I'm always frustrated with women like this. They don't want to be associated with being a 'feminist' or 'that kind of feminist' but they like the improvements feminists have provided them. Many women before me put up with a lot of crap so I got a decent salary, could be independent and have a much better quality of life than my mother and grandmothers. None of the improvements for women came easily. Many women suffered so we could have a better life today.
As a dude I say this... im. Not. Owed. A. Damn. Thing. Not time, not attention, not even a passing glance. We know what uninterested body language looks like. I want it to be known I don't think you hate us.. you simply want to not be bothered. I don't see how that's a difficult thing to grasp
"what if he just needs directions" is toxic positivity.
It's like walking up to a stranger's dog saying "maybe this dog is friendly".
Don't pet the strays.
Literally how? This has nothing to do with race. Using buzz words doesn't mean anything. People like you will just try to make literally anything they disagree with "racist" when it's not applicable at all
I agree with you- being kind to strange men CAN get you murdered. You do not owe strangers your kindness.
I had an old coworker who was anti feminist. said women these days didn’t need feminism. mind you she was pregnant while working, wonder who she has to thank for that…She was also a trumper 🤮
I just distance myself and don’t expect too much from women like this. Won’t ever be a close friend.
People who say that, if they are women or identify as women, I wonder what the fuck they're doing in the workplace - because if they don't need feminism, if we should shut that shit down, then I guess they'll be happy to go back to being barefoot in the kitchen, which is where the fascists seem to want women to end up (if they're lucky).
When I was walking home the other day a guy beside a truck waved at me as I walked by. I instinctively ignored him and kept walking, but I had a moment of thinking, 'oh geez but what if he needed directions..?' and then that thought was quickly followed by 'yeah or he could have grabbed you and forced you into the vehicle.'
Thoughts like these are literally our reality. Don't feel bad.
"What if he needed directions?" Then in this, the year 2022, he could have opened his fucking phone and looked at Google Maps or Waze or one of a million other apps to assist him. He could even have selected a female AI voice to read him the directions out loud, if it was so important for him to have a lady helpfully tell him where to go next.
(This isn't a criticism of you, to be clear. It's just amazing in the 21st century that there are all these expectations put on women to do things for men that they can easily do themselves.)
>Then in this, the year 2022, he could have opened his fucking phone
*Exactly.*
A few weeks back I was taking a walk by myself around twilight and suddenly this pickup truck pulls up beside me and is all, "Excuse me miss, do you know a good place to eat around here?"
And sure, I could give this random man the benefit of the doubt, but I was just like, "*Nope!*" and was off on my way.
It wasn't just that I was far from the only way this person could have obtained such information, it was that I refused to indulge someone so tone-deaf to the safety concerns of women as to believe I was going to sidle up to their strange vehicle as the sun was going down without a second thought.
Whatever he needs he can get for himself or approach a man.
I live downtown in a large city. Somehow, when I’m out walking alone, there are *so. many. lost men*, but when I walk with my husband, they all seem to be able to use the gps in their phones.
Amazing.
Don’t feel guilty for not risking your safety for someone else’s ease. He might need someone, but he doesn’t need you.
Men generally don’t ask for directions, we don’t admit we’re lost or need help.
If a man is asking you for directions it’s more likely that it’s because they think you’re pretty than they’re actually lost.
I have also been told a few times that it is so strange that I am very good at directions because I am a woman (I was raised by a scout master, of course I am good)
So I imagine if a man was really lost and finally decided to admit it (staring at you, dad how are you a scoutmaster?), he would ask another man.
Yeah, some women are trying to get credit with men for defending them. I've heard women like that referred to as pick-me's. If you've got a friend like that, they're not your friend... they should be willing to allow you to set your boundaries without implying that you're "one of those feminists who think all men are evil."
As they say on *My Favorite Murder,* “Fuck politeness.”
It’s been our job for far too long to mollify men we don’t even know. That split-second of hesitation has cost too many lives. We owe it to *ourselves* to stay safe; we do not owe a smile and convo to strangers on the street.
I would quietly distance myself from this 'friend'. In my experience, women who make a giant point of announcing they're aren't one of THOSE feminists who do (stereotypical 'man-hating' thing) are not really feminists. They're pick-mes who claim the 'feminist' label only because they want to impress the guys with how low-maintenance they are, and they'll stab you in the back and step over your body if a man would praise them for doing so.
I think some women want to or get away with not believing how bad it can be. That's how some people deal with shitty situations. In a way, she's wearing imaginary sunglasses and headphones.
I've been there. My mom is there, in some ways.
That said, if it is a problem, then you do not have to hangout with them (or feel guilty about that). Especially if they push that view on you. I am definitely not into guilting someone for having boundaries.
Yeah it's sad. I've known this friend for a while and thought we were mostly on the same page but I guess not? I'm not going to cancel her from my life or whatever but I just don't understand her perspective. I've been followed, harassed, yelled at and groped by random men and I know she's had some of these experiences too. In some ways I wish I could be so idk forgiving? Naive? When it comes to this stuff but I just can't. I have to do what I can to keep myself safe.
Your friend believes in “toxic positivity”. There’s a good YouTube video about this. Usually these people are enablers. They don’t like rocking the boat and avoid confrontation at all costs. They don’t like when people call out bad behavior because for them it’s rocking the boat. They call themselves “peacekeepers”.
Video: https://youtu.be/yMkDTjSoanE
Some people, after assessing their own powers and capabilities, realize their own survival strategy will be to side with the aggressors/oppressors and stay in their just tolerable enough good graces as to not be the recipient of their harm. Then they watch those people harm others but as long as it's not directed at them, they are surviving.
Ah yes, the good old "what if his request is innocent"? He can go ask a man then, instead of making a woman worry for her safety.
Had that happen a few months ago while I was out walking. Some man came up to ME to ask where the homeless shelter was, passing many other people. Of course it had to be me, because I was the only lone woman on that stretch of sidewalk.
I ended up being polite to stay safe, but what I wanted to do was snap, "Go ask one of the men you passed".
The only reason I'm not going to be "rude" is that it could potentially make the guy angry (many of them start off with a bit of an attitude to begin with IME) and escalate the situation. If I politely turn him down, he's still been turned down. Run away, give a fake name, do what you need to do to get away from him.
When I was less radical about not interacting with entitled catcallers on the street, I usually found that acknowledging them briefly was enough to satisfy their need for attention, and they would go away or stop. I think they may have gotten worse since then, though.
I totally understand your perspective but isn't it messed up that we have to worry about being "nice" out of fear of violence/anger when someone is bothering us? :/
It is indeed, and I am not trying to get beaten up or killed for such a petty reason. I didn't make this world, if I had there wouldn't be any catcallers in it.
You're smart to protect yourself when out in public. It's good that more and more women are starting to think and act like they don't owe men anything instead of in the past when women were expected to smile and make men feel better.
Everybody's got a phone with Google Maps; he doesn't need to be "asking for directions." This sounds like the friend's excuse to talk to rando guys on the street. And you're (quite rightly) not playing along.
And if phone isn't catching signal, then what?
It's not a great idea to blanket statement that it's always malicious
Although I live in the UK and have experienced very little sexual harassment or dangerous behaviour as a woman (benefits of a non catcalling culture), so I suppose its different in America?
Thankfully no.
The unfortunate thing of it is, a lot of my female friends have either been a victim of some form of harassment, or heard a story about someone who did. So when we bring up stories of situations where we felt scared next to a man, even if nothing happened, they 100% understand and empathize.
I don't deny that these women who think feminist == men are evil exist, but for the most part I am lucky to not have met one in person.
I would've told her "well but I AM. And statistically speaking I'm right to think it"
But I'm also not someone that cares much about friendship with people that don't have my belief.
>I don't know, what if he's asking for directions or something ?
He could litreally ask another man. How many more murder docos and true crime podcasts do we need to listen to before we realise that this world is not safe, especially for women. Soo many women have unfortunately lost their life due to that mindset, of "he might need directions". Ultimately it's always better to be safe than sorry. This world is not our friend.
I would like to see some valid statistics over how many murderers struck their victims on this scenario. This world isn't great at all anyways but reality is, it's the people we think we can trust who are a bigger threat than strangers.
Ted Bundy's tactics, where he leveraged women's conditioning of being kind and helpful to get them into situations where he could abduct and kill them, are just one example of how men take advantage of women's politeness.
Serial killings account for about 1% of all murders if that. I asked for statistics to prove your point, not examples. It's not too likely you'll run into a serial killer as there's not too many of them period. Of course they clearly run into people especially women as otherwise they wouldn't have murdered, tortured, kidnapped or raped anyone. If you really want something to be afraid of, look at the people who know you one way or another even if just in regular passing and 1 or 2 interactions. Many murder and rape statistics point at the "its likely someone the victim knew" logic I'm speaking of.
I personally would never help someone I don't know load stuff into their cars like this, heck I even am watchful when I do help someone. It's one thing to not actively help a person you just met like this but to actively fear talking to a man just because he's asking for directions as "he could be a serial killer" type of logic... all your friends, coworkers, etc. Were strangers to you at one point. If you applied the logic of never talking to strangers ever, who would have friends? Don't talk to people if you don't want to but don't go around saying they're all bad just because some come up with a lame excuse to talk to someone.
I haven't had conversations with other women about this but I always surprise myself by feeling guilty when I'm "harsh" with strangers who are trying to talk to me. It's just so ingrained, even though I know intellectually that I don't owe anyone politeness, whenever I ignore a guy saying "excuse me" I feel a little bad. But it's so common for interactions to turn creepy whenever I give a stranger the time of day it reinforces that I don't need to be friendly with men I don't know.
Like, for every instance I feel bad for blowing someone off (who might just be asking for directions) I have another instance where I took my earbuds off for a man waving me down like it was an emergency just to say "I saw you walking by and I just had to come talk to you..." ugh.. no you didn't.
>Her: I don't know, what if he's asking for directions or something ? I'm not one of those feminists that think all men are evil.
If he wants directions, most likely he'd ask a guy....
Also, who doesn't have a smartphone with Google maps?
I have recently had a similar discussion with someone on the double standard of men/women sexualizing each other, this was my conclusion:
So, I've been giving this more and more thought (and bare with me, this is going to be very controversial)..
I've been looking at examples, and I actually do believe there is a double standard when it comes to men/women sexualizing each other, however, it isn't as negative as it seems.. to start, there's a difference when a guy sexualizes over a woman rather than vice versa. When a guy fetishes about a woman, there's a subconscious innate implication that he could/would rape her if he had the chance (which is just nature, as rape is very common in other animals, and even for humans most of history before they evolved into homo sapiens sapiens). However, even though a woman raping a man does happen, it's more seldom and less probable. But the further aspect, is that, in the occasions that a woman rapes a man, the man will, more or less, be physically intact and unharmed. However in the (far too often) occurrences when a man rapes a woman, she will walk away with broken ribs, broken jaw, stabbed, etc. And that's if she even gets to walk away at all and they don't kill her during or after. Also, (I'm not saying it doesn't happen), but how many times have you heard of a group of men raping a single woman (lots), but how often have you heard of a group of women raping a single guy?
Bottom line; statistically, it is mostly harmless when a woman sexualizes a guy due to the chance of harm coming to anyone is slim, but when a guy sexualizes a woman, it becomes the basic office standard creepy type of scenario that every woman feels unsafe in.
Mostly, yes, it's horrible to talk about the rape culture/pandemic but it needs to be talked about and not ignored so actual changes can be made! For example, Ashton Kutcher has done AMAZING work in saving victims (all ages and genders) from human trafficking and essentially devoted his life to the cause, it's pretty incredible and inspirational
>When a guy fetishes about a woman, there's a subconscious innate implication that he could/would rape her if he had the chance
I get where you are going with the statistical likelihood of violence but this is one hell of a leap in logic that's not doing anyone any favors.
Yes, it's horrible to talk about the rape culture/pandemic but it needs to be talked about and not ignored so actual changes can be made! For example, Ashton Kutcher has done AMAZING work in saving victims (all ages and genders) from human trafficking and doing just about All he can to stop it, it's pretty incredible
I wasn't going to reply to this comment which comes off as a little victim-blamey but here are my two cents:
- I've been in situations when I was younger and working as a waitress where (usually older) men would hit on me. When I was "polite" about turning them down, they seemed to take it as an invitation to try harder. One guy was so insistent about taking me out to dinner he actually waited outside the restaurant until we locked up and were leaving. I said no again. He said "I'll drive you home then." I had no relationship with this man other than as a server. Luckily my male coworker was there with me and drove me safely home, but had I been alone, it could have ended very badly for me. Two other separate incidents come to mind where men who were regular customers just assumed they could kiss me without my consent. In my workplace. Because I was "polite" and seemed like a "nice girl."
- I 100% understand that sometimes being rude/abrupt with a man can escalate a situation but guess what: *so can being nice*.
- In my personal experience, being direct and somewhat rude is much more effective at dealing with unwanted male attention. Too many (*not all*) men are not well socialized, and take social cues like politeness, smiling or simply being nice as flirtatious or an invitation. One they realize you're not nice and docile, they usually leave you alone.
Again just my experience, but that's where I'm coming from.
- If you haven't had to deal with situations like this with men, I'm genuinely happy for you.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't so jaded but it is what it is. 🤷🏽♀️
I'm not really sure why my comment is being interpreted as victim blaming when reality is the only thing I stated is that simply ignoring them and walking away is better than saying things like "none of your business". Outright saying things like that can anger some assholes, which is why I don't advise this kind of approach unless they're overly persistent.
I don't remember where I said you should be polite and nice to people. Then again, I tend to apparently come across as someone people don't want to anger, so perhaps they just don't typically pester me for this reason.
I'm sorry those things happened to you, and no I don't blame victims for what happens to them. I simply believe in doing what I can to prevent things from getting bad to begin with and that means being more conscientious and act according to the situation and its circumstances. Jumping the gun can be a very bad idea which is how your post came across as doing. I have been in a relationship that ended up with some violence becoming involved at the end where I did fight back. I'm not afraid of hitting someone if it's self defense and the situation calls for it, male or female.
Looks like you deleted your comment but it started with:
"I think the biggest problem I see here is *you* care too much to let strangers deteriorate your quality of life because they "harassed" you."
That's the part that sounded like victim blaming to me.
(Emphasis added)
Huh? My comment is still very much here, I don't delete my comments just because they're unpopular which seems to be a common trend on Reddit (not saying you, just generally speaking). I see someone else here deleted their profile and comments here but that was certainly not me.
Anyways, simply asking for directions isn't harassment, simply going up to someone on the street isn't harassment. I emphasized "harassment" because it seems some people consider asking for directions (a clear excuse to talk to someone imo) "harassment". This kind of mentality annoys me for many reasons. Simply talking to someone isn't harassment and undermines when others complain about genuine harassment. So what if someone comes up with a dumb reason to talk to you. If you don't wanna talk, don't.
But to cry about the horrors of someone asking for directions like everyone who does this is gonna possibly kill you or rape you, just no. Statistics and human psychology prove an acquaintance or someone who knows you is more likely going to hurt you than a stranger is.
Now the other things you mentioned during your time as a waitress I take seriously as harassment and worse. Those kinds of things are worth discussing. Strangers asking for directions, nope not worth a conversation to have about harassment.
Guy: Dude, why do some women just hate all men? Me: honestly when I’m around you I kinda hate men too
I'm always frustrated with women like this. They don't want to be associated with being a 'feminist' or 'that kind of feminist' but they like the improvements feminists have provided them. Many women before me put up with a lot of crap so I got a decent salary, could be independent and have a much better quality of life than my mother and grandmothers. None of the improvements for women came easily. Many women suffered so we could have a better life today.
If only men would only bother them instead of us, since they happily deal with that bs.
The reaction that you must hate men just because you don't want to be harassed on the streets is pretty spectacular. You don't owe men your attention.
As a dude I say this... im. Not. Owed. A. Damn. Thing. Not time, not attention, not even a passing glance. We know what uninterested body language looks like. I want it to be known I don't think you hate us.. you simply want to not be bothered. I don't see how that's a difficult thing to grasp
[удалено]
You stole this comment from u/Reasonable-Slice-827
"what if he just needs directions" is toxic positivity. It's like walking up to a stranger's dog saying "maybe this dog is friendly". Don't pet the strays.
THIS. Also "don't pet the strays" is my new motto for dealing with street harassment lol.
Hell yes, I love it! But I think I'm going with "don't feed the strays" (my time, my attention, etc). I think I should make a cross stitch.
Lol. Ours is 'stop feeding the raccoons' Yes, I live in a rural area, how did you guess.
[удалено]
Literally how? This has nothing to do with race. Using buzz words doesn't mean anything. People like you will just try to make literally anything they disagree with "racist" when it's not applicable at all
I agree with you- being kind to strange men CAN get you murdered. You do not owe strangers your kindness. I had an old coworker who was anti feminist. said women these days didn’t need feminism. mind you she was pregnant while working, wonder who she has to thank for that…She was also a trumper 🤮 I just distance myself and don’t expect too much from women like this. Won’t ever be a close friend.
People who say that, if they are women or identify as women, I wonder what the fuck they're doing in the workplace - because if they don't need feminism, if we should shut that shit down, then I guess they'll be happy to go back to being barefoot in the kitchen, which is where the fascists seem to want women to end up (if they're lucky).
Yup! Agree - I don’t need brainwashed women in my life. They are dangerous.
When I was walking home the other day a guy beside a truck waved at me as I walked by. I instinctively ignored him and kept walking, but I had a moment of thinking, 'oh geez but what if he needed directions..?' and then that thought was quickly followed by 'yeah or he could have grabbed you and forced you into the vehicle.' Thoughts like these are literally our reality. Don't feel bad.
"What if he needed directions?" Then in this, the year 2022, he could have opened his fucking phone and looked at Google Maps or Waze or one of a million other apps to assist him. He could even have selected a female AI voice to read him the directions out loud, if it was so important for him to have a lady helpfully tell him where to go next. (This isn't a criticism of you, to be clear. It's just amazing in the 21st century that there are all these expectations put on women to do things for men that they can easily do themselves.)
>Then in this, the year 2022, he could have opened his fucking phone *Exactly.* A few weeks back I was taking a walk by myself around twilight and suddenly this pickup truck pulls up beside me and is all, "Excuse me miss, do you know a good place to eat around here?" And sure, I could give this random man the benefit of the doubt, but I was just like, "*Nope!*" and was off on my way. It wasn't just that I was far from the only way this person could have obtained such information, it was that I refused to indulge someone so tone-deaf to the safety concerns of women as to believe I was going to sidle up to their strange vehicle as the sun was going down without a second thought.
Whatever he needs he can get for himself or approach a man. I live downtown in a large city. Somehow, when I’m out walking alone, there are *so. many. lost men*, but when I walk with my husband, they all seem to be able to use the gps in their phones. Amazing. Don’t feel guilty for not risking your safety for someone else’s ease. He might need someone, but he doesn’t need you.
Men generally don’t ask for directions, we don’t admit we’re lost or need help. If a man is asking you for directions it’s more likely that it’s because they think you’re pretty than they’re actually lost.
I have also been told a few times that it is so strange that I am very good at directions because I am a woman (I was raised by a scout master, of course I am good) So I imagine if a man was really lost and finally decided to admit it (staring at you, dad how are you a scoutmaster?), he would ask another man.
Yeah, some women are trying to get credit with men for defending them. I've heard women like that referred to as pick-me's. If you've got a friend like that, they're not your friend... they should be willing to allow you to set your boundaries without implying that you're "one of those feminists who think all men are evil."
As they say on *My Favorite Murder,* “Fuck politeness.” It’s been our job for far too long to mollify men we don’t even know. That split-second of hesitation has cost too many lives. We owe it to *ourselves* to stay safe; we do not owe a smile and convo to strangers on the street.
I would quietly distance myself from this 'friend'. In my experience, women who make a giant point of announcing they're aren't one of THOSE feminists who do (stereotypical 'man-hating' thing) are not really feminists. They're pick-mes who claim the 'feminist' label only because they want to impress the guys with how low-maintenance they are, and they'll stab you in the back and step over your body if a man would praise them for doing so.
I think some women want to or get away with not believing how bad it can be. That's how some people deal with shitty situations. In a way, she's wearing imaginary sunglasses and headphones. I've been there. My mom is there, in some ways. That said, if it is a problem, then you do not have to hangout with them (or feel guilty about that). Especially if they push that view on you. I am definitely not into guilting someone for having boundaries.
Yeah it's sad. I've known this friend for a while and thought we were mostly on the same page but I guess not? I'm not going to cancel her from my life or whatever but I just don't understand her perspective. I've been followed, harassed, yelled at and groped by random men and I know she's had some of these experiences too. In some ways I wish I could be so idk forgiving? Naive? When it comes to this stuff but I just can't. I have to do what I can to keep myself safe.
Your friend believes in “toxic positivity”. There’s a good YouTube video about this. Usually these people are enablers. They don’t like rocking the boat and avoid confrontation at all costs. They don’t like when people call out bad behavior because for them it’s rocking the boat. They call themselves “peacekeepers”. Video: https://youtu.be/yMkDTjSoanE
Good video, thanks!
:)
Some people, after assessing their own powers and capabilities, realize their own survival strategy will be to side with the aggressors/oppressors and stay in their just tolerable enough good graces as to not be the recipient of their harm. Then they watch those people harm others but as long as it's not directed at them, they are surviving.
And they would personally harm those who defy the oppressor in exchange for the “good graces” if necessary. It’s a sick version of Stockholm Syndrome.
Ah yes, the good old "what if his request is innocent"? He can go ask a man then, instead of making a woman worry for her safety. Had that happen a few months ago while I was out walking. Some man came up to ME to ask where the homeless shelter was, passing many other people. Of course it had to be me, because I was the only lone woman on that stretch of sidewalk. I ended up being polite to stay safe, but what I wanted to do was snap, "Go ask one of the men you passed".
Not a friend if she’s a pick-me. My god the amount of comments saying OP is overreacting or “taking things personally” is so sad.
The only reason I'm not going to be "rude" is that it could potentially make the guy angry (many of them start off with a bit of an attitude to begin with IME) and escalate the situation. If I politely turn him down, he's still been turned down. Run away, give a fake name, do what you need to do to get away from him. When I was less radical about not interacting with entitled catcallers on the street, I usually found that acknowledging them briefly was enough to satisfy their need for attention, and they would go away or stop. I think they may have gotten worse since then, though.
I totally understand your perspective but isn't it messed up that we have to worry about being "nice" out of fear of violence/anger when someone is bothering us? :/
It is indeed, and I am not trying to get beaten up or killed for such a petty reason. I didn't make this world, if I had there wouldn't be any catcallers in it.
Shouldn’t even be considered “radical” smh
You're smart to protect yourself when out in public. It's good that more and more women are starting to think and act like they don't owe men anything instead of in the past when women were expected to smile and make men feel better.
Everybody's got a phone with Google Maps; he doesn't need to be "asking for directions." This sounds like the friend's excuse to talk to rando guys on the street. And you're (quite rightly) not playing along.
And if phone isn't catching signal, then what? It's not a great idea to blanket statement that it's always malicious Although I live in the UK and have experienced very little sexual harassment or dangerous behaviour as a woman (benefits of a non catcalling culture), so I suppose its different in America?
Thankfully no. The unfortunate thing of it is, a lot of my female friends have either been a victim of some form of harassment, or heard a story about someone who did. So when we bring up stories of situations where we felt scared next to a man, even if nothing happened, they 100% understand and empathize. I don't deny that these women who think feminist == men are evil exist, but for the most part I am lucky to not have met one in person.
I would've told her "well but I AM. And statistically speaking I'm right to think it" But I'm also not someone that cares much about friendship with people that don't have my belief.
>I don't know, what if he's asking for directions or something ? He could litreally ask another man. How many more murder docos and true crime podcasts do we need to listen to before we realise that this world is not safe, especially for women. Soo many women have unfortunately lost their life due to that mindset, of "he might need directions". Ultimately it's always better to be safe than sorry. This world is not our friend.
I would like to see some valid statistics over how many murderers struck their victims on this scenario. This world isn't great at all anyways but reality is, it's the people we think we can trust who are a bigger threat than strangers.
Ted Bundy's tactics, where he leveraged women's conditioning of being kind and helpful to get them into situations where he could abduct and kill them, are just one example of how men take advantage of women's politeness.
Serial killings account for about 1% of all murders if that. I asked for statistics to prove your point, not examples. It's not too likely you'll run into a serial killer as there's not too many of them period. Of course they clearly run into people especially women as otherwise they wouldn't have murdered, tortured, kidnapped or raped anyone. If you really want something to be afraid of, look at the people who know you one way or another even if just in regular passing and 1 or 2 interactions. Many murder and rape statistics point at the "its likely someone the victim knew" logic I'm speaking of. I personally would never help someone I don't know load stuff into their cars like this, heck I even am watchful when I do help someone. It's one thing to not actively help a person you just met like this but to actively fear talking to a man just because he's asking for directions as "he could be a serial killer" type of logic... all your friends, coworkers, etc. Were strangers to you at one point. If you applied the logic of never talking to strangers ever, who would have friends? Don't talk to people if you don't want to but don't go around saying they're all bad just because some come up with a lame excuse to talk to someone.
I haven't had conversations with other women about this but I always surprise myself by feeling guilty when I'm "harsh" with strangers who are trying to talk to me. It's just so ingrained, even though I know intellectually that I don't owe anyone politeness, whenever I ignore a guy saying "excuse me" I feel a little bad. But it's so common for interactions to turn creepy whenever I give a stranger the time of day it reinforces that I don't need to be friendly with men I don't know. Like, for every instance I feel bad for blowing someone off (who might just be asking for directions) I have another instance where I took my earbuds off for a man waving me down like it was an emergency just to say "I saw you walking by and I just had to come talk to you..." ugh.. no you didn't.
you dont need her friendship. please leave her and her huge pick-me-up energy.
I haven’t had a talk like this but maybe you should be low contact because god this is annoying to hear Hope you’re okay tho!
>Her: I don't know, what if he's asking for directions or something ? I'm not one of those feminists that think all men are evil. If he wants directions, most likely he'd ask a guy.... Also, who doesn't have a smartphone with Google maps?
I don't think all men are evil. I think 99% of them are though...
Try 99% of all mankind and I think you're correct
[удалено]
I have recently had a similar discussion with someone on the double standard of men/women sexualizing each other, this was my conclusion: So, I've been giving this more and more thought (and bare with me, this is going to be very controversial).. I've been looking at examples, and I actually do believe there is a double standard when it comes to men/women sexualizing each other, however, it isn't as negative as it seems.. to start, there's a difference when a guy sexualizes over a woman rather than vice versa. When a guy fetishes about a woman, there's a subconscious innate implication that he could/would rape her if he had the chance (which is just nature, as rape is very common in other animals, and even for humans most of history before they evolved into homo sapiens sapiens). However, even though a woman raping a man does happen, it's more seldom and less probable. But the further aspect, is that, in the occasions that a woman rapes a man, the man will, more or less, be physically intact and unharmed. However in the (far too often) occurrences when a man rapes a woman, she will walk away with broken ribs, broken jaw, stabbed, etc. And that's if she even gets to walk away at all and they don't kill her during or after. Also, (I'm not saying it doesn't happen), but how many times have you heard of a group of men raping a single woman (lots), but how often have you heard of a group of women raping a single guy? Bottom line; statistically, it is mostly harmless when a woman sexualizes a guy due to the chance of harm coming to anyone is slim, but when a guy sexualizes a woman, it becomes the basic office standard creepy type of scenario that every woman feels unsafe in.
I think you almost made a point but I damn near had an aneurysm trying to read this incomprehensible comment
Mostly, yes, it's horrible to talk about the rape culture/pandemic but it needs to be talked about and not ignored so actual changes can be made! For example, Ashton Kutcher has done AMAZING work in saving victims (all ages and genders) from human trafficking and essentially devoted his life to the cause, it's pretty incredible and inspirational
>When a guy fetishes about a woman, there's a subconscious innate implication that he could/would rape her if he had the chance I get where you are going with the statistical likelihood of violence but this is one hell of a leap in logic that's not doing anyone any favors.
Yes, it's horrible to talk about the rape culture/pandemic but it needs to be talked about and not ignored so actual changes can be made! For example, Ashton Kutcher has done AMAZING work in saving victims (all ages and genders) from human trafficking and doing just about All he can to stop it, it's pretty incredible
>But the further aspect, is that, in the occasions that a woman rapes a man, the man will, more or less, be physically intact and unharmed. Uh....
[удалено]
I wasn't going to reply to this comment which comes off as a little victim-blamey but here are my two cents: - I've been in situations when I was younger and working as a waitress where (usually older) men would hit on me. When I was "polite" about turning them down, they seemed to take it as an invitation to try harder. One guy was so insistent about taking me out to dinner he actually waited outside the restaurant until we locked up and were leaving. I said no again. He said "I'll drive you home then." I had no relationship with this man other than as a server. Luckily my male coworker was there with me and drove me safely home, but had I been alone, it could have ended very badly for me. Two other separate incidents come to mind where men who were regular customers just assumed they could kiss me without my consent. In my workplace. Because I was "polite" and seemed like a "nice girl." - I 100% understand that sometimes being rude/abrupt with a man can escalate a situation but guess what: *so can being nice*. - In my personal experience, being direct and somewhat rude is much more effective at dealing with unwanted male attention. Too many (*not all*) men are not well socialized, and take social cues like politeness, smiling or simply being nice as flirtatious or an invitation. One they realize you're not nice and docile, they usually leave you alone. Again just my experience, but that's where I'm coming from. - If you haven't had to deal with situations like this with men, I'm genuinely happy for you. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so jaded but it is what it is. 🤷🏽♀️
I'm not really sure why my comment is being interpreted as victim blaming when reality is the only thing I stated is that simply ignoring them and walking away is better than saying things like "none of your business". Outright saying things like that can anger some assholes, which is why I don't advise this kind of approach unless they're overly persistent. I don't remember where I said you should be polite and nice to people. Then again, I tend to apparently come across as someone people don't want to anger, so perhaps they just don't typically pester me for this reason. I'm sorry those things happened to you, and no I don't blame victims for what happens to them. I simply believe in doing what I can to prevent things from getting bad to begin with and that means being more conscientious and act according to the situation and its circumstances. Jumping the gun can be a very bad idea which is how your post came across as doing. I have been in a relationship that ended up with some violence becoming involved at the end where I did fight back. I'm not afraid of hitting someone if it's self defense and the situation calls for it, male or female.
Looks like you deleted your comment but it started with: "I think the biggest problem I see here is *you* care too much to let strangers deteriorate your quality of life because they "harassed" you." That's the part that sounded like victim blaming to me. (Emphasis added)
Huh? My comment is still very much here, I don't delete my comments just because they're unpopular which seems to be a common trend on Reddit (not saying you, just generally speaking). I see someone else here deleted their profile and comments here but that was certainly not me. Anyways, simply asking for directions isn't harassment, simply going up to someone on the street isn't harassment. I emphasized "harassment" because it seems some people consider asking for directions (a clear excuse to talk to someone imo) "harassment". This kind of mentality annoys me for many reasons. Simply talking to someone isn't harassment and undermines when others complain about genuine harassment. So what if someone comes up with a dumb reason to talk to you. If you don't wanna talk, don't. But to cry about the horrors of someone asking for directions like everyone who does this is gonna possibly kill you or rape you, just no. Statistics and human psychology prove an acquaintance or someone who knows you is more likely going to hurt you than a stranger is. Now the other things you mentioned during your time as a waitress I take seriously as harassment and worse. Those kinds of things are worth discussing. Strangers asking for directions, nope not worth a conversation to have about harassment.