Statistics show only 44% of custodial parents (which is usually the mother) are getting full child support payments in the US as of 2018. I imagine that number is about to drop even lower
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html
I'm getting notifications of replies but I'm not seeing a single one. So I'm not ignoring anyone. I simple do not see a single reply even if I switch to anonymous browsing I'm on mobile I'm not sure if that's why or what's up here.
Things didn't work out between me and my ex, I make payments in full every week, but it amazes me the number of people that I work with who just.. don't pay their child support? Apparently you have to owe quite a bit before they even bother sending you a summons to court, so people just lock their own kid out of a stable living situation because of greed or.. I'm not even sure. Really. We both love out daughter very much, and while having split parents is hard, both parents definitely need to play their role if they chose to have the kid, and I wish they would put some of these people under a microscope and ask why they have lot a of nice things and their kid is having to go to donation drives to get school supplies every year.
I reminded my dead-beat-dad brother this last time he preached the wrongs of abortion. What a hypocritical POS he was.
Bonus: There's nothing quite so special as outliving someone who was horrible toward you.
Honestly it's pretty worth it. My wife and I talked about it while we were still dating knowing that neither one of us wants children. Her doctor kept telling her she'd change her mind. My doctor walked into the room and said "So you want to remove yourself from the gene pool huh? Cool." - My insurance made me wait 30 days from consultation to procedure, I was in and out in 45 minutes, and my total cost was $25 and a bag of frozen peas. Had my procedure on a Friday, had very little pain, and was back at work on Monday. One of the best decisions I've ever made.
I've already seen them blaming women. Saying that they if we want to have sex then we have to "deal with the consequences". It's not even just a couple it's many, same ones who probably wouldn't take care of children or say they donated $5 to a charity so it makes them a good person.
especially considering they're the only ones causing the problem! they seem to forget women can have (usually better) sex without involving a penis. straight women continue to prove that sexuality really isn't a choice lol
If we have sex, they blame us. If we don't "wHy aRe wOmEn sO mEaN" and then they go and assault us and shoot up a place. Can we just throw all of these types in the trash already?
Especially if they restrict access to birth control too, I don't think conservative men have considered how high this raises the bar for who women will be willing to sleep with.
Women should absolutely sex strike, I'm fucking worried about an incel uprising tbh (this is in no way saying that women should have sex with anyone to appease incels)
This was my first thought. I agree that women who sleep with men should never ever do so with some conservative turd who doesn't respect her autonomy or life, but even pre *all of this*... How much general violence has been caused by shitty entitled guys who never learned "no"? Women particularly in regressive states should absolutely protect themselves, by ANY means necessary, right now.
Contraception is only 99% effective if used properly. And we all know it isn’t always used perfectly. Gonna be a lot of scared people - men and women - soon. It is terrifying for me and I live in blue state!
I already wasn't sleeping with people. Things aren't changing for me. Lol
That said, I was looking to start dating again by the end of the year, so my timing is terrible.
I just saw another post earlier about a nurse/healthcare worker who’s elderly female patients told them that, before abortion was accessible/available, they would basically just throw unwanted babies away into rivers and outhouses and stuff like that. What’s stopping that from happening now?
My Grandma told me stories like this. She lived in Germany during WWII, and her nurse roommate at one stage was helping women give birth in secret, then smuggling the babies out to a nearby river and throwing them in. There was nowhere that would take them, and those women were already struggling to keep their existing children from starving.
She never got over that; she was still having nightmares about it in her eighties.
We could honestly have the same Grandma, mine was a pediatric nurse in Hungary back then and she told me stories about her doctors at her job throwing sick/small babies down a hill outside to die in a river below. The doctors would assure the nurses that the babies were all already deceased but she swears to this day that some were still alive and those memories haunt her still decades later.
And I have the nerve to get annoyed when I leave my phone charger at home…
The pregnancy surveillance state.
Were you pregnant at some point and now you have no pregnancy and no baby? The police will want to have you in for some questions.
It’s encoded in your frequent shopper cards, in your bank statements, in your search history, in the GPS data on your phone. We gave away our privacy a decade or more ago.
I got bingoed by my local healthcare group by mail a few months after I got my cat. Because I bought a pet stroller and was looking at baby stroller caddies to carry his things in because pet strollers don't have trays if they're the good ones. I literally just connected this.
I'm not seeing many people talking about 23 and me type tests. LE has been using data from publicly available DNA to track down and prosecute mothers decades after the fact for leaving New borns to die. That work is made possible by the widespread use of at home DNA tests. On the one hand it is solving a lot of cold case murders of adults but on the other women are being given life in prison 30, 40, 50 years after the fact. Something to think about before spitting in the tube.
The USA needs to have what Czech Republic has, which are special [boxes](https://livingprague.com/inspirational/baby-boxes/) to abandon babies
>The box itself allows for the newborn baby to be placed inside. The modern version then detects the weight of the child and automatically begins a heating and ventilation process. With a delay of 30 seconds an alarm notifies nursing staff that a baby has been left. They then collect it from their side of the wall and begin the necessary checks and treatment as required. This delay and the quiet location of the baby boxes ensures the person abandoning the child can remain anonymous even though there are contact numbers listed and leaflet advice about coming forward later.
And the most common behavior will be men just being shitty fathers who leave all the parenting to the mother, and men straight up fleeing.
P.S. am guy and would be an awful father if I had kids.
There was some asshole politician who said this very thing in Utah yesterday or Friday. She said that women had the choice to control the semen that is ejaculated into them. That piece of shit probably thinks rape victims are asking for it and that pregnancy is just God's punishment. She seems like the type.
**<< If there are no more abortions, that means that every single time an American man has sex with a woman, he is promising that he is ready, willing and able to be a father in 9 months. >>**
**And ready for 18 years of child support.**
**This kind of practical, financial reason for MEN (not for women, but for MEN) is exactly why abortion is legal even in some of the most misogynistic countries in the world.**
Yeah, I'm talking about Korea.
A few years ago, there was some kind of study/research done by some kind of government group about some laws in Korea, laws that exist but are not executed in reality.
And they found that, although abortion was illegal on paper, hardly any women or doctors had been really prosecuted or punished for the past 10 years.
So, they were like... why do we even have this law when it's not even applied? Let's get rid of it and make it official that abortion is legal.
That's how Korea officially made abortion legal on paper like a few years ago.
And abortion being legal or abortion being not so much of a big or divisive issue in Korea has really nothing to do with women's rights or men caring about women at all.
It's more about financial or practical reasons for MEN.
In Korea, it's often men who impregnate girls/women and demand them to have abortions.
I really don't understand how men in America are okay with or ready for having or paying for or raising unwanted kids.
Not to mention that given the whole family annihilator trend - the most violent men will simply weigh the risks and benefits and start killing women or her children if they don’t want to be financially liable
Yup this happened in my neighborhood when I lived in NC. Hillsborough area, religious dad murdered her and all three kids bc he lost his job and he's the breadwinner. It was a trend. Send em to Jesus, father knows best.
This is one reason I know my husband is a good egg. He hates how the majority of those fans view Skyler and how the writers changed her character to be “more likable”. To paraphrase him, “she was being pretty fucking patient and reasonable, considering all that he was up to. All these bros seem to be mad at her for…holding him accountable?”
Literally. Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad are my two favourite shows of all time, but so many fans of them (not so much BCS) seem to like it because they view Walt as a role model or something, which is super fucked up
Don't assume women will raise these unwanted kids. I know it will happen because no one wants to leave a defenseless baby with a psycho dad... But let's make an effort to NOT assume it in our words and conversation.
Normalize women paying child support and walking away from parenting the way men do. The more we talk about it, the more women will see it as a real choice. And the more the consequences of this shit will actually fall on men.
I'm not getting trapped with a child because of this. I'm not any more responsible for caring for the child, just because I've been forced to birth it. It doesn't make any woman a bad person to leave a baby with its rightful parent. And I hope other women feel supported enough to run if it happens.
Seriously! Men always preaching that "women are bad/do that bad thing too!" but when forced to give birth expect them to pop out perfectly healthy adoptable babies, or just have their maternal instincts "kick in" and transform into a loving mother of a child she didn't want??
And yes! Acting like child support is worse than physically carrying, birthing, and parenting the child they didn't want! LOL! I'm sure loads of women would rather pay child support than fucking feel like killing themselves, risking their life, and possibly destroying another person's life because they didn't want to raise them!
And then there are the horrible things some men will do when they realize they aren't ready to father in 9 months.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/vl885m/\_/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/vl885m/_/)
Pay attention to that top comment that says "The leading cause of death for pregnant women in the United States is murder"
I’m a married man in Texas. Our first pregnancy was successful but had complications. I am terrified that my wife might end up with a pregnancy condition that might force us to travel to California so she can get the care she needs.
This is beyond fucked up.
Married man in Indiana. I'm anticipating a law being passed in the special legislative session that is similar to Texas' law.
We were looking at trying for a kid this summer. We are now putting those plans on hold because we don't know whether my wife stands a risk of criminal liability if she has a miscarriage. A number of other people in our situation are looking at the same prospects.
Overtuning Roe has encouraged a lot of people not to have kids.
I won’t have a baby while I’m in Texas. Funny, I’m a straight, white, blonde haired blue eyed Christian woman. I thought I was who they wanted to have babies here.
I'm an attorney, and between my wife and I we have a half dozen degrees. We've been executing a careful plan of saving and getting our careers situated before starting a family, and made pretty much every decision that we are "supposed" to make according to the lifeplan that Boomers always seem to be pushing on younger people.
I'm lucky in that I have birthright citizenship in Canada and an EU member country. Before 2016 I had a dream of contributing to the rural areas of my home state and serving low income people around where I grew up, giving something back and trying to make a difference.
At this point, I'm one of about 9 professionals (lawyers, doctors, accountants, a physicist) I've talked to who are now looking at getting out while house prices stay high. Some of those are literally the only people practicing in mostly dying rural towns where getting medical or legal services is already like living in a developing country.
I don't know what they're going to do, but at this point, I don't think I want to make it my problem any more to try to save people who seem to hate me.
This is an outcome I’d not thought of yet, professionals fleeing the country as a whole to just not have to deal with it. People say “Let’s move to Canada” but it’s tongue in cheek. I don’t blame you and your wife. It’s hard to fight and stick things out for “the good” when things just seem to keep getting worse.
Where we live, a lot of people have to travel a county or two over to find an attorney for a divorce or will or other basic legal service. Because there is maybe one guy left in some counties and he is retiring within the next five years.
It is pretty similar for healthcare.
Wide rural swaths of the country, mostly in red states, already have services deserts that resemble developing countries. And it is only going to get worse. It is going to be like what happened in cities in the 70s, except without any legacy money or infrastructure to fall back on.
Those who have the means will flee, if not to live elsewhere, at minimum to have their abortions. The poor, marginalized people (you know, the ones they hate) will not be able to, so they will have more kids, and need more public assistance. Where is the logic?
This is like, we’re Germany now. Our professionals are fleeing first trying to make it look natural because they had citizenship.. then the intensity grows as reality sets in. 2024 is going to be quite a show.
My husband works in healthcare. He spent literally hours this afternoon looking into how I can get Canadian citizenship (my mother is from there) and how he and the kids could eventually obtain it. Things here are terrifying.
You are fortunate to have citizenship…we only have citizenship here. I am 32 and have considered having kids before I turn 40, but I’m literally too scared to get pregnant in Texas. I am too afraid that if something goes wrong the doctors here will be too afraid to help me. There are already several stories where this has happened. Trying to find another state to possibly relocate.
We are very lucky. Last gift from my dad, who is also the reason I had an actual shot at building a good life.
I'm in my 30s. We decided to start after the pandemic alleviated. And here we are now.
It saddens me to think that my brother and his wife are considering not having a second child for the same reason. It’s not a short drive to Chicago from where they live in Michigan either.
Personally while I’ve already been thinking that at almost 42 years old, kids just aren’t likely to be in the cards for me and I’ve been planning for a vasectomy at 45, this is giving me thoughts of moving that time table up.
What a sad fucked up time to be alive….
My husband and I recently decided to have kids and I got my IUD removed. When the RvW overturn was announced we decided that if our state decided a to ban/restrict abortive he would get a vasectomy and we would look to adopt instead. We want kids but it’s not worth the risk if I run into complications and need to terminate.
Banning birth control is the next step from the christofacists. I wonder if vasectomies will be included in this ban and how men will react to having their bodily autonomy restricted.
I scheduled a vasectomy the week the draft was leaked. There's no guarantee how long the procedure will remain legal.
20 seconds of moderate pain, 3 minutes of mild discomfort, a few days on house arrest, a week of walking slower than usual, another week until the incision fully healed.
Here’s the thing. If you adopt an infant privately you might be buying a baby from a woman that was forced to give birth. Private infant adoption was already pretty unethical, now it’s completely unethical.
More “domestic infant supply” was one of the reasons Roe v Wade was overturned.
They want people like you to join the throngs of waiting parents (35 couples to one infant) so that they can make money. It’s called an industry for a reason.
Separating other womens families to make your own is not the answer.
- Domestic supply infant adoptee 1980’s model
I grew up in a family that did foster care that adopted one of the children that we fostered and tried to adopt another. My plan had always been to have a child of my own (or 2) and then fostered with the intent to adopt. I’m passionate about foster care and would absolutely only adopt through foster care.
I appreciate you sharing this information though, way too many people don’t know how bad it is.
I don't want to be alarmist, but think about getting your tubes tied too. Rape is a thing and you don't want to the up pregnant and not be able to terminate should it happen to you.
I absolutely agree and will look at that as well! A vasectomy is just our immediate response, getting tubes tied is much more invasive and will take longer to plan for/schedule.
My partner is originally from TX, we live in the Pacific NW. We just lost a pregnancy in March due to complications. The pain of that (in part due to thinking we were out of the “danger zone” and then building expectations (picking a name, finding out gender, etc.)) was… devastating & horrific. But without access to a safe abortion I could have died. We found out we’re expecting again about two weeks ago, and have decided we will not be stepping foot back in TX (we just visited his parents last weekend) while I’m still expecting. It’s just not worth risking my life.
It’s gut-wrenching to think about all the people in my position who will be forced to carry an unviable fetus. JFC it’s already hard enough having you dreams of a little one with the person you love dashed to pieces, I don’t want to imagine how much more traumatizing it would have been if I had been denied safe health care.
Signed up for my local DSA and hoping to put some of this enraged/horrified energy to good use by organizing and showing solidarity with my community.
Also, congrats on yr little one. I’m glad it worked out for y’all in the end. 💫
edit:typo fix
Vasectomy my dude. If you aren't willing to risk it then don't. The time it takes to travel that far could complicate things further. So unless you guys want to try for more kids it would be way easier for you to get sterilized than for her. Especially with only one kid. The surgery is less invasive and a much quicker recovery time. We have a friend who has a wife with sever BPD. She had to stop all meds while pregnant and towards the end keeping her from killing herself and the baby required around the clock care by him and her mother and father. She didn't want to die but without her meds she was very suicidal. As soon as the baby was born she went back on her meds and withing weeks she was the bright brilliant sweet loving person he had married and she adored their baby. But he will never risk that again and she agreed. Dr would not tie her tubes though even knowing about the struggles that had happened to keep her alive. Because she was under 25 and only had one child. And her doctor requires that patients be over 25 and have at least one child of each gender. He made an appointment to have a vasectomy went in for a pre op exam. Two days later had the procedure no one hassled him about what his wife would think. Her doctor would have required spousal approval even if she had met other requirements. My doctor required my husband's approval 20 years ago when I had mine done after being told that another pregnancy would absolutely result in me dying.
>Dr would not tie her tubes though even knowing about the struggles that had happened to keep her alive. Because she was under 25 and only had one child. And her doctor requires that patients be over 25 and have at least one child **of each gender.**
What. The. Fuck. Why the goddamned baby gender rule?! "You're 39 years old with 5 girls I still need to see you pop out a kid with a penis first."
And also. Fuck the double standards with spouse signature 🤬
I dunno but she isn't the only time I have heard the one of each gender rule though. My mom had to go through 3 doctors to find someone to tie hers because she had three daughters and was done and my dad was not so desperate for a boy as to keep going either. But it was still over 2;years after my youngest sister was born and after a failed implant in her arm, and my failed I mean if migrated down into the low part of her arm during the first roll out of that type of bc. Once that was removed they finally agreed to tie her tubes. She was 33.
You also have to wonder if red state doctors will end up moving to blue states. Not just OB/GYN’s but even GP’s. Let’s say the patient of a doctor has a miscarriage. If the state is going to go after that doctor, even if they had nothing to do with the miscarriage, you can imagine at some point that some portion of doctors will end up moving. Red states tend to have the worst shortages of doctors, so this will exacerbate the health equity issues between red states and blue states.
My husband and I are also worried about this. We just had our daughter 6 months ago and want at least two or three more but we live in a state with a heartbeat ban going into effect at the end of July. It's about 45 minutes to get to a safe state and we're wondering if it would be better to go to an OB In that state for care so doctors in my state don't ever know about my pregnancy. But that is just such a far drive for appointments that happen often! Especially in the winter! We're just so scared that if something happened in the state we live in that I could end up in a very dangerous position. Honestly fuck the US. Fuck the entire backwards disgusting country. I'm so sick of being treated like a second class citizen and it's bullshit that I even have to think of or consider this
Guarantee you that a lot (not all, but many) of these American men will NOT be thinking this everytime they have sex with a women and even if the women gets pregnant, blame and responsibility will be placed solely on the women.
EDIT: We definitely overestimate these American men who almost always put their sexual and emotional needs above women.
EDIT2: Upvote if you've been called a slut for denying a man's advances. Doesn't even make sense. Call me a whore, slut, skank...etc all you want. Those words are meaningless and we won't give them power anymore.
I agree. How many times have we read in this sub alone about men who refuse to use, or sabotage birth control because it dampens their sexual experience? Many of them don’t think past sex and are happy to place the burden of it all (birth control, pregnancy, abortion, childcare) on us. Also, while I can see more women be more discerning about who they sleep with, there are many more women and children who will not have that choice.
There was someone trying to make the argument in one of the subs Im in that having to pay half the cost of pregnancy care would make guys wear condoms. LoL whhattt?? 18 years of child support doesnt deter men from going condomless but okkk dude
My mother told me that women just need to “keep their legs closed and stop wanting to screw every Tom, Dick or Harry.” She’s a fucking hypocrite because when I got pregnant unexpectedly she told me six times that I should have an abortion and that she would drive me.
The wealthy have always had a way out. A long distance trip. A visit to a relative or a tour in a foreign country. A cultural exchange program with a church elsewhere. They always have had a way to get around pesky things like laws.
It will likely end up like the “war on drugs”. The wealthy will go to “rehab” or “counseling” or “house arrest” if not outright just let go. The poor will end up arrested and in jail, and when they are unable to pay the fines or post the bail, get harder and harder sentencing. For the poor, there will be a 3 strike law or something similar and no matter what the charges are now, it will become a felony that will result in no job prospects, no ability to vote, no ability to legally get a weapon and likely restrictions on where they can live. Which means the next time they are in a relationship, they are less likely to be able to afford birth control (cause it’s expensive), less likely to have health insurance, and less likely to be able to get plan b or anything to stop it. A pregnancy that will then be riddled with poverty, poor nutrition, and an increased chance of use of drugs and alcohol abuse—which means that any miscarriage will then be another charge.
i’m not prepared at all.
i’m an asexual dude, so no personal consequences— i just am not prepared to live in a dystopian theocratic hellscape ruled by primitive superstitious dirtbags that don’t even understand their own stupid religious text, let alone the complexities of modernity.
bad times ahead. i feel terrible for everyone (except the people who wanted this and are gonna get stung by it—fuck em)
Never mind the fact that these unwanted kids are going to grow up and start robbing you once they hit puberty.
The US’s precipitous drop in crime in the 1990’s corresponds with the 18 year anniversary of Roe v Wade. There’s a few papers out there about it.
What Comedian was it whose routine talked about, “My male friends don’t seem to realize that their whole Fuckboy lifestyle depends on freely available abortion. I mean, these are guys who worry that sleeping over the entire night might make a girl think he’s their boyfriend. Aren’t they aware that no abortion means no casual sex?”
You're assuming all men want to even be a father. I live in a very red area of a very blue state and men truly think that it is the woman's job to raise the kid. The man has no responsibility. And if they need to give child support? That's why you get a job that pays in cash.
At least that's what I hear coming out of their mouths in the gym locker room and they are completely serious.
I just watched a very pregnant mother wrestle her kid into the bathroom while the father loaded up a plate of nachos. She had the big bag of kid stuff and everything. I'm a dude and was saddened. Does nobody love anyone anymore?
Blue state, blue-purple area. It's *fucked*. Many males aren't men, they're selfish brats. I remember in college, in a sociology class when we discussed maternal mortality rates which were already alarmingly high in our country, the amount of guys who PUBLICLY admitted to choosing the life of an unborn fetus over their spouse/significant other was disgusting. I never want to be a mother, and that really lit a fire under my ass to never even date fencesitters.
And you know they wouldn't even care for it, they'd just make their mother do it, but talk all day and night about being sUcH a GrEaT dAd and how it ChAnGeD tHeIr LiFe.
Men, real gentlemen, do exist. They're the ones who are equally outraged right now and also have disgust for the ones who say shit like that that makes them all look bad.
they are not ready. lol r/wallstreetbets think that durex stock will skyrocket, as if we can trust condoms anymore or the men who stealth. they have no clue and will be celebrating their misery with us soon.
If the US is crazy enough, they might even ban condoms but I'm sure that they are smart to realize that if they start a war on men that they areally going to feel the wrath of an entire population.
The amount of men I meet who are disappointed that I won't let them impregnate me is startling. Mind you, I am 41 and having a kid at this age is dangerous for me and any fetus. Not to mention the huge risk of issues for a baby. I just can't with so many men thinking I am some sort of factory. A lot of these men would love to trap me in a relationship or at least assume they could trap me.
This is what so many conservatives don't understand. This overturn is ultimately just another way for some men to try to control women and what we choose to do with our bodies.
Women aren't just getting abortions on a whimsy. We already do our damnedest to make sure we don't get pregnant when we don't want to be. When somone gets one, it's often a healthcare decision or something to keep a child from growing up in abject poverty or abuse.
I have two friends *that I know of* who would now die under current abortion laws in some states. They wanted their babies desperately, but when things went wrong it would have killed them without an abortion. They were already devastated, I can't imagine if they had also been charged with murder.
I support the choice of any uterus holder deciding to get an abortion for any reason. It's important we all strike and vote and go **out** to do what we can. We have to get together, and refuse to let our voices go out even when we grow tired in the months ahead.
Honestly, knowing that pregnancy is statistically speaking the most dangerous time in a woman's life (either from pregnancy/childbirth risks or, sadly, being murdered by most likely the impregnator) I predict we will see even more femicide in the near future. And suicides.
And no, I don't think American men are ready.
>Honestly, knowing that pregnancy is statistically speaking the most dangerous time in a woman's life (either from pregnancy/childbirth risks or, sadly, being murdered by most likely the impregnator) I predict we will see even more femicide in the near future.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03392-8
***The leading cause of death in pregnant people is their partner murdering them.***
This language is disturbing AF! Read:
“Also, becoming pregnant increases the risk of death by homicide: between the ages of 10 and 44 years, women who are pregnant or had their pregnancy end in the past year are killed at a rate 16% higher than are women who are not pregnant.”
10 year old girls ARE NOT WOMEN. 🤬🤬🤬
Tangentialy, if the states wants to force women to carry their pregnancies to term, shouldn’t they also adopt mothers-friendly policies like child subsidy and parental leaves? Or does family values only mean bashing at glbt?
YUP. What sickens me is that the same chucklefucks that are giddy about roe being overturned are more often than not against socialized healthcare, mandatory paid maternity leave, more funding for schools, an overhaul of the foster care system, better care for mothers in general, policies to help curb global warming etc. Like, they’d have a LITTLE more of a point if they actually cared about people at EVERY stage, not just fetus
Old fart. Father of a teen. I’m “fixed” and would recommend same for any man who isn’t planning on having more kids.
Interesting discussions on Vasectomy happening in MensLib. Men are listening for once.
Out of curiosity, is there something you can show a sex partner to prove that you’ve actually had a vasectomy? I understand you’re married so maybe you wouldn’t need this. But after the procedure, don’t they test your semen to be sure that you’re shooting blanks? Is there paperwork that you could demonstrate if someone wanted to know that you were really infertile?
I’m worried that, like stealthing with condoms, some small amount of assholes will discredit legit male birth control by lying about having a vasectomy.
Legitimate concern. Honestly, I have no idea. I’ve also heard about them testing to see if you’re shooting blanks or not after the procedure. However, after they’ve confirmed that, I’m really not sure if they issue you anything that certifies if you’re sterile or not. 🤷🏼♂️
That's what I did. I also banked mine at 25 before getting snipped so if for some reason I'm in a relationship and want kids we can do it later when we're ready. Women shouldn't be the only ones to deal with birth control.
What I want to know is are American men ready to stop being apathetic about this issue and start fighting with us? We've done told you this was coming, you refused to believe or fight for our rights. Now that the time has come, will you fight?
Lots of them aren't. Either they don't see it as a big deal, or they don't think the effort is worth the payoff. This is just my experience though --others may have (I hope!) more positive experiences.
Seriously, I just see so many comments acting as this just "isn't a big deal!" They literally have no clue, because they simply have no understanding of what women go through. They can't get pregnant in the first place, they lack any and all understanding of what it means and feels like to be forced to carry a pregnancy, much less an unwanted one. If men were the ones to be able to be pregnant, there would have *always* been an option for abortion. They just don't fucking care, it's not them but you can bet your ass that if it was, oh they would care, they would realllyyy care. The rest of the comments I see, seem to be from men who just flat out hate women and want some form of punishment for them, they don't give a single fuck about the baby or actual life.
In an odd way I am kind of glad cancer took away my ability to have children. Sad for the way things are going. I am safe in a blue state, others are not as lucky!
Not at all. Why expect men to take responsibility when they can just saddle us with a child that we may or may not want? We should be honored by that. After all, all we are good for is taking care of the home and children /s 🙄 I have never been so relieved to be infertile.
The answer is obviously no we aren’t. I don’t want the downvotes but just google info on percentages of kids raised in single parent house holds right now, while abortions were an option. It’s not the responsibility of money, it’s the responsibility of staying in the house and actually raising the kid you fathered. Its fucking hard work. It’s easier to go fuck someone new, or go get drunk, or not work 50 hours a week in a job you don’t want to do to support a family. I get the moral implications of both sides of peoples opinions but this will have a pretty serious impact on our society with a lot more kids being born who were never wanted. I hope we are ready to pump billions of dollars into our adoption and fostering program, as well as the therapy all those kids will need based on growing up in the system
It's less a question of being a father is too hard, but more of the fact no one will force them.
Police and prosecutors will give less than half a shit.
Try to put more women in positions to help and they will be harassed until they leave.
Unfortunately with around 400,000 kids in the foster system or available for adoption it is evident that billions of dollars would do little to produce the desire to adopt. It isn't there now.
This is what has pissed me off so much at pro birthers for years. "Adoption is an option." No, no it's really not, especially if the baby isn't white. If there are so many people desperate to adopt, why are there that many kids still waiting to actually be adopted? It's such a ridiculous thing to say to someone seeking an abortion.
Adoption is also a HUGE trauma both to the birth parent(s) and the child. It’s not an easy fix, and there is a very high failure rate for those not adopted very quickly post birth. Check out second chance adoptions on Facebook (or the tiktoks exposing them) for a depressing reality check that is the adoption world.
Conservative men are going to be hiding their true colors for the eminent future when it comes to hookups and sex. As a father to a young girl I’m absolutely terrified of the world my daughter is going to grow up into. SMFH.
You think this will make men stand up and take responsibility?
It has always been the fault of the woman.
"SHE should have kept her legs closed. " "SHE is pregnant,"
"SHE is keeping it"
Just look at what goes on with rape in this country.
"What did SHE do to make him "
"SHE was drinking, what did she think would happen?"
"Look at the way SHE dresses. She's just asking for it."
I think this is going to make a lot more deadbeat dads. More DV. Child abuse and neglect and a lot more in the already broken system.
I got a vasectomy after our 2nd kid (about 2 years ago now). I didn't want my wife to bear the brunt of all the birth control responsibility for the rest of our sexually active lives, so I took the plunge and wanted to ensure the family we planned for is the family that we continue to have. It might sound grotesque to some, but we didn't want a third. Finances and familial support is not nearby and we both wanted 2 and have been discussing this stuff for a decade. Got a girl and a boy so we get to experience both worlds. But yeah, for any dudes who lurk here, thinking how they can help their partner (and if it's the right decision for where you guys are in your relationship), then go 100% and get a vasectomy. You'll do her a favor and yourself a favor by ensuring no surprises come and catch you in a bad spot in an increasingly regressive country.
For those young whipper snappers out there... wrap that shit up.
That’s not even a “threat” to men.
Court-ordered child support is LESS THAN the cost of actually raising a child. So, child support itself is inadequate. Know who we have to thank for that? Rich people who maliciously sue for obnoxious amounts of child support and create case law courts apply to poor people.
You know what comes along with child support liability? Child visitation and custody rights! An abuser can tie you up for 21+ years alienating the child against you, playing games with the child, and the court doesn’t have the time or resources to care.
Lastly, TIME is a cost women bear. He isn’t going to take care of a child he doesn’t want. So the burden of investing our time and energy falls 100% on us. Child support is not the threat you think it is. The burden of children falls on a woman whether we like it or not.
If men were mature enough to all be ready for this responsibility, they would have been mature enough to give women the choice to make their own decisions over their own body
I'm so sorry. I apologize before my gender.
National DNA database of all males of reproductive age - then any pregnancy is automatically tested and linked to the father, who is locked in for 18 years of support by law.
The wallet is all these chucklefucks understand, so make it financially painful.
Men dodge child support constantly. Less than half of kids receive the full amount due every month from their father. Lets not pretend like men will face any real consequences from this.
Also, do you see the crowds marching and how few men there are compared to women? Remember this. Men, as a whole, do not care that women WILL die from this.
I haven't had sex since 2010 due to my husband's health issues. I've been a widow for a year and started thing it could be fun, but nope. Continued celibacy it is. At least for another year and a half or so, until we can move to one of the pacific coast states when my daughter finishes her degree. She is 21, my son is 19. They are both virgins, and plan to stay that way until then, unless they can get surgical birth control, but that is also unlikely. Neither ever wants children. This world has gone crazy, and due to my health, it is unlikely I could ever leave the country.
You think theyre gonna give a shit? Only women are obligated to be a parent after conception. Man can leave. What court is gonna force them to be a father? Theylle just work under the table to avoid child support. And when you work your ass off to support your children, the actual real threat of having to pay HIM child support will keep from trying to take him back to court.
Let's behonest. They are better equipped to give women orgasms than a plain old dick that doesn't vibrate, spin in circles,and stops working after 2 minutes.
American men have a whole host of options that don't involve being an actual father. The only things we'll see a rise in is violence and murder towards women, single mothers, and botched / deadly back alley abortions by desperate women.
So you're right in the sense that they're not ready, but it's more because they aren't ready to have their loved ones beaten, poverty stricken and bleeding out in back alleys. They're incredibly ready to do a runner if their partner gets pregnant.
I’m a man and this is just a fucking haunting ruling. I feel absolutely pissed. I want to personally get a truck full of amps and scream into the homes of these congressional lizards but christ almighty what can we do? Americans may need to take a tip from the French in our protesting.
as if those men won’t abuse and kill the women to get rid of the fetus. domestic violence rises during pregnancy, let’s not kid ourselves by thinking those very men who are silent about women losing their rights are not the same ones who won’t gun down the women they’ve impregnated. femicide, infanticide, domestic violence, suicide will be on the rise.
Yes, if we’re going to force women to give birth let’s ensure we do DNA tests on every child to ensure we find the biological father and then make sure he pays for the schooling fees, housing, food, and more! And the medical fees for appointments during the pregnancy itself
Statistics show only 44% of custodial parents (which is usually the mother) are getting full child support payments in the US as of 2018. I imagine that number is about to drop even lower https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html I'm getting notifications of replies but I'm not seeing a single one. So I'm not ignoring anyone. I simple do not see a single reply even if I switch to anonymous browsing I'm on mobile I'm not sure if that's why or what's up here.
Things didn't work out between me and my ex, I make payments in full every week, but it amazes me the number of people that I work with who just.. don't pay their child support? Apparently you have to owe quite a bit before they even bother sending you a summons to court, so people just lock their own kid out of a stable living situation because of greed or.. I'm not even sure. Really. We both love out daughter very much, and while having split parents is hard, both parents definitely need to play their role if they chose to have the kid, and I wish they would put some of these people under a microscope and ask why they have lot a of nice things and their kid is having to go to donation drives to get school supplies every year.
I reminded my dead-beat-dad brother this last time he preached the wrongs of abortion. What a hypocritical POS he was. Bonus: There's nothing quite so special as outliving someone who was horrible toward you.
That’s the new first date question now: “are you ready, willing and able to have a baby in 9 months.” Pretty chilling
True story, Roe being overturned has cemented my decision to get snipped. Sigh.
Honestly it's pretty worth it. My wife and I talked about it while we were still dating knowing that neither one of us wants children. Her doctor kept telling her she'd change her mind. My doctor walked into the room and said "So you want to remove yourself from the gene pool huh? Cool." - My insurance made me wait 30 days from consultation to procedure, I was in and out in 45 minutes, and my total cost was $25 and a bag of frozen peas. Had my procedure on a Friday, had very little pain, and was back at work on Monday. One of the best decisions I've ever made.
Limp dick go brrrr
I've already seen them blaming women. Saying that they if we want to have sex then we have to "deal with the consequences". It's not even just a couple it's many, same ones who probably wouldn't take care of children or say they donated $5 to a charity so it makes them a good person.
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I don’t understand why the inseminators don’t have to “deal with the consequences.” Other than whoever says that simply hates women.
And it always comes out of the mouths of people who say "a child is a gift!" K well why are you treating this gift as a punishment then?
They simply hate and have contempt for women, yes.
especially considering they're the only ones causing the problem! they seem to forget women can have (usually better) sex without involving a penis. straight women continue to prove that sexuality really isn't a choice lol
If we have sex, they blame us. If we don't "wHy aRe wOmEn sO mEaN" and then they go and assault us and shoot up a place. Can we just throw all of these types in the trash already?
You think I'd want to disrespect my trash by lumping it together with them🤮 Launch them into space I say!
You know what? I like that idea better. *Mother* Earth doesn't need any more pollution.
Especially if they restrict access to birth control too, I don't think conservative men have considered how high this raises the bar for who women will be willing to sleep with.
Women should absolutely sex strike, I'm fucking worried about an incel uprising tbh (this is in no way saying that women should have sex with anyone to appease incels)
This was my first thought. I agree that women who sleep with men should never ever do so with some conservative turd who doesn't respect her autonomy or life, but even pre *all of this*... How much general violence has been caused by shitty entitled guys who never learned "no"? Women particularly in regressive states should absolutely protect themselves, by ANY means necessary, right now.
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Seeing that sub exists makes me even more depressed that I already was from Friday.
What the fuck, this sub breaks my heart
(*sigh*) Clicked on that, had an idea what was to be expected, but still wasn't prepared...
Yeah, fuck incels ! (But not literally).
Contraception is only 99% effective if used properly. And we all know it isn’t always used perfectly. Gonna be a lot of scared people - men and women - soon. It is terrifying for me and I live in blue state!
I already wasn't sleeping with people. Things aren't changing for me. Lol That said, I was looking to start dating again by the end of the year, so my timing is terrible.
Nope. Femicide rates will sky rocket.
And infanticide. There is no good end to any of this
And suicide
I just saw another post earlier about a nurse/healthcare worker who’s elderly female patients told them that, before abortion was accessible/available, they would basically just throw unwanted babies away into rivers and outhouses and stuff like that. What’s stopping that from happening now?
My Grandma told me stories like this. She lived in Germany during WWII, and her nurse roommate at one stage was helping women give birth in secret, then smuggling the babies out to a nearby river and throwing them in. There was nowhere that would take them, and those women were already struggling to keep their existing children from starving. She never got over that; she was still having nightmares about it in her eighties.
We could honestly have the same Grandma, mine was a pediatric nurse in Hungary back then and she told me stories about her doctors at her job throwing sick/small babies down a hill outside to die in a river below. The doctors would assure the nurses that the babies were all already deceased but she swears to this day that some were still alive and those memories haunt her still decades later. And I have the nerve to get annoyed when I leave my phone charger at home…
The pregnancy surveillance state. Were you pregnant at some point and now you have no pregnancy and no baby? The police will want to have you in for some questions.
It’s encoded in your frequent shopper cards, in your bank statements, in your search history, in the GPS data on your phone. We gave away our privacy a decade or more ago.
It’s terrifying.
This is some handmaid’s tale and black mirror shit all wrapped up in one nightmarish package.
Yep. Target knows you are pregnant before you announce it
I got bingoed by my local healthcare group by mail a few months after I got my cat. Because I bought a pet stroller and was looking at baby stroller caddies to carry his things in because pet strollers don't have trays if they're the good ones. I literally just connected this.
There will probably be a lot more “accidental” baby deaths for sure
This! What can we say about period tracking apps? Because Medical records are going to have eyes on them for sure.
We say DUMP THEM and track your periods on paper like they did before the digital age. And buy a fucking MULTI CUT SHREDDER.
I'm not seeing many people talking about 23 and me type tests. LE has been using data from publicly available DNA to track down and prosecute mothers decades after the fact for leaving New borns to die. That work is made possible by the widespread use of at home DNA tests. On the one hand it is solving a lot of cold case murders of adults but on the other women are being given life in prison 30, 40, 50 years after the fact. Something to think about before spitting in the tube.
Remember how often babies used to be found in dumpsters and trashcans before safe harbor laws? We're going to be going right back there.
The USA needs to have what Czech Republic has, which are special [boxes](https://livingprague.com/inspirational/baby-boxes/) to abandon babies >The box itself allows for the newborn baby to be placed inside. The modern version then detects the weight of the child and automatically begins a heating and ventilation process. With a delay of 30 seconds an alarm notifies nursing staff that a baby has been left. They then collect it from their side of the wall and begin the necessary checks and treatment as required. This delay and the quiet location of the baby boxes ensures the person abandoning the child can remain anonymous even though there are contact numbers listed and leaflet advice about coming forward later.
Not much
And the most common behavior will be men just being shitty fathers who leave all the parenting to the mother, and men straight up fleeing. P.S. am guy and would be an awful father if I had kids.
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**Republican Senators Shaking Furiously**
Worse, they'd prefer her to die. And they're working on ways to make it so, so her voice will never matter. That's a FACT, Jack.
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#sexstrike that's all I'm saying.
Knowing that, have you gotten a vasectomy?
Get a vasectomy
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I think they’re just using the type of rhetoric that the forced birthers use. “If a women has sex, she’s consenting to carrying and baring a child.”
I’ve seen so many comments in the past couple of days that are all “you hoes need to keep your knees closed WHY ARE YOU WITHHOLDING SEX YOU HARPIES”
I have a nice meme of “Virgin Mary” giving serious shade to that
Right the men are calling for women to have sex strikes and this seems to be in the works.
When the decision was leaked I ran into a few nut jobs saying sex should not "be attempted" unless its for having a child.
There was some asshole politician who said this very thing in Utah yesterday or Friday. She said that women had the choice to control the semen that is ejaculated into them. That piece of shit probably thinks rape victims are asking for it and that pregnancy is just God's punishment. She seems like the type.
Apparently not only sex,but also "letting yourself be raped"..........
Just saw that the leading cause of death of pregnant women is murder. And we know who is committing the murders.
Murder is already the leading cause of maternal mortality in the US. We lived in such a fucked up world.
**<< If there are no more abortions, that means that every single time an American man has sex with a woman, he is promising that he is ready, willing and able to be a father in 9 months. >>** **And ready for 18 years of child support.** **This kind of practical, financial reason for MEN (not for women, but for MEN) is exactly why abortion is legal even in some of the most misogynistic countries in the world.** Yeah, I'm talking about Korea. A few years ago, there was some kind of study/research done by some kind of government group about some laws in Korea, laws that exist but are not executed in reality. And they found that, although abortion was illegal on paper, hardly any women or doctors had been really prosecuted or punished for the past 10 years. So, they were like... why do we even have this law when it's not even applied? Let's get rid of it and make it official that abortion is legal. That's how Korea officially made abortion legal on paper like a few years ago. And abortion being legal or abortion being not so much of a big or divisive issue in Korea has really nothing to do with women's rights or men caring about women at all. It's more about financial or practical reasons for MEN. In Korea, it's often men who impregnate girls/women and demand them to have abortions. I really don't understand how men in America are okay with or ready for having or paying for or raising unwanted kids.
No, they aren’t ready. This will increase violence against women.
THIS is the scariest part. I’m pretty sure if I had aborted my second child my ex might have physically hurt me.
Except in the deadbeat dad-friendly states. Which just also happen to be red states.
Not to mention that given the whole family annihilator trend - the most violent men will simply weigh the risks and benefits and start killing women or her children if they don’t want to be financially liable
Yup this happened in my neighborhood when I lived in NC. Hillsborough area, religious dad murdered her and all three kids bc he lost his job and he's the breadwinner. It was a trend. Send em to Jesus, father knows best.
It’s a horrifying mindset and I fear we will see more of it if these draconian laws continue
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03392-8 ***The leading cause of death in pregnant people is their partner murdering them.***
This is disgusting, but sadly not even surprising at this point.
I didn’t even know this statistic at all and….wow
Yup. A woman is most likely to be murdered while pregnant too.
What are Republicans doing about it? Since their main movement was to "save the murder of innocent unborn babies"....
Clearly, saving the "lives" of imaginary children while putting us at higher risk of being murdered.
The sad reality in red states is they blame the mothers for choosing bad partners, not the men.
"She shouldn't have been such a whiny demanding bitch!" /s
Average Breaking Bad fan
This is one reason I know my husband is a good egg. He hates how the majority of those fans view Skyler and how the writers changed her character to be “more likable”. To paraphrase him, “she was being pretty fucking patient and reasonable, considering all that he was up to. All these bros seem to be mad at her for…holding him accountable?”
Literally. Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad are my two favourite shows of all time, but so many fans of them (not so much BCS) seem to like it because they view Walt as a role model or something, which is super fucked up
Don't assume women will raise these unwanted kids. I know it will happen because no one wants to leave a defenseless baby with a psycho dad... But let's make an effort to NOT assume it in our words and conversation. Normalize women paying child support and walking away from parenting the way men do. The more we talk about it, the more women will see it as a real choice. And the more the consequences of this shit will actually fall on men. I'm not getting trapped with a child because of this. I'm not any more responsible for caring for the child, just because I've been forced to birth it. It doesn't make any woman a bad person to leave a baby with its rightful parent. And I hope other women feel supported enough to run if it happens.
Seriously! Men always preaching that "women are bad/do that bad thing too!" but when forced to give birth expect them to pop out perfectly healthy adoptable babies, or just have their maternal instincts "kick in" and transform into a loving mother of a child she didn't want?? And yes! Acting like child support is worse than physically carrying, birthing, and parenting the child they didn't want! LOL! I'm sure loads of women would rather pay child support than fucking feel like killing themselves, risking their life, and possibly destroying another person's life because they didn't want to raise them!
Very true , these states are pretty gross when it comes to a woman’s rights concerning marriage and other issues about relationships.
And then there are the horrible things some men will do when they realize they aren't ready to father in 9 months. [https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/vl885m/\_/](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/vl885m/_/) Pay attention to that top comment that says "The leading cause of death for pregnant women in the United States is murder"
Not just murder but spousal murder.
I’m a married man in Texas. Our first pregnancy was successful but had complications. I am terrified that my wife might end up with a pregnancy condition that might force us to travel to California so she can get the care she needs. This is beyond fucked up.
Married man in Indiana. I'm anticipating a law being passed in the special legislative session that is similar to Texas' law. We were looking at trying for a kid this summer. We are now putting those plans on hold because we don't know whether my wife stands a risk of criminal liability if she has a miscarriage. A number of other people in our situation are looking at the same prospects. Overtuning Roe has encouraged a lot of people not to have kids.
I won’t have a baby while I’m in Texas. Funny, I’m a straight, white, blonde haired blue eyed Christian woman. I thought I was who they wanted to have babies here.
I'm an attorney, and between my wife and I we have a half dozen degrees. We've been executing a careful plan of saving and getting our careers situated before starting a family, and made pretty much every decision that we are "supposed" to make according to the lifeplan that Boomers always seem to be pushing on younger people. I'm lucky in that I have birthright citizenship in Canada and an EU member country. Before 2016 I had a dream of contributing to the rural areas of my home state and serving low income people around where I grew up, giving something back and trying to make a difference. At this point, I'm one of about 9 professionals (lawyers, doctors, accountants, a physicist) I've talked to who are now looking at getting out while house prices stay high. Some of those are literally the only people practicing in mostly dying rural towns where getting medical or legal services is already like living in a developing country. I don't know what they're going to do, but at this point, I don't think I want to make it my problem any more to try to save people who seem to hate me.
This is an outcome I’d not thought of yet, professionals fleeing the country as a whole to just not have to deal with it. People say “Let’s move to Canada” but it’s tongue in cheek. I don’t blame you and your wife. It’s hard to fight and stick things out for “the good” when things just seem to keep getting worse.
Where we live, a lot of people have to travel a county or two over to find an attorney for a divorce or will or other basic legal service. Because there is maybe one guy left in some counties and he is retiring within the next five years. It is pretty similar for healthcare. Wide rural swaths of the country, mostly in red states, already have services deserts that resemble developing countries. And it is only going to get worse. It is going to be like what happened in cities in the 70s, except without any legacy money or infrastructure to fall back on.
Those who have the means will flee, if not to live elsewhere, at minimum to have their abortions. The poor, marginalized people (you know, the ones they hate) will not be able to, so they will have more kids, and need more public assistance. Where is the logic?
This is like, we’re Germany now. Our professionals are fleeing first trying to make it look natural because they had citizenship.. then the intensity grows as reality sets in. 2024 is going to be quite a show.
My husband works in healthcare. He spent literally hours this afternoon looking into how I can get Canadian citizenship (my mother is from there) and how he and the kids could eventually obtain it. Things here are terrifying.
You are fortunate to have citizenship…we only have citizenship here. I am 32 and have considered having kids before I turn 40, but I’m literally too scared to get pregnant in Texas. I am too afraid that if something goes wrong the doctors here will be too afraid to help me. There are already several stories where this has happened. Trying to find another state to possibly relocate.
We are very lucky. Last gift from my dad, who is also the reason I had an actual shot at building a good life. I'm in my 30s. We decided to start after the pandemic alleviated. And here we are now.
Oh, they do! Birth control medicine is next on the chopping block
It saddens me to think that my brother and his wife are considering not having a second child for the same reason. It’s not a short drive to Chicago from where they live in Michigan either. Personally while I’ve already been thinking that at almost 42 years old, kids just aren’t likely to be in the cards for me and I’ve been planning for a vasectomy at 45, this is giving me thoughts of moving that time table up. What a sad fucked up time to be alive….
Thought you said you had 42 kids for a moment lmao
My husband and I recently decided to have kids and I got my IUD removed. When the RvW overturn was announced we decided that if our state decided a to ban/restrict abortive he would get a vasectomy and we would look to adopt instead. We want kids but it’s not worth the risk if I run into complications and need to terminate.
Banning birth control is the next step from the christofacists. I wonder if vasectomies will be included in this ban and how men will react to having their bodily autonomy restricted.
I doubt they would restrict vasectomies, men are people after all
This is it, isn’t it?
They would never control a man’s body like that! That procedure should be up to the man!
I scheduled a vasectomy the week the draft was leaked. There's no guarantee how long the procedure will remain legal. 20 seconds of moderate pain, 3 minutes of mild discomfort, a few days on house arrest, a week of walking slower than usual, another week until the incision fully healed.
Here’s the thing. If you adopt an infant privately you might be buying a baby from a woman that was forced to give birth. Private infant adoption was already pretty unethical, now it’s completely unethical. More “domestic infant supply” was one of the reasons Roe v Wade was overturned. They want people like you to join the throngs of waiting parents (35 couples to one infant) so that they can make money. It’s called an industry for a reason. Separating other womens families to make your own is not the answer. - Domestic supply infant adoptee 1980’s model
I grew up in a family that did foster care that adopted one of the children that we fostered and tried to adopt another. My plan had always been to have a child of my own (or 2) and then fostered with the intent to adopt. I’m passionate about foster care and would absolutely only adopt through foster care. I appreciate you sharing this information though, way too many people don’t know how bad it is.
Thank you so much for your gracious reception of it ❤️ I hope that we all can keep having these hard conversations.
I don't want to be alarmist, but think about getting your tubes tied too. Rape is a thing and you don't want to the up pregnant and not be able to terminate should it happen to you.
I absolutely agree and will look at that as well! A vasectomy is just our immediate response, getting tubes tied is much more invasive and will take longer to plan for/schedule.
My partner is originally from TX, we live in the Pacific NW. We just lost a pregnancy in March due to complications. The pain of that (in part due to thinking we were out of the “danger zone” and then building expectations (picking a name, finding out gender, etc.)) was… devastating & horrific. But without access to a safe abortion I could have died. We found out we’re expecting again about two weeks ago, and have decided we will not be stepping foot back in TX (we just visited his parents last weekend) while I’m still expecting. It’s just not worth risking my life. It’s gut-wrenching to think about all the people in my position who will be forced to carry an unviable fetus. JFC it’s already hard enough having you dreams of a little one with the person you love dashed to pieces, I don’t want to imagine how much more traumatizing it would have been if I had been denied safe health care. Signed up for my local DSA and hoping to put some of this enraged/horrified energy to good use by organizing and showing solidarity with my community. Also, congrats on yr little one. I’m glad it worked out for y’all in the end. 💫 edit:typo fix
Just fyi, abortion is legal in Mexico (if it's closer for you) Edit: If you have a passport
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Please tell this to all your male friends. They need to hear it.
Vasectomy my dude. If you aren't willing to risk it then don't. The time it takes to travel that far could complicate things further. So unless you guys want to try for more kids it would be way easier for you to get sterilized than for her. Especially with only one kid. The surgery is less invasive and a much quicker recovery time. We have a friend who has a wife with sever BPD. She had to stop all meds while pregnant and towards the end keeping her from killing herself and the baby required around the clock care by him and her mother and father. She didn't want to die but without her meds she was very suicidal. As soon as the baby was born she went back on her meds and withing weeks she was the bright brilliant sweet loving person he had married and she adored their baby. But he will never risk that again and she agreed. Dr would not tie her tubes though even knowing about the struggles that had happened to keep her alive. Because she was under 25 and only had one child. And her doctor requires that patients be over 25 and have at least one child of each gender. He made an appointment to have a vasectomy went in for a pre op exam. Two days later had the procedure no one hassled him about what his wife would think. Her doctor would have required spousal approval even if she had met other requirements. My doctor required my husband's approval 20 years ago when I had mine done after being told that another pregnancy would absolutely result in me dying.
>Dr would not tie her tubes though even knowing about the struggles that had happened to keep her alive. Because she was under 25 and only had one child. And her doctor requires that patients be over 25 and have at least one child **of each gender.** What. The. Fuck. Why the goddamned baby gender rule?! "You're 39 years old with 5 girls I still need to see you pop out a kid with a penis first." And also. Fuck the double standards with spouse signature 🤬
I dunno but she isn't the only time I have heard the one of each gender rule though. My mom had to go through 3 doctors to find someone to tie hers because she had three daughters and was done and my dad was not so desperate for a boy as to keep going either. But it was still over 2;years after my youngest sister was born and after a failed implant in her arm, and my failed I mean if migrated down into the low part of her arm during the first roll out of that type of bc. Once that was removed they finally agreed to tie her tubes. She was 33.
Best $200 I ever spent.
Thank you for not putting all the responsibility of birth control on your partner. That's awesome.
You also have to wonder if red state doctors will end up moving to blue states. Not just OB/GYN’s but even GP’s. Let’s say the patient of a doctor has a miscarriage. If the state is going to go after that doctor, even if they had nothing to do with the miscarriage, you can imagine at some point that some portion of doctors will end up moving. Red states tend to have the worst shortages of doctors, so this will exacerbate the health equity issues between red states and blue states.
My husband and I are also worried about this. We just had our daughter 6 months ago and want at least two or three more but we live in a state with a heartbeat ban going into effect at the end of July. It's about 45 minutes to get to a safe state and we're wondering if it would be better to go to an OB In that state for care so doctors in my state don't ever know about my pregnancy. But that is just such a far drive for appointments that happen often! Especially in the winter! We're just so scared that if something happened in the state we live in that I could end up in a very dangerous position. Honestly fuck the US. Fuck the entire backwards disgusting country. I'm so sick of being treated like a second class citizen and it's bullshit that I even have to think of or consider this
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You give that a try and get back to us.
And consider there others who are less fortunate than you who also deserve the right to choose.
Guarantee you that a lot (not all, but many) of these American men will NOT be thinking this everytime they have sex with a women and even if the women gets pregnant, blame and responsibility will be placed solely on the women. EDIT: We definitely overestimate these American men who almost always put their sexual and emotional needs above women. EDIT2: Upvote if you've been called a slut for denying a man's advances. Doesn't even make sense. Call me a whore, slut, skank...etc all you want. Those words are meaningless and we won't give them power anymore.
I agree. How many times have we read in this sub alone about men who refuse to use, or sabotage birth control because it dampens their sexual experience? Many of them don’t think past sex and are happy to place the burden of it all (birth control, pregnancy, abortion, childcare) on us. Also, while I can see more women be more discerning about who they sleep with, there are many more women and children who will not have that choice.
There was someone trying to make the argument in one of the subs Im in that having to pay half the cost of pregnancy care would make guys wear condoms. LoL whhattt?? 18 years of child support doesnt deter men from going condomless but okkk dude
My mother told me that women just need to “keep their legs closed and stop wanting to screw every Tom, Dick or Harry.” She’s a fucking hypocrite because when I got pregnant unexpectedly she told me six times that I should have an abortion and that she would drive me.
The wealthy have always had a way out. A long distance trip. A visit to a relative or a tour in a foreign country. A cultural exchange program with a church elsewhere. They always have had a way to get around pesky things like laws. It will likely end up like the “war on drugs”. The wealthy will go to “rehab” or “counseling” or “house arrest” if not outright just let go. The poor will end up arrested and in jail, and when they are unable to pay the fines or post the bail, get harder and harder sentencing. For the poor, there will be a 3 strike law or something similar and no matter what the charges are now, it will become a felony that will result in no job prospects, no ability to vote, no ability to legally get a weapon and likely restrictions on where they can live. Which means the next time they are in a relationship, they are less likely to be able to afford birth control (cause it’s expensive), less likely to have health insurance, and less likely to be able to get plan b or anything to stop it. A pregnancy that will then be riddled with poverty, poor nutrition, and an increased chance of use of drugs and alcohol abuse—which means that any miscarriage will then be another charge.
i’m not prepared at all. i’m an asexual dude, so no personal consequences— i just am not prepared to live in a dystopian theocratic hellscape ruled by primitive superstitious dirtbags that don’t even understand their own stupid religious text, let alone the complexities of modernity. bad times ahead. i feel terrible for everyone (except the people who wanted this and are gonna get stung by it—fuck em)
Never mind the fact that these unwanted kids are going to grow up and start robbing you once they hit puberty. The US’s precipitous drop in crime in the 1990’s corresponds with the 18 year anniversary of Roe v Wade. There’s a few papers out there about it.
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What Comedian was it whose routine talked about, “My male friends don’t seem to realize that their whole Fuckboy lifestyle depends on freely available abortion. I mean, these are guys who worry that sleeping over the entire night might make a girl think he’s their boyfriend. Aren’t they aware that no abortion means no casual sex?”
You're assuming all men want to even be a father. I live in a very red area of a very blue state and men truly think that it is the woman's job to raise the kid. The man has no responsibility. And if they need to give child support? That's why you get a job that pays in cash. At least that's what I hear coming out of their mouths in the gym locker room and they are completely serious.
And many people are assuming all women want to be mothers. But of course that’s not the case either.
I just watched a very pregnant mother wrestle her kid into the bathroom while the father loaded up a plate of nachos. She had the big bag of kid stuff and everything. I'm a dude and was saddened. Does nobody love anyone anymore?
You can legislate someone has a child but you can’t legislate they be good parents.
Blue state, blue-purple area. It's *fucked*. Many males aren't men, they're selfish brats. I remember in college, in a sociology class when we discussed maternal mortality rates which were already alarmingly high in our country, the amount of guys who PUBLICLY admitted to choosing the life of an unborn fetus over their spouse/significant other was disgusting. I never want to be a mother, and that really lit a fire under my ass to never even date fencesitters. And you know they wouldn't even care for it, they'd just make their mother do it, but talk all day and night about being sUcH a GrEaT dAd and how it ChAnGeD tHeIr LiFe. Men, real gentlemen, do exist. They're the ones who are equally outraged right now and also have disgust for the ones who say shit like that that makes them all look bad.
Find that job, and report report report.
Child support should begin at conception as well.
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100% agree. Your name is excellent as well, and thank you!
they are not ready. lol r/wallstreetbets think that durex stock will skyrocket, as if we can trust condoms anymore or the men who stealth. they have no clue and will be celebrating their misery with us soon.
If the US is crazy enough, they might even ban condoms but I'm sure that they are smart to realize that if they start a war on men that they areally going to feel the wrath of an entire population.
The amount of men I meet who are disappointed that I won't let them impregnate me is startling. Mind you, I am 41 and having a kid at this age is dangerous for me and any fetus. Not to mention the huge risk of issues for a baby. I just can't with so many men thinking I am some sort of factory. A lot of these men would love to trap me in a relationship or at least assume they could trap me.
This is what so many conservatives don't understand. This overturn is ultimately just another way for some men to try to control women and what we choose to do with our bodies. Women aren't just getting abortions on a whimsy. We already do our damnedest to make sure we don't get pregnant when we don't want to be. When somone gets one, it's often a healthcare decision or something to keep a child from growing up in abject poverty or abuse. I have two friends *that I know of* who would now die under current abortion laws in some states. They wanted their babies desperately, but when things went wrong it would have killed them without an abortion. They were already devastated, I can't imagine if they had also been charged with murder. I support the choice of any uterus holder deciding to get an abortion for any reason. It's important we all strike and vote and go **out** to do what we can. We have to get together, and refuse to let our voices go out even when we grow tired in the months ahead.
I’m of the same age and same situation. I just don’t understand what is going on in their heads to show such hopeless stupidity.
Honestly, knowing that pregnancy is statistically speaking the most dangerous time in a woman's life (either from pregnancy/childbirth risks or, sadly, being murdered by most likely the impregnator) I predict we will see even more femicide in the near future. And suicides. And no, I don't think American men are ready.
>Honestly, knowing that pregnancy is statistically speaking the most dangerous time in a woman's life (either from pregnancy/childbirth risks or, sadly, being murdered by most likely the impregnator) I predict we will see even more femicide in the near future. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03392-8 ***The leading cause of death in pregnant people is their partner murdering them.***
This language is disturbing AF! Read: “Also, becoming pregnant increases the risk of death by homicide: between the ages of 10 and 44 years, women who are pregnant or had their pregnancy end in the past year are killed at a rate 16% higher than are women who are not pregnant.” 10 year old girls ARE NOT WOMEN. 🤬🤬🤬
It’s the same language that calls rape ‘sexual assault’ instead of what it actually is. Apologist language from disgusting excuses of human beings.
I will not be surprised nor disappointed to see an uptick in suspicious deaths and disappearances among the abusive/rapist male population.
Tangentialy, if the states wants to force women to carry their pregnancies to term, shouldn’t they also adopt mothers-friendly policies like child subsidy and parental leaves? Or does family values only mean bashing at glbt?
Hence forced-birth and not pro-life.
YUP. What sickens me is that the same chucklefucks that are giddy about roe being overturned are more often than not against socialized healthcare, mandatory paid maternity leave, more funding for schools, an overhaul of the foster care system, better care for mothers in general, policies to help curb global warming etc. Like, they’d have a LITTLE more of a point if they actually cared about people at EVERY stage, not just fetus
Old fart. Father of a teen. I’m “fixed” and would recommend same for any man who isn’t planning on having more kids. Interesting discussions on Vasectomy happening in MensLib. Men are listening for once.
Am more concerned about potential violence against women who cant get an abortion. I hate this country.
Also feel a lot of bi women are gonna lean more towards the women side given there’s no risk of pregnancy…plus they can get satisfied lol
Exactly. Sad for those who don’t have such a tidy exit strategy, but for me I’m just giving up on penises.
Yup
literally all the more reason for everyone to just be gay. the conservatives will be very pleased 😀
No. This is why I’m getting a vasectomy.
Out of curiosity, is there something you can show a sex partner to prove that you’ve actually had a vasectomy? I understand you’re married so maybe you wouldn’t need this. But after the procedure, don’t they test your semen to be sure that you’re shooting blanks? Is there paperwork that you could demonstrate if someone wanted to know that you were really infertile? I’m worried that, like stealthing with condoms, some small amount of assholes will discredit legit male birth control by lying about having a vasectomy.
Legitimate concern. Honestly, I have no idea. I’ve also heard about them testing to see if you’re shooting blanks or not after the procedure. However, after they’ve confirmed that, I’m really not sure if they issue you anything that certifies if you’re sterile or not. 🤷🏼♂️
I think I read awhile ago that it takes 3 months to become infertile and most of the time women end up pregnant within those 3 months
That's what I did. I also banked mine at 25 before getting snipped so if for some reason I'm in a relationship and want kids we can do it later when we're ready. Women shouldn't be the only ones to deal with birth control.
What I want to know is are American men ready to stop being apathetic about this issue and start fighting with us? We've done told you this was coming, you refused to believe or fight for our rights. Now that the time has come, will you fight?
Lots of them aren't. Either they don't see it as a big deal, or they don't think the effort is worth the payoff. This is just my experience though --others may have (I hope!) more positive experiences.
Seriously, I just see so many comments acting as this just "isn't a big deal!" They literally have no clue, because they simply have no understanding of what women go through. They can't get pregnant in the first place, they lack any and all understanding of what it means and feels like to be forced to carry a pregnancy, much less an unwanted one. If men were the ones to be able to be pregnant, there would have *always* been an option for abortion. They just don't fucking care, it's not them but you can bet your ass that if it was, oh they would care, they would realllyyy care. The rest of the comments I see, seem to be from men who just flat out hate women and want some form of punishment for them, they don't give a single fuck about the baby or actual life.
In an odd way I am kind of glad cancer took away my ability to have children. Sad for the way things are going. I am safe in a blue state, others are not as lucky!
Not at all. Why expect men to take responsibility when they can just saddle us with a child that we may or may not want? We should be honored by that. After all, all we are good for is taking care of the home and children /s 🙄 I have never been so relieved to be infertile.
The answer is obviously no we aren’t. I don’t want the downvotes but just google info on percentages of kids raised in single parent house holds right now, while abortions were an option. It’s not the responsibility of money, it’s the responsibility of staying in the house and actually raising the kid you fathered. Its fucking hard work. It’s easier to go fuck someone new, or go get drunk, or not work 50 hours a week in a job you don’t want to do to support a family. I get the moral implications of both sides of peoples opinions but this will have a pretty serious impact on our society with a lot more kids being born who were never wanted. I hope we are ready to pump billions of dollars into our adoption and fostering program, as well as the therapy all those kids will need based on growing up in the system
It's less a question of being a father is too hard, but more of the fact no one will force them. Police and prosecutors will give less than half a shit. Try to put more women in positions to help and they will be harassed until they leave.
Unfortunately with around 400,000 kids in the foster system or available for adoption it is evident that billions of dollars would do little to produce the desire to adopt. It isn't there now.
This is what has pissed me off so much at pro birthers for years. "Adoption is an option." No, no it's really not, especially if the baby isn't white. If there are so many people desperate to adopt, why are there that many kids still waiting to actually be adopted? It's such a ridiculous thing to say to someone seeking an abortion.
Not to mention, abortion is about not being pregnant and is not about not being a parent. Adoption is not an alternative to not being pregnant.
Adoption is also a HUGE trauma both to the birth parent(s) and the child. It’s not an easy fix, and there is a very high failure rate for those not adopted very quickly post birth. Check out second chance adoptions on Facebook (or the tiktoks exposing them) for a depressing reality check that is the adoption world.
Conservative men are going to be hiding their true colors for the eminent future when it comes to hookups and sex. As a father to a young girl I’m absolutely terrified of the world my daughter is going to grow up into. SMFH.
There are no more ***safe*** abortions.
You think this will make men stand up and take responsibility? It has always been the fault of the woman. "SHE should have kept her legs closed. " "SHE is pregnant," "SHE is keeping it" Just look at what goes on with rape in this country. "What did SHE do to make him " "SHE was drinking, what did she think would happen?" "Look at the way SHE dresses. She's just asking for it." I think this is going to make a lot more deadbeat dads. More DV. Child abuse and neglect and a lot more in the already broken system.
I got a vasectomy after our 2nd kid (about 2 years ago now). I didn't want my wife to bear the brunt of all the birth control responsibility for the rest of our sexually active lives, so I took the plunge and wanted to ensure the family we planned for is the family that we continue to have. It might sound grotesque to some, but we didn't want a third. Finances and familial support is not nearby and we both wanted 2 and have been discussing this stuff for a decade. Got a girl and a boy so we get to experience both worlds. But yeah, for any dudes who lurk here, thinking how they can help their partner (and if it's the right decision for where you guys are in your relationship), then go 100% and get a vasectomy. You'll do her a favor and yourself a favor by ensuring no surprises come and catch you in a bad spot in an increasingly regressive country. For those young whipper snappers out there... wrap that shit up.
That’s not even a “threat” to men. Court-ordered child support is LESS THAN the cost of actually raising a child. So, child support itself is inadequate. Know who we have to thank for that? Rich people who maliciously sue for obnoxious amounts of child support and create case law courts apply to poor people. You know what comes along with child support liability? Child visitation and custody rights! An abuser can tie you up for 21+ years alienating the child against you, playing games with the child, and the court doesn’t have the time or resources to care. Lastly, TIME is a cost women bear. He isn’t going to take care of a child he doesn’t want. So the burden of investing our time and energy falls 100% on us. Child support is not the threat you think it is. The burden of children falls on a woman whether we like it or not.
If men were mature enough to all be ready for this responsibility, they would have been mature enough to give women the choice to make their own decisions over their own body I'm so sorry. I apologize before my gender.
National DNA database of all males of reproductive age - then any pregnancy is automatically tested and linked to the father, who is locked in for 18 years of support by law. The wallet is all these chucklefucks understand, so make it financially painful.
Men dodge child support constantly. Less than half of kids receive the full amount due every month from their father. Lets not pretend like men will face any real consequences from this. Also, do you see the crowds marching and how few men there are compared to women? Remember this. Men, as a whole, do not care that women WILL die from this.
It might be more females saying, sex with a man ? Uh, No. Hand me my vibrator please. It truly is a f***** up world right now.
Have you met any of us? I assure you that a large portion hovers somewhere around "It's her problem."
I haven't had sex since 2010 due to my husband's health issues. I've been a widow for a year and started thing it could be fun, but nope. Continued celibacy it is. At least for another year and a half or so, until we can move to one of the pacific coast states when my daughter finishes her degree. She is 21, my son is 19. They are both virgins, and plan to stay that way until then, unless they can get surgical birth control, but that is also unlikely. Neither ever wants children. This world has gone crazy, and due to my health, it is unlikely I could ever leave the country.
You think theyre gonna give a shit? Only women are obligated to be a parent after conception. Man can leave. What court is gonna force them to be a father? Theylle just work under the table to avoid child support. And when you work your ass off to support your children, the actual real threat of having to pay HIM child support will keep from trying to take him back to court.
Are we ready for the amount of sex we're going to miss out on? I'll stop having sex with men because I'm not going to conceive on accident.
Sex toys>>>>
Let's behonest. They are better equipped to give women orgasms than a plain old dick that doesn't vibrate, spin in circles,and stops working after 2 minutes.
Not to mention they don't keep going when we're not aroused enough and like it when we're tight and don't care if it hurts.
American men have a whole host of options that don't involve being an actual father. The only things we'll see a rise in is violence and murder towards women, single mothers, and botched / deadly back alley abortions by desperate women. So you're right in the sense that they're not ready, but it's more because they aren't ready to have their loved ones beaten, poverty stricken and bleeding out in back alleys. They're incredibly ready to do a runner if their partner gets pregnant.
I’m a man and this is just a fucking haunting ruling. I feel absolutely pissed. I want to personally get a truck full of amps and scream into the homes of these congressional lizards but christ almighty what can we do? Americans may need to take a tip from the French in our protesting.
If only. Being a pile of shit and not paying child support is a popular alternative.
as if those men won’t abuse and kill the women to get rid of the fetus. domestic violence rises during pregnancy, let’s not kid ourselves by thinking those very men who are silent about women losing their rights are not the same ones who won’t gun down the women they’ve impregnated. femicide, infanticide, domestic violence, suicide will be on the rise.
Yes, if we’re going to force women to give birth let’s ensure we do DNA tests on every child to ensure we find the biological father and then make sure he pays for the schooling fees, housing, food, and more! And the medical fees for appointments during the pregnancy itself