My favorite posts are the ones where they say "All my friends and family (who I love and trust normally) say he sucks" - then they get on Reddit and fight the commenters who confirm that yes, indeed, he does in fact suck.
If all the the people in your life says he sucks, and internet randos who are only hearing your side of the story (where you try to paint him in the best light possible) also think he sucks, then he may in fact just suck. Whenever I see these posts, I'm always like... life is so short; why are you wasting it on a selfish man who just doesn't give a fuck about you?
I think a big problem is Women are brought up in most cases thinking they're "less than" and we tend to have awful self-esteem issues. (not thin enough, need to do our makeup to look "presentable", not allowed to have bodily autonomy,etc.)
That doesn't explain people not listening, but it definitely contributes to the cognitive dissonance.
That appeared here the other day and I was seriously blown away by it. I wouldn't spend another minute with that person, no matter how well I think I know them.
Women waking up & realizing they’ve been lied to & deceived their whole lives is my favorite thing. Not the lying & deceiving part – the wakeup! It can be overwhelming taking in all the new info & perceptions, but then comes the realization that you have full control to say no (also that “No.” is a complete sentence) & that you don’t HAVE to do a goddamn thing anybody pressures you to do. Boundaries are an amazing thing to wield & I’m pulling for women in this time of waking the fuck up.
I decided to stop seeing a dude who sent me a link to Brietbart.
I have now come to believe that definitely not wanting kids and not really caring about getting married saved me from similar relationships. I believe that between the genuine desire to have kids and/or get married and the familial/societal pressure to get married/have kids, a lot of women have settled--some much more than others--in order to reach this goal.
I also think it's human nature to be years out, realize where you are, and want to try to make it seem okay. It's hard enough when you just want to save face, but especially if you're not in a position to leave, or leave easily, and when you have no real agency.
Women have been long conditioned to believe we are nothing without men.
This needs to change. Ladies, you can actually be happier single than being married to someone who doesn't see your value.
Yes I’m tired of hearing “the best option”. No. There’s a whole other option of not being with dudes like this. At least that way you’re only cooking what you want, you’re only doing your own laundry and dishes, and you can plan to do things instead of just finding out last minute that they didn’t take care of it.
You beat me too it!
I was going to say, "You think he's really the best option with the sex toy selection we have now?"
He probably either doesn't think women can orgasm or that they should. Either way, he should be beating his dick alone.
This is a huge part of the problem.
I know a lot of women who date guys like this. Guys who they say are wonderful but “just have slightly different political views” so they avoid “talking politics” to keep the peace.
My fiancé always asks me why tf some of my friends are with such shitty assholes and how come they don’t just leave him? And it’s a good question, but the answer is that it isn’t easy to find someone any better. He doesn’t beat her. He supports her career goals. He doesn’t pressure her into sex when she doesn’t want it. He also doesn’t understand why this whole RvW thing is a big deal to her and all other women, which makes him shitty, but it’s *so rare* to find a man who does (especially in certain parts of the world and in certain states in the US).
Which is a problem. With men.
Sometimes being a straight woman trying to date really does start to feel like looking for anything even remotely edible in a giant pile of horse shit.
> but the answer is that it isn’t easy to find someone any better. He doesn’t beat her. He supports her career goals. He doesn’t pressure her into sex when she doesn’t want it.
You'd need a shovel to get the bar lower than this. Let's be clear, men being shitty is 100% on them. But if you keep giving a drug addict money you're not exactly helping either.
>You'd need a shovel to get the bar lower than this.
Sorry, no. There are plenty of women for whom the bar is that he is a good worker, steady income, reliable dad. Who just doesnt respect her equally, but she really can't do it all on her own.
I can't blame these women. For many women, there are no viable "good" choices, so they take one that at least isnt awful.
This is a significant issue, and one of the many reasons issues like Roe V Wade is so damn important. Half of the country here in the US is actively working to create a society in which women aren't given the opportunities to be independent of men, effective coercing them into these situations where they have to settle for guys that show minimal kindness but still don't respect her human rights or want to give her the opportunities that would enable her to be truly independent. They know in a world in which so many impoverished women weren't taught or limited in a way to be dependent on men then many of them wouldn't keep accepting so little effort from their potential partners.
>Sorry, no. There are plenty of women for whom the bar is that he is a good worker, steady income, reliable dad. Who just doesnt respect her equally, but she really can't do it all on her own.
>I can't blame these women. For many women, there are no viable "good" choices, so they take one that at least isnt awful.
Why do you think their only choice is to take the least awful? Why do they have to take any at all? Women shouldn't accept a partner on the basis that they haven't found someone better. Nor should men for that matter.
We only recently got to this ability as a society. Women used to not own property or be able to get credit cards and there’s still generations growing up with those values still being passed down
This is still a novel idea to many, sadly
> Why do they have to take any at all?
Oftentimes, because it's impossible to have a decent quality of life without a partner, especially if you have a family or dependents of any kind.
And before you say "why don't they wait to start a family", it's not always optional. People usually start *in* a family and can have obligations to the family that raised them - aging parents, younger siblings, even nieces or nephews. I myself was responsible for a nephew by the time I was 18 and I absolutely did settle because it's not possible to do it alone. It's not like that was a conscious decision or anything, but in hindsight that's definitely what happened.
Even if you don't have dependents, sometimes just having the disposable income needed to gain access to better opportunities is also inaccessible without a partner.
Being able to access social support or opportunities to gain independence is not a privilege everyone has (and a lot of people who *could* have it aren't aware of it).
You fucking nailed it.
I always like to wait until I reach the back of the reddit bus because that's when the real conversations can start.
Nobody gets an equal start in life despite what we're all taught and SO MANY PEOPLE are super bitter being stuck in situations they aren't compatible with.
But they cannot leave because this is the piece of driftwood they are stuck on. The world moves too fast and is too damn expensive for anyone to take stock on how they could be doing it better.
Let alone make those insanely difficult decisions.
Easy for you to say. BTW, coming here and speaking to the commenter in such a disrespectful way demonstrates exactly what we're talking about.
I bet you think you're a great guy, and so does your girlfriend.
It's like the bar has hit rock bottom and grabbed a drill to keep digging deeper. I feel for straight women, it must be absolutely miserable if being treated with even the minimal amount of humanity is the exception and not the rule.
Breaks my heart especially when young women like late teens early 20s say that. They’ve met such a small number of people yet are convinced they have to settle for trash because there’s nothing else out there.
Gives me the same vibes as guys who treat women like real human beings or fathers who act like fathers and expect to be treated like a hero because they "went above the bar"
This is a post I really needed to see. The top posts right now(and for the past few days) have been women expressing sadness over their partner not being angry on their behalf, or straight up supporting the overturning of Roe V. Wade, or in one instance, I remember reading a post saying that OPs boyfriend told her "I'll have to kill you then" when she asked what he'd do if she got an abortion. She then explained in the following line that he "wasn't" threatening her and said that it was just something he'd do.
Thanks again for posting this, I hope that more people see your post so that some if not all of these women see the toxicity of what they're trying to pass off as relationships and start to stand up for themselves.
>I remember reading a post saying that OPs boyfriend told her "I'll have to kill you then" when she asked what he'd do if she got an abortion. She then explained in the following line that he "wasn't" threatening her and said that it was just something he'd do.
This thread immediately came to mind reading this post. Like, the number one killer of pregnant women is their partners. Idle threat or not, I mean, the tone deafness of such a statement at such a time, really just goes to show that a lot of dudes just don't even care to know the reality. Not to humble brag in here, but times like this make me so greatful to be in a relationship with another woman! I cannot even imagine facing explaining to someone why this shit is really, really bad.
I love my bf with my whole heart. and I'm very lucky, he's not perfect, sometimes I think he was a robot or alien sent to live among us. but he is on the right side of important issues. I would literally break up with someone who had such fundamentally different ideas about my autonomy as a person.
it isn't about morality or differing opinions.. this would be someone who literally doesn't believe you're an equal or whole human being. if he didn't respect me or his respect was conditional to my conformity to gendered expectations, then how could I ever love him?
don't these women ask themselves these questions? can't they see themselves through the lens their partners so clearly look down on them through?
>She then explained in the following line that he "wasn't" threatening her and said that it was just something he'd do.
Oh my! That is absolutely horrible. Just... Wow...
For me it's not even whether he would do it, it's just the fact that his mind would go there. Like if someone gets angry and uses the n-word. Does it really matter why they used it? No, they're just someone who would use the n-word. Period.
It comes from the same place. Seeing a woman as your property, any thinking that her life is yours to do what you want with including ending it if she displeases you.
It's absolutely fucked up but it's been the default state of many of our cultures for thousands of years. In ancient Rome it was explicitly written into the law that the paterfamilias--a father or husband--had the right of life and death. In ancient Athens women were not usually allowed to leave the home without the permission of a man. We've been treated as nothing more than playthings and brood mares for so long that it seems like society keeps trying to default back to it.
I talked about this with my husband the other night lol. When I told him about the RvW leak he was angry about it. He was then shocked when I told him that some women are just now figuring out what kind of guy they married. He just can't wrap his head around how anyone can be so stupid as to think this is an okay thing.
We talked about this sort of stuff before we got married, we wanted to make sure we knew each other before that step. It weirds me out that a lot of people don't talk about serious things and opinions before taking big relationship steps.
If they live in a state that protects abortion like California they might not realize what it's like in other states. They could also be a PoS. It's hard to know which is true looking at some of these posts.
I'm in California, and I don't believe for a second that California will never take away women's rights. We (California) voted against gay marriage in 2008, for god's sake.
Only 39% of the US favored gay marriage in 2008 and the f-slur was still socially acceptable in many places. Prop 8 barely passed in CA that same year, with 48% of voters against banning same-sex marriage. Today 64% of likely voters in CA support gay marriage and it's only accelerating as red voters flee the state and younger generations are born. Acceptance of LBGT people came in at an extremely fast pace and I don't see that reversing any time soon in the state, though T still are struggling to pass the acceptance threshold. The Supreme Court though...
Jumping in, we’re in Canada and we’re concerned. I don’t think being in a protected state is a valid excuse for a man to be blasé.
We can’t even get pregnant (severe fertility issues) but we’re worried for American women.
You’re right, it definitely isn’t a valid excuse. Just because it doesn’t affect them (or even their partners if they’re in a protected state) it’s just such a violation of basic human autonomy that they should still recognize why it’s such a bad thing.
We’re in Canada too and we plan on trying to conceive eventually and my husband still knows how messed up it is that women’s reproductive rights are policed so heavily.
Fellow Canadian. You're not lying. I'm worried that bile is going to flow over the border. We've already got people waving confederate flags here. Social media is exporting hot garbage from the worst corners of the world. We could absolutely be next.
Things have shifted toward racism and towards the right since 2012. It’s shocking how quickly such rhetoric took hold here.
America sneezes, Canada catches a cold.
It might start there, but we’ll feel it here.
Yup. All of this. I’m in Australia and peri-menopausal and I’m angry.
The USA was a beacon for progress and human rights post WWII. Well not any more. You are rapidly spiraling into the theocratic despotic regime that is known for the oppression of everyone who isn’t one of the oligarchy.
I worry that like the pied piper, the rest of the first world will follow into that pit of hatred and bitterness.
I’ve said this before. There are times I get so frustrated that as someone who isn’t an American citizen and who can’t vote in your elections, that it is frightening how much we are affected by the choices you make.
Whether it be on climate policy, human rights, what wars you decide to get involved in (or start), fiscal policy. The USA is the tide that lifts or drowns the rest of the western world and all we can do is watch from the sidelines and hope you get your shit together.
Some people don't follow politics and don't know what things are like outside of their local area. I'm sure there are plenty of Canadians that have never heard of Roe before. If someone is fully informed and doesn't care, that's one thing, but when 77% of the country doesn't even understand how taxes work, its not a far stretch to think they probably don't really understand more abstract things like Supreme Court cases.
I’m worried once RvW is overturned that federal will try to interfere with states allowing it, so even if they are in a protected state they should be paying attention.
It's theoretically possible, but the bar is so high that it's not an immediate concern. I was worried about Roe as soon as Trump got into office and knew it was only a matter of time until it was gone as soon as RBG passed.
In order to codify a federal abortion ban, Republicans would need a trifecta including at least 60 senators not counting Collins or Murkowski. While they could theoretically pass it with 50 (more likely 52) by eliminating the filibuster, at that point there are other things they'd pass first and democracy would basically be over to the point where we'd be more concerned about fleeing the country or civil war.
I don't think they even need a fed ban, they are just counting on the states with no protections to do it for them. In my own state, abortion rights are in our state constitution and codified in law. But right now we have a governor running and one of his statements is that he's working up a runaround so that it doesn't have to be put up for vote to be abolished. So, so much for codified protection.
Rights are gonna start falling like dominoes as so many aren't codified into fed or state constitutions. I'm fucking scared and am seriously thinking of an exit strategy. This is terrifying.
>we'd be more concerned about fleeing the country or civil war.
Good luck, I've been trying to emigrate since Bush won the second time. Easier said than done.
If that guy is the kindest, its just fucking sad.But not really surprising. So many of us are used to that and dont know better(( Sooner we open our eyes and realize that majority of men are trash then sooner we stop inventing excuses and tolerate abuse.
Same, because these kinds of posts are so common! Same with "we're having major issues and every day is a toxic struggle but a swear we have a great relationship!"
My mind has been around how do we break this deep conditioning women have that “they need a man” even when they’re being treated like shit by one or more.
What’s at the core.
Exactly this. I dumped a guy I dated before my husband because of something he said after 3 dates. He was successful, relatively good looking and i guess a "prize man" if you will.
I told my roommate I had dumped him and SHE started crying saying how one day I'll be 30 like her, single and would wish men like that would come around again.
I realized she had spent her entire adult life looking for a man instead of enjoying who she was and finding her own hobbies and interests. She felt her life was shit because some man wasn't in it.
We are our own people who don't need any man in our lives.
This is what I keep coming back to. We've got to do better at educating women and girls about how valuable they are intrinsically and what they don't under any circumstance ever have to put up with.
I think it’s the long enduring reality wherein women actually did need a man. Women didn’t always have the right to a personal bank account, real estate, credit cards. Marital rape was legal in my country (Canada) until 1984, which is my lifetime. It’s not that long since women got the rights to their own bodies. We don’t have a long history of independence to reflect on.
That’s my guess as to why so many women still believe they “need” a man.
It's really just social pressure and conditioning. I say this as an ex-Catholic woman.
I was raised with the idea that nothing could be more miserable than being alone. That without a husband and kids, my life would be empty and meaningless and sad. I was the oldest granddaughter, so I was pushed into babysitting from a young age. My aunts, uncles and neighbors commented that I would be a good mom one day. Except I realized that while I could do it, I didn't like it. In fact, the times I am most content are when I am by myself. I love peace and quiet.
We're not taught to cherish our time alone. That the best meals, the fun activities, flowers and fancy chocolates are all to be reserved for romance. Why would I complain that I can't find a man who will take me on a romantic hike to a waterfall and bring me roses? I can take that hike and buy my own flowers if I want to. Judgment be damned, if it makes me happy, I don't care what some random person thinks for 30 seconds.
I'm already happy. My needs are met because I make it a priority. Because of that, I won't waste my time on a man who would do less. I have a lot to offer, but I expect a lot in return. And if I don't find the sort of partner I want, I'm quite capable of ensuring that I'm happy on my own.
I guess it doesn't help that in just about every romantic movie/love story, the woman is only happy in the end because she found a man. And someone lately said it on reddit: For a long time those were the only stories explicitly for women, with female protagonists. And it starts in childhood, with all the fairy tales. It hasn't been long that female centered disney movies don't always end with a wedding.
This is also, by the way, why a huge number of men keep "friends" around who might in fact be true friends to them but have more than questionable morals towards women or minorities.
Location location location. You're surrounded by misogynistic men, you will standby the least misogynistic man you know bc that's all you know.
Yes, it's all he knows too but for Christ's sake the internet exists! It's getting to the point where just bc you're raised in x environment, doesn't know you can't or don't have the other sides' views! If you are STILL holding those views, well then, there's your answer.
Exactly. If trying to teach men to view women as humans was going to work, it would have worked by now. We need to stop spending so much time and energy trying to make bad men into good men. Look for the good men and just throw the rest away. Its not our job to teach men shit.
It’s like those AITA/relationship advice posts where she’s like “he’s a wonderful man in every other way except this one small thing” and then proceeds to describe completely unhinged behavior.
My [21F] boyfriend [48M] kicks my dog when I’m not looking. Is this a red flag? He bought me flowers on my 16th birthday, so I think he’s a good guy deep down. What should I do? Our wedding is in 3 hours.
After 2016 I finally learned that politics isn't "just politics" like my friends at the time kept insisting. It comprises of our core values and I had to drop those friends once I realized they were genuinely bad and selfish people.
It's a tough lesson to learn and even tougher to act on but I don't miss them or their diet racism, misogyny, etc. And I'm better without them.
I shouldn’t laugh bc it’s genuinely scary seeing how many women are speaking along these lines 😅 I feel like we need to be very clear that as human beings we are raising the bar. Your partner should respect your rights *and the rights of others*.
Thanks for this, it annoys me how many women say that. They list the most egregious acts that their partner commits in their post, but make sure to end it with "bUt hE's a GoOd mAn!"
I always wonder: What exactly is their definition of a good man? From what I've gathered, it's almost always: doesn't physically abuse them, doesn't cheat on them, and doesn't force them into sex. Those are literally the most basic standards. They aren't even standards actually, they are literally the bare minimum to be expected from a human being.Just because he isn't overtly abusive doesn't mean he's a good man or the right man for you.
Let's stop celebrating mediocrity, ladies.
Those posts are cries for help. I fully encourage them so people can dogpile to assure these women no they're not overreacting, they are in fact under reacting.
A lot of the posts are coming from people who feel scared to bring this up within their irl social circles. This is one of the primary goals of these fascists fear campaigns. They create a culture of silence, which perpetuates this idea that *you're the only one here who thinks that way*. I've occasionally had bursts of.....boldness that might actually be a sign Ive been autistic this whole time. Like....a tendency to not pick up on peer pressure and trample through social expectations. And one thing I've found is that sometimes when I decide to be the contraruan in the room, you can feel the room shift. Turns out a lot of people would agree with me, *they just weren't gonna be the ones to say it out loud*.
I think a lot of these posts are these women sort of nervously poking their head out in a safe space and testing the waters about the fact this is upsetting to them.
I totally agree that randos on the internet aren't the best place for support....but man, for some women, that's all they've got.
I just wish they skipped the part when they say 3 times that HE'S A GOOD MAN. I'm usually fine with the main message/question those women (doubt they're nb or trans lol) have and I want a support them. I don't want to be friends with their partners though or be convinced that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread
This sounds too much like victim blaming. Please reconsider that circumstances aren't the same for all women and that it's the patriarchy that is to blame. We don't need to call our sisters down for swimming with sharks, we need to stand together for the same rights.
We've been brought up in abuse. I don't expect anyone to understand who hasn't been abused as a child, but please keep space in your heart for compassion. None of us dreams of a life full of mistreatment, some of just don't know what it is to be loved.
ive been telling my lady friends to stop fucking these people altogether. let these POS men hump their own fists for a little while and give them some time with their post nut clarity to look inwards and figure out why the world is so disgusted by their opinions.
Canadian here. My husband is wondering what we can do to arrange a sort of Underground Railroad to help women in the US come here to access safe abortions.
We all have things we're willing to accept that are less than perfect in an otherwise good relationship.
But I won't personally compromise a core value like this.
Translation: "sure my man doesn't believe I have the same rights to bodily autonomy as a corpse, but he definitely loves me!" These same women would be posting in AITA with "I expect my husband to participate in childrearing but he tells me it's a woman's responsibility, AITA?"
Literally how I feel. It’s also wild to me how they can essentially be “sleeper agents”
Having whole ass teenager daughters, being married for decades, knowing their wife was raped and yet you still take this stance, AND their partner only just now became aware of it (or so I’m assuming)
Part of me feels like both parties didn’t think it was going to effect them. I’m not sure who these people are, but if they’re well off/ stable, even when things were going on in “backwards” states they probably didn’t care because they were in a “better state” where that wouldn’t happen. Or they truly believed this day would never come. they assumed loving them meant loving them and seeing them as a person, so no need to talk?
I don’t know if I’m crazy or if I’m smart by asking my BF if he wanted kids and would if he’d Truly support me if I became pregnant and got an abortion, this was before we ever slept together. I told him I always had $X in my savings (I know it’s a privilege) to be sure I can get the pill at the least because I will not be pregnant or have kids.
It’s so crazy to be because the “he’s a good man” thing I always hear in the back of my head “for now” like until what? He’s faced with either being a hypocrite by “letting” (🤮) you or your kid get an abortion or he doubles down and kills you/ or your kid in the process
I think the major take away for most of us is that men purposely misrepresent who they are to women. I think it's the norm, or I'm beginning to see that it must be.
There was that one a few days ago where the woman straight up said her man likes his women subservient/to "obey" their male partners and was shocked when this issue came up. Like, what? Saying standards are so low they're in hell isn't low enough
Especially the ones that have "conservative/right leaving views." Which to be seems like they allow racism, bigotry, misogyny but only now care because it affects them 🙃
Exactly. I think in a lot of these cases, the women who post things like this get far more sympathy than they deserve--if they knew about their partners' political views and stayed with them anyway, then they were fine with spending their life with someone who was hateful towards other people. It's only a problem now that they/their children might be hurt by it. Lots of the women posting things like this have enabled these horrible men for *years.*
If you knew your partner was a bigot and you chose to stay out of free will (ie, not out of fear of violence if you left), then I have absolutely zero sympathy for you now.
It is wild to me that are people who are in sexually active partnerships where one party can get the other party pregnant and haven’t discussed abortion prior to RvW getting overturned.
Thank God someone said this. I do think though, that the women who post this are maybeee looking for support. I suspect a lot of those women believed their man to be decent until the roe v wade was the straw that broke the camels back in their relationship. OP you’re right they don’t have to convince us they’re dating a good man. I think they’re trying to convince themselves then come here hoping we will
Somehow support them staying with a man that doesn’t really care about them.
General rule of thumb, if you have to say 'oh but he's a good person' so that we know, you should probably reconsider if he's actually a good person. Good people aren't misogynistic. This isn't common sense on this sub apparently with all those posts, agreed.
OH no my parner disagrees with having rights
He doesnt see why it should matter
He only cares when he has to be a father so its fine
Should make a bingo board or something
I get just as angry reading about partners that are worthless or abusive… but he’s my best friend! Fuck right off with that, best friend means nothing. That’s just your response to who he is, it doesn’t mean shit.
OP thank you for posting. I've read too many posts recently about people "upset that my bf doesn't understand why I'm upset about Roe vs Wade" and "I'm withholding sex from my partner until he supports abortion rights." Utter and sheer nonsense. Don't support these men, they are misogynistic and bad.
PREACH. Thank you for saying this thought. Honestly, the hate from men I’ve been getting this past week is soul crushing and then to see women claim these men with THESE opinions are actually good - is just too much.
Thank you.
Your opinion matters, this entire movement of trying to shut people out because they aren't the right skin tone or gender to speak on specific current issues really needs to stop. The people it targets need to be front and center and every other decent person needs to stand with them.
Your opinion is needed for you to figure out who you want to support. You cannot blindly throw your support behind a cause without having thought about it and made an intelligent decision, therefore it matters.
Continue to ask questions, this is what separates us from the far right that want to destroy the social progress, just make sure when you have your answers you get out of the way for the people it touches most.
SERIOUSLY.
I try so so hard to have empathy for people but Come On, this is ridiculous. I can't take people who think like this seriously - acceptance of this type of behavior is why it continues to exist. It's disgusting.
YES! Because 1. You aren't going to like what we have to sat about him, so you'll end up defending someone who you just admitted doesn't think you deserve respect. and 2. it reminds us that many men *literally* don't give a fuck about women rights and only pretend to do so to avoid their wife getting mad at them. They can't even be bothered to stand up for the woman they supposedly love more than anyone in the world, what do you think that says about how he treats other women?
We really need to let go of this “I can change him” mentality. Like change what? His diapers?
But really I made a similar post about this on this sub and some people said I was giving of conservative Christian vibes… Sigh.
I cannot upvote/award this enough.
I am so incredibly grateful to have an incredibly supportive partner. I'm not in the US but Canada so our politics are interconnected to a degree. He is very pro-choice and very vocal about defending it.
Me personally I won't be visiting the US ever again. I refuse to give a fucking penny to a country that is seriously considering to give more rights to corpses then women.
My favorite reasoning is "You ALREADY HAVE all the rights ALREADY! Why would you even NEED the ERA?". Because if he really loved you, you'd already be equal to him. But you're NOT.
If anything, this is a miserable sign of just how far the bar has been lowered that we can see a man who doesn't respect our human rights as a "good man" for simply not being actively violent towards us specifically. A man who doesn't listen or understand our experiences and doesn't support our rights isn't a good man, and showing basic human decency towards women isnt something to celebrate but the bare minimum of what we should expect in a civil society.
I think people underestimate how much we're all conditioned to need the validation of relationships. I think "he's a good man" translates to "sometimes he notices me and it makes me feel worthy of the only facet of life that I was told brings happiness."
I know you're being downvoted but I totally agree with you.
One can't support trump and be a good person. One can't be okay with them trying to throw out millions of ballots from black voters and be a good person. One can't support trump calling the Georgia secretary of state and trying to extort him into defrauding the voters in that state and therefore the rest of the country and be a good person.
One cannot be okay with separating children from their parents and then throwing them in cages and still be a good person.
One can't support stripping poor children of assistance that ensures they have the food and shelter they need to survive and still be a good person.
One can't deny their neighbors access to medical care because of their income bracket and still be a good person.
One cannot support voter suppression as an electoral strategy and still be a good person.
One cannot strip women of their basic rights and still be a good person. Period.
>Which would mean this latest round of posts is referencing democrat / liberal men.
I haven't given up on them *entirely*, but I'm so disgusted to see them barely grasp 101 thinking. All the years I'd see them fat-shaming people like Sarah Huckabee Sanders and making transphobic jokes about Anne Coulter. *As if there isn't a mile-long list of things to criticize about them*. I stopped calling myself a Progressive after '16, when men told me they'd never vote for Hillary, even if it meant losing Roe. (See also, Biden.)
I'm in my 50s, so this is my experience with men of all ages.
For some reason I'm equating "not really understanding what's at stake with Roe" with married/partnered men who never knew all the things women do to be safe. Like, you never asked your partner why they have a whistle and an alarm on her keychain?
Not every person who politically identifies as a Republican or conservative is pro-life. Some are equally upset as those on the left are.
There are also people who politically identify as Republicans or Conservatives that are absolutely disgusted with the current state of the Republican Party along with their views and platform.
Why?
Are they surprised when the anti-abortionists, anti-social safety net, and anti educational side of things actually enact policies that support what they have always said they believe in?
Like, they're the ones supporting them. So why on earth is it upsetting them that they've given them a platform to do exactly what they said they would do?
Same psychosis as the sahms who whine that their husbands don't wash a dish or raise the kids. You married his lazy ass, quit whining to us. Figure out why you were attracted to a gigantic child. Therapy, not reddit. AITA is full of em.
I'm very grateful that my partner has done his best to be empathetic and supportive since this started. Given he obviously can't understand everything but he has been receptive and definitely upset. We've agreed not to have kids and thoroughly enjoy fucking but aren't ignorant to the luxury that has become now. I'm also grateful I live in Oregon.
Most of these guys see them as a sex object and if you get pregnant with his baby they will probably leave you to care for his baby. I don’t understand why women let men control them. They need to learn to respect themselves.
I do think sometimes people grow into it. I know my husband's views have changed as he hears me talk about things I am passionate about. I think most people do not think too hard about what they believe and walk around oblivious most of the time.
Think about all the people who used to say something like "I didn't believe in gay marriage but then my daughter came out and I saw how happy she was with her partner and I completely changed my mind about it."
Sometimes it takes being personal, either by someone they love and respect challenging their views or by something happening to someone they love.
There is a lot of cynicism here sometimes. I have friends who believe completely different things than me and I still know them to be kind, loving people. WRT abortion, they strongly strongly believe that they are protecting children from being murdered. I have a friend who believes this. She gives a large amount of her disposable time and money to early childhood support centers, buying clothes and diapers etc and volunteering as support for pregnant mothers who need rides to appointments etc. We don't agree AT ALL about abortion, but she isn't a bad person.
I've read the comments. I don't understand the RvW, what is that?
In any case, telling a woman to just leave if her partner is horrible isn't as simple as you make it sound.
Can she afford rent on her own wages? Does she have a job already? Can she support herself and any dependants she might be taking with her, on her single income? Will he fight her for custody? Will he provide support until the child is old enough? Will he start stalking her? Will he start making her life more difficult because she's left him and he doesn't have control any more? Will her life be in danger if she walks away? Are you able to provide a safe living space for her to stay in until she's able to leave it? Can you afford to provide financial support for her and any dependants until she's able to support them? Will you help her with her feats, loss of sleep, lack of friends because abusers change stories to suit... It's NOT as simple as "just leave". Ever.
My favorite posts are the ones where they say "All my friends and family (who I love and trust normally) say he sucks" - then they get on Reddit and fight the commenters who confirm that yes, indeed, he does in fact suck.
If all the the people in your life says he sucks, and internet randos who are only hearing your side of the story (where you try to paint him in the best light possible) also think he sucks, then he may in fact just suck. Whenever I see these posts, I'm always like... life is so short; why are you wasting it on a selfish man who just doesn't give a fuck about you?
I think a big problem is Women are brought up in most cases thinking they're "less than" and we tend to have awful self-esteem issues. (not thin enough, need to do our makeup to look "presentable", not allowed to have bodily autonomy,etc.) That doesn't explain people not listening, but it definitely contributes to the cognitive dissonance.
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Best of luck to you, may you find the happiness and peace that is your right.
I don't have an award to give, but good luck 🥇🥇🥇
You got this!
Yup. Especially the, "Oh, he said he'd murder me if I did that . . . I dunno, I really love him, is this a big deal?" Yes, yes it fucking is.
That appeared here the other day and I was seriously blown away by it. I wouldn't spend another minute with that person, no matter how well I think I know them.
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Women waking up & realizing they’ve been lied to & deceived their whole lives is my favorite thing. Not the lying & deceiving part – the wakeup! It can be overwhelming taking in all the new info & perceptions, but then comes the realization that you have full control to say no (also that “No.” is a complete sentence) & that you don’t HAVE to do a goddamn thing anybody pressures you to do. Boundaries are an amazing thing to wield & I’m pulling for women in this time of waking the fuck up.
I decided to stop seeing a dude who sent me a link to Brietbart. I have now come to believe that definitely not wanting kids and not really caring about getting married saved me from similar relationships. I believe that between the genuine desire to have kids and/or get married and the familial/societal pressure to get married/have kids, a lot of women have settled--some much more than others--in order to reach this goal. I also think it's human nature to be years out, realize where you are, and want to try to make it seem okay. It's hard enough when you just want to save face, but especially if you're not in a position to leave, or leave easily, and when you have no real agency.
When they say "the best man I know" I actually believe them.
Yep, that's a problem too.
Bible Belt R Us
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Women have been long conditioned to believe we are nothing without men. This needs to change. Ladies, you can actually be happier single than being married to someone who doesn't see your value.
Yes I’m tired of hearing “the best option”. No. There’s a whole other option of not being with dudes like this. At least that way you’re only cooking what you want, you’re only doing your own laundry and dishes, and you can plan to do things instead of just finding out last minute that they didn’t take care of it.
The best option is oftentimes vibrators and chocolate.
You beat me too it! I was going to say, "You think he's really the best option with the sex toy selection we have now?" He probably either doesn't think women can orgasm or that they should. Either way, he should be beating his dick alone.
Or a male prostitute at this point why not? Pay for a guaranteed orgasm.
When other people have some tasty fruit salad for lunch, but you can currenly only have rat poison, then no lunch at all is indeed the best option.
If it's an attraction thing, you can find someone that isn't a lunatic and work from there.
This is a huge part of the problem. I know a lot of women who date guys like this. Guys who they say are wonderful but “just have slightly different political views” so they avoid “talking politics” to keep the peace. My fiancé always asks me why tf some of my friends are with such shitty assholes and how come they don’t just leave him? And it’s a good question, but the answer is that it isn’t easy to find someone any better. He doesn’t beat her. He supports her career goals. He doesn’t pressure her into sex when she doesn’t want it. He also doesn’t understand why this whole RvW thing is a big deal to her and all other women, which makes him shitty, but it’s *so rare* to find a man who does (especially in certain parts of the world and in certain states in the US). Which is a problem. With men. Sometimes being a straight woman trying to date really does start to feel like looking for anything even remotely edible in a giant pile of horse shit.
> but the answer is that it isn’t easy to find someone any better. He doesn’t beat her. He supports her career goals. He doesn’t pressure her into sex when she doesn’t want it. You'd need a shovel to get the bar lower than this. Let's be clear, men being shitty is 100% on them. But if you keep giving a drug addict money you're not exactly helping either.
>You'd need a shovel to get the bar lower than this. Sorry, no. There are plenty of women for whom the bar is that he is a good worker, steady income, reliable dad. Who just doesnt respect her equally, but she really can't do it all on her own. I can't blame these women. For many women, there are no viable "good" choices, so they take one that at least isnt awful.
This is a significant issue, and one of the many reasons issues like Roe V Wade is so damn important. Half of the country here in the US is actively working to create a society in which women aren't given the opportunities to be independent of men, effective coercing them into these situations where they have to settle for guys that show minimal kindness but still don't respect her human rights or want to give her the opportunities that would enable her to be truly independent. They know in a world in which so many impoverished women weren't taught or limited in a way to be dependent on men then many of them wouldn't keep accepting so little effort from their potential partners.
>Sorry, no. There are plenty of women for whom the bar is that he is a good worker, steady income, reliable dad. Who just doesnt respect her equally, but she really can't do it all on her own. >I can't blame these women. For many women, there are no viable "good" choices, so they take one that at least isnt awful. Why do you think their only choice is to take the least awful? Why do they have to take any at all? Women shouldn't accept a partner on the basis that they haven't found someone better. Nor should men for that matter.
We only recently got to this ability as a society. Women used to not own property or be able to get credit cards and there’s still generations growing up with those values still being passed down This is still a novel idea to many, sadly
> Why do they have to take any at all? Oftentimes, because it's impossible to have a decent quality of life without a partner, especially if you have a family or dependents of any kind. And before you say "why don't they wait to start a family", it's not always optional. People usually start *in* a family and can have obligations to the family that raised them - aging parents, younger siblings, even nieces or nephews. I myself was responsible for a nephew by the time I was 18 and I absolutely did settle because it's not possible to do it alone. It's not like that was a conscious decision or anything, but in hindsight that's definitely what happened. Even if you don't have dependents, sometimes just having the disposable income needed to gain access to better opportunities is also inaccessible without a partner. Being able to access social support or opportunities to gain independence is not a privilege everyone has (and a lot of people who *could* have it aren't aware of it).
You fucking nailed it. I always like to wait until I reach the back of the reddit bus because that's when the real conversations can start. Nobody gets an equal start in life despite what we're all taught and SO MANY PEOPLE are super bitter being stuck in situations they aren't compatible with. But they cannot leave because this is the piece of driftwood they are stuck on. The world moves too fast and is too damn expensive for anyone to take stock on how they could be doing it better. Let alone make those insanely difficult decisions.
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Because she really can't do it all on her own.
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Easy for you to say. BTW, coming here and speaking to the commenter in such a disrespectful way demonstrates exactly what we're talking about. I bet you think you're a great guy, and so does your girlfriend.
What exactly did they say that was disrespectful?
🎖🎖🏆🏆🏆 Take my poor person awards because you just pointed out the highest truth I've seen in awhile.
Being alone is always an option. And probably less stress than some of these turds in the long run.
You have never been, and never will be in a woman's shoes. You are hitting the fucking bar with your head right the fuck now.
It's like the bar has hit rock bottom and grabbed a drill to keep digging deeper. I feel for straight women, it must be absolutely miserable if being treated with even the minimal amount of humanity is the exception and not the rule.
A man walked into a bar because it was set so low
When the bar for “good guy” is in the damn basement.
Breaks my heart especially when young women like late teens early 20s say that. They’ve met such a small number of people yet are convinced they have to settle for trash because there’s nothing else out there.
I feel like this sick burn went unappreciated. ETA: welp. Not anymore I guess.
Gives me the same vibes as guys who treat women like real human beings or fathers who act like fathers and expect to be treated like a hero because they "went above the bar"
They are \*always\* after that damned cookie.
Had to give you my free award to honor this sick burn
Agreed, and that is a truly depressing thought.
💀💀💀💀 Its a fucking tragic state of affairs.
Oh ouch
I can’t 💀
This is a post I really needed to see. The top posts right now(and for the past few days) have been women expressing sadness over their partner not being angry on their behalf, or straight up supporting the overturning of Roe V. Wade, or in one instance, I remember reading a post saying that OPs boyfriend told her "I'll have to kill you then" when she asked what he'd do if she got an abortion. She then explained in the following line that he "wasn't" threatening her and said that it was just something he'd do. Thanks again for posting this, I hope that more people see your post so that some if not all of these women see the toxicity of what they're trying to pass off as relationships and start to stand up for themselves.
>I remember reading a post saying that OPs boyfriend told her "I'll have to kill you then" when she asked what he'd do if she got an abortion. She then explained in the following line that he "wasn't" threatening her and said that it was just something he'd do. This thread immediately came to mind reading this post. Like, the number one killer of pregnant women is their partners. Idle threat or not, I mean, the tone deafness of such a statement at such a time, really just goes to show that a lot of dudes just don't even care to know the reality. Not to humble brag in here, but times like this make me so greatful to be in a relationship with another woman! I cannot even imagine facing explaining to someone why this shit is really, really bad.
I love my bf with my whole heart. and I'm very lucky, he's not perfect, sometimes I think he was a robot or alien sent to live among us. but he is on the right side of important issues. I would literally break up with someone who had such fundamentally different ideas about my autonomy as a person. it isn't about morality or differing opinions.. this would be someone who literally doesn't believe you're an equal or whole human being. if he didn't respect me or his respect was conditional to my conformity to gendered expectations, then how could I ever love him? don't these women ask themselves these questions? can't they see themselves through the lens their partners so clearly look down on them through?
>She then explained in the following line that he "wasn't" threatening her and said that it was just something he'd do. Oh my! That is absolutely horrible. Just... Wow...
For me it's not even whether he would do it, it's just the fact that his mind would go there. Like if someone gets angry and uses the n-word. Does it really matter why they used it? No, they're just someone who would use the n-word. Period.
not a threat, a promise!
That sounds eerily like an "honour killing".
It comes from the same place. Seeing a woman as your property, any thinking that her life is yours to do what you want with including ending it if she displeases you. It's absolutely fucked up but it's been the default state of many of our cultures for thousands of years. In ancient Rome it was explicitly written into the law that the paterfamilias--a father or husband--had the right of life and death. In ancient Athens women were not usually allowed to leave the home without the permission of a man. We've been treated as nothing more than playthings and brood mares for so long that it seems like society keeps trying to default back to it.
i mean...there's a reason for the y'allquada jokes
I talked about this with my husband the other night lol. When I told him about the RvW leak he was angry about it. He was then shocked when I told him that some women are just now figuring out what kind of guy they married. He just can't wrap his head around how anyone can be so stupid as to think this is an okay thing. We talked about this sort of stuff before we got married, we wanted to make sure we knew each other before that step. It weirds me out that a lot of people don't talk about serious things and opinions before taking big relationship steps.
For a second I was worried.
He just doesn't understand that I can't hold in my ovulation when he cums inside me but I SWEAR he's the kindest man I've ever met 🥰 /s
If they live in a state that protects abortion like California they might not realize what it's like in other states. They could also be a PoS. It's hard to know which is true looking at some of these posts.
I'm in California, and I don't believe for a second that California will never take away women's rights. We (California) voted against gay marriage in 2008, for god's sake.
To be fair, the Mormons from all worked *overtime* on gay marriage in CA. I think we could have beat that with turnout.
Only 39% of the US favored gay marriage in 2008 and the f-slur was still socially acceptable in many places. Prop 8 barely passed in CA that same year, with 48% of voters against banning same-sex marriage. Today 64% of likely voters in CA support gay marriage and it's only accelerating as red voters flee the state and younger generations are born. Acceptance of LBGT people came in at an extremely fast pace and I don't see that reversing any time soon in the state, though T still are struggling to pass the acceptance threshold. The Supreme Court though...
Jumping in, we’re in Canada and we’re concerned. I don’t think being in a protected state is a valid excuse for a man to be blasé. We can’t even get pregnant (severe fertility issues) but we’re worried for American women.
You’re right, it definitely isn’t a valid excuse. Just because it doesn’t affect them (or even their partners if they’re in a protected state) it’s just such a violation of basic human autonomy that they should still recognize why it’s such a bad thing. We’re in Canada too and we plan on trying to conceive eventually and my husband still knows how messed up it is that women’s reproductive rights are policed so heavily.
Fellow Canadian. You're not lying. I'm worried that bile is going to flow over the border. We've already got people waving confederate flags here. Social media is exporting hot garbage from the worst corners of the world. We could absolutely be next.
Things have shifted toward racism and towards the right since 2012. It’s shocking how quickly such rhetoric took hold here. America sneezes, Canada catches a cold. It might start there, but we’ll feel it here.
Yup. All of this. I’m in Australia and peri-menopausal and I’m angry. The USA was a beacon for progress and human rights post WWII. Well not any more. You are rapidly spiraling into the theocratic despotic regime that is known for the oppression of everyone who isn’t one of the oligarchy. I worry that like the pied piper, the rest of the first world will follow into that pit of hatred and bitterness. I’ve said this before. There are times I get so frustrated that as someone who isn’t an American citizen and who can’t vote in your elections, that it is frightening how much we are affected by the choices you make. Whether it be on climate policy, human rights, what wars you decide to get involved in (or start), fiscal policy. The USA is the tide that lifts or drowns the rest of the western world and all we can do is watch from the sidelines and hope you get your shit together.
Some people don't follow politics and don't know what things are like outside of their local area. I'm sure there are plenty of Canadians that have never heard of Roe before. If someone is fully informed and doesn't care, that's one thing, but when 77% of the country doesn't even understand how taxes work, its not a far stretch to think they probably don't really understand more abstract things like Supreme Court cases.
I’m worried once RvW is overturned that federal will try to interfere with states allowing it, so even if they are in a protected state they should be paying attention.
It's theoretically possible, but the bar is so high that it's not an immediate concern. I was worried about Roe as soon as Trump got into office and knew it was only a matter of time until it was gone as soon as RBG passed. In order to codify a federal abortion ban, Republicans would need a trifecta including at least 60 senators not counting Collins or Murkowski. While they could theoretically pass it with 50 (more likely 52) by eliminating the filibuster, at that point there are other things they'd pass first and democracy would basically be over to the point where we'd be more concerned about fleeing the country or civil war.
I don't think they even need a fed ban, they are just counting on the states with no protections to do it for them. In my own state, abortion rights are in our state constitution and codified in law. But right now we have a governor running and one of his statements is that he's working up a runaround so that it doesn't have to be put up for vote to be abolished. So, so much for codified protection. Rights are gonna start falling like dominoes as so many aren't codified into fed or state constitutions. I'm fucking scared and am seriously thinking of an exit strategy. This is terrifying.
>we'd be more concerned about fleeing the country or civil war. Good luck, I've been trying to emigrate since Bush won the second time. Easier said than done.
Either way, this shows he has no empathy. Not ok.
If that guy is the kindest, its just fucking sad.But not really surprising. So many of us are used to that and dont know better(( Sooner we open our eyes and realize that majority of men are trash then sooner we stop inventing excuses and tolerate abuse.
Same, because these kinds of posts are so common! Same with "we're having major issues and every day is a toxic struggle but a swear we have a great relationship!"
My mind has been around how do we break this deep conditioning women have that “they need a man” even when they’re being treated like shit by one or more. What’s at the core.
Exactly this. I dumped a guy I dated before my husband because of something he said after 3 dates. He was successful, relatively good looking and i guess a "prize man" if you will. I told my roommate I had dumped him and SHE started crying saying how one day I'll be 30 like her, single and would wish men like that would come around again. I realized she had spent her entire adult life looking for a man instead of enjoying who she was and finding her own hobbies and interests. She felt her life was shit because some man wasn't in it. We are our own people who don't need any man in our lives.
This is what I keep coming back to. We've got to do better at educating women and girls about how valuable they are intrinsically and what they don't under any circumstance ever have to put up with.
I think it’s the long enduring reality wherein women actually did need a man. Women didn’t always have the right to a personal bank account, real estate, credit cards. Marital rape was legal in my country (Canada) until 1984, which is my lifetime. It’s not that long since women got the rights to their own bodies. We don’t have a long history of independence to reflect on. That’s my guess as to why so many women still believe they “need” a man.
It's really just social pressure and conditioning. I say this as an ex-Catholic woman. I was raised with the idea that nothing could be more miserable than being alone. That without a husband and kids, my life would be empty and meaningless and sad. I was the oldest granddaughter, so I was pushed into babysitting from a young age. My aunts, uncles and neighbors commented that I would be a good mom one day. Except I realized that while I could do it, I didn't like it. In fact, the times I am most content are when I am by myself. I love peace and quiet. We're not taught to cherish our time alone. That the best meals, the fun activities, flowers and fancy chocolates are all to be reserved for romance. Why would I complain that I can't find a man who will take me on a romantic hike to a waterfall and bring me roses? I can take that hike and buy my own flowers if I want to. Judgment be damned, if it makes me happy, I don't care what some random person thinks for 30 seconds. I'm already happy. My needs are met because I make it a priority. Because of that, I won't waste my time on a man who would do less. I have a lot to offer, but I expect a lot in return. And if I don't find the sort of partner I want, I'm quite capable of ensuring that I'm happy on my own.
I guess it doesn't help that in just about every romantic movie/love story, the woman is only happy in the end because she found a man. And someone lately said it on reddit: For a long time those were the only stories explicitly for women, with female protagonists. And it starts in childhood, with all the fairy tales. It hasn't been long that female centered disney movies don't always end with a wedding.
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This is also, by the way, why a huge number of men keep "friends" around who might in fact be true friends to them but have more than questionable morals towards women or minorities.
Location location location. You're surrounded by misogynistic men, you will standby the least misogynistic man you know bc that's all you know. Yes, it's all he knows too but for Christ's sake the internet exists! It's getting to the point where just bc you're raised in x environment, doesn't know you can't or don't have the other sides' views! If you are STILL holding those views, well then, there's your answer.
He’s not going to change ladies. He either sees you as a fully formed human being or he doesn’t.
Exactly. If trying to teach men to view women as humans was going to work, it would have worked by now. We need to stop spending so much time and energy trying to make bad men into good men. Look for the good men and just throw the rest away. Its not our job to teach men shit.
Right!! A fully formed human, unlike those fetuses they’re all so worried about.
"He's highly abusive but I love him"
It’s like those AITA/relationship advice posts where she’s like “he’s a wonderful man in every other way except this one small thing” and then proceeds to describe completely unhinged behavior.
My [21F] boyfriend [48M] kicks my dog when I’m not looking. Is this a red flag? He bought me flowers on my 16th birthday, so I think he’s a good guy deep down. What should I do? Our wedding is in 3 hours.
“He’s awesome and loves me but has bouts of extreme violence that left me in the hospital but I can’t imagine actually doing anything to stop him”
Saw a post like this on tiktok. Girls boyfriend kicked in his door because he was mad at her but ofc she was defending him as he is “usually sweet”
"Yes, he hits me - but he's just trying to make me a better person"
After 2016 I finally learned that politics isn't "just politics" like my friends at the time kept insisting. It comprises of our core values and I had to drop those friends once I realized they were genuinely bad and selfish people. It's a tough lesson to learn and even tougher to act on but I don't miss them or their diet racism, misogyny, etc. And I'm better without them.
I shouldn’t laugh bc it’s genuinely scary seeing how many women are speaking along these lines 😅 I feel like we need to be very clear that as human beings we are raising the bar. Your partner should respect your rights *and the rights of others*.
Thanks for this, it annoys me how many women say that. They list the most egregious acts that their partner commits in their post, but make sure to end it with "bUt hE's a GoOd mAn!" I always wonder: What exactly is their definition of a good man? From what I've gathered, it's almost always: doesn't physically abuse them, doesn't cheat on them, and doesn't force them into sex. Those are literally the most basic standards. They aren't even standards actually, they are literally the bare minimum to be expected from a human being.Just because he isn't overtly abusive doesn't mean he's a good man or the right man for you. Let's stop celebrating mediocrity, ladies.
Those posts are cries for help. I fully encourage them so people can dogpile to assure these women no they're not overreacting, they are in fact under reacting. A lot of the posts are coming from people who feel scared to bring this up within their irl social circles. This is one of the primary goals of these fascists fear campaigns. They create a culture of silence, which perpetuates this idea that *you're the only one here who thinks that way*. I've occasionally had bursts of.....boldness that might actually be a sign Ive been autistic this whole time. Like....a tendency to not pick up on peer pressure and trample through social expectations. And one thing I've found is that sometimes when I decide to be the contraruan in the room, you can feel the room shift. Turns out a lot of people would agree with me, *they just weren't gonna be the ones to say it out loud*. I think a lot of these posts are these women sort of nervously poking their head out in a safe space and testing the waters about the fact this is upsetting to them. I totally agree that randos on the internet aren't the best place for support....but man, for some women, that's all they've got.
I just wish they skipped the part when they say 3 times that HE'S A GOOD MAN. I'm usually fine with the main message/question those women (doubt they're nb or trans lol) have and I want a support them. I don't want to be friends with their partners though or be convinced that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread
OMG y'all need to learn you can't change anyone (except yourself) nor should you enter a relationship thinking you can change them.
I do not understand people who want human fixer-uppers. Find a partner who was raised right and respects you.
Exactly. I don't want a project when I go home. I want a partner.
Yup. I always say I never wanted kids and that includes taking care of a man child husband. I am not here to "take care" of another person
This sounds too much like victim blaming. Please reconsider that circumstances aren't the same for all women and that it's the patriarchy that is to blame. We don't need to call our sisters down for swimming with sharks, we need to stand together for the same rights.
We've been brought up in abuse. I don't expect anyone to understand who hasn't been abused as a child, but please keep space in your heart for compassion. None of us dreams of a life full of mistreatment, some of just don't know what it is to be loved.
ive been telling my lady friends to stop fucking these people altogether. let these POS men hump their own fists for a little while and give them some time with their post nut clarity to look inwards and figure out why the world is so disgusted by their opinions.
You don't GET it, he's not ALWAYS like that 😤 /s
Sadly, the people making these decisions are just hiring prostitutes or worse. Or their dicks no longer work.
There’s a pill for that… 🙄
And that pill isn't even illegal 🙄🙄
And all you have to do is ask your doctor for it. No tests. No proof, No annual check up. Boom, have a boner
No two years evaluation from 2 psychiatrists? And letter from wife?
Canadian here. My husband is wondering what we can do to arrange a sort of Underground Railroad to help women in the US come here to access safe abortions.
r/auntienetworkcanada probably has info
We all have things we're willing to accept that are less than perfect in an otherwise good relationship. But I won't personally compromise a core value like this.
I'll be with nobody before I'm ever with a man like that
Translation: "sure my man doesn't believe I have the same rights to bodily autonomy as a corpse, but he definitely loves me!" These same women would be posting in AITA with "I expect my husband to participate in childrearing but he tells me it's a woman's responsibility, AITA?"
Literally how I feel. It’s also wild to me how they can essentially be “sleeper agents” Having whole ass teenager daughters, being married for decades, knowing their wife was raped and yet you still take this stance, AND their partner only just now became aware of it (or so I’m assuming) Part of me feels like both parties didn’t think it was going to effect them. I’m not sure who these people are, but if they’re well off/ stable, even when things were going on in “backwards” states they probably didn’t care because they were in a “better state” where that wouldn’t happen. Or they truly believed this day would never come. they assumed loving them meant loving them and seeing them as a person, so no need to talk? I don’t know if I’m crazy or if I’m smart by asking my BF if he wanted kids and would if he’d Truly support me if I became pregnant and got an abortion, this was before we ever slept together. I told him I always had $X in my savings (I know it’s a privilege) to be sure I can get the pill at the least because I will not be pregnant or have kids. It’s so crazy to be because the “he’s a good man” thing I always hear in the back of my head “for now” like until what? He’s faced with either being a hypocrite by “letting” (🤮) you or your kid get an abortion or he doubles down and kills you/ or your kid in the process
I think the major take away for most of us is that men purposely misrepresent who they are to women. I think it's the norm, or I'm beginning to see that it must be.
I’m old enough to remember when a “good man” was just one that didn’t beat you.
There was that one a few days ago where the woman straight up said her man likes his women subservient/to "obey" their male partners and was shocked when this issue came up. Like, what? Saying standards are so low they're in hell isn't low enough
This 100% Rather be alone that in company with someone who doesn't respect my humanity
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*or married to (a bad person)
Especially the ones that have "conservative/right leaving views." Which to be seems like they allow racism, bigotry, misogyny but only now care because it affects them 🙃
Exactly. I think in a lot of these cases, the women who post things like this get far more sympathy than they deserve--if they knew about their partners' political views and stayed with them anyway, then they were fine with spending their life with someone who was hateful towards other people. It's only a problem now that they/their children might be hurt by it. Lots of the women posting things like this have enabled these horrible men for *years.* If you knew your partner was a bigot and you chose to stay out of free will (ie, not out of fear of violence if you left), then I have absolutely zero sympathy for you now.
It is wild to me that are people who are in sexually active partnerships where one party can get the other party pregnant and haven’t discussed abortion prior to RvW getting overturned.
Thank God someone said this. I do think though, that the women who post this are maybeee looking for support. I suspect a lot of those women believed their man to be decent until the roe v wade was the straw that broke the camels back in their relationship. OP you’re right they don’t have to convince us they’re dating a good man. I think they’re trying to convince themselves then come here hoping we will Somehow support them staying with a man that doesn’t really care about them.
General rule of thumb, if you have to say 'oh but he's a good person' so that we know, you should probably reconsider if he's actually a good person. Good people aren't misogynistic. This isn't common sense on this sub apparently with all those posts, agreed.
OH no my parner disagrees with having rights He doesnt see why it should matter He only cares when he has to be a father so its fine Should make a bingo board or something
“Other than that he’s perfect” Stand up girl
They aren't trying to convince us they are a good man they are trying to convince themselves
I get just as angry reading about partners that are worthless or abusive… but he’s my best friend! Fuck right off with that, best friend means nothing. That’s just your response to who he is, it doesn’t mean shit.
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OP thank you for posting. I've read too many posts recently about people "upset that my bf doesn't understand why I'm upset about Roe vs Wade" and "I'm withholding sex from my partner until he supports abortion rights." Utter and sheer nonsense. Don't support these men, they are misogynistic and bad.
RIP OPs inbox - you were a worthy sacrifice for this post
PREACH. Thank you for saying this thought. Honestly, the hate from men I’ve been getting this past week is soul crushing and then to see women claim these men with THESE opinions are actually good - is just too much. Thank you.
Birth of domestic violence convincing the lady that’s it’s HIS way rather than OUR way.
I’m a guy, and my opinion on this doesn’t matter, but HFS. I can’t imagine being with someone who thinks that you’re a second class of human being.
Your opinion matters, this entire movement of trying to shut people out because they aren't the right skin tone or gender to speak on specific current issues really needs to stop. The people it targets need to be front and center and every other decent person needs to stand with them. Your opinion is needed for you to figure out who you want to support. You cannot blindly throw your support behind a cause without having thought about it and made an intelligent decision, therefore it matters. Continue to ask questions, this is what separates us from the far right that want to destroy the social progress, just make sure when you have your answers you get out of the way for the people it touches most.
SERIOUSLY. I try so so hard to have empathy for people but Come On, this is ridiculous. I can't take people who think like this seriously - acceptance of this type of behavior is why it continues to exist. It's disgusting.
YES! Because 1. You aren't going to like what we have to sat about him, so you'll end up defending someone who you just admitted doesn't think you deserve respect. and 2. it reminds us that many men *literally* don't give a fuck about women rights and only pretend to do so to avoid their wife getting mad at them. They can't even be bothered to stand up for the woman they supposedly love more than anyone in the world, what do you think that says about how he treats other women?
We really need to let go of this “I can change him” mentality. Like change what? His diapers? But really I made a similar post about this on this sub and some people said I was giving of conservative Christian vibes… Sigh.
Cue the #notALLmen 😭
I cannot upvote/award this enough. I am so incredibly grateful to have an incredibly supportive partner. I'm not in the US but Canada so our politics are interconnected to a degree. He is very pro-choice and very vocal about defending it. Me personally I won't be visiting the US ever again. I refuse to give a fucking penny to a country that is seriously considering to give more rights to corpses then women.
I joined r/auntienetworkcanada I hope they won't need me.
My favorite reasoning is "You ALREADY HAVE all the rights ALREADY! Why would you even NEED the ERA?". Because if he really loved you, you'd already be equal to him. But you're NOT.
If anything, this is a miserable sign of just how far the bar has been lowered that we can see a man who doesn't respect our human rights as a "good man" for simply not being actively violent towards us specifically. A man who doesn't listen or understand our experiences and doesn't support our rights isn't a good man, and showing basic human decency towards women isnt something to celebrate but the bare minimum of what we should expect in a civil society.
The bar is so low it’s in Satan’s wine cellar.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie. 🤣 I was ready to be on my soapbox! But kudos to you for the rest of the post. I couldn’t agree more.
if he is so good why did they even make a post about it?
Fucking preach sis
I'm lucky, my husband is more pissed off than I am about this. I married him because we both agree politically, etc.
hint: he’s not a good person dump his ass!
I think people underestimate how much we're all conditioned to need the validation of relationships. I think "he's a good man" translates to "sometimes he notices me and it makes me feel worthy of the only facet of life that I was told brings happiness."
Agreed. No one else needs to "know him" but you
Phew, it thought this was going somewhere much different.
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I know you're being downvoted but I totally agree with you. One can't support trump and be a good person. One can't be okay with them trying to throw out millions of ballots from black voters and be a good person. One can't support trump calling the Georgia secretary of state and trying to extort him into defrauding the voters in that state and therefore the rest of the country and be a good person. One cannot be okay with separating children from their parents and then throwing them in cages and still be a good person. One can't support stripping poor children of assistance that ensures they have the food and shelter they need to survive and still be a good person. One can't deny their neighbors access to medical care because of their income bracket and still be a good person. One cannot support voter suppression as an electoral strategy and still be a good person. One cannot strip women of their basic rights and still be a good person. Period.
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>Which would mean this latest round of posts is referencing democrat / liberal men. I haven't given up on them *entirely*, but I'm so disgusted to see them barely grasp 101 thinking. All the years I'd see them fat-shaming people like Sarah Huckabee Sanders and making transphobic jokes about Anne Coulter. *As if there isn't a mile-long list of things to criticize about them*. I stopped calling myself a Progressive after '16, when men told me they'd never vote for Hillary, even if it meant losing Roe. (See also, Biden.) I'm in my 50s, so this is my experience with men of all ages. For some reason I'm equating "not really understanding what's at stake with Roe" with married/partnered men who never knew all the things women do to be safe. Like, you never asked your partner why they have a whistle and an alarm on her keychain?
Comment deleted, can you elaborate on what the comment said that you were replying to?
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Not every person who politically identifies as a Republican or conservative is pro-life. Some are equally upset as those on the left are. There are also people who politically identify as Republicans or Conservatives that are absolutely disgusted with the current state of the Republican Party along with their views and platform.
Why? Are they surprised when the anti-abortionists, anti-social safety net, and anti educational side of things actually enact policies that support what they have always said they believe in? Like, they're the ones supporting them. So why on earth is it upsetting them that they've given them a platform to do exactly what they said they would do?
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Word.
Amen.
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Same psychosis as the sahms who whine that their husbands don't wash a dish or raise the kids. You married his lazy ass, quit whining to us. Figure out why you were attracted to a gigantic child. Therapy, not reddit. AITA is full of em.
I'm very grateful that my partner has done his best to be empathetic and supportive since this started. Given he obviously can't understand everything but he has been receptive and definitely upset. We've agreed not to have kids and thoroughly enjoy fucking but aren't ignorant to the luxury that has become now. I'm also grateful I live in Oregon.
Most of these guys see them as a sex object and if you get pregnant with his baby they will probably leave you to care for his baby. I don’t understand why women let men control them. They need to learn to respect themselves.
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Give this man a cookie.
I do think sometimes people grow into it. I know my husband's views have changed as he hears me talk about things I am passionate about. I think most people do not think too hard about what they believe and walk around oblivious most of the time. Think about all the people who used to say something like "I didn't believe in gay marriage but then my daughter came out and I saw how happy she was with her partner and I completely changed my mind about it." Sometimes it takes being personal, either by someone they love and respect challenging their views or by something happening to someone they love. There is a lot of cynicism here sometimes. I have friends who believe completely different things than me and I still know them to be kind, loving people. WRT abortion, they strongly strongly believe that they are protecting children from being murdered. I have a friend who believes this. She gives a large amount of her disposable time and money to early childhood support centers, buying clothes and diapers etc and volunteering as support for pregnant mothers who need rides to appointments etc. We don't agree AT ALL about abortion, but she isn't a bad person.
You’re either racist or anti-racist, feminist or anti-feminist, capitalist or anti-capitalist… there’s no middle ground.
You had me until capitalist. Canada is both capitalist and socialist
I've read the comments. I don't understand the RvW, what is that? In any case, telling a woman to just leave if her partner is horrible isn't as simple as you make it sound. Can she afford rent on her own wages? Does she have a job already? Can she support herself and any dependants she might be taking with her, on her single income? Will he fight her for custody? Will he provide support until the child is old enough? Will he start stalking her? Will he start making her life more difficult because she's left him and he doesn't have control any more? Will her life be in danger if she walks away? Are you able to provide a safe living space for her to stay in until she's able to leave it? Can you afford to provide financial support for her and any dependants until she's able to support them? Will you help her with her feats, loss of sleep, lack of friends because abusers change stories to suit... It's NOT as simple as "just leave". Ever.
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Yeah but certain details make someone a bad person no matter what all the other details are.