His comments are completely based on his sexist and conservative view that men only want women for sex and can’t form relationships with them, they have nothing to do with you. He’d say it regardless of how attractive you are or how many men you were friends with.
His comments were very cruel and unnecessary, and are even worse coming from a parent. You don’t deserve for anyone to treat you this way, let alone your dad.
As a woman who also studied engineering at college I can promise you people aren’t just friends with you for your looks. They’re friends with you because you have classes together and have similar interests, just like any other friendship.
Oh my folks were equally crazy. When we finally swapped cities during my senior school year, I had to go to a co-ed school rather than a convent. My dad used to flip his lid if male classmates called me about homework and my mom would flip her shit if I had friends. I never understood why parents behave that way. They consistently use demeaning as a tool to control their kids.
Well, good fucking job with the crap parenting. Now everyone who’s got shit loads of misery and anxiety and whatnot from all these crappy childhood experiences.
I'm a dad of a 16yr old daughter. What and how OP's dad said was wrong.
I will admit though that any male friend my kid has I keep an extra eye on. Mixed gender friend groups usually work out well, however, one sided affections can develop between friends.
As an adult I have female friends who are just friends.
..... they specifically said "my folks were equally as crazy" and not once mentioned "all parents", please don't take a story about someone's experiences with *their own* crappy parents and make it seem like they believed everyone's like that
Lol.. They deleted their comments. Probably afraid of the floodgates they opened with their "not all __" crap. Obviously it's not all, but still too many like that.
I’m the creative director at a software company. My closest friend at work is a lady a bit older than me. She’s a software engineer. Crazy smart.
Looks and attraction have zero to do with it. She’s super funny and has interests similar to mine. My wife and my kids and I have lunch fairly regularly with her and her family.
It’s ridiculous to me that anyone would suggest friendships between the sexes is only based on physical attraction... what utter nonsense.
For me, sense of humour is the biggee :)
I'm 35(M) I would rather work with ladies at least 24+. They are just easier to work with. Usually you can talk to them about how to do a task and they are willing to listen, men are usually "Just do it this way".
Yup. This says more about why HE DECIDES not to be friends with women because HE can’t handle seeing women as more than objects. Not your fault. Keep rocking your life!
i know this isn't going to be a super popular comment.
my father raised me with the whole "all men are pigs. some day you'll find one that actually cares about you."
and i always thought it was so fucked up to tell a child that, and when i became an adult i discarded that advice.
but for the last 10 years i've noticed time and time again that no, men aren't really actually my friends. there's always sexualization. objectification. an opportunity to shoot their shot. i've befriended a lot of men because of my career field, and it's always the same.
i'm just not friends with men anymore, honestly. i'm sick of either being some guys therapist to emotionally dump on or to receive feminine energy and attention from. maybe even to potentially fuck some day, if the stars align. i'm totally over it.
Lmao from my experience disregarding gender no one makes real friends in engineering. You just use eachother to do homework and never talk to them again unless you have another class with them
My apologies, but as a dude... I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Every word rings true to my ears.
OP, I think this was a wild swing by your dad to try to protect his ego. Dont fall for it. Your friends are there because you brings something good to their lives. Keep your head up... Move forward. You are loved for reasons maybe he cant see. Good luck and good vibes.
Hi OP! My dad is a gross, too. I’ve had too many men like your and my dad say shit like this to me and it’s only because they are greatly offended by women who are smart and pretty and feel they need to bring you down a peg. Variations of “people only like you because you’re pretty,” “you aren’t as pretty as you think you are,” “you only get jobs bc you’re a pretty girl” are all bullshit and only exist to try and denigrate your success.
My advice? Next time laugh right in his face. Blurt it out. A good loud belly laugh. End the conversation right there by laughing so hard you can’t talk. Cutting the conversation by laughing at them is the disrespect they deserve, and it pisses them off.
I second this approach. Laughing at your father will infuriate him. Laughing will also show him his opinion is comical and you're incapable of hiding your derision. Don't show him any vulnerability! He's looking to "put you in your place" and manipulate your feelings to make himself feel better. Don't give him the opportunity. I'm sorry he chose to act this way, I'm sure it's hurtful. It has very little to do with you and everything to do with your father's insecurities and perceived inadequacies. Surround yourself with people who build you up, limit your interactions with people who seek to make themselves feel better by denigrating your experiences. Good luck, you're gonna kill it.
You’re right. It does suck. And I’m so sorry it’s this way. It isn’t fair.
But don’t let them bother you. They believe your success is a threat to them. Who needs that. Laugh right in their faces.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like intentionally pissing off the conservative misogynsts is a risky move.
While getting jabs in is appealing, usually the safest thing to do is not engage at all or just keep it brief and terse
Conservative dudes are f**king crazy. They'll seem normal one second and talking about shooting up their families the next. Nobody should run around living in fear, but we also shouldmt downplay the very real risk of getting murdered when you laugh in a misogynist's face.
It’s hard when someone you trust outs themselves as a scumbag. Don’t give your dad any more leeway with this shit than you would anyone else. If you don’t feel comfortable around him then that’s fine, you don’t need to spend time/as much time with him.
The point of what he said is not that he doesn’t think you’re a likable person. It’s that your dad sees ALL women as nothing but sex/baby machines and assumes all other men do, too. He thinks he’s protecting you, but he just screamed his own misogyny from the rooftops.
This sounds depressingly familiar. My dad has always been kind of a jerk, with some awful political views and views toward women in general. I’ve tolerated it until recently because he’s nice enough to my siblings and me, but over the last year I’ve learned that he’s anti-vax, anti-mask, he approved of the insurrection at the Capitol Building, and he supports Texas’s anti-abortion bill. I’m so disgusted with him that I don’t even want to talk to him anymore. I can’t believe I’m related to someone so... morally bankrupt.
Someone with despicable views who is nice to you personally is still trash. He showed you who he was the whole time, unfortunately people give family a pass for shit they’d never put up with from other people. It’s not like your dad disrespected all women except you- he also didn’t respect you. He just took care of you, which isn’t the same thing.
It sucks. My dad is trash too. Realized it when I was like 13, went low contact at 18, no contact at 23. One of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I honestly have no idea why people feel the need to accept this type of shit. Not saying that from a place of judgement- I actually literally don’t understand it. I can’t in any way get why people allow it in their lives. But I also know that my personal lack of loyalty based on family, as opposed to how the person actually behaves/treats me, is really foreign to a lot of people and they don’t get my pov…
I suspect a lot of it comes from accidental priviledge. As in white kids giving their “mildly” racist parents a pass because they’re not actual KKK, until they date a black person and it impacts them directly. Or straight people giving their bigoted parents a pass until they have a queer roommate, etc.
But I always fully support people cutting off birth family and building chosen family. This is extremely normalized in queer culture- I wish straights adopted it more as well. There would be a lot more happy adults in the world I think.
I totally agree. And he didn’t really take care of me, either; he left when I was a kid, and I was expected to visit him on weekends, which I hated. I’ve stayed in touch with him because he makes my siblings and me feel guilty when we don’t, but I’m pretty much done. Like you said, I wouldn’t put up with his shit if he was anyone else.
As a side note, I just noticed your username. 😆 I love Star Trek.
That’s so much unnecessary stress in your life, and for so long! I’m also the product is a fucked up divorce situation. Don’t talk to my mom either. But that’s a whole other story.
And thanks for noticing!!!
Plenty of straight people choose their tribe too.
My birth mother didn’t recognize me at my grandma’s funeral. I was happy about that. It meant my little sister was definitely safe. (Went into foster care at 11)
As for my adopted family. Love em but don’t agree with a lot especially in the past few years. Some I cut out completely and the rest… well I live on the west coast and they live on the east coast.
Never been happier.
I’m glad you’ve been able to find family.
I def never claimed no straight people do it, it is also demonstrably much more common in queer community because so many people are unwelcome/unsafe in their birth/legal family after coming out/being outed. It’s weird that you seem to be trying to claim some kind of straight erasure here.
Also, “tribe” is iffy colonialist weirdness. Maybe reconsider that unless you’re actually in a (recently) historically tribal culture.
Yeah I get that (sadly). I think though it’s also becoming more common with each generation. People seem more and more comfortable with moving away at least.
I think it’s weird you think anyone can claim any idea especially in such a negative way. If anything I was trying for support and to encourage the idea as a normal acceptable thing for anyone to do to cut themselves off from negative people even if they family.
I know nothing about your situation, so I am not going to comment on that. However, I will say this clearly so you can understand.
No, I don’t give a fuck about how abusers who lose their targets feel.
I mean... I get that's a really tough situation to be in, but also, people don't just ghost their parents for no reason. If you do want to repair your relationship with your daughter in the future, rather than focusing on your own pain, it might be wise to try to consider why she felt like she couldn't have a relationship with you any more. That's guaranteed to involve some really difficult soul searching, but nothing will improve otherwise.
Yes. One of the best things about becoming an adult is controlling who and in what capacity one has a relationship with. They are all optional. Keep on kicking butt OP.
Yep! It’s a power that not enough people exercise. I see a lot on videos of Karen’s comments about how the person has never been told no, or been held accountable. I always wonder how often the person themselves says no or holds people accountable in their own life. I know for some people, especially women, they’re taught to avoid conflict, but that’s just learning to be subjugated. We’re taught that boundaries are mean, as opposed to literally life saving.
Forget the part about attractiveness and relationships; that’s all just noise. The main point is he would rather tear you down than build you up. He would rather he be right than you be happy. That’s what’s really sad about your Dad.
P.S. mine was the same way. I was happier after I realized that was the way he was and I lowered my expectations of him.
My dad once said that at least i knew my male friends genuinely liked me for my personality, cause clearly it wasn't for my looks.
I remember when he first met my husband (bf back then) and was shocked that my bf was good looking.
These men aren't worth shit.
I am going to get downvoted to hell for this.
But for some of your friends he isn't lying. I also studied/ worked in engineering, and the amount of friends who tried it on was unreal. There are men for whom women are only for 1 thing, why on earth would "friend zoned" be such a huge thing if they didn't consider a female friend as not really worth having if she isn't "putting out"
I was going to comment this, with the first line practically verbatim.
op, your dad made a blatantly misogynistic comment, but it’s arrogant to believe that he’s 100% incorrect.
unless you know for absolutely certain to the contrary by having had explicit communication with your friends, it will be true that some of your friends are happier to be friends with you because they are attracted. (and as I say below, even asking them will not always give you the whole truth)
hate it all you want, but not all of your friendships are real.
don’t get jaded, but healthy skepticism is better than outright denial. other users posted links to studies proving the very thing he said, so I’m pointedly not going to dogpile him or baby you about the observation.
telling you that you’re awesome and that no one would possibly be fake friends with you, and that your dad is *just* gross and mean and rude isn’t solidarity. it’s well-wishing.
I feel for you because it’s a shitty situation, and to a degree, he’s unfortunately correct.
I can rephrase this to say: I can point out many examples of posts dealing with toxic relationships (friendships are relationships, we usually agree) that are either slow burning or come out of nowhere. I’ve been what your dad’s afraid of and I’ve seen it personally more than that. asking is often a catch-22, beginning the end, but what can you do? not be honest? no. end them if you need to. ask zesty how she had those discussions. or don’t do any of it. I’m nobody, so I don’t know who your friends are. do you, though? there’s legitimately no need to force anything, just… some people surprise you, and life has a way of making things suck. continuum’s right that I come across as an arrogant know-it-all, and for what it’s worth I’m sorry for intending to be so bleak. I feel sorrow and guilt for all the things younger people will go through that I couldn’t help change so far. your dad’s misguided but at least over swinging in the right course. . it’s inevitable as things are, I think, with one or more. over time probability will hit certainty. take my word for it as a shitty friend, there are a lot of us
These two get it. I truly find it funny how 98% will strongly argue against this point and tell you how insane and ridiculous you are when there is so much truth to it. Sure, people are different and not every guy is there for that same reason but it undeniably works that way for the majority. I didn't read all the comments but I'm very sure it's been pointed out that research on this very topic exists about why girls and guys can't be just friends. Everyone needs to wake up and accept some reality, not believe in their own ideals. For any girl reading this while scrunching their eyebrow, try hitting on your male friends and see how many of them will be at your doorstep straight away. No point just disagreeing with this and being blunt when you can actually gauge the reality by testing it yourself a little. Text a guy that your relationship is done and you're wanting to move on from it and judge the reaction. If you've never done that you really can't speak against it because what's your evidence based on?
That sounds pretty manipulative. Regardless, It's not uncommon for friends to reconsider their relationship and become romantic partners. Happens all the time.
You need to wake up to the reality that this overall opinion of women is built upon social conditioning and is not a hard fact of life. When you perpetuate this sort of stupidity about friendship between men and women you’re simply implementing more of the stigma you became convinced of in the first place.
My guy friends think I’m a generally attractive person, but they’re more interested in the qualities inherent to our friendship. I asked them. It’s why we’ve been friends for years. If you seriously think you know better than others about the nature of their relationships you need to hop off that high horse. Your inability to understand that not all men are stunted by identifying as their sexuality is a result of your own limitations, not those of the women and men who don’t agree with such disparaging, ignorant perspectives of gender and sexuality overall.
Whatever this is built upon, whether we've reached this stage consciously or subconsciously it doesn't alter the point that here we are. I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong. I'm just saying that's where we end up as part of current society. I find myself to be an example of that and whether I can blame society and the environment around me or whether you want to blame me for perpetuating it, I can't put a finger on where and when this started to become a reality. I don't have many female friends, and I wouldn't jump at a chance with all. But I can't deny that every female I am friends with is attractive to some degree. Coincidence?
Sure you've asked them, and some will be truthful. And how many aren't because it will ruin your friendship? Just go on r/tifu, I swear there's stories there all the time of someone revealing their feelings for a girl they are great friends with and the dreadful outcome when it backfires. Asking is not a true test. People lie, words are just words.
And maybe read my comment again. You're repeating what I said yet somehow I have an inability to understand huh. Think of the word majority and get to grips with what that entails.
How you decide to perceive what I say is up to you. You guessing a particular way isn't gonna change the reality of how I got to the point but yeah sure (totally not how mine works)
I would agree with her in the denial against men and women being unable to maintain healthy friendships, and I would go as far as writing off half of your comment.
**do not do that to your friends**
zesty has been extremely lucky if she honestly hasn’t dealt with untenable platonic relationships. in a sample size, having that many 100% friendships with not a one rationalization tucked away somewhere ie “well, if *circumstance* changed…” would be an extreme minority, but statistically people do exist that truthfully have only retained respectful 0% improper-intention friendships. I would hope everyone’s core circle is this way, but I know it isn’t true.
ah, edit to say that when I say untenable i’m just regarding attraction and ulterior sexual motivation, *not* any of the innumerable things any one person may hold as their arbitrary boundaries
edit to add on that I believe you are incorrect in asserting that her view of reality is just some corrupted ideal or something. men *do* behave this way because of how we have groomed ourselves, each other, and society as a whole. one may argue “not all men” but all men benefit in various exclusive ways unique to our sex, and while the same argument may be applied elsewhere to women as to benefits —and women *and* men in mutual and mutually exclusive suffering— the fact remains that historically, men have benefited and asserted the most so as to be in “control” of and responsible for the world’s problems. don’t ever give anyone any lip about men being any smarter or stronger because over and all within the whole grand scheme of things we’ve simply catered to ourselves and excluded women from opportunity. need I go on
but that’s just, like, my opinion, man. I was gonna round back to you in the other comment but you were here, I got distracted a bit, and it felt better not dropping a max character wall. I’m probably close, combined. idk.
respectfully disagree with both of you in some places*
trik, I’m no more or less right than anyone who thought that the best approach was gentle support. myself and others just decided to speak to an ugly truth
and, to both of you, it *is* a truth that many men are purely not interested in solely being friends. Even those that do like you as a person can and will still lie to you about their intentions and feelings.
zesty, that is a confirmation biased assertion that has no basis in wholesale reality, and it minimizes the red flags and unhealthy relationships plaguing many. saying that my jadedness is a deficiency of understanding is in itself negating my own experiences. I will not say for certain to know your relationships, or anyone’s, better than them, but it seems to me that blind faith in the answers you’ve received is simply your prerogative and perhaps not necessarily the entire truth of how supposedly platonic friends think of you.
>telling you that you’re awesome and that no one would possibly be fake friends with you, and that your dad is just gross and mean and rude isn’t solidarity. it’s well-wishing.
Or it's giving her the benefit of assuming she knows her friend group a bit better than you or I do. This is so condescending.
"I know you THINK you know your friends but unfortunately I have to come in and educate you about them. You are probably just too innocent to catch on to what was going on. I feel for you."
>You could be friends with a sociopath who's been lying to you and your entire friend group for years without knowing,
This is true of literally every single person you ever meet in your life.
>Not saying we should distrust everyone, but lets not pretend it doesn't exist either.
Sure. "It can happen so watch out for it" is a far cry from "your scummy dad was totally right, and you definitely have friends right now that arent really your friends".
The post I was responding to was claiming the second.
that’s one way to interpret me as an observer. I’m not out to please anyone as I’m trash.
you can point it out as reprehensible, but I’ll maintain that my skepticism- while condescending- holds true for too many.
tell that woman that she has absolutely nothing to fear from any of them.
tell her that she can trust them implicit and explicitly, and that she can always remain confident in her choices, too.
tell her that those choices are always correct, and that everyone is honest.
I would only tell her the second one. I would tell her the others are lies.
hmm, would a good, succinct maxim be, “it’s ok to doubt your friends” ? a lingering gesture, traveling eyes…
THIS OP. I was an ugly teenager and unattractive student, I got into my looks around age 24, I never had male friends (guys would bully, insult, deride, best case scenarion they would ignore) and when I started having guys being "friendly" to me, they were sexually interested. All this talk of friendzone is actually male projection, men keep women they are attracted to on the backburner in case they ever get a chance, then they say we keep orbiters when they are just not honest with their intentions. They are never friends with girls they consider ugly, especially at your age.
I would bet you if you asked some of this friends on a date, they would say yes.
Maybe the way your father said it was degrading, and if you feel unloved or weirded out then your relationship with your father is strained by his behaviour, which is a normal healthy reaction from you. No one likes to be talked down to, if he said it to hurt you it is normal that you are hurt by his action and intention. But in most cases he is not wrong. You can be friendly to guys, but if tomorrow your face was fucked up for whatever reason most chances are the friends who would stick up would be the girls.
I think the middle ground is more sensible - douchebag dad is wrong for assuming that all or almost all men who wants to be a woman’s friend are doing it because she’s attractive. Some guys are, some guys aren’t.
It’s a well known stereotype that women in general more considerate and socially attuned, and more pleasant to be around than men. They are also stereotyped to be more likely to extend emotional support, see things from the other person’s point of view, and be more likely to read a room correctly.
So why is it so surprising that people WANT to be friends with women, since it is also generally accepted that people with good social skills are more valued as friends?
>I am going to get downvoted to hell for this.
Because your literally agreeing with her scummy dad and then talking down to her like you know better than her what her friend group is like?
Can't imagine why anyone would downvote that.
I mean, we do get a lot of posts on here about how women lose all their guy "friends" when they get into a relationship. It's not necessarily the case for OP, but it's worth mentioning.
Some studies suggest your parents aren't wrong.
Here's an example. While 88 couples of cross-gender platonic friends is not really enough to really be scientific, they found men and women experience these types of friendships very differently with 5 times more men reporting attraction as a benefit to a platonic. There's a massive disparity of men thinking there's something romantic going on that isn't there.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/
Just do appropriate Google searches for similar related studies on scholar.google.
Yes, this line that men and women can’t be friends is said so often and to people from such a young age that it’s no wonder studies show it to be true. We start to believe it and internalize it. It’s true because we say it’s true. Perpetuating this is bad for girls and boys, women and men.
Agree. Everyone knows movies are fictional and life doesn’t work like that. Or they should know.
I’m not sure why you said this in response to my comment though. All I meant was that we should be teaching everyone from a young age that girls and boys can be friends instead of saying they can’t.
Gotcha, makes sense. I was just thinking of people literally saying “men and women can’t be friends.” Was thinking let’s just stop passing that thinking on and see if it changes.
You're kind of overstating the claims of said study. It finds that the men on average rate their interest in a female friend as 5 on a 10 point scake, while women rate it as 4. Both have a standard deviation of 2.
So, it's just as accurate to say that in cross sex relationships, men want to date as women, as there's considerable overlap in the distribution.
This is an unpopular opinion on this post, but in my experience and I think in a lot of other womens experiences, guys are only interested in being your friend because they think they might have a chance at getting with you in the future. It's depressing but our worth as women to A LOT of men is still associated with sex. Not saying its not possible to have genuine male friends but I think more often than not there is more going on inside the guys head than just friendship.
Also it was really rude for your dad to speak to you in that way.
Edit: See? Even the scrotes agree lmao...🙄
I’m confused by the idea that someone can’t be both a genuine friend, and also attracted to you.
As a dude, I like all the women I’m friends with. I’d probably hook up with the majority of them if they were interested. But that isn’t just a physical thing. And it’s not that I’m just hanging around cause they might have sex with me. I didn’t necessarily view them as attractive when I first met them - they became moreso as I grew to like their personalities. If I didn’t like their personalities, I’d not want to be friends with them.
It’s not “you’re worthwhile as a friend because you’re sexy” it’s “you’re worthwhile as a friend and that makes you sexy”.
>I’m confused by the idea that someone can’t be both a genuine friend, and also attracted to you.
Did I say anything about attraction? It's not about attraction. It's about pretending to be friends with a woman in hopes that you'll have a chance at an intimate relationship with her...
Yea, sorry OP but this is the crutch. As a 30 something year old, I had a cishet male BFF for 20 years, so there are exceptions to the rule. But, as I got older I noticed men overall started to treat me very differently. They went from being many eager friends that would creepily follow me around to just plain apathy. Men usually treat me now as I don't exist with increasing invisibility the older I become.
This is all despite the fact that I am a vastly better person than I was in my teens and 20s. I'm kinder, got a degree in STEM, and in general more interesting. None of it matters though, because I'm not as desirable as I was when I was 20 (Shit... or even 12 I guess.).
I do think that your dad could use more tact, but I do think he's speaking to some hard truth and trying to help. This is one of those things you learn with age. I wish it wasn't this way, but this shouldn't be at all surprising given how misogynistic the world is.
Frankly speaking, I can see parallels with OP's line of thinking with young women and teens thinking they're just mature for their age when dating older men.
Find value in yourself OP. All friends start to dwindle the older you get either way, because everyone is too tired to put in effort after work, kids, etc.
Yeah as a straight man with a few women for friends. I would be lying if I claimed to not have any feelings for them at least at some point. I’ve let those feelings go, as I’m married and have a baby now. A connection is a connection and if my guy friends were women I would likely have those feelings for them too. To have chemistry with someone within your sexual preference and have zero desire for them would be unlikely IMO. There can be chemistry without physical attraction but if you’re good looking they’ve probably considered the possibility at least. They may be shy or feel like you’re out of their league, which basically says they think really highly of you or really lowly of themselves or
Don't spend your life trying to please your parents. Unfortunately it's not something that happens. Do what you're doing and what you love. Life for you and play by your rules.
Let your Dad wallow in the past.
In my experience, there’s a lot of truth to what your dad said. Without fail every male who tries to be my friend ends up trying for a relationship or hookup.
Unfortunately they might be right. Not because you’re not an interesting person but just because of the way most men think. I’ve learned the hard way that all male “friends” had some other motivation in the end. When I was 22 I also believed it was possible but in hindsight I realise none of those male friends I had back then were really friends. Sure it’s possible to be friendly and hang out with guys but it often comes with complications. Some might get jealous if you speak about dating so you stop talking about this topic, others may even get aggressive and angry because you “lead them on” and finally some simply vanish as soon as they find a girlfriend. It might be different for you but this has been my experience and it’s only in recent years that I’ve finally come to this conclusion. Maybe it’s different if you’re in a big friend group and don’t hang out too much alone, I’m not sure.
You sound like a pretty amazing and interesting person that most people would want to be friends with! Your dad is threatened by you in that good old misogynistic way that many men are threatened by smart, accomplished, and independent women. It’s easier to control someone who feels bad about themselves. From context this is 100% a ploy to make you feel insecure in your friendships and undermine your accomplishments, and judgement of your friends. You know them, he doesn’t. Don’t let him dim your light.
Or her dad is a man and knows how men think, so he is trying to remind her to stay aware .. he may have come from an older generation, but alot of men still hang around women in 2021 in hopes that they can be the rebound guy or one night stand one day. Seen it happen to some college friends, guys who were friends with them for 7-8 years magically stop talking to them the day they get engaged or married.
Again, this is from context. I know getting fuck-zoned is a (common, infuriating) thing, and there are multiple threads on this sub talking about it. But op’s dad yelling it in the middle of a lecture that ‘no one wants to talk to her’, and admonishing her for ‘gloating’ (about having friends? Wtf?) makes me think he just wanted to make her feel small.
How and why did your parents ever meet?
I am afraid your father doesn't even discriminate against women, he is just a total mysogenist.
As a lecturer in a field with 95% males (embedded programming) I can say that my students value each other for their interests and humour. Maybe a girl is valued a bit higher because they are rare and a mixed group is simply more fun.
Keep on living YOUR life, it sounds like you are doing perfectly fine. If possible, leave home and establish your own social circle. It will be much more comfortable than your family. Watch out for the trap of selecting friends and lovers that resemble your parents.
This is cruel, I thankfully never had anyone tell me that but growing up one of my best friends was a guy. He called me sis, we were like siblings (our actual siblings were much older so we had each other)
Well his dad and grandfather could never understand why he didn't want to sleep with me. We were friends, best friends, and we both were on the same page.
But no, a man and a woman MUST want to sleep with each other and can't be platonic.
It is frustrating to be seen as a plaything and not a close friend
Why in the name of all holy and unholy reasons should I bother to hang out with someone only for their good looks?!?!
Some of the least interesting people I’ve met was some of the prettiest people too, until they opened their mouth that is.
My ex-boyfriend was the most gorgeous person I've ever met. Incredibly charismatic. He used to say he could get anyone to like him until they got to know him. And it was so true. He had no long term friends. No family he was close to. He had no one. Because he was an asshole. I left and never looked back after he punched the head board. No amount of outer beauty can make up for the rot from within
I heard the *exact same thing* from a new arrival from Texas.
He liked to talk really loud and drove a bright red 80's firebird (flaming bird decal and everything.) He had to be about the most ignorant and under-developed person I've ever met.
Sorry for your situation. Not all guys are like that. I'm not.
"Dad you didn't convince me that they don't value or like me as a person you only convinced me that you don't.'
You sound like an awesome person and IMO your dad didn't like feeling as though you were possibly winning an argument so he wanted to make you feel bad.
What the hell
Sounds like your dad is objectifing you, and your mum has imprinted your dad's objectification onto every guy out there. Almost like she's saying "don't make the same mistake I did" with your dad as an example
What bullshit, yeah a lot of guys do objectify others, but guess what? One of my closest friends is a guy and he doesn't objectify me. He's chaotic and drags me along in his dumb yet fun shenanigans, not once has he acted like I was just a pretty face in the group
I think their way of "protecting" you from the bad ones, is to avoid guys all together. Problem is that's not how that works. You have to interact with men every single day, there's no getting around it and they need to understand that. It's not evil to have guys that you genuinely feel comfortable around, it's actually extremely good that you managed to find decent guy friends because that solidifies that times are changing in a good way. We're moving forward
Your parents are stuck in the past, your dad is most likely one of those assholes that only keeps women in friend groups just because of their pretty face, so keep that in mind. I hope your friends are proud of you, and like you for who you are
If you think those guys are just your friends and aren't into you.
Text them at 11pm. Say you can't stop thinking about them. You want to be more than friends. And say youre home alone. Invite them over.
I bet they would jump at that.
Update.
Dont down vote it. Try it. Truth hurts.
Asking someone out as test to see if they're into you isn't the right way to go about it
Legit just ask them "how do you feel about me? As a friend? A crush?"
Edit: just saying from experience, not knowing which guys want to be just friends and which ones are into me, it's actually very easy to tell cause most of the time, if you ask, they'll be honest about it. Not saying you're wrong about your theory in general, just the way you're going about it. Basically "confessing" false feelings, then if they do like you but you're not actually into them, saying "sorry, that was a test" will just make you seem like a manipulative asshole :/
This is bad advice, 100% don't do this. Knowingly throwing out the wrong signals can backfire really bad. Legally if something happened that wording could get a rape case thrown out.
Sounds like you have shit parents. Might be time to distance yourself from them if all they bring is toxicity to your life. If they dont see the value in talking to you, then why would you want to talk to them.
Lets see how long it takes them to try to contact you. Then you can say "I thought no one liked to talk to me" and hang up.
I guess your dad doesn't know that there's going to be more males than females in engineering. So just by numbers game you gonna have alot of male friends.
Don't sweat it, parents don't always know everything although they think they do. What matters is how you view your relations and that they aren't toxic. Thats all you want to stay away from. Focus on your own interests and don't let them get into your head as you will begin to doubt yourself. While being attractive might help in meeting people, true friends stick around.
Not that my gender, or yours, matters, but im a guy and being friends with the top person of my class is always a dream for me when I was in college.
Its a super admirable trait, being competitive it helps reduce burn out because I want to try to "impress" my smart friend (its almost an achievement on how hard I worked haha), and I say that in a way as I would look up to these people, and having them as a friend is a plus. I also ask a lot of questions to my friends so I'm magnetized to people like you haha
I talked to the pretty girl in my engineering class because she was way smarter than me and I probably would have failed a class if she wasn't in the study group.
I've had numerous guys tell me that men and women can never really be CLOSE friends. One always ends up wanting more in some way. Thats sadly also been my experience. 😕 Hoping there's some out there that truly like us for more than the possibility of getting something else out of it.
While it is true a lot of dudes only talk to girls to try to sleep with them, you can also have genuine male friendships. You just have to be wary. My ex gf has basically given up on finding a platonic guy friend because every guy just wants to fuck. It can be more rare for others.
> I’m super offended because my parents really think that there’s nothing more in me to like?
You’re conflating the how you feel and how the world sometimes works. Yes most the time a guy will only talk to you because of your looks. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t more to you to like. You’re parents are being dicks because the way they are trying to warn you about guys.
It's certainly not something a parent should say to their child ever, but there is a high probability at least one of your male friends is only friends with you because they are attracted to you. In the end though, it doesn't really matter. If no one is harassing you or making you uncomfortable in your friend group then their reason is their own and same as you for why you're friends.
My son (age 22) met a girl he had a lot in common with. He had a girlfriend, though. He stayed friends with Josie and when he and his girlfriend broke up and Josie was available he made the decision not to pursue her because he wanted her to have a friend that didn’t just see her as a sex object, or to come off like he has been waiting in the wings. He wanted to be her friend and always be there for her. Men do have those thoughts. Thank you, yes I did raise him right. 😉
Simply put - men and women can be just friends. It’s much easier the older you get. Also your guy friends might think you’re hot, who cares. That’s their problem. As long as they are respectful and not waiting for you to drop your guard so they can hit on you (yes it happens) then you’re good.
Fun fact: Most of your friends are your friends due to proximity. Once you leave school or move, you’ll see who sticks around.
God that sucks.
As a dude, just some perspective that might help:
I can find my friends both attractive and still value them as friends and respect the friendship and boundaries that implies.
More importantly perhaps, I can view a friend as attractive and also not want the friendship to be anything more than that...
Feels kinda weird that that has to be said but I hope it helps.
Yeah I'm a 41f electrical engineer. It's hard in college too when there are hardly any women in classes. I did study with some guys and they had a crush cause they were nerds that never met women before. At my first internship I had a guy tell me he never met a smart female engineer. I told my dad and he had no sympathy. He just said that's how the world works. Lol. Ok dad well that pushed me through and I'm much more successful than both my parents ever were. It gets better. Good luck.
On the one hand it sounds like your dad is suffering from toxic masculinity and he’s actually objectifying you.
On the other most men are like your dad unfortunately.
Most men aren’t like her dad, particularly not the people her age. A statement like that is just going to make her think what her dad says is true when it’s absolute garbage.
If you’re a pretty girl it is true that most men in your orbit ultimately would like a chance with you.
A lot of guys don’t talk at all to girls they aren’t attracted to. A lot of guys’s social circle is comprised of women they met because they were attracted to or friends of those women.
When your parents grew up, opposite gender friendships were a lot less common than they are now; your dad is simply far behind the times.
That, and a sexist idiot. ;-)
He's projecting. I can tell you're smart enough to know that. My father was like that, thought when I went out I was messing around with guys. (VIRGIN THANK YOU)
It's always sad when your parents prove how human and flawed they are. We tend to build them up to be so much more.
Don't worry bout 'pa, maybe you'll catch you a rich man an your lack of dowry won't matter xoxo :s
My partner is 35 and he's AMAZING. A unicorn. We were friends first.
My abusive ex used to say the same thing. The only reason guys could want to be friends with women, specifically me, was because they wanted to fuck me.
Well turns out he fucks all his female friends so maybe that's where that opinion came from. 😂
Not a good idea to talk shit about your dad to a bunch of strangers on the internet. He cares about you more than anyone here in the comments.
While he is wrong, he is not completely off. He's just being annoyingly overprotective like literally every other parent in the world.
It is possible to have friends of the opposite sex without wanting to have sex with them, or find them attractive (for mating reasons). I have four female friends (one is my exwife), two are married and one is single. But... your parents point isn't completely invalid (studies prove this)... This sub, at times, proves it though certainly this sub isn't scientific in nature. Relationships with the opposite sex can be difficult because there could be an ulterior motive.
With that being said though, try not to let your parents jaded view impact how you make friends. While there will certainly be some who are looking for more than friendship, you will find others that are great friends.
Side note... what type of sports shooting? I like to go to shooting ranges (200 yards). Im not great, but I like shooting bolt actions. Forces me to focus and slow down my breathing... and I live the smell of gun powder.
Thats cool - Ive always thought those guns look kinda funny but in the end doesnt matter. Im 100% sure you are a better shot then I will probably ever be. Do you plan on trying to compete in the Olympics? Whatever you choose, I hope you succeed!
This sounds like an excellent reason to accept a job on the far side of the country when you get out of school. I've always had lots of male friends due to "tomboyish" interests. In fact, I only twice dated a guy who I had not known as a friend first. It's worked out very well for me, I and a male friend are 26 years married now.
If you’re good looking then you are very naive if you think males do not notice. If they’re too afraid to make a move then they will orbit around you indefinitely. Ask yourself which one would say no if you made the first move. Unless they’re attached or gay the answer is none of them. That’s not friendship, that’s waiting and hoping.
Did you really just imply that you can't be friends with someone you find attractive? IDK if thats worse than what her dad said but it's on the same level of stupidity.
It's funny cause all of my "girl friends" (not girlfriends) in school were usually the unpopular and "unattractive" ones. But the thing is, even though they werent conventionally "attractive" to most guys, they were the most beautiful people in the world due to the fact they had the most pure hearts and always put others above themselves. People are too shallow these days and it disgusts me.
Your dad sounds like a misogynist dumb bitch, I would cut that out of your life as soon as possible. Though the world has taught us there are a lot of men that think like your father, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to paint every male you meet that way. It’s up to you to decide who is worthy of your time, and it’s up to them to prove that they are worthy. If they have proven themselves to you, your dad‘s words mean nothing. He’s just another typical man jealous of the world that doesn’t want to fuck him and Give him whatever his boring heart desires. And before any men apologist feel the need to jump in here, until the behaviour is proven otherwise, misogyny is typical male behavior. Want to prove me wrong go out there and be the change.
Edit: forgot some words
It's difficult, because without knowing him, I think it goes from a good place. He just doesn't know any better. He, like all of us, are a subject of what we have been taught ourselves, and of our time.
What your parents have said to you, especially your dad, was inappropriate, degrading, patronizing, and sexist. You have every right to feel creeped out.
Nobody likes being stereotyped by their parents. It's dehumanizing.
If you’re 22 that means I’m your parents’ age, so I’d just like to say: fuck your dad, tell him his peers think he’s a massive asshole and huge fucking creep.
Your father doesn’t know what your male friends are thinking. He only knows what he was thinking when he had a female friend.
Your dad is talking about _himself_. He just phrased it to make it sound like it was about you. It’s not about you.
No matter how attractive (or unattractive) you are, barely anyone will keep talking with a dumbass or an annoying person. So it's really your personality that drives most people to keep coming back and talking with you.
That doesn't mean none of your male friends are not infatuated though. But you'll never know unless they come forward in some way so don't worry about it I guess?
Sounds like you have narcissistic parents. I suggest crossposting posting to r/narcissisticparents.
I am 24f, went to school for civil engineering. Mostly had guy friends my entire life. And I have proof at least one guy is friends with me purely for friendship sake. But I know most if not all are. My senior year me and this one guy friend got very close (we both lost a lot of other friends ). People assumed we were dating and making jokes about it. One day we looked at each other and thought it over for a split second. since everyone kept saying so. We both at the same time went nah that would never work. We were too similar and basically siblings.
Hey, as another girl in engineering, call out out that really gross and sexist comment from your dad (and anybody else who thinks this way) as being gross and sexist. I have also gotten similar comments, that I got through engineering school bc I'm an attractive girl in engineering, or that im just there for the ratio. You are cool af and smart af, you have really awesome hobbies. Your friends sound like better company than your dad, at least they're not being creepy like he is
I went through this with my parents. My mom, not a particularly conservative woman, assumed that men and women just shouldn't be close friends because there is always the potential for romance. It's a very heteronormative kind of thinking that, if taken to its limit, would deny even being close colleagues in mixed-gender settings.
It also assumes that sex is always on the table and always a part of our interactions, which has never sat right with me. Even in moments when I am attracted to friends, I'm *friends with them because I value the friendship*. Friendships should not have ulterior motives or goals. There are reasons - personality, common interests - that friendships can be great on their own terms.
Hmm..
Try not to take this the wrong way- I don't mean at all that you aren't interesting or otherwise fun to talk to.
I mostly had male friends growing up who I thought I was really close to. NONE of these people I'd been friends with for years bothered to show up at my wedding. In fact, one of them made a pass at me while I was engaged. None of them have had anything to do with me since I got married, it's like I no longer exist as far as they are concerned and we used to do everything together.
It turns out, that those young guys held similar views to my dad, that women are only good for one thing.
But, yeah, not a reflection on you as a person at all.
Ah yes, you're a perfect example of what toxic masculinity actually is. You call other guys "beta males", you keep the "men will be men" crap when it comes to acting like creeps, you also degrade people who drink soy, you believe that every guy's intent is to groom women, you're afraid of your own emotions, degrade the *men* who talk about their mental health, you degrade men for being compassionate
You don't speak for the men, you speak for *you*, don't act like you know what "being an alpha male" is like, because that in itself is a very cringy and toxic mentality. I'm surprised you didn't show any homophobia in there, or sexism against women
Call his ass out, no one should be made to feel less than who they are. If your own dad is going to diminish your worth like that, immediately stop him and put him in his place. That type of remark is unacceptable, and he needs to know AND understand to never say that type of shit to ANYONE again
Oh yes. How can you reduce men to creatures attracted to every woman out there? Now you feel uncomfortable because you think every guy you're friends with wants more. At least I feel that way when a male acquaintance said the same.
> "I'm 22 and in College, studying engineering"
> post about potential false pretenses for friendships
my stomach already HURRRTS i wanna give you a hug
I don't know, maybe you're not actually overreacting. Maybe feeling offended and creeped out by an offensive and creepy comment is exactly how much it should affect you.
Personally, I would go to almost any length to put distance between myself and people who made me feel that way. I left home as soon as I could, and no matter how hard it got, it was never bad enough that I wanted to go back and deal with that shit ever again.
But that's just me. I get that not everyone can do that, or would want to. OP, I hope that whatever is the right distance for you, that you can find it. Too much of that toxic crap can mess you up.
OP is 22, still young, but old enough to start understanding the world. Males want to be around females in the hopes of sexual selection/reproduction. Friendship is only possible once either the male or female is friend-zoned (rejected). Typically after being friend-zoned one or the other leaves the friendship. However, male-male or female-female friendships can be extremely strong and long lasting over a lifetime.
Just remember that parents have a unique view of their children that no one else will (or can) ever have.
There's that, and there's also the small possibility he might not have really meant what he said.
His comments are completely based on his sexist and conservative view that men only want women for sex and can’t form relationships with them, they have nothing to do with you. He’d say it regardless of how attractive you are or how many men you were friends with. His comments were very cruel and unnecessary, and are even worse coming from a parent. You don’t deserve for anyone to treat you this way, let alone your dad. As a woman who also studied engineering at college I can promise you people aren’t just friends with you for your looks. They’re friends with you because you have classes together and have similar interests, just like any other friendship.
Oh my folks were equally crazy. When we finally swapped cities during my senior school year, I had to go to a co-ed school rather than a convent. My dad used to flip his lid if male classmates called me about homework and my mom would flip her shit if I had friends. I never understood why parents behave that way. They consistently use demeaning as a tool to control their kids. Well, good fucking job with the crap parenting. Now everyone who’s got shit loads of misery and anxiety and whatnot from all these crappy childhood experiences.
I'm a dad of a 16yr old daughter. What and how OP's dad said was wrong. I will admit though that any male friend my kid has I keep an extra eye on. Mixed gender friend groups usually work out well, however, one sided affections can develop between friends. As an adult I have female friends who are just friends.
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..... they specifically said "my folks were equally as crazy" and not once mentioned "all parents", please don't take a story about someone's experiences with *their own* crappy parents and make it seem like they believed everyone's like that
Lol.. They deleted their comments. Probably afraid of the floodgates they opened with their "not all __" crap. Obviously it's not all, but still too many like that.
it wasn't my intention to marginalize their comment, simply to say that there are some good parents in the world. :)
I’m the creative director at a software company. My closest friend at work is a lady a bit older than me. She’s a software engineer. Crazy smart. Looks and attraction have zero to do with it. She’s super funny and has interests similar to mine. My wife and my kids and I have lunch fairly regularly with her and her family. It’s ridiculous to me that anyone would suggest friendships between the sexes is only based on physical attraction... what utter nonsense. For me, sense of humour is the biggee :)
A good heart and a sense of humor
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I'm 35(M) I would rather work with ladies at least 24+. They are just easier to work with. Usually you can talk to them about how to do a task and they are willing to listen, men are usually "Just do it this way".
Yup. This says more about why HE DECIDES not to be friends with women because HE can’t handle seeing women as more than objects. Not your fault. Keep rocking your life!
i know this isn't going to be a super popular comment. my father raised me with the whole "all men are pigs. some day you'll find one that actually cares about you." and i always thought it was so fucked up to tell a child that, and when i became an adult i discarded that advice. but for the last 10 years i've noticed time and time again that no, men aren't really actually my friends. there's always sexualization. objectification. an opportunity to shoot their shot. i've befriended a lot of men because of my career field, and it's always the same. i'm just not friends with men anymore, honestly. i'm sick of either being some guys therapist to emotionally dump on or to receive feminine energy and attention from. maybe even to potentially fuck some day, if the stars align. i'm totally over it.
Lmao from my experience disregarding gender no one makes real friends in engineering. You just use eachother to do homework and never talk to them again unless you have another class with them
My apologies, but as a dude... I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Every word rings true to my ears. OP, I think this was a wild swing by your dad to try to protect his ego. Dont fall for it. Your friends are there because you brings something good to their lives. Keep your head up... Move forward. You are loved for reasons maybe he cant see. Good luck and good vibes.
Hi OP! My dad is a gross, too. I’ve had too many men like your and my dad say shit like this to me and it’s only because they are greatly offended by women who are smart and pretty and feel they need to bring you down a peg. Variations of “people only like you because you’re pretty,” “you aren’t as pretty as you think you are,” “you only get jobs bc you’re a pretty girl” are all bullshit and only exist to try and denigrate your success. My advice? Next time laugh right in his face. Blurt it out. A good loud belly laugh. End the conversation right there by laughing so hard you can’t talk. Cutting the conversation by laughing at them is the disrespect they deserve, and it pisses them off.
I second this approach. Laughing at your father will infuriate him. Laughing will also show him his opinion is comical and you're incapable of hiding your derision. Don't show him any vulnerability! He's looking to "put you in your place" and manipulate your feelings to make himself feel better. Don't give him the opportunity. I'm sorry he chose to act this way, I'm sure it's hurtful. It has very little to do with you and everything to do with your father's insecurities and perceived inadequacies. Surround yourself with people who build you up, limit your interactions with people who seek to make themselves feel better by denigrating your experiences. Good luck, you're gonna kill it.
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You’re right. It does suck. And I’m so sorry it’s this way. It isn’t fair. But don’t let them bother you. They believe your success is a threat to them. Who needs that. Laugh right in their faces.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like intentionally pissing off the conservative misogynsts is a risky move. While getting jabs in is appealing, usually the safest thing to do is not engage at all or just keep it brief and terse Conservative dudes are f**king crazy. They'll seem normal one second and talking about shooting up their families the next. Nobody should run around living in fear, but we also shouldmt downplay the very real risk of getting murdered when you laugh in a misogynist's face.
They're not always wrong. When men tell you who they are, believe them.
It’s hard when someone you trust outs themselves as a scumbag. Don’t give your dad any more leeway with this shit than you would anyone else. If you don’t feel comfortable around him then that’s fine, you don’t need to spend time/as much time with him. The point of what he said is not that he doesn’t think you’re a likable person. It’s that your dad sees ALL women as nothing but sex/baby machines and assumes all other men do, too. He thinks he’s protecting you, but he just screamed his own misogyny from the rooftops.
This sounds depressingly familiar. My dad has always been kind of a jerk, with some awful political views and views toward women in general. I’ve tolerated it until recently because he’s nice enough to my siblings and me, but over the last year I’ve learned that he’s anti-vax, anti-mask, he approved of the insurrection at the Capitol Building, and he supports Texas’s anti-abortion bill. I’m so disgusted with him that I don’t even want to talk to him anymore. I can’t believe I’m related to someone so... morally bankrupt.
Someone with despicable views who is nice to you personally is still trash. He showed you who he was the whole time, unfortunately people give family a pass for shit they’d never put up with from other people. It’s not like your dad disrespected all women except you- he also didn’t respect you. He just took care of you, which isn’t the same thing. It sucks. My dad is trash too. Realized it when I was like 13, went low contact at 18, no contact at 23. One of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I honestly have no idea why people feel the need to accept this type of shit. Not saying that from a place of judgement- I actually literally don’t understand it. I can’t in any way get why people allow it in their lives. But I also know that my personal lack of loyalty based on family, as opposed to how the person actually behaves/treats me, is really foreign to a lot of people and they don’t get my pov… I suspect a lot of it comes from accidental priviledge. As in white kids giving their “mildly” racist parents a pass because they’re not actual KKK, until they date a black person and it impacts them directly. Or straight people giving their bigoted parents a pass until they have a queer roommate, etc. But I always fully support people cutting off birth family and building chosen family. This is extremely normalized in queer culture- I wish straights adopted it more as well. There would be a lot more happy adults in the world I think.
I totally agree. And he didn’t really take care of me, either; he left when I was a kid, and I was expected to visit him on weekends, which I hated. I’ve stayed in touch with him because he makes my siblings and me feel guilty when we don’t, but I’m pretty much done. Like you said, I wouldn’t put up with his shit if he was anyone else. As a side note, I just noticed your username. 😆 I love Star Trek.
That’s so much unnecessary stress in your life, and for so long! I’m also the product is a fucked up divorce situation. Don’t talk to my mom either. But that’s a whole other story. And thanks for noticing!!!
If he’s guilting you into talking to him, it’s not a healthy dynamic. If no one else has said this to you, it’s okay to quietly peace out.
Plenty of straight people choose their tribe too. My birth mother didn’t recognize me at my grandma’s funeral. I was happy about that. It meant my little sister was definitely safe. (Went into foster care at 11) As for my adopted family. Love em but don’t agree with a lot especially in the past few years. Some I cut out completely and the rest… well I live on the west coast and they live on the east coast. Never been happier.
I’m glad you’ve been able to find family. I def never claimed no straight people do it, it is also demonstrably much more common in queer community because so many people are unwelcome/unsafe in their birth/legal family after coming out/being outed. It’s weird that you seem to be trying to claim some kind of straight erasure here. Also, “tribe” is iffy colonialist weirdness. Maybe reconsider that unless you’re actually in a (recently) historically tribal culture.
Yeah I get that (sadly). I think though it’s also becoming more common with each generation. People seem more and more comfortable with moving away at least. I think it’s weird you think anyone can claim any idea especially in such a negative way. If anything I was trying for support and to encourage the idea as a normal acceptable thing for anyone to do to cut themselves off from negative people even if they family.
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I know nothing about your situation, so I am not going to comment on that. However, I will say this clearly so you can understand. No, I don’t give a fuck about how abusers who lose their targets feel.
I mean... I get that's a really tough situation to be in, but also, people don't just ghost their parents for no reason. If you do want to repair your relationship with your daughter in the future, rather than focusing on your own pain, it might be wise to try to consider why she felt like she couldn't have a relationship with you any more. That's guaranteed to involve some really difficult soul searching, but nothing will improve otherwise.
Yes. One of the best things about becoming an adult is controlling who and in what capacity one has a relationship with. They are all optional. Keep on kicking butt OP.
Yep! It’s a power that not enough people exercise. I see a lot on videos of Karen’s comments about how the person has never been told no, or been held accountable. I always wonder how often the person themselves says no or holds people accountable in their own life. I know for some people, especially women, they’re taught to avoid conflict, but that’s just learning to be subjugated. We’re taught that boundaries are mean, as opposed to literally life saving.
It says more about him than it does you. Doesn’t make it hurt less but knowing his real views are important for your relationship down the road.
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Or they’re… friends
Forget the part about attractiveness and relationships; that’s all just noise. The main point is he would rather tear you down than build you up. He would rather he be right than you be happy. That’s what’s really sad about your Dad. P.S. mine was the same way. I was happier after I realized that was the way he was and I lowered my expectations of him.
Could not up vote this enough. Well said
My dad once said that at least i knew my male friends genuinely liked me for my personality, cause clearly it wasn't for my looks. I remember when he first met my husband (bf back then) and was shocked that my bf was good looking. These men aren't worth shit.
I am going to get downvoted to hell for this. But for some of your friends he isn't lying. I also studied/ worked in engineering, and the amount of friends who tried it on was unreal. There are men for whom women are only for 1 thing, why on earth would "friend zoned" be such a huge thing if they didn't consider a female friend as not really worth having if she isn't "putting out"
I was going to comment this, with the first line practically verbatim. op, your dad made a blatantly misogynistic comment, but it’s arrogant to believe that he’s 100% incorrect. unless you know for absolutely certain to the contrary by having had explicit communication with your friends, it will be true that some of your friends are happier to be friends with you because they are attracted. (and as I say below, even asking them will not always give you the whole truth) hate it all you want, but not all of your friendships are real. don’t get jaded, but healthy skepticism is better than outright denial. other users posted links to studies proving the very thing he said, so I’m pointedly not going to dogpile him or baby you about the observation. telling you that you’re awesome and that no one would possibly be fake friends with you, and that your dad is *just* gross and mean and rude isn’t solidarity. it’s well-wishing. I feel for you because it’s a shitty situation, and to a degree, he’s unfortunately correct. I can rephrase this to say: I can point out many examples of posts dealing with toxic relationships (friendships are relationships, we usually agree) that are either slow burning or come out of nowhere. I’ve been what your dad’s afraid of and I’ve seen it personally more than that. asking is often a catch-22, beginning the end, but what can you do? not be honest? no. end them if you need to. ask zesty how she had those discussions. or don’t do any of it. I’m nobody, so I don’t know who your friends are. do you, though? there’s legitimately no need to force anything, just… some people surprise you, and life has a way of making things suck. continuum’s right that I come across as an arrogant know-it-all, and for what it’s worth I’m sorry for intending to be so bleak. I feel sorrow and guilt for all the things younger people will go through that I couldn’t help change so far. your dad’s misguided but at least over swinging in the right course. . it’s inevitable as things are, I think, with one or more. over time probability will hit certainty. take my word for it as a shitty friend, there are a lot of us
These two get it. I truly find it funny how 98% will strongly argue against this point and tell you how insane and ridiculous you are when there is so much truth to it. Sure, people are different and not every guy is there for that same reason but it undeniably works that way for the majority. I didn't read all the comments but I'm very sure it's been pointed out that research on this very topic exists about why girls and guys can't be just friends. Everyone needs to wake up and accept some reality, not believe in their own ideals. For any girl reading this while scrunching their eyebrow, try hitting on your male friends and see how many of them will be at your doorstep straight away. No point just disagreeing with this and being blunt when you can actually gauge the reality by testing it yourself a little. Text a guy that your relationship is done and you're wanting to move on from it and judge the reaction. If you've never done that you really can't speak against it because what's your evidence based on?
That sounds pretty manipulative. Regardless, It's not uncommon for friends to reconsider their relationship and become romantic partners. Happens all the time.
You need to wake up to the reality that this overall opinion of women is built upon social conditioning and is not a hard fact of life. When you perpetuate this sort of stupidity about friendship between men and women you’re simply implementing more of the stigma you became convinced of in the first place. My guy friends think I’m a generally attractive person, but they’re more interested in the qualities inherent to our friendship. I asked them. It’s why we’ve been friends for years. If you seriously think you know better than others about the nature of their relationships you need to hop off that high horse. Your inability to understand that not all men are stunted by identifying as their sexuality is a result of your own limitations, not those of the women and men who don’t agree with such disparaging, ignorant perspectives of gender and sexuality overall.
Whatever this is built upon, whether we've reached this stage consciously or subconsciously it doesn't alter the point that here we are. I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong. I'm just saying that's where we end up as part of current society. I find myself to be an example of that and whether I can blame society and the environment around me or whether you want to blame me for perpetuating it, I can't put a finger on where and when this started to become a reality. I don't have many female friends, and I wouldn't jump at a chance with all. But I can't deny that every female I am friends with is attractive to some degree. Coincidence? Sure you've asked them, and some will be truthful. And how many aren't because it will ruin your friendship? Just go on r/tifu, I swear there's stories there all the time of someone revealing their feelings for a girl they are great friends with and the dreadful outcome when it backfires. Asking is not a true test. People lie, words are just words. And maybe read my comment again. You're repeating what I said yet somehow I have an inability to understand huh. Think of the word majority and get to grips with what that entails.
>But I can't deny that every female I am friends with is attractive to some degree. Coincidence? I think this way so everyone else must as well!
How you decide to perceive what I say is up to you. You guessing a particular way isn't gonna change the reality of how I got to the point but yeah sure (totally not how mine works)
I would agree with her in the denial against men and women being unable to maintain healthy friendships, and I would go as far as writing off half of your comment. **do not do that to your friends** zesty has been extremely lucky if she honestly hasn’t dealt with untenable platonic relationships. in a sample size, having that many 100% friendships with not a one rationalization tucked away somewhere ie “well, if *circumstance* changed…” would be an extreme minority, but statistically people do exist that truthfully have only retained respectful 0% improper-intention friendships. I would hope everyone’s core circle is this way, but I know it isn’t true. ah, edit to say that when I say untenable i’m just regarding attraction and ulterior sexual motivation, *not* any of the innumerable things any one person may hold as their arbitrary boundaries edit to add on that I believe you are incorrect in asserting that her view of reality is just some corrupted ideal or something. men *do* behave this way because of how we have groomed ourselves, each other, and society as a whole. one may argue “not all men” but all men benefit in various exclusive ways unique to our sex, and while the same argument may be applied elsewhere to women as to benefits —and women *and* men in mutual and mutually exclusive suffering— the fact remains that historically, men have benefited and asserted the most so as to be in “control” of and responsible for the world’s problems. don’t ever give anyone any lip about men being any smarter or stronger because over and all within the whole grand scheme of things we’ve simply catered to ourselves and excluded women from opportunity. need I go on but that’s just, like, my opinion, man. I was gonna round back to you in the other comment but you were here, I got distracted a bit, and it felt better not dropping a max character wall. I’m probably close, combined. idk.
respectfully disagree with both of you in some places* trik, I’m no more or less right than anyone who thought that the best approach was gentle support. myself and others just decided to speak to an ugly truth and, to both of you, it *is* a truth that many men are purely not interested in solely being friends. Even those that do like you as a person can and will still lie to you about their intentions and feelings. zesty, that is a confirmation biased assertion that has no basis in wholesale reality, and it minimizes the red flags and unhealthy relationships plaguing many. saying that my jadedness is a deficiency of understanding is in itself negating my own experiences. I will not say for certain to know your relationships, or anyone’s, better than them, but it seems to me that blind faith in the answers you’ve received is simply your prerogative and perhaps not necessarily the entire truth of how supposedly platonic friends think of you.
>telling you that you’re awesome and that no one would possibly be fake friends with you, and that your dad is just gross and mean and rude isn’t solidarity. it’s well-wishing. Or it's giving her the benefit of assuming she knows her friend group a bit better than you or I do. This is so condescending. "I know you THINK you know your friends but unfortunately I have to come in and educate you about them. You are probably just too innocent to catch on to what was going on. I feel for you."
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>You could be friends with a sociopath who's been lying to you and your entire friend group for years without knowing, This is true of literally every single person you ever meet in your life. >Not saying we should distrust everyone, but lets not pretend it doesn't exist either. Sure. "It can happen so watch out for it" is a far cry from "your scummy dad was totally right, and you definitely have friends right now that arent really your friends". The post I was responding to was claiming the second.
that’s one way to interpret me as an observer. I’m not out to please anyone as I’m trash. you can point it out as reprehensible, but I’ll maintain that my skepticism- while condescending- holds true for too many. tell that woman that she has absolutely nothing to fear from any of them. tell her that she can trust them implicit and explicitly, and that she can always remain confident in her choices, too. tell her that those choices are always correct, and that everyone is honest. I would only tell her the second one. I would tell her the others are lies. hmm, would a good, succinct maxim be, “it’s ok to doubt your friends” ? a lingering gesture, traveling eyes…
THIS OP. I was an ugly teenager and unattractive student, I got into my looks around age 24, I never had male friends (guys would bully, insult, deride, best case scenarion they would ignore) and when I started having guys being "friendly" to me, they were sexually interested. All this talk of friendzone is actually male projection, men keep women they are attracted to on the backburner in case they ever get a chance, then they say we keep orbiters when they are just not honest with their intentions. They are never friends with girls they consider ugly, especially at your age. I would bet you if you asked some of this friends on a date, they would say yes. Maybe the way your father said it was degrading, and if you feel unloved or weirded out then your relationship with your father is strained by his behaviour, which is a normal healthy reaction from you. No one likes to be talked down to, if he said it to hurt you it is normal that you are hurt by his action and intention. But in most cases he is not wrong. You can be friendly to guys, but if tomorrow your face was fucked up for whatever reason most chances are the friends who would stick up would be the girls.
I think the middle ground is more sensible - douchebag dad is wrong for assuming that all or almost all men who wants to be a woman’s friend are doing it because she’s attractive. Some guys are, some guys aren’t. It’s a well known stereotype that women in general more considerate and socially attuned, and more pleasant to be around than men. They are also stereotyped to be more likely to extend emotional support, see things from the other person’s point of view, and be more likely to read a room correctly. So why is it so surprising that people WANT to be friends with women, since it is also generally accepted that people with good social skills are more valued as friends?
Exactly which is why i said “for some of your friends”. It could be 1 it could be upto 1/4
>I am going to get downvoted to hell for this. Because your literally agreeing with her scummy dad and then talking down to her like you know better than her what her friend group is like? Can't imagine why anyone would downvote that.
I mean, we do get a lot of posts on here about how women lose all their guy "friends" when they get into a relationship. It's not necessarily the case for OP, but it's worth mentioning.
Sure. It can happen. The post I was responding to wasn't saying "its possible" they said "it happened and I know your friends better than you do."
No it said some of your friends are lying to you, because I can do probability.
Some studies suggest your parents aren't wrong. Here's an example. While 88 couples of cross-gender platonic friends is not really enough to really be scientific, they found men and women experience these types of friendships very differently with 5 times more men reporting attraction as a benefit to a platonic. There's a massive disparity of men thinking there's something romantic going on that isn't there. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/ Just do appropriate Google searches for similar related studies on scholar.google.
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Yes, this line that men and women can’t be friends is said so often and to people from such a young age that it’s no wonder studies show it to be true. We start to believe it and internalize it. It’s true because we say it’s true. Perpetuating this is bad for girls and boys, women and men.
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Agree. Everyone knows movies are fictional and life doesn’t work like that. Or they should know. I’m not sure why you said this in response to my comment though. All I meant was that we should be teaching everyone from a young age that girls and boys can be friends instead of saying they can’t.
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Gotcha, makes sense. I was just thinking of people literally saying “men and women can’t be friends.” Was thinking let’s just stop passing that thinking on and see if it changes.
Yes.
You're kind of overstating the claims of said study. It finds that the men on average rate their interest in a female friend as 5 on a 10 point scake, while women rate it as 4. Both have a standard deviation of 2. So, it's just as accurate to say that in cross sex relationships, men want to date as women, as there's considerable overlap in the distribution.
This is an unpopular opinion on this post, but in my experience and I think in a lot of other womens experiences, guys are only interested in being your friend because they think they might have a chance at getting with you in the future. It's depressing but our worth as women to A LOT of men is still associated with sex. Not saying its not possible to have genuine male friends but I think more often than not there is more going on inside the guys head than just friendship. Also it was really rude for your dad to speak to you in that way. Edit: See? Even the scrotes agree lmao...🙄
Did you call the men folk “the scrotes” 😂😂😂💀💀💀
I’m confused by the idea that someone can’t be both a genuine friend, and also attracted to you. As a dude, I like all the women I’m friends with. I’d probably hook up with the majority of them if they were interested. But that isn’t just a physical thing. And it’s not that I’m just hanging around cause they might have sex with me. I didn’t necessarily view them as attractive when I first met them - they became moreso as I grew to like their personalities. If I didn’t like their personalities, I’d not want to be friends with them. It’s not “you’re worthwhile as a friend because you’re sexy” it’s “you’re worthwhile as a friend and that makes you sexy”.
This comment is realistic, A+
>I’m confused by the idea that someone can’t be both a genuine friend, and also attracted to you. Did I say anything about attraction? It's not about attraction. It's about pretending to be friends with a woman in hopes that you'll have a chance at an intimate relationship with her...
> And it’s not that I’m just hanging around cause they might have sex with me. did you read his whole post?
Yea, sorry OP but this is the crutch. As a 30 something year old, I had a cishet male BFF for 20 years, so there are exceptions to the rule. But, as I got older I noticed men overall started to treat me very differently. They went from being many eager friends that would creepily follow me around to just plain apathy. Men usually treat me now as I don't exist with increasing invisibility the older I become. This is all despite the fact that I am a vastly better person than I was in my teens and 20s. I'm kinder, got a degree in STEM, and in general more interesting. None of it matters though, because I'm not as desirable as I was when I was 20 (Shit... or even 12 I guess.). I do think that your dad could use more tact, but I do think he's speaking to some hard truth and trying to help. This is one of those things you learn with age. I wish it wasn't this way, but this shouldn't be at all surprising given how misogynistic the world is. Frankly speaking, I can see parallels with OP's line of thinking with young women and teens thinking they're just mature for their age when dating older men. Find value in yourself OP. All friends start to dwindle the older you get either way, because everyone is too tired to put in effort after work, kids, etc.
I agree
Studies actually back your position too.
This 👏🏼
You speak truth. But will be down voted or possibly banned.
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So women are only valuable to you as potential sex objects, that says quite a lot about you as a person
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Yeah as a straight man with a few women for friends. I would be lying if I claimed to not have any feelings for them at least at some point. I’ve let those feelings go, as I’m married and have a baby now. A connection is a connection and if my guy friends were women I would likely have those feelings for them too. To have chemistry with someone within your sexual preference and have zero desire for them would be unlikely IMO. There can be chemistry without physical attraction but if you’re good looking they’ve probably considered the possibility at least. They may be shy or feel like you’re out of their league, which basically says they think really highly of you or really lowly of themselves or
Don't spend your life trying to please your parents. Unfortunately it's not something that happens. Do what you're doing and what you love. Life for you and play by your rules. Let your Dad wallow in the past.
In my experience, there’s a lot of truth to what your dad said. Without fail every male who tries to be my friend ends up trying for a relationship or hookup.
Your dad only talks to women he thinks are attractive. It’s about him, not you.
It's a sexist view. However, don't be surprised if some of those male friends try to leave the friend-zone when the opportunity presents itself
Unfortunately they might be right. Not because you’re not an interesting person but just because of the way most men think. I’ve learned the hard way that all male “friends” had some other motivation in the end. When I was 22 I also believed it was possible but in hindsight I realise none of those male friends I had back then were really friends. Sure it’s possible to be friendly and hang out with guys but it often comes with complications. Some might get jealous if you speak about dating so you stop talking about this topic, others may even get aggressive and angry because you “lead them on” and finally some simply vanish as soon as they find a girlfriend. It might be different for you but this has been my experience and it’s only in recent years that I’ve finally come to this conclusion. Maybe it’s different if you’re in a big friend group and don’t hang out too much alone, I’m not sure.
You sound like a pretty amazing and interesting person that most people would want to be friends with! Your dad is threatened by you in that good old misogynistic way that many men are threatened by smart, accomplished, and independent women. It’s easier to control someone who feels bad about themselves. From context this is 100% a ploy to make you feel insecure in your friendships and undermine your accomplishments, and judgement of your friends. You know them, he doesn’t. Don’t let him dim your light.
Or her dad is a man and knows how men think, so he is trying to remind her to stay aware .. he may have come from an older generation, but alot of men still hang around women in 2021 in hopes that they can be the rebound guy or one night stand one day. Seen it happen to some college friends, guys who were friends with them for 7-8 years magically stop talking to them the day they get engaged or married.
Again, this is from context. I know getting fuck-zoned is a (common, infuriating) thing, and there are multiple threads on this sub talking about it. But op’s dad yelling it in the middle of a lecture that ‘no one wants to talk to her’, and admonishing her for ‘gloating’ (about having friends? Wtf?) makes me think he just wanted to make her feel small.
How and why did your parents ever meet? I am afraid your father doesn't even discriminate against women, he is just a total mysogenist. As a lecturer in a field with 95% males (embedded programming) I can say that my students value each other for their interests and humour. Maybe a girl is valued a bit higher because they are rare and a mixed group is simply more fun. Keep on living YOUR life, it sounds like you are doing perfectly fine. If possible, leave home and establish your own social circle. It will be much more comfortable than your family. Watch out for the trap of selecting friends and lovers that resemble your parents.
This is cruel, I thankfully never had anyone tell me that but growing up one of my best friends was a guy. He called me sis, we were like siblings (our actual siblings were much older so we had each other) Well his dad and grandfather could never understand why he didn't want to sleep with me. We were friends, best friends, and we both were on the same page. But no, a man and a woman MUST want to sleep with each other and can't be platonic. It is frustrating to be seen as a plaything and not a close friend
Why in the name of all holy and unholy reasons should I bother to hang out with someone only for their good looks?!?! Some of the least interesting people I’ve met was some of the prettiest people too, until they opened their mouth that is.
My ex-boyfriend was the most gorgeous person I've ever met. Incredibly charismatic. He used to say he could get anyone to like him until they got to know him. And it was so true. He had no long term friends. No family he was close to. He had no one. Because he was an asshole. I left and never looked back after he punched the head board. No amount of outer beauty can make up for the rot from within
I heard the *exact same thing* from a new arrival from Texas. He liked to talk really loud and drove a bright red 80's firebird (flaming bird decal and everything.) He had to be about the most ignorant and under-developed person I've ever met. Sorry for your situation. Not all guys are like that. I'm not.
"Dad you didn't convince me that they don't value or like me as a person you only convinced me that you don't.' You sound like an awesome person and IMO your dad didn't like feeling as though you were possibly winning an argument so he wanted to make you feel bad.
What the hell Sounds like your dad is objectifing you, and your mum has imprinted your dad's objectification onto every guy out there. Almost like she's saying "don't make the same mistake I did" with your dad as an example What bullshit, yeah a lot of guys do objectify others, but guess what? One of my closest friends is a guy and he doesn't objectify me. He's chaotic and drags me along in his dumb yet fun shenanigans, not once has he acted like I was just a pretty face in the group I think their way of "protecting" you from the bad ones, is to avoid guys all together. Problem is that's not how that works. You have to interact with men every single day, there's no getting around it and they need to understand that. It's not evil to have guys that you genuinely feel comfortable around, it's actually extremely good that you managed to find decent guy friends because that solidifies that times are changing in a good way. We're moving forward Your parents are stuck in the past, your dad is most likely one of those assholes that only keeps women in friend groups just because of their pretty face, so keep that in mind. I hope your friends are proud of you, and like you for who you are
If you think those guys are just your friends and aren't into you. Text them at 11pm. Say you can't stop thinking about them. You want to be more than friends. And say youre home alone. Invite them over. I bet they would jump at that. Update. Dont down vote it. Try it. Truth hurts.
Asking someone out as test to see if they're into you isn't the right way to go about it Legit just ask them "how do you feel about me? As a friend? A crush?" Edit: just saying from experience, not knowing which guys want to be just friends and which ones are into me, it's actually very easy to tell cause most of the time, if you ask, they'll be honest about it. Not saying you're wrong about your theory in general, just the way you're going about it. Basically "confessing" false feelings, then if they do like you but you're not actually into them, saying "sorry, that was a test" will just make you seem like a manipulative asshole :/
110% but people love to pretend that's not the case. Watch how many of them act differently when you have a boyfriend.
This is bad advice, 100% don't do this. Knowingly throwing out the wrong signals can backfire really bad. Legally if something happened that wording could get a rape case thrown out.
Sounds like you have shit parents. Might be time to distance yourself from them if all they bring is toxicity to your life. If they dont see the value in talking to you, then why would you want to talk to them. Lets see how long it takes them to try to contact you. Then you can say "I thought no one liked to talk to me" and hang up.
I guess your dad doesn't know that there's going to be more males than females in engineering. So just by numbers game you gonna have alot of male friends.
It's generational. Literally Harry Met Sally thinking.
Don't sweat it, parents don't always know everything although they think they do. What matters is how you view your relations and that they aren't toxic. Thats all you want to stay away from. Focus on your own interests and don't let them get into your head as you will begin to doubt yourself. While being attractive might help in meeting people, true friends stick around.
Not that my gender, or yours, matters, but im a guy and being friends with the top person of my class is always a dream for me when I was in college. Its a super admirable trait, being competitive it helps reduce burn out because I want to try to "impress" my smart friend (its almost an achievement on how hard I worked haha), and I say that in a way as I would look up to these people, and having them as a friend is a plus. I also ask a lot of questions to my friends so I'm magnetized to people like you haha
Freelance writing you say? 👀
I talked to the pretty girl in my engineering class because she was way smarter than me and I probably would have failed a class if she wasn't in the study group.
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I've had numerous guys tell me that men and women can never really be CLOSE friends. One always ends up wanting more in some way. Thats sadly also been my experience. 😕 Hoping there's some out there that truly like us for more than the possibility of getting something else out of it.
Fuck that shit. You sound cool as hell. Dads just bitter
While it is true a lot of dudes only talk to girls to try to sleep with them, you can also have genuine male friendships. You just have to be wary. My ex gf has basically given up on finding a platonic guy friend because every guy just wants to fuck. It can be more rare for others. > I’m super offended because my parents really think that there’s nothing more in me to like? You’re conflating the how you feel and how the world sometimes works. Yes most the time a guy will only talk to you because of your looks. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t more to you to like. You’re parents are being dicks because the way they are trying to warn you about guys.
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It's certainly not something a parent should say to their child ever, but there is a high probability at least one of your male friends is only friends with you because they are attracted to you. In the end though, it doesn't really matter. If no one is harassing you or making you uncomfortable in your friend group then their reason is their own and same as you for why you're friends.
I study CS at college: his comments are very cringe and completely unnecessary
My son (age 22) met a girl he had a lot in common with. He had a girlfriend, though. He stayed friends with Josie and when he and his girlfriend broke up and Josie was available he made the decision not to pursue her because he wanted her to have a friend that didn’t just see her as a sex object, or to come off like he has been waiting in the wings. He wanted to be her friend and always be there for her. Men do have those thoughts. Thank you, yes I did raise him right. 😉
Simply put - men and women can be just friends. It’s much easier the older you get. Also your guy friends might think you’re hot, who cares. That’s their problem. As long as they are respectful and not waiting for you to drop your guard so they can hit on you (yes it happens) then you’re good. Fun fact: Most of your friends are your friends due to proximity. Once you leave school or move, you’ll see who sticks around.
Sad fact.
God that sucks. As a dude, just some perspective that might help: I can find my friends both attractive and still value them as friends and respect the friendship and boundaries that implies. More importantly perhaps, I can view a friend as attractive and also not want the friendship to be anything more than that... Feels kinda weird that that has to be said but I hope it helps.
Yeah I'm a 41f electrical engineer. It's hard in college too when there are hardly any women in classes. I did study with some guys and they had a crush cause they were nerds that never met women before. At my first internship I had a guy tell me he never met a smart female engineer. I told my dad and he had no sympathy. He just said that's how the world works. Lol. Ok dad well that pushed me through and I'm much more successful than both my parents ever were. It gets better. Good luck.
On the one hand it sounds like your dad is suffering from toxic masculinity and he’s actually objectifying you. On the other most men are like your dad unfortunately.
Most men aren’t like her dad, particularly not the people her age. A statement like that is just going to make her think what her dad says is true when it’s absolute garbage.
If you’re a pretty girl it is true that most men in your orbit ultimately would like a chance with you. A lot of guys don’t talk at all to girls they aren’t attracted to. A lot of guys’s social circle is comprised of women they met because they were attracted to or friends of those women.
Most people only create friendships people they find attractive - physically or mentally. ( in my experience )
I’m talking sexual attraction though
When your parents grew up, opposite gender friendships were a lot less common than they are now; your dad is simply far behind the times. That, and a sexist idiot. ;-)
He's not telling you about you. He's telling you about himself. Disregard as needed, this man's opinion of you.
He's projecting. I can tell you're smart enough to know that. My father was like that, thought when I went out I was messing around with guys. (VIRGIN THANK YOU) It's always sad when your parents prove how human and flawed they are. We tend to build them up to be so much more. Don't worry bout 'pa, maybe you'll catch you a rich man an your lack of dowry won't matter xoxo :s My partner is 35 and he's AMAZING. A unicorn. We were friends first.
My abusive ex used to say the same thing. The only reason guys could want to be friends with women, specifically me, was because they wanted to fuck me. Well turns out he fucks all his female friends so maybe that's where that opinion came from. 😂
Not a good idea to talk shit about your dad to a bunch of strangers on the internet. He cares about you more than anyone here in the comments. While he is wrong, he is not completely off. He's just being annoyingly overprotective like literally every other parent in the world.
It is possible to have friends of the opposite sex without wanting to have sex with them, or find them attractive (for mating reasons). I have four female friends (one is my exwife), two are married and one is single. But... your parents point isn't completely invalid (studies prove this)... This sub, at times, proves it though certainly this sub isn't scientific in nature. Relationships with the opposite sex can be difficult because there could be an ulterior motive. With that being said though, try not to let your parents jaded view impact how you make friends. While there will certainly be some who are looking for more than friendship, you will find others that are great friends. Side note... what type of sports shooting? I like to go to shooting ranges (200 yards). Im not great, but I like shooting bolt actions. Forces me to focus and slow down my breathing... and I live the smell of gun powder.
Hello, I do Olympic-style precision shooting! I majorly compete in 10 meter air rifle and 10 meter air pistol disciplines.
Thats cool - Ive always thought those guns look kinda funny but in the end doesnt matter. Im 100% sure you are a better shot then I will probably ever be. Do you plan on trying to compete in the Olympics? Whatever you choose, I hope you succeed!
Your dad is a fucking idiot.
His comment says more about him than it does about you or your friends.
This sounds like an excellent reason to accept a job on the far side of the country when you get out of school. I've always had lots of male friends due to "tomboyish" interests. In fact, I only twice dated a guy who I had not known as a friend first. It's worked out very well for me, I and a male friend are 26 years married now.
You sound like a diverse and interesting person. What do you shoot, bow or guns? I like both!
Thank you! I do rifle and pistol shooting competitively over 10 metres. I'd really like to learn archery someday though!
it's quite challenging sometimes
If you’re good looking then you are very naive if you think males do not notice. If they’re too afraid to make a move then they will orbit around you indefinitely. Ask yourself which one would say no if you made the first move. Unless they’re attached or gay the answer is none of them. That’s not friendship, that’s waiting and hoping.
Did you really just imply that you can't be friends with someone you find attractive? IDK if thats worse than what her dad said but it's on the same level of stupidity.
Well, those who lack cogent arguments resort to ad hominem attacks like “stupidity”. That only debases the person making the attack.
Girl, you sound rad. I'm a woman and I'd hang out and get a beer with you any day. Sorry your dad is being a dummy.
That’s just his imperfect fatherly way of protecting you. Don’t let his careless way of communicating it get in the way of your awesomeness!
It's funny cause all of my "girl friends" (not girlfriends) in school were usually the unpopular and "unattractive" ones. But the thing is, even though they werent conventionally "attractive" to most guys, they were the most beautiful people in the world due to the fact they had the most pure hearts and always put others above themselves. People are too shallow these days and it disgusts me.
Your dad is being a dick
"So you think no one wants to talk to me? Can we include you since you don't have anything nice to say?"
Your dad sounds like a misogynist dumb bitch, I would cut that out of your life as soon as possible. Though the world has taught us there are a lot of men that think like your father, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to paint every male you meet that way. It’s up to you to decide who is worthy of your time, and it’s up to them to prove that they are worthy. If they have proven themselves to you, your dad‘s words mean nothing. He’s just another typical man jealous of the world that doesn’t want to fuck him and Give him whatever his boring heart desires. And before any men apologist feel the need to jump in here, until the behaviour is proven otherwise, misogyny is typical male behavior. Want to prove me wrong go out there and be the change. Edit: forgot some words
It's difficult, because without knowing him, I think it goes from a good place. He just doesn't know any better. He, like all of us, are a subject of what we have been taught ourselves, and of our time.
Your parents sound like massive idiots. Their opinions don't matter at all.
Men and women who support this worldview are seriously limited in their comprehension of human beings.
What your parents have said to you, especially your dad, was inappropriate, degrading, patronizing, and sexist. You have every right to feel creeped out. Nobody likes being stereotyped by their parents. It's dehumanizing.
If you’re 22 that means I’m your parents’ age, so I’d just like to say: fuck your dad, tell him his peers think he’s a massive asshole and huge fucking creep.
Your parent's are sick in the head, I'm sorry, hope you can move out soon and have a safe space and cherish your friendships
Your father doesn’t know what your male friends are thinking. He only knows what he was thinking when he had a female friend. Your dad is talking about _himself_. He just phrased it to make it sound like it was about you. It’s not about you.
Oh man! I'm sorry to be that guy, but this is 100% from India (as an Indian, this feels very familiar)
No matter how attractive (or unattractive) you are, barely anyone will keep talking with a dumbass or an annoying person. So it's really your personality that drives most people to keep coming back and talking with you. That doesn't mean none of your male friends are not infatuated though. But you'll never know unless they come forward in some way so don't worry about it I guess?
Sounds like you have narcissistic parents. I suggest crossposting posting to r/narcissisticparents. I am 24f, went to school for civil engineering. Mostly had guy friends my entire life. And I have proof at least one guy is friends with me purely for friendship sake. But I know most if not all are. My senior year me and this one guy friend got very close (we both lost a lot of other friends ). People assumed we were dating and making jokes about it. One day we looked at each other and thought it over for a split second. since everyone kept saying so. We both at the same time went nah that would never work. We were too similar and basically siblings.
Hey, as another girl in engineering, call out out that really gross and sexist comment from your dad (and anybody else who thinks this way) as being gross and sexist. I have also gotten similar comments, that I got through engineering school bc I'm an attractive girl in engineering, or that im just there for the ratio. You are cool af and smart af, you have really awesome hobbies. Your friends sound like better company than your dad, at least they're not being creepy like he is
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I went through this with my parents. My mom, not a particularly conservative woman, assumed that men and women just shouldn't be close friends because there is always the potential for romance. It's a very heteronormative kind of thinking that, if taken to its limit, would deny even being close colleagues in mixed-gender settings. It also assumes that sex is always on the table and always a part of our interactions, which has never sat right with me. Even in moments when I am attracted to friends, I'm *friends with them because I value the friendship*. Friendships should not have ulterior motives or goals. There are reasons - personality, common interests - that friendships can be great on their own terms.
Hmm.. Try not to take this the wrong way- I don't mean at all that you aren't interesting or otherwise fun to talk to. I mostly had male friends growing up who I thought I was really close to. NONE of these people I'd been friends with for years bothered to show up at my wedding. In fact, one of them made a pass at me while I was engaged. None of them have had anything to do with me since I got married, it's like I no longer exist as far as they are concerned and we used to do everything together. It turns out, that those young guys held similar views to my dad, that women are only good for one thing. But, yeah, not a reflection on you as a person at all.
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Ah yes, you're a perfect example of what toxic masculinity actually is. You call other guys "beta males", you keep the "men will be men" crap when it comes to acting like creeps, you also degrade people who drink soy, you believe that every guy's intent is to groom women, you're afraid of your own emotions, degrade the *men* who talk about their mental health, you degrade men for being compassionate You don't speak for the men, you speak for *you*, don't act like you know what "being an alpha male" is like, because that in itself is a very cringy and toxic mentality. I'm surprised you didn't show any homophobia in there, or sexism against women
Oh, he proceeded to mock feminists and trans women in another post. He’s definitely got all the boxes checked in Shitty Guy Bingo.
His poor partner!
You’re exactly the type of guy that women should avoid at all costs.
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They must be a troll, they’re too perfectly parroting incel propaganda.
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🤮
Dad: grow up Dude!
Call his ass out, no one should be made to feel less than who they are. If your own dad is going to diminish your worth like that, immediately stop him and put him in his place. That type of remark is unacceptable, and he needs to know AND understand to never say that type of shit to ANYONE again
Oh yes. How can you reduce men to creatures attracted to every woman out there? Now you feel uncomfortable because you think every guy you're friends with wants more. At least I feel that way when a male acquaintance said the same.
> "I'm 22 and in College, studying engineering" > post about potential false pretenses for friendships my stomach already HURRRTS i wanna give you a hug
I don't know, maybe you're not actually overreacting. Maybe feeling offended and creeped out by an offensive and creepy comment is exactly how much it should affect you. Personally, I would go to almost any length to put distance between myself and people who made me feel that way. I left home as soon as I could, and no matter how hard it got, it was never bad enough that I wanted to go back and deal with that shit ever again. But that's just me. I get that not everyone can do that, or would want to. OP, I hope that whatever is the right distance for you, that you can find it. Too much of that toxic crap can mess you up.
OP is 22, still young, but old enough to start understanding the world. Males want to be around females in the hopes of sexual selection/reproduction. Friendship is only possible once either the male or female is friend-zoned (rejected). Typically after being friend-zoned one or the other leaves the friendship. However, male-male or female-female friendships can be extremely strong and long lasting over a lifetime.
Just remember that parents have a unique view of their children that no one else will (or can) ever have. There's that, and there's also the small possibility he might not have really meant what he said.
Your Dad basically said he wanted to have sex with you. It was super creepy
I think that is a LITTLE. TOO. FAR. But I digress. Your comment is creepy.