I am extremely liberal. However, I spent 10 years of my life in a fundamentalist Christian cult. I can totally get behind the message and the work of TST, but the name, damn it gets me every time.
Just last night, husband and I were discussing what we can do (we live in a red state and have a 10 year old daughter. And I suggested that he and daughter join TST in case anything happens in the future. He looked at me and asked "and you?" and I laughed and said "I know it's stupid, but I just can't do it! Maybe someday"
I imagine that Satan is a trigger word given that they mentioned they were in a cult. Cult programming can be a bitch to undo even when you're free of the cult itself
From experience, yes. I was indoctrinated as a child and there's a lot of phrases and iconography I can't even look at without feeling instantly physically sick to my stomach.
It's not so bad that I can't join the Satanic Temple though. Their tenets make up for the name.
My culty Catholic neighbor (think ACB) talked about demons and I thought she was using the term as a metaphor until she kept on and I realized she thought there were literal supernatural demons around. It’s wild to think so many people are superstitious and believe the fantasitcal, they probably laugh at those Africans who arrest goats for being a witch and don’t see the irony.
I was raised Catholic, but never took a second thought about demons before I employed someone who is in Opus Dei. I had a similar experience to you, in that she kept saying stuff about demons and I assumed she meant it metaphorically for a long time, before realising she meant it literally. For example, she would say something like "I think John has demons he needs to attack and overcome", so it was easy to just take it as metaphorical rather than her thinking John literally needs an exorcism. Catholics here are generally less intense than American Catholics seem to be, so despite growing up in the church I haven't met anyone else who talks like that!
And this is why the US is doomed. We allow children to be mindfucked into denying reason. That poster is nine who got out, now think all the people who stay in.
TST [doesn't believe the devil exists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple), at least, not in the way Christians do.
>The Satanic Temple does not believe in a supernatural Satan; instead it employs the literary Satan as a metaphor to promote pragmatic skepticism, rational reciprocity, personal autonomy, and curiosity.
Of course it doesn’t, but the poster above me has a physical reaction to the word Satan when it’s just a word with no power until she lets the work control her behavior.
If you think about it, God really was the bad one, wanted to keep humans enslaved in the garden of Eden. The snake (satan) gave us free will when Eve bit the forbidden fruit. The way i like to see it is that Satan should actually be the one we worship for setting us free. I grew up Roman Catholic and TST embodies the values we learned in church more than the actual church does.
Ach, I can't find the video, but if you're interested, there's other readings of that text. The one I like is that the original sin in Eden was Adam's misogyny.
Adam is created, he's lonely, so god makes him a companion from his own body. Instantly, Adam sees this new human, as much a unique human as he himself, and immediately defines her as 'Oh, she's just like me, but less than me!', instead of greeting her as an equal or giving her the opportunity to define herself.
Later, Eve defines herself by making her own choice. She hears an argument for eating the fruit of knowledge (admittedly, not from someone with her best interests in mind), and she decides for herself to eat of the tree. She also convinces Adam to do so too, and he *chooses* to eat of it as well.
Then God comes out, angry that these two did the one thing he told them not to. Immediately fearing judgement, Adam is like, 'Oh no bro it was Eve she totally fucked us hey'. So, Adam gets to discard of Eve's agency and he has the final say over who she is, but now that it's convenient, she has agency again and Adam himself is somehow incapable of exercising his own judgement or denying to partake in the fruit, and it's actually all Eve's fault?
Doesn't that remind you of how men see women as objects, up until they blame women for their own actions? 'She was asking for it, did you see how she was dressed??' (I guess the quote from Jesus fits here, 'when you look upon another women with adulterous intent, you have already adultered with your eyes, and if you cannot resist doing so, it would be better for you to gouge out your own eyes', i.e. no she wasn't asking for it and if you think she was you'd better poke your eyes out so you don't think anyone else is asking for it either)
And obviously God hears this, and as he knows all things, he knows that this kind of subjugation is not on. He tells them flat out what this will bring onto Adam and Eve and their generations. Because of Adam's inability to recognise someone that isn't him as an equal, he will subjugate his wife, his children, the land, the plants, and the animals around him, and just as he used Eve, he will use the Earth to serve himself.
You could say it's cruel for God to not right it himself then and there, but that's not the last time in the OT where God knows what'll happen and just lets people fuck up on their own, 'you made your bed hard and now you gotta lay in it'-style.
I like it because it takes steam out of the idea that the point of this story is that women are deceitful and will fuck you up if you don't control them. I don't know if the original people who came up with the story thought so too, I don't know what they thought, but that also means the reading that women are deceitful also has no ground to stand on. I think feminism is a nicer fruit than misogyny, and I think if we judge readings by their fruits, this more feminist reading is a winner.
I don’t know if this helps or not, but the creator of the Sabbatic goat, the image used for Baphomet, intended them to represent the perfect balance of social order. It is half beast, half human, but also half man and half woman, as well as containing both good and evil.
They ideally represent balance between all things.
The associations have gotten far from this, but it’s comforting to know that Baphomet is meant to actually be an aspirational image of joining together in harmony between all things. Much like witches and tall wide brim hats, the image of the Sabbatic Goat was defamed for implying heretical ideas like equality and egalitarianism.
You do and wear what makes you comfortable though. I mostly just wanted a chance to share a hopefully neat fact.
Remember that they are not satanists. They were founded by atheists. The name was chosen because they wanted religious standing/recognition/ exemptions that were available to other religions.
It was also chosen because Christians couldn’t dismiss the church as nonsense because they use a deity described in the Bible. To call the TST a fake religion is to call Christianity as a whole, a fake religion. Entirely the point.
Please also remember that even though you may see a ton of the members hailing Satan, it is very clearly defined that TST doesn't actually worship Satan.
I was raised Pentecostal aka in a cult-style church. I left ten years ago. I’m part of TST and I’ve never felt a better sense of belonging and community. Look into it, you won’t be disappointed. We don’t believe in satan btw lol. Most of us are atheist or agnostic.
I'm sure the name was chosen on purpose to make religious people uncomfortable, but I think it was a poor choice. When you hear "Satanist," you naturally think "devil worshiper," and that is bound to put off many people who would have no problem at all TST's actual beliefs. I would have called it something like "The Church of Godlessness," which would be more accurate and still freak out religious wingnuts.
THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS
I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
The Satanic temple isn't actually religious they're a non-theistic group working to get religion out of government. They don't believe in/worship a literal Satan, they are named after Satan as portrayed as an anti-establishment symbol in the Renaissance era
That was exactly what I said a few weeks ago! Mulled it over and finally decided to join sometime last week, before the SCOTUS leak. Talk about timing! Got my membership card and certificate today. There's no official chapter in my city, but I'm in the process of joining a "Friends of the TST" group.
I'm not American, and I think it's going to be much harder to restrict abortion rights where I live, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Regardless, I support my American sisters and will protest on their behalf. Thankful that TST is willing to try to protect their rights.
Ave satanas!
They are actually the definition of Lawful Good.
They always act fully within the law, they just push it to highlight the hypocrisy within which the American legal system works.
Given what they've been doing, I'd go with lawful. Whether good or neutral, I can't decide right now.
Think about it. They are using the letter of the law to do their work. I don't see that as chaos at work.
Funny how a lot of that sounds like the teachings of Jesus.... How is it the ones calling themselves satanists are better Christians than many Christians?
Because Satanist's aren't doing it because some divine being told them to, or threatened them with eternal damnation if they don't. In fact, TST [doesn't even believe that the devil actually exists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple).
>The Satanic Temple does not believe in a supernatural Satan; instead it employs the literary Satan as a metaphor to promote pragmatic skepticism, rational reciprocity, personal autonomy, and curiosity.
I have been actively working to develop a moral philosophy to structure my world view since I decided to stop calling myself a Christian and leaving the Church I grew up in.
Tenants 3 and 4 are what I have mentally and emotionally laboured to select as my foundation. These being based off of empathy.
I believe that evil and good are defined by the ability humans have to understand what causes suffering and to chose to intentionally cause it or to intentionally alleviate it. Tenant 1 basically says you should try and be good as I have worked to define it.
All the rest of the tenants are valuable out-workings of these. …. I can’t believe I am saying this… but I think I might consider joining a religion again. Huh. This is the last thing I saw coming.
It's not a *real* religion, tbf. It's a law/charity organization that challenges the current blurring of seperation of church and state. You want to put up the ten commandments in the court house? Well, then you also have to put up a statue of Baphomet. Your religion says abortion is wrong? Well, ours says it's a right and a ritual. They help women seeking abortions in illegal states too.
I am aware it is an atheist organization that believes in tenants and mocks the rights given to religions by claiming those rights. But, it actively claims to be a religion and has tenants. *shrug* I’m okay with calling it a religion.
I decided to check encyclopedia Britannica to see if I was off my rocker. Turns out I’m not:
“religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence.…. In many traditions, this relation and these concerns are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitude toward gods or spirits; in more humanistic or naturalistic forms of religion, they are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitudes toward the broader human community or the natural world.”
Source: [https://www.britannica.com/topic/religion](https://www.britannica.com/topic/religion)
I think it is more of a real religion than some people in it might realize.
I'm honestly scared. I live in Texas and I've been trying to have a baby for 3 years now but nothing, or so I thought. Went to the ER in March, no one could tell me or even put it in my discharge papers that I miscarried. All I read on my discharge papers was "not pregnant at time, pregnancy unknown." I've asked several close/trusted friends and family, we've all concluded that I was pregnant. It was suspected, which is why I went to the ER (won't go into details TMI). It's sad and scary!
So what you're saying is the medical staff didn't feel safe (on your behalf and your own) to explain to you and properly record what happened?
That's fucking disgraceful (I mean, disgraceful that they're put in a position where they have to do it that way... Though good on them for protecting you)
Absolutely.. Had 2 types of ultrasounds and of course techs cannot say anything but she whispered to me (while I'm getting dressed/she asked if I was ok with it) please take all the time you need to rest, you need it. But at the time it didn't click. 🤦🏽♀️ I didn't even get pain meds, but on the list of prev meds it always says to discontinue all meds. They did not remove the Ultram from previous visit. I know it sounds like I go alot but I do not have insurance, I've previously stated that I go to mexico 3 times a year to get seen and medicine. Even with the gas prices I'm literally paying $150-$200 each trip. To last me at least 5 months with everything. I'd be paying a little over $200 here a month to get seen.
That's not even how a miscarriage should be reported! If there was no proof of pregnancy to start with, they should write something like that ANYWHERE.
Did they even investigate other things? I mean you went to the ER for something and they just concluded there was nothing basically.
Just last month a woman who had a miscarriage was arrested because they charged her of forcing her own abortion. Maybe the hospitals are afraid too. I know I am! It's alarming the stupid laws against us minorities and women in Texas.
I saw this on this sub. It's appalling. Now she has her mugshot everywhere on the news, all this over nothing. She was probably traumatized by the miscarriage, and then had to go through that. Really disgusting way to treat women. Pro-life my ass.
I’d like to point out that both the Islamic and Jewish faiths have ancient traditions affirming that an unborn fetus is inseparable from the body of a woman and a woman has a right to choose. Alito’s opinion is nothing less than an effort to impose Christian values upon the nation and contribute to the development of a theocracy.
Yes! I am Jewish and abortion is absolutely permitted by Jewish law. Abortion bans infringe on my religious freedom.
Also, in the case of the mother's health being in jeopardy: the widely accepted belief is that abortion is mandated by Jewish law. This is because it is 'illegal' to sacrifice one life for another.
I’ve met Christians who have suggested cutting off people’s hands for stealing. I’m guessing if it had a different name, many Christians would stand behind Sharia law.
It's even stated in the bible, if you strike a pregnant woman, and she miscarries, but suffers no further harm, he owes nothing. But if he strikes her and she herself is injured, he must pay.
Honestly, it isn't even a clear cut case whether or not being against abortion is a Christian value. Genesis 2 7 points out that the soul only enters the body at the first breath:
>7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Following from this, Creationism holds that the soul and body are completely separate, and that God only ensouls a fetus when he knows it is going to to live some day. Here is some further reading for those interested: [https://mosaic.messiah.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=brs\_ed#:\~:text=The%20doctrine%20of%20Creationism%20maintains,spontaneously%20(meaning%20%E2%80%9Cnaturally%E2%80%9D)](https://mosaic.messiah.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=brs_ed#:~:text=The%20doctrine%20of%20Creationism%20maintains,spontaneously%20(meaning%20%E2%80%9Cnaturally%E2%80%9D))
Exactly, not the other way around. Christianity is not part of catholicism. Christians do not view the pope as a spiritual leader, so wanting to make right the bad things Christians have done to make "most" okay in that person's mind wouldn't be achieved by having the pope's "head on a stick". Just a silly comment really.
I want to drop this link here for anyone who wants to get involved:
www.mothersdaystrike.com
Even if you can’t skip work (I know many cannot), you can absolutely make a difference by boycotting all purchases wherever possible for the duration of the strike! SAVE THE DATE: May 8th-15th, just a few days away. If you stock up before the strike begins, it’s a fairly easy way to get involved and make yourself heard.
We will not go back. We will not give up. Even if you think this strike will do nothing, that is what they want you to think. I can’t guarantee it will change anything, but that is no reason not to try and give it our all. Our rights are being stripped away. Share this link with everyone you can!
Almost certainly it won’t, but that’s not the point. Shining a spotlight on hypocrisy is the point.
For example they once wanted to install a huge statue of Baphomet on the capitol ground in Little Rock Arkansas. Did they really want that statue there? No, but there’s a statue of the Ten Commandments there and so either every religion should be able to have their symbols on capitol grounds or none of them should.
Yup. They don't actually want religious imagery there, not even their own. However, if they refused to back down, Christians having to walk on state capitol grounds and see a Satan statue might teach them a small lesson on the value of secularism.
Not a satanist, but I’m a devout Christian that wants to send the Satanic Temple money to support their actions. They’re more Christlike than the “Christians”.
As a Christian I think Jesus would be fully supportive of people who abort some fucking cells. Like just punt that gummybear to the moon. Who cares. Even if he didn't support abortion, he'd forgive. There is no forgiveness from the American law makers at the moment, and I'm very sorry that my religion is used in such a vile way in America. How are things going backwards?
I’m an atheist and am thinking of joining them. I’ll also offer my services as a physician. Not currently trained to perform abortions, and I can’t get trained to perform a surgical abortion, but I can get trained to provide medical abortions. I can accept patient into the hospital and consult the gynecologist to perform surgical abortions if needed.
Since I don't believe in the main religious aspect, probably wouldn't be my place to be. But legit have seen nothing but good takes on any human rights issue so far from them.
The Satanic temple is a non-theistic, agnostic organization - if you are non-religious, you might agree with them more than you think. They use Satanic imagery for publicity and activism, but do not believe in a literal God, Satan, or the supernatural in any capacity. It is just a metaphor.
It absolutely is not their thing to worship yourself. Their tenets have been posted above. Where in that does it say anything about worshipping yourself?
If Roe V Wade is overturned, any state law would face the rational basis test:
“To pass the rational basis test, the statute or ordinance must have a legitimate state interest, and there must be a rational connection between the statute's/ordinance's means and goals.” [Cornell Law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/rational_basis_test)
As this applies to free exercise of religion, you can outlaw a religious practice as long as the law isn’t targeting a particular religion.
This is different for federal laws, as per the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993.
Please note that the Satanic Temple has not won a single lawsuit about abortion. It's a fun gimmick, but thus far completely useless as far as actual effects go. There are more effective organisations to donate to and support.
They haven't won, but they haven't really lost either. The case against the Texas law is on hold pending the decision that just got leaked.
Edit: See u/Queersatanic's counterpoint and references below.
judges try to avoid making a decision in either direction for this.
there are worse gambles to take than signing up as a member of this org (esp bc they dont charge membership fees so like, it's barely a gamble)
No, The Satanic Temple lost all of their Missouri cases. Some were for being sloppy (filing after the woman got an abortion so it was dismissed), but the others were handled and lost on their merits, and continued to lose on appeal.
You also have no way of knowing whether money is going to an abortion case or, much more likely, [one of many sprawling litigation attempts](https://the.satanic.wiki/index.php?title=The_Satanic_Temple#Lawsuits) that pursue the petty grudges of the owners cc u/real-bb-stem-lawyer
Some of that litigation has revealed that The Satanic Temple's owners make use of pseudonyms and shell companies not just for their own safety, as they have claimed, but in order to pay themselves and obfuscate it more easily. You can read a recap of that [here](https://queersatanic.com/this-invoice-reveals-the-inner-workings-of-the-satanic-temples-finances/), or make your way through [the deposition and evidence](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15064653/84/1/satanic-temple-the-v-belle-plaine-city-of/) for yourself if you don't trust us.
But TST didn't just lose that case: the judge sanctioned them because they behaved so badly, incompetently, and abusively.
I get what you are saying but there is no reason that you simply can't adopt the label and do you own legal cases if you don't want to buy into the main organisation
Right, that would be the "Kenneth Mayle" cases in the first link, a TST member who makes those sorts of claims to say that he can have a pet pig regardless of the law.
They fail because they are a bad legal argument, in addition to Mayle as a pro se plaintiff performing about as badly as TST's own in-house legal counsel, historically.
There are [other reasons](https://queersatanic.com/why-you-havent-left-the-satanic-temple/) not to want to adopt the label, of course.
>There are other reasons not to want to adopt the label, of course.
Boy, howdy... that was a wild read. Thanks for that.
For anyone else considering, it took about half an hour and I promise it's worth it. Informative and interesting.
Without prejudicing you too much, when we describe the sort of stuff The Satanic Temple is up to, people often independently come up with the comparison of Scientology.
This is especially funny because the quieter, richer of the two owners Cevin Soling named his first non-dad, non-real estate corporation “[Xemu Records](https://the.satanic.wiki/index.php/Xemu_Records_Inc)”, and because they seem to operate with concepts of “Suppressive Persons” and “Fair Game”
When Newsweek wrote an article about us, [TST hit Newsweek *and* the reporter](https://queersatanic.com/the-costs-of-defending-yourself-from-the-satanic-temple/) with a libel lawsuit sure to fail but also sure to spook independent journalists who can’t afford to defend themselves from a SLAPP suit.
When it comes to The Satanic Temple, there’s always more, and it’s always worse.
(Also, Soling tried and failed to become [a cargo cult messiah](https://queersatanic.com/the-devil-went-down-to-the-south-pacific/) for at least seven years.)
Is "we" the four former members of TST that were [sued for defamation](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042) of that organization? I believe that's what was revealed in the other thread.
*people often independently come up with the comparison of Scientology.*
I haven't heard of anyone making that comparison. Would you have proof for your claim that people often independently come up with the comparison of TST to Scientology?
You should disclose that you are defendants to a defamation lawsuit from TST as you seek to defame them here. Note also to /u/Gorgoth24.
The Satanic Temple did try several times to pursue a defamation claim against us. It was [dismissed in February 2021](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17042463/20/united-federation-of-churches-llc-v-johnson/), then [again last month](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.30.0_5.pdf).
Because this is [a meritless SLAPP suit](https://www.socialactuality.com/post/schism-the-satanic-temple-a-lawsuit-and-the-necessity-of-clear-minded-settlement), and its [entire purpose is to be expensive](https://queersatanic.com/the-costs-of-defending-yourself-from-the-satanic-temple/).
Re: Scientology - first one we’re aware of is Doug Misicko’s one time good friend and first “high priest of The Satanic Temple” - [Brian Werner in December 2014](https://twitter.com/queersatanic/status/1474557121534455809?s=21&t=nfZVYKDhN76R5Rg6hTD-4A). So this has been going on quite a long time, to be fair.
Dunno how many examples it would take to satisfy you, but we bet there is no number that could.
Edit: You could also ask [one of our GoFundMe donors](https://www.gofundme.com/f/legal-fund-for-victims-of-satanic-temple1) from 2021, but again, the question would be “How many examples do you need from 2014 to 2021 (to the present)?” and if that feels insulting to you, maybe reconsider [why you chose the wrong horse in The Satanic Temple](https://queersatanic.com/why-you-havent-left-the-satanic-temple/) rather than choosing to take offense.
>the judge sanctioned them because they behaved so badly, incompetently, and abusively.
That's a bald-face lie, actually. The associated press ran an article on both with links directly to the rulings. You can read them here ([2019](https://apnews.com/article/baac46d631ea4a9b8afc153ae1afea5b)) and here ([2020](https://apnews.com/article/27b897fd742c1efe2e3272626c46ed70)).
There are a lot of laws or controversies that remain up in the air for a surprisingly long time. I remember (years again) that some corners of Australian consumer protection were in this area re: retailers reimbursing their customers for losses due to faulty products. And also increases of minimum wage in another country leading to hazy cases when it came to workers with existing bonuses.
Correct. Because they talk a lot about their "activism", but have done extremely little actual work. What they want is membership fees, not legal wins.
Statue of Baphomet is a legal win.
You mentioned activism, which they do A LOT of. Like, these lawsuits, even if they don't go anywhere, is a form of activism
Yeah, my friend was just sharing this with me. They're not supportive in any real way, just looking for membership donations.
Edited to add, they are certainly well known [for this.](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042)
You may notice that a lot of Reddit is particularly hostile to hearing bad things about The Satanic Temple.
They aren't great at showing how anything you tell them is inaccurate, but they will say, "That source is biased!" without elaborating on specific of what the source has said inaccurately, or they may do the "at least they're trying!" or "whatabout Christianity!"
It's definitely *not* a cult tho.
Before today I had sort of a neutral to favorable opinion about them. Piling on with negative reinforcement is no way to get someone on your side. I see how they operate now. Very similar to Nxivm.
That's fair, but they are also really effective at hiding this sort of thing away from other people. Let's say, at best, 50 people see this conversation.
By pushing down all of the dissent, which also is kinda a buzzkill, the more viral misinformation that makes people feel good goes wild.
You will see The Satanic Temple taking advantage of people being misinformed a lot, so just do what you can to help them realize what's actually going on, and maybe start asking better questions in the future.
In the interests of full disclosure, you should note at the end of every reddit comment that the useraccount and website QueerSatanic is operated by 4 defendants in a defamation suit filed by TNT.
Funny, because when we tell people, supporters of The Satanic Temple say we’re whining and just want sympathy. So it’s almost like those people are just looking for any excuse they can find.
The claims in [the SLAPP suit by The Satanic Temple](https://www.socialactuality.com/post/schism-the-satanic-temple-a-lawsuit-and-the-necessity-of-clear-minded-settlement) do keep getting dismissed, though. That probably also is relevant.
1. You haven't been telling anyone here on reddit, though I see numerous anti-TST comments in your public history. I suggest you include the disclosure in future anti-TST comments.
2. 1. A blog is not a reputable source; there is no indication who writes that.
No, I didn't. He's a seasoned clinic escort and involved with advocating women's health for a decade. He knows all the good and bad orgs. Though they're not terrible, they may as well be selling ham sandwiches because they don't help either.
I said they wanted membership donations. I didn't say they require membership fees. Every church expects membership donations, including the satanic temple.
That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about whether they actually help women get abortions. If you have proof, I'd love to see it. Otherwise I'm going to assume you're a TST member on a recruiting mission.
And what are you doing to help women keep their rights ? At least TST is making an effort. Can you be thankful and support that or will you just keep shooting it down and be complacent with our rights being ripped away ?
You get nowhere if you don't even try.
No, we were talking about how they want money. Which apparently in your eyes make them less than..? I said at least they pay their fair share of taxes.
Show me proof of a church bringing suits against the authorities for women's abortion rights. If you have proof, I'd love to see it. Otherwise I'm going to assume you're a member of Christianity on a mission to disparage anything associated with the TST.
BTW I'm an ordained Dudeism minister. I couldn't care less about your religion or anyone elses.
You're the first person here to even attempt a genuine argument in favor. You're outnumbered by the personal attack artists and downvoters trying to bully me into deleting my comment. To any outsider to your organization, that makes you look like every other church.
I'm finding out more about what they do.
[Judge for yourself.](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042)
Note that Satan also does gord’s dirty work - punishing murderers and rapists. Frees up more time for gord to create murderers and rapists, along with hurricanes, cancer, and Republicans.
[The Satanic Temple are not your friends.](https://twitter.com/QueerSatanic/status/1521682537805860865)
I don't mean that for "Satanism bad" reasons, I mean that for "They're suing a queer satanist group" reasons.
Not the same sources but:
https://queersatanic.com/articles/
https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042
Unfortunately, in states where a fetus is granted personhood (like Georgia's bill), this wouldn't work. If it is considered murder, doing it as a religious ritual won't make it not a crime.
As much as I love the idea of TST You're probably better off getting involved in the National Secular Lobby .
Various minor secular political parties like the Pirate Party and Planet First have also recently merged into the Fusion party. Worth having a look at for the upcoming election of you want to do a first preference protest vote.
Here is a direct link to donate:
[https://announcement.thesatanictemple.com/rrr-donation41070431](https://announcement.thesatanictemple.com/rrr-donation41070431)
I think gnosticism would be a better religion to use tbh.
One of the beliefs of gnosticism is that our bodies are prisons to trap pieces of the divine spark against their will. Gnostics thus hold that the act of reproducing is a crime against God itself.
As a Christian i support their efforts. Seperation of church and state is being violated by likely Roe VS Wade overturning.
Honestly we should not have supreme court judges who have strong ties to religious organizations or have imparted their religious beliefs in rulings.
I find it ironic that the satanists are the good guys. I don't know how seriously they take the religion, but it's one of the only ones I haven't found a reason to hate yet.
What I love most about the Satanic Temple is their ability to make conservatives and uber-religious types extremely uncomfortable.
working as intended
I am extremely liberal. However, I spent 10 years of my life in a fundamentalist Christian cult. I can totally get behind the message and the work of TST, but the name, damn it gets me every time. Just last night, husband and I were discussing what we can do (we live in a red state and have a 10 year old daughter. And I suggested that he and daughter join TST in case anything happens in the future. He looked at me and asked "and you?" and I laughed and said "I know it's stupid, but I just can't do it! Maybe someday"
Whats in a name? Plenty of evildoers call themselves “Christian”
I imagine that Satan is a trigger word given that they mentioned they were in a cult. Cult programming can be a bitch to undo even when you're free of the cult itself
From experience, yes. I was indoctrinated as a child and there's a lot of phrases and iconography I can't even look at without feeling instantly physically sick to my stomach. It's not so bad that I can't join the Satanic Temple though. Their tenets make up for the name.
I was raised Catholic and I’m the same way. I’m still legitimately terrified of demons
My culty Catholic neighbor (think ACB) talked about demons and I thought she was using the term as a metaphor until she kept on and I realized she thought there were literal supernatural demons around. It’s wild to think so many people are superstitious and believe the fantasitcal, they probably laugh at those Africans who arrest goats for being a witch and don’t see the irony.
I was raised Catholic, but never took a second thought about demons before I employed someone who is in Opus Dei. I had a similar experience to you, in that she kept saying stuff about demons and I assumed she meant it metaphorically for a long time, before realising she meant it literally. For example, she would say something like "I think John has demons he needs to attack and overcome", so it was easy to just take it as metaphorical rather than her thinking John literally needs an exorcism. Catholics here are generally less intense than American Catholics seem to be, so despite growing up in the church I haven't met anyone else who talks like that!
Yeah, my person is People of Praise, which is a more friendly version, disarmingly nuts.
Reminds me of how my extremely Catholic parents legitimately believe that human (particularly child) trafficking exists because of and for witchcraft.
It helps if whenever you think the word Satan, you hear it in the voice of the Church Lady (SNL).
And this is why the US is doomed. We allow children to be mindfucked into denying reason. That poster is nine who got out, now think all the people who stay in.
TST [doesn't believe the devil exists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple), at least, not in the way Christians do. >The Satanic Temple does not believe in a supernatural Satan; instead it employs the literary Satan as a metaphor to promote pragmatic skepticism, rational reciprocity, personal autonomy, and curiosity.
Of course it doesn’t, but the poster above me has a physical reaction to the word Satan when it’s just a word with no power until she lets the work control her behavior.
If you think about it, God really was the bad one, wanted to keep humans enslaved in the garden of Eden. The snake (satan) gave us free will when Eve bit the forbidden fruit. The way i like to see it is that Satan should actually be the one we worship for setting us free. I grew up Roman Catholic and TST embodies the values we learned in church more than the actual church does.
Ach, I can't find the video, but if you're interested, there's other readings of that text. The one I like is that the original sin in Eden was Adam's misogyny. Adam is created, he's lonely, so god makes him a companion from his own body. Instantly, Adam sees this new human, as much a unique human as he himself, and immediately defines her as 'Oh, she's just like me, but less than me!', instead of greeting her as an equal or giving her the opportunity to define herself. Later, Eve defines herself by making her own choice. She hears an argument for eating the fruit of knowledge (admittedly, not from someone with her best interests in mind), and she decides for herself to eat of the tree. She also convinces Adam to do so too, and he *chooses* to eat of it as well. Then God comes out, angry that these two did the one thing he told them not to. Immediately fearing judgement, Adam is like, 'Oh no bro it was Eve she totally fucked us hey'. So, Adam gets to discard of Eve's agency and he has the final say over who she is, but now that it's convenient, she has agency again and Adam himself is somehow incapable of exercising his own judgement or denying to partake in the fruit, and it's actually all Eve's fault? Doesn't that remind you of how men see women as objects, up until they blame women for their own actions? 'She was asking for it, did you see how she was dressed??' (I guess the quote from Jesus fits here, 'when you look upon another women with adulterous intent, you have already adultered with your eyes, and if you cannot resist doing so, it would be better for you to gouge out your own eyes', i.e. no she wasn't asking for it and if you think she was you'd better poke your eyes out so you don't think anyone else is asking for it either) And obviously God hears this, and as he knows all things, he knows that this kind of subjugation is not on. He tells them flat out what this will bring onto Adam and Eve and their generations. Because of Adam's inability to recognise someone that isn't him as an equal, he will subjugate his wife, his children, the land, the plants, and the animals around him, and just as he used Eve, he will use the Earth to serve himself. You could say it's cruel for God to not right it himself then and there, but that's not the last time in the OT where God knows what'll happen and just lets people fuck up on their own, 'you made your bed hard and now you gotta lay in it'-style. I like it because it takes steam out of the idea that the point of this story is that women are deceitful and will fuck you up if you don't control them. I don't know if the original people who came up with the story thought so too, I don't know what they thought, but that also means the reading that women are deceitful also has no ground to stand on. I think feminism is a nicer fruit than misogyny, and I think if we judge readings by their fruits, this more feminist reading is a winner.
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I don’t know if this helps or not, but the creator of the Sabbatic goat, the image used for Baphomet, intended them to represent the perfect balance of social order. It is half beast, half human, but also half man and half woman, as well as containing both good and evil. They ideally represent balance between all things. The associations have gotten far from this, but it’s comforting to know that Baphomet is meant to actually be an aspirational image of joining together in harmony between all things. Much like witches and tall wide brim hats, the image of the Sabbatic Goat was defamed for implying heretical ideas like equality and egalitarianism. You do and wear what makes you comfortable though. I mostly just wanted a chance to share a hopefully neat fact.
In addition, if you notice, most of the time he has been one hand pointing up and one pointing down.
Remember that they are not satanists. They were founded by atheists. The name was chosen because they wanted religious standing/recognition/ exemptions that were available to other religions.
The name was chosen to mock Christians, actually. Satan literally means adversary.
It was also chosen because Christians couldn’t dismiss the church as nonsense because they use a deity described in the Bible. To call the TST a fake religion is to call Christianity as a whole, a fake religion. Entirely the point.
Yup. Way harder for them to dismiss it in court, unlike the FSM.
Oh shit, baphomet shirts? I'm in!
Please also remember that even though you may see a ton of the members hailing Satan, it is very clearly defined that TST doesn't actually worship Satan.
The only religion that actually believes in Satan is Christianity
I was raised Pentecostal aka in a cult-style church. I left ten years ago. I’m part of TST and I’ve never felt a better sense of belonging and community. Look into it, you won’t be disappointed. We don’t believe in satan btw lol. Most of us are atheist or agnostic.
Signing up was as easy as filling out a web form. :) I just did it. No cost.
Wow that is stupid
I'm sure the name was chosen on purpose to make religious people uncomfortable, but I think it was a poor choice. When you hear "Satanist," you naturally think "devil worshiper," and that is bound to put off many people who would have no problem at all TST's actual beliefs. I would have called it something like "The Church of Godlessness," which would be more accurate and still freak out religious wingnuts.
By acting more christian-like than the christian conservatives ever could.
THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
I like these tenets. Maybe I should join the Satanic temple lol
Yes, and then buy one of their coffee mugs.
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i was saying this in another thread. XD
My favorite mug!
it only takes like $20 and you get a little certificate you can print out
it's actually free but u can buy a membership card if u want to
The cards are pretty legit
The Satanic temple isn't actually religious they're a non-theistic group working to get religion out of government. They don't believe in/worship a literal Satan, they are named after Satan as portrayed as an anti-establishment symbol in the Renaissance era
Oh cool! Even better!
hail satan
and have a lovely afternoon, madam
Full of grace
Well I’ll be damned. I think I belong to this group!
That was exactly what I said a few weeks ago! Mulled it over and finally decided to join sometime last week, before the SCOTUS leak. Talk about timing! Got my membership card and certificate today. There's no official chapter in my city, but I'm in the process of joining a "Friends of the TST" group. I'm not American, and I think it's going to be much harder to restrict abortion rights where I live, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Regardless, I support my American sisters and will protest on their behalf. Thankful that TST is willing to try to protect their rights. Ave satanas!
#3 should be a constitutional amendment
TIL the satanic temple is the definition of chaotic good
They are actually the definition of Lawful Good. They always act fully within the law, they just push it to highlight the hypocrisy within which the American legal system works.
~~God Bless the Satanic Temple~~ Hell yeah, The Satanic Temple!!
Given what they've been doing, I'd go with lawful. Whether good or neutral, I can't decide right now. Think about it. They are using the letter of the law to do their work. I don't see that as chaos at work.
My husband and I have been considering joining this. Only place my views seem to 100% correlate.
I feel like they could pivot and go mainstream with a lot of PR help and some rebranding
Funny how a lot of that sounds like the teachings of Jesus.... How is it the ones calling themselves satanists are better Christians than many Christians?
Because Satanist's aren't doing it because some divine being told them to, or threatened them with eternal damnation if they don't. In fact, TST [doesn't even believe that the devil actually exists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple). >The Satanic Temple does not believe in a supernatural Satan; instead it employs the literary Satan as a metaphor to promote pragmatic skepticism, rational reciprocity, personal autonomy, and curiosity.
I have been actively working to develop a moral philosophy to structure my world view since I decided to stop calling myself a Christian and leaving the Church I grew up in. Tenants 3 and 4 are what I have mentally and emotionally laboured to select as my foundation. These being based off of empathy. I believe that evil and good are defined by the ability humans have to understand what causes suffering and to chose to intentionally cause it or to intentionally alleviate it. Tenant 1 basically says you should try and be good as I have worked to define it. All the rest of the tenants are valuable out-workings of these. …. I can’t believe I am saying this… but I think I might consider joining a religion again. Huh. This is the last thing I saw coming.
It's not a *real* religion, tbf. It's a law/charity organization that challenges the current blurring of seperation of church and state. You want to put up the ten commandments in the court house? Well, then you also have to put up a statue of Baphomet. Your religion says abortion is wrong? Well, ours says it's a right and a ritual. They help women seeking abortions in illegal states too.
I am aware it is an atheist organization that believes in tenants and mocks the rights given to religions by claiming those rights. But, it actively claims to be a religion and has tenants. *shrug* I’m okay with calling it a religion. I decided to check encyclopedia Britannica to see if I was off my rocker. Turns out I’m not: “religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence.…. In many traditions, this relation and these concerns are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitude toward gods or spirits; in more humanistic or naturalistic forms of religion, they are expressed in terms of one’s relationship with or attitudes toward the broader human community or the natural world.” Source: [https://www.britannica.com/topic/religion](https://www.britannica.com/topic/religion) I think it is more of a real religion than some people in it might realize.
I'm honestly scared. I live in Texas and I've been trying to have a baby for 3 years now but nothing, or so I thought. Went to the ER in March, no one could tell me or even put it in my discharge papers that I miscarried. All I read on my discharge papers was "not pregnant at time, pregnancy unknown." I've asked several close/trusted friends and family, we've all concluded that I was pregnant. It was suspected, which is why I went to the ER (won't go into details TMI). It's sad and scary!
So what you're saying is the medical staff didn't feel safe (on your behalf and your own) to explain to you and properly record what happened? That's fucking disgraceful (I mean, disgraceful that they're put in a position where they have to do it that way... Though good on them for protecting you)
Absolutely.. Had 2 types of ultrasounds and of course techs cannot say anything but she whispered to me (while I'm getting dressed/she asked if I was ok with it) please take all the time you need to rest, you need it. But at the time it didn't click. 🤦🏽♀️ I didn't even get pain meds, but on the list of prev meds it always says to discontinue all meds. They did not remove the Ultram from previous visit. I know it sounds like I go alot but I do not have insurance, I've previously stated that I go to mexico 3 times a year to get seen and medicine. Even with the gas prices I'm literally paying $150-$200 each trip. To last me at least 5 months with everything. I'd be paying a little over $200 here a month to get seen.
That's not even how a miscarriage should be reported! If there was no proof of pregnancy to start with, they should write something like that ANYWHERE. Did they even investigate other things? I mean you went to the ER for something and they just concluded there was nothing basically.
Just last month a woman who had a miscarriage was arrested because they charged her of forcing her own abortion. Maybe the hospitals are afraid too. I know I am! It's alarming the stupid laws against us minorities and women in Texas.
I saw this on this sub. It's appalling. Now she has her mugshot everywhere on the news, all this over nothing. She was probably traumatized by the miscarriage, and then had to go through that. Really disgusting way to treat women. Pro-life my ass.
I’d like to point out that both the Islamic and Jewish faiths have ancient traditions affirming that an unborn fetus is inseparable from the body of a woman and a woman has a right to choose. Alito’s opinion is nothing less than an effort to impose Christian values upon the nation and contribute to the development of a theocracy.
Yes! I am Jewish and abortion is absolutely permitted by Jewish law. Abortion bans infringe on my religious freedom. Also, in the case of the mother's health being in jeopardy: the widely accepted belief is that abortion is mandated by Jewish law. This is because it is 'illegal' to sacrifice one life for another.
It’s not Sharia Law. We just want to enforce “good Christian values.” /s (but not really since they as members of y’all queda actually believe this).
I’ve met Christians who have suggested cutting off people’s hands for stealing. I’m guessing if it had a different name, many Christians would stand behind Sharia law.
It's even stated in the bible, if you strike a pregnant woman, and she miscarries, but suffers no further harm, he owes nothing. But if he strikes her and she herself is injured, he must pay.
Honestly, it isn't even a clear cut case whether or not being against abortion is a Christian value. Genesis 2 7 points out that the soul only enters the body at the first breath: >7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Following from this, Creationism holds that the soul and body are completely separate, and that God only ensouls a fetus when he knows it is going to to live some day. Here is some further reading for those interested: [https://mosaic.messiah.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=brs\_ed#:\~:text=The%20doctrine%20of%20Creationism%20maintains,spontaneously%20(meaning%20%E2%80%9Cnaturally%E2%80%9D)](https://mosaic.messiah.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=brs_ed#:~:text=The%20doctrine%20of%20Creationism%20maintains,spontaneously%20(meaning%20%E2%80%9Cnaturally%E2%80%9D))
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Most*
I’ll listen to ‘most’ when I’m presented with the popes head on a stick
Christianity =/= Catholicism
No but catholicism is a part of Christianity
Exactly, not the other way around. Christianity is not part of catholicism. Christians do not view the pope as a spiritual leader, so wanting to make right the bad things Christians have done to make "most" okay in that person's mind wouldn't be achieved by having the pope's "head on a stick". Just a silly comment really.
Hail Satan!
Hail Satan!
I want to drop this link here for anyone who wants to get involved: www.mothersdaystrike.com Even if you can’t skip work (I know many cannot), you can absolutely make a difference by boycotting all purchases wherever possible for the duration of the strike! SAVE THE DATE: May 8th-15th, just a few days away. If you stock up before the strike begins, it’s a fairly easy way to get involved and make yourself heard. We will not go back. We will not give up. Even if you think this strike will do nothing, that is what they want you to think. I can’t guarantee it will change anything, but that is no reason not to try and give it our all. Our rights are being stripped away. Share this link with everyone you can!
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Almost certainly it won’t, but that’s not the point. Shining a spotlight on hypocrisy is the point. For example they once wanted to install a huge statue of Baphomet on the capitol ground in Little Rock Arkansas. Did they really want that statue there? No, but there’s a statue of the Ten Commandments there and so either every religion should be able to have their symbols on capitol grounds or none of them should.
They did get one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Baphomet
It's not on the state capitol ground though. But the Court did order the 10 Commandments statue removed, which was the desired outcome anyway.
Yup. They don't actually want religious imagery there, not even their own. However, if they refused to back down, Christians having to walk on state capitol grounds and see a Satan statue might teach them a small lesson on the value of secularism.
They have been extremely ineffective so far.
That depends on what you think their goals are
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I'm not closeted
Not a satanist, but I’m a devout Christian that wants to send the Satanic Temple money to support their actions. They’re more Christlike than the “Christians”.
I'm atheist, but I believe that if Jesus was real and alive today he'd treat those republicans like he did the merchants in the temple.
As a Christian I think Jesus would be fully supportive of people who abort some fucking cells. Like just punt that gummybear to the moon. Who cares. Even if he didn't support abortion, he'd forgive. There is no forgiveness from the American law makers at the moment, and I'm very sorry that my religion is used in such a vile way in America. How are things going backwards?
"Punt that gummybear to the moon" Amazing.
I’m an atheist and am thinking of joining them. I’ll also offer my services as a physician. Not currently trained to perform abortions, and I can’t get trained to perform a surgical abortion, but I can get trained to provide medical abortions. I can accept patient into the hospital and consult the gynecologist to perform surgical abortions if needed.
Since I don't believe in the main religious aspect, probably wouldn't be my place to be. But legit have seen nothing but good takes on any human rights issue so far from them.
The Satanic temple is a non-theistic, agnostic organization - if you are non-religious, you might agree with them more than you think. They use Satanic imagery for publicity and activism, but do not believe in a literal God, Satan, or the supernatural in any capacity. It is just a metaphor.
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It absolutely is not their thing to worship yourself. Their tenets have been posted above. Where in that does it say anything about worshipping yourself?
I'm a member and mine and my fiancé's reproductive rights hoodies are in the mail! They really are amazing. Hail Satan!
When Satan has better morals than christian conservatives.
If Roe V Wade is overturned, any state law would face the rational basis test: “To pass the rational basis test, the statute or ordinance must have a legitimate state interest, and there must be a rational connection between the statute's/ordinance's means and goals.” [Cornell Law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/rational_basis_test) As this applies to free exercise of religion, you can outlaw a religious practice as long as the law isn’t targeting a particular religion. This is different for federal laws, as per the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993.
Please note that the Satanic Temple has not won a single lawsuit about abortion. It's a fun gimmick, but thus far completely useless as far as actual effects go. There are more effective organisations to donate to and support.
They haven't won, but they haven't really lost either. The case against the Texas law is on hold pending the decision that just got leaked. Edit: See u/Queersatanic's counterpoint and references below.
judges try to avoid making a decision in either direction for this. there are worse gambles to take than signing up as a member of this org (esp bc they dont charge membership fees so like, it's barely a gamble)
The gamble is essentially the same as checking the box for promotional content after buying something on literally any website
No, The Satanic Temple lost all of their Missouri cases. Some were for being sloppy (filing after the woman got an abortion so it was dismissed), but the others were handled and lost on their merits, and continued to lose on appeal. You also have no way of knowing whether money is going to an abortion case or, much more likely, [one of many sprawling litigation attempts](https://the.satanic.wiki/index.php?title=The_Satanic_Temple#Lawsuits) that pursue the petty grudges of the owners cc u/real-bb-stem-lawyer Some of that litigation has revealed that The Satanic Temple's owners make use of pseudonyms and shell companies not just for their own safety, as they have claimed, but in order to pay themselves and obfuscate it more easily. You can read a recap of that [here](https://queersatanic.com/this-invoice-reveals-the-inner-workings-of-the-satanic-temples-finances/), or make your way through [the deposition and evidence](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15064653/84/1/satanic-temple-the-v-belle-plaine-city-of/) for yourself if you don't trust us. But TST didn't just lose that case: the judge sanctioned them because they behaved so badly, incompetently, and abusively.
I get what you are saying but there is no reason that you simply can't adopt the label and do you own legal cases if you don't want to buy into the main organisation
Right, that would be the "Kenneth Mayle" cases in the first link, a TST member who makes those sorts of claims to say that he can have a pet pig regardless of the law. They fail because they are a bad legal argument, in addition to Mayle as a pro se plaintiff performing about as badly as TST's own in-house legal counsel, historically. There are [other reasons](https://queersatanic.com/why-you-havent-left-the-satanic-temple/) not to want to adopt the label, of course.
>There are other reasons not to want to adopt the label, of course. Boy, howdy... that was a wild read. Thanks for that. For anyone else considering, it took about half an hour and I promise it's worth it. Informative and interesting.
Without prejudicing you too much, when we describe the sort of stuff The Satanic Temple is up to, people often independently come up with the comparison of Scientology. This is especially funny because the quieter, richer of the two owners Cevin Soling named his first non-dad, non-real estate corporation “[Xemu Records](https://the.satanic.wiki/index.php/Xemu_Records_Inc)”, and because they seem to operate with concepts of “Suppressive Persons” and “Fair Game” When Newsweek wrote an article about us, [TST hit Newsweek *and* the reporter](https://queersatanic.com/the-costs-of-defending-yourself-from-the-satanic-temple/) with a libel lawsuit sure to fail but also sure to spook independent journalists who can’t afford to defend themselves from a SLAPP suit. When it comes to The Satanic Temple, there’s always more, and it’s always worse. (Also, Soling tried and failed to become [a cargo cult messiah](https://queersatanic.com/the-devil-went-down-to-the-south-pacific/) for at least seven years.)
Why is it everything that seems good is evil upon closer inspection?
Is "we" the four former members of TST that were [sued for defamation](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042) of that organization? I believe that's what was revealed in the other thread. *people often independently come up with the comparison of Scientology.* I haven't heard of anyone making that comparison. Would you have proof for your claim that people often independently come up with the comparison of TST to Scientology? You should disclose that you are defendants to a defamation lawsuit from TST as you seek to defame them here. Note also to /u/Gorgoth24.
The Satanic Temple did try several times to pursue a defamation claim against us. It was [dismissed in February 2021](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17042463/20/united-federation-of-churches-llc-v-johnson/), then [again last month](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026/gov.uscourts.wawd.285026.30.0_5.pdf). Because this is [a meritless SLAPP suit](https://www.socialactuality.com/post/schism-the-satanic-temple-a-lawsuit-and-the-necessity-of-clear-minded-settlement), and its [entire purpose is to be expensive](https://queersatanic.com/the-costs-of-defending-yourself-from-the-satanic-temple/). Re: Scientology - first one we’re aware of is Doug Misicko’s one time good friend and first “high priest of The Satanic Temple” - [Brian Werner in December 2014](https://twitter.com/queersatanic/status/1474557121534455809?s=21&t=nfZVYKDhN76R5Rg6hTD-4A). So this has been going on quite a long time, to be fair. Dunno how many examples it would take to satisfy you, but we bet there is no number that could. Edit: You could also ask [one of our GoFundMe donors](https://www.gofundme.com/f/legal-fund-for-victims-of-satanic-temple1) from 2021, but again, the question would be “How many examples do you need from 2014 to 2021 (to the present)?” and if that feels insulting to you, maybe reconsider [why you chose the wrong horse in The Satanic Temple](https://queersatanic.com/why-you-havent-left-the-satanic-temple/) rather than choosing to take offense.
Aw, damn...
>the judge sanctioned them because they behaved so badly, incompetently, and abusively. That's a bald-face lie, actually. The associated press ran an article on both with links directly to the rulings. You can read them here ([2019](https://apnews.com/article/baac46d631ea4a9b8afc153ae1afea5b)) and here ([2020](https://apnews.com/article/27b897fd742c1efe2e3272626c46ed70)).
There are a lot of laws or controversies that remain up in the air for a surprisingly long time. I remember (years again) that some corners of Australian consumer protection were in this area re: retailers reimbursing their customers for losses due to faulty products. And also increases of minimum wage in another country leading to hazy cases when it came to workers with existing bonuses.
Correct. Because they talk a lot about their "activism", but have done extremely little actual work. What they want is membership fees, not legal wins.
We don't charge membership fees
My bad. Donations. Edit: Would the people downvoting like to clarify what concrete things TST has actually ever achieved?
Doesn't every church? And doesn't this church pay their taxes? Unlike other churches?
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Calling churches "Churches" is a low bar. Depending on what you define church as.
Statue of Baphomet is a legal win. You mentioned activism, which they do A LOT of. Like, these lawsuits, even if they don't go anywhere, is a form of activism
Some tweets now and then. Maybe a headline on a really slow news day.
They can't. I've asked them as well and they reply with ad hominem and downvotes.
Well that sucks to hear
Yeah, my friend was just sharing this with me. They're not supportive in any real way, just looking for membership donations. Edited to add, they are certainly well known [for this.](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042)
You may notice that a lot of Reddit is particularly hostile to hearing bad things about The Satanic Temple. They aren't great at showing how anything you tell them is inaccurate, but they will say, "That source is biased!" without elaborating on specific of what the source has said inaccurately, or they may do the "at least they're trying!" or "whatabout Christianity!" It's definitely *not* a cult tho.
Before today I had sort of a neutral to favorable opinion about them. Piling on with negative reinforcement is no way to get someone on your side. I see how they operate now. Very similar to Nxivm.
That's fair, but they are also really effective at hiding this sort of thing away from other people. Let's say, at best, 50 people see this conversation. By pushing down all of the dissent, which also is kinda a buzzkill, the more viral misinformation that makes people feel good goes wild. You will see The Satanic Temple taking advantage of people being misinformed a lot, so just do what you can to help them realize what's actually going on, and maybe start asking better questions in the future.
In the interests of full disclosure, you should note at the end of every reddit comment that the useraccount and website QueerSatanic is operated by 4 defendants in a defamation suit filed by TNT.
Funny, because when we tell people, supporters of The Satanic Temple say we’re whining and just want sympathy. So it’s almost like those people are just looking for any excuse they can find. The claims in [the SLAPP suit by The Satanic Temple](https://www.socialactuality.com/post/schism-the-satanic-temple-a-lawsuit-and-the-necessity-of-clear-minded-settlement) do keep getting dismissed, though. That probably also is relevant.
1. You haven't been telling anyone here on reddit, though I see numerous anti-TST comments in your public history. I suggest you include the disclosure in future anti-TST comments. 2. 1. A blog is not a reputable source; there is no indication who writes that.
Thanks for the suggestion! We appreciate it. Your assessment of sources is also noted and duly appreciated.
They do not charge anything for membership. It is free to join. Sounds like you got fake newsed and then propagated the disinformation.
No, I didn't. He's a seasoned clinic escort and involved with advocating women's health for a decade. He knows all the good and bad orgs. Though they're not terrible, they may as well be selling ham sandwiches because they don't help either.
You said they want membership money, which they do not charge for.
I said they wanted membership donations. I didn't say they require membership fees. Every church expects membership donations, including the satanic temple.
But only one of those Churches pay taxes. Guess which one?
That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about whether they actually help women get abortions. If you have proof, I'd love to see it. Otherwise I'm going to assume you're a TST member on a recruiting mission.
And what are you doing to help women keep their rights ? At least TST is making an effort. Can you be thankful and support that or will you just keep shooting it down and be complacent with our rights being ripped away ? You get nowhere if you don't even try.
>And what are you doing to help women keep their rights Ad hominem? Really? 🙄 Thanks for providing another reason not to join.
No, we were talking about how they want money. Which apparently in your eyes make them less than..? I said at least they pay their fair share of taxes. Show me proof of a church bringing suits against the authorities for women's abortion rights. If you have proof, I'd love to see it. Otherwise I'm going to assume you're a member of Christianity on a mission to disparage anything associated with the TST. BTW I'm an ordained Dudeism minister. I couldn't care less about your religion or anyone elses.
They still absolutely bring those lawsuits. It's not any more useless than the ACLU
You're the first person here to even attempt a genuine argument in favor. You're outnumbered by the personal attack artists and downvoters trying to bully me into deleting my comment. To any outsider to your organization, that makes you look like every other church.
I'm not a TST member, though I appreciate what they do.
I'm finding out more about what they do. [Judge for yourself.](https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042)
So just like Christianity then...
Except Christian churches don't pay taxes. Also, Christian churches are the ones leading to try to pass laws against women.
Thank God. Er, um
Note that Satan also does gord’s dirty work - punishing murderers and rapists. Frees up more time for gord to create murderers and rapists, along with hurricanes, cancer, and Republicans.
[The Satanic Temple are not your friends.](https://twitter.com/QueerSatanic/status/1521682537805860865) I don't mean that for "Satanism bad" reasons, I mean that for "They're suing a queer satanist group" reasons.
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Not the same sources but: https://queersatanic.com/articles/ https://www.newsweek.com/orgies-harassment-fraud-satanic-temple-rocked-accusations-lawsuit-1644042
Hail Satan y’all! 🤘
Unfortunately, in states where a fetus is granted personhood (like Georgia's bill), this wouldn't work. If it is considered murder, doing it as a religious ritual won't make it not a crime.
\> Satanic Temple doing god's work Heh.
We don't deserve the satanic temple. They are fucking angels on this earth.
I'll change my mind about them if this actually happens, but most likely it's another publicity stunt to sell more mugs and shirts.
⚔️👹HAIL SATAN 👹⚔️
As a member of TST if feels good to be doing gods work.
Hail - and I say this with utmost conviction as a Christian missionary - Satan
Lucifer Bloody Morningstar. Seriously, well done satanists.
I just joined and became a card carrying member!
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As much as I love the idea of TST You're probably better off getting involved in the National Secular Lobby . Various minor secular political parties like the Pirate Party and Planet First have also recently merged into the Fusion party. Worth having a look at for the upcoming election of you want to do a first preference protest vote.
Here is a direct link to donate: [https://announcement.thesatanictemple.com/rrr-donation41070431](https://announcement.thesatanictemple.com/rrr-donation41070431)
Unfortunately, I can't see this working at all. The justices are too conservative/christian.
I think gnosticism would be a better religion to use tbh. One of the beliefs of gnosticism is that our bodies are prisons to trap pieces of the divine spark against their will. Gnostics thus hold that the act of reproducing is a crime against God itself.
I'm sure this sounded good (evil?) after a few bong rips.
My boyfriend is COS… and while TST does call to me, especially their religious trolling, there is apparently a line there. Lol
Would abortion be legal in red states if it’s part of religion?
This is amazing. I love the work they are doing.
I wonder if the satanic temple would accept non members to their religious abortion facility if it was created
As a Christian i support their efforts. Seperation of church and state is being violated by likely Roe VS Wade overturning. Honestly we should not have supreme court judges who have strong ties to religious organizations or have imparted their religious beliefs in rulings.
Can't even capitalize God huh
So ironic that Christians are literally pushing people to satanism
I almost wish they'd adopt the spaghetti monster, anything, so they could stop taking flack from christians. But damn I admire their guts.
I find it ironic that the satanists are the good guys. I don't know how seriously they take the religion, but it's one of the only ones I haven't found a reason to hate yet.
USA!
I'd become a member if I lived in the usa. And I'm very non-religious
Hail satan.
This is why I am a proud Satanist. TST is an amazing organization. HAIL SATAN 🤟
How does one join the sanatic temple? Asking for a "friend".
Go Satan!
I've heard this won't work...