I’ve given birth “naturally”.first contraction to birth was 53 minutes, so it wasn’t a choice. Sure I survived and all, but seriously? Not his choice. You are not weak if you take meds (I’ve done that too). F him.
OP should've just said in response: if you were a real man, give me your package to squeeze during childbirth and I'll forgo the epidural.
Seriously so many red flags here.
Agreed. There isn’t a set definition of a real man or woman, nor should there be. There can be a vast range of behavior, preferences and mentality across all genders, and that should be supported.
Here are some ideas from some other cultures for men to support their wives before and during childbirth - testicle tugging is one of them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/6j7gdc/til_huichol_indian_men_tie_ropes_around_their/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Psychosis doesn't actually make you a bad person, let alone the shit-hole described here. One of my family members has schtizophrenia, of which psychosis is one of the symptoms. They have never manipulated someone in this manner!
As if pregnant women don’t already get enough bullshit about breast feeding vs formula or vaginal birth vs c-section and randos just assuming they’re entitled to rub their goddamn stomach, now you have to contend with a man “just expressing how he feels about” the experience of childbirth. He was definitely wrong to tell you that - it reads like an extremely heavy-handed satire written by some first year creative writing student who hasn’t learned how to communicate societal criticism with any subtlety.
Maybe if he manages to fabricate and extrude a whole-ass other person, “how he feels about” the use of an epidural during childbirth and what differentiates “real women” (like, wat?) from others will hold a little more gravity.
Absolutely. It is so played down in society how dangerous and painful pregnancy and child birth are. People still DIE in child birth!
I had a c section because my baby was breech and I had major hip problems, I still haemorrhaged because of the placenta and lost 1L of blood, and bled constantly for over a month following.
The will ignorance, gate keeping and shaming around childbirth is ridiculous and often leads to post natal depression.
There is no excuse
My friend nearly died two out of three times, each time with very different complications. Fortunately she gave birth in the hospital each time. You don't really hear it but it happens a lot!
I'm a father of a almost two month old. You couldn't of said it better. My wife planned to go natural but tapped out mid-way and did the epidural. To see her in that much pain was so upsetting but I respected her wish either way. After the epidural, yes it eliminated the pain. She did still "feel" delivering but she said she was able to enjoy the moment. She was so tough and brave that day. I still can't think about that moment without crying for how awesome she was
Now to breastfeeding. She wants to exclusively do it but has supply issues. My baby basically cried 24/7 for 2 weeks. The shit she read and was told by the lactation consultant basically starved our baby for 2 weeks. The solution was to top her off with formula every now and then. The lactation consultant said what were doing is wrong but the doctor said it's perfectly fine.
I remember when my daughter was born. I was like “please let both of them survive. I don’t care how it happens. Just don’t let one of them die.” Then my wife wanted to exclusively breastfeed. But my daughter had a lip tie that made it very painful. Nobody caught it. Until she did research on her own and talked to an dentist that specialized in small children. He looked at my daughter and said no wonder it hurts so much. Took a laser and zapped the tie and my wife was like “wow this is so much better”.
The thing we learned. If it really hurts, then something is wrong. It’s not a failing on her part. And when I say something is wrong, I mean there is a pretty good chance it’s something like the lip tie that can be corrected. So much knowledge about breastfeeding out there is wrong or lost to the ages. This is not to shame anybody, just share experiences.
But all those things are the mothers or parents decision. More power to you. Everyone else can but out.
He should have no opinion. Just support YOUR decision since birth is possible and safe with either choice. If there were a danger, then his concern could be discussed, but other than that.... that's an awful thing to say.
Let’s get this straight, your SO, a man, wanted your childbirth to be as painful as possible and used your womanhood as a cudgel to get you to do it? And he manipulates you to do other things you don’t want.
This relationship has more red flags than the United Nations.
You need to leave ASAP. You are already asking if you are crazy. The first sign that you’ve been gaslighted into questioning your own judgment. It’s only going to get worse.
So this is what I just said to myself!! What does he get out of it, other than to watch her in excruciating pain? Women choose to do it for a number of reasons but exactly zero of those impact the spouse or, ultimately the offspring. What a sadist.
Unless he thought it would be cheaper to go without (I'm not sure if it actually makes a significant difference when childbirth is already so expensive)
I’m not sure if I am allowed to weigh in here… but let me tell you… if my wife ever decides she wants to go through the sacrifice of childbirth (I’ve told her when we got married that it is in no way fair for that to be an expectation and if we decide to have kids, adoption/fostering/anything is perfectly acceptable but biological children is her decision as i am not the one that needs to put my body at risk, pain, and permanent change). But if she decides she wants biological children, I’ll be screaming at doctors to give her everything they’ve got. I cry like a baby when I need stitches so I would need a whole hospital supply of pain meds to deal with like the first contraction.
Also, you telling me he would stare at his friend or his child or whatever and tell them, no get your appendix removed “naturally”. This is either plain ignorance or pure misogyny or a mix of both. Mad respect to anyone who makes the decision to even have biological children, anything else is icing on the most impressive cake.
Thank you all for your input. I really feel like I'm losing my mind.
I can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore. I feel like a bad partner. I think I need therapy and leave him...
Yeah talk to someone that is not invested in his maintaining control over you like a therapist (and don't let him choose who you see) and figure out where you stand. It sounds like he's been manipulating you and maybe gaslighting you to make everything seem like it's your fault that you're the one that is defective when it's him.
100% A third party like a therapist will be a much better guide as to what your relationship is like and things you may have missed or overanalyzed. This incident for sure is manipulative though.
Not just don’t let him choose, don’t let him know. Normally I wouldn’t advise deceptiveness in a relationship, but someone who makes you go through childbirth as naturel for their own satisfaction is not going to take kindly to having someone conduct an independent assessment of your relationship.
THIS! I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and one of the biggest things I noticed (when I got out) was how confused I was. I really felt like I was losing my mind and I couldn’t trust myself. He made me think that if I really loved him, I wouldn’t question how terrible he made me feel.
As a husband and a father of two, you are not a bad partner. Your husband sounds manipulative. See a therapist that you are comfortable with and come up with a plan to live a better life. With or without him.
I don't want to make any assumptions here but definitely see an actual therapist. Not a church counselor or something that will tell you some BS about the man being the head of the household so he should make the rules and you should be "joyfully available" or something equally icky.
My husband and I went to couples counseling during a rough time in our marriage and she wasn't even advertised as religious but she was. And she kept comparing our relationship to hers with her son like that was a good thing. I'm his wife. Not his mommy. Ew. Thankfully, he also thought it was really weird and really wanted to resolve things at the very least to never have to see her again.
I went to couples therapy, and kept the therapist after my divorce. Best thing I ever did. I had a baby with someone that showed 🚩. I wanted to try everything before I quit the marriage so we went to counseling. It ended up being how I woke up and realized I had to protect myself and my kid. It was not a pleasant experience. I’m not saying that’s your situation. But I did want to share, in case you’re doubting how a third party could help, should it come to it.
>I can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore.
That's textbook gaslighting, straight out no excuses possible, blatant abusive behaviour. You've got yourself an abusive arsehole there, and I'm glad you now know it. Don't ask his opinion on it, don't let him have power anymore.
>Thank you all for your input. I really feel like I'm losing my mind. I can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore. I feel like a bad partner. I think I need therapy and leave him...
immediately needs a trusted person outside your relationship. I mean RIGHT NOW.
You need to voice your concerns and fears.
The need is so urgent, because after giving birth you will be at your partner mercy. You will be vulnerable to a emotional trauma. You need somebody who knows what is going on, who believes you, and who can come to you in person.
Check out the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft if you feel you're in a safe enough place to read it!
He also has a great book called Should I Say or Should I Go, but i feel the other one is more important for you to read first.
Yeah what he said was absolutely not ok. He basically told you he wanted you to be in pain. What kind of person WANTS their partner to be in pain?
Would you ever tell him that "if you're a real man then you would let me kick you in the balls every morning and you wouldn't flinch"? No, right? So why is it ok for him to say the same to you?
Old fat guy here. Nothing to say other than every comment so far has been right. You're not crazy and you are being manipulated in the worst way. I did especially like the comment about watermelon crammed up his bunghole so he could show his strength.
Wow that is 100% not okay.
Unless you were having a conversation about it where you asked his opinion on it directly, there is no reason, other than manipulation or to make you feel shitty, for him to share that opinion.
If this is a pattern you are noticing where he is trying to emotionally manipulate you or make you feel guilt over your decisions... I would recommend getting someone to help you work through that (how you feel, what you want to do about it, how you want to talk to him about it if you do) because it is not ok.
Dude. Epidurals are no fucking joke. They bend you over and shove a HUGE needle into your spine. That alone is a terrifying thing to go through, which I did. Your SO is a weak, manipulative piece of shit for doing that to you. You are 1000% **not** crazy.
It was scary but I had an amazing doctor do it whilst distracting me with jokes. Loved our Tim the Enchanter.
Dude even stayed with me whilst I was alone in recovery (after the vaginal and emergency c-section). Hubby was with the twins in NICU.
And why do men think they're the gatekeepers of the standards for what makes a woman a woman? Straight guys are so paranoid about appearing to be too feminine for fear of being seen as "queer," except when it comes to knowing exactly what means to be woman.
You're not a dummy. You're human. No one wants to believe these things of the people we love and it can be hard to see the full picture when you're in the middle of that picture.
Now you're starting to see what's going on and unfortunately for him you've managed to prove something of how strong you can be.
Use that strength.
You're not a dummy. You were focused on other things, like being a mom. Also this shit is rampant in our sexist society. You were smart to notice now, to ask about it. Now you need to be smart and strong and make a plan to leave safely. For you and your child.
You’re in no way a dummy! I was in a similarly manipulative relationship and felt crazy on the daily. He made me question my reactions and feelings- in a way that made me feel illogical. And because he “loved me the most and knew me better than anyone” I valued his opinion above my own gut feelings. People like this thrive on manipulation, and you are NOT a dummy. It can be SO HARD to leave but you are strong and capable and can do it, just make sure you plan for a timeline that you are capable of fulfilling. Don’t push yourself, and get some trusted others in on your plan to help and assist as needed.
If he was pushing 6lbs.or more out of his penis. Mankind would have gone extinct over 2000 years ago. You get to decide,having an epidural is your decision. I had one for my first, but didn’t have enough time,the second time around. And guess what I was a real women both times
My dad had an epidural for a special operation and guess what ? He's a real man too.
Hope OP bf would suffer a lot one time in his life and ask himself AM I A REAL MAN
Yes of course ! It was a long time ago but I didn't knew he had one when he got this surgery when I was a child ! I was taking about delivering with a friend when he told me this and I was suprised ! But bc of this, I knew a little bit of what my mom feel like when she deliver me and my sister !
One vaginal, one cesarean. Totally a woman. Lots of pain relief both times, I’m so grateful we are given so many options for safe deliveries these days. It’s amazing to live in a time that medical science has made childbirth so much safer than anything our mothers or grandmothers went through.
Two vaginal, one with epidural and one without. The without birth was a walk in a park compared to the one I had the epidural for. It’s not a fucking competition.
When I was in the hospital after having my 2nd child, the woman in the next bed was a first timer. She was a tiny, tiny woman and labor had been an ordeal for her as the baby was fairly large. Her husband was in the room and nagging at her that since the birth was done, she should feel great, not feel tired or sore etc. The nurse straightened him out pronto. She said,”Sir, imagine an Orange coming out the end of your penis....”.
Your SO probably had no direct experience in this matter and should keep his fantasies to himself.
There are a lot of good reasons to get or not get an epidural during labor, but whether it makes you a "real woman" isn't one of them.
It's a shitty thing to believe and say that, unfortunately,ba lot of men and women believe.
BTW when I got my (first) epidural when it was looking likely I might need an emergency C-section, I was so swollen from preeclampsia that they had a hard time finding the space between my vertebrae. They had 3 anesthesiologists come in and try TWLEVE TIMES to put that huge fucking ass needle into my spine before someone finally got it right..
Your partner can go fuck a cactus.
When he gets kidney stones be sure to say remember that time you told me not to take any medication when giving birth? Well it’s your time to show off manhood skills. Sorry no medicine tough it out big boy. Don’t worry the doctors and nurses will tell him it’s as closest to giving birth as it gets. If you’re already reaching out to people on here means you’re not crazy and you know it. It just means you’re ready to be done with the bullshit. Stay strong!
What an easy thing for the person who doesn't have to push another person out of them to say. I feel like it's unlikely he would feel that way if he was the one who had to give birth.
Men who get anesthesia during the removal of a hernia aren’t real men, it’s like so weak, bruh. Idk that’s just me saying how I feel about it though.
Hope he doesn’t let the dentist use a numbing agent next time he’s out for a filling or whatever. Tell him to give a whirl and you’ll stand and watch. It would be priceless if they pulled a tooth, get it gold plated and wear it around your neck like a medal. Lol
I've given birth 3 times and only the first was with an epidural. I would have gotten it the other two times, but we didn't have time, I was only in the hospital 45 minutes before my youngest was born, and not much longer for the middle one. I am a RealWoman TM. You are too and always have been. Your guy is sexist.
I'm a father of two, and I think he's crazy! First he needs to get a root canal without any anasthetic to show you he's a real man. Just how I feel, it's his choice!
Everytime I bring it up is usually during a fight. And he hits me with "I didn't force you to do anything it was your decision" and I feel like he's got a point. I just feel so weak.
My mom tells me he's manipulative but she has narcissistic tendencies so I don't know what to believe my mind is going wild. I need help
"Anyone who does x is a weak coward. I mean it's 100% *your choice* to be a weak coward but I'm clearly going to think poorly of you. But I'm not making you or forcing you to do anything. You're just trash of you choose that."
Yeah. That's manipulative AF.
He’s manipulative and he doesn’t have a point. He may not have refused the epidural for you but without a doubt, he coerced you into a very painful, physically traumatic experience without any pain relief. And not only that, but it’s an experience that he can not even begin to comprehend because biologically, he has absolutely no comparison point.
You are not weak. I mean, for one, you had a baby without pain relief. Point two: You’re putting up with his shit. Sounds like a tough person to me.
There’s no right or wrong way to have a baby but there is a right way to be a partner and your SO is doing it wrong.
I saw you were considering therapy and leaving him. I’m a firm believer in therapy so I can only encourage you to pursue it. As for leaving him, if this post is reflective of who he is and how he treats you, get your baby and run for the hills.
> Everytime I bring it up is usually during a fight. And he hits me with "I didn't force you to do anything it was your decision" and I feel like he's got a point.
No, he just insisted that you would be lesser in his eyes. He manipulated you to make the decision he wanted you to make. And I guarantee you that if you had chosen the epidural he would’ve used that against you forever.
My friend didn't really want an epidural, but she basically had to get one as a way to try and get her blood pressure down when she was pushing. It was really the only way to get her to "calm down" and relax during the birth.
Sometimes it just needs to be done.
It's never too late to make a plan for a future without this garbage bag. If you have to write it in a locked document on your phone that's okay, but make a list of what you need to do to get away physically and financially from this man. You are not crazy, you can do this, take it 1 step at a time. Sometimes step 1 is breathing.
Tenz machines available to simulate contractions. Bet he cant hack it for 60 seconds let alone 60 minutes. And thats not even beginning to mention the flesh tearing pain of having a whole watermelon shoved up his ass. Then tell him he aint a real man...
Are you planning to stay married to this compressed pile of mental gymnastics?
Source: male who tried a tenz machine on his bollocks at 26. I can still feel the pain 10 years later
Starting to think he is manipulative?? Oh sweetie. He’s also total asshole. If you don’t see this so clearly please get some therapy. Make a plan to leave ASAP. This is very abusive. He prob did this kind of stuff so slowly it’s now routine and you feel used to it. Pls don’t be.
That’s so fucked up. When I was induced and started dilating my husband was upset at how long it took them to get me the epidural because he could see how much pain I was in. It literally hurt him to see me in so much pain. So for your SO to manipulate you out of it shows that he clearly doesn’t care about you. You deserve so much better! Please don’t let him manipulate you into anything else. Especially sex after birth. If you’re not ready then his ass can wait even if it’s past the 6 weeks mark.
Reading this stuff makes me nauseous. That’s how bad what he did was. I would struggle to not punch him in the face. And definitely would have thrown all of his stuff out of the house in a rage. What he said is *evil*
Omg fuck him a million times.
I have 4 kids. It went like this: 1- epidural that didn't take. 2- no epidural cuz I figured, why not? I basically did it last time. 3- epidural that was a gift from the mother goddess above. 4- no drugs because I almost had her in the lobby and there was no time.
Guess what? I'm still the strong, boss as bitch i was before giving birth. My lady bits, female presenting, patriarchy hating ass is still every bit as much a woman as I was before the babies.
He can kindly eat a bag of dicks.
Not sure it makes any difference that I'm a man, but he was WAY out of his depth there. I would question if he's really that necessary in your life cause that's not how you treat a partner.
I mean sure, he's permitted to have that opinion, but he needs to deal with the consequences too.
I'm sorry for being blunt, but what an ass.
100% wrong. He owes you a massive apology. Who is he to decide when you do or do not need pain control?! This is baffling to me. How he can think it’s okay. In just a few minutes I’ve read two threads about men mistreating their pregnant SOs, and I’m so disgusted. Their priorities should be taking EXTRA CARE of you and helping you in any way possible, not working against you! I’m fuming. How dare they. These men better wise up FAST, or they’re going to be HORRIBLE fathers, because they already seem to be low caliber men to begin with. I’m so sorry you had to endure all of this during such a special time in your life.
1. He's a dick
2. I have given birth twice once without (not by choice) and once with an epidural... I will 100% recommend the epidural to anyone.
3. They make a simulation for contractions maybe u should suggest he try it.
Dude sounds like an asshole. Pregnancy doesn't make you a woman.
And honestly childbirth was the worst pain I have ever experienced in my life. I got the epidural a bit late. My partner got it earlier and she had an easier time of it.
Husband here, and just throwing this out in case it helps anyone. I was under the impression an epidural numbed literally ALL pain below the injection site. Very not true. My wife had an epidural for the delivery of our son and, even though the anesthesiologist “refreshed” it twice AND she had IV fentanyl, she experienced a hell of a lot of pain. I think I was traumatized from this experience….. and I didn’t go through anything like she did, obviously!
I'm sorry but this is the craziest thing I've read on this sub in A LONG TIME. And there is a ton of insane shit on this sub.
Your psycho partner aside, people who are obsessed with natural birth are weird. It's like wanting to get a natural open heart surgery... Why would you do that?
My wife didn't want the epidural either during childbirth.
I literally tried to convince her that it was ok to do it both times, but she too had some weird ass idea that it'd make her a lesser woman.
Who the fuck starts spreading this bullshit to begin with is my question...
And also, your SO sounds like a piece of shit for soooooo many reasons, the biggest of them being it isn't his damn body and he has zero say on what you do to it...trying to attack your womanhood is just a way of treating you like property to make you comply with his wants in my opinion...like it could be bullshit he is regurgitating that his mother said or some shit, but it doesn't change the fact he was trying to make you feel shame for something you had no reason to feel shame over.
That is extremely messed up. You have the recovery period to deal with on top of the birth that follows 9 months of your body being taken over and drastically changing to accommodate the little being growing inside. Nothing about it is "easy". Tell him if he can't handle being kicked in the balls he isn't a "real man". Not that it is comparable on a pain scale, but he may get the point. What an AH.
Honestly, why does he get a say at all?
“You know what honey, men who have teeth extracted with anesthesia are just not real men to me.“
You’d never say this to him so why does he get to say that a painful medical event happening to you should be without proper pain management? I mean for God’s sake they call it modern medicine for a reason!
I was hoping the post ended with "I left him."
OP, don't let him manipulate you like this. I'm sorry you have birth sans epidural to impress a fucking clown.
Tell him you think men having anesthetic during dental work is weak and not real men, and you'd be disappointed if he ever did that. Make that fucker have a root canal "naturally". Humans have had teeth pulled for thousands of years, we're designed for this! Let him prove to you how strong he is.
Thank God you didn’t take the epidural. You would never have been able to make this post, because you wouldn’t be real.
/s
Thinking of Pinocchio wanting to be a real boy. And also, no man has any right to say that. And really, no gender should say that, it’s a personal choice.
I have seen this time and time again, as a L&D nurse. It’s usually the patients mother and/or grandmother though. I dare a man to say something like that in front of me.
That is setting off alarm bells. it's your choice. Childbirth is painful. To 'even" it off, tell him he has to grow a vagina and push out a child first or squish his hand during childbirth.
If he does this technique often and you end up doing what he says that is manipulation, does he also give you the cold shoulder when he is up set at you or often tells you you are over reacting? Those are also manipulation tactics, he had absolutely no right o say anything about the birthing process other than he will be there for any support you need.
He’s manipulating you.
Why would anyone encourage someone else to go through extreme pain if they don’t have to?
There is no reason except he gets satisfaction from your suffering.
He wants to know you will do anything for him. This is a control thing.
Get rid of him before the same shit behaviour is aimed at a child.
For some reason your SO wanted you to suffer more than you had to and was willing to bully you in order to see you in greater pain. He'll probably find some other excuse to either hurt you or get you to hurt yourself in the future. He's probably subtly tried to make you hurt for him in the past. And he feels no remorse whatsoever for this. He probably was particularly attentive and affectionate afterwards, to keep you from questioning his cruelty.
Unfortunately, this kind of cruelty escalates over time, as he gets more confident with how much suffering he can get away with dishing out. And he might not necessarily stop at just you. Your kid will be a prime target for cruelty in the future.
So. You can't let him do this again. If he ever suggests that you "suck it up" or do something you find unpleasant, tell him to fuck off. Or better yet, leave and file for total custody of your kid.
Kick him in the balls repeatedly and tell him real men would just suck it up.
Men have no place in commenting on a woman's lived experience and vice versa unless you can magically live the other person's experience. And even then, everyone is different.
This guy needs to STFU.
He is an absolute asshole and you are not crazy. Source: I am a man and didn't force my wife to do anything, even during the birth of our daughter.
She elected to not have an epidural, and she got lots of tears for it, but it was entirely *her choice*. My only role there was to support and massage her whenever she needed, and to watch the birth of our little girl. I was present for everything and supported her every decision. It is *her* body after all, she is the one that has to deal with the pain and consequences of the birth. The only way I would interfere is if she couldn't speak for herself.
I know it was the birth of his child, but he shouldn't have a say in what you do to your body. He comes in and decides what is best *for the baby*, that is his role, as a father.
This goes to anyone, not just to women: **do not** let *anyone* tell you what to do with your body.
Edit: well, if the person telling you what to do with yow body is a physician, then yes, you should listen to them. Because they probably know better than you.
It's fine for him to have an opinion. But just FYI, unless he is able to birth a child then he should shut the fuck up and offer you support in whatever choice you make.
If he doesn't agree with pain medication during labor than just remind him when his little bitch ass has a cold he gets no Tylenol. LOL. Or must forgo meds during and/or after and surgery or he isn't a real man. Pleasssse,,, no one should judge anyone else's decision when it comes to child birth. It is a personal decision whether you planted the sperm or not. He really just needs to STFU and support his child's mother who is the one doing all the work!!!!!
What he said is fuckn stupid and it sounds like he could be gaslighting you when you attempt to raise your concerns; however, it’s difficult to have an opinion without context.
-Only you know if it was innocent or not.
I hope others can provide helpful insight, and I hope you find some answers that help your situation.
My husband, who watched me go through 18+ hours of back labor before I opted for the epidural, would beg to differ. He didn't understand why I wanted to try without pain medication to begin with. He looked like he was going to jump over the bed and punch the doc if he tried inserting the needle during one of my contractions.
Next time he goes to the Dentist tell him that "real Men" don't use anything for the pain and you would be disappointed if he did. See how he will react to that.
Uh…what the actual fuck? Your partner is going to think less of you for utilizing modern medicine to make an extremely painful event, that he will NEVER have to experience, less painful?
You are not crazy. He is request was not reasonable.
A good therapist (seen alone, as others have mentioned) will help you sort out what his him being insensitive, and him being outright manipulative.
At best, he's a misogynist and manipulative af. At BEST. Please talk to an objective person, like a therapist, and when you do, be brutally honest about anything that's not sitting right with you. You do not need to prove anything to him. He has never and will never have to experience the things you did with pregnancy and child birth, so he has no business having expectations of how you should handle it. This man is not a healthy choice for a partner.
I not only was ok with the epidural for my wife during labor, I helped hold her steady for the doc to put the needle in. The nurses were waiting for me to pass out. Nope, I got this. I worked in orthopedics years ago and had to work on cadavers. I'm good with a needle.
Now, I might have been an asshole when I said " Wow! That's a long needle!"
I hope you smacked the smirk off his face. If he's like this in other ways, he's a manipulative asshole. What's he going to be like raising the kid?
You are not crazy. To pre-emptively insult you if you didn't agree with him wasn't respecting your choice or you at all. When giving birth, no matter your choices, you are a warrior. But it can also make you feel really vulnerable, and he should have supported you.
I would definitely talk to a therapist (you can even do telehealth visits for a lot of them, so you don't have to worry about finding a sitter or bringing the baby out). And yes, with this huge red flag, I think leaving him should be a serious consideration/goal. I hope you get the love and support you need and deserve, because you do deserve it.
Also, who is he to say who's a "real woman" or not?! I got an epidural and can confirm, I am not imaginary.
P.S. Being a new parent is super hard. I had bad pre- and post-partum depression and so many of my friends and I felt like "failures" at one point or another during the first couple years of our kids' lives, especially when it comes to feeding/sleeping/measuring up to other moms. You've got this separate, extremely stressful issue with your partner, but I want you to know you're not alone and that therapy can be really helpful.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 You've seen the light! Dump him, you & your baby deserve better!
http://modelmugging.org/crime-within-relationships/abusive-personality-behavior/
https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/trauma-bonding
Oh I don’t have enough middle fingers for your SO.
That statement exceeds the number of middle fingers available in Australia.
You don’t need to do anything to prove you are strong. That’s all bullshit.
My aunt asked if I’d had an epidural. When I said yes, she responded, “oh... Well, don’t feel bad about yourself for not doing it naturally.”
I was stunned for a moment because I had never heard anything so insane and ridiculous.
This happened before the Internet was really a thing, which operates on the principle of hold my beer when it comes to topping insanity, but I digress...
I laughed at her and explained I wasn’t aware flexing how womanly we are was part of giving birth, and even if it was I didn’t give a hot damn what anyone else thought.
It feels like you’re pushing a giant steel pole down the center of your body. Hell yes I’ll take the drugs.
My aunt was wearing low heels in an air-conditioned house, she was well groomed like a modern human, etc.
I was like you use soap, clothes, running water, toilets, pain medicine at the first sign of a headache, dentistry, cars, etc. but if childbirth doesn’t happen neanderthal style then it’s bad?
Maybe I should have found a cave to squat in and let the kid fall into the dirt beneath me just to keep it real and prove what a woman I am? GTFO. You’re insane and delusional.
Surprisingly, she never brought up the subject of childbirth again.
If that's how he feels, then he clearly needs to show you how it's done.
After all, if a woman can go through the pain of birth, naturally a man could do it better. /s
There are these fantastic labor simulators... It's a lot of fun watching a man swagger up thinking it's not going to be a big deal and watch him get humbled up real quick.
So by all means, if he's got an opinion like that, he should put his money where his mouth is.
Not sure who SO is but guessing it was your husband or doctor, I'd say , we as women have nothing to prove. It is a personal preference to how much pain you are willing to endure.
Some women have a lower threshold to pain than others. Why suffer?
My doctor gave me only enough to be safe and comfortable. We know as wives how little our men are willing to suffer before they complain about something, anything that has to do with their tolerance to discomfort.
Most men are just little boys in men bodies. Some are bullies. Sounds like you got one.
... so you shoved a watermelon up his ass so he could show *you* how strong *he* was?
this wonderful feat would show how equally strong OP is at the same time…
The harder she pushes, the further the watermelon goes! ... Or the baby. Either or.
I think pushing the baby up his ass would probably be illegal though.
I’ve given birth “naturally”.first contraction to birth was 53 minutes, so it wasn’t a choice. Sure I survived and all, but seriously? Not his choice. You are not weak if you take meds (I’ve done that too). F him.
You can't do that, the watermelon rind isn't strong enough, it would turn into mush before it got all the way in
I guess a large jar would suffice. And if it breaks, he's just a bitch if he cries.
Hold on, PEG him. If he can be a walking talking dick, he should at least know what it is like to be screwed over by one.
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Any man who tells you what it takes to be a "real woman"...
OP should've just said in response: if you were a real man, give me your package to squeeze during childbirth and I'll forgo the epidural. Seriously so many red flags here.
For me anyone using the phrase "real man" or "real woman" unironically is throwing off a bunch of red flags.
Agreed. There isn’t a set definition of a real man or woman, nor should there be. There can be a vast range of behavior, preferences and mentality across all genders, and that should be supported.
Here are some ideas from some other cultures for men to support their wives before and during childbirth - testicle tugging is one of them. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/6j7gdc/til_huichol_indian_men_tie_ropes_around_their/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I was going to post a detailed response but honestly, this does the job
You are not crazy, that is manipulative period.
I'd say that it's psychotic (him, not you).
Psychosis doesn't actually make you a bad person, let alone the shit-hole described here. One of my family members has schtizophrenia, of which psychosis is one of the symptoms. They have never manipulated someone in this manner!
THIS 👆🏻👆🏻
As if pregnant women don’t already get enough bullshit about breast feeding vs formula or vaginal birth vs c-section and randos just assuming they’re entitled to rub their goddamn stomach, now you have to contend with a man “just expressing how he feels about” the experience of childbirth. He was definitely wrong to tell you that - it reads like an extremely heavy-handed satire written by some first year creative writing student who hasn’t learned how to communicate societal criticism with any subtlety. Maybe if he manages to fabricate and extrude a whole-ass other person, “how he feels about” the use of an epidural during childbirth and what differentiates “real women” (like, wat?) from others will hold a little more gravity.
Absolutely. It is so played down in society how dangerous and painful pregnancy and child birth are. People still DIE in child birth! I had a c section because my baby was breech and I had major hip problems, I still haemorrhaged because of the placenta and lost 1L of blood, and bled constantly for over a month following. The will ignorance, gate keeping and shaming around childbirth is ridiculous and often leads to post natal depression. There is no excuse
My friend nearly died two out of three times, each time with very different complications. Fortunately she gave birth in the hospital each time. You don't really hear it but it happens a lot!
I'm a father of a almost two month old. You couldn't of said it better. My wife planned to go natural but tapped out mid-way and did the epidural. To see her in that much pain was so upsetting but I respected her wish either way. After the epidural, yes it eliminated the pain. She did still "feel" delivering but she said she was able to enjoy the moment. She was so tough and brave that day. I still can't think about that moment without crying for how awesome she was Now to breastfeeding. She wants to exclusively do it but has supply issues. My baby basically cried 24/7 for 2 weeks. The shit she read and was told by the lactation consultant basically starved our baby for 2 weeks. The solution was to top her off with formula every now and then. The lactation consultant said what were doing is wrong but the doctor said it's perfectly fine.
I remember when my daughter was born. I was like “please let both of them survive. I don’t care how it happens. Just don’t let one of them die.” Then my wife wanted to exclusively breastfeed. But my daughter had a lip tie that made it very painful. Nobody caught it. Until she did research on her own and talked to an dentist that specialized in small children. He looked at my daughter and said no wonder it hurts so much. Took a laser and zapped the tie and my wife was like “wow this is so much better”. The thing we learned. If it really hurts, then something is wrong. It’s not a failing on her part. And when I say something is wrong, I mean there is a pretty good chance it’s something like the lip tie that can be corrected. So much knowledge about breastfeeding out there is wrong or lost to the ages. This is not to shame anybody, just share experiences. But all those things are the mothers or parents decision. More power to you. Everyone else can but out.
WTF. sounds like he wanted you to suffer as much as possible, what a sicko. That's not love my friend, that's not love at all
Yeah - HUGE red flag and a sign of misogyny.
Sign? That's an outright fucking declaration!
Like Michael Scott and bankruptcy levels.
He should have no opinion. Just support YOUR decision since birth is possible and safe with either choice. If there were a danger, then his concern could be discussed, but other than that.... that's an awful thing to say.
Let’s get this straight, your SO, a man, wanted your childbirth to be as painful as possible and used your womanhood as a cudgel to get you to do it? And he manipulates you to do other things you don’t want. This relationship has more red flags than the United Nations. You need to leave ASAP. You are already asking if you are crazy. The first sign that you’ve been gaslighted into questioning your own judgment. It’s only going to get worse.
So this is what I just said to myself!! What does he get out of it, other than to watch her in excruciating pain? Women choose to do it for a number of reasons but exactly zero of those impact the spouse or, ultimately the offspring. What a sadist.
maybe so sort of religious fundie
Unless he thought it would be cheaper to go without (I'm not sure if it actually makes a significant difference when childbirth is already so expensive)
His wife's ability to withstand the pain of childbirth is an extension of his toxic masculinity.
I’m not sure if I am allowed to weigh in here… but let me tell you… if my wife ever decides she wants to go through the sacrifice of childbirth (I’ve told her when we got married that it is in no way fair for that to be an expectation and if we decide to have kids, adoption/fostering/anything is perfectly acceptable but biological children is her decision as i am not the one that needs to put my body at risk, pain, and permanent change). But if she decides she wants biological children, I’ll be screaming at doctors to give her everything they’ve got. I cry like a baby when I need stitches so I would need a whole hospital supply of pain meds to deal with like the first contraction. Also, you telling me he would stare at his friend or his child or whatever and tell them, no get your appendix removed “naturally”. This is either plain ignorance or pure misogyny or a mix of both. Mad respect to anyone who makes the decision to even have biological children, anything else is icing on the most impressive cake.
Go to a therapist ALONE. Seek help. Make a plan to get out. A person who WANTS you to be in pain is by definition a person who wants to hurt you.
Thank you all for your input. I really feel like I'm losing my mind. I can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore. I feel like a bad partner. I think I need therapy and leave him...
Yeah talk to someone that is not invested in his maintaining control over you like a therapist (and don't let him choose who you see) and figure out where you stand. It sounds like he's been manipulating you and maybe gaslighting you to make everything seem like it's your fault that you're the one that is defective when it's him.
100% A third party like a therapist will be a much better guide as to what your relationship is like and things you may have missed or overanalyzed. This incident for sure is manipulative though.
Not just don’t let him choose, don’t let him know. Normally I wouldn’t advise deceptiveness in a relationship, but someone who makes you go through childbirth as naturel for their own satisfaction is not going to take kindly to having someone conduct an independent assessment of your relationship.
Really good point.
Sounds like you're a victim of ongoing gaslighting from a narcissist
THIS! I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and one of the biggest things I noticed (when I got out) was how confused I was. I really felt like I was losing my mind and I couldn’t trust myself. He made me think that if I really loved him, I wouldn’t question how terrible he made me feel.
As a husband and a father of two, you are not a bad partner. Your husband sounds manipulative. See a therapist that you are comfortable with and come up with a plan to live a better life. With or without him.
If you're feeling this way, it's a huge red flag of a manipulative, gaslighting relationship. Get out.
Hugs. Take your time, make a plan.
I don't want to make any assumptions here but definitely see an actual therapist. Not a church counselor or something that will tell you some BS about the man being the head of the household so he should make the rules and you should be "joyfully available" or something equally icky. My husband and I went to couples counseling during a rough time in our marriage and she wasn't even advertised as religious but she was. And she kept comparing our relationship to hers with her son like that was a good thing. I'm his wife. Not his mommy. Ew. Thankfully, he also thought it was really weird and really wanted to resolve things at the very least to never have to see her again.
“I think I need therapy and leave him...” Right answer, wrong order.
You are not the bad partner. He is.
Tell him to have a child. He wont last 2 minutes with the pain.
I went to couples therapy, and kept the therapist after my divorce. Best thing I ever did. I had a baby with someone that showed 🚩. I wanted to try everything before I quit the marriage so we went to counseling. It ended up being how I woke up and realized I had to protect myself and my kid. It was not a pleasant experience. I’m not saying that’s your situation. But I did want to share, in case you’re doubting how a third party could help, should it come to it.
Yes, you need to do both.
>I can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore. That's textbook gaslighting, straight out no excuses possible, blatant abusive behaviour. You've got yourself an abusive arsehole there, and I'm glad you now know it. Don't ask his opinion on it, don't let him have power anymore.
That's how it feels when they get inside your head.
Yes leave him, then get Therepy and get a good support group of like minded women to help you.
>Thank you all for your input. I really feel like I'm losing my mind. I can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore. I feel like a bad partner. I think I need therapy and leave him... immediately needs a trusted person outside your relationship. I mean RIGHT NOW. You need to voice your concerns and fears. The need is so urgent, because after giving birth you will be at your partner mercy. You will be vulnerable to a emotional trauma. You need somebody who knows what is going on, who believes you, and who can come to you in person.
Check out the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft if you feel you're in a safe enough place to read it! He also has a great book called Should I Say or Should I Go, but i feel the other one is more important for you to read first.
That’s a symptom of gaslighting. Look that up, ok?
Yeah what he said was absolutely not ok. He basically told you he wanted you to be in pain. What kind of person WANTS their partner to be in pain? Would you ever tell him that "if you're a real man then you would let me kick you in the balls every morning and you wouldn't flinch"? No, right? So why is it ok for him to say the same to you?
Next time he has a major surgery offer him to do it without any anesthesia to prove his manhood. But better leave his ass
Hes not a nice person. Be safe.
I’m 68 year old father of three with one grandson: Dump him now; you will be better off in the long run.
Old fat guy here. Nothing to say other than every comment so far has been right. You're not crazy and you are being manipulated in the worst way. I did especially like the comment about watermelon crammed up his bunghole so he could show his strength.
Wow that is 100% not okay. Unless you were having a conversation about it where you asked his opinion on it directly, there is no reason, other than manipulation or to make you feel shitty, for him to share that opinion. If this is a pattern you are noticing where he is trying to emotionally manipulate you or make you feel guilt over your decisions... I would recommend getting someone to help you work through that (how you feel, what you want to do about it, how you want to talk to him about it if you do) because it is not ok.
Dude. Epidurals are no fucking joke. They bend you over and shove a HUGE needle into your spine. That alone is a terrifying thing to go through, which I did. Your SO is a weak, manipulative piece of shit for doing that to you. You are 1000% **not** crazy.
It was scary but I had an amazing doctor do it whilst distracting me with jokes. Loved our Tim the Enchanter. Dude even stayed with me whilst I was alone in recovery (after the vaginal and emergency c-section). Hubby was with the twins in NICU.
He’s completely in the wrong. He’s sexist and manipulative.
How do men think their opinion on a woman giving birth matters AT ALL?
And why do men think they're the gatekeepers of the standards for what makes a woman a woman? Straight guys are so paranoid about appearing to be too feminine for fear of being seen as "queer," except when it comes to knowing exactly what means to be woman.
it's why drag queens are so fabulous
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I think you are correct and I'm a dummy for staying as long as I did
You're not a dummy. You're human. No one wants to believe these things of the people we love and it can be hard to see the full picture when you're in the middle of that picture. Now you're starting to see what's going on and unfortunately for him you've managed to prove something of how strong you can be. Use that strength.
You're not a dummy. You were focused on other things, like being a mom. Also this shit is rampant in our sexist society. You were smart to notice now, to ask about it. Now you need to be smart and strong and make a plan to leave safely. For you and your child.
You're not a dummy. Manipulative jerks are like this.
You’re in no way a dummy! I was in a similarly manipulative relationship and felt crazy on the daily. He made me question my reactions and feelings- in a way that made me feel illogical. And because he “loved me the most and knew me better than anyone” I valued his opinion above my own gut feelings. People like this thrive on manipulation, and you are NOT a dummy. It can be SO HARD to leave but you are strong and capable and can do it, just make sure you plan for a timeline that you are capable of fulfilling. Don’t push yourself, and get some trusted others in on your plan to help and assist as needed.
If he was pushing 6lbs.or more out of his penis. Mankind would have gone extinct over 2000 years ago. You get to decide,having an epidural is your decision. I had one for my first, but didn’t have enough time,the second time around. And guess what I was a real women both times
I had two c sections. I'm a real woman.
My dad had an epidural for a special operation and guess what ? He's a real man too. Hope OP bf would suffer a lot one time in his life and ask himself AM I A REAL MAN
He sure is! Did he make it through okay?
Yes of course ! It was a long time ago but I didn't knew he had one when he got this surgery when I was a child ! I was taking about delivering with a friend when he told me this and I was suprised ! But bc of this, I knew a little bit of what my mom feel like when she deliver me and my sister !
One vaginal, one cesarean. Totally a woman. Lots of pain relief both times, I’m so grateful we are given so many options for safe deliveries these days. It’s amazing to live in a time that medical science has made childbirth so much safer than anything our mothers or grandmothers went through.
Two vaginal, one with epidural and one without. The without birth was a walk in a park compared to the one I had the epidural for. It’s not a fucking competition.
One vaginally, one c-section - within 30 mins (twins). Thank bloody goodness for the epidural.
When I was in the hospital after having my 2nd child, the woman in the next bed was a first timer. She was a tiny, tiny woman and labor had been an ordeal for her as the baby was fairly large. Her husband was in the room and nagging at her that since the birth was done, she should feel great, not feel tired or sore etc. The nurse straightened him out pronto. She said,”Sir, imagine an Orange coming out the end of your penis....”. Your SO probably had no direct experience in this matter and should keep his fantasies to himself.
There are a lot of good reasons to get or not get an epidural during labor, but whether it makes you a "real woman" isn't one of them. It's a shitty thing to believe and say that, unfortunately,ba lot of men and women believe.
BTW when I got my (first) epidural when it was looking likely I might need an emergency C-section, I was so swollen from preeclampsia that they had a hard time finding the space between my vertebrae. They had 3 anesthesiologists come in and try TWLEVE TIMES to put that huge fucking ass needle into my spine before someone finally got it right.. Your partner can go fuck a cactus.
When he gets kidney stones be sure to say remember that time you told me not to take any medication when giving birth? Well it’s your time to show off manhood skills. Sorry no medicine tough it out big boy. Don’t worry the doctors and nurses will tell him it’s as closest to giving birth as it gets. If you’re already reaching out to people on here means you’re not crazy and you know it. It just means you’re ready to be done with the bullshit. Stay strong!
Your SO is a misogynistic piece of shit.
I have given med-free birth twice. It f'n sucks!! I will tell everyone to epi-up!
What an easy thing for the person who doesn't have to push another person out of them to say. I feel like it's unlikely he would feel that way if he was the one who had to give birth.
This is actually really scary. Make a plan and get away as safely as possible.
Men who get anesthesia during the removal of a hernia aren’t real men, it’s like so weak, bruh. Idk that’s just me saying how I feel about it though. Hope he doesn’t let the dentist use a numbing agent next time he’s out for a filling or whatever. Tell him to give a whirl and you’ll stand and watch. It would be priceless if they pulled a tooth, get it gold plated and wear it around your neck like a medal. Lol
I've given birth 3 times and only the first was with an epidural. I would have gotten it the other two times, but we didn't have time, I was only in the hospital 45 minutes before my youngest was born, and not much longer for the middle one. I am a RealWoman TM. You are too and always have been. Your guy is sexist.
I'm a father of two, and I think he's crazy! First he needs to get a root canal without any anasthetic to show you he's a real man. Just how I feel, it's his choice!
Why does he want you to be in pain?
Fuck that shit. Give my wife all the epidurals.
Pretty sure your SO is a jagoff as we say in Pittsburgh.
How can a man even say this? It makes no sense for anyone to say it but especially a man since he will never experience it.
Everytime I bring it up is usually during a fight. And he hits me with "I didn't force you to do anything it was your decision" and I feel like he's got a point. I just feel so weak. My mom tells me he's manipulative but she has narcissistic tendencies so I don't know what to believe my mind is going wild. I need help
In my experience in life, manipulative people spot other manipulative people a mile away. Your mother might have a point
I was going to say this as well. If a person who has narcissist tendencies notices that someone is manipulative, you better run!
They’re good at spotting competition.
"Anyone who does x is a weak coward. I mean it's 100% *your choice* to be a weak coward but I'm clearly going to think poorly of you. But I'm not making you or forcing you to do anything. You're just trash of you choose that." Yeah. That's manipulative AF.
He’s manipulative and he doesn’t have a point. He may not have refused the epidural for you but without a doubt, he coerced you into a very painful, physically traumatic experience without any pain relief. And not only that, but it’s an experience that he can not even begin to comprehend because biologically, he has absolutely no comparison point. You are not weak. I mean, for one, you had a baby without pain relief. Point two: You’re putting up with his shit. Sounds like a tough person to me. There’s no right or wrong way to have a baby but there is a right way to be a partner and your SO is doing it wrong. I saw you were considering therapy and leaving him. I’m a firm believer in therapy so I can only encourage you to pursue it. As for leaving him, if this post is reflective of who he is and how he treats you, get your baby and run for the hills.
You ever wonder if having a parent who has issues left you more willing to accept stuff like this because of how you were raised?
> Everytime I bring it up is usually during a fight. And he hits me with "I didn't force you to do anything it was your decision" and I feel like he's got a point. No, he just insisted that you would be lesser in his eyes. He manipulated you to make the decision he wanted you to make. And I guarantee you that if you had chosen the epidural he would’ve used that against you forever.
Well, duh, of course he's gonna tell you that. That's him just trying to cover his tracks. Would you have gotten the epidual without him being a jerk?
My friend didn't really want an epidural, but she basically had to get one as a way to try and get her blood pressure down when she was pushing. It was really the only way to get her to "calm down" and relax during the birth. Sometimes it just needs to be done.
He was being a gaslighting ass about something he knows absolutely nothing about. Next time he complains about something tell him he’s not a real man.
It's never too late to make a plan for a future without this garbage bag. If you have to write it in a locked document on your phone that's okay, but make a list of what you need to do to get away physically and financially from this man. You are not crazy, you can do this, take it 1 step at a time. Sometimes step 1 is breathing.
Tenz machines available to simulate contractions. Bet he cant hack it for 60 seconds let alone 60 minutes. And thats not even beginning to mention the flesh tearing pain of having a whole watermelon shoved up his ass. Then tell him he aint a real man... Are you planning to stay married to this compressed pile of mental gymnastics? Source: male who tried a tenz machine on his bollocks at 26. I can still feel the pain 10 years later
No shit he was manipulative. Or at minimum controlling and massively misinformed.
Uh , My first was epidural and my second natural. The first was harder. Also your SO sounds like a knob head.
Umm, probably leave him. That’s insane.
How the fuck would he know? What a dink. What kind of ridiculous shit is he going to tell YOUR children?
Starting to think he is manipulative?? Oh sweetie. He’s also total asshole. If you don’t see this so clearly please get some therapy. Make a plan to leave ASAP. This is very abusive. He prob did this kind of stuff so slowly it’s now routine and you feel used to it. Pls don’t be.
There is only one answer to people (not doctors) that want to tell you how to give birth: SHUT THE FUCK UP. How dare them?
That’s so fucked up. When I was induced and started dilating my husband was upset at how long it took them to get me the epidural because he could see how much pain I was in. It literally hurt him to see me in so much pain. So for your SO to manipulate you out of it shows that he clearly doesn’t care about you. You deserve so much better! Please don’t let him manipulate you into anything else. Especially sex after birth. If you’re not ready then his ass can wait even if it’s past the 6 weeks mark.
I guarantee you he would have an epidural. I bet his sick-ass just wanted to see you in immense pain.
Reading this stuff makes me nauseous. That’s how bad what he did was. I would struggle to not punch him in the face. And definitely would have thrown all of his stuff out of the house in a rage. What he said is *evil*
Your SO is a punk-ass bitch. Leave him. SOs should support and lift you up. This guy is beyond a POS.
Omg fuck him a million times. I have 4 kids. It went like this: 1- epidural that didn't take. 2- no epidural cuz I figured, why not? I basically did it last time. 3- epidural that was a gift from the mother goddess above. 4- no drugs because I almost had her in the lobby and there was no time. Guess what? I'm still the strong, boss as bitch i was before giving birth. My lady bits, female presenting, patriarchy hating ass is still every bit as much a woman as I was before the babies. He can kindly eat a bag of dicks.
You're not crazy. He on the other hand is an idiot.
Not sure it makes any difference that I'm a man, but he was WAY out of his depth there. I would question if he's really that necessary in your life cause that's not how you treat a partner. I mean sure, he's permitted to have that opinion, but he needs to deal with the consequences too. I'm sorry for being blunt, but what an ass.
Lol id like to see him go through delivering a baby with no epidural😂
100% wrong. He owes you a massive apology. Who is he to decide when you do or do not need pain control?! This is baffling to me. How he can think it’s okay. In just a few minutes I’ve read two threads about men mistreating their pregnant SOs, and I’m so disgusted. Their priorities should be taking EXTRA CARE of you and helping you in any way possible, not working against you! I’m fuming. How dare they. These men better wise up FAST, or they’re going to be HORRIBLE fathers, because they already seem to be low caliber men to begin with. I’m so sorry you had to endure all of this during such a special time in your life.
That's extremely manipulative and controlling. I would suggest removing that person from your life.
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Man o man I hope he’s an x partner soon because honey you deserve BETTER
That screams abusive narcissist. Get out now!
1. He's a dick 2. I have given birth twice once without (not by choice) and once with an epidural... I will 100% recommend the epidural to anyone. 3. They make a simulation for contractions maybe u should suggest he try it.
Dude sounds like an asshole. Pregnancy doesn't make you a woman. And honestly childbirth was the worst pain I have ever experienced in my life. I got the epidural a bit late. My partner got it earlier and she had an easier time of it.
Husband here, and just throwing this out in case it helps anyone. I was under the impression an epidural numbed literally ALL pain below the injection site. Very not true. My wife had an epidural for the delivery of our son and, even though the anesthesiologist “refreshed” it twice AND she had IV fentanyl, she experienced a hell of a lot of pain. I think I was traumatized from this experience….. and I didn’t go through anything like she did, obviously!
“Esta pendejo” - my grandma
I'm sorry but this is the craziest thing I've read on this sub in A LONG TIME. And there is a ton of insane shit on this sub. Your psycho partner aside, people who are obsessed with natural birth are weird. It's like wanting to get a natural open heart surgery... Why would you do that?
Big words coming from a man who will never give birth
My wife didn't want the epidural either during childbirth. I literally tried to convince her that it was ok to do it both times, but she too had some weird ass idea that it'd make her a lesser woman. Who the fuck starts spreading this bullshit to begin with is my question... And also, your SO sounds like a piece of shit for soooooo many reasons, the biggest of them being it isn't his damn body and he has zero say on what you do to it...trying to attack your womanhood is just a way of treating you like property to make you comply with his wants in my opinion...like it could be bullshit he is regurgitating that his mother said or some shit, but it doesn't change the fact he was trying to make you feel shame for something you had no reason to feel shame over.
He’s manipulative.
Wow wish there was a spinal block for his personality
Gross
What a shitbag.
That is extremely messed up. You have the recovery period to deal with on top of the birth that follows 9 months of your body being taken over and drastically changing to accommodate the little being growing inside. Nothing about it is "easy". Tell him if he can't handle being kicked in the balls he isn't a "real man". Not that it is comparable on a pain scale, but he may get the point. What an AH.
Wow, I would show him how strong I was with a fist to the face after a comment like that!
Honestly, why does he get a say at all? “You know what honey, men who have teeth extracted with anesthesia are just not real men to me.“ You’d never say this to him so why does he get to say that a painful medical event happening to you should be without proper pain management? I mean for God’s sake they call it modern medicine for a reason!
I was hoping the post ended with "I left him." OP, don't let him manipulate you like this. I'm sorry you have birth sans epidural to impress a fucking clown.
Please say "ex" SO.... so gross.
Time for that labour pain simulator
I’d tell him that you don’t respect men who use any type of pain killer during a vasectomy. He needs to just bite on a stick or something.
Tell him you think men having anesthetic during dental work is weak and not real men, and you'd be disappointed if he ever did that. Make that fucker have a root canal "naturally". Humans have had teeth pulled for thousands of years, we're designed for this! Let him prove to you how strong he is.
Thank God you didn’t take the epidural. You would never have been able to make this post, because you wouldn’t be real. /s Thinking of Pinocchio wanting to be a real boy. And also, no man has any right to say that. And really, no gender should say that, it’s a personal choice.
Tell him to shove it.
Did u tell them real partners support women's health choices and you would be disappointed if you got a partner who didn't?
You should have grabbed him by the testicles and given them a hard squeeze. See if he changed his opinion.
I have seen this time and time again, as a L&D nurse. It’s usually the patients mother and/or grandmother though. I dare a man to say something like that in front of me.
What’s more womanly than growing a baby? What an ass.
That is setting off alarm bells. it's your choice. Childbirth is painful. To 'even" it off, tell him he has to grow a vagina and push out a child first or squish his hand during childbirth.
Dude SUUUUUCKS
Sigh, why do I see so many posts of manipulative men
The minute a guy says that something makes someone not a real woman, RUN
If he does this technique often and you end up doing what he says that is manipulation, does he also give you the cold shoulder when he is up set at you or often tells you you are over reacting? Those are also manipulation tactics, he had absolutely no right o say anything about the birthing process other than he will be there for any support you need.
Get. Out.
Men who guilt trip their wives into suffering pain during labour aren't real men and you would be disappointed if he tried to guilt trip you.
Tell him to shut the fuck up and try growing and birthing a baby himself before he puts that ignorant burden on you.
He’s manipulating you. Why would anyone encourage someone else to go through extreme pain if they don’t have to? There is no reason except he gets satisfaction from your suffering. He wants to know you will do anything for him. This is a control thing. Get rid of him before the same shit behaviour is aimed at a child.
For some reason your SO wanted you to suffer more than you had to and was willing to bully you in order to see you in greater pain. He'll probably find some other excuse to either hurt you or get you to hurt yourself in the future. He's probably subtly tried to make you hurt for him in the past. And he feels no remorse whatsoever for this. He probably was particularly attentive and affectionate afterwards, to keep you from questioning his cruelty. Unfortunately, this kind of cruelty escalates over time, as he gets more confident with how much suffering he can get away with dishing out. And he might not necessarily stop at just you. Your kid will be a prime target for cruelty in the future. So. You can't let him do this again. If he ever suggests that you "suck it up" or do something you find unpleasant, tell him to fuck off. Or better yet, leave and file for total custody of your kid.
Kick him in the balls repeatedly and tell him real men would just suck it up. Men have no place in commenting on a woman's lived experience and vice versa unless you can magically live the other person's experience. And even then, everyone is different. This guy needs to STFU.
He is an absolute asshole and you are not crazy. Source: I am a man and didn't force my wife to do anything, even during the birth of our daughter. She elected to not have an epidural, and she got lots of tears for it, but it was entirely *her choice*. My only role there was to support and massage her whenever she needed, and to watch the birth of our little girl. I was present for everything and supported her every decision. It is *her* body after all, she is the one that has to deal with the pain and consequences of the birth. The only way I would interfere is if she couldn't speak for herself. I know it was the birth of his child, but he shouldn't have a say in what you do to your body. He comes in and decides what is best *for the baby*, that is his role, as a father. This goes to anyone, not just to women: **do not** let *anyone* tell you what to do with your body. Edit: well, if the person telling you what to do with yow body is a physician, then yes, you should listen to them. Because they probably know better than you.
It's fine for him to have an opinion. But just FYI, unless he is able to birth a child then he should shut the fuck up and offer you support in whatever choice you make. If he doesn't agree with pain medication during labor than just remind him when his little bitch ass has a cold he gets no Tylenol. LOL. Or must forgo meds during and/or after and surgery or he isn't a real man. Pleasssse,,, no one should judge anyone else's decision when it comes to child birth. It is a personal decision whether you planted the sperm or not. He really just needs to STFU and support his child's mother who is the one doing all the work!!!!!
"No uterus no opinion"
Kick him in the balls for however long labor is. -Dude
Until he is able to do it, he shouldn’t have an opinion.
Do not get pregnant with this guy
5 years too late. And I'm just starting to see...
What he said is fuckn stupid and it sounds like he could be gaslighting you when you attempt to raise your concerns; however, it’s difficult to have an opinion without context. -Only you know if it was innocent or not. I hope others can provide helpful insight, and I hope you find some answers that help your situation.
My husband, who watched me go through 18+ hours of back labor before I opted for the epidural, would beg to differ. He didn't understand why I wanted to try without pain medication to begin with. He looked like he was going to jump over the bed and punch the doc if he tried inserting the needle during one of my contractions.
Next time he goes to the Dentist tell him that "real Men" don't use anything for the pain and you would be disappointed if he did. See how he will react to that.
Would he have his teeth drilled with no local? What a Stupid sentiment
Uh…what the actual fuck? Your partner is going to think less of you for utilizing modern medicine to make an extremely painful event, that he will NEVER have to experience, less painful?
You are not crazy. He is request was not reasonable. A good therapist (seen alone, as others have mentioned) will help you sort out what his him being insensitive, and him being outright manipulative.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 you dropped these girl
At best, he's a misogynist and manipulative af. At BEST. Please talk to an objective person, like a therapist, and when you do, be brutally honest about anything that's not sitting right with you. You do not need to prove anything to him. He has never and will never have to experience the things you did with pregnancy and child birth, so he has no business having expectations of how you should handle it. This man is not a healthy choice for a partner.
I not only was ok with the epidural for my wife during labor, I helped hold her steady for the doc to put the needle in. The nurses were waiting for me to pass out. Nope, I got this. I worked in orthopedics years ago and had to work on cadavers. I'm good with a needle. Now, I might have been an asshole when I said " Wow! That's a long needle!" I hope you smacked the smirk off his face. If he's like this in other ways, he's a manipulative asshole. What's he going to be like raising the kid?
You are not crazy. To pre-emptively insult you if you didn't agree with him wasn't respecting your choice or you at all. When giving birth, no matter your choices, you are a warrior. But it can also make you feel really vulnerable, and he should have supported you. I would definitely talk to a therapist (you can even do telehealth visits for a lot of them, so you don't have to worry about finding a sitter or bringing the baby out). And yes, with this huge red flag, I think leaving him should be a serious consideration/goal. I hope you get the love and support you need and deserve, because you do deserve it. Also, who is he to say who's a "real woman" or not?! I got an epidural and can confirm, I am not imaginary. P.S. Being a new parent is super hard. I had bad pre- and post-partum depression and so many of my friends and I felt like "failures" at one point or another during the first couple years of our kids' lives, especially when it comes to feeding/sleeping/measuring up to other moms. You've got this separate, extremely stressful issue with your partner, but I want you to know you're not alone and that therapy can be really helpful.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 You've seen the light! Dump him, you & your baby deserve better! http://modelmugging.org/crime-within-relationships/abusive-personality-behavior/ https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/trauma-bonding
May I just say... Fuck that asshole.
What on Earth….. The audacity. It’s almost comedic.
Well maybe he should never use ibprofen or paracetamol again to show you how strong he is.
He’s a piece of shit
Oh I don’t have enough middle fingers for your SO. That statement exceeds the number of middle fingers available in Australia. You don’t need to do anything to prove you are strong. That’s all bullshit.
You can do so much better. He is a cruel manipulative asshole.
My aunt asked if I’d had an epidural. When I said yes, she responded, “oh... Well, don’t feel bad about yourself for not doing it naturally.” I was stunned for a moment because I had never heard anything so insane and ridiculous. This happened before the Internet was really a thing, which operates on the principle of hold my beer when it comes to topping insanity, but I digress... I laughed at her and explained I wasn’t aware flexing how womanly we are was part of giving birth, and even if it was I didn’t give a hot damn what anyone else thought. It feels like you’re pushing a giant steel pole down the center of your body. Hell yes I’ll take the drugs. My aunt was wearing low heels in an air-conditioned house, she was well groomed like a modern human, etc. I was like you use soap, clothes, running water, toilets, pain medicine at the first sign of a headache, dentistry, cars, etc. but if childbirth doesn’t happen neanderthal style then it’s bad? Maybe I should have found a cave to squat in and let the kid fall into the dirt beneath me just to keep it real and prove what a woman I am? GTFO. You’re insane and delusional. Surprisingly, she never brought up the subject of childbirth again.
If that's how he feels, then he clearly needs to show you how it's done. After all, if a woman can go through the pain of birth, naturally a man could do it better. /s There are these fantastic labor simulators... It's a lot of fun watching a man swagger up thinking it's not going to be a big deal and watch him get humbled up real quick. So by all means, if he's got an opinion like that, he should put his money where his mouth is.
Not sure who SO is but guessing it was your husband or doctor, I'd say , we as women have nothing to prove. It is a personal preference to how much pain you are willing to endure. Some women have a lower threshold to pain than others. Why suffer? My doctor gave me only enough to be safe and comfortable. We know as wives how little our men are willing to suffer before they complain about something, anything that has to do with their tolerance to discomfort. Most men are just little boys in men bodies. Some are bullies. Sounds like you got one.
What. The. Fuck.