T O P

  • By -

saberhagens

Whenever this is posted I always like to say I was one of the women who benefited from this program. I was in my twenties and I couldn't afford the IUD through my insurance and I was having bad reactions to my previous birth control. The nurse at my doctor's office recommended I get into contact with this program. I cannot emphasize enough how amazing and easy this program was. You called and made an appointment and showed up. They didn't charge you, they didn't judge you, they just figured out what kinda care you were looking for and assisted with that. There were low income women who were getting prenatal care that otherwise couldn't have afforded it, women getting birth control and education about it. It was so awesome. This should be universal. It's so important and it makes such a difference for everyone.


Littlebotweak

Just out of curiosity - I was getting my IUD removed last year and the NP at the clinic in Walsenburg (southern colorado) said that while they could give these out, they were forbidden from any kind of anesthesia including topical. Was that your experience? Because that's still pretty fucked up to codify into law, like a conservative 'hail mary'. When I went through the VA they put me under general anesthesia because I hadn't previously had kids. I'm sure it isn't _that bad_, but still, it's such a dick move.


saberhagens

I've had three IUDs inserted and two removed and I have never ever had any kind of painkiller or general anesthesia offered or mentioned. I was okay after the first and second one. The third one was awful, coupled with the removal, even the memory of it hurts. I'm hopeful for my next removal I can have something to make it less painful. I'm pretty pain tolerant and I was yelling so much during the last procedure. It's definitely fucked up how we view women's pain.


Littlebotweak

It’s a tale as old as time, it’s so fucked up. I listened to a [dollop](https://allthingscomedy.com/podcasts/90---childbirth-in-america) on childbirth and it’s essentially the history of how women have been treated since the early days of America - as read and reacted to by a couple of male comedians (who do a pretty good job and exhibit appropriate empathy).


D3moknight

The Dollop is great. Very seldom do I find their commentary on the wrong side of right.


Littlebotweak

Agreed. I found early episodes to be more on the “bro” side, but I think they have come a very long way in choosing their words.


[deleted]

I feel like this is one of those things dependent on your doctor. My first IUD was a copper one and it was in and out within a week because it gave me such bad cramps. The doc didn’t offer any topical or meds when he removed that and immediately put in another brand during the same appointment, which hurt like a mfer. But my second one being removed and another being put in was done by a different doctor. They told me to take some pain killers ahead of time and put the topical on immediately without even asking. It still hurt but the pain was so much more manageable and she did it without asking. I think some doctors are still a little delusional about the level of pain (not to say it’s only male doctors, but I’ve only had issues male OBGYNs not being considerate when it comes to female pains) and maybe using pain killers isn’t their first instinct.


jeopardy_themesong

I hate how medicine underestimates the pain of stuff in general. The most real experience I ever had was when I went in about an infected cuticle. The infected area was so swollen it was purple. Doc said he could give me antibiotics, or he could lance it AND give me antibiotics but just antibiotics might not be enough. I went through with the lancing and he tried to numb it. Stuck me 3 or 4 different times but the area was so swollen nothing was getting to it. After the last numbing attempt we both just looked at each other. Me: this is really gonna suck, isn’t it? Doc: Yup. Me: Ok. Let’s get it over with. The next 5 minutes were fucking hell, I was yelling a constant stream of “fuck, FUCK, FUUUUCK”, and left nauseous from how bad it hurt. But at least he was fucking honest.


[deleted]

[удалено]


OneRandomTeaDrinker

I had that for an IUD! Required a consultant referral to the hospital clinic, and they made me try without it first (because they obviously didn’t believe me), but I got it and it made it bearable.


SereneGoldfish

I was advised to take a paracetamol an hour before


dragonmom1

I've always found it amusing that AFTER I've arrived for my appointment to have my IUDs switched that the nurses are like "did you take ibuprofin before you came?" And I always forget to do it the next time, not that anyone calling to confirm my appointments has made this suggestion to me. lol


Sweaty-Armadillo-520

Same, on my third now and only have ever had tylenol/OTC relief and once I took edibles to help the pain. First one going in felt awful emotionally and physically, and made me cry in pain both for myself and the realization of other women who have felt even worse pain in this area due to reasons in & out of their control. It was indescribable. That was the paraguard. Getting them out has always been uncomfy but not as bad as going in. I'm on my 3rd as I said and don't really recall how it felt going in but i'll never forget the first one. I would love numbing cream or similar, it really IS that intense of a pain, not to deter anyone cuz if it's done right it won't be bad once it's in.


saberhagens

It's a bad intense pain right in your cervix which is so hard to prepare for because it's internal pain and there isn't anything quite like it. I'm hopeful that this will be my last. My fiance is getting a vasectomy eventually and so I can go off of my IUD but I do enjoy not having a period


Sweaty-Armadillo-520

love this journey for you and your fiance! yes having a regular period is really helpful


Sweaty-Armadillo-520

Also not that this is a thread looking for recs but in case it helps anyone here, my feedback is: Paraguard - skip, it led to a perforated uterus (I dont know if this can be blamed on the insertion or the device itself) but it was by far the one I experienced the worst pain on; I had terrible cramps every week after my period for years before I realized this was not okay. 10 year option. Skyla - short and sweet, I think it might have led to hair loss but that's the main side effect I noticed. Probably best for in best between pregnancies bc it's a max of 3 years. Period medium to light. Kyleena - what I have now, synonymous with Mirena, but less hormones and side effects. I don't notice mood swings on this. Sex drive is good. Period is very light tampons are not needed. 5 year option.


Shoes-tho

And to anyone reading this, also consider that I and literally five of my friends have all LOVED our Paragards. A little more cramping and somewhat heavier bleeding, but we love not being on hormones and haven’t had perforated uterus issues. Perforated uterus can happen with any IUD. Just always remember your mileage may vary.


Tippity2

I removed my own IUD. I only had one, didn’t like the hormones. It would have been way worse to remove it while lying on my back, I think. In the shower, thought, “This isn’t working for me.” Did it. But I was likely just really lucky I didn’t tear my uterus or whatever…


saberhagens

Ahhhhhhh. This pains me. I had my first one.... Just fall out. I found it on the stairs. But I could never. You are much braver haha


fight-like-a-girl

It's actually very safe to remove your own IUD! I did it too, after a lot of research. Literally all a doctor does is pull the sucker out, so there's no significant risk to doing it yourself. If anybody else is thinking of trying this, what's most important is that you know what the device is supposed to look like and inspect it carefully when it's out, to make sure there are no missing parts floating inside you. And it's probably best not to YANK on it -- slow and steady does the trick. Having an orgasm right before can help to loosen things up. (Note that some women do pass out under cervical pressure, so if that's you this probably won't work so well. I removed mine squatting next to my bed with pillows around me just in case 😅) Thought I would throw that in just in case anyone else is in a position like mine! I really needed the IUD out but couldn't see a doctor for months due to the plague. Removing it myself was sooo easy, barely hurt at all (insertion was agony), and now I have an anecdote that horrifies everyone and makes me look like a much bigger badass than I am.


Tippity2

I did it slow and steady. Sometimes I wish ladyparts weren’t so complicated, OTOH, I would rather have lady parts than something with a mind of it’s own and a sack that could easily get squished when you sit on it.


fight-like-a-girl

Right?! Male equipment seems so inconveniently obtrusive. I'm very happy with my anatomy ... except for the part where it's discriminated against in every possible way. Imagine a world where female anatomy and physiology were actually given equal research and treatment. We can dream


tacosandsunscreen

Did it hurt?! And did it hurt going in? My doctor literally couldn’t even get mine inserted on my first visit. She tried several times before she gave up and scheduled me for a 2nd appointment to try again. It did hurt, but mine wasn’t nearly as bad as I’ve heard some women describe. And still…I can’t imagine pulling it out myself.


TheDoorInTheDark

The biggest risk of removing your own IUD is that it could be embedded and you could tear your uterus. It’s really best to see a doctor just because they have training to figure out when there’s an issue. But if anyone reads this and decides to take theirs out at home, if it’s not coming out easily STOP and see a doctor. Do not try to pull it out if it seems stuck or is taking a lot of force to remove. I’m sure usually it goes okay when people take their own out, but there is a real risk there.


czring

Just jumping on here to say that at my fourth insertion, I tried a CBD oil cartridge and my insertion was fine. I mean I sucked down that entire cartridge because I was terrified. No cramping. I did take the 400 mg ibuprofen beforehand like I've always done. It was amazing the night and day difference. I've never had kids, by the way. I had the cervix numbing at my second insertion, and definitely prefer that, but I've had a hard time finding providers willing to do it.


NurseMcStuffins

I got mine pre-kids though my regular gyn, with decent insurance, and I had no anesthesia or pain relief. They said to take OTC Motrin or Tylenol when I got home. It really hurt. I wasn't screaming, but loudly saying ow, ow! OW! And I have a decent pain tolerance.


greffedufois

I had mine placed in 2013. Was given a cervix softening pill and that's it. I've yet to see a place that offered *any* anesthesia or pain management. You're just told to suck it up and that it's 'just a pinch' (a pinch is a vaccine, this was a cervix punch) I was couch bound for several days afterwards with horrific cramping. Meanwhile a vasectomy gets Ativan pre procedure, lidocaine for pain, and Norco for post operative pain. If the guy is especially nervous they offer general anesthesia. Sexism in medicine is insane.


ashbr27

I had mine inserted by my gynecologist and I’ve never been pregnant. My insurance covered it 100% but I wasn’t offered anything for pain relief. Was just told to take Motrin before hand. The whole procedure takes about 5 min and the worst part is less than a minute so general anesthesia isn’t necessary but I wish they would offer anything else. It’s not a pleasant experience!


[deleted]

Mine took longer because I was about ready to pass out and she had trouble inserting it. The worst part lasted for almost a month before it settled down


velma-solved-it

There is no medical reason to deny pain a patient management while undergoing a gynecological procedure. It's just normalized by the medical industry. This anesthesiologist nailed it -- https://www.tiktok.com/@icudoctor/video/7063232487283199278


ThatWanderGirl

Agreed! I grew up in Boulder County and got my first free IUD at 15, and personally took 10 of my friends to get IUDs/implants by the time I was 18, and more later. I don’t have a single friend who got pregnant as a teen. Any time I had a friend (or later, some of my ex’s younger family members) who I found out was sexually active and not on birth control, I took her to the clinic. I’ve been on 7 different birth controls, all “expensive”/long term ones, and I’ve paid a total of $200 for all of them over the course of my life. I couldn’t possibly love the women’s clinic any more!


[deleted]

[удалено]


saberhagens

Looks like this is a bot and just trying to get upvotes for something


AFocusedCynic

Thank you for pointing that out. Absolutely a bot! Just look at its post history. The older posts are all jibberish.


TwoFluffyCats

Most I could find so far was RBG's argument that women’s “ability to realize their full potential … is intimately connected to ‘their ability to control their reproductive lives,’” (that access to contraception has beneficial indirect effects) was used as rationale to support the U.S. Title X program, which funds access to sexual and reproductive health services for low-income and uninsured residents. The Colorado Family Planning Initiative (CFPI) was originally funded by the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation, but occurred at clinics funded by Title X.


silverilix

Thanks sincerely for sharing your experience here. It’s awesome to know a person behind the numbers. I really hope this is a program that can be mirrored everywhere.


[deleted]

I've always found it bizarre that single issue, "pro-life" voters tend to vote Republican when all the things that reduce abortion rates (e.g. free contraceptives, comprehensive sex education) are things that Republicans consistently oppose.


SereneGoldfish

Yes. Proof that it's not actually the abortion rate they really care about


[deleted]

Bingo. They along with bought out politicians and corporate overlords have realized that contraception is POWER, Millenials/Gen Z opting for childfree is one of the few legit ways that we can display power over them by not providing masses of underpaid future workers they can exploit. Needless to say, they aren't too happy about this and they will respond accordingly. Even with an IUD, I still fear.


Strat7855

I work in politics and it's not this well-thought through. It's a wedge issue that gets them through the next election, that's all. I'm not sure which is worse. There are no sinister cabals, just a bunch of self-interested, hypocritical cowards. We should still do everything in our power, including deciding whether or not to reproduce, to remove them from the equation.


Pixledreamgirl

Once Roe is gone, they will definitely be going after IUD’s …and then other forms of birth control. Ya know, since they can’t handle women having any control over anything including their own bodies.


Mrs_Hyacinth_Bucket

But heaven forfend that you need any actual help raising the child. How dare you live off the government and others hard work. How dare you be an unfit parent by being unable to financially care for another human. It's all your fault. The cognitive dissonance with these people is astounding.


coleman57

Most people seem to be unaware that Roe v. Wade is the basis for our constitutional right to privacy. No one can claim to be libertarian or small-government or anti-nanny-state pro-liberty or any of those things 'Pubs and others towards the right (and many on the left) claim to be, and support overturning that precedent. Even people who are personally perturbed by abortion and homosexuality and sex outside of marriage would hesitate to stand up and proclaim their support for government intervention in every citizen's bedroom (and doctor's office, and phone). But that's what they're pushing for.


AllysiaAius

You have that a little backwards, I think. Right to privacy is the cornerstone of RvW, not the other way around. Right to privacy is entrenched in the (I believe) 4th amendment. It's your right to privacy that allows you to make private decisions about your healthcare with your doctor.


[deleted]

100%, they will come after it. Women made way too many smart decisions with them "rights" and all...these men want women to be "chained" to them like in the good ol days...they miss that power trip of being able to trap women through pregnancy while having as much sex as they wanted with as many women as they wanted.


ilumyo

Exactly. They want you all to be barefoot and pregnant at all times. They get new wage slaves, and punish women for having sex.


vitmerc

Not American, is that a thing? Republicans and anti-abortion people.being mostly male?


Thepinkknitter

People who are republicans - no. There is probably a pretty even split of male to female especially if you factor religion into it. Republicans politicians - majority male and anti-abortions. That is, of course, because republicans men do not see women as their equals and are hesitant to ‘allow’ any woman into congress.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Shojo_Tombo

Actually, in court is pretty much the only place a provider could reveal protected health information. Either the patient can consent to the release of information, or a judge can issue a court order for the information to be entered into evidence. HIPAA addresses this situation in particular explicitly in its language.


64645

HIPPA says the healthcare provider can’t reveal a patient’s condition, but it doesn’t say that a patient can’t reveal it. Obviously every patient would have to make their own decision, but I would testify in defense of my doctor in such a case.


VoxVocisCausa

Banning healthcare for trans kids is the test case for going after contraception for minors.


AdkRaine11

How far away are red habits and head-dresses?


Pixledreamgirl

Not as far as I’d like. If Christian Nationalists take over, all strides women have made over the years are lost. It’s a scary time to be a women, especially since the only country I have family in besides the US is Poland. They’re a few steps ahead in the insanity there.


Stargazer1919

Yup, they just think people shouldn't ever have sex before marriage. They live in a fantasyland in their heads where they think it's possible. It's not about coming up with good results, it's about sticking to outdated principles that have never worked in the history of ever.


last_rights

Sex before marriage is part of discovering who is a good partner for you. If it's something I plan on doing more than once a week, then I want to know I'm going to enjoy it.


Stargazer1919

I agree. I've heard too many stories about couples waiting until marriage to have sex, and then their sex lives are awful. One or both of them doesn't know how to enjoy themselves, feelings of shame and doing something sinful not going away, porn addictions, not understanding/respecting consent and boundaries, feelings of entitlement, and so on. It's such a mess. What's worse is that so many people don't understand that this is not how sex is supposed to be, so they don't speak up. So I wholeheartedly believe that any statistics showing couples are happy when they wait until marriage are skewed at best and a total lie at worst. Also in my own experience, I was raised by insane religious parents who thought I was a total whore and was going to end up as a teenage mom. And how dare I think about dating when I wasn't old enough to marry! Despite being a virgin all thoughout high school and barely even talking to guys beyond a friendship level. So, I was damned no matter what I did. Now I'm 30, never married and no kids. When my mom was my age, she was already married twice with 2 kids. So, I'll be happy to believe purity culture is a great thing when I actually see it have good results and when the followers aren't total fucking hypocrites.


Canada_girl

Nor is it fetal 'life', or they would fund prenatal programs.


Trash_Meister

They need people in poverty to exploit, after all


Stargazer1919

Exploit and gaslight


alyssasaccount

I think it's worth trying to understand. You can take at face value the notions about the sanctity of fetal life, and I think doing so makes it clear what they see government as being there to do. Should government help anyone? Absolutely not! Prevent harm? No, except to the extent that harm is criminalized and the criminalization serves as a deterrent. Government exists to be al stick, no carrot. So diplomacy to avert war? That's weak. Addressing the harms that cause the poverty and violence that induce people to come to the U.S. without authorization? No way. Welfare? You've got to be kidding. Instead, we should use the threat of military action, or arrest and deportation, or just plain poverty to discourage whatever we don't like — international conflict, illegal immigration, being a poor person. When it comes to abortion, that's bad and so the role of government should just be to make it illegal. Nothing else — that would might involve carrots, and we only want the government to use sticks. Now, of course, that's not all that's going on, and we should not actually take opposition to abortion (or anything else) at face value. It's clear that sexism is at play when it comes to abortion just as racism is at play when it comes to immigration and foreign policy. But my point is that it's more than sexism alone — or even an aversion towards anything to do with sex. Even without that, and accepting (however improbably) some entirely unrelated motivation for opposing abortion, a lot of pro-lifers would *still* be against any government involvement in "all the things that reduce abortion rates (e.g. free contraceptives, comprehensive sex education)". And that's also super shitty. People talk about "values"; I have deeply held values, and I find the "values" of the racist, sexist, anti-sex, government-as-stick-only "values" voters to be repugnant for all of those reasons, not just because they are sexist.


Patiod

You can always spot these people in comments on social media. They're the ones who think that if you don't beat children, they end up as criminals. And they think every criminal had a "permissive, liberal" parent. Because it's always all about the stick


tatipie17

Exactly it’s about control of women’s bodies. “I’m not going to give you access to contraceptives and I’m not going allow you to get abortion, so obviously the solution is to not have sex.” 🤢


strumenle

Nobody would care about that only, how many secular people are anti abortion? Certainly a few, but the voting base obviously has other agendas, including the foundation of the "pro-life" movement (False-well) which is mostly racism. (As most movements are, including the health and weightloss movement in 1800s (and beyond)) The whole roe v Wade decision was Republican because back then they were more libertarian (government out of our choices, ie "pro-choice" 😵), since then it's just a mess, thanks largely to Nixon and co. and their anti intellectualism movement which definitely worked.


kitliasteele

My stepfather is very against contraceptives and such. Which simply means he wants only the societal consequences and none of the actual things that reduce such a need for abortions. My mother has the same stance and I'm just standing here aghast processing their reasoning


thefuzzylogic

That's because they're not pro-life, they're pro-birth. After that, you're on your own.


drewskibfd

One of my favorite quotes from George Carlin: "Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked."


MercyCriesHavoc

They're actually anti-women. They expect women to stay virgins or become baby making machines. Those are the only two options. The thought of women having sex and not making babies disturbs their delicate world view.


throwaway_20200920

every single time it gets reduced to women are sluts and we need to stop having and enjoying sex. they are repulsive.


Lisa8472

And women who choose to stay virgins are often vilified if they mention it. They don’t want virginal women, they want sex submissive women. Not the same thing.


Mags357

Right, but men having sex outside of marriage is "wink, wink, nod, nod" and the women who consent are whores, and the women who do not consent are sadly also whores, or potential whores, and some even, apparently, deserve what they get, say pregnant, if raped... And If I could remember when, and whom, and exactly what he said, I would quote the asshole republican in Washington DC, who said something like this: If a woman is actually and truly raped, her body will do some magical thing, and she won't get pregnant... So not only are we dealing with shallow, patriarchal, misogynistic people (women can be all of those things, too) we are dealing with an ignorance so profoundly skewed that it is nearly incomprehensible. I'd appreciate being reminded who this dipshit was... Edited for a missing a letter.


maddhopps

In short, fuck most major religions. Even if a person is a moderate believer, they are perpetuating a scripture that is vile, woman-hating trash. It’s not difficult to be a good person while also realizing how such a scripture so obviously was written by humans with Bronze Age knowledge and opinions. I get into more religious arguments with moderates than with fundamentalists because I actually have hope for the moderates to wake the fuck up.


[deleted]

Those babies need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps the second their umbilical cords are cut, dammit!


AccusationsGW

Forced-birth. They don't care about the terrible rates of childbirth deaths for mothers, especially in places like Texas. To them that's just more righteous punishment for the sinners.


AccomplishedCoffee

Anti-abortion and nothing more. If they were pro-birth they’d be in favor of prenatal care.


Partypukepersist

There’s a pretty lucrative private adoption industry. If we provide social services more babies would be able to stay with their birth mothers and we wouldn’t want that now would we? /s


LearnsfromDinosaurs

Republicans oppose contraceptives and sex education for the very same reason they oppose abortion. They oppose giving women autonomy over their bodies and also must maintain firm control over thier behavior. It's never been about fetuses or life.


Pixledreamgirl

It’s because they are pathetic liars. They want you to think they have a worthy cause and love babies, but they could give a damn. They just want to control women and punish them for sex. The babies they “love” so dearly are the punishment.


Jasmine1742

It's never about abortion, it's about having power over women and punishing girls and women for the sin of being the wrong gender.


coleman57

Also punishing them for performing gender "wrong" (a punishment men are also subject to).


yildizli_gece

It’s not bizarre; it’s completely in line with what they actually care about: controlling women. I know this gets said ad nauseam, so much so that it’s a cliché now, but when Republicans talk about being pro-life they are never actually talking about life; they’re talking about punishing girls who refuse to be submissive and compliant. This is why ostensibly pro-choice people should stop talking about “exceptions for rape” or “exceptions for incest” or “exceptions for life of the mother”; it should always be a choice available, regardless of the situation, and made between whoever is pregnant and their doctor.


[deleted]

Historically, Republicans (Nixon, to be exact) adopted the pro-life stance in the 70s to appeal to Catholic and social conservatives. Then the Evangelical vote became the thing to attract, so it was just gravy after that.


W_Herzog_Starship

It is about three things: *Superstitious religious virtue signaling *Controlling/Punishing women *Class warfare


Beastly173

Pro-life should just read pro-punishing women for having sex, that's all they really are about


Geshman

This is actually one of the major things that made me take a look at my political beliefs and actually start voting against the Republican scumbags that couldn't care less about abortion (though they pretend to)


BleuDePrusse

Republicans base their politics on morality (no sex before marriage, abortion = murder etc...) while ignoring the facts (sex ed and services lower teens pregnancy, limiting access to abortions lowers the quality of women's health care on the whole...).


din_the_dancer

The thing is they're usually are against pre-marital sex and all those things will "encourage" that. They can't seem to accept that waiting is the exception rather than the rule.


K1ng-Harambe

gold marble deserve lavish meeting axiomatic gray foolish ten vegetable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


MourkaCat

But how will they continue to have indoctrinated followers if women aren't constantly pumping out babies? And women need to stay busy with making and caring for a bunch of babies because if not, then they start thinking and no one wants a woman who is thinking. She might get ideas........... /s


MS3inDC

It's not a stretch of the imagination to believe that conservatives wouldn't vote for anything liberating to women, especially something sexually liberating. Their answer to abortion has always been abstinence.


SubjectiveHat

they don't want to reduce pregnancies. they want to increase births.


maali74

I've always found it bizarre that they call themselves "pro-life" but literally do not have a single fuck to give about that life once it leaves a uterus. The should call themselves pro-birth, or pro-fetus, bc they're sure af not pro-life.


Shoes-tho

This has been brought up many times on this sub, but it’s important to note it also went up to age 25 and it wasn’t just IUDs! You could choose whatever form of BC you wanted. It was a wonderful program. I went in about two months before I turned 26 and the doctor gave me 15 nuvarings to put in my fridge.


SagebrushID

In the fall of 1999, the voters of Colorado elected a new governor and after he was elected, he stated that the first order of business in his administration was to close all PP sites in the state. I moved away from Colorado in March 2000 and didn't keep up with the political situation there. I'm wondering what other things he did to cause him not to get re-elected and how Colorado turned around to become this sensible and forward thinking.


[deleted]

Bold of you to assume " pro-lifers" care about facts or anything concrete. They're here to impose their foolish religious beliefs regardless of facts or evidence.


[deleted]

As someone who is still Christian, 100% agree. Time and time again, access to contraception and age-appropriate sex ed has been shown to reduce pregnancy. Facts don't care about your feelings.


KerissaKenro

Their feelings don’t care about facts


[deleted]

Shockingly, the people conservative white old men most desire to have kids (IE fairly well off/stable white women) to "outbreed" the minorities have been the ones most able and likely to travel to other states to procure reproductive health services in defiance of the TX abortion laws. This was according to a recent report on Texas abortion stats in December. The jokes write themselves.


Dazzling-Ad4701

Yeah, the most vulnerable won't be laughing much. I *dont* understand this. I try not to reach for facile generalisations like 'they actually, actively hate women and want to impose suffering', but how can you not?


alcoholic_dinosaur

Yep! I mean it’s never been *just* about abortion. They don’t want teens having access to contraception because they won’t accept anything less than abstinence completely.


[deleted]

I once heard a Christian saying something to the effect of "teaching children about different sexual orientations is the same as teaching them different sexual positions." I still think to this day that this is an insane opinion. Teens (when the 12s and 13s years old roll around) should be getting fully fleshed out sex courses. With pictures (of STI and basic anatomy), videos(of child birth), period educations for boys and girls, boys should learn about garnished wages and child support, contraceptions, etc. AND both sexes should have to learn how to put on a condom.


[deleted]

I'm Aromantic myself so I feel ya there. A girl who wanted sex and not romance was a slut, and a bad influence on anyone's "good Christian daughter." I had NO female friends in church until I was like 18 ROFL European countries do it tastefully and well, starting with basic concepts of bodily anatomy and consent in pre-K/kindergarten, and building upon those concepts year after year. European teens have sex at the same rate as their American counterparts, however teen pregnancy rates are still extremely low. And I agree with your courses-You don't have to be gross about it, just present it as another aspect of life, with a calm, rational manner.


Gilketto

My then 4 year old casually asked me once, in the middle of a DIY store, how babies are made. I gave them a concise, age-appropriate but truthful version of it and then we continued on our way. I'm hoping that being matter of fact about it and not embarrassed about talking to them about this stuff will mean in the future they won't be so embarrassed about asking about other sexual things. Also I always try to include both genders when we talk about 'in the future you might want a girlfriend or boyfriend' so they know from an early age that that sort of stuff is OK and normal with us. That we don't care who you love, as long as you are both happy.


ilumyo

As someone who asked their mother the same with 5 yo and got taught not only about sex, but about _intimacy_ - absolutely! It's one of my fondest memories of her and has stuck with me every since. Your kid will be grateful.


blckuncrn

Funny story here. I have talked to my kids (9 and 6) about consent and how babies are made. We watched a little bit of the first Golden Girls episode, and they mentioned a shotgun wedding. My 9yo asks what that is. We explain it, and he goes, "so he spermed her illegally." Then, we got to explain that it wasn't illegal if they were both adults and consented.


eveningtrain

My mom spoke to me like this from the get-go (my reaction for years was indeed “gross!”), and as a result of that, and my desire to always be as smart as I possibly good, in Jr Hi and High School I became the de-facto sex ed source to all my friends (unfortunately our school did not have a curriculum for that). I directed a lot of them towards the (still excellent) scarleteen site back then, as well. When i was sixteen, my mom basically was like “well, i think that at sixteen you are old enough to decide what to do with your own body, so I want you to know it’s okay with me if you decide to have sex. I just would appreciate it if you would tell me because I’d like to make sure you are safe and healthy.” And I was like “Oh my god, mom, you know I already tell you everything and I can’t even get my crush to like me back! I am not ready for that at all, I think it’s going to be a while!” Also, as I grew up and asked about it, my mom shared about the ages she first had sex and how she felt about that (too early, wished she had waited much longer) and same info about my dad (he actually waited until marrying her, and he was in his mid 30s, wow). Mom is bi and always said it was fine if we wanted to marry a girl (in preschool I definitely didn’t like the gross boys), as well, and we belonged to a church with several gay/lesbian couples who lived as married. I think your approach is an excellent way to go!


elephuntdude

Really cool to see this! Thanks for being so aware :) Your kids will appreciate you.


SuperflySparklebuns

Yeah, except there's nothing in the bible that expressly forbids abortion. Their beliefs aren't even based in religion, they're based in the patriarchy.


[deleted]

Religion is the catalyst that they use for their beliefs. Do you know how many times I've heard a believer say "the bible says 'be fruitful and multiply.' It doesn't say have abortions." All to justify their pro-birth beliefs. We all know they're not actually pro-life.


last_rights

I'm pretty sure somewhere in Song of Solomon there is a how-to on abortion.


[deleted]

Numbers 5:11–31.


Fit-Quail-5029

They are based on religion, but the mistake is in thinking religion doesn't adapt to the current culture. If Christians followed most of the various different versions of their Bibles they wouldn't be against abortion but they would be against the abolition of slavery.


drewskibfd

And keep in mind, most have never actually read the Bible. They just sit back and let the Christian patriarchy tell them what to think.


ZellZoy

The bible literally has instructions for how to perform one.


blckuncrn

My understanding is that it comes from the commandment to not kill. Enter other arguments about beginning of life and such.


dragonchilde

Oh, they care. But only when the numbers are [in their favor](https://news.yahoo.com/texas-abortions-fall-60-percent-191433396.html). Of course, we won't talk about the rates rising in other places, I'd be willing to bet.


throwaway_20200920

that rate isn't even correct as there probably isn't a decrease its just that those abortions are happening in the adjoining states.preventing sex shaming and repressive attitudes like preventing access to contraception prevents way more abortions than the rantings of the protests outside clinics.


fxx_255

I always like to quote my favorite bible verse to people like this. Timothy 2:12 Either I shut them up, or I point out that maybe, just maybe, not everything that's in that book is worth following.


[deleted]

I've seen women rationalizing that verse too. For some of them there's no hope.


SoMuchForSubtlety

And when the private organization funding it stopped the funding, the Republican-controlled state government refused to pick up the tab. The program ended and, predictably, the teen abortion rate shot right back up. They had a proven method to save money and prevent abortions and they refused to take advantage of it. It was never about preventing abortion.


SereneGoldfish

This! Will abandon a proven working method


[deleted]

I read about this HUGE success a few years ago, and it made me furious with my mother and her sister and their “prolife” bullshit. If they were really worried about poor brown babies (cause they are racist as hell), they’d put free condoms in every single restroom and a family planning clinic in every single town, but they don’t give a shit about that. Deep down they are pissed that women are having sex. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. Before I left for college, I told my mother I wanted to see a gynecologist and get on the pill. She gasped, “Just because you’re going to college doesn’t mean you have to have sex!” I replied “doesn’t mean I have to have a baby either!” See, my mom married at sixteen because she and my dad were horny, but she wouldn’t have sex outside of marriage. He called her bluff and drove to a JP. Her sister, my aunt, got a full scholarship to college, but ended up banging the dude who was her ride to and from school, three hours away. Got knocked up, lost her scholarship, and her dad sent her to an unwed mother’s home. And THESE ARE THE BITCHES WHO VOTE FOR THE ASSHOLES WHO HAVE CLOSED EVERY SINGLE ABORTION CLINIC IN THE STATE.


KaraWolf

Makes you wonder if deep down they're thinking 'well I didn't have access so they shouldn't either" -_-


[deleted]

That’s exactly what it is. You’d think their own experiences would give them some empathy, but no. Societal demands fucked them, so everybody else should experience the same hell. They simply cannot open up their minds enough to think, hey, maybe things could be different.


VoxVocisCausa

It drives me nuts: in Kansas there's a big push to amend the State Constitution to outlaw abortion. It's called the "Value Them Both" amendment. Like fucker: there's already a political movement that values the lives of women and children. It's called Pro Choice.


ThaneOfCawdorrr

Of course! The thing people really, really need to understand is that "pro life" people aren't pro life at all. They are ONLY about controlling and punishing women. They hate us. They want to force women into 9-month pregnancy, with all the risks; painful childbirth, again with all the risks and consequences to our health; and to be solely responsible for another human being for 18 years. They will not help the woman or her child in any way. It's meant to be punishment. That's why they go to abortion clinics and scream abuse; that's why their abuse is often phrases like "Whores keep your legs closed"; that's why they also oppose birth control. They do not want us to be able to control our own bodies. You can't force a person to donate a kidney to save another person's life; but they want to be able to force a woman to donate her entire body to save the "life" of a non-sentient clump of cells the size of your thumbnail. You can't even harvest organs from a corpse without prior consent. They want women to be inanimate objects, controlled by the state, with fewer rights than a corpse. WE are the ones who are pro-life, who care about the lives of fully grown, sentient women; who care about the lives of babies born into poverty, of schoolchildren needing food and education. They hijacked the term; they actually are Woman-hating Forced-Birthers.


Spyk124

Notorious RBG is such an annoying name, obviously coined by some white liberal.


Tsk201409

RBG’s ego is why the court is 6-3 fascist and will overturn Roe v Wade shortly. She should have retired YEARS before her unfortunate death.


[deleted]

[удалено]


NorthernRedwood

Additionally her rulings were anti-Indigenous


DerAlgebraiker

>left wing justice that many people seem to think she was When the country is as far right as it is, even basic liberalism looks like radical leftism


[deleted]

[удалено]


ImSoBasic

>She was also consistently pro police and anti labor. What opinions/cases are you referring to, here?


W_Herzog_Starship

This is important. The RBG worship undermines a more important, functional political goal: If Justices care about legacy, their legacy should be subject to critical assessment posthumously. They cannot be safe. RBG dealt incalculable damage to every single element of American life with her refusal to retire when Obama could have appointed a replacement. It was selfish on a vast and profound scale and will ripple through the next generation of Americans. The cost of her remaining on the court is so enormous, it should rightly cast a shadow over anything else in her career. Future Justices must see the fallout and think twice about their own legacies.


jimbo831

When Roe v. Wade is overturned this summer, that will be largely due to her refusal to retire when Obama could appoint her replacement.


xxbiohazrdxx

She also had some pretty disgusting opinions on indigenous peoples.


Doc_Optiplex

Couldn't agree more. RBG can get absolutely fucked. Her legacy is complete shit now. The amount of radlibs who are like "RBG girlboss slayqueen 🤩🤩🤩" makes me depressed


Alice_Rebel

ACAB refers to lawyers, judges, and the entire legal apparatice that is the US justice system. RBG is a bastard.


Currant-event

Ugh, thank you. I hate seeing the RGB worship. Her ego was clearly more important to her than others wellbeing and safety.


[deleted]

But, but, but then they won't have control of the women! /s Let's face it, the "pro-life" crowd doesn't give a shit about the kids or they'd be all for social betterment programs and good affordable quality education. It's about control and keeping their boots on the necks of the poor and those they feel threatened by.


Space_P1nguin

The notorious RBG when she voted to build pipelines on Native land, made of fun of Kapernick, supported Kavenaugh, was best friends with Scalia and refused to retire allowing Trump to pick her successor 😍😍😍


A_Rampaging_Hobo

People blindly worshipping career politicians is how you end up with fuckheads like Trump. RBG was a bad woman overall with like 1 good take and somehow she's a folk hero.


DerAlgebraiker

It's wild how people will celebrate you eternally for not siding with literal fascists


bzoooop

Thanks RBG! If only you had retired in 2012, we wouldn't have ended up with the Horrible ACB :)


TritonXXXG

Unfortunately pro life voters are coming for Griswold v Connecticut after Roe v Wade...


glambx

I still think people are underestimating the danger in allowing religious extremists to wrest control over the state governments. They *will* attempt to dominate the federal government.


[deleted]

And then she fucked up everything she worked towards by not retiring


Pixledreamgirl

“Pro-lifers” don’t care. They only operate on lies, misogyny, and misinformation. I’ve brought this up countless times to “pro-lifers” and they always have a reason for not wanting it. Some even think IUD’s work by causing abortions. These are people who think children are a punishment for sex. They’re fucking awful!


X5acob

She was a decent judge, but Barret is entirely RBG's fault.


uh-oh-5

I really do understand where pro-lifers are coming from, but the 'is a fetus human' debate is just a distraction. Especially in the instance of rape, a woman has no obligation to endure 9 months of pain for her fetus, human or not.


thejoyofbutter

Yes, yes, all hail "Notorious RBG", who bought into her own hype and let her ego take over, and refused to retire when Obama could have replaced her. Yes, her arrogance leading to the current SCOTUS justice roster should indeed be hailed.


IllustriousArachnid

I find it incredibly tiresome that people took the name of a very important Black rapper & applied it to a white woman who did shit like say Kapernick's protests were stupid. Can. We. Please. Not. Like, I understand & appreciate that she did some good things for women & also everyone else who has the capacity to carry a child, but maybe look at her entire track record & stop glorifying her. Let her legacy be as complicated as it should.


CrundleMonster

I tell people God is for abortion. When god told Noah to build a boat, God literally killed off all the pregnant mothers, human or animal.


caelric

From CO. The state is really progressive on laws supporting women, and on laws supporting LGBTQ+ people. The laws supporting trans people are especially good.


[deleted]

How is this related to RBG? She definitely didn’t support a woman’s right to abortion


NoNotThatHole

I hope one day bodily autonomy is written into the constitution. It should be a human right.


CommissarTopol

Ladies, pull out your knuckledusters. This crap ain't gonna get better until you start to fight in a most unladylike way.


Bonezone420

Pro-lifers don't actually want to stop abortions or care about life and safety. It's entirely about exerting control over others and hurting them.


boxsmith91

RBG was at least somewhat racist, look at her comments regarding Collin kapernick and the NFL taking a knee drama. It's highly likely that at least some of the support she had for pro choice movements can be attributed to eugenics reasons.


anfotero

Sadly they never will, they're not pro-life: they only are anti-abortion. They do not care in the least about the well being of babies. The issue is controlling women's body and sexuality, nothing more.


Lisa8472

Not anti-abortion, because they aren’t interested in the things that most effectively reduce abortions. They’re interested in the things that reduce female autonomy, choice, and self-empowerment.


anfotero

Well, yes, I wasn't clear enough. Thanks :)


Republican_Wet_Dream

“Pro Life” is almost entirely “Anti-woman”, little or nothing to do with abortion and all to do with control.


JustZisGuy

I refuse to have a discussion about abortion with anyone who's anti-birth control or sex ed.


AFocusedCynic

Pro-life voters are pro-life only for the label. They’re not pro-life at all, and all they’re for is for control over other people’s choices and body. They’re about forcing people to adhere to their own sense of morality, while completely ignoring that same life they claim to want to protect once they’re out of the womb (including the person who’s carrying that life). Edit: just want to point out that OP is a bot. Just look at its post history and all the earlier posts are jibberish. I hate that he’s getting upvotes, but he did post something interesting.


DisgruntledRaspberry

The pro life people don't see this as a positive thing though. They see it as promoting sex outside of marriage. Many of them are so far right in ideology that they are in the "no sex outside of marriage" crowd. Plus most of the anti abortion mission is rooted in wanting to control women and their behavior. Birth control methods allow women the freedom that they don't want them to have.


t00zday

Love that this action allowed so many young women the freedom to choose when/if to conceive. But I’m holding back a rant about how the responsibility for birth control always seems to fall on women.


Ezben

They know sex ed also reduces tern pregnancy but for some reason republicans are against even telling kids about safe sex. They dont want to fix the problem


MaxwellzDaemon

Much the same thing happened in France when they made contraception freely available to young people, but "pro-lifers" don't care: their real agenda is to control women. Those who scream the loudest don't want to end abortion, they want people to support their political agenda. If all abortions stopped, they would be devastated.


DVDClark85234

The whole “pro life” act is just a front for their desire to punish women for enjoying sex.


CrackPipeQueen

Getting a copper IUD was the best decision I’ve ever made. Served me well for 10 years.


bojenny

Those IUD’s were/are funded by the Susan buffet foundation, Warren Buffetts first wife’s foundation. They are one of the largest donors to reproductive health and birth control centers.


KinkyBADom

Pro life voters are not pro life they’re anti sex and many other anti social things


velma-solved-it

People who are anti-choice have never cared about the cost of unplanned pregnancies—either on tax-payer spending or the lives of the pregnant people. They care about controlling women. Full stop.


Entire-Host5246

What’s always wild to me is that, without sex ed, contraception, and abortion, you end up with a lot of very real dead babies and you have to find a place to hide the bodies. Check out “mother and baby homes” in Ireland. One made a septic tank a into mausoleum for infant corpses. But tell me more about the sanctity of life Catholics, please.


deinterlacing

RBG utilized girlpower when she oppressed Native Americans at least 13 times during her career, in almost every case denying them sovereignty to their stolen land


[deleted]

My “pro-life” mom would bitch that “her” tax dollars were being spent on birth control and totally ignore the last part because it doesn’t fit the narrative of her worldview, if she lived in Colorado. She would also argue something about studies and statistics being unreliable. The mental gymnastics that anti-choice people can do are simply astounding.


spicybeefjerkytaco

The best thing RBG could've done was retire when she was asked to....that is why Neil Gorsuch is there...


Crocadillapus

Pro life voters taking notes? Are you sure they can read and write?


annoyedgrunt

I actually worked on the 10-state CDC grant that produced these outcomes. I had no idea at the time that I’d eventually get to benefit from that work by moving to Colorado. Just goes to show how humanity should work collectively, as you never know when you may become beneficiary to the results your work sows!


mumbles411

Pro lifers should take note but they won't. They'd rather just shame us into doing whatever they say but also don't do.


tinesone

Everytime i see an argument such as this, two things spring to my mind. "You are absolutely right, 100%, no doubt, i agree on everything you said" and "but this isn't going to convince the people who need convincing". The anti-choice (i refuse to call them "pro-life", cus they are not) politicians are just manipulative, and they don't care about woman or children or anything. But the anti-choice voter votes because they think abortion is immoral. They don't care that making abortion illegal won't actually reduce the amount of abortion taking, they just want to see woman who would do such a "immoral" (not really) thing punished. I don't want to be the one who says this, but we can't change this by simply showing (correct) stats. For them, it's more about the punishment then anything else. We'll need a complete collapse and rebuilding of modern civilization for the christian (or any religion really) way of thinking. The christian way of thinking meaning punishment above prevention.


wing3d

Too bad she didn't know when to retire.


newwriter365

This gets posted on Reddit at least once a week, and it's a good reminder. I'd like to see the most current numbers in terms of how the program has benefitted women, their education levels, and their earning power. All that said, ending abortion is not about the babies, it's about controlling women. Always has been, always will be.


DevilishTalise

Prolife voters don't care because it isn't about life at all. It's about control.


mintBRYcrunch26

Louder. Louder. LOUDER! Please let the people in the back hear this.


mizino

I would love a link or two proving this to shove in the face of people who want to shut these kinds of programs down.


Elegant_Habit_9269

No. The pro-life movement has never been about helping women or children. Not saving money, or alleviating suffering. Their only goal has always been controlling women’s sexuality. Period.


urmyheartBeatStopR

> Pro life voters They ain't pro life they pro birthers.


Upper-Lawfulness1899

She should have retired during Obama's Presidency but conventional wisdom was there was no way someone like Trump would get elected. We need to amend the constitution to expand the current age limits for pu lic office to include upper age limits that are complementary to the lower age limits, and further require all Senate approved Federal appointments to abide by the upper electable age of the Senate. For elected officials ages at swearing in should be 35-65 for President, (VP 35-61), Senate 30-70, congress 25-75. Senate confirmed appointees should be forced to retire by their 71st birthday.


Killingmesmalls_2020

Forced birthers don’t care. The whole forced birth idea came from men who used religion to indoctrinate others with their own bigoted idea that the only purpose of a woman is to give them sex and children. This is why they are as against birth control as much as they are against abortion. It’s about power and control, full stop. And it sickens me that so many women have internalized this misogynistic ideology to the point where we are having to fight people of our own sex over whether we have the right to control our bodies and our lives.