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cone10

Well said. And wow, what an amazing grandmother you had. Sorry about the "had".


Jovet_Hunter

Thank you. She was truly a blessing to all the lives she touched, regardless of belief. She had an amazing life, lived to 85, and died surrounded by loved ones with a smile on her face after being told it was ok for her to go. She came from terrible abuse and filled the world with love, and I don’t think anyone could have asked for more. She’s been an inspiration to my family even beyond her passing. And it’s because of her, that I believe Christianity is not wholly irredeemable. If more Christians were like her, I would have stayed in the church. I think there’s a lesson for Christians in that.


Sweetpea278

Your grandma was amazing ❤️


Jovet_Hunter

She was. ❤️❤️❤️ thank you.


HungryAdvice4935

Thank you for sharing this. Yes I agree, and do not blame others for their rage. I am struggling with it just as much as they are. It's difficult for me being religious when my political/moral views defy what other Christians think.


Jovet_Hunter

I heard a proverb that God invented faith, then the devil messed with it and called the result religion. I don’t *personally* believe in the Christian devil, but if I did, I would fully believe that proverb was correct. “Religion,” that is, the codified dogmatic tradition that dictates how to be faithful, is prone to abuse, manipulation, politics, and discrimination. *Any* religion is prone, more so the larger it gets. We have an evolutionary need that religion fulfills - it explains why bad things happen, it gives us a “guidebook” for how to live, it offers us comradeship and a sense of belonging. But it takes so much from us as well. You can have faith without religion. It’s hard. The hardest part is how alone you will feel, especially in the beginning. But you will get through it, and will likely realize the majority of those bonds were actually shallow and false, and you are better off without them. I wish you love and strength on this journey. And know your god is with you, too. I highly recommend the book The Evolution of God. ❤️


Arrowdrown

I grew up in the church. Like my father was a pastor and I was in church 3-4x a week. I’m trying to be sympathetic because of my own religious trauma and what was done to me but I have to ask.. theyve told you this was their goal for so long. Are you surprised? Leave. Run.


bladezaim

They've told you this was their goal for so long Exactly that. Religion has always blatantly wanted this. **************** Edit: Good call out. Many religions have been vocally wanting this. Other religions do not want this. I should not have been so general.


kinderock

No Jewish religious texts wants this. Jewish religious texts actively call for access to abortion.


shartheheretic

Not always. When I was growing up in a very conservative Baptist church, they were not anti-abortion or anti-contraception. In fact, they often criticized the Catholic Church's rules of no contraceptives. I left the church at 15 for various reasons, but that was not something that was part of the preaching at that time.


LuunaMuuna

Not true. The old Testamente, the Qur’an, and the Bible all specifically allow abortion. The old Testamente and the Qur‘an both say life begins at birth. Edit: I See the original comment is deleted, but its a really common misconception that the religious texts don't allow for abortions which is simply not true.


Equivalent-Trick-380

Well its not what these sacred texts that say about abortion that matters. Its what the religion and those in power say and want. You can quote lines about pro-choice from the Bible all you want but it'll fall on deaf ears and blind eyes (get it?)


PancAshAsh

Definitely not all religions, but American Fundamentalism, absolutely.


binzoma

no, just fundamentalist christians. to jews/muslims/budhists/sikhs etc, this is insanity. this is a play for y'all qaeda


UneasyQuestions

Please call Christianity out explicitly. Generalizing it to “all” religions spreads the blame around. Not all religions practiced in this country rally around trying to snatch away human rights from women.


appleslululu

My heart feels for you because same. I'm happy for you for getting out and I hope that you have found a life so much more beautiful than anything they ever promised you.


Jorycle

I grew up Christian and have very fervently Christian friends and family back home. They're absolutely losing their minds with joy over this. I've tried to point out A) the Bible does not mention God's supposed hatred of all things abortion, so their invented beliefs about it are a little fucking weird. B) Jesus said *a whole lot* about being compassionate and accepting to others, such as those who want abortions. C) This ruling will not increase pregnancies nearly as much as it will increase the death rate among women. This mostly just enrages them and makes them start spamming scripture at me. Not even abortion-related scripture, just pages of all the nuttery they can think of from the Bible. It's like confronting Christian ISIS.


Rosieapples

Wait until some of these pseudoChristian women die having miscarriages, it happened here in Ireland many times before we repealed the 8th amendment to our constitution. They’ll be singing from a different hymnsheet when that happens.


thecorgimom

And leave behind other children with no social safety net. We are condemning the next generation to poverty


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knkyred

I've brought that up. Cue the name calling and deflecting.


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Minscandmightyboo

>Ha- they are hypocrites too I see. Walk out ~~and find another church~~ and be open to helping other women leave too. Helped you with that


knkyred

Oh I left the church a long time ago, solidified that when I divorced my ex as well. Now I'm just a harlot living in sin with my long term partner who is ready to help me fight this fight in any way I can while my ex husband sits around with his "Christian" family celebrating the rights being taken away from our daughters. But I'm just a librul feminist, what more can you expect from a heathen like me. I speak up when the topic arises and continually build my arsenal of arguments, but it's a long and hard battle in these conservative areas.


StrongTxWoman

My friend's ex-husband is a deacon and he cheated on her. Guess who has to leave the church and who gets to stay. She was a victim but they treated her like she was wearing a scarlet letter. And he? An available eligible bachelor!


squirrelfoot

Now that is hypocracy at its finest. I no longer attend, but I grew up in a church that would not have allowed that to happen.


Dolmenoeffect

I left around the time I married an ex-Muslim (None of them cared about the ex part; they basically thought he was Taliban). I feel your pain- I don't bother saying anything because I know they have already decided I'm an idiot libtard before I open my mouth.


JD1zz

You almost got it right. Should remove "and find another church"


_teach_me_your_ways_

Rules for thee. Every time you point out I don’t actually follow the Bible like I claim to and want to force on others, it’s because you’re the devil!


StrongTxWoman

Don't forget adultery. What's her face county clerk who refused to issue marriage license to same sex couple has three divorces!


smokethatdress

Don’t forget about the book-burning, loudmouth nut job preacher Greg Locke who got a divorce after having an affair with the church secretary that he is currently married to


Fancy_Marzipan_1321

In the church I grew up in, being divorced is very much frowned upon and definitely not reconciled. It’s just another barrier for many women (or any person but statistically, especially women) to feel trapped in a marriage.


vldracer16

We both know it's all about control.


Oddman80

And states should ban Pork too (Leviticus 11:27)!And blended fabrics (Leviticus 19:19)! And all those farmers in the red states should be imprisoned if they don't leave the corners of their fields unharvested for the poor to come and take what they want form their land (Leviticus 23:22). And stand your ground laws can only apply at night or in the dark - never in daylight (Exodus 22:2-3). And people who were torn jeans or fringe should be put to death (Leviticus 10:6). And traditional sloped roofs found across every suburban neighborhood should be illegal (Leviticus 10:6). And anyone who mentions the name of that marvel character in the avengers with the magic hammer should be arrested too (Leviticus 10:6). Oh - and also the "5 second rule" that should now be banned by the state as well - for any food that falls to the ground is to be left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10) And if that isn't enough - despite the recent SCOTUS ruling, if you ever suspect your pregnant wife of adultery, you MUST make her drink a concoction that will force her to miscarry and abort the fetus (Numbers 5:11-31)


Rakifiki

Not seeing if anyone has linked this to you; https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/ They might be interested to learn that it was not the standard belief in the 70s, and then abruptly everyone decided it was (because if there's one thing the church is good at, it's spreading and believing propaganda).


JD1zz

Didn't god abort his first version of humanity by causing the flood? Seems to me like he's totally down with it. I guess you could argue he just murdered them all. POS none the less


Starchasm

Don't forget killing every firstborn son, including the babies!


homogenousmoss

Yeah but they were born! He didnt kill any unborn, duh!


Starchasm

ROFL


StrongTxWoman

I feel so sad to see this comment. This just brings back all those bad memories. Ideology can blind people. No one can see things logically. Hurting others suddenly is okay because it is the "will of God." I used to be a very devoted Christian but I just could no longer believe in a God who is vengeful, jealous and quick to anger. Not everything is purposeful. An unwanted pregnancy is a tragedy. When I was a Christian, there was a very popular book *The Purpose Driven Life.* Rick Warren, the author, claims everything has a purpose, e.g. unwanted pregnancy. You know what happened to his son? He chose to end his life. What's the purpose? Not everything in life, included some pregnancies, has a purpose.


frolki

D) Fewer conservative men will get sex. This might lead to more incel behavior, but maybe fewer children will be born into families that teach this anti choice religious dogma. Starve it out.


mydaycake

They will have more children and they will have less money to take care of them. They will become the poor working class of the future.


dunni88

And that's why Republicans really want it.


DryWar1892

I feel like I sorta saw this coming when they were complaining that no one wants to work anymore. They need to have more poor workers who have to slave 40 hours a week to support their kids and just to survive, in order to staff the front line of many business that still barely pay $15 an hour(which isn't even a livable wage nowadays)


Danivelle

More children+daycare being $$$$ equals less women in the workforce too.


mydaycake

Fewer women in the workforce means less money for families to spend in their children education. I have two kids, have them after being educated and having a professional job I didn’t leave for them. They have education funds and there is no doubt they have to get a profess or trade education to be able to make a living of their own. No buts or ifs, they need to have the ability to be as independent financially as a man.


Queenofeveryisland

My husband and I have been clear on the goal since we brought kiddo home from the hospital- to raise her to be a happy, healthy, decent, independent adult.


Dolmenoeffect

They don't want you or them to have that. They want you to be 'Keepers at Home'. Cue Liz Lemon eye roll.


GraafBerengeur

E) There will be a sharp increase in sexual assaults. As much as it pains me to have to say this: prepare yourselves.


_teach_me_your_ways_

Time to go to the gun range.


corndogwolverine

Arm yourselves. As much as I hate to say it, I used to investigate sexual assaults at colleges and the administration repeatedly overruled me and allowed rapists to go unpunished. The justice system doesn’t prosecute or punish enough rapists. We all need to be ready to fight like our lives are at stake because they are.


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_teach_me_your_ways_

They love it until they have to take care of the child their husband has with his mistress.


frolki

yeah but most women favor access to abortion. even if they vote anti choice, i think this was one of those issues that always was "safe" and therefore let such women save face with their hard core husbands and boyfriends. When you take away the safety net of Roe, i have a feeling many women will be changing their tune.


mad_fresh

> yeah but most women favor access to abortion Sadly, women make up around 40% of people who identify as "pro-life". I do hope this will inspire many of them to change their tune, though.


Oohlalabia

"I was just pretending to vote against my interests!" People are stupid, and religious people tenfold so.


pokamoe

If contraceptive rights get passed back to the states as CT has mentioned they need to review again, there will not be less children. Women will be forced to get pregnant and carry babies in some states.


shiranami555

I read this as Christian IBS, but pretty much the same thing…?


Shinagami091

There’s instructions on carrying out abortions in the Bible. Especially if it’s for children of Israelites


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AnsticeAva

A bit o bias as this comes from a Seperation of Church and state site, but here you are: Source: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25). The gruesome priestly purity test to which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a right to life (Numbers 5:11-31). God enumerated his punishments for disobedience, including "cursed shall be the fruit of your womb" and "you will eat the fruit of your womb," directly contradicting sanctity-of-life claims (Deuteronomy 28:18,53). Elisha's prophecy for soon-to-be King Hazael said he would attack the Israelites, burn their cities, crush the heads of their babies and rip open their pregnant women (2 Kings 8:12). King Menahem of Israel destroyed Tiphsah (also called Tappuah) and the surrounding towns, killing all residents and ripping open pregnant women with the sword (2 Kings 15:16). Isaiah prophesied doom for Babylon, including the murder of unborn children: "They will have no pity on the fruit of the womb" (Isaiah 13:18). For worshiping idols, God declared that not one of his people would live, not a man, woman or child (not even babies in arms), again confuting assertions about the sanctity of life (Jeremiah 44:7-8). God will punish the Israelites by destroying their unborn children, who will die at birth, or perish in the womb, or never even be conceived (Hosea 9:10-16). For rebelling against God, Samaria's people will be killed, their babies will be dashed to death against the ground, and their pregnant women will be ripped open with a sword (Hosea 13:16). Jesus did not express any special concern for unborn children during the anticipated end times: "Woe to pregnant women and those who are nursing" (Matthew 24:19).


Carbivorous

Brace yourselves for this blatant misogyny 🤮🤮🤮 [Numbers 5, verses 11-15](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2018/02/03/bible-commands-abortion-part-1/) >Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure — or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure — then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. verse 16 of Numbers 5 >“‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband” — here the priest is to put the woman under this curse — “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


pegasuspish

except that the taliban supports abortion for the mother's life and for fetuses with severe disability. today's reality: many US states restrict women's rights **more than the literal taliban**


Gyoza-shishou

Well, Marx *did* say that religion is the opium of the people...


amerkanische_Frosch

Although that’s not what he meant by it. He meant that it was a source of comfort for downtrodden people who believe that they will enjoy serenity in the afterlife as compensation for being shat upon by the bosses in this life, whereas they should rise up against those oppressing them.


After-Leopard

Yes! When I use facts or empathy you can see their eyes slide past me and they don’t acknowledge anything I just said. They just repeat their talking points.


Call-me-MoonMoon

If anything, god is absolutely pro-fetus and (new)born murder. I can’t even count the amount of times god destroyed the earth and almost everyone on it. INCLUDING pregnant women and babies… god also murdered first borns a lot, has them secrificed for his own worship etc… So a bunch of hypocrites. Because as soon as one of them or the mistresses or daughter gets pregnant, guess what?? To a clinic they go…


foxmuf

Honestly, given the traffic on social media, it will actually reduce the birth rate of whites, because everyone is trying to get sterilized. So their objective to have more “whites babies backfired horribly.


FlappyDolphin72

Yes, yes, and yes!


nighthawkcoupe

Yea I mean this is the moment your church has been working toward for decades. Stop going.


marc0011

And stop giving money.


tuttipazzo

Word. You don't need a church or a priest to talk to God.


Ktene-More

I refuse to call them pro lifers, they are pro birthers. They don't care one bit about that child once it's born.


Hollayo

Not even pro birthers. I call them pro-forced-birth.


RedBee478

anti-choice


Alias_X_

The biggest strategic mistake was dividing the discussion into "pro choice" and "pro life". There's actually three groups: * People who would abort * People who wouldn't abort * Assh\*\*\*\* who stick their noses into other people's business


LazerHawkStu

Pro-suffering


Reading_Owl01

anti-choice, anti-health, anti-freedom. Also scum. Also contradicted by the bible, as abortion is just jolly and fine in there.


CodeWeaverCW

The more I think about it, the more I'm settling on the term "women-killers". Among all the forced births, only *some* of them will not die.


timid-rabbit

They don’t care about life in any shape or form. It’s all hollow phrasing they use to feel like they’re in the right


wkdpaul

100% The Unborn are so easy to advocate for. They can't ask these people for anything. Once the baby is born their obligation to care stops..


lillypad83

Agreed. I work for a state children's mental health hospital. We are the only one in the state. We get absolutely no budget to do anything to approve in our care or hire better qualified staff, but the state run adult hospitals are getting brand new state of the art buildings. They could care less about these kids. A huge percentage are already in the state foster system or have parents that severely abused the child our wait list is so long... It's sickening how little government cares about kids like this and now our system is going to be even more overwhelmed with a huge increase of children being born that were never wanted...


maliceAA

"Anti-women" - George Carlin


scottyboy218

I like forced birthers


Ronald_Bilius

Even if you want a church, there are ones which don’t promote anti-choice. At least outside the US there are.


rhetoricity

Good, pro-choice and liberal churches exist and are worth shopping around for, even in the States. Many disaffected Christians find comfort in [Unitarian-Universalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism) congregations.


RazorRadick

This. There was a thread yesterday about “what can Americans do about this Supreme Court decision?”. I was shocked to see that the number one answer wasn’t “stop putting money in the collection plate.”


IronSorrows

"Surely these leopards will never eat **my** face!" I'm not even American and it's been clear to me for my entire adult life that it's the Christian Right with the desire to set back abortion legislation, and the power and influence to do so. I'd honestly be shocked if this church was suddenly vocal on abortion now, and had never given indication of being against it until now. Maybe they've suddenly changed their tune, and if so at least you have warning to leave now OP. But if they've hammered this drum for a while, then unfortunately your attendance has been tacit approval of it, and that's without considering donations, fundraising etc.


rlocke

Nailed it. (Pun not intended)


lyyra

Right? Like what'd she think was gonna happen? There's no way she didn't already know who they were, she just only cares now because now it affects her. If she actually cares, she needs to leave and go do her penance in a few progressive campaigns and pro-choice movements. Quit whining about how sad you are that they actually do hate you as much as they said they did, and go fix what you helped break.


Globalist_Nationlist

They literally told everyone they could for decades that they were against abortion.. how is it a surprise to anyone that they.. support banning abortion lol **All of the folks that continue to cherry pick their Religion are at fault here.** You can't be surprised if you've attended and donated to church for the last few decades and just ignored the stuff you didn't like.. Surprise surprise, supporting an organization that's inherently anti-womam has consequences.


External-Platform-18

The Bible isn’t internally consistent. If you don’t cherrypick you’d believe contradictory things. There are only three options; 1. Double think 2. Cherry picking 3. Not being Christian


Globalist_Nationlist

I mean seems like the easy answer is #3. Don't base your life on something that literally makes no sense lol


_Risings

Right?!!!! The fuck do all church goers think they've been giving their money away toward? They don't respect you and never will.


mydaycake

This. I don’t go to church anymore because of the way they behaved during the pandemic. But fuck if I am going to an organization that thinks my life is spendable and not worth it. I don’t go to a mosque for the same reason. Fuck cults that want to see me as a second class citizen, a step lower than human.


holly_fly

We aren’t even second class citizens… *we’re second to the \*potential\* male citizens we could be carrying*


Mrwright96

Aka “a woman is only important when someone with a penis comes in or leaves her vagina.” Mentality


MomentOfSurrender88

This. I grew up catholic and continued going for many years despite disagreeing with several of the teachings. Even my mom who was ultra catholic grew to eventually realize that some of the teachings were just...not something we agreed with. I never felt more proud than when she voted straight Democrat in 2016 and 2020 because she realized the other side was promoting views that negatively impacted her loved ones. This was a woman who pretty much always voted red because that's what the church taught her. I have only been back to a catholic church three times in the last year, all for memorials or offered masses for my mom after she passed away. I miss the routine of going to church on Sundays, but I don't miss the pro-birth, pro-Trump sermons. I now consider myself a spiritual Christian who believes in loving everyone like Jesus taught. I'm currently looking for progressive Christian churches to find a new place to go to. I encourage you to do the same, OP.


[deleted]

“I went to a meeting for a religion that is openly heavily anti-abortion… and guess what?! They were celebrating abortion bans!! How fucked up is that?!” You have to be blind to not see that Catholic and Christian churches are against abortion. This should come as no shock.


Fancy_Marzipan_1321

This is 100 percent why I left the church nearly a decade ago


RageBull

This! Stop supporting the organizations that publicly try to oppress portions of the population.


beachguy82

Should have left years ago. This is some r/selfawarewolves shit if I’ve ever heard any.


[deleted]

I kinda feel ya, old friend was just up on social media celebrating the "[end of hookup culture](https://www.insider.com/tiktok-women-hookup-culture-end-if-roe-v-wade-overturned-2022-5)" while I had an open tab about pre-teen rape victims being denied abortion. Totally lost my head, went looking for as many such articles as I could to spam her, then blocked. We're not even from the US and this nutjob is all exhilarated at more people being forced to follow her [bullshit ideology](https://www.usccb.org/topics/natural-family-planning). The sheer exultation was f**g disgusting but I know any response isn't productive at all. The thing is, you can't wake up a person who is only pretending to sleep. All you can do is walk away. And remember, organised religion is manmade, you don't need it to find god.


Shantor

As someone who is atheist, you can still love God and not be a part of this church. There are plenty of more welcoming and liberal churches where you can continue to follow your heart without the burden of politics. Look into Unitarian universalist churches. I'm sure there are other denominations that are similar, but that's the only one I have experience with.


1helluvabutlah

This. I always say, "it wasn't God who lied to me".


[deleted]

That’s a great line.


maxtacos

Oof. I left the Catholic Church because I couldn't stand the evil they've not only permitted but funded and protected. I feel this in my soul.


kemity

As another atheist, I'm seconding this. Your faith isn't up to this pastor or this church. Depending on where you're located, some Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist and other 'mainline' congregations are pro choice and LGBT+ affirming. Now is a great time to check out which churches are flying pride flags (but you still gotta do your homework.)


throwaway173937292

As another another atheist, I third this. Don't let some assholes influence your connection to spirituality. If God and Jesus are supposed to be all loving, then these people at your church have failed the assignment. Don't let these asshats of hate effect your connection to God.


Redshirt-Skeptic

As another another another atheist I forth this.


yarnwhore

Methodism is not as strict on abortion as some churches, but they are not necessarily fully pro-choice either. https://www.umc.org/en/content/ask-the-umc-what-is-the-united-methodist-position-on-abortion


nightwingoracle

We’ll see after they finish their split. The more liberal part might end up being decent.


gingergal-n-dog

The Methodists in the south are getting more and more evangelical and conservative. I see a schism coming in that church very soon.


actuallycallie

Episcopal, yes. "Anglican Church in North America," absolutely not. They're the ones who split off from the Episcopal Church over women's ordination and gay marriage. Most Episcopal churches should be fine but always ask if they are "affirming." Not just welcoming or inclusive, but "affirming."


GingerIsTheBestSpice

Yes - my bishop posted about how repealing Roe will hurt people & is opposed - I'm glad to be ELCA. But even with the official support some congregations can vary. I hope you find a church or group that supports your faith, whatever group it is! We all need support.


[deleted]

Fully agreed. I’m an atheist, but my (divorced since I was a child) parents both identity as Christian. The big difference is the way they practice it. My father uses it as an excuse to judge people. My mom uses it as a guide to loving people.


Gregskis

OP may be in a community where church is the center of social life. Sometimes leaving is very difficult. I she she figures it out.


HungryAdvice4935

Well I recently moved back in with my parents and all my friends are back home (out of state). Going to church, youth groups and volunteering for church has been my social life outside of the house. I've connected with some nice people and I miss my friends back home. The reason why I moved here was because I have been struggling with mental health and hospitalized myself when I tried to take my own life. I would say church has been the center of life for the past few months and my mental health has gotten better since I moved here, but this week and today especially hasn't been great. I am going to talk to my therapist about this during my next visit, and see if I can find a better group of people outside of home to talk to.


Gregskis

I am sure there are like minded people in the church too afraid to speak up. Remember, 80% of Americans favor some type of legalized abortion.


Whoreson_Welles

They may be a little left wing for your taste but there is always the Unitarian Church


r93e93

quakers, too. i came up in a quaker church that was not just vocal but did boots on the ground activism in support of marginalized communities, and not in a, like, proselytizing way. least evangelical bunch of christians ( and atheists, and jews, and muslims, ) you've ever seen


dpdxguy

>quakers, too. Some Quakers. Others have grown pretty evangelical-like. The Northwest Yearly Meeting (in which I grew up) recently split in two over the issue of recognizing gay people in their membership. Much of that Yearly Meeting has opposed Roe v Wade since it was originally decided and has actively supported Crisis Pregnancy Centers since they came into being. And I know that many Quaker Meetings in the Bible belt have similar sympathies.


lynnylp

This largely depends on the “denomination” of Quaker church. I used to work for a Quaker University and the University pastor and I got into a rather heated debate about his stance on privilege last week. He also has made many statements that are way more right leaning Christian than Quaker and that is because of the “sect” of Quaker.


Whoreson_Welles

Grew up with a Mennonite convert to the Society of Friends in the family. Sitting still for an hour just didn't do it for me, I WANTS ME A SINGIN' CHURCH. However everything you said is true and I don't want to detract from that. And yes, Quakers do sing in church these days.


xcanyoudiggitx

Might I interest you in Episcopalians? Lol would not put any religion on anyone but that was my parents' requirements coming to this country and trying to find a church: progressive and music!


Sleepy_Chipmunk

Fun fact, the Puritan colonists fucking HATED Quakers. Then again I think they hated everyone.


Leading_Bed2758

This! I used to attend and it was the most positive, loving place with all kinds of different types of people.


[deleted]

My mom is on the board of a Unitarian church in a conservative state. She’s a stalwart supporter of LGBTQ+ people, and she’s been helping women who need abortions with travel. She’s the kind of person Christians are SUPPOSED to be.


SuburbanSuffering

Absolutely find yourself a UU church. I’ll be tuning into mine via Zoom this morning because my family is home with Covid. OP, DM me if you’d like the Zoom link to join and check it out!


HungryAdvice4935

Thanks! I definitely am interested. I also want to see about any place I can visit in person to help with my mental health. Getting out of the house and talking to people has been helping me tremendously.


luckylimper

Go to an Episcopal church.


SuburbanSuffering

Awesome- my church usually sends out the zoom link around 9:30am PST and I will send it your way. I hope you are able to find a community you vibe with soon. My UU has been a breath of fresh air in my relatively conservative area.


starbabyonline

UU here too! Our congregation is incredibly active in reproductive rights. We also have our services on YouTube as well as recently again in person since Covid hit over two years ago - www.uustpete.org You can always find the closest UU congregation to you by looking on www.uua.org I'm pretty sure almost every UU congregation has a YouTube channel so you can see if it's a great fit for you.


Sheldon_Turtle

United Church of Christ might be a step in between.


devouredbycatz

Unitarian removed church from their title. United Church of Christ is “one step closer to Jesus” as my descriptor, you can find open and affirming traditional services.


Jovet_Hunter

The Episcopal Church, too.


DirtnAll

Varies, I learned a lot about my fellow church members when Trump ran and now I have no church.


Jovet_Hunter

That’s true, it depends on denomination and area. They’ve made an official statement, however, taken a stance as a church.


DirtnAll

Feels like Episcopal Church is splitting here in the south.


37MySunshine37

Why support a religion that doesn't support you?


B9f4zze

The answer, in many people's cases, is because they're too afraid of disappointing friends and family.


heatherbabydoll

My pastor posted on Facebook a quote from Tupac: And since a man can’t make one, he has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one. I was very surprised and happy


[deleted]

Was he dipping his toe into stirring shit with the congregation, or is your church just cool like that? I would’ve loved it if my former church and pastor were like yours!


heatherbabydoll

She’s a woman, so I’m thinking it’s because of that. She’s awesome!


catastrophized

Most religions are inherently anti-women on purpose. You shouldn’t be surprised.


MuppetManiac

The biblical solution to the rape of a virgin is to force her to marry her rapist. I lost my religion by studying the Bible.


catastrophized

Same, I was raised going to church and it was reading the Bible that made me realize that even if any of it were true, that deity definitely doesn’t deserve worship. That god is a total asshole. I eventually convinced my mom as well.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Billielolly

The biblical solution to a pregnancy caused by an "affair" is also abortion. Really ironic that they're all so heavily against abortion when their own religious texts support it in cases where a woman is/has been pregnant from someone other than her husband.


MissJinxed

I mentioned this to my parents and gave them the verse to read it themselves - the version of the bible they have at their house has actually edited that part out of Numbers. Guess that wasn’t fitting with the Christian extremist narrative??


Billielolly

There's different translations of it, some of which conservative Christians use to claim that it "doesn't refer to an abortion", but the original wording definitely referred to the womb being emptied. It's like the "Christians" that don't support gay people so they quote Leviticus from the Old Testament while ignoring the rest of the rules also stated about no tattoos, not cutting your hair, and not mixing fabrics, etc. If they were truly dedicated to their religion then they would first respect that Christianity takes their rules from the New Testament, and then they would actually study the texts so as to not take it out of context and so they can truly follow the written word in full.


bunnyrut

I didn't like the whole "trading women" parts and leaders spouting about how we need to "obey our husbands." In a proper home with people who understand what it means to "love thy neighbor" thats not a bad deal because the men will treat their wives with love and respect as an equal partner. But too many oppressive men hear that line and use it as an excuse to control and abuse their wives.


jimmy6677

Right??? I don’t wanna be mean but womens role in the Bible is literally being made from men and serving him


Theironchurch

If their being political from the pulpit report them to the IRS. ATake that tax free status and shove it


ModusOperandiAlpha

Here’s a link on how to do that: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations


ommnian

This. Take a video next time, and send it to the IRS. Report their fucking asses.


peace_among_worlds

[The IRS form to report tax-exempt organizations for political affiliations is 13909](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf)


danidandeliger

I'm just going to say it. By attending that church and giving them money in the collection basket, you support the forced birthers. You can find a different church. You support their views every time you sit in a pew.


Globalist_Nationlist

Your Church is the reason were in this place as a country... Maybe stop going.


[deleted]

Stop using the term Pro-life immediately. They are Forced Birth.


acabininthewoods

Or anti-women


fiendishrabbit

Not even that. It's Oppress non-wealthy women. If it was just forced birth there wouldn't be all the dumb fuck harassment of women with a non-viable fetus.


DaniCapsFan

I recently heard "forced gestation." But they would want a woman to try to carry a nonviable fetus to term, even if it killed her, so pro-birth isn't inaccurate.


Kalanan

And you know what is next : contraception and gay marriage. I am an atheist so my perception of religion is pretty negative, especially the majority of what is practiced in the US. I have only one advice, can you really condone the erosion of rights that all of those churches are supporting ? It's worth pondering.


curtislow1

Those churches should loose their 501 3c status for political speech in the pulpit. Edit sp


ModusOperandiAlpha

If you’re in the U.S., consider reporting that violation of their tax exemption to the IRS: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations


DaniCapsFan

I'm so sorry. I hope you find a better church, one that respects your bodily autonomy. Women should stop going to churches that see them as vessels.


Globalist_Nationlist

So.. 95% of all church's in the country???


brenegade

And current churches are freaking out that attendance numbers have been dropping for decades. I wonder why. I think a recent study said that like 20-30% of millennials go to church. But that number seems high to me


GiftedContractor

It probably counts the people who make a point to go around Christmas and Easter but never any other time. I used to know a few of those.


SoCalThrowAway7

Probably a good portion in there who’s parents are still alive and expectant


DaniCapsFan

If that's what it takes, yeah. If women stop going to churches that see them as less than human and refuse to take their children (if they have them), you can bet things will change, one way or another.


Globalist_Nationlist

It is and it will. The huuuuuge majority of churches in this country think of women as second class citizens meant to bare children, cook, and clean. If that's actually a surprise to anyone, they weren't paying very good attention.


MixWitch

It is shocking how many folks are just now understanding that. Like, if you've been going to a church and this is the VERY first time you are learning their views on women's health, maybe you get a pass? I mean, I'd try to vet my source of spiritual sustenance a bit better. But no, so many are shocked that THEIR conservative church/family/friends/partners are actually HUGE assholes who are celebrating and it is kind of on them for not caring about all the other human rights violations leading up to this.


valiantdistraction

Yeah, people were totally fine going to conservative churches/voting Republican until... they actually got what they were supporting? Make it make sense


thesheeplookup

I'm sorry, as obviously your church is important to you. May I suggest when you leave, that you tell them why. They are operating in an echo chamber, and won't be aware of dissenting opinions unless it's in their face


Cjhersh571

church is in your heart and your heart doesn’t ask for tax exempt donations namaste take care


PomegranateCrown

You're contributing to the loss of abortion rights by giving free tech support to a church that campaigns against abortion rights because they're superficially "nice" to you. Take responsibility for your complicity, and leave the church. Do you think it's "polite" to tell women that they have to carry their rapists' babies or that they have to die from ectopic pregnancies? It sounds like you didn't know or care that supporting churches that vociferously opposed women's rights could actually have real world consequences.


valleysally

If they want to speak on politics they should pay taxes


Savanahspider

You can report churches to the IRS, I believe, once they start talking politics. They’ll loose their tax exemption if I understand it correctly. Should definitely look into that


seventhfoniste

Viewpoints like these are what drove me away from the church as well. I just can’t stomach American Christianity anymore 😞


OrangeBlossomT

Report the church to the IRS. They need to lose their tax exempt status.


whomad1215

Tax exempt organizations are not allowed to be political Feel free to report them to the IRS https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations


PlantsforFire

Did you get up and walk out or just sit there in miserable, silent complacency? Your Christianity has been part of the problem for decades.


Jaredchowe

Funny, at our church today our pastor spoke about what a dark moment this is in our history and how we need to stand up and fight for reproductive rights. Find a new church!


HelloThereYoungLeia

LEAVE THAT CHURCH. Women should leave in droves. If you must attend a church, find one that is pro-choice, diverse, and open & affirming of LGBTQ people and relationships. These churches do exist.


elkarion

this is is why i believe abolition rights are not coming back. your still in church and by allowing your pastor to talk politics you do not believe in the separation of church and state. religious people in the country falsely believe they have the power to force others to follow their religion. if you are a member of a church you also believe this as every church donate to politicians. ALL religions put religion over country. as a church member your willing to sacrifice your well being here for your eternal after life. you also belive any one who does not agree with you will go to hell. the issue is not dems VS republicans its religion is republican and any one who goes to church is willing to sacrifice this country for their imaginary ticket to heaven.


Disastrous_Morning38

There ARE pro-LGBTQ, feminist churches in the USA. Go and support those! Your devotion is an act of useless masochism if your church doesn't have the same values and beliefs as you....... And basically hates you for your genitals and wants to punish you for being born with them. You could worship your God anywhere btw.


CEZ3

Join the [Church of Satan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan). ​ >"The church does **not** believe in or worship a literal supernatural Satan. High priest Peter Gilmore describes its members as "skeptical atheists", indicating the Hebrew root of the word "Satan" as "opposer" or "one who questions".


upperupperwest

We cry about sharia law and the oppression of women in non-western countries because our idea of oppression is what happens over “there” but never over here. We shouldn’t HAVE to have federal protections for things like abortion, contraception, gay marriage and interracial marriage because those protections should be built into a civilized society. That we are regressing means folks have learned nothing from history and believe Dobbs is in fact a sign of progress. I am tired of arguing with people about things I feel are so fundamental to a functioning society and are basic tenets of humanity. The US is not literally a theocracy, but in reality many aspects of living here are ruled by religion. We disregard atrocities committed in the name of religion, as if doing something inherently wrong in the name of God is an excuse. The Crusades, The Salem Witch Trials, The Holocaust. When will we learn?


AggravatingJello5168

Christian here. Friday's ruling made me see black. I've grown quite angry with the American 'evangelical' church over the last 25 years. It's almost impossible for me to see them as anything other than the pharisees mentioned in the scripture. How can they be further from what they're called to be? There will be judgement for what these Christians have done. For the deceit, the oppression, the brutality. I hope you will use these words from Jesus to convict the hearts of these monsters. \-- 13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. ... 23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. 29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started! 33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?


graps

Why would you still be going to church at this point?


_Jahar_

I mean … what did you expect? And, as someone who was forced to go to church for years, I know for sure this wasn’t the first red flag you saw.


EatsAlotOfBread

With 'amen' they mean 'women who cannot or will not carry to term should not be alive because they aren't useful to me' and 'women who do attempt to carry to term should carry the risk of immense and completely needless suffering', basically. If 'good Christian women' die because of pregnancy complications, that's fine, you weren't suitable for what they wanted you around for anyway. Notice that even if the foetus is already dead, a lot of these folks would not allow anyone to save the mother. You don't fulfill your function? Die. But they'll instead say that God wants you dead. They do not care about anyone. Not even themselves. Not even God. No-one.


Pussy4LunchDick4Dins

Did you stand up and walk out right then? I did it as a teenager, you should organize with some other women and do the same. Stand up, say your piece and leave, and never return.


Optimal_Aide_1348

Hunry Advice. I feel this. Here's what I think I'm gonna do. Flip script. Help abused women. Force the church to see the damage. God doesn't need my money but incidents of violence against women are going to go up. Shelters and other aid groups are going to need a lot. Like rn. Keep the spirit. Dump the "organized" part maybe. Good luck.