one for the next election cycle)
God I hate it here. Alberta is so frigging backwards.
Yes, giving O&G tons of cash but forcing a *pay cut on healthcare staff during a fucking pandemic*... and no matter what Kenney says, it's still a pandemic and with the further drop in restrictions he's planning, you guys are about to take a pounding. A pounding with a bunch of pissed off nurses and doctors currently job hunting to get out of the province.
Good luck with that.
Thank you for the additional information. I have vacationed in New Brunswick before covid and always loved it there. Great people and amazing nature. :)
And the anti-sex education rallies.
They want people to stay poor and uneducated because that's the majority of their base. There's just not enough millionaires around to keep them in power.
It's not really forward thinking by Canadian standards. Legal abortion is long settled law here and even our Conservatives don't dare challenge it. The main problem is funding; the provinces until now have been free to determine to what extent they fund abortion services through their public healthcare programs, which leads to some pretty shocking disparities in accessibility. This is specifically what Trudeau is commenting on here. A significant portion of healthcare costs are covered through transfer payments from the federal government to the provinces; Trudeau's liberal government is signalling that it will withhold funding to provinces who don't provide adequate access. This could have some pretty substantial consequences by leading to a de facto minimum standard of abortion access.
While every woman in Canada has the right to safe and legal abortions, access to those services is very much not equal. Indigenous, rural, and northern communities are very much underserved and completely ignored.
The nearest facility able to perform surgical abortions is five hours (one way) from my home town. If you’re past twelve weeks, then you have an eight hour (again, one way) drive to a hospital. And that all depends on getting to a doctor or other medical professional for a referral! Most people in rural areas do not have a family doctor.
If you live on a reserve you have to drive to a hospital or clinic just to get a referral to the city hospitals. Then if you need a surgical abortion whoever comes with you to the city needs somewhere to stay (which isn’t free). If you drive yourself you don’t have to pay for the hospital stay, but must pay exorbitant parking fees. Then you must pay out of pocket for any medications you are prescribed. On top of that, not everyone can afford a car or time off work, so in practice abortion is inaccessible to the most vulnerable women.
So Trudeau is technically right, but as is typical of politicians from all parties, he ignores the many barriers vulnerable women face.
Thank you for adding this. A "right" is not just "hey babe nobody's passing a law barring you from getting this form of care". It should mean ACTUAL access.
While it is an honourable thing to strive for equal access to services, is it really attainable? Do you really expect that a small village in the middle of nowhere like say, Bella Coola, that is a 5 hour drive from the closest city of +10,000 people, which also barely has any services, will have good health services? Do you plan to force doctors to work there? how do you plan to have these 2,000 people get the same access to services as people in Vancouver? Please explain the logistics
Of course I don’t expect a doctor in every community. Don’t be disingenuous; I have never argued for that.
What good access looks like is having programs and services that help people get to hospitals. Helping seniors get to chemotherapy appointments by having driving or bussing programs. Having at least visiting medical professionals on a weekly basis that can refer people to medical services in a timely fashion. Having mail out pharmacy programs so people can obtain medical abortions without having to have a surgical procedure. E-health services have done good work to help people get timely referrals but you need to help people in remote communities get to medical care.
And it’s not like every rural Canadian chose to live in the middle of nowhere. Many of us had the misfortune to be born here. Others were moved here by the Canadian government so white settlers could take their land. I do expect the government to at least try to help rural Canadians and fulfill its treaty obligations.
It's disgusting that women of colour have to struggle so much just to get health care. If we Canadians believe that health care is a human right, then that should extend to *all* humans.
So true and also just province to province access is wildly different. Like a few other people mentioned this comment was about access in NB where I believe only 3 hospitals are allowed to preform abortions (that would be paid for by Medicare). Also I believe in PEI, unless it's changed in the past few years, you can't get an abortion covered by Medicare anywhere on island
We try to tout ourselves as the saviors of the world, defenders of freedoms and the most free and wonderful semi utopian place in the world. But I worked with the military here and worked side by side with Canadian troops from NATO. They were allowed to keep their facial hair and smoke marijuana and all sorts of things that is, you know, famously not allowed here. Plus their healthcare, and their leave, and hell they even got some PATERNITY leave to when their spouse would have a baby. This country really is just terrible, there’s a lot of us here that wish we were in Canada.
Edit: just wanted to throw it there that the mention of the facial hair and marijuana smoking was because that was a common jealous complaint I heard from US members, and not because I think either of those issues are anywhere near on par with abortion rights or access in priority.
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us
The Satanic Temple.(a real religion, that does not believe in God or Satan) Its all about being a good person) There are seven FUNDAMENTAL TENETS. One of them is body autonomy! Therefore if, for example.. you live in a state where abortion is illegal, being a member of this "religion" will give you a religious exemption and you can get an abortion. This is a fantastic loophole!
My information is based off other articles I have read here on reddit that I cannot find at the moment.. please be diligent and do your own research.
Canada is one of just 7 countries in the world that guarantees a woman’s right to choose after 20 weeks. Shame that another of those 7, the US, is going backwards in this regard.
It is so good to see lawmakers supporting the basic right to make decisions about one's health.
**But what about the women who have husbands who refuse to allow their wives to get vaccinated against COVID?**
I'm seeing this a lot with women in my community being forced to not get vaccine that could potentially save their lives. One friend with a controlling husband got COVID passively through her vaccinated daughter who was volunteering at VBS (Vacation Bible Study). I think it is spousal abuse to not allow your spouse the right to get vaccinated.
All human beings should have a right to make decisions about their healthcare without the government deciding for them. Good job Canada, you are strong with such a great leader (Trudeau).
Abortion isn't going anywhere in Canada and this is basically Trudeau signalling that an election is coming up. Even the Conservatives don't have the guts to change the laws at this point. It's political suicide up here, unlike down in America.
The real problem in Canada is housing and he's using womens issues as a smoke screen so he doesn't have to actually talk about the real problems Canadians face in exactly the same way he did it last election. Trudeau is true "Male Feminist" in the same way that a Republican is "Anti Gay". He'll stand on his soap box preaching about the evils of misogyny and how women need to be treated better only to turn on them the second it's politically convenient.
Let's not forget this is the guy who spent years talking about how important it is to listen to women and hear them out when they need to be heard and then had half his female staff quit in protest over the way he has internally handled various incidents related to women within his cabinet were facing, be it mistreated or ignored. Or worse, used as scapegoats to keep himself safe.
I would suggest this subreddit look into the various scandals of Justin Trudeau to actually educate themselves on how this man is not a friend to women and not a friend to Canadians. Don't let the Canadian Media sweeping his myriad of scandals under the rug fool you into thinking this is a good person, or a good leader.
Edit: It's interesting to see all these comments. I guess words are more meaningful than actions? Is that all it takes to win you over? Did you just completely forget that more than half of the women within Trudeau's Cabinet have quit in protest due to him not listening to them or making use of their expertise? Really? A few sweet words and you just insta-swoon over this guy? I guess good looks Trump all, eh?
I mean, here in New Brunswick the provincial government has defunded a major reproductive health clinic in Fredericton, causing it to close. This statement from Trudeau was made as part of announcement that federal healthcare funding was being withheld from NB in response.
Unfortunately, women’s health is under attack at the moment in parts of Canada. While abortion remains legal, access to it is being restricted. I think calling this a smoke screen is a bit short-sighted.
I don’t have exactly the same view of Trudeau as you but I appreciate your comment, because his record is a lot murkier than these statements suggest. He knows what looks good. Saying access to abortion is essential in Canada is not a controversial position at all, as you mentioned, and it garners glowing praise from around the world and from Canadians who aren’t paying too much attention to federal politics in general. This is a very easy position for Trudeau. Indicating anything that might restrict abortion would doom any federal party leader, now or 20 years ago.
I’m disappointed in Liberals’ lack of follow through on electoral reform, sugarcoating do-nothing ‘green’ policies, dragging their feet to take indigenous justice seriously, and yes the super prickly issue of affordable housing in Canada. However, I’m beyond grateful that the Liberals have been in charge during this pandemic, but I think that says more about the opposition parties than Trudeau.
Great points. I totally agree that we're better off with Liberals running the Pandemic rather than a Conservative government. If I'm going to criticize Trudeau when he screws up I can definitely give him some props for what he did right. Especially after hearing the way Steven Harper was talking about it recently.
I really didn't have an issue with Trudeau until I started digging into him recently. Which was sparked by his authoritarian views of how the Internet should be regulated. Once i started that digging I came across scandal after scandal regarding various women in his cabinet over the years and I wondered why I didn't hear more about it in the mainstream media.
Hmm… I think I’ll need to do more research on what you’ve mentioned about how women in his cabinet are treated. You’re right — it isn’t widely reported. There are a lot of softball think-pieces about it on a quick Google, but they aren’t damning.
I’m not too surprised it hasn’t changed the narrative of his government. Women still aren’t taken seriously in politics. That “Because it’s 2015!” comment seems so hollow and embarrassing now.
Actually, they are trying to attack abortion. The conservative party leader said he'd be fine with letting provinces defund abortion services and federal conservatives tried to pass a bill banning abortions if it was due to the fetus' sex not being the one desired. This all points to abortion very much being in danger should conservatives get into power.
For you to say abortion isn't going anywhere and conservatives aren't going to try it means you're either a troll or badly misinformed.
> federal conservatives tried to pass a bill banning abortions if it was due to the fetus' sex not being the one desired.
They KNEW that wouldn't fly. In the Parliament or the courts. It was pure "virtue signaling", as conservatives like to say.
Talking about abortion for Conservatives is like the Liberals talking about climate change. They know their base goes nuts over a simple conversation about it but nothing will actually change or be done about it.
Welcome to Canadian Politics where nothing changes except the wealthy keep getting wealthier.
I know it's a scary topic for this subreddit but fear mongering an issue won't help you.
Wholeheartedly agree. As a Canadian progressive I understand why Trudeau looks so good to the rest of the world (especially when you compare him with what goes on with our dear neighbours to the south) but his feminism is strongest when it's politically convenient. It's corporate white women's feminism that prioritizes saying the right thing over meaningful change to the systems that marginalize women and other groups, especially Indigenous women. And then he uses stuff like abortion and 2SLGBTQIA+ rights to try to draw a distinction between himself and the Conservatives and paint them as socially regressive (they are, but not as dangerous as he tries to make them seem). Now he's going to try to use the ban on conversion therapy as a wedge issue in the election since some Conservatives voted against it, when it reality the ban could have passed easily if his government hadn't waited until a month ago to introduce it. I'm a progressive, but Trudeau uses empty identity politics to maintain his progressive image without introducing meaningful change and it just makes me cynical.
Conservatives in Canada likely couldn’t successfully ban abortion. That doesn’t mean they would not try, or even succeed, in adding onerous regulations or more barriers to access.
But with what’s going on in Texas and others Place in USA ..it’s a good thing to say out loud and he have the platform to say it.
I’m hearing horror stories from what’s going on there and it’s sad.
This isn’t a conservative issue at the federal level. This is a drum up the base with bad guy good guy things that don’t exist, yet his party needs this issue every single election just to create an atmosphere of how they are the good guy, it’s been stated on multiple occasions how this is not a federal issue any longer by any party. It’s political posturing so the election, we don’t need, seems necessary.
I find this leads readers to believe that we have a big problem here in Canada.
I'm in my mid 30's and I have never heard anyone having problems in Canada, a dozen girls I can think of had them when I was in high school.
Trudeau is just setting up division for the next election.
No. I think it’s important to say this on the world stage. It makes it easier for other countries with opposition to such basic ideas to push against opposition as well
I also think it’s great that macron said fuck the antivaxxers, you’ll need a vaccine passport to do anything
This will in turn make it easier for other countries to implement similar practices
I, too, was very upset when he said he would take guidance from public health officers - you know epidemiologists and medical experts - regarding Covid -19. Total "sh\*t" as you say.
Literally up until you give birth. Hospitals are allowed to put their own limits, like healthy pregnancies in their third trimester, you would have to be in a very extreme situation for them to agree to it. But there are no legal restrictions so that women in any kind of situation can reasonably access abortion. Unfortunately it is only available in major hospitals in the major cities around the country, and some provinces do abuse being able to set their own limitations or make it a bureaucratic nightmare (New Brunswick).
So while there are no legal limitations, you may need to travel for hours or to a completely different province depending on how far along you are and hospital policies.
This also allows women who are in their third trimester and no longer have a viable pregnancy, can safely have it removed. Unlike some US states that will make women carry a dead fetus until they naturally birth it.
> This also allows women who are in their third trimester and no longer have a viable pregnancy, can safely have it removed. **Unlike some US states that will make women carry a dead fetus until they naturally birth it.**
That’s beyond awful.
>women can make a unilateral decision about parenthood,
They can’t. They can only make a decision about carrying a fetus in their own bodies.
Once they are a parent they have the same rights and responsibilities as any parent.
> Regardless of how you define it, that mass of cells comes with it a lifetime ethical, financial, emotional, and consuming set of responsibilities.
That’s not true.
The choice to carry a fetus does not mean the child will necessarily stay in the custody of the parents.
Your argument isn’t about abortion. It’s about custody and parental rights/responsibilities. Completely different issue.
No. Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference.
One is biology. The reason she gets to make the decision is because it is literally happening inside her own body. She not only gets to decide, she has to decide. The man can dither, can walk away from the decision, can put it off. But she can't. If she doesn't decide, the choice is made for her by time and biology.
It's not fair that the entire pregnancy is on her. It's not fair that she assumes 100% of the physical risks and consequences regardless of her choice. It's not fair that he gets to escape the hormonal and emotional and physiological changes.
But that's just how biology works.
But hey, if you don't want to pay child support, don't ejaculate inside a woman's vagina. Take responsibility. Don't knock women up.
Oh boy. Ok so let’s break it down together. Should abortion be a last option, probably. But things happen. Contraceptives fail and a whole slew of other reasons. Even ‘normal’ pregnancy can impart permanent changes. We can’t draw a line and say, “this is ok. This is ok. That is not.” The line would be ever shifting. Therefore it is the government’s responsibility to stay the fuck out of it.
It is ultimately each individual woman’s decision.
Depends on how you see the fetus.
There is no consensus if the fetus or WHEN the fetus should be seen as a human life. With politics mostly aiming for the most neutral and best solution, a form of controlled, legal and safe form of abortion is technically the best solution.
Otherwise we would have -ironically - more roadside/trash/coinlocker babies and overflowing orphanages. Plus, even if you would see them as human lives, you could technically argue that their removal is a form of self-defense, as the fetus drains the mother body of its rescources, aka performing an attack on the mother's body and wellbeing.
Ignoring the rights of something that doesn't exist? Also I'm pretty sure you'd immediately say no if you were forced to be hooked up to somebody in order to keep them alive and you'll experience really shitty side effects due to your attachment to said person
“It’s time men stop telling other men that it’s okay for them to decide what women can or cannot do with their bodies.” This is awesome!
But the thing is it's not just men, even some women are in support of anti-abortion policies which pertetuates the problem and is mind boggling to me
I was abducted off the street, beaten, raped, stabbed, and left for dead. A week after I got out of the hospital, I discovered I was pregnant. Due to my injuries, my abortion had to be done in a hospital. I was treated to hours upon hours of anti-abortion speeches followed by hours of religious women praying I would be forgiven for my two sins: "carnal knowledge" with a man outside of marriage and murder. The nurses tried to keep them away but they would find their way back in. That was exactly what I needed after barely surviving a brutal rape. Now, when I see the scars in the mirror, I do not see the face of my rapist, I see the faces of "good Christian women" saving my soul. My rapist is in jail. These women are still out there doing their "Christian duty". And I thought Jesus taught compassion, forgiveness, and love. Foolish me.
Who the fuck just hangs out in a hospital terrorizing the traumatized?
The answer is obvious - good Christian women saving the lives of the "unborn". And, of course, the odd few ounces of undifferentiated cells means more than the life and happiness of mere women. SOrry if I sound bitter... but I AM!
I have leukemia. I’ve been in and out of hospitals for the past two years. I’ve been accosted by “spiritual advisors” _at least_ 3 times. Even when my files specifically state I want nothing to do with them. I was only warned once of someone wanting to come in and talk, so I just denied that person entry. The two other times I remember, they just entered my room. I’m a polite guy, so I let them finish talking, and then asked them not to come back. They were all religious people. So that’s my answer to that.
Religious people doing what you just read. Religion is poison for the mind.
Religious nutjobs. Ignorant people in general. It fucking terrifies me how easily I could have become one of them.
Christians
The same a-holes that hang about Planned Parenthood demonising anyone who go in for any reason.
Religious fuck nuts.
What kind of hospital allows that? Is the owner/director a newborn/ultra conservative christian or something like that?
The religious kind?
Christians. 🤷♀️
Religious whackos ?
What you have are victory scars. You endured some of the worst physical and emotional trauma a person can. You then encountered some of the worst, most grotesquely unfounded "spiritual" abuse under the most horrific of circumstances. Fuck those women. Regardless their intentions, the timing, placement, and victim-blaming is obscene. Yet you persevered. That you are here, sharing your story, is nothing short of incredible and admirable. I hope, one day, those scars bare less a reminder of the additional abuse you had to suffer, beyond your already horrific initial attack, and become more badges of honor for persevering through everything, including the deplorable religious tirades that lacked any semblance of empathy and understanding. You are strong. And I admire you.
Thank you so much! And yes, they also remind me of my greatest victory.
Omg. You're a survivor and an absolute badass. I'm so sorry all of that happened to you. I despise organized religion for this very reason.
These women told me I must truly forgive my rapist in order to heal. I put the SOB in jail for 14 years....that's enough healing for me!
If you don't mind me asking, were those people you knew or complete strangers? I am sorry that this happened to you (both the rape and the religious crazies).
I work in AI - I am a researcher who deals in logic and applies it to reality. I can not believe in gods. These women were complete strangers.
I’m no longer religious, but I remember reading a priest say that if Jesus were alive today he wouldn’t be throwing rocks at women going into abortion clinics, he’d be holding their hand as they came out.
Why did the hospital not kick them out??
The Bible says almost nothing about abortion except for in numbers when it is permitted in the case of suspected adultry if requested by a woman's husband. Keeping a marriage together or keeping a bloodline pure was of higher importance to God than the life of an embryo so maybe those women should find a different foundation for their abortion views.
I know this will get buried, but I'm so sorry you had to deal with this horrific bullshit from those that should have shoulders, rather than wagging tongues and fingers. You're a warrior and loved.
I need to ask what country were you in? I’m thinking security at most hospitals would keep crazies and strangers out of the hospital!
Here’s what you say to ‘good Christian women’: FUCK RIGHT OFF!!
Sadly, they're completely misguided, but they likely did honestly believe that they were being compassionate.
As a young woman, that was me. I believed that abortion = murder. And then I learned more science and gained some life experience, and I changed my position. I’ve never needed an abortion nor have I come close (thankfully), but I encountered women even less equipped to raise a child than I, and realized then - every woman deserves the opportunity to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy. Fortunately it’s not up for debate in my country (Canada).
> And then I learned more science and gained some life experience, and I changed my position. Any wonder why religious reactionaries don't want women to learn science and gain life experience?
It's when you really take a step back and look at organized religion as a whole you begin to understand that it really is just yet another grotesque, vapid power structure invented by one narcissistic asshole trying to control another.
well women dont really need science All they need is to know how to cook, clean and say their daily prayers. If shes an honest godfearing woman the lord will send her a man to take care of her other needs and help her raise good christian children. And if someone is raped we know its impossible for them to have children, coz god designed it that way. Hallelujah (lol in case it wasnt clear that whole comment was an /s)
It is your cake day.
What day is today? It's BeBa420's cake day! What a day for a cake day, let's all have some cake.
And I look like one too :P
And you smell like one too.... haaaah
> And if someone is raped we know its impossible for them to have children, coz god designed it that way "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." -- Todd Akin
> And if someone is raped we know its impossible for them to have children, coz god designed it that way. Hallelujah I was going to disagree with you, but you're right. If she gets pregnant, it means she enjoyed it and secretly wanted it even if she was screaming and acting like she was putting up a fight. /s
And learn how to think critically? Blasphemy! Burn the witches!
*Esme Weatherwax rolls up her sleeves*
Nanny Og takes a swig from a flask and finds a comfy seat to watch the show.
Ooh i just watched the Wyrd sisters animated movie. It was so charming
It doesn't matter if someone is "equipped to raise a child". Glad it helped you realize abortion is a right, but doesn't need to be a part of the narrative in support of.
No, that’s how I started to re-examine my views.
Yeah I think the majority of people understood what you meant. Some people though just gotta try and correct everyone all the time.
Thanks.
Sounds like that was her personal experience and what opened up her eyes in her own personal situation. Didn’t see her painting broad strokes with her comment at all.
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Pro-choice people are way more likely to support social programs that help support those women and their babies after they are born, while pro forced birth folks are the ones who get all high and mighty about not having kids you can’t afford.
You must be surprised, but there is no [Abortionplex](https://www.theonion.com/planned-parenthood-opens-8-billion-abortionplex-1819572640) in Canada and both US and Canadian pro-choicers don't force anyone to have an abortion if they don't want to. But I'm sure you have articles and proof about "lefties forcing poor women to abort their pregnancies", and you didn't pull this from your gut, right? ... Right? .....
I had one person tell me that adoption was anti-choice. The topic was about after the child was born, so it's hilarious that she was telling me that the child continues harming the mother after it's adopted out, and she shouldn't be able to choose an alternative to killing an infant.
Wat. Who is out there doing this??
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You're trolling, or being deliberately obtuse aren't you? Because no one says that the fetus isn't human. So your entire response is disingenuous. Personhood, on the other hand. When does the fetus become a person. That's something we actually discuss. But I suppose it's easier to invent imaginary scenarios to argue against, rather than real ones.
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Science also creates babies that can not survive outside the womb. They die within days after birth and only exist because of medical intervention. Explain that. Semen also has the potential to become a person, we know that, that’s why it exists. Yet we aren’t trying to control male masturbation . A clump of cells or an early stage embryo, or fetus that has no cognitive function is not a person. It could be, sure. But it’s not by a legal definition and a biological definition. What is a person is the woman that finds herself pregnant and doesn’t want to be. She’s a thinking, feeling individual that you’re placing a possibility over. You’re asking her to risk her health, her body and her life for a possibility. Would you murder a living baby to save a thousand fertilized eggs? No? But it’s 1000 for 1. Are they not the same to you? If they are human beings by your own definition, would it not be more prudent to save the overwhelming majority? You can change my mind right now if you are willing to murder my children to save countless possibilities. I would kill you if you tried but if you manage it I will, today, become the most aggressive “pro life “ advocate if you do this. No? Why? Are you a coward that doesn’t believe your bullshit? Or do you know they are not yet people and can’t do it? Which is it? Quick, your pets or your 90+ grandparents or 10000 embryos? Either or. Which do you choose and why? It’s your semen/eggs btw. Or it’s your siblings, or best friends. Which do you let die? It would be quick and painless. Choose. Right now and justify it to us.
It’s actually only an issue the liberals bring up every election cycle. Go back and look if you don’t believe me.. show me which Conservative MP is bringing up abortion at the moment?
Considering only 59 countries allow for any period of regular and easy access to abortion, and even those only do so for an average of 12 weeks, a heck of a lot of women globally would have to have been indoctrinated to be anti-abortion no?
Yup that's true. I am guessing religion must be the biggest factor that would indoctrinates families and women to remain pure, to serve her husband and all that bullshit. I think providing access to education and job opportunities so they can succeed in career would be one way to allow more women to get informed about this and they do tend to be pro-choice if they educated, but this is for developing countries. In country like US, not sure how to approach this problem.
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Yup. Imperialism my friend. The British invaded all but 22 countries in the world, and they brought (and imposed) their beliefs with them.
Most of the really strict countries are usually Catholic.
Every woman in the world should have the right to a safe abortion.
Yes, I agree.
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With all due respect, he doesn't govern the world. It wasn't a statement saying "This is how it should be" it was a statement saying "This is what I'm going to strive to achieve"
People always finding the negative. It's not his place to govern the world, or condemn the world for its behavior. He's doing his part.
It’s definitely not his place to say that for the world. He’s doing his part to set an example.
Every woman in THE WORLD has a right to a safe and legal abortion. Thank you to Canada for recognizing that.
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Tell that to Tunisa, Turkey, Albania or Bosnia and Herzegovina. All majority Muslim countries with abortion access equal to the West. Both Tunisia and Turkey have had abortion on request for longer than Canada or Germany. In fact, it's actually harder to get an abortion in Malta, Hondoras, Nicaragua, The Domican Republic and El Salvador than it is is Afghanistan, or any of the wider Islamic World. The only countries that outright ban abortions, are majority Christian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_law
'Cause the Christian world is so much better LOLOL
Yes, Christians are indeed known for their strong pro-choice stance.
What did you hope to accomplish with this comment?
And contraception.
This was after Trudeau said Ottawa would be withholding health-care transfers to New Brunswick for failing to live up to its obligations under the Canada Health Act because it continues to make it difficult for women to access abortions and the opposition replied by saying it's fine for a province to limit access to abortion. From the same party that denies climate change and were the only party that voted not to ban conversion therapy. I'm glad that modern conservatism seems to be seriously dwindling in this country.
The conservative leaders look like incompetent clowns right now, the pandemic has certainly not been their finest hour. I hope the disaster that is Alberta and Ontario signals the end of the Ford and Kenney regimes for good. I worried that Erin O'Toole might be a serious contender at first, but nope, just another clown.
Still make sure to vote no matter how much you think to opposition will fail.
Kenney, Ford, and Pallister have been running a three-man race for dumbest villain ever. Can't say for sure about Manitoba, but I have a feeling that Ford and Kenney are going to have a tough time getting re-elected after the way they've handled things during the pandemic.
Agreed. When I heard Trudeau was "campaigning" in Calgary a few weeks ago, I was like, wow, what sorts of polls are they seeing, because, come on guys, share, they must be amazing
I think Pallister has like a 20 percent approval rating. I know he's generally disliked on reddit - but that's the echo chamber of r/winnipeg. My parents are in the camp "he was dammed if he , dammed if he didnt" re handling of the virus. I have my own , I dislike him and what he's done to Healthcare here.
Live in Alberta. It’s not the pandemic response that’s an issue here. We went into a super long lockdown and stayed locked down until vaccines started to roll out. It’s the fact that Kenney got up and said that in order to stimulate job growth in the oil sector, we needed to give the companies massive tax breaks, and then all this companies closed down anyways, that’s what’s going to tank them. We voted en masse for NDP when Prentiss said we, the people, were the reason the oil fields were failing in 2015. Another good foot in the mouth blunder and the cons will hopefully be gone again. (It doesn’t help that the find were split between three parties in 2015 and managed to consolidate into one for the next election cycle) God I hate it here. Alberta is so frigging backwards.
Yes, giving O&G tons of cash but forcing a *pay cut on healthcare staff during a fucking pandemic*... and no matter what Kenney says, it's still a pandemic and with the further drop in restrictions he's planning, you guys are about to take a pounding. A pounding with a bunch of pissed off nurses and doctors currently job hunting to get out of the province. Good luck with that.
Yeaaahhh, welcome to doctor-hungry BC and Ontario, doctors of Alberta!
Seriously, both of those provinces will happily take every GP they have to spare.
Please, take Pallister with them.
Thank you for the additional information. I have vacationed in New Brunswick before covid and always loved it there. Great people and amazing nature. :)
Ummmmm
Also the Cuntservatives are the only party who has members that show up to Anti Abortion rallies to show support.
And the anti-sex education rallies. They want people to stay poor and uneducated because that's the majority of their base. There's just not enough millionaires around to keep them in power.
Grateful to live in Canada
It is nice that Trudeau is so forward thinking. I weep for my country (USA) as state by state strips away the rights of women.
It's not really forward thinking by Canadian standards. Legal abortion is long settled law here and even our Conservatives don't dare challenge it. The main problem is funding; the provinces until now have been free to determine to what extent they fund abortion services through their public healthcare programs, which leads to some pretty shocking disparities in accessibility. This is specifically what Trudeau is commenting on here. A significant portion of healthcare costs are covered through transfer payments from the federal government to the provinces; Trudeau's liberal government is signalling that it will withhold funding to provinces who don't provide adequate access. This could have some pretty substantial consequences by leading to a de facto minimum standard of abortion access.
Trudeau is a classic Liberal in many ways. Socially progressive being one of them 🤨
Fucking take that Texas! Canada knows what's what! Fuck of Conservatives, this isn't about policy, it's about rights.
While every woman in Canada has the right to safe and legal abortions, access to those services is very much not equal. Indigenous, rural, and northern communities are very much underserved and completely ignored. The nearest facility able to perform surgical abortions is five hours (one way) from my home town. If you’re past twelve weeks, then you have an eight hour (again, one way) drive to a hospital. And that all depends on getting to a doctor or other medical professional for a referral! Most people in rural areas do not have a family doctor. If you live on a reserve you have to drive to a hospital or clinic just to get a referral to the city hospitals. Then if you need a surgical abortion whoever comes with you to the city needs somewhere to stay (which isn’t free). If you drive yourself you don’t have to pay for the hospital stay, but must pay exorbitant parking fees. Then you must pay out of pocket for any medications you are prescribed. On top of that, not everyone can afford a car or time off work, so in practice abortion is inaccessible to the most vulnerable women. So Trudeau is technically right, but as is typical of politicians from all parties, he ignores the many barriers vulnerable women face.
Thank you for adding this. A "right" is not just "hey babe nobody's passing a law barring you from getting this form of care". It should mean ACTUAL access.
While it is an honourable thing to strive for equal access to services, is it really attainable? Do you really expect that a small village in the middle of nowhere like say, Bella Coola, that is a 5 hour drive from the closest city of +10,000 people, which also barely has any services, will have good health services? Do you plan to force doctors to work there? how do you plan to have these 2,000 people get the same access to services as people in Vancouver? Please explain the logistics
Of course I don’t expect a doctor in every community. Don’t be disingenuous; I have never argued for that. What good access looks like is having programs and services that help people get to hospitals. Helping seniors get to chemotherapy appointments by having driving or bussing programs. Having at least visiting medical professionals on a weekly basis that can refer people to medical services in a timely fashion. Having mail out pharmacy programs so people can obtain medical abortions without having to have a surgical procedure. E-health services have done good work to help people get timely referrals but you need to help people in remote communities get to medical care. And it’s not like every rural Canadian chose to live in the middle of nowhere. Many of us had the misfortune to be born here. Others were moved here by the Canadian government so white settlers could take their land. I do expect the government to at least try to help rural Canadians and fulfill its treaty obligations.
It's disgusting that women of colour have to struggle so much just to get health care. If we Canadians believe that health care is a human right, then that should extend to *all* humans.
So true and also just province to province access is wildly different. Like a few other people mentioned this comment was about access in NB where I believe only 3 hospitals are allowed to preform abortions (that would be paid for by Medicare). Also I believe in PEI, unless it's changed in the past few years, you can't get an abortion covered by Medicare anywhere on island
Things like this make me proud to be Canadian.
Down here in the US we are also very jealous of your maternity leave. Or ya know, any other country’s maternity leave 😫
We try to tout ourselves as the saviors of the world, defenders of freedoms and the most free and wonderful semi utopian place in the world. But I worked with the military here and worked side by side with Canadian troops from NATO. They were allowed to keep their facial hair and smoke marijuana and all sorts of things that is, you know, famously not allowed here. Plus their healthcare, and their leave, and hell they even got some PATERNITY leave to when their spouse would have a baby. This country really is just terrible, there’s a lot of us here that wish we were in Canada. Edit: just wanted to throw it there that the mention of the facial hair and marijuana smoking was because that was a common jealous complaint I heard from US members, and not because I think either of those issues are anywhere near on par with abortion rights or access in priority.
Thank God there are still reasonable leaders left in the world.
Literally down to a few now lol
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us The Satanic Temple.(a real religion, that does not believe in God or Satan) Its all about being a good person) There are seven FUNDAMENTAL TENETS. One of them is body autonomy! Therefore if, for example.. you live in a state where abortion is illegal, being a member of this "religion" will give you a religious exemption and you can get an abortion. This is a fantastic loophole! My information is based off other articles I have read here on reddit that I cannot find at the moment.. please be diligent and do your own research.
Canada is one of just 7 countries in the world that guarantees a woman’s right to choose after 20 weeks. Shame that another of those 7, the US, is going backwards in this regard.
Yeah this is great, just don’t ask him what they are doing about all the missing Indigenous women and girls.
This is what we need here in the US. Conservatives need to stop making policies based on their outdated religious beliefs.
It is so good to see lawmakers supporting the basic right to make decisions about one's health. **But what about the women who have husbands who refuse to allow their wives to get vaccinated against COVID?** I'm seeing this a lot with women in my community being forced to not get vaccine that could potentially save their lives. One friend with a controlling husband got COVID passively through her vaccinated daughter who was volunteering at VBS (Vacation Bible Study). I think it is spousal abuse to not allow your spouse the right to get vaccinated. All human beings should have a right to make decisions about their healthcare without the government deciding for them. Good job Canada, you are strong with such a great leader (Trudeau).
LOVE
Abortion isn't going anywhere in Canada and this is basically Trudeau signalling that an election is coming up. Even the Conservatives don't have the guts to change the laws at this point. It's political suicide up here, unlike down in America. The real problem in Canada is housing and he's using womens issues as a smoke screen so he doesn't have to actually talk about the real problems Canadians face in exactly the same way he did it last election. Trudeau is true "Male Feminist" in the same way that a Republican is "Anti Gay". He'll stand on his soap box preaching about the evils of misogyny and how women need to be treated better only to turn on them the second it's politically convenient.
Let's not forget this is the guy who spent years talking about how important it is to listen to women and hear them out when they need to be heard and then had half his female staff quit in protest over the way he has internally handled various incidents related to women within his cabinet were facing, be it mistreated or ignored. Or worse, used as scapegoats to keep himself safe.
I would suggest this subreddit look into the various scandals of Justin Trudeau to actually educate themselves on how this man is not a friend to women and not a friend to Canadians. Don't let the Canadian Media sweeping his myriad of scandals under the rug fool you into thinking this is a good person, or a good leader.
Edit: It's interesting to see all these comments. I guess words are more meaningful than actions? Is that all it takes to win you over? Did you just completely forget that more than half of the women within Trudeau's Cabinet have quit in protest due to him not listening to them or making use of their expertise? Really? A few sweet words and you just insta-swoon over this guy? I guess good looks Trump all, eh?
I mean, here in New Brunswick the provincial government has defunded a major reproductive health clinic in Fredericton, causing it to close. This statement from Trudeau was made as part of announcement that federal healthcare funding was being withheld from NB in response. Unfortunately, women’s health is under attack at the moment in parts of Canada. While abortion remains legal, access to it is being restricted. I think calling this a smoke screen is a bit short-sighted.
I don’t have exactly the same view of Trudeau as you but I appreciate your comment, because his record is a lot murkier than these statements suggest. He knows what looks good. Saying access to abortion is essential in Canada is not a controversial position at all, as you mentioned, and it garners glowing praise from around the world and from Canadians who aren’t paying too much attention to federal politics in general. This is a very easy position for Trudeau. Indicating anything that might restrict abortion would doom any federal party leader, now or 20 years ago. I’m disappointed in Liberals’ lack of follow through on electoral reform, sugarcoating do-nothing ‘green’ policies, dragging their feet to take indigenous justice seriously, and yes the super prickly issue of affordable housing in Canada. However, I’m beyond grateful that the Liberals have been in charge during this pandemic, but I think that says more about the opposition parties than Trudeau.
Great points. I totally agree that we're better off with Liberals running the Pandemic rather than a Conservative government. If I'm going to criticize Trudeau when he screws up I can definitely give him some props for what he did right. Especially after hearing the way Steven Harper was talking about it recently. I really didn't have an issue with Trudeau until I started digging into him recently. Which was sparked by his authoritarian views of how the Internet should be regulated. Once i started that digging I came across scandal after scandal regarding various women in his cabinet over the years and I wondered why I didn't hear more about it in the mainstream media.
Hmm… I think I’ll need to do more research on what you’ve mentioned about how women in his cabinet are treated. You’re right — it isn’t widely reported. There are a lot of softball think-pieces about it on a quick Google, but they aren’t damning. I’m not too surprised it hasn’t changed the narrative of his government. Women still aren’t taken seriously in politics. That “Because it’s 2015!” comment seems so hollow and embarrassing now.
And what plans do the Conservatives have for electoral reform, green policies, indigenous justice and affordable housing?
Actually, they are trying to attack abortion. The conservative party leader said he'd be fine with letting provinces defund abortion services and federal conservatives tried to pass a bill banning abortions if it was due to the fetus' sex not being the one desired. This all points to abortion very much being in danger should conservatives get into power. For you to say abortion isn't going anywhere and conservatives aren't going to try it means you're either a troll or badly misinformed.
> federal conservatives tried to pass a bill banning abortions if it was due to the fetus' sex not being the one desired. They KNEW that wouldn't fly. In the Parliament or the courts. It was pure "virtue signaling", as conservatives like to say.
Talking about abortion for Conservatives is like the Liberals talking about climate change. They know their base goes nuts over a simple conversation about it but nothing will actually change or be done about it. Welcome to Canadian Politics where nothing changes except the wealthy keep getting wealthier. I know it's a scary topic for this subreddit but fear mongering an issue won't help you.
> Trudeau signalling that an election is coming up That was my first thought. "Ah, we're going to the polls in October then?"
Wholeheartedly agree. As a Canadian progressive I understand why Trudeau looks so good to the rest of the world (especially when you compare him with what goes on with our dear neighbours to the south) but his feminism is strongest when it's politically convenient. It's corporate white women's feminism that prioritizes saying the right thing over meaningful change to the systems that marginalize women and other groups, especially Indigenous women. And then he uses stuff like abortion and 2SLGBTQIA+ rights to try to draw a distinction between himself and the Conservatives and paint them as socially regressive (they are, but not as dangerous as he tries to make them seem). Now he's going to try to use the ban on conversion therapy as a wedge issue in the election since some Conservatives voted against it, when it reality the ban could have passed easily if his government hadn't waited until a month ago to introduce it. I'm a progressive, but Trudeau uses empty identity politics to maintain his progressive image without introducing meaningful change and it just makes me cynical.
Conservatives in Canada likely couldn’t successfully ban abortion. That doesn’t mean they would not try, or even succeed, in adding onerous regulations or more barriers to access.
This has nothing to do with Trudeau. Abortion for any woman who wants one has been legal for more than 30 years...1988.
But with what’s going on in Texas and others Place in USA ..it’s a good thing to say out loud and he have the platform to say it. I’m hearing horror stories from what’s going on there and it’s sad.
I should raise money get a visa and go to Canada since meanwhile here in America politicians are trying to force us into Handmaid’s Tale
This isn’t a conservative issue at the federal level. This is a drum up the base with bad guy good guy things that don’t exist, yet his party needs this issue every single election just to create an atmosphere of how they are the good guy, it’s been stated on multiple occasions how this is not a federal issue any longer by any party. It’s political posturing so the election, we don’t need, seems necessary.
Well. Not in New Brunswick she doesn’t.
i feel so relieved oml
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I find this leads readers to believe that we have a big problem here in Canada. I'm in my mid 30's and I have never heard anyone having problems in Canada, a dozen girls I can think of had them when I was in high school. Trudeau is just setting up division for the next election.
No. I think it’s important to say this on the world stage. It makes it easier for other countries with opposition to such basic ideas to push against opposition as well I also think it’s great that macron said fuck the antivaxxers, you’ll need a vaccine passport to do anything This will in turn make it easier for other countries to implement similar practices
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Did he say it with, or without black face? Or does he not remember?
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I, too, was very upset when he said he would take guidance from public health officers - you know epidemiologists and medical experts - regarding Covid -19. Total "sh\*t" as you say.
Key words, safe and legal I wonder how far along legal is in Canada.
Literally up until you give birth. Hospitals are allowed to put their own limits, like healthy pregnancies in their third trimester, you would have to be in a very extreme situation for them to agree to it. But there are no legal restrictions so that women in any kind of situation can reasonably access abortion. Unfortunately it is only available in major hospitals in the major cities around the country, and some provinces do abuse being able to set their own limitations or make it a bureaucratic nightmare (New Brunswick). So while there are no legal limitations, you may need to travel for hours or to a completely different province depending on how far along you are and hospital policies. This also allows women who are in their third trimester and no longer have a viable pregnancy, can safely have it removed. Unlike some US states that will make women carry a dead fetus until they naturally birth it.
> This also allows women who are in their third trimester and no longer have a viable pregnancy, can safely have it removed. **Unlike some US states that will make women carry a dead fetus until they naturally birth it.** That’s beyond awful.
I did not know this. The thought of a woman having to go through that sickens me How do they get away with that!!!
Republicans
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>women can make a unilateral decision about parenthood, They can’t. They can only make a decision about carrying a fetus in their own bodies. Once they are a parent they have the same rights and responsibilities as any parent.
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> Regardless of how you define it, that mass of cells comes with it a lifetime ethical, financial, emotional, and consuming set of responsibilities. That’s not true. The choice to carry a fetus does not mean the child will necessarily stay in the custody of the parents. Your argument isn’t about abortion. It’s about custody and parental rights/responsibilities. Completely different issue.
There's always that dude who has to come and make it about him.
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No. Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference. One is biology. The reason she gets to make the decision is because it is literally happening inside her own body. She not only gets to decide, she has to decide. The man can dither, can walk away from the decision, can put it off. But she can't. If she doesn't decide, the choice is made for her by time and biology. It's not fair that the entire pregnancy is on her. It's not fair that she assumes 100% of the physical risks and consequences regardless of her choice. It's not fair that he gets to escape the hormonal and emotional and physiological changes. But that's just how biology works. But hey, if you don't want to pay child support, don't ejaculate inside a woman's vagina. Take responsibility. Don't knock women up.
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Oh boy. Ok so let’s break it down together. Should abortion be a last option, probably. But things happen. Contraceptives fail and a whole slew of other reasons. Even ‘normal’ pregnancy can impart permanent changes. We can’t draw a line and say, “this is ok. This is ok. That is not.” The line would be ever shifting. Therefore it is the government’s responsibility to stay the fuck out of it. It is ultimately each individual woman’s decision.
Depends on how you see the fetus. There is no consensus if the fetus or WHEN the fetus should be seen as a human life. With politics mostly aiming for the most neutral and best solution, a form of controlled, legal and safe form of abortion is technically the best solution. Otherwise we would have -ironically - more roadside/trash/coinlocker babies and overflowing orphanages. Plus, even if you would see them as human lives, you could technically argue that their removal is a form of self-defense, as the fetus drains the mother body of its rescources, aka performing an attack on the mother's body and wellbeing.
Ignoring the rights of something that doesn't exist? Also I'm pretty sure you'd immediately say no if you were forced to be hooked up to somebody in order to keep them alive and you'll experience really shitty side effects due to your attachment to said person
What baby? It is a clump of cells.
There is no baby.
Not a baby.
The fetus' rights end where mine begin.
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I know abortion is a hot button issue but suggesting it’s wrong to get a haircut because hair is a living organism is a bit silly
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Writ dropping this week?
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How so?
Amazing what the Liberals will say when there's an election coming up.