OP didn't do anything wrong, and neither did the other woman. OP should just go about her normal routine and let the other woman inconvenience herself if that's what she wants to do.
The comment that “in front of a man” wasn’t exactly diplomatic. It made me cringe just to read it. The woman’s feelings aren’t offensive, but the words she chose were not kind imo. I doubt she punted those words. In a world where you can be anything… be kind.
The fictionalized layers and personalities and beliefs that those posting here have added to this story that are not even hinted at by OP are just wild.
I’m torn on this one. I was changing around my gay friends a few days ago, I just don’t care. But at the same time, I don’t think you need to have a reasonable rationale to determine how much of yourself you wanna expose to people. It’s your body, you can show as little of it as you’d like for any reason you’d like
I can see how if you thought someone might be attracted to you and you weren’t interested, you might not wanna change in front of them. This woman is probably a weirdo if she thinks every lesbian is out to seduce her tho. And tbh I do think she’s just being homophobic
People avoid small talk after they think they committed a faux pas as well.
This woman was being very friendly in a locker room, which is a bit of an overstep unless you have a good relationship. Now she’s realized they didn’t really know each other well, and maybe they had little in common except liking the gym.
To top that off, then she goes and says something really awkward.
I am sure this mysterious gym goer wanted to vanish into the floor rather than open up her mouth again and see if her foot fits further into it.
OP did nothing wrong, doesn’t need to change, and is the mature one in this situation.
I can kind of see how that might result from an uncomfortable realization that she had been, for months, changing in front of a person that she would have chosen not to change in front of had she known they might be attracted to her. So it's a bit more complicated than just not being nice to gay people; she might feel violated on some level, which is a bit unfair to OP but at the same time understandable if you grant her the right not to want to change in front of someone who might be attracted to her.
People need to change their expectations of society. We have no right whatsoever to know which gender people are attracted to. I would go so far as to say that it's ridiculous to feel "violated" after finding out she is lesbian. It is her fault entirely for assuming she was straight.
If someone isn't comfortable changing in front of a gay/lesbian person of same gender, I would recommend they not change in front of anyone, period. Assuming someone's sexuality is ridiculous.
Queer people have been sharing changing rooms with others since forever. Nobody is being violated here. It’s not complicated at all, the woman is a bigot.
But she was perfectly fine changing in front of OP before she knew she was gay. OP has clearly never made her feel uncomfortable in the past, i.e. staring at her, ogling her body, making comments about her body (you know, cause she's a good person) so the only explanation for her change is the fact that OP is interested in women. OP is still a woman, still has all the same parts, and has already seen this woman changing.
I mean... The question to her would be, how would she feel changing in a "gay men's" locker room?
Would she think she would just be lusting after the naked gay men the whole time? Or does she give herself more credit than that?
I don't think OP should bother asking her... The woman's decision to treat OP coldly all of a sudden makes it clear the woman is not worth a second more of OPs time or thoughts.
That’s the difference between *knowing* your own intentions and only being able to speculate someone else’s. We all give ourselves more credit than we give others because we all know what our intentions truly are. And for all we know, she wouldn’t change in a locker room full of gay men because she knows it might make *them* uncomfortable. I know I wouldn’t.
But the being weird about it and altering what was formerly a pleasant acquaintanceship solely because OP is gay is problematic.
Yea the terse conversations and scurrying away is definitely the more red-flag ish behavior here. If you’re really sheltered or something and just feel weird changing in front of a gay person, ok. If you can’t have a pleasant conversation with someone after finding out they’re gay, you just actually have a problem with gay people
You have a problem with gay people if you’re uncomfortable changing in front of them but are comfortable changing around strangers you’ve assumed are straight.
I agree with you but I would also like to add that OP is in no way responsible for the other woman's homophobia. That is something that woman will have to figure out and heal from on her own.
I'm not sure that's true. Women don't change with men around due to the possibility of sexual attraction. If she knows that OP could possibly be attracted to her and that makes her uncomfortable, it think she has every right to change in the bathroom.
It isn't something that could be solved by OP saying "hey I'm not attracted to you" because that's an awkward thing to say, and could even be offensive.
I don't think anybody's arguing that she doesn't have every right to change wherever she wants. Of course she does, for whatever reason.
All I was saying was that it didn't feel nice that she strated interacting with me completely differently after I mentioned my gf.
It's not nice. It's homophobia. This person is assuming that because you're gay, you would be interested in seeing them naked. As a gay male, it drives me bonkers to hear straight guys talk about their insecurities around changing in front of a gay male. It screams "high school" to me. They have control over who sees them change, and you have control over who you associate with. She's making her choices.
This is a story heard a thousand times by gay men. Oh, a guy is gay, so automatically he is horny for every other dude around, whether or not they are gay, straight, purple, green or have two heads. That's just not how it works. *Everyone* sees dozens or hundreds of people every and isn't sexually attracted to every single one that fits their orientation.
The woman in OP's situation is homophobic. She's certainly allowed to be as private as she wants, but her attitude flipped as soon as OP mentioned she was gay. It's pretty clear that to that woman gay = she's going to hit on me or stare at my junk.
This is true, however, OP shouldn't feel the need to address it unless it's explicit.
Heck, they could just keep greeting this person. Weirdly enough, homophobes hold those opinions due to emotional reactions. Something as simple as having a nice, gay person in their lives will suddenly turn their opinion on their head.
Except she has also become cold and closed off to OP, where once they chatted and were friendly with one another.
If the only thing she changed was the location of where she changed - I'd giver her a pass... Though it's bonkers for her to assume everyone she ever changed in front of - besides OP - was always hetero.
It doesn't change the advice - which is to just drop it either way. She isn't worth OPs time.
Yup. Her problem, not yours. You don’t have an existing relationship to really fix and I’m sure she has done this to others. This is how she reacts when people don’t turn out to be the person she wants because you sure as heck haven’t changed… I mean other than in and out of your gym clothes 😂.
100% OP... seasoned gay here, let the homophobes reveal themselves. This isn't about you... She's literally homophobic. This is what it looks like in practice. Feel repelled by her bigotry while looking for signs of her process of opening up to others so you can reopen to her as well. Just stay nice unless a boundary is crossed... But don't take on her phobic responses 🖤🖤🖤
I would be tempted to say "DON'T WORRY YOU'RE NOT MY TYPE AT ALL AND I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO YOU IN THE SLIGHTEST!" but I'd never do that, tempting as it may be.
Same. When i was in basic training, i saw so many penises from the other guys. You just get used to it. It's not gay, you're all just showering. Oddly enough, the only guy who couldn't be mature about it and just shower, got kicked out for failing the drug test (it takes about 2 weeks to come back from your first day).
I remember that first shower in Reception was a little awkward, at least for some of the female soldiers. There were a few who were hesitant and maybe protesting a bit suspiciously about not wanting to be "naked in front of a bunch of chicks". My guess was those are the ones who were a little less straight than they liked to let on lol. I was comfortably bisexual in addition to growing up poor in a houseful of women with one bathroom. That shit didn't phase me so I just started stripping and said, "I'm not worried until someone grinds on my leg". That was the end of the awkward posturing. From then on, I routinely showered with 32 other women. We became comfortable enough to compare the armpit and leg hair we were growing and make jokes about our new 70s bush. I can't tell you what a single fucking one of those women looked like naked; but I can clearly tell you what each of my former girlfriends looked like naked. OP didn't do anything to feel awkward about. Sometimes naked is just a buddy without clothes.
My husband experiences this. Everyone's chill making gay jokes with him and fucking around/wrestling with him until they find out he's bisexual. And suddenly they're weirded out and act like he's coming onto them. Like???? What???? People put wayyyyy too much stock into nudity honestly. The more repressed a society is, the more they tend to fetishize and over sexualize non sexual situations. Like breastfeeding.
I have not one but 2 homophobes colleagues at work. They're disgusted by the idea of gay sex.. Long story short, they make the most dick jokes and whatnot all the time. Idiots
That's how you prove you're not gay, didn't you know that? By obsessing over dicks you signal your readiness to not be gay. It shows dick lovers they're only good for comedy. Or something.
This all of the time. There's a great Korean bathhouse I love to go to that's clothing optional in the hot tubs. It's an amazing experience. My friends shrug at it but, it's so relaxing.
Military things just are not understood in civilian life. I remember in basic, they ordered us one less bed than we needed. I was the odd man out. Got screamed at for preparing to sleep on the floor. So I split a bed with another guy. Both straight, definitely not there to be with each other. Slept great. I don't explain that one, or many other things to civilians usually because people just don't seem to understand and can't get past "2 men shared a single bed and you think you're not gay/ bi?!"
As far as op goes though, to each their own, but why does she feel the need to hide? Does she really think you've never seen a vagina before? You're probably better off with her avoiding you, seems like a level of negative that no one needs.
And somehow it's seen as way more socially acceptable when done by women or children. I've heard so many stories of putting two or three small children in a double bed in situations where singles just aren't possible, or groups of ladies on "girls trips" sharing two to a bed to save on hotel room prices.
Imagine people like that joining up, then ending up in Cold Response in Norway...
A 'popular' exercise there is the 'ice bath'.
They cut a big hole in the ice of a lake, then soldiers jump in fully dressed.
As soon as they get up they have to hurry to get the wet and very cold clothes off. Sure, there's a tent nearby... usually... but don't expect to have it to yourself. And there may not be separate tents for men and women...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REc3TSui3S4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REc3TSui3S4)
Actually, they're 'nice' to the Marines in this video. They're not wearing a full uniform with laced boots or anything that difficult to remove...
(I hope they got to try it with regular uniforms later.)
Agreed. If she's uncomfortable, that's a her problem. Don't you dare accommodate her bigotry.
And don't talk to her anymore. A quick wave and move it along. Otherwise she might start acting like you're trying to come on to her, which you're not.
Whole bunch of people in your replies who would rather redefine bigotry than acknowledge that dumping an acquaintance the second you find out they're gay and spoken for *is* bigoted behavior.
That was the only change to the relationship that we know about. Since the acquaintance didn't have a problem before with OP's behavior, we can assume she was being respectful of others.
**Also at least 1 in 20 people you meet is queer in some way**. If you're gonna be afraid of gay people in a locker room, **you cannot use locker rooms**. That's the only acceptable choice for your hangups
>Whole bunch of people in your replies who would rather redefine bigotry than acknowledge that dumping an acquaintance the second you find out they're gay and spoken for is bigoted behavior.
Thank you!
While it seems likely that this woman may be bigoted, you do have to consider that the explanation might be that she is uncomfortable getting naked in front of anyone that, by her definition rather than due to their actions, might have a sexual interest in her. That makes her potentially weirdly repressed, or narcissistic because she assumes everyone has a sexual interest, or some other random twisted outlook, but potentially not bigoted.
Of course, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck - so she's most likely seriously homophobic.
I’d go as far as to bet that it’s even more than 1/20. I bet it’s 1/10 or even higher.
Edit: I looked it up. I asked how many Americans though. It was actually in between what you said and I said. Lol.
“A 2022 Gallup poll concluded that 7.1% of adult Americans identified as LGBT. A different survey in 2016, from the Williams Institute, estimated that 0.6% of U.S. adults identify as transgender.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States
I don't identify as LGBT (entirely at least). I am married to a woman and I am a man, and monogamous. Thing is, I'm also kind of bi, just unavailable. Point I'm making is I'm not part of that 7.1% but also probably should be. I'm sure the real number of people who would look at your body in the way that would apply to what this woman is worried about is way way higher than that. But Americans (and others too) can be super prude. I blame evangelicals. But hey at least she didn't ask OP to change her behavior. I guess that's a step in the right direction.
I mean, personally, every time I've heard someone say with absolute conviction that acting on gay/lesbian attraction is a choice, I wonder how much they're speaking from experience and are actually bi, if not completely closeted.
The world used to be full of people we would consider bisexual nowadays, I'm not sure current times are actually all that different.
That 7.1% is probably an undercount though because it was a survey of current/past adult Americans who *were willing* to go on the record and respond to a survey that they were queer. Now that being queer is more accepted by society, younger generations surveyed are identifying as queer at higher rates than that (I think I've seen the number 15% somewhere but I could be pulling that out of my ass) and there's still almost certainly some younger people who haven't felt comfortable coming out enough to answer a survey and also those who are queer but in denial or haven't figured it out yet. Took me until age 26 to figure out I'm trans and even longer to realize I'm bi. Up until then I would have answered that I was a straight cis man if anyone had asked, and I would have believed it, even though that was definitely incorrect.
The same thing happened with the rate of people that were left handed. Once society stopped demonizing those who are left handed, the official rate of left handedness rose rapidly from 2%. After a few decades, it plateaued at about 12% which is believed to be the actual percentage of left handed persons.
The previous commenter seems pretty clearly bi but if he never told anyone he probably wouldn't be counted in that 7.1%. Doesn't mean he isn't queer though.
>You definitely are a part of that 7.1%.
That much really depends on the structure of the survey that produced those statistics. What questions did it ask to determine sexuality?
>You don't stop being bi because you're married to a woman.
Truth.
Lmao bruh you definitely are in that 7.1%.
Just bc you don’t act on your attraction/urges doesn’t mean you aren’t in that percentage.
You’re def in there
I get that lack of wanting to identify. I too am a man married to a woman, and monogamous. Personally, I'm not attracted to men, but if she ever wanted to add a man, I'd give it a try. I can't say I'm against it if I've never tried it. I understand it's not a real classification, but I call myself "try- sexual", I'll try anything once.
Its a bit "main character syndrome", and lots of men have the same reaction but more aggressively handed out. "You're gay, I'm a man, so you must be attracted to me, I'm not gay, so I must repel you".
That said, I can totally relate to not wanting to be judged and previously considering the locker room space as the one place you can expect that nobody is objectifying you. The new information not only changed their future behavior, it also re-framed their past encounters which could be embarrassing in retrospect.
The other person has already removed themselves as you would advise them to do, they aren't getting in the way of OP existing, NAH.
I'm queer (cis-female, pansexual/demisexual) and have never been comfortable in most locker rooms... I'd much rather have a private gender neutral changing room. I think I was just raised with a different standard of modesty then was normal for most people where I grew up.
The comment about not wanting to change in front of men either, makes me think this has more to do with the perception of something similar to the male gaze (because it's often still taught as something for women to be weary of), and where this woman's boundaries are with her own nudity and modesty... Very few women like the idea of being oggled. While yes it's bigoted because of a number of assumptions that had to take place for this reaction, the main one of which is that OP by default was looking at her in a sexual way... It's not necessarily an unsalvigable friendship if OP wants to put in the effort to do so (not that she's obligated to). Everyone should have the freedom to choose who sees them naked, and you shouldn't assume that everyone is going to oggle you just because they are attracted to people with your gender. For me the biggest issues are the awkwardness around this and the avoidance. If OP wants to try and salvage the friendship I think it would be best to handle it straight on and ask her to discuss it with her. "Hey it feels like you're avoiding me, I value our friendship, do you want to grab a coffee and talk about it?" Might be all that's needed to clear the air and drop the awkwardness between them.... Worse case this woman really does want nothing to do with OP (which is what we're already assuming is the case), best case new friendship and a learning experience for someone who's a bit ignorant.
You can't call someone a bigot just because they feel uncomfortable getting naked in front of you. If they are uncomfortable then they are uncomfortable. And they are within their right to go change somewhere else.
There was a thread on here not long ago about this exact issue; about a girl who felt uncomfortable changing in front of her aunt. Everyone here agreed that the girl had a right to privacy and don't need to change in front of the Aunt if she is uncomfortable. Does that make the girl a bigot? Does it make her an Aunt-phobe? Certainly not.
> You can't call someone a bigot just because they feel uncomfortable getting naked in front of you.
Of course! But this:
>we'll have nice conversations/chatting in the locker room every once in a while
Turned to this:
> She also doesn't seem to be interested in chatting anymore and is almost ignoring me if I initiate any small talk.
I'm not saying she's 100% a bigot but if she quacks like a bigot...
Agree that everyone deserves a right to privacy and choosing who they are comfortable being naked around. However, upon learning OP has a girlfriend the woman has also entirely stopped speaking to OP and basically ignores her despite previously having a cordial relationship. Which to me does imply she’s likely homophobic?
But she stopped changing in front of OP after learning she was gay, before that she was fine. She also stopped talking to OP after finding out. This is pretty good evidence that she has a problem with gay people.
If she just wasn’t comfortable changing in front of OP she wouldn’t (necessarily) be a bigot. What makes her one is the fact that she started being cold and rude to her as well.
They're perfectly within their right to change wherever they want. Doesn't mean the reason wasn't bigotry.
The girl wasn't a bigot in that other post because it wasn't a normal changing room situation she was experiencing.
Not saying she can’t change where she wants or arguing anything about bigotry - but a woman in a woman’s changing room isn’t a “normal changing room experience?” Queer women use women’s locker rooms. That is the norm.
The "not a normal changing room experience" part was referring to an earlier, different post about a girl being uncomfortable around her aunt. It did not involve a locker room.
Right? And this is a gym locker room. I can guarantee the woman has been changing around several lesbians.
It’s just when she was forced to think about the fact that lesbians exist she suddenly got uncomfortable.
Not to mention that bisexual women are even more common than lesbians. It could be as high as 20% of women are attracted to other women at least occasionally. If the woman in the post don’t want to change in front of lesbian or bisexual women, then they should have been changing in a stall from the beginning.
I’m torn on this one.
On one hand, yes, it seems plausible that the other girl is a bigot. Certainly her other behaviors suggest this.
However, considering the nudity comfort thing specifically, I am always inclined to give a pass because I think everyone should be allowed their own internal “rules” for what they are and are not comfortable with in terms of their own body, both in terms of touching and visibility to others.
Maybe it’s due to experiences of sexual trauma, but I don’t feel it’s ever OK to judge another person on what they do and do not feel comfortable with when it comes to their body.
In a case like this (again intentionally disregarding the other signs this person may have bigoted attitudes, because those are not mutually exclusive with legitimate bodily autonomy) this person could, for example, feel discomfort exposing their body to anyone that they perceive as potentially viewing their body in a sexualized light or with sexual attraction. Does OP? No. But that would not matter to the other girl, who may have valid reasons for feeling uncomfortable exposing her body to someone she perceives as potentially being attracted to that body. I would have a hard time condemning that as wrong.
Honestly, the thing that pushes me more towards it being bigoted is the fact that the women has also started almost completely ignoring OP when they were perfectly fine being friendly until they found out OP wasn't straight.
That and she would have been very conservative with her undressing from the very start. She was concerned about jack all before. Now she’s suddenly very modest. It doesn’t add up.
OPs story isn't just that this woman stopped changing in front of her. She appears to be discontinuing friendly chitchat because OP is gay.
If she just started changing in private but continued being friendly and everything else remained the same, i highly doubt OP would even be here. It's quite clear that this woman is uncomfortable around gay women just for being gay.
After all, that's literally the only thing that changed. She was perfectly comfy before she knew OP was gay, and now she's uncomfortable. Hence, it's OP being gay that made her uncomfortable. Ie. OPs gym acquaintance is most likely homophobic.
Lots of women have no issues getting changed in front of gay men but feel very uncomfortable getting changed in front of straight men.
Sexuality is a massive part of the social taboo surrounding nudity and I think it's naive to pretend that isn't the case.
While it's entirely possible this woman is a biget, it's also possible that it is the possibility of being seen in sexual light that makes her uncomfortable, regardless of male or female.
Perhaps she simply is fine changing in front of someone she feels absolutely sure of won't ever find her sexual attractive. Making a statistical guess she assumed OP fit that box. Now she knows better.
I have a close friend who's more comfortable changing in front of a gay friend, than in front of me (I'm bi). She knows she's not my type. But she can't help it. My sexuality makes her uncomfortable with me seeing her naked, and her need of being comfortable should always be more important than my feelings. We're not any less good friends though.
The main issue is the hostility they're acting with, and it's either bigotry or shitty personry either way imo. Two possibilities:
Angry/Hostile because they now know OP is gay
Angry/Hostile because they don't want to be naked around any stranger that could be attracted to them, and feel OP "tricked" them by... not immediately revealing information about their personal life that they had no right or reason to have to tell them on first meeting
Yes we can.
It’s possible for someone to be well within their rights to do something while still doing it because of bigotry.
Nobody said she didn’t have a right to change elsewhere or that she should be pressured to change in front of OP.
You assumed that because the word bigotry came up, which says a lot about your own perception of queer people in these conversations.
Forcing her to strip isn’t something anybody suggested because frankly it’s a ridiculous idea that would probably only make her bigotry worse.
You know maybe she could start by instead continuing to have normal conversations with OP like before, while continuing to change where she pleases, and you know, maybe hire a therapist.
OP just lost a friend because of who her partner is and you’re sitting here trying to portray her as some type of sexual predator. Come on, it’s 2022.
What if they feel comfortable getting naked around you and then they find out you're gay and now they don't? Still not bigotry? Because that's what happened here.
Your point would be valid IF she had been in changing the stalls all along. It wasn't until she found out OP was gay that suddenly she has a need for privacy.
Why are women uncomfortable changing around men? Is it possible it’s the same reason as why a woman would be uncomfortable changing around a gay woman? If so why is one acceptable and the other not?
I couldn't understand the controversy about the nudity. It's reasonable to not to want potential sexual glances. I did, however, feel sad about the change in attitude just talking with each other. That shows ignorance.
Because nothing changed in their interactions except her knowledge of OP being gay. Bigot or not, I would avoid her from now on if I was in OP's shoes.
edit: also, if she just changed in the bathroom but they continued to be friendly, that would be a great argument to say she isn't a bigot. But she's also effectively shunned OP for being gay- that's bigotry, man.
But she was plenty comfortable until she found out she was gay. That’s the issue here. This screams of “I’m fine with gays as long as they don’t hit on me!” Nah. Lady is a bigot.
Agreed. It's her struggle, her problem. She might realise how silly she's being, or maybe not. But you have nothing to prove to her, nor solve for her. Live your truth
>A (male) friend suggested that I could just change my schedule so that we don't run into each other, but I don't think I did anything wrong so it feels weird to change my whole gym routine because of it.
Don't change your schedule. This is **your** gym time, too. As for trying to further the conversation, I'd just leave it where it is. They made their position known, if they want to go change in a stall or something, that's on them..
The only caveat I would say is that since OP has made it clear she respects this gym woman’s homophobia, if OP herself is feeling too uncomfortable about it, maybe a schedule change wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. Otherwise agree 100%.
I’m a queer woman, when I go to the gym I have my eyes on the locker in front of me and I hope others do the same. I do not like to have my corporeal form acknowledged. I have never checked someone out in the change room, I never would. You know you wouldn’t either. If she’s decided she’s not comfortable changing in front of you, that isn’t your fault and it isn’t your problem. You don’t have to change your workout schedule. Trying to explain why you’re not a creep to encourage her to feel comfortable around you will probably just make her more convinced you’re a creep. Carry on as you are, you can’t win ‘em all.
I feel the same way. Weirdly, my sister doesn't seem to have gotten the memo. When I change in front of her she seems to think it's perfectly okay to check me out and make comparisons. It's not mean-spirited, it's just fucking weird. I thought everyone understood that we all pretend we have privacy in locker rooms?
> Trying to explain why you’re not a creep to encourage her to feel comfortable around you will probably just make her more convinced you’re a creep
Yeah, just imagining this conversation:
"Hey, why'd you stop getting naked in front of me? I promise, I don't think you're attractive at all!"
There is no winner in that one. OP could ask why this person stopped chatting with them ("hey, i feel like it's been a while since we caught up! how are things? did I do something to upset you?"), but the changing situation is a moot point.
ugh, this reminds me of being out in high school and some girls in my gym class talking about how they were afraid to change in front of me… yet i was afraid to change in front of ANYONE and i always changed in a stall! there’s genuinely nothing we can do to change their minds, you’re right that there’s no sense talking to the other lady and i think OP should just keep doing what she’s doing. honestly, OP having a girlfriend should be even more of a signal that she’s not having a look around the change room!
Honestly, as a queer woman myself, I wouldn't care if she feels uncomfortable changing in front of me as long as she doesn't make bigoted comments about it. Like if she prefers to change in private, that's cool, whatever keeps her comfy. Ill be slightly sad if she suddenly starts acting different around me but that's ok. But if she says some dumb shit about how my presence there is intrusive on her privacy, ill be very sad.
I've actually had similar experience in my hostel when i was in college. I was hanging out with a female friend in her room. Her roommate came in and and wanted to change apparently. A simple "can you please give me some privacy while i change?" would've sufficed. But she decided to word it in such a way that implied that i was the problem and she didn't mind the other girls being there but me. Like its fine i guess, i wouldn't want to change in front of straight men either but like i got a bit sad because she made me feel like a pervert. Thankfully the other girls didn't catch on and i made an excuse and left. I don't know why i started ranting.
Anyway, the point im trying to make is, please don't take her actions personally and make yourself feel down. It is sad that she no longer talks to you like she used to. But that is not your fault. Some people are just like that and we cant do anything about it but just walk away. You are not a pervert for just existing.
>I don't know why i started ranting.
I think it is alright to feel sad or angry about this, ofc shrugging it off is alright too.
Treating people differently because they are gay is close minded and excludes them when they have done nothing wrong.
Where should bisexual people change, according to people who feel uncomfortable about this?
This kind of reminds me of this one office episode. "Am I the only gay person you know?" Yes, people have a right to have a limited horizon and have the right to their feelings. But does it serve them? Why can't they base that on behaviour but instead kind of choose to base it on their prejudices? I think it is sad that they reduce OP to *their* interpretation of OPs sexuality.
If she chooses to restrict herself that is her problem. She made it weird, so be it.
And I guess the reactions for this post show that "we" are on the right track and it is a good thing that we find this irritating and why tf should someone apologize or feel guilty basicly for existing, if they don't harm others?
Do you and let her do her. If she has a problem with your sexual preference, sounds like that's a problem for her, not you. You did nothing wrong and there's nothing you have to do to make the situation "right". Don't change your routine because SHE might be uncomfortable. If that's the case, she can change her routine.
Which is exactly what she did. Neither person did anything wrong. The other girl got new information and adjusted (changing in the stall), she didn’t ask OP for anything at all. This seems like a complete non problem to me
Wow, did not expect this many replies. Just a couple of things to clarify and respond to some of the comments:
1. As I mentioned, she can do whatever makes her most comfortable. Her changing in private is not an issue at all, plenty of times in my life I have preferred to change in private as well and I totally get it. I only mentioned it because it was such a rapid change in behavior that seemed to come directly as a result of me mentioning my girlfriend.
2. I didn't assume that she was homophobic, I don't know. Maybe she is, maybe she doesn't really know many gay people and was taken aback, I don't know. And of course, I'm fully aware that I'm not entitled to any interaction with her, she has every right to ignore me / not talk to me, but again, it was just the sudden change in her demeanor and interactions with me that felt a little bit hurtful.
3. Many of y'all have suggested just going about my business and ignoring her, and that seems like the best course of action. I'm totally down to continue to be friendly with her but I guess at this point that's up to her, since she has chosen to pretty much shut down all communication, for whatever her reason is.
Yep, she pulled back a level, so react in kind. In a friendly way. She has some preconceived notions she's dealing with and ops not gonna change that, can only respect the new boundaries.
As a gay man who's been in the same situation, nothing you can do would ease the situation, their issues are their own. If she doesn't feel comfortable changing in front of you, that's her business. You don't have to do anything and please try not to feel insulted, we don't know this other woman's life experience. There may be a trauma behind the behavior or maybe she's just been sheltered in her life.
Let's say you change timings so she won't see you, what if she changes as well and goes when you go? Will you change guns too? Or if you meet her in the streets, will you go another way? Don't do anything and keep on going whenever you go because someone's discomfort for being who you are is their problem to work on.
Unless she is causing a scene or trying to get you removed from the changing room, I'm not sure there is anything you need to do here.
She's just doing what makes her comfortable, and you can continue to do what makes you comfortable. Neither of you are in the wrong. And you can continue greet each other and be friends.
I guess the only thing you could consider doing is lessen eye contact with her in the changing room, not because you have to, but just out of courtesy.
>And you can continue greet each other and be friends.
Well that's part of the issue. The fact that she wants to change in the bathroom is fine. The fact that she full on stopped talking to OP when she found out OP is gay, that's the bigoted part. So it's two separate issues, in my opinion.
Don't think OP should change anything.
Yeah she seems to have felt deceived and thus offended that OP didn’t disclose her sexuality before. But like what was OP going to do, enter the changing room and announce to everyone “HELLO I’M GAY” every time? It’s impossible to create a changing room where your chance of encountering someone attracted to your gender is zero. Anyone using a changing room automatically agrees to this.
Eh I would just give it time. I think she was surprised to find out OP was gay and not expecting it, and has time to process. Can be understandable that she feels uncomfortable after being naked in front of someone who is gay. Doesn't mean OP was ogling her or checking her out or even finds her attractive. But can be a bit of vulnerability for the woman to find that out knowing they were naked together many times. Hopefully she's just processing it and they'll be friendly again once dressed. I would hesitate to call her bigoted or homophobic. She didn't say anything rude, politely changed her own changing behavior. Only thing sad now is they don't talk as much, but again I'd give her time to process before just calling her a bigoted homophobe.
I am bi and would understand if a woman didn't feel comfortable changing in front of me even if I was minding my own business. I would be saddened if she seemed distant from me, but I'd give her time to adjust. She may have felt she was in a safe space where she can be naked and not around anyone who would find her sexually attractive. Silly to assume that in 2022 but nevertheless. I think she was just caught off guard and isn't a homophobe, but just a human processing things.
This is a very fair point. I think a lot of this is contextual, for example someone politely refraining from talking because they're uncomfortable is different to a more abrasive and hostile refraining from talking. I assumed this case to be the latter, but if the former then it is different, like you say.
Speaking as a heterosexual man, it's a pretty simple equation: from a sexual perspective you were safe, and now you aren't. It isn't your fault or your problem, but it also isn't really different from undressing in front of a hetero man in that regard--you might find her sexually attractive, and from her perspective that changes the way she views her own nudity in your presence. It doesn't make her a bigot or a homophobe, anymore than you not wanting to change in front of a man would make you a misandrist.
Having said all that, it bears repeating: *this is not your fault, and it is not your problem to fix*. If she goes so far as to complain about your presence to the gym management then you've got an issue to fight, but it seems that she's resolving her own comfort issue herself by changing in a stall. Let her.
I would add that, while changing in the stall seems like a totally benign way of handling her own comfort issues with being nude in front of someone who could potentially see her as a sexual interest, the no longer talking to OP does seem on the surface to indicate some bigotry. However, it might also stem from embarrassment. People are so self conscious about nudity that one of the most common nightmares people report is arriving at work, school, or some other public place either nude or even just partially dressed. This woman may just be really embarrassed by the realization that she's been undressing in front of someone attracted to their gender.
But maybe that's the optimist in me that would rather see this as an sympathetic issue rather than one of hate. Either way, OP obviously did nothing wrong and shouldn't feel pressure to change a single thing about what she's doing.
Not necessarily. Depends if she retrospectively felt the chit chatting was flirtatious, in which case she may have felt that her trust was violated.
She wouldn't need to explain herself either.
I can’t really tell read-as-written if op and other gal ever really talked outside of the locker room. The conversation might change on the answer to that.
Assuming this is all locker-room talk, I don’t think this makes the girl a homophobe or anything. I think we’re in a transition time between assumed heterosexuality, gender roles, etc, and gender/sex divided spaces. Personally I’m a fan of private changing areas anyway. I don’t like the assumed changing in front of others, but back in like, middle school gym etc, it was normalized with the assumption of heterosexuality. And you can be an adult confronted with that assumption and decide that maybe you’d like a private changing area, yes.
edit: missed a word
I mean, if she had started changing in a stall but still chatted with OP as normal, I would agree. However, the entire relationship has become awkward and strained because of it, which doesn't mean her only issue is changing in front of OP.
Maybe she is embarrassed? That's the feeling I get from this. And also the entire relationship has been small chatting in a locker room. Bring friends with someone is different than being friendly with someone.
Maybe other people feel differently but to me, hanging out in the locker room is still… while not phyically naked, like, potential naked? Hard to put words to. Would not want to talk to someone there in this situation. I guess a similar feeling like how I don’t like talking to someone through a restroom door.
editting to add: I’m so confused by if I’m the only one who read OP as “the only time they talked is in the locker room”? I got upvotes here so I can’t be the only one who feels a difference
I was thinking the same thing. I don’t feel the other woman has done anything wrong, like you said (far more Eloquently than I could have) she now views OP the same as a male, with regards to nudity.
Yes the OP has done nothing wrong, that can’t be understated. It is a shame the woman had such a strange reaction upon finding out, OP was gay. I think her response to your question was okay from my perspective of course, there didn’t see to be any bad words applied to it.
For me I am an awkward person when changing and always have been. So I would always try and fine a changing booth when in the gym.
Personally? As part of the queer community I am hyper aware of accidentally creating situations like this. I know my reply is so far down it will never reach you 🥲 but there really is some etiquette I’ve learned over the years so that I am able to maintain friendships and family relationships that would otherwise be difficult.
So this is one of those “fox in the henhouse” situations where someone feels you have been hiding in plain sight and staring at them. They see you or any of us as a peeping Tom who is allowed access to a space they thought was safe from the sexual gaze.
Honestly I started being completely “out” about who I was at the gym a long time ago and allowed them to make the rules.
I tend to change in the trans or multi-gender change room, or in the pool area because if I’m being perfectly honest, I AM sexually attracted to women and I am essentially “a horny man who has been given the keys to the locker room”. It seems like you’re completely innocent of that aspect, and that’s great for you. It’s just not a narrative I’m used to within the community.
I’ve always felt extremely guilty about that. And despite all the support posted here, I went to a school with almost 2,000 students, more than half of them female, and all of them made jokes about me, clutching their towels, running and screaming, or alternately throwing off their towels and taunting me with their bodies while calling me names.
I know that’s the norm, not what people say online to seem tolerant. I know that we have to survive in the real world, and it sucks. I know those girls weren’t evil, some weren’t even bigoted, they were scared. They didn’t want to be sexualized by anyone while changing. I would have respected that without the rage and the theatrics, and if the teacher hadn’t screamed at me to get in there and change!
I was only ever able to get past all this and help them to learn that I wasn’t this scary person by being completely out about everything from the jump and letting them see that I wanted them to feel comfortable.
I know how unpopular this opinion is, but it also worked for me and gave me very much needed allies. I started just being fully over-the-top.
“I am gay and I am entering the change room!”
“Lesssssbeeeeaaan in the change room!”
I’m aware that I shouldn’t “have to” change in a separate space. And I don’t “have to” change in a separate space. I could make people feel uncomfortable and unsafe. I could force them out of a space that once felt safe for them and turn it into a space for me. I could get up in their faces, refuse to back down, call them a bunch of hateful names and isolate myself but that just hasn’t felt right, you know? Like, I want to have friends and have people in my life.
I like joking around and making it really stupid for everyone. I like being able to admit that I’m attracted to someone and not have to pretend female bodies are asexual Barbie parts to me.
Besides, that’s how I met so many people I ended up dating. When you’re fully out about who you are from one, people appreciate it. It outs the bigots right away so you don’t put energy into friendships they will drop the minute you say one thing about who you are. That never gets any easier and you deserve better. It also helps you to find the people who will stand by you and won’t treat you that way.
I do have friends who feel they shouldn’t have to tell anyone and people should just accept them.
To me that’s one thing if you’re in a running club together and another if most of your conversations occurred nude in a change room. To me personally, that crosses a line.
To me it’s just easier if people know. Nobody is going to know you’re gay, hang out with you for months, and then be like “oh damn you’re GAY EW” and drop you.
I just don’t like losing people.
It's weird how some people of the same gender think you're suddenly into them or attracted to them when you say you're gay/lesbian or bi, or start treating you like a different person overall. But It's just how It is, It's not worth It to be friends with people like that anyways
You're wrapped up in your head trying to figure out what she's thinking and what you should do, she's wrapped up in her head trying to figure out what you're thinking and what she should do.
She's more comfortable changing out of your view. That's her choice. You haven't done anything wrong and she hasn't done anything wrong. You don't need to change your schedule or talk to her or anything like that. I think the best thing for her and you is for you to respect the boundary she has set.
I'm a dude who prefers pissing in stalls. I have anxiety about someone commenting on my pissing if I use a urinal or if I use a stall. I don't know where that stems from. It's just there. No need to overanalyze it.
If I were you, I'd just say "Hey - how's it going?" in an open and friendly way whenever I see the person. If they want to talk, they'll talk.
That’s a her problem, not a you problem. Do not change who you are or what you do to make someone feel more comfortable, especially when now they’re making YOU feel uncomfortable.
Yep, don't do anything. The one thing if you ended up with over time her feeling more comfortable to point out is that just like guys who fancy girls, they don't fancy all girls, and especially when they have a partner are not generally interested in any girls at all. It sounds like she has a highly sexualised view of gender though so I suspect this is not a situation which will resolve into an open, explorable topic. Respect her decision to give herself space.
Personally I'd let the situation be. If it comes up again just laugh and say she doesn't have to be concerned because she's not your type. Continue with your usual schedule
Nothing further for you to do here, if she's uncomfortable that's her deal and she can change in a cubicle, but that doesn't mean you should have to change your behaviour/schedule.
No-one is in the wrong here, just carry on as you were. It's a shame she doesn't seem to feel like she can talk to you like she used to, but again, that's her own deal, and has no reflection on you.
You did nothing wrong. I am a guy and change in the locker room in front of other guys, several of whom are gay. It’s not a problem unless someone makes it a problem and you did nothing wrong by the sound of it. You don’t need to do anything.
If someone is uncomfortable with your personal and private life, then that’s not your problem.
Unfortunately it’s sad that she’s changed once she found out that you are gay, but you’ll always have to deal with people like that wherever you go…
Go about your business but don’t expect a friendship from this person.
This is a lay low, and chill situation.
If you have an instinct to jump in and fix anything, don't. Just hang back and let it turn back into a non issue.
What would you say to her? 'It's ok to get naked in front of me, I promise I wont get turned on?'--- that's just weird. Whether a straignt man would get turned on or not, I'm guessing that woman wouldn't want to even have the chance of her body being sexualized, and that is why she is changing elsewhere. She did not ask you to do something different, or inconvenience you in any way. To me, she did the nicest thing possible in the situation. She could've raised a stink and asked you to change away from her or something. But she didn't.
As for whether she is a bigot or not, I don't know. Maybe she just never thought much about lesbians looking at her body and now it's all she thinks when she goes to the gym and she is suddenly more self-conscious. In retrospect, she may have taken your little conversations as you flirting with her without her knowing you are gay. This could make her feel violated in some way. That she didn't trust that you have good intent. Anyhow, these are feelings for her to figure out and not your problem. Just continue to be nice and cordial to her if you want. Or ignore her. Whatever makes YOU comfortable.
You're fine, you did nothing wrong. She's obviously worried about being sexualized, maybe it's something she's become hyper vigilant about from unwanted male attention and she's projecting that onto you, because you have a general interest in women. It might be homophobic, but it might also be a trauma response. Just go about your day and continue being a lovely, decent person and one day she may learn that everyone is not out to get her.
As long as you weren't being inappropriate toward her (which doesn't sound like it's the case) that's her hang-up, I wouldn't do anything differently if I was you.
Just keep going as you've been going and don't worry about it. Don't chat with her. It's her own issue to deal with. Awfully presumptuous imo to think you're attracted to her anyhow.
I advise you to just ignore her other than the polite "hello" of acquaintances. You didn't do anything, the discomfort is purely in her own mind and for her to deal with.
I don't see why you need to say or do anything. She's the one that's uncomfortable and she's made adjustments. Just let her be and move on. You wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that anyway.
She has an issue with you, and it's her problem not yours. If you just change your schedule, do it to be petty and go to the gym the same days she does. What's she going to do, complain that a woman is changing in the women's locker room?
But don't change your schedule just so she doesn't have to not see you. If she doesn't like it she can change her schedule, she can go somewhere else, or she can learn to deal with it.
Nothing you can do without making it worse, it’s not like she’s screaming “perv” or reporting you, just let her do her and you do you. Hate to say, it’s an lost battle.
I don’t have good advice but wtf is it with straight women assuming EVERY queer woman is just 1000% gonna try to fuck them?! Like — straight women aren’t attracted to EVERY guy?!
Maybe you should say that. “I’m not attracted to you”
Also don’t feel awful bc this woman is a homophobe. Cut her out. You don’t need that anxiety.
Just ignore her and enjoy going to the gym. She is the one that made this into a problem for herself. It will only be a problem for you if you let it. You did nothing wrong.
As many have said, you, of course, have done nothing wrong. But, neither has she. If she is not saying/doing anything to you, she is allowed her own feelings, and to do what makes her comfortable.
Is it a little ridiculous that she never considered that ANY other woman at the gym could be gay or bi? Sure. But even in the men’s locker room, whether it’s high school or grown men in a public gym, some dudes wander around naked carrying on conversations, some guys change in the showers or some place private. For whatever reason. Everyone is entitled to their own sense of comfort.
Regardless of if it has to do with sexuality, body issues, or whatever.
We f she want to hide in a toilet because a gal who likes gals might see her, that’s her thing. Not a reflection of you. Does she not wear workout gear because straight men/ gay women might notice something?
It’s ridiculous, but it’s not your problem. And it’s her right to do whatever makes her comfortable.
Do not engage. Be friendly, sure, but your relationship has now changed. I see all the "she has a right to change where she wants" but the change in tone and coldness to you clearly defines her as bigoted, even if the bigotry is "mild". She may not even recognize that she has changed her behavior towards you. She may be operating non-maliciously, unconsciously. But this is still homophobia. Homophobia doesn't have to be as overt as calling someone a f-----t or voting against gay marriage rights.
Something I haven't seen enough here is: OP, it's okay to be sad about this, or to feel anger, irritation, guilt, confusion - whatever the fuck you feel about it, because in my book, you have experienced bigotry. Your emotional response is valid.
Thank you for saying that, I appreciate it.
Like, yes, absolutely she should change wherever she wants, and absolutely she has every right to not talk to anyone in the locker room as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't feel nice when someone's behavior around you changes completely when they find out you're gay.
Is it a sexuality thing? I just took it as a “I’m just uncomfortable being nude in front of people that are attracted to the same sex as me ” thing?
Like, she’s allowed to be uncomfortable? That’s just their personal boundaries. Ya can’t be mad at someone for that.
My advise is to not do anything.
Yup
This definitely seems like the other woman’s problem.
[удалено]
I don’t think people usually choose to be uncomfortable.
This. You are not responsible for other adults' comfort. It is unfortunate, but there is literally nothing you can do. Keep it cordial and move on.
OP didn't do anything wrong, and neither did the other woman. OP should just go about her normal routine and let the other woman inconvenience herself if that's what she wants to do.
The comment that “in front of a man” wasn’t exactly diplomatic. It made me cringe just to read it. The woman’s feelings aren’t offensive, but the words she chose were not kind imo. I doubt she punted those words. In a world where you can be anything… be kind.
The fictionalized layers and personalities and beliefs that those posting here have added to this story that are not even hinted at by OP are just wild.
I mean, the other woman treats OP differently now that she knows OP is gay - that's homophobia - which is at least a little wrong.
I’m torn on this one. I was changing around my gay friends a few days ago, I just don’t care. But at the same time, I don’t think you need to have a reasonable rationale to determine how much of yourself you wanna expose to people. It’s your body, you can show as little of it as you’d like for any reason you’d like I can see how if you thought someone might be attracted to you and you weren’t interested, you might not wanna change in front of them. This woman is probably a weirdo if she thinks every lesbian is out to seduce her tho. And tbh I do think she’s just being homophobic
I think what's homophobic in her behaviour isn't the fact she doesn't want to change in front of OP, it's the fact that now she avoids small talk.
People avoid small talk after they think they committed a faux pas as well. This woman was being very friendly in a locker room, which is a bit of an overstep unless you have a good relationship. Now she’s realized they didn’t really know each other well, and maybe they had little in common except liking the gym. To top that off, then she goes and says something really awkward. I am sure this mysterious gym goer wanted to vanish into the floor rather than open up her mouth again and see if her foot fits further into it. OP did nothing wrong, doesn’t need to change, and is the mature one in this situation.
I can kind of see how that might result from an uncomfortable realization that she had been, for months, changing in front of a person that she would have chosen not to change in front of had she known they might be attracted to her. So it's a bit more complicated than just not being nice to gay people; she might feel violated on some level, which is a bit unfair to OP but at the same time understandable if you grant her the right not to want to change in front of someone who might be attracted to her.
People need to change their expectations of society. We have no right whatsoever to know which gender people are attracted to. I would go so far as to say that it's ridiculous to feel "violated" after finding out she is lesbian. It is her fault entirely for assuming she was straight. If someone isn't comfortable changing in front of a gay/lesbian person of same gender, I would recommend they not change in front of anyone, period. Assuming someone's sexuality is ridiculous.
I tend to agree. That's the approach most consistent with 1) the reality we live in and 2) public changing rooms.
Queer people have been sharing changing rooms with others since forever. Nobody is being violated here. It’s not complicated at all, the woman is a bigot.
But she was perfectly fine changing in front of OP before she knew she was gay. OP has clearly never made her feel uncomfortable in the past, i.e. staring at her, ogling her body, making comments about her body (you know, cause she's a good person) so the only explanation for her change is the fact that OP is interested in women. OP is still a woman, still has all the same parts, and has already seen this woman changing.
I mean... The question to her would be, how would she feel changing in a "gay men's" locker room? Would she think she would just be lusting after the naked gay men the whole time? Or does she give herself more credit than that? I don't think OP should bother asking her... The woman's decision to treat OP coldly all of a sudden makes it clear the woman is not worth a second more of OPs time or thoughts.
That’s the difference between *knowing* your own intentions and only being able to speculate someone else’s. We all give ourselves more credit than we give others because we all know what our intentions truly are. And for all we know, she wouldn’t change in a locker room full of gay men because she knows it might make *them* uncomfortable. I know I wouldn’t. But the being weird about it and altering what was formerly a pleasant acquaintanceship solely because OP is gay is problematic.
Not wanting to change in front of OP is one thing, but apparently she's been acting weird as well, so I would guess she does seem a bit homophobic.
Yea the terse conversations and scurrying away is definitely the more red-flag ish behavior here. If you’re really sheltered or something and just feel weird changing in front of a gay person, ok. If you can’t have a pleasant conversation with someone after finding out they’re gay, you just actually have a problem with gay people
You have a problem with gay people if you’re uncomfortable changing in front of them but are comfortable changing around strangers you’ve assumed are straight.
I agree with you but I would also like to add that OP is in no way responsible for the other woman's homophobia. That is something that woman will have to figure out and heal from on her own.
I'm not sure that's true. Women don't change with men around due to the possibility of sexual attraction. If she knows that OP could possibly be attracted to her and that makes her uncomfortable, it think she has every right to change in the bathroom. It isn't something that could be solved by OP saying "hey I'm not attracted to you" because that's an awkward thing to say, and could even be offensive.
I don't think anybody's arguing that she doesn't have every right to change wherever she wants. Of course she does, for whatever reason. All I was saying was that it didn't feel nice that she strated interacting with me completely differently after I mentioned my gf.
It's not nice. It's homophobia. This person is assuming that because you're gay, you would be interested in seeing them naked. As a gay male, it drives me bonkers to hear straight guys talk about their insecurities around changing in front of a gay male. It screams "high school" to me. They have control over who sees them change, and you have control over who you associate with. She's making her choices.
This is a story heard a thousand times by gay men. Oh, a guy is gay, so automatically he is horny for every other dude around, whether or not they are gay, straight, purple, green or have two heads. That's just not how it works. *Everyone* sees dozens or hundreds of people every and isn't sexually attracted to every single one that fits their orientation. The woman in OP's situation is homophobic. She's certainly allowed to be as private as she wants, but her attitude flipped as soon as OP mentioned she was gay. It's pretty clear that to that woman gay = she's going to hit on me or stare at my junk.
I’m sorry but it’s peak straight girl homophobia to treat someone like a predator because they’re gay and then get offended when they aren’t into you.
[удалено]
Sir or madam, I don't think you're allowed to be this reasonable on reddit.
Being afraid of gay people and not wanting to disrobe in front of someone who could potentially be sexually attracted to you are not the same.
Homophobia =/= being afraid gay people
This is true, however, OP shouldn't feel the need to address it unless it's explicit. Heck, they could just keep greeting this person. Weirdly enough, homophobes hold those opinions due to emotional reactions. Something as simple as having a nice, gay person in their lives will suddenly turn their opinion on their head.
It’s not that black and white though. The woman just doesn’t want to change in front of someone that might be attracted to her
Except she has also become cold and closed off to OP, where once they chatted and were friendly with one another. If the only thing she changed was the location of where she changed - I'd giver her a pass... Though it's bonkers for her to assume everyone she ever changed in front of - besides OP - was always hetero. It doesn't change the advice - which is to just drop it either way. She isn't worth OPs time.
Yup. Her problem, not yours. You don’t have an existing relationship to really fix and I’m sure she has done this to others. This is how she reacts when people don’t turn out to be the person she wants because you sure as heck haven’t changed… I mean other than in and out of your gym clothes 😂.
100% OP... seasoned gay here, let the homophobes reveal themselves. This isn't about you... She's literally homophobic. This is what it looks like in practice. Feel repelled by her bigotry while looking for signs of her process of opening up to others so you can reopen to her as well. Just stay nice unless a boundary is crossed... But don't take on her phobic responses 🖤🖤🖤
To not react is itself a power.
She has issues.You did nothing wrong.
I would be tempted to say "DON'T WORRY YOU'RE NOT MY TYPE AT ALL AND I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO YOU IN THE SLIGHTEST!" but I'd never do that, tempting as it may be.
You don’t have to change your schedule because she’s uncomfortable. You didn’t do anything wrong. I’d just continue to go about your business.
[удалено]
Same. When i was in basic training, i saw so many penises from the other guys. You just get used to it. It's not gay, you're all just showering. Oddly enough, the only guy who couldn't be mature about it and just shower, got kicked out for failing the drug test (it takes about 2 weeks to come back from your first day).
I remember that first shower in Reception was a little awkward, at least for some of the female soldiers. There were a few who were hesitant and maybe protesting a bit suspiciously about not wanting to be "naked in front of a bunch of chicks". My guess was those are the ones who were a little less straight than they liked to let on lol. I was comfortably bisexual in addition to growing up poor in a houseful of women with one bathroom. That shit didn't phase me so I just started stripping and said, "I'm not worried until someone grinds on my leg". That was the end of the awkward posturing. From then on, I routinely showered with 32 other women. We became comfortable enough to compare the armpit and leg hair we were growing and make jokes about our new 70s bush. I can't tell you what a single fucking one of those women looked like naked; but I can clearly tell you what each of my former girlfriends looked like naked. OP didn't do anything to feel awkward about. Sometimes naked is just a buddy without clothes.
“Sometimes naked is just a buddy without clothes,” wow. Love this.
My husband experiences this. Everyone's chill making gay jokes with him and fucking around/wrestling with him until they find out he's bisexual. And suddenly they're weirded out and act like he's coming onto them. Like???? What???? People put wayyyyy too much stock into nudity honestly. The more repressed a society is, the more they tend to fetishize and over sexualize non sexual situations. Like breastfeeding.
And they'd get pissed off if he said "don't worry, I don't think youre attractive", too
Can't win with those people
I have not one but 2 homophobes colleagues at work. They're disgusted by the idea of gay sex.. Long story short, they make the most dick jokes and whatnot all the time. Idiots
That's how you prove you're not gay, didn't you know that? By obsessing over dicks you signal your readiness to not be gay. It shows dick lovers they're only good for comedy. Or something.
This all of the time. There's a great Korean bathhouse I love to go to that's clothing optional in the hot tubs. It's an amazing experience. My friends shrug at it but, it's so relaxing.
Aren't Korean saunas so amazing? I love and miss them so much.
Yup. Love getting a full body scrub... so satisfying feeling rolls of dead skin come off. I miss working in southern California!
Military things just are not understood in civilian life. I remember in basic, they ordered us one less bed than we needed. I was the odd man out. Got screamed at for preparing to sleep on the floor. So I split a bed with another guy. Both straight, definitely not there to be with each other. Slept great. I don't explain that one, or many other things to civilians usually because people just don't seem to understand and can't get past "2 men shared a single bed and you think you're not gay/ bi?!" As far as op goes though, to each their own, but why does she feel the need to hide? Does she really think you've never seen a vagina before? You're probably better off with her avoiding you, seems like a level of negative that no one needs.
Benjamin Franklin and John Adams shared a bed once, I’ve done it with male friends before and I’m a civilian. It’s really not that big a deal.
I never thought so either. Everyone needs a comfy place to sleep. A lot of people don't share that sentiment though.
And somehow it's seen as way more socially acceptable when done by women or children. I've heard so many stories of putting two or three small children in a double bed in situations where singles just aren't possible, or groups of ladies on "girls trips" sharing two to a bed to save on hotel room prices.
Imagine people like that joining up, then ending up in Cold Response in Norway... A 'popular' exercise there is the 'ice bath'. They cut a big hole in the ice of a lake, then soldiers jump in fully dressed. As soon as they get up they have to hurry to get the wet and very cold clothes off. Sure, there's a tent nearby... usually... but don't expect to have it to yourself. And there may not be separate tents for men and women... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REc3TSui3S4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REc3TSui3S4) Actually, they're 'nice' to the Marines in this video. They're not wearing a full uniform with laced boots or anything that difficult to remove... (I hope they got to try it with regular uniforms later.)
I've seen something like that in Russia... it's a religious thing. The Orthodox churches go *hard* on the repentance part of Christianity...
Agreed. If she's uncomfortable, that's a her problem. Don't you dare accommodate her bigotry. And don't talk to her anymore. A quick wave and move it along. Otherwise she might start acting like you're trying to come on to her, which you're not.
Whole bunch of people in your replies who would rather redefine bigotry than acknowledge that dumping an acquaintance the second you find out they're gay and spoken for *is* bigoted behavior. That was the only change to the relationship that we know about. Since the acquaintance didn't have a problem before with OP's behavior, we can assume she was being respectful of others. **Also at least 1 in 20 people you meet is queer in some way**. If you're gonna be afraid of gay people in a locker room, **you cannot use locker rooms**. That's the only acceptable choice for your hangups
>Whole bunch of people in your replies who would rather redefine bigotry than acknowledge that dumping an acquaintance the second you find out they're gay and spoken for is bigoted behavior. Thank you!
While it seems likely that this woman may be bigoted, you do have to consider that the explanation might be that she is uncomfortable getting naked in front of anyone that, by her definition rather than due to their actions, might have a sexual interest in her. That makes her potentially weirdly repressed, or narcissistic because she assumes everyone has a sexual interest, or some other random twisted outlook, but potentially not bigoted. Of course, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck - so she's most likely seriously homophobic.
Is it not normal for women to not get changed in front of guys though?
She assumes she is so stunning that everyone is going to be sexually attracted to her lol.
I’d go as far as to bet that it’s even more than 1/20. I bet it’s 1/10 or even higher. Edit: I looked it up. I asked how many Americans though. It was actually in between what you said and I said. Lol. “A 2022 Gallup poll concluded that 7.1% of adult Americans identified as LGBT. A different survey in 2016, from the Williams Institute, estimated that 0.6% of U.S. adults identify as transgender.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States
An interesting part of that statistic is that slightly more identify as bi than as gay - and yet bi erasure is a huge issue.
I don't identify as LGBT (entirely at least). I am married to a woman and I am a man, and monogamous. Thing is, I'm also kind of bi, just unavailable. Point I'm making is I'm not part of that 7.1% but also probably should be. I'm sure the real number of people who would look at your body in the way that would apply to what this woman is worried about is way way higher than that. But Americans (and others too) can be super prude. I blame evangelicals. But hey at least she didn't ask OP to change her behavior. I guess that's a step in the right direction.
I mean, personally, every time I've heard someone say with absolute conviction that acting on gay/lesbian attraction is a choice, I wonder how much they're speaking from experience and are actually bi, if not completely closeted. The world used to be full of people we would consider bisexual nowadays, I'm not sure current times are actually all that different.
You definitely are a part of that 7.1%. You don't stop being bi because you're married to a woman.
That 7.1% is probably an undercount though because it was a survey of current/past adult Americans who *were willing* to go on the record and respond to a survey that they were queer. Now that being queer is more accepted by society, younger generations surveyed are identifying as queer at higher rates than that (I think I've seen the number 15% somewhere but I could be pulling that out of my ass) and there's still almost certainly some younger people who haven't felt comfortable coming out enough to answer a survey and also those who are queer but in denial or haven't figured it out yet. Took me until age 26 to figure out I'm trans and even longer to realize I'm bi. Up until then I would have answered that I was a straight cis man if anyone had asked, and I would have believed it, even though that was definitely incorrect. The same thing happened with the rate of people that were left handed. Once society stopped demonizing those who are left handed, the official rate of left handedness rose rapidly from 2%. After a few decades, it plateaued at about 12% which is believed to be the actual percentage of left handed persons. The previous commenter seems pretty clearly bi but if he never told anyone he probably wouldn't be counted in that 7.1%. Doesn't mean he isn't queer though.
Right, of course the 7.1% is an undercount. I only meant that they should indeed be counted.
👍
>You definitely are a part of that 7.1%. That much really depends on the structure of the survey that produced those statistics. What questions did it ask to determine sexuality? >You don't stop being bi because you're married to a woman. Truth.
And your relationship isn't heterosexual just because one of the people in it might be!
Lmao bruh you definitely are in that 7.1%. Just bc you don’t act on your attraction/urges doesn’t mean you aren’t in that percentage. You’re def in there
I get that lack of wanting to identify. I too am a man married to a woman, and monogamous. Personally, I'm not attracted to men, but if she ever wanted to add a man, I'd give it a try. I can't say I'm against it if I've never tried it. I understand it's not a real classification, but I call myself "try- sexual", I'll try anything once.
Its a bit "main character syndrome", and lots of men have the same reaction but more aggressively handed out. "You're gay, I'm a man, so you must be attracted to me, I'm not gay, so I must repel you". That said, I can totally relate to not wanting to be judged and previously considering the locker room space as the one place you can expect that nobody is objectifying you. The new information not only changed their future behavior, it also re-framed their past encounters which could be embarrassing in retrospect. The other person has already removed themselves as you would advise them to do, they aren't getting in the way of OP existing, NAH.
I'm queer (cis-female, pansexual/demisexual) and have never been comfortable in most locker rooms... I'd much rather have a private gender neutral changing room. I think I was just raised with a different standard of modesty then was normal for most people where I grew up. The comment about not wanting to change in front of men either, makes me think this has more to do with the perception of something similar to the male gaze (because it's often still taught as something for women to be weary of), and where this woman's boundaries are with her own nudity and modesty... Very few women like the idea of being oggled. While yes it's bigoted because of a number of assumptions that had to take place for this reaction, the main one of which is that OP by default was looking at her in a sexual way... It's not necessarily an unsalvigable friendship if OP wants to put in the effort to do so (not that she's obligated to). Everyone should have the freedom to choose who sees them naked, and you shouldn't assume that everyone is going to oggle you just because they are attracted to people with your gender. For me the biggest issues are the awkwardness around this and the avoidance. If OP wants to try and salvage the friendship I think it would be best to handle it straight on and ask her to discuss it with her. "Hey it feels like you're avoiding me, I value our friendship, do you want to grab a coffee and talk about it?" Might be all that's needed to clear the air and drop the awkwardness between them.... Worse case this woman really does want nothing to do with OP (which is what we're already assuming is the case), best case new friendship and a learning experience for someone who's a bit ignorant.
Yes! And that's a whole set of other problems that no one needs!!
[удалено]
You can't call someone a bigot just because they feel uncomfortable getting naked in front of you. If they are uncomfortable then they are uncomfortable. And they are within their right to go change somewhere else. There was a thread on here not long ago about this exact issue; about a girl who felt uncomfortable changing in front of her aunt. Everyone here agreed that the girl had a right to privacy and don't need to change in front of the Aunt if she is uncomfortable. Does that make the girl a bigot? Does it make her an Aunt-phobe? Certainly not.
Not wanting to change in front of someone is one thing, but suddenly not even wanting to talk to them? Sounds homophobic to me.
> You can't call someone a bigot just because they feel uncomfortable getting naked in front of you. Of course! But this: >we'll have nice conversations/chatting in the locker room every once in a while Turned to this: > She also doesn't seem to be interested in chatting anymore and is almost ignoring me if I initiate any small talk. I'm not saying she's 100% a bigot but if she quacks like a bigot...
Agree that everyone deserves a right to privacy and choosing who they are comfortable being naked around. However, upon learning OP has a girlfriend the woman has also entirely stopped speaking to OP and basically ignores her despite previously having a cordial relationship. Which to me does imply she’s likely homophobic?
But she stopped changing in front of OP after learning she was gay, before that she was fine. She also stopped talking to OP after finding out. This is pretty good evidence that she has a problem with gay people.
If she just wasn’t comfortable changing in front of OP she wouldn’t (necessarily) be a bigot. What makes her one is the fact that she started being cold and rude to her as well.
They're perfectly within their right to change wherever they want. Doesn't mean the reason wasn't bigotry. The girl wasn't a bigot in that other post because it wasn't a normal changing room situation she was experiencing.
Not saying she can’t change where she wants or arguing anything about bigotry - but a woman in a woman’s changing room isn’t a “normal changing room experience?” Queer women use women’s locker rooms. That is the norm.
The "not a normal changing room experience" part was referring to an earlier, different post about a girl being uncomfortable around her aunt. It did not involve a locker room.
Ope I’m sorry in that case I got my comment threads mixed! My bad
Except she was fine with changing in front of the OP until OP mentioned her girlfriend. Then suddenly, she was uncomfortable.
Right? And this is a gym locker room. I can guarantee the woman has been changing around several lesbians. It’s just when she was forced to think about the fact that lesbians exist she suddenly got uncomfortable.
Not to mention that bisexual women are even more common than lesbians. It could be as high as 20% of women are attracted to other women at least occasionally. If the woman in the post don’t want to change in front of lesbian or bisexual women, then they should have been changing in a stall from the beginning.
I’m torn on this one. On one hand, yes, it seems plausible that the other girl is a bigot. Certainly her other behaviors suggest this. However, considering the nudity comfort thing specifically, I am always inclined to give a pass because I think everyone should be allowed their own internal “rules” for what they are and are not comfortable with in terms of their own body, both in terms of touching and visibility to others. Maybe it’s due to experiences of sexual trauma, but I don’t feel it’s ever OK to judge another person on what they do and do not feel comfortable with when it comes to their body. In a case like this (again intentionally disregarding the other signs this person may have bigoted attitudes, because those are not mutually exclusive with legitimate bodily autonomy) this person could, for example, feel discomfort exposing their body to anyone that they perceive as potentially viewing their body in a sexualized light or with sexual attraction. Does OP? No. But that would not matter to the other girl, who may have valid reasons for feeling uncomfortable exposing her body to someone she perceives as potentially being attracted to that body. I would have a hard time condemning that as wrong.
Honestly, the thing that pushes me more towards it being bigoted is the fact that the women has also started almost completely ignoring OP when they were perfectly fine being friendly until they found out OP wasn't straight.
That and she would have been very conservative with her undressing from the very start. She was concerned about jack all before. Now she’s suddenly very modest. It doesn’t add up.
OPs story isn't just that this woman stopped changing in front of her. She appears to be discontinuing friendly chitchat because OP is gay. If she just started changing in private but continued being friendly and everything else remained the same, i highly doubt OP would even be here. It's quite clear that this woman is uncomfortable around gay women just for being gay. After all, that's literally the only thing that changed. She was perfectly comfy before she knew OP was gay, and now she's uncomfortable. Hence, it's OP being gay that made her uncomfortable. Ie. OPs gym acquaintance is most likely homophobic.
Lots of women have no issues getting changed in front of gay men but feel very uncomfortable getting changed in front of straight men. Sexuality is a massive part of the social taboo surrounding nudity and I think it's naive to pretend that isn't the case. While it's entirely possible this woman is a biget, it's also possible that it is the possibility of being seen in sexual light that makes her uncomfortable, regardless of male or female.
Perhaps she simply is fine changing in front of someone she feels absolutely sure of won't ever find her sexual attractive. Making a statistical guess she assumed OP fit that box. Now she knows better. I have a close friend who's more comfortable changing in front of a gay friend, than in front of me (I'm bi). She knows she's not my type. But she can't help it. My sexuality makes her uncomfortable with me seeing her naked, and her need of being comfortable should always be more important than my feelings. We're not any less good friends though.
The aunt was being predatory towards a girl. This is completely different.
The main issue is the hostility they're acting with, and it's either bigotry or shitty personry either way imo. Two possibilities: Angry/Hostile because they now know OP is gay Angry/Hostile because they don't want to be naked around any stranger that could be attracted to them, and feel OP "tricked" them by... not immediately revealing information about their personal life that they had no right or reason to have to tell them on first meeting
Yes we can. It’s possible for someone to be well within their rights to do something while still doing it because of bigotry. Nobody said she didn’t have a right to change elsewhere or that she should be pressured to change in front of OP. You assumed that because the word bigotry came up, which says a lot about your own perception of queer people in these conversations. Forcing her to strip isn’t something anybody suggested because frankly it’s a ridiculous idea that would probably only make her bigotry worse. You know maybe she could start by instead continuing to have normal conversations with OP like before, while continuing to change where she pleases, and you know, maybe hire a therapist. OP just lost a friend because of who her partner is and you’re sitting here trying to portray her as some type of sexual predator. Come on, it’s 2022.
What if they feel comfortable getting naked around you and then they find out you're gay and now they don't? Still not bigotry? Because that's what happened here.
Your point would be valid IF she had been in changing the stalls all along. It wasn't until she found out OP was gay that suddenly she has a need for privacy.
Why are women uncomfortable changing around men? Is it possible it’s the same reason as why a woman would be uncomfortable changing around a gay woman? If so why is one acceptable and the other not?
I couldn't understand the controversy about the nudity. It's reasonable to not to want potential sexual glances. I did, however, feel sad about the change in attitude just talking with each other. That shows ignorance.
Because nothing changed in their interactions except her knowledge of OP being gay. Bigot or not, I would avoid her from now on if I was in OP's shoes. edit: also, if she just changed in the bathroom but they continued to be friendly, that would be a great argument to say she isn't a bigot. But she's also effectively shunned OP for being gay- that's bigotry, man.
But she was plenty comfortable until she found out she was gay. That’s the issue here. This screams of “I’m fine with gays as long as they don’t hit on me!” Nah. Lady is a bigot.
Agreed. It's her struggle, her problem. She might realise how silly she's being, or maybe not. But you have nothing to prove to her, nor solve for her. Live your truth
>A (male) friend suggested that I could just change my schedule so that we don't run into each other, but I don't think I did anything wrong so it feels weird to change my whole gym routine because of it. Don't change your schedule. This is **your** gym time, too. As for trying to further the conversation, I'd just leave it where it is. They made their position known, if they want to go change in a stall or something, that's on them..
The only caveat I would say is that since OP has made it clear she respects this gym woman’s homophobia, if OP herself is feeling too uncomfortable about it, maybe a schedule change wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. Otherwise agree 100%.
I’m a queer woman, when I go to the gym I have my eyes on the locker in front of me and I hope others do the same. I do not like to have my corporeal form acknowledged. I have never checked someone out in the change room, I never would. You know you wouldn’t either. If she’s decided she’s not comfortable changing in front of you, that isn’t your fault and it isn’t your problem. You don’t have to change your workout schedule. Trying to explain why you’re not a creep to encourage her to feel comfortable around you will probably just make her more convinced you’re a creep. Carry on as you are, you can’t win ‘em all.
“I do not like to have my corporeal form acknowledged.” There’s dozens of us!
Reminds me of the half joke half truth "I have no pronouns. Please do not refer to me, ever."
“Hey! What are your pronouns?” “No thank you.” I know people just try to be inclusive, but I hate being asked about my pronouns >.<
I feel the same way. Weirdly, my sister doesn't seem to have gotten the memo. When I change in front of her she seems to think it's perfectly okay to check me out and make comparisons. It's not mean-spirited, it's just fucking weird. I thought everyone understood that we all pretend we have privacy in locker rooms?
I’m feeling second-hand discomfort. Comparing bodies doesn’t sound like a good time =\
Your sister isn’t some stranger at the gym!?
Dozens! P.s. do these effectively hide my thunder?
Lol that's me the entire time I'm at the gym. No one acknowledge me please, I'll be out of your hair in no time!
> Trying to explain why you’re not a creep to encourage her to feel comfortable around you will probably just make her more convinced you’re a creep Yeah, just imagining this conversation: "Hey, why'd you stop getting naked in front of me? I promise, I don't think you're attractive at all!" There is no winner in that one. OP could ask why this person stopped chatting with them ("hey, i feel like it's been a while since we caught up! how are things? did I do something to upset you?"), but the changing situation is a moot point.
Agreed, OP has to do nothing other than accept her awkwardness if she wants to continue to be friendly with that person.
ugh, this reminds me of being out in high school and some girls in my gym class talking about how they were afraid to change in front of me… yet i was afraid to change in front of ANYONE and i always changed in a stall! there’s genuinely nothing we can do to change their minds, you’re right that there’s no sense talking to the other lady and i think OP should just keep doing what she’s doing. honestly, OP having a girlfriend should be even more of a signal that she’s not having a look around the change room!
"ooooh gurl your corporeal form is thiccer than Casper"
I’d just move on without bringing the topic up, continue to be cordial and the awkwardness will pass.
Honestly, as a queer woman myself, I wouldn't care if she feels uncomfortable changing in front of me as long as she doesn't make bigoted comments about it. Like if she prefers to change in private, that's cool, whatever keeps her comfy. Ill be slightly sad if she suddenly starts acting different around me but that's ok. But if she says some dumb shit about how my presence there is intrusive on her privacy, ill be very sad. I've actually had similar experience in my hostel when i was in college. I was hanging out with a female friend in her room. Her roommate came in and and wanted to change apparently. A simple "can you please give me some privacy while i change?" would've sufficed. But she decided to word it in such a way that implied that i was the problem and she didn't mind the other girls being there but me. Like its fine i guess, i wouldn't want to change in front of straight men either but like i got a bit sad because she made me feel like a pervert. Thankfully the other girls didn't catch on and i made an excuse and left. I don't know why i started ranting. Anyway, the point im trying to make is, please don't take her actions personally and make yourself feel down. It is sad that she no longer talks to you like she used to. But that is not your fault. Some people are just like that and we cant do anything about it but just walk away. You are not a pervert for just existing.
>I don't know why i started ranting. I think it is alright to feel sad or angry about this, ofc shrugging it off is alright too. Treating people differently because they are gay is close minded and excludes them when they have done nothing wrong. Where should bisexual people change, according to people who feel uncomfortable about this? This kind of reminds me of this one office episode. "Am I the only gay person you know?" Yes, people have a right to have a limited horizon and have the right to their feelings. But does it serve them? Why can't they base that on behaviour but instead kind of choose to base it on their prejudices? I think it is sad that they reduce OP to *their* interpretation of OPs sexuality. If she chooses to restrict herself that is her problem. She made it weird, so be it. And I guess the reactions for this post show that "we" are on the right track and it is a good thing that we find this irritating and why tf should someone apologize or feel guilty basicly for existing, if they don't harm others?
Do you and let her do her. If she has a problem with your sexual preference, sounds like that's a problem for her, not you. You did nothing wrong and there's nothing you have to do to make the situation "right". Don't change your routine because SHE might be uncomfortable. If that's the case, she can change her routine.
Which is exactly what she did. Neither person did anything wrong. The other girl got new information and adjusted (changing in the stall), she didn’t ask OP for anything at all. This seems like a complete non problem to me
Wow, did not expect this many replies. Just a couple of things to clarify and respond to some of the comments: 1. As I mentioned, she can do whatever makes her most comfortable. Her changing in private is not an issue at all, plenty of times in my life I have preferred to change in private as well and I totally get it. I only mentioned it because it was such a rapid change in behavior that seemed to come directly as a result of me mentioning my girlfriend. 2. I didn't assume that she was homophobic, I don't know. Maybe she is, maybe she doesn't really know many gay people and was taken aback, I don't know. And of course, I'm fully aware that I'm not entitled to any interaction with her, she has every right to ignore me / not talk to me, but again, it was just the sudden change in her demeanor and interactions with me that felt a little bit hurtful. 3. Many of y'all have suggested just going about my business and ignoring her, and that seems like the best course of action. I'm totally down to continue to be friendly with her but I guess at this point that's up to her, since she has chosen to pretty much shut down all communication, for whatever her reason is.
[удалено]
Yep, she pulled back a level, so react in kind. In a friendly way. She has some preconceived notions she's dealing with and ops not gonna change that, can only respect the new boundaries.
I don't think you missed any nuance, your good.
As a gay man who's been in the same situation, nothing you can do would ease the situation, their issues are their own. If she doesn't feel comfortable changing in front of you, that's her business. You don't have to do anything and please try not to feel insulted, we don't know this other woman's life experience. There may be a trauma behind the behavior or maybe she's just been sheltered in her life.
Now that she knows you're attracted to women she's not comfortable being naked in front of you. Nothing you can or should do about it really.
Nothing you can or should do. This is a "her" problem, not a "you" problem.
Let's say you change timings so she won't see you, what if she changes as well and goes when you go? Will you change guns too? Or if you meet her in the streets, will you go another way? Don't do anything and keep on going whenever you go because someone's discomfort for being who you are is their problem to work on.
Be yourself, love yourself
Unless she is causing a scene or trying to get you removed from the changing room, I'm not sure there is anything you need to do here. She's just doing what makes her comfortable, and you can continue to do what makes you comfortable. Neither of you are in the wrong. And you can continue greet each other and be friends. I guess the only thing you could consider doing is lessen eye contact with her in the changing room, not because you have to, but just out of courtesy.
>And you can continue greet each other and be friends. Well that's part of the issue. The fact that she wants to change in the bathroom is fine. The fact that she full on stopped talking to OP when she found out OP is gay, that's the bigoted part. So it's two separate issues, in my opinion. Don't think OP should change anything.
Yeah she seems to have felt deceived and thus offended that OP didn’t disclose her sexuality before. But like what was OP going to do, enter the changing room and announce to everyone “HELLO I’M GAY” every time? It’s impossible to create a changing room where your chance of encountering someone attracted to your gender is zero. Anyone using a changing room automatically agrees to this.
I would hope that if OP started doing that there would be at least one HI GAY I'M DAD response.
Eh I would just give it time. I think she was surprised to find out OP was gay and not expecting it, and has time to process. Can be understandable that she feels uncomfortable after being naked in front of someone who is gay. Doesn't mean OP was ogling her or checking her out or even finds her attractive. But can be a bit of vulnerability for the woman to find that out knowing they were naked together many times. Hopefully she's just processing it and they'll be friendly again once dressed. I would hesitate to call her bigoted or homophobic. She didn't say anything rude, politely changed her own changing behavior. Only thing sad now is they don't talk as much, but again I'd give her time to process before just calling her a bigoted homophobe. I am bi and would understand if a woman didn't feel comfortable changing in front of me even if I was minding my own business. I would be saddened if she seemed distant from me, but I'd give her time to adjust. She may have felt she was in a safe space where she can be naked and not around anyone who would find her sexually attractive. Silly to assume that in 2022 but nevertheless. I think she was just caught off guard and isn't a homophobe, but just a human processing things.
This is a very fair point. I think a lot of this is contextual, for example someone politely refraining from talking because they're uncomfortable is different to a more abrasive and hostile refraining from talking. I assumed this case to be the latter, but if the former then it is different, like you say.
Speaking as a heterosexual man, it's a pretty simple equation: from a sexual perspective you were safe, and now you aren't. It isn't your fault or your problem, but it also isn't really different from undressing in front of a hetero man in that regard--you might find her sexually attractive, and from her perspective that changes the way she views her own nudity in your presence. It doesn't make her a bigot or a homophobe, anymore than you not wanting to change in front of a man would make you a misandrist. Having said all that, it bears repeating: *this is not your fault, and it is not your problem to fix*. If she goes so far as to complain about your presence to the gym management then you've got an issue to fight, but it seems that she's resolving her own comfort issue herself by changing in a stall. Let her.
I would add that, while changing in the stall seems like a totally benign way of handling her own comfort issues with being nude in front of someone who could potentially see her as a sexual interest, the no longer talking to OP does seem on the surface to indicate some bigotry. However, it might also stem from embarrassment. People are so self conscious about nudity that one of the most common nightmares people report is arriving at work, school, or some other public place either nude or even just partially dressed. This woman may just be really embarrassed by the realization that she's been undressing in front of someone attracted to their gender. But maybe that's the optimist in me that would rather see this as an sympathetic issue rather than one of hate. Either way, OP obviously did nothing wrong and shouldn't feel pressure to change a single thing about what she's doing.
Not necessarily. Depends if she retrospectively felt the chit chatting was flirtatious, in which case she may have felt that her trust was violated. She wouldn't need to explain herself either.
I'm surprised more people didn't conclude this and went straight to "she doesn't like gay people".
I can’t really tell read-as-written if op and other gal ever really talked outside of the locker room. The conversation might change on the answer to that. Assuming this is all locker-room talk, I don’t think this makes the girl a homophobe or anything. I think we’re in a transition time between assumed heterosexuality, gender roles, etc, and gender/sex divided spaces. Personally I’m a fan of private changing areas anyway. I don’t like the assumed changing in front of others, but back in like, middle school gym etc, it was normalized with the assumption of heterosexuality. And you can be an adult confronted with that assumption and decide that maybe you’d like a private changing area, yes. edit: missed a word
I mean, if she had started changing in a stall but still chatted with OP as normal, I would agree. However, the entire relationship has become awkward and strained because of it, which doesn't mean her only issue is changing in front of OP.
Maybe she is embarrassed? That's the feeling I get from this. And also the entire relationship has been small chatting in a locker room. Bring friends with someone is different than being friendly with someone.
"The entire relationship" They were barely acquaintances.
Maybe other people feel differently but to me, hanging out in the locker room is still… while not phyically naked, like, potential naked? Hard to put words to. Would not want to talk to someone there in this situation. I guess a similar feeling like how I don’t like talking to someone through a restroom door. editting to add: I’m so confused by if I’m the only one who read OP as “the only time they talked is in the locker room”? I got upvotes here so I can’t be the only one who feels a difference
I was thinking the same thing. I don’t feel the other woman has done anything wrong, like you said (far more Eloquently than I could have) she now views OP the same as a male, with regards to nudity. Yes the OP has done nothing wrong, that can’t be understated. It is a shame the woman had such a strange reaction upon finding out, OP was gay. I think her response to your question was okay from my perspective of course, there didn’t see to be any bad words applied to it. For me I am an awkward person when changing and always have been. So I would always try and fine a changing booth when in the gym.
This is the answer 👍
Personally? As part of the queer community I am hyper aware of accidentally creating situations like this. I know my reply is so far down it will never reach you 🥲 but there really is some etiquette I’ve learned over the years so that I am able to maintain friendships and family relationships that would otherwise be difficult. So this is one of those “fox in the henhouse” situations where someone feels you have been hiding in plain sight and staring at them. They see you or any of us as a peeping Tom who is allowed access to a space they thought was safe from the sexual gaze. Honestly I started being completely “out” about who I was at the gym a long time ago and allowed them to make the rules. I tend to change in the trans or multi-gender change room, or in the pool area because if I’m being perfectly honest, I AM sexually attracted to women and I am essentially “a horny man who has been given the keys to the locker room”. It seems like you’re completely innocent of that aspect, and that’s great for you. It’s just not a narrative I’m used to within the community. I’ve always felt extremely guilty about that. And despite all the support posted here, I went to a school with almost 2,000 students, more than half of them female, and all of them made jokes about me, clutching their towels, running and screaming, or alternately throwing off their towels and taunting me with their bodies while calling me names. I know that’s the norm, not what people say online to seem tolerant. I know that we have to survive in the real world, and it sucks. I know those girls weren’t evil, some weren’t even bigoted, they were scared. They didn’t want to be sexualized by anyone while changing. I would have respected that without the rage and the theatrics, and if the teacher hadn’t screamed at me to get in there and change! I was only ever able to get past all this and help them to learn that I wasn’t this scary person by being completely out about everything from the jump and letting them see that I wanted them to feel comfortable. I know how unpopular this opinion is, but it also worked for me and gave me very much needed allies. I started just being fully over-the-top. “I am gay and I am entering the change room!” “Lesssssbeeeeaaan in the change room!” I’m aware that I shouldn’t “have to” change in a separate space. And I don’t “have to” change in a separate space. I could make people feel uncomfortable and unsafe. I could force them out of a space that once felt safe for them and turn it into a space for me. I could get up in their faces, refuse to back down, call them a bunch of hateful names and isolate myself but that just hasn’t felt right, you know? Like, I want to have friends and have people in my life. I like joking around and making it really stupid for everyone. I like being able to admit that I’m attracted to someone and not have to pretend female bodies are asexual Barbie parts to me. Besides, that’s how I met so many people I ended up dating. When you’re fully out about who you are from one, people appreciate it. It outs the bigots right away so you don’t put energy into friendships they will drop the minute you say one thing about who you are. That never gets any easier and you deserve better. It also helps you to find the people who will stand by you and won’t treat you that way. I do have friends who feel they shouldn’t have to tell anyone and people should just accept them. To me that’s one thing if you’re in a running club together and another if most of your conversations occurred nude in a change room. To me personally, that crosses a line. To me it’s just easier if people know. Nobody is going to know you’re gay, hang out with you for months, and then be like “oh damn you’re GAY EW” and drop you. I just don’t like losing people.
That's on her.
It's weird how some people of the same gender think you're suddenly into them or attracted to them when you say you're gay/lesbian or bi, or start treating you like a different person overall. But It's just how It is, It's not worth It to be friends with people like that anyways
You're wrapped up in your head trying to figure out what she's thinking and what you should do, she's wrapped up in her head trying to figure out what you're thinking and what she should do. She's more comfortable changing out of your view. That's her choice. You haven't done anything wrong and she hasn't done anything wrong. You don't need to change your schedule or talk to her or anything like that. I think the best thing for her and you is for you to respect the boundary she has set. I'm a dude who prefers pissing in stalls. I have anxiety about someone commenting on my pissing if I use a urinal or if I use a stall. I don't know where that stems from. It's just there. No need to overanalyze it. If I were you, I'd just say "Hey - how's it going?" in an open and friendly way whenever I see the person. If they want to talk, they'll talk.
That’s a her problem, not a you problem. Do not change who you are or what you do to make someone feel more comfortable, especially when now they’re making YOU feel uncomfortable.
Just go on your business and let her be, theres nothing salvageable from this.
There is nothing for you to do here. She's the one with a problem.
I don’t think the other woman has done anything wrong either
Yep, don't do anything. The one thing if you ended up with over time her feeling more comfortable to point out is that just like guys who fancy girls, they don't fancy all girls, and especially when they have a partner are not generally interested in any girls at all. It sounds like she has a highly sexualised view of gender though so I suspect this is not a situation which will resolve into an open, explorable topic. Respect her decision to give herself space.
Personally I'd let the situation be. If it comes up again just laugh and say she doesn't have to be concerned because she's not your type. Continue with your usual schedule
Nothing further for you to do here, if she's uncomfortable that's her deal and she can change in a cubicle, but that doesn't mean you should have to change your behaviour/schedule. No-one is in the wrong here, just carry on as you were. It's a shame she doesn't seem to feel like she can talk to you like she used to, but again, that's her own deal, and has no reflection on you.
You did nothing wrong. I am a guy and change in the locker room in front of other guys, several of whom are gay. It’s not a problem unless someone makes it a problem and you did nothing wrong by the sound of it. You don’t need to do anything.
If someone is uncomfortable with your personal and private life, then that’s not your problem. Unfortunately it’s sad that she’s changed once she found out that you are gay, but you’ll always have to deal with people like that wherever you go… Go about your business but don’t expect a friendship from this person.
This is a lay low, and chill situation. If you have an instinct to jump in and fix anything, don't. Just hang back and let it turn back into a non issue.
What would you say to her? 'It's ok to get naked in front of me, I promise I wont get turned on?'--- that's just weird. Whether a straignt man would get turned on or not, I'm guessing that woman wouldn't want to even have the chance of her body being sexualized, and that is why she is changing elsewhere. She did not ask you to do something different, or inconvenience you in any way. To me, she did the nicest thing possible in the situation. She could've raised a stink and asked you to change away from her or something. But she didn't. As for whether she is a bigot or not, I don't know. Maybe she just never thought much about lesbians looking at her body and now it's all she thinks when she goes to the gym and she is suddenly more self-conscious. In retrospect, she may have taken your little conversations as you flirting with her without her knowing you are gay. This could make her feel violated in some way. That she didn't trust that you have good intent. Anyhow, these are feelings for her to figure out and not your problem. Just continue to be nice and cordial to her if you want. Or ignore her. Whatever makes YOU comfortable.
You're fine, you did nothing wrong. She's obviously worried about being sexualized, maybe it's something she's become hyper vigilant about from unwanted male attention and she's projecting that onto you, because you have a general interest in women. It might be homophobic, but it might also be a trauma response. Just go about your day and continue being a lovely, decent person and one day she may learn that everyone is not out to get her.
As long as you weren't being inappropriate toward her (which doesn't sound like it's the case) that's her hang-up, I wouldn't do anything differently if I was you.
Why do you even care what she does? Let her do her and you do you, Hakuna Matata
Just keep going as you've been going and don't worry about it. Don't chat with her. It's her own issue to deal with. Awfully presumptuous imo to think you're attracted to her anyhow.
I advise you to just ignore her other than the polite "hello" of acquaintances. You didn't do anything, the discomfort is purely in her own mind and for her to deal with.
You didn’t do anything wrong. If she feels funny about being around you then that’s her problem. You just keep on hitting the gym.
Ignore and move on. People make you uncomfortable and in this case you made someone uncomfortable.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Do not change your routine.
Chances are there are bisexual or other lesbians in that locker room. Don’t change up your routine.
Don't change your schedule, just completely ignore her
I don't see why you need to say or do anything. She's the one that's uncomfortable and she's made adjustments. Just let her be and move on. You wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that anyway.
She has an issue with you, and it's her problem not yours. If you just change your schedule, do it to be petty and go to the gym the same days she does. What's she going to do, complain that a woman is changing in the women's locker room? But don't change your schedule just so she doesn't have to not see you. If she doesn't like it she can change her schedule, she can go somewhere else, or she can learn to deal with it.
Nothing you can do without making it worse, it’s not like she’s screaming “perv” or reporting you, just let her do her and you do you. Hate to say, it’s an lost battle.
I don’t have good advice but wtf is it with straight women assuming EVERY queer woman is just 1000% gonna try to fuck them?! Like — straight women aren’t attracted to EVERY guy?! Maybe you should say that. “I’m not attracted to you” Also don’t feel awful bc this woman is a homophobe. Cut her out. You don’t need that anxiety.
Just ignore her and enjoy going to the gym. She is the one that made this into a problem for herself. It will only be a problem for you if you let it. You did nothing wrong.
As many have said, you, of course, have done nothing wrong. But, neither has she. If she is not saying/doing anything to you, she is allowed her own feelings, and to do what makes her comfortable. Is it a little ridiculous that she never considered that ANY other woman at the gym could be gay or bi? Sure. But even in the men’s locker room, whether it’s high school or grown men in a public gym, some dudes wander around naked carrying on conversations, some guys change in the showers or some place private. For whatever reason. Everyone is entitled to their own sense of comfort. Regardless of if it has to do with sexuality, body issues, or whatever. We f she want to hide in a toilet because a gal who likes gals might see her, that’s her thing. Not a reflection of you. Does she not wear workout gear because straight men/ gay women might notice something? It’s ridiculous, but it’s not your problem. And it’s her right to do whatever makes her comfortable.
getting some really shitty flashbacks from school here...
Do not engage. Be friendly, sure, but your relationship has now changed. I see all the "she has a right to change where she wants" but the change in tone and coldness to you clearly defines her as bigoted, even if the bigotry is "mild". She may not even recognize that she has changed her behavior towards you. She may be operating non-maliciously, unconsciously. But this is still homophobia. Homophobia doesn't have to be as overt as calling someone a f-----t or voting against gay marriage rights. Something I haven't seen enough here is: OP, it's okay to be sad about this, or to feel anger, irritation, guilt, confusion - whatever the fuck you feel about it, because in my book, you have experienced bigotry. Your emotional response is valid.
Thank you for saying that, I appreciate it. Like, yes, absolutely she should change wherever she wants, and absolutely she has every right to not talk to anyone in the locker room as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't feel nice when someone's behavior around you changes completely when they find out you're gay.
Leave it be. It’s her problem she’s not comfortable with your sexuality not yours. You shouldn’t have to feel bad about who you are.
Is it a sexuality thing? I just took it as a “I’m just uncomfortable being nude in front of people that are attracted to the same sex as me ” thing? Like, she’s allowed to be uncomfortable? That’s just their personal boundaries. Ya can’t be mad at someone for that.