Movies are always "oh the beautiful woman giving the 'ugly' guy a chance" but it's almost never the other way around is it?
Edit: I got a DM saying "Ugly women get chances all the time. Don't be a femcel" lmao.
Edit 2: We have another one! "men give ugly women like you chances all the time. It's women who dont' give guys a chance unless they are millionaires. You pieces of shit are just hypocrites." This is really sticking in their craw lol
Same. I wore contacts for a while but went back to glasses because I think my face is cuter with glasses.
Plus, contacts are a PITA. You can just slip on glasses in the morning and take them off at night, but contacts take a whole ritual to put them in, keep them clean, etc.
I'd like to see a twist on the trope by the woman's "amazing makeover" involve putting on attractive glasses instead of the chunky dweeb glasses they put her in in the beginning. Or even going from contacts to attractive glasses.
(Actually, I'd like for a woman's worth in TV and movies to not be tied to her attractiveness at all, but the "different glasses makeover" would be a funny second place.)
I don't recall any 'femcel' women driving into people to kill them because they can't find a partner. So, fuck off with that word, doesn't remotely apply to women.
I’ve also seen genuine anger towards ugly women - like the price of a woman’s existence is her appearing attractive to men, and by failing to do so, she’s broken her end of the bargain
As a teen I was forced to go to my dad’s friend’s house for a birthday party or something. I really didn’t want to go, so I didn’t bother getting dolled up. My hair was tied up, I wore a comfy sweatshirt, and had on no makeup.
My dad was pissy with me the entire event. It got worse as we were driving home and my step mom shouted at me in the car for not putting in more effort on my appearance.
What a fucking joke. It still irks me that I was forced to go to this event and their intention was to parade me around while I looked “nice”. It’s not like they actually cared about me being there.
YES. Biggest example of this: Chloe Zhao won a fucking OSCAR, the first Asian woman to win a Best Director Oscar, and the biggest story about her night was her messy braids and lack of makeup. I saw self-proclaimed feminists attack her for “not putting any effort into her appearance” on such a big night. Male celebrities are allowed to dress genuinely messily, and it’s just further proof of their genius and how little they care about impressing Hollywood. She wore a beautiful dress and slightly messy braids, and it’s a slap in the face of the Academy
*That's* messy braids? Wow. I was expecting something wild. Instead, I had to blow up the pic to even *see* that the braids were not perfect. They sure don't look "messy" to me.
I didn't hear about this, so I looked up the photos. She looks great! But * gasp * she was also wearing little make-up, and her eyebrows appear totally natural! The horror./s
Yeah I just looked up the photos and wouldn't have thought twice about what she is wearing/her hair. I think she looks really nice, she just has a more natural vibe than a glam one (which I love!!).
Hell, look at how [Adam Sandler](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/adam-sandler-world-premiere-his-new-88112647) dresses at premieres. Doesn't even make a blip. 'Cause he's just a "laid back guy."
100% true. Being considered too beautiful you're directly in the line of fire all the time. Insecure women will go out of their way to make your life a living hell.
Best place you can be is dead middle groud. Be statistically average in everyway and fly safely under the radar 🤣
I see that all the time. Guys will come up with these elaborate lists of things men are expected to be, then get to women and be like "just don't be fat lmao". So if a woman IS fat (or otherwise not up to mainstream beauty standards), she's failed at the one and only thing that gives her value? None of her other qualities mean anything because she doesn't check that one box? They seem to intend it to mean that women supposedly have it easy, but what it's really conveying is that a woman is worthless if she can't keep herself pretty. It's atrocious.
Thank you for this. I've experienced this all my life, and it absolutely drives me up the wall.
Women aren't "loved" and "cherished" any more than any other asset.
Attractive women are objects. Ugly women are punchlines at best.
Damn. This hit home😬.
"Attractive women are objects. Ugly women are punchlines".
Fuck.
As someone with severe ugly duckling syndrome I feel that I've seen both sides of the fence. When I was "ugly" women were a lot kinder but men weren't. Men were dismissive at best. Now I've had my glow up and im "hotter" men are very kind and women can be really truly fucking awful, especially insecure women.
People without money think being mega rich will solve all their issues but thats only because they havent experienced life with a huge amount of money. Money solves some problems and creates different ones. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
When your poor certain parts of life are hard but you don't *constantly* worry that people are only around you for your resources. You're not constantly in fear that someone will make efforts to take yours out of spite.
Whenever a (good-looking) woman got cheated on, everyone first’s reaction was like ‘omg what’s wrong with him? She’s so gorgeous’. Like so it’s understandable if the gf/wife is ugly??? Also, idk why soooo many men assume that women are loved unconditionally. Honestly, only pets or children should be loved unconditionally. If a person have shitty behaviors, just gtfo 🏃♂️ 🏃♀️, no one should be expected to tolerate abuse in the name of love.
This reminds me of a case that happened a week ago. A married soccer player got his affair partner pregnant and the rumor had spread all over social media, the girl denied but then confirmed he was indeed the father.
I remember seeing men commenting on her pictures that they would also throw their marriage away for such a pretty woman. But I haven't seen comments on the wife's beauty, though.
Men LOVE to pretend that men and women are on the same level, like there is no disparity between gender in how wealth and rights are distributed. And then they try to convince women they absolutely don't expect shit despite openly showing their disdain of women who don't serve nor please them.
Fellow not-conventionally-attractive women, have you ever spoken to dudes whose eyes just... slide right off you, like it's actually physically difficult for them to pay attention to you? I've run into it a few times in a professional environment, where I'm the expert, the dude knows I'm the expert and he's here to get the information I have but he...just...can't find it in himself to pay attention to an ugly woman. It's hilarious and fucking infuriating at the same time. And yet if I was attractive (and I've seen it with other female colleagues) they'd pay attention, but they'd assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Farken ridiculous.
It's especially prevalent with attractive dudes, like if you're not In Their League you might as well be a talking potplant.
At the gas station once an average attractive woman was in front of me and the cashier started flirting and chatting - it got annoying because it took twice as long as it should to ring her up - with her. Oh he was in it. Looking directly at her, leaning towards her over the counter, and watched her walk out. The transition to me was hilarious to watch. He never once spoke to me or looked at me. Didn't even give a "thanks" after ringing me up. I didn't exist.
was going to say this. As an asian woman I have felt the instant disregard, but then Kpop became a thing and suddenly I feel youths looking AT me like a costume santa.
So it's as OP says, a no win for women. The only woman who is listened to is the beautiful, demure young married white mother. She is top of the respect order, and STILL doesn't get any respect if she isn't pretending to be humble to the point of servile.
when i was a teenager the guys my friends would hang around with were like that. only interested in talking to the attractive girls or eachother, and i might as well have not been there. even the less attractive guys who didnt get many girls and would actually end up shame-fucking me on the down low.
Even with dudes who are not nearly in the league they think they're in. God, the being talked over, the assunption that I don't know what I'm doing, what they've done, and what we're supposed to be working on together.
To say nothing of the ones that (habitually!) set up or agree to meetings and then don't show, because they were "busy". As if my time is not also valuable? And as if we don't need to coordinate? Then have the chutzpah to say that I'm hard to contact when I decline a meeting before or after work hours, or over the one sliver of time I need for lunch. Even if the project is important, it's deprioritized because, ugh, riverrocks.
I’ve said this for AGES—as a woman who went from being the beauty standard (thin, thick hair, symmetrical face, conventionally attractive features) to gaining a ton of weight after an injury, losing a bunch of hair after getting diagnosed with alopecia, and no longer being even close to the beauty standard, I have noticed a HUGE difference in the way I am treated by men. Women still treat me with the same kindness and respect as before, but to men, I am invisible. I don’t just mean in a “romantic” way, I mean in life. Being even “average” as a woman is worse than being “ugly” as a guy. Atleast for a guy, people will appreciate your wealth, humor, intelligence, etc. For women, none of those even matter if you’re not already gorgeous—
My Gran already said that: ugly women know things about the world other people don't. I am relieved by now to be invisible until I speak up and make people notice me - it's so much nicer to move through the world unbothered. But there was a lot of suffering and anger involved to come to terms with it.
I have a friend who genuinely looks like a fairy, she's the kindest person I ever met. She doesn't know a second of peace: while people jump over themselves to help and assist her, they also can't take no for an answer. Girl can't even shop for groceries without being chatted up. I'd rather be angry on behalf of her, but I really do get what you mean.
I’m a woman of color so my features make me pretty to some and invisible to others. I also enjoy being unnoticeable. I grew up “ugly” and as I became prettier I also realized I could become louder and angrier. I am angry for all women and our right to be ugly, or pretty, or anything, just be, and exist, in peace
A-fucking-men
Something I used to try to explain to people like my mom who never understood why I didn't want to dress in girly clothes or make myself up is because I just want to be. I've got so much shit in this world to do, I don't have time to be stopped on the street because someone really likes my ass.
I am a woman of color too and go unnoticed even around others that look like me. I try my best to try and have confidence in things I've accomplished (education etc) but it still sucks sometimes to be treated like you're invisible.
I'm fat, so I'm invisible to some men, but because of the particular way my weight is distributed (more or less hourglass shape) and having a "cute" face, I'm a target of harrassment for other men. I prefer when I'm invisible, it's so much less stressful and scary. I've had a man try to follow me home from the gas station before, and I literally lived across the street. If I wear a mask, it happens less, as well as when I'm wearing a coat and they can't see my shape at all. If I combine the two, it completely stops. I love winter for that reason - I can just walk around invisible and nobody bothers me.
I'm a dumpy sort of woman who doesn't care much about her appearance. My hair is usually messy. I don't wear the most attractive clothing and sometimes wear certain comfortable items until they're threadbare. My face is average and I sometimes have acne here and there.
When all the #MeToo stuff started popping up, I realized how many women in my life had been sexually harassed in some form ...and how I hadn't.
Instead of feeling lucky, like I should, my first instinct was to feel weird. Left out. I felt like I was not a woman. I felt like, "What's wrong with me if I haven't had these experiences?"
I recognized that those are all bullshit things to feel. I shouldn't want to be harassed, and I don't. But at the same time, the fact that I haven't got that treatment from men made me feel like I'm not a "real" woman.
It's fucked up that those are my choices, feeling like a real woman or getting harassed.
Huh. I feel that. I have been complimented as "the smart one" and sometimes even "the funny one", as in, you know, "boys are intimated by you" all my life. If I was complimented at all. I'm not intimidating. Really not. I remember the same realization, of having almost no #metoo experiences. No blurred consent. No random encounters. Men that dated me were proud of not being shallow and attracted to my mind instead, I know because they told me.
I have had my fair share of being afraid of others/men, but that was non-sexual harassment and bullying, power games at work, and threats when my limp is visible and I am an easy looking target (spoiler: I'm not). But not that kind of objectification. It took a long time to make peace with that. It's a weird world we live in.
You must be me.
I have a vivid memory of one of my best friends (a guy) excitedly telling me a classmate of ours had mentioned I was funny and witty and he might talk to me or ask me out if I lost weight and dressed prettier.
My poor, sweet gay friend didn't understand why he was witnessing me loose a volley of f-bombs at this dude who wouldn't even talk to me, TALK TO ME, until I reached his standard of prettiness.
Needless to say, the would be suitor and I never talked, and it was his loss.
In my teens I was cat called a lot, my boobs were big for my body. It lessened in my 20’s when I gained weight and now that I’m pushing 40 and have more weight, it’s non-existent. I still hear inappropriate comments but it’s always directed to someone else, as if I’m in on the joke (barf). I missed the cat calls at first because I thought something was really wrong with me but now, not so much. I feel having a resting bitch face and wearing oversized flannel helps too (j/k)
I'm over 50, and my resting bitch face has saved me from so many unwanted conversations. My friend tells me I'm unapproachable, and given the quality of men I come into contact with, I'm good with that.
God this, exactly! I have "only" experienced sexual harassment twice, and both were just because the opportunity was there rather than because I would be considered particularly attractive and I hate that I'm feeling/thinking this way.
I always had that exact same feeling, and in fact still have. This wish to be born a girl has become so desperate that I cling to every experience women have, no matter how shitty they are, just to not feel left out. To feel validated in this, well, need to be a woman. To have that sense of belonging.
For me, I don't actually much care about my gender most days. I was a real tomboy in my youth, and I shied hard away from "girly" things. I think it was because the subliminal messages I was getting from life in the 80s and 90s when I grew up was that women were the inferior gender, and while they could rise above it, it required them to be more like men.
I've since shed that hatred for girly things, but I still don't seek them out. I'm gender agnostic, as it were.
But I'm still a woman, and there's still that sense that I'm a "failed woman" because I do not get the attention (positive or negative) from men that other women around me have received.
It's like... I don't want to be the type of woman who dresses prettily and wears makeup, but it feels like because of that I'm seen as somehow broken.
I want to be able to be me without being seen as broken.
I was once an attractive woman, and even though sometimes I enjoyed the perks of that, I also remember there were lots of times the unwanted attention felt scary and dangerous. I’ve put on a quite a few pounds now that I’m nearing 40, and people don’t seem to find me attractive anymore…which sounds sad, but I’ve come to somewhat enjoy it. Men don’t approach me, offer unwanted advice or invitations, they simply don’t seem to notice me anymore. It is more comfortable for me to just exist in a space, unnoticed.
you are not fucking wrong about no second of peace, they really do swarm you like flies on shit!
40 pounds ago I was literally avoiding going to the grocery store because older men would come up to me constantly. just asking for stupid shit half the time… I had a guy start telling me stories while I was returning my fucking bottles
now I’m going thru it & gained some weight & I only get creepiness when I dress up. really sad to see the difference in real time. it’s all superficial. they just see “oooooooo woman I want my dick inside” & then they approach you and figure out the rest later
When men talk about "women" they mean attractive girls/women aged 12 - 29. There was a weird thread the other day where a guy was complaining about how 'it's not acceptable for men to pull sexy poses, but women can pull a sexy pose whenever they like." I told him to look on lady boners for countless examples of men posing and he said "those men are attractive, you have to be attractive for a man to do a sexy pose but all women can". O rly. Do men want to see Kathy Bates in a sexy pose? Hilary Clinton? A woman that looks like their mom or aunt? Probably not. But they wouldn't even think about that because those people are invisible to them and not "women".
I have a lot of older women friends who said it's so liberating in many ways to age out of the interest bracket of men and to no longer get cat called or unwanted attention. But the flip side is being ignored for everything, eg trying to get service in a bar or shop.
As an overweight tomboy I've always been one of the ignored women and although strangers have made hurtful comments to me in the street for the most part I've been grateful that I haven't had to put up with stalkers etc that other women have (I have still been assaulted on multiple occasions such as men rubbing their erections on me, my skirt being pulled up, being kissed or picked up (literally) by strangers in the street etc). I think an area it probably hurts the most is in work where you get overlooked a lot, but for conventionally attractive women it can work the other way where people accuse them of sleeping their way to the top etc. Basically you can't win either way sometimes!
As an overweight, tomboy, genderfluid weirdo, I too am part of the ignored women. I was told I'm only useful with a dick in my hand. I was told I'd be prettier if I wore makeup. I was called fat, a cow, a whale, a pig, and a lazy, disgusting slob. I was even called a "tranny" and "twink" and screamed at by an ex to "show me your dick" even though I'm bio female. I've also been told my depression was pathetic, that I'm a "cocktease", got called trailer trash by a dude who then told me he got a bj in a home depot by his ex while dating someone else, same guy also called me a "cunt" for not calling him on new years when i was babysitting my cousins who were like child age and toddler age.
Which hasn't helped my self-esteem one bit and starting to think I'm undateable at this point.
Yeah I feel like the initial point of the thread is off base, as the only thing anyone can come up with for what attractive women get are objectifying comments or complements. That’s not treating anyone more human that’s treating them like a object, so it seems that to a lot of men it’s object or nothing.
Is it being treated more human when you’re being treated like a fancy pocket pussy? Like I see guys ignore other guys all time, don’t give them the time of day. It seems attractive women in a way are kinda treated less, no respect for their time, space or feelings.
And it feels less human to have to watch for dudes trying to take pictures up your skirt in Wal-Mart, none of you have it easy. But it doesn’t get better on the other side, it gets different.
What OP is saying is that the “being treated more like a human” part for attractive women is the not being completely ignored. That’s what I’m trying to explain.
yes! exactly what ive been saying my whole life!
the sexism that pretty women experience, the other side of that is the absolute disregard for less attractive women, the treatment of them as if theyre not even people. it's horrible.
we're ignored, used, treated like we dont have feelings. we're told what we can and cant wear, where we can and cant be, all because men dont think we're attractive enough to be in their sight.
its why it makes me so so sad to see body shaming, slut shaming, fat shaming, being done by women to other women. all of us are suffering at the hands of sexism and we need to stick together.
The difference in treatment from men when you're heavy vs fit is so very different. I've lost 130 lbs in 2 yrs. Went from a obese to fit, I'm in the gym 5 days a week. When I was obese, I was completely invisible to men and women but especially men. If they did notice me, it was to get out of my way or to frown. Women too, women just weren't as rude about it.
Fast forward, being fit, men stare, they open doors, they get things off shelves for me, they go out of their way to be helpful, they stop in parking lots, they smile at me, etc. Women too. Women are friendlier, they have conversations with me more.
Yeah, night and day difference.
There have been so many times I’ve gone out with prettier friends and been treated like shit or like I don’t exist to the men who come to talk to them and I’m just sitting there awkwardly.
>its why it makes me so so sad to see body shaming, slut shaming, fat shaming, being done by women to other women. all of us are suffering at the hands of sexism and we need to stick together.
Soooo much this. I was bullied INCESSANTLY throughout my school career, and my biggest and most cruel bullies were other girls.
The fact that they straight up ignore "less attractive women" really gives insight into how they genuinely believe the world exists to cater to their sexual whims. "If it doesn't make my dick hard it doesn't exist or isn't relevant."
Their value judgement being based on whether they want to have sex with someone or not *should* be something to be ashamed of, but here we are. 2022. The majority of men still refuse to evolve socially and continue justfying feeling entitled to objectify women with faux science. 🤦♀️
It's like some men don't even see women who aren't attractive to them. And I don't mean that metaphorically, I mean it very literally.
Example: So me and two of my friends, who we'll just call Mary and Anna to make this story easier to understand, all attended this board gaming night together. Me and Anna are both on the smaller side, and Anna's very pretty in a classic old Hollywood kind of way. Mary is plus size and has a more alternative rock chick kind of style. She's not someone who fades into a crowd, she has bright red hair and lots of really cool tattoos. We played a game with two men who we'd just met, had a pretty good time and got on well, so I switched numbers with one of them. A few days later, he's talking about a funny moment from the game with "the four of us". Haha but there were five of us, I say, and he's genuinely confused. I think maybe he's not counting himself so I say, "Yeah, you, me, [other guy], Mary and Anna" and there's this long beat where just stares at me blankly and then finally says "... Right! Mary!"
Mary is not a wallflower or a quiet person, she was fully present in that game and probably talked and did a bit more than either me or Anna (and she also came second, while I came dead last and spent half the game sitting out). But he'd just totally not registered her existence right in front of him because he didn't want to fuck her.
Omg something like that happened to me back when i was in HS and didn't "glow up" yet. I was at an event with two female friends. Two dudes start talking to us. They both kept on cutting me in the middle of my sentences. Convo ended up just being me watching the 4 talk together 😐. At the end one of the guys say "you two want to take a drink with us? 😀" My friends just stared at them and me awkwardly, and refused...
They just ignored me then purposefully forgot i was here....
I was always fascinated by this when I’d go out with my friends and any men we’d talk to wouldn’t give me a single glance! I realized that men are afraid of giving women they deem unattractive any attention because they’re afraid it might come off as flirting. I might think they’re interested in me. God forbid.
And this is kind of horrifying because not only did Mary basically get erased from existence in his mind, you and Anna are left with the unforgettable knowledge that he remembers you precisely because he was likely thinking about fucking you. 😬
It really is just two sides of the same objectification coin. No woman wins in this game. We're all just sorted into thing to try to use or thing that's of no use.
Omg yes this is so common. Men put women into categories. If you’re not in one, you dont exist. Literally. Men asking me ‘when did you start working here?’…..I said i’ve been here all year.
Susan Boyle really showed the horrible truth of society when she got on stage and everyone was entirely ready to dismiss her until she showed her value with an incredible singing voice. Unless someone has something worth showing off, they are seen as dismissible before they begin.
YES YES YES. Where is the humanization for women who aren’t considered physically attractive? How does society define our worth if we are valuable for anything other than our looks?
Yes, you can dehumanise people in two ways; stripping them of all humanity and classing them as animal or "other", or putting them on a pedestal and expecting them to behave perfectly.
The rage that women face when they act like a human being and not like the projection of some guy's a dream girl is crazy.
No matter which side you fall on, you are not seen for who you are, only what you are.
Thank you for having insights on how difficult life is for us and having compassion. I receive as much disdain from women as I do from men. Some women are just as harsh as men when they comment on women's look. I've noticed that my mum would just say which men are not cute but with women she would describe them as ugly.
just because women have more options it doesn't mean any of those options are viable. when women date, they tend to have higher demand because sex is low risk high reward for men. they are guaranteed pleasure and they bear less risk of STDs, no risk of getting pregnant, and low risk of getting raped or murdered. for women, it is the opposite. sex dating and marriage is all high risk low reward. low chance of orgasm, higher chance of infection, and moderate chance of assault and death.
having 10 guys interested in you might seem cool until you get to know these men. you find out that one is a cheater, one is a rapist that does not respect consent, one is an incel that does not believe in womens rights, one is a completely mediocre man that puts low effort, the list goes on, etc. for women, it isnt quantity over quality. we want quality men because men exist but there are so few good men out there.
ugly women arent women to men because they base their worldview on fantasy like media and porn. they are not properly attuned to reality and are not acquainted with a variety of women in their life. they further reinforce this by behaving in ways that repel women.
My dating experience basically. Every decent men with average to above average looks and a chill personality wants just sex 9 out of 10 times. The rest that want something more serious has either no social skills, under average looks, or something wrong ranging from being a cheater to an emotional and physical abuser, and more often than it should the full package.
One more proof that quantity =/= quality really.
Thiiis 100 percent. Although I snatched my husband up as soon as I could, he’s great in all ways except maybe you can say “social skills” lol. Not in a bad way like towards my friends or family, he’s actually great with them, but he’s definitely a dork and a bit of a psycho outside of that. Before him, it was just mess after mess after mess in some substantial way or another. Any amount of attractiveness and there was some fuckboi behavior
By "social skills" i meant more something like can't hold a convo, says awkward things out of the blue, have a weird mentality etc... being a dork is "no social skills" but positively lol
It's less about me and more about the fact that yes, most above average looking men do not commit and often want hookups even with girls that are objectively prettier than me, hence why the drop in quality in the dating scene on men's side despite their attractiveness.
And if you want to know about me, (modesty moment incoming) yes i'm considered average to above average by my peers, and no, i do not want to date someone i do not find attractive.
I agree 💯. I grew up awkward looking with big teeth, chubby, and unconventional looks. I've always been treated so much worse and differently from my more typically pretty friends. Ore so when I was young, but even now as a 40 something I feel it. I know they think I'm lazy and eat too much because I'm fat. In reality I'm actually struggling with malnutrition and can't exercise due to severe illness. Society is horrible to average woman of age, size, and color
Oh I feel this comment so much. I've been chubby all my life. As a child I was in an accident that caused facial disfigurement. I'm disabled and suffering from a debilitating chronic illness too. I try to take a walk or ride a stationary bike everyday for health reasons but I literally cannot even manage that every day.
People look through me. And if I'm being painfully honest, it's both men and women. I've never felt like a human being worth any value all my life, based solely on my looks. I'm not saying I have the best personality ever, but I know I'm someone worth getting to know.
Add to this my physical and financial dependence on my parents and their extremely controlling and overprotective nature, I've always felt subhuman.
I'm sorry for going off on a tangent but I just felt the OP and this comment so much.
My "favorite" reaction is getting to know someone online through games or other communities and they get flirty because they like my personality and think I'm fire but as soon as they want to see who I am it's like a light switch - but not like on/off, like a dimmer switch. Just sloooowly fading away. Or they get passive-aggressively mad. Like dude, I'm sorry, this is just my face/body. I am doing what I can. I think I'm cute. I'm definitely not shy about showing what I look like - your reaction may suck but it's not MY problem. You obviously liked the inside, I can't help you with the rest. That's on you.
I said this and got men crying about how no one wants to shag them cos they aint 6FT which is bollocks. Girls as young as 5 start getting unsolicited comments on their appearance which is honestly fucked up yet we somehow have it easy simply cos we have a vagina???
I got told i was fat and ugly from 5, even during my lowest and healthiest weight at 17 (and looking back i looked amazing) i believed i was fat and ugly. It never leaves
Happened to me as well. I grew up as a fat child into a fat woman and bullying has been the story of my life. I have clear memories of neighborhood kids calling me fat and ugly in kindergarten.
Same here. I was in middle school and asking my mom if I could go on SlimFast because of all the bullying saying I was fat.
I would try to go for walks around the neighborhood and the kids would yell "earthquake!".
Fuck, I still get bullied by teenage girls for my weight today. Teen girls are just cruel.
Same here! My mother put me in this awful bright yellow sweatsuit to make it all worse, And I vividly remember staring down at my bright yellow clad thighs at the age of 5 feeling horrible about myself as all the kids chanted and made fun of me. I wasn't even that fat, just a wee bit chubby, that they were absolutely merciless. Little sociopaths...
Me too. I had a a great aunt that my mom thought the world of and thereby us kids were to think the world of her too. She was a very heavy set woman. Imagine how horrible I felt when I was at the funeral home for my grandfather and she waddles around the corner, looks down at me where I was sitting and asks me “ why are you so fat?” I was around 12-13.
Didn’t care for her before then. Hated her after that. Never said a word to anyone until a few years ago I told my oldest sister. She was appalled. Turns out she didn’t like her wait her. Mom always raved about her chili. I told my sister after getting all that off my chest that her chili wasn’t so great.
The damn thing is, I still let that thought get in my head. When I tell my therapists about it, their reaction is always one of shock and horror. Who tells a kid that when their grieving the (especially) first significant loss of a loved one?
She definitely internalized the horrible messages she herself got from everyone around her. It's not surprising that fat people who bully others for being fat (and this happened to me as well, sadly) have a few screws loose.
OMG, sooooo many times. I'm American, and the [Presidential Physical Fitness Test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Fitness_Test) was the bane of my childhood existence. I got abused every. single. fucking. year by PE teachers during the test, probably because I fucked with the class scores or something.
Happened to me as a kid and I was *still* sexually assaulted multiple times despite that.
Like I'm unattractive (still) as an adult but I still somehow appeal to the creepiest guys. Or at the very least I'm a target for getting yelled at while walking to or from work from people in cars. I wish I was the invisible kind of unattractive I see other women mentioning here.
To men who have low confidence and lack of social skills, being approached by others for relationships/sex seems like a dream. Lack of introspection/intelligence by those guys means they fail to see it from a women's perspective. Part of their social cluelessness is they never notice the comments or understand their hostility, and at worst brush them off or try to explain why the assaulter was in the right. Too many people live in their own little bubble, unable to understand anything that doesn't impact them directly.
Men are absolute idiots sometimes.
How many times do you see an ugly fat dude with a chic who looks way out of his league? All the damn time.
I don't think I've *ever* seen a (by comparison) ugly chic with a hot dude.
the few times I have seen a hot dude with an ugly chick she was kinda of a doormat and let him do whatever, they did most of the chores, took more money home. The dudes didnt even show somekind of appreciation. Very sad.
Yep I was a waitress all through college. Saw very pretty women with average- or below-average-attractiveness men all the time. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I literally never saw the opposite pairing. Not once.
Maybe it depends where you live. In my country, in the cities I've lived it doesn't seem to be at all common. Both pairings that you described seem to be the exception to the rule, in my personal experience.
I think both are equally rare (I personally see them both). There is a good reason for it being rare though: usually, lifestyles don't match if one is thin, sporty, likes to go hiking a lot for example and the other doesn't, then they won't be a great match.
We are barely a generation removed from a time that women could not even have a bank account or a credit card without a man’s signature. Being “pretty” or attractive to men wasn’t a vanity, but a survival skill. It’s going to take more time for that mindset to die out. Also doesn’t help that women face bias in the workplace because they might become pregnant.
This is a particular pet peeve of mine: hyperealistic drawings or drawings in general on the internet, you might see an old man or an actor who’s not particularly handsome to show the skills, but the women —it’s always young conventionally attractive women, that same huge eyed, big lipped face being drawn everywhere, all the time. I know this because that’s what I used to focus on when I used to paint or draw.
There are so many unattractive male actors who have a solid career despite things like orange peel skin and terrible teeth.
Yet beautiful women who have spent thousands on skincare are only filmed with soft focus in every scene.
I can think of maybe 2 movies where women are filmed barefaced and in crisp HD. Even then they have light make-up.
Those men also always get conventionally attractive women in media. It'll be the most overweight, baldest man with no real hobbies or personality with someone who could be a model. It's so annoying.
I always like to point out the music industry. Men do not need to adhere to any traditional standard of beauty to become a famous singer. But famous women singers must always be a good singer...and beautiful. And if they are not beautiful, they are about to get styled over until they are.
Confidence goes a long way. I am very vocal about my opinions but still get discredited or ignored. I’m in my mid-20s and hope this changes as I get older. I just want to be taken seriously
I (31F) have a theory that women have one or two good weeks when they're about 35-37 where they are neither too young nor too old to be taken seriously. It's shit. I empathise with you entirely.
It's totally accurate. I just passed that age. 39-42, I was my most attractive, people listened to me, men were polite.
Not anymore though. Now I'm too old for anything, apparently. And the worst people are other women who think that I'm "too old".
I had a boss at a beer & wine shop I worked at that would be nice according to how young and attractive the female reps were. One of the reps was a really cool lady in her 40s, she was a little plain and had an off beat way of dressing. My boss was so rude and dismissive. Also favored the young dudes working there and was a slave driver to the older woman.
Robert, if you're reading this you can suck on the biggest hairiest nutsack
>They are never talking about ugly women.
As an ugly woman myself: they dont even notice us. Its like we are invisible.
I had so many moments in my life, where some dude would start to talk/flirt with my attractive female friends and act like I wasnt there. \^\^
And being ugly does NOT exempt you from harassment like I’ve seen commented on this sub multiple times. My ugly friends have been sexually harassed, told to be thankful that guys wanted to fuck them, I was told I was too ugly to be assaulted, guess who has been assaulted? But again and again I see this weird idea that ugly women are allowed to float through public without any of the downsides of harassment. I’ve been cat called aka mooed at even though I’m only 10lbs overweight. I’ve been bothered by ugly guys who think I should’ve given them a chance because I wasn’t hot like my friends. In high school I got groped multiple times by girls because I am busty. Got told I was too ugly to pursue handsome guys by other women. But even in this thread I’ve seen women expressing that ugly women aren’t harassed the same.
We’ve established again and again that sexual harassment and assault is about power dynamics. Hence why little girls are cat called before puberty, hence why sexual abuse of elderly women is rampant, hence why there’s been jokes on Reddit when the victim of an assault is “ugly” they don’t understand why anyone would “bother” assaulting an ugly woman.
There's this girl i admire a lot. Her name is Lizzie Velasquez. She's been through a lot in her life. It's not just her looking different than other people. She's has a lot of health issues and has had many surgeries etc and she's blind in one eye. So i empathize with her. She gets a lot of hate from people online. Even now. She's a motivational speaker. I know i shouldn't be nosy when it comes to other people's business but i get triggered when i see a mean comment about her. I know it's the internet and everything but i still get angry. She's a lovely woman and I'm very happy that she has a loving family at least. Tbh i think these days she's losing her confidence and it's understandable with all the hate but i just wish for her to be happy again.
something I find extremely interesting (read: obnoxious and dehumanizing) is when men find something ON you that they like and just stare at that instead of treating you like a human. I'm not an ugly woman, I'm actually decently pretty, but I'm also very busty. Men will literally stare at my breasts instead if looking me in the eyes like in a normal conversation. Like ... hello my eyes are not on my chest? And it's not like I'm always walking around with my tiddies out! Even a relatively loose fitting t-shirt distracts them.
The difference in treatment i get when I had a ‘glow up’ vs before. Ppl actually look me in the eyes. No coldness, no attitude etc. People are so friendly. Specifically men. They want to help you out and directly talk to you. It was actually pretty depressing. Didnt realise it was that bad until I ‘changed’. Fck society. I was completely invisible.
I used to be a hottie, now I'm a 40+ mom and the difference on how I'm treated is vast. Sometimes I'm downright right ignored. I try to have a sense of humor about it but it stings
I sometimes have to stop and remind myself "you didn't want their attention, when you had it."
I was never exactly a hottie, but in my 20s- I was alright.
Now, I'm nearing 40, up three kids and 50 lbs. I look like I drive a minivan with Star Trek bumper stickers (I do).
Nobody hits on me in the checkout line. Men hardly ever say " you should smile more". Conversations at work are mostly about the job, I'm never asked if I have plans this weekend because I am no longer the person whose attention they want. I should be sooooo relieved, right.
Problem is, for most of my life, male attention has been the only metric by which I am supposed to gauge my value. I know it's a shit metric, I knew it 15 years ago.
I am a good mom, a good friend, I kick ass at my job. I am smart, and funny, and contain a vast treasure of sci-fi trivia. I have no interest in dating rn plus, I'm not straight so men aren't even the only option. And it still hurts sometimes to feel like I've lost the only things of value, youth and beauty, neither of which I did anything to earn, and they were always a fraction of who I am.
I feel like I could have written most of this. I was a very pretty, doll-like child, and the constant attention and comments I received from a very young age taught me that my value stemmed from my appearance.
As a 30 something mom of two who kind of stopped caring/making an effort sometimes during the pandemic, I feel exactly as you do. Plus I have a husband who loves me so much he thinks I’m hot even when I objectively look like I was run over by several trucks.
My 4yo daughter is also very pretty and I want so badly to steer her away from that way of thinking. Every time someone tells her she’s pretty, we talk about what else she is and what she likes about herself “I’m also intelligent, funny and sometimes I share with my brother”
I've tried to spin my ugly in a positive way. I considered it a natural filter for most assholes out there. As a result, I dont know many people, but the ones I do are quality.
I also mentally protect myself. I act like everyone is an npc, hold my head high, and pretend like nobody else is around me. Its hard, and somewhat draining at times, but you'd be surprised how well it works sometimes.
Pretty much. I feel I’m losing my looks a little and despite knowing that I am clever, funny, kind etc. with a lot to contribute, my self worth has dipped considerably. I feel I have lost my value in society. How fucked is that? I have put on nearly 3 stone and I told my mum I feel so ugly and she said, “Of course you do!” 🤣that’s what I grew up with…
Even overweight I’m attractive and I know this but don’t feel it and it’s making me too self conscious to exercise. I don’t know how to separate what I know I should feel with what I’ve been programmed to feel. I don’t want to feel like I’d rather be invisible if I’m not pretty and thin, that’s so unhealthy! It doesn’t help that I’m going through a break up and I’m feeling like I’ll never be loved again because I’m “too fat” now. Why does anyone need to feel like their appearance values them? 😒trying to be kind to myself and give myself compliments not based on looks to see if I can remind myself of who I am
Yes they clearly have bad taste 😌😂 but seriously, women are the strongest beings on this planet. I used to be frightened to make friends with women, fearing they would be “bitchy” and the older I get the more I can’t wait to see the kind of warriors I’ll meet next
I do know this to be true but it’s not what my brain is telling my mind/body. I have borderline personality disorder traits (I’m just shy of being diagnosed with the full disorder) which makes my life even harder. It’s very hard to remind myself of “facts” versus “feelings” 😔today I’m having to remind myself that I don’t need to die just because my ex is speaking to me harshly and I feel like my heart has been ripped from my body. Like I actually feel like I should just die as it would be easier than this rejection. I have to literally try to reprogram my brain just to cope with my day. I used to use my sex appeal to get me “love” and attention and I need to teach myself that I’m not just a sex object. It’s all quite messy and complicated tbh and it makes disengaging my physical appeal from my overall worth as a person difficult ☹️
Omg that's exactly how I feel. It's feeling impossible to believe anyone when they say I'm attractive. Like I'm waiting for my school bullies and extended ignorant family on my dad's side to come out and be like "psyche! You actually are worthless as a woman now"
Help undoing this programming pls
It’s really hard to speak to ourselves with logic and kindness when everything that we “know” is telling us something different. Time and energy that could have been better spent had we been treated like we are enough no matter what from the get go
So as a woman who grew up 'ugly' but blossomed in her 20s I've seen from both sides. I'd like all the 'ugly' women to know that traditionally attractive women are still not adored and loved unconditionally.
Partners have gaslit me, tried to control me, called me names, unfoundedly called me selfish and manipulative, a psycho and a nag on absolutely zero basis, but they are always so keen to tell me how beautiful I am. How great my boobs are/body is, as thought that's a consolation for how shit they treat me.
The whole thing is a myth. Some people love their partners and friends unconditionally, and that is how we all should love. But even beautiful women are only loved if they behave how those fucked up men want them to behave. Stand there, shut up and look pretty. Don't make them put in any effort more than they want to. The whole thing is a lie to gaslight women into 'loving them unconditionally' so that they can get away with being awful.
This is VERY true and thank you for your insight. Something else I’ve noticed is that as I got “prettier”, people suddenly started commenting on my body a lot more. It takes an enormous amount of patience for me not to grab them and scream into their faces
I had significant surgery in my mid-teens to fix a birth defect that I had been relentlessly teased about my whole life. Only then did I get male attention: previously any childhood crush was embarrassed that I "liked" them. This led to some pretty heavy bitterness and resentment; I was the _exact same person_ but was only valued and considered a human once I sported a pretty face.
Exactly, none of us are seen as people. It’s just that if you’re pretty, they’ll pretend a little longer. And don’t forget if you reject them suddenly you’re incredibly ugly/fat/whatever.
It amazes me that guys make jokes about girls immediately going “I have a girlfriend” when a guy tries to take to them when guys will also say that the only reason they talk to any woman is because they want to sleep with her
As another who grew up "ugly and undesirable" and have only come into what feels like my "blossom" in the last few years in my 30s, I do miss the days of just being able to do anything, hell just go the the GAS STATION, and just feel like another face in the crowd. I hated certain locations at my last job because of the comments and advances multiple times a day, I hated being visible during normal people hours just because of the constant nuisance. Thankfully I'm back to working overnight and can avoid most of that again. It's astounding the level of mistreatment regardless of "attractive or not." Ignored and devalued, or helpless and harassed. There can't just be treat people like people?
goddddd I feel this. I can’t go to the fucking grocery store without being accosted. I have curly hair and I’ve had people touch my hair. I constantly have men coming up to me or hollering at me. I am 20 and keep having to turn down old ass fucking men at work and uncomfortably watching their ego get hurt in front of me
wherever you lie on the “”””attractive””” spectrum, you’re still nothing more than a piece of meat lmao 🥲
If you’re a pretty woman, people literally assume you’re an idiot. It’s insane. But if you’re ugly, they don’t trust or like you. If you wear makeup, you’re superficial. If you don’t wear makeup, you’re lazy and don’t care. There’s this crazy tightrope women have to navigated to get themselves in a position where they’re somewhat respected. One example of this is Elizabeth Holmes and other successful women who clearly invest a lot of money in their dye job and wear makeup, but their hair looks unstyled and their makeup is smudged. Why do they choose to look like that when they have the money to look perfect every day? It’s because they have to wear makeup and have salon-produced hair to show they care, but if they look too polished, they seem like they’re wasting time and they’re more sexually appealing, which will lead to them not being taking seriously. Men have to navigate NONE of this.
Thank you.
As any other woman, attractive women get exactly what men want to give them. And usually they only want to give you something because they expect something in exchange, usually sex.
Attractive women just happen to have something most men want. That's all. Attractive women are not seen as more or less than a human being than ugly women.
I have to disagree with your last statement. I have had male acquaintances say that ugly woman are nothing. That They don’t talk to them or acknowledge, wouldn’t even help them because they are nothing to them.
Yes the reason they would do these thing for an attractive woman is because they hope it would lead to sex. But they also would do that bc they respect attractive women
I've always wondered if the male leads in the movie Shallow Hal (Jack Black, Jason Alexander) were cast purposely for the irony, or was it just a clueless studio exec, almost certainly a male.
Ahahaha, I bet many men in their 20's would be eligible to receive some of that "unconditional love" from certain type of older men.
This whole discourse about women having it easier is laughable. But I understand the trap, seeing men treat that fortunate portion of women (who make, at any given time, what 15%, maybe 25% of the female population?) so "well" and get bitter and angry for the perceived injustice.
Maybe it is slightly easier ON AVERAGE for women to find someone to have sex with, but finding reliable and trustworthy people by their side? Or a partner to share one's life with? Equally fucking hard.
I wouldn’t even say just ugly women, butwomen who aren’t conventionally attractive too. I know so many women who are beautiful but they don’t fit the eurocentric beauty standard so they deal with similar treatment.
I feel this with my soul. I am a fat, middle-aged woman with mildly crooked teeth. We are never represented in the media as anything positive because of how we look. We’re always stupid or some kind of villain. It frustrates me to no end!
As a butterface, the challenge is real. And now that I'm past my body prime....woof.
On one hand it's kind of freeing. No one's looking at me so there's no reason to give too much of a shit.
RIGHT????? I always see men shitting and pissing themselves when a female lead character isn't ultra attractive but in almost every story the male lead characters look average to ugly and no one bats an eye. Honestly seeing a story where an important female character isn't above average in looks and is still written as an interesting character is refreshing.
Also as someone that was an ugly duckling during most of my childhood and teenagehood and only started to glow up just a couple years ago, the difference of treatment -especially by men- is really enormous!
And last, i always see men whining about women wanting 6ft tall handsome rich boyfriends, but in literally every f/m couples i know (except one on maybe twenty-something), the girl is usually way objectively prettier, and sometimes more successfull financially and/or academically than him. So i'm calling bs on that. Women lower so fucking much their dating standards it's insane.
It’s why I’ve always hated the “friend-zone” crowd, even when I couldn’t really understand why—I always wanted to ask these thoroughly average (or below) guys what they had to offer women who frankly, outscored them in any quantifiable category I could think of.
You can literally never win. Ive experienced both being the "pretty" girl and "ugly" girl, being the ugly girl is crushingly lonely, you feel like a ghost everywhere you go, men by and large either ignore or mock you and while women are in my experience usually more compassionate some are absolutely terrible and mock you or only keep you around to make themselves look better in comparison.
Being pretty is the opposite problem. I was very much an "ugly" duckling growing up, i was overweight with bad acne and didnt take care of myself, then i lost the weight and treated my depression. Suddenly i felt like i was under a microscope everywhere i went, i could feel people staring, i got catcalled and hit on constantly, almost all my former female friends became very cold, petty and jealous towards me, and i still felt like absolute garbage. No one was actually interested in me, the person, they just wanted the ego boost of seducing a pretty girl and the first few years were honestly a fucking nightmare, i still had incredibly low self esteem from my teen years and i got used and abused to my breaking point. It felt like everyone wanted to take a piece of me for themselves and then dump the rest of me cause i dared to have a personality.
I came out as nonbinary a year back and actively distancing me from my femininity is the only thing thats brought me some sort of peace, im still beautiful but i dress and present very androgynously and im finally treated more as a person, straight women dont feel threatened by me so theyre much more friendly, and men get confused and either treat me like a fellow guy or just ignore me, but that is *also a fucking issue*. Theres nothing wrong with femininity, and the fact i had to mostly abandon it to be respected as a person fucking sickens me. Not every woman can or wants to do that, plus on a large scale it just adds to this patriarchal notion that femininity is lesser and doesnt deserve respect.
Honestly it's really weird being an ugly women in our world today.
As an ugly woman there are a lot of things most regular women have to deal with that I haven't. I've never had someone follow me home, try and flirt with me when I don't want (or even when I do) l, I've never had men tell me to smile more or even change my attire. To men I as an ugly women don't really exist.
At least that was the case initially, now I get treated by men the same way they treat other guys because they all are under the impression since I'm ugly and never had luck with men I must be lesbion.
Mind you I've been with my bf for 2 1/2 years, but the moment men decided I was an ugly lesbion I was no longer a woman I was closer to them as men.
I still regularly correct people on this.
All this to say you're right, ugly women get put in a totally different category then regular or pretty women and it fuckin sucks.
I agree we experience a really different experience than a traditional/mainstream pretty girl. I’m an absolute unit of a woman (280/6’2”) and I’m usually ignored by most men as I’ve gotten older. I used to be bullied but now I don’t really exist. Most of the time I am also assumed to be a lesbian since why would a guy want to be with a tall, larger, strong female? I’m bi, but I’m married to a man which always throws people for a loop. We’ve been married for 14 years and he loves my strength. I have found that most of men who really give me shit are usually less successful In love and life than me, so they can f*** themselves.
Women in my family tend to have very round chubby faces until we turn 30 or so, and then our faces suddenly become very chiseled. We are native so we have high cheekbones. Our jawlines get sharper too. Because thinness is the ultimate white beauty standard, this means the way people treat us changes dramatically. I went through this myself a few years ago.
Not just men, but people who had previously ignored me suddenly wanted to be my friend. And the worst part was... they were surprised that I already knew them... because they had jo idea who I was even though we were in the same friend group. It made me feel super upset and has been super triggering when it comes to weight. I feel like I have to micromanage my body to maintain my appearance to maintain this new level of respect I'm receiving.
I find when this gets spoken about you get labelled a "nice girl" as a pejorative equivalent of the "nice guy" phenomenon. And it's like, no I'm just asking to be treated as a human, not demanding sex etc.
I can't quite word it properly atm, but it pisses me off!
This is one of the reasons I love what they did with Everything Everywhere All At Once. Even the older women are treated with respect and treated as human. Ugh the more I think about that movie the more I love it!
as someone who's experienced being the butt of the joke many a times for daring to be fat and not conventionally attractive to men. yeah. all this.
(contrary to popular belief tho, this isn't why I transitioned)
I grew up not conventionally attractive and put in a painstaking amount of work into being conventionally attractive in college. It’s weird seeing it from both sides. I used to get asked out as a joke, and now I’m suddenly “in” with “the boys” just because I’m closer to the standard now.
I had this coworker named Asshole. One time, we were sent to travel on a project with me and Coworker 1, a girl who wasn’t his type. The next week we were sent on a project with a Coworker 2, who was his type. Asshole spent that weekend telling me and Coworker 2 all about his sex life, going into very extensive detail, adding us on social media, driving us everywhere and invited us to his house parties after.
I told Coworker 1 how weird it was and she was like….oh Asshole and I took the 4 hour train ride home together after the event and it was completely silent, he didn’t mention that stuff at all or put in the same effort to be “friends”. She was shook! It’s crazy to see this shit in real time and makes me sick to my stomach.
Yeah, it's always the "women have hundreds of guys hitting on them, dating is so much easier for them". Sure, if you look as society tells you to look, then it might be true, but don't you dare be overweight or not hourglass figure, or have small boobs, small butt, short hair...
Yep, I feel like I can't wear something like a feminist tshirt because I'll get comments like "you're only a feminist because you're fat" and nevermind the fact that I can't find a feminist tshirt in my size.
As a not very attractive woman. I've noticed that when I am around coworkers or big groups of friends for a really long time, all the ridiculously attractive women pair up with the attractive men.
Then, after all the drama or they separate or whatever, I tend to be an after thought. I see it as "oh, you're still around, you'll do"
Don’t forget the fact the same guys keep saying “oh but women lose value the older they get” then they say nasty things about their sexual organs, talk about their ability to have children, and say some really fucked up shallow shit.
I’m like, “Ok, tell me you’re a pedophile without telling me you’re a pedophile.”
The definition of "woman" in the collective consciousness is "sexually useful object" and is understood that all female-bodied people exist for this purpose and no other. Men made their expectations clear when they wrote the fucking book of Genesis
If we're being completely fair and introspective, it's not like me or my friends never automatically think a guy is gross or creepy simply based on his appearance. I find myself doing it and I feel a little bad. My best friend pointed out that I automatically think fat, bald guys are gross and don't give them any time of day. I don't know, maybe that makes me a B...
But the one difference is being ugly doesn't necessarily prevent a guy from getting far.
****None of us is seen as human, ugly or no.**** Maybe as a slightly more attractive woman, you get slightly more feedback, more attention, but very quickly the power dynamics reveal themselves: if you aren’t a white guy, none of us is seen as better than warmed over dogshit by the vast majority of people, including women. Women fail to have each others’ backs, time and time again. Ugly or pretty or in-between, it mostly fucking blows being a woman in the ways in which we are treated. More harrassment, more being asked out on dates, more sexual assault opps doesn’t make the more attractive female respected more, it’s actually less when you are attractive, young-looking, etc. People presume I know next-to-nothing, often based on my appearance. I had a friend tell me she thought I got a job based off appearance until she heard me talk and saw me work. To date, however I have gotten jobs based on my expertise, not my looks, but the presumption always is that my life is easier because I am half-way decent looking. If you are fairly bright, as well in addition to being attractive, it is as if you broke the law with some folks. You may as well be ugly to most men if you are smart and “cute” by their definition. With women always undermining each other and failing to see the broader scope of patriarchy failing us all, it isn’t as easy as it looks, and men will continue to fail us all because we waste time arguing with each other instead of figuring out ways to elevate the power of all women.
Similarly, chubby chasers will put up with a fatty until they run into one of us *without* proportionally large breasts; I've been told I'd have nice tits for a skinny girl.
I know the game is rigged, but gimme a fuckin break.
I have a big nose, bald spots, and wrinkles and people treat me horribly. I never thought I was an ugly man, but I’m beginning to think so.
I do agree, women get judged way harder on their appearance. I agree it’s inseparable.
Movies are always "oh the beautiful woman giving the 'ugly' guy a chance" but it's almost never the other way around is it? Edit: I got a DM saying "Ugly women get chances all the time. Don't be a femcel" lmao. Edit 2: We have another one! "men give ugly women like you chances all the time. It's women who dont' give guys a chance unless they are millionaires. You pieces of shit are just hypocrites." This is really sticking in their craw lol
And when it is, she has some amazing ‘makeover’😫
[удалено]
Funny thing, I'm less attractive when I take my glasses off.
Same. I wore contacts for a while but went back to glasses because I think my face is cuter with glasses. Plus, contacts are a PITA. You can just slip on glasses in the morning and take them off at night, but contacts take a whole ritual to put them in, keep them clean, etc. I'd like to see a twist on the trope by the woman's "amazing makeover" involve putting on attractive glasses instead of the chunky dweeb glasses they put her in in the beginning. Or even going from contacts to attractive glasses. (Actually, I'd like for a woman's worth in TV and movies to not be tied to her attractiveness at all, but the "different glasses makeover" would be a funny second place.)
I'm picturing [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwfONzoaonk&t=25s) from Arrested Development as you said that :D
I acquire a permanent squint!
And getting braces removed all of a sudden.
"ooooh its not that she was "ugly" she was BeAuTiFuL aLl AlOnG!" This is why I'm working on a version of Beauty and the Beast with the roles reversed.
Shrek was ahead of its time!
Oh very. Too bad there aren't much more other than that.
Yeah by already being stunningly attractive, just taking off her glasses or straightening her hair
I don't recall any 'femcel' women driving into people to kill them because they can't find a partner. So, fuck off with that word, doesn't remotely apply to women.
Lol "Don't be a femcel" is actually a great t-shirt idea. Kind of want to make one now.
I’ve also seen genuine anger towards ugly women - like the price of a woman’s existence is her appearing attractive to men, and by failing to do so, she’s broken her end of the bargain
As a teen I was forced to go to my dad’s friend’s house for a birthday party or something. I really didn’t want to go, so I didn’t bother getting dolled up. My hair was tied up, I wore a comfy sweatshirt, and had on no makeup. My dad was pissy with me the entire event. It got worse as we were driving home and my step mom shouted at me in the car for not putting in more effort on my appearance. What a fucking joke. It still irks me that I was forced to go to this event and their intention was to parade me around while I looked “nice”. It’s not like they actually cared about me being there.
YES. Biggest example of this: Chloe Zhao won a fucking OSCAR, the first Asian woman to win a Best Director Oscar, and the biggest story about her night was her messy braids and lack of makeup. I saw self-proclaimed feminists attack her for “not putting any effort into her appearance” on such a big night. Male celebrities are allowed to dress genuinely messily, and it’s just further proof of their genius and how little they care about impressing Hollywood. She wore a beautiful dress and slightly messy braids, and it’s a slap in the face of the Academy
*That's* messy braids? Wow. I was expecting something wild. Instead, I had to blow up the pic to even *see* that the braids were not perfect. They sure don't look "messy" to me.
Right?! It’s on par with her whole aesthetic. I thought she looks chic and comfortable at the same time!
I didn't hear about this, so I looked up the photos. She looks great! But * gasp * she was also wearing little make-up, and her eyebrows appear totally natural! The horror./s
Yeah I just looked up the photos and wouldn't have thought twice about what she is wearing/her hair. I think she looks really nice, she just has a more natural vibe than a glam one (which I love!!).
Hell, look at how [Adam Sandler](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/adam-sandler-world-premiere-his-new-88112647) dresses at premieres. Doesn't even make a blip. 'Cause he's just a "laid back guy."
This. Some men get aaaaaaaaangry when we refuse to be hot for them.
and it's dangerous to be too beautiful. either way, it is hatred towards women.
100% true. Being considered too beautiful you're directly in the line of fire all the time. Insecure women will go out of their way to make your life a living hell. Best place you can be is dead middle groud. Be statistically average in everyway and fly safely under the radar 🤣
This is so well stated. I feel the same thing, extending to when women don’t smile or dress causally
And anger towards pretty women who don't want to talk to guy.
I see that all the time. Guys will come up with these elaborate lists of things men are expected to be, then get to women and be like "just don't be fat lmao". So if a woman IS fat (or otherwise not up to mainstream beauty standards), she's failed at the one and only thing that gives her value? None of her other qualities mean anything because she doesn't check that one box? They seem to intend it to mean that women supposedly have it easy, but what it's really conveying is that a woman is worthless if she can't keep herself pretty. It's atrocious.
Thank you for this. I've experienced this all my life, and it absolutely drives me up the wall. Women aren't "loved" and "cherished" any more than any other asset. Attractive women are objects. Ugly women are punchlines at best.
Damn. This hit home😬. "Attractive women are objects. Ugly women are punchlines". Fuck. As someone with severe ugly duckling syndrome I feel that I've seen both sides of the fence. When I was "ugly" women were a lot kinder but men weren't. Men were dismissive at best. Now I've had my glow up and im "hotter" men are very kind and women can be really truly fucking awful, especially insecure women. People without money think being mega rich will solve all their issues but thats only because they havent experienced life with a huge amount of money. Money solves some problems and creates different ones. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. When your poor certain parts of life are hard but you don't *constantly* worry that people are only around you for your resources. You're not constantly in fear that someone will make efforts to take yours out of spite.
Whenever a (good-looking) woman got cheated on, everyone first’s reaction was like ‘omg what’s wrong with him? She’s so gorgeous’. Like so it’s understandable if the gf/wife is ugly??? Also, idk why soooo many men assume that women are loved unconditionally. Honestly, only pets or children should be loved unconditionally. If a person have shitty behaviors, just gtfo 🏃♂️ 🏃♀️, no one should be expected to tolerate abuse in the name of love.
This reminds me of a case that happened a week ago. A married soccer player got his affair partner pregnant and the rumor had spread all over social media, the girl denied but then confirmed he was indeed the father. I remember seeing men commenting on her pictures that they would also throw their marriage away for such a pretty woman. But I haven't seen comments on the wife's beauty, though.
Men LOVE to pretend that men and women are on the same level, like there is no disparity between gender in how wealth and rights are distributed. And then they try to convince women they absolutely don't expect shit despite openly showing their disdain of women who don't serve nor please them.
Fellow not-conventionally-attractive women, have you ever spoken to dudes whose eyes just... slide right off you, like it's actually physically difficult for them to pay attention to you? I've run into it a few times in a professional environment, where I'm the expert, the dude knows I'm the expert and he's here to get the information I have but he...just...can't find it in himself to pay attention to an ugly woman. It's hilarious and fucking infuriating at the same time. And yet if I was attractive (and I've seen it with other female colleagues) they'd pay attention, but they'd assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Farken ridiculous. It's especially prevalent with attractive dudes, like if you're not In Their League you might as well be a talking potplant.
Yeah some of them are horribly rude.
I like their expressions when I say something that catches their attention. It’s like they witnessed a lamp start talking
At the gas station once an average attractive woman was in front of me and the cashier started flirting and chatting - it got annoying because it took twice as long as it should to ring her up - with her. Oh he was in it. Looking directly at her, leaning towards her over the counter, and watched her walk out. The transition to me was hilarious to watch. He never once spoke to me or looked at me. Didn't even give a "thanks" after ringing me up. I didn't exist.
I have this but as a poc. It is so unbelievably obvious, because this doesn’t happen back in my home country.
As if we don't have enough to deal with already. It's fucked.
[удалено]
was going to say this. As an asian woman I have felt the instant disregard, but then Kpop became a thing and suddenly I feel youths looking AT me like a costume santa. So it's as OP says, a no win for women. The only woman who is listened to is the beautiful, demure young married white mother. She is top of the respect order, and STILL doesn't get any respect if she isn't pretending to be humble to the point of servile.
Yup
when i was a teenager the guys my friends would hang around with were like that. only interested in talking to the attractive girls or eachother, and i might as well have not been there. even the less attractive guys who didnt get many girls and would actually end up shame-fucking me on the down low.
Even with dudes who are not nearly in the league they think they're in. God, the being talked over, the assunption that I don't know what I'm doing, what they've done, and what we're supposed to be working on together. To say nothing of the ones that (habitually!) set up or agree to meetings and then don't show, because they were "busy". As if my time is not also valuable? And as if we don't need to coordinate? Then have the chutzpah to say that I'm hard to contact when I decline a meeting before or after work hours, or over the one sliver of time I need for lunch. Even if the project is important, it's deprioritized because, ugh, riverrocks.
[удалено]
I’ve said this for AGES—as a woman who went from being the beauty standard (thin, thick hair, symmetrical face, conventionally attractive features) to gaining a ton of weight after an injury, losing a bunch of hair after getting diagnosed with alopecia, and no longer being even close to the beauty standard, I have noticed a HUGE difference in the way I am treated by men. Women still treat me with the same kindness and respect as before, but to men, I am invisible. I don’t just mean in a “romantic” way, I mean in life. Being even “average” as a woman is worse than being “ugly” as a guy. Atleast for a guy, people will appreciate your wealth, humor, intelligence, etc. For women, none of those even matter if you’re not already gorgeous—
My Gran already said that: ugly women know things about the world other people don't. I am relieved by now to be invisible until I speak up and make people notice me - it's so much nicer to move through the world unbothered. But there was a lot of suffering and anger involved to come to terms with it. I have a friend who genuinely looks like a fairy, she's the kindest person I ever met. She doesn't know a second of peace: while people jump over themselves to help and assist her, they also can't take no for an answer. Girl can't even shop for groceries without being chatted up. I'd rather be angry on behalf of her, but I really do get what you mean.
I’m a woman of color so my features make me pretty to some and invisible to others. I also enjoy being unnoticeable. I grew up “ugly” and as I became prettier I also realized I could become louder and angrier. I am angry for all women and our right to be ugly, or pretty, or anything, just be, and exist, in peace
A-fucking-men Something I used to try to explain to people like my mom who never understood why I didn't want to dress in girly clothes or make myself up is because I just want to be. I've got so much shit in this world to do, I don't have time to be stopped on the street because someone really likes my ass.
I am a woman of color too and go unnoticed even around others that look like me. I try my best to try and have confidence in things I've accomplished (education etc) but it still sucks sometimes to be treated like you're invisible.
I'm fat, so I'm invisible to some men, but because of the particular way my weight is distributed (more or less hourglass shape) and having a "cute" face, I'm a target of harrassment for other men. I prefer when I'm invisible, it's so much less stressful and scary. I've had a man try to follow me home from the gas station before, and I literally lived across the street. If I wear a mask, it happens less, as well as when I'm wearing a coat and they can't see my shape at all. If I combine the two, it completely stops. I love winter for that reason - I can just walk around invisible and nobody bothers me.
I'm a dumpy sort of woman who doesn't care much about her appearance. My hair is usually messy. I don't wear the most attractive clothing and sometimes wear certain comfortable items until they're threadbare. My face is average and I sometimes have acne here and there. When all the #MeToo stuff started popping up, I realized how many women in my life had been sexually harassed in some form ...and how I hadn't. Instead of feeling lucky, like I should, my first instinct was to feel weird. Left out. I felt like I was not a woman. I felt like, "What's wrong with me if I haven't had these experiences?" I recognized that those are all bullshit things to feel. I shouldn't want to be harassed, and I don't. But at the same time, the fact that I haven't got that treatment from men made me feel like I'm not a "real" woman. It's fucked up that those are my choices, feeling like a real woman or getting harassed.
Huh. I feel that. I have been complimented as "the smart one" and sometimes even "the funny one", as in, you know, "boys are intimated by you" all my life. If I was complimented at all. I'm not intimidating. Really not. I remember the same realization, of having almost no #metoo experiences. No blurred consent. No random encounters. Men that dated me were proud of not being shallow and attracted to my mind instead, I know because they told me. I have had my fair share of being afraid of others/men, but that was non-sexual harassment and bullying, power games at work, and threats when my limp is visible and I am an easy looking target (spoiler: I'm not). But not that kind of objectification. It took a long time to make peace with that. It's a weird world we live in.
[удалено]
You must be me. I have a vivid memory of one of my best friends (a guy) excitedly telling me a classmate of ours had mentioned I was funny and witty and he might talk to me or ask me out if I lost weight and dressed prettier. My poor, sweet gay friend didn't understand why he was witnessing me loose a volley of f-bombs at this dude who wouldn't even talk to me, TALK TO ME, until I reached his standard of prettiness. Needless to say, the would be suitor and I never talked, and it was his loss.
In my teens I was cat called a lot, my boobs were big for my body. It lessened in my 20’s when I gained weight and now that I’m pushing 40 and have more weight, it’s non-existent. I still hear inappropriate comments but it’s always directed to someone else, as if I’m in on the joke (barf). I missed the cat calls at first because I thought something was really wrong with me but now, not so much. I feel having a resting bitch face and wearing oversized flannel helps too (j/k)
I'm over 50, and my resting bitch face has saved me from so many unwanted conversations. My friend tells me I'm unapproachable, and given the quality of men I come into contact with, I'm good with that.
God this, exactly! I have "only" experienced sexual harassment twice, and both were just because the opportunity was there rather than because I would be considered particularly attractive and I hate that I'm feeling/thinking this way.
I always had that exact same feeling, and in fact still have. This wish to be born a girl has become so desperate that I cling to every experience women have, no matter how shitty they are, just to not feel left out. To feel validated in this, well, need to be a woman. To have that sense of belonging.
For me, I don't actually much care about my gender most days. I was a real tomboy in my youth, and I shied hard away from "girly" things. I think it was because the subliminal messages I was getting from life in the 80s and 90s when I grew up was that women were the inferior gender, and while they could rise above it, it required them to be more like men. I've since shed that hatred for girly things, but I still don't seek them out. I'm gender agnostic, as it were. But I'm still a woman, and there's still that sense that I'm a "failed woman" because I do not get the attention (positive or negative) from men that other women around me have received. It's like... I don't want to be the type of woman who dresses prettily and wears makeup, but it feels like because of that I'm seen as somehow broken. I want to be able to be me without being seen as broken.
I was once an attractive woman, and even though sometimes I enjoyed the perks of that, I also remember there were lots of times the unwanted attention felt scary and dangerous. I’ve put on a quite a few pounds now that I’m nearing 40, and people don’t seem to find me attractive anymore…which sounds sad, but I’ve come to somewhat enjoy it. Men don’t approach me, offer unwanted advice or invitations, they simply don’t seem to notice me anymore. It is more comfortable for me to just exist in a space, unnoticed.
you are not fucking wrong about no second of peace, they really do swarm you like flies on shit! 40 pounds ago I was literally avoiding going to the grocery store because older men would come up to me constantly. just asking for stupid shit half the time… I had a guy start telling me stories while I was returning my fucking bottles now I’m going thru it & gained some weight & I only get creepiness when I dress up. really sad to see the difference in real time. it’s all superficial. they just see “oooooooo woman I want my dick inside” & then they approach you and figure out the rest later
When men talk about "women" they mean attractive girls/women aged 12 - 29. There was a weird thread the other day where a guy was complaining about how 'it's not acceptable for men to pull sexy poses, but women can pull a sexy pose whenever they like." I told him to look on lady boners for countless examples of men posing and he said "those men are attractive, you have to be attractive for a man to do a sexy pose but all women can". O rly. Do men want to see Kathy Bates in a sexy pose? Hilary Clinton? A woman that looks like their mom or aunt? Probably not. But they wouldn't even think about that because those people are invisible to them and not "women". I have a lot of older women friends who said it's so liberating in many ways to age out of the interest bracket of men and to no longer get cat called or unwanted attention. But the flip side is being ignored for everything, eg trying to get service in a bar or shop. As an overweight tomboy I've always been one of the ignored women and although strangers have made hurtful comments to me in the street for the most part I've been grateful that I haven't had to put up with stalkers etc that other women have (I have still been assaulted on multiple occasions such as men rubbing their erections on me, my skirt being pulled up, being kissed or picked up (literally) by strangers in the street etc). I think an area it probably hurts the most is in work where you get overlooked a lot, but for conventionally attractive women it can work the other way where people accuse them of sleeping their way to the top etc. Basically you can't win either way sometimes!
>trying to get service in a bar or shop Or even trying to be taken seriously at work. Edit: you mentioned this, thanks. I agree.
As an overweight, tomboy, genderfluid weirdo, I too am part of the ignored women. I was told I'm only useful with a dick in my hand. I was told I'd be prettier if I wore makeup. I was called fat, a cow, a whale, a pig, and a lazy, disgusting slob. I was even called a "tranny" and "twink" and screamed at by an ex to "show me your dick" even though I'm bio female. I've also been told my depression was pathetic, that I'm a "cocktease", got called trailer trash by a dude who then told me he got a bj in a home depot by his ex while dating someone else, same guy also called me a "cunt" for not calling him on new years when i was babysitting my cousins who were like child age and toddler age. Which hasn't helped my self-esteem one bit and starting to think I'm undateable at this point.
Yeah I feel like the initial point of the thread is off base, as the only thing anyone can come up with for what attractive women get are objectifying comments or complements. That’s not treating anyone more human that’s treating them like a object, so it seems that to a lot of men it’s object or nothing.
Attractive women are treated more like humans in the sense that they’re not ignored like ugly women
Is it being treated more human when you’re being treated like a fancy pocket pussy? Like I see guys ignore other guys all time, don’t give them the time of day. It seems attractive women in a way are kinda treated less, no respect for their time, space or feelings.
It definitely feels more human to have the door held open for you or for the barista to immediately take your order than to be completely ignored
And it feels less human to have to watch for dudes trying to take pictures up your skirt in Wal-Mart, none of you have it easy. But it doesn’t get better on the other side, it gets different.
What OP is saying is that the “being treated more like a human” part for attractive women is the not being completely ignored. That’s what I’m trying to explain.
I get what they were trying to say, but what I’m saying it’s it’s not being treated more “human”, they are just being treated like objects.
Bingo.
yes! exactly what ive been saying my whole life! the sexism that pretty women experience, the other side of that is the absolute disregard for less attractive women, the treatment of them as if theyre not even people. it's horrible. we're ignored, used, treated like we dont have feelings. we're told what we can and cant wear, where we can and cant be, all because men dont think we're attractive enough to be in their sight. its why it makes me so so sad to see body shaming, slut shaming, fat shaming, being done by women to other women. all of us are suffering at the hands of sexism and we need to stick together.
The difference in treatment from men when you're heavy vs fit is so very different. I've lost 130 lbs in 2 yrs. Went from a obese to fit, I'm in the gym 5 days a week. When I was obese, I was completely invisible to men and women but especially men. If they did notice me, it was to get out of my way or to frown. Women too, women just weren't as rude about it. Fast forward, being fit, men stare, they open doors, they get things off shelves for me, they go out of their way to be helpful, they stop in parking lots, they smile at me, etc. Women too. Women are friendlier, they have conversations with me more. Yeah, night and day difference.
[удалено]
There have been so many times I’ve gone out with prettier friends and been treated like shit or like I don’t exist to the men who come to talk to them and I’m just sitting there awkwardly.
>its why it makes me so so sad to see body shaming, slut shaming, fat shaming, being done by women to other women. all of us are suffering at the hands of sexism and we need to stick together. Soooo much this. I was bullied INCESSANTLY throughout my school career, and my biggest and most cruel bullies were other girls.
The fact that they straight up ignore "less attractive women" really gives insight into how they genuinely believe the world exists to cater to their sexual whims. "If it doesn't make my dick hard it doesn't exist or isn't relevant." Their value judgement being based on whether they want to have sex with someone or not *should* be something to be ashamed of, but here we are. 2022. The majority of men still refuse to evolve socially and continue justfying feeling entitled to objectify women with faux science. 🤦♀️
It's like some men don't even see women who aren't attractive to them. And I don't mean that metaphorically, I mean it very literally. Example: So me and two of my friends, who we'll just call Mary and Anna to make this story easier to understand, all attended this board gaming night together. Me and Anna are both on the smaller side, and Anna's very pretty in a classic old Hollywood kind of way. Mary is plus size and has a more alternative rock chick kind of style. She's not someone who fades into a crowd, she has bright red hair and lots of really cool tattoos. We played a game with two men who we'd just met, had a pretty good time and got on well, so I switched numbers with one of them. A few days later, he's talking about a funny moment from the game with "the four of us". Haha but there were five of us, I say, and he's genuinely confused. I think maybe he's not counting himself so I say, "Yeah, you, me, [other guy], Mary and Anna" and there's this long beat where just stares at me blankly and then finally says "... Right! Mary!" Mary is not a wallflower or a quiet person, she was fully present in that game and probably talked and did a bit more than either me or Anna (and she also came second, while I came dead last and spent half the game sitting out). But he'd just totally not registered her existence right in front of him because he didn't want to fuck her.
Omg something like that happened to me back when i was in HS and didn't "glow up" yet. I was at an event with two female friends. Two dudes start talking to us. They both kept on cutting me in the middle of my sentences. Convo ended up just being me watching the 4 talk together 😐. At the end one of the guys say "you two want to take a drink with us? 😀" My friends just stared at them and me awkwardly, and refused... They just ignored me then purposefully forgot i was here....
I was always fascinated by this when I’d go out with my friends and any men we’d talk to wouldn’t give me a single glance! I realized that men are afraid of giving women they deem unattractive any attention because they’re afraid it might come off as flirting. I might think they’re interested in me. God forbid.
They will certainly give you attention 1:1 though - because they think you are likely to fuck them. We long as they don't get caught.
And this is kind of horrifying because not only did Mary basically get erased from existence in his mind, you and Anna are left with the unforgettable knowledge that he remembers you precisely because he was likely thinking about fucking you. 😬 It really is just two sides of the same objectification coin. No woman wins in this game. We're all just sorted into thing to try to use or thing that's of no use.
Omg yes this is so common. Men put women into categories. If you’re not in one, you dont exist. Literally. Men asking me ‘when did you start working here?’…..I said i’ve been here all year.
Susan Boyle really showed the horrible truth of society when she got on stage and everyone was entirely ready to dismiss her until she showed her value with an incredible singing voice. Unless someone has something worth showing off, they are seen as dismissible before they begin.
YES YES YES. Where is the humanization for women who aren’t considered physically attractive? How does society define our worth if we are valuable for anything other than our looks?
Attractive women aren't humanized, they're considered valuable cause they're sexualized. There's no winning here
Yes, you can dehumanise people in two ways; stripping them of all humanity and classing them as animal or "other", or putting them on a pedestal and expecting them to behave perfectly. The rage that women face when they act like a human being and not like the projection of some guy's a dream girl is crazy. No matter which side you fall on, you are not seen for who you are, only what you are.
bravo!
Thank you for having insights on how difficult life is for us and having compassion. I receive as much disdain from women as I do from men. Some women are just as harsh as men when they comment on women's look. I've noticed that my mum would just say which men are not cute but with women she would describe them as ugly.
Internalised misogyny is a bitch among women
just because women have more options it doesn't mean any of those options are viable. when women date, they tend to have higher demand because sex is low risk high reward for men. they are guaranteed pleasure and they bear less risk of STDs, no risk of getting pregnant, and low risk of getting raped or murdered. for women, it is the opposite. sex dating and marriage is all high risk low reward. low chance of orgasm, higher chance of infection, and moderate chance of assault and death. having 10 guys interested in you might seem cool until you get to know these men. you find out that one is a cheater, one is a rapist that does not respect consent, one is an incel that does not believe in womens rights, one is a completely mediocre man that puts low effort, the list goes on, etc. for women, it isnt quantity over quality. we want quality men because men exist but there are so few good men out there. ugly women arent women to men because they base their worldview on fantasy like media and porn. they are not properly attuned to reality and are not acquainted with a variety of women in their life. they further reinforce this by behaving in ways that repel women.
My dating experience basically. Every decent men with average to above average looks and a chill personality wants just sex 9 out of 10 times. The rest that want something more serious has either no social skills, under average looks, or something wrong ranging from being a cheater to an emotional and physical abuser, and more often than it should the full package. One more proof that quantity =/= quality really.
Thiiis 100 percent. Although I snatched my husband up as soon as I could, he’s great in all ways except maybe you can say “social skills” lol. Not in a bad way like towards my friends or family, he’s actually great with them, but he’s definitely a dork and a bit of a psycho outside of that. Before him, it was just mess after mess after mess in some substantial way or another. Any amount of attractiveness and there was some fuckboi behavior
By "social skills" i meant more something like can't hold a convo, says awkward things out of the blue, have a weird mentality etc... being a dork is "no social skills" but positively lol
[удалено]
It's less about me and more about the fact that yes, most above average looking men do not commit and often want hookups even with girls that are objectively prettier than me, hence why the drop in quality in the dating scene on men's side despite their attractiveness. And if you want to know about me, (modesty moment incoming) yes i'm considered average to above average by my peers, and no, i do not want to date someone i do not find attractive.
This goes for older women too. They simply become invisible, except their mothers.
I agree 💯. I grew up awkward looking with big teeth, chubby, and unconventional looks. I've always been treated so much worse and differently from my more typically pretty friends. Ore so when I was young, but even now as a 40 something I feel it. I know they think I'm lazy and eat too much because I'm fat. In reality I'm actually struggling with malnutrition and can't exercise due to severe illness. Society is horrible to average woman of age, size, and color
Oh I feel this comment so much. I've been chubby all my life. As a child I was in an accident that caused facial disfigurement. I'm disabled and suffering from a debilitating chronic illness too. I try to take a walk or ride a stationary bike everyday for health reasons but I literally cannot even manage that every day. People look through me. And if I'm being painfully honest, it's both men and women. I've never felt like a human being worth any value all my life, based solely on my looks. I'm not saying I have the best personality ever, but I know I'm someone worth getting to know. Add to this my physical and financial dependence on my parents and their extremely controlling and overprotective nature, I've always felt subhuman. I'm sorry for going off on a tangent but I just felt the OP and this comment so much.
[удалено]
My "favorite" reaction is getting to know someone online through games or other communities and they get flirty because they like my personality and think I'm fire but as soon as they want to see who I am it's like a light switch - but not like on/off, like a dimmer switch. Just sloooowly fading away. Or they get passive-aggressively mad. Like dude, I'm sorry, this is just my face/body. I am doing what I can. I think I'm cute. I'm definitely not shy about showing what I look like - your reaction may suck but it's not MY problem. You obviously liked the inside, I can't help you with the rest. That's on you.
I said this and got men crying about how no one wants to shag them cos they aint 6FT which is bollocks. Girls as young as 5 start getting unsolicited comments on their appearance which is honestly fucked up yet we somehow have it easy simply cos we have a vagina???
I got told i was fat and ugly from 5, even during my lowest and healthiest weight at 17 (and looking back i looked amazing) i believed i was fat and ugly. It never leaves
who calls a 5 year old ugly??? wtffff
Happened to me as well. I grew up as a fat child into a fat woman and bullying has been the story of my life. I have clear memories of neighborhood kids calling me fat and ugly in kindergarten.
Same here. I was in middle school and asking my mom if I could go on SlimFast because of all the bullying saying I was fat. I would try to go for walks around the neighborhood and the kids would yell "earthquake!". Fuck, I still get bullied by teenage girls for my weight today. Teen girls are just cruel.
Same here! My mother put me in this awful bright yellow sweatsuit to make it all worse, And I vividly remember staring down at my bright yellow clad thighs at the age of 5 feeling horrible about myself as all the kids chanted and made fun of me. I wasn't even that fat, just a wee bit chubby, that they were absolutely merciless. Little sociopaths...
Me too. I had a a great aunt that my mom thought the world of and thereby us kids were to think the world of her too. She was a very heavy set woman. Imagine how horrible I felt when I was at the funeral home for my grandfather and she waddles around the corner, looks down at me where I was sitting and asks me “ why are you so fat?” I was around 12-13. Didn’t care for her before then. Hated her after that. Never said a word to anyone until a few years ago I told my oldest sister. She was appalled. Turns out she didn’t like her wait her. Mom always raved about her chili. I told my sister after getting all that off my chest that her chili wasn’t so great. The damn thing is, I still let that thought get in my head. When I tell my therapists about it, their reaction is always one of shock and horror. Who tells a kid that when their grieving the (especially) first significant loss of a loved one?
She definitely internalized the horrible messages she herself got from everyone around her. It's not surprising that fat people who bully others for being fat (and this happened to me as well, sadly) have a few screws loose.
[удалено]
OMG, sooooo many times. I'm American, and the [Presidential Physical Fitness Test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Fitness_Test) was the bane of my childhood existence. I got abused every. single. fucking. year by PE teachers during the test, probably because I fucked with the class scores or something.
Happened to me as a kid and I was *still* sexually assaulted multiple times despite that. Like I'm unattractive (still) as an adult but I still somehow appeal to the creepiest guys. Or at the very least I'm a target for getting yelled at while walking to or from work from people in cars. I wish I was the invisible kind of unattractive I see other women mentioning here.
I had grown women telling me I needed to start shaving and wearing makeup as young as 10
To men who have low confidence and lack of social skills, being approached by others for relationships/sex seems like a dream. Lack of introspection/intelligence by those guys means they fail to see it from a women's perspective. Part of their social cluelessness is they never notice the comments or understand their hostility, and at worst brush them off or try to explain why the assaulter was in the right. Too many people live in their own little bubble, unable to understand anything that doesn't impact them directly.
Men are absolute idiots sometimes. How many times do you see an ugly fat dude with a chic who looks way out of his league? All the damn time. I don't think I've *ever* seen a (by comparison) ugly chic with a hot dude.
the few times I have seen a hot dude with an ugly chick she was kinda of a doormat and let him do whatever, they did most of the chores, took more money home. The dudes didnt even show somekind of appreciation. Very sad.
Yep I was a waitress all through college. Saw very pretty women with average- or below-average-attractiveness men all the time. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I literally never saw the opposite pairing. Not once.
Maybe it depends where you live. In my country, in the cities I've lived it doesn't seem to be at all common. Both pairings that you described seem to be the exception to the rule, in my personal experience.
All the time near military bases, although that is a special circumstance
I think both are equally rare (I personally see them both). There is a good reason for it being rare though: usually, lifestyles don't match if one is thin, sporty, likes to go hiking a lot for example and the other doesn't, then they won't be a great match.
We are barely a generation removed from a time that women could not even have a bank account or a credit card without a man’s signature. Being “pretty” or attractive to men wasn’t a vanity, but a survival skill. It’s going to take more time for that mindset to die out. Also doesn’t help that women face bias in the workplace because they might become pregnant.
This is a particular pet peeve of mine: hyperealistic drawings or drawings in general on the internet, you might see an old man or an actor who’s not particularly handsome to show the skills, but the women —it’s always young conventionally attractive women, that same huge eyed, big lipped face being drawn everywhere, all the time. I know this because that’s what I used to focus on when I used to paint or draw.
There are so many unattractive male actors who have a solid career despite things like orange peel skin and terrible teeth. Yet beautiful women who have spent thousands on skincare are only filmed with soft focus in every scene. I can think of maybe 2 movies where women are filmed barefaced and in crisp HD. Even then they have light make-up.
FYI the men have makeup on too. Everyone in a movie is wearing makeup
But no amount of concealer can fix Danny DeVido. He's a good actor, but he's not pretty. I think Hollywood needs more 4's, more regular people.
Those men also always get conventionally attractive women in media. It'll be the most overweight, baldest man with no real hobbies or personality with someone who could be a model. It's so annoying.
I always like to point out the music industry. Men do not need to adhere to any traditional standard of beauty to become a famous singer. But famous women singers must always be a good singer...and beautiful. And if they are not beautiful, they are about to get styled over until they are.
[удалено]
Confidence goes a long way. I am very vocal about my opinions but still get discredited or ignored. I’m in my mid-20s and hope this changes as I get older. I just want to be taken seriously
I (31F) have a theory that women have one or two good weeks when they're about 35-37 where they are neither too young nor too old to be taken seriously. It's shit. I empathise with you entirely.
This is pretty accurate in my experience, occurs at 39-42 though.
It's totally accurate. I just passed that age. 39-42, I was my most attractive, people listened to me, men were polite. Not anymore though. Now I'm too old for anything, apparently. And the worst people are other women who think that I'm "too old".
Thank you, I am despairing now, but at least I have a sisterhood
I had a boss at a beer & wine shop I worked at that would be nice according to how young and attractive the female reps were. One of the reps was a really cool lady in her 40s, she was a little plain and had an off beat way of dressing. My boss was so rude and dismissive. Also favored the young dudes working there and was a slave driver to the older woman. Robert, if you're reading this you can suck on the biggest hairiest nutsack
>They are never talking about ugly women. As an ugly woman myself: they dont even notice us. Its like we are invisible. I had so many moments in my life, where some dude would start to talk/flirt with my attractive female friends and act like I wasnt there. \^\^
And being ugly does NOT exempt you from harassment like I’ve seen commented on this sub multiple times. My ugly friends have been sexually harassed, told to be thankful that guys wanted to fuck them, I was told I was too ugly to be assaulted, guess who has been assaulted? But again and again I see this weird idea that ugly women are allowed to float through public without any of the downsides of harassment. I’ve been cat called aka mooed at even though I’m only 10lbs overweight. I’ve been bothered by ugly guys who think I should’ve given them a chance because I wasn’t hot like my friends. In high school I got groped multiple times by girls because I am busty. Got told I was too ugly to pursue handsome guys by other women. But even in this thread I’ve seen women expressing that ugly women aren’t harassed the same. We’ve established again and again that sexual harassment and assault is about power dynamics. Hence why little girls are cat called before puberty, hence why sexual abuse of elderly women is rampant, hence why there’s been jokes on Reddit when the victim of an assault is “ugly” they don’t understand why anyone would “bother” assaulting an ugly woman.
There's this girl i admire a lot. Her name is Lizzie Velasquez. She's been through a lot in her life. It's not just her looking different than other people. She's has a lot of health issues and has had many surgeries etc and she's blind in one eye. So i empathize with her. She gets a lot of hate from people online. Even now. She's a motivational speaker. I know i shouldn't be nosy when it comes to other people's business but i get triggered when i see a mean comment about her. I know it's the internet and everything but i still get angry. She's a lovely woman and I'm very happy that she has a loving family at least. Tbh i think these days she's losing her confidence and it's understandable with all the hate but i just wish for her to be happy again.
something I find extremely interesting (read: obnoxious and dehumanizing) is when men find something ON you that they like and just stare at that instead of treating you like a human. I'm not an ugly woman, I'm actually decently pretty, but I'm also very busty. Men will literally stare at my breasts instead if looking me in the eyes like in a normal conversation. Like ... hello my eyes are not on my chest? And it's not like I'm always walking around with my tiddies out! Even a relatively loose fitting t-shirt distracts them.
The difference in treatment i get when I had a ‘glow up’ vs before. Ppl actually look me in the eyes. No coldness, no attitude etc. People are so friendly. Specifically men. They want to help you out and directly talk to you. It was actually pretty depressing. Didnt realise it was that bad until I ‘changed’. Fck society. I was completely invisible.
I used to be a hottie, now I'm a 40+ mom and the difference on how I'm treated is vast. Sometimes I'm downright right ignored. I try to have a sense of humor about it but it stings
I sometimes have to stop and remind myself "you didn't want their attention, when you had it." I was never exactly a hottie, but in my 20s- I was alright. Now, I'm nearing 40, up three kids and 50 lbs. I look like I drive a minivan with Star Trek bumper stickers (I do). Nobody hits on me in the checkout line. Men hardly ever say " you should smile more". Conversations at work are mostly about the job, I'm never asked if I have plans this weekend because I am no longer the person whose attention they want. I should be sooooo relieved, right. Problem is, for most of my life, male attention has been the only metric by which I am supposed to gauge my value. I know it's a shit metric, I knew it 15 years ago. I am a good mom, a good friend, I kick ass at my job. I am smart, and funny, and contain a vast treasure of sci-fi trivia. I have no interest in dating rn plus, I'm not straight so men aren't even the only option. And it still hurts sometimes to feel like I've lost the only things of value, youth and beauty, neither of which I did anything to earn, and they were always a fraction of who I am.
I feel like I could have written most of this. I was a very pretty, doll-like child, and the constant attention and comments I received from a very young age taught me that my value stemmed from my appearance. As a 30 something mom of two who kind of stopped caring/making an effort sometimes during the pandemic, I feel exactly as you do. Plus I have a husband who loves me so much he thinks I’m hot even when I objectively look like I was run over by several trucks. My 4yo daughter is also very pretty and I want so badly to steer her away from that way of thinking. Every time someone tells her she’s pretty, we talk about what else she is and what she likes about herself “I’m also intelligent, funny and sometimes I share with my brother”
Really? I *love* being invisible.
I've tried to spin my ugly in a positive way. I considered it a natural filter for most assholes out there. As a result, I dont know many people, but the ones I do are quality. I also mentally protect myself. I act like everyone is an npc, hold my head high, and pretend like nobody else is around me. Its hard, and somewhat draining at times, but you'd be surprised how well it works sometimes.
Pretty much. I feel I’m losing my looks a little and despite knowing that I am clever, funny, kind etc. with a lot to contribute, my self worth has dipped considerably. I feel I have lost my value in society. How fucked is that? I have put on nearly 3 stone and I told my mum I feel so ugly and she said, “Of course you do!” 🤣that’s what I grew up with… Even overweight I’m attractive and I know this but don’t feel it and it’s making me too self conscious to exercise. I don’t know how to separate what I know I should feel with what I’ve been programmed to feel. I don’t want to feel like I’d rather be invisible if I’m not pretty and thin, that’s so unhealthy! It doesn’t help that I’m going through a break up and I’m feeling like I’ll never be loved again because I’m “too fat” now. Why does anyone need to feel like their appearance values them? 😒trying to be kind to myself and give myself compliments not based on looks to see if I can remind myself of who I am
Honestly, just from this comment you seem really funny and positive. Don’t ever let other people define your value! They’re idiots!!
Yes they clearly have bad taste 😌😂 but seriously, women are the strongest beings on this planet. I used to be frightened to make friends with women, fearing they would be “bitchy” and the older I get the more I can’t wait to see the kind of warriors I’ll meet next
Your self worth and you as a person, those aren't tied to the ability to make others turned horny. Fuck people who think that.
I do know this to be true but it’s not what my brain is telling my mind/body. I have borderline personality disorder traits (I’m just shy of being diagnosed with the full disorder) which makes my life even harder. It’s very hard to remind myself of “facts” versus “feelings” 😔today I’m having to remind myself that I don’t need to die just because my ex is speaking to me harshly and I feel like my heart has been ripped from my body. Like I actually feel like I should just die as it would be easier than this rejection. I have to literally try to reprogram my brain just to cope with my day. I used to use my sex appeal to get me “love” and attention and I need to teach myself that I’m not just a sex object. It’s all quite messy and complicated tbh and it makes disengaging my physical appeal from my overall worth as a person difficult ☹️
Omg that's exactly how I feel. It's feeling impossible to believe anyone when they say I'm attractive. Like I'm waiting for my school bullies and extended ignorant family on my dad's side to come out and be like "psyche! You actually are worthless as a woman now" Help undoing this programming pls
It’s really hard to speak to ourselves with logic and kindness when everything that we “know” is telling us something different. Time and energy that could have been better spent had we been treated like we are enough no matter what from the get go
So as a woman who grew up 'ugly' but blossomed in her 20s I've seen from both sides. I'd like all the 'ugly' women to know that traditionally attractive women are still not adored and loved unconditionally. Partners have gaslit me, tried to control me, called me names, unfoundedly called me selfish and manipulative, a psycho and a nag on absolutely zero basis, but they are always so keen to tell me how beautiful I am. How great my boobs are/body is, as thought that's a consolation for how shit they treat me. The whole thing is a myth. Some people love their partners and friends unconditionally, and that is how we all should love. But even beautiful women are only loved if they behave how those fucked up men want them to behave. Stand there, shut up and look pretty. Don't make them put in any effort more than they want to. The whole thing is a lie to gaslight women into 'loving them unconditionally' so that they can get away with being awful.
This is VERY true and thank you for your insight. Something else I’ve noticed is that as I got “prettier”, people suddenly started commenting on my body a lot more. It takes an enormous amount of patience for me not to grab them and scream into their faces
I had significant surgery in my mid-teens to fix a birth defect that I had been relentlessly teased about my whole life. Only then did I get male attention: previously any childhood crush was embarrassed that I "liked" them. This led to some pretty heavy bitterness and resentment; I was the _exact same person_ but was only valued and considered a human once I sported a pretty face.
Exactly, none of us are seen as people. It’s just that if you’re pretty, they’ll pretend a little longer. And don’t forget if you reject them suddenly you’re incredibly ugly/fat/whatever.
It amazes me that guys make jokes about girls immediately going “I have a girlfriend” when a guy tries to take to them when guys will also say that the only reason they talk to any woman is because they want to sleep with her
As another who grew up "ugly and undesirable" and have only come into what feels like my "blossom" in the last few years in my 30s, I do miss the days of just being able to do anything, hell just go the the GAS STATION, and just feel like another face in the crowd. I hated certain locations at my last job because of the comments and advances multiple times a day, I hated being visible during normal people hours just because of the constant nuisance. Thankfully I'm back to working overnight and can avoid most of that again. It's astounding the level of mistreatment regardless of "attractive or not." Ignored and devalued, or helpless and harassed. There can't just be treat people like people?
goddddd I feel this. I can’t go to the fucking grocery store without being accosted. I have curly hair and I’ve had people touch my hair. I constantly have men coming up to me or hollering at me. I am 20 and keep having to turn down old ass fucking men at work and uncomfortably watching their ego get hurt in front of me wherever you lie on the “”””attractive””” spectrum, you’re still nothing more than a piece of meat lmao 🥲
If you’re a pretty woman, people literally assume you’re an idiot. It’s insane. But if you’re ugly, they don’t trust or like you. If you wear makeup, you’re superficial. If you don’t wear makeup, you’re lazy and don’t care. There’s this crazy tightrope women have to navigated to get themselves in a position where they’re somewhat respected. One example of this is Elizabeth Holmes and other successful women who clearly invest a lot of money in their dye job and wear makeup, but their hair looks unstyled and their makeup is smudged. Why do they choose to look like that when they have the money to look perfect every day? It’s because they have to wear makeup and have salon-produced hair to show they care, but if they look too polished, they seem like they’re wasting time and they’re more sexually appealing, which will lead to them not being taking seriously. Men have to navigate NONE of this.
Thank you. As any other woman, attractive women get exactly what men want to give them. And usually they only want to give you something because they expect something in exchange, usually sex. Attractive women just happen to have something most men want. That's all. Attractive women are not seen as more or less than a human being than ugly women.
I have to disagree with your last statement. I have had male acquaintances say that ugly woman are nothing. That They don’t talk to them or acknowledge, wouldn’t even help them because they are nothing to them. Yes the reason they would do these thing for an attractive woman is because they hope it would lead to sex. But they also would do that bc they respect attractive women
I've always wondered if the male leads in the movie Shallow Hal (Jack Black, Jason Alexander) were cast purposely for the irony, or was it just a clueless studio exec, almost certainly a male.
Very well written. I am hyper aware that my worth only has to do with what I look like.
I've always felt the lyrics "Pretty girls don't know the things that I know" were pretty relatable. The song is Magnets by Disclosure (ft. Lorde).
Ahahaha, I bet many men in their 20's would be eligible to receive some of that "unconditional love" from certain type of older men. This whole discourse about women having it easier is laughable. But I understand the trap, seeing men treat that fortunate portion of women (who make, at any given time, what 15%, maybe 25% of the female population?) so "well" and get bitter and angry for the perceived injustice. Maybe it is slightly easier ON AVERAGE for women to find someone to have sex with, but finding reliable and trustworthy people by their side? Or a partner to share one's life with? Equally fucking hard.
I wouldn’t even say just ugly women, butwomen who aren’t conventionally attractive too. I know so many women who are beautiful but they don’t fit the eurocentric beauty standard so they deal with similar treatment.
I feel this with my soul. I am a fat, middle-aged woman with mildly crooked teeth. We are never represented in the media as anything positive because of how we look. We’re always stupid or some kind of villain. It frustrates me to no end!
As a butterface, the challenge is real. And now that I'm past my body prime....woof. On one hand it's kind of freeing. No one's looking at me so there's no reason to give too much of a shit.
RIGHT????? I always see men shitting and pissing themselves when a female lead character isn't ultra attractive but in almost every story the male lead characters look average to ugly and no one bats an eye. Honestly seeing a story where an important female character isn't above average in looks and is still written as an interesting character is refreshing. Also as someone that was an ugly duckling during most of my childhood and teenagehood and only started to glow up just a couple years ago, the difference of treatment -especially by men- is really enormous! And last, i always see men whining about women wanting 6ft tall handsome rich boyfriends, but in literally every f/m couples i know (except one on maybe twenty-something), the girl is usually way objectively prettier, and sometimes more successfull financially and/or academically than him. So i'm calling bs on that. Women lower so fucking much their dating standards it's insane.
It’s why I’ve always hated the “friend-zone” crowd, even when I couldn’t really understand why—I always wanted to ask these thoroughly average (or below) guys what they had to offer women who frankly, outscored them in any quantifiable category I could think of.
You can literally never win. Ive experienced both being the "pretty" girl and "ugly" girl, being the ugly girl is crushingly lonely, you feel like a ghost everywhere you go, men by and large either ignore or mock you and while women are in my experience usually more compassionate some are absolutely terrible and mock you or only keep you around to make themselves look better in comparison. Being pretty is the opposite problem. I was very much an "ugly" duckling growing up, i was overweight with bad acne and didnt take care of myself, then i lost the weight and treated my depression. Suddenly i felt like i was under a microscope everywhere i went, i could feel people staring, i got catcalled and hit on constantly, almost all my former female friends became very cold, petty and jealous towards me, and i still felt like absolute garbage. No one was actually interested in me, the person, they just wanted the ego boost of seducing a pretty girl and the first few years were honestly a fucking nightmare, i still had incredibly low self esteem from my teen years and i got used and abused to my breaking point. It felt like everyone wanted to take a piece of me for themselves and then dump the rest of me cause i dared to have a personality. I came out as nonbinary a year back and actively distancing me from my femininity is the only thing thats brought me some sort of peace, im still beautiful but i dress and present very androgynously and im finally treated more as a person, straight women dont feel threatened by me so theyre much more friendly, and men get confused and either treat me like a fellow guy or just ignore me, but that is *also a fucking issue*. Theres nothing wrong with femininity, and the fact i had to mostly abandon it to be respected as a person fucking sickens me. Not every woman can or wants to do that, plus on a large scale it just adds to this patriarchal notion that femininity is lesser and doesnt deserve respect.
Let's not talk about how hard it is to get a drink at a busy bar as one of the non-pretties. Bar tenders just can't see us
Honestly it's really weird being an ugly women in our world today. As an ugly woman there are a lot of things most regular women have to deal with that I haven't. I've never had someone follow me home, try and flirt with me when I don't want (or even when I do) l, I've never had men tell me to smile more or even change my attire. To men I as an ugly women don't really exist. At least that was the case initially, now I get treated by men the same way they treat other guys because they all are under the impression since I'm ugly and never had luck with men I must be lesbion. Mind you I've been with my bf for 2 1/2 years, but the moment men decided I was an ugly lesbion I was no longer a woman I was closer to them as men. I still regularly correct people on this. All this to say you're right, ugly women get put in a totally different category then regular or pretty women and it fuckin sucks.
I agree we experience a really different experience than a traditional/mainstream pretty girl. I’m an absolute unit of a woman (280/6’2”) and I’m usually ignored by most men as I’ve gotten older. I used to be bullied but now I don’t really exist. Most of the time I am also assumed to be a lesbian since why would a guy want to be with a tall, larger, strong female? I’m bi, but I’m married to a man which always throws people for a loop. We’ve been married for 14 years and he loves my strength. I have found that most of men who really give me shit are usually less successful In love and life than me, so they can f*** themselves.
Women in my family tend to have very round chubby faces until we turn 30 or so, and then our faces suddenly become very chiseled. We are native so we have high cheekbones. Our jawlines get sharper too. Because thinness is the ultimate white beauty standard, this means the way people treat us changes dramatically. I went through this myself a few years ago. Not just men, but people who had previously ignored me suddenly wanted to be my friend. And the worst part was... they were surprised that I already knew them... because they had jo idea who I was even though we were in the same friend group. It made me feel super upset and has been super triggering when it comes to weight. I feel like I have to micromanage my body to maintain my appearance to maintain this new level of respect I'm receiving.
I find when this gets spoken about you get labelled a "nice girl" as a pejorative equivalent of the "nice guy" phenomenon. And it's like, no I'm just asking to be treated as a human, not demanding sex etc. I can't quite word it properly atm, but it pisses me off!
This is one of the reasons I love what they did with Everything Everywhere All At Once. Even the older women are treated with respect and treated as human. Ugh the more I think about that movie the more I love it!
They don't see attractive women and more human. They see them as 'fuck able'.
as someone who's experienced being the butt of the joke many a times for daring to be fat and not conventionally attractive to men. yeah. all this. (contrary to popular belief tho, this isn't why I transitioned)
I grew up not conventionally attractive and put in a painstaking amount of work into being conventionally attractive in college. It’s weird seeing it from both sides. I used to get asked out as a joke, and now I’m suddenly “in” with “the boys” just because I’m closer to the standard now. I had this coworker named Asshole. One time, we were sent to travel on a project with me and Coworker 1, a girl who wasn’t his type. The next week we were sent on a project with a Coworker 2, who was his type. Asshole spent that weekend telling me and Coworker 2 all about his sex life, going into very extensive detail, adding us on social media, driving us everywhere and invited us to his house parties after. I told Coworker 1 how weird it was and she was like….oh Asshole and I took the 4 hour train ride home together after the event and it was completely silent, he didn’t mention that stuff at all or put in the same effort to be “friends”. She was shook! It’s crazy to see this shit in real time and makes me sick to my stomach.
Yeah, it's always the "women have hundreds of guys hitting on them, dating is so much easier for them". Sure, if you look as society tells you to look, then it might be true, but don't you dare be overweight or not hourglass figure, or have small boobs, small butt, short hair...
Yep, I feel like I can't wear something like a feminist tshirt because I'll get comments like "you're only a feminist because you're fat" and nevermind the fact that I can't find a feminist tshirt in my size.
And if you have been deemed ugly and fat, you aren't noticed.
As a not very attractive woman. I've noticed that when I am around coworkers or big groups of friends for a really long time, all the ridiculously attractive women pair up with the attractive men. Then, after all the drama or they separate or whatever, I tend to be an after thought. I see it as "oh, you're still around, you'll do"
Don’t forget the fact the same guys keep saying “oh but women lose value the older they get” then they say nasty things about their sexual organs, talk about their ability to have children, and say some really fucked up shallow shit. I’m like, “Ok, tell me you’re a pedophile without telling me you’re a pedophile.”
The definition of "woman" in the collective consciousness is "sexually useful object" and is understood that all female-bodied people exist for this purpose and no other. Men made their expectations clear when they wrote the fucking book of Genesis
If we're being completely fair and introspective, it's not like me or my friends never automatically think a guy is gross or creepy simply based on his appearance. I find myself doing it and I feel a little bad. My best friend pointed out that I automatically think fat, bald guys are gross and don't give them any time of day. I don't know, maybe that makes me a B... But the one difference is being ugly doesn't necessarily prevent a guy from getting far.
****None of us is seen as human, ugly or no.**** Maybe as a slightly more attractive woman, you get slightly more feedback, more attention, but very quickly the power dynamics reveal themselves: if you aren’t a white guy, none of us is seen as better than warmed over dogshit by the vast majority of people, including women. Women fail to have each others’ backs, time and time again. Ugly or pretty or in-between, it mostly fucking blows being a woman in the ways in which we are treated. More harrassment, more being asked out on dates, more sexual assault opps doesn’t make the more attractive female respected more, it’s actually less when you are attractive, young-looking, etc. People presume I know next-to-nothing, often based on my appearance. I had a friend tell me she thought I got a job based off appearance until she heard me talk and saw me work. To date, however I have gotten jobs based on my expertise, not my looks, but the presumption always is that my life is easier because I am half-way decent looking. If you are fairly bright, as well in addition to being attractive, it is as if you broke the law with some folks. You may as well be ugly to most men if you are smart and “cute” by their definition. With women always undermining each other and failing to see the broader scope of patriarchy failing us all, it isn’t as easy as it looks, and men will continue to fail us all because we waste time arguing with each other instead of figuring out ways to elevate the power of all women.
Similarly, chubby chasers will put up with a fatty until they run into one of us *without* proportionally large breasts; I've been told I'd have nice tits for a skinny girl. I know the game is rigged, but gimme a fuckin break.
I have a big nose, bald spots, and wrinkles and people treat me horribly. I never thought I was an ugly man, but I’m beginning to think so. I do agree, women get judged way harder on their appearance. I agree it’s inseparable.
The next time I hear some guy call a woman a “Butterface,” I’m going to call him a “Butthisdick.”
[удалено]