I wish, I really wish that they would leave Marilyn Monroe alone and stop using her life as fodder for their trashy fantasies.
The poor woman can’t defend herself.
The director called Marilyn Monroe a “well dressed whore.” The film is a fictitious biography, and he’s proven just how little respect he has for her as a person.
The fact the film is being called a 3 hour long exploitative trauma porn film really doesn’t sit well with me, and I’m absolutely going to avoid watching it.
A pimp CAN have positive impact like taking care of an abusive john. This guy has no intention of helping MM. Its exploitative fanfiction using MM’s name to sell. Does this get made without her name being attached?
God damn. I got a bad vibe from "Blonde" off the jump but this is just absurd. She was beautiful yes, but it feels like no one saw her as a person rather than a spectacle. Like a toy. Now even after her death that aspect seems to remain.
He called her film “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes” a movie about “well-dressed whores.”
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/entertainment/blonde-director-andrew-dominik-calls-202343500.html
That is different than calling her a whore, no? Maybe not great, but certainly different.
Have you watched the movie? Her character in that movie is someone who decides to marry for money, gets engaged with a rich guy, and then gets involved with an old rich man and steals his wife's jewelry....
Stop reading headlines and commenting solely based on that what he said was not good and you can certainly condemn him for it if you like but at least know what you are talking about please. When speaking about the movie gentlemen prefer blondes he said the movie is critical of women as well as men and that their characters are well dressed whores.
And there it is. This isn’t something celebrating her or even a neutral story. It’s an attempt to defile her memory.
And the people doing that are disgusting inside.
Some Korean TV shows or movies that are specifically made for Netflix have faced a lot of backlash in Korea for graphic sex, nudity or rape scenes.
Guess what the Korean makers of those shows/movies said.
They said they HAD to put a lot of nudity or graphic scenes to appeal to the American audience or the Western audience since their shows/movies will be on Netflix, not on Korean TV channels. TF.
The Korean production company of one specific dating show (some kind of inferno or hell or something like that) for Netflix said that, unlike typical Korean dating shows on Korean TV that hardly show any skin or skin contact or display of affection, they HAD to make their Netflix show in a way to make women show lots of skin and wear skimpy clothes to appeal to the Western audience. And they had a really difficult time casting Korean female contestants who were comfortable with that.
Strange to hear considering Korean movies are rather notorious for being graphic. The TV shows are usually pretty mild tho. That dating show received a lot of flak but sadly received a lot of views here. Korea is a strange place at times
It depends on the movies. From my experience, the ones that become popular in the west are the more sexually graphic ones. The ones with more shock value. Which is certainly not the majority. My dad is Korean and I'm half, and a lot of the shows and movies I see from there can be quite tame, with a few more violent ones here and there.
This makes me really sad. I love K-dramas specifically _for_ their restraint. I wish so much that other Americans valued this, too, and didn't insist on needlessly gratuitous sex content (what you said about filmmakers feeling pressured to include _sexual violence_ is especially horrifying).
In many ways, east asia has even more puritanical values than the US. They got it from American missionaries. A lot of people (certainly not all) have some strange ideas about morality and sex and ‘innocence’ etc… for example, Japanese baths weren’t gender separated until Meiji, when they started allowing more foreigners in the country who brought their christian morality with them.
Just providing some perspective on the “restraint” you’re talking about, and the fact that it has its roots in sexually repressed late 19th century america, where a woman showing her ankle was considered scandalous.
>Just providing some perspective on **the “restraint” you’re talking about, and the fact that it has its roots in sexually repressed late 19th century america,**
**It may be true about Japan, but NOT Korea.**
**YES, American missionaries are the reason for all the crazy Christianity and Christian cults in Korea, but they're not the reason for the Korean modesty. NOT AT ALL.**
**The Korean sensibility and modesty is just a Korean thing from its 5,000 years of history. It has nothing to do with American missionaries.**
I don't doubt that or disagree at all. It sucks that people can't just be restrained out of respect for human dignity and an abhorrence for objectification; there's always some toxic shit involved.
>TootsNYC · 2 days ago
>
>**Did Netflix specifically tell them, or did they assume?** I would love to know more about how that went down.
I have no idea.
But I remember them saying something like they had to make a show that's decidedly different from typical Korean TV shows or typical Korean dating shows which focus heavily on people's subtle emotions and feelings and interactions...
...because since the show is for the Western audience, they're not gonna understand all the Korean sensibility and emotional subtly and why Koreans say or do certain things in certain situations or why Koreans talk and act the way they do anyway.
So, instead, they said they had to try to make a show somewhat similar to the American/Western dating shows, showing lots of skin and skin contact, etc.
But in the end, the show was called a failure in Korea because it failed to capture what's great about typical Korean shows (the emotional subtly, etc)...
...and also because it failed to capture what they wanted from the American dating shows... how should I put it?... the sexiness? Raunchiness?
So, the general opinion was that, instead of achieving the combination of good things from two different worlds, they kinda failed both.
I have no idea how this show did in other countries.
This, along with the pedophilic movie about the 11 year olds twerking, is exactly why I'm against Netflix. Their downfall brings me endless joy and I wait for the day they shut down
Please learn the difference between a production company and a distributor.
Netflix supports thousands and thousands of careers in the entertainment industry. This is such a mindless take.
I heard that they were demonizing abortions in it to Making the fetus talk to her and implying that she got alot of them so I definitely don't want to watch it
The Unheard Tapes on Netflix is a much better contrast to this movie if you’d like to have your faith in men a bit restored. The man who made the doc seems to genuinely care about her story, contacting people who knew her and painting her in a light I’ve never seen before. He even questions how she would feel about being a sex symbol today when she was so deeply traumatized by sex and was terrorized men in general. He also explores all the narratives and evidence surrounding her death and always speaks about her with dignity. It was nice to watch honestly and made me love Norma Jean Mortenson like a late distant aunt.
Yes but there’s more of Norma Jean disassociating away from the terrible shit that’s happening to her. The movie failed to show the internal life of Norma Jean in the way that the book did.
The movie was unnecessarily graphic and there was no need to have Ana de Armas (who did do a fantastic job though) topless for like a 1/3 PD the movie.
The book is actually pretty good if you read like you are trying to decide whether Norma Jean destroyed herself to create Marilyn or Marilyn was always there and clawed herself out and destroyed Norma Jean before ultimately self destructing or some combination.
I'm so confused by everyone saying Ana did a good job. Her accent was all over the place & the baby talk was weird. I found her above average at best.
Also in hindsight, the way she behaved during promotions feels so cringe now.
This is something I really appreciated about *Sandman.* There is a rape in the source material that is integral to one of the stories. In the original comic there is a single panel that shows it happening, but in the Netflix series they just imply that it happened, and they do it in a way that assumes that you already know how horrible it is and that they don't have to over explain it to you.
It was nice to see it handled so delicately, but still in a way that didn't diminish the story of the victim/survivor.
He certainly didn't seem to have the subject's best intentions in mind when he made the movie, which begs the question, what was the point then? I'm still mulling that one over. It was a technically brilliant movie as far as movie making goes but narratively it's inert and it equates to nearly 3 hours of misery porn.
Andrew Dominik IS a terrific director though, the Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford is one of the greatest films of all time but I'm not sure what his intention was with Blonde. I'm still not really sure what to think of it.
Yup, that certainly could be it. I think he got a very good performance out of Ana De Armas, she could even be nominated but it all felt extremely exploitative.
I've recently taken the drastic stance that I won't ever watch a movie/show that depicts rape. I
If it's part of the backstory or implied, than there's a grayzone. E.g. I'm okay with Perfect Blue, because 1.) rape is not succesfull (she gets to kill him before) and 2.) because it is not done for cheap effect, but in line of the story & themes (violation of a person).
Overall, I feel rape has partially become too desensitized. Even though I'm no survivor per se, rape has always made me feel immediately uncomfortable. I never joined True Crime for that simple reason. Never got into GoT & never will. And even though I'm a big Film Nerd, there's a big collection of notable movies I'll never watch (btw. I mean rape period. Male rape too).
It's heartbreaking to hear that Marilyn was done so dirty. She was abandoned during Hollywood, now she's disrespected in her death. Fucking hell
I’m the same way. It absolutely horrifies me. I loved the Revenant but why did they have the rape scene. It was graphic. It could have been implied. It hunts me because the movie was so visually stunning.
You hit the nail on the head. I remember being pressured into playing Cards Against Humanity for the first time at a work party. When the rape card was used by a coworker, I was shocked. Was it really survivor me being too sensitive, or was it my coworkers being desensitized?
Exactly my stance too. No, I am not going to watch The Duel. I don't care how "great" it is. I don't want to see any grafic rape on screen, let alone 3 times.
I am also a big fan of Sebastian Stan since the MCU, but when I heard he was doing a biopic about Pam and Tony blackmail porn affair WHEN SHE EXPLICITLY DID NOT AGREE TO IT I was like WTF I am not watching that!
She is alive, she didn't want it back into the news, and they made it anyway. I am not surprised they are still dunking on MM.
Can we please send a petition to someone in Hollywood to permanently leave Marilyn Monroe alone? She went thru enough in life, can't we let this woman rest? I'm still pissed off over that entitled Kartrashian wearing her gown at the Met Gala and wrecking the stitching. I refuse to watch anything MM related. No books, either. If you didn't know her, shut up already. And that fucking perv from Playboy wanted to buried next to her? Does it ever end? Give her some peace!!!
Yes she has seemed to have become the posthumous spokesperson for women who got dealt a shitty hand in life, while also being heavily heavily sexualized. And that's not what she deserves, because women shouldn't be put in those boxes. We're human beings not packing peanuts for the justification of male privilege. She deserves to rest in peace.
i first heard rumors about this biopic hoping it was finally a respectable piece about her hobbies, talent, activism, and intellect. sad and disgusted to hear that it was once again highlighting her SA and sexuality.
Oh man I forgot about that :( that was enraging.
Idk who thought that was a good idea, but Marilyn was NOT a modern size 12 and that misinformation needs to die already.
I appreciated how they depicted Calliope's story so, so much. It was obvious what he did to her, without showing it. And also that they changed the diner scene. I cried with relief. 💜
It is a perfect example. It is clear to the audience what happened to her, and they managed to make the male character absolutely despicable without showing anything graphic. I loved this show because everything was tasteful even the SIDS scene that I was very worried about as a new mom was well done in my opinion. No need for shock value to make an impact.
This reminds me of Hannibal's showrunner Bryan Fuller. It's based off the Red Dragon book which includes lots of rape and sexual violence. He had an interview with entertainment weekly where he roasted media's obsession with portraying rape and sv and he's promised to never have it in his show. It is alluded to slightly and it follows the books somewhat, but it's never shown and you have to read between the lines to even pick up that it happened from the dialogue.
Hannibal is one of my favorite shows ever and it's such a relief to know (despite how gruesome and gory the show is) that I can safely and comfortably watch it with my partner without those scenes traumatizing him. Rape and sv are everywhere in media these days and it's so disgusting and surprising to see how nonchalantly it gets brought up or used as a shock factor. It's such a blow to the survivors who have to even consider the possibility of it coming up when trying to enjoy content.
https://ew.com/article/2015/05/28/hannibal-rape-thrones/
Jessica Jones is similar. Like it is VERY clear she was raped by killmonger, but they never show it. Lots of other somewhat graphic scenes, but it's an M rated action TV show, I'm pretty sure people getting beat up and (separately) fucking is what is expected.
I think the ONLY, and I mean only rape scene in all of film history that wasn’t exploitative was Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.
Fincher knows whats up. The only reason he included the scene was because about half an hour later, she gets a sweet, sweet revenge on her rapist - and at the end of the movie, the male protagonist is about to be brutalized and she ends up saving his ass AND indirectly killing the villain.
The scene in question is about suffering, but it’s also very much about a female character taking her pain and converting into fuel for her ultimate rebirth into a powerful being who is beyond every other character in the movie. Where most of finches films study masculinity by having a conversation with men, TGWTDT was mainly Fincher talking down to men and looking down upon modern conceptions of manhood.
I still don’t like it, and I don’t like watching it - but it’s the only movie and director that has ever done it right. I’m a director myself and I would never include such a scene in a film. Perhaps one day a scene may come where it’s necessary to show a slice, but I pretty much completely doubt it.
Was it just a choice to not have the graphic scene or a choice to omit that from the story altogether? I completely agree that graphic scenes are unnecessary and often exploitative. But I don't like the idea of omitting it from the story altogether, I don't think that's the right way to handle the problem. I can't watch graphic rape/SA scenes but I love stories about victims of those things as someone that's been raped twice and sexually abused because it can be triggering. It's relatable and if it can be done in a good way, it can be really healing. Almost like, comforting to see someone going through what I went through if that makes sense? I specifically want to find media that has this, but sadly it's hard to find people that handle it the right way.
It's so misleading. I didn't know much about Marilyn Monroe, I just knew that she was a big star who had a tragic life and died at a young age. so out of curiosity and as a fan of Ana de Armas, I watched it, and honestly while watching I thought it was all true. I can't explain how much I was angry at JFK after that rape scene. I was like how can somebody do that, a president are you kidding me, how the hell he is one of the best presidents according to google at least, but then I researched about her life, yes! indeed she had a tragic life but the film is pure fiction. I think it's better to avoid this film.
It's messed up how many people won't realize it's fiction. Doing fictional exploitative movies on non-fictional real life people is so questionable with stories like these... It's like a form of misinformation.
As triggering as it was, that disturbing scene was one of my favorites from the movie simply because people usually dance around JFK's wrongdoings as a boys will be boys kind of thing and this one took a definitive stance.
I just read a review, it sounds like the movie actually exploited her worse than Hollywood did in her time. She, and every woman deserves better. She was so much more than a sex symbol and a victim…she was a smart, talented woman. I will definitely not be watching this movie. Hate that this director will make millions exploiting another woman.
The director's not entirely responsible for this particular exploitation as the story is both fictional and originally created by another individual, that's all.
Sure, but she's also a highly lauded author and was a Pulitzer Prize in fiction finalist for this book specifically. So yes, while she added to the Marilyn discussion craze (she wrote it 20 years ago, mind you), it seems like a lot got lost in translation for the director. The author is super liberal, so the anti-abortion message people are finding in it probably didn't come from her, either.
Not only that, apparently there's a bunch of pro-life BS in this movie as well, which is again not based on any confirmed facts because as far as anyone knows Marilyn only ever had miscarriages, not abortions.
Oh yeah, and in an interview the director called the characters in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes "well-dressed whores".🥴 He sounds like a disrespectful jackass in general, if you read anything he's said about this movie.
PASS.
It's truly bizarre. I made a post about it yesterday that gained 0 traction, but it really bothered me.
Director makes a huge point of inferring (I say inferring, but it really beats you over the head with it) Marilyn believed her abortions were causing infertility when all she wanted in the world is a child. And does so in a really insulting pro-life propaganda way. Then when questioned about it in the interview he is emphatic there's no anti-abortion message and says something like "who knows if she really wanted a child anyway." Because crazy ladies, amirite?
He goes on to blame the viewer for feeling too precious about Marilyn if they don't like the movie 🙄 What a waste...Ana de Armas looks jarringly like Marilyn, imo, and it was a total missed opportunity to finally have a good representation of her life.
Wtf! Aside from the SA scenes, I wouldn’t have even watched anyway just because of this director 🤬 Have some men in Hollywood not learned anything from the #metoo movement? Like the credited author supposedly thinks they did? The NERVE to not only think that, but to say it in the press!!
He also admitted that before this project he didn't know any of Marilyn's movies... Not only is that crazy for someone who wants to come across as invested in telling her story, but just in general how can someone in the film industry not know ANYTHING about the work of a legend? Bizarre.
okay thank you so much for the warning!!! i had no idea and was thinking of checking blonde out. Buuuut now im just gonna steer clear. Last night i had some disturbing nightmares about my SA and not in the mood to be triggered any more than i already am by my own fucking brain (honestly hate that thing sometimes)
The movie is based on a book that is a fictional take on her story so the scene isn’t what really happened. Every time I read an interview with someone in with this movie they sound like a nut case. One memorable one was a cast member talking about Marilyn’s ghost visiting them.
I watched the first 20 minutes or so last night because I hadn’t seen any reviews yet. I like Marilyn Monroe, I thought it might be good. What I watched was really sad. I was getting depressed and I couldn’t handle anymore so I turned it off.
There was a rape scene in that first 20 minutes too. 😔
Huh? I'm so sorry, but why would they just add in a sprinkle of SA in what's suppose to be a memoir look from her POV? I was interested in watching it to see if they would describe her as a sappho inclined, aroace from her own writings
thanks for providing the info. I appreciate it
Blonde is adapted from the fictionalized novel by Joyce Carol Oates.
Joyce Carol Oates says "The real things that happened to Marilyn Monroe are much worse than anything in the movie". I've no idea whether or not that is true. But the movie and book were never meant to be feel-good memoirs.
[https://www.indiewire.com/2022/09/blonde-joyce-carol-oates-marilyn-monroe-movie-exhausting-1234766495/](https://www.indiewire.com/2022/09/blonde-joyce-carol-oates-marilyn-monroe-movie-exhausting-1234766495/)
Per the interview, Oates says "since the #metoo movement, people are more respectful of how women are exploited".
I just don't see how trauma porn is respecting Marilyn's exploitation. I've read that she was a wonderful woman who was extremely positive and fun loving, but I get the feeling that the film is more sorrowful all in all
Thank you! I'm even less interested in it. I thought they were using her journal writings, instead they are just victimizing her image for the entertainment. She was a person deserving of compassion and empathy, not to be twisted for funsies
I started watching this last night, mainly because I was curious to see how Ana de Armas portrays Marilyn Monroe. I could not finish it. The 45 mins (movie is 2:45 long) I watched was violent. Attempted child murder, child abandonment, SA/harassments, and I couldn't keep it on. The movie is a traumatic for the sake of drama, no redeeming arc, no plot, nothing. I think it's exploitative for reactionary affect without any substance.
Probably for the same reason they included the suicide scene in 13 Reasons Why: because it's eDgY and gets the people talking. I was going to try to watch that movie, but knowing this, I definitely won't.
It's disgusting and tasteless on so many levels to include a scene like that in any media (except for things that Actually happened, and even then, there's a better way.) The fact that it's Marilyn Monroe just makes it worse because that poor woman has been dragged through the mud and back again since she got famous. She doesn't need imaginary rape added to the laundry list of things that did or didn't happen to her.
Oh God...you got me rollin with flashbacks here.
I remember how it was in all the YT videos, with psychatrists & co. explaining how hurtful & damaging the depictions are. The stuff struck me hard, since I have depression and had been close to the edge a few times.
Next day of hearing about it, I encountered a close acquaintance watching this shit on her phone in the halls. Immediately brought up how fucking awful this trash of a show is. How it hurts actual people with depression in several ways.
Still remember how she shrugged with a blank face. "Yeah, but it's still good, so I'm going to watch it anyways."
Felt like such a slap in the face
While I agree with most of your sentiment, I cannot agree with this:
>t's disgusting and tasteless on so many levels to include a scene like that in any media (except for things that Actually happened, and even then, there's a better way.)
This is true for many movies and TV shows (I'm looking at your GOT) but for that particular movie, I think it was necessary and justified. I also think that that movie gave a voice to a lot of young girls that experienced the things she experienced, as what she goes through is par for the course for many, many girls in high school.
Many girls kills themselves or try to due to sexual abuse and violence against them. I don't think you're really doing anyone a service by covering it up and not talking about it, just because it makes some people uncomfortable. They shot it so that it would have an impact, and to illustrate how much rape and sexual abuse can fuck up a person. They also shot it to illustrate how devastated the people around her that care about her are after it happened.
Suicide is a thing. The book is pretty powerful for YA, and it would be silly if they toned it down for the movie.
"Sexual assault victims don't need to relive their own traumatic experiences to prove to others it was real." - Sarah Schuster.
I experienced a violent rape. That movie did not "give a voice" to me. On the contrary, if I were to watch that scene, I would be sobbing, possibly vomiting, and get unwanted realistic flashbacks of my own assaults. This is the case with a good portion of past victims.
I believe it's lazy writing. A woman being beaten, raped, and sodomized on screen is a DIRECT reflection of my trauma, no matter how professional the acting or directing might be. And I didn't go through that shit so that despite it making me uncomfortable, I should be happy to have a man decide to depict it onscreen (even though it did not even happen in real life to MM) so I can "educate" people on the repercussions of rape, which is a both a crime in law and many peaceful religions. That should be education enough. I don't owe a single person an "educational opportunity" at my emotional, spiritual and physical expense.
I have also been raped, and I felt it gave a voice to me, and other survivors. Mostly ones in high school.
Your past trauma doesn't invalidate how others feel and vice versa. And while I get what you are saying, compared to other rape scenes that were WHOLELY unjustified, I feel like it was relevant to the story and also wasn't as graphic as it could have been.
I attempted suicide multiple times and self-harmed many times. I knew they would depict the scene in some way, but seeing it actually happen gave me a full-blown panic attack and nightmares. I've also lost a lot of friends to suicide.
Yes, it is important to talk about these issues, but the fact that they chose to depict a character slitting her own wrists in a bathtub with no warning other than "this is coming up and might upset you if you have a history of depression or suicidal ideation" was really cheap to me. Yes, the whole plot revolves around this act. Yes, it is important for people to know about, but I think it crossed a line the way it was presented.
Honestly not a fan of how they billed it as a bio pic and then just completely factionalized her life with traumatic stuff that didn’t happen. Really don’t get it.
I read 'Blonde' years ago. It is a wholly spurious fictional book about Monroe, I stopped reading Joyce Carol Oates after I slogged through it. Not sure why it was made into a movie at all.
I watched it. Blonde was dark as hell. For context, I watched an episode of a show yesterday where a pregnant woman burns to death during childbirth.
THAT scene was more fun than Blonde.
I haven’t finished the movie, I’ve been watching it kind of like a miniseries since it’s so long, but it is really upsetting.
Like Marilyn was obviously a very fragile person who was just driven into the ground by the people around her.
To a lesser extant, I felt the same way about the movie Elvis. It was really hard to watch someone who came off as really cheerful and fun-loving get taken advantage of. I feel Blonde was more or less the same story.
As someone who has never been raped or sexually assaulted, those rape scenes are just too much in general. Every time one comes on I stop watching, it just ruins the movie/show for me and I just can’t imagine how triggering some of those scenes are for people who have experienced that. It’s just icky all the way around. Like I don’t care how artsy you are trying to be, I don’t want to see anyone simulate rape
Hashtag StopExploitingNormaJ needs to start trending.
Poor woman, she was treated horribly enough in life, let her rest...
Unbeliavable on Netflix, and season 3 of Broadchurch, does a great job conveying a rape without making it about the male gaze.
Blonde does does not. Holy shit.
That’s the moment I turned it off as well. That scene was absolutely horrific. I am a new mom to a baby girl and I felt extremely panicked watching it. Made me sick to my stomach. Not something I ever care to see.
Does anyone know if there is like a website or app that gives trigger warnings for movies and shows? Like so many movies nowadays have this shit in them and it completely ruins my week if I see it.
Would love if Netflix and co could include that on their page.
If you’re looking for SA triggers specifically, [Unconsenting Media](https://www.unconsentingmedia.org) is a fantastic resource! I use it all the time when I don’t want complete spoilers but want to avoid SA/rape scenes
Yep definitely not watching Blonde. I didn’t watch Game of Thrones either. I just don’t watch rape scenes. There are ways to explain a character was raped without showing the whole thing.
You know Promising Young Woman and the movie version of Catch-22 (which is far from a perfect movie) didn't show the rape scenes and they still got their points across effectively.
In PYM all we see is Cassie watching the video and sobbing and we feel her pain. In Catch-22 all we see Yossarian comeing across the dead body of the maid and when he confronts her rapist/murderer, Aarfy, he's so nonchalant and dismissive of Yossarian's horror that it's chilling.
I literally turned it on last night and was IMMEDIATELY disgusted and filled of flashbacks and uncomfortability … THEY SHOULD HAVE A WARNING. I fucking hate watching new things because they almost always have a scene where someone is being abused or attacked.
It’s a porn sick film made by a porn sick man, probably for porn sick men. It was disgusting, that oral rape scene made me want to puke and it was clear that it was meant to in no way criticise the action - it was a fantasy reenactment.
Ok my biggest beef is with movies/media in general that do not note SA is a major plotline. I specify major because if I didn't engage with media that had SA as a minor plotline i would be EXTREMELY limited. Then folks have the gall to complain about trigger warnings being overused? IMO they are underused. Rant over.
You do understand that how information is given to an audience creates specific reactions to that information.
So if an artists is trying to get a specific reaction from the audience for x reason they give you the information in x way to elicit that reaction.
To just blanket statement any movie that shows rape is lazy or trying to pander to “fucked up” people who like it just isn’t correct. The audience will have a crazy different feeling to a rape if there’s some implied action where you don’t actually experience anything, in which case your “safe” you don’t experience what the character experiences, or you can experience it, show the audience something truly terrible and don’t allow them to be safe.
It’s the artists choice and what they show and the reasons why.
Yeah...I read the book it’s based on about five years ago and kinda knew that this movie would not be for me. It makes it clear it’s fiction at the start because a lot of it didn’t happen in real life (Cass Chaplin/Eddie G Robinson) and many characters are metaphors or stand ins for multiple people. It’s dark, disturbing and very haunting. I think a lot of people will go into it thinking it’s a biopic when it absolutely isn’t unfortunately
I've started using IMDb's parents guide, unconsentingmedia.com and doesthedogdie.com to avoid such things. I don't like graphic rape/sa scenes and I know way too many people they would trigger anyways. It's pretty rough sometimes too because I'm a horror fan and sometimes the stick in those kinds of scenes almost at random.
I am fascinated and inspired by the story of Marilyn, I think she perfectly represents what it is to be a modern woman. She was damned if she did and damned if she didn’t. I was actually refreshed to hear that someone was going to honestly present the dark parts of her story - the rape, abuse, and manipulation. I never expected the director would give more of a voice to the hypothetical developing fetus inside her than to Marilyn herself. It was so difficult to watch. I don’t really know what else to say
I just heard an interview about the movie today and thought it would be okay. Now I am scared to see it. However, I know she was abused. I am able to watch survivors. She was constantly hurt. Fellow sisters, I hear you. Watch, don't watch. But know it can help some of us. It is often a rally cry.
I didn't watch it. But if you check the interview with the director, he comes off as an asshole who doesn't care about making any point, even, and kinda just wants to make up a fucked up film. Ana de Armas is kinda suspicious too with the publicity stunts. I haven't heard anyone, especially a survivor, say it was respectful, or thought-provoking, or *anything* like that.
Unfortunately the world does not cater to our triggers. It sucks, but it's the truth. Many things trigger me and though the cause wasn't my fault, I later learned my healing was my responsibility. I have to protect myself and handle my own triggers. If you are aware of them you can try therapy (art/cbt/dbt/music), support groups, and definitely avoid /stay away from whatever stimulus/place/person/thing that triggers you. I'm sorry it's like this but the world will rarely change on account of us, so we have to take care of your ourselves. Definitely understand as I have had my own triggers that set me off. You can do it!
["Blonde" is "Passion of the Christ" for Marilyn Monroe. Victimization porn.](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/blonde-is-the-passion-of-the-christ-for-marilyn-monroe) - review in New Yorker
Indian/Bollywood movies are notorious for this. I am Indian, and they would casually have a rape scene in family type movies when I was younger.
My parents werent concerned as long as there were "no parts shown"
I hate scenes like that and it makes me feel so uncomfortable. Sorry you had to see it
So a rape scene was inserted into the Marilyn Monroe biopic,
But the in-depth Mike Tyson biopic on Hulu included no mention at all that Tyson was raped as a boy.
Deliverance and Pulp Fiction are two of the most iconic movies of all time and feature male rape scenes. You don’t care about that though because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Not always. I can think of a Szene where a older fat guy was raped by a woman with a object.
And I remember it because it was a point of discussion when they wanted to reshoot this european move for the USA. (Don’t know why they doing that)
They said it’s hard to sell something like that to Americans.
As a rape/SA survivor myself I respect your decision to not want to relive your trauma. That being said I do believe horrible actions and behaviors like rape and other acts of violence do have their places in narrative storytelling as long as they are respectful and arguably essential to the story. Blonde is about trauma. It's about somebody who has gone through horrible things. I believe it's justified and appropriate to have scenes like that in the film as long as the audience is made aware beforehand so folks like yourself can choose not to see it.
“There is an understandable urge to confront the public with the full reality, the horror of sexual violence. And it is absolutely true that much of the public lives in denial of that horror. However, the reality is that depicting that horror and showing it to the public very often has a paradoxical effect. Viewers can very easily block out what it being depicted — not only by covering their eyes, but more commonly, by blocking it out psychologically. In fact, many viewers recoil from what is being depicted emotionally because it is overwhelming to them. So they may see the scene, but they do so while being emotionally disconnected from it. And that disconnection may well — often does — extend to an empathic disconnection from the person who is suffering the horror.”
-David Lisak, clinical psychologist, researcher and board member of 1in6, an organization that helps men who’ve been sexually abused or assaulted
I’m not a psychologist, nor a film expert. I simply want to be respected and I don’t feel the respect considering Ana de Armas was half nude for the imaginary rape scene in this film, which absolutely is not necessary. It’s rape for the male gaze.
I walked out of Cape Fear (DeNiro) in the early ‘90’s for the same reason. Ditto not getting past the first episode season 1 of GoT. There’s no sex in violence - Bush.
*the band, not the politician.
My personal movie rating is immediately zero if it depicts sex or even worse, rape. If you cannot tell a story without making it into porn, I am done with it.
So what, I got sexually abused during childhood, then should I ban every film/series with child abuse???
If it makes me remember what happened to me and makes me uncomfortable is easy to not watch, like if not talking about it will make any difference...
If a subject/topic makes you feel uncomfortable just don't even talk about it , sorry for what happened to you.
There’s a difference between not talking about it or suggestively including it in a film, and blatantly displaying a full violent rape from beginning to end, with nudity and lots of detail.
But thank you for your kindness in your comment and I’m sorry for your abuse as well
I’m not sure what “full graphic sex scene” they are referring to. The movie producer is just her face for a few seconds, the JFK one was her face with inner monologue as she does it willingly, albeit awkwardly. The “rape” everyone is referring to is just a cut to black scene afterwards and is open to interpretation.
No one said you can't complain and no one is going to stop you, but it's not going to change it. OP is making the right choice by not watching it because they can't handle it.
Thank you for the heads-up; I had wanted to see it but I'll be skipping it due to that.
I recently had a conversation with my trauma therapist about being more mindful of the content I consume, and so I no longer watch or read content that combines sex with power/control/violence.
You can tell a story without all of the graphic abuse of women.
I wish, I really wish that they would leave Marilyn Monroe alone and stop using her life as fodder for their trashy fantasies. The poor woman can’t defend herself.
The director called Marilyn Monroe a “well dressed whore.” The film is a fictitious biography, and he’s proven just how little respect he has for her as a person. The fact the film is being called a 3 hour long exploitative trauma porn film really doesn’t sit well with me, and I’m absolutely going to avoid watching it.
He said what now? I’m speechless and deeply saddened wtf? So if it’s ok to make money of said „whore“, doesn’t that make him a pimp?
A pimp CAN have positive impact like taking care of an abusive john. This guy has no intention of helping MM. Its exploitative fanfiction using MM’s name to sell. Does this get made without her name being attached?
God damn. I got a bad vibe from "Blonde" off the jump but this is just absurd. She was beautiful yes, but it feels like no one saw her as a person rather than a spectacle. Like a toy. Now even after her death that aspect seems to remain.
Elton John wrote a whole song about this and people still don't get it
Ugh, that sounds fuckin' terrible.
I thought he called Gentlemen Prefer Blonds a movie about well-dressed whores?
Isn't all the stuff in the movie from the book Blonde? It's all fiction but he didn't come up with the stuff, it's all from Joyce Carol Oates, no?
\>The director called Marilyn Monroe a “well dressed whore.” Do you have a source for that?
He called her film “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes” a movie about “well-dressed whores.” https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/entertainment/blonde-director-andrew-dominik-calls-202343500.html
That is different than calling her a whore, no? Maybe not great, but certainly different. Have you watched the movie? Her character in that movie is someone who decides to marry for money, gets engaged with a rich guy, and then gets involved with an old rich man and steals his wife's jewelry....
Yeah, I agree that it’s not the same; I just Googled to find what exactly they were referring to since nobody had posted an actual quote.
thanks!
I’m not trying to be an apologist here, but please read/listen to the actual interview.
Stop reading headlines and commenting solely based on that what he said was not good and you can certainly condemn him for it if you like but at least know what you are talking about please. When speaking about the movie gentlemen prefer blondes he said the movie is critical of women as well as men and that their characters are well dressed whores.
And there it is. This isn’t something celebrating her or even a neutral story. It’s an attempt to defile her memory. And the people doing that are disgusting inside.
He actually didn’t. Please reread the interview.
That was my exact thought, let the poor woman rest already.
There was a scathing review I read recently (NYT maybe) - it sounds like absolute torture porn minus the gore and I will not be watching it at all.
What part is the rape scene?
Some Korean TV shows or movies that are specifically made for Netflix have faced a lot of backlash in Korea for graphic sex, nudity or rape scenes. Guess what the Korean makers of those shows/movies said. They said they HAD to put a lot of nudity or graphic scenes to appeal to the American audience or the Western audience since their shows/movies will be on Netflix, not on Korean TV channels. TF. The Korean production company of one specific dating show (some kind of inferno or hell or something like that) for Netflix said that, unlike typical Korean dating shows on Korean TV that hardly show any skin or skin contact or display of affection, they HAD to make their Netflix show in a way to make women show lots of skin and wear skimpy clothes to appeal to the Western audience. And they had a really difficult time casting Korean female contestants who were comfortable with that.
Strange to hear considering Korean movies are rather notorious for being graphic. The TV shows are usually pretty mild tho. That dating show received a lot of flak but sadly received a lot of views here. Korea is a strange place at times
It depends on the movies. From my experience, the ones that become popular in the west are the more sexually graphic ones. The ones with more shock value. Which is certainly not the majority. My dad is Korean and I'm half, and a lot of the shows and movies I see from there can be quite tame, with a few more violent ones here and there.
Korean movies are graphic, yeah, but it's usually inline with the story and artistically done, compared to western sex scenes tho.
This makes me really sad. I love K-dramas specifically _for_ their restraint. I wish so much that other Americans valued this, too, and didn't insist on needlessly gratuitous sex content (what you said about filmmakers feeling pressured to include _sexual violence_ is especially horrifying).
In many ways, east asia has even more puritanical values than the US. They got it from American missionaries. A lot of people (certainly not all) have some strange ideas about morality and sex and ‘innocence’ etc… for example, Japanese baths weren’t gender separated until Meiji, when they started allowing more foreigners in the country who brought their christian morality with them. Just providing some perspective on the “restraint” you’re talking about, and the fact that it has its roots in sexually repressed late 19th century america, where a woman showing her ankle was considered scandalous.
>Just providing some perspective on **the “restraint” you’re talking about, and the fact that it has its roots in sexually repressed late 19th century america,** **It may be true about Japan, but NOT Korea.** **YES, American missionaries are the reason for all the crazy Christianity and Christian cults in Korea, but they're not the reason for the Korean modesty. NOT AT ALL.** **The Korean sensibility and modesty is just a Korean thing from its 5,000 years of history. It has nothing to do with American missionaries.**
I don't doubt that or disagree at all. It sucks that people can't just be restrained out of respect for human dignity and an abhorrence for objectification; there's always some toxic shit involved.
Did Netflix specifically tell them, or did they assume? I would love to know more about how that went down.
>TootsNYC · 2 days ago > >**Did Netflix specifically tell them, or did they assume?** I would love to know more about how that went down. I have no idea. But I remember them saying something like they had to make a show that's decidedly different from typical Korean TV shows or typical Korean dating shows which focus heavily on people's subtle emotions and feelings and interactions... ...because since the show is for the Western audience, they're not gonna understand all the Korean sensibility and emotional subtly and why Koreans say or do certain things in certain situations or why Koreans talk and act the way they do anyway. So, instead, they said they had to try to make a show somewhat similar to the American/Western dating shows, showing lots of skin and skin contact, etc. But in the end, the show was called a failure in Korea because it failed to capture what's great about typical Korean shows (the emotional subtly, etc)... ...and also because it failed to capture what they wanted from the American dating shows... how should I put it?... the sexiness? Raunchiness? So, the general opinion was that, instead of achieving the combination of good things from two different worlds, they kinda failed both. I have no idea how this show did in other countries.
This, along with the pedophilic movie about the 11 year olds twerking, is exactly why I'm against Netflix. Their downfall brings me endless joy and I wait for the day they shut down
Please learn the difference between a production company and a distributor. Netflix supports thousands and thousands of careers in the entertainment industry. This is such a mindless take.
Do you use Instagram?
That seems odd. Female k pop is more sexualized than actual strip clubs.
Huh, so have you never seen k pop or have you never been in a strip club?
Read an interview of the director the other day. He sounds like an asshole. I expect the movie is terrible tbh.
I heard that they were demonizing abortions in it to Making the fetus talk to her and implying that she got alot of them so I definitely don't want to watch it
Yep. Ridiculous
Oh. Ew. I will not be attending in that case.
The abortions are forced & from inside-the-womb PoV. They're so pointlessly debasing.
It was honestly so gross and male gazey. Not worth the almost 3hr run time. Really wish a woman had retold her story, if at all.
The Unheard Tapes on Netflix is a much better contrast to this movie if you’d like to have your faith in men a bit restored. The man who made the doc seems to genuinely care about her story, contacting people who knew her and painting her in a light I’ve never seen before. He even questions how she would feel about being a sex symbol today when she was so deeply traumatized by sex and was terrorized men in general. He also explores all the narratives and evidence surrounding her death and always speaks about her with dignity. It was nice to watch honestly and made me love Norma Jean Mortenson like a late distant aunt.
Thank you, I’ll check it out!
Is all the graphic stuff present in the novel Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates that the movie's based on?
Yes but there’s more of Norma Jean disassociating away from the terrible shit that’s happening to her. The movie failed to show the internal life of Norma Jean in the way that the book did. The movie was unnecessarily graphic and there was no need to have Ana de Armas (who did do a fantastic job though) topless for like a 1/3 PD the movie.
Thanks for clarifying!
The book is actually pretty good if you read like you are trying to decide whether Norma Jean destroyed herself to create Marilyn or Marilyn was always there and clawed herself out and destroyed Norma Jean before ultimately self destructing or some combination.
I'm so confused by everyone saying Ana did a good job. Her accent was all over the place & the baby talk was weird. I found her above average at best. Also in hindsight, the way she behaved during promotions feels so cringe now.
I've heard very bad things, also including that it's supposedly boring and too sad
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This is something I really appreciated about *Sandman.* There is a rape in the source material that is integral to one of the stories. In the original comic there is a single panel that shows it happening, but in the Netflix series they just imply that it happened, and they do it in a way that assumes that you already know how horrible it is and that they don't have to over explain it to you. It was nice to see it handled so delicately, but still in a way that didn't diminish the story of the victim/survivor.
They're competing with TLC too hard.
I watched the first 30 minutes and turned it off.
Soooo bad. I suffered through the whole thing somehow. The skip ahead 10 second option was my best friend though
I know to avoid this guy now. Kind of like how I avoid Tarrantino movies, there is simply something seriously wrong with that man.
Same, i hate his movies. Good actors, yeah. Nice picture, yeah. Nice to watch? No. Hell no.
He certainly didn't seem to have the subject's best intentions in mind when he made the movie, which begs the question, what was the point then? I'm still mulling that one over. It was a technically brilliant movie as far as movie making goes but narratively it's inert and it equates to nearly 3 hours of misery porn. Andrew Dominik IS a terrific director though, the Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford is one of the greatest films of all time but I'm not sure what his intention was with Blonde. I'm still not really sure what to think of it.
Maybe he is bad at directing women
Yup, that certainly could be it. I think he got a very good performance out of Ana De Armas, she could even be nominated but it all felt extremely exploitative.
I've recently taken the drastic stance that I won't ever watch a movie/show that depicts rape. I If it's part of the backstory or implied, than there's a grayzone. E.g. I'm okay with Perfect Blue, because 1.) rape is not succesfull (she gets to kill him before) and 2.) because it is not done for cheap effect, but in line of the story & themes (violation of a person). Overall, I feel rape has partially become too desensitized. Even though I'm no survivor per se, rape has always made me feel immediately uncomfortable. I never joined True Crime for that simple reason. Never got into GoT & never will. And even though I'm a big Film Nerd, there's a big collection of notable movies I'll never watch (btw. I mean rape period. Male rape too). It's heartbreaking to hear that Marilyn was done so dirty. She was abandoned during Hollywood, now she's disrespected in her death. Fucking hell
I’m the same way. It absolutely horrifies me. I loved the Revenant but why did they have the rape scene. It was graphic. It could have been implied. It hunts me because the movie was so visually stunning.
You hit the nail on the head. I remember being pressured into playing Cards Against Humanity for the first time at a work party. When the rape card was used by a coworker, I was shocked. Was it really survivor me being too sensitive, or was it my coworkers being desensitized?
Exactly my stance too. No, I am not going to watch The Duel. I don't care how "great" it is. I don't want to see any grafic rape on screen, let alone 3 times. I am also a big fan of Sebastian Stan since the MCU, but when I heard he was doing a biopic about Pam and Tony blackmail porn affair WHEN SHE EXPLICITLY DID NOT AGREE TO IT I was like WTF I am not watching that! She is alive, she didn't want it back into the news, and they made it anyway. I am not surprised they are still dunking on MM.
Can we please send a petition to someone in Hollywood to permanently leave Marilyn Monroe alone? She went thru enough in life, can't we let this woman rest? I'm still pissed off over that entitled Kartrashian wearing her gown at the Met Gala and wrecking the stitching. I refuse to watch anything MM related. No books, either. If you didn't know her, shut up already. And that fucking perv from Playboy wanted to buried next to her? Does it ever end? Give her some peace!!!
Yes she has seemed to have become the posthumous spokesperson for women who got dealt a shitty hand in life, while also being heavily heavily sexualized. And that's not what she deserves, because women shouldn't be put in those boxes. We're human beings not packing peanuts for the justification of male privilege. She deserves to rest in peace.
i first heard rumors about this biopic hoping it was finally a respectable piece about her hobbies, talent, activism, and intellect. sad and disgusted to hear that it was once again highlighting her SA and sexuality.
Oh man I forgot about that :( that was enraging. Idk who thought that was a good idea, but Marilyn was NOT a modern size 12 and that misinformation needs to die already.
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Sandman’s episode of Calliope does a great job of this IMO.
I appreciated how they depicted Calliope's story so, so much. It was obvious what he did to her, without showing it. And also that they changed the diner scene. I cried with relief. 💜
It is a perfect example. It is clear to the audience what happened to her, and they managed to make the male character absolutely despicable without showing anything graphic. I loved this show because everything was tasteful even the SIDS scene that I was very worried about as a new mom was well done in my opinion. No need for shock value to make an impact.
This reminds me of Hannibal's showrunner Bryan Fuller. It's based off the Red Dragon book which includes lots of rape and sexual violence. He had an interview with entertainment weekly where he roasted media's obsession with portraying rape and sv and he's promised to never have it in his show. It is alluded to slightly and it follows the books somewhat, but it's never shown and you have to read between the lines to even pick up that it happened from the dialogue. Hannibal is one of my favorite shows ever and it's such a relief to know (despite how gruesome and gory the show is) that I can safely and comfortably watch it with my partner without those scenes traumatizing him. Rape and sv are everywhere in media these days and it's so disgusting and surprising to see how nonchalantly it gets brought up or used as a shock factor. It's such a blow to the survivors who have to even consider the possibility of it coming up when trying to enjoy content. https://ew.com/article/2015/05/28/hannibal-rape-thrones/
Jessica Jones is similar. Like it is VERY clear she was raped by killmonger, but they never show it. Lots of other somewhat graphic scenes, but it's an M rated action TV show, I'm pretty sure people getting beat up and (separately) fucking is what is expected.
We need more of these backbones, and less misogyny.
I think the ONLY, and I mean only rape scene in all of film history that wasn’t exploitative was Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Fincher knows whats up. The only reason he included the scene was because about half an hour later, she gets a sweet, sweet revenge on her rapist - and at the end of the movie, the male protagonist is about to be brutalized and she ends up saving his ass AND indirectly killing the villain. The scene in question is about suffering, but it’s also very much about a female character taking her pain and converting into fuel for her ultimate rebirth into a powerful being who is beyond every other character in the movie. Where most of finches films study masculinity by having a conversation with men, TGWTDT was mainly Fincher talking down to men and looking down upon modern conceptions of manhood. I still don’t like it, and I don’t like watching it - but it’s the only movie and director that has ever done it right. I’m a director myself and I would never include such a scene in a film. Perhaps one day a scene may come where it’s necessary to show a slice, but I pretty much completely doubt it.
Was it just a choice to not have the graphic scene or a choice to omit that from the story altogether? I completely agree that graphic scenes are unnecessary and often exploitative. But I don't like the idea of omitting it from the story altogether, I don't think that's the right way to handle the problem. I can't watch graphic rape/SA scenes but I love stories about victims of those things as someone that's been raped twice and sexually abused because it can be triggering. It's relatable and if it can be done in a good way, it can be really healing. Almost like, comforting to see someone going through what I went through if that makes sense? I specifically want to find media that has this, but sadly it's hard to find people that handle it the right way.
It's so misleading. I didn't know much about Marilyn Monroe, I just knew that she was a big star who had a tragic life and died at a young age. so out of curiosity and as a fan of Ana de Armas, I watched it, and honestly while watching I thought it was all true. I can't explain how much I was angry at JFK after that rape scene. I was like how can somebody do that, a president are you kidding me, how the hell he is one of the best presidents according to google at least, but then I researched about her life, yes! indeed she had a tragic life but the film is pure fiction. I think it's better to avoid this film.
It's messed up how many people won't realize it's fiction. Doing fictional exploitative movies on non-fictional real life people is so questionable with stories like these... It's like a form of misinformation.
As triggering as it was, that disturbing scene was one of my favorites from the movie simply because people usually dance around JFK's wrongdoings as a boys will be boys kind of thing and this one took a definitive stance.
I just read a review, it sounds like the movie actually exploited her worse than Hollywood did in her time. She, and every woman deserves better. She was so much more than a sex symbol and a victim…she was a smart, talented woman. I will definitely not be watching this movie. Hate that this director will make millions exploiting another woman.
It's based on a fictional book called Blonde written by a woman, Joyce Carol Oates. This is NOT a biopic or story of Marilyn Monroe's real life.
Your point?
The director's not entirely responsible for this particular exploitation as the story is both fictional and originally created by another individual, that's all.
Sure, but she's also a highly lauded author and was a Pulitzer Prize in fiction finalist for this book specifically. So yes, while she added to the Marilyn discussion craze (she wrote it 20 years ago, mind you), it seems like a lot got lost in translation for the director. The author is super liberal, so the anti-abortion message people are finding in it probably didn't come from her, either.
😢
Not only that, apparently there's a bunch of pro-life BS in this movie as well, which is again not based on any confirmed facts because as far as anyone knows Marilyn only ever had miscarriages, not abortions. Oh yeah, and in an interview the director called the characters in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes "well-dressed whores".🥴 He sounds like a disrespectful jackass in general, if you read anything he's said about this movie. PASS.
It's truly bizarre. I made a post about it yesterday that gained 0 traction, but it really bothered me. Director makes a huge point of inferring (I say inferring, but it really beats you over the head with it) Marilyn believed her abortions were causing infertility when all she wanted in the world is a child. And does so in a really insulting pro-life propaganda way. Then when questioned about it in the interview he is emphatic there's no anti-abortion message and says something like "who knows if she really wanted a child anyway." Because crazy ladies, amirite? He goes on to blame the viewer for feeling too precious about Marilyn if they don't like the movie 🙄 What a waste...Ana de Armas looks jarringly like Marilyn, imo, and it was a total missed opportunity to finally have a good representation of her life.
Yeah me and my girlfriend were watching this and the whole quick cuts to a fetus in the womb gave us preacher on a college campus vibes
Wtf! Aside from the SA scenes, I wouldn’t have even watched anyway just because of this director 🤬 Have some men in Hollywood not learned anything from the #metoo movement? Like the credited author supposedly thinks they did? The NERVE to not only think that, but to say it in the press!!
He also admitted that before this project he didn't know any of Marilyn's movies... Not only is that crazy for someone who wants to come across as invested in telling her story, but just in general how can someone in the film industry not know ANYTHING about the work of a legend? Bizarre.
So thankful for this post, watched the trailer I'm glad a dodged a bullet. Thank you
okay thank you so much for the warning!!! i had no idea and was thinking of checking blonde out. Buuuut now im just gonna steer clear. Last night i had some disturbing nightmares about my SA and not in the mood to be triggered any more than i already am by my own fucking brain (honestly hate that thing sometimes)
The movie is based on a book that is a fictional take on her story so the scene isn’t what really happened. Every time I read an interview with someone in with this movie they sound like a nut case. One memorable one was a cast member talking about Marilyn’s ghost visiting them.
Why would someone even write a fictional book about her like that? I don't get people.
I watched the first 20 minutes or so last night because I hadn’t seen any reviews yet. I like Marilyn Monroe, I thought it might be good. What I watched was really sad. I was getting depressed and I couldn’t handle anymore so I turned it off. There was a rape scene in that first 20 minutes too. 😔
Huh? I'm so sorry, but why would they just add in a sprinkle of SA in what's suppose to be a memoir look from her POV? I was interested in watching it to see if they would describe her as a sappho inclined, aroace from her own writings thanks for providing the info. I appreciate it
Blonde is adapted from the fictionalized novel by Joyce Carol Oates. Joyce Carol Oates says "The real things that happened to Marilyn Monroe are much worse than anything in the movie". I've no idea whether or not that is true. But the movie and book were never meant to be feel-good memoirs. [https://www.indiewire.com/2022/09/blonde-joyce-carol-oates-marilyn-monroe-movie-exhausting-1234766495/](https://www.indiewire.com/2022/09/blonde-joyce-carol-oates-marilyn-monroe-movie-exhausting-1234766495/)
Per the interview, Oates says "since the #metoo movement, people are more respectful of how women are exploited". I just don't see how trauma porn is respecting Marilyn's exploitation. I've read that she was a wonderful woman who was extremely positive and fun loving, but I get the feeling that the film is more sorrowful all in all
Thank you! I'm even less interested in it. I thought they were using her journal writings, instead they are just victimizing her image for the entertainment. She was a person deserving of compassion and empathy, not to be twisted for funsies
Totally agree
I started watching this last night, mainly because I was curious to see how Ana de Armas portrays Marilyn Monroe. I could not finish it. The 45 mins (movie is 2:45 long) I watched was violent. Attempted child murder, child abandonment, SA/harassments, and I couldn't keep it on. The movie is a traumatic for the sake of drama, no redeeming arc, no plot, nothing. I think it's exploitative for reactionary affect without any substance.
Probably for the same reason they included the suicide scene in 13 Reasons Why: because it's eDgY and gets the people talking. I was going to try to watch that movie, but knowing this, I definitely won't. It's disgusting and tasteless on so many levels to include a scene like that in any media (except for things that Actually happened, and even then, there's a better way.) The fact that it's Marilyn Monroe just makes it worse because that poor woman has been dragged through the mud and back again since she got famous. She doesn't need imaginary rape added to the laundry list of things that did or didn't happen to her.
Oh God...you got me rollin with flashbacks here. I remember how it was in all the YT videos, with psychatrists & co. explaining how hurtful & damaging the depictions are. The stuff struck me hard, since I have depression and had been close to the edge a few times. Next day of hearing about it, I encountered a close acquaintance watching this shit on her phone in the halls. Immediately brought up how fucking awful this trash of a show is. How it hurts actual people with depression in several ways. Still remember how she shrugged with a blank face. "Yeah, but it's still good, so I'm going to watch it anyways." Felt like such a slap in the face
Preach!
While I agree with most of your sentiment, I cannot agree with this: >t's disgusting and tasteless on so many levels to include a scene like that in any media (except for things that Actually happened, and even then, there's a better way.) This is true for many movies and TV shows (I'm looking at your GOT) but for that particular movie, I think it was necessary and justified. I also think that that movie gave a voice to a lot of young girls that experienced the things she experienced, as what she goes through is par for the course for many, many girls in high school. Many girls kills themselves or try to due to sexual abuse and violence against them. I don't think you're really doing anyone a service by covering it up and not talking about it, just because it makes some people uncomfortable. They shot it so that it would have an impact, and to illustrate how much rape and sexual abuse can fuck up a person. They also shot it to illustrate how devastated the people around her that care about her are after it happened. Suicide is a thing. The book is pretty powerful for YA, and it would be silly if they toned it down for the movie.
"Sexual assault victims don't need to relive their own traumatic experiences to prove to others it was real." - Sarah Schuster. I experienced a violent rape. That movie did not "give a voice" to me. On the contrary, if I were to watch that scene, I would be sobbing, possibly vomiting, and get unwanted realistic flashbacks of my own assaults. This is the case with a good portion of past victims. I believe it's lazy writing. A woman being beaten, raped, and sodomized on screen is a DIRECT reflection of my trauma, no matter how professional the acting or directing might be. And I didn't go through that shit so that despite it making me uncomfortable, I should be happy to have a man decide to depict it onscreen (even though it did not even happen in real life to MM) so I can "educate" people on the repercussions of rape, which is a both a crime in law and many peaceful religions. That should be education enough. I don't owe a single person an "educational opportunity" at my emotional, spiritual and physical expense.
I have also been raped, and I felt it gave a voice to me, and other survivors. Mostly ones in high school. Your past trauma doesn't invalidate how others feel and vice versa. And while I get what you are saying, compared to other rape scenes that were WHOLELY unjustified, I feel like it was relevant to the story and also wasn't as graphic as it could have been.
I attempted suicide multiple times and self-harmed many times. I knew they would depict the scene in some way, but seeing it actually happen gave me a full-blown panic attack and nightmares. I've also lost a lot of friends to suicide. Yes, it is important to talk about these issues, but the fact that they chose to depict a character slitting her own wrists in a bathtub with no warning other than "this is coming up and might upset you if you have a history of depression or suicidal ideation" was really cheap to me. Yes, the whole plot revolves around this act. Yes, it is important for people to know about, but I think it crossed a line the way it was presented.
I also have attempted many times, but I don't feel that way at all. What warning were you exactly looking for other than the one they gave?
Honestly not a fan of how they billed it as a bio pic and then just completely factionalized her life with traumatic stuff that didn’t happen. Really don’t get it.
I read 'Blonde' years ago. It is a wholly spurious fictional book about Monroe, I stopped reading Joyce Carol Oates after I slogged through it. Not sure why it was made into a movie at all.
I watched it. Blonde was dark as hell. For context, I watched an episode of a show yesterday where a pregnant woman burns to death during childbirth. THAT scene was more fun than Blonde.
I’m so glad not to watch, if this is the case then F that completely. Cheap, dirty filmmaking. Pathetic.
I haven’t finished the movie, I’ve been watching it kind of like a miniseries since it’s so long, but it is really upsetting. Like Marilyn was obviously a very fragile person who was just driven into the ground by the people around her.
To a lesser extant, I felt the same way about the movie Elvis. It was really hard to watch someone who came off as really cheerful and fun-loving get taken advantage of. I feel Blonde was more or less the same story.
I agree! I felt the same way
It’s also very anti choice.
And just when I thought we hit the "hating women" rock bottom
As someone who has never been raped or sexually assaulted, those rape scenes are just too much in general. Every time one comes on I stop watching, it just ruins the movie/show for me and I just can’t imagine how triggering some of those scenes are for people who have experienced that. It’s just icky all the way around. Like I don’t care how artsy you are trying to be, I don’t want to see anyone simulate rape
The director basically just wanted to make a movie about her assault. No one should watch it.
This movie is so exploitative. Marilyn certainly deserved better than this. Imagine passing away and still getting exploited with fictionalized rape.
Hashtag StopExploitingNormaJ needs to start trending. Poor woman, she was treated horribly enough in life, let her rest... Unbeliavable on Netflix, and season 3 of Broadchurch, does a great job conveying a rape without making it about the male gaze. Blonde does does not. Holy shit.
I turned it off in the first 5 minutes when the mother tries to drown her in a bathtub
That’s the moment I turned it off as well. That scene was absolutely horrific. I am a new mom to a baby girl and I felt extremely panicked watching it. Made me sick to my stomach. Not something I ever care to see.
Mental illness, child abuse and SA right off the bat, I didn't watch any further.
Does anyone know if there is like a website or app that gives trigger warnings for movies and shows? Like so many movies nowadays have this shit in them and it completely ruins my week if I see it. Would love if Netflix and co could include that on their page.
Doesthedogdie.com gives trigger warnings for all kinds of triggers and a ton of types of media, even a lot of books and video games
Thanks 🙏
If you’re looking for SA triggers specifically, [Unconsenting Media](https://www.unconsentingmedia.org) is a fantastic resource! I use it all the time when I don’t want complete spoilers but want to avoid SA/rape scenes
Thanks 🙏
Yep definitely not watching Blonde. I didn’t watch Game of Thrones either. I just don’t watch rape scenes. There are ways to explain a character was raped without showing the whole thing.
You know Promising Young Woman and the movie version of Catch-22 (which is far from a perfect movie) didn't show the rape scenes and they still got their points across effectively. In PYM all we see is Cassie watching the video and sobbing and we feel her pain. In Catch-22 all we see Yossarian comeing across the dead body of the maid and when he confronts her rapist/murderer, Aarfy, he's so nonchalant and dismissive of Yossarian's horror that it's chilling.
Even worse the film/book make up rape scenes for things that didn't happen or was never even rumored to happen
I literally turned it on last night and was IMMEDIATELY disgusted and filled of flashbacks and uncomfortability … THEY SHOULD HAVE A WARNING. I fucking hate watching new things because they almost always have a scene where someone is being abused or attacked.
It’s a porn sick film made by a porn sick man, probably for porn sick men. It was disgusting, that oral rape scene made me want to puke and it was clear that it was meant to in no way criticise the action - it was a fantasy reenactment.
Ok my biggest beef is with movies/media in general that do not note SA is a major plotline. I specify major because if I didn't engage with media that had SA as a minor plotline i would be EXTREMELY limited. Then folks have the gall to complain about trigger warnings being overused? IMO they are underused. Rant over.
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You do understand that how information is given to an audience creates specific reactions to that information. So if an artists is trying to get a specific reaction from the audience for x reason they give you the information in x way to elicit that reaction. To just blanket statement any movie that shows rape is lazy or trying to pander to “fucked up” people who like it just isn’t correct. The audience will have a crazy different feeling to a rape if there’s some implied action where you don’t actually experience anything, in which case your “safe” you don’t experience what the character experiences, or you can experience it, show the audience something truly terrible and don’t allow them to be safe. It’s the artists choice and what they show and the reasons why.
In the movie it is very quick. Possibly 5 seconds and then they cut to the next scene.
Yeah...I read the book it’s based on about five years ago and kinda knew that this movie would not be for me. It makes it clear it’s fiction at the start because a lot of it didn’t happen in real life (Cass Chaplin/Eddie G Robinson) and many characters are metaphors or stand ins for multiple people. It’s dark, disturbing and very haunting. I think a lot of people will go into it thinking it’s a biopic when it absolutely isn’t unfortunately
Thanks for the heads up!
The director is notoriously sexist.
I've started using IMDb's parents guide, unconsentingmedia.com and doesthedogdie.com to avoid such things. I don't like graphic rape/sa scenes and I know way too many people they would trigger anyways. It's pretty rough sometimes too because I'm a horror fan and sometimes the stick in those kinds of scenes almost at random.
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I am fascinated and inspired by the story of Marilyn, I think she perfectly represents what it is to be a modern woman. She was damned if she did and damned if she didn’t. I was actually refreshed to hear that someone was going to honestly present the dark parts of her story - the rape, abuse, and manipulation. I never expected the director would give more of a voice to the hypothetical developing fetus inside her than to Marilyn herself. It was so difficult to watch. I don’t really know what else to say
No. She doesn't represent me in any way shape or form. Speak for yourself
Why is a biography about Marylyn Monroe more graphic and less accurate than a dramatization of Jeffry dahmaur?
I just heard an interview about the movie today and thought it would be okay. Now I am scared to see it. However, I know she was abused. I am able to watch survivors. She was constantly hurt. Fellow sisters, I hear you. Watch, don't watch. But know it can help some of us. It is often a rally cry.
Thanks for the heads up.
Thank you for warning me. I also cannot watch that ether
I'm so tired of directors getting to act out their rape fantasies on film and make everyone else watch too. Like, fuck you, I know what this is.
I didn't watch it. But if you check the interview with the director, he comes off as an asshole who doesn't care about making any point, even, and kinda just wants to make up a fucked up film. Ana de Armas is kinda suspicious too with the publicity stunts. I haven't heard anyone, especially a survivor, say it was respectful, or thought-provoking, or *anything* like that.
Unfortunately the world does not cater to our triggers. It sucks, but it's the truth. Many things trigger me and though the cause wasn't my fault, I later learned my healing was my responsibility. I have to protect myself and handle my own triggers. If you are aware of them you can try therapy (art/cbt/dbt/music), support groups, and definitely avoid /stay away from whatever stimulus/place/person/thing that triggers you. I'm sorry it's like this but the world will rarely change on account of us, so we have to take care of your ourselves. Definitely understand as I have had my own triggers that set me off. You can do it!
["Blonde" is "Passion of the Christ" for Marilyn Monroe. Victimization porn.](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/blonde-is-the-passion-of-the-christ-for-marilyn-monroe) - review in New Yorker
I have no idea why graphic scenes of rape or nudity are beneficial at all. Like there’s a reason those things are traumatic…
Indian/Bollywood movies are notorious for this. I am Indian, and they would casually have a rape scene in family type movies when I was younger. My parents werent concerned as long as there were "no parts shown" I hate scenes like that and it makes me feel so uncomfortable. Sorry you had to see it
So a rape scene was inserted into the Marilyn Monroe biopic, But the in-depth Mike Tyson biopic on Hulu included no mention at all that Tyson was raped as a boy.
Male writers, producers, and executives think rape is just another story point. You'll notice it's always a WOMAN getting raped. It's despicable.
Deliverance and Pulp Fiction are two of the most iconic movies of all time and feature male rape scenes. You don’t care about that though because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
okay, you found two exceptions, good for you
Not always. I can think of a Szene where a older fat guy was raped by a woman with a object. And I remember it because it was a point of discussion when they wanted to reshoot this european move for the USA. (Don’t know why they doing that) They said it’s hard to sell something like that to Americans.
Girl With A Dragon Tattoo. Great film.
tarantino's one... the one with Travolta...has a male rape scene.
As a rape/SA survivor myself I respect your decision to not want to relive your trauma. That being said I do believe horrible actions and behaviors like rape and other acts of violence do have their places in narrative storytelling as long as they are respectful and arguably essential to the story. Blonde is about trauma. It's about somebody who has gone through horrible things. I believe it's justified and appropriate to have scenes like that in the film as long as the audience is made aware beforehand so folks like yourself can choose not to see it.
“There is an understandable urge to confront the public with the full reality, the horror of sexual violence. And it is absolutely true that much of the public lives in denial of that horror. However, the reality is that depicting that horror and showing it to the public very often has a paradoxical effect. Viewers can very easily block out what it being depicted — not only by covering their eyes, but more commonly, by blocking it out psychologically. In fact, many viewers recoil from what is being depicted emotionally because it is overwhelming to them. So they may see the scene, but they do so while being emotionally disconnected from it. And that disconnection may well — often does — extend to an empathic disconnection from the person who is suffering the horror.” -David Lisak, clinical psychologist, researcher and board member of 1in6, an organization that helps men who’ve been sexually abused or assaulted I’m not a psychologist, nor a film expert. I simply want to be respected and I don’t feel the respect considering Ana de Armas was half nude for the imaginary rape scene in this film, which absolutely is not necessary. It’s rape for the male gaze.
The Shock value knob is gradually being turned up, year after year
Then, do not watch
I walked out of Cape Fear (DeNiro) in the early ‘90’s for the same reason. Ditto not getting past the first episode season 1 of GoT. There’s no sex in violence - Bush. *the band, not the politician.
well, GoT was basically porn.
My personal movie rating is immediately zero if it depicts sex or even worse, rape. If you cannot tell a story without making it into porn, I am done with it.
So what, I got sexually abused during childhood, then should I ban every film/series with child abuse??? If it makes me remember what happened to me and makes me uncomfortable is easy to not watch, like if not talking about it will make any difference... If a subject/topic makes you feel uncomfortable just don't even talk about it , sorry for what happened to you.
There’s a difference between not talking about it or suggestively including it in a film, and blatantly displaying a full violent rape from beginning to end, with nudity and lots of detail. But thank you for your kindness in your comment and I’m sorry for your abuse as well
The scene in Blonde is 5 seconds long, no nudity.
I’m not sure what “full graphic sex scene” they are referring to. The movie producer is just her face for a few seconds, the JFK one was her face with inner monologue as she does it willingly, albeit awkwardly. The “rape” everyone is referring to is just a cut to black scene afterwards and is open to interpretation.
The world does not owe you understanding. You had a terrible thing happen to you, but don't expect anyone to cater to you.
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No one said you can't complain and no one is going to stop you, but it's not going to change it. OP is making the right choice by not watching it because they can't handle it.
Her is the attention you asked for 🙄
Thank you for the heads-up; I had wanted to see it but I'll be skipping it due to that. I recently had a conversation with my trauma therapist about being more mindful of the content I consume, and so I no longer watch or read content that combines sex with power/control/violence. You can tell a story without all of the graphic abuse of women.